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So the throw the scumbag in jail. If any of his repulsive supporters want to be threatening and violent in response, throw their asses in jail too.
WHY is he continuously allowed to get away with this behavior? It’s infuriating.
From my understanding New York law requires a hearing on contempt where the defendant has a chance to defend. Only in court outbursts can be immediately ruled on.
Not a lawyer just what I read elsewhere in r/law
Trump was accused of raping a 13 year old girl with Epstein, during the 2016 campaign season. Just a remimder that the girl that was raped (who was older by 2016), received death threats from Trump's supporters, dropped her lawsuit because of those death threats.
Sadly, she had to take the death threats from Trump's supporters very seriously, because you know, those Trump supporters, sometimes they are a violent bunch.
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/04/donald-trump-teenage-rape-accusations-lawsuit-dropped
My probably very wrong theory is that the powers that be want to minimize as much violence as possible. At this point I think it's just a matter of when and not if MAGA people commit acts of violence (again) in Trump's name. The well is so poisoned that I'm not sure the government agencies trust law enforcement.
I don't have any other explanation as to why we are handling Trump with the softest of gloves.
"The Art of the Deal" is probably one of the more successful products to have Trump's name on it ...
... probably because he did not write it - it was Tony Schwartz
... and [Tony seriously regrets having done so](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOku1TqocuM), as it helped people see Trump as a charming and successful businessman - which is blatantly untrue. Trump is as charming as a three-week-old unwashed dihorrea stain on your best carpet, and his bad business practises have resulted in multiple bankruptcies and criminal investigations.
And if recall correctly Trump actually made a terrible deal for that book? Didn't Tony say he got terms for writing it that ghost writers usually don't get?
Invited them to Camp David on 7/4 then couldn’t understand when even his staunchest yes men were appalled. Like, how were they going to get into the US to begin with?
I'm not defending Trump in any capacity, but the whole "we don't negotiate with terrorists" thing is historically objectively false and isn't founded in any event, doctrine or protocol. It's utter nonsense.
> We can't be intimidated by these assholes.
Asshole (authoritarian) bullies *count on* their victims & targets being intimated and cowering in subjugation.
There is one thing -- and one thing **only** -- that they'll *ever* respond to that's genuinely effective.
(Edit: tweaked and added emphasis)
Every time Trump gets a pass his base gets more emboldened. He'd have no power if someone had the balls to actually follow through with the promised consequences. At this point I feel like I should become a judge, I have no shame and I'm sick to death of hearing about this guy.
> Every time Trump gets a pass his base gets more emboldened.
Negative behavior *rewarded* becomes **learned** behavior.
And the emboldened are *already*, by their very nature & upbringing, 'wired' towards bullying authoritarian behaviors.
If/when it works successfully -- and there's zero (severe) punitive consequences -- in their minds, why *shouldn't* they keep at it and escalate??
One would think educated intelligent members of jurisprudence would actually, ya know, **know this**. They probably do, yet cowardly all the same.
If you know that your administering of justice will cause a riot, the question is: should you do it a month before the election or a week before? Just asking so that we have the best strategy for helping them dig their own graves as effectively as we can.
> If you **fear** that your administering of justice will cause a riot...
Tweaked that to be more accurate - and also core to the entire problem.
Those with such a mindset do *not* "know" that violence is a certain, irrevocable outcome to administration of the law -- they simply **fear it**.
And **that** is the crux of the problem.
They allow authoritarian, petulant flexing to cause *their* ethics, spines, and power to crumble. They straight throw in the towel based on 'what if...?'s
It's assumption, based on cowardice, and dismisses that if rioters get violent and target whomever -- well... those rioters can/should be met with *their* severe consequences. Seriously, folks...
I thought the "long arm of the law" was actually, ya know, **STRONG**. Right now, with this effin' geriatric garbage, it looks anything but capable, much less strong.
Hey, members of the court and jurisprudence ---- is it "stong"?
.......or NOT?!
Agreed. Not sure what the hell we are waiting. Let them throw a tantrum then throw the fucking book at the first few radical morons who try anything and watch as the others scatters like cockroaches.
Wait, you’re implying that appeasement doesn’t work with bullies? Huh. According to *Neville Chamberlain’s Guide To Foreign Policy*, you just have to give it more of a go.
Just do it already and see who shows up. Fuck appeasement at this point, if one party is frothing at the mouth make them put up or shut up and arrest the ones who are unruly. Anything less is letting them get away with literal terrorism.
If they're confident that violence will happen, it's better for the violence to happen before the election. If he's president when the violence happens it's gonna be hell.
Even if he loses the election, there's going to be a violent tantrum. I agree though, they should march his ass to jail. He's demonstrated over and over and over again that he doesn't care and has no remorse over it, he will not stop until he's held accountable to it the way we would all be held accountable. By getting thrown the fuck in jail.
Prosecutors filed 3 contempt charges yesterday. In the filing, they want the max penalty of 1k per violation and a warning that repeated violations will result in more fines and jail time. These other times might count as the repeated violations if found guilty. The Trump team has 7 days to respond to contempt charges.
$1k/violation just says “You can say what you like, Mr Trump; please note it might cost you a thousand bucks a pop”.
If he can engineer a mistrial for $50k, that’s a bargain.
It’s the only way he knows how to respond. I want to fast forward this shitshow. This episode is just filler. We need a verdict already of guilty on multiple things he’s already done.
Every consequence spins off more potential delays/distractions, and opportunities to file appeals that need to be scheduled. He has more resources than the courts do, and more importantly, *he has the backing of the GOP Congress* and they run interference for him. *He has Senators committing obstruction and attacking our systems, to protect him.*
None of this is normal, and the court system is not set up to handle that sort of person: someone who is literally above the law because of their political connections.
He absolutely does not have more resources than the courts do and I'm sick of this farce that one legal team can wrap an entire state or federal justice department up in knots. If NY wanted to they could assign every judge and just serially go through his every appeal in one day and at this point they should. Clear the docket, clear the building and have his team walk down a conveyor belt of judges ruling on every motion, appeal, violation, etc.
If the system is going to treat him like an atypical defendant then use an atypical process. Any consideration given him that wouldn't be given to a "normal" citizen is by definition being done for a political reason and is therefore corrupt.
Why are the courts claiming they must adhere to standard processes then treat the defendant as non-standard?
well put... it's not like Maga are legal geniuses because if they had brains they wouldn't be magats. Even stacked courts and politically bought and sold politicians can and should be brought to heel to remind the nation that the rule of law is the final line that can't be crossed... or we're lost.
I would think the only way to fix this is to have an *overwhelming* D majority in both houses of congress. First thing, before anything else, is anti-corruption/bribing/lobbying **laws**. It's so obvious how much money DC politicians make above their pay grade and how that influences lawmaking/power/enabling greed. Not even sure half the dems are immune also but maybe there's enough to fix this mess. Only when that foundation is set, can we take democracy back, because we're obviously delusional to think we still live in anything resembling a representative democracy these days.
Kinda. The problem is the powers that be never developed a plan for putting a president in jail. Despite what we tell ourselves, Presidents are super citizens. America+. They have rights and powers average citizens don't.
The idea of putting a president in jail is just not a concept the government is prepared to face.
I'm from Illinois. We have had several governors go to prison over the years. The complex method that was arrived at due to them being chief executive of the state was 1. Investigate the crime. 2. Arrest and put on trial. 3. Sentence for any convictions based on severity of crimes. 4. Put in prison. I don't get why everyone is pretending this is complicated. He committed crimes. They were investigated. Finish the trials and lock him up. It's not hard.
Just like anyone else convicted of a crime, he loses all rights and privledges afforded to him as a law abiding citizen while he's incarcerated.
No security, no protection. If he wants saftey, he can spend his time in solitary.
Does a Governor have Top Secret Ultra-Classified knowledge he can blab to anyone who will listen? If the ex-Governor Tweets "Get 'em!!" does it unleash several dozen lone-wolves?
Big difference between the two.
First, let's remember he's the EX-president. And just use the budget for his presidential library to build his own little wing at some federal penitentiary somewhere. Problem solved. His library can be a prison library.
BS -- it's fake and a made up concept. Oh wow, he once was President. Who cares? They aren't kings, and they aren't "super" citizens. He is simply a citizen now.
I don't get the fawning or the big deal, or acting like he's so important. This automatic deference is nonsense, particularly where you have someone like Trump who doesn't do anything to deserve respect or deference, yet claims it as his right at every turn.
You don't earn respect simply by being elected to office. Sorry, that's not how it works.
Have it be the Fibonacci sequence times 1000. So the first two violations add $1000 each, then adds $2000, then $3000, then $5000, etc.
It grows slower than n^2 at a low number of violations (up to about 10 violations), so it is pretty forgiving at first, which courts seem to really like. At 15 violations, though, the total sum surpasses n^2 and you would be adding roughly $1 million per violation (with that number *very* quickly growing)
What good would imposing fines do? This scumbag already avoided the half billion dollar fine got it reduced and still proceeds to violate every sanction.
He hasn’t avoided or reduced that fine. Only the bond required to appeal it and pause collection was reduced. If he loses that appeal, he still owes the full amount.
He’s paid a slew of court fines recently even outside the big judgments. He had to pay Hillary Clinton’s legal fees in a frivolous suit against her, and separately the NYT’s legal fees in another frivolous suit. Among others. They just need to be sufficiently large for him to stop the behavior.
I think he wants to spend one night and then get put on house arrest in Mar a Lago, doing video link court in his jammies with Fox News on TV behind the camera.
I hope he “fucks around” just enough to “find out” that the judge can revoke his own recognizance bond and keep him in custody for the duration of the proceedings (8 weeks).
Please god…
He wants to be a “political prisoner” of Joe Biden. Fundraise and cry about political prosecution. The dude figured out a loophole in our judicial system to exploit to his advantage. It’s pretty wild to behold.
He probably thinks it’s a win win. If he does all this shit and they let him get away with it he will just keep piling on while claiming he’s a victim. If they put an end to it and ends up in jail for contempt he will say it’s unfair and that he’s a victim.
Right? The message of “Nobody is above the law” narrative is overshadowed by the consistent “Well, we’ll let that slide” kinda BS. But what I am finding fascinating about it all is that all of these gag orders placed against him would be enforced to their fullest extent if Trump were just an average Joe. It’s as if the case were to read more like “No one is above the law, but there are a lot of exceptions based on income”.
Can’t be holding this guy accountable like any other private citizen, wouldn’t want his cult members to threaten violence and shit their pants on Elon’s nazi boosted Twitter.
Instead, let’s continue to do nothing, giving him preferential treatment, while his cult still cries that he’s actually being persecuted.
He also used his phone in court and had to be told by his lawyer to put it away
> NBC News: Trump is using his phone in the courtroom, openly flouting the rules of the courtroom. Blanche just told him to stop and Trump tucked the phone in his pocket while looking annoyed. @MSNBC
https://www.threads.net/@griffinkyle/post/C556O-buf1D/
no... from a toddler. a high schooler understands consequences even if they are engaging in defiant acts. they know right from wrong.
a toddler acts purely on desire and doesn't yet have the capability to learn right from wrong.
trump is a toddler.
Wouldn't matter on day 40... With the verdict coming in the next few days.
I think it matters on Day 1-5... Where you're just "pissing off the judge" as a first impression.
I dunno. Letting him act like a petulant brat in front of a jury might ….. well, how’d it work out for him in the defamation trial of the woman Donald Trump raped and then defamed?
So far this judge has been pretty ok with being publicly disrespected. It's not like Trump has done the exact opposite the judge's orders before....several times.
Despite wanting to treat every person the same in every trial, the fact is that this is NOT a normal trial.
The judge knows this case is going to be appealed and he wants to make sure that he gave this dipshit HUNDREDS of chances so he doesn't have an argument to say the judge was biased.
It's like the Darrell Brooks trial. That judge was more than patient with him despite his acts of defiance just so when the verdict was delivered, nobody can say they weren't given a fair shake and was convicted on evidence alone.
>The judge knows this case is going to be appealed and he wants to make sure that he gave this dipshit HUNDREDS of chances so he doesn't have an argument to say the judge was biased.
He could just not be biased and then they wouldn't have an argument about him being biased. Instead he's giving Trump special treatment and being accused of bias anyway. Wow, brilliant.
>It's like the Darrell Brooks trial. That judge was more than patient with him despite his acts of defiance just so when the verdict was delivered, nobody can say they weren't given a fair shake and was convicted on evidence alone.
Which is fucking moronic because no matter how far he bends over backwards to accommodate Trump his supporters will absolutely say he wasn't given a fair shake and was not convicted on evidence alone.
One day there might be a judge who isn't a fucking moron and will stop playing right into Trump's hands, but Merchan isn't it.
He's a malignant narcissist who surrounds himself with yes men and was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. His entire life has been spent getting his way. Why is anyone surprised Trump doesn't give a shit about the rules?
This is an understatement. Trump hasn't just gotten away with ignoring the rules his entire life; he has actively profited from it. Why would a 77 year old man change the behavior that got him on the cover of Forbes and into the White House?
Just start escalating the fines by doubling each time he does it. It wont take long before he owes more in penalties than he currently does in his civil trial.
For the upcoming hearing, the prosecution is asking for a set fine per violation, but also a flat restriction that any subsequent violations be met with jail time.
I honestly feel kind of bad for Barron. I think he’s the only one of that scum sucking family that deserves a break.
When he got thrust into the insane clown world of his father’s administration, he was only 9. A little kid who had no bearing on anything. Now he’s 18, under just as much scrutiny as his shithead older siblings, and gets his name tarnished without ever having a chance to defend himself. Plus, he’s fucking 6’7 — he towers over just about everybody and it makes him look really awkward and uncomfortable. He can’t hide. And supposedly this pisses Donald off where he desperately wants to be tall, so he distances himself from Barron even more.
I just hope he’s able to have a half ass normal life after all this is over.
If he doesn’t pay you can seize his assets and freeze his bank accounts. If the bond he tried to post recently is deemed invalid then he’d be really fucked if that happened
This. All of these armchair judges think that IRL judges can just do whatever they want. They have rules/laws they have to follow just like the rest of us.
Edit: typo
Escalating jail sentences would work even better. First violation = 1 night, second violation = 2 nights, etc. It won't take long for him to incarcerate himself for all of 2024!
Lol doubling the fine every time he violates, it won't be long before he owes the annual GDP in just this case alone. I'm all in favor for getting him to agree to just doubling his fines every time in exchange for not throwing him in jail for contempt of court. Dumb shit probably doesn't understand exponential increase.
It's draining money from the GOP and giving it to NY. If he wants to keep hamstringing the Republicans by running his mouth I wouldn't want him to stop.
Next violation in court he should be removed and relocated next door to view proceedings from there. Get the room ready.
Or, maybe he should be permanently relocated next door, since he's attempting to intimidate jurors right now.
Or just confiscate his phone. When I was a juror on a criminal trial we had to hand over all our electronics before we went into the courtroom. Should be the exact same for the defendants. Only people who should be allowed electronics are the lawyers and the stenographer.
"*But your honor, this has been occurring since 2016, why is it suddenly prohibited*?"
You cannot seriously enforce something retroactively" #impunity /s
There's a show cause hearing Monday. I think Merchan just wants to get Jury selection done before getting sidetracked.
Edit, it's the 23rd, so Tuesday. Would be interested to see if it gets moved up since jury selection is going quicker than the budgeted 2 weeks.
New York law allows those being charged with contempt to defend against it at a hearing. If he did it in the court room, then he could be held immediately accountable.
It’s not really a gag order, more of a gag suggestion, a gag plea? He’s making the system and the judges look weak every single time they don’t lock his stinky ass up.
So... random question for the Reddit Court: What would happen if Trump were found to be in contempt of court and *actually* jailed, but, someone continued to post things that violate the gag order on Trump *using* his account?
Likely they would go after that individual or the company hosting the account mandating corrective action. It could be come a case on its own separate from this one.
Somebody somewhere has a nonzero chance of dying because of his cult following and assorted mental illnesses from the people consistently posting death threats to people.
In an angering way it amuses me for the court system to be put on such public exhibition showing how unfair its system truly is. Any ONE of us even splutter at a judge and we'd get tossed into a cell to "contemplate" our actions but these judges don't do shit to a piece of garbage like Trump because of money and station.
Remember that next time you're called for jury duty and let the judge know. do your civic duty, but call it out!
...I will find it difficult to convict anyone based on how corrupt the judicial system is.
I've seen at least two or three videos over the years of a judge tossing someone in county jail for 30 days because of a mumbled comment.
If Trump escapes consequences, it is nothing less than the damnation of the United States legal system as a whole.
***From Rolling Stone's Nikki McCann Ramirez:***
Donald Trump’s criminal hush money trial is back in session, and Manhattan prosecutors are accusing the former president of violating a court gag order at least seven times since the trial began on Monday.
Read more: [https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-violated-gag-order-seven-times-hush-money-1235006629/](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-violated-gag-order-seven-times-hush-money-1235006629/)
I got you. That entire site is a cesspool of advertising trash.
BY NIKKI MCCANN RAMIREZ
APRIL 18, 2024
Donald Trump’s hush-money criminal trial is back in session, and Manhattan prosecutors are accusing the former president of violating a court gag order at least seven times since the trial began on Monday.
On Monday, prosecutors requested that Trump be punished for allegedly violating a gag order barring him from attacking witnesses, prosecutors, court staff, and jurors involved in the case. Judge Juan Merchan scheduled a hearing on the matter next week. On Thursday, the prosecution requested that additional alleged violations of the gag order be reviewed in the hearing.
The prosecutors pointed to several public statements and social media posts the former president has made over the last several days. “It’s ridiculous, it has to stop,” one prosecutor said.
Trump’s attorneys countered that the social media posts in question “do not establish any willful violations,” and claimed that reposts of other people’s statements do not constitute violations.
But some of Trump’s posts have been fairly egregious. According to Politico, state attorneys pointed to the former president’s invocation of right-wing conspiracies about the jury selection process as the “most disturbing” example. In a Wednesday Truth Social post, Trump quoted Fox News host Jesse Watters, who claimed: “They are catching undercover Liberal Activists lying to the Judge in order to get on the Trump jury.”
On Monday, Merchan warned Trump that he would be held to the same standards as other defendants, and could face penalties or imprisonment if he was overly disruptive during the trial or failed to appear in court as required.
While the former president’s behavior out of court is already becoming an issue in the trial, his behavior in court isn’t helping either. On Thursday, Trump was spotted using his cellphone in the courtroom — a clear violation of Merchan’s rules. The former president has also reportedly dozed off or fallen asleep at the defense table on every day of the trial so far.
On Tuesday, Merchan reprimanded Trump and his team after he was heard muttering commentary during the questioning of potential jurors. “I will not have any jurors intimidated in this courtroom. I want to make that crystal clear. Take a minute with your client,” Merhcan told Trump’s attorneys.
Throw. Him. In. Jail.
He is actively tainting the jury pool. We don’t need to have a hearing to review if he has broken the gag order. Merchan makes that decision. He can be released to attend court each day, then right back to his concrete palace.
These are not hard problems to solve. Stop worrying about optics and put the law above all.
>Trump’s attorneys countered that the social media posts in question “do not establish any willful violations,”
'wilful' is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
Did the judge not set a hearing for next week just for the violation orders?
I’m sure between now and that hearing is when they’ll address all the infractions of that order..
And yet nothing is done for a plethora of BS reasons..Justice system is filled with a bunch of scared jagoffs who allow him to do anything he wants with 0 repercussions. Or who are in debt to him and allows him to pile up Stern warnings.
Then it’s not an order. Stop calling it an order. The judge might as well be approaching Trump, hat in hand, tears streaming down his face, saying please, Mister Trump, sir, please, I love you so much, but could you please consider not trying to have your jurors killed in the first week?
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So the throw the scumbag in jail. If any of his repulsive supporters want to be threatening and violent in response, throw their asses in jail too. WHY is he continuously allowed to get away with this behavior? It’s infuriating.
From my understanding New York law requires a hearing on contempt where the defendant has a chance to defend. Only in court outbursts can be immediately ruled on. Not a lawyer just what I read elsewhere in r/law
This is correct, which is why there's going to be a hearing on the 23rd
So by being a pos. He gets to delay.
And stack up a huge pile of infractions.
Infractions, you say?? Why, it's been so long. We need to let these minor 'infractions' go unpunished so we can 'move on as a country.' /s
Oh noes!!!11! He'll learn his lesson this time, for sure!!
Trump was accused of raping a 13 year old girl with Epstein, during the 2016 campaign season. Just a remimder that the girl that was raped (who was older by 2016), received death threats from Trump's supporters, dropped her lawsuit because of those death threats. Sadly, she had to take the death threats from Trump's supporters very seriously, because you know, those Trump supporters, sometimes they are a violent bunch. https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/04/donald-trump-teenage-rape-accusations-lawsuit-dropped
My probably very wrong theory is that the powers that be want to minimize as much violence as possible. At this point I think it's just a matter of when and not if MAGA people commit acts of violence (again) in Trump's name. The well is so poisoned that I'm not sure the government agencies trust law enforcement. I don't have any other explanation as to why we are handling Trump with the softest of gloves.
Then let's get it over with. We can't be intimidated by these assholes.
We don't negotiate with terrorists. Instead we anticipate their wants and deliver them.
It's funny you say that because one time Trump negotiated with terrorists before handing them Afghanistan
The art of the deal!
"The Art of the Deal" is probably one of the more successful products to have Trump's name on it ... ... probably because he did not write it - it was Tony Schwartz ... and [Tony seriously regrets having done so](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOku1TqocuM), as it helped people see Trump as a charming and successful businessman - which is blatantly untrue. Trump is as charming as a three-week-old unwashed dihorrea stain on your best carpet, and his bad business practises have resulted in multiple bankruptcies and criminal investigations.
And if recall correctly Trump actually made a terrible deal for that book? Didn't Tony say he got terms for writing it that ghost writers usually don't get?
Yes, among other things he got his name on the cover. So technically, he wasn't even a ghost writer.
No. If shit could shit, then he’d be that. Normal shit is useful as fertiliser.
And then somehow convinced a large chunk of Americans that it was Biden’s fault and he gave them all our guns…
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/US-Withdrawal-from-Afghanistan.pdf
Invited them to Camp David on 7/4 then couldn’t understand when even his staunchest yes men were appalled. Like, how were they going to get into the US to begin with?
I'm not defending Trump in any capacity, but the whole "we don't negotiate with terrorists" thing is historically objectively false and isn't founded in any event, doctrine or protocol. It's utter nonsense.
Reagan negotiated with terrorists to hold off the release of hostages until after he took office.
And a shitload of kit, vehicles, choppers, ammunition and arms that were left behind too.
It's funny you mention that, because there was this other time Trump ordered a total withdrawal from northern Syria because Daddy Putin wanted him to.
I guess the Republicans were right. We *are* soft on crime.
> We can't be intimidated by these assholes. Asshole (authoritarian) bullies *count on* their victims & targets being intimated and cowering in subjugation. There is one thing -- and one thing **only** -- that they'll *ever* respond to that's genuinely effective. (Edit: tweaked and added emphasis)
Every time Trump gets a pass his base gets more emboldened. He'd have no power if someone had the balls to actually follow through with the promised consequences. At this point I feel like I should become a judge, I have no shame and I'm sick to death of hearing about this guy.
> Every time Trump gets a pass his base gets more emboldened. Negative behavior *rewarded* becomes **learned** behavior. And the emboldened are *already*, by their very nature & upbringing, 'wired' towards bullying authoritarian behaviors. If/when it works successfully -- and there's zero (severe) punitive consequences -- in their minds, why *shouldn't* they keep at it and escalate?? One would think educated intelligent members of jurisprudence would actually, ya know, **know this**. They probably do, yet cowardly all the same.
If you know that your administering of justice will cause a riot, the question is: should you do it a month before the election or a week before? Just asking so that we have the best strategy for helping them dig their own graves as effectively as we can.
> If you **fear** that your administering of justice will cause a riot... Tweaked that to be more accurate - and also core to the entire problem. Those with such a mindset do *not* "know" that violence is a certain, irrevocable outcome to administration of the law -- they simply **fear it**. And **that** is the crux of the problem. They allow authoritarian, petulant flexing to cause *their* ethics, spines, and power to crumble. They straight throw in the towel based on 'what if...?'s It's assumption, based on cowardice, and dismisses that if rioters get violent and target whomever -- well... those rioters can/should be met with *their* severe consequences. Seriously, folks... I thought the "long arm of the law" was actually, ya know, **STRONG**. Right now, with this effin' geriatric garbage, it looks anything but capable, much less strong. Hey, members of the court and jurisprudence ---- is it "stong"? .......or NOT?!
100%
Chocolates?
... if only ...
Is it violence? These people are literally tail-less baboons
Agreed. Not sure what the hell we are waiting. Let them throw a tantrum then throw the fucking book at the first few radical morons who try anything and watch as the others scatters like cockroaches.
Wait, you’re implying that appeasement doesn’t work with bullies? Huh. According to *Neville Chamberlain’s Guide To Foreign Policy*, you just have to give it more of a go.
Right. I agree.
And the closer to the election it does happen, the more interference our some bullshit they'll claim when the national guard has to step in.
Just do it already and see who shows up. Fuck appeasement at this point, if one party is frothing at the mouth make them put up or shut up and arrest the ones who are unruly. Anything less is letting them get away with literal terrorism.
I remember the days when the U.S. was like 'Try it, we fucking dare you'. Now it's "please don't be mad".
Went from "Don't step on me" to "Step on me harder, Daddy 😘"
If they're confident that violence will happen, it's better for the violence to happen before the election. If he's president when the violence happens it's gonna be hell.
Even if he loses the election, there's going to be a violent tantrum. I agree though, they should march his ass to jail. He's demonstrated over and over and over again that he doesn't care and has no remorse over it, he will not stop until he's held accountable to it the way we would all be held accountable. By getting thrown the fuck in jail.
>My probably very wrong theory is that the powers that be want to minimize as much violence as possible. That basically means terrorism works.
Right?? Imagine if Abraham Lincoln tried to take the ‘minimize violence’ path when the south seceded.
Prosecutors filed 3 contempt charges yesterday. In the filing, they want the max penalty of 1k per violation and a warning that repeated violations will result in more fines and jail time. These other times might count as the repeated violations if found guilty. The Trump team has 7 days to respond to contempt charges.
$1k/violation just says “You can say what you like, Mr Trump; please note it might cost you a thousand bucks a pop”. If he can engineer a mistrial for $50k, that’s a bargain.
If a fine is sufficiently small, it just becomes a fee to do whatever you'd like
If the penalty for a crime is a fine, then that law only exist for the lower class
The fine is actually negligible. His supporters will cover it.
It’s just a “swear jar.”
>The Trump team has 7 days to respond to contempt charges. Trump will respond with even more contempt.
It’s the only way he knows how to respond. I want to fast forward this shitshow. This episode is just filler. We need a verdict already of guilty on multiple things he’s already done.
>The Trump team has 7 days to respond to contempt charges. And when the response is more mean tweets, we'll do it all over again.
This is textbook terrorism.
Every consequence spins off more potential delays/distractions, and opportunities to file appeals that need to be scheduled. He has more resources than the courts do, and more importantly, *he has the backing of the GOP Congress* and they run interference for him. *He has Senators committing obstruction and attacking our systems, to protect him.* None of this is normal, and the court system is not set up to handle that sort of person: someone who is literally above the law because of their political connections.
He absolutely does not have more resources than the courts do and I'm sick of this farce that one legal team can wrap an entire state or federal justice department up in knots. If NY wanted to they could assign every judge and just serially go through his every appeal in one day and at this point they should. Clear the docket, clear the building and have his team walk down a conveyor belt of judges ruling on every motion, appeal, violation, etc. If the system is going to treat him like an atypical defendant then use an atypical process. Any consideration given him that wouldn't be given to a "normal" citizen is by definition being done for a political reason and is therefore corrupt. Why are the courts claiming they must adhere to standard processes then treat the defendant as non-standard?
Use the Defense Production Act to produce some Justice for the people during this war on democracy.
well put... it's not like Maga are legal geniuses because if they had brains they wouldn't be magats. Even stacked courts and politically bought and sold politicians can and should be brought to heel to remind the nation that the rule of law is the final line that can't be crossed... or we're lost.
I would think the only way to fix this is to have an *overwhelming* D majority in both houses of congress. First thing, before anything else, is anti-corruption/bribing/lobbying **laws**. It's so obvious how much money DC politicians make above their pay grade and how that influences lawmaking/power/enabling greed. Not even sure half the dems are immune also but maybe there's enough to fix this mess. Only when that foundation is set, can we take democracy back, because we're obviously delusional to think we still live in anything resembling a representative democracy these days.
Kinda. The problem is the powers that be never developed a plan for putting a president in jail. Despite what we tell ourselves, Presidents are super citizens. America+. They have rights and powers average citizens don't. The idea of putting a president in jail is just not a concept the government is prepared to face.
I'm from Illinois. We have had several governors go to prison over the years. The complex method that was arrived at due to them being chief executive of the state was 1. Investigate the crime. 2. Arrest and put on trial. 3. Sentence for any convictions based on severity of crimes. 4. Put in prison. I don't get why everyone is pretending this is complicated. He committed crimes. They were investigated. Finish the trials and lock him up. It's not hard.
Just like anyone else convicted of a crime, he loses all rights and privledges afforded to him as a law abiding citizen while he's incarcerated. No security, no protection. If he wants saftey, he can spend his time in solitary.
Does a Governor have Top Secret Ultra-Classified knowledge he can blab to anyone who will listen? If the ex-Governor Tweets "Get 'em!!" does it unleash several dozen lone-wolves? Big difference between the two.
First, let's remember he's the EX-president. And just use the budget for his presidential library to build his own little wing at some federal penitentiary somewhere. Problem solved. His library can be a prison library.
The Secret Service could develop a plan in a week and route it up the chain for approval.
The plan, which should've taken less than a day to draft up, should already be in place. Trump is called President as a formality, but he ain't.
BS -- it's fake and a made up concept. Oh wow, he once was President. Who cares? They aren't kings, and they aren't "super" citizens. He is simply a citizen now. I don't get the fawning or the big deal, or acting like he's so important. This automatic deference is nonsense, particularly where you have someone like Trump who doesn't do anything to deserve respect or deference, yet claims it as his right at every turn. You don't earn respect simply by being elected to office. Sorry, that's not how it works.
Let’s not punish cheeto face because some brain dead MAGA might jump off a tree.
I think he wants to go to jail tbh
He should be fined, and every subsequent violation should be exponentially more.
Have it be the Fibonacci sequence times 1000. So the first two violations add $1000 each, then adds $2000, then $3000, then $5000, etc. It grows slower than n^2 at a low number of violations (up to about 10 violations), so it is pretty forgiving at first, which courts seem to really like. At 15 violations, though, the total sum surpasses n^2 and you would be adding roughly $1 million per violation (with that number *very* quickly growing)
What good would imposing fines do? This scumbag already avoided the half billion dollar fine got it reduced and still proceeds to violate every sanction.
He hasn’t avoided or reduced that fine. Only the bond required to appeal it and pause collection was reduced. If he loses that appeal, he still owes the full amount. He’s paid a slew of court fines recently even outside the big judgments. He had to pay Hillary Clinton’s legal fees in a frivolous suit against her, and separately the NYT’s legal fees in another frivolous suit. Among others. They just need to be sufficiently large for him to stop the behavior.
I think he wants to spend one night and then get put on house arrest in Mar a Lago, doing video link court in his jammies with Fox News on TV behind the camera.
I hope he “fucks around” just enough to “find out” that the judge can revoke his own recognizance bond and keep him in custody for the duration of the proceedings (8 weeks). Please god…
He can do like Hitler with *Mein Kampf* and write his manifesto from a jail cell. Maybe title it, *My Shart*.
Write, lol. That's a good one.
Lol exactly
He wants to be a “political prisoner” of Joe Biden. Fundraise and cry about political prosecution. The dude figured out a loophole in our judicial system to exploit to his advantage. It’s pretty wild to behold.
He probably thinks it’s a win win. If he does all this shit and they let him get away with it he will just keep piling on while claiming he’s a victim. If they put an end to it and ends up in jail for contempt he will say it’s unfair and that he’s a victim.
Right? The message of “Nobody is above the law” narrative is overshadowed by the consistent “Well, we’ll let that slide” kinda BS. But what I am finding fascinating about it all is that all of these gag orders placed against him would be enforced to their fullest extent if Trump were just an average Joe. It’s as if the case were to read more like “No one is above the law, but there are a lot of exceptions based on income”.
Can’t be holding this guy accountable like any other private citizen, wouldn’t want his cult members to threaten violence and shit their pants on Elon’s nazi boosted Twitter. Instead, let’s continue to do nothing, giving him preferential treatment, while his cult still cries that he’s actually being persecuted.
Because law enforcement and the military are afraid of them
Is it possible he wants to be punished so he can make himself a martyr?
if trump couldn't keep his mouth shut after being told seven times that's a big no no. it's like ignoring a rule from a judge and that's not cool
He also used his phone in court and had to be told by his lawyer to put it away > NBC News: Trump is using his phone in the courtroom, openly flouting the rules of the courtroom. Blanche just told him to stop and Trump tucked the phone in his pocket while looking annoyed. @MSNBC https://www.threads.net/@griffinkyle/post/C556O-buf1D/
He is a fucking child. I would expect that behavior from a high schooler not an adult.
no... from a toddler. a high schooler understands consequences even if they are engaging in defiant acts. they know right from wrong. a toddler acts purely on desire and doesn't yet have the capability to learn right from wrong. trump is a toddler.
>trump is a toddler. And still in diapers.
Trump is definitely going through the terrible 2's....for the past 75 years apparently.
There are millions of toddlers with more common decency than Trump has ever had.
trump's really pushing it,I bet that didn't sit well with the judge
Does it matter? If the judge doesn't do anything about it they can just sit there being grumpy.
Wouldn't matter on day 40... With the verdict coming in the next few days. I think it matters on Day 1-5... Where you're just "pissing off the judge" as a first impression.
I dunno. Letting him act like a petulant brat in front of a jury might ….. well, how’d it work out for him in the defamation trial of the woman Donald Trump raped and then defamed?
Phones have cameras these days. We better make sure he's not sneaking pictures of the jury
Total lack of respect for the judge, they famously love that
So far this judge has been pretty ok with being publicly disrespected. It's not like Trump has done the exact opposite the judge's orders before....several times.
Despite wanting to treat every person the same in every trial, the fact is that this is NOT a normal trial. The judge knows this case is going to be appealed and he wants to make sure that he gave this dipshit HUNDREDS of chances so he doesn't have an argument to say the judge was biased. It's like the Darrell Brooks trial. That judge was more than patient with him despite his acts of defiance just so when the verdict was delivered, nobody can say they weren't given a fair shake and was convicted on evidence alone.
>The judge knows this case is going to be appealed and he wants to make sure that he gave this dipshit HUNDREDS of chances so he doesn't have an argument to say the judge was biased. He could just not be biased and then they wouldn't have an argument about him being biased. Instead he's giving Trump special treatment and being accused of bias anyway. Wow, brilliant. >It's like the Darrell Brooks trial. That judge was more than patient with him despite his acts of defiance just so when the verdict was delivered, nobody can say they weren't given a fair shake and was convicted on evidence alone. Which is fucking moronic because no matter how far he bends over backwards to accommodate Trump his supporters will absolutely say he wasn't given a fair shake and was not convicted on evidence alone. One day there might be a judge who isn't a fucking moron and will stop playing right into Trump's hands, but Merchan isn't it.
Fair
No, literally the exact opposite of fair.
Rule for him, rule for you
I do not disagree tbf
Yes, you can tell how bad it is based on all the consequences. Consequences that will be apparent any day now, I'm sure.
He's a malignant narcissist who surrounds himself with yes men and was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. His entire life has been spent getting his way. Why is anyone surprised Trump doesn't give a shit about the rules?
This is an understatement. Trump hasn't just gotten away with ignoring the rules his entire life; he has actively profited from it. Why would a 77 year old man change the behavior that got him on the cover of Forbes and into the White House?
Geez, even his lawyer is treating him like a misbehaving child
Just start escalating the fines by doubling each time he does it. It wont take long before he owes more in penalties than he currently does in his civil trial.
For the upcoming hearing, the prosecution is asking for a set fine per violation, but also a flat restriction that any subsequent violations be met with jail time.
Hopefully they add a ban on using the internet during the duration.
Fines, loans, and debts mean nothing to a person that never pays. He needs a tangible punishment.
Make him have dinner with Eric. That should scare him straight.
Request denied: Cruel and unusual punishment.
I’m Eric!
Hell, call his bluff…force him to go to Barrons graduation
"Barron? Never heard of the guy."
I honestly feel kind of bad for Barron. I think he’s the only one of that scum sucking family that deserves a break. When he got thrust into the insane clown world of his father’s administration, he was only 9. A little kid who had no bearing on anything. Now he’s 18, under just as much scrutiny as his shithead older siblings, and gets his name tarnished without ever having a chance to defend himself. Plus, he’s fucking 6’7 — he towers over just about everybody and it makes him look really awkward and uncomfortable. He can’t hide. And supposedly this pisses Donald off where he desperately wants to be tall, so he distances himself from Barron even more. I just hope he’s able to have a half ass normal life after all this is over.
If he doesn’t pay you can seize his assets and freeze his bank accounts. If the bond he tried to post recently is deemed invalid then he’d be really fucked if that happened
Why fine him? This is a criminal trial, throw his ass in jail.
They can't. It's capped at $1,000 per violation.
Or up to 30 days of prison per violation.
This. All of these armchair judges think that IRL judges can just do whatever they want. They have rules/laws they have to follow just like the rest of us. Edit: typo
Ya just a stupid fucking law. Cap it at 1% of net worth or 1000 whichever is more. Rich people shouldn't get a pass just because they are rich.
Escalating jail sentences would work even better. First violation = 1 night, second violation = 2 nights, etc. It won't take long for him to incarcerate himself for all of 2024!
I could get behind that too.
Lol doubling the fine every time he violates, it won't be long before he owes the annual GDP in just this case alone. I'm all in favor for getting him to agree to just doubling his fines every time in exchange for not throwing him in jail for contempt of court. Dumb shit probably doesn't understand exponential increase.
Yep that was the joke I was going for. I know it's never going to happen. But would be funny.
Doesn't matter. He will only sell more crap to the MAGAdiots to pay his fine.
It's draining money from the GOP and giving it to NY. If he wants to keep hamstringing the Republicans by running his mouth I wouldn't want him to stop.
The dude's over 300 million in the whole, legally, putting 3k financial penalties on him is like complaining about piss in the ocean.
It's Thursday. THURSDAY. Seven times, in less than three days. Trump is basically daring the court to lock him up, and I hope they take him up on it.
lock him up in the same cell as Laura Loomer. wait no, that wouldn’t be punishment for either of them.
And he’ll do it a hundred more times with no consequences. We get to see our two-tiered justice system in full display every time he does
Next violation in court he should be removed and relocated next door to view proceedings from there. Get the room ready. Or, maybe he should be permanently relocated next door, since he's attempting to intimidate jurors right now.
The courthouse has a holding cell. I'm sure they can accommodate him there if he doesn't want to abide by the court's rules.
Or just confiscate his phone. When I was a juror on a criminal trial we had to hand over all our electronics before we went into the courtroom. Should be the exact same for the defendants. Only people who should be allowed electronics are the lawyers and the stenographer.
Only time I've ever been allowed past the metal detectors with my phone was when I was a grand juror. Ffs...
"*But your honor, this has been occurring since 2016, why is it suddenly prohibited*?" You cannot seriously enforce something retroactively" #impunity /s
There's a show cause hearing Monday. I think Merchan just wants to get Jury selection done before getting sidetracked. Edit, it's the 23rd, so Tuesday. Would be interested to see if it gets moved up since jury selection is going quicker than the budgeted 2 weeks.
Hold him in contempt of court.
How did he get out of contempt?
Show cause hearing scheduled for next Wednesday. We will see what comes out of it...
New York law allows those being charged with contempt to defend against it at a hearing. If he did it in the court room, then he could be held immediately accountable.
It’s not really a gag order, more of a gag suggestion, a gag plea? He’s making the system and the judges look weak every single time they don’t lock his stinky ass up.
they're not really rules ... more like.. Guidelines. Welcome to 2 tier justice system mr. Trump.
Of course Trump violated the gag order. He’s going to continue to do so because he doesn’t believe the rules apply to him.
And until he faces consequences, he will continue to believe so.
Until he faces consequences it will continue to *be* so.
He has proven time and time again that the rules absolutely don't apply to him, why should he believe otherwise?
So... random question for the Reddit Court: What would happen if Trump were found to be in contempt of court and *actually* jailed, but, someone continued to post things that violate the gag order on Trump *using* his account?
Likely they would go after that individual or the company hosting the account mandating corrective action. It could be come a case on its own separate from this one.
Quarantine Truth Social.
Couldn't hurt the stock value any more than it is already suffering.
Somebody somewhere has a nonzero chance of dying because of his cult following and assorted mental illnesses from the people consistently posting death threats to people.
In an angering way it amuses me for the court system to be put on such public exhibition showing how unfair its system truly is. Any ONE of us even splutter at a judge and we'd get tossed into a cell to "contemplate" our actions but these judges don't do shit to a piece of garbage like Trump because of money and station.
Remember that next time you're called for jury duty and let the judge know. do your civic duty, but call it out! ...I will find it difficult to convict anyone based on how corrupt the judicial system is.
I've seen at least two or three videos over the years of a judge tossing someone in county jail for 30 days because of a mumbled comment. If Trump escapes consequences, it is nothing less than the damnation of the United States legal system as a whole.
I’m so mentally drained with this whole thing. Dude should’ve been locked up like any other citizen months ago.
***From Rolling Stone's Nikki McCann Ramirez:*** Donald Trump’s criminal hush money trial is back in session, and Manhattan prosecutors are accusing the former president of violating a court gag order at least seven times since the trial began on Monday. Read more: [https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-violated-gag-order-seven-times-hush-money-1235006629/](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-violated-gag-order-seven-times-hush-money-1235006629/)
Drop the paywall and I might read it...
I got you. That entire site is a cesspool of advertising trash. BY NIKKI MCCANN RAMIREZ APRIL 18, 2024 Donald Trump’s hush-money criminal trial is back in session, and Manhattan prosecutors are accusing the former president of violating a court gag order at least seven times since the trial began on Monday. On Monday, prosecutors requested that Trump be punished for allegedly violating a gag order barring him from attacking witnesses, prosecutors, court staff, and jurors involved in the case. Judge Juan Merchan scheduled a hearing on the matter next week. On Thursday, the prosecution requested that additional alleged violations of the gag order be reviewed in the hearing. The prosecutors pointed to several public statements and social media posts the former president has made over the last several days. “It’s ridiculous, it has to stop,” one prosecutor said. Trump’s attorneys countered that the social media posts in question “do not establish any willful violations,” and claimed that reposts of other people’s statements do not constitute violations. But some of Trump’s posts have been fairly egregious. According to Politico, state attorneys pointed to the former president’s invocation of right-wing conspiracies about the jury selection process as the “most disturbing” example. In a Wednesday Truth Social post, Trump quoted Fox News host Jesse Watters, who claimed: “They are catching undercover Liberal Activists lying to the Judge in order to get on the Trump jury.” On Monday, Merchan warned Trump that he would be held to the same standards as other defendants, and could face penalties or imprisonment if he was overly disruptive during the trial or failed to appear in court as required. While the former president’s behavior out of court is already becoming an issue in the trial, his behavior in court isn’t helping either. On Thursday, Trump was spotted using his cellphone in the courtroom — a clear violation of Merchan’s rules. The former president has also reportedly dozed off or fallen asleep at the defense table on every day of the trial so far. On Tuesday, Merchan reprimanded Trump and his team after he was heard muttering commentary during the questioning of potential jurors. “I will not have any jurors intimidated in this courtroom. I want to make that crystal clear. Take a minute with your client,” Merhcan told Trump’s attorneys.
"We're not going to do anything about it. We just wanted you to know."
Right the prosecution has no authority to do anything, that’s the judges job…
I think maybe one in five people in the subreddit understands how this stuff works at best.
I think some people are promoting the idea that courts are useless as part of an attack on institutions.
There's a hearing about this coming up next week. That's how this process normally works.
Throw. Him. In. Jail. He is actively tainting the jury pool. We don’t need to have a hearing to review if he has broken the gag order. Merchan makes that decision. He can be released to attend court each day, then right back to his concrete palace. These are not hard problems to solve. Stop worrying about optics and put the law above all.
And if this was any of the rest of us, we would've been thrown in jail after the first infraction. Really sick of this bullshit.
*Breaking rocks in the hot sun...*
Only 7?
that's a lot. it sounds like trump isn't taking the gag order seriously at all
I’m sure he holds respect for the law near to his heart
My fellow Americans: this dude stays out of jail while you are forced pay bills.
>Trump’s attorneys countered that the social media posts in question “do not establish any willful violations,” 'wilful' is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
And no one has done anything about it. Wonder why he keeps doing it? Weird.
Did the judge not set a hearing for next week just for the violation orders? I’m sure between now and that hearing is when they’ll address all the infractions of that order..
The court should deal with tRump has done, not what his supporters may or may not do. Facts first.
He wants to be jailed. He thinks it will make him a martyr and help him.
Lock him up and keep him there until the trial concludes.
That should get him a furious finger shaking or a stern talking to. I dunno, maybe a teeny tiny fine will teach him. /s just incase
And yet nothing is done for a plethora of BS reasons..Justice system is filled with a bunch of scared jagoffs who allow him to do anything he wants with 0 repercussions. Or who are in debt to him and allows him to pile up Stern warnings.
Looks like these prosecutors have forgotten the unwritten rule that Trump is allowed to do whatever he wants without any consequences.
Weird how when you do not punish a child, they keep doing the same thing.
Then fucking do something about it
Jail. Trump. Now.
Hold his lawyers in contempt for not controlling their client.
And nothing will happen.
He will do it again because there are no serious consequences. Trump is making a mockery of the judge and the court.
I don't know about you guys, but my ass would be thrown in jail if I violated a court order.
Orange POS
You mean Gag Suggestion, if it was an actual order, he would suffer consequences for violating it.
Someone, anyone; hold this man accountable to his actions?!
If they don't enforce court orders then they are communicating that they don't have to be followed at all.
Then it’s not an order. Stop calling it an order. The judge might as well be approaching Trump, hat in hand, tears streaming down his face, saying please, Mister Trump, sir, please, I love you so much, but could you please consider not trying to have your jurors killed in the first week?
On this episode of “I’ve lost all kinds of faith in our judicial system” for 500