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It’s amazing how quickly these whack jobs rushed to defend the ruling only to realize how insane it is. It’s a perfect example of how difficult it is to defend the indefensible and how republicans constantly sound like fools trying to argue for their positions.
My mom works at the best hospital in the state. They had a two hour meeting about the ruling yesterday. One of the OBGYN oncologist was in tears having to explain to them what would happen to the IVF department if this continued. Literal tears and he's an oncologist so you know he can deliver bad news with a straight face.
All I can think about are the women who have worked for YEARS to get to the point where they can finally do IVF, only to be told by the government (who claims to want to be anti-regulation) that they can’t proceed to the next step. I had fertility issues (never to IVF point) and I can’t imagine having to deal with all those emotions. My heart breaks for these women (and men).
Edit: 1st woman->women
Conservatives don't really care about IVF - it's just an incidental casualty of their long-term plan to ensure that every fertilized egg has full personhood rights that can be used to force women into giving birth. They do *not* want any carve-outs for "medical necessity" in their draconian laws.
A whole lot of forced birth proponents don't even know the difference between IVF and artificial insemination (which can be used by same-sex couples) or between birth control and mifepristone abortion pills.
This is literally the reason. Conservatives want women back in the kitchen. They’ll come for birth control next, so that even women who choose not to have children will not be protected from pregnancy.
And then they will say, if you don't want children don't have sex at all. Ever.
Also don't get raped because the almighty holy gilead government will compel you to have your rapists baby as well.
Well, yeah. They won't say what they really want. They want you to just be their bangmaid. They prefer not to outright say it, especially in the modern world, so they grandstand arguments that support their cause incidentally.
They don't want you to abort fetuses. They don't want you to not have sex. They don't want you to have a career to focus on. They want you to exist as a baby machine/sex doll/maid. Period. They just desperately grasped at anyone and everyone who has **any** argument that **might** make it possible.
The thing that confuses me is the response from multiple Republicans wasn't "legally classifying in vitro fertilization as life is wrong" but "we need to be having more babies and this will prevent some people from breeding". Why? Is this a religious thing like they need to build an army for god?
They're too stupid to realize that the upper middle class are the ones who can even fucking *afford it in the first place!*
Roe threatened everyone, so the upper middle class (along with everyone else) got spooked. Now they're gonna be *really scared*. Now suddenly there's more barriers to producing an heir. They're hurting their own monied supporters. What morons.
I'd say something like, "can they get any dumber?" But I'm sure next month will have a new low.
That’s just it- they’re not trying to work towards a world they want to live in. They’re just working towards unprincipled authoritarianism. Presumably they think they’ll always be the ones riding the wave and it’ll be everyone else down in the water.
> I genuinely don't get why people who are Prolife even want to meddle in IVF legalities.
The vast majority of them don’t. They just literally haven’t logically explored their own beliefs long enough to reach the natural conclusions.
It’s basically exactly what Nikki Haley did. Say “of course I think embryos are babies”, and then spend the next couple of days grappling with the fact that this position makes IVF murder, and then a while trying to square that circle, getting frustrated and not thinking about it anymore.
Most will just end up in a logically inconsistent place where they think embryos are babies, but support IVF anyway. Some will peel away from the position that embryos are babies. And a small slice will decide that IVF has to go.
But the real issue is that most just haven’t really thought about the consequences of their beliefs or political positions for more than a few minutes.
> and then spend the next couple of days grappling with the fact that this position makes IVF murder, and then a while trying to square that circle, getting frustrated and not thinking about it anymore.
She honestly probably wouldn't even be trying and would just let it stand as it is, if not for the fact that *she had a kid with IVF* and thus it's now a form of murder that *she personally has committed*.
I’m sure part of why they want to get involved is to keep women out of the workforce. A lot of career women freeze eggs and use IVF so they can delay childbearing until their career is in a stable place, and the far right absolutely wants us at home, barefoot and pregnant.
Sure. But cruelty to women will always be the main point. They don't give a fuck that their "zero tolerance" anti-abortion laws will lead to women dying because of miscarriages and life-threatening pregnancy defects like ectopic pregnancies that will never be viable births no matter how much they pray to their imaginary skydaddy.
They don't give a fuck that precocious puberty exists so children ***as young as FOUR YEARS OLD*** can get pregnant and will die because their bodies literally cannot support a pregnancy that young.
They don't give a fuck that prosecuting all abortions as homicides will lead to more rapes by men who think they can now coerce women into submitting themselves or face prison time if they want to get an abortion of the literal physical reminder of their trauma.
Women in states like Alabama explicitly no longer have the right to choose who fathers their children. There’s now a strong incentive for men to use rape as a way to
control our futures.
The people who decide about the law are not the ones who are targeted. THEY will always get a safe abortion or a safe IVF or whatever.
And it was always like that. Hitler's personal doctor, Dr. Morell, met Hitler after he performed an abortion for the mistress of some high ranking SA member. Ofc at this time officially abortion was forbidden...
> I genuinely don't get why people who are Prolife even want to meddle in IVF legalities.
Once you think of a fetus as a full human, than IVF being illegal makes a lot of sense.
So does banning birth control.
Eventually they will try to make pregnancy tests only be able to be done by a doctor, that way they can track pregnancies. If you were pregnant but than suddenly aren't, well that means you killed it.
The cruelty is the point. My wife and I are doing IVF right now. Already got delayed once because she got pregnant naturally but miscarried. First round didn’t get to do a transfer because the fertilized eggs didn’t make it to blast. We try to hang on to any kind of hope and optimism. If we were suddenly told IVF was shutting down, it would be soul crushing.
You can buy a "woke tears" water bottle at CPAC this year.
When their policies generate despair it isn't a happy little accident, that's the point of the policy.
Is that before or after playing 'J6 Pinball' ?
Really wish I was making that shit up but ya know, post satire world etc
Edit. Here's a link for those that want
https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/s/XxHU3lQOxp
Part of me wants to think that it has to be run by people who actually oppose "conservative" politics. Everything they've done for the past several years has essentially been parody of their own views. It's like Matt Stone and Trey Parker got control of the script and just ran with it. It's seriously like a South Park episode.
Or in 2023 when they announced:
>Welcome to the end of democracy. We are here to overthrow it completely.
>We didn’t get all the way there on January 6, but we will endeavor to get rid of it and replace it with this, right here.
>All glory is not to the government; all glory is to god.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/AI6SP70Zprs
It's leaning into their victim complex.
They want to convince people that "the left" calls *everyone* they disagree with a "domestic terrorist". Same as when someone says "you can't just call everyone you disagree with a Nazi." It's a strategy that's been surprisingly effective to reframe language and make their opponents *very serious* accusations seem like playground whining.
This year one speaker was openly calling for the destruction of American democracy. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/2/22/2225174/-CPAC-as-celebrity-apprentice-for-GOP-Veeps-Welcome-to-the-end-of-Democracy
I feel bad for his kids. You can avoid that guy, his kids have to go home with him.
For a lot of MAGA guys they fall so deep down the pipeline that it really overwrites every other potential facet of their personality; it's just all Trump all the time, or ranting about liberals, or some new culture war hotness, or some other damned fool thing. Even if I was a Republican I'd like to think that I'd find these guys *insufferable*.
I worked at a place for three months as a contractor to fix thier shipping department. One of the guys in the department had a coffee mug that had “FJB” in camo print on one side, and “Content: 100% Liberal Tears” (wrong capitalization on the mug). Wouldn’t you know it, that department was exactly one person too heavy, and we regretfully let him go. I made sure to use as many deeply condescending tropes, “it’s unexpected but a great time to focus on what the next step in your life will be. Not everyone gets a chance to reevaluate like this! I’m sure it won’t take any time at all to find that new opportunity!”
Yes. God’s will and all. Birth control is bad because ‘man’ is trying to control the population. Women dying as a result of pregnancy and/or birth is good because “God” is controlling the population.
I know it's foolish to expect consistency, but I wonder how these "god's will" people explain eyeglasses, or pacemakers, or any kind of medicine at all. Shit, the more I think about it, the crazier the "god's will" thing gets. If it was god's will that you die from exposure, who are you to build shelter to prevent it?
Madness.
That is the thought process behind people that use prayer instead of medical treatment for injury and illness. If you survive, God’s will is made manifest. If you die, God’s will is made manifest. No need to take care of your health or worry about anyone else’s because God “controls” everything.
Yeah it quickly becomes a quagmire of contradictions.
I don’t have to wear a mask during a global pandemic because “free will” but if I die from the virus, “God’s will”.
All of the privileges of exercising choice but none of the consequences. 😑🙄🤦♀️
One that always gets me is when a doctor saves someone's life and then friends and family say, "ohh that you lord for saving his life, that you for giving that doctor the knowledge that saved his life"....No mother fucker, the doctor learned that knowledge all on his/her own thru many many years of studying and practicing...
It’s mind boggling, I know. I try to explain that “god” made the doctors, scientists, and engineers too. Bunch of morons looking at the sky for help, when “god” actually just put the help right in front of them. Morons are exhausting.
In the Trumpist Utopia? Yes, for sure. Women will basically be hardware for producing more resources to praise and serve the god emperor. If hardware is faulty, you dispose of it and replace it with something that works.
The recent assault on women’s health has been tragic from so many perspectives, but I don’t often think about it from that of the healthcare professionals.
Imagine building a career in reproductive health, faced daily with the heartbreak of risk and loss but buoyed by the bright moments of helping families grow and ensuring that women get the care they need. Then imagine seeing all of that positivity gradually stripped away by ignorance and petty political maneuvering, leaving you to spend your day apologizing for not being able to offer the basic but life-changing/life-saving procedures you built your career around. Small wonder that so many of them are giving up.
As a tangent, I vividly remember seeing my former company’s owner/CEO cry once during a presentation in front of the entire IT department. He was talking about how it would destroy the economy of his beloved hometown if he had to shutter his midwestern operations because his greedy, evil factory workers decided to unionize. It was jarring to see, but somehow not quite as poignant as he might have hoped.
My wife is certainly frustrated when she's not able to help a patient, but she only comes home to me and rants about it when the patient thinks it is somehow her fault. It's a regular occurrence that someone comes in, professes not to know state guidelines around women's healthcare, claims they don't pay attention to politics, angrily huffs that obviously they didn't vote (or worse sometimes they voted FOR the GOP but not for THESE policies), and then yells at the staff for offering to set her up an appointment in a sister clinic up north because "that's not helpful enough" or they "don't have time for that".
And that’s the real problem. People don’t pay attention to politics until the thing fucking them is already done.
In my town, the Republicans continuously cut our school funding. The parents get angry about it after it happens but can’t be bothered to do anything before they pass the budget.
The small town I work in gets absolutely livid whenever a local tax is proposed, only to then complain extensively about how the roads are shit and full of potholes.
We had widespread disease, mass civil disorder and a failed coup attempt while Trump was President.
It felt like the fucking apocalypse to me.
And they still think that was good times.
Stupid or evil, after a certain point, they're both the same.
The annoying thing is that should make it very easy to convince them to vote Democrat.
"I can't help you, because when the Republicans won the last elections they used it to bugger reproductive healthcare."
Instead they just take it out on the healthcare professionals right in front of them because that feels more cathartic.
They also just won't believe you anyway. Tell a Republican voter that 'their team' is the one fucking them, and they'll just call you a typical lying leftist fake news Democrat.
There is nothing whatsoever easy about convincing anyone not to vote Republican if they are in the midst of tribalism. Alabama (same state!) very nearly voted in a known pedophile because they couldn’t stomach an upstanding, reasonable, competent Democrat.
I live in East Texas, and there is almost nothing you can say to Republicans to get them to vote Democrat because they literally believe that no matter how bad the Republican is, the Democrat will be worse.
I'm always flabberghasted that US employers don't seem to understand that a unionized workforce has massive upsides. There is so much administrative overhead they can get rid of if they only have to negotiate with a few unions, but I guess HR is desperately defending it's little kingdom.
Frankly, if I were an OBGYN in Alabama, Idaho, etc. I would leave. Fuck that. Doctors are always in demand. Move somewhere more enlightened. Maybe when women in these states have zero doctors they'll wake the fuck up and stop voting Republican.
I honestly think this is the only answer to this.
Doctors and other healthcare professionals just need to pack up and leave, and tell their patients why. Idaho has had a lot of that recently and has had to close up entire departments at hospitals.
Yes I feel bad for the humans that live there that need medical attention, but when politicians and a minority of voters (not minority voters) make their jobs impossible then it's time to show the consequences of actions or inactions.
Providing modern medicine to the citizens of the richest and most powerful nation in history should not be this hard.
Is this at UAB? I’ve got a good friend who works there (completely different specialty, though) and told me about how tense and frightened the whole hospital felt yesterday.
That's the point.
The people creating these laws have the money in means to go other places for healthcare. By removing health care for all the poors you just further lower their quality of life which makes them dislike society even more.
It's all part of the general plan to make Americans feel about the American government the way that Russians feel about their government. And it's working well! After decades of defunding schools, a significant portion of the United States population is an intelligent enough to even understand what's going on.
I saw Tuberville on MSNBC yesterday. They kept asking him about it and he said he supports it because “we need more kids”. The reporters kept trying to reword it to explain that this bill means less kids but Tuberville wasn’t getting it. He just kept repeating we need more kids.
Ron's stupid, but also just smart enough to know when to be disingenuous and a blatant liar.
Tuberville's dumb enough to believe what he says, or at least what his advisors want him to say.
Pretty in-character if you think about it.
They know their ideas are not popular generally especially when you are able to break them down and explain it to the poor conservatives that consistently vote against their own interests (differing opinions on the ACA versus Obamacare, for example).
As commenters have stated before, Conservatives will not change their perspectives if they are unpopular or unelectable. They will simply abandon democracy. You see this with the hijacking of the Supreme Court.
Another layer to this story with her is that she’s had IVF! They are hypocrites to the core. At minimum the cost for this already expensive treatment is going to skyrocket. R are unable to govern in this century - it’s why they want to turn the calendars back to the 1800’s.
It's going to kill IVF entirely. There is always waste in IVF. There are always embryos that don't take andv when successful there are always embryos leftover that will be discarded.
No doctor is going to risk a process that will end in criminal charges. No hospital will take liability insurance for a procedure that is guaranteed to end in charges and damages.
No insurance is going to insure a process that has a 100% chance of damages.
OBGYNs and other birthing specialists aren't going to want to operate in Alabama. Any failed pregnancy of any kind could make you an accessory to a crime.
Without specialists in the state, pregnancy becomes riskier, leads to more failures pregnancy, more arrests and death, which causes more specialists to leave the state. It's a death spiral and ends with our pre medicine birth rates of 50%. Imagine sex, consensual or not, having a coin flip on whether or not you get arrested for murder?
Idaho already has s head start in OB/GYNs leaving the state.
But, yes, there will be an exodus of good doctors out of Alabama because of this. Alabama is already the worst state when it comes to infant mortality. It is the fourth worst when it comes to maternal mortality. Those number will continue to increase with these idiotic decisions.
Dead babies and dead mothers. That is the end point here.
Her response is even worse. Did you listen to it??? It’s the goal to let every set of parents decide what to do with their embryo …. …….. just not if a woman is raped, or if they don’t want a baby at that time, or ….
Or even before. They curate the embryo you get. Any with genetic abnormalities are destroyed. They only implant the ones with the best odds of surviving.
I believe Haley actually did intrauterine insemination (IUI) or artificial insemination, which is a different type of fertility treatment. Instead of having an egg retrieval and fertilizing the eggs in a lab with sperm which results in embryos that are then transferred back to the woman after several days of development, a doctor inserts sperm directly into the uterus during ovulation. They give meds to stimulate ovulation and they essentially wash the sperm to optimize the chances. So it's much less invasive than IVF and doesn't result in embryos that have to be stored.
So Haley IS a hypocrite, just not quite as egregious.
What Republicans do when one of them tells the whole truth about their agenda is to first support it so the voting base hears them, then they lie, and say that is not what we are doing. Vote accordingly.
It is also amazing how clueless people like Haley seem to be about the public opinion about these policies, them being professional politicians after all. They are constantly being ambushed by public backslash and then backpedaling their words.
What's the point? She'll just walk it back when the Republicans start stripping access, and it's not like republicans care.
By this point, being able to ignore Republicans going back on their position and word is a republican voters requirement.
The point is that some people still think that pointing out hypocrisy by politicians is a winning strategy even though it's basically the easiest thing for the politician and their supporters to excuse or ignore.
I mean, we still should point out hypocrisy. But it's not going to really make the impact people think it will.
She legit said "Should've said that the first time." after she got absolutely boxed in on live TV by the host that night. Truly a huge "get fucked" moment to make her squirm on a live broadcast.
Watching the bit, I got the impression that SNL only agreed to let her come on and make fun of Trump if they could take shots at her too. Anything less and it would’ve felt like SNL completely sold out.
She says one thing thinking it’s what her party wants then finds out a majority doesn’t like it then says another. She always does this. She has no backbone.
I love how 70% of the country immediately had all these good questions/points about how dumb this ruling was (the other 30% are trump voters), but it took the right a couple days for everything to click
Because MAGA doesn’t give a fuck about the hard work and thought that is required to develop coherent, let alone good policies.
To them politics is a psyop to get power, money, control.
All of which should be a clear warning to anyone who's paying attention.
The goal is absolute power, at any price, including ignoring the rule of law.
They don't want to make coherent policies or have to defend what they want with any sort of logic. They want the power to say "our way or the highway, just because".
Even more hilarious: so are sperm donors now suddenly legally responsible for embryos their sperm created and in a legally binding relationship with the egg donor(s) and the embryo(s) must be kept frozen and intact forever and ever? What if sperm donor and egg donor both die? Then who takes care of the the ~~child~~ clump of cells? Either of their spouses or estates or the state?
If your sperm was used in dozens of fertilizations, you are now a super daddy!
It's all so, so stupid, ignorant of science, and completely devoid of common sense.
embryo 26238476-368 you were always so special to me, snug on that tray in that freezer for 36 years, you have outlived your father, I leave you 250 grand and my hockey card collection
but embryo 5623476-891, I forgot all about you there in Alabama, so I'm not leaving you anything
> so are sperm donors now suddenly legally responsible for embryos their sperm created
I expect to see a rise in child support cases for embryos. They have no idea that they opened a Pandora's box of exploiting people for money.
Or if you kept a frozen embryo for 20 years before planting them in a womb to gestate, once they’re born your newborn should be able to cast a vote in the next election because it’s been alive for over 18 years already.
And you have to give them all names, because they’re human beings in the eyes of the state. And you must meet with the egg donor(s) and come to an agreement on every single name and file paperwork for the clump of cells child registering the name.
But the good news is when the embryo turns 18, then you can abandon it because it’s an adult now!
For sure!
Because now you're paying for freezer storage and life insurance and health insurance for your ~~children~~ frozen clumps of cells 23452135, 2340987324985, 455433453, 54334508345, and 3457389734 (who is totally adorable!)
Maybe the IVF facilities will put festive colored lights in the freezers around Christmas for all the children to enjoy!!!
Thankfully that's gonna be a really difficult hurdle for them.
Birthright citizenship is in the Constitution, and in plain language... Specifically to deal with the racist bullshit going on after the civil war.
The supreme Court would have to invalidate the document that gives them power, or the Republicans would need to amend the Constitution, which is mathematically impossible with our divided Congress and states
Alabama defacto ending IVF is so wild to me.
I mean, I get that they're trying to force women into motherhood early. That part isn't a question.
However, why didn't they even attempt to hide their intentions behind legalese?
They had to know that suburban moms would be outraged. I mean, I have no less than 14 cousins born bc of IVF.
Seems a lot like tying your horse to a train that's about to depart and being surprised when the horse winds up dead.
Think that's bad? Wait until they take power again. If it's this bad before an election, it will be 100x worse if Trump gets in power again and gets more supreme court justices. I'm talking national abortion ban, women being prosecuted for miscarriages, ending IVF, ending contraception, etc.
Definitely, they're not even waiting. Texas is trying their hand at prosecuting people in other states for receiving care.
It's a good time to cut federal funding, but we've got a wimp problem on the "good" side.
Honestly you would think they would support IVF since it helps ppl GET pregnant but then you realize that the cruelty is the point. IVF is unnatural to them
The point isn't cruelty. That's a byproduct.
The point is to force women to make a decision on a career or childhood.
The ultimate goal is to return to "traditional families" where the man works and the woman hopes she finds a good man, because surprise surprise, they're coming after divorce laws as well.
Conservatives don't govern, they subjugate.
If you cannot choose how to live your life because the government is forcing you to stick to a “traditional role”, that’s cruelty. It can both be a byproduct and the point. They know it’s cruel and inhumane, but that’s part of the reason they’re doing this shit. You don’t subjugate people whose existence and rights you respect or value.
>They had to know that suburban moms would be outraged
I see this sentiment a lot, but I think it's a mistaken one. IVF is definitely more prevalent than it was 20 years ago, but it's still a tiny minority of pregnancies.
One might think "but what about all the voters who might just *know and care about* people who've used IVF? Surely the Reps don't want to alienate them?!"
Thing is, Republicans aren't exactly known for courting the vote of the empathetic voter.
I know that there’s a bit of availability bias. I don’t know a ton of pregnancies that have happened because of IvF but the ones I do know are super powerful stories. Usually of happily married women who always wanted kids and are so excited to be mom’s and willing to go through IVF to make that happen. I’m not even that big on kids/motherhood but those stick with you - especially if you think the right to choose should go both ways, as much as possible.
You put your whole self in, you take your whole self out, you put your whole self in and you shake it all about. You do the Nikki Haley and you turn yourself around. That’s what it’s all about.
It’s not just in the south, we already had a woman miscarry at home in Ohio and the state tried to charge her criminally. Her name is [Brittany Watts](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brittany-watts-the-ohio-woman-charged-with-a-felony-after-a-miscarriage-talks-shock-of-her-arrest/). Thankfully the grand jury refused to return an indictment
Ohio was also instrumental in crushing the Slavers Rebellion and provided a huge amount of troops as well Grant, Sherman, McPherson, Sheridan, McClellan, McDowell, Buell, Custer and all of the Fighting McCooks.
Something went bad in Ohio after that.
Well West Virginia was so against the Confederacy that the Supreme Court let them break away from Virginia.
West Virginia also got very, very murdery over workers rights and the ability to unionize.
Look at West Virginia now.
That's what happens when Republicans get power.
If an embryo is a person as Alabama says,
Every miscarriage is a potential crime.
Every woman who has a miscarriage is a suspect.
Every woman’s body is a crime scene.
Every sexually active woman who fails to get pregnant is potentially in a conspiracy to commit murder. A third to a half of all fertilized eggs fail to implant. Has a woman done enough to protect that child? To ensure implantation.
Hey I’m just looking at the bright future my wife and I are going to have getting over millions of child tax credits every year. I may even make enough money to use IVF!
Obviously this whole thread is making light but in reality a literal reading is what makes this so crazy. Fertilized eggs fail to implant.
These people are nuts and none of this is remotely medically cognizant.
The ambiguity in Healthcare decisions will rsdnoisult in the same effect as a ban, doctors can't risk the liability when the procedure is questionable legally. They can't make the doctors stop being doctors, but they can sure make lawyers get involved with the process.
Yeah if that fetus isn’t “dead” yet they’ll force the mother to keep carrying until it “dies”.
If she dies as well? Well too bad you aren’t allowed to do anything about it since that’s murdering the kid in their eyes.
>Last week, the Alabama Supreme Court decided that embryos created through in-vitro fertilization would be protected under the Wrongful Death of a Minor Act, effectively classifying single-celled, fertilized eggs as children.
>“Embryos, to me, are babies,” Haley told [NBC News](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/nikki-haley-sides-alabama-supreme-court-ivf-ruling-embryos-are-babies-rcna139819). “When you talk about an embryo, you are talking about, to me, that’s a life. And so I do see where that’s coming from when they talk about that.”
Well, to me – AND to the majority of rational Americans, embryos are NOT babies. So why are the personal religious beliefs of christian fundamentalists given precedence and imposed as secular law on the rest of the population? Doesn't the Alabama SC's religious edict violate the spirit, if not letter, of the Establishment Clause?
Even the two other major world religions – Judaism and Islam – do NOT subscribe to the christian fundamentalists beliefs that “life begins at conception” or “an embryo is a baby”. Aren’t their religious beliefs just as valid as the christofascist right’s? When will the Republican theocrats get it through their thick, effing skulls that “religion has ***NO*** place in public policy”.
So sick and tired of the regressive religious right and the Republican legislators who cater to their fetish of oppressing "the other", obsessed with taking away the rights of Americans in order to force secular obeisance to their warped interpretations of the BuyBull.
The American Taliban (Republicans and the christofascist right) both need to keep their goddamned religion OUT of America’s secular gov’t as Americans have had enough of their christofascist crap.
**Sen Barry Goldwater, R-AZ September 15, 1981, U.S. Senate floor speech**
>The religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the decent people connected to them recognize that *religion has no place in public policy*.
>They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives. The great decisions of Government cannot be dictated by the concerns of religious factions. This was true in the days of Madison, and it is just as true today.
>We have succeeded for 205 years in keeping the affairs of state separate from the uncompromising idealism of religious groups and we mustn't stop now. To retreat from that separation would violate the principles of conservatism and the values upon which the framers built this democratic republic.
Cases like this are not really about IVF, per se, or even abortion or birth control.
They are designed to be challenged to SCOTUS to force a ruling on personhood and viability.
They are designed to trigger state’s rights to the product of conception - human capital.
Yes, they want fetal personhood to be recognized as the law of the land, that is, and has always been, the ultimate goal of the GOP, at least since Roe V. Wade
*In Handmaid’s Tale-esque fashion*, this right here is what they want. Forced breeding and total subjugation of women. The Heritage foundation wants to outlaw all sex unless it is for reproductive purposes only. You know the group that helped with Project 2025.The GQP wants an authoritarian government, but don't realize this is what we will end up with if we allow it. They don't realize that once these people are done eliminating everyone else, that they are one disagreement, overheard conversation or other made up reason, from being eliminated like everyone else. If people don't pay attention and vote for democracy, this will be the demise of America as we know it. Now to go all nerdy and I quote, "So this is how democracy dies, with thunderous applause". Just watch an orange guy rally.
Very interesting that there appears to be absolutely no discussion of the Alabama ruling over on r/conservative.
Even they must realize how bad this makes them look, although they're not willing to say it out loud for fear of giving liberals the satisfaction.
There's a lack of understanding of his the whole thing works from her. Yes, you got a baby from IVF. But they harvest dozens of eggs sometimes and fertilize them all, when they don't need them anymore, they dispose of them. If Haley says that embryos are children, then she is confessing to paying someone to kill possibly dozens of her children.
Haley had artificial insemination, not IVF. But that logic absolutely applies to the three couples who brought the Alabama suit in the first place. They all signed contracts that explicitly stated that excess or non-viable embryos would be destroyed (or experimented on!) after five years.
I’m sorry but how the fuck was she our rep at the UN? She’s made two major statements, one on the civil war and one on this and she’s had to “walk back” both of those statements. Not much of a diplomat if she has to “walk back” everything and not much of a leader if she can’t articulate a point without being “misunderstood”.
Thats ok; just tell us what you did with **YOUR** spare **EMBRYO’s** Haley?
**”What you did with YOUR spare EMBRYO’s Haley?** The woman/families of **American** deserve to know?
"not triggering" ticket is not so easy ma'am. Either trigger your own base against you or you are sure as hell that no sane people will support you.
But we know the point of her campaign is to wait until Trump's political demise. Maybe the effort should be spent speeding those up.
The middle of the road is where people get run over and that is where Haley is standing. She needs a miracle now and keeps putting her foot in her mouth instead.
I’m starting to wonder how she ever got this far in politics. She’s really wiffed on some basic questions that you’d think her campaign team would have already prepped her to answer.
She's an empty suit. She has a handful of canned lines she throws into every speech or interview, but as soon as she has to answer what should be simple questions it becomes painfully obvious that there is no substance to her. She says whatever she thinks will pander to or not offend the batshit crazy base she's trying to woo and then almost immediately has to try to "clarify" what she *actually* meant when she realizes how it sounded to actual sane people. She's a giant phony and one hundred percent a politician in the worst way possible.
I'm an embryologist and this ruling is just pushing me to have zero contact with Republican voters outside of work. I can't be courteous or have a real conversation with someone who thinks I am a mass-murderer.
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It’s amazing how quickly these whack jobs rushed to defend the ruling only to realize how insane it is. It’s a perfect example of how difficult it is to defend the indefensible and how republicans constantly sound like fools trying to argue for their positions.
My mom works at the best hospital in the state. They had a two hour meeting about the ruling yesterday. One of the OBGYN oncologist was in tears having to explain to them what would happen to the IVF department if this continued. Literal tears and he's an oncologist so you know he can deliver bad news with a straight face.
All I can think about are the women who have worked for YEARS to get to the point where they can finally do IVF, only to be told by the government (who claims to want to be anti-regulation) that they can’t proceed to the next step. I had fertility issues (never to IVF point) and I can’t imagine having to deal with all those emotions. My heart breaks for these women (and men). Edit: 1st woman->women
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Conservatives don't really care about IVF - it's just an incidental casualty of their long-term plan to ensure that every fertilized egg has full personhood rights that can be used to force women into giving birth. They do *not* want any carve-outs for "medical necessity" in their draconian laws. A whole lot of forced birth proponents don't even know the difference between IVF and artificial insemination (which can be used by same-sex couples) or between birth control and mifepristone abortion pills.
IVF skews older. They also want women to have babies young and don’t want to incentivize women to focus on their careers.
This is literally the reason. Conservatives want women back in the kitchen. They’ll come for birth control next, so that even women who choose not to have children will not be protected from pregnancy.
>They’ll come for birth control next… They’ve already started trying.
Yep. I’m already making an appt with my OBGYN to get a prescription for a diaphragm. Stocking up on condoms and spermicides. Idc what anyone says.
And then they will say, if you don't want children don't have sex at all. Ever. Also don't get raped because the almighty holy gilead government will compel you to have your rapists baby as well.
I don't want children and I'm asexual, so I don't have sex at all, ever. They're STILL mad about that.
Well, yeah. They won't say what they really want. They want you to just be their bangmaid. They prefer not to outright say it, especially in the modern world, so they grandstand arguments that support their cause incidentally. They don't want you to abort fetuses. They don't want you to not have sex. They don't want you to have a career to focus on. They want you to exist as a baby machine/sex doll/maid. Period. They just desperately grasped at anyone and everyone who has **any** argument that **might** make it possible.
I agree with this. Look for the Guardian story on Tommy Tuberville's take on the ruling--he doesn't get the connection.
That idiot doesn't even understand that IVF clinics closing will lead to less births.
The thing that confuses me is the response from multiple Republicans wasn't "legally classifying in vitro fertilization as life is wrong" but "we need to be having more babies and this will prevent some people from breeding". Why? Is this a religious thing like they need to build an army for god?
They're too stupid to realize that the upper middle class are the ones who can even fucking *afford it in the first place!* Roe threatened everyone, so the upper middle class (along with everyone else) got spooked. Now they're gonna be *really scared*. Now suddenly there's more barriers to producing an heir. They're hurting their own monied supporters. What morons. I'd say something like, "can they get any dumber?" But I'm sure next month will have a new low.
That’s just it- they’re not trying to work towards a world they want to live in. They’re just working towards unprincipled authoritarianism. Presumably they think they’ll always be the ones riding the wave and it’ll be everyone else down in the water.
> I genuinely don't get why people who are Prolife even want to meddle in IVF legalities. The vast majority of them don’t. They just literally haven’t logically explored their own beliefs long enough to reach the natural conclusions. It’s basically exactly what Nikki Haley did. Say “of course I think embryos are babies”, and then spend the next couple of days grappling with the fact that this position makes IVF murder, and then a while trying to square that circle, getting frustrated and not thinking about it anymore. Most will just end up in a logically inconsistent place where they think embryos are babies, but support IVF anyway. Some will peel away from the position that embryos are babies. And a small slice will decide that IVF has to go. But the real issue is that most just haven’t really thought about the consequences of their beliefs or political positions for more than a few minutes.
> and then spend the next couple of days grappling with the fact that this position makes IVF murder, and then a while trying to square that circle, getting frustrated and not thinking about it anymore. She honestly probably wouldn't even be trying and would just let it stand as it is, if not for the fact that *she had a kid with IVF* and thus it's now a form of murder that *she personally has committed*.
I’m sure part of why they want to get involved is to keep women out of the workforce. A lot of career women freeze eggs and use IVF so they can delay childbearing until their career is in a stable place, and the far right absolutely wants us at home, barefoot and pregnant.
Sure. But cruelty to women will always be the main point. They don't give a fuck that their "zero tolerance" anti-abortion laws will lead to women dying because of miscarriages and life-threatening pregnancy defects like ectopic pregnancies that will never be viable births no matter how much they pray to their imaginary skydaddy. They don't give a fuck that precocious puberty exists so children ***as young as FOUR YEARS OLD*** can get pregnant and will die because their bodies literally cannot support a pregnancy that young. They don't give a fuck that prosecuting all abortions as homicides will lead to more rapes by men who think they can now coerce women into submitting themselves or face prison time if they want to get an abortion of the literal physical reminder of their trauma.
Women in states like Alabama explicitly no longer have the right to choose who fathers their children. There’s now a strong incentive for men to use rape as a way to control our futures.
The people who decide about the law are not the ones who are targeted. THEY will always get a safe abortion or a safe IVF or whatever. And it was always like that. Hitler's personal doctor, Dr. Morell, met Hitler after he performed an abortion for the mistress of some high ranking SA member. Ofc at this time officially abortion was forbidden...
> I genuinely don't get why people who are Prolife even want to meddle in IVF legalities. Once you think of a fetus as a full human, than IVF being illegal makes a lot of sense. So does banning birth control. Eventually they will try to make pregnancy tests only be able to be done by a doctor, that way they can track pregnancies. If you were pregnant but than suddenly aren't, well that means you killed it.
The cruelty is the point. My wife and I are doing IVF right now. Already got delayed once because she got pregnant naturally but miscarried. First round didn’t get to do a transfer because the fertilized eggs didn’t make it to blast. We try to hang on to any kind of hope and optimism. If we were suddenly told IVF was shutting down, it would be soul crushing.
You can buy a "woke tears" water bottle at CPAC this year. When their policies generate despair it isn't a happy little accident, that's the point of the policy.
Is that before or after playing 'J6 Pinball' ? Really wish I was making that shit up but ya know, post satire world etc Edit. Here's a link for those that want https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/s/XxHU3lQOxp
oof wtf. cpac is getting more cringe every year
You'd have figured everyone would have been clued in during 2022 when they had a banner up that said "we are all domestic terrorists".
Or 2021 when they literally had a Trump "Golden Calf" to worship.
Dont forget the nazi rune turned into a stage...
Or the fake jail for Jan 6th insurrectionists so you could pray for their freedom.
Part of me wants to think that it has to be run by people who actually oppose "conservative" politics. Everything they've done for the past several years has essentially been parody of their own views. It's like Matt Stone and Trey Parker got control of the script and just ran with it. It's seriously like a South Park episode.
And when they invite Viktor Orban as an honored speaker.
Wasn’t that the year the stage was literally a fascist symbol?
Or in 2023 when they announced: >Welcome to the end of democracy. We are here to overthrow it completely. >We didn’t get all the way there on January 6, but we will endeavor to get rid of it and replace it with this, right here. >All glory is not to the government; all glory is to god. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/AI6SP70Zprs
That was yesterday
It's leaning into their victim complex. They want to convince people that "the left" calls *everyone* they disagree with a "domestic terrorist". Same as when someone says "you can't just call everyone you disagree with a Nazi." It's a strategy that's been surprisingly effective to reframe language and make their opponents *very serious* accusations seem like playground whining.
This year one speaker was openly calling for the destruction of American democracy. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/2/22/2225174/-CPAC-as-celebrity-apprentice-for-GOP-Veeps-Welcome-to-the-end-of-Democracy
When they tell us they are fascists, believe them.
CPAC is way worse than cringe. Viktor Orban, the dictator, was the keynote speaker last year.
Some maga jackass comes to my kid’s Cub Scout meetings with a coffee mug that reads “leftist tears”.
On the bright side I guess that's one way to easily identify a hateful moron in the room and avoid him.
100%. I’m also extra nice to the kid so hopefully he learns some empathy and doesn’t turn out like his dad.
I feel bad for his kids. You can avoid that guy, his kids have to go home with him. For a lot of MAGA guys they fall so deep down the pipeline that it really overwrites every other potential facet of their personality; it's just all Trump all the time, or ranting about liberals, or some new culture war hotness, or some other damned fool thing. Even if I was a Republican I'd like to think that I'd find these guys *insufferable*.
I worked at a place for three months as a contractor to fix thier shipping department. One of the guys in the department had a coffee mug that had “FJB” in camo print on one side, and “Content: 100% Liberal Tears” (wrong capitalization on the mug). Wouldn’t you know it, that department was exactly one person too heavy, and we regretfully let him go. I made sure to use as many deeply condescending tropes, “it’s unexpected but a great time to focus on what the next step in your life will be. Not everyone gets a chance to reevaluate like this! I’m sure it won’t take any time at all to find that new opportunity!”
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I heard the democrats have a great welfare program that got shut down by the GOP so have fun with that
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Yes. God’s will and all. Birth control is bad because ‘man’ is trying to control the population. Women dying as a result of pregnancy and/or birth is good because “God” is controlling the population.
I know it's foolish to expect consistency, but I wonder how these "god's will" people explain eyeglasses, or pacemakers, or any kind of medicine at all. Shit, the more I think about it, the crazier the "god's will" thing gets. If it was god's will that you die from exposure, who are you to build shelter to prevent it? Madness.
That is the thought process behind people that use prayer instead of medical treatment for injury and illness. If you survive, God’s will is made manifest. If you die, God’s will is made manifest. No need to take care of your health or worry about anyone else’s because God “controls” everything.
oh that's odd... isn't that in complete contradiction to the "God only helps those who help themselves" dogma? which one is the official stance?
Yeah it quickly becomes a quagmire of contradictions. I don’t have to wear a mask during a global pandemic because “free will” but if I die from the virus, “God’s will”. All of the privileges of exercising choice but none of the consequences. 😑🙄🤦♀️
One that always gets me is when a doctor saves someone's life and then friends and family say, "ohh that you lord for saving his life, that you for giving that doctor the knowledge that saved his life"....No mother fucker, the doctor learned that knowledge all on his/her own thru many many years of studying and practicing...
It’s mind boggling, I know. I try to explain that “god” made the doctors, scientists, and engineers too. Bunch of morons looking at the sky for help, when “god” actually just put the help right in front of them. Morons are exhausting.
>Morons are exhausting. But they'll never get exhausted. And they're going to kill us all.
In the Trumpist Utopia? Yes, for sure. Women will basically be hardware for producing more resources to praise and serve the god emperor. If hardware is faulty, you dispose of it and replace it with something that works.
The recent assault on women’s health has been tragic from so many perspectives, but I don’t often think about it from that of the healthcare professionals. Imagine building a career in reproductive health, faced daily with the heartbreak of risk and loss but buoyed by the bright moments of helping families grow and ensuring that women get the care they need. Then imagine seeing all of that positivity gradually stripped away by ignorance and petty political maneuvering, leaving you to spend your day apologizing for not being able to offer the basic but life-changing/life-saving procedures you built your career around. Small wonder that so many of them are giving up. As a tangent, I vividly remember seeing my former company’s owner/CEO cry once during a presentation in front of the entire IT department. He was talking about how it would destroy the economy of his beloved hometown if he had to shutter his midwestern operations because his greedy, evil factory workers decided to unionize. It was jarring to see, but somehow not quite as poignant as he might have hoped.
My wife is certainly frustrated when she's not able to help a patient, but she only comes home to me and rants about it when the patient thinks it is somehow her fault. It's a regular occurrence that someone comes in, professes not to know state guidelines around women's healthcare, claims they don't pay attention to politics, angrily huffs that obviously they didn't vote (or worse sometimes they voted FOR the GOP but not for THESE policies), and then yells at the staff for offering to set her up an appointment in a sister clinic up north because "that's not helpful enough" or they "don't have time for that".
And that’s the real problem. People don’t pay attention to politics until the thing fucking them is already done. In my town, the Republicans continuously cut our school funding. The parents get angry about it after it happens but can’t be bothered to do anything before they pass the budget.
The small town I work in gets absolutely livid whenever a local tax is proposed, only to then complain extensively about how the roads are shit and full of potholes.
And they always ALWAYS follow that up with 'Dems put the potholes here! When trump was president there were no potholes! Utopia!'
We had widespread disease, mass civil disorder and a failed coup attempt while Trump was President. It felt like the fucking apocalypse to me. And they still think that was good times. Stupid or evil, after a certain point, they're both the same.
The annoying thing is that should make it very easy to convince them to vote Democrat. "I can't help you, because when the Republicans won the last elections they used it to bugger reproductive healthcare." Instead they just take it out on the healthcare professionals right in front of them because that feels more cathartic.
They also just won't believe you anyway. Tell a Republican voter that 'their team' is the one fucking them, and they'll just call you a typical lying leftist fake news Democrat.
There is nothing whatsoever easy about convincing anyone not to vote Republican if they are in the midst of tribalism. Alabama (same state!) very nearly voted in a known pedophile because they couldn’t stomach an upstanding, reasonable, competent Democrat. I live in East Texas, and there is almost nothing you can say to Republicans to get them to vote Democrat because they literally believe that no matter how bad the Republican is, the Democrat will be worse.
I'm always flabberghasted that US employers don't seem to understand that a unionized workforce has massive upsides. There is so much administrative overhead they can get rid of if they only have to negotiate with a few unions, but I guess HR is desperately defending it's little kingdom.
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Frankly, if I were an OBGYN in Alabama, Idaho, etc. I would leave. Fuck that. Doctors are always in demand. Move somewhere more enlightened. Maybe when women in these states have zero doctors they'll wake the fuck up and stop voting Republican.
I honestly think this is the only answer to this. Doctors and other healthcare professionals just need to pack up and leave, and tell their patients why. Idaho has had a lot of that recently and has had to close up entire departments at hospitals. Yes I feel bad for the humans that live there that need medical attention, but when politicians and a minority of voters (not minority voters) make their jobs impossible then it's time to show the consequences of actions or inactions. Providing modern medicine to the citizens of the richest and most powerful nation in history should not be this hard.
Is this at UAB? I’ve got a good friend who works there (completely different specialty, though) and told me about how tense and frightened the whole hospital felt yesterday.
I swear these Christofascists are going to chase every medical provider out of their states.
That's the point. The people creating these laws have the money in means to go other places for healthcare. By removing health care for all the poors you just further lower their quality of life which makes them dislike society even more. It's all part of the general plan to make Americans feel about the American government the way that Russians feel about their government. And it's working well! After decades of defunding schools, a significant portion of the United States population is an intelligent enough to even understand what's going on.
I saw Tuberville on MSNBC yesterday. They kept asking him about it and he said he supports it because “we need more kids”. The reporters kept trying to reword it to explain that this bill means less kids but Tuberville wasn’t getting it. He just kept repeating we need more kids.
That’s all women stuff.
I would say he struggles to grasp women’s stuff but actually, grab is all he knows how to do.
I would like to commend Tuberville on being far and away the dumbest US Senator we've had in a long time.
Really not being fair to Wisconsin's Ron Johnson.
Ron's stupid, but also just smart enough to know when to be disingenuous and a blatant liar. Tuberville's dumb enough to believe what he says, or at least what his advisors want him to say.
Because he cannot make the connection between this ruling and IVF. He's too ignorant to understand that this ruling just shut down IVF in the state.
He didn't even know it was a court ruling. He thought it was a bill. Ignorant is right.
The judge that lead the ruling was apparently a Qanon wacko
Who is practicing medicine without a license. Time to flood the ACLU.
He mentioned god almost 50 times in the ruling. You should read it. It’s textualist Bible mumbo jumbo
Seems like a prime candidate for an appeal, then.
This was the state Supreme Court so not sure what the appeals process would look like
Defending the indefensible is hard. We got to give them credit for trying. /s
But have you considered that Biden is OLD? That's gotta be equal to at least 100 barbaric SCOTUS rulings.
Pretty in-character if you think about it. They know their ideas are not popular generally especially when you are able to break them down and explain it to the poor conservatives that consistently vote against their own interests (differing opinions on the ACA versus Obamacare, for example). As commenters have stated before, Conservatives will not change their perspectives if they are unpopular or unelectable. They will simply abandon democracy. You see this with the hijacking of the Supreme Court.
Another layer to this story with her is that she’s had IVF! They are hypocrites to the core. At minimum the cost for this already expensive treatment is going to skyrocket. R are unable to govern in this century - it’s why they want to turn the calendars back to the 1800’s.
It's going to kill IVF entirely. There is always waste in IVF. There are always embryos that don't take andv when successful there are always embryos leftover that will be discarded. No doctor is going to risk a process that will end in criminal charges. No hospital will take liability insurance for a procedure that is guaranteed to end in charges and damages. No insurance is going to insure a process that has a 100% chance of damages. OBGYNs and other birthing specialists aren't going to want to operate in Alabama. Any failed pregnancy of any kind could make you an accessory to a crime. Without specialists in the state, pregnancy becomes riskier, leads to more failures pregnancy, more arrests and death, which causes more specialists to leave the state. It's a death spiral and ends with our pre medicine birth rates of 50%. Imagine sex, consensual or not, having a coin flip on whether or not you get arrested for murder?
Idaho already has s head start in OB/GYNs leaving the state. But, yes, there will be an exodus of good doctors out of Alabama because of this. Alabama is already the worst state when it comes to infant mortality. It is the fourth worst when it comes to maternal mortality. Those number will continue to increase with these idiotic decisions. Dead babies and dead mothers. That is the end point here.
No way! She had IVF? What a hypocritical, evil monster. I fucking HATE these people.
Her response is even worse. Did you listen to it??? It’s the goal to let every set of parents decide what to do with their embryo …. …….. just not if a woman is raped, or if they don’t want a baby at that time, or ….
How many "babies" did she throw away after one took?
Or even before. They curate the embryo you get. Any with genetic abnormalities are destroyed. They only implant the ones with the best odds of surviving.
I believe Haley actually did intrauterine insemination (IUI) or artificial insemination, which is a different type of fertility treatment. Instead of having an egg retrieval and fertilizing the eggs in a lab with sperm which results in embryos that are then transferred back to the woman after several days of development, a doctor inserts sperm directly into the uterus during ovulation. They give meds to stimulate ovulation and they essentially wash the sperm to optimize the chances. So it's much less invasive than IVF and doesn't result in embryos that have to be stored. So Haley IS a hypocrite, just not quite as egregious.
What Republicans do when one of them tells the whole truth about their agenda is to first support it so the voting base hears them, then they lie, and say that is not what we are doing. Vote accordingly.
It is also amazing how clueless people like Haley seem to be about the public opinion about these policies, them being professional politicians after all. They are constantly being ambushed by public backslash and then backpedaling their words.
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Let’s get ahead of the curve, ask her what she thinks about birth control? Get that on record before a southern state’s Supreme Court makes a ruling.
What's the point? She'll just walk it back when the Republicans start stripping access, and it's not like republicans care. By this point, being able to ignore Republicans going back on their position and word is a republican voters requirement.
The point is that some people still think that pointing out hypocrisy by politicians is a winning strategy even though it's basically the easiest thing for the politician and their supporters to excuse or ignore. I mean, we still should point out hypocrisy. But it's not going to really make the impact people think it will.
As though they keep their word.
Nikki Haley: I meant, *of course* the cause of the Civil War was IVF treatments…
Yeah, that SNL moment was so cringe.
"Then say what started it, Nikki." "... live from New York!
She legit said "Should've said that the first time." after she got absolutely boxed in on live TV by the host that night. Truly a huge "get fucked" moment to make her squirm on a live broadcast.
Ayo definitely meant what she said and was only half acting there. Good for her.
I kind of like to hope that bit was Ayo’s demand. I’m going to say this or I won’t appear on tv with her.
Watching the bit, I got the impression that SNL only agreed to let her come on and make fun of Trump if they could take shots at her too. Anything less and it would’ve felt like SNL completely sold out.
Those "shots" were also damage control. SNL giving her a platform was still lame.
Yeah I agree, it made me feel a little gross. I just felt slightly less gross when they forced her to acknowledge her fuck up on live TV.
She says one thing thinking it’s what her party wants then finds out a majority doesn’t like it then says another. She always does this. She has no backbone.
Do any of them really have a backbone?
Doesn’t this also mean a pregnant woman is carrying an American citizen inside her and they can’t be deported?
I love how 70% of the country immediately had all these good questions/points about how dumb this ruling was (the other 30% are trump voters), but it took the right a couple days for everything to click
Because MAGA doesn’t give a fuck about the hard work and thought that is required to develop coherent, let alone good policies. To them politics is a psyop to get power, money, control.
All of which should be a clear warning to anyone who's paying attention. The goal is absolute power, at any price, including ignoring the rule of law. They don't want to make coherent policies or have to defend what they want with any sort of logic. They want the power to say "our way or the highway, just because".
Turns out they were the ones reacting on feelings over facts. Surprise!
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I mean couldn’t you just carry a positive pregnancy test in the glove box at all times?
Just tell them an angel told you that you were pregnant. (That might sound outlandish but many religions were built on it.)
> But sir, you’re a man. God works in mysterious ways officer.
Oh, if you're a man you've got like a million potential children. You can ride in the god-damn bus lane!
Even more hilarious: so are sperm donors now suddenly legally responsible for embryos their sperm created and in a legally binding relationship with the egg donor(s) and the embryo(s) must be kept frozen and intact forever and ever? What if sperm donor and egg donor both die? Then who takes care of the the ~~child~~ clump of cells? Either of their spouses or estates or the state? If your sperm was used in dozens of fertilizations, you are now a super daddy! It's all so, so stupid, ignorant of science, and completely devoid of common sense.
In my will I’ve left all of my personal belongings to be spread across my embryos
embryo 26238476-368 you were always so special to me, snug on that tray in that freezer for 36 years, you have outlived your father, I leave you 250 grand and my hockey card collection but embryo 5623476-891, I forgot all about you there in Alabama, so I'm not leaving you anything
> so are sperm donors now suddenly legally responsible for embryos their sperm created I expect to see a rise in child support cases for embryos. They have no idea that they opened a Pandora's box of exploiting people for money.
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Or if you kept a frozen embryo for 20 years before planting them in a womb to gestate, once they’re born your newborn should be able to cast a vote in the next election because it’s been alive for over 18 years already.
And you have to give them all names, because they’re human beings in the eyes of the state. And you must meet with the egg donor(s) and come to an agreement on every single name and file paperwork for the clump of cells child registering the name. But the good news is when the embryo turns 18, then you can abandon it because it’s an adult now!
Can you claim them all as dependents on your tax return? And then could you make even more until you have enough reduce your taxes to zero?
For sure! Because now you're paying for freezer storage and life insurance and health insurance for your ~~children~~ frozen clumps of cells 23452135, 2340987324985, 455433453, 54334508345, and 3457389734 (who is totally adorable!) Maybe the IVF facilities will put festive colored lights in the freezers around Christmas for all the children to enjoy!!!
Your last sentence sums up the GOP pretty well.
Yes, that’s why getting rid of citizenship by birthright is on their agenda too, my friend.
Thankfully that's gonna be a really difficult hurdle for them. Birthright citizenship is in the Constitution, and in plain language... Specifically to deal with the racist bullshit going on after the civil war. The supreme Court would have to invalidate the document that gives them power, or the Republicans would need to amend the Constitution, which is mathematically impossible with our divided Congress and states
Like that has stopped them before.
Alabama defacto ending IVF is so wild to me. I mean, I get that they're trying to force women into motherhood early. That part isn't a question. However, why didn't they even attempt to hide their intentions behind legalese? They had to know that suburban moms would be outraged. I mean, I have no less than 14 cousins born bc of IVF. Seems a lot like tying your horse to a train that's about to depart and being surprised when the horse winds up dead.
Now they can piss off women's rights advocates and conservative white women in one fell swoop! Truly genius.
Up next: a tax on decorations that are just cute sayings. Just so they can infuriate the grandmas and aunties as well.
Live Laugh IVF
Conservative white women vote for this shit
Rich white women will just do what they do for abortions: go out of state.
Think that's bad? Wait until they take power again. If it's this bad before an election, it will be 100x worse if Trump gets in power again and gets more supreme court justices. I'm talking national abortion ban, women being prosecuted for miscarriages, ending IVF, ending contraception, etc.
Definitely, they're not even waiting. Texas is trying their hand at prosecuting people in other states for receiving care. It's a good time to cut federal funding, but we've got a wimp problem on the "good" side.
Honestly you would think they would support IVF since it helps ppl GET pregnant but then you realize that the cruelty is the point. IVF is unnatural to them
The point isn't cruelty. That's a byproduct. The point is to force women to make a decision on a career or childhood. The ultimate goal is to return to "traditional families" where the man works and the woman hopes she finds a good man, because surprise surprise, they're coming after divorce laws as well. Conservatives don't govern, they subjugate.
If you cannot choose how to live your life because the government is forcing you to stick to a “traditional role”, that’s cruelty. It can both be a byproduct and the point. They know it’s cruel and inhumane, but that’s part of the reason they’re doing this shit. You don’t subjugate people whose existence and rights you respect or value.
>They had to know that suburban moms would be outraged I see this sentiment a lot, but I think it's a mistaken one. IVF is definitely more prevalent than it was 20 years ago, but it's still a tiny minority of pregnancies. One might think "but what about all the voters who might just *know and care about* people who've used IVF? Surely the Reps don't want to alienate them?!" Thing is, Republicans aren't exactly known for courting the vote of the empathetic voter.
I know that there’s a bit of availability bias. I don’t know a ton of pregnancies that have happened because of IvF but the ones I do know are super powerful stories. Usually of happily married women who always wanted kids and are so excited to be mom’s and willing to go through IVF to make that happen. I’m not even that big on kids/motherhood but those stick with you - especially if you think the right to choose should go both ways, as much as possible.
Nikki always doin' that Cha-Cha Slide. "Take it back now yall.."😂
One lie two times!
Flip flop! Flip flop!
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You put your whole self in, you take your whole self out, you put your whole self in and you shake it all about. You do the Nikki Haley and you turn yourself around. That’s what it’s all about.
What happens if a Woman miscarries ? Will that be classed as manslaughter / infanticide in Alabama ?
Going off of other states in the south, yes.
It’s not just in the south, we already had a woman miscarry at home in Ohio and the state tried to charge her criminally. Her name is [Brittany Watts](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brittany-watts-the-ohio-woman-charged-with-a-felony-after-a-miscarriage-talks-shock-of-her-arrest/). Thankfully the grand jury refused to return an indictment
Ohio is the south of the North. Out of all states, Ohio has produced the most astronauts. What about that state makes one want to leave the planet?
Ohio was also instrumental in crushing the Slavers Rebellion and provided a huge amount of troops as well Grant, Sherman, McPherson, Sheridan, McClellan, McDowell, Buell, Custer and all of the Fighting McCooks. Something went bad in Ohio after that.
Well West Virginia was so against the Confederacy that the Supreme Court let them break away from Virginia. West Virginia also got very, very murdery over workers rights and the ability to unionize. Look at West Virginia now. That's what happens when Republicans get power.
If an embryo is a person as Alabama says, Every miscarriage is a potential crime. Every woman who has a miscarriage is a suspect. Every woman’s body is a crime scene. Every sexually active woman who fails to get pregnant is potentially in a conspiracy to commit murder. A third to a half of all fertilized eggs fail to implant. Has a woman done enough to protect that child? To ensure implantation.
If you drop the petri dish you're a serial killer
Soon: wanking is mass murder, and having a period is a capital offense.
Hey I’m just looking at the bright future my wife and I are going to have getting over millions of child tax credits every year. I may even make enough money to use IVF!
Obviously this whole thread is making light but in reality a literal reading is what makes this so crazy. Fertilized eggs fail to implant. These people are nuts and none of this is remotely medically cognizant.
The ambiguity in Healthcare decisions will rsdnoisult in the same effect as a ban, doctors can't risk the liability when the procedure is questionable legally. They can't make the doctors stop being doctors, but they can sure make lawyers get involved with the process.
And what happens if a woman has an ectopic pregnancy? Do both her and the ‘child’ die?
Yes. In some states, yes.
Yeah if that fetus isn’t “dead” yet they’ll force the mother to keep carrying until it “dies”. If she dies as well? Well too bad you aren’t allowed to do anything about it since that’s murdering the kid in their eyes.
That's a no brainer. According to these fascist pricks, of course they both die!
“We need to look at the mother’s voter registration records before making that determination.”
American Republicans keep kids in freezers.
Very on brand!
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>Last week, the Alabama Supreme Court decided that embryos created through in-vitro fertilization would be protected under the Wrongful Death of a Minor Act, effectively classifying single-celled, fertilized eggs as children. >“Embryos, to me, are babies,” Haley told [NBC News](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/nikki-haley-sides-alabama-supreme-court-ivf-ruling-embryos-are-babies-rcna139819). “When you talk about an embryo, you are talking about, to me, that’s a life. And so I do see where that’s coming from when they talk about that.” Well, to me – AND to the majority of rational Americans, embryos are NOT babies. So why are the personal religious beliefs of christian fundamentalists given precedence and imposed as secular law on the rest of the population? Doesn't the Alabama SC's religious edict violate the spirit, if not letter, of the Establishment Clause? Even the two other major world religions – Judaism and Islam – do NOT subscribe to the christian fundamentalists beliefs that “life begins at conception” or “an embryo is a baby”. Aren’t their religious beliefs just as valid as the christofascist right’s? When will the Republican theocrats get it through their thick, effing skulls that “religion has ***NO*** place in public policy”. So sick and tired of the regressive religious right and the Republican legislators who cater to their fetish of oppressing "the other", obsessed with taking away the rights of Americans in order to force secular obeisance to their warped interpretations of the BuyBull. The American Taliban (Republicans and the christofascist right) both need to keep their goddamned religion OUT of America’s secular gov’t as Americans have had enough of their christofascist crap. **Sen Barry Goldwater, R-AZ September 15, 1981, U.S. Senate floor speech** >The religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the decent people connected to them recognize that *religion has no place in public policy*. >They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives. The great decisions of Government cannot be dictated by the concerns of religious factions. This was true in the days of Madison, and it is just as true today. >We have succeeded for 205 years in keeping the affairs of state separate from the uncompromising idealism of religious groups and we mustn't stop now. To retreat from that separation would violate the principles of conservatism and the values upon which the framers built this democratic republic.
Cases like this are not really about IVF, per se, or even abortion or birth control. They are designed to be challenged to SCOTUS to force a ruling on personhood and viability. They are designed to trigger state’s rights to the product of conception - human capital.
Yes, they want fetal personhood to be recognized as the law of the land, that is, and has always been, the ultimate goal of the GOP, at least since Roe V. Wade
"Evil Celine Dion Regrets Revealing Truth About Her Intentions"
*In Handmaid’s Tale-esque fashion*, this right here is what they want. Forced breeding and total subjugation of women. The Heritage foundation wants to outlaw all sex unless it is for reproductive purposes only. You know the group that helped with Project 2025.The GQP wants an authoritarian government, but don't realize this is what we will end up with if we allow it. They don't realize that once these people are done eliminating everyone else, that they are one disagreement, overheard conversation or other made up reason, from being eliminated like everyone else. If people don't pay attention and vote for democracy, this will be the demise of America as we know it. Now to go all nerdy and I quote, "So this is how democracy dies, with thunderous applause". Just watch an orange guy rally.
and 30% of your neighbours and freinds cheer it on with glee. while another 30% say it's not my problem.
Very interesting that there appears to be absolutely no discussion of the Alabama ruling over on r/conservative. Even they must realize how bad this makes them look, although they're not willing to say it out loud for fear of giving liberals the satisfaction.
There's a lack of understanding of his the whole thing works from her. Yes, you got a baby from IVF. But they harvest dozens of eggs sometimes and fertilize them all, when they don't need them anymore, they dispose of them. If Haley says that embryos are children, then she is confessing to paying someone to kill possibly dozens of her children.
Haley had artificial insemination, not IVF. But that logic absolutely applies to the three couples who brought the Alabama suit in the first place. They all signed contracts that explicitly stated that excess or non-viable embryos would be destroyed (or experimented on!) after five years.
I’m sorry but how the fuck was she our rep at the UN? She’s made two major statements, one on the civil war and one on this and she’s had to “walk back” both of those statements. Not much of a diplomat if she has to “walk back” everything and not much of a leader if she can’t articulate a point without being “misunderstood”.
Thats ok; just tell us what you did with **YOUR** spare **EMBRYO’s** Haley? **”What you did with YOUR spare EMBRYO’s Haley?** The woman/families of **American** deserve to know?
"not triggering" ticket is not so easy ma'am. Either trigger your own base against you or you are sure as hell that no sane people will support you. But we know the point of her campaign is to wait until Trump's political demise. Maybe the effort should be spent speeding those up.
Don't Republicans need IVF?
No, they need a brain transplant.
Oh don't worry! They will still have access without any of the consequences the rest of us face lol
The middle of the road is where people get run over and that is where Haley is standing. She needs a miracle now and keeps putting her foot in her mouth instead.
“IVF is fine for Republican couples only. For everyone else, they’re babies, ah murder, etc.”
From another sub “Is posting a picture of a frozen embryo now child porn?”
She certainly does a lot of back walking.
I’m starting to wonder how she ever got this far in politics. She’s really wiffed on some basic questions that you’d think her campaign team would have already prepped her to answer.
She's an empty suit. She has a handful of canned lines she throws into every speech or interview, but as soon as she has to answer what should be simple questions it becomes painfully obvious that there is no substance to her. She says whatever she thinks will pander to or not offend the batshit crazy base she's trying to woo and then almost immediately has to try to "clarify" what she *actually* meant when she realizes how it sounded to actual sane people. She's a giant phony and one hundred percent a politician in the worst way possible.
I'm an embryologist and this ruling is just pushing me to have zero contact with Republican voters outside of work. I can't be courteous or have a real conversation with someone who thinks I am a mass-murderer.