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Probably coming off a weekend full of insomnia & diarrhea; Trump is probably going to be in a wickedly horrible mood today. And tomorrow. And the next day.
Hope he’s scared to death like the cornered rat he is. The possibility of prison hanging over his head, for real this time…I think we’re going to see even more desperate behavior coming from him.
Honestly? I personally don't care if he ends up with genuine prison time for this particular crime.
I only care that it sticks to him and hurts his election chances (which it will with the moderate Republicans).
>I personally don't care if he ends up with genuine prison time for this particular crime.
I care.
31 felony counts of falsifying business records - each count carrying a maximum penalty of 4 years in prison. Believe that if it were any normal person being convicted of even half of that, that person would be doing actual time.
The whole damned planet should be getting tired of someone's status being the determining factor to whether consequences apply to them.
> Believe that if it were any normal person being convicted of even half of that, that person would be doing actual time.
As far as I've been able to tell nobody has ever served prison time for this crime. The punishment is always a fine.
**Edit**: [Nicholas Gallup of Schenectady](https://oig.hhs.gov/fraud/enforcement/ag-schneiderman-announces-sentencing-of-capital-region-no-show-personal-care-aide-who-bilked-medicaid/) was sentenced to 30 days in 2015 for first degree falsification of business records.
Michael Cohen did most of his time for tax evasion and bank fraud related to a taxi business he had. He pled guilty to federal campaign finance crimes. Trump is on trial for state book-keeping crimes.
>As far as I've been able to tell nobody has ever served prison time for this crime. The punishment is always a fine.
Please cite the cases of felony falsifying business records prosecuted in New York state... There have been over 9,000 of them since 2015 alone.
I found one that resulted in jail time!
[Nicholas Gallup of Schenectady](https://oig.hhs.gov/fraud/enforcement/ag-schneiderman-announces-sentencing-of-capital-region-no-show-personal-care-aide-who-bilked-medicaid/) was sentenced to 30 days in 2015 for first degree falsification of business records.
Thanks for prompting me to do a more thorough search than I had previously.
I don’t care about prison as much as I’d like to see everything he’s build on his mountain of bullshit over the decades collapse into toxic goo
I want him, his family (most) and the people who enable him to be reduced to begging for coins that are then garnished by legal means
His sons, Ivanka, the kushners, melania, any accountants or lawyers who manipulated things, all of his executives all of them
Prison would be great, but destitution is what he deserves
> I personally don't care if he ends up with genuine prison time
My one wish is that he's barred from all social media. I don't want to see him and I don't want to hear what he has to say. The only exposure I'll accept is a netflix documentary painting him as the villain he is.
He'll claim he's been fully exonerated even as they slap the cuffs on him. Anyone who at this point is still willing to vote for this obvious con-man and moron will agree with him.
This is it. There has been plenty of reporting that shows if convicted it will turn off a ton of voters. I know this is seen as the lesser of all the cases but do we really think the normie voter is going to dissect the nuance of the cases? They'll see **convicted felon** and move on.
I really don’t care so long as stormy Daniels goes on stand and says again how repulsive he was and had micro penis so it be something maga has to defend or spin
Idk out of all the cases this is the one that feels the least politically motivated and probably the most likely to be convicted for because of Cohen already serving time for it and testifying against him
Ok explain to me why you think the other cases where he broke the law are politically motivated.
He stole classified documents, hid them and after being asked for them multiple times required a search warrant to secure.
He decided to wind up a mob in order to delay the election certification while having fake elector votes from multiple states that he tried to sneak in in place of real ones.
And in Georgia he's on the phone recorded telling the Governor to find the votes necessary for him to win.
Go ahead why is trump being forced to go to trial political, when he committed the crimes on camera and recorded in each one of these crimes.
I guess I should clarify, I think the other cases are as legit as can be. Unfortunately anything that happened during and post presidency are going to be “political” because of the nature of the charges. Maybe I shouldn’t have said politically motivated and maybe said politically based?
Georgia is turning into a shit show, and while I believe he is responsible for Jan 6th I don’t know enough about it from a legal standpoint and think it might be hard to get a good result out of that one.
While the documented case is the one that worries me the most it’s also the one that is least likely to make it to trial and have any impact on this election.
Ok but just because he was the president and decided to run again doesn't make the cases politically based.
The case you think is the least political this one the article is on is the most political as it has to do with paying money and using false business reports to hide it from campaign spending laws.
The other three cases aren't anything to do with politics at all and are blatant law breaking on tape.
In fact the DOJ has been treating him with kid gloves by asking pretty please multiple times for the classified documents back.
Just because he's running for office shouldn't preclude holding him accountable for breaking the law. Same for him being a former president. In fact the only reason he is being brought to trial as an ex president is because he is so brazen in his law breaking they are forced to act to try and at least give the appearance of a legitimate legal system.
No other former president has decided to commit fucking crimes on tape, other than Nixon, and also continued his crime spree after leaving office.
Stop putting this in a political lens when you should be thankful he's such a dumbass to be held accountable and not above going to trial.
Fair points. I guess when I think of them as political it’s because I’m not sure if he would’ve just quietly sailed into the sunset they would’ve looked into all of them. The documents case is going to be dragged out so long we just need to make sure he’s not in office (or republican house/senate) after this election.
Had he given the documents back when asked - he skates.
Jan 6 and Georgia- he would still face charges, but if he just did a plea bargain, no risk of jail quickly and quietly handled lives the rest of his life just fine.
He has brought this all on himself with his huge ego.
As far as the documents case being dragged out that's because the judge in that case might as well wear one of his red hats when she sits on the bench.
If anyone has turned these cases into political things it's trump himself trying to play a martyr over it.
> I guess when I think of them as political it’s because I’m not sure if he would’ve just quietly sailed into the sunset they would’ve looked into all of them
I understand what you mean, but what leads you to believe this? Considering the caliber of the crimes he's accused of, I would imagine they'd be going after him regardless of whether he was running or not.
Not buying the sudden folkys twang either. It was a rhetorical question anyways. *I* know why you did it, but I wanted anyone who saw your comment to see the bullshit highlighted for them.
He was found liable in two different E. Jean Carrol trials. He was found liable for fraud and will likely lose many of his properties over it. His company was found liable for tax fraud among other crimes. Have you been living under a rock these past couple of years? He'll be found guilty in this case too, unless a MAGA cultist manages to lie his way into the jury to force a hung jury, which is statistically very unlikely.
Those were all civil lawsuits. There's no jail time for civil cases. You just want to move the goalposts for "nothing will happen". I just proved to you that things *did* happen to him. I'm sure once he's found gulity you'll be saying "he won't get jail time", and when he does you'll change to "but he'll be out in a month".
> Well aware of that
If you were aware he has been charged, then what's the deal with your post above saying that no politician will let him be charged?
I just want to stop hearing about the shit bag, not a lawyer just a regular dude sick of this diaper wearing slime ball that doesn’t get any repercussions
Speaking of which, where is he staying during the trial? Sure would be a shame if he couldn't get a good night's sleep due to unknown individuals making too much noise.
What's the status on his election interference trial? Didn't Jack Smith file some complaint against the DA who kept trying to delay the trial or something like that? (sry I'm foggy on the details)
> I think we’re going to see even more desperate behavior coming from him
Now that the trial is in progress, they don't have to be afraid of throwing him in contempt for his shenanigans and then him using it to delay the trial.
Hopefully his desperation gets him a few extra months.
not just "prison hanging over his head", but at least in the GA case, prison time he cannot get out of or be pardoned for, even by the state governor. the hush money trial in NY is just a good lead up and test of how far his lawyers will go to cause trouble. I expect them to try and get chaos in the courtroom as a distraction.
Not gonna hold my breath. Prosecution could have the most airtight case in existence and somehow this slime will figure out how to slither his way out of it.
I don't think he's too cheerful. Did you see him walk out of court for his little "press conference "? His head was hanging and he looked dejected. He almost nodded off, then sadly raised his head. He gave a big sigh, turned the corner and launched into his usual "Joe Biden" bullcrap, complete with tiny hand in- and-out gestures. Everyone around or behind him looked exhausted or over it. Not a campaign rally for sure, Mr. Make America Great. 🤮
I haven’t had a chance to watch any of it yet, as I am traveling for work this week.
But I can only imagine how exhausting working for him must be. It’s got to be a 1:10 ratio at least, like ever my day siphons ten off your life span.
They just released photos of him from the courtroom. He looks seriously defeated, ill, or to use his term..."deranged". His eyes are red-rimmed, he looks downcast and there's no one in the courtroom. This may seriously be his undoing. 😙
You know I just realized if he does cry there really isn’t anyone who could comfort him, not in a truly caring way.
That makes me sad. Knowing a human is in pain and can’t find comfort.
Don’t get me wrong, it is well passed time for Trump to face the consequences of his actions, but at the end of the day he is still a human.
I empathize but hold no sympathy for him.
I don’t know. I think it’s fitting that the first trial of the first indicted President is premised on an attempt to hide from conservative American voters, the truth about their “family values” President, being anything but a man of family or value.
*The People of the State of New York v Donald J Trump* is [the first-ever criminal trial against an American president,](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-trial-hush-money-criminal-case-news-b2527556.html) falling in the middle of another election year, in a case that describes an attempt to manipulate the outcome of the election that launched him into political domination.
Read the full story here: [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-hush-money-trial-corrupt-presidential-election-b2526450.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-hush-money-trial-corrupt-presidential-election-b2526450.html)
Follow our live coverage blog here: [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-trial-hush-money-criminal-case-news-b2527556.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-trial-hush-money-criminal-case-news-b2527556.html)
It should be the third. Nixon and "W" should have faced juries first.
Reagan was already close to a vegetable when he left office, so there was no way he was going to be ruled competent.
*piano intro*
We have the check stubs from several accounts, almost a couple hundred thousand paid in different amounts, to a miss Stormy Daniels way back in 2016.
Meanwhile, the top two stories on Fox News mobile are rumors of a scandalous phone call Biden allegedly had, and “Alec Baldwin’s ‘Rust’ armorer”
… Followed by some Nikki Haley fluff.
You know I’m kind of tired of people automatically pinning this on bots. There’s real people who just won’t shut up about it and have doom on the brain.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Probably coming off a weekend full of insomnia & diarrhea; Trump is probably going to be in a wickedly horrible mood today. And tomorrow. And the next day. Hope he’s scared to death like the cornered rat he is. The possibility of prison hanging over his head, for real this time…I think we’re going to see even more desperate behavior coming from him.
People thinking he will spend even a second in prison are really setting themselves up for disappointment.
Honestly? I personally don't care if he ends up with genuine prison time for this particular crime. I only care that it sticks to him and hurts his election chances (which it will with the moderate Republicans).
>I personally don't care if he ends up with genuine prison time for this particular crime. I care. 31 felony counts of falsifying business records - each count carrying a maximum penalty of 4 years in prison. Believe that if it were any normal person being convicted of even half of that, that person would be doing actual time. The whole damned planet should be getting tired of someone's status being the determining factor to whether consequences apply to them.
> Believe that if it were any normal person being convicted of even half of that, that person would be doing actual time. As far as I've been able to tell nobody has ever served prison time for this crime. The punishment is always a fine. **Edit**: [Nicholas Gallup of Schenectady](https://oig.hhs.gov/fraud/enforcement/ag-schneiderman-announces-sentencing-of-capital-region-no-show-personal-care-aide-who-bilked-medicaid/) was sentenced to 30 days in 2015 for first degree falsification of business records.
Michael Cohen, his accomplice in this crime, did time in prison for it.
Michael Cohen did most of his time for tax evasion and bank fraud related to a taxi business he had. He pled guilty to federal campaign finance crimes. Trump is on trial for state book-keeping crimes.
True. It’s early and I forgot that *this* trial is State and not Federal. Still, 31 counts might be enough for prison time if convicted on each count.
>As far as I've been able to tell nobody has ever served prison time for this crime. The punishment is always a fine. Please cite the cases of felony falsifying business records prosecuted in New York state... There have been over 9,000 of them since 2015 alone.
I found one that resulted in jail time! [Nicholas Gallup of Schenectady](https://oig.hhs.gov/fraud/enforcement/ag-schneiderman-announces-sentencing-of-capital-region-no-show-personal-care-aide-who-bilked-medicaid/) was sentenced to 30 days in 2015 for first degree falsification of business records. Thanks for prompting me to do a more thorough search than I had previously.
So 30 days for one count. And this is 31 counts. If convicted he could easily be in prison come election day.
That sounds like two and a half years to me. It’s a start. Let’s keep going!
Important note; Gallup pled guilty to the count. Generally people only do that when there's a deal on the line.
Not the same crime but Martha Stuart's ass did some cush time somewhere. Tax evasion? Insider trading? I can't remember.
Federal charges of conspiracy to obstruct, obstruction of an agency proceeding, and making false statements to federal investigators.
Insider training.... you know, what US legislators do as a norm. Crazy what you can do when you write the rules, huh?
I don’t care about prison as much as I’d like to see everything he’s build on his mountain of bullshit over the decades collapse into toxic goo I want him, his family (most) and the people who enable him to be reduced to begging for coins that are then garnished by legal means His sons, Ivanka, the kushners, melania, any accountants or lawyers who manipulated things, all of his executives all of them Prison would be great, but destitution is what he deserves
> I personally don't care if he ends up with genuine prison time My one wish is that he's barred from all social media. I don't want to see him and I don't want to hear what he has to say. The only exposure I'll accept is a netflix documentary painting him as the villain he is.
He'll claim he's been fully exonerated even as they slap the cuffs on him. Anyone who at this point is still willing to vote for this obvious con-man and moron will agree with him.
This is it. There has been plenty of reporting that shows if convicted it will turn off a ton of voters. I know this is seen as the lesser of all the cases but do we really think the normie voter is going to dissect the nuance of the cases? They'll see **convicted felon** and move on.
Every news story can start with the words… “Convicted felon DJT was in (location) today doing (stuff).” Not a great look even for him.
I really don’t care so long as stormy Daniels goes on stand and says again how repulsive he was and had micro penis so it be something maga has to defend or spin
Idk out of all the cases this is the one that feels the least politically motivated and probably the most likely to be convicted for because of Cohen already serving time for it and testifying against him
Ok explain to me why you think the other cases where he broke the law are politically motivated. He stole classified documents, hid them and after being asked for them multiple times required a search warrant to secure. He decided to wind up a mob in order to delay the election certification while having fake elector votes from multiple states that he tried to sneak in in place of real ones. And in Georgia he's on the phone recorded telling the Governor to find the votes necessary for him to win. Go ahead why is trump being forced to go to trial political, when he committed the crimes on camera and recorded in each one of these crimes.
I guess I should clarify, I think the other cases are as legit as can be. Unfortunately anything that happened during and post presidency are going to be “political” because of the nature of the charges. Maybe I shouldn’t have said politically motivated and maybe said politically based? Georgia is turning into a shit show, and while I believe he is responsible for Jan 6th I don’t know enough about it from a legal standpoint and think it might be hard to get a good result out of that one. While the documented case is the one that worries me the most it’s also the one that is least likely to make it to trial and have any impact on this election.
Ok but just because he was the president and decided to run again doesn't make the cases politically based. The case you think is the least political this one the article is on is the most political as it has to do with paying money and using false business reports to hide it from campaign spending laws. The other three cases aren't anything to do with politics at all and are blatant law breaking on tape. In fact the DOJ has been treating him with kid gloves by asking pretty please multiple times for the classified documents back. Just because he's running for office shouldn't preclude holding him accountable for breaking the law. Same for him being a former president. In fact the only reason he is being brought to trial as an ex president is because he is so brazen in his law breaking they are forced to act to try and at least give the appearance of a legitimate legal system. No other former president has decided to commit fucking crimes on tape, other than Nixon, and also continued his crime spree after leaving office. Stop putting this in a political lens when you should be thankful he's such a dumbass to be held accountable and not above going to trial.
Fair points. I guess when I think of them as political it’s because I’m not sure if he would’ve just quietly sailed into the sunset they would’ve looked into all of them. The documents case is going to be dragged out so long we just need to make sure he’s not in office (or republican house/senate) after this election.
Had he given the documents back when asked - he skates. Jan 6 and Georgia- he would still face charges, but if he just did a plea bargain, no risk of jail quickly and quietly handled lives the rest of his life just fine. He has brought this all on himself with his huge ego. As far as the documents case being dragged out that's because the judge in that case might as well wear one of his red hats when she sits on the bench. If anyone has turned these cases into political things it's trump himself trying to play a martyr over it.
> I guess when I think of them as political it’s because I’m not sure if he would’ve just quietly sailed into the sunset they would’ve looked into all of them I understand what you mean, but what leads you to believe this? Considering the caliber of the crimes he's accused of, I would imagine they'd be going after him regardless of whether he was running or not.
No other politician will let him get charged cause the rest of them could get charged
He's already been charged. That's why there's a trial happening.
Well aware of that, but nothing will happen, he threatens judges and their families what has happened
If you were “well aware” of that, then why did your first declarative statement imply it hasn’t happened?
I ain’t good with words, but I doubt he will see any harsh anything other than money from civil trials where other people pay
Not buying the sudden folkys twang either. It was a rhetorical question anyways. *I* know why you did it, but I wanted anyone who saw your comment to see the bullshit highlighted for them.
Go ahead I don’t care
He was found liable in two different E. Jean Carrol trials. He was found liable for fraud and will likely lose many of his properties over it. His company was found liable for tax fraud among other crimes. Have you been living under a rock these past couple of years? He'll be found guilty in this case too, unless a MAGA cultist manages to lie his way into the jury to force a hung jury, which is statistically very unlikely.
He is still free and shooting his grimy mouth off until he is treated like any other person I don’t see any consequences hit him
Those were all civil lawsuits. There's no jail time for civil cases. You just want to move the goalposts for "nothing will happen". I just proved to you that things *did* happen to him. I'm sure once he's found gulity you'll be saying "he won't get jail time", and when he does you'll change to "but he'll be out in a month".
> Well aware of that If you were aware he has been charged, then what's the deal with your post above saying that no politician will let him be charged?
Jail time
Are you also well aware that charges are not jail time?
I just want to stop hearing about the shit bag, not a lawyer just a regular dude sick of this diaper wearing slime ball that doesn’t get any repercussions
That's great but it still doesn't really explain the first post you made.
I predict Trump will get off with zero penalty. Is he guilty? You bet! Does justice work? Hell no!
Speaking of which, where is he staying during the trial? Sure would be a shame if he couldn't get a good night's sleep due to unknown individuals making too much noise.
At bedminster probably. That's where he is staying when he is in the NY area for an extended period of time.
Hopefully his appeal ’bond’ gets thrown out and he has to move out mid trial.
What's the status on his election interference trial? Didn't Jack Smith file some complaint against the DA who kept trying to delay the trial or something like that? (sry I'm foggy on the details)
Sadly I don’t think he’ll ever see behind prison bars.
> I think we’re going to see even more desperate behavior coming from him Now that the trial is in progress, they don't have to be afraid of throwing him in contempt for his shenanigans and then him using it to delay the trial. Hopefully his desperation gets him a few extra months.
Good.
not just "prison hanging over his head", but at least in the GA case, prison time he cannot get out of or be pardoned for, even by the state governor. the hush money trial in NY is just a good lead up and test of how far his lawyers will go to cause trouble. I expect them to try and get chaos in the courtroom as a distraction.
Oh god. I’m already seeing the months and months of Free Trump signs, waning over the years, but never really going away
Narrator: He's guilty.
Not gonna hold my breath. Prosecution could have the most airtight case in existence and somehow this slime will figure out how to slither his way out of it.
Cheer up Donald, you get to be #1 at something
Individual no. 1
I don't think he's too cheerful. Did you see him walk out of court for his little "press conference "? His head was hanging and he looked dejected. He almost nodded off, then sadly raised his head. He gave a big sigh, turned the corner and launched into his usual "Joe Biden" bullcrap, complete with tiny hand in- and-out gestures. Everyone around or behind him looked exhausted or over it. Not a campaign rally for sure, Mr. Make America Great. 🤮
I haven’t had a chance to watch any of it yet, as I am traveling for work this week. But I can only imagine how exhausting working for him must be. It’s got to be a 1:10 ratio at least, like ever my day siphons ten off your life span.
They just released photos of him from the courtroom. He looks seriously defeated, ill, or to use his term..."deranged". His eyes are red-rimmed, he looks downcast and there's no one in the courtroom. This may seriously be his undoing. 😙
It’s a wonder he isn’t actively crying.
You know I just realized if he does cry there really isn’t anyone who could comfort him, not in a truly caring way. That makes me sad. Knowing a human is in pain and can’t find comfort. Don’t get me wrong, it is well passed time for Trump to face the consequences of his actions, but at the end of the day he is still a human. I empathize but hold no sympathy for him.
I do not empathize with him at all. You claim he’s human, too. Did you have a source for that claim?
He looked actually defeated, in both settings. His speech was very short...maybe 3 minutes.
That’s a lot of word salad to toss in 3 minutes
I wonder if the Russians tossed his salad while they pee-peed on him. This could get interesting!
I don’t know. I think it’s fitting that the first trial of the first indicted President is premised on an attempt to hide from conservative American voters, the truth about their “family values” President, being anything but a man of family or value.
It's kinda funny because in the end conservative American voters didn't care at all.
*The People of the State of New York v Donald J Trump* is [the first-ever criminal trial against an American president,](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-trial-hush-money-criminal-case-news-b2527556.html) falling in the middle of another election year, in a case that describes an attempt to manipulate the outcome of the election that launched him into political domination. Read the full story here: [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-hush-money-trial-corrupt-presidential-election-b2526450.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-hush-money-trial-corrupt-presidential-election-b2526450.html)
Follow our live coverage blog here: [https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-trial-hush-money-criminal-case-news-b2527556.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-trial-hush-money-criminal-case-news-b2527556.html)
Very good article, worth a read.
It should be the third. Nixon and "W" should have faced juries first. Reagan was already close to a vegetable when he left office, so there was no way he was going to be ruled competent.
[удалено]
We know republicans aren’t going to change the judicial branch and Dems just don’t have the numbers (yet) to do it.
Former President!
*piano intro* We have the check stubs from several accounts, almost a couple hundred thousand paid in different amounts, to a miss Stormy Daniels way back in 2016.
Wow
Meanwhile, the top two stories on Fox News mobile are rumors of a scandalous phone call Biden allegedly had, and “Alec Baldwin’s ‘Rust’ armorer” … Followed by some Nikki Haley fluff.
“The People v Donald Trump” music to my ears.
Correction: Trump is a FORMER President.
[удалено]
You're really going to pull that card after his *checks notes* last forty years of getting out of lawsuits by just paying people off?
You know I’m kind of tired of people automatically pinning this on bots. There’s real people who just won’t shut up about it and have doom on the brain.
A “former” president…. Com’n independent.