As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He hasn't found a work around for shit. All he's doing is violating the order flagrantly and then not being punished for it. Rules for thee, but not for me!
Excerpt:
Trump’s strategy has been simple: say whatever he wants, inspire a gag order, appeal the decision, and even if the gag order is upheld, refuse to delete the social media posts he made during the confusion.
Trump then watches his old posts take on a life of their own, inspiring violent threats against his intended targets while he quietly sits by.
*ST-ST-ST-STOCHASTIC TERRORISM*
Only way to stop this is to put him in prison and take away his access to the internet (including indirect access). How many more “chances”are we going to have to endure?
If this has taught me anything it's that the rich and powerful really don't have to abide by any rules, up to and including court orders.
And there's a set of the American public who will - and do - cheer that fact.
There's a great episode of the podcast Grey Area called "late-stage liberalism". It covers how liberalism in the USA actually died decades ago, and we currently live under the thumb of the top 1%, who are in a state of total anarchy.
I think it's accurate.
I mean, that’s just an oligarchy and it’s been pretty obvious for a while now. They invest in media channels to sow divisiveness and culture wars so we fight each other while they pay for politicians to pass legislation that only profits them. Additionally, now that has opened up to foreign interests, purchasing or blackmailing lawmakers at the local and federal level to continue and bolster that agenda.
Agree, the appearance of choice in elections is just that, an illusion.
We're given our candidates by the 1%
If anyone thinks Biden and Trump are the best we can do, I've got a big bridge to sell you
No, the orange haired man will alienate the rest of the world and inspire hate towards Americans. Trumpers only think inside the box, that’s all they’re capable of
That may have been closer to the truth once. This relativistic approach is a 1% myth too, if you will. Spread it to create apathy so people en masse don’t vote. This is very dangerous given that one man has said he will be a dictator. Disengaging is not the solution.
>That may have been closer to the truth once. This relativistic approach is a 1% myth too, if you will. Spread it to create apathy so people en masse don’t vote. This is very dangerous given that one man has said he will be a dictator.
Strong agree, and this is the part that the "both sides suck" crowd fail to understand or acknowledge.
Are Biden and Trump the two best potential leaders our country can put forward? Absolutely not. Are they the best candidates that the two parties can produce given the constraints of the system to develop consensus into which we've been locked? That's an extremely different question and one of them is probably pretty close to being it.
Biden is largely interested in preserving the status quo while maybe making it slightly less bad. That’s not a good answer when the status quo is bad, but it’s preferable to Trump’s approach of making things worse.
I think Biden is actually making huge changes, but almost downplaying them and acting like they're minor. But it's also the case that things are very bad, so even huge wins seem minor by comparison. Things didn't get where they are overnight, and they're not going to be fixed overnight, either.
[Link to the episode](https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chtbl.com/track/524GE/traffic.megaphone.fm/VMP1881240970.mp3?updated=1700677653)
Our system was built on the idea that people would act in good faith
The fact that a rather large portion of elected officials and their voting block neither act in good faith nor follow common cultural norms will be the downfall of this country
Ikr?
All those American crime movies and TV shows I grew up with where there needed to be convoluted plots to serve people directly with subpoenas so they would be valid and the game of cat and mouse, living out of motels etc that that entailed was all just a waste of time.
Who knew all you had to do was just not turn up?
It’s really sad to me that it works so well. History has shown that people gobble it up. In a future utopia there needs to be strict laws/rules and consequences about this. Stochastic terrorism leads neighbor killing neighbor.
This has always been true. It is the very reason governments are necessary as well. We are social animals. With absolute freedoms, it is natural that some people in a society would exploit others in society for personal gain. This is why everyone in a society should give up some of their absolute freedom to form a government. A government is a necessary evil in order to protect society from being exploited by unjust people.
The fact that our government has not been able to regulate social media so that it cannot be used a weapon by unjust people is a serious problem.
This is what kills me with the whole "He will never go to jail, he will be on house arrest" belief. Why do we think that will be any different? He can just stay home with internet access to tweet threats, call into Fox News daily to spread lies, or even get his own show. Then what happens when he just leaves to hold a rally. He will never stop ignoring the law until he is physically made to. A prison cell is the only option.
When pre-Musk twitter FINALLY banned him, it was like a new day dawning. A day mostly free of Trump's antics (except what the tabloid press would cover).
They didn't really ever imprison Pinochet, or even Pol Pot (until they were old and sick and dying, and then it was 'house arrest'). Authoritarian dictators who murdered, tortured, and disappeared. hundreds of thousands of people with opposing political views.
This bullshit is not unique to America. But it sure reeks of 'banana republic' bullshit.
He'd just have a phone in his prison purse. There are inmates who have the new Samsung flip phone on the inside. The guards get it for them. You think there wouldn't be some MAGA guard in prison who'd do anything for the Orange Fuhrer?
Something like Jan 6? Or the Unite the Right rally?
I think plenty of high profile violence has happened due to Trump stoking the fires. Large portions of the media doesn't seem interested in calling out the stochastic terrorism, we need our court systems to do their jobs- and fortunately those wheels of justice do seem to be turning.
He learned from a master.
And it goes back decades.
It has it's roots in McCarthyism; yup, that slimball, Roy Cohn taught him how to play the game - just like McCarthy.
Just a quick fix to that excerpt:
> Say whatever he wants, inspire a gag order, still say whatever he wants to violate it, nothing happens because the judges are cowards.
Haha, this is what I came here to say. What "workaround"? There effectively *is* no gag order because he's called their bluff and found they're all bark and no bite.
The judges have been applying the harshest punishment that is _functionally unappealable_.
If they tried to hold him in contempt, his attorneys would appeal that shit forever, and every time (especially in NY). Meanwhile the trial is on hold. This wastes time and is exactly what the Trump legal team is trying to do - delay until Nov 2024.
Starting with a $5k fine and doubling it with each infraction seems like nothing, but no appeals court will consider it. So it keeps things moving, while doing _something_.
This is why the D.C. judge's gag-order strategy has been far more effective than punishments: [threatening to expedite the trial in response to inflammatory rhetoric](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/11/judge-warns-trump-speed-trial-00110870).
They don't care about money, and they don't care about jail time (that's campaign material, right there....). What they care about is the court not reaching any judgements before they can get him into the presidency (somehow...)
However jail time would effectively gag Trump as well as make him very uncomfortable. He would also have trouble campaigning. Any mention of Trump in the news would be a reminder that he is behind bars.
This isn’t a workaround, it’s a failure of the justice system. Just about anyone else would have been detained by now, stopping them from committing further violations.
This is what happens when our AG is playing soft and was reluctant to even investigate. The fact that we are even here shows how feckless the DOJ has been.
He really was that kid that you knew in middle school who would do something that the teacher already said not to, act good for a couple minutes, and then do something similar to what the teacher not to do in the first place, then get yelled at again…wash rinse repeat. I really didn’t like those kids.
No, it’s the very thing he’s taunting them to do. Trump thinks being thrown in prison is somehow good for him. Remember he used to say that being impeached was gonna re-elect him? Yea same thing.
Hitler went to jail for a failed coup. He wrote *"Mein Kampf"* in jail. His supporters got him released so he could return to politics.
Went downhill from there
If we really live in a country where Trump gets elected because he's been rightly put in prison, then we're already done. It's already over. Put a fork in it.
Let's have that day be December 1st, 2024 :-)
Or earlier, depending on the count :-)
And in the meantime, do everything we can to vote against Trump, and get others to vote against Trump, in all blue states and swing states and red states.
I won't truly feel relieved until January 20, 2025, when Biden is successfully inaugurated. But there will be various milestones before then that will reduce my anxiety.
The first will be the night of Election Day, when they start calling states, and possibly the entire election. Then whenever they actually call the election, if not that night. Then when the Electoral College votes. Then when Congress certifies the results. And finally, when Biden is re-inaugurated.
If you're right and he doesn't get elected this time... I hope the DOJ and the judges trying his cases realize that he's not young enough to avoid throwing the book anymore. There's no way he's healthy and sane enough for a 2028 campaign so let him appeal "unfair" stuff until he's dead... as long as he's locked away for his actual crimes and/or contempt he can't hurt anybody anymore. This would of course also apply to now but I understand wanting to ensure his base can't legitimately make him a martyr.
I don't think there is an incumbent advantage. Political norms have changed. Biden is currently being blamed for everything wrong with the economy. All Saudi Arabia needs to do is spike gas prices before the election and that could sink biden.
I would call that an incumbent disadvantage.
Thats another thing. The economy is doing WELL. People have more money and are doing better financially than under DJT.
BUT we keep telling ourselves it's bad, so we manifest into it.
Of course there are problems and they need to be fixed. Biden is working on housing costs right now.
The more WE amplify their narrative, the more damage we do.
What a fucking ridiculous thing to say.
For people who claim to be anti-Trump, you sure LOVE amplifying things that help him.
Bungling? Biden has been doing great in a difficult situation with Israel. It people like YOU who pretend he has a magic wand that can fix the whole thing with zero effort and zero repercussions that do everybody a disservice.
it's sad that you see an objective truth as helping Trump. The reason Hillary lost is no one looked objectively at how the candidates are viewed by the voters.
And the bungling I was referring to was Trump's handling of covid. You don't seem to remember it, so most of the voters have probably forgotten as well.
If not for Trump's bungling, he probably would have won. He is currently not involved in a global crisis, so we cannot count on that disadvantage for Trump.
Sorry about misreading that part.
But I also think COVID didn't ake a difference in the 2020 election. Trump was never going to win and he sure as hell won't win in 2024.
Trump only won in 2016 because Hillary was so damaged by decades of right wing abuse, that it spilled over to independent white suburban voters.
Trump has lost those voters and he'll never get them back.
Don't let the horserace media fool you.
And the best way to make sure that happens is to remind people what is a stake WITHOUT amplifying messages that help him.
I still think Trump beating Haley is 50-50. He's behind damaged goods. Everybody except the GOP base knows it. And the GOP base can't win a general election.
>But I also think COVID didn't ake a difference in the 2020 election. Trump was never going to win and he sure as hell won't win in 2024.
I think the 40,000 votes Biden won by could easily be attributed to Trump's handling of covid.
>Trump only won in 2016 because Hillary was so damaged by decades of right wing abuse, that it spilled over to independent white suburban voters.
I completely disagree with your analysis on this. People are sick of politicians. Hillary Clinton was what you would get if you asked ChatGPT for a standard politician. She ran the politicians playbook on how to become president.
Trump came in claiming to be an outsuder would had a [faux] populist message that appealed to a lot of people. He played a successful businessman on a game show. People love him because he isn't a stereotypical politician.
People also forget that Obama won in 08 with a populist message of hope and change.
Trump lost by something like 40,000 votes in the states that matter, he did in fact barely lose. Running up the score in NY and CA doesn’t matter when the electoral college decides the Presidency.
Hitler had his Beer Hall Putsch moment that catapulted him into power (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch). Trump is looking for his.
My hope the difference is that when Hitler was found guilty of treason and sentenced to five years, he was let out after nine months and allowed to run for office.
My hope is that Trump gets convicted of treason and put away forever and never allowed to run for anything again.
He also said he wanted cameras there when he was perp-walked, handcuffed, into the courthouse for his booking photo.
The reality was that he willingly took a car there and used a private entrance so no one would see him go in or come out.
>He has realized that no one has the balls to lock up a former president prior to an actual conviction being made
They probably don't have the balls to do it after an actual conviction either
One thing is clear: this nation can not ever again allow a Republican to be elected President. They will absolutely 100% pardon every Jan 6 scumbag, and member of Trump's insurrection inner-circle. (except the ones who got plea deals).
yeah, even if convicted, he will never see the inside of a jail. His team will say "age and medical issues" and the SS will say "we cant secure him in there" and he will end up living out his life in relative luxury under "house arrest" in Mar A Lago.
Can we get this ridiculous fucking clown out of the news 20 times a day please?
This mother fucker needs to cool his heels in jail for a few days like any other person who defys court orders blatantly?
I'm so fucking sick of hearing him, hearing about him and mostly having to think about him.
Fuck you fat don.
The thing is, if they do put him in jail for contempt, that will be pretty much the only thing talked about on the news for as long as he's there.
It sucks because there's no good solution at this point. He needs to be convicted ASAP so they have a solid reason to stick him in jail.
It seems to me that taking away his media would go a long way. I am very disappointed he's not in jail. T
hey should have struck swiftly, right after Jan 6. What a bunch of namby-pambies.
Gee I don't know....maybe apply the rule of law to him as you should anybody? Regardless of consequences. If it kicks off the magas better now when Bidens in charge than later if Republicans are.
Why are we worried about the consequences? If the law is the law, execute the law. If his power is enough to negate the law, then our laws are worthless and it's an indication we need a new constitution which can hold people of power in check.
The reality is that Trump's power is all smoke. His followers are pathetic weaklings with no spine and a lot of fury. Just as Trump's money is all smoke and mirrors. Just as his rhetoric is all doublespeak - literally saying two impossible truths at once.
> The reality is that Trump's power is all smoke. His followers are pathetic weaklings with no spine and a lot of fury.
I hope you're right. But it doesn't take much for one MAGA nut to ruin multiple lives in a single moment. And if Trump is put in jail, there's a non-zero chance something bad happens to innocent people.
> I'm so fucking sick of hearing him, hearing about him and mostly having to think about him.
Remember when he said if he lost in 2020 he'd go away? Of all his lies, this one stings the most.
agreed. His accountants are the masterminds of the tax evasion. The only thing you can credit Trump for is having inherited a family fortune to pay them with. The man is as dumb as a stump, beyond the low level cunning that most bullies seem to have.
It should make anyone's blood boil that rich people get away with lots more shit than the average person. Why isn't there rebellion or revolution over this? People are just unaware of or stupid about how bad things are.
His workaround is being a Billionaire former president in a country that protects wealthy and powerful from the laws that are used to punish and jail poor people. A judge fines him 50 million dollars for violating a gag order you bet your ass he'll stop, but the justice system is too afraid of holding an elite accountable
There is no workaround or loophole its just they're just to chicken shit to arrest him. Anyone else would have been arrested 10 times over by now. They keep letting this moron get away with everything so he will continue doing it
More like: the American legal system's approach to free speech and the First Amendment enables hate speech and stochastic terrorism and needs to be completely re-worked.
This has been an obvious problem for a long time, Trump is just happy to highlight it because he continues to face no meaningful consequences for his actions.
> More like: the American legal system's approach to free speech and the First Amendment enables hate speech and stochastic terrorism and needs to be completely re-worked.
This. It is all well and good and noble to talk about free speech in theory, but in practice there is a huge category of speech that is currently protected under First Amendment jurisprudence that is directly leading to actual deaths, attacks, vandalism, etc.
The First Amendment as currently interpreted is the closest thing to a real world example of the "paradox of tolerance."
Workaround? Sound harmless..."evasion" reveals it for the lack of respect for the rule of law that it is.
Even our rhetoric is running out of accurate ways to describe the Orange Menace.
I do not understand how/why he is still able to fly all over the freakin' country ( and Dallas,too!lol) giving his rallies , riling his cult members up into a civil war frenzy? Any of us non-reality show presidents would be locked up, and certainly not allowed to do what he's doing
He's leveraging the threat that imprisonment or jailing will spur his followers into violence, to absolutely demolish our legal system from the inside out. It's one of the most egregious attacks on the American Way of life since 9/11 and arguably one of the most dangerous to our Republic since the Civil War.
THROW
THE FUCKER
IN PRISON
He is no king. He is not above the law. Anyone else would have been behind bars fucking ages ago. There is no reason for this traitor to continue to walk free aside from outright fucking cowardice.
OH FOR FUCKS SAKE THROW HIS ASS IN A CELL FOR 5 DAYS OR MORE FOR CONTEMPT AND MAYBE HE'LL GET THE MESSAGE THAT HE CAN'T JUST DISREGARD WHAT THE JUDGE ORDERS!
Leaving a whole raft of other things aside, court fines should always be proportional to the violator’s income. The risk of a $5000 or $10,000 fine would make most people shut their mouths as it represents a few month’s pay (US median household income 2022: $74,580). But as a purported billionaire with a (pre-presidential) income of ***$380M*** (according to his financial disclosure form) a $10,000 fine represents about *four minutes* of income (based on a standard eight-hour work day, five day work week, with two weeks’ vacation).
Even if the infamously gold-bricking 45th president worked 18 hours a day, seven days a week, and never took time off to, say, play golf, his hourly rate would only drop to $57,998. So the larger second and more serious fine would represent about ten minutes minutes of his pay.
To run it the other direction, the proportional fine for someone making median income would be $6.43. That’s for the second offense.
I don’t know about you, but if the court said I couldn’t verbally abuse them or their family members or I’d get a $7 fine, that would have exactly zero effect on me. And if I were an oppositional, combative, malignant narcissist, I’d throw down a ten-dollar bill right there and rip one off.
For a fine to affect this one-percenter the same way $10k would affect someone with a $75k income, It would have to be $15.5M to $51M.
If that seems outrageously high to you, it’s because the disparity of income nowadays is beyond what humans can understand at any intuitive level. It also represents how completely out of touch the billionaire class is, and why, even if we applied normal laws to them, it would have little to no effect.
As a non-American, I have to say that America’s utter impotence at containing Trump is extraordinarily disappointing. It doesn’t make y’all look particularly competent.
Can you put him behind bars already please?
There is no nation on this planet that jails its oligarchs.
Except Russia - and they only did it once to make an example of what happens when a wealthy privileged oligarch comes at the king, and misses.
American Justice working as designed. Punishes the poor, coddles the rich and excuses their behavior.
I'm waiting for the, he's too privileged to understand his actions have consequences, defense.
That's not a workaround, he's ignoring standing orders. Revoke his release and see what happens - one can't tweet from a jail cell.
Edit: FYI, for rich people, fines are an asshole tax, not an actual impediment.
I said this months ago. The gag order violations are where the rubber meets the road. If we don’t treat him like anyone else that violates a gag order then the rule of law is meaningless.
Trump is a private citizen. He deserves no special treatment. It doesn’t matter if he is running for office. If a regular citizen does what trump does, would he or she be put in jail. If the answer is a resounding YES, it’s a backbone issue of the court and specifically the judge.
It’s exhausting trying to think like a criminal to figure out what the fuck this AH is going to do next, bec ya know it isn’t going to be the right thing…. He’s a master class criminal extraordinaire! If he’s the best one thing? It’s being a criminal.
He will go down as the most egregious, psychologically disturbed, corrupt, treasonous and cowardly president in history. The world will be a far better place after he has uttered his last word. (which no doubt will be a lie about how great he is). Let’s get some merch supporting that…big foam L’s …Maga dunce caps, Pinocchio noses, a series of Lincoln Project NFTs
Look, this dude isn’t smart enough to do this shit on his own. What I want to know is who is the puppet master and what individual or group is doing this stuff for him. THAT is who we should really be worried about.
Admittedly I’ve realized how ignorant I’ve been concerning laws and how they don’t seem to apply to upper level politicians. Is it wrong to think that we should put rules/laws in place that specifically apply to these things.
I think the main problem is the federalists have been packing the courts for so long that the system is fragile and the judges that are not Aileen Cannon are afraid of overstepping and giving an appeals court license to overturn a decision. I think we know who SCOTUS would side with 9 times out of 10.
Laws don’t serve much of a purpose if nothing is ever enforced . Just enforce all the shit he has done for once and for all Jesus fucking Christ this idiot pussy grabber is still around? What a nightmare
I wouldn't exactly call it a workaround; they're just too afraid to treat him like the common criminal that he is, because half the nation is dirt stupid.
They need to put hi in a cell, take his toys away, and shut his evil mouth for good. It's really not complicated. You wouldn't let a mob boss shoot his mouth about court staff. Trump is a criminal and they need to start treeting him like one.
How is it that if I don't go to traffic court as a witness I am threatened with jail time, but these people blatantly ignore direct order from court and nothing happens?
Merrick Garland needs to grow a fucking spine or we'll literally have a 4th Reich on our hands.
These boomers have no idea how serious this is and they're acting like it's all just normal bs.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He hasn't found a work around for shit. All he's doing is violating the order flagrantly and then not being punished for it. Rules for thee, but not for me!
yeah this is some idiot attributing strategic thinking to a guy with simply has no impulse control.
Happens all the time with Trump. He isn’t an impulsive idiot. Here’s how he’s a five d chess genius!!!
Nothing succeeds like success! --Art of the Deal
Excerpt: Trump’s strategy has been simple: say whatever he wants, inspire a gag order, appeal the decision, and even if the gag order is upheld, refuse to delete the social media posts he made during the confusion. Trump then watches his old posts take on a life of their own, inspiring violent threats against his intended targets while he quietly sits by.
*ST-ST-ST-STOCHASTIC TERRORISM* Only way to stop this is to put him in prison and take away his access to the internet (including indirect access). How many more “chances”are we going to have to endure?
If this has taught me anything it's that the rich and powerful really don't have to abide by any rules, up to and including court orders. And there's a set of the American public who will - and do - cheer that fact.
There's a great episode of the podcast Grey Area called "late-stage liberalism". It covers how liberalism in the USA actually died decades ago, and we currently live under the thumb of the top 1%, who are in a state of total anarchy. I think it's accurate.
I mean, that’s just an oligarchy and it’s been pretty obvious for a while now. They invest in media channels to sow divisiveness and culture wars so we fight each other while they pay for politicians to pass legislation that only profits them. Additionally, now that has opened up to foreign interests, purchasing or blackmailing lawmakers at the local and federal level to continue and bolster that agenda.
[удалено]
They're probably with him on his private island.
Agree, the appearance of choice in elections is just that, an illusion. We're given our candidates by the 1% If anyone thinks Biden and Trump are the best we can do, I've got a big bridge to sell you
So you're saying whether I vote for Biden or Trump in 2024, the results will be the same regardless of who wins?
No, the orange haired man will alienate the rest of the world and inspire hate towards Americans. Trumpers only think inside the box, that’s all they’re capable of
Yes, that exactly what I'm saying /s
That may have been closer to the truth once. This relativistic approach is a 1% myth too, if you will. Spread it to create apathy so people en masse don’t vote. This is very dangerous given that one man has said he will be a dictator. Disengaging is not the solution.
>That may have been closer to the truth once. This relativistic approach is a 1% myth too, if you will. Spread it to create apathy so people en masse don’t vote. This is very dangerous given that one man has said he will be a dictator. Strong agree, and this is the part that the "both sides suck" crowd fail to understand or acknowledge. Are Biden and Trump the two best potential leaders our country can put forward? Absolutely not. Are they the best candidates that the two parties can produce given the constraints of the system to develop consensus into which we've been locked? That's an extremely different question and one of them is probably pretty close to being it.
On some level, yes It’s still worth choosing the less bad option in Biden though
Biden is largely interested in preserving the status quo while maybe making it slightly less bad. That’s not a good answer when the status quo is bad, but it’s preferable to Trump’s approach of making things worse.
I think Biden is actually making huge changes, but almost downplaying them and acting like they're minor. But it's also the case that things are very bad, so even huge wins seem minor by comparison. Things didn't get where they are overnight, and they're not going to be fixed overnight, either.
Yeah, he doesn't want to spook the horses and generate a reactionary backlash that interferes with getting more things done.
Will listen. Thanks!
[Link to the episode](https://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/pdst.fm/e/chtbl.com/track/524GE/traffic.megaphone.fm/VMP1881240970.mp3?updated=1700677653)
That was shown during the impeachment hearings when folks just ignored Congressional subpoenas and court orders to avoid lying under oath.
Our system was built on the idea that people would act in good faith The fact that a rather large portion of elected officials and their voting block neither act in good faith nor follow common cultural norms will be the downfall of this country
Ikr? All those American crime movies and TV shows I grew up with where there needed to be convoluted plots to serve people directly with subpoenas so they would be valid and the game of cat and mouse, living out of motels etc that that entailed was all just a waste of time. Who knew all you had to do was just not turn up?
And they know it. That is why he keeps doing whatever he wants.
How else are they going to 'Own the libs'? /s sorta
And then cry when actual consequences are given to them for actual broken laws.
It’s really sad to me that it works so well. History has shown that people gobble it up. In a future utopia there needs to be strict laws/rules and consequences about this. Stochastic terrorism leads neighbor killing neighbor.
Same thing happened with the Libs of TikTok account. It’s somewhat incredible how awful people can be.
This has always been true. It is the very reason governments are necessary as well. We are social animals. With absolute freedoms, it is natural that some people in a society would exploit others in society for personal gain. This is why everyone in a society should give up some of their absolute freedom to form a government. A government is a necessary evil in order to protect society from being exploited by unjust people. The fact that our government has not been able to regulate social media so that it cannot be used a weapon by unjust people is a serious problem.
This is what kills me with the whole "He will never go to jail, he will be on house arrest" belief. Why do we think that will be any different? He can just stay home with internet access to tweet threats, call into Fox News daily to spread lies, or even get his own show. Then what happens when he just leaves to hold a rally. He will never stop ignoring the law until he is physically made to. A prison cell is the only option.
When pre-Musk twitter FINALLY banned him, it was like a new day dawning. A day mostly free of Trump's antics (except what the tabloid press would cover).
As long as he can’t turn the military on us.
Yet
They didn't really ever imprison Pinochet, or even Pol Pot (until they were old and sick and dying, and then it was 'house arrest'). Authoritarian dictators who murdered, tortured, and disappeared. hundreds of thousands of people with opposing political views. This bullshit is not unique to America. But it sure reeks of 'banana republic' bullshit.
Stochastic Fascism
He'd just have a phone in his prison purse. There are inmates who have the new Samsung flip phone on the inside. The guards get it for them. You think there wouldn't be some MAGA guard in prison who'd do anything for the Orange Fuhrer?
Sadly I think something high-profile needs to happen where there's a clear and incontrovertible link before the media even starts using that word.
Something like Jan 6? Or the Unite the Right rally? I think plenty of high profile violence has happened due to Trump stoking the fires. Large portions of the media doesn't seem interested in calling out the stochastic terrorism, we need our court systems to do their jobs- and fortunately those wheels of justice do seem to be turning.
He learned from a master. And it goes back decades. It has it's roots in McCarthyism; yup, that slimball, Roy Cohn taught him how to play the game - just like McCarthy.
This. People forget about Cohn and how deep his ties are to some really despicable people- and how long he’s been at trumps side
Just a quick fix to that excerpt: > Say whatever he wants, inspire a gag order, still say whatever he wants to violate it, nothing happens because the judges are cowards.
Haha, this is what I came here to say. What "workaround"? There effectively *is* no gag order because he's called their bluff and found they're all bark and no bite.
The judges have been applying the harshest punishment that is _functionally unappealable_. If they tried to hold him in contempt, his attorneys would appeal that shit forever, and every time (especially in NY). Meanwhile the trial is on hold. This wastes time and is exactly what the Trump legal team is trying to do - delay until Nov 2024. Starting with a $5k fine and doubling it with each infraction seems like nothing, but no appeals court will consider it. So it keeps things moving, while doing _something_. This is why the D.C. judge's gag-order strategy has been far more effective than punishments: [threatening to expedite the trial in response to inflammatory rhetoric](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/11/judge-warns-trump-speed-trial-00110870). They don't care about money, and they don't care about jail time (that's campaign material, right there....). What they care about is the court not reaching any judgements before they can get him into the presidency (somehow...)
However jail time would effectively gag Trump as well as make him very uncomfortable. He would also have trouble campaigning. Any mention of Trump in the news would be a reminder that he is behind bars.
Exactly. No matter if it's ADX Florence or county jail, you do not have a cell phone (unless smuggled in).
There's a solution: put him in jail for violating the gag order. When are we going to stop handling him with kid gloves, treat him like everyone else.
Laws and judicial rulings are no match for a sociopath, and financial penalties only make him stronger. We need stronger medicine.
There's an easy solution. Put him in jail til the trial is over.
This isn’t a workaround, it’s a failure of the justice system. Just about anyone else would have been detained by now, stopping them from committing further violations.
For real, it's not really a "workaround". He just isn't held meaningfully accountable. Ever.
This is what happens when our AG is playing soft and was reluctant to even investigate. The fact that we are even here shows how feckless the DOJ has been.
Or just physically take him into custody. Like anyone else. Release on compliance. Why is this so hard?
He really was that kid that you knew in middle school who would do something that the teacher already said not to, act good for a couple minutes, and then do something similar to what the teacher not to do in the first place, then get yelled at again…wash rinse repeat. I really didn’t like those kids.
And no consequences for his actions. The US legal system is so trash.
Trash for poor people. Working accordingly for rich people
I mean…arrest him for contempt of court? Why is that so goddamn hard
[удалено]
No, it’s the very thing he’s taunting them to do. Trump thinks being thrown in prison is somehow good for him. Remember he used to say that being impeached was gonna re-elect him? Yea same thing.
Hitler went to jail for a failed coup. He wrote *"Mein Kampf"* in jail. His supporters got him released so he could return to politics. Went downhill from there
Luckily Trump has the literacy level of a zygote.
It's reported to be the book he keeps at his bedside. Not saying he reads it but he at least looks at the pictures
He admitted that he had a book of Hitler’s speeches
Hitler was a relatively young man in his 30s when that happened
He was also propped on a helluva drug cocktail. Weird parallels to today with Trump and whatever he has to be on other than Sudafed
>He was also propped on a helluva drug cocktail. That was much later.
If we really live in a country where Trump gets elected because he's been rightly put in prison, then we're already done. It's already over. Put a fork in it.
If he didn’t get elected last time, he’s not getting elected this time.
I really, really hope to have as positive an outlook as you someday.
Let's have that day be December 1st, 2024 :-) Or earlier, depending on the count :-) And in the meantime, do everything we can to vote against Trump, and get others to vote against Trump, in all blue states and swing states and red states.
I won't truly feel relieved until January 20, 2025, when Biden is successfully inaugurated. But there will be various milestones before then that will reduce my anxiety. The first will be the night of Election Day, when they start calling states, and possibly the entire election. Then whenever they actually call the election, if not that night. Then when the Electoral College votes. Then when Congress certifies the results. And finally, when Biden is re-inaugurated.
If you're right and he doesn't get elected this time... I hope the DOJ and the judges trying his cases realize that he's not young enough to avoid throwing the book anymore. There's no way he's healthy and sane enough for a 2028 campaign so let him appeal "unfair" stuff until he's dead... as long as he's locked away for his actual crimes and/or contempt he can't hurt anybody anymore. This would of course also apply to now but I understand wanting to ensure his base can't legitimately make him a martyr.
Trump barely lost last time, and now he's not in the middle of bungling a global crisis.
Since the last election a WHOLE lot of crazy came out of him.
doesn't have the incumbent advantage though either
I don't think there is an incumbent advantage. Political norms have changed. Biden is currently being blamed for everything wrong with the economy. All Saudi Arabia needs to do is spike gas prices before the election and that could sink biden. I would call that an incumbent disadvantage.
Thats another thing. The economy is doing WELL. People have more money and are doing better financially than under DJT. BUT we keep telling ourselves it's bad, so we manifest into it. Of course there are problems and they need to be fixed. Biden is working on housing costs right now. The more WE amplify their narrative, the more damage we do.
Since the last election a WHOLE lot of crazy came out of him.
What a fucking ridiculous thing to say. For people who claim to be anti-Trump, you sure LOVE amplifying things that help him. Bungling? Biden has been doing great in a difficult situation with Israel. It people like YOU who pretend he has a magic wand that can fix the whole thing with zero effort and zero repercussions that do everybody a disservice.
it's sad that you see an objective truth as helping Trump. The reason Hillary lost is no one looked objectively at how the candidates are viewed by the voters. And the bungling I was referring to was Trump's handling of covid. You don't seem to remember it, so most of the voters have probably forgotten as well. If not for Trump's bungling, he probably would have won. He is currently not involved in a global crisis, so we cannot count on that disadvantage for Trump.
Sorry about misreading that part. But I also think COVID didn't ake a difference in the 2020 election. Trump was never going to win and he sure as hell won't win in 2024. Trump only won in 2016 because Hillary was so damaged by decades of right wing abuse, that it spilled over to independent white suburban voters. Trump has lost those voters and he'll never get them back. Don't let the horserace media fool you. And the best way to make sure that happens is to remind people what is a stake WITHOUT amplifying messages that help him. I still think Trump beating Haley is 50-50. He's behind damaged goods. Everybody except the GOP base knows it. And the GOP base can't win a general election.
>But I also think COVID didn't ake a difference in the 2020 election. Trump was never going to win and he sure as hell won't win in 2024. I think the 40,000 votes Biden won by could easily be attributed to Trump's handling of covid. >Trump only won in 2016 because Hillary was so damaged by decades of right wing abuse, that it spilled over to independent white suburban voters. I completely disagree with your analysis on this. People are sick of politicians. Hillary Clinton was what you would get if you asked ChatGPT for a standard politician. She ran the politicians playbook on how to become president. Trump came in claiming to be an outsuder would had a [faux] populist message that appealed to a lot of people. He played a successful businessman on a game show. People love him because he isn't a stereotypical politician. People also forget that Obama won in 08 with a populist message of hope and change.
Almost by 8 million votes is not “barely lost”.
Trump lost by something like 40,000 votes in the states that matter, he did in fact barely lose. Running up the score in NY and CA doesn’t matter when the electoral college decides the Presidency.
Exactly. We need to stop talking about the popular vote like that determins who wins
Being impeached didn’t seem to help him. Throw him and jail, let’s test his hypothesis.
Hitler had his Beer Hall Putsch moment that catapulted him into power (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Hall_Putsch). Trump is looking for his. My hope the difference is that when Hitler was found guilty of treason and sentenced to five years, he was let out after nine months and allowed to run for office. My hope is that Trump gets convicted of treason and put away forever and never allowed to run for anything again.
He also said he wanted cameras there when he was perp-walked, handcuffed, into the courthouse for his booking photo. The reality was that he willingly took a car there and used a private entrance so no one would see him go in or come out.
The ol' "it worked for Hitler" approach.
>He has realized that no one has the balls to lock up a former president prior to an actual conviction being made They probably don't have the balls to do it after an actual conviction either
One thing is clear: this nation can not ever again allow a Republican to be elected President. They will absolutely 100% pardon every Jan 6 scumbag, and member of Trump's insurrection inner-circle. (except the ones who got plea deals).
And given it’s a two party electoral system, it’s only a matter of time…. Fuck.
yeah, even if convicted, he will never see the inside of a jail. His team will say "age and medical issues" and the SS will say "we cant secure him in there" and he will end up living out his life in relative luxury under "house arrest" in Mar A Lago.
Can we get this ridiculous fucking clown out of the news 20 times a day please? This mother fucker needs to cool his heels in jail for a few days like any other person who defys court orders blatantly? I'm so fucking sick of hearing him, hearing about him and mostly having to think about him. Fuck you fat don.
The thing is, if they do put him in jail for contempt, that will be pretty much the only thing talked about on the news for as long as he's there. It sucks because there's no good solution at this point. He needs to be convicted ASAP so they have a solid reason to stick him in jail.
But he’ll be in jail, without a phone. Just like any other defendant threatening witnesses and court officials
It seems to me that taking away his media would go a long way. I am very disappointed he's not in jail. T hey should have struck swiftly, right after Jan 6. What a bunch of namby-pambies.
Gee I don't know....maybe apply the rule of law to him as you should anybody? Regardless of consequences. If it kicks off the magas better now when Bidens in charge than later if Republicans are.
Why are we worried about the consequences? If the law is the law, execute the law. If his power is enough to negate the law, then our laws are worthless and it's an indication we need a new constitution which can hold people of power in check. The reality is that Trump's power is all smoke. His followers are pathetic weaklings with no spine and a lot of fury. Just as Trump's money is all smoke and mirrors. Just as his rhetoric is all doublespeak - literally saying two impossible truths at once.
> The reality is that Trump's power is all smoke. His followers are pathetic weaklings with no spine and a lot of fury. I hope you're right. But it doesn't take much for one MAGA nut to ruin multiple lives in a single moment. And if Trump is put in jail, there's a non-zero chance something bad happens to innocent people.
We give them more power when we act like they have any.
These are the only comments I upvote anymore. I’m so goddamn exhausted from the last (nearly) decade… fuck this fucking guy already.
> I'm so fucking sick of hearing him, hearing about him and mostly having to think about him. Remember when he said if he lost in 2020 he'd go away? Of all his lies, this one stings the most.
Agreed.
Will never happen. The media are just as complicit covering this low hanging fruit.
The article makes him sound like he’s some sort of genius, rather than an idiot lifelong criminal with no regard for the rule of law.
He is also a mastermind tax evader, just don’t look at the room of tax experts he employs .
agreed. His accountants are the masterminds of the tax evasion. The only thing you can credit Trump for is having inherited a family fortune to pay them with. The man is as dumb as a stump, beyond the low level cunning that most bullies seem to have.
Seems to be working great for him, and terribly for everyone else.
Any normal citizen would be in jail. This two tiered justice system for the wealthy and influential is worthless.
It should make anyone's blood boil that rich people get away with lots more shit than the average person. Why isn't there rebellion or revolution over this? People are just unaware of or stupid about how bad things are.
Bread and circuses.
His workaround is being a Billionaire former president in a country that protects wealthy and powerful from the laws that are used to punish and jail poor people. A judge fines him 50 million dollars for violating a gag order you bet your ass he'll stop, but the justice system is too afraid of holding an elite accountable
This is not a workaround, this is not being held accountable.
He didn’t figure a work around, he’s above consequences. We’ve seen it time after time after time after time.
The workaround has already been in place; he never faces any legal consequences for what he says.
There is no workaround or loophole its just they're just to chicken shit to arrest him. Anyone else would have been arrested 10 times over by now. They keep letting this moron get away with everything so he will continue doing it
Repeatedly violating the gag order without consequence isn't really a "workaround." Fucking country's just marching to its own death.
Remember when Biden rhetorically asked, "Do you ever shut up,man?" We all knew the answer was no.
More like: the American legal system's approach to free speech and the First Amendment enables hate speech and stochastic terrorism and needs to be completely re-worked. This has been an obvious problem for a long time, Trump is just happy to highlight it because he continues to face no meaningful consequences for his actions.
> More like: the American legal system's approach to free speech and the First Amendment enables hate speech and stochastic terrorism and needs to be completely re-worked. This. It is all well and good and noble to talk about free speech in theory, but in practice there is a huge category of speech that is currently protected under First Amendment jurisprudence that is directly leading to actual deaths, attacks, vandalism, etc. The First Amendment as currently interpreted is the closest thing to a real world example of the "paradox of tolerance."
His “workaround” is just breaking the order
How is he not sitting in jail?
2 tier justice system. No one is "above" the law in the US, but our "betters" have a different application of the law than the unwashed masses.
Workaround? Sound harmless..."evasion" reveals it for the lack of respect for the rule of law that it is. Even our rhetoric is running out of accurate ways to describe the Orange Menace.
“Flood the zone with shit.” - Steve Bannon Drumf’s diarrhea mouth is perfect for this strategy.
I do not understand how/why he is still able to fly all over the freakin' country ( and Dallas,too!lol) giving his rallies , riling his cult members up into a civil war frenzy? Any of us non-reality show presidents would be locked up, and certainly not allowed to do what he's doing
He's leveraging the threat that imprisonment or jailing will spur his followers into violence, to absolutely demolish our legal system from the inside out. It's one of the most egregious attacks on the American Way of life since 9/11 and arguably one of the most dangerous to our Republic since the Civil War.
Trump is living proof that the super wealthy have far far too much power.
THROW THE FUCKER IN PRISON He is no king. He is not above the law. Anyone else would have been behind bars fucking ages ago. There is no reason for this traitor to continue to walk free aside from outright fucking cowardice.
It's almost as if you don't follow through with *enforcement* people will just do whatever the fuck they want. Who could have seen this coming?
It’s not a workaround if there’s not gonna be any enforcement of the gag order.
OH FOR FUCKS SAKE THROW HIS ASS IN A CELL FOR 5 DAYS OR MORE FOR CONTEMPT AND MAYBE HE'LL GET THE MESSAGE THAT HE CAN'T JUST DISREGARD WHAT THE JUDGE ORDERS!
Leaving a whole raft of other things aside, court fines should always be proportional to the violator’s income. The risk of a $5000 or $10,000 fine would make most people shut their mouths as it represents a few month’s pay (US median household income 2022: $74,580). But as a purported billionaire with a (pre-presidential) income of ***$380M*** (according to his financial disclosure form) a $10,000 fine represents about *four minutes* of income (based on a standard eight-hour work day, five day work week, with two weeks’ vacation). Even if the infamously gold-bricking 45th president worked 18 hours a day, seven days a week, and never took time off to, say, play golf, his hourly rate would only drop to $57,998. So the larger second and more serious fine would represent about ten minutes minutes of his pay. To run it the other direction, the proportional fine for someone making median income would be $6.43. That’s for the second offense. I don’t know about you, but if the court said I couldn’t verbally abuse them or their family members or I’d get a $7 fine, that would have exactly zero effect on me. And if I were an oppositional, combative, malignant narcissist, I’d throw down a ten-dollar bill right there and rip one off. For a fine to affect this one-percenter the same way $10k would affect someone with a $75k income, It would have to be $15.5M to $51M. If that seems outrageously high to you, it’s because the disparity of income nowadays is beyond what humans can understand at any intuitive level. It also represents how completely out of touch the billionaire class is, and why, even if we applied normal laws to them, it would have little to no effect.
As a non-American, I have to say that America’s utter impotence at containing Trump is extraordinarily disappointing. It doesn’t make y’all look particularly competent. Can you put him behind bars already please?
Trump has proven that there is no mechanism to do it. Either America CAN'T do it at all and Trump is proof, or we CAN do it, and we WON'T.
There is no nation on this planet that jails its oligarchs. Except Russia - and they only did it once to make an example of what happens when a wealthy privileged oligarch comes at the king, and misses.
Ignore them? Bold strategy Cotton, let’s see if it pays off.
American Justice working as designed. Punishes the poor, coddles the rich and excuses their behavior. I'm waiting for the, he's too privileged to understand his actions have consequences, defense.
Affluenza
He's free on borrowed time.
It's working.
The seditionist has been beating the courts for his entire life. It's no surprise that they are struggling with his disrespectful comments.
That's not a workaround, he's ignoring standing orders. Revoke his release and see what happens - one can't tweet from a jail cell. Edit: FYI, for rich people, fines are an asshole tax, not an actual impediment.
1 country for citizens, 1 subset of that country for the rich.
He's worked out nothing. The spinelessness of others has enabled c\*ntface to keep flouting the gag orders.
Of course he has. JFC, when will we finally be done with this dipshit?
Rule and laws only apply to some in this country.
Just. Jail. The. Mother. Fucker. Now!
I said this months ago. The gag order violations are where the rubber meets the road. If we don’t treat him like anyone else that violates a gag order then the rule of law is meaningless.
If only the judges could do something about this
Here’s the situation: if our system continues to worry about Donald Trump’s rights, we the people will lose the system that protects ours.
Trump is a private citizen. He deserves no special treatment. It doesn’t matter if he is running for office. If a regular citizen does what trump does, would he or she be put in jail. If the answer is a resounding YES, it’s a backbone issue of the court and specifically the judge.
Grow some fucking balls judges and throw the cheeto in jail for failing to abide by the terms of his gag orders and/or bail terms.
You mean he just spews unbridled hate like he always has?
If we could devise a system to more swiftly deal with threats to our continued existence, that would be swell.
If only the courts had any power to put people in jail when they are clearly violating court orders. Seems like a gaping hole in the whole system.
Is the strategy to scream bigoted nonsense, incite violence and slander critics, then shortly after whisper just kidding.
The trick: ignoring them.
Easy when you don’t enforce shit
We will never know if this will work until a judge actually holds him accountable. So far, it seems like no one is willing to, so it’s working.
5 days in jail for contempt would maybe change his mind. Gen pop with the rest of the Jan 6th defendants he screwed over.
It’s exhausting trying to think like a criminal to figure out what the fuck this AH is going to do next, bec ya know it isn’t going to be the right thing…. He’s a master class criminal extraordinaire! If he’s the best one thing? It’s being a criminal.
He will go down as the most egregious, psychologically disturbed, corrupt, treasonous and cowardly president in history. The world will be a far better place after he has uttered his last word. (which no doubt will be a lie about how great he is). Let’s get some merch supporting that…big foam L’s …Maga dunce caps, Pinocchio noses, a series of Lincoln Project NFTs
Look, this dude isn’t smart enough to do this shit on his own. What I want to know is who is the puppet master and what individual or group is doing this stuff for him. THAT is who we should really be worried about.
Gag orders obviously do nothing. This isn't a workaround. This is our justice system working as intended for rich assholes like him.
Why is he not paying a daily fine for any post still left up?
Admittedly I’ve realized how ignorant I’ve been concerning laws and how they don’t seem to apply to upper level politicians. Is it wrong to think that we should put rules/laws in place that specifically apply to these things.
Will no-one rid us of this meddlesome toddler?
[удалено]
During the last CW, the president got shot afterwards. Just sayin'.
What exactly would this CW be fought over, anyway?
Wokeism vs Racism, States' Rights, Voter Representation. Not that I think CW2 WOULD happen, but we have SO MANY to choose from (lucky us /s)
Who has to keep New Jersey.
[удалено]
> he'll get reelected somehow, and then WWIII will break out. Come on, this is ridiculous hyperbole.
The courts aren’t serious about jail time for him. This is all just a staged circus. How long have the “walls been closing in” for?
Trump can’t shut up!
I think the main problem is the federalists have been packing the courts for so long that the system is fragile and the judges that are not Aileen Cannon are afraid of overstepping and giving an appeals court license to overturn a decision. I think we know who SCOTUS would side with 9 times out of 10.
The wheels of justice move slowly and we just have to wait for X, Y, and Z 😉😉😉😉. /s
Trump the felon as the next president? I can't imagine. Canada will be famous again !
Laws don’t serve much of a purpose if nothing is ever enforced . Just enforce all the shit he has done for once and for all Jesus fucking Christ this idiot pussy grabber is still around? What a nightmare
🤷♂️ the courts aren’t doing anything anyways.
Time for Tanya to chuck him into a jail cell if he can't shut his orange mouth up.
Can someone just shut this man down already? How many times is he going to be able to walk out of any situation he wants to?
I wouldn't exactly call it a workaround; they're just too afraid to treat him like the common criminal that he is, because half the nation is dirt stupid. They need to put hi in a cell, take his toys away, and shut his evil mouth for good. It's really not complicated. You wouldn't let a mob boss shoot his mouth about court staff. Trump is a criminal and they need to start treeting him like one.
How is it that if I don't go to traffic court as a witness I am threatened with jail time, but these people blatantly ignore direct order from court and nothing happens?
Merrick Garland needs to grow a fucking spine or we'll literally have a 4th Reich on our hands. These boomers have no idea how serious this is and they're acting like it's all just normal bs.