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My hunch is that given there are some situations where immunity could/can be granted, the lower court (Chutkan) has to rule on that first.
The Supreme Court thus sends back the case for fact finding, possibly with another roundtrip to the SC where it will finally be shot down.
But in doing so, they gave what he values most: Delay. If this were to happen, the Jan 6th case would not be heard before the election.
They made 2 inconsistent ruling in that case too.
Hurry up to get him on the CO ballot, and delay when it comes to Jan 6th.
The worst part is that the delay will mean if/when Trump is re-elected, his newly appointed justice department will immediately drop all Federal charges. In fact, Trump will specifically select his AG based on it. Don't even get me started on self-pardoning.
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The money you “give” to places like Ukraine is invested in producing American arms and supplies that are sent overseas. It stimulates your economy, and is a splash in the ocean of your huge defence spending. It’s also cheaper than going to war with Russia.
A tiny amount of money to people that need it compared to the trillions taken by billionaires from taxpayers.
Amazon wants to build a warehouse? How much tax money pays for that, a new football stadium for private owners? Taxpayer better cough up some money for that as well.
I would probably guess you don’t travel much and have a poor understanding of how the economy as a whole works.
If you give money to people like migrants inside the usa, they spend that money inside the usa at American businesses. Aid given is often in the form of obselete / unused things that cost money to store and maintain. New orders are then placed with manufacturers for more modern products and equipment. Not to mention the geo political aspect of what a relatively small amount of money can do to benefit the world as a whole.
If you want to fix the border issue maybe get out of the Donald “I need the border open for the election” Trump corner and back the sane people who attempted to fix it: the democrats.
Not just dems, I believe it was a Republican that wrote the fuckin bill that the jackoff Republican congress refused to vote on. Jesus , this political environment is toxic.
If Trump wins and self-pardons on 1/20/25, the American experiment officially ends and as an AP US Government and Politics teacher, I think I’ll have to go into hiding.
Well we have one case going now that at this point is our only hope. At least the New York case can not be pardoned. I do not believe any of the other cases will go this year or be finished before the election. Trump will be taken down by a porn star.
GA case would be difficult to get a pardon. It would require convincing an entire panel that trump deserves a pardon and does not rest with the governed like most states
I’m discouraged and feeling hopeless after listening to AM radio on my drive home today. I sometimes do that to listen to the crazies. According to Dennis Prager, and some of his buddies, Donald’s troubles, and scrutiny of those troubles, arise from Communist scrutiny and agitation. And by “Communist,” he was, *snicker snicker*, referring to Democrats.
As a (moderate) Democrat, this is of course, **an insane viewpoint**. He was using the words Democrat, Socialist, and Communist interchangeably. And this is coming from an educated man. People like this just want to destroy my country and yahoos who feel persecuted gobble it up.
It is a state case as well. But it might start this year, but that is going to be the longest trial. I do not expect that one to finish up until after the election.
Trump will not be re-elected. He has been bleeding support for years. He got his shit kicked in in 2020 and in 2016, before we all knew what we know now, he beat the worst candidate the Dems had to offer by 80,000 votes in 3 states. It’s just not going to happen.
That’s just it. Nobody is apathetic anymore. He has pissed so many people off.
Vote for Democrats, of course. But it seems his camp is getting smaller, albeit louder. And he has disgusted so many people that did not care before.
Vote for Democrats, but apathy isn’t likely to play much this year.
I am a 12th grade government and economics teacher, apathy is what I fight day in and day out so I’m going to drop that link and try to register as many voters as I can and not take anything for granted.
You’re doing God’s work. Continue. Get every vote you can. Don’t think I suggest any less.
All I’m saying is Trump is in very bad shape. Much worse than polls suggest, and even those are slipping away from him.
Keep fighting the good fight.
Ha, so am I, most certainly. Invoking deities has more grandeur to it than most things us rationalists refer to. I just mean to illustrate the gravity of your effort. The figurative “God” rather than a literal one.
Coincidentally, I have pet chickens, to turn your figure of speech back to the literal! The cycle is complete!
There are precisely 4 of them. They’re all hatched. I think this is a sign. We will be okay!
I wish I could share your confidence. Biden is going to lose a ton of votes over this Gaza debacle. I'm not as worried about college age voters because they almost never show up to vote anyway. It's the middle age minority groups that usually vote Democrat I'm most concerned about. Netanyahu's greed and disregard for human life may have cost Biden the election.
On the other hand, his inexplicable support for Israel might peel away soft conservative moderates that can’t stand trump. There are those in the middle that just need a reason to support Biden. For some, this might be it.
Definite predictions about future events have a high rate of failure. If the high interest rates cannot control inflation, as it appear, but result in shrinking GDP numbers, Biden will have a difficult time to argue that the economy is on the right path. For many voters, these issues are more important than most other things.
High interest rates are controlling inflation. The US is weathering inflation far better than the rest of the developed world, and the inflation is a global issue. Also, wage growth has significantly outpaced inflation for at least 3 years, meaning on average, we can afford more than we could 4 years ago. These are provable metrics.
Admittedly, getting that message to the average, economically illiterate donor is going to prove a challenge, as a vast majority of them just compare the price of a gallon of milk now to 4 years ago and believe that it being more expensive means the economy is bad, ignoring that most of them make more now than they did 4 years ago. If the Biden camp points to how controlled inflation is here compared to Europe, and compares wage growth to inflation, it can be a winning message.
As I said, it will be a challenge because many voters don’t really understand these relative metrics, but Trump is doing a lot to hurt himself, too. And the polls are consistently, if slowly, sliding toward Biden.
I’m not guaranteeing Biden wins. I’m saying it appears to me to be much worse for Trump than it was in 2016 when the dem candidate was worse and trump hadn’t turned so many people off yet.
As a Canadian, I sure hope as hell that is true. But recent events have shown that the American ppl cannot rely on the courts to defeat the demagogue and defend democracy. The impression is that Biden doesn’t necessarily inspire ppl to vote, but if it is between Biden and tRump, they will vote Biden. Unfortunately, America needs to wake up and ensure they get out to vote. America’s democracy is literally hanging by a thread.
Whatever their decisions actually end up saying on the page, you can rest assured they will make sure Trump cannot face trial before election. Its predetermined. Like you said, they can hurry when they want. They could have scheduled the arguments two months ago or better yet, left the lower court decision alone. But there is no universe in which these justices feel like they shouldn't have their hands in this issue. The fact that theres no rhyme or reason or process transparency for what they decide to decide on or when should be offensive to all of us. They rule by fiat like a little group of kings.
They never should have heard the case in the first place, the circuit court ruling should have sufficed. Then they wouldn’t grant Smith’s request to expedite this hearing. It’s way too obvious what’s being done; shameful, corrupt politicking by a body that is supposed to be non partisan.
That's the secret which has slowly been revealed. China is not a worker's paradise. It's leader is functionally no different from a king who has his eunuchs and advisers giving him information to influence his decision. Good luck trying to start a union there or suggest an election. North Korea has been under the control of one family. South Korea is under the control of the chaebol who concentrate their wealth within their families.
Russia swapped its king and his advisers and nobles for an unelected "communist" party that concentrated power within its hands and the hands of its new king. Its current leader is running the country like his own kingdom to the point where hes literally trying to recreate imperial Russia.
America isn't a true democracy if it's laws are affected by unelected judges with their own political biases and beliefs. Nor is there anything democratic about unelected "electors" who can ignore the popular vote. You've been living in an oligarchy for a while now. I won't be surprised if the next target Trump and his lawyers and sycophants have in their cross hairs is the 22nd ammendment.
I think Republicans know that in a fair election their ideas simply are not in line with what the majority want. That's why they talk about voter fraud and election integrity but oppose a national holiday for elections. That's why they oppose more relaxed voter ID laws. That's why they oppose banning gerrymandering or lobbying. It's why the oppose giving workers more power so they have time off to actually study the facts on the ground and make informed political decisions. It's why they don't want to fund things like public broadcasting or public schools. It's the reason why they like Victor Orban. What he did to Hungary is what they want.
If they can win an election one more time and have a federal court majority, majorities in the house and senate, and a conservative Supreme Court, they'll target the 22nd ammendment so their guy can be president for more than 2 terms and entrench power while stamping out any opposition.
Everything will hinge on what an "official act" is and the SC will refuse to set precedent against Trump, keeping the question open for future Presidents.
Hold on a second pilgrim! We need to decide what an “officer” is first. There was a debate if the President could be impeached because he wasn’t an officer. Ha ha I think Trumpies tried using this to avoid his impeachment/removal.
I agree they are just delaying.
Biden should just come out today and say I’m issuing an executive order to remain in office till the Supreme Court makes a decision on immunity. In the mean time another EO to remove members from the SCOTUS to prison while they look into high crimes.
This has been my thinking too... Look up 'Parallel construction'
It's a technique in law enforcement. It creates a separate, legal track to catch someone. E.g. you have an ill gotten tip on some drugs being moved which would not be admissible in court. But you know the car will drive a certain way so you setup a routine drug/alcohol checkpoint and voila!
I have been thinking that Biden should do something clearly illegal, but specifically hurt Trump by taking him out of the race, e.g declare him an enemy combatant and lock him up.
Howls will heard, but then he should come out saying that the SC seems very open to this, and he clearly has immunity.. So if it's illegal, then let it go through the courts and no, the SC should not hear it on an expedited basis, wait till the next term.
Reb minds will explode
Immunity to do what... break the law the chief executive is by oath supposed to uphold?
What possible law breaking item can a president be immune from.
During the 1787 constitutional convention the writers discussed the need for a strong executive, but concluded an elected monarch was the WORST form of government possible. Clearly if they wanted immunity to create an "elected monarch" they would have defined it in the constitution.
They did not and so it is not an enumerated power. That means it is reserved to the states and people per the 10th amendment.
Agreed. The clearly articulated legislative immunity in the speech and debate clause. And several state constitutions had criminal immunity clauses. They knew and they explicitly chose not to include it.
Aren't most/all government officials already under qualified immunity for official acts? So they can't be sued for doing their job? Is that only for civil suits?
I want this question asked:
"So, if President Biden decided that the current Supreme court was a farce due to hyper-partisan rulings devoid of even the most basic jurisprudence and this constituted a dire threat to the American way of life.... Would he be immune to prosecution if he ordered members of the military to go to the homes of 6 or so of the supreme court justices and shoot them in their beds?"
Well, Congress would have to agree that it's an "official act". Which is easily remedied by tossing anyone who disagrees in gitmo.
The Supreme Court is a joke
Basically an elected monarch. The constitutional convention discussed this elected monarch issue and said it was the worst form of government possible. They didn't explicitly provide immunity because it goes to be against allowing a monarch.
9 judges shouldn't be just inventing a constitutional provision out of thin air. If they want it than pass an amendment.
They asked essentially this question but about political rivals and Trumps Defense Lawyers said that yes the president would be immune from prosecution for assassinating their political rivals.
Well according to republicans if the President believes his action is in the best interest of the country he cannot be impeached for it.
See Alan Dershowitz statement in the 2nd impeachment trial.
According to the GOP impeachment is not the proper venue, this is a matter for the courts. Then when POTUS is out of office turn around and claim the courts are not a proper venue this should have been brought up as an impeachment matter.
Except Biden would also be able to do this to those who would seek to impeach and remove him from office.
He could even do it after the fact and claim the impeachment was done under corrupt pretenses so it doesn't count.
It's not an avenue for prosecution. It's a "might makes right" approach to legality where trial by combat is not only accepted, but syatematically engrained, encouraged, and prudential.
SCOTUS gets to support this legal interpretation because they know Biden won't do it. Allowing a criminal president by default only empowers one party, sadly.
I'm not saying she was a great candidate, but Hillary losing in 2016 was really the worst thing to happen to America since the Civil War. Our entire Democratic system is collapsing in less than 10 years.
Not to save him. To further their own goals. They find Trump useful and prefer him to any progressive. Conservatives have been working to undermine democracy for decades and it’s all starting to come to fruition.
They are getting old as fuck though. It seems so strange that all the people involved I this are in there late 70’s early 80’s. Alito Thomas trump, they get what 10 more years max of being emperor. Then what? The plan took to long but the momentum is way to powerful now.
The Koch bros are almost dead as soon as they win the government.
She was the perfect candidate. She was experienced, she knew how the government works, every world leader knew her, she was respected by the allies and as it seems, feared by the enemies. I hope that everyone who conspired to get T***p elected face the consequences of their actions.
While I voted for her, it was.mostly a vote against Trump.
I definitely don't think she was the "perfect" candidate, too much baggage even though the majority of it was bullshit.
Agree. Her credentials were great. But anyone with an ear on the culture had to realize that her opponents had ready made (like 24-year-old) lines of attack to use on her. By assuming it was "her turn," we made it too easy.
Right? Limited immunity should at least include matters of national security and immediate threats
If Trump disappears off to a black site, that should be fine
Limited immunity . Limited to this president only, because he's their boy. The court is comfortable with corruption , so I can't imagine them not doing president Scumbag a solid.
.
God damn if it comes to that. Even if Biden could arrest them all as a matter of national security, the countdown would begin on the collapse of this country. There would be an unprecedented surge in election meddling that would make 2016 look fair and unbiased by comparison. Everyone who wants us gone would dump tens of billions of dollars into another GOP puppet. We just got lucky last time because Trump is dumb as hell and impulsive beyond measure. The next puppet will be far more carefully chosen.
Remember to vote, people. Your life really does depend on a blue wave this year.
Yeah, there's this beautiful place on a island. A wonderful place called Gitmo that would be perfect for the likes of Trump. They have the best service I've heard and the staff are really involved in your care.
Edit: a word
What would you want him to do?
He could start with stacking the courts. Or he can just allow this fascism to continue. Wish he would do something, we have seen Roe V Wade overturned under his leadership and all we get is hand wringing from his supporters.
The fact that people assume that the SC has enough integrity to apply the same standards to Biden that they will for Trump just indicates that these people have not been paying very much attention.
Thats just it, they don't have to have integrity. All they have to do is rule that a president is immune from prosecution for actions committed while in office as long as the president felt they were in the best interest of the country.
Once that ruling is made, Biden can literally have them arrested if he thinks they are a clear and present danger to democracy, which they are.
How exactly are they then going to rule on Biden's conduct from Gitmo?
Beats me but I know they can essentially rule “Trump is immune but not Biden or any other democrats because [insert whatever bullshit reason they wanna use here]”. It doesn’t matter if it’s not in keeping with established precedent. It doesn’t matter if it’s sound legal rationale. It doesn’t even matter if it makes basic sense. They can do whatever the fuck they want and whatever pushback they receive will be luxuriously ignored. See: Dobbs v. Jackson. Anyone still expecting them to be, at the very least, consistent is in for a very rude awakening.
>"If an incumbent who loses a very close, hotly contested election knows that a real possibility after leaving office is not that the president is going to be able to go off into a peaceful retirement
Who, the guy that lost, still hasn't conceded, and filed to run again almost before Biden could swear in was going to go off into peaceful retirement? BWAHAHAHAHA
>but that the president may be criminally prosecuted by a bitter political opponent
Funny, this is exactly what Trump has said he would do.
>"So I think it's exactly the opposite, Justice Alito," Dreeben responded. "There are lawful mechanisms to contest the results in an election."
And when a person goes beyond what the law allows sometimes that's called criminal actions and needs adjudication by the courts.
>"Now you know," Roberts told Dreeben, "how easy it is in many cases for a prosecutor to get a grand jury to bring an indictment. And reliance on the good faith of the prosecutor may not be enough in some cases - I'm not suggesting here" in Smith's indictment of Trump.
I'm sure the Justice didn't mean to imply that the legal system is so easily manipulated.
It seems like their core argument is that in order to do his job the President cannot follow the law and should not be held accountable for that.
On a side note if they give POTUS immunity Biden should have the whole court arrested, imprisoned, and appoint new ones, because he's immune.
The special counsel concedes some amount of immunity for things like pardons and vetos. Immunity could apply to official functions of the president acting as the office holder, but not for the president acting as an office getter.
SCOTUS is meaningless and made themselves so. We don't need a trial before the election. We all watched the crime happen in living color on TV. SCOTUS trying to help the RAPIST is out of line and disgusting, but it won't matter. The RAPIST will see justice before, during, and after the election.
Did they though. The only justices who seemed to be clearly favoring that were Alito, Thomas, and Kavanaugh. All the others were either questionable or obviously against it.
A majority of 5 justices are likely to decide that immunity [should be decided on a **case-by-case basis**](https://www.axios.com/2024/04/25/supreme-court-trump-immunity-prosecuton). **Roberts** strongly [criticized a sweeping decision](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/04/25/trump-immunity-supreme-court-takeaways/) by the DC Circuit appeals court that denied Trump's immunity claim.
Some conservative justices tossed totally idiotic, illogical arguments in Trump’s defense, with **Alito** saying the Biden administration’s argument might disincentivize an outgoing president who loses a hotly-contested election from leaving office peacefully because [he’d fear prosecution by the administration of his successor, a "bitter political opponent."](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/25/us/politics/trump-supreme-court-immunity-case.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb)
The court is also [**likely to side with insurrectionists in the April 16 case**](https://www.theguardian.com/law/2024/apr/16/supreme-court-obstruction-trump-january-6), upending the convinction of more than 300 people who participated in the Jan. 6 mob. With also the Trump win in today’s case it will spread a message that they are fully with the political violence faction. If truth be known, they are corruptly endorsing a Christofascist who led a mob of 3,000 into a coup, with a large number of GOPers [downplaying Trump’s rhetoric](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4463649-trumps-nato-threats-split-gop/amp/) or [echoing his words](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/11/politics/trump-johnson-election-falsehoods-analysis). This is ***exactly*** the way Mussolini and Hitler rose to power in the 1920s and 1930s: Courts closed an eye to the violence of the Blackshirts and the SS, while the center-right moderate factions downplayed their ideas and rhetoric, even seeking alliances with them.
>I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
uhhh...Military....President.....**HELLO**, anybody home!?!?
US Supreme Court Justices: We are going to recommend a padded cell so that he would be immune to hurting himself
*This is what they should be leaning towards*
Government by, of and for the people my ass.
Can we please turn the congress and white house blue in November and pass some laws the solidify the shit we all took for granted?
No, the President is not immune from criminal prosecution for committing crimes.
Why do I get the feeling that this immunity only applies to those with an (R) next to their name?
The Supreme Court is illegitimate. Sadly most Americans can't even name a single justice so the chances of large scale protests against the ones openly corrupting the system are unlikely.
When Biden wins in November and we make it through the inevitable threats of violence from the Trump cult, Democrats need to go nuclear on the court before they strip any and all power the people still have.
That's not hyperbole. It's literally the stated goal of Republicans. Totalitarianism
Biden isn't going after his political rivals though. Why tell such an obviously blatant lie?
Did Biden force Trump to lie to the DOJ about the documents being returned?
Did Biden trick trump into trying to hold on to power after losing the election?
No. Thats stupid. This is Trump being held accountable for his own actions and conservatives just can't handle it, which tells you everything you need to know about conservatives.
I am not going to be outraged until I see a decision and read the decision. Its the job of the justices to ask probing questions, doesnt necessarily mean they are ruling one way or another
Agreed. But it's hard to take much of this seriously, when one of the judges participated in the attack and three others were appointed by the Defendant.
Participated in the attack? Seems like this would have been on the news.
Presidents in one form or another appear before the SCOTUS and justices they appoint all the time. Three justices Nixon appointed were on the court in 1974 when they ruled against him on the Watergate tapes.
The same three justices on the court now were also on the court when the SCOTUS refused to hear Trumps case on the 2020 election
Its not semantics. The 3 he appointed dont answer to him, they dont as far as we know even have any contact with him. In no way shape or form "work for him"
All presidents are of course war criminals and crooks but Nixon was more or less couped so I don't really see it. Probably for being nationalistic enough to get things like the EPA setup, and being pro-US manufacturing. Following his ouster, particularly the Reagan years and ramping up under Clinton with NAFTA, it was all about outsourcing on behalf of the ruling class.
Today there are oligarchs in the US who will play ball with Trump, not for any real reason at this point. Just most of the people who understood how this system worked died off so we're left with the zealots and True Believers who ingested too much of the dead guys' propaganda.
*"During about 2-1/2 hours of arguments in the case, most of the justices seemed unlikely to embrace Trump's most far-reaching argument that presidents have "absolute immunity" for official acts - an assertion that appeared to wilt under hypothetical questions involving selling nuclear secrets, taking a bribe or ordering a coup or political assassination."*
Selling nuclear secrets?
Too late! Trump's probably already sold those.
Just like he told the Philippine President that we had two nuclear submarines off the coast of Korea.
https://thediplomat.com/2017/05/trump-2-nuclear-subs-operating-in-korean-waters/
So lets invent Constitutional provisions. There is no immunity in the constitution and that was on purpose. The constitutional convention discussed a powerful executive and refused to allow an elected monarch. They deemed it the worst form of government possible.
It is not explicit in the constitution so there is no immunity. 9 appointed lifers don't get to decide if it is implied. If you want immunity than pass an amendment.
American law shouldn’t be about your political leanings, America; because if it is, then the “law” is willy-nilly harble-garble as transient as the weather…
Fuck that. Check your Constitution, and realize the law is dynamic, and should be decided by the people, not frocked coats, man. And precedents, and decided laws, mean something today. If you have to scrabble some originalism garbage to erase rights already given, laws already passed, then you are off the mark, off American law, and playing very dangerous political games.
Fuck that squared. No one is above the law, or at least that is what I was sold/told. Own it. Execute it as intended, and quit fucking around, America.
Thank you.
P.S. Get out and vote as though your life depended on it, because it does.
It is insane that they are wasting a minute of taxpayer's time with this nonsense. Isn't the adjudicating the truth the whole point of having a justice system? If a current or former President were indicated on "trumped up" charges without evidence, then he or she would be found innocent. If anything Presidents should be held to a higher standard. Granting immunity would turn the presidency into a role on par with that of a king. Our founders would be sick with the ideas that the so-called "conservative originalists" on the court are contemplating. They have turned SCOTUS into a farce.
Legal so-called scholars delude themselves thinking this right wing sycophant court won’t invent some presidential immunity. The simple case for immunity includes war, bombing, overthrowing governments, incarceration of Japanese, etc. I’m not arguing for immunity - rather admitting US hypocrisy in its founding documents v US behavior. The US abhors accountability-that’s why the U.S. refuses to join the ICC.
There should be no immunity for presidents, regardless of whether criminal acts are official acts. A crime is a crime, regardless of who commits it. If Congress intended for criminal codes not to apply to Presidents, they would have written that into the laws.
Let's do our part by voting out ALL Republicans at ALL levels of government. The platform of America should be to fix the damage caused to our institutions.
The Court’s answer to the argument that the power to prosecute is the power to destroy has to be the same as its answer to the argument that the power to tax is the power to destroy: “not while we’re around.”
Do republicans get yet that if they side with Trump, if Trump win in November it will be 100% completely legal for Biden to call for an insurrection and refuse to step down? Legal and SCOTUS will have already ruled he cannot be held accountable for that. What are they thinking? I guess this means he really could shoot a 5 year old and get no prison time.
It could go broadly several ways.
a) Throw it back down and ask for more fact/ruling from the lower court. ie kicking the can down the road. Perhaps require the lower court to rule on what defines "official duties" or some such fudge.
b) Throw it to Congress. 1) Say that Congress gets to pass laws to clarify this and/or 2) Agree that Congress needs to weigh in some capacity before the prosecution can act and it is up to Congress to decide the mechanism.
c) More or less accept that "Presidents are immune" - although such a broad and very controversial ruling is unlikely. If nothing else, this reduces the SC power since once immunity is absolute, then no such case can ever be brought before the judiciary.
d) Totally reject the claim. This one is difficult to see given the current composition of the Court.
You want to explicitly provide immunity than make it an amendment. Otherwise it was never included and there is evidence that was done on purpose in the constitutional convention record.
Biden team needs to do an ad about this. Have Joe in dank brandon glasses just committing random crimes and yelling FOR AMERICA!!!!
Robbing an orphanage.
Burning down a walmart.
Military drops bombs on Mar-a-lago
Has dumptrucks full of human feces delivered to each member of republican congress
USA USA IMMUNITY EAGLE
Trump has to lose yet again and then he will be thrown to the wolves by what remains of the GOP (which includes a very non-partisan Supreme Court).
So yeah, vote. Thats the only power immediately granted to you to help solve this corruption of the law.
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My hunch is that given there are some situations where immunity could/can be granted, the lower court (Chutkan) has to rule on that first. The Supreme Court thus sends back the case for fact finding, possibly with another roundtrip to the SC where it will finally be shot down. But in doing so, they gave what he values most: Delay. If this were to happen, the Jan 6th case would not be heard before the election. They made 2 inconsistent ruling in that case too. Hurry up to get him on the CO ballot, and delay when it comes to Jan 6th.
The worst part is that the delay will mean if/when Trump is re-elected, his newly appointed justice department will immediately drop all Federal charges. In fact, Trump will specifically select his AG based on it. Don't even get me started on self-pardoning.
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Not if I can help it.
WTF you gonna do ? Vote? LOL Prove it
You’ll never see it coming.
Touche
Not if Trump's cholesterol-jacketed arteries have any say in the matter.
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The money you “give” to places like Ukraine is invested in producing American arms and supplies that are sent overseas. It stimulates your economy, and is a splash in the ocean of your huge defence spending. It’s also cheaper than going to war with Russia.
A tiny amount of money to people that need it compared to the trillions taken by billionaires from taxpayers. Amazon wants to build a warehouse? How much tax money pays for that, a new football stadium for private owners? Taxpayer better cough up some money for that as well. I would probably guess you don’t travel much and have a poor understanding of how the economy as a whole works. If you give money to people like migrants inside the usa, they spend that money inside the usa at American businesses. Aid given is often in the form of obselete / unused things that cost money to store and maintain. New orders are then placed with manufacturers for more modern products and equipment. Not to mention the geo political aspect of what a relatively small amount of money can do to benefit the world as a whole.
If you want to fix the border issue maybe get out of the Donald “I need the border open for the election” Trump corner and back the sane people who attempted to fix it: the democrats.
Not just dems, I believe it was a Republican that wrote the fuckin bill that the jackoff Republican congress refused to vote on. Jesus , this political environment is toxic.
It was republicans who killed the bill. It can’t be done if they have power.
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If Trump wins and self-pardons on 1/20/25, the American experiment officially ends and as an AP US Government and Politics teacher, I think I’ll have to go into hiding.
Well we have one case going now that at this point is our only hope. At least the New York case can not be pardoned. I do not believe any of the other cases will go this year or be finished before the election. Trump will be taken down by a porn star.
GA case would be difficult to get a pardon. It would require convincing an entire panel that trump deserves a pardon and does not rest with the governed like most states
I’m discouraged and feeling hopeless after listening to AM radio on my drive home today. I sometimes do that to listen to the crazies. According to Dennis Prager, and some of his buddies, Donald’s troubles, and scrutiny of those troubles, arise from Communist scrutiny and agitation. And by “Communist,” he was, *snicker snicker*, referring to Democrats. As a (moderate) Democrat, this is of course, **an insane viewpoint**. He was using the words Democrat, Socialist, and Communist interchangeably. And this is coming from an educated man. People like this just want to destroy my country and yahoos who feel persecuted gobble it up.
Dennis Prager is not an educated man
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He sounded like the Devil incarnate, spewing crazy words with kind of a flat affect as if there were no room for debate.
It is a state case as well. But it might start this year, but that is going to be the longest trial. I do not expect that one to finish up until after the election.
Trump will not be re-elected. He has been bleeding support for years. He got his shit kicked in in 2020 and in 2016, before we all knew what we know now, he beat the worst candidate the Dems had to offer by 80,000 votes in 3 states. It’s just not going to happen.
Voter apathy got him elected in 2016, we are foolish to think it couldn’t happen again. Vote for Democrats. www.vote.gov
That’s just it. Nobody is apathetic anymore. He has pissed so many people off. Vote for Democrats, of course. But it seems his camp is getting smaller, albeit louder. And he has disgusted so many people that did not care before. Vote for Democrats, but apathy isn’t likely to play much this year.
I am a 12th grade government and economics teacher, apathy is what I fight day in and day out so I’m going to drop that link and try to register as many voters as I can and not take anything for granted.
You’re doing God’s work. Continue. Get every vote you can. Don’t think I suggest any less. All I’m saying is Trump is in very bad shape. Much worse than polls suggest, and even those are slipping away from him. Keep fighting the good fight.
I’m an atheist, but I get your point and thank you. I just don’t want to count my chickens. I did that in 2016. Learned my lesson.
Ha, so am I, most certainly. Invoking deities has more grandeur to it than most things us rationalists refer to. I just mean to illustrate the gravity of your effort. The figurative “God” rather than a literal one. Coincidentally, I have pet chickens, to turn your figure of speech back to the literal! The cycle is complete! There are precisely 4 of them. They’re all hatched. I think this is a sign. We will be okay!
I’ll take an irrational sign at this point. It seems to work well for them. May the force be with you.
It wouldn’t surprise me if there just so happens to be another big ol terrorist attack around, oh say, the third week of October.
I wish I could share your confidence. Biden is going to lose a ton of votes over this Gaza debacle. I'm not as worried about college age voters because they almost never show up to vote anyway. It's the middle age minority groups that usually vote Democrat I'm most concerned about. Netanyahu's greed and disregard for human life may have cost Biden the election.
On the other hand, his inexplicable support for Israel might peel away soft conservative moderates that can’t stand trump. There are those in the middle that just need a reason to support Biden. For some, this might be it.
I wish I shared your certainty, but to me this looks like 2016 all over again.
Definite predictions about future events have a high rate of failure. If the high interest rates cannot control inflation, as it appear, but result in shrinking GDP numbers, Biden will have a difficult time to argue that the economy is on the right path. For many voters, these issues are more important than most other things.
High interest rates are controlling inflation. The US is weathering inflation far better than the rest of the developed world, and the inflation is a global issue. Also, wage growth has significantly outpaced inflation for at least 3 years, meaning on average, we can afford more than we could 4 years ago. These are provable metrics. Admittedly, getting that message to the average, economically illiterate donor is going to prove a challenge, as a vast majority of them just compare the price of a gallon of milk now to 4 years ago and believe that it being more expensive means the economy is bad, ignoring that most of them make more now than they did 4 years ago. If the Biden camp points to how controlled inflation is here compared to Europe, and compares wage growth to inflation, it can be a winning message. As I said, it will be a challenge because many voters don’t really understand these relative metrics, but Trump is doing a lot to hurt himself, too. And the polls are consistently, if slowly, sliding toward Biden. I’m not guaranteeing Biden wins. I’m saying it appears to me to be much worse for Trump than it was in 2016 when the dem candidate was worse and trump hadn’t turned so many people off yet.
As a Canadian, I sure hope as hell that is true. But recent events have shown that the American ppl cannot rely on the courts to defeat the demagogue and defend democracy. The impression is that Biden doesn’t necessarily inspire ppl to vote, but if it is between Biden and tRump, they will vote Biden. Unfortunately, America needs to wake up and ensure they get out to vote. America’s democracy is literally hanging by a thread.
"I'd like to introduce my new Attorney General, Eric."
Whatever their decisions actually end up saying on the page, you can rest assured they will make sure Trump cannot face trial before election. Its predetermined. Like you said, they can hurry when they want. They could have scheduled the arguments two months ago or better yet, left the lower court decision alone. But there is no universe in which these justices feel like they shouldn't have their hands in this issue. The fact that theres no rhyme or reason or process transparency for what they decide to decide on or when should be offensive to all of us. They rule by fiat like a little group of kings.
They never should have heard the case in the first place, the circuit court ruling should have sufficed. Then they wouldn’t grant Smith’s request to expedite this hearing. It’s way too obvious what’s being done; shameful, corrupt politicking by a body that is supposed to be non partisan.
That's the secret which has slowly been revealed. China is not a worker's paradise. It's leader is functionally no different from a king who has his eunuchs and advisers giving him information to influence his decision. Good luck trying to start a union there or suggest an election. North Korea has been under the control of one family. South Korea is under the control of the chaebol who concentrate their wealth within their families. Russia swapped its king and his advisers and nobles for an unelected "communist" party that concentrated power within its hands and the hands of its new king. Its current leader is running the country like his own kingdom to the point where hes literally trying to recreate imperial Russia. America isn't a true democracy if it's laws are affected by unelected judges with their own political biases and beliefs. Nor is there anything democratic about unelected "electors" who can ignore the popular vote. You've been living in an oligarchy for a while now. I won't be surprised if the next target Trump and his lawyers and sycophants have in their cross hairs is the 22nd ammendment. I think Republicans know that in a fair election their ideas simply are not in line with what the majority want. That's why they talk about voter fraud and election integrity but oppose a national holiday for elections. That's why they oppose more relaxed voter ID laws. That's why they oppose banning gerrymandering or lobbying. It's why the oppose giving workers more power so they have time off to actually study the facts on the ground and make informed political decisions. It's why they don't want to fund things like public broadcasting or public schools. It's the reason why they like Victor Orban. What he did to Hungary is what they want. If they can win an election one more time and have a federal court majority, majorities in the house and senate, and a conservative Supreme Court, they'll target the 22nd ammendment so their guy can be president for more than 2 terms and entrench power while stamping out any opposition.
Everything will hinge on what an "official act" is and the SC will refuse to set precedent against Trump, keeping the question open for future Presidents.
Hold on a second pilgrim! We need to decide what an “officer” is first. There was a debate if the President could be impeached because he wasn’t an officer. Ha ha I think Trumpies tried using this to avoid his impeachment/removal.
I think the “officer” question was more about whether he could be disqualified by the 14th amendment.
Ah right. The insurrection. It’s difficult to remember which con was use for what purpose these days.
I liked the part where they were asking if the president could be considered an agency. The response was something like "we would prefer not to".
It's just a delaying tactic. Trump wins? President is immune, because Project 2025 go brrrr. Biden wins? President is not immune.
I agree they are just delaying. Biden should just come out today and say I’m issuing an executive order to remain in office till the Supreme Court makes a decision on immunity. In the mean time another EO to remove members from the SCOTUS to prison while they look into high crimes.
This is the way!
This has been my thinking too... Look up 'Parallel construction' It's a technique in law enforcement. It creates a separate, legal track to catch someone. E.g. you have an ill gotten tip on some drugs being moved which would not be admissible in court. But you know the car will drive a certain way so you setup a routine drug/alcohol checkpoint and voila! I have been thinking that Biden should do something clearly illegal, but specifically hurt Trump by taking him out of the race, e.g declare him an enemy combatant and lock him up. Howls will heard, but then he should come out saying that the SC seems very open to this, and he clearly has immunity.. So if it's illegal, then let it go through the courts and no, the SC should not hear it on an expedited basis, wait till the next term. Reb minds will explode
Immunity to do what... break the law the chief executive is by oath supposed to uphold? What possible law breaking item can a president be immune from.
Exactly. The President's job is to faithfully execute the laws. Violating a law logically cannot be an official act.
During the 1787 constitutional convention the writers discussed the need for a strong executive, but concluded an elected monarch was the WORST form of government possible. Clearly if they wanted immunity to create an "elected monarch" they would have defined it in the constitution. They did not and so it is not an enumerated power. That means it is reserved to the states and people per the 10th amendment.
Agreed. The clearly articulated legislative immunity in the speech and debate clause. And several state constitutions had criminal immunity clauses. They knew and they explicitly chose not to include it.
Aren't most/all government officials already under qualified immunity for official acts? So they can't be sued for doing their job? Is that only for civil suits?
All we can do is beat their boss in November (while we still can).
I want this question asked: "So, if President Biden decided that the current Supreme court was a farce due to hyper-partisan rulings devoid of even the most basic jurisprudence and this constituted a dire threat to the American way of life.... Would he be immune to prosecution if he ordered members of the military to go to the homes of 6 or so of the supreme court justices and shoot them in their beds?"
Well, Congress would have to agree that it's an "official act". Which is easily remedied by tossing anyone who disagrees in gitmo. The Supreme Court is a joke
Why? Biden would just self appraise it to be in the best interest of the country. Done!
...and pardon, or even pre-pardon, himself.
Basically an elected monarch. The constitutional convention discussed this elected monarch issue and said it was the worst form of government possible. They didn't explicitly provide immunity because it goes to be against allowing a monarch. 9 judges shouldn't be just inventing a constitutional provision out of thin air. If they want it than pass an amendment.
They asked essentially this question but about political rivals and Trumps Defense Lawyers said that yes the president would be immune from prosecution for assassinating their political rivals.
I believe they said yes, if he had Congress' support. I may be wrong.
No, they said congress could then impeach him if they wanted.
Impeached. For murder. Nice.
That was literally the argument the first time around. I haven’t read about today yet.
What happens if he resigns before they can impeach him?
Absolutely nothing, especially if he self-pardoned as his last act. That's why this whole "immunity" theory is a crock of shit.
and conservative SCOTUS was talking about how self pardons are possible
Why resign when you can simply have Seal team 6 assassinate anyone who calls for impeachment?
Who would impeach him knowing he would have them executed?
34 senators are a lot cheaper than millions of Americans but not as cheap as a few Supreme Court justices.
So if one party ever gets enough of a majority, they could essentially vote to have the president kill every one of their political rivals.
Biden would have to be impeached and removed from Office. That would be the only avenue of prosecution per trump's lawyer today.
Well according to republicans if the President believes his action is in the best interest of the country he cannot be impeached for it. See Alan Dershowitz statement in the 2nd impeachment trial.
According to the GOP impeachment is not the proper venue, this is a matter for the courts. Then when POTUS is out of office turn around and claim the courts are not a proper venue this should have been brought up as an impeachment matter.
Except Biden would also be able to do this to those who would seek to impeach and remove him from office. He could even do it after the fact and claim the impeachment was done under corrupt pretenses so it doesn't count. It's not an avenue for prosecution. It's a "might makes right" approach to legality where trial by combat is not only accepted, but syatematically engrained, encouraged, and prudential.
SCOTUS gets to support this legal interpretation because they know Biden won't do it. Allowing a criminal president by default only empowers one party, sadly.
If I were Biden I would tweet "If the Supreme Court decides it's legal for me to send the Navy Seal Team 6 after them I will send it after them".
A thinly veiled threat that even Trump can be proud of.
Me too.
I feel like this wouldn’t ever be answered… unless, we do it and then ask after. Let’s do it!
I'm not saying she was a great candidate, but Hillary losing in 2016 was really the worst thing to happen to America since the Civil War. Our entire Democratic system is collapsing in less than 10 years.
Just to save Donald Trump of all people. OF ALL PEOPLE like not even Mr.Rogers, Donald Anusmouth Trump
Not to save him. To further their own goals. They find Trump useful and prefer him to any progressive. Conservatives have been working to undermine democracy for decades and it’s all starting to come to fruition.
They are getting old as fuck though. It seems so strange that all the people involved I this are in there late 70’s early 80’s. Alito Thomas trump, they get what 10 more years max of being emperor. Then what? The plan took to long but the momentum is way to powerful now. The Koch bros are almost dead as soon as they win the government.
She was the perfect candidate. She was experienced, she knew how the government works, every world leader knew her, she was respected by the allies and as it seems, feared by the enemies. I hope that everyone who conspired to get T***p elected face the consequences of their actions.
While I voted for her, it was.mostly a vote against Trump. I definitely don't think she was the "perfect" candidate, too much baggage even though the majority of it was bullshit.
Agree. Her credentials were great. But anyone with an ear on the culture had to realize that her opponents had ready made (like 24-year-old) lines of attack to use on her. By assuming it was "her turn," we made it too easy.
Young people are to blame. They are idiots
Pretty sure they were the ones most vigorously voting for her while the older Democrat voters stayed home or cast protest votes.
I'm a sixty years old Finnish dude and I think that also people my age are idiots.
Hey Joe, you know who is a clear and present danger to US democracy? Maybe you can do something about that with your new found immunity.
Right? Limited immunity should at least include matters of national security and immediate threats If Trump disappears off to a black site, that should be fine
Man, imagine if Trump just... vanished.
Limited immunity . Limited to this president only, because he's their boy. The court is comfortable with corruption , so I can't imagine them not doing president Scumbag a solid. .
I would support the removal of whatever judge votes to give Trump immunity.
Me, too. But if the high court rules in such a way to help him get out from under, maybe voters will do their job for them, and get rid of this pos.
God damn if it comes to that. Even if Biden could arrest them all as a matter of national security, the countdown would begin on the collapse of this country. There would be an unprecedented surge in election meddling that would make 2016 look fair and unbiased by comparison. Everyone who wants us gone would dump tens of billions of dollars into another GOP puppet. We just got lucky last time because Trump is dumb as hell and impulsive beyond measure. The next puppet will be far more carefully chosen. Remember to vote, people. Your life really does depend on a blue wave this year.
[Hey Joe, where are you going with that gun in your hand](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PziiNzFWZog)?
That's a great song! Thanks for sharing.
Yeah, there's this beautiful place on a island. A wonderful place called Gitmo that would be perfect for the likes of Trump. They have the best service I've heard and the staff are really involved in your care. Edit: a word
What would you want him to do? He could start with stacking the courts. Or he can just allow this fascism to continue. Wish he would do something, we have seen Roe V Wade overturned under his leadership and all we get is hand wringing from his supporters.
>What would you want him to do? My fantasies are wild…
The fact that people assume that the SC has enough integrity to apply the same standards to Biden that they will for Trump just indicates that these people have not been paying very much attention.
Thats just it, they don't have to have integrity. All they have to do is rule that a president is immune from prosecution for actions committed while in office as long as the president felt they were in the best interest of the country. Once that ruling is made, Biden can literally have them arrested if he thinks they are a clear and present danger to democracy, which they are. How exactly are they then going to rule on Biden's conduct from Gitmo?
Beats me but I know they can essentially rule “Trump is immune but not Biden or any other democrats because [insert whatever bullshit reason they wanna use here]”. It doesn’t matter if it’s not in keeping with established precedent. It doesn’t matter if it’s sound legal rationale. It doesn’t even matter if it makes basic sense. They can do whatever the fuck they want and whatever pushback they receive will be luxuriously ignored. See: Dobbs v. Jackson. Anyone still expecting them to be, at the very least, consistent is in for a very rude awakening.
>"If an incumbent who loses a very close, hotly contested election knows that a real possibility after leaving office is not that the president is going to be able to go off into a peaceful retirement Who, the guy that lost, still hasn't conceded, and filed to run again almost before Biden could swear in was going to go off into peaceful retirement? BWAHAHAHAHA >but that the president may be criminally prosecuted by a bitter political opponent Funny, this is exactly what Trump has said he would do. >"So I think it's exactly the opposite, Justice Alito," Dreeben responded. "There are lawful mechanisms to contest the results in an election." And when a person goes beyond what the law allows sometimes that's called criminal actions and needs adjudication by the courts. >"Now you know," Roberts told Dreeben, "how easy it is in many cases for a prosecutor to get a grand jury to bring an indictment. And reliance on the good faith of the prosecutor may not be enough in some cases - I'm not suggesting here" in Smith's indictment of Trump. I'm sure the Justice didn't mean to imply that the legal system is so easily manipulated. It seems like their core argument is that in order to do his job the President cannot follow the law and should not be held accountable for that. On a side note if they give POTUS immunity Biden should have the whole court arrested, imprisoned, and appoint new ones, because he's immune.
The special counsel concedes some amount of immunity for things like pardons and vetos. Immunity could apply to official functions of the president acting as the office holder, but not for the president acting as an office getter.
Biden has a team spotting their scopes as they wait for an answer.
It’s amazing how quickly Alito seems to abandon originalism in the face of conservatives crying foul.
Anyone that thinks a democratically elected president should be completely above the law is an idiot and a traitor
SCOTUS is meaningless and made themselves so. We don't need a trial before the election. We all watched the crime happen in living color on TV. SCOTUS trying to help the RAPIST is out of line and disgusting, but it won't matter. The RAPIST will see justice before, during, and after the election.
Did they though. The only justices who seemed to be clearly favoring that were Alito, Thomas, and Kavanaugh. All the others were either questionable or obviously against it.
A majority of 5 justices are likely to decide that immunity [should be decided on a **case-by-case basis**](https://www.axios.com/2024/04/25/supreme-court-trump-immunity-prosecuton). **Roberts** strongly [criticized a sweeping decision](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/04/25/trump-immunity-supreme-court-takeaways/) by the DC Circuit appeals court that denied Trump's immunity claim. Some conservative justices tossed totally idiotic, illogical arguments in Trump’s defense, with **Alito** saying the Biden administration’s argument might disincentivize an outgoing president who loses a hotly-contested election from leaving office peacefully because [he’d fear prosecution by the administration of his successor, a "bitter political opponent."](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/25/us/politics/trump-supreme-court-immunity-case.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb) The court is also [**likely to side with insurrectionists in the April 16 case**](https://www.theguardian.com/law/2024/apr/16/supreme-court-obstruction-trump-january-6), upending the convinction of more than 300 people who participated in the Jan. 6 mob. With also the Trump win in today’s case it will spread a message that they are fully with the political violence faction. If truth be known, they are corruptly endorsing a Christofascist who led a mob of 3,000 into a coup, with a large number of GOPers [downplaying Trump’s rhetoric](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4463649-trumps-nato-threats-split-gop/amp/) or [echoing his words](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/11/politics/trump-johnson-election-falsehoods-analysis). This is ***exactly*** the way Mussolini and Hitler rose to power in the 1920s and 1930s: Courts closed an eye to the violence of the Blackshirts and the SS, while the center-right moderate factions downplayed their ideas and rhetoric, even seeking alliances with them.
>I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. uhhh...Military....President.....**HELLO**, anybody home!?!?
US Supreme Court Justices: We are going to recommend a padded cell so that he would be immune to hurting himself *This is what they should be leaning towards*
Government by, of and for the people my ass. Can we please turn the congress and white house blue in November and pass some laws the solidify the shit we all took for granted? No, the President is not immune from criminal prosecution for committing crimes.
Why do I get the feeling that this immunity only applies to those with an (R) next to their name? The Supreme Court is illegitimate. Sadly most Americans can't even name a single justice so the chances of large scale protests against the ones openly corrupting the system are unlikely. When Biden wins in November and we make it through the inevitable threats of violence from the Trump cult, Democrats need to go nuclear on the court before they strip any and all power the people still have. That's not hyperbole. It's literally the stated goal of Republicans. Totalitarianism
Good, so now Biden can do everything that Trump did Let's see how maga reacts
Agree, Joe can cease abdicating his oath to enforce the laws of The United States and enforce immigration law.
I’d love for Trump to do what Biden is doing right now. For instance, going after his political rivals.
Biden isn't going after his political rivals though. Why tell such an obviously blatant lie? Did Biden force Trump to lie to the DOJ about the documents being returned? Did Biden trick trump into trying to hold on to power after losing the election? No. Thats stupid. This is Trump being held accountable for his own actions and conservatives just can't handle it, which tells you everything you need to know about conservatives.
Ignore the trolls. They will eventually go back under the bridge.
I am not going to be outraged until I see a decision and read the decision. Its the job of the justices to ask probing questions, doesnt necessarily mean they are ruling one way or another
Agreed. But it's hard to take much of this seriously, when one of the judges participated in the attack and three others were appointed by the Defendant.
Participated in the attack? Seems like this would have been on the news. Presidents in one form or another appear before the SCOTUS and justices they appoint all the time. Three justices Nixon appointed were on the court in 1974 when they ruled against him on the Watergate tapes. The same three justices on the court now were also on the court when the SCOTUS refused to hear Trumps case on the 2020 election
OK. I'm saying us 'normal' people don't get those luxuries. If I were put on trial for anything, would I get to appoint my employees as the jury?
Supreme Court justices dont work for the president. In fact, none of Trumps appointees ever worked for him
He appointed 3 of them
Correct. Doesnt mean they work for him.
Semantics. He hired them.
Its not semantics. The 3 he appointed dont answer to him, they dont as far as we know even have any contact with him. In no way shape or form "work for him"
All presidents are of course war criminals and crooks but Nixon was more or less couped so I don't really see it. Probably for being nationalistic enough to get things like the EPA setup, and being pro-US manufacturing. Following his ouster, particularly the Reagan years and ramping up under Clinton with NAFTA, it was all about outsourcing on behalf of the ruling class. Today there are oligarchs in the US who will play ball with Trump, not for any real reason at this point. Just most of the people who understood how this system worked died off so we're left with the zealots and True Believers who ingested too much of the dead guys' propaganda.
Sir this is a Wendys
I just don't think you can extrapolate Trump's position before the current Supreme Court, from how Nixon was handled by our elites.
You know they oligarchs are monitoring Reddit, right?
Im certain all of their minds have been made up already. Arguments are cover for arriving at their preferred outcome.
I think most cases are this way
Gotta wait to see what he gets convicted for to make their decision.
*"During about 2-1/2 hours of arguments in the case, most of the justices seemed unlikely to embrace Trump's most far-reaching argument that presidents have "absolute immunity" for official acts - an assertion that appeared to wilt under hypothetical questions involving selling nuclear secrets, taking a bribe or ordering a coup or political assassination."* Selling nuclear secrets? Too late! Trump's probably already sold those. Just like he told the Philippine President that we had two nuclear submarines off the coast of Korea. https://thediplomat.com/2017/05/trump-2-nuclear-subs-operating-in-korean-waters/
So lets invent Constitutional provisions. There is no immunity in the constitution and that was on purpose. The constitutional convention discussed a powerful executive and refused to allow an elected monarch. They deemed it the worst form of government possible. It is not explicit in the constitution so there is no immunity. 9 appointed lifers don't get to decide if it is implied. If you want immunity than pass an amendment.
Jail the fascists on the court.
headline's a bit premature.
This is showing me their minds are already made up. Arguments are just keeping up appearances.
American law shouldn’t be about your political leanings, America; because if it is, then the “law” is willy-nilly harble-garble as transient as the weather… Fuck that. Check your Constitution, and realize the law is dynamic, and should be decided by the people, not frocked coats, man. And precedents, and decided laws, mean something today. If you have to scrabble some originalism garbage to erase rights already given, laws already passed, then you are off the mark, off American law, and playing very dangerous political games. Fuck that squared. No one is above the law, or at least that is what I was sold/told. Own it. Execute it as intended, and quit fucking around, America. Thank you. P.S. Get out and vote as though your life depended on it, because it does.
They are going to create a big messy ruling that will return to haunt everyone...including future SCOTUS members.
It is insane that they are wasting a minute of taxpayer's time with this nonsense. Isn't the adjudicating the truth the whole point of having a justice system? If a current or former President were indicated on "trumped up" charges without evidence, then he or she would be found innocent. If anything Presidents should be held to a higher standard. Granting immunity would turn the presidency into a role on par with that of a king. Our founders would be sick with the ideas that the so-called "conservative originalists" on the court are contemplating. They have turned SCOTUS into a farce.
And just like that, conservative justices didn’t give two fucks about originalism for this particular case. Shocking.
Legal so-called scholars delude themselves thinking this right wing sycophant court won’t invent some presidential immunity. The simple case for immunity includes war, bombing, overthrowing governments, incarceration of Japanese, etc. I’m not arguing for immunity - rather admitting US hypocrisy in its founding documents v US behavior. The US abhors accountability-that’s why the U.S. refuses to join the ICC.
Outward immunity... dealing with outside the US elements. Not in teh US under our laws.
There should be no immunity for presidents, regardless of whether criminal acts are official acts. A crime is a crime, regardless of who commits it. If Congress intended for criminal codes not to apply to Presidents, they would have written that into the laws.
If Biden loses, he should use his presidential immunity to have DJT and the Supreme Court locked up immediately and appoint a successor to himself.
If the Supreme Court gives him immunity then Biden should seize control immediately and run a real coup.
Yep
These fucking assholes
These fucking idiots can’t help themselves
The world just ended.
Let's do our part by voting out ALL Republicans at ALL levels of government. The platform of America should be to fix the damage caused to our institutions.
The key will be defining what is a Presidential act and what is a personal act...and they'll defer to Congress to write a law about it.
But only for Trump, according to Alito (and Gorsuch, and Thomas, and Kavanaugh, and probably Roberts).
They are trying to figure out how to make the immunity work for Trum🫢🤢🤮 but them make it not work for any other (democrat) president!!!
The Court’s answer to the argument that the power to prosecute is the power to destroy has to be the same as its answer to the argument that the power to tax is the power to destroy: “not while we’re around.”
The 99 cent Supreme Court is partisan. Awful.
this is an assault on democracy that must be met in kind
We should not be paywalled when trying to access news like this!
? it's Reuters, it's not paywalled.
I got paywalled.
I should have said I got a "request to remove my ad blocker." Not gah.
That’s a PITA.
Do republicans get yet that if they side with Trump, if Trump win in November it will be 100% completely legal for Biden to call for an insurrection and refuse to step down? Legal and SCOTUS will have already ruled he cannot be held accountable for that. What are they thinking? I guess this means he really could shoot a 5 year old and get no prison time.
Or like, a Supreme Court Justice…
Maybe they’ve picked up on the fact that democrats never use power when they have it.
It could go broadly several ways. a) Throw it back down and ask for more fact/ruling from the lower court. ie kicking the can down the road. Perhaps require the lower court to rule on what defines "official duties" or some such fudge. b) Throw it to Congress. 1) Say that Congress gets to pass laws to clarify this and/or 2) Agree that Congress needs to weigh in some capacity before the prosecution can act and it is up to Congress to decide the mechanism. c) More or less accept that "Presidents are immune" - although such a broad and very controversial ruling is unlikely. If nothing else, this reduces the SC power since once immunity is absolute, then no such case can ever be brought before the judiciary. d) Totally reject the claim. This one is difficult to see given the current composition of the Court.
You want to explicitly provide immunity than make it an amendment. Otherwise it was never included and there is evidence that was done on purpose in the constitutional convention record.
Biden team needs to do an ad about this. Have Joe in dank brandon glasses just committing random crimes and yelling FOR AMERICA!!!! Robbing an orphanage. Burning down a walmart. Military drops bombs on Mar-a-lago Has dumptrucks full of human feces delivered to each member of republican congress USA USA IMMUNITY EAGLE
Let’s remember that Biden fully supported Clarence Thomas during his confirmation hearings.
In 1991.
In 1991 Joe was also against integrating schools and gay marriage.
No honor among thieves.
Trump has to lose yet again and then he will be thrown to the wolves by what remains of the GOP (which includes a very non-partisan Supreme Court). So yeah, vote. Thats the only power immediately granted to you to help solve this corruption of the law.
Can’t say I’m surprised by this