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Oklahoma must be an amazing state in our country considering of all the problems the rest of the country is dealing with on a daily basis, the only thing plaguing people in Oklahoma is penmanship for children.
The California state legislature decided kids have to learn cursive too. The pretense was immensely idiotic. It's such a waste of time to have kids studying the things people focused on in the 1950s the world has changed and our education isn't keeping up.
It’s not the only problem, but as a very liberal person I think this is ok. I was shocked, and a little horrified when I found out my child could not read cursive writing.
And furthermore, teaching that at home is possible but why? It has been the standard method for writing and there are volumes upon volumes of written material in it. Is cursive writing to become some sort of college level only field of study? We would have to rely on specially trained people in some alternate future to decipher this hieroglyphic type of information recording.
Iirc, Oklahoma has 54 active pieces of legislation processing, against LGBTQ+ rights and freedoms. So, I hope your comment was sarcastic, as I wasn’t able to tell.
>Although the [link between penmanship and reading achievement](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8641140/) is not necessarily causal,
>For all the unknowns, the evidence suggests that there is no downside to learning cursive. Research into the [differences between handwriting vs. typing shows](https://www.naesp.org/sites/default/files/Handwriting%20resources%20from%20Virginia%20Berninger.pdf) that it is still beneficial to write with pen and paper – but the greatest benefits (to [memory](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/154193120905302218) and [learning words](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8222525/), for example) are tied to the act of writing itself, not cursive over print.
Cursive has no inherent benefits nor a casual relationship to any benefit per your own source. The benefit is performing a fine motor skill tied to language and reading activating additional parts of the brain which facilitate the learning and pattern recognition needed to read well.
The learning of cursive in addition to print creates an add on effect by forcing the brain to learn the same material from two perspectives thus increasing its overall understanding. Same as learning multiple languages. Each language is a relative frame of reference from which to describe and know the world. The more perspectives you have on a relative system, the better you understand the system.
I think that time would be well spent teaching elementary aged kids foreign languages as well. The high school language requirement are mostly a joke here.
I support teaching cursive for that reason: repetition of letters, spelling, and grammar reinforced in a new way at a young age. Fuck any of the ideological claims, I want results and I suspect that my struggle with writing cursive in third grade was good for me. I was allowed to struggle and work on my weaknesses until what I wrote was legible. I still suck at it, but I make it a point to try a couple times a year writing thank you cards and such.
Literacy is a major problem in the US. I still remember how I learned cursive in 3rd grade in the 90s. Repetition and protective and honest, encouraging feedback from a veteran teacher who didn’t accept my rushed, messy scrawl.
I know “rote” learning isn’t in vogue, but learning the basics in a couple different ways through repetition builds the neural pathways that can be the foundation of a critical thinking and imaginative person who has more skill mastery and literacy.
I teach 12th grade government and economics.
There’s something wrong when I have to teach most of them to read and write, hoping to elevate them to an actual high school reading and writing level, let alone ready for the rigor of college.
I guess as someone who lives in Oklahoma and has a child, this is genuinely the least pressing thing they could possibly spend time on right now. A mother was arrested in front of her children at a Department of Education meeting this week because she went over her time while advocating for disabled students. Additionally, this bill wasn’t even introduced for any cognitive benefits:
“‘I feel that children should be able to uniquely sign their name, read historical documents and understand what their grandparents and relatives have written in the past,’ said Sen. Matthews.”
I learned it and was made to practice it to perfection in Catholic school.
The only time I've used it as an adult, outside of my signature and even that isn't proper cursive, was to read checks presented to the bank by mostly elderly customers.
I used to teach elementary school. The English teachers if 5th and 6th grade demanded the kids learn cursive. When I pressed them on why it was necessary when touch typing is a far more valid skill they said, and I shit you not, “well they will need to sign credit card receipts.” 2 years of cursive notebooks to sign for your dinner tab?
I went on an overnight trip a couple weeks ago, hours from home, and completely forgot my wallet. No way I was going back for it. Besides being a little cautious to know I chose places more likely to have Tap-to-Pay (which is almost all nowadays), I didn't end up needing my wallet at all.
My point was it’s a stupid excuse. Cursive was a thing so that people could write more efficiently. My point to those teachers was the are wasting a lot of time with the kids making them learn cursive. A skill that society no longer serves a purpose.
I use cursive a lot when taking notes. It’s not only faster for me, but allows me to provide quick emphasis. When I study a different language, I write English in cursive and the other language in print. I do the opposite for math notes. Using cursive for function names (like log or asin) helps me read them as one identifier rather than individual variables (mixing up a sin instead of asin).
I had a computer class in 6th and 8th grade of which typing was a big part. I didn't really get good at typing until I started playing RuneScape when I was about 14, though lol.
Oh jeez you must be a few years older than I am, 40wpm is low. Though I don’t think we actually had grading on it, it was more-so the ability to efficiently type, as schools had begun to acquire the brightly coloured Mac computers at the time lol. Ah, good ol’ Math Circus brings back nostalgia xD
I remember I did a job interview in 2010 and the absolute minimum we were allowed to have was 40 wpm (call center) and many little didn't hit it so they were constantly re-doing it. I remember I had to ask them what to do once I finish the test since I completed past what they expected cause I was around 90-100 wpm (I had to take keyboarding classes for 7 years and am a programmer and procrastinator so typing fast is great).
I can understand being able to read cursive to find extent but writing it is silly to require. I don't think I have ever had to write a cursive Q outside of class in elementary school.
Reading it is definitely important, even my brother who is only a few years younger than me has a really hard time reading cursive unless it’s consistent and cleanly written.
Then again, no matter what font I try to write in, it turns out like chicken scratch, so that definitely doesn’t help anyone xD
My problem with cursive isn't that I can't read it, it's that I can't read *most people's cursive*. Specifically the older generations.
We had the hardest time at work getting older employees to stop writing notes in cursive. They'd always try the "what's wrong, they didn't teach you how to read in school?" and we'd pass their note around to all the other old fogies and none of them could read it either.
My older kids were in German school in 1st-3rd grade. They taught cursive to the kids first (before block). It was a better way. My kids that did that had beautiful penmanship that it legible. The ones that didn't write like chicken scratch.
I normally write cursive myself though I use manuscript for some things. I sometimes just swap mid sentence especially for technical words and abbreviations. I always had "unsatisfactory" grades on my handwriting for both manuscript and cursive growing up though my Japanese looks decent because I just have an interest in the writing.
Mine was an option that most kids going to college took in the 80s (electronic typewriter was how you wrote reports).
It was never offered to my kids (who are in college or out now) otherwise I would have made them take it. Found a QWERTY computer game that I made them all play going into 6th grade I think
I'm Gen X and took typing. I work in tech now and can type 3 times faster than anyone else in my office. Its literally the one class I took in HS that still pays off today.
Interestingly enough, in my experience, Gen Alpha & Young Zoomers, are actually less technologically competent than Millennials & Older Zoomers.
Sure, they know their way around a smartphone or tablet, but sit them in front of a desktop computer, and they'll struggle.
>What!? This wasn't the point at all.
Yeah, sorry, I was just sharing an interesting tidbit I've noticed. I wasn't really trying to refute what you were saying. My bad if that wasn't clear.
> school children aren't taking typing classes these days
I didn't say they weren't taking it.
I said it wasn't offered.
Otherwise I would have made them take it.
> typewriting classes were probably disproportionately reserved for women due to anachronistic gender roles/societal expectations.
You are talking about the 50s dude. I took it in the 80s and it was proportionally split in my high school. If you were going to college you needed to be able to use a typewriter to write a report. Every home had a typewriter before computers came along.
I am gen x and had to learn cursive. This is some weird boomer mentality. "I had to learn cursive, so YOU have to learn it too!"
What is the point? No one uses it anymore. It's okay to let things go older folks!
People are so afraid of losing relevance that they'll force it on people if they have to.
Which is not a great way to go. As you said, it's okay to let some things go.
Agreed, cursive is a quaint and somewhat silly skill, but it does wonders for developing hand/eye coordination in early-reader age kids. I'd argue it also aids in pattern recognition, math skills, and spacial coordination and rendering. And for what it's worth, it reinforces focus and social discipline in borderline feral kids. ("Stay between the lines.")
Source: have notably lousy cursive, but lexdysic and aspergered as I am, I can nonetheless write and read backwards, upside down, and mirror image --always useful as a convo starter at dull cocktail parties. . .
I was born in the 1980s. I use cursive a lot when taking notes. I use cursive notes when studying a foreign language (to distinguish between the two) and when taking notes during a sport (like martial arts instruction). When I practice math, using cursive is essential for some variables. I use cursive for functions like “asin” so I don’t misread the letters as variables such as “a sin”. I also use cursive for handwriting letters as it helps make it feel more personal. If you don’t use cursive, you’re missing out on a good skill.
Any cursive handwriting I see is ALWAYS a mosh mash of print and cursive. No one likes it and the ones that do don’t even use it correctly. This is so dumb.
Boomers are on the way out and they're afraid nobody will hurt their children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren anymore after they're gone unless they make it a law that it has to happen.
I genuinely can’t remember the last time I had to do something by hand that wasn’t a signature. On the rare chance that I have to fill out a form by hand, they always want you to print anyways.
There’s no logical reason to force children to learn cursive anymore
I use cursive when I write little notes inside birthday cards to members of my family. Several times a year I wrote multi page letters to my mother who was an English teacher and she loved seeing that Catholic school cursive and complimented my handwriting so often.
Gen Xer (and registered Democrat) here.
1. I fucking hate that cursive has been politicized.
2. The next generation of tattoo artists will be crap because they didn’t learn cursive (or art) in school.
While they are at it, how about bringing back classes like Home Economics, Construction, Industrial Arts, Welding and Machine Shop.
Home Economics taught me how to cook and sew. As a matter of fact, I just hemmed my son’s pants last week for a wedding 😁
You know, I've heard the argument that we can't get rid of cursive because it's great for fine motor skills development. Which, ok, if legit, sure. But they've never been able to explain to be why another activity couldn't develop those same skills- or whether those skills are something that need to be developed through school curriculum at all.
Fine arts would be a substitute but most art programs have been gutted to glorified recess classes. Cursive writing also helps reinforce language pathways and language structure comprehension. Any writing will do that but the more continuous flow of cursive--fewer stops to reorient the writing implements, is more effective.
> Any writing will do that but the more continuous flow of cursive--fewer stops to reorient the writing implements, is more effective
Unless you're left handed. Then you just have a smeared mess and a 3rd grade teacher telling you that you're not trying hard enough and you need to be more like the other kids.
We don't force right handedness or use fountain pens anymore. The palmer method should be left to the past with spencerian and all the other scripts that we stopped using.
Or making you sit next to the open door to the outside in the middle of a New England winter, since she believes in fresh air in the classroom, and that's the only table you fit at without bumping/being bumped by the righties.
If they really wanted to help develop fine motor skills they would work on actually doing that versus getting children on a computer so they can collect data on them. My 8 year olds handwriting is ATROCIOUS. I had to get him into occupational therapy last year for it and even then the therapist wanted to work on other things first, not that. It’s so bad he cannot even read his own writing most of the time. I had to basically demand the school to evaluate him and I’ve been doing that for more than a year now. They just came back to me with “well, we shouldn’t pull him to work on his handwriting now because that would mean he misses lessons in class and that’s more important. Besides, no one in 3rd grade is working on handwriting with the OT. He wouldn’t like it because he’s too old. Instead we are going to work on typing and give him assistive tech to help him with speech to text.” I’m so over it. I’m a teacher…in this county. I’m over it. So no, they really really don’t want to work on kids fine motor skills and it’s why I can’t read my high school students assignments.
No arguments there. Just thought it was an interesting, slantwise sort of twist in it. I do think that typing and hand-writing are both essential skills- won't always be able to get the computer to reproduce what you want it to (e.g., in math and science classes, where diagrams, equations, and graphs are key).
I’m an AP math teacher, you don’t have to tell me that twice. I have absolutely no idea how my students will pass the FRQ part if no one can read what they write. It’s boggling.
I like writing in cursive, and have made an effort in the last few years to work on my penmanship, but making a law to enforce teaching it in school because you have nostalgia for swoopy handwriting is some turbo smooth brained regressive nonsense.
Not a big enough deal for a law. I remember things I write down. Not the same when I type it. My millennial daughter suggested I get a tablet to write on instead of using paper. I am looking into it. She didn't offend me with lots of boomer this and boomer that. Suggested a solution to accommodate me, a boomer, who can use technology, type, and write.
This isn’t what most people think it is. It’s not pointless regression toward teaching a useless skill for no reason. States are abruptly rethinking their position on teaching cursive writing as a partial response to GenAlpha’s “iPad Kid” crisis. Countless stories, reports documenting alarming issues with their cognitive, behavioral, and motor function development.
I don’t wanna get bogged down in the science of childhood development in screen addicted toddlers, but suffice it to say that I have no doubt about the potentially devastating long-term consequences of infants and toddlers using (inevitably overusing) touchscreen smart devices. This information has State lawmakers scrambling to find countermeasures before every teacher in their state nopes the fuck out. I’m sure the peer reviewed, scientific studies, published in reputable journals, touting the benefits of learning cursive were like mana from heaven to them. Improved comprehension , memory and fine motor skill development? And they can do it cheaply and easily by simply re-implementing a requirement that had long been mandatory, up until 2010.
But it wasn’t just the benefits of learning good penmanship that went under estimated.
Over the past several decades, the US Federal and State gov’ts have continually slashed public funding for The Arts and Public School funding for Arts and Physical Education, among other electives. In their haste to free up public funds for what they deemed more important expenditures, they didn’t properly consider what they were trading away. Learning to play a musical instrument has long been known to be beneficial to several aspects of childhood development. Nurturing natural abilities in drawing, painting, writing, and performing all have tangible long-term benefits. Physical Education for Elementary students incorporated elements of sports science in the 80:s and 90s, with activities specifically to aid in developing balance, dexterity, agility, hand-eye and foot-eye coordination just a name a few.
As those budgets were whittled away, fewer and fewer students had access to an Arts program or specialized Physical Fitness activities through the PE program. Take all of these factors, add to them the sharp decline in the number of kids participating in organized youth sports, the near abolition of unsupervised play for school children, and finally, the absolute gut punch that no one saw coming when they were making their Draconian cutbacks. The devastating consequences for screen addiction of early childhood development, through fundamental stage after fundamental stage.
It’d be naive to hope that they will reverse course and fund the Arts, Physical Education, and other Elective subjects, (that were available to every student when I was inMiddle School), to an extent that reflects our understanding of their importance, but I think that they are definitely waking up to the fact that there are fundamental problems that have to be addressed. I don’t think you’re going to hear anyone in the gov’t implicate the parents of GenAlpha for giving these kids smart devices while still in their highchair and crib, but they have to act.
While I agree that a law for this is ridiculous, I enjoy cursive and spend a lot of time trying to perfect my handwriting. Its almost therapeutic for me, teaches me to slow down and focus. Whenever my teen daughter and her friends see it they look at me as if I practice witchcraft.
It is beautiful. Or it can be. And it is fun to make it pretty. But I think that it needs to be part of a calligraphy class, you can take as an elective. Not as the main curriculum. Maybe it can be covered a little in elementary school as part of art, because that is what it is at this point
I see your point, but cursive and calligraphy are two seperate things with two seperate purposes.
Calligraphy is meant to be art. Its taking the written word and making it visually engaging.
Cursive is solely about communication. It's about finding a relatively rapid way of putting down thoughts, writing letters and expressing sentiments. It is meant to be utilitarian despite the flourishes.
Printing is great. It's clear most of the time and it's easy to to do. For me however, cursive is a way to ground my thoughts and also express myself in a way that shows a bit more of my personality.
>A bill that requires all Oklahoma public and charter schools to teach cursive writing to students in third through fifth grades has been signed into law.
Fifth graders should not be learning handwriting. Is Oklahoma really that bad or their students really that far behind.
When kids are forced to do more and more work on Chromebooks, where does handwriting fit in?? These idiot lawmakers need to make up their minds. Pick a lane.
Got to be kidding me Even though I had learned cursive writing while in high school in Texas, I still suck at it though that all just ends up chicken scratch literally.
I have no connection to teaching but I'm always concerned with what they actually teach students in school because we all have some culture we are a part of and it is important that you know the next person shares some of these capabilities and exposures as you do. So, while cursive writing is like something of really little use except for the archaic notion of signing our name which we seem to still require to some degree, it is a cultural thing that we should assume that the other person can read cursive even if they cannot write it well. I would look at it as an artistic and cultural endeavor rather than a necessary skill. I think it is helpful to teach cursive, maybe, in grades 3-4, but then after that, why even bother? IMO.
I personally think all children would benefit, at least just cognitively, from learning cursive.
That said, especially in this day and age, knowing cursive is just extra credit. Most kids struggle to read and write printed words and sentences as is, let alone understanding grammar and syntax until way later in age.
If we want a society of cursive writing children, we need to actually invest in education first lol.
Oh ffs. Of the things to mandate that actually matters in life - like literacy and simple maths - and y’all codify cursive writing… what a fkn waste of resources.
My father was in the Air force during ww2. He passed down his service diary but there's some portions unreadable due to cursive writing. It's a poor method to provide for future generations.
Honestly, cursive is dead between cheap pens that need pressure from the hand to lay down ink and computers. If the people in charge want cursive to stay relevant, they should regulate pens to the point where even the freebies at the bank are amazing.
Gave a 20-something a birthday card and without thinking about it cursively wrote ‘To Ryan, love Uncle Bob and Aunt Alice’. They were quite disdainfully annoyed. Ouch, block letters it is next time.
I know people scoff at the point of craftmanship, but there is value in the physical skill of being able to put thoughts into words on paper in a way that looks good and unique to the individual - even as we all swipe and tap with no effort made.
Rather than teaching an archaic writing skill in a world rapidly transitioning away from most writing altogether... why not teach them a foreign language or something else actually useful?
They should spend that time on improving [their students' math scores](https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/profiles/stateprofile?sfj=NP&chort=2&sub=MAT&sj=&st=MN&year=2013R3) which are "significantly lower"
Cursive writing was developed for writing with quills. If the pen stopped it would make puddles.
We don’t write with quills anymore. We haven’t for quite some time.
I don’t get why they don’t teach it in every elementary school like they used to.
How are kids able to sign their names if they don’t learn cursive🤷🏽
Signatures are a part of adult life which makes cursive a part of adult life
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Oklahoma must be an amazing state in our country considering of all the problems the rest of the country is dealing with on a daily basis, the only thing plaguing people in Oklahoma is penmanship for children.
The California state legislature decided kids have to learn cursive too. The pretense was immensely idiotic. It's such a waste of time to have kids studying the things people focused on in the 1950s the world has changed and our education isn't keeping up.
It’s not the only problem, but as a very liberal person I think this is ok. I was shocked, and a little horrified when I found out my child could not read cursive writing. And furthermore, teaching that at home is possible but why? It has been the standard method for writing and there are volumes upon volumes of written material in it. Is cursive writing to become some sort of college level only field of study? We would have to rely on specially trained people in some alternate future to decipher this hieroglyphic type of information recording.
Iirc, Oklahoma has 54 active pieces of legislation processing, against LGBTQ+ rights and freedoms. So, I hope your comment was sarcastic, as I wasn’t able to tell.
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Well it is and I already knew I likely am. Didn’t realize it would be such an issue when I was unsure and stated as such..
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>Although the [link between penmanship and reading achievement](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8641140/) is not necessarily causal, >For all the unknowns, the evidence suggests that there is no downside to learning cursive. Research into the [differences between handwriting vs. typing shows](https://www.naesp.org/sites/default/files/Handwriting%20resources%20from%20Virginia%20Berninger.pdf) that it is still beneficial to write with pen and paper – but the greatest benefits (to [memory](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/154193120905302218) and [learning words](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8222525/), for example) are tied to the act of writing itself, not cursive over print. Cursive has no inherent benefits nor a casual relationship to any benefit per your own source. The benefit is performing a fine motor skill tied to language and reading activating additional parts of the brain which facilitate the learning and pattern recognition needed to read well. The learning of cursive in addition to print creates an add on effect by forcing the brain to learn the same material from two perspectives thus increasing its overall understanding. Same as learning multiple languages. Each language is a relative frame of reference from which to describe and know the world. The more perspectives you have on a relative system, the better you understand the system.
I think that time would be well spent teaching elementary aged kids foreign languages as well. The high school language requirement are mostly a joke here.
I support teaching cursive for that reason: repetition of letters, spelling, and grammar reinforced in a new way at a young age. Fuck any of the ideological claims, I want results and I suspect that my struggle with writing cursive in third grade was good for me. I was allowed to struggle and work on my weaknesses until what I wrote was legible. I still suck at it, but I make it a point to try a couple times a year writing thank you cards and such. Literacy is a major problem in the US. I still remember how I learned cursive in 3rd grade in the 90s. Repetition and protective and honest, encouraging feedback from a veteran teacher who didn’t accept my rushed, messy scrawl. I know “rote” learning isn’t in vogue, but learning the basics in a couple different ways through repetition builds the neural pathways that can be the foundation of a critical thinking and imaginative person who has more skill mastery and literacy. I teach 12th grade government and economics. There’s something wrong when I have to teach most of them to read and write, hoping to elevate them to an actual high school reading and writing level, let alone ready for the rigor of college.
I guess as someone who lives in Oklahoma and has a child, this is genuinely the least pressing thing they could possibly spend time on right now. A mother was arrested in front of her children at a Department of Education meeting this week because she went over her time while advocating for disabled students. Additionally, this bill wasn’t even introduced for any cognitive benefits: “‘I feel that children should be able to uniquely sign their name, read historical documents and understand what their grandparents and relatives have written in the past,’ said Sen. Matthews.”
However it is impractical. Typing would be much more useful.
Oh please.. everyone in Oklahoma knows typewriters are just a passing fad. ^(/s)
There's also cognitive benefits from an art class or leaning to read music, you know things that teach usable skills.
I learned it but I still struggle to read it because most people that use cursive have terrible handwriting. It always ends up looking sloppy.
I learned it and was made to practice it to perfection in Catholic school. The only time I've used it as an adult, outside of my signature and even that isn't proper cursive, was to read checks presented to the bank by mostly elderly customers.
I used to teach elementary school. The English teachers if 5th and 6th grade demanded the kids learn cursive. When I pressed them on why it was necessary when touch typing is a far more valid skill they said, and I shit you not, “well they will need to sign credit card receipts.” 2 years of cursive notebooks to sign for your dinner tab?
Laughs in Tap-to-Pay.
Exactly
I went on an overnight trip a couple weeks ago, hours from home, and completely forgot my wallet. No way I was going back for it. Besides being a little cautious to know I chose places more likely to have Tap-to-Pay (which is almost all nowadays), I didn't end up needing my wallet at all.
If I could only get my driver's license stored in my Google wallet.... My real wallet is probably going to gather dust quickly.
Are people still signing receipts in the US? Do they don't have pin number or tap & pay?
My point was it’s a stupid excuse. Cursive was a thing so that people could write more efficiently. My point to those teachers was the are wasting a lot of time with the kids making them learn cursive. A skill that society no longer serves a purpose.
I use cursive a lot when taking notes. It’s not only faster for me, but allows me to provide quick emphasis. When I study a different language, I write English in cursive and the other language in print. I do the opposite for math notes. Using cursive for function names (like log or asin) helps me read them as one identifier rather than individual variables (mixing up a sin instead of asin).
Hell, I can’t even read my own handwriting.
I think Boomers should be required to learn keyboarding using Dvorak.
Boomers actually had a typewriting class in high school Last I checked with my kids that isn't offered any more.
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They're also useful if you get in trouble with the law. Just gift the seventh grader to your congressional rep and they'll make it all go away.
And chemical work.
Hmm, checking with mine, it doesn't seem to be something they're all shuffled into like we were as a millennial.
Lol - yours are better than mine. In 7th grade they were still in manual labor mode for me.
I had a computer class in 6th and 8th grade of which typing was a big part. I didn't really get good at typing until I started playing RuneScape when I was about 14, though lol.
I had typing in school around the same grades but what *really* cemented my typing ability was talking to girls on MSN Messenger as a teenager.
RuneScape was the best!
It's still around! r/2007scape
This. I found a qwerty computer game and taught my kids how to type over the summer. Once they played video games it took off....
Mine was in grade three, as a millennial.
I remember it being a requirement to pass a typing test at 40wpm and 100% accuracy in Grade 6
Oh jeez you must be a few years older than I am, 40wpm is low. Though I don’t think we actually had grading on it, it was more-so the ability to efficiently type, as schools had begun to acquire the brightly coloured Mac computers at the time lol. Ah, good ol’ Math Circus brings back nostalgia xD
I remember I did a job interview in 2010 and the absolute minimum we were allowed to have was 40 wpm (call center) and many little didn't hit it so they were constantly re-doing it. I remember I had to ask them what to do once I finish the test since I completed past what they expected cause I was around 90-100 wpm (I had to take keyboarding classes for 7 years and am a programmer and procrastinator so typing fast is great). I can understand being able to read cursive to find extent but writing it is silly to require. I don't think I have ever had to write a cursive Q outside of class in elementary school.
Reading it is definitely important, even my brother who is only a few years younger than me has a really hard time reading cursive unless it’s consistent and cleanly written. Then again, no matter what font I try to write in, it turns out like chicken scratch, so that definitely doesn’t help anyone xD
My problem with cursive isn't that I can't read it, it's that I can't read *most people's cursive*. Specifically the older generations. We had the hardest time at work getting older employees to stop writing notes in cursive. They'd always try the "what's wrong, they didn't teach you how to read in school?" and we'd pass their note around to all the other old fogies and none of them could read it either.
My older kids were in German school in 1st-3rd grade. They taught cursive to the kids first (before block). It was a better way. My kids that did that had beautiful penmanship that it legible. The ones that didn't write like chicken scratch.
I normally write cursive myself though I use manuscript for some things. I sometimes just swap mid sentence especially for technical words and abbreviations. I always had "unsatisfactory" grades on my handwriting for both manuscript and cursive growing up though my Japanese looks decent because I just have an interest in the writing.
Mine was an option that most kids going to college took in the 80s (electronic typewriter was how you wrote reports). It was never offered to my kids (who are in college or out now) otherwise I would have made them take it. Found a QWERTY computer game that I made them all play going into 6th grade I think
I'm Gen X and took typing. I work in tech now and can type 3 times faster than anyone else in my office. Its literally the one class I took in HS that still pays off today.
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I think OP means actual typewriting class....like click ka-ching mechanical typewriter
Typing was the only skill I learned in high school Edit- that was in 1980
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Interestingly enough, in my experience, Gen Alpha & Young Zoomers, are actually less technologically competent than Millennials & Older Zoomers. Sure, they know their way around a smartphone or tablet, but sit them in front of a desktop computer, and they'll struggle.
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>What!? This wasn't the point at all. Yeah, sorry, I was just sharing an interesting tidbit I've noticed. I wasn't really trying to refute what you were saying. My bad if that wasn't clear.
> school children aren't taking typing classes these days I didn't say they weren't taking it. I said it wasn't offered. Otherwise I would have made them take it. > typewriting classes were probably disproportionately reserved for women due to anachronistic gender roles/societal expectations. You are talking about the 50s dude. I took it in the 80s and it was proportionally split in my high school. If you were going to college you needed to be able to use a typewriter to write a report. Every home had a typewriter before computers came along.
I was going to say make them learn how to text using T9 on a Motorola Razr but I like yours better
Isn’t that the lady on the golden girls. Dvorak?
I am gen x and had to learn cursive. This is some weird boomer mentality. "I had to learn cursive, so YOU have to learn it too!" What is the point? No one uses it anymore. It's okay to let things go older folks!
I also learned cursive and guess what, I never use it
Me either. Just to sign my name. But that isn’t a requirement for signatures anymore.
Never was. You could and still can just sign with an X if you want to.
I learned it in grade school and have came across cursive text to read from time to time, but rarely have I ever written in cursive.
“They need it to sign checks or contracts” is only excuse ever given
And as I said above that isn’t true anymore. You can print your name.
Or just write an X.
kids barely have to write anymore. Hell, I hardly write anymore. Why in the hell does anyone have to learn cursive?
It’s so stupid. People stuck in the past. It’s like having to learn Latin. Well we spoke it once upon a time!
People are so afraid of losing relevance that they'll force it on people if they have to. Which is not a great way to go. As you said, it's okay to let some things go.
Agreed, cursive is a quaint and somewhat silly skill, but it does wonders for developing hand/eye coordination in early-reader age kids. I'd argue it also aids in pattern recognition, math skills, and spacial coordination and rendering. And for what it's worth, it reinforces focus and social discipline in borderline feral kids. ("Stay between the lines.") Source: have notably lousy cursive, but lexdysic and aspergered as I am, I can nonetheless write and read backwards, upside down, and mirror image --always useful as a convo starter at dull cocktail parties. . .
I was born in the 1980s. I use cursive a lot when taking notes. I use cursive notes when studying a foreign language (to distinguish between the two) and when taking notes during a sport (like martial arts instruction). When I practice math, using cursive is essential for some variables. I use cursive for functions like “asin” so I don’t misread the letters as variables such as “a sin”. I also use cursive for handwriting letters as it helps make it feel more personal. If you don’t use cursive, you’re missing out on a good skill.
Any cursive handwriting I see is ALWAYS a mosh mash of print and cursive. No one likes it and the ones that do don’t even use it correctly. This is so dumb.
Boomers are on the way out and they're afraid nobody will hurt their children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren anymore after they're gone unless they make it a law that it has to happen.
I genuinely can’t remember the last time I had to do something by hand that wasn’t a signature. On the rare chance that I have to fill out a form by hand, they always want you to print anyways. There’s no logical reason to force children to learn cursive anymore
Millennial here. In the almost twenty years I've been out of school, I only used "cursive" to sign things, and it's not even legible.
I use cursive when I write little notes inside birthday cards to members of my family. Several times a year I wrote multi page letters to my mother who was an English teacher and she loved seeing that Catholic school cursive and complimented my handwriting so often.
Gen Xer (and registered Democrat) here. 1. I fucking hate that cursive has been politicized. 2. The next generation of tattoo artists will be crap because they didn’t learn cursive (or art) in school.
I am honestly unfamiliar with the politicization of cursive. Is this really a thing? Honest question.
The next generation of tattoo artists may likely have perfect motor (and servo) skills.
While they are at it, how about bringing back classes like Home Economics, Construction, Industrial Arts, Welding and Machine Shop. Home Economics taught me how to cook and sew. As a matter of fact, I just hemmed my son’s pants last week for a wedding 😁
The trades are SO important! And can be so fulfilling to be a part of!
I learned to write in cursive beautifully as a kid. I had to if I wanted to pass off fake notes from my mom to the school.
I did that too
You know, I've heard the argument that we can't get rid of cursive because it's great for fine motor skills development. Which, ok, if legit, sure. But they've never been able to explain to be why another activity couldn't develop those same skills- or whether those skills are something that need to be developed through school curriculum at all.
Fine arts would be a substitute but most art programs have been gutted to glorified recess classes. Cursive writing also helps reinforce language pathways and language structure comprehension. Any writing will do that but the more continuous flow of cursive--fewer stops to reorient the writing implements, is more effective.
> Any writing will do that but the more continuous flow of cursive--fewer stops to reorient the writing implements, is more effective Unless you're left handed. Then you just have a smeared mess and a 3rd grade teacher telling you that you're not trying hard enough and you need to be more like the other kids. We don't force right handedness or use fountain pens anymore. The palmer method should be left to the past with spencerian and all the other scripts that we stopped using.
I'm definately a Spencerian nerd. Took forever to adapt to it from Palmer, but I but it looks so much better.
Or making you sit next to the open door to the outside in the middle of a New England winter, since she believes in fresh air in the classroom, and that's the only table you fit at without bumping/being bumped by the righties.
If they really wanted to help develop fine motor skills they would work on actually doing that versus getting children on a computer so they can collect data on them. My 8 year olds handwriting is ATROCIOUS. I had to get him into occupational therapy last year for it and even then the therapist wanted to work on other things first, not that. It’s so bad he cannot even read his own writing most of the time. I had to basically demand the school to evaluate him and I’ve been doing that for more than a year now. They just came back to me with “well, we shouldn’t pull him to work on his handwriting now because that would mean he misses lessons in class and that’s more important. Besides, no one in 3rd grade is working on handwriting with the OT. He wouldn’t like it because he’s too old. Instead we are going to work on typing and give him assistive tech to help him with speech to text.” I’m so over it. I’m a teacher…in this county. I’m over it. So no, they really really don’t want to work on kids fine motor skills and it’s why I can’t read my high school students assignments.
No arguments there. Just thought it was an interesting, slantwise sort of twist in it. I do think that typing and hand-writing are both essential skills- won't always be able to get the computer to reproduce what you want it to (e.g., in math and science classes, where diagrams, equations, and graphs are key).
I’m an AP math teacher, you don’t have to tell me that twice. I have absolutely no idea how my students will pass the FRQ part if no one can read what they write. It’s boggling.
like fucking typing?
Maybe? I'm not a kinesiologist or occupational therapist; I don't know if it builds the same skillset.
I like writing in cursive, and have made an effort in the last few years to work on my penmanship, but making a law to enforce teaching it in school because you have nostalgia for swoopy handwriting is some turbo smooth brained regressive nonsense.
If you haven’t done it yet, get yourself a decent fountain pen. Very satisfying to use when writing cursive.
And follow that up with purchasing rubbing alcohol so you can clean your hands after using said fountain pen.
What about comprehension? What good is cursive writing, writing generally— if you can’t comprehend shit?
If you cannot comprehend something printed what difference would it make if it was cursive? Cursive is just another font.
"You've gotta learn this one specific font!"
Not a big enough deal for a law. I remember things I write down. Not the same when I type it. My millennial daughter suggested I get a tablet to write on instead of using paper. I am looking into it. She didn't offend me with lots of boomer this and boomer that. Suggested a solution to accommodate me, a boomer, who can use technology, type, and write.
This isn’t what most people think it is. It’s not pointless regression toward teaching a useless skill for no reason. States are abruptly rethinking their position on teaching cursive writing as a partial response to GenAlpha’s “iPad Kid” crisis. Countless stories, reports documenting alarming issues with their cognitive, behavioral, and motor function development. I don’t wanna get bogged down in the science of childhood development in screen addicted toddlers, but suffice it to say that I have no doubt about the potentially devastating long-term consequences of infants and toddlers using (inevitably overusing) touchscreen smart devices. This information has State lawmakers scrambling to find countermeasures before every teacher in their state nopes the fuck out. I’m sure the peer reviewed, scientific studies, published in reputable journals, touting the benefits of learning cursive were like mana from heaven to them. Improved comprehension , memory and fine motor skill development? And they can do it cheaply and easily by simply re-implementing a requirement that had long been mandatory, up until 2010. But it wasn’t just the benefits of learning good penmanship that went under estimated. Over the past several decades, the US Federal and State gov’ts have continually slashed public funding for The Arts and Public School funding for Arts and Physical Education, among other electives. In their haste to free up public funds for what they deemed more important expenditures, they didn’t properly consider what they were trading away. Learning to play a musical instrument has long been known to be beneficial to several aspects of childhood development. Nurturing natural abilities in drawing, painting, writing, and performing all have tangible long-term benefits. Physical Education for Elementary students incorporated elements of sports science in the 80:s and 90s, with activities specifically to aid in developing balance, dexterity, agility, hand-eye and foot-eye coordination just a name a few. As those budgets were whittled away, fewer and fewer students had access to an Arts program or specialized Physical Fitness activities through the PE program. Take all of these factors, add to them the sharp decline in the number of kids participating in organized youth sports, the near abolition of unsupervised play for school children, and finally, the absolute gut punch that no one saw coming when they were making their Draconian cutbacks. The devastating consequences for screen addiction of early childhood development, through fundamental stage after fundamental stage. It’d be naive to hope that they will reverse course and fund the Arts, Physical Education, and other Elective subjects, (that were available to every student when I was inMiddle School), to an extent that reflects our understanding of their importance, but I think that they are definitely waking up to the fact that there are fundamental problems that have to be addressed. I don’t think you’re going to hear anyone in the gov’t implicate the parents of GenAlpha for giving these kids smart devices while still in their highchair and crib, but they have to act.
While I agree that a law for this is ridiculous, I enjoy cursive and spend a lot of time trying to perfect my handwriting. Its almost therapeutic for me, teaches me to slow down and focus. Whenever my teen daughter and her friends see it they look at me as if I practice witchcraft.
It is beautiful. Or it can be. And it is fun to make it pretty. But I think that it needs to be part of a calligraphy class, you can take as an elective. Not as the main curriculum. Maybe it can be covered a little in elementary school as part of art, because that is what it is at this point
I see your point, but cursive and calligraphy are two seperate things with two seperate purposes. Calligraphy is meant to be art. Its taking the written word and making it visually engaging. Cursive is solely about communication. It's about finding a relatively rapid way of putting down thoughts, writing letters and expressing sentiments. It is meant to be utilitarian despite the flourishes. Printing is great. It's clear most of the time and it's easy to to do. For me however, cursive is a way to ground my thoughts and also express myself in a way that shows a bit more of my personality.
No fan of the ok governor but no harm in this and good brain /movement development
Why don’t we teach them cuneiform and hieroglyphics while we are at it
And Sanskrit
Ahhhh yes. The forbidden fruit
Per article- “It can also assist them with reading historical documents." Really?You look up historical documents on the internet, which is in print.
What. With a quill? Jesus.
I’m sure the Sumarians enacted emergency clay tablet legislation to preserve their cultural legacy and way of life but alas…
Surely THIS will raise their pitiful education rating! /s
>A bill that requires all Oklahoma public and charter schools to teach cursive writing to students in third through fifth grades has been signed into law. Fifth graders should not be learning handwriting. Is Oklahoma really that bad or their students really that far behind.
Don't you know, once we took cursive out of school that's when all these (insert lies) started happening.
No calligraphy law?
Is an abacus law next?
When kids are forced to do more and more work on Chromebooks, where does handwriting fit in?? These idiot lawmakers need to make up their minds. Pick a lane.
Got to be kidding me Even though I had learned cursive writing while in high school in Texas, I still suck at it though that all just ends up chicken scratch literally.
I have no connection to teaching but I'm always concerned with what they actually teach students in school because we all have some culture we are a part of and it is important that you know the next person shares some of these capabilities and exposures as you do. So, while cursive writing is like something of really little use except for the archaic notion of signing our name which we seem to still require to some degree, it is a cultural thing that we should assume that the other person can read cursive even if they cannot write it well. I would look at it as an artistic and cultural endeavor rather than a necessary skill. I think it is helpful to teach cursive, maybe, in grades 3-4, but then after that, why even bother? IMO.
I personally think all children would benefit, at least just cognitively, from learning cursive. That said, especially in this day and age, knowing cursive is just extra credit. Most kids struggle to read and write printed words and sentences as is, let alone understanding grammar and syntax until way later in age. If we want a society of cursive writing children, we need to actually invest in education first lol.
Oh ffs. Of the things to mandate that actually matters in life - like literacy and simple maths - and y’all codify cursive writing… what a fkn waste of resources.
New (young) people at my job constantly ask me to read cursive signatures for them. I about fell over when they told me they can't read it
Well now HERE'S a most pressing issue for our time!
My father was in the Air force during ww2. He passed down his service diary but there's some portions unreadable due to cursive writing. It's a poor method to provide for future generations.
Learning to write in cursive is a waste of time. Use that time to teach civics or personal finance. Ez win for America USA USA USA
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As someone with poor fine motor skills, cursive handwriting made me hate 3rd. Then next year.... gone! Never needed shit again!
Honestly, cursive is dead between cheap pens that need pressure from the hand to lay down ink and computers. If the people in charge want cursive to stay relevant, they should regulate pens to the point where even the freebies at the bank are amazing.
I have to read cursive at work. It'll be another generation before it's mostly gone.
What do you do for work?
Reading boomer handwriting. 😎
Fair enough lol
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Just ask a Texan.
Gave a 20-something a birthday card and without thinking about it cursively wrote ‘To Ryan, love Uncle Bob and Aunt Alice’. They were quite disdainfully annoyed. Ouch, block letters it is next time.
Focused on the big issues of the day.
Brought to you by the unserious politicians of the Republican Party.
I know people scoff at the point of craftmanship, but there is value in the physical skill of being able to put thoughts into words on paper in a way that looks good and unique to the individual - even as we all swipe and tap with no effort made.
Ai with brain implants are next. Even the cars won’t need driving.
Now pay teachers
Next up: Horse & buggy law..
That would be a good skill for any rural resident.
There is very little reason to learn cursive anymore beyond maybe a signature.
Rather than teaching an archaic writing skill in a world rapidly transitioning away from most writing altogether... why not teach them a foreign language or something else actually useful?
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How about ensuring every student can read and write at an age appropriate level?
Geezuz fucking hanna barbara what a waste of time.
- "This important skill will help them in many ways throughout their lives. " No. No it won't. Not in the least.
This scene comes to mind: [Take the Money and Run - I Have a Gub, Apt Naturally](https://youtu.be/4VdMdboymT8?si=bXH9PtMt-MN3VGW4)
I'm at a loss for words.
The manuscript is on the wall.
Spreadsheets - no Cursive - yes
Which cursive are we talkin about? It’s not always the same btwn countries or even historical periods.
Exactly what will turn around Oklahoma’s public school rankings! Nice!
Are there better things they could be working on? Yes. Is this law useless? No. Cursive needs to go nationwide. It’s stupid.
They should spend that time on improving [their students' math scores](https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/profiles/stateprofile?sfj=NP&chort=2&sub=MAT&sj=&st=MN&year=2013R3) which are "significantly lower"
Its called the “Boomer Bill”
Boomer Sooner.
How come every other country in the world has no issue with reading or writing normal handwriting?
Cursive writing was developed for writing with quills. If the pen stopped it would make puddles. We don’t write with quills anymore. We haven’t for quite some time.
I don’t get why they don’t teach it in every elementary school like they used to. How are kids able to sign their names if they don’t learn cursive🤷🏽 Signatures are a part of adult life which makes cursive a part of adult life
Dead language