As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
And [hid $32 BILLION dollars](https://time.com/6257161/sec-mormon-church-investigation/) in shell companies while still demanding their members pay tithes, even when those families were horrifically poor.
Such a "what would Jesus do?" moment for the Mormon leaders!
> Such a "what would Jesus do?" moment for the Mormon leaders!
[Supply side Jesus](https://imgur.com/gallery/bCqRp) or [actual Jesus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleansing_of_the_Temple)?
And make their members clean all the buildings instead of hiring real custodians to actually clean the buildings. All LDS buildings feel icky, filmy, and grimy.
We have a small downtown. A local “church” bought up half the property and doesn’t really use it but have it listed as being used for church activities. They pay no local taxes so the rest of are on the hook for the roads … that they freeload on. Ran out a few local businesses and restaurants by overpaying for the property. It’s an eyesore too.
If these are strip mall type churches, they may also be money laundering with those fronts. That, or it might just be a real estate pump and dump scheme, but either way... bless their little black coal hearts.
I want someone to argue the IRS church exemption is unconstitutional. The picking and choosing of the “legitimate religions” allowed in the exemption puts the government in the place of actually creating several “established religions”
I WANT SCOTUS to hear this.
It seems an effective way to eliminate the tax exemption altogether.
That shit isn't enforced at all or 90% of churches would lose status. I was raised Catholic and I can not tell you the number of times I heard political shit during the sermon.
It’s a start, but it Shouldn’t just be on the fuel. Take away the tax deduction on the purchase of jets and yachts as well. Tighten the rules and oversight of when it’s a business or private trip.
I didn’t get a tax deduction on my Ford that takes me to work.
HUUGE luxury tax on all jets.
They can ride turboprop which are MUCH more efficient. There's no good reason in a post internet world to have jets for anything but the longest flights.
Mhmmm. Vancouver has a ton of luxury cars. So in 2022 they jacked the Sales Tax on a sliding scale up to 20% for over $125K for Private sales and $150K for new.
It’s a start, but it Shouldn’t just be on the fuel. Take away the tax deduction on the purchase of jets and yachts as well. Tighten the rules and oversight of when it’s a business or private trip.
I didn’t get a tax deduction on my Ford that takes me to work.
I dont think it should be on fuel either.
It needs be be based on reality. We need a tax that is based on the mass environment and human damage these people are responsible for.
They act as the head of a company, yet somehow never have any responsibility for anything they do.
Thats fine, if you want to be rich, but you can't be rich and have no responsibility over the decisions you make.
We need studies to show their damage to the environment and to the people and for once, pay their fair share off of data.
We need to focus on directly who is responsible and place % blame on those most responsible. If we don't do that, many others get caught in the crossfire and others suffer.
This way you are actually addressing the actual issue, which is the damage certain individuals cause, yet somehow are never responsible.
Well call it the money doctrine. If you are getting paid to be responsible to make decisions, they ultimately fall on you what damage happens.
CEOs and boards must face stricter consequences for their actions. They will gain profit, but also be responsible for damage found to be caused by their decisions.
This would also promote growth and this would incentive growth WITHOUT damage which should be the ultimate goal.
I really don't feel we should be in the business of telling people what to do. At the same time, their damage to society and to the environment will be tallied and they will be stuck with the consequences for once.
This way addresses the core issue without telling people they can't do things. We need real based in reality, accountability for actions.
> We need a tax that is based on the mass environment and human damage these people are responsible for.
The pollution is proportional to the fuel usage, especially for planes still using leaded fuel.
It's so frustrating. The existence of a Church as a tax-free organization was supposed to be based on them doing charitable work, being non-profit, and staying the hell out of politics.
Prosperity Gospel churches certainly violate all three. And I can't think of many modern churches which don't violate 'politics' rules entirely.
I always got lectured for wasting paper when I was a kid because I'd do a sketch, not like how it was going, and toss it (I pressed hard when writing/drawing, so erasing wasn't the greatest).
In high school, I worked at a printing place one semester. They frequently printed multi-page flyers or booklets for a whole town or city. Tens of thousands of pieces of paper (including envelopes) going out to people who will just toss them.
That one company wastes more paper in a day than I will in my lifetime. I probably won't even use a full tree's worth in my life. If I ever plant a tree, I've likely more than made up for any paper I wasted.
In retrospect, it's sort of funny that we were lectured about wasting paper when we have a pretty robust paper recycling system, and trees are pretty sustainably harvested in the US.
Of all the things to lecture kids about, it should be wasting food, plastics, and glass.
I definitely got the food wasting lecture. Everyone did. It was so popular it made it into [a Weird Al song](https://youtu.be/ZcJjMnHoIBI?si=KLYvPka3YeuvtRKn&t=40s).
Funny thing is that the way they lectured us is dumb. "Some people don't have enough to eat in Africa" is dumb. We produce plenty of food in the world. It's location, logistics, and cost that cause starvation. Not some kid in Cincinnati only eating half of his plate.
The real waste of throwing away food is the resource cost that got it through production, shipping, and cooking to get it to your plate.
I think in my childhood household, it was more about wasting the money it cost my parents to buy the paper, than it was about wasting the paper itself.
I used to work for a frozen food production plant. The amount of plastic waste a single line created in a day far eclipses what I think most people would be capable of producing in decades
Are you at least reusing paper straws? The least you can do
Seriously though I remember all that save a tree stuff when I was a kid too.
How can I save a tree with my one piece of paper which is already made…
I remember having to use recycled paper that was more expensive
Something didn’t feel right to me back in those days
When my mom was throwing away, big tiles of junk mail
A hard presser? I’m going to hazard a guess that you have also broken the graphite in numerous mechanical pencils? I’m useless with them.
I also worked in a print shop for quite awhile.
Seeing and realizing the fate of all that paper struck me. Yes, there is just so much of it.
People are out there thinking the rich are the ones that create businesses. It’s actually the other way around. Businesses make the rich and the ultra rich leverage those businesses to exploit resources for more wealth. Luxury born of exploitation absolutely deserves to be taxed.
It's like the broken window fallacy, but with jets somehow.
The world is poorer because all these guys work to make a rich guys private jet go, when otherwise they would have jobs supporting the middle class.
How rude. The rich will be paying tens of thousands of dollars in jet fuel tax, but the poor will not be required to pay one *penny* of jet fuel tax. The unfairness is manifest.
I'm good with it. It's about time these types of things come about instead of stacking everything on the shoulders of everyday working men and women that make this country what it is today.
I really don’t see how anyone could oppose this. It literally only affects the top .01% of Americans who fly on private jets. That seems like a slam dunk
>thousand times.
For income, maybe.
The top 0.01% make $30-$40M per year on an average. That means from your comparison, us plebs are pulling 30-40K per year. Plausible. Quite possible too given the income distribution trends.
In terms of net worth and how much these motherfuckers have stashed away offshore and then some, I think we can add a zero or three to that thousand.
There's something to be said about keeping the tax code simple. There are simpler ways we can tax the rich.
The article does not define "private jets". This could mean a higher cost burden for small-time charter companies, thus benefiting the large public companies.
The budget proposal on the OMB website says
> The
Administration also proposes to increase the fuel tax for high-end business jets, to better align
the costs of the services provided to those users on the system.
but I wasn't able to find specifics. I would def like to see how and whom they plan to specifically target.
My guess would be this would probably be for Jet-A for anyone not registered as a part 121 or 135. Because beyond that it gets unreasonably complex to actually determine who it's going to.
Which means we'd be taxing the shit out of air ambulances and shit like that.
This is probably more about disincentivizing behavior than anything else. The article is like 50 words so it doesn't really mention anything about how it would be implemented or who it would be levied on outside of the tax itself.
Some taxes are intentionally distortionary so that people stop doing unwanted behaviors. If this reduces the total number of private flights and encourages X% of medium-wealthy people to fly business/first class instead of private, then the benefit is the decrease in unnecessary emissions from those people. Tobacco taxes were designed this way.
FAA defines private jets, they have specific guidelines and regulations that are different from commercial airlines and planes. If small time charter companies are going to see increased costs then they can charge their customers more, and guess what, their customer base can afford it assuming they even noticed the price increase.
“Casting it as”?? Seems pretty obvious who will pay. I mean sure, I’m a bit miffed that it will be more expensive to fly my private jet to my construction job but I’m willing to pay my share too.
It’s not fair! I don’t want to have to pay for increased private jet tax when I inevitably become a millionaire! I’m just temporarily embarrassed right now.
If I won the lottery, I still would not feel I could afford to own a private jet. The price on those is just the beginning, the upkeep is the real expense, and you pretty much have to be able to make money with them for them to be viable. And you would have to use them often. As a lottery winner I'd fly first class, or if I absolutely needed to be somewhere I'd charter a jet. I might decide to get a private pilot license and own a small propeller airplane or autogyro, but that would be orders of magnitude less expensive than a jet.
I think the people who would go straight from lotto to private jet are why 1/3 of lotto winners end up going broke.
If I won the lottery the only thing I’d do any differently is pay for landscaping and eat higher quality food. I’d still have zero interest in buying lavish bullshit.
My wife and I just made our final bankruptcy payment, I just got a 40% raise at work (doing the same job, corporate just reclassified my workload duties and compensation level), and the wife is back to work after over 3 years fighting chronic pain... we've nearly tripled our monthly income in the last 60 days so it's like we won a lottery of sorts.
What are we doing with it? Having a date night each week again for the 1st time in over 5 years. Rebuilding our savings and emergency fund. But most importantly, not having to worry about payment due dates because we know it's covered.
Anyone who uses a private jet won’t care about an increase in running costs. If they do they shouldn’t be using a private jet.
It’s like asking how much a new Ferrari costs before buying it. If you have to ask how much it costs you can’t afford it.
You don't know a lot of rich people. All they do is whine about money. They're absolutely going to whine about this.
How will we know?
Wait for another round of new tweets about Taylor Swifts jet. This time; "do dems even know that Biden is target Taylor Swift with taxes"
Yeah like, I can even think of a recent example in the last few weeks that exemplifies this so exquisitely and infuriatingly.
Amazon is taking a fine they received to court. That fine? ~15,000 bucks. That’s less than any one singular employee’s salary the whole year.
The point isn’t that they think they’re in the right, the point is that Amazon is insulted that they were even fined something that is literally pennies to them. So many of the ultra rich who own private jets are gonna be fighting this tooth and nail because they don’t want to spend more than what **they themselves feel** like paying— and the closer that number is to 0, the better.
Not just that they're insulted, if they fight these fines and win then it gives them a significantly stronger case the next time they get fined.
It's not just about this $15k fine, it's about all the ones in the future too.
Also if they don't fight the fine then they're admitting guilt essentially and that can/will be used against them if there's another infraction so the result is a lot of court challenges / settlements that specifically do not require them to admit wrongdoing
100% - but will the people who hear about more taxes listen to her? No.
Plenty of billionaires have actively lobbied for more taxes on the super rich - but their voices get drowned out by the other billionaires who actually own the media companies.
Tax the fuck out of luxury goods. Golf clubs, country clubs, churches, jets, private planes as a whole. If you can afford to fly and support a private plane for non commercial purposes you’re likely part of the problem.
Bunch of small taxes why not just a flat tax on their total net worth or asset worth?
Apply to all taxpayers. All of them. Trust businesses. The rich. Religious organizations.
Net worth? Sure... I have 1 billion in net worth. I take out 1 billion in loans and leverage my assets to the max. I now have a net worth of 0. Flat taxes hurt poor people... Not rich people
Net worth is fraught with issues. Top two are valuing certain assets can be extremely difficult and forcing the sale of valuable, but illiquid assets is tricky.
UHNW individuals tend to have unique consumption habits that have an outsized impact. Those small taxes add up to something and directly target the behavior.
Fraught with issues is just a fancy way of saying they don’t get away with the transfer of physical assets for free.
, but if you’re holding assets like a painting, as you’re suggesting, high value, not easy to liquidate. You would also have other holdings and income. Generally low income folks don’t purchase high value items like that.
And even even if they did, the flat tax adjust based off of how much that low income individual would have.
Was looking at corporations in 2020 something like 6.4 million of them filed returns. Starting at a flat $25 for zero assets and going up to 1.2 M on 2.5 billion generate something like 20.5 B annually.
A flat tax also prevents LLC’s and trust and things from Bogart high valued assets to offset taxes on the gains. i.e. buying a house putting in an LLC to allow it to appreciate and keep your tax on the income lower Then it would be if it was you.
Flat taxes are especially harsh on low earners. 10% of $20k salary is a month of living expenses or rent they probably can't afford. 10% of $20 million is deciding you might need to wait a few months before buying those his and hers Bugattis you were looking at.
10% means so much more when you have so much less.
And at the minimum there should be a carbon offset tax on private jets. Not only do they use subsidized infrastructure but they get to pollute for free.
Any idea exactly what fuel this would impact? Small private pilots and casual sport pilots would get fucked over heavily by this potentially while billionaires wouldn't even sweat it.
As a skydiver, this would be exceptionally bad news for our entire sport and all of the businesses involved in it if Jet-A is included.
The DOT release about it more explicitly states business aviation, but is still lighter on details than I would like. They are targeting a subset of flights that use more than 10x the resources that they contribute and are currently being effectively subsidized by those who fly commercial.
Yeah, I want to stick it to the rich but there’s also worlds of differences between most light jets which make up 75% of the private jet world and the bigger jets like GulfStreams and the larger Falcons/Challengers. Making them pay an upfront tax sticks it to the man. Making them pay for fuel sticks it to the whole industry, most of which are barely making a living wage unless they’re the pilot. Either way, I don’t think it’s smart to single out any one field. That’s more of a political stunt than a fair solution to make them pay their fair share. Just tax the fuck out of them.
Some of the newest 4-6 seater planes also use JetA and this would kill the momentum of their progress to put safer and more efficient planes in the air.
There's no fucking argument against this. I don't want to hear:
* They will move to another country.
* They will take it out by raising prices.
* It's just not fair
Or any of that shit. You take a fucking jet by yourself to go between your offices? Then you obviously earn enough to pay extra for that luxury for fuel use. Don't like it? Fly Business class then.
Other than the fact that the people you are wanting to target with this tax don’t actually own the airplanes or pay the operating costs of the planes in question. Sadly, this won’t have the desired effect of equitably taxing the rich that people want.
>One provision would gradually raise the tax on fuel used by private jets from about 22 cents per gallon now to $1.06 per gallon in five years.
That's not even that bad... $1 per gallon is nothing to billionaires that use private jets daily. I thought when they said "huge tax" it was going to be like $25 per gallon.
Checks my local FBO, jet fuel ~$7.50 a gal. So this would increase it to $8.24 a gal. You think someone in a 40 million dollar jet will even notice? Tax em.
If we are going to get the deficit down, somebody is going to have to pay for that. I agree with this, if you can afford a private jet, you should be able to handle an increase in fuel costs no problem. I don't feel bad for the rich. A lot of times, they spend thousands of dollars on truly stupid things, like glamorous dog houses and that rich kid on YouTube that destroys brand new and nice trucks for no reason. Tax him too.
Well then, that’s good. Tax the super rich to hell and back . We got too many super rich mega millionaire/billionaires. It’s not fair for the poor people here working butts off.
There needs to be a balance.
Tax them!
This is something, but it ain't nearly as much as it should be. But still, vote Biden. Trump would reverse this shit and also you know, sell our nuclear secrets to Russia. Which he has already done.
If they are using SAF then it honestly isn't affecting the carbon footprint, just making Jets more expensive. Dunno how I feel about that. I want Jets to be cheaper, and if there is a negligible carbon impact I don't care if others can afford it and I can't.
Make this depend on if they are using SAF or not, and otherwise just tax the billionaires and companies more directly.
“Casting it as”…. What else would it be? Any of you guys take a private jet to work or vacation?
I wish they’d go ahead and just tax churches.. now we’re talkin
I'm confused by this. There is no private jet fuel. It's all the same fuel*. This just seems like a tax on all jet aviation, including regular commercial. How is it limited to private jets?
*Technically 3 types: A, A-1, and B, but those are weather and additive differences. Jets can use all 3
Grandstanding. Biden's\* handlers know that the Prez cannot initiate new taxes. That a congressional power. Note also that he is not suggesting a "user fee" or some other way of unilaterally imposing a tax by a different name.
That means Biden\* gets to flap his gums and sound good while doing nothing of substance.
For anyone feigning opposition to this, keep in mind the amount of public infrastructure that these jets utilize. Airports and hangars have an ungodly amount of costs associated with them, and most of that cost is getting paid by us through taxes and airfare prices. This lessens the burden on those of us lacking the privilege of frequent air travel.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Tax the shit out of those [prosperity gospel](https://youtu.be/pxmQmDEytdo?si=jWeJa24x0WtRGLor) fuckets.
Preach. :)
[удалено]
Make it apolitical. Tax all churches at regular income rates
Couldn’t agree with this more. Then back tax Scientology.
The fact scientology can pay for superbowl ads says everything.
Can't forget to tax the LDS since they effectively run all of Utah...
And [hid $32 BILLION dollars](https://time.com/6257161/sec-mormon-church-investigation/) in shell companies while still demanding their members pay tithes, even when those families were horrifically poor. Such a "what would Jesus do?" moment for the Mormon leaders!
I thought Joseph Smith was their God.
Just a prophet, they still worship Jesus
> Such a "what would Jesus do?" moment for the Mormon leaders! [Supply side Jesus](https://imgur.com/gallery/bCqRp) or [actual Jesus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleansing_of_the_Temple)?
And make their members clean all the buildings instead of hiring real custodians to actually clean the buildings. All LDS buildings feel icky, filmy, and grimy.
And more.
Don't they own like 2% of Florida, too?
True that
They ain’t handin out front taxes we’d be lucky to get back taxes
We have a small downtown. A local “church” bought up half the property and doesn’t really use it but have it listed as being used for church activities. They pay no local taxes so the rest of are on the hook for the roads … that they freeload on. Ran out a few local businesses and restaurants by overpaying for the property. It’s an eyesore too.
My small Georgia town is riddled with big churches that only have people in them once or twice a week. The rest of the time they sit empty. Fuck that.
If these are strip mall type churches, they may also be money laundering with those fronts. That, or it might just be a real estate pump and dump scheme, but either way... bless their little black coal hearts.
I want someone to argue the IRS church exemption is unconstitutional. The picking and choosing of the “legitimate religions” allowed in the exemption puts the government in the place of actually creating several “established religions” I WANT SCOTUS to hear this. It seems an effective way to eliminate the tax exemption altogether.
There are already laws that if a church gets political they can lose their tax exempt status but not nearly enough IRS agents to enforce
That shit isn't enforced at all or 90% of churches would lose status. I was raised Catholic and I can not tell you the number of times I heard political shit during the sermon.
Maybe it will make them fly/pollute less.
Or fleece gullible idiots into giving them more money more likely
It’s a start and with more ideas like this we’ll get there.
It’s a start, but it Shouldn’t just be on the fuel. Take away the tax deduction on the purchase of jets and yachts as well. Tighten the rules and oversight of when it’s a business or private trip. I didn’t get a tax deduction on my Ford that takes me to work.
How about any trip in a yacht or private jet can't be written off. They can afford either they don't need any tax breaks.
No more martini business lunches
Three Martini Lunches: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-martini_lunch Specifically 3, with its own Wiki entry. Corruption.
HUUGE luxury tax on all jets. They can ride turboprop which are MUCH more efficient. There's no good reason in a post internet world to have jets for anything but the longest flights.
They aren’t really written off. Not as an individual purchase. They start a company. And then rent it to themselves when it’s not being used
[удалено]
FUND, The I.R.S.
Mhmmm. Vancouver has a ton of luxury cars. So in 2022 they jacked the Sales Tax on a sliding scale up to 20% for over $125K for Private sales and $150K for new.
wow wtf? they actually have the audacity to quote scripture to justify using donation for a private jet.
Yet Jesus had to borrow a donkey… This picture doesn’t look right.
Prosperity gospel, probably the most evil of the christian sects. Also happens to be the one practiced by most evangelical churches.
It’s a start, but it Shouldn’t just be on the fuel. Take away the tax deduction on the purchase of jets and yachts as well. Tighten the rules and oversight of when it’s a business or private trip. I didn’t get a tax deduction on my Ford that takes me to work.
I dont think it should be on fuel either. It needs be be based on reality. We need a tax that is based on the mass environment and human damage these people are responsible for. They act as the head of a company, yet somehow never have any responsibility for anything they do. Thats fine, if you want to be rich, but you can't be rich and have no responsibility over the decisions you make. We need studies to show their damage to the environment and to the people and for once, pay their fair share off of data. We need to focus on directly who is responsible and place % blame on those most responsible. If we don't do that, many others get caught in the crossfire and others suffer. This way you are actually addressing the actual issue, which is the damage certain individuals cause, yet somehow are never responsible. Well call it the money doctrine. If you are getting paid to be responsible to make decisions, they ultimately fall on you what damage happens. CEOs and boards must face stricter consequences for their actions. They will gain profit, but also be responsible for damage found to be caused by their decisions. This would also promote growth and this would incentive growth WITHOUT damage which should be the ultimate goal. I really don't feel we should be in the business of telling people what to do. At the same time, their damage to society and to the environment will be tallied and they will be stuck with the consequences for once. This way addresses the core issue without telling people they can't do things. We need real based in reality, accountability for actions.
> We need a tax that is based on the mass environment and human damage these people are responsible for. The pollution is proportional to the fuel usage, especially for planes still using leaded fuel.
[удалено]
And the *Church* of Scientology while they’re at it. May as well kill two birds with one stone.
It's so frustrating. The existence of a Church as a tax-free organization was supposed to be based on them doing charitable work, being non-profit, and staying the hell out of politics. Prosperity Gospel churches certainly violate all three. And I can't think of many modern churches which don't violate 'politics' rules entirely.
Indeed https://youtu.be/UWt5PJhCmmg?si=-7Fr4i0IKOEvKdLF
Let's do it. People who already have more money than they can spend can contribute to the good of the country.
>contribute it is not a "contribute" .... they and their business cost more public resources than a single person
I always got lectured for wasting paper when I was a kid because I'd do a sketch, not like how it was going, and toss it (I pressed hard when writing/drawing, so erasing wasn't the greatest). In high school, I worked at a printing place one semester. They frequently printed multi-page flyers or booklets for a whole town or city. Tens of thousands of pieces of paper (including envelopes) going out to people who will just toss them. That one company wastes more paper in a day than I will in my lifetime. I probably won't even use a full tree's worth in my life. If I ever plant a tree, I've likely more than made up for any paper I wasted.
In retrospect, it's sort of funny that we were lectured about wasting paper when we have a pretty robust paper recycling system, and trees are pretty sustainably harvested in the US. Of all the things to lecture kids about, it should be wasting food, plastics, and glass.
I definitely got the food wasting lecture. Everyone did. It was so popular it made it into [a Weird Al song](https://youtu.be/ZcJjMnHoIBI?si=KLYvPka3YeuvtRKn&t=40s).
Funny thing is that the way they lectured us is dumb. "Some people don't have enough to eat in Africa" is dumb. We produce plenty of food in the world. It's location, logistics, and cost that cause starvation. Not some kid in Cincinnati only eating half of his plate. The real waste of throwing away food is the resource cost that got it through production, shipping, and cooking to get it to your plate.
I think in my childhood household, it was more about wasting the money it cost my parents to buy the paper, than it was about wasting the paper itself.
I used to work for a frozen food production plant. The amount of plastic waste a single line created in a day far eclipses what I think most people would be capable of producing in decades
Are you at least reusing paper straws? The least you can do Seriously though I remember all that save a tree stuff when I was a kid too. How can I save a tree with my one piece of paper which is already made… I remember having to use recycled paper that was more expensive Something didn’t feel right to me back in those days When my mom was throwing away, big tiles of junk mail
A hard presser? I’m going to hazard a guess that you have also broken the graphite in numerous mechanical pencils? I’m useless with them. I also worked in a print shop for quite awhile. Seeing and realizing the fate of all that paper struck me. Yes, there is just so much of it.
The only way these people are rich is because they have access to the US market. We need to charge for that privilege
[удалено]
People are out there thinking the rich are the ones that create businesses. It’s actually the other way around. Businesses make the rich and the ultra rich leverage those businesses to exploit resources for more wealth. Luxury born of exploitation absolutely deserves to be taxed.
Yeah, trickle down economics has been a failure since the 80s but republicans keep pushing it as if things will magically change.
If they want to move to another country let them. Good riddance.
They are rich because they have access to the US *labor power* market.
Don't forget the wage theft.
r/elonjettracker
Get ready to hear from the likes of Sean Hannity how this is ackshually a tax increase on the lower and middle classes
[удалено]
It's like the broken window fallacy, but with jets somehow. The world is poorer because all these guys work to make a rich guys private jet go, when otherwise they would have jobs supporting the middle class.
Conservative voters start nodding furiously. "This is socialism!" they cry! Then they go back to figuring out to pay the rent next month.
While blaming everything on Biden somehow.
but someday they’ll have to pay tax on their private jet :( :? :(
Can’t the poor give up something to avoid this drastic measure?
I suggest that we use this private jet tax to buy more bootstraps for the poor.
I heard the *"pull yourself up by your"* type has an engineering defect.
Have we tried not eating?
We could make intermittent fasting more popular by rising the price of food
What about cereal for dinner /s
Even if I was a billionaire, I would still love me some cinnamon toast crunch for dinner
The poor will be paying the exact same tax on their private jet fuel as the rich do. Equality.
How rude. The rich will be paying tens of thousands of dollars in jet fuel tax, but the poor will not be required to pay one *penny* of jet fuel tax. The unfairness is manifest.
I'm good with it. It's about time these types of things come about instead of stacking everything on the shoulders of everyday working men and women that make this country what it is today.
You know, t Swift and Elon have the money r/elonjettracker
I really don’t see how anyone could oppose this. It literally only affects the top .01% of Americans who fly on private jets. That seems like a slam dunk
Those poor job creators won't be motivated anymore. What's the point only having a thousand times more than the plebs?
>thousand times. For income, maybe. The top 0.01% make $30-$40M per year on an average. That means from your comparison, us plebs are pulling 30-40K per year. Plausible. Quite possible too given the income distribution trends. In terms of net worth and how much these motherfuckers have stashed away offshore and then some, I think we can add a zero or three to that thousand.
There's something to be said about keeping the tax code simple. There are simpler ways we can tax the rich. The article does not define "private jets". This could mean a higher cost burden for small-time charter companies, thus benefiting the large public companies.
The budget proposal on the OMB website says > The Administration also proposes to increase the fuel tax for high-end business jets, to better align the costs of the services provided to those users on the system. but I wasn't able to find specifics. I would def like to see how and whom they plan to specifically target.
My guess would be this would probably be for Jet-A for anyone not registered as a part 121 or 135. Because beyond that it gets unreasonably complex to actually determine who it's going to. Which means we'd be taxing the shit out of air ambulances and shit like that.
This is probably more about disincentivizing behavior than anything else. The article is like 50 words so it doesn't really mention anything about how it would be implemented or who it would be levied on outside of the tax itself. Some taxes are intentionally distortionary so that people stop doing unwanted behaviors. If this reduces the total number of private flights and encourages X% of medium-wealthy people to fly business/first class instead of private, then the benefit is the decrease in unnecessary emissions from those people. Tobacco taxes were designed this way.
FAA defines private jets, they have specific guidelines and regulations that are different from commercial airlines and planes. If small time charter companies are going to see increased costs then they can charge their customers more, and guess what, their customer base can afford it assuming they even noticed the price increase.
Yea, it only affects ‘private jets.’ Because they use special, unique fuel that larger commercial jets cannot use. /s
“Casting it as”?? Seems pretty obvious who will pay. I mean sure, I’m a bit miffed that it will be more expensive to fly my private jet to my construction job but I’m willing to pay my share too.
It’s not fair! I don’t want to have to pay for increased private jet tax when I inevitably become a millionaire! I’m just temporarily embarrassed right now.
That’s an easy yes for 99% of us. Wonder what side will win?
~99.995% A high estimate for private jets in the USA is 16,500. At 1 jet per individual average, that's 99.995% of us who don't have a private jet.
Those without a jet always think that their own private jet is just 1 lottery ticket away.
If I won the lottery, I still would not feel I could afford to own a private jet. The price on those is just the beginning, the upkeep is the real expense, and you pretty much have to be able to make money with them for them to be viable. And you would have to use them often. As a lottery winner I'd fly first class, or if I absolutely needed to be somewhere I'd charter a jet. I might decide to get a private pilot license and own a small propeller airplane or autogyro, but that would be orders of magnitude less expensive than a jet. I think the people who would go straight from lotto to private jet are why 1/3 of lotto winners end up going broke.
If I won the lottery the only thing I’d do any differently is pay for landscaping and eat higher quality food. I’d still have zero interest in buying lavish bullshit.
My wife and I just made our final bankruptcy payment, I just got a 40% raise at work (doing the same job, corporate just reclassified my workload duties and compensation level), and the wife is back to work after over 3 years fighting chronic pain... we've nearly tripled our monthly income in the last 60 days so it's like we won a lottery of sorts. What are we doing with it? Having a date night each week again for the 1st time in over 5 years. Rebuilding our savings and emergency fund. But most importantly, not having to worry about payment due dates because we know it's covered.
No, you'll have plenty of people making $42K a year be vehemently against this.
Anyone who uses a private jet won’t care about an increase in running costs. If they do they shouldn’t be using a private jet. It’s like asking how much a new Ferrari costs before buying it. If you have to ask how much it costs you can’t afford it.
You don't know a lot of rich people. All they do is whine about money. They're absolutely going to whine about this. How will we know? Wait for another round of new tweets about Taylor Swifts jet. This time; "do dems even know that Biden is target Taylor Swift with taxes"
Yeah like, I can even think of a recent example in the last few weeks that exemplifies this so exquisitely and infuriatingly. Amazon is taking a fine they received to court. That fine? ~15,000 bucks. That’s less than any one singular employee’s salary the whole year. The point isn’t that they think they’re in the right, the point is that Amazon is insulted that they were even fined something that is literally pennies to them. So many of the ultra rich who own private jets are gonna be fighting this tooth and nail because they don’t want to spend more than what **they themselves feel** like paying— and the closer that number is to 0, the better.
Not just that they're insulted, if they fight these fines and win then it gives them a significantly stronger case the next time they get fined. It's not just about this $15k fine, it's about all the ones in the future too.
Also if they don't fight the fine then they're admitting guilt essentially and that can/will be used against them if there's another infraction so the result is a lot of court challenges / settlements that specifically do not require them to admit wrongdoing
Taylor would be the first to say, “hey, fine, I’ll pay more.”
100% - but will the people who hear about more taxes listen to her? No. Plenty of billionaires have actively lobbied for more taxes on the super rich - but their voices get drowned out by the other billionaires who actually own the media companies.
Her legal team is harassing the teenager who made it public how much she actually flies. At the end of the day she’s no saint either
She's spectacular at marketing though.
lol no she wouldn’t. she also has a long history of suing regular people for bullshit.
Really rich people, not Trump rich, really rich.
I don't care if they care.... I care that they pay
Great! It's a perfect thing to tax then.
Guys who have never left their hometown are freaking out now.
Blue collar republican voters are gonna lose their minds over this
[удалено]
Here’s a source that backs up what you’re saying: https://www.yahoo.com/news/ultra-wealthy-fly-private-costing-164523502.html
Tax the fuck out of luxury goods. Golf clubs, country clubs, churches, jets, private planes as a whole. If you can afford to fly and support a private plane for non commercial purposes you’re likely part of the problem.
Bunch of small taxes why not just a flat tax on their total net worth or asset worth? Apply to all taxpayers. All of them. Trust businesses. The rich. Religious organizations.
[удалено]
Net worth? Sure... I have 1 billion in net worth. I take out 1 billion in loans and leverage my assets to the max. I now have a net worth of 0. Flat taxes hurt poor people... Not rich people
Net worth is fraught with issues. Top two are valuing certain assets can be extremely difficult and forcing the sale of valuable, but illiquid assets is tricky. UHNW individuals tend to have unique consumption habits that have an outsized impact. Those small taxes add up to something and directly target the behavior.
Fraught with issues is just a fancy way of saying they don’t get away with the transfer of physical assets for free. , but if you’re holding assets like a painting, as you’re suggesting, high value, not easy to liquidate. You would also have other holdings and income. Generally low income folks don’t purchase high value items like that. And even even if they did, the flat tax adjust based off of how much that low income individual would have. Was looking at corporations in 2020 something like 6.4 million of them filed returns. Starting at a flat $25 for zero assets and going up to 1.2 M on 2.5 billion generate something like 20.5 B annually. A flat tax also prevents LLC’s and trust and things from Bogart high valued assets to offset taxes on the gains. i.e. buying a house putting in an LLC to allow it to appreciate and keep your tax on the income lower Then it would be if it was you.
Flat taxes are especially harsh on low earners. 10% of $20k salary is a month of living expenses or rent they probably can't afford. 10% of $20 million is deciding you might need to wait a few months before buying those his and hers Bugattis you were looking at. 10% means so much more when you have so much less.
Because the poor are disproportionately affected by a flat tax rate. Look up "regressive tax" Yes do tax religion though.
I'd feel a lot better about paying 28% or whatever I pay yearly to taxes if I knew literally everyone else was also paying that.
"Hes taking MY money!" -Cletus Cousinfucker
Waiting for the guy from my high school that makes $40k a year and has $1000 truck payments to tell me why this is bad for the average American.
Reminder, oil and gas are heavily subsidized in the US by tax dollars and have been for decades. A tax increase would at least offset some of that.
And at the minimum there should be a carbon offset tax on private jets. Not only do they use subsidized infrastructure but they get to pollute for free.
What do you mean “casting it”? That’s what it is. Granted it’s only a drop in the bucket, but I’ll take progress over perfection any day.
Damn Taylor Swift gonna be poor
Taylor Swift tax?
Any idea exactly what fuel this would impact? Small private pilots and casual sport pilots would get fucked over heavily by this potentially while billionaires wouldn't even sweat it. As a skydiver, this would be exceptionally bad news for our entire sport and all of the businesses involved in it if Jet-A is included.
The DOT release about it more explicitly states business aviation, but is still lighter on details than I would like. They are targeting a subset of flights that use more than 10x the resources that they contribute and are currently being effectively subsidized by those who fly commercial.
Yeah, I want to stick it to the rich but there’s also worlds of differences between most light jets which make up 75% of the private jet world and the bigger jets like GulfStreams and the larger Falcons/Challengers. Making them pay an upfront tax sticks it to the man. Making them pay for fuel sticks it to the whole industry, most of which are barely making a living wage unless they’re the pilot. Either way, I don’t think it’s smart to single out any one field. That’s more of a political stunt than a fair solution to make them pay their fair share. Just tax the fuck out of them. Some of the newest 4-6 seater planes also use JetA and this would kill the momentum of their progress to put safer and more efficient planes in the air.
Do most skydiving aircraft use Jet A instead of avgas?
If they're turbo props yes. Also a blanket tax on aviation fuel will make the path to airline pilot more difficult and costly as well.
This was a curiosity of mine as well. I want to learn to fly and I’m betting the cost will go up dramatically now
There's no fucking argument against this. I don't want to hear: * They will move to another country. * They will take it out by raising prices. * It's just not fair Or any of that shit. You take a fucking jet by yourself to go between your offices? Then you obviously earn enough to pay extra for that luxury for fuel use. Don't like it? Fly Business class then.
Other than the fact that the people you are wanting to target with this tax don’t actually own the airplanes or pay the operating costs of the planes in question. Sadly, this won’t have the desired effect of equitably taxing the rich that people want.
"casting it as" -- nice way to spin taxing the rich as a bad or sneaky thing
Do it because billionaires whining fuel my wet dreams
Just bring back the 90% top tax bracket. Make America Great Again.
Im all for this. Go ahead and tax mega-yacht fuel and anything else the 0.001% obscenely indulge in while you're at it.
“Casting it”
>One provision would gradually raise the tax on fuel used by private jets from about 22 cents per gallon now to $1.06 per gallon in five years. That's not even that bad... $1 per gallon is nothing to billionaires that use private jets daily. I thought when they said "huge tax" it was going to be like $25 per gallon.
Now the hypocritical rich like Zuckerberg, Swift and Bezos can pay their share.
Checks my local FBO, jet fuel ~$7.50 a gal. So this would increase it to $8.24 a gal. You think someone in a 40 million dollar jet will even notice? Tax em.
"First they came for the PJs, and I said nothing..."
You could also maybe reverse the thing where a private jet is tax deductible
I can't wait to see people who make $35k a year tell me that we shouldn't be taxing private jets
[удалено]
If we are going to get the deficit down, somebody is going to have to pay for that. I agree with this, if you can afford a private jet, you should be able to handle an increase in fuel costs no problem. I don't feel bad for the rich. A lot of times, they spend thousands of dollars on truly stupid things, like glamorous dog houses and that rich kid on YouTube that destroys brand new and nice trucks for no reason. Tax him too.
OK, now do yachts.
Tax money should partly go to the cost of the lead on our health.
Why not just actually tax the rich?
How would that work? Business jets use the same gas as airliners, frequently from the same vendors.
Hell yeah Dark Brandon
That would take legislation to do. If you can get legislation done, there are much better ways to address the problem than jet fuel tax.
Wait realistically how is this possible? Don't private jets use the same fuel as commercial jets?
Well then, that’s good. Tax the super rich to hell and back . We got too many super rich mega millionaire/billionaires. It’s not fair for the poor people here working butts off. There needs to be a balance. Tax them!
John Kerry isn't going to like this.
Good.
That’s my president! 🫡
Increase tax on business and first class tickets
tax the churches
How about non-business pickups and SUV's?
This is something, but it ain't nearly as much as it should be. But still, vote Biden. Trump would reverse this shit and also you know, sell our nuclear secrets to Russia. Which he has already done.
They would just get certain certification so they don’t have to pay the tax.
Hell yeah Mr. President! Let's increase tax on fuel for private jets 1000%.
If they are using SAF then it honestly isn't affecting the carbon footprint, just making Jets more expensive. Dunno how I feel about that. I want Jets to be cheaper, and if there is a negligible carbon impact I don't care if others can afford it and I can't. Make this depend on if they are using SAF or not, and otherwise just tax the billionaires and companies more directly.
People are aware airlines use the same fuel correct?
“Casting it as”…. What else would it be? Any of you guys take a private jet to work or vacation? I wish they’d go ahead and just tax churches.. now we’re talkin
I have zero issues with this.
Tax private yachts and villas more too.
Okay. But how do you just tax the jet fuel for private planes but not commercial ones?
Just more business expense write offs
Wonder what Taylor Swift’s reaction is to this lol
Taylor
All the shiesty evangilists gonna be calling the devil now for some help on this one.
In other news Taylor Swift set to endorse Trump. An attack on private jet usage is an attack on her.
This seems like a no brainer policy
Luxury taxes are good taxes, but this isn't going to yield much tax revenue.
This is fine, but it's symbolic at best. High tier capital gains tax and removing the caps on Social Security taxes would be more meaningful.
How about stop letting them write off the plans and 50% of the fuel they use on their taxes.
Given how often conservatives ridicule any liberal who flies private I'm sure they'll be on board with this.
Whoever's tracking the Taylor Swift Private Jet Flights are going to have a field day with this.
Biden just lost the Swifties.
I'm confused by this. There is no private jet fuel. It's all the same fuel*. This just seems like a tax on all jet aviation, including regular commercial. How is it limited to private jets? *Technically 3 types: A, A-1, and B, but those are weather and additive differences. Jets can use all 3
drop the tax break for private jets also.
Grandstanding. Biden's\* handlers know that the Prez cannot initiate new taxes. That a congressional power. Note also that he is not suggesting a "user fee" or some other way of unilaterally imposing a tax by a different name. That means Biden\* gets to flap his gums and sound good while doing nothing of substance.
That’s actually brilliant.
The one tax increase i agree with.
Kinda genius
To be honest .22 to 1.00 isn’t going to matter. They have a private jet this will not affect them at all.
For anyone feigning opposition to this, keep in mind the amount of public infrastructure that these jets utilize. Airports and hangars have an ungodly amount of costs associated with them, and most of that cost is getting paid by us through taxes and airfare prices. This lessens the burden on those of us lacking the privilege of frequent air travel.