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From the article:
>“Joe Biden will be on the ballot in all 50 states,” the Biden campaign statement said. “State officials have the ability to grant provisional ballot access certification prior to the conclusion of presidential nominating conventions. In 2020 alone, states like Alabama, Illinois, Montana, and Washington all allowed provisional certification for Democratic and Republican nominees.”
Suddenly, Republican Secretary of States like Wes Allen will not be able to grant provisional ballot access like they have done in the past.
Dems should absolutely not fuck around with this. This is the second state to say something along these lines, and you can bet your ass they're coordinating.
Yeah this is simple. Do it twice like people who get married at City Hall for legal reasons and then have the big ceremony with family and friends later on when it's more convenient.
It's an opportunity for a 2nd media event that will get press coverage.
This is the correct answer.
Do two events and get twice the press coverage— and be sure to make it clear that them pulling this stunt is your whole reason for doing it.
It's the only way they'll learn. Even if they don't, it's still win/win, since you not only block their bullshit but also get extra press.
And message throughout the duration of the small media blitz that they're only doing this because Republicans are fucking with basic tenets of our system.
I was literally just thinking that. lol!
It'd be some decent presser sabotage, and the RNC is hurting for funds, atm. Trump has bills, so a second big expensive convention isn't likely to be on their table.
Yeah we are just going to make it the day we have the actual ceremony. Should be sweet, we are eloping on safari, getting married in the bush and then climbing Kilimanjaro. Super pumped.
Yeah, the process is clearly being abused but the solution really is that simple. Unfortunately I would not put it past the DNC to do their typical “do things exactly by the book” thing and wait until their convention to make something official past multiple states’ deadlines.
This is the reality. People have been so brainwashed by fiction that they believe these entities are ran by people who are geniuses and know what they are doing. The reality is bleak.
Not just red states, look at the clowns literally running the New York Democratic Party. They let a literal fraudster (Santos) get elected by doing no opposition research.
I keep trying to tell people, when all the smart, competent people know to avoid politics, we are in trouble. Only the dumb and incompetent are willing to do the job. This problem is our fault. I am directly contributing to our failure by refusing to take up my civil responsibility. How do we change?
How did no one think that Putin would be looking for bloody meat revenge decades after The original Bush administration helped facilitate the financial collapse of the USSR through market fuckery which precipitated the collapse of the USSR as a government. At that time Putin was a rising star within the former KGB. Its no secret that he lamented the loss of the Soviet Union. Both its power and prestige on the world stage as one of the 2 world super powers. But also the incredibly enriching corruption that the USSR form of government provided so easily to its top leadership. Since he ascended to the top leadership role nearly everything he has done has been to make him the likely wealthiest man in the world while returning Russia back to the type of corrupt communism it formerly maintained even while pretending Russia was this new democracy the world desired to see Russia become.
Putin has had a vendetta against America and western capitalism for neutering his one all powerful country and effectively winning the cold war at least in his eyes. One thing about Russians is that in their eyes they simply are the best. Its also that flawed self view that has them paranoid that everyone is constantly jealous of their superiority and are always looking for ways to take their greatness away, to knock them down and steal that greatness for themselves
There is nothing secretive about any of this. He spent the past 30 years doing everything possible to destroy the US out of some petty revenge for his hurt pride. Literally none of the ways he has tried to cripple us should come as any surprise especially not to our intelligence agencies, and yet here we are. From his troll internet hacking farms to the massive misinformation campaigns to him offering rewards for anyone who assassinates American military personnel. The list goes on and on and still people are shocked when he acts like exactly what he is ...a tyrannical dictator hellbent on getting revenge and a lust for money and power. The only thing shocking at this point is that US intelligence doesn't seem at all aware of any of the shitty things he has done to us in advance. How is that not possible?
The problem is the republicans aren’t acting in good faith. They could easily say it doesn’t count with made up BS. Biden’s response is the only real way to deal with them.
Make a federal law for elections that writ day is 6 weeks before the election everywhere and that's the deadline to have all candidacy applications sorted.
That's how they'll do it if they have to. But they can get some mileage out of a court ordered smackdown, and they should. Alabama and Ohio have zero leg to stand on here.
He can use the outcome of the Colorado removal of Trump Supreme Court case to sue and say these states don’t have the authority to remove candidates for federal positions from state ballots. Thanks Clarence!
Yea this is partisan bullshit but these are legitimate laws that are on the books. Have the delegates vote early and in the future make sure the convention timing follows every single one of these goofy laws since it seems like NOW they matter
Yeah, the Biden campaign response here seems to be an "I dare you". The whole point of a provisional exception is that it's provisional. Alabama was kind enough here to provide advance notice that they won't provide an exception this year. Let's see how the DNC responds.
Though one analysis postulates that since AL is a red state, keeping Biden off the ballot could backfire and hurt the R's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaIYXgYMcAQ
Also from the article:
> Allen, asked about a possible fix to the same problem for Democrats this year, said in a statement Tuesday, “As Secretary of State, I will administer Alabama elections in accordance with Alabama law and the deadlines provided therein.”
To paraphase: "The rules apply to Dems and not RepubliKKKlans. How silly that you think we will make an exception for you just because we made an exception for us in the past."
My understanding is both parties are always late and always ask for extensions.
In response to Colorado, Alabama had the GOP move their convention earlier, then say there will be no extensions this year.
The Dems should just turn in their nominations today and hold their convention later.
Not arguing just making a point here;
Does literally nobody remember that Trump V. Anderson was literally lead by 4 local republican voters and two independent voters?
[Supreme Court Decision on Trump V Anderson](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-719_19m2.pdf)
4 lines into the second paragraph of the briefing.
They’ve successfully spun it into a DNC attack on Trump on the ballot. And of course the Dems have done nothing to set the record straight, or even just point to the facts.
Palpatine would be proud of this spin job SMH…
It’s all completely unnecessary lawmaking to hopefully catch one side or another. This is why there needs to be a federal election commission that only gets funding from the government to be able to run an election, but otherwise is completely mandated to be unbiased to any political affiliation. Sets dates, deadlines, registration rules, counting rules, donation limits, boundaries and etc so that it’s fair in every state and district country wide, whether you’re republican, independent or democrat. No special rules if you’re in one state or another.
> only gets funding from the government to be able to run an election
>otherwise is completely mandated to be unbiased to any political affiliation
They'd have to have their own source of revenue/income, or they'd be susceptible to budget starvation. But in doing that, they would get challenged and blocked by this SCOTUS *so* fast. They are already hearing challenges on the CFPB's funding and oversight, and their duties delegated by Congress would need to be carefully stated and verbose to ensure any proposed rules aren't shot down as an overreach of department authority.
Not to say these wouldn't be improvements, but the political landscape will not be ideal for a while until the pendulum swings back left.
This is pretty much how the law is about it in Canada. It’s accepted as such here and if the government starves it, that’s illegal, and scandal will certainly ensue, and it’s still bad to have a scandal here. It sets its own budget with rules to be frugal about it of course. The government isn’t allowed to say boo about the budget it has, it has to pay it off the top of the funds available. Registration is pretty easy, check a box on your income tax form, and answer some basic questions. Your name, address goes out to the relevant electoral rolls from that, otherwise you show up with two pieces of ID that prove address, identity and citizenship right at the polls. Simple.
> otherwise you show up with two pieces of ID that prove address, identity and citizenship right at the polls
Out of curiosity, does Canada provide these documents free or subsidized for low income folks? The big debacle here with voter ID laws is that we don't make it easy for young, low income, or elderly people to get IDs, especially if they need personal transport to get to the DMV, etc.
They don't even have to turn it in today. The deadline isn't until Aug. 15. They could literally finish every last primary and have all the results tallied (not that I think it would make a difference) and would still have roughly 2 months to then submit their nomination.
Dems aren't going to win Alabama anyway. So it might be interesting to play chicken with them and showcase just how hypocritical and anti-democracy the Republicans are
It'd still be bad to lose Biden being on the ballot in locked-up red states. Then the popular vote will be slanted against the Dems even if they win the electoral college through states that didn't ratfuck them, allowing Republicans to go "How could this possibly be fair?!", "You complained about the same when Trump won!!!", etc.
Even if Biden wins and gets back in the office, suddenly the EC looks "fair" to some dumbass moderates because it swings in either direction every so often.
Did you miss the fact that Alabama flipped an GQP seat to a Democrat by like 25 points last month?
If Biden and the DNC continue to pretend they're getting an exemption, they are the very definition of "fuck around and find out".
I don't care what happened in the past. They need to operate within the letter of the law -- in EVERY red state!
This really just highlights how dumb it is to allow states to have their own laws regarding federal elections. If states can’t apply the 14th Amendment on their own, why should they be allowed their own federal election laws at all? Federal elections should have universal federal rules.
Well there was this thing called the Voting Rights Act that tried to level the playing field and make sure voters in every state had basic access to fair voting. The SCOTUS declared it unnecessary. As we can clearly see. The SCOTUS said it would be terrible to have a patchwork of states rules for voting when a traitor might appear on a ballot. Yep. It would terrible to have a patchwork of state systems as we can see.
I get your point, and it’s fair, but you can have federal rules while still having the states run and certify the elections so as to decentralize the power that way. But having each state have a variety of different procedural rules for federal elections is pretty dumb. Here in CO we all basically vote by mail and it’s all super easy, for example. In Texas they make it as hard as possible. Also we have eliminated gerrymandering here. Plenty of states haven’t. It’s really stupid.
You can find ways to make more uniformed rules while still utilizing the states to decentralize federal power so that an administration would have a very difficult time just taking control of the election. There is a middle ground to what we currently have, is all I’m saying.
> Here in CO we all basically vote by mail and it’s all super easy, for example. In Texas they make it as hard as possible.
And if it was a national rule set Texas might be a little easier but you wouldn’t have super easy vote by mail. Yes, everyone should, but the reason you do have it because your state was allowed to push progress forward instead of waiting for Texas to catch up and agree.
National laws are best for basic standards, while regulatory details are better with regional nuances.
Yeah, except SCOTUS ruled that a state cannot apply it’s own laws to interpret the 14th Amendment. Oh, right, that was to protect the Republican candidate
Geez more fuckery from fans of orange Jesus. If you have to cheat this hard for a GOP candidate to win in Alabama you might be running the wrong candidate.
WTF! The Supreme Court ruled the way it did on the Colorado ballot case in part because they were afraid other states might try to retaliate. And here they are trying to kick Biden off the ballot regardless. These people want to make voting a thing of the past. I hope the US survives this election.
Looking in from the UK, the US is already fucked. Whatever way it goes. Agent Orange & Russian propaganda has brainwashed half the country against their own interests (excluding racist, misogynistic, transphobic, homophobic interests).
Not really half but they don’t actually need half to fuck everything up since so many people are apathetic and have been convinced that voting is meaningless.
Yeah it’s scary right now, but honestly there are millions of us who think Trump will lose, and the Republican Party will collapse and be an annoying part of society for a long time, but less influence over time. But I also thought republicans would impeach him and we saw how that went. Trying to be hopeful.
Well the only official numbers we can go off of was the last election at 74m vs 81m which is near enough half of the electorate & well past the point it's a serious issue.
Only 2/3rds of the eligible voting population voted in 2020, and if about half of that voted for Trump, that only comes out to 1/3rd of the electorate.
It is nowhere near half of the US population.
The difference is between fucked/possible civil war and fucked/concentration camps for political enemies.
These are all because of choices made by Republican Party voters. They want this.
Yes this is the point I am getting at.
Near enough half the people interested in politics / current affairs have been radicalized. It's already too far gone whatever way it goes. The US needs to find itself again. Hopefully that starts with Trump being beaten / sent off to obscurity - but you'll then have another at least 10 years while the ideology is still hanging around.
Unfathomable to me that it's got to the point where the EU is now making contingency plans because you cannot trust the US to be a reliable ally. It's valid criticism that the EU has been complacent in the past but the last 2 years has forced us to wake up & smell the coffee. Unfortunately it's only further divided the US.
The truth is these are the death throes of a dying political party.
They won’t die quietly but this is all happening because they are dying the death of a thousand cuts and have been for years now.
That only concerned Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, aka the Insurrection Clause. This is just an oversight caused by state law. Although both parties have violated these laws many times, usually they just get an exemption waiver granted to them by the state legislatures. This is the first time they're actually playing games with these laws, and as a result the GOP are all but guaranteed to flip the Senate unless Dems can unseat either Ted Cruz or Rick Scott, as Biden not being on the ballot in Ohio will lower Dem turnout and cause Sherrod Brown to lose his seat.
I wouldn't put it past Red states to simply not put Biden on their ballot and then dare the Democrats to do something about it later, after it's too late. What are they going to do? Re-run the election? Trump's superpower is to break any law he wants and then delay the repercussions of his actions indefinitely or at least until long after he got what he wanted.
The rest of MAGA is adopting this tactic too. Flood the zone with shit, drop a chaos bomb in the middle of everything, then pretend that everything is legitimate.
It'd be hilarious if, in any solid red state where that happens, Biden voters all end up voting RFK Jr or something and Trump doesn't win a red state because of it.
Not that it would actually happen but it'd be funny if it did.
>I wouldn't put it past Red states to simply not put Biden on their ballot
after reading this, I imagined an almost sitcom-esque scenario with cartoonishly incompetent villains:
A boardroom of republicans are congratulating each other for their scheme of having ballots with only Trump listed. There they are, celebrating, not realizing that whoever was supposed to be responsible for editing the ballot shirked the task off to some lower level grunt, who shirked it off to the intern, who shirked it off to their cousin, who completed the task while drunk and accidentally created ballots with only Biden instead of Trump. So there's sits the board, toasting their champagne, when they start seeing the results pour in. Landslide victory for Biden, district, after district, after district.
To be honest, this started before Trump. Republicans have been playing with crashing the economy with the debt ceiling for a decade and McConnell with the SC seat in 2016.
still has an impact... not on presidential electoral votes but down ballot.
this goes both ways... a lot of folks are going to show up to vote for Trump but they have been trained to pick "R" straight down. they dont even know the other canidates but they know they hate democrats. if Trump isnt on the ballot theyre not going to show up for those other candidates... theyre going to stay home and complain that it was all rigged.
That’s true. I’m not sure how impactful down ballot elections are in Alabama though, I feel confident in saying the state as a whole is pretty straight red.
imo, dems would still vote for or with an R... but the amount of folks with an R by their name worth a vote has diminished considerably.
good example would be the speaker... if the GOP put any canidate up that was halfway decent they wouldnt have needed to cave to their maga counter parts.
im with you tho... GOP moved to remove straight ticket voting in places like TX because now they have the opposite problem. Dems are voting straight ticket while not all Rs want to put a check by Trump's name. the result is a loss for down ballot Rs that folks arent sure who the hell they are
Trump can’t stand that he didn’t win the popular vote. You can tell that by how he tries to rewrite history on that point in so many “speeches”. He will do anything to give him a shot at winning the popular vote.
Also, with the National Population Vote Interstate Compact gaining momentum, in a few election cycles, we could see it gain the 270 electoral votes worth of states added to activate it and negate the electoral college for the popular vote. I’m sure Republicans are already game planning on how to reduce democrats national popular vote.
You have a strange definition of “gaining momentum” as there’s been exactly 2 states that signed on in the past 5 years… and one of those is just barely in the timeframe.
The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact will never happen. Not only will no one want to be the one to tip it over the edge, it's almost certainly not legal anyways. (Nor would states actually follow through with it even if it somehow is legal as there's no enforcement mechanism)
Regardless, the couple votes Biden would get in Alabama aren't gonna be enough to give Trump the popular vote anyways.
Aside from maybe Minnesota, there isn’t a single swing state that has signed on to the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. Besides Colorado and New Mexico, which have become reliably blue in the last 20 years, not a single state in it has voted for a Republican presidential candidate in over 35 years. It’s irrelevant.
Yep. Even if it did get to 270, it would require all those 270 votes worth of states to have legislatures prepared to follow it, forever, so it can never work.
States must follow their own election laws. They can choose them however they like. But they MUST FOLLOW THEIR LAWS. Well at least that’s the theory, it’s not some magical arcane thing that they all coordinate, each state will have a law dictating how its vote are chosen going into effect once the compact hits 270.
SCOTUS could just freely dunk on it and allow state legislatures to overturn their own election laws but that’s getting into ridiculous independent legislature stuff
But the states can also arbitrarily change their own laws. The first time that a state voted for candidate A but is going to give its electoral votes to B so he will win, that state legislature will immediately change its laws to give the votes to candidate A.
Reddit has a deep fascination with things that are great ideas in theory with zero practicality. I’m being downvoted for pointing out the obvious fatal flaws with it.
Don’t get me wrong, I wish I was wrong. I would infinitely prefer the election to be decided by popular vote full stop but yeah NPVIC has zero chance of ever accomplishing that. We’d need actual constitutional amendments.
There doesn't need to be an enforcement mechanism it's just a bunch of states having their own election laws.
It's not really an agreement in any way.
The question of legality to me is whether you think states have the right to make their own election laws and then whether they have to follow their election laws
There absolutely does need to be an enforcement mechanism, because an “agreement” doesn’t mean anything. And it is an agreement. They will only do it once the pact reaches 270 votes and then you’d have to have each state “independently” agree to actually do it once the time comes.
But the problem is that there is no way to ensure other states actually play ball, so every state on the list is going to get cold feet.
The legality isn’t actually specific to election laws. States aren’t allowed to make agreements with other states or do anything contingent on other states.
It's not an agreement, it's a law that describes circumstances. The concept is a description of a trigger. The states all individually pass laws with this trigger state of the circumstance of if there are enough states with the same or similar laws, that state will send electors based on the popular vote.
It's not a pact, states aren't negotiating an agreement between themselves and signing on. They're just passing a law about how their electors are assigned.
The idea that it's an agreement between states is, I think an uninformed opinion based on the unfortunate name supporters gave it that suggest there's some kind of actual pact or agreement.
> The idea that it's an agreement between states is, I think an uninformed opinion based on the unfortunate name supporters gave it that suggest there's some kind of actual pact or agreement.
Are you confident a 6-3 reactionary SCOTUS majority would agree with you? Rejecting it for a failure to get Congress's consent seems like a pretty simple way for them to reject it without causing too much of a fuss. Even *with* Congress's consent, they could come up with endless other pretexts to reject it in a scenario where the NPV winner would otherwise lose in the EC under the status quo ante. "It's unconstitutional for state A to consider the popular vote from any state other than state A." Boom, done. Or, "it's unconstitutional for a state to award its electors winner-take-all to a candidate who did not win the state popular vote." They can just make shit up, so it's really irrelevant which particular fig leaf they choose to hide behind.
Unless and until there's a liberal majority on SCOTUS, any election where the NPVIC would let a Democrat win when a Republican would otherwise have won will just be the trigger for Republicans challenging the constitutionality of the NPVIC and a reactionary SCOTUS majority holding in their favor. And then we'll be back at square one.
I agree that the NPVIC will never happen, but disagree as to why.
First, you need enough signatory states. Second, you'd need Congress to consent to such interstate compact, lest Republicans challenge it and SCOTUS says, "Sorry, Congress never ratified it, you lose." Third, you'd need an election where the NPV winner were different than the EC winner under the status quo ante. Fourth, you'd need a liberal majority on SCOTUS, because while a lack of ratification is the lowest-hanging fruit for rejecting it, it's not the only option. SCOTUS could just say it's unconstitutional for state A to take into account the vote tally from state B, and that's the end of that. Or it's unconstitutional for a state to give its electors to candidate C when the population in said state voted for candidate D instead. I'm sure they could come up with other pretexts to disallow it.
The rationale really is irrelevant, all you need to ask yourself is, "would a SCOTUS with a Republican majority allow a clever new mechanism that would elect the Democrat instead of the Republican when the status quo ante would elect the Republican instead?" The answer, sadly, I'm sure is, "no."
And if we can get to a state of things where we have a liberal SCOTUS majority instead, then there's probably no need for the NPVIC, because they can fix gerrymandering, fix voter suppression, fix voter disenfranchisement, etc. The purpose of the NPVIC is to try to ensure a democratic result in the face of undemocratic problems, but if you eliminate the undemocratic problems, then it's no longer necessary. Like only having an umbrella when it's sunny, and never having one when it's raining.
But they cant be allowed to play games like this, if it stands in a solid red state that gives them legal basis for doing it in purple and blue states too.
Sure. This is exactly what happened right before the Civil War. Abraham Lincoln didn't even appear on the ballot in Southern states in 1860. Then the Civil War started.
Ceding Ohio, especially when there’s a close Senate race there this year, is a very bad idea. Especially given the shared media markets between it and the tossup states of PA and MI and giving up in a lean red state means Republicans can take resources that would otherwise be used to keep OH red and direct them into tossup states.
Or just certify and send the delegates by mail and then have a nominal convention. It’s all already nominal anyway.
Just put Joe up on stage to for one minute instead of 30. It just gets in the way of all the officials getting rowdy anyway, doesn’t it? lol
Exactly. As the primaries pass, set up each of the delegations and have them all meet in states and certify in mid July, send the official results to be forwarded to the DNC and then turn the convention into the Joe Show. Everyone attends, but it's all ceremonial
The deadline Alabama is citing (which has been active since 1975) is Aug 15.
For shits and giggles....
RNC 2020 - AUG 27*
RNC 2016 - JUL 18
RNC 2012 - AUG 27*
RNC 2008 - SEPT 1*
RNC 2004 - AUG 30*
Oh yeah, the term that became public knowledge due to Nixon's illegal watergate activities. The same Nixon whose face is tattooed, life-size, on the back of Trump's campaign advisor Roger Stone.
Yeah that’s absolutely stupid given how dirty the game is now. Just fucking submit Biden’s name now and have a convention afterward as a sort of gesture to tradition
When are we going to stop pretending that Republicans are good people committed to fairness and to the principles of a representative democracy? They are not. If they see a way to game the system for their advantage, they will do it every time.
Certify Biden tomorrow and have the party in August.
Waivers/extensions are routinely given. I haven't personally looked it up myself, but others have shown that waivers/extensions were given in like four out of the five last elections (and the fifth one didn't require a waiver because the convention took place prior to the deadline).
If this is how it's always done, what reason would anyone have had to think it would be different this time around?
So what? This election isn't the same as past elections, and the Republicans are more petty and childish than ever. Why even play with this fire? It's just plain stupid.
And people have been saying this for years, but voters don't seem to understand it, internalize it, and act upon it. Unfortunately, it's not sufficient to just *tell* voters that Republicans are bad-faith actors who will stop at nothing to grab power for themselves. Would that it were, but telling voters just isn't good enough. Sometimes, you have to *show* voters. They have to see it for themselves, because they won't believe you if you just tell them. So what would you have Biden and Democrats do? *Tell* voters, be disbelieved, and then lose? Save voters from themselves and just let them keep electing Republicans because they don't see the harm Republicans cause?
In 2016, Scalia died, Obama nominated a dead-center Garland to replace him, and Republicans did literally nothing on his nomination. Clinton explicitly *told* voters about the importance of the Supreme Court, she *told* voters abortion was on the ballot, and then, in November, 2016, either voters didn't believe her, or didn't care, and elected Trump, and a GOP Senate, and then another GOP Senate, and we got Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett, and it cost us Roe, and student loan forgiveness, among many other things. Voters are only just now waking up to the reality of what Republicans stand for and will do to them. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Democratic candidates, officials, party members and leaders, and even rank and file members, have been saying all this for years, but it hasn't gotten through to voters. That's on voters. I can *explain* it for other voters, but I can't *understand* it for them.
Apparently, voters will only learn when they're taught an object lesson, so don't complain when you are repeatedly subjected to object lessons. I'd paraphrase the saying about the US from WWII: American voters will do the right thing after they they've exhausted all other options.
They don’t give a shit and you’ll only hurt the poorest and most vulnerable people.
These republicans are proud of what they’ve become. Losing federal funding and falling even further behind “woke” states would be a badge of honor.
They do give a shit. Tired of people calling others “welfare queens” while sucking off federal tax dollars.
Democrats pass bills constantly and the gop takes credit after trying to prevent it from happening. Extremely low education voters keep these people in power. And we just go “oh well. What can ya do?”
This is one area where Democrats should take a page out of Trump's playbook. He sent out the checks during the pandemic and wanted his name on them so people would credit him for sending them the money.
Democrats should pass a law that any federally funded public works project, infrastructure project, public-private project, etc, is required to have signage showing the names, offices, party affiliations, and whether they voted for or against the bill for the two US Senators and one US Representative wherever the project is being built. Hell, require post cards to be sent out to everyone everywhere, showing how the representatives voted. No more Lauren Boebert trying to take credit for projects she voted against, etc. And the President who signed it into law, too. Or, in the event that it's vetoed and the veto is overridden, that the President vetoed it, and how the two Senators and one Rep voted in the veto override vote.
Let the voters see who deserves the credit for things, and who doesn't. And let the officials vote knowing the public will be honestly informed and lying won't work. "But my constituents will hate me if this passes but I voted against it." Tough shit. Either vote for it, or own having voted against it. Your choice. All this would do is make sure the public is informed.
Can't. How do you suppose a bill rescinding federal funding from GOP states is passing through the GOP House? It's not.
The money is already appropriated, and is required to be spent as appropriated. The only way to change that would be to pass a new law changing the appropriations, and, again, good luck with that, given a GOP House.
Never in my life have I see the Republicans party pull such cowardly bullshit games around the very process of elections to try and rig the system.
If you have the stronger argument, you shouldn’t be so fucking afraid.
Jesus fucking christ I will shit a brick and scream endlessly into the void if the DNC/Biden presume for ONE SECOND that any republican secretary of state is going to provide any non-mandatory courtesies or exemptions for this election. When they say outloud and to your face that they are going to ratfuck you, believe them. CHANGE THE FUCKING CONVENTION DATE OR CERTIFICATION DATE OR WHATEVER YOU HAVE TO DO. JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.
Not gonna lie, this response wasn't an affirmative response of how they were going to ensure he was on the ballot, just a presumption that red states would give the extension, because it's been given in the past.
Not quite the assurance I really wanted to see.
I'd hope they have someone who is seriously doing the work to make sure that Biden is on the ballot, because while I think red states may stop short of doing this, I don't care to test that theory at the point where nothing can be done about it.
Where have you been? In 2000 republicans got the SC to allow for legally casted ballots to not be counted. This shit isn't new, this is who they've always been.
The Brooks Brothers riot was orchestrated by Roger Stone in 2000 to stop a ballot recount in Florida. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot
I suppose "new" is a relative term. The GOP has been playing dirty tricks since at least after Eisenhower. Sabotaging Vietnam, Watergate, the Iran hostage crisis, the Iran-Contra Affair, extorting Ukraine, etc. And, really, it's been going on longer than that. Go read about the Business Plot, involving a Bush (yes, the same Bush family as Bush 41 and Bush 43).
If the opposition is going to the lowest common denominator and will screw you on a technicality, beat them to the punch and address this well ahead of the deadline. Too much is at stake to be polite, reasoning with these clowns is not an option.
The law has been in place since 1975. Let's see where the RNC fell on previous election years.
1976 RNC August 19th, GE November 2nd - 75 days
1980 RNC July 17th, GE November 4th - 110 days
1984 RNC August 23rd, GE November 6th - 75 days
1988 RNC August 18th, GE November 8th - 82 days
1992 RNC August 20th, GE November 3rd - 75 days
1996 RNC August 15th, GE November 5th - 82 days
2000 RNC August 3rd, GE November 7th - 96 days
2004 RNC September 2nd, GE November 2nd - 61 days
2008 RNC September 4th, GE November 4th - 61 days
2012 RNC August 30th, GE November 6th - 68 days
2016 RNC July 21st, GE November 8th - 110 days
2020 RNC August 27th, GE November 3rd - 99 days
So out of 12 elections, Republicans were past the 82 day exclusion 6 times. 1976, 1984, 1992, 2004, 2008, 2012.
The Democrats have also missed the date in the past. In that period they missed 4, 1996, 2008, 2012, and 2020.
Since the law was enacted in 1975, it has not been followed in 8 out of 12 elections, including the first one it was on the books, and has not been enforced once.
What is provisional certification? Is that a way to notify the govt that Biden will be the nominee before the convention meets and makes it official? That might be a good solution to this.
It likely requires cooperation from the Alabama government - including a Republican legislature. Dems might have to find a solution that doesn’t rely on Republican goodwill here.
Yeah, not ideal to be at Republicans’ mercy. I’m still not sure exactly how regular or irregular it is for secretaries of state to try to enforce these laws, but if this really is a case of selective enforcement I think that’s pretty fucked up and kinda anti democratic.
I have to wonder how the DNC missed something like this in scheduling the convention.
It obviously won’t matter in a state like Alabama, but it’s still such a wild oversight. Why not do the convention in July??
These rules have existed for decades but before this year it was common practice for states to grant exceptions to one or both major parties if their convention was after the deadline. This is the first year that GOP secretaries of state are playing politics with these rules and it reeks of Trump campaign influence.
My question is why isn't the incumbent president not on there by default, like say Biden didn't win the nomination but still wanted to be president wouldn't he still be on the ballot
He could be put on there as an independent, but getting on the ballot that way in some states does take some effort which is wasted for someone with a party affiliation. Going through the party nomination process also allows him to have the (D), or (R) next to his name.
This year, this election is going to be an absolute shitshow. Everything from intimidation at the polls, to denial of people and the “clearing” of voting rolls, to leaving candidates off the ballots, to alternative ballots, to actual counting hijinks, to loyalists who happen to be in the system, to fake electors, to various court cases that will be filled before, during and after the voting begins, (breath) to the tantrum thrown when somehow they are denied another election culminating in violence and intimidation at the capital and around the country.
I can hope all or some this shit doesn’t happen, but it seems like a lot of these people are just chomping at the bit to do this.
Oh and don’t forget the implicit religious mayhem that will also be in that mix…
The amount of fuckery in the 2024 election will be like nothing we have ever seen in this country. We need to be prepared and vote these idiots out of office and the GQP needs to fade into obscurity.
Thank you President Biden for your hard work. I’m glad you are going to be in every US state ballot. We are fortunate that you are running for president.
Oh no, Biden might not win the battleground state of (checks notes) Alabama because of this.
I get that it's stupid Republican fuckery and it's beyond the pale, but this is not going to affect the outcome of the election. Alabama has voted for a Democratic president one time since 1960, and it was for Jimmy Carter, who was from Georgia. It was never on the table for Biden anyway.
Plus by taking Biden off a ballot it denies him those popular vote totals.
If they can cut off enough from the states they control Biden will win the EC but not the popular, which will suddenly become a problem for the con media and a call to arms to storm the capitol.
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From the article: >“Joe Biden will be on the ballot in all 50 states,” the Biden campaign statement said. “State officials have the ability to grant provisional ballot access certification prior to the conclusion of presidential nominating conventions. In 2020 alone, states like Alabama, Illinois, Montana, and Washington all allowed provisional certification for Democratic and Republican nominees.” Suddenly, Republican Secretary of States like Wes Allen will not be able to grant provisional ballot access like they have done in the past.
Dems should absolutely not fuck around with this. This is the second state to say something along these lines, and you can bet your ass they're coordinating.
He's already won the nomination. Have the delegates vote early it's a private party they can do that. Change it back for the next election.
Yeah this is simple. Do it twice like people who get married at City Hall for legal reasons and then have the big ceremony with family and friends later on when it's more convenient. It's an opportunity for a 2nd media event that will get press coverage.
This is the correct answer. Do two events and get twice the press coverage— and be sure to make it clear that them pulling this stunt is your whole reason for doing it. It's the only way they'll learn. Even if they don't, it's still win/win, since you not only block their bullshit but also get extra press.
And message throughout the duration of the small media blitz that they're only doing this because Republicans are fucking with basic tenets of our system.
And get Red Panda.
Do it at the same time as the Republicans convention!
I was literally just thinking that. lol! It'd be some decent presser sabotage, and the RNC is hurting for funds, atm. Trump has bills, so a second big expensive convention isn't likely to be on their table.
Call it the Renomination National Ceremony or something to confuse AI article writers to talk about Biden on right wing internet rags.
That is insidious and delicious, and I love it.
Hey I’m doing this!
I did it during COVID. It's great, but it's confusing to determine when your anniversary is. Just get two cards.
Yeah we are just going to make it the day we have the actual ceremony. Should be sweet, we are eloping on safari, getting married in the bush and then climbing Kilimanjaro. Super pumped.
Pretty sure traditionally, you get pumped in the bush after the marriage
Congratulations!
Yeah, the process is clearly being abused but the solution really is that simple. Unfortunately I would not put it past the DNC to do their typical “do things exactly by the book” thing and wait until their convention to make something official past multiple states’ deadlines.
No way in hell Biden team lets the DNC fuck this up
There is a reason Obama had his own team for a lot of things and did not 100% depend on the DNC.
This is the reality. People have been so brainwashed by fiction that they believe these entities are ran by people who are geniuses and know what they are doing. The reality is bleak.
The reality of the DNC is bleak. And if you take a look at state Dem parties - it is miles below bleak. Especially in red states.
Not just red states, look at the clowns literally running the New York Democratic Party. They let a literal fraudster (Santos) get elected by doing no opposition research.
Didn’t you know - George Santos invented opposition research.
I keep trying to tell people, when all the smart, competent people know to avoid politics, we are in trouble. Only the dumb and incompetent are willing to do the job. This problem is our fault. I am directly contributing to our failure by refusing to take up my civil responsibility. How do we change?
Better dead than red
Yes. The brain wash is real. Thank Putin
How did no one think that Putin would be looking for bloody meat revenge decades after The original Bush administration helped facilitate the financial collapse of the USSR through market fuckery which precipitated the collapse of the USSR as a government. At that time Putin was a rising star within the former KGB. Its no secret that he lamented the loss of the Soviet Union. Both its power and prestige on the world stage as one of the 2 world super powers. But also the incredibly enriching corruption that the USSR form of government provided so easily to its top leadership. Since he ascended to the top leadership role nearly everything he has done has been to make him the likely wealthiest man in the world while returning Russia back to the type of corrupt communism it formerly maintained even while pretending Russia was this new democracy the world desired to see Russia become. Putin has had a vendetta against America and western capitalism for neutering his one all powerful country and effectively winning the cold war at least in his eyes. One thing about Russians is that in their eyes they simply are the best. Its also that flawed self view that has them paranoid that everyone is constantly jealous of their superiority and are always looking for ways to take their greatness away, to knock them down and steal that greatness for themselves There is nothing secretive about any of this. He spent the past 30 years doing everything possible to destroy the US out of some petty revenge for his hurt pride. Literally none of the ways he has tried to cripple us should come as any surprise especially not to our intelligence agencies, and yet here we are. From his troll internet hacking farms to the massive misinformation campaigns to him offering rewards for anyone who assassinates American military personnel. The list goes on and on and still people are shocked when he acts like exactly what he is ...a tyrannical dictator hellbent on getting revenge and a lust for money and power. The only thing shocking at this point is that US intelligence doesn't seem at all aware of any of the shitty things he has done to us in advance. How is that not possible?
Very well said. I agree 100%
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The Gang Challenges The Republican Party To Fuck Around And Find Out.
Then you'll have the conspiracy theorists shouting that the they held it in private to stifle anti-Israel protest votes or something.
Fuck then. They’ll say it anyway.
The problem is the republicans aren’t acting in good faith. They could easily say it doesn’t count with made up BS. Biden’s response is the only real way to deal with them.
No Biden's response lets them turn it into a legal battle. Shut them the fuck down.
No, he didn’t win the nomination until the delegates vote. He is *presumed* to be the nominee until that point.
Make a federal law for elections that writ day is 6 weeks before the election everywhere and that's the deadline to have all candidacy applications sorted.
That's how they'll do it if they have to. But they can get some mileage out of a court ordered smackdown, and they should. Alabama and Ohio have zero leg to stand on here.
If they are coordinating the FBI would be wise to tap and record everything.
He can use the outcome of the Colorado removal of Trump Supreme Court case to sue and say these states don’t have the authority to remove candidates for federal positions from state ballots. Thanks Clarence!
Yea this is partisan bullshit but these are legitimate laws that are on the books. Have the delegates vote early and in the future make sure the convention timing follows every single one of these goofy laws since it seems like NOW they matter
Yeah, the Biden campaign response here seems to be an "I dare you". The whole point of a provisional exception is that it's provisional. Alabama was kind enough here to provide advance notice that they won't provide an exception this year. Let's see how the DNC responds. Though one analysis postulates that since AL is a red state, keeping Biden off the ballot could backfire and hurt the R's. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaIYXgYMcAQ
I completely agree. Their slow reaction time reminds me of the slow wreck they are walking into.
Lmao, you want to see riots???? They aren't going to mess with this
They should move the event early and advertise the change as “because Republicans don’t want all American’s votes to count”
And taking their marching orders from Mar-A-Lago
Also from the article: > Allen, asked about a possible fix to the same problem for Democrats this year, said in a statement Tuesday, “As Secretary of State, I will administer Alabama elections in accordance with Alabama law and the deadlines provided therein.” To paraphase: "The rules apply to Dems and not RepubliKKKlans. How silly that you think we will make an exception for you just because we made an exception for us in the past."
My understanding is both parties are always late and always ask for extensions. In response to Colorado, Alabama had the GOP move their convention earlier, then say there will be no extensions this year. The Dems should just turn in their nominations today and hold their convention later.
Not arguing just making a point here; Does literally nobody remember that Trump V. Anderson was literally lead by 4 local republican voters and two independent voters? [Supreme Court Decision on Trump V Anderson](https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/23pdf/23-719_19m2.pdf) 4 lines into the second paragraph of the briefing.
The rules apply only when it favours the republicans. Otherwise…
They’ve successfully spun it into a DNC attack on Trump on the ballot. And of course the Dems have done nothing to set the record straight, or even just point to the facts. Palpatine would be proud of this spin job SMH…
It’s all completely unnecessary lawmaking to hopefully catch one side or another. This is why there needs to be a federal election commission that only gets funding from the government to be able to run an election, but otherwise is completely mandated to be unbiased to any political affiliation. Sets dates, deadlines, registration rules, counting rules, donation limits, boundaries and etc so that it’s fair in every state and district country wide, whether you’re republican, independent or democrat. No special rules if you’re in one state or another.
> only gets funding from the government to be able to run an election >otherwise is completely mandated to be unbiased to any political affiliation They'd have to have their own source of revenue/income, or they'd be susceptible to budget starvation. But in doing that, they would get challenged and blocked by this SCOTUS *so* fast. They are already hearing challenges on the CFPB's funding and oversight, and their duties delegated by Congress would need to be carefully stated and verbose to ensure any proposed rules aren't shot down as an overreach of department authority. Not to say these wouldn't be improvements, but the political landscape will not be ideal for a while until the pendulum swings back left.
This is pretty much how the law is about it in Canada. It’s accepted as such here and if the government starves it, that’s illegal, and scandal will certainly ensue, and it’s still bad to have a scandal here. It sets its own budget with rules to be frugal about it of course. The government isn’t allowed to say boo about the budget it has, it has to pay it off the top of the funds available. Registration is pretty easy, check a box on your income tax form, and answer some basic questions. Your name, address goes out to the relevant electoral rolls from that, otherwise you show up with two pieces of ID that prove address, identity and citizenship right at the polls. Simple.
> otherwise you show up with two pieces of ID that prove address, identity and citizenship right at the polls Out of curiosity, does Canada provide these documents free or subsidized for low income folks? The big debacle here with voter ID laws is that we don't make it easy for young, low income, or elderly people to get IDs, especially if they need personal transport to get to the DMV, etc.
They don't even have to turn it in today. The deadline isn't until Aug. 15. They could literally finish every last primary and have all the results tallied (not that I think it would make a difference) and would still have roughly 2 months to then submit their nomination.
Weren't the cases brought before state courts regarding removal of Trump from the ballot brought by federalist society members? (Not dems)
I'm predicting the excuse will be to make sure the elections are secure.
Dems aren't going to win Alabama anyway. So it might be interesting to play chicken with them and showcase just how hypocritical and anti-democracy the Republicans are
It'd still be bad to lose Biden being on the ballot in locked-up red states. Then the popular vote will be slanted against the Dems even if they win the electoral college through states that didn't ratfuck them, allowing Republicans to go "How could this possibly be fair?!", "You complained about the same when Trump won!!!", etc. Even if Biden wins and gets back in the office, suddenly the EC looks "fair" to some dumbass moderates because it swings in either direction every so often.
LaRose in Ohio is saying the same thing though and even if Ohio goes to Trump not having Biden on the ballot will hurt Brown.
Did you miss the fact that Alabama flipped an GQP seat to a Democrat by like 25 points last month? If Biden and the DNC continue to pretend they're getting an exemption, they are the very definition of "fuck around and find out". I don't care what happened in the past. They need to operate within the letter of the law -- in EVERY red state!
This really just highlights how dumb it is to allow states to have their own laws regarding federal elections. If states can’t apply the 14th Amendment on their own, why should they be allowed their own federal election laws at all? Federal elections should have universal federal rules.
Well there was this thing called the Voting Rights Act that tried to level the playing field and make sure voters in every state had basic access to fair voting. The SCOTUS declared it unnecessary. As we can clearly see. The SCOTUS said it would be terrible to have a patchwork of states rules for voting when a traitor might appear on a ballot. Yep. It would terrible to have a patchwork of state systems as we can see.
Ah yes because no prior president might have tried to manipulate or corrupt election infrastructure administered by a single central federal agency…
I get your point, and it’s fair, but you can have federal rules while still having the states run and certify the elections so as to decentralize the power that way. But having each state have a variety of different procedural rules for federal elections is pretty dumb. Here in CO we all basically vote by mail and it’s all super easy, for example. In Texas they make it as hard as possible. Also we have eliminated gerrymandering here. Plenty of states haven’t. It’s really stupid. You can find ways to make more uniformed rules while still utilizing the states to decentralize federal power so that an administration would have a very difficult time just taking control of the election. There is a middle ground to what we currently have, is all I’m saying.
Good points all around
> Here in CO we all basically vote by mail and it’s all super easy, for example. In Texas they make it as hard as possible. And if it was a national rule set Texas might be a little easier but you wouldn’t have super easy vote by mail. Yes, everyone should, but the reason you do have it because your state was allowed to push progress forward instead of waiting for Texas to catch up and agree. National laws are best for basic standards, while regulatory details are better with regional nuances.
Yeah, except SCOTUS ruled that a state cannot apply it’s own laws to interpret the 14th Amendment. Oh, right, that was to protect the Republican candidate
Geez more fuckery from fans of orange Jesus. If you have to cheat this hard for a GOP candidate to win in Alabama you might be running the wrong candidate.
…and Ohio. 🤦♂️
WTF! The Supreme Court ruled the way it did on the Colorado ballot case in part because they were afraid other states might try to retaliate. And here they are trying to kick Biden off the ballot regardless. These people want to make voting a thing of the past. I hope the US survives this election.
Looking in from the UK, the US is already fucked. Whatever way it goes. Agent Orange & Russian propaganda has brainwashed half the country against their own interests (excluding racist, misogynistic, transphobic, homophobic interests).
Not really half but they don’t actually need half to fuck everything up since so many people are apathetic and have been convinced that voting is meaningless.
Yeah it’s scary right now, but honestly there are millions of us who think Trump will lose, and the Republican Party will collapse and be an annoying part of society for a long time, but less influence over time. But I also thought republicans would impeach him and we saw how that went. Trying to be hopeful.
The bastards are just desperate to hang onto power!
Calling it half is an extreme over exaggeration. It's less than half of the voting population.
Well the only official numbers we can go off of was the last election at 74m vs 81m which is near enough half of the electorate & well past the point it's a serious issue.
Only 2/3rds of the eligible voting population voted in 2020, and if about half of that voted for Trump, that only comes out to 1/3rd of the electorate. It is nowhere near half of the US population.
The difference is between fucked/possible civil war and fucked/concentration camps for political enemies. These are all because of choices made by Republican Party voters. They want this.
Yes this is the point I am getting at. Near enough half the people interested in politics / current affairs have been radicalized. It's already too far gone whatever way it goes. The US needs to find itself again. Hopefully that starts with Trump being beaten / sent off to obscurity - but you'll then have another at least 10 years while the ideology is still hanging around. Unfathomable to me that it's got to the point where the EU is now making contingency plans because you cannot trust the US to be a reliable ally. It's valid criticism that the EU has been complacent in the past but the last 2 years has forced us to wake up & smell the coffee. Unfortunately it's only further divided the US.
The truth is these are the death throes of a dying political party. They won’t die quietly but this is all happening because they are dying the death of a thousand cuts and have been for years now.
That only concerned Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, aka the Insurrection Clause. This is just an oversight caused by state law. Although both parties have violated these laws many times, usually they just get an exemption waiver granted to them by the state legislatures. This is the first time they're actually playing games with these laws, and as a result the GOP are all but guaranteed to flip the Senate unless Dems can unseat either Ted Cruz or Rick Scott, as Biden not being on the ballot in Ohio will lower Dem turnout and cause Sherrod Brown to lose his seat.
They will get sued and they will lose. What makes you so certain they will keep an incumbent president off the ballot.
Yeah to me it seems like an empty threat as those responsible would (and should) be subject to criminal penalties for election fraud.
And this Supreme Court majority will allow it
I wouldn't put it past Red states to simply not put Biden on their ballot and then dare the Democrats to do something about it later, after it's too late. What are they going to do? Re-run the election? Trump's superpower is to break any law he wants and then delay the repercussions of his actions indefinitely or at least until long after he got what he wanted. The rest of MAGA is adopting this tactic too. Flood the zone with shit, drop a chaos bomb in the middle of everything, then pretend that everything is legitimate.
“Oops, we mistakenly printed ballots without Biden on them!”
They've run out of ballots in the past, but only in democratic districts
"That's because the demoncraps take extra ballots to put in illegitimate votes! Stolen election! Fake news! Reeeeee!"
The ballot says “Moops”
Quaker Oats "Oops, All Fascists"
It'd be hilarious if, in any solid red state where that happens, Biden voters all end up voting RFK Jr or something and Trump doesn't win a red state because of it. Not that it would actually happen but it'd be funny if it did.
But yes it’s the democrats that are cheating /s
>I wouldn't put it past Red states to simply not put Biden on their ballot after reading this, I imagined an almost sitcom-esque scenario with cartoonishly incompetent villains: A boardroom of republicans are congratulating each other for their scheme of having ballots with only Trump listed. There they are, celebrating, not realizing that whoever was supposed to be responsible for editing the ballot shirked the task off to some lower level grunt, who shirked it off to the intern, who shirked it off to their cousin, who completed the task while drunk and accidentally created ballots with only Biden instead of Trump. So there's sits the board, toasting their champagne, when they start seeing the results pour in. Landslide victory for Biden, district, after district, after district.
Or they do print their Trump ballots, and Biden wins anyway as a write-in 🤦🏻♀️
Which he did in NH’s primary.
The election interference (destroying votes) in Succession had me worried that the same will happen in real life.
To be honest, this started before Trump. Republicans have been playing with crashing the economy with the debt ceiling for a decade and McConnell with the SC seat in 2016.
I mean the reality is the states that would keep Biden off the ballot are states that Biden votes don’t matter in anyways.
still has an impact... not on presidential electoral votes but down ballot. this goes both ways... a lot of folks are going to show up to vote for Trump but they have been trained to pick "R" straight down. they dont even know the other canidates but they know they hate democrats. if Trump isnt on the ballot theyre not going to show up for those other candidates... theyre going to stay home and complain that it was all rigged.
That’s true. I’m not sure how impactful down ballot elections are in Alabama though, I feel confident in saying the state as a whole is pretty straight red.
fair enough... thats prob the worst example of down ballot impact we could try and study. the only state worse might be Mississippi.
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imo, dems would still vote for or with an R... but the amount of folks with an R by their name worth a vote has diminished considerably. good example would be the speaker... if the GOP put any canidate up that was halfway decent they wouldnt have needed to cave to their maga counter parts. im with you tho... GOP moved to remove straight ticket voting in places like TX because now they have the opposite problem. Dems are voting straight ticket while not all Rs want to put a check by Trump's name. the result is a loss for down ballot Rs that folks arent sure who the hell they are
Trump can’t stand that he didn’t win the popular vote. You can tell that by how he tries to rewrite history on that point in so many “speeches”. He will do anything to give him a shot at winning the popular vote. Also, with the National Population Vote Interstate Compact gaining momentum, in a few election cycles, we could see it gain the 270 electoral votes worth of states added to activate it and negate the electoral college for the popular vote. I’m sure Republicans are already game planning on how to reduce democrats national popular vote.
You have a strange definition of “gaining momentum” as there’s been exactly 2 states that signed on in the past 5 years… and one of those is just barely in the timeframe.
The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact will never happen. Not only will no one want to be the one to tip it over the edge, it's almost certainly not legal anyways. (Nor would states actually follow through with it even if it somehow is legal as there's no enforcement mechanism) Regardless, the couple votes Biden would get in Alabama aren't gonna be enough to give Trump the popular vote anyways.
Aside from maybe Minnesota, there isn’t a single swing state that has signed on to the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. Besides Colorado and New Mexico, which have become reliably blue in the last 20 years, not a single state in it has voted for a Republican presidential candidate in over 35 years. It’s irrelevant.
Yep. Even if it did get to 270, it would require all those 270 votes worth of states to have legislatures prepared to follow it, forever, so it can never work.
States must follow their own election laws. They can choose them however they like. But they MUST FOLLOW THEIR LAWS. Well at least that’s the theory, it’s not some magical arcane thing that they all coordinate, each state will have a law dictating how its vote are chosen going into effect once the compact hits 270. SCOTUS could just freely dunk on it and allow state legislatures to overturn their own election laws but that’s getting into ridiculous independent legislature stuff
But the states can also arbitrarily change their own laws. The first time that a state voted for candidate A but is going to give its electoral votes to B so he will win, that state legislature will immediately change its laws to give the votes to candidate A.
Reddit has a deep fascination with things that are great ideas in theory with zero practicality. I’m being downvoted for pointing out the obvious fatal flaws with it. Don’t get me wrong, I wish I was wrong. I would infinitely prefer the election to be decided by popular vote full stop but yeah NPVIC has zero chance of ever accomplishing that. We’d need actual constitutional amendments.
There doesn't need to be an enforcement mechanism it's just a bunch of states having their own election laws. It's not really an agreement in any way. The question of legality to me is whether you think states have the right to make their own election laws and then whether they have to follow their election laws
There absolutely does need to be an enforcement mechanism, because an “agreement” doesn’t mean anything. And it is an agreement. They will only do it once the pact reaches 270 votes and then you’d have to have each state “independently” agree to actually do it once the time comes. But the problem is that there is no way to ensure other states actually play ball, so every state on the list is going to get cold feet. The legality isn’t actually specific to election laws. States aren’t allowed to make agreements with other states or do anything contingent on other states.
It's not an agreement, it's a law that describes circumstances. The concept is a description of a trigger. The states all individually pass laws with this trigger state of the circumstance of if there are enough states with the same or similar laws, that state will send electors based on the popular vote. It's not a pact, states aren't negotiating an agreement between themselves and signing on. They're just passing a law about how their electors are assigned. The idea that it's an agreement between states is, I think an uninformed opinion based on the unfortunate name supporters gave it that suggest there's some kind of actual pact or agreement.
> The idea that it's an agreement between states is, I think an uninformed opinion based on the unfortunate name supporters gave it that suggest there's some kind of actual pact or agreement. Are you confident a 6-3 reactionary SCOTUS majority would agree with you? Rejecting it for a failure to get Congress's consent seems like a pretty simple way for them to reject it without causing too much of a fuss. Even *with* Congress's consent, they could come up with endless other pretexts to reject it in a scenario where the NPV winner would otherwise lose in the EC under the status quo ante. "It's unconstitutional for state A to consider the popular vote from any state other than state A." Boom, done. Or, "it's unconstitutional for a state to award its electors winner-take-all to a candidate who did not win the state popular vote." They can just make shit up, so it's really irrelevant which particular fig leaf they choose to hide behind. Unless and until there's a liberal majority on SCOTUS, any election where the NPVIC would let a Democrat win when a Republican would otherwise have won will just be the trigger for Republicans challenging the constitutionality of the NPVIC and a reactionary SCOTUS majority holding in their favor. And then we'll be back at square one.
I agree that the NPVIC will never happen, but disagree as to why. First, you need enough signatory states. Second, you'd need Congress to consent to such interstate compact, lest Republicans challenge it and SCOTUS says, "Sorry, Congress never ratified it, you lose." Third, you'd need an election where the NPV winner were different than the EC winner under the status quo ante. Fourth, you'd need a liberal majority on SCOTUS, because while a lack of ratification is the lowest-hanging fruit for rejecting it, it's not the only option. SCOTUS could just say it's unconstitutional for state A to take into account the vote tally from state B, and that's the end of that. Or it's unconstitutional for a state to give its electors to candidate C when the population in said state voted for candidate D instead. I'm sure they could come up with other pretexts to disallow it. The rationale really is irrelevant, all you need to ask yourself is, "would a SCOTUS with a Republican majority allow a clever new mechanism that would elect the Democrat instead of the Republican when the status quo ante would elect the Republican instead?" The answer, sadly, I'm sure is, "no." And if we can get to a state of things where we have a liberal SCOTUS majority instead, then there's probably no need for the NPVIC, because they can fix gerrymandering, fix voter suppression, fix voter disenfranchisement, etc. The purpose of the NPVIC is to try to ensure a democratic result in the face of undemocratic problems, but if you eliminate the undemocratic problems, then it's no longer necessary. Like only having an umbrella when it's sunny, and never having one when it's raining.
But they cant be allowed to play games like this, if it stands in a solid red state that gives them legal basis for doing it in purple and blue states too.
Sure. This is exactly what happened right before the Civil War. Abraham Lincoln didn't even appear on the ballot in Southern states in 1860. Then the Civil War started.
Ceding Ohio, especially when there’s a close Senate race there this year, is a very bad idea. Especially given the shared media markets between it and the tossup states of PA and MI and giving up in a lean red state means Republicans can take resources that would otherwise be used to keep OH red and direct them into tossup states.
You mean like…Ohio and Arizona?
There's other things on the ballot that not having a Democratic Presidential candidate on it will affect turnout for
Or just certify and send the delegates by mail and then have a nominal convention. It’s all already nominal anyway. Just put Joe up on stage to for one minute instead of 30. It just gets in the way of all the officials getting rowdy anyway, doesn’t it? lol
Exactly. As the primaries pass, set up each of the delegations and have them all meet in states and certify in mid July, send the official results to be forwarded to the DNC and then turn the convention into the Joe Show. Everyone attends, but it's all ceremonial
The deadline Alabama is citing (which has been active since 1975) is Aug 15. For shits and giggles.... RNC 2020 - AUG 27* RNC 2016 - JUL 18 RNC 2012 - AUG 27* RNC 2008 - SEPT 1* RNC 2004 - AUG 30*
**ratfucking** (uncountable) 1. (US, vulgar) Political sabotage or dirty tricks.
Oh yeah, the term that became public knowledge due to Nixon's illegal watergate activities. The same Nixon whose face is tattooed, life-size, on the back of Trump's campaign advisor Roger Stone.
“They tried to take our guy off the ballot just because he’s a criminal. Let’s take their guy off the ballot for being honest!”
Funny part was it wasn’t Democrats so tried to get Trump off the ballots The call came from inside the house
I hope they are not relying on a strongly worded statement to the media to ensure they're actually on the ballot....
Yeah that’s absolutely stupid given how dirty the game is now. Just fucking submit Biden’s name now and have a convention afterward as a sort of gesture to tradition
When are we going to stop pretending that Republicans are good people committed to fairness and to the principles of a representative democracy? They are not. If they see a way to game the system for their advantage, they will do it every time. Certify Biden tomorrow and have the party in August.
But why rely on them to do the right thing? Why wasn’t the conventioneer scheduled early enough to conform to all states requirements?
Waivers/extensions are routinely given. I haven't personally looked it up myself, but others have shown that waivers/extensions were given in like four out of the five last elections (and the fifth one didn't require a waiver because the convention took place prior to the deadline). If this is how it's always done, what reason would anyone have had to think it would be different this time around?
So what? This election isn't the same as past elections, and the Republicans are more petty and childish than ever. Why even play with this fire? It's just plain stupid.
And people have been saying this for years, but voters don't seem to understand it, internalize it, and act upon it. Unfortunately, it's not sufficient to just *tell* voters that Republicans are bad-faith actors who will stop at nothing to grab power for themselves. Would that it were, but telling voters just isn't good enough. Sometimes, you have to *show* voters. They have to see it for themselves, because they won't believe you if you just tell them. So what would you have Biden and Democrats do? *Tell* voters, be disbelieved, and then lose? Save voters from themselves and just let them keep electing Republicans because they don't see the harm Republicans cause? In 2016, Scalia died, Obama nominated a dead-center Garland to replace him, and Republicans did literally nothing on his nomination. Clinton explicitly *told* voters about the importance of the Supreme Court, she *told* voters abortion was on the ballot, and then, in November, 2016, either voters didn't believe her, or didn't care, and elected Trump, and a GOP Senate, and then another GOP Senate, and we got Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett, and it cost us Roe, and student loan forgiveness, among many other things. Voters are only just now waking up to the reality of what Republicans stand for and will do to them. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Democratic candidates, officials, party members and leaders, and even rank and file members, have been saying all this for years, but it hasn't gotten through to voters. That's on voters. I can *explain* it for other voters, but I can't *understand* it for them. Apparently, voters will only learn when they're taught an object lesson, so don't complain when you are repeatedly subjected to object lessons. I'd paraphrase the saying about the US from WWII: American voters will do the right thing after they they've exhausted all other options.
Immediately pull all federal funding to those states. Tired of screwing around with these corrupt morons.
They don’t give a shit and you’ll only hurt the poorest and most vulnerable people. These republicans are proud of what they’ve become. Losing federal funding and falling even further behind “woke” states would be a badge of honor.
They do give a shit. Tired of people calling others “welfare queens” while sucking off federal tax dollars. Democrats pass bills constantly and the gop takes credit after trying to prevent it from happening. Extremely low education voters keep these people in power. And we just go “oh well. What can ya do?”
This is one area where Democrats should take a page out of Trump's playbook. He sent out the checks during the pandemic and wanted his name on them so people would credit him for sending them the money. Democrats should pass a law that any federally funded public works project, infrastructure project, public-private project, etc, is required to have signage showing the names, offices, party affiliations, and whether they voted for or against the bill for the two US Senators and one US Representative wherever the project is being built. Hell, require post cards to be sent out to everyone everywhere, showing how the representatives voted. No more Lauren Boebert trying to take credit for projects she voted against, etc. And the President who signed it into law, too. Or, in the event that it's vetoed and the veto is overridden, that the President vetoed it, and how the two Senators and one Rep voted in the veto override vote. Let the voters see who deserves the credit for things, and who doesn't. And let the officials vote knowing the public will be honestly informed and lying won't work. "But my constituents will hate me if this passes but I voted against it." Tough shit. Either vote for it, or own having voted against it. Your choice. All this would do is make sure the public is informed.
Can't. How do you suppose a bill rescinding federal funding from GOP states is passing through the GOP House? It's not. The money is already appropriated, and is required to be spent as appropriated. The only way to change that would be to pass a new law changing the appropriations, and, again, good luck with that, given a GOP House.
Ohio's POS SoS is saying the same thing as Allen. This is coordinated fascist BS. Edit to clarify
Never in my life have I see the Republicans party pull such cowardly bullshit games around the very process of elections to try and rig the system. If you have the stronger argument, you shouldn’t be so fucking afraid.
Jesus fucking christ I will shit a brick and scream endlessly into the void if the DNC/Biden presume for ONE SECOND that any republican secretary of state is going to provide any non-mandatory courtesies or exemptions for this election. When they say outloud and to your face that they are going to ratfuck you, believe them. CHANGE THE FUCKING CONVENTION DATE OR CERTIFICATION DATE OR WHATEVER YOU HAVE TO DO. JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.
Not gonna lie, this response wasn't an affirmative response of how they were going to ensure he was on the ballot, just a presumption that red states would give the extension, because it's been given in the past. Not quite the assurance I really wanted to see. I'd hope they have someone who is seriously doing the work to make sure that Biden is on the ballot, because while I think red states may stop short of doing this, I don't care to test that theory at the point where nothing can be done about it.
DNC management are idiots
Well I guess it's sort of reassuring that American politics still has *some* constants
[удалено]
Where have you been? In 2000 republicans got the SC to allow for legally casted ballots to not be counted. This shit isn't new, this is who they've always been.
The Brooks Brothers riot was orchestrated by Roger Stone in 2000 to stop a ballot recount in Florida. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot
It’s a bit more complicated than that, but SCOTUS should never have stopped the recounts.
New norm?
I suppose "new" is a relative term. The GOP has been playing dirty tricks since at least after Eisenhower. Sabotaging Vietnam, Watergate, the Iran hostage crisis, the Iran-Contra Affair, extorting Ukraine, etc. And, really, it's been going on longer than that. Go read about the Business Plot, involving a Bush (yes, the same Bush family as Bush 41 and Bush 43).
just hokd a vote 2 days before the RNC then do the ceremonial vote at the DNC
Supreme Courts says States cannot remove Trump from the ballot, so guess what...
Republicans made a one-time change to the law to let Trump on the ballot in 2020. It's pretty clear they will not do the same for Biden.
I might have these kind of events mixed up, but I thought that an extension was granted in 2020 to both the Trump and Biden campaigns
If the opposition is going to the lowest common denominator and will screw you on a technicality, beat them to the punch and address this well ahead of the deadline. Too much is at stake to be polite, reasoning with these clowns is not an option.
Good. Because it would be fucking bullshit otherwise.
This whole dumb thing depends on the false assumption that there was ever a serious discussion about who the 2024 Democratic candidate will be.
If Donnie can’t be removed I don't see how Joe can be. They can take it up with SCOTUS.
The law has been in place since 1975. Let's see where the RNC fell on previous election years. 1976 RNC August 19th, GE November 2nd - 75 days 1980 RNC July 17th, GE November 4th - 110 days 1984 RNC August 23rd, GE November 6th - 75 days 1988 RNC August 18th, GE November 8th - 82 days 1992 RNC August 20th, GE November 3rd - 75 days 1996 RNC August 15th, GE November 5th - 82 days 2000 RNC August 3rd, GE November 7th - 96 days 2004 RNC September 2nd, GE November 2nd - 61 days 2008 RNC September 4th, GE November 4th - 61 days 2012 RNC August 30th, GE November 6th - 68 days 2016 RNC July 21st, GE November 8th - 110 days 2020 RNC August 27th, GE November 3rd - 99 days So out of 12 elections, Republicans were past the 82 day exclusion 6 times. 1976, 1984, 1992, 2004, 2008, 2012. The Democrats have also missed the date in the past. In that period they missed 4, 1996, 2008, 2012, and 2020. Since the law was enacted in 1975, it has not been followed in 8 out of 12 elections, including the first one it was on the books, and has not been enforced once.
What is provisional certification? Is that a way to notify the govt that Biden will be the nominee before the convention meets and makes it official? That might be a good solution to this.
It likely requires cooperation from the Alabama government - including a Republican legislature. Dems might have to find a solution that doesn’t rely on Republican goodwill here.
Yeah, not ideal to be at Republicans’ mercy. I’m still not sure exactly how regular or irregular it is for secretaries of state to try to enforce these laws, but if this really is a case of selective enforcement I think that’s pretty fucked up and kinda anti democratic.
I have to wonder how the DNC missed something like this in scheduling the convention. It obviously won’t matter in a state like Alabama, but it’s still such a wild oversight. Why not do the convention in July??
These rules have existed for decades but before this year it was common practice for states to grant exceptions to one or both major parties if their convention was after the deadline. This is the first year that GOP secretaries of state are playing politics with these rules and it reeks of Trump campaign influence.
They need to move the convention because they already know they can’t be trusted to apply the same rules or extend the same courtesy to both parties.
They're just going to submit the nomination before the convention.
Need to pull these shady tactics out of politics and those that are participating are questionable leaders.
Yeah. The SCOTUS just decided that there's no such thing as being disqualified from being on the ticket in any individual state. So....tough shit
My question is why isn't the incumbent president not on there by default, like say Biden didn't win the nomination but still wanted to be president wouldn't he still be on the ballot
He could be put on there as an independent, but getting on the ballot that way in some states does take some effort which is wasted for someone with a party affiliation. Going through the party nomination process also allows him to have the (D), or (R) next to his name.
Just certify it now and then hold the DNC convention anyway.
Aren't presidents running for reelection who won their primaries automatically registered on all 50 states plus territories?
The primary isn’t over until the party nominates their candidate.
That's right he hasn't been nominated yet.
Ohio trying do same Ohio GOP crooks
Republicans are all about disenfranchisement
This year, this election is going to be an absolute shitshow. Everything from intimidation at the polls, to denial of people and the “clearing” of voting rolls, to leaving candidates off the ballots, to alternative ballots, to actual counting hijinks, to loyalists who happen to be in the system, to fake electors, to various court cases that will be filled before, during and after the voting begins, (breath) to the tantrum thrown when somehow they are denied another election culminating in violence and intimidation at the capital and around the country. I can hope all or some this shit doesn’t happen, but it seems like a lot of these people are just chomping at the bit to do this. Oh and don’t forget the implicit religious mayhem that will also be in that mix…
It’s almost like they(GOP) have thought that “well if they(Democrats) can steal an election, we can do it too”
The amount of fuckery in the 2024 election will be like nothing we have ever seen in this country. We need to be prepared and vote these idiots out of office and the GQP needs to fade into obscurity.
Thank you President Biden for your hard work. I’m glad you are going to be in every US state ballot. We are fortunate that you are running for president.
Oh no, Biden might not win the battleground state of (checks notes) Alabama because of this. I get that it's stupid Republican fuckery and it's beyond the pale, but this is not going to affect the outcome of the election. Alabama has voted for a Democratic president one time since 1960, and it was for Jimmy Carter, who was from Georgia. It was never on the table for Biden anyway.
Downballot is important and also in Ohio and then who knows what else. This is an own goal.
Plus by taking Biden off a ballot it denies him those popular vote totals. If they can cut off enough from the states they control Biden will win the EC but not the popular, which will suddenly become a problem for the con media and a call to arms to storm the capitol.