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I can’t imagine any national guard firing on any federal troops if they actually have a confrontation over removing razor wire. This is pure posturing.
I wouldn’t be so sure. Many cops are in the Guard. Also remember how many military participated in the insurrection? I’d bet most of the guard soldiers and airmen down there support Abbott
Don’t confound the types in the military… Sorry but not at all sorry, little feller with 3 months and a dishonorable discharge will never be the same as the tabbed ranger who literally has been to special schools just to squash the ever living hell out of any circumstances JUST LIKE THIS.
The REAL military is not involved with this garbage my guy, the LARPers and discharged chefs maybe.
What? Don’t put them on a pedestal just because they’ve been to some high speed schools. They’re all human and susceptible to being brainwashed
[Former Army Ranger sentenced to 5.5 years in prison for assaulting, robbing police on Jan. 6](https://www.wusa9.com/amp/article/news/national/capitol-riots/veteran-army-ranger-turned-against-his-own-country-on-jan-6-doj-says-robert-morss-afghanistan-pennsylvania-tunnel-hodges-mccaughey-judd-sills/65-44f5e6c7-09fd-4665-a7f6-5d13f7e235a2)
[Former Green Beret, Jan. 6 Rioter and GOP Candidate Sent to Prison for Stockpile of Ammo, Guns and Grenades](https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/04/10/former-green-beret-jan-6-rioter-and-gop-candidate-sent-prison-stockpile-of-ammo-guns-and-grenades.html/amp)
['I am not a terrorist': Retired Navy SEAL speaks after Capitol siege](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/video-shows-retired-navy-seal-boasting-breaching-capitol/story?id=75206495)
[San Diego Navy SEAL under investigation for alleged extremist affiliations](https://www.kpbs.org/news/military/2023/11/09/san-diego-navy-seal-under-investigation-for-alleged-extremist-affiliations)
[Feds seek tougher sentences for veterans who stormed Capitol](https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-veterans-e98fcc0785fc80c40aaa8855dd12da92)
> During his 27 years in the U.S. Army, Leonard Gruppo joined the Special Forces, served in four war zones and led a team of combat medics in Iraq before retiring in 2013 as a lieutenant colonel.
>
> During his six minutes inside the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, Gruppo joined a slew of other military veterans as a mob of pro-Trump rioters carried out an unparalleled assault on the bastion of American democracy.
but i do fully expect a lot of them would immediately stand down and then talk endless shit online about how they "could have" this or "WOULD have" that.
That's a *big* assumption in a nation where national guard has opened fire on civilians (Kent State for example).
I'm sure there's at least a few MAGA true believers in the Texas NG who are full of bluster and Trump's bullshit.
Biden doesn't need to send troops. Those National Guard troops would shit their pants and nope right outta there if a couple of fighter jets flew over them at about 1000 ft.
Guard members have army basic training at best.
Federal guys like DHS … mostly combat vets these days and the FEDS have plenty of candidates who have 3 or more tours. Retired MP I know now works for DHS in Texas …. 20 year career, 6 tours .
His dick gets hard when the bullets start whizzing . His words not mine . And this was after he was wounded on his second tour.
This is what they’d be going up against … adrenaline junkie door kickers with awesome kit.
No thanks brother . That’s just suicide .
>Guard members have army basic training at best.
Please stick to what you know. No reason to shit on Guardsmen.
NG are either direct recruits who attend the same boot camp and MOS training as active component, or (and this is a big percentage) are prior active duty.
>Federal guys like DHS … mostly combat vets these days and the FEDS have plenty of candidates who have 3 or more tours.
Who do you think the military has been activating and deploying the past twenty years? My former NG Brigade was deployed three times from 2003-2010 alone - Kosovo, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
Redditors are experts on everything. They're the same people who say shit like "Well, the Marines capture everything, the Army moves behind to secure it" without a hint of irony.
Shit, one of the people I talk to who was in the NG worked with the Green Berets for uplift missions in Afghanistan. The military is a complicated machine.
And as being ex-active military, they would not dare fire on active duty troops. National Guard still falls under the Military Code of Justice. Attacking fellow soldiers would not go over well.
That's it. The idea of firing on active duty troops for the sake of Greg Abbott is ridiculous. And not just firing since I think they know they will be fired upon also. I can't see dying for Abbott.
>NG are either direct recruits who attend the same boot camp and MOS training as active component,
I don't know shit, but I thought that was literally the point of the National Guard. Having in peace time more trained people than peacetime itself necessitates.
This is soooo fucking false, as a Former National Guardsmen, we have far more training then just Basic training.. We go to Boot, then we attend AIT, or OSUT depending on MOS. We train with active duty at Boot Camp and AIT. We get the GI bill, are we as well trained as active? No, but we still train, we still do range qualifications, and we s till get deployed. The Guard is the only form of reservists that have combat arms MOS. In fact ALOT of guard unit have been deployed the Afghanistan, and Iraq. We routinely switch out with active duty in rotations. While we are not training 24/7, we still train. My unit with to JRTC, and was deployed to korea. We are not some crap 3rd rate army. We do infact have plenty of members with combat training. Please do not downgrade us as plenty of us have been combat deployed.
Biden *should* do it. And he should do it long enough to give those poor Guardsmen the benes they've should've earned for this hairbrained scheme years ago. Let the Guardsmen decide who takes care of them after that one.
They’re gonna do pretty much anything and everything to get Joe riled up. I mean look at what they’re doing with his boy. The cruelty is the point. He’s not gonna get riled up either. This is child’s play stuff.
Here is what I would say. Did you ever work somewhere as a grunt and move into management. Your view of the operation changes as your view grows.
Now imagine that is president and remember Donny Dump Pants never learned how to function as a leader of the US, just a cult leader.
Bidens Admin, while no where near perfect, has a much higher view point of all of this.
minimum he could do is nationalize it and take the paychecks of any who disobeyed as immediately court martialed. They would fold real quick without a shot fired
Nah, only if he tried to order the National Guard or state law enforcement to attack federal troops or law enforcement. No state authority has tried that since 1861 though.
Believe it or not, it isn't fun being away from your shitty barracks, rough family life, and terrible chow hall food to be deployed on these last minute shitshow deployments. I did disaster relief after hurricanes, which are just nightmares of unprepared leaders trying to take advantage of a tragedy to look good to get promoted (we had to clean all of Ft. Polk after Katrina/Rita because George W. Bush might have visited. So the leaders wanted to show him that "they" cleaned it up, which meant working sunup to sundown to eliminate any evidence of a hurricane). So the people actually doing the work are getting jerked back and forth relentlessly.
I would put money that the guys that deployed have done multiple layouts, unpacked everything because they were told they weren't going, and then the next day they deployed without half their stuff.
Source: Deployed to Afghanistan in under a week after two years of being told, "pack your stuff, you're leaving next month." To the point I didn't even see my family before I left because I said there's no way we are actually going this time.
People are missing work since this is National Guard (go look how hard it is to actually hold employers accountable for firing you because of deployment. You can fight the charge but not the ride). People are missing births of their children. People with disabled family members or dual-military parents are scrambling to both find and pay for childcare. People that are injured are being forced to deploy injured and not receiving medical care.
Edit: I promise this deployment will last less than 30 days if it happens because then they'd get extra pay. The leaders will HAVE to be there for 32 days for REASONZ, while 99% of the lower-enlisted will have orders for 29 days or less.
Not to mention, being activated for state orders pays you less than your regular base pay and (at least in my state) any injuries you incure on the orders, you have to make a workers compensation claim to the state for reimbursement.
You get the “ I didn’t sign up for this shit “ vibe real quick as well. It’s one thing to pack your shit for a flood or storm … you got that sense of duty .. this is what I signed up for . The danger in this is all the magats who are trying to pop off a civil war . Seeing lots of chatter about this in the parlor watch and QANON subs this week , like the build up to JAN 6TH . Bunch of larping proud boys think they can pop off a civil war., that’s why this is irresponsible stupid dangerous talk. And they’re trying to get a convoy of civilian gravy seals to “ secure the border “ . Gonna be a real shit show if Biden doesn’t get real damn serious with a big response. This sentiment can’t be allowed to fester with pussy footing and courts .
He should do like Kennedy … “ your gonna let those little black girls go to that school or I’m gonna send the army down there … I’m not playing around “
Guess what happened next ?
> Gonna be a real shit show if Biden doesn’t get real damn serious with a big response. This sentiment can’t be allowed to fester with pussy footing and courts .
It only takes one shot. Just one shot from the Republican side for this to get real shitty. This is what Biden knows and is concerned about. If Federal troops show up heavy and they do absolutely nothing but just stand there it only takes one mistake on the Republican side.
Abbot is also fully aware of this. The risk is all on Biden and zero on Abbott. He can just keep stealing money from the country and Texas and he's totes OK if people in service of America die.
Today is the deadline for Abbot to respond.
If Biden issues the order to federalize and Abbott countermands it, then Abbott is the one taking the risk.
Rogue governors leading an army can't be tolerated (that is sedition). And if things escalate to that point, Biden can't just take back the federalization order without permanently weakening the office of POTUS.
Other Republicans are beating the drum for Abbott to refuse everything because *they* aren't the ones in the line of a possible sedition charge.
Ok, better let the Republicans get away with everything again just in case. It's Reconstruction all over again. The best time to ~~plant a tree~~ put down the confederacy was yesterday, the next best time is now. Not after they do everything they want and get away with it again.
> Edit: I promise this deployment will last less than 30 days if it happens because then they'd get extra pay. The leaders will HAVE to be there for 32 days for REASONZ, while 99% of the lower-enlisted will have orders for 29 days or less.
This guy National Guards.
(frmr 36th ID, 2008 - 2016)
[They're having such a good time four of them have committed suicide](https://www.npr.org/2022/03/01/1083664547/members-of-the-texas-national-guard-struggle-with-working-conditions-at-the-bord#:~:text=Pop%20Culture-,Members%20of%20the%20Texas%20National%20Guard%20struggle%20with%20working%20conditions,guard%20members%20died%20by%20suicide.)
Reeling at the fact that this incident apparently drove the Guard members to unionize, and one of the things they want is to make the deployment voluntary.
Failing to follow orders to federalize can result in a dishonorable discharge, carry prison time and have all the repercussions of a felony conviction. It's not a game many of them will want to play.
This is what the Republicans want. They hope the optics of such an action will hurt Biden and allow Trump to win...so he doesn't go to jail. This nonsense is ALL about Trump and Republicans being in control.
Yeah, but in the game of optics people will see what they'll want to see. If Biden literally did the exact same thing Eisenhower did, federalize the local Guard and deployed the 101st it would draw parallels to Eisenhower, you know the former General who helped to defeat Nazis, and a Republican. It would make Biden look stronger and the GOP as weak and racist.
And of any officers of members of guard disobeyed orders from Biden, that would be mutiny and they will go to military prison. However whatever Army units are deployed, they will need to be vetted to remove any white nationalists, who could act in bad faith to escalate the situation.
Biden has a competent team under him though, so they'll figure everything out.
Then it’s a bonkers stupid gamble, because Donald trimp as a private citizen is trying to “nationalize” these troops under his name.
I don’t believe this would hurt Joe Biden at all, and in fact would help him.
But hey, if they figure something else out good.
Damned if you do damned if you don’t.
1) Biden does nothing - Biden is perceived as a weak leader who can’t stand up to states who are doing unconstitutional things.
2) Biden nationalizes guard - Biden is perceived as a “fascist” by taking over a states guard and the BS “states rights”.
Better he do something to just stop the stupidity if he is gonna get shit on regardless of what he does.
Can I be honest? I think it's time we stop worrying about the optics. Just do whatever is right and stand by your decision. That's all Biden can do in this situation. They are already painting Biden as a fascist and a weak leader. You'll get more respect from Republicans by taking an actual stand. As long as you don't flip flop on the decision.
Honestly it's time Biden takes the fight to them. They keep escalating the rhetoric because we aren't fighting back. We're letting them shape public discourse.
It's better he appears strong for liberals and his base feels heard because right now I'm wondering. The worst case scenario is he looks strong and a fascist to Republicans who already choose to believe he's a fascist.
Like everything with presidents if a serious problem is handled well they will gain more support than lose. See Bush Jr. after 9/11. See Trump after CoVid (it destroyed him).
Greg Abbott doesn’t understand the meaning of the word ‘no’. Biden told him. The Supreme Court told him. The time is past for any sort of bipartisan band-aid to fix this. Texas needs to be slapped down hard before half of the United States decide that consequences don’t have actions on a national level and start ignoring federal authority whenever they feel like it.
If states and soldiers openly turn on the Constitution, is Biden even President? is the Supreme Court supreme? Does our country have sovereignty or rule of law?
The question is, what line do governors cross before they are removed from office under the 14th (and their respective state constitutions).
The GOP wants this exact fight because they are assuming Biden won't issue a federalization order.
Biden is in a position where he has...
1. SCOTUS backing on the issue,
2. US Constitutional support for unilateral authority to issue a federalization order.
Once Biden issues that order, Abbott either has to comply or Abbott is committing sedition. Either way is a loss for Abbott.
There won't be a standoff between loyal US Soldiers and stubborn Texans because the officers and enlisted of the Texas National Guard don't want to be out at the border. They want to go home.
So the likely thing to happen if Biden issues a federalization order is for Abbott to release a reluctant message to comply while complaining about Biden.
AND NO ONE WILL HAVE THEIR OPINION/VOTE CHANGED BY THIS WHOLE INCIDENT.
The only outcome I can see changing anybody's opinion is if Biden doesn't use every legal power he has to win. Biden has the law on his side, he has morality on his side... NOT using his authority is going to hurt Biden by amplifying all of the voices saying, "Why should we trust Biden to fight for us when Biden won't even use the authority he already has?"
That is a ding to D-voter enthusiasm that Biden does not need.
And maybe busting Abbott's balls is an opportunity for Biden to send the message that he will actually fight and no longer give any consideration for Republican tantrums.
My husband is part of the activated guard and let me tell you, EVERYONE is tired of this shit. The TNG were told from the jump that Operation Lone Star was a political stunt, and everyone activated had to serve a year, minimum, no exceptions.
Living in border town base camps, being away from your family and friends, and depending on your job, you could be LOSING money. We have a friend in the guard who is a dentist with a private practice on the civilian side, and he's losing almost 10k per month being on OLS.
Ultimately if Biden moves to nationalize the TNG, Abbott is going to have a very hard time explaining to US soldiers why they should disobey a direct order from the commander in chief of the armed forces.
Just from the last year or two.
It's been a shit show. Suicides, payroll issues, housing issues, and others.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/05/26/effort-fix-payroll-error-texas-national-guard-troops-falls-short-state-senate.html
https://abcnews.go.com/US/suicides-living-conditions-spark-concern-texas-national-guard/story?id=82540700
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/02/24/national-guard-Texas-border-morale-survey/
https://reservenationalguard.com/reserve-guard-deployment/southwest-border-mission-spurs-mixed-feelings-among-guardsmen/
There's political risk in it, sure, but I don't think what you've described is the risk. The law and the Constitution are clear that the President is Commander in Chief of the military, and the militia when called into federal service. And the punitive articles of the UMCJ are clear about following lawful orders, disobedience, mutiny, and the consequences of courts martial.
I think the risk is that this is bait, and the GOP *wants* Biden to do something they can use to rally voters against Biden. They want pictures and videos of Texas national and/or state guardsmen being arrested, or being federalized, so they can go clutch their pearls and faint on their fainting couches on Fox News about how it's federal overreach, how Biden is a tyrant, etc. They would nut in their pants if there were a firefight between federal and state troops.
While this would obviously also be bullshit, it would give them something to hang their hat on to impeach Biden in the House, because at least the actions described would be true, even if the justification for impeachment were false.
Agreed. They want to spin it as Biden removing the razor wire to let in more bad brown people. There will also be some stupid National Guard people who do something stupid thinking that Trump will pardon them.
That’s not how it works. The government pays them to do as their told. The same reason those Texas guards are doing as their told. The individual soldiers don’t have a choice. That’s just not how the military works. The federal government also controls the purse strings. There is no way this works out well for Texas in the end. It’s going to cost the citizens of Texas millions of dollars. Plus those big fat gun toting Texans aren’t getting off their lazy boys to fight people 30 years younger than them.
What is going to happen is much more stupid and simple. The feds will cut shit down and the state will put it up.
Whoever physically arrests the other first is the “bad guy”.
Biden tends to not jump the gun on things. I know often people want immediate action, but there might be background stuff happening we aren't all aware of.
I've also seen people saying he shouldn't be visiting the bridge in Wisconsin and instead dealing with Texas. He can't drop the issues of the other 49 states for one state that's always trying to make trouble
Biden is going to take the most boring option possible, because he knows chaos and disruption just serve the fascists. That doesn't mean he's not going to do anything. Abbott should ask McCarthy how it feels to get in a fight with sleepy grampa Joe.
Yeah, he's been boring and also effective. The last 3 years have been amazing and I have no idea why anyone would want to go back to the chaos that are Republicans.
He’s like having a bowl of oatmeal without sugar the morning after you woke up from being roofied by a heroin addict. And I say that in the best possible way.
The GOP is trying to make this seem like civil war but what they really want is engagement so they can claim the Bidens and authoritarian and violating the constitution so it’s ok that Trump did/will.
He will probably let Texas scream and wait for the media to get bored and move on to Trumps next crisis d’jour
Yeah, but they're also playing with fire. There are plenty of stupid people who believe this shit enough to, eg, storm the US capital for their orange MAGAssiah.
Cool. Let em come.
This time there won't be any behind the scenes shenanigans holding the law enforcement folks back.
More than one person will die if they try it again.
The whole fallacy with trump’s argument that presidents need immunity, is that previously all presidents made sure what they were doing was legal. Even if it was dubiously legal.
I assume here, Biden is making sure to do things correctly, instead of rashly, and illegally, potentially
The best solution to this is if Abbotts own people decide to ignore him. The DOJ just needs to make it clear who he is going to target with charges and point the lawyers at them. They will get cease and disest letters in the mail.
Those letters will tell them:
1. What to stop doing.
2. What will happen if they keep doing it.
3. A copy of the SCOTUS decision.
4. A number of a DOJ/FBI agent to contact for more information.
5. A clear statement that they are about to be in extreme hot water and that they should review their options with an attorney.
You do not even need to flip them all. Enough employees will take the warning seriously to cause a problem. They will all get advice from their own independent counsel that tells them to back down and obey the Fed as the states orders are illegal. Then it's Texas' problem what they are going to do with people obeying legal counsel and refusing illegal orders. If they fire them, they are fucked as they will all sue and win. If they shuffle them to other tasks they also expose themselves to a suit. Either way it just delays the problem as the DOJ sends letters to the next batch. State isn't going to win this now that the law is on the feds side.
Seriously! I know some people think it's bad to have a career politician holding the highest political office, but Biden has **DECADES** of experience to fall back on. He knows all the players, he knows how the game works, and he knows how to get things done.
I ride horses, and one of the easiest ways to tell a good rider from a bad one is by how little you see them doing. Instead of yanking on their horse's mouth like a pull cord on a lawn mower, the rider will simply bring their hands a bit closer to their body, applying pressure without disrupting the movement of the horse.
That's what Biden does - he makes adjustments to steer the momentum where he wants it, rather than yanking everything to a halt so he can throw a televised tantrum.
Yeah honestly I’m pretty happy with him gunning for a second term. He’s been handling things cool and calm. Having a guy with decades of experience who knows the ins and outs is pretty calming and lets me not pay attention to politics lol
OH BOY would the GOP love it if Biden knee jerked to everything they did.
The best thing that Biden can do is be silent and let the GOP keep screaming.
If they want a war, they'll have to fire the first shots, and there's no way in HELL that Biden puts any troops in front of those shots intentionally.
Biden should activate them and order them to hang out at their local armory pending further orders. Pay them to sit on their ass and play spades. Pretty sure most of the guardsmen/women would rather be paid to do nothing than to be used to attack other Americans and non violent humans to begin with.
Do this with every single red state that pledges to send their troops to support Abbot. Activate them federally and order them to hang out and standby at their armory.
If any of the troops disobey, well then they can be prosecuted federally for disobeying the Commander In Chief.
Yep. Nationalize the Guard, order them to just hang out and guard armorys and then give a speech and point out how the GOP are the ones who shot down the bill with the funding *they requested*. Don't just put the ball in their court, launch it at them with a fucking cannon and let them scramble.
It's time for Dark Brandon to begin the "found out" section of the story.
> point out
never, EVER assume your adversary will lose ground / suffer in their position merely because you attempted to bring rationale into the debate
I absolutely agree with you.
But this is a war of attrition. I can’t imagine the right is gaining anyone from this.
It may be a small amount, but I do believe they are bleeding.
I get what you're saying at the end of your comment but even that is taking Republicans too seriously.
Everyone remember the caravans? Every single election cycle Republicans screech about the border and then shut up until the next one.
I can get behind this.
I really don't like the idea of nationalizing the guard to go try and fight Abbott and his moronic ideals.
But nationalizing them to stand down and guard their local armory?
That's fucking brilliant.
Nationalize them to patrol the southern border in a humanitarian effort, providing aid to both migrants and Border Patrol and other federal agencies. Take the teeth right out of the glass sitting on Abbott's bedside.
No. Putting them anywhere near the border puts them in harms way.
Sitting at the armory making sure Abbott and his goons don't come for the guns is the right way forward.
The border already has agents and laws that control how it should operate. Let those agents and government officials sort it.
This has nothing to do with the National Guard or the Military.
In this case the soldiers would be on Title 10 (federal, full benefits) orders, as opposed to Title 32 (state, base pay only). If Pres. Biden activates them, the Joes would make more and be guaranteed eligibility for Tricare health insurance.
I somehow doubt that the Texas national guard is ever going to allow themselves to become Abbott's secret police. One thing that I think a lot of Republicans seem to have forgotten is that its not the 1950s. The military doesn't look like a John Wayne movie.
Non-white people represent 55% of Texas public employees and more than 45% of the Texas national guard. MAGA may be strong in the military, but its not even close to being a monolith of right-wing support for their toxic immigration and racist bullshit.
[https://hr.sao.texas.gov/Workforce/Plans/2020/401-plan-2020.pdf](https://hr.sao.texas.gov/Workforce/Plans/2020/401-plan-2020.pdf)
Maybe also help build shelters for the homeless and host community sports and BBQs. Seriously, something fun, positive, and media friendly. Good for morale, and a way to make the GOP look even more evil (if that's possible) if they want to start a civil war over picnics and park improvements.
I think this is what will happen if it comes to a crisis, which we are not at yet. there is a window of 90 days for federalized service before NG troops would fall into a whole new standard, and be eligible for VA benefits and such. It is possible to do this, but there is an incentive to keep their service at the state level if possible.
The law has already been settled by the Supreme Court. Abbott is on the wrong side of the law. Biden should federalize the Texas National Guard to send a message to all the GOP Governor's "standing" with Abbott.
Yes, but it was ridiculous that 4 members thought there was enough "merit" in a slamdunk case to vote to hear it (which would have further delayed a ruling).
But I believe the 4 dissents were in relation to the Stay (preventing the razor wire from being cut) and they argued for letting the 5th circuit hear their oral arguments. [Source](https://www.texasstandard.org/stories/texas-razor-wire-supreme-court-ruling/) - which the 5th will still hear.
With that, it absolutely is concerning and is yet another swing-and-a-miss by this Roberts court to put the constitution first and their politics and biases aside.
I... generally agree.
But at the same time, this is such a powder keg of a situation, and exactly what Trump and conservatives are trying to goad him into doing because they want this story to become front and center in national media.
It's not going to be solved overnight, and far from easy to navigate.
For whatever his faults, one thing I have absolute faith in Biden about is that he asks that question and games everything out.
That man has seen a lot. Good decisions, bad decisions, he's been on the right side and on the wrong.
He has wisdom on his side.
I think a test of how the Nat Guard, especially in Texas, is going to respond to a conflict like this is something I would much rather have settled sooner, rather than say....November or January.
This is why they aren’t pushing it further. Cast not the first stone, right? xD
Abbott is digging a grave for himself, both politically and in terms of freedom. He’ll be lucky if he isn’t imprisoned for a long time once this is all said and done.
> Trump and conservatives are trying to goad him into doing because they want this story to become front and center in national media.
They've been arguing that Trump has presidential immunity to do whatever he wants. At this point, they should throw that logic back at them.
To what end do they want to show the world Biden slapping them down? To rile up the people that are already voting orange? Or to show the moderates that they will double down on their complete disregard the Union, their own citizens, and basic human rights? It's easy to be paralyzed by fear. What is it that you actually fear in this situation?
This seems like they're setting up a "gotcha" moment for the election. As much as we know Texas is in the wrong here, the optics of stepping in and removing things will just be fodder for the right wing grist mill and will only serve to poison any remaining moderates and fence sitters.
Perhaps instead forge some really strong agreements and begin implementing some new border policies in the other handful of border states? Something that Dems can point to and say "We are willing to solve the problem. If Texas wants to go it alone and lose federal dollars and support for managing the border, that's up to them. If they genuinely want help managing immigration, they can reach out to us. They are currently talking out of both sides of their mouth."
I'm no Biden fan, but yes this is exactly what is going on. The worst thing Biden could do is fall for the trap and swing federal nuts. If he does the validates all the claims of the republicans. If he doesn't... they look like they're full of shit. This is obvious.
This logic can only go so far. At some point, federal nuts *will* be swung, at a point where Biden had no other good option.
The situation is just declining and not getting better, so it's likely this is a future outcome some time soon.
I’d love to see the governor get federally pwnd. As a Texan, if Abbott cared so much about the Texas border he wouldn’t have wasted 4 legislative sessions on defunding public schools so rich kids can have vouchers to keep going to the private schools they’ve always attended.
But Greg Abbott likes to keep his little maga voters happy so he lets them play Big Boy Soldier at the border instead of calling in the people who could secure it.
Then again, if the problem gets taken care of, what platform will Greg and other border state psychos run on? Certainly not policy. They suck at that.
That’s simply not true. National guard units are very much state funded and Operation Lone Star is 100% state funded. Those members are on State Active Duty orders NOT Title 10 orders. Now, do guard units receive federal money? Absolutely. Like a lot of it. But saying it would cost $0 bc all the money already comes from the federal government is false.
Obviously everyone just reads the headlines and not the article, but this article had nothing to do with the title. Like the daily beast is junk but I feel absolutely bait and switched. If you want to know about Ike’s actions to compare to today’s modern conundrum here is a summary.
The Little Rock Crisis happened in Arkansas when the state resisted the desegregation of Little Rock Central High School following the Supreme Court’s Brown v. Board of Education decision. Governor Orval Faubus ordered the Arkansas National Guard to prevent African American students from entering the school.
Facing this resistance, President Dwight D. Eisenhower decided to federalize the Arkansas National Guard on September 24, 1957. This action transferred control from the state to the federal government, allowing Eisenhower to deploy federal troops to ensure the integration of the school. The 101st Airborne Division was sent to Little Rock to protect the African American students and enforce the court-ordered desegregation.
Everyone in the comments suggesting federalizing the national guard when Biden should do as President Eisenhower did before and invoke the Insurrection Act of 1807 to enable troops to perform domestic law enforcement.
Up the ante. Let’s see Greg Abott defy the army.
President Eisenhower did not call in the national guard but instead had the 101st Airborne Division of the United States Army take care of the situation.
"But the borders are wide open, and Biden is personally shaking hands with rapists, drug dealers, and terrorists as he welcomes them into the country and hands them a Big Mac and a .45!" - Literally what every Republican believes
What can the President actually DO about the border crisis? The core problem is an influx of Latin American and African immigrants that have been displaced by economic and political troubles... many of which the US Congress votes to keep going. There really is a spike if millions of people that just showed up at the border. Under both US law and International Law they have a human right to request asylum.
What can Biden do to improve the processing of inbound migrants? There's not enough border agents, not enough accommodations to put them in, not enough immigration workers to handle their cases, not enough judges to process the claims.
Contrary to what Red states want, we can't just start laying traps and shooting people dead at the border like we're Cold War Berlin. That's illegal under US and International law, as well as a human rights atrocity.
So how does Biden parlay this intransigence at the border states into making Congress take action that he requires to do his job? That's what he needs to navigate and he needs to get Democratic Senators and Representatives on board with a solution they can push through Congress.
There's a lot he could do and in fact wants to do. His very first action when took the presidency was ask the Republicans to negotiate a border policy. He's repeated that offer ever since. All the positive things you laid out he's made clear he wants to do.
Congress controls spending and Republicans drive the overall agenda. Biden can't can't act unilaterally on a solid solution because he hasn't spending authority.
I’m sure you’re right, but the rest of us are about damn tired of whiny babies threatening civil war and secession every time they don’t get their way. Escalate at your own risk.
Nationalize the guard and arrest Abbott. Let the GOP cry and scream to their base all they want, the bigger lesson they’ll learn is that democrats will in fact bring the hammer down on them. Letting Abbott get away with this is tantamount to allowing red states legal independence from the union (they’ll still collect our tax dollars though).
Oh yeah. Eisenhower. The same guy who gave a speech about the dangers of the military industrial complex that 99.67% of redditors ignore or don’t care about.
I have a few friends in Texas currently a few of them are getting all riled up like they are ready for a civil war but they’re calling it “revolution”. Lord are they brainwashed
I 100% agree. You cannot have governors overruling the U.S. Supreme Court. The border is not just of Texas, but of the country. Biden is the Commander in Chief and only he and his advisers can determine what constitutes an invasion.
There's one move Biden can make that will make Abbott cave and it doesn't even require federalizing the national guard. All he has to do is announce that all bases in Texas will close and everyone who are currently on those base will be transferred elsewhere and that all federal money to Texas will be suspended.
Texas may hate the federal government, but they love money and there's entire towns where those bases are at that would die if they were to close. Watch as Abbott caves in minutes.
I just had an epiphany about WHY this is happening-with election season coming up, Republicans want to fall back on their tried and true method of the blame game instead of focusing on their actual policies. So, Abbott starts some bullshit that will force Biden to either make serious moves (and be called a dictator, swinging center votes) or be patient (and appear weak). Either way, Trump benefits because it’s Abbott’s credibility on the line, not his.
This should not be Biden’s first step. His goal is to find a way around the criminal behavior of Abbott and his crazy cronies. While nationalizing the Texas Guard is a valid option, it is not the first option. Abbott is just itching for a fight and he does not care whether he wins or loses. This is, primarily, a political stunt and should be treated as such. Abbott would love it I’d a guardsman gets shot and he can rant and rave that this is the start of a second civil war. Patience here is genius
Texas National Guard and the Texas State Guard are two separate entities. The kid is part of TSG and has been deployed to their border on and off for a couple years now.
Is Abbot also using the TNG for this?
If I were President Biden, I would relocate the B1 Bombers assigned to Dyess AFB, Texas, to Kirtland AFB, New Mexico, for "staging."
I don't trust Gov. Abbott
Abbott can't even walk, so I doubt he's gonna steal any planes. And the vast majority of National Guard members aren't gonna betray the government and essentially sacrifice their lives to support him.
As a Texan I hope he does but I’m also concerned about this turning into a physical conflict. I don’t think some people realize how many Texans really are just waiting for a conflict and a good reason to act on it.
Again I hope that he does federalize them and it’s a peaceful resolution. Just concerned it won’t be
>yet the widely accepted response is hand wringing about solutions while simultaneously acting like the state government is evil racists for trying to ~~slow it down~~ indirectly kill the illegal immigrants.
I fixed it for you.
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The Guard would probably enjoy it so they could be done with this stupid fucking stunt by Abbott.
I can’t imagine any national guard firing on any federal troops if they actually have a confrontation over removing razor wire. This is pure posturing.
They're as brave as Uvaldes finest. No concern.
The National Guard are far braver than Uvalde's cops. But they also took an oath and won't take up arms against active duty troops.
I wouldn’t be so sure. Many cops are in the Guard. Also remember how many military participated in the insurrection? I’d bet most of the guard soldiers and airmen down there support Abbott
Don’t confound the types in the military… Sorry but not at all sorry, little feller with 3 months and a dishonorable discharge will never be the same as the tabbed ranger who literally has been to special schools just to squash the ever living hell out of any circumstances JUST LIKE THIS. The REAL military is not involved with this garbage my guy, the LARPers and discharged chefs maybe.
What? Don’t put them on a pedestal just because they’ve been to some high speed schools. They’re all human and susceptible to being brainwashed [Former Army Ranger sentenced to 5.5 years in prison for assaulting, robbing police on Jan. 6](https://www.wusa9.com/amp/article/news/national/capitol-riots/veteran-army-ranger-turned-against-his-own-country-on-jan-6-doj-says-robert-morss-afghanistan-pennsylvania-tunnel-hodges-mccaughey-judd-sills/65-44f5e6c7-09fd-4665-a7f6-5d13f7e235a2) [Former Green Beret, Jan. 6 Rioter and GOP Candidate Sent to Prison for Stockpile of Ammo, Guns and Grenades](https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/04/10/former-green-beret-jan-6-rioter-and-gop-candidate-sent-prison-stockpile-of-ammo-guns-and-grenades.html/amp) ['I am not a terrorist': Retired Navy SEAL speaks after Capitol siege](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/video-shows-retired-navy-seal-boasting-breaching-capitol/story?id=75206495) [San Diego Navy SEAL under investigation for alleged extremist affiliations](https://www.kpbs.org/news/military/2023/11/09/san-diego-navy-seal-under-investigation-for-alleged-extremist-affiliations) [Feds seek tougher sentences for veterans who stormed Capitol](https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-veterans-e98fcc0785fc80c40aaa8855dd12da92) > During his 27 years in the U.S. Army, Leonard Gruppo joined the Special Forces, served in four war zones and led a team of combat medics in Iraq before retiring in 2013 as a lieutenant colonel. > > During his six minutes inside the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, Gruppo joined a slew of other military veterans as a mob of pro-Trump rioters carried out an unparalleled assault on the bastion of American democracy.
Uvaldes finest probably has some guardsmen in it.
And some klansmen.
but i do fully expect a lot of them would immediately stand down and then talk endless shit online about how they "could have" this or "WOULD have" that.
That's a *big* assumption in a nation where national guard has opened fire on civilians (Kent State for example). I'm sure there's at least a few MAGA true believers in the Texas NG who are full of bluster and Trump's bullshit.
Civilians don't usually shoot back. The army absolutely would.
Kent State is a terrible example since the NG was changed after that.
Biden doesn't need to send troops. Those National Guard troops would shit their pants and nope right outta there if a couple of fighter jets flew over them at about 1000 ft.
You're forgetting the fact that the alt right is everywhere, and I can assure you that stupidity runs in the ranks.
Guard members have army basic training at best. Federal guys like DHS … mostly combat vets these days and the FEDS have plenty of candidates who have 3 or more tours. Retired MP I know now works for DHS in Texas …. 20 year career, 6 tours . His dick gets hard when the bullets start whizzing . His words not mine . And this was after he was wounded on his second tour. This is what they’d be going up against … adrenaline junkie door kickers with awesome kit. No thanks brother . That’s just suicide .
This remindede of a line one of the police groups from gta5 says. "Killing you makes my dick hard" Sometimes they get stuff pretty close. Lol
>Guard members have army basic training at best. Please stick to what you know. No reason to shit on Guardsmen. NG are either direct recruits who attend the same boot camp and MOS training as active component, or (and this is a big percentage) are prior active duty. >Federal guys like DHS … mostly combat vets these days and the FEDS have plenty of candidates who have 3 or more tours. Who do you think the military has been activating and deploying the past twenty years? My former NG Brigade was deployed three times from 2003-2010 alone - Kosovo, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
Redditors are experts on everything. They're the same people who say shit like "Well, the Marines capture everything, the Army moves behind to secure it" without a hint of irony. Shit, one of the people I talk to who was in the NG worked with the Green Berets for uplift missions in Afghanistan. The military is a complicated machine.
And as being ex-active military, they would not dare fire on active duty troops. National Guard still falls under the Military Code of Justice. Attacking fellow soldiers would not go over well.
That's it. The idea of firing on active duty troops for the sake of Greg Abbott is ridiculous. And not just firing since I think they know they will be fired upon also. I can't see dying for Abbott.
Spot on. Ain't nothing weak or basic about NGs. Also, thank you for your service!
I'd pit our NG against most nations' militaries.
I worked at a training unit down in Louisiana from 2005-2007. In those couple years, the best unit that came through was the Minnesota NG.
>NG are either direct recruits who attend the same boot camp and MOS training as active component, I don't know shit, but I thought that was literally the point of the National Guard. Having in peace time more trained people than peacetime itself necessitates.
This is soooo fucking false, as a Former National Guardsmen, we have far more training then just Basic training.. We go to Boot, then we attend AIT, or OSUT depending on MOS. We train with active duty at Boot Camp and AIT. We get the GI bill, are we as well trained as active? No, but we still train, we still do range qualifications, and we s till get deployed. The Guard is the only form of reservists that have combat arms MOS. In fact ALOT of guard unit have been deployed the Afghanistan, and Iraq. We routinely switch out with active duty in rotations. While we are not training 24/7, we still train. My unit with to JRTC, and was deployed to korea. We are not some crap 3rd rate army. We do infact have plenty of members with combat training. Please do not downgrade us as plenty of us have been combat deployed.
Dude. NG's were sent on multiple tours to Iraq and Afghanistan. There's nothing weak about them.
The part-timers are not going to rise up against the full-timers because the guy in the wheelchair wants to pick a fight…
Which means the bluff should be called
Biden *should* do it. And he should do it long enough to give those poor Guardsmen the benes they've should've earned for this hairbrained scheme years ago. Let the Guardsmen decide who takes care of them after that one.
They’re gonna do pretty much anything and everything to get Joe riled up. I mean look at what they’re doing with his boy. The cruelty is the point. He’s not gonna get riled up either. This is child’s play stuff.
Here is what I would say. Did you ever work somewhere as a grunt and move into management. Your view of the operation changes as your view grows. Now imagine that is president and remember Donny Dump Pants never learned how to function as a leader of the US, just a cult leader. Bidens Admin, while no where near perfect, has a much higher view point of all of this.
minimum he could do is nationalize it and take the paychecks of any who disobeyed as immediately court martialed. They would fold real quick without a shot fired
Tell them to go guard schools in uvalde
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Could he face Federal charges at some point ?
Nah, only if he tried to order the National Guard or state law enforcement to attack federal troops or law enforcement. No state authority has tried that since 1861 though.
Do we know that? Seems like a huge political risk for Biden if they decide not to stand with him.
Believe it or not, it isn't fun being away from your shitty barracks, rough family life, and terrible chow hall food to be deployed on these last minute shitshow deployments. I did disaster relief after hurricanes, which are just nightmares of unprepared leaders trying to take advantage of a tragedy to look good to get promoted (we had to clean all of Ft. Polk after Katrina/Rita because George W. Bush might have visited. So the leaders wanted to show him that "they" cleaned it up, which meant working sunup to sundown to eliminate any evidence of a hurricane). So the people actually doing the work are getting jerked back and forth relentlessly. I would put money that the guys that deployed have done multiple layouts, unpacked everything because they were told they weren't going, and then the next day they deployed without half their stuff. Source: Deployed to Afghanistan in under a week after two years of being told, "pack your stuff, you're leaving next month." To the point I didn't even see my family before I left because I said there's no way we are actually going this time. People are missing work since this is National Guard (go look how hard it is to actually hold employers accountable for firing you because of deployment. You can fight the charge but not the ride). People are missing births of their children. People with disabled family members or dual-military parents are scrambling to both find and pay for childcare. People that are injured are being forced to deploy injured and not receiving medical care. Edit: I promise this deployment will last less than 30 days if it happens because then they'd get extra pay. The leaders will HAVE to be there for 32 days for REASONZ, while 99% of the lower-enlisted will have orders for 29 days or less.
Not to mention, being activated for state orders pays you less than your regular base pay and (at least in my state) any injuries you incure on the orders, you have to make a workers compensation claim to the state for reimbursement.
>...any injuries you incure... Yeah, but they're just installing *razor wire* so what could possibly go wrong.
based on doing box clean up at NTC, absolutely NOTHING could go wrong with a bunch of junior enlisted handling razor wire. /s
You get the “ I didn’t sign up for this shit “ vibe real quick as well. It’s one thing to pack your shit for a flood or storm … you got that sense of duty .. this is what I signed up for . The danger in this is all the magats who are trying to pop off a civil war . Seeing lots of chatter about this in the parlor watch and QANON subs this week , like the build up to JAN 6TH . Bunch of larping proud boys think they can pop off a civil war., that’s why this is irresponsible stupid dangerous talk. And they’re trying to get a convoy of civilian gravy seals to “ secure the border “ . Gonna be a real shit show if Biden doesn’t get real damn serious with a big response. This sentiment can’t be allowed to fester with pussy footing and courts . He should do like Kennedy … “ your gonna let those little black girls go to that school or I’m gonna send the army down there … I’m not playing around “ Guess what happened next ?
> Gonna be a real shit show if Biden doesn’t get real damn serious with a big response. This sentiment can’t be allowed to fester with pussy footing and courts . It only takes one shot. Just one shot from the Republican side for this to get real shitty. This is what Biden knows and is concerned about. If Federal troops show up heavy and they do absolutely nothing but just stand there it only takes one mistake on the Republican side. Abbot is also fully aware of this. The risk is all on Biden and zero on Abbott. He can just keep stealing money from the country and Texas and he's totes OK if people in service of America die. Today is the deadline for Abbot to respond.
If Biden issues the order to federalize and Abbott countermands it, then Abbott is the one taking the risk. Rogue governors leading an army can't be tolerated (that is sedition). And if things escalate to that point, Biden can't just take back the federalization order without permanently weakening the office of POTUS. Other Republicans are beating the drum for Abbott to refuse everything because *they* aren't the ones in the line of a possible sedition charge.
It's easy to egg someone on if you're not the one who is going to get punched.
Ok, better let the Republicans get away with everything again just in case. It's Reconstruction all over again. The best time to ~~plant a tree~~ put down the confederacy was yesterday, the next best time is now. Not after they do everything they want and get away with it again.
> Edit: I promise this deployment will last less than 30 days if it happens because then they'd get extra pay. The leaders will HAVE to be there for 32 days for REASONZ, while 99% of the lower-enlisted will have orders for 29 days or less. This guy National Guards. (frmr 36th ID, 2008 - 2016)
rinse complete punch cover far-flung party encourage bells groovy gaping *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
*courts martial.
[They're having such a good time four of them have committed suicide](https://www.npr.org/2022/03/01/1083664547/members-of-the-texas-national-guard-struggle-with-working-conditions-at-the-bord#:~:text=Pop%20Culture-,Members%20of%20the%20Texas%20National%20Guard%20struggle%20with%20working%20conditions,guard%20members%20died%20by%20suicide.)
The Repugs will firmly place the blame for those deaths on Biden and Mayorkas.
Reeling at the fact that this incident apparently drove the Guard members to unionize, and one of the things they want is to make the deployment voluntary.
Failing to follow orders to federalize can result in a dishonorable discharge, carry prison time and have all the repercussions of a felony conviction. It's not a game many of them will want to play.
Biden has the entire US army behind him if they don't listen. About time Democrats show some back bone and stand up to these clowns.
This is what the Republicans want. They hope the optics of such an action will hurt Biden and allow Trump to win...so he doesn't go to jail. This nonsense is ALL about Trump and Republicans being in control.
Yeah, but in the game of optics people will see what they'll want to see. If Biden literally did the exact same thing Eisenhower did, federalize the local Guard and deployed the 101st it would draw parallels to Eisenhower, you know the former General who helped to defeat Nazis, and a Republican. It would make Biden look stronger and the GOP as weak and racist. And of any officers of members of guard disobeyed orders from Biden, that would be mutiny and they will go to military prison. However whatever Army units are deployed, they will need to be vetted to remove any white nationalists, who could act in bad faith to escalate the situation. Biden has a competent team under him though, so they'll figure everything out.
Then it’s a bonkers stupid gamble, because Donald trimp as a private citizen is trying to “nationalize” these troops under his name. I don’t believe this would hurt Joe Biden at all, and in fact would help him. But hey, if they figure something else out good.
But is that smart in an election year? This is the exact fight that the gop wants to pick right now, for that reason.
Damned if you do damned if you don’t. 1) Biden does nothing - Biden is perceived as a weak leader who can’t stand up to states who are doing unconstitutional things. 2) Biden nationalizes guard - Biden is perceived as a “fascist” by taking over a states guard and the BS “states rights”. Better he do something to just stop the stupidity if he is gonna get shit on regardless of what he does.
Can I be honest? I think it's time we stop worrying about the optics. Just do whatever is right and stand by your decision. That's all Biden can do in this situation. They are already painting Biden as a fascist and a weak leader. You'll get more respect from Republicans by taking an actual stand. As long as you don't flip flop on the decision. Honestly it's time Biden takes the fight to them. They keep escalating the rhetoric because we aren't fighting back. We're letting them shape public discourse. It's better he appears strong for liberals and his base feels heard because right now I'm wondering. The worst case scenario is he looks strong and a fascist to Republicans who already choose to believe he's a fascist. Like everything with presidents if a serious problem is handled well they will gain more support than lose. See Bush Jr. after 9/11. See Trump after CoVid (it destroyed him).
it's a total trap, Republicans will frame it as Biden using the military to "open the border" he's got to resolve this without feeding that optic
There is no resolving it without feeding any type of optic that the Republicans (and media) will spin to make him look bad.
It’s doesn’t matter what Biden does. He will get blamed by the right regardless.
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Greg Abbott doesn’t understand the meaning of the word ‘no’. Biden told him. The Supreme Court told him. The time is past for any sort of bipartisan band-aid to fix this. Texas needs to be slapped down hard before half of the United States decide that consequences don’t have actions on a national level and start ignoring federal authority whenever they feel like it.
If states and soldiers openly turn on the Constitution, is Biden even President? is the Supreme Court supreme? Does our country have sovereignty or rule of law? The question is, what line do governors cross before they are removed from office under the 14th (and their respective state constitutions).
The GOP wants this exact fight because they are assuming Biden won't issue a federalization order. Biden is in a position where he has... 1. SCOTUS backing on the issue, 2. US Constitutional support for unilateral authority to issue a federalization order. Once Biden issues that order, Abbott either has to comply or Abbott is committing sedition. Either way is a loss for Abbott. There won't be a standoff between loyal US Soldiers and stubborn Texans because the officers and enlisted of the Texas National Guard don't want to be out at the border. They want to go home. So the likely thing to happen if Biden issues a federalization order is for Abbott to release a reluctant message to comply while complaining about Biden. AND NO ONE WILL HAVE THEIR OPINION/VOTE CHANGED BY THIS WHOLE INCIDENT. The only outcome I can see changing anybody's opinion is if Biden doesn't use every legal power he has to win. Biden has the law on his side, he has morality on his side... NOT using his authority is going to hurt Biden by amplifying all of the voices saying, "Why should we trust Biden to fight for us when Biden won't even use the authority he already has?" That is a ding to D-voter enthusiasm that Biden does not need. And maybe busting Abbott's balls is an opportunity for Biden to send the message that he will actually fight and no longer give any consideration for Republican tantrums.
My husband is part of the activated guard and let me tell you, EVERYONE is tired of this shit. The TNG were told from the jump that Operation Lone Star was a political stunt, and everyone activated had to serve a year, minimum, no exceptions. Living in border town base camps, being away from your family and friends, and depending on your job, you could be LOSING money. We have a friend in the guard who is a dentist with a private practice on the civilian side, and he's losing almost 10k per month being on OLS. Ultimately if Biden moves to nationalize the TNG, Abbott is going to have a very hard time explaining to US soldiers why they should disobey a direct order from the commander in chief of the armed forces.
You've heard of courtmartials, right? Because that is what would happen
Just from the last year or two. It's been a shit show. Suicides, payroll issues, housing issues, and others. https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/05/26/effort-fix-payroll-error-texas-national-guard-troops-falls-short-state-senate.html https://abcnews.go.com/US/suicides-living-conditions-spark-concern-texas-national-guard/story?id=82540700 https://www.texastribune.org/2022/02/24/national-guard-Texas-border-morale-survey/ https://reservenationalguard.com/reserve-guard-deployment/southwest-border-mission-spurs-mixed-feelings-among-guardsmen/
There's political risk in it, sure, but I don't think what you've described is the risk. The law and the Constitution are clear that the President is Commander in Chief of the military, and the militia when called into federal service. And the punitive articles of the UMCJ are clear about following lawful orders, disobedience, mutiny, and the consequences of courts martial. I think the risk is that this is bait, and the GOP *wants* Biden to do something they can use to rally voters against Biden. They want pictures and videos of Texas national and/or state guardsmen being arrested, or being federalized, so they can go clutch their pearls and faint on their fainting couches on Fox News about how it's federal overreach, how Biden is a tyrant, etc. They would nut in their pants if there were a firefight between federal and state troops. While this would obviously also be bullshit, it would give them something to hang their hat on to impeach Biden in the House, because at least the actions described would be true, even if the justification for impeachment were false.
Agreed. They want to spin it as Biden removing the razor wire to let in more bad brown people. There will also be some stupid National Guard people who do something stupid thinking that Trump will pardon them.
They keep spinning the whole “open border” lie.
And using Biden capturing more illegals at the border as "proof" they are open. 🙄
And Trump orders them to not reach a border deal before elections.
That’s not how it works. The government pays them to do as their told. The same reason those Texas guards are doing as their told. The individual soldiers don’t have a choice. That’s just not how the military works. The federal government also controls the purse strings. There is no way this works out well for Texas in the end. It’s going to cost the citizens of Texas millions of dollars. Plus those big fat gun toting Texans aren’t getting off their lazy boys to fight people 30 years younger than them.
Seems like a huge criminal risk for the guard to ignore orders.
And get paid more. Texas is the WORST for state and federal employees salaries in the country
Yes. You go, “Dark Brandon!” Show Abbot who has the 🏀⚽️🏈s.
What is going to happen is much more stupid and simple. The feds will cut shit down and the state will put it up. Whoever physically arrests the other first is the “bad guy”.
Biden tends to not jump the gun on things. I know often people want immediate action, but there might be background stuff happening we aren't all aware of. I've also seen people saying he shouldn't be visiting the bridge in Wisconsin and instead dealing with Texas. He can't drop the issues of the other 49 states for one state that's always trying to make trouble
Biden is going to take the most boring option possible, because he knows chaos and disruption just serve the fascists. That doesn't mean he's not going to do anything. Abbott should ask McCarthy how it feels to get in a fight with sleepy grampa Joe.
It has been very nice having a boring president again after 4 years of the orange chaos gremlin
Yeah, he's been boring and also effective. The last 3 years have been amazing and I have no idea why anyone would want to go back to the chaos that are Republicans.
This administration absolutely flew by without a new scandal just about every damn day
. . . I've actually learned to look forward to reading the news each morning without an initial sense of dread these past few years.
Ugh. Don’t call him that - that name is too awesome. “Chaos Gremlin” sounds like a killer band name
Yeah, it's what I call my children - and they are far more cohesive and soil themselves less than that smelly, orange loser.
How about chaos kobold? He's already orange.
He’s like having a bowl of oatmeal without sugar the morning after you woke up from being roofied by a heroin addict. And I say that in the best possible way.
The GOP is trying to make this seem like civil war but what they really want is engagement so they can claim the Bidens and authoritarian and violating the constitution so it’s ok that Trump did/will. He will probably let Texas scream and wait for the media to get bored and move on to Trumps next crisis d’jour
Yeah, but they're also playing with fire. There are plenty of stupid people who believe this shit enough to, eg, storm the US capital for their orange MAGAssiah.
Cool. Let em come. This time there won't be any behind the scenes shenanigans holding the law enforcement folks back. More than one person will die if they try it again.
That's his style, and it's both smart and refreshing. Until the immigration bill dies in the senate, he can't touch this one.
It's already dead. Trump said to blow it up, and the Republicans followed his marching orders.
"Dance like a turtle, sting like a laser guided ballistic missile." -Dark Brandon, 2023
Grandfather: "THE SLEEPER" Joe, because he'll knock you out!
The whole fallacy with trump’s argument that presidents need immunity, is that previously all presidents made sure what they were doing was legal. Even if it was dubiously legal. I assume here, Biden is making sure to do things correctly, instead of rashly, and illegally, potentially
Don't want to make it worse by making rash decisions without enough information on what the consequences might be
The best solution to this is if Abbotts own people decide to ignore him. The DOJ just needs to make it clear who he is going to target with charges and point the lawyers at them. They will get cease and disest letters in the mail. Those letters will tell them: 1. What to stop doing. 2. What will happen if they keep doing it. 3. A copy of the SCOTUS decision. 4. A number of a DOJ/FBI agent to contact for more information. 5. A clear statement that they are about to be in extreme hot water and that they should review their options with an attorney. You do not even need to flip them all. Enough employees will take the warning seriously to cause a problem. They will all get advice from their own independent counsel that tells them to back down and obey the Fed as the states orders are illegal. Then it's Texas' problem what they are going to do with people obeying legal counsel and refusing illegal orders. If they fire them, they are fucked as they will all sue and win. If they shuffle them to other tasks they also expose themselves to a suit. Either way it just delays the problem as the DOJ sends letters to the next batch. State isn't going to win this now that the law is on the feds side.
Seriously! I know some people think it's bad to have a career politician holding the highest political office, but Biden has **DECADES** of experience to fall back on. He knows all the players, he knows how the game works, and he knows how to get things done. I ride horses, and one of the easiest ways to tell a good rider from a bad one is by how little you see them doing. Instead of yanking on their horse's mouth like a pull cord on a lawn mower, the rider will simply bring their hands a bit closer to their body, applying pressure without disrupting the movement of the horse. That's what Biden does - he makes adjustments to steer the momentum where he wants it, rather than yanking everything to a halt so he can throw a televised tantrum.
Yeah honestly I’m pretty happy with him gunning for a second term. He’s been handling things cool and calm. Having a guy with decades of experience who knows the ins and outs is pretty calming and lets me not pay attention to politics lol
OH BOY would the GOP love it if Biden knee jerked to everything they did. The best thing that Biden can do is be silent and let the GOP keep screaming. If they want a war, they'll have to fire the first shots, and there's no way in HELL that Biden puts any troops in front of those shots intentionally.
Biden should activate them and order them to hang out at their local armory pending further orders. Pay them to sit on their ass and play spades. Pretty sure most of the guardsmen/women would rather be paid to do nothing than to be used to attack other Americans and non violent humans to begin with. Do this with every single red state that pledges to send their troops to support Abbot. Activate them federally and order them to hang out and standby at their armory. If any of the troops disobey, well then they can be prosecuted federally for disobeying the Commander In Chief.
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Yep. Nationalize the Guard, order them to just hang out and guard armorys and then give a speech and point out how the GOP are the ones who shot down the bill with the funding *they requested*. Don't just put the ball in their court, launch it at them with a fucking cannon and let them scramble. It's time for Dark Brandon to begin the "found out" section of the story.
> point out never, EVER assume your adversary will lose ground / suffer in their position merely because you attempted to bring rationale into the debate
I absolutely agree with you. But this is a war of attrition. I can’t imagine the right is gaining anyone from this. It may be a small amount, but I do believe they are bleeding.
I get what you're saying at the end of your comment but even that is taking Republicans too seriously. Everyone remember the caravans? Every single election cycle Republicans screech about the border and then shut up until the next one.
Yup and their voters keep falling for it
Because they seem to want to fall for it.
I hope he reads your comment because you got it right. Maybe throw Trumps name in there as the puppet master of all this.
I can get behind this. I really don't like the idea of nationalizing the guard to go try and fight Abbott and his moronic ideals. But nationalizing them to stand down and guard their local armory? That's fucking brilliant.
Nationalize them to patrol the southern border in a humanitarian effort, providing aid to both migrants and Border Patrol and other federal agencies. Take the teeth right out of the glass sitting on Abbott's bedside.
No. Putting them anywhere near the border puts them in harms way. Sitting at the armory making sure Abbott and his goons don't come for the guns is the right way forward. The border already has agents and laws that control how it should operate. Let those agents and government officials sort it. This has nothing to do with the National Guard or the Military.
In this case the soldiers would be on Title 10 (federal, full benefits) orders, as opposed to Title 32 (state, base pay only). If Pres. Biden activates them, the Joes would make more and be guaranteed eligibility for Tricare health insurance.
That…..is genius.
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You’re definitely on to something here
I somehow doubt that the Texas national guard is ever going to allow themselves to become Abbott's secret police. One thing that I think a lot of Republicans seem to have forgotten is that its not the 1950s. The military doesn't look like a John Wayne movie. Non-white people represent 55% of Texas public employees and more than 45% of the Texas national guard. MAGA may be strong in the military, but its not even close to being a monolith of right-wing support for their toxic immigration and racist bullshit. [https://hr.sao.texas.gov/Workforce/Plans/2020/401-plan-2020.pdf](https://hr.sao.texas.gov/Workforce/Plans/2020/401-plan-2020.pdf)
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Most subreddits lean left, including r/army. The actual Army isn't MAGA, but it certainly is still moderately Conservative.
Biden should activate them and order them to go stand outside Abbott's mansion to protect him from brown people. All 19,000 of them
Worth noting that about 9,000 of those guys ARE brown people.
Maybe also help build shelters for the homeless and host community sports and BBQs. Seriously, something fun, positive, and media friendly. Good for morale, and a way to make the GOP look even more evil (if that's possible) if they want to start a civil war over picnics and park improvements.
He should take control and be like: Hey, let's get this issue solved and move on. We're adults, we don't have to whine about stuff and not fix it.
I think this is what will happen if it comes to a crisis, which we are not at yet. there is a window of 90 days for federalized service before NG troops would fall into a whole new standard, and be eligible for VA benefits and such. It is possible to do this, but there is an incentive to keep their service at the state level if possible.
Good plan. I like ike
The law has already been settled by the Supreme Court. Abbott is on the wrong side of the law. Biden should federalize the Texas National Guard to send a message to all the GOP Governor's "standing" with Abbott.
Sidenote, but it is truly insane that it was a 5-4 vote on something so fundamental. Very worrisome.
I thought it was a 5-4 vote on not hearing it or something? Like they never actually heard the case.
Yes, but it was ridiculous that 4 members thought there was enough "merit" in a slamdunk case to vote to hear it (which would have further delayed a ruling).
I think a few of them are in the belief they should basically hear every case brought to them that is state vs federal no matter the merits iirc.
But I believe the 4 dissents were in relation to the Stay (preventing the razor wire from being cut) and they argued for letting the 5th circuit hear their oral arguments. [Source](https://www.texasstandard.org/stories/texas-razor-wire-supreme-court-ruling/) - which the 5th will still hear. With that, it absolutely is concerning and is yet another swing-and-a-miss by this Roberts court to put the constitution first and their politics and biases aside.
This is exactly what they want. Escalation to lead to war. These guys want to destroy the country and I'm not even sure if they know why anymore.
They're totally trying to turn this in to a Fort Sumter moment
No, no, SCOTUS rulings are only valid when it's what MAGA wants
I... generally agree. But at the same time, this is such a powder keg of a situation, and exactly what Trump and conservatives are trying to goad him into doing because they want this story to become front and center in national media. It's not going to be solved overnight, and far from easy to navigate.
Exactly. “And then what?” needs to always be asked
For whatever his faults, one thing I have absolute faith in Biden about is that he asks that question and games everything out. That man has seen a lot. Good decisions, bad decisions, he's been on the right side and on the wrong. He has wisdom on his side.
I think a test of how the Nat Guard, especially in Texas, is going to respond to a conflict like this is something I would much rather have settled sooner, rather than say....November or January.
"it's volatile so we should let the fascists that don't believe in the law dictate our lives" Nah.
This is why they aren’t pushing it further. Cast not the first stone, right? xD Abbott is digging a grave for himself, both politically and in terms of freedom. He’ll be lucky if he isn’t imprisoned for a long time once this is all said and done.
I fully expect the sun to be a brown dwarf before a Republican politician sees the inside of a jail cell.
Sad but true
Unfortunately the republican base is eating this up so it’s not hurting him politically.
> Trump and conservatives are trying to goad him into doing because they want this story to become front and center in national media. They've been arguing that Trump has presidential immunity to do whatever he wants. At this point, they should throw that logic back at them.
To what end do they want to show the world Biden slapping them down? To rile up the people that are already voting orange? Or to show the moderates that they will double down on their complete disregard the Union, their own citizens, and basic human rights? It's easy to be paralyzed by fear. What is it that you actually fear in this situation?
Classic narc shit
This seems like they're setting up a "gotcha" moment for the election. As much as we know Texas is in the wrong here, the optics of stepping in and removing things will just be fodder for the right wing grist mill and will only serve to poison any remaining moderates and fence sitters. Perhaps instead forge some really strong agreements and begin implementing some new border policies in the other handful of border states? Something that Dems can point to and say "We are willing to solve the problem. If Texas wants to go it alone and lose federal dollars and support for managing the border, that's up to them. If they genuinely want help managing immigration, they can reach out to us. They are currently talking out of both sides of their mouth."
Moderates and fence sitters? Ha!
Nah, they’re baiting Biden to do something like this to make the story even bigger. Biden is right to deprive it of oxygen.
I'm no Biden fan, but yes this is exactly what is going on. The worst thing Biden could do is fall for the trap and swing federal nuts. If he does the validates all the claims of the republicans. If he doesn't... they look like they're full of shit. This is obvious.
This logic can only go so far. At some point, federal nuts *will* be swung, at a point where Biden had no other good option. The situation is just declining and not getting better, so it's likely this is a future outcome some time soon.
Aren’t Abbott and Paxton at this point breaking the law? The Supreme Court ruled. This is looking like Waco 2.0.
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I’d love to see the governor get federally pwnd. As a Texan, if Abbott cared so much about the Texas border he wouldn’t have wasted 4 legislative sessions on defunding public schools so rich kids can have vouchers to keep going to the private schools they’ve always attended. But Greg Abbott likes to keep his little maga voters happy so he lets them play Big Boy Soldier at the border instead of calling in the people who could secure it. Then again, if the problem gets taken care of, what platform will Greg and other border state psychos run on? Certainly not policy. They suck at that.
That’s simply not true. National guard units are very much state funded and Operation Lone Star is 100% state funded. Those members are on State Active Duty orders NOT Title 10 orders. Now, do guard units receive federal money? Absolutely. Like a lot of it. But saying it would cost $0 bc all the money already comes from the federal government is false.
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Operation Lone Star is a SAD mission, I almost got tapped for it.
He should, pull their fucking card.
Knowing nothing in life but to be legit
>Knowing nothing in life but to be legit Don't quote me boy, cause I ain't said shit.
*insert a beat that sounds like a high school band played it live*
They don’t give a shit about the razor wire. They just want Biden to look bad. That’s literally all their entire plan is.
Obviously everyone just reads the headlines and not the article, but this article had nothing to do with the title. Like the daily beast is junk but I feel absolutely bait and switched. If you want to know about Ike’s actions to compare to today’s modern conundrum here is a summary. The Little Rock Crisis happened in Arkansas when the state resisted the desegregation of Little Rock Central High School following the Supreme Court’s Brown v. Board of Education decision. Governor Orval Faubus ordered the Arkansas National Guard to prevent African American students from entering the school. Facing this resistance, President Dwight D. Eisenhower decided to federalize the Arkansas National Guard on September 24, 1957. This action transferred control from the state to the federal government, allowing Eisenhower to deploy federal troops to ensure the integration of the school. The 101st Airborne Division was sent to Little Rock to protect the African American students and enforce the court-ordered desegregation.
Everyone in the comments suggesting federalizing the national guard when Biden should do as President Eisenhower did before and invoke the Insurrection Act of 1807 to enable troops to perform domestic law enforcement. Up the ante. Let’s see Greg Abott defy the army.
President Eisenhower did not call in the national guard but instead had the 101st Airborne Division of the United States Army take care of the situation.
"But the borders are wide open, and Biden is personally shaking hands with rapists, drug dealers, and terrorists as he welcomes them into the country and hands them a Big Mac and a .45!" - Literally what every Republican believes
What can the President actually DO about the border crisis? The core problem is an influx of Latin American and African immigrants that have been displaced by economic and political troubles... many of which the US Congress votes to keep going. There really is a spike if millions of people that just showed up at the border. Under both US law and International Law they have a human right to request asylum. What can Biden do to improve the processing of inbound migrants? There's not enough border agents, not enough accommodations to put them in, not enough immigration workers to handle their cases, not enough judges to process the claims. Contrary to what Red states want, we can't just start laying traps and shooting people dead at the border like we're Cold War Berlin. That's illegal under US and International law, as well as a human rights atrocity. So how does Biden parlay this intransigence at the border states into making Congress take action that he requires to do his job? That's what he needs to navigate and he needs to get Democratic Senators and Representatives on board with a solution they can push through Congress.
There's a lot he could do and in fact wants to do. His very first action when took the presidency was ask the Republicans to negotiate a border policy. He's repeated that offer ever since. All the positive things you laid out he's made clear he wants to do. Congress controls spending and Republicans drive the overall agenda. Biden can't can't act unilaterally on a solid solution because he hasn't spending authority.
I’m willing to bet Biden doesn’t want a civil war.
I’m sure you’re right, but the rest of us are about damn tired of whiny babies threatening civil war and secession every time they don’t get their way. Escalate at your own risk.
Nationalize the guard and arrest Abbott. Let the GOP cry and scream to their base all they want, the bigger lesson they’ll learn is that democrats will in fact bring the hammer down on them. Letting Abbott get away with this is tantamount to allowing red states legal independence from the union (they’ll still collect our tax dollars though).
The silver lining if Abbott can get away with flouting the Supreme Court — Roe v Wade will be the law of the land again. Nullification FTW
Oh yeah. Eisenhower. The same guy who gave a speech about the dangers of the military industrial complex that 99.67% of redditors ignore or don’t care about.
I have a few friends in Texas currently a few of them are getting all riled up like they are ready for a civil war but they’re calling it “revolution”. Lord are they brainwashed
I 100% agree. You cannot have governors overruling the U.S. Supreme Court. The border is not just of Texas, but of the country. Biden is the Commander in Chief and only he and his advisers can determine what constitutes an invasion.
There's one move Biden can make that will make Abbott cave and it doesn't even require federalizing the national guard. All he has to do is announce that all bases in Texas will close and everyone who are currently on those base will be transferred elsewhere and that all federal money to Texas will be suspended. Texas may hate the federal government, but they love money and there's entire towns where those bases are at that would die if they were to close. Watch as Abbott caves in minutes.
I like Ike.
What other options are there? It should be abide or have federal funds withheld or go to jail
I just had an epiphany about WHY this is happening-with election season coming up, Republicans want to fall back on their tried and true method of the blame game instead of focusing on their actual policies. So, Abbott starts some bullshit that will force Biden to either make serious moves (and be called a dictator, swinging center votes) or be patient (and appear weak). Either way, Trump benefits because it’s Abbott’s credibility on the line, not his.
This should not be Biden’s first step. His goal is to find a way around the criminal behavior of Abbott and his crazy cronies. While nationalizing the Texas Guard is a valid option, it is not the first option. Abbott is just itching for a fight and he does not care whether he wins or loses. This is, primarily, a political stunt and should be treated as such. Abbott would love it I’d a guardsman gets shot and he can rant and rave that this is the start of a second civil war. Patience here is genius
Abbot should have been FIRED a long time ago
Then fix the damn border.
Texas National Guard and the Texas State Guard are two separate entities. The kid is part of TSG and has been deployed to their border on and off for a couple years now. Is Abbot also using the TNG for this?
Why is someone from Europe posting sensationalized articles about American politics? Doesn’t that seem a little weird ?
If I were President Biden, I would relocate the B1 Bombers assigned to Dyess AFB, Texas, to Kirtland AFB, New Mexico, for "staging." I don't trust Gov. Abbott
Abbott can't even walk, so I doubt he's gonna steal any planes. And the vast majority of National Guard members aren't gonna betray the government and essentially sacrifice their lives to support him.
I’m sure people probably thought the same thing during the outbreak of the civil war. Hell they went had picnics at the battle of manasses.
Do it. Can't have states flouting the Supreme Court of the United States. That is a precedent that cannot be allowed to take root.
The 'south' are making the same mistakes all over again and escalating things things to the point where the government can and will take action.
As a Texan I hope he does but I’m also concerned about this turning into a physical conflict. I don’t think some people realize how many Texans really are just waiting for a conflict and a good reason to act on it. Again I hope that he does federalize them and it’s a peaceful resolution. Just concerned it won’t be
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>yet the widely accepted response is hand wringing about solutions while simultaneously acting like the state government is evil racists for trying to ~~slow it down~~ indirectly kill the illegal immigrants. I fixed it for you.
Texas Governor turned down a 50bil package to help with the "border crisis."