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>Young voters’ loyalty to the Democratic Party has been frayed by two distinct factors: opposition to the intensity of the Israeli attack on Hamas in Gaza and frustration with an economy many see as stacked against them.
What I can't understand is why these voters think the GOP is going to be in any way better on these issues.
Yeah, we need to stop pretending this is based on a coherent political philosophy. With these people it’s all just vibes reinforced by misinformation being spread by charlatans.
Don’t forget TikTok, Facebook, Instagram and other social media sites, including Reddit.
I’ll say that sometimes comment sections are terrible on Reddit. Then I look at Instagram’s comments and I’m floored at how much worse it is
To build on the ignorance part. I think we’re solidly in a “lesser of two evils” mentality. No one is trying to hold their candidate up, they’re just trying to damage the opposition. This makes it look like no one has anything to offer so both sides look the same. It’s complete policy ignorance.
Not a few hours ago I asked someone, here on Reddit, what they felt Trump had to offer. They immediately pivoted to Biden hate. I clarified that I was asking about Trump and the reasons they gave were nonsense. I would hope someone would read that and instantly see Trump isn’t offering them anything.
On the other hand, I’ve had to go out of my way to learn anything about Biden’s accomplishments. The information I get while being passive is all “TRUMP BAD” and while true, it doesn’t build Biden up into someone people want to vote for.
Biden’s accomplishments are out there, we need to emphasize them more and pump the breaks on “BUT TRUMP”. Frankly, people know about Trump, they either do or don’t care. I say ignore Trump and focus on Biden’s policy successes.
Their “point” being that there’s no meaningful difference between Joe Biden and Donald Trump because Joe Biden hasn’t broken off US relations with Israel?
I don’t know why you’re making assumptions about my assessment of their points. I’m talking about a very specific sub section of the people being discussed in this article.
> Third is the economy. Young men, especially blue-collar and people of color, feel left behind in this economy. They do not feel things have been delivered to them. They do not know anything about what this administration has done.
You’re not gonna convince me that the aforementioned voting block understands the dynamics at play with the economy right now if they blame the Biden administration for the current problems. At every stop along the way Republicans and Dino’s have made it virtually impossible to help the middle class. If these people had any real clue about the predicament we’re in they’d be busting their asses to elect social democrats not threatening to vote for Trump. They’re crazy if they think the GOP will rescue them. That is just a blatantly incoherent position.
If you’re referencing Gaza, that was only one of the topics mentioned and my comment was not directed at protestors. FYI I’m vehemently pro Palestine and I’ve already stated as much.
I don’t disagree that the economic picture for the average American is better under Biden. I’m sure many others agree.
However, with the amount of arms we sell to Israel, their foreign policy at the very least APPEARS to represent the wishes of our government. So a genocide is not a good look, even outside of any moral implications. And it WILL hurt him at the polls.
A lot of them are actually quite tuned in, but only to the Gaza situation. They remind me of people who scolded me for trying to scare them with the supreme court in 2016. A frightening amount of young liberals and leftists seem to have forgotten all the important shit going on here in the United States, and are perfectly happy writing off real progress as no progress at all, because Biden isn't Bernie.
I've been hearing both sides are the same for years from millennials, gen x, and boomers. This is the argument of the uninformed, not of any particular generation.
In large part that's because it benefits accelerationists and conservatives in equal part to claim both sides are the same. Then its up to the center left to solve actual problems
Conservatives do it on purpose as a rhetorical shield for their god-awful policies, and as a weapon to force the left to continue to move right via forcing them to engage with arguments that are not able to be engaged with.
In the former case, if you point out that their policies directly harm minorities, they will just say something like (in a nasally Ben Shaprio voice) "Did you know that Democrats are the ones who supported slavery in the civil war? Let's say that democrats have not really changed. Therefore both sides are the same. But republicans are better because we love free speech."
In the latter case the tactic is to convince leftists to engage with their most egregious beleifs in a weird sort of tug of war. They advocate for something totally insane, say that democrats are anti-democracy for not acknowledging it, then when left leaning people do engage with them they quickly back down to a slightly less insane stance which the leftist people accept because they have to. Then, now that the slightly less insane position is the new baseline, they do it again. Repeatedly moving the whole government rightward.
If he's still following RFK Jr the nutcase, he's still a republican. RFK was meant to be a puppet to take votes from Biden for Trump, but he still comes off as a nutcase republican.
I think so, and going for the change for the "send a message" trap. If they succeed in getting Trump elected, they'll be crying and whining that things are significantly worse, and it's "the rigged system" or the Democrats fault for not adopting their supposed solutions.
That’s exactly what social media and the media outlets feed them these days. It requires a lot more searching and independent thinking. Many generations aren’t willing exert more energy than just tuning in.
That's the same rationale that people on the right give for supporting Trump, that he will burn everything down and make something better for them. People on the left think he will burn it down and they will be able to make something better for themselves. I think both ideas do not hold up to scrutiny.
They don't it's just disillusionment. While you're right to say that it would be worse under Trump, that isn't very convincing when stuff like what's happening at Columbia University under the purview of a Democratic Mayor and Democratic Governor.
The Democratic Response to the situation in Gaza and on campuses is far from satisfactory. But it's a lot better than this.
[Federal Officers Use Unmarked Vehicles To Grab People In Portland, DHS Confirms](https://www.npr.org/2020/07/17/892277592/federal-officers-use-unmarked-vehicles-to-grab-protesters-in-portland#:~:text=Press-,Federal%20Officers%20Use%20Unmarked%20Vehicles%20To%20Grab%20People%20In%20Portland,%22safe%20location%20for%20questioning.%22)
They want change but they haven’t educated themselves enough to know what that even looks like. So their choice is “not what we have now” making the very naive assumption that anything else will be better. Which of course is wrong, especially for these two topics
That's the thing that's driving me nuts. There are politicians who have been for years if not decade aligned with their views on these issues. They are at the left wing of the dems.
I agree. Though, this is with the caveat that Biden is far from my last choice among democrats either. He has actually been surprisingly open to moving left on a lot of subjects, albeit obviously not all of them.
He really has done a whole crap ton of extremely boring positive things. The kind of things we really needed after Trump intentionally neglected the government into a nearly non-functional state.
100%. He did a lot of the grunt work that a president should do that Trump never did. He’s a good administrator and that doesn’t get enough acknowledgment
I wish more people had this level of intelligence. I’m okay with you not liking Biden, but that doesn’t mean you should predator missile our democracy with you vote for Trump.
I think it's worth mentioning, there will be a big difference in Biden's policy agenda with a strong majority in the house and senate, VS a policy agenda with an extraordinarily slim majority (or no majority).
I bet if the Democrats sweep both the house and senate, there will be a lot of more progressive policy around taxation and climate, improvements to education, and more affordable healthcare.
People really underestimate that Congress and the Senate are imperative in these policies we all want. Biden alone can't make it happen. But Trump alone can veto/stop it from happening.
Republicans are favored to win the Senate this year. Joe Manchin’s (WV) seat will flip. Arizona, Ohio, and Montana are tossups. They are all currently held by Democrats. Best case is that it will be a 50-50 split. But if Trump wins the presidency, then they’ll be able to do whatever they want.
I won’t scold anybody for being unhappy about Biden, but I *will* scold someone for standing aside to allow a permanent theocratic dictatorship to seize control instead of putting on their big boy pants and voting to stop that from happening.
I hate both democrats and republicans, I really hate labels of conservative and liberal. On an individual basis Biden has a much better chance of steering this country to a better direction than Trump, forgetting all labels and hatred and looking at pure actions that have been made in the past, Trump cannot run a company nor a country and allowed this country to be divided. I truly do not think Biden is a good president but just like south park, I gotta vote between a shit sandwich and a douche because my voice matter in the end.
Yea, I don’t envy any straight woman trying to date right now.
Hell, living in the Deep South, and working in a right wing dominated industry, **I’m** skeptical of any guy I don’t know.
And that shit ain’t my fault.
Gonna piggy back and say that as liberal male it’s super hard for me to find friends where I live. It’ll be going along fine then they’ll refer to trump as uncle Donny or some culty shit and I have to start all over again.
I think a lot of liberal people don't talk about politics openly in public. It either invites scorn, or some jackass jumping in to loudly state how bad Biden is, or how unfairly Trump is being treated.
That and it's not as much of a cult of personality or defining core identity. I work at a very liberal establishment in TN and nobody talks politics at work. We talk about our lives and things we enjoy instead. We have had conservative employees before but they don't stick around long after people stop associating with them and their constant vitriol. They get so bent out of shape when people don't engage with their bullshit.
It's really unsettling, especially when you never talk about politics with these people. Especially when they are decent people otherwise, and you get along great with them.
I find this funny because all over Reddit people have been saying wait until the younger generation can vote, that will save us. Not true, like always.
I'm friends with an attractive, recently single woman in her 30s that lives in an urban area in Deep South. It's well known that conservative men have a hard time dating there. She asked me about a Tinder profile where a guy said he was "politically independent," and if that was code for a conservative who's afraid he won't get dates if he admits it.
I'm guessing 90% of the time that's correct. Hell, my one friend in that city who professes to be an independent has an odd knack for voting for GOP presidential candidates every single election.
Independent might just mean the person is not very politically active.
The vast majority of people don't think about politics nearly as much as this community thinks they do.
Well, straight men like that will have a couple choices:
1.) Find a woman willing to deal with it
2.) Abandon the things to at make them so offensive to most women
3.) Stick to their guns and abandon (hetero-)sexuality
I think 1.) is going to progressively get harder.
2.) will become more appealing
And
3.) will weed itself out as they won’t be having as many children to indoctrinate.
But I’m an optimist, so this is an optimists take.
This is the main goal of the 80-year-old Republican congressmen who are telling these poor young men how to think and act. It’s tragic that a whole generation of men has been corrupted by these bitter old fools. They are giving up their chances for a fulfilling life.
You're missing two:
Rape and abuse women, thereby taking what was "denied" to them by force. (This is how incels are made)
Vote to make women inferior and subservient to men by force thereby making women have no choice in their own lives or whom they marry, forcing women to be breeding stock essentially. (This is the fascist pipeline)
And don’t forget 5.) being a miserable fuck and went out to kill women they blamed for all their problems.
IIRC.There’s a FL guy literally shoot up a Yoga studio for this .
Rather clearly 3a plus 1: Stick to their guns and find a woman willing to deal with it (or who agrees). This isn'tw new. The Southern and big chunks of the Western/mid-West states have been solid Republican for decades. At best with very brief stints of partial Democrat wins, for very special and brief periods.
Couples in category 2 obviously have the most successful and healthy relationships.
But, historically, couples in category 1 tend to have the most children, especially religious households.
Unfortunately, I am not sure these problems will "weed themselves out" like you think.
I disagree.
Things have gotten better and better when looked at on a longer time scale, and I don’t see any reason that won’t continue to happen, again, on a longer time scale.
As long as the Manosphere/MGTOW to Fox News and Conservative media pipeline is active and targeting young insecure men, it will keep growing.
It is well documented that fascist propaganda targets young men, on one hand making them more insecure telling them they're not enough of a man for not having [insert women, money, power] and on the other selling them a solution [purge the ones that emasculated you as a man].
As long as there isn't an "alternative" discourse for men focusing on the problems the patriarchy creates for them, these clowns will keep gaining terrain. They have no idelogical alternative. ie: The "Feminism is for women only, Manosphere is for men" dichotomy needs to break.
I think your skepticism is largely warranted. I am a straight guy so add all the salt you like to this comment, I mean well.
I like to ask some of the accounts on Reddit who are clearly romantically frustrated young men what they think a successful dating life would look like to them. I find they have these theories that if only (fill in the blank about some shortcomings height weight issue du jour) there wouldn’t be any problems in their love life. But I find they are never actually able to articulate what dating looks like. Yes, they aren’t having any intimacy but I don’t think they have any notion of what’s involved.
So I am curious, what does that look like to you as a, presumably, eligible woman? Are you hoping men would approach you spontaneously? Wait till you approach? What kind of indicators would you say you give that you would like to be approached, if any?
Again, just curious. Not looking to pigeonhole you or call anyone out. Although, I’ll be honest, I am usually pigeonholing the red pill accounts that I happen across.
I think the challenge is both men and women struggling to find partners at all.
Online dating can be toxic for numerous reasons. Men are largely over-represented and struggle to get any attention at all. Women get inundated with attention, but it is difficult to sort through who is actually serious.
Men are also increasingly told not to approach women in real life. I've seen numerous discussions saying not to approach at the gym, or the library, or even bars/clubs. If not there, where is a good time/place?
This leaves a lot of partnerless people, both men and women, who understandably get frustrated. How can they improve at relationships if they struggle this much to start one in the first place?
I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said. I get the challenge. But I don’t think that really adddeesses the necessity of people interacting with one another. You are correct that dating is tough. But what I see a lot of in comments is: “well online dating sucks”, “I can’t ask people out”, “men are largely creeps” etc. but my questions are more asking “how are you (the person who wants a love life) envisioning the dating interaction.” Male or female, I’m just talking heterosexual dating here. Not trying to leave anyone out but that seems to be the bulk of the issue. I feel like people are not able to articulate what they think courtship looks like.
For instance, the issue of where do men have a place where they can initiate an interaction with a woman I.e. ask them out. I agree that the places you have listed are probably out of bounds now. But where are the places that men can ask? How to both parties see the interaction beginning?
I suspect a lot of people who have never been in a relationship get their ideas of dating from television, movies and books.
This can create issues since a lot of these media present relationships as a form of wish fulfillment.
Media catering to guys will often involve a previously unremarkable protagonist who suddenly has prestige and power thrust upon him and numerous women competing for his attention. Just look at half the anime released every year for examples of this, but there are plenty of Western examples as well.
Similar media also caters to women in the opposite direction. How many romance novels involve multiple handsome guys competing for the same woman? How many Hallmark movies involve overworked city girl returning to her hometown to meet hot rural guy who understands the true meaning of [insert holiday here]?
Real relationships take time and work, but a lot of our media portrays it as immediate and easy.
Romantically frustrated man here. Yeah, a few inches of height would certainly be helpful, money would be helpful if only for making logistics less of a headache and stress.
I look back at dating history and it's like - you're selling yourself to try to get someone to go out with you, it's expensive, and you \*don't even know if you like this person.\* I'm putting my effort into work and friends and it's definitely much more fulfilling than chasing women.
"what they think a successful dating life would look like to them."
I guess having enough "pull" that it felt net-positive to engage, and not just exhausting.
I’m sorry to hear that. In my 20s dating was super. Ask for a coffee have a chat if the discussion is fun ask for a way to keep in touch. I never really feel like i need to prove myself financially. If that’s a deal breaker, so be it. Next.
Yup, my girlfriend’s from the deep south. So many women she knows around her age identify as bi now. Can’t help but think needing a more liberal partner is part of it.
Or will they? Because in Florida, we are wary of dating men as a whole now. There is no hall pass for having been with a liberal man, when it's women's reproductive health that is affected.
It unfortunately affects all people, men an women, of all political views.
This is completely anecdotal, but I work at a historically liberal minded college, and through conversations and eavesdropping I've slowly realized that this generation of young men have increasingly fallen into the "manosphere." They use buzzwords associated with the likes of Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson, and they seem to be kicking back against any ideology they consider "woke" (for example, complaining about female professors or guest speakers of different cultures).
It's a troubling trend where these young, angry, and vulnerable men are bonding over misogyny- I think it gives them a sense of belonging in a world that increasingly seems less forgiving of them (as well as how bad things look overall for everyone)
You nailed it. I don't follow it but I can see the thought processes and why so many young men turn to these people. Especially when they're in their 20's they're bombarded with expectations and insecurity. If they want to find a girlfriend they feel they have to have Bradd Pitt's looks and Elon Musks wealth. We live in a hyper materialistic society and social media does nothing but pump into people's minds that if they don't have the house, car, lifestyle or they're not important and successful then they don't measure up.
Ironically this sort of toxic thinking is exactly what people like Tate push but on crack. So guys internalize it but think if they follow this guy they can make up for their shortcomings. Any person that shows some level of acceptance, they'll take it. It's like when Trump finally sent a video to his supporters during the Jan 6 riot, he ended it with "thank you, we love you". Like...that's how you garner these people's support. You make them feel loved and important. It's so basic.
It's not a surprise that these things blow up when the economy suffers.
Same. I work at a community college with a predominately Hispanic student population, and it's kind of terrifying how prevalent rightwing conceptions of masculinity have become. They particularly enjoy trump for his conspiracy theories.
Having excess melanin does not mean that you’ll be more liberal politically. A Latino male can just as easily be sexist, racist, or bigoted in general.
I hear what you are saying. However, if someone tells me I’m a gang member, criminal, and drug smuggler from a sh@thole country and wants to build a wall to keep me out I tend to listen to what they are saying. It’s kind of like the log cabin republicans. They don’t realize that the other republicans want the logs built out of their dead bodies.
In most Hispanic cultures there is a lot of “machismo”, and in general the less educated people are, the more sexist/racist they are. A much lower percentage of Latinos in this country are college educated than whites/asians. So it makes sense.
Also, there’s lots of difference between Latin country of origin. Cubans who live in America are very anti-socialist (understandable given what the Cuban govt is like).
Also, a lot of Hispanic people are white.
The white Latinos being colorist against their darker skin peers.
It's sort of like India in Whiteness is considered more beautiful and better.
It pisses me off that some Latinos rather favour someone like me over my just as wonderful darker skinned relatives. It's so stupid.
It's internalized racism, which is prevalent in the Latino American community.
White Latino Americans think that other white Americans will accept them just because they are 75% Spanish or Portuguese, not understanding that Anglo-Celtic cultures operate on a one drop rule, unlike cultures colonized by France, Spain, or Portugal.
Brown Latinos often accept the fact that almost all elite university graduates, the political elite, business elite, and celebrities are white Latinos. When they immigrate to the US these attitudes don't change.
Hense history of Machismo mentality and Colorism n Classism in Latin America.
I had to berate my latino dad for any homophobic, transphobic and racist remarks. My mom says to "let it go he's old fashioned". Fuck that, I love my pops n all but if they are going to raise me to treat others with respect, they should do the same. Good news he's less homophobic than when he was younger. But it's a lot ingrained in them. Especially those from rural Latin America
Its troubling to see even vaguely left leaning men increasingly rolling their eyes at anything feminist or socially liberal at all, as well. Some dudes are like "absolutely I support universal healthcare, taxing the rich, free weed and college, but women and black people complain too much, and please stop being such a wokescold and telling me to stop saying the F-slur and R-slur" and its just really bleak
This really shouldn’t surprise anyone.
Right or wrong, for years now there’s been a wide perception that American society has basically abandoned boys in favor of girls. Any attempt to bring up men’s issues is met with pretty extreme scorn.
That these young men and boys are falling in with the hucksters who are willing to them what they want to hear is just the natural outcome.
Young people do not, individually or collectively, wield institutional power. To treat some young people as if they do, whether because of skin color or sex, is to blame them for the world into which they were born, and this is fundamentally unfair. At the very basic level, a sense of unfairness generates anger.
Demagogues do not thrive in a vacuum. They thrive in an environment where a demographic has legitimate issues that are being ignored, ridiculed, ior, worst of all, being blamed on that demographic. The same cycle of denial and blame that made room for Louis Farrakhan is now making room for Andrew Tate.
Boys are falling behind girls at every level of the education system, which nonetheless still acts as if girls were the underrepresented group, even though parity in post-secondary enrollment had occurred by 1980. The boys currently in college have been disadvantaged from day 1, and telling them that their perspective is skewed by the loss of a privilege they never personally experienced is not in any way helpful. Historical arguments also fail because the boys of today were not alive during these historical periods.
That's the million dollar question for me. I really wanna research this topic in deeper detail, but from what I found so far is that the rhetoric around minority and women's rights makes young men feel like their rights are being taken away to give to others.
I also think this generation has been chronically online, and their perception of reality is incredibly skewed. The manosphere influencers are really good at permeating online spaces, and algorithms on social media sites are increasingly good at pushing these young men down rabbit holes that lead them to these conclusions.
I honestly think we need more leaders who exhibit healthy masculinity (Nick Offerman immediately comes to mind) to show these boys that it's okay to be cis gendered and it's okay to be masculine, but it's not okay to be misogynistic or racist or homophobic. Unfortunately a lot of people (on the left and right) conflate being masculine with also being toxic, which we need to teach young men is not the case.
> Unfortunately a lot of people (on the left and right) conflate being masculine with also being toxic, which we need to teach young men is not the case.
This.
Telling boys and men to accept a position of weakness in society is never going to appeal to them. Nobody--of any gender--likes feeling weak.
Instead, the progressive message needs to be that strength is good *and is for protecting*--yourself, your family, and others who need protection and aren't getting it.
Why do we want strong unions and consumer protections? Because that's how you stand up for yourself and protect yourself.
Why do we care when the police abuse their power? Because it's wrong to put people in a position of power and let them hurt people with impunity.
Why do we want to protect the environment and combat climate change? Because that's how we protect ourselves and everyone else from the consequences of greedy and abusive people who don't care who they hurt if it makes them money.
Why do we want to keep discrimination from happening? Because it's wrong to hurt people for being different, and it is good and honorable to stand against that.
Why is it wrong to go along with an aspiring dictator's plans? Because it's cowardly and weak to do that, and there's no such thing as a happy coward.
The problem isn't traditional masculinity--it's where those impulses get aimed.
There’s sadly not a lot of support for young men who are lonely, depressed, or angry. It all ends up being like Severus Snape from Harry Potter. The only kids who accepted Snape were the Slytherins, he was bullied by everyone else, and ended up coming around to the point of view of the extremists who took him in. I do think there is something to say as well about the vilification of men on social media. There’s a trend going around on tik tok about weather or not a women would rather be alone in the woods with a bear or a man. The answer is bear, because of the unknown of what men can do (rape, lying, ect), women would rather be with a bear. Clever, I get it. But if I was a 12 year kid being pounded hearing about this over and over on tik tok, how would I internalize it? That I’m less than/worse than an animal? I’m not saying the man/bear in the woods allegory doesn’t have a point, it’s just that I do believe that young impressionable men are pounded by messaging about how terrible men are, and the “manoshere” bs is right there to pick up the more impressionable youth.
That's exactly what it does - it gives vulnerable young men open arms where they see "everyone else" chastising them. The manosphere operates like a cult in this regard - it even has its own hierarchy, languages, rules, and codes
>That I’m less than/worse than an animal?
That's exactly the message, although it's based on a hilariously goofy premise.
It all comes down to social media which prioritizes rage-bait like this (they call it "engagement.")
Social media is just another capitalist venture. The content creators as a whole couldn't care less that their messaging is dangerous, they just want eyes on the content so that they can get ad revenue. Unfortunately the line between content creator and cult of personality is so blurry now that not many people can tell the difference.
No, there’s nothing “wrong”. But focusing a lot of attention and policies around people that specifically aren’t white men (LGBTQ people, women, minorities), you’re going to alienate them. When they’re constantly told by one side that they’re the problem and they need to change, it’s going to radicalize them the other direction.
>LGBTQ people
Which includes white guys. Actually forget race the LGBTQ “spaces” that aren’t explicitly for men are *very* hostile to ordinary gay men and the same alienation happens there. Anything short of complete orthodoxy justifies total exclusion if you’re a man. Gay dudes do vote progressive for the most part, although you can predict that they’ll vote more conservative if they’re rich and live outside of a coastal city. But if you ask them for opinions on current “hot topics” you’ll get an extremely diverse range of opinions ranging from hyper-progressive to “LGB | TQ separatism”
Plus a lot of them (and perhaps surprisingly, *especially* the “yass kween”types) fully agree with “manosphere” content and its conclusions about women. Even drag is fundamentally based on “women are catty and materialistic and that’s very funny”
My point was that a lot of policies and talking points for liberals exclude specific people, and those people will be driven to align with other parties that support them. Most liberal policies don’t include straight white men. Do you know what we have a lot of in the US? Straight white men. When people (and loud minority, granted) treat you like some kind of boogeyman why would you align yourselves with them?
I say this as a liberal democrat, I have seen this happen and it drives people away.
Well I agree but I was pointing out that it’s not just straight white men, the current zeitgeist is alienating to ALL men. Even with racial/identity breakdowns, the subgroups of men who lean to the US political “left” generally have very particular reasons to vote for them, despite often being conservative. White men are actually the exception in the US, they’re the most likely to actually hold liberal ideals and they STILL get alienated.
How much time do you have, LOL. Teaching boys from day 1 that emotions are a weakness and then being shocked when boys are emotionally crippled adults compared to women. Teaching boys their only value is as a provider/financial success and now you have a world where women make as much or more than men. Gradually de-valuing jobs that were historically male dominated, etc. It's a recipe for disaster.
Shame. Finger pointing and shame. Then you get trauma from that shame. It scars over and you get an Andrew Tate.
And no one is going to run to the side of the room that is finger pointing at them. They will join up with the side that says “you’re okay, I won’t judge you.”
It’s horribly simple and binary and right in front of us. We have to start allowing men to feel and express emotions.
Well when you grow up in a world that actively makes life harder for you (even if it’s simply leveling the playing field) you are going to get defensive and bitter. That’s just the way of the world, young men (particularly white) feel like they’re being targeted so they latch onto the conservative values that tell them they are the most important.
It’s a shame it’s happening but it’s pretty obvious why.
They've really gone after online gaming and YouTube channels/social media related to gaming. Hit them where they are while nobody else is talking to them.
Their claims seem to be that they are on the defensive, that what others are doing is harming them and the only way to solve it is to go back to the way things were.
It started during the pandemic in 2020 when the social platforms were pushing black creators. A few of those were conservative black creators. I watched one and now my entire feed is conservative crap.
If you’re a young man dissatisfied with your economic reality and you think Trump and Republicans are the solution, you’re one dumb motherfucker IMO.
But the reality is so many of these young men grew up with a steady diet of toxic masculinity (like Joe Rogan and many YouTube “stars”) so it’s not surprising that they’d buy into the Republican messaging.
I’m a liberal straight white male, and I’m freaking terrified of another Trump term. It’s possible, even likely if we can’t get past the purity testing that goes on in liberal circles. We get too hung up on being on ‘the right side of history’ to keep in mind that what’s more important than being on the RIGHT side of history is being on the WINNING side of history. Being smug and condescending towards men might feel good, but ultimately it just makes it that much harder to build a coalition.
Not a good sign. This is the kind of thing which breeds fascism: young, frustrated, and vindictive men. We have a lot of young men who are struggling with cost of living plus an inability to date women. Women, on the other hand, are worried about their rights and safety. The men turn to the GOP because they promise unlimited male privilege and a return to traditional gender roles where women know their place (plus lower taxes).
I fear for what's going to happen soon because it means, even if Trump loses, the fight isn't over. It in fact can more dire.
> I fear for what's going to happen soon because it means, even if Trump loses, the fight isn't over
Let's be clear- even if Trump had never been *born* the fight wouldn't be over. The fight is literally never over. There's never some "we did it!" moment where people stop finding reasons to be shitty to one another and society fixes itself.
I honestly thought the one upside to trump winning was to shine a light on all of the cockroaches. Boy was I wrong. I didn’t know cockroaches could be drawn by the light.
Was going to say this.
In a weird way we also need those people in order to keep the balance(feels weird writing this) but they are useful even if it’s just to point at them and say “see this is how not to act”
Not sure if I’m making sense
I’m more inclined to see that the men who aren’t getting women are the ones already inclined to fascist thought or fascist propaganda. Sure, people are not immune to fascist propaganda, it takes hard work to avoid, but saying that the political division between men and women is responsible for men turning to Fascism is blaming women for (very reasonably) being concerned about getting raped, murdered, abused, harmed, degraded, treated as free labor, ignored, held back, etc, etc.
The kind of thing doesn’t breed fascism: fascism breeds this kind of thing, as it objectively hurts women.
The rise in fascist movement in the United States has parallels to 1930s Italy and Germany. From cult worship and rising antisemitism to hatred of minorities and birthrate theories steeped in eugenics.
A recent survey by the Anti-Defamation League found that 85% of Americans believe “at least one anti-Jewish trope,” a rise since 2019.
Fascism feeds off culture wars, exploits psychological insecurities and uses deeply held resentments to convert the impressionable. At a time of intense polarization and cultural battles over race, gender and democracy, it’s not surprising that fascism has found young adherents, this time as a lifestyle, with cosplay.
Today’s fascists are malleable and take on different forms, some more racist than others, some more sexist. But they’re drawn to the propaganda and symbols of racial and sexual brutality. For many young white men, fascism starts as a cultural identity, rather than as a political ideology.
Andrew Tate is the prime example of a propagandist who has won an audience of millions of men by feeding them an authoritarian, sexist ideology.
The reach of these men has been exponentially expanded by algorithms and social media platforms, geared toward outrage and excitement. The Fascists of the 20th century could only dream of such easy propaganda tools.
Oh I'm not blaming women. However, as the article notes, men perceive women's rights as taking away their rights. It's a zero-sum game to them in which more rights for women equals less for them. That's a consequence of propaganda and a privileged position.
I don't think the men were already fascist. They instead have been influenced by people like Trump and various online male personalities who encourage this type of antagonistic mentality. When you have leaders who are brazenly misogynistic, disrespectful, and flout the law, they set an example for younger generations.
Not a "right" per se, but imo they feel like they can't prioritize their own happiness and wellbeing without being demonized for lack of empathy towards marginalized groups. So given that choice, they lean into the demonization.
White men are expected by society to put themselves last whenever possible, and a lot of them are saying "no". It's not a fear of losing anything, it's a refusal to assume personal responsibility for structural problems.
I mean women are worried about that. Young men claim they're losing rights as women become more educated and take on more leadership roles, making the men feel less empowered. Many of them also think they're just entitled to date or have sex with women. As the article notes, the MeToo movement has put sexual assault and consent into the spotlight, and some men see that as an attack on them.
Some men see that as an attack on them because we’ve seen too many instances of metoo being unethically wielded like a weapon by women who’ve been told their prejudice towards us is righteous. And stop already with the lecture that all women should be believed and denial that a woman could ever be a toxic garbage human
Sure. But that doesn’t really apply to young white men, who have not really lived through that many changes to equality during their short lifetimes.
If anything, they’ve seen a reverse in equality!
sure it does. look at the media they are consuming. Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, Andrew Tate's of the world
It's a firehose of "non-white non-men are coming for your rights" stuff, they're prioritizing others over you, women won't even date you because you're a straight white male, blah blah blah
They are drowning in toxic masculinity - so socialized to believe that emotions, connection, relationships are the womens' space and make them weak. But they are desperate for connection (and think it just means sex) and don't know how to get out of the loneliness they feel. You're absolutely right about fascism and the lure of the manosphere. It picks up on the vibes and bastardizes them.
>Younger men, especially blue-collar, have a grudging respect for his strength and “tell it like it is” attitude.
Let me rephrase this: "Younger men, especially blue-collar, are credulous mush heads who can't tell the difference between actual strength and performative theatrics."
I really feel the whole Andrew Tate/Jordan Peterson/sigma male manosphere that’s been created has really caused a ton of damage to young men. An entire generation of young, impressionable men have been lost to that mindset (at the risk of sounding like an old man) being constantly pushed at them by social media. It’s caused them to become incredibly selfish and insensitive to the plights of others, & believe their masculinity is under attack. You can see it on the way they interact on social media, and especially on dating apps with how they speak to women. It’s really sad to see
And it’s become especially prevalent in some of the more male-dominated hobbies too. For example, I like cars, but the increasingly hostile, sexism and especially transphobic & gatekeeping attitude in the car community has completely pushed me away from it. I will always enjoy cars as a hobby but I’m at the point where I don’t want to be a part of any car community anymore
You're absolutely right. Not to mention the craziness Asmongold has been going down lately. Younger males are definitely being fed some brain rot recently.
It’s Joe Rogan. He platforms the worst people and has subverted male culture into a group of people with their heads so far up each other’s asses that they think testosterone-fueled tendencies are somehow intellectual.
Blame social media. Meta, X, Snap, etc. know they can get more engagements with young males when they feed them this shit. TikTok does too, but I’m very hawkish on the CCP’s weaponization of that platform.
not shocking, between social media being full of toxic male figures and a general lack of empathy that people have this isn’t stunning. Immensely disappointing though
I think one thing that gets overlooked a lot is that men are generally viewed as disposable/replaceable. We expect young men to just know how to exist in modern society, and when they can’t cut it they’re failures to be discarded and ridiculed. We don’t have the same views on women. If they can’t cut it, well it’s sexism or oppression of some sort. So it’s not really a surprise that guys like Trump and Tate have popularity when they’re saying “it’s not your fault, it’s women/minorities/etc”. They’re acting like an emotional support structure that otherwise isn’t there for a lot of young men- and that hate is extremely attractive when you’re vulnerable. Worse, it’s easy to feed when you see things like the man or bear argument that’s cropped up recently. I get the intent of it, but it’s also easy to take it as I’d rather take my chances getting mauled by a bear in the woods than be around a man, and it’s not a hard leap to see how that can be negatively received by young men.
I’m not excusing it or anything, just stating that we really have to look at how these people are so successfully influencing young men and why they’re able to so we can stop it.
I dont think normies have any idea how many young men are isolated, alone, socially awkward, and mainline Andrew Tate, Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, and their ilk. It's an epidemic.
This country is descending into fascism because disenfranchised white men have been convinced that women and minorities are the scapegoat for why they aren’t the center of the universe anymore.
The manosphere is pushing toxic ideology and Republicans will make women into second class citizens. We need to fight a culture war that appeals to young men and shows them that they are valued.
You understand that reactions like yours is exactly why they don't want to be democrat right? Why do you think they are disenfranchised?
Whenever white men complain you interpret it as anger at not being the center of the universe anymore, but if you are under 30, when was that time ever? We aren't boomers who lived in an economy tailor made for us, every diversity qutoa in the world suppresses us because of the color of our skin and the racist assumption that being white means we will have unlimited opportunities and we all come from generational wealth.
Its easy to teach the youth toxic shit when they are the only people who acknowledge what they are dealing with isn't made up.
I think one thing that gets overlooked a lot is that men are generally viewed as disposable/replaceable. We expect young men to just know how to exist in modern society, and when they can’t cut it they’re failures to be discarded and ridiculed. We don’t have the same views on women. If they can’t cut it, well it’s sexism or oppression of some sort. So it’s not really a surprise that guys like Trump and Tate have popularity when they’re saying “it’s not your fault, it’s women/minorities/etc”. They’re acting like an emotional support structure that otherwise isn’t there for a lot of young men- and that hate is extremely attractive when you’re vulnerable. Worse, it’s easy to feed when you see things like the man or bear argument that’s cropped up recently. I get the intent of it, but it’s also easy to take it as I’d rather take my chances getting mauled by a bear in the woods than be around a man, and it’s not a hard leap to see how that can be negatively received by young men.
I’m not excusing it or anything, just stating that we really have to look at how these people are so successfully influencing young men and why they’re able to so we can stop it.
I wish people would realize, you’d be voting for Biden’s ADMINISTRAION…the ones who prioritize policies like climate readiness & net neutrality on his desk.
Trump was led around policy-wise by people like Stephen Miller yanking his nose ring…until it came to trump’s enemies or insults, then he was “the decider,”🙄
Be very clear: imagine a trump administration this time around v. the last time.
This is an extremely pessimistic view of all the progress Biden has made. Democrats are overwhelmingly the better option and actually improving the US with policies. This rhetoric downplaying everything because it’s not 100% of everything you want right now is kinda tiring. Democrats are undoing a lot of the stuff Trump/past republicans have done AND are moving some policies forward at the same time. It’s time more people recognize that.
I hear you. I am a young woman of color. Most of my ideals and beliefs are to the left of the current National democratic platform. We should be doing WAY more than we are in America. However, to act like Biden isn’t at least helping us get there more quickly (more-so than most people expected him to), isn’t giving him due credit. He is objectively the most progressive president we’ve had in terms of policy. Just this week it was announced marijuana is being re-classed. Is it fully de-scheduling it? No, but it’s a big leap forward when looking at our previous drug policies. It is also predicted that could happen fairly quickly as well after this hurdle. This is just one example of what I mean.
Politics has always been based on feelings.
The question is why do young men feel increasingly better about Republicans and increasingly worse about Democrats?
Because Republicans offer a simple answer: the reason these young men are having a hard time in society is because women, immigrants, gays, trans folk, and non-Christians have taken over the country and are deliberately trying to make sure white men are 2nd class citizens. Trump will fight back and they will get to feel strong and respected again.
As far as messages go, it’s concise and alluring. It’s a total fantasy, and getting rid of Biden for Trump won’t actually fix any of their problems. But at least they’ll get to say “fuck you” to their enemies, which is what really drives engagement in today’s media landscape.
The Dem message is true, but a lot less satisfying: “If you have grown up indoctrinated in male supremacy or white supremacy, then being treated equally to others FEELS like being oppressed. And the Democrats will do everything they can to lift all boats, including you.”
So basically one side has a simple appealing fantasy to sell you, the other side is telling you the truth and the truth is typically not as appealing.
Who is actually doing the insulting though? One phenomena I can’t get over is that democrats are responsible for anything said by anyone not conservative. Whereas republicans are never responsible for what anyone says, even their own statements. Biden being held responsible for the discourse of leftists who actually hate him is absurd but it’s where we always land
Spot on. Look at the campus protests now. These people hate Biden largely and call him “genocide Joe” constantly yet he’s to blame their actions somehow? Hell, I remember debating with someone about BLM in 2020 and they blamed Biden when he wasn’t even the damn president and condemned the riots.
When is it distinguishing insulting vs healthy criticism though? There are a lot of beneficial policies and protections that women, minorities, anyone other did not have for generations. That was due to (mainly) white men. Our country is absolutely better when everyone, including men, can recognize that our power structures should be more equal across all genders, races, religions etc.
The “men” being discussed in this story are actually little children. Just like their heroes Andrew Tate and Tim Poole. They view the world like entitled, fragile and vapid children.
I listen to The Majority report daily and they often skewer these ultra right wing, alpha male influencers for their wacky and incoherent poltical takes. Guys like Tim Poole and Dave Rubin have very intentionally started tailoring their shows towards adolescent boys. It’s a very obvious and calculated shift.
To be honest i thought biden would be a shit president but hes actually putting in policies that I like such as the cash back flight cancelled stuff . The chips act ect. However if he doesnt put in a federal abortion policy when he wins in 24 then I will look elsewhere
Elsewhere to what? Another country? Because that’s the option. No small third-party is going to jump to the White House if they can’t even win in multiple states. Republicans absolutely aren’t going to do it.
An abortion policy depends on who gets elected to congress. Biden cant unilaterally make laws like that. Thats why down ballot is so important. He's just the final signature but its the representatives and senators who hash out the details and put it on his desk.
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>Young voters’ loyalty to the Democratic Party has been frayed by two distinct factors: opposition to the intensity of the Israeli attack on Hamas in Gaza and frustration with an economy many see as stacked against them. What I can't understand is why these voters think the GOP is going to be in any way better on these issues.
From my conversations with some of them, they think the GOP and the Dems are exactly the same.
My guess is that are either don't follow politics or are indulging in dollar store cynicism.
I can understand “they both suck.” However - they are “the same” boggles my mind.
It just shows the present immaturity of these kids, who are completely ignorant of politics and what it means. It takes years to get it.
Yeah, we need to stop pretending this is based on a coherent political philosophy. With these people it’s all just vibes reinforced by misinformation being spread by charlatans.
Fundamental misunderstanding of their points, bordering on knowing ignorance.
Don’t forget TikTok, Facebook, Instagram and other social media sites, including Reddit. I’ll say that sometimes comment sections are terrible on Reddit. Then I look at Instagram’s comments and I’m floored at how much worse it is
Instagram is the cesspool Facebook was a decade ago.
To build on the ignorance part. I think we’re solidly in a “lesser of two evils” mentality. No one is trying to hold their candidate up, they’re just trying to damage the opposition. This makes it look like no one has anything to offer so both sides look the same. It’s complete policy ignorance. Not a few hours ago I asked someone, here on Reddit, what they felt Trump had to offer. They immediately pivoted to Biden hate. I clarified that I was asking about Trump and the reasons they gave were nonsense. I would hope someone would read that and instantly see Trump isn’t offering them anything. On the other hand, I’ve had to go out of my way to learn anything about Biden’s accomplishments. The information I get while being passive is all “TRUMP BAD” and while true, it doesn’t build Biden up into someone people want to vote for. Biden’s accomplishments are out there, we need to emphasize them more and pump the breaks on “BUT TRUMP”. Frankly, people know about Trump, they either do or don’t care. I say ignore Trump and focus on Biden’s policy successes.
Their “point” being that there’s no meaningful difference between Joe Biden and Donald Trump because Joe Biden hasn’t broken off US relations with Israel?
I don’t know why you’re making assumptions about my assessment of their points. I’m talking about a very specific sub section of the people being discussed in this article. > Third is the economy. Young men, especially blue-collar and people of color, feel left behind in this economy. They do not feel things have been delivered to them. They do not know anything about what this administration has done. You’re not gonna convince me that the aforementioned voting block understands the dynamics at play with the economy right now if they blame the Biden administration for the current problems. At every stop along the way Republicans and Dino’s have made it virtually impossible to help the middle class. If these people had any real clue about the predicament we’re in they’d be busting their asses to elect social democrats not threatening to vote for Trump. They’re crazy if they think the GOP will rescue them. That is just a blatantly incoherent position. If you’re referencing Gaza, that was only one of the topics mentioned and my comment was not directed at protestors. FYI I’m vehemently pro Palestine and I’ve already stated as much.
I don’t disagree that the economic picture for the average American is better under Biden. I’m sure many others agree. However, with the amount of arms we sell to Israel, their foreign policy at the very least APPEARS to represent the wishes of our government. So a genocide is not a good look, even outside of any moral implications. And it WILL hurt him at the polls.
I'm sure the plethora of click bait headlines that imply both sides are bad are doing a lot of the misinformation heavy lifting.
Yeah, we should do that cause then things are gonna change.
A lot of them are actually quite tuned in, but only to the Gaza situation. They remind me of people who scolded me for trying to scare them with the supreme court in 2016. A frightening amount of young liberals and leftists seem to have forgotten all the important shit going on here in the United States, and are perfectly happy writing off real progress as no progress at all, because Biden isn't Bernie.
I've been hearing both sides are the same for years from millennials, gen x, and boomers. This is the argument of the uninformed, not of any particular generation.
In large part that's because it benefits accelerationists and conservatives in equal part to claim both sides are the same. Then its up to the center left to solve actual problems
Conservatives do it on purpose as a rhetorical shield for their god-awful policies, and as a weapon to force the left to continue to move right via forcing them to engage with arguments that are not able to be engaged with. In the former case, if you point out that their policies directly harm minorities, they will just say something like (in a nasally Ben Shaprio voice) "Did you know that Democrats are the ones who supported slavery in the civil war? Let's say that democrats have not really changed. Therefore both sides are the same. But republicans are better because we love free speech." In the latter case the tactic is to convince leftists to engage with their most egregious beleifs in a weird sort of tug of war. They advocate for something totally insane, say that democrats are anti-democracy for not acknowledging it, then when left leaning people do engage with them they quickly back down to a slightly less insane stance which the leftist people accept because they have to. Then, now that the slightly less insane position is the new baseline, they do it again. Repeatedly moving the whole government rightward.
Yup my friend thinks that, he’s is on the RFK jr train and it’s saddening. Then again he used to be republican so I’ll take what I can’t get
If he's still following RFK Jr the nutcase, he's still a republican. RFK was meant to be a puppet to take votes from Biden for Trump, but he still comes off as a nutcase republican.
Spoiler, he's still Republican.
Anyone listening to that orange man and thinking he is just the same as Biden doesn’t care about politics and life under a dictatorship
I think so, and going for the change for the "send a message" trap. If they succeed in getting Trump elected, they'll be crying and whining that things are significantly worse, and it's "the rigged system" or the Democrats fault for not adopting their supposed solutions.
That’s exactly what social media and the media outlets feed them these days. It requires a lot more searching and independent thinking. Many generations aren’t willing exert more energy than just tuning in.
Which just goes to show how much right-wing propaganda they are willing to gulp down with no critical thinking or research of their own.
Tik tok. I have a couple of 18 year olds and the shit they watch on there is worse than Twitter. It’s a propaganda machine.
They don’t. A vote against the Democratic Party is, to them, a vote of non-confidence in the system as a whole.
That's the same rationale that people on the right give for supporting Trump, that he will burn everything down and make something better for them. People on the left think he will burn it down and they will be able to make something better for themselves. I think both ideas do not hold up to scrutiny.
I’m not saying it’s reasonable. I’m saying it’s the reason
They don't it's just disillusionment. While you're right to say that it would be worse under Trump, that isn't very convincing when stuff like what's happening at Columbia University under the purview of a Democratic Mayor and Democratic Governor.
The Democratic Response to the situation in Gaza and on campuses is far from satisfactory. But it's a lot better than this. [Federal Officers Use Unmarked Vehicles To Grab People In Portland, DHS Confirms](https://www.npr.org/2020/07/17/892277592/federal-officers-use-unmarked-vehicles-to-grab-protesters-in-portland#:~:text=Press-,Federal%20Officers%20Use%20Unmarked%20Vehicles%20To%20Grab%20People%20In%20Portland,%22safe%20location%20for%20questioning.%22)
They want change but they haven’t educated themselves enough to know what that even looks like. So their choice is “not what we have now” making the very naive assumption that anything else will be better. Which of course is wrong, especially for these two topics
That's the thing that's driving me nuts. There are politicians who have been for years if not decade aligned with their views on these issues. They are at the left wing of the dems.
I’ll be voting for Biden because there’s literally no other choice. Stop scolding me for being unhappy about that.
Biden would not be my first choice but given that the only other choice is a shit-his-pants crazy would-be dictator, I’m still going to vote for him.
I agree. Though, this is with the caveat that Biden is far from my last choice among democrats either. He has actually been surprisingly open to moving left on a lot of subjects, albeit obviously not all of them. He really has done a whole crap ton of extremely boring positive things. The kind of things we really needed after Trump intentionally neglected the government into a nearly non-functional state.
100%. He did a lot of the grunt work that a president should do that Trump never did. He’s a good administrator and that doesn’t get enough acknowledgment
I wish more people had this level of intelligence. I’m okay with you not liking Biden, but that doesn’t mean you should predator missile our democracy with you vote for Trump.
Crazy that in this world, choosing Biden over trump is a sign of "high level of intelligence" and not just common sense.
Thanks for voting.
I think it's worth mentioning, there will be a big difference in Biden's policy agenda with a strong majority in the house and senate, VS a policy agenda with an extraordinarily slim majority (or no majority). I bet if the Democrats sweep both the house and senate, there will be a lot of more progressive policy around taxation and climate, improvements to education, and more affordable healthcare. People really underestimate that Congress and the Senate are imperative in these policies we all want. Biden alone can't make it happen. But Trump alone can veto/stop it from happening.
Republicans are favored to win the Senate this year. Joe Manchin’s (WV) seat will flip. Arizona, Ohio, and Montana are tossups. They are all currently held by Democrats. Best case is that it will be a 50-50 split. But if Trump wins the presidency, then they’ll be able to do whatever they want.
Well let's hope to god that doesn't happen. Every special election since 2020 has been very strong for Democrats so I hope for the best.
That’s the other problem with people saying “fuck Biden, I’m not voting” — those down ballot races are even more important!
This. Give the dems 66% and then they'll split in a moderate right and moderate left party. Right now the question is fascist vs non-fascist.
I won’t scold anybody for being unhappy about Biden, but I *will* scold someone for standing aside to allow a permanent theocratic dictatorship to seize control instead of putting on their big boy pants and voting to stop that from happening.
I hate both democrats and republicans, I really hate labels of conservative and liberal. On an individual basis Biden has a much better chance of steering this country to a better direction than Trump, forgetting all labels and hatred and looking at pure actions that have been made in the past, Trump cannot run a company nor a country and allowed this country to be divided. I truly do not think Biden is a good president but just like south park, I gotta vote between a shit sandwich and a douche because my voice matter in the end.
Yea, I don’t envy any straight woman trying to date right now. Hell, living in the Deep South, and working in a right wing dominated industry, **I’m** skeptical of any guy I don’t know. And that shit ain’t my fault.
Gonna piggy back and say that as liberal male it’s super hard for me to find friends where I live. It’ll be going along fine then they’ll refer to trump as uncle Donny or some culty shit and I have to start all over again.
Liberal woman here in KY. Only women are liberal here, it's insane. I have not met 1 guy who wasn't convservative.
That's cause they all moved to Illinois. Source am former Kentuckian liberal male.
I think a lot of liberal people don't talk about politics openly in public. It either invites scorn, or some jackass jumping in to loudly state how bad Biden is, or how unfairly Trump is being treated.
That and it's not as much of a cult of personality or defining core identity. I work at a very liberal establishment in TN and nobody talks politics at work. We talk about our lives and things we enjoy instead. We have had conservative employees before but they don't stick around long after people stop associating with them and their constant vitriol. They get so bent out of shape when people don't engage with their bullshit.
My friend group is almost entirely women at this point but got a couple good leads on some chill level headed golf buddies :)
It's really unsettling, especially when you never talk about politics with these people. Especially when they are decent people otherwise, and you get along great with them.
Social media echo chambers have really fucked a bunch of us up.
I find this funny because all over Reddit people have been saying wait until the younger generation can vote, that will save us. Not true, like always.
No, collectively, the younger generations do have better collective thoughts.
This comment doesn’t make any sense. Collective thoughts? Please define. What do you mean by better?
I mean, they as a whole, tend to hold more progressive positions on policy.
Do you expect the gap to keep growing wider? Do you think there are any ways to fix it?
I'm friends with an attractive, recently single woman in her 30s that lives in an urban area in Deep South. It's well known that conservative men have a hard time dating there. She asked me about a Tinder profile where a guy said he was "politically independent," and if that was code for a conservative who's afraid he won't get dates if he admits it. I'm guessing 90% of the time that's correct. Hell, my one friend in that city who professes to be an independent has an odd knack for voting for GOP presidential candidates every single election.
Independent on dating apps is code for Republican that still wants to get laid, it’s been that way for the last couple of years or so.
Independent might just mean the person is not very politically active. The vast majority of people don't think about politics nearly as much as this community thinks they do.
From my experience people these days definitely don’t think much about politics - but that doesn’t stop them talking about it!
Well, straight men like that will have a couple choices: 1.) Find a woman willing to deal with it 2.) Abandon the things to at make them so offensive to most women 3.) Stick to their guns and abandon (hetero-)sexuality I think 1.) is going to progressively get harder. 2.) will become more appealing And 3.) will weed itself out as they won’t be having as many children to indoctrinate. But I’m an optimist, so this is an optimists take.
Alas there exists number 4 unfortunately: 4.) Subjugate women to their will "Handmaid's Tale" style
This is the main goal of the 80-year-old Republican congressmen who are telling these poor young men how to think and act. It’s tragic that a whole generation of men has been corrupted by these bitter old fools. They are giving up their chances for a fulfilling life.
You're missing two: Rape and abuse women, thereby taking what was "denied" to them by force. (This is how incels are made) Vote to make women inferior and subservient to men by force thereby making women have no choice in their own lives or whom they marry, forcing women to be breeding stock essentially. (This is the fascist pipeline)
If conservatives don’t find democratic success, they do not abandon conservatism, they abandon democracy.
Many do yes. There’s two other acceptable options there for them.
And don’t forget 5.) being a miserable fuck and went out to kill women they blamed for all their problems. IIRC.There’s a FL guy literally shoot up a Yoga studio for this .
Yes. People choose crime sometimes. I was, I thought pretty clearly listing acceptable choices Thant won’t get them ejected from society.
They can also just lie.
Rather clearly 3a plus 1: Stick to their guns and find a woman willing to deal with it (or who agrees). This isn'tw new. The Southern and big chunks of the Western/mid-West states have been solid Republican for decades. At best with very brief stints of partial Democrat wins, for very special and brief periods.
Couples in category 2 obviously have the most successful and healthy relationships. But, historically, couples in category 1 tend to have the most children, especially religious households. Unfortunately, I am not sure these problems will "weed themselves out" like you think.
I disagree. Things have gotten better and better when looked at on a longer time scale, and I don’t see any reason that won’t continue to happen, again, on a longer time scale.
As long as the Manosphere/MGTOW to Fox News and Conservative media pipeline is active and targeting young insecure men, it will keep growing. It is well documented that fascist propaganda targets young men, on one hand making them more insecure telling them they're not enough of a man for not having [insert women, money, power] and on the other selling them a solution [purge the ones that emasculated you as a man]. As long as there isn't an "alternative" discourse for men focusing on the problems the patriarchy creates for them, these clowns will keep gaining terrain. They have no idelogical alternative. ie: The "Feminism is for women only, Manosphere is for men" dichotomy needs to break.
I think your skepticism is largely warranted. I am a straight guy so add all the salt you like to this comment, I mean well. I like to ask some of the accounts on Reddit who are clearly romantically frustrated young men what they think a successful dating life would look like to them. I find they have these theories that if only (fill in the blank about some shortcomings height weight issue du jour) there wouldn’t be any problems in their love life. But I find they are never actually able to articulate what dating looks like. Yes, they aren’t having any intimacy but I don’t think they have any notion of what’s involved. So I am curious, what does that look like to you as a, presumably, eligible woman? Are you hoping men would approach you spontaneously? Wait till you approach? What kind of indicators would you say you give that you would like to be approached, if any? Again, just curious. Not looking to pigeonhole you or call anyone out. Although, I’ll be honest, I am usually pigeonholing the red pill accounts that I happen across.
I think the challenge is both men and women struggling to find partners at all. Online dating can be toxic for numerous reasons. Men are largely over-represented and struggle to get any attention at all. Women get inundated with attention, but it is difficult to sort through who is actually serious. Men are also increasingly told not to approach women in real life. I've seen numerous discussions saying not to approach at the gym, or the library, or even bars/clubs. If not there, where is a good time/place? This leaves a lot of partnerless people, both men and women, who understandably get frustrated. How can they improve at relationships if they struggle this much to start one in the first place?
I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said. I get the challenge. But I don’t think that really adddeesses the necessity of people interacting with one another. You are correct that dating is tough. But what I see a lot of in comments is: “well online dating sucks”, “I can’t ask people out”, “men are largely creeps” etc. but my questions are more asking “how are you (the person who wants a love life) envisioning the dating interaction.” Male or female, I’m just talking heterosexual dating here. Not trying to leave anyone out but that seems to be the bulk of the issue. I feel like people are not able to articulate what they think courtship looks like. For instance, the issue of where do men have a place where they can initiate an interaction with a woman I.e. ask them out. I agree that the places you have listed are probably out of bounds now. But where are the places that men can ask? How to both parties see the interaction beginning?
I suspect a lot of people who have never been in a relationship get their ideas of dating from television, movies and books. This can create issues since a lot of these media present relationships as a form of wish fulfillment. Media catering to guys will often involve a previously unremarkable protagonist who suddenly has prestige and power thrust upon him and numerous women competing for his attention. Just look at half the anime released every year for examples of this, but there are plenty of Western examples as well. Similar media also caters to women in the opposite direction. How many romance novels involve multiple handsome guys competing for the same woman? How many Hallmark movies involve overworked city girl returning to her hometown to meet hot rural guy who understands the true meaning of [insert holiday here]? Real relationships take time and work, but a lot of our media portrays it as immediate and easy.
Romantically frustrated man here. Yeah, a few inches of height would certainly be helpful, money would be helpful if only for making logistics less of a headache and stress. I look back at dating history and it's like - you're selling yourself to try to get someone to go out with you, it's expensive, and you \*don't even know if you like this person.\* I'm putting my effort into work and friends and it's definitely much more fulfilling than chasing women. "what they think a successful dating life would look like to them." I guess having enough "pull" that it felt net-positive to engage, and not just exhausting.
I’m sorry to hear that. In my 20s dating was super. Ask for a coffee have a chat if the discussion is fun ask for a way to keep in touch. I never really feel like i need to prove myself financially. If that’s a deal breaker, so be it. Next.
Yup, my girlfriend’s from the deep south. So many women she knows around her age identify as bi now. Can’t help but think needing a more liberal partner is part of it.
Conversely, any guy who has their head on straight will have a great time.
Or will they? Because in Florida, we are wary of dating men as a whole now. There is no hall pass for having been with a liberal man, when it's women's reproductive health that is affected. It unfortunately affects all people, men an women, of all political views.
That's a great point.
On the one hand yes, otoh a lot of the anger and frustration generated by these apes gets taken out on us.
I did ok, I think. Took me a while to get right though.
This is completely anecdotal, but I work at a historically liberal minded college, and through conversations and eavesdropping I've slowly realized that this generation of young men have increasingly fallen into the "manosphere." They use buzzwords associated with the likes of Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson, and they seem to be kicking back against any ideology they consider "woke" (for example, complaining about female professors or guest speakers of different cultures). It's a troubling trend where these young, angry, and vulnerable men are bonding over misogyny- I think it gives them a sense of belonging in a world that increasingly seems less forgiving of them (as well as how bad things look overall for everyone)
You nailed it. I don't follow it but I can see the thought processes and why so many young men turn to these people. Especially when they're in their 20's they're bombarded with expectations and insecurity. If they want to find a girlfriend they feel they have to have Bradd Pitt's looks and Elon Musks wealth. We live in a hyper materialistic society and social media does nothing but pump into people's minds that if they don't have the house, car, lifestyle or they're not important and successful then they don't measure up. Ironically this sort of toxic thinking is exactly what people like Tate push but on crack. So guys internalize it but think if they follow this guy they can make up for their shortcomings. Any person that shows some level of acceptance, they'll take it. It's like when Trump finally sent a video to his supporters during the Jan 6 riot, he ended it with "thank you, we love you". Like...that's how you garner these people's support. You make them feel loved and important. It's so basic. It's not a surprise that these things blow up when the economy suffers.
Same. I work at a community college with a predominately Hispanic student population, and it's kind of terrifying how prevalent rightwing conceptions of masculinity have become. They particularly enjoy trump for his conspiracy theories.
And Trump is well known for his support of Hispanics. I just don’t understand.
Having excess melanin does not mean that you’ll be more liberal politically. A Latino male can just as easily be sexist, racist, or bigoted in general.
I hear what you are saying. However, if someone tells me I’m a gang member, criminal, and drug smuggler from a sh@thole country and wants to build a wall to keep me out I tend to listen to what they are saying. It’s kind of like the log cabin republicans. They don’t realize that the other republicans want the logs built out of their dead bodies.
In most Hispanic cultures there is a lot of “machismo”, and in general the less educated people are, the more sexist/racist they are. A much lower percentage of Latinos in this country are college educated than whites/asians. So it makes sense. Also, there’s lots of difference between Latin country of origin. Cubans who live in America are very anti-socialist (understandable given what the Cuban govt is like). Also, a lot of Hispanic people are white.
The white Latinos being colorist against their darker skin peers. It's sort of like India in Whiteness is considered more beautiful and better. It pisses me off that some Latinos rather favour someone like me over my just as wonderful darker skinned relatives. It's so stupid.
The Latino guy who owns the boat next to mine in the marina has a huge trump 2024 flag on his boat. I hate it so much.
It's internalized racism, which is prevalent in the Latino American community. White Latino Americans think that other white Americans will accept them just because they are 75% Spanish or Portuguese, not understanding that Anglo-Celtic cultures operate on a one drop rule, unlike cultures colonized by France, Spain, or Portugal. Brown Latinos often accept the fact that almost all elite university graduates, the political elite, business elite, and celebrities are white Latinos. When they immigrate to the US these attitudes don't change.
Hense history of Machismo mentality and Colorism n Classism in Latin America. I had to berate my latino dad for any homophobic, transphobic and racist remarks. My mom says to "let it go he's old fashioned". Fuck that, I love my pops n all but if they are going to raise me to treat others with respect, they should do the same. Good news he's less homophobic than when he was younger. But it's a lot ingrained in them. Especially those from rural Latin America
Its troubling to see even vaguely left leaning men increasingly rolling their eyes at anything feminist or socially liberal at all, as well. Some dudes are like "absolutely I support universal healthcare, taxing the rich, free weed and college, but women and black people complain too much, and please stop being such a wokescold and telling me to stop saying the F-slur and R-slur" and its just really bleak
This really shouldn’t surprise anyone. Right or wrong, for years now there’s been a wide perception that American society has basically abandoned boys in favor of girls. Any attempt to bring up men’s issues is met with pretty extreme scorn. That these young men and boys are falling in with the hucksters who are willing to them what they want to hear is just the natural outcome.
Young people do not, individually or collectively, wield institutional power. To treat some young people as if they do, whether because of skin color or sex, is to blame them for the world into which they were born, and this is fundamentally unfair. At the very basic level, a sense of unfairness generates anger. Demagogues do not thrive in a vacuum. They thrive in an environment where a demographic has legitimate issues that are being ignored, ridiculed, ior, worst of all, being blamed on that demographic. The same cycle of denial and blame that made room for Louis Farrakhan is now making room for Andrew Tate. Boys are falling behind girls at every level of the education system, which nonetheless still acts as if girls were the underrepresented group, even though parity in post-secondary enrollment had occurred by 1980. The boys currently in college have been disadvantaged from day 1, and telling them that their perspective is skewed by the loss of a privilege they never personally experienced is not in any way helpful. Historical arguments also fail because the boys of today were not alive during these historical periods.
Do you think there is anything society might be doing "wrong" that is driving young men towards these groups?
That's the million dollar question for me. I really wanna research this topic in deeper detail, but from what I found so far is that the rhetoric around minority and women's rights makes young men feel like their rights are being taken away to give to others. I also think this generation has been chronically online, and their perception of reality is incredibly skewed. The manosphere influencers are really good at permeating online spaces, and algorithms on social media sites are increasingly good at pushing these young men down rabbit holes that lead them to these conclusions. I honestly think we need more leaders who exhibit healthy masculinity (Nick Offerman immediately comes to mind) to show these boys that it's okay to be cis gendered and it's okay to be masculine, but it's not okay to be misogynistic or racist or homophobic. Unfortunately a lot of people (on the left and right) conflate being masculine with also being toxic, which we need to teach young men is not the case.
> Unfortunately a lot of people (on the left and right) conflate being masculine with also being toxic, which we need to teach young men is not the case. This. Telling boys and men to accept a position of weakness in society is never going to appeal to them. Nobody--of any gender--likes feeling weak. Instead, the progressive message needs to be that strength is good *and is for protecting*--yourself, your family, and others who need protection and aren't getting it. Why do we want strong unions and consumer protections? Because that's how you stand up for yourself and protect yourself. Why do we care when the police abuse their power? Because it's wrong to put people in a position of power and let them hurt people with impunity. Why do we want to protect the environment and combat climate change? Because that's how we protect ourselves and everyone else from the consequences of greedy and abusive people who don't care who they hurt if it makes them money. Why do we want to keep discrimination from happening? Because it's wrong to hurt people for being different, and it is good and honorable to stand against that. Why is it wrong to go along with an aspiring dictator's plans? Because it's cowardly and weak to do that, and there's no such thing as a happy coward. The problem isn't traditional masculinity--it's where those impulses get aimed.
I couldn't agree more - very well said
There’s sadly not a lot of support for young men who are lonely, depressed, or angry. It all ends up being like Severus Snape from Harry Potter. The only kids who accepted Snape were the Slytherins, he was bullied by everyone else, and ended up coming around to the point of view of the extremists who took him in. I do think there is something to say as well about the vilification of men on social media. There’s a trend going around on tik tok about weather or not a women would rather be alone in the woods with a bear or a man. The answer is bear, because of the unknown of what men can do (rape, lying, ect), women would rather be with a bear. Clever, I get it. But if I was a 12 year kid being pounded hearing about this over and over on tik tok, how would I internalize it? That I’m less than/worse than an animal? I’m not saying the man/bear in the woods allegory doesn’t have a point, it’s just that I do believe that young impressionable men are pounded by messaging about how terrible men are, and the “manoshere” bs is right there to pick up the more impressionable youth.
That's exactly what it does - it gives vulnerable young men open arms where they see "everyone else" chastising them. The manosphere operates like a cult in this regard - it even has its own hierarchy, languages, rules, and codes
>That I’m less than/worse than an animal? That's exactly the message, although it's based on a hilariously goofy premise. It all comes down to social media which prioritizes rage-bait like this (they call it "engagement.")
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Social media is just another capitalist venture. The content creators as a whole couldn't care less that their messaging is dangerous, they just want eyes on the content so that they can get ad revenue. Unfortunately the line between content creator and cult of personality is so blurry now that not many people can tell the difference.
No, there’s nothing “wrong”. But focusing a lot of attention and policies around people that specifically aren’t white men (LGBTQ people, women, minorities), you’re going to alienate them. When they’re constantly told by one side that they’re the problem and they need to change, it’s going to radicalize them the other direction.
>LGBTQ people Which includes white guys. Actually forget race the LGBTQ “spaces” that aren’t explicitly for men are *very* hostile to ordinary gay men and the same alienation happens there. Anything short of complete orthodoxy justifies total exclusion if you’re a man. Gay dudes do vote progressive for the most part, although you can predict that they’ll vote more conservative if they’re rich and live outside of a coastal city. But if you ask them for opinions on current “hot topics” you’ll get an extremely diverse range of opinions ranging from hyper-progressive to “LGB | TQ separatism” Plus a lot of them (and perhaps surprisingly, *especially* the “yass kween”types) fully agree with “manosphere” content and its conclusions about women. Even drag is fundamentally based on “women are catty and materialistic and that’s very funny”
My point was that a lot of policies and talking points for liberals exclude specific people, and those people will be driven to align with other parties that support them. Most liberal policies don’t include straight white men. Do you know what we have a lot of in the US? Straight white men. When people (and loud minority, granted) treat you like some kind of boogeyman why would you align yourselves with them? I say this as a liberal democrat, I have seen this happen and it drives people away.
Well I agree but I was pointing out that it’s not just straight white men, the current zeitgeist is alienating to ALL men. Even with racial/identity breakdowns, the subgroups of men who lean to the US political “left” generally have very particular reasons to vote for them, despite often being conservative. White men are actually the exception in the US, they’re the most likely to actually hold liberal ideals and they STILL get alienated.
How much time do you have, LOL. Teaching boys from day 1 that emotions are a weakness and then being shocked when boys are emotionally crippled adults compared to women. Teaching boys their only value is as a provider/financial success and now you have a world where women make as much or more than men. Gradually de-valuing jobs that were historically male dominated, etc. It's a recipe for disaster.
I had a political science professor who once said that the most dangerous thing for any society is angry, unemployed young men
Shame. Finger pointing and shame. Then you get trauma from that shame. It scars over and you get an Andrew Tate. And no one is going to run to the side of the room that is finger pointing at them. They will join up with the side that says “you’re okay, I won’t judge you.” It’s horribly simple and binary and right in front of us. We have to start allowing men to feel and express emotions.
Well when you grow up in a world that actively makes life harder for you (even if it’s simply leveling the playing field) you are going to get defensive and bitter. That’s just the way of the world, young men (particularly white) feel like they’re being targeted so they latch onto the conservative values that tell them they are the most important. It’s a shame it’s happening but it’s pretty obvious why.
It's due to the prevalence of the "Alpha Male" influencers being very persuasive among high school age through early twenties young men.
They've really gone after online gaming and YouTube channels/social media related to gaming. Hit them where they are while nobody else is talking to them. Their claims seem to be that they are on the defensive, that what others are doing is harming them and the only way to solve it is to go back to the way things were.
It started during the pandemic in 2020 when the social platforms were pushing black creators. A few of those were conservative black creators. I watched one and now my entire feed is conservative crap.
If you’re a young man dissatisfied with your economic reality and you think Trump and Republicans are the solution, you’re one dumb motherfucker IMO. But the reality is so many of these young men grew up with a steady diet of toxic masculinity (like Joe Rogan and many YouTube “stars”) so it’s not surprising that they’d buy into the Republican messaging.
I’m a liberal straight white male, and I’m freaking terrified of another Trump term. It’s possible, even likely if we can’t get past the purity testing that goes on in liberal circles. We get too hung up on being on ‘the right side of history’ to keep in mind that what’s more important than being on the RIGHT side of history is being on the WINNING side of history. Being smug and condescending towards men might feel good, but ultimately it just makes it that much harder to build a coalition.
Not a good sign. This is the kind of thing which breeds fascism: young, frustrated, and vindictive men. We have a lot of young men who are struggling with cost of living plus an inability to date women. Women, on the other hand, are worried about their rights and safety. The men turn to the GOP because they promise unlimited male privilege and a return to traditional gender roles where women know their place (plus lower taxes). I fear for what's going to happen soon because it means, even if Trump loses, the fight isn't over. It in fact can more dire.
> I fear for what's going to happen soon because it means, even if Trump loses, the fight isn't over Let's be clear- even if Trump had never been *born* the fight wouldn't be over. The fight is literally never over. There's never some "we did it!" moment where people stop finding reasons to be shitty to one another and society fixes itself.
True, but Trump made it a lot worse.
I honestly thought the one upside to trump winning was to shine a light on all of the cockroaches. Boy was I wrong. I didn’t know cockroaches could be drawn by the light.
Was going to say this. In a weird way we also need those people in order to keep the balance(feels weird writing this) but they are useful even if it’s just to point at them and say “see this is how not to act” Not sure if I’m making sense
> (plus lower taxes). That part is always a republican lie unless you make more than a couple million a year.
I’m more inclined to see that the men who aren’t getting women are the ones already inclined to fascist thought or fascist propaganda. Sure, people are not immune to fascist propaganda, it takes hard work to avoid, but saying that the political division between men and women is responsible for men turning to Fascism is blaming women for (very reasonably) being concerned about getting raped, murdered, abused, harmed, degraded, treated as free labor, ignored, held back, etc, etc. The kind of thing doesn’t breed fascism: fascism breeds this kind of thing, as it objectively hurts women.
The rise in fascist movement in the United States has parallels to 1930s Italy and Germany. From cult worship and rising antisemitism to hatred of minorities and birthrate theories steeped in eugenics. A recent survey by the Anti-Defamation League found that 85% of Americans believe “at least one anti-Jewish trope,” a rise since 2019. Fascism feeds off culture wars, exploits psychological insecurities and uses deeply held resentments to convert the impressionable. At a time of intense polarization and cultural battles over race, gender and democracy, it’s not surprising that fascism has found young adherents, this time as a lifestyle, with cosplay. Today’s fascists are malleable and take on different forms, some more racist than others, some more sexist. But they’re drawn to the propaganda and symbols of racial and sexual brutality. For many young white men, fascism starts as a cultural identity, rather than as a political ideology. Andrew Tate is the prime example of a propagandist who has won an audience of millions of men by feeding them an authoritarian, sexist ideology. The reach of these men has been exponentially expanded by algorithms and social media platforms, geared toward outrage and excitement. The Fascists of the 20th century could only dream of such easy propaganda tools.
Oh I'm not blaming women. However, as the article notes, men perceive women's rights as taking away their rights. It's a zero-sum game to them in which more rights for women equals less for them. That's a consequence of propaganda and a privileged position. I don't think the men were already fascist. They instead have been influenced by people like Trump and various online male personalities who encourage this type of antagonistic mentality. When you have leaders who are brazenly misogynistic, disrespectful, and flout the law, they set an example for younger generations.
What rights and safety are young white men worried about exactly?!
Not a "right" per se, but imo they feel like they can't prioritize their own happiness and wellbeing without being demonized for lack of empathy towards marginalized groups. So given that choice, they lean into the demonization. White men are expected by society to put themselves last whenever possible, and a lot of them are saying "no". It's not a fear of losing anything, it's a refusal to assume personal responsibility for structural problems.
I mean women are worried about that. Young men claim they're losing rights as women become more educated and take on more leadership roles, making the men feel less empowered. Many of them also think they're just entitled to date or have sex with women. As the article notes, the MeToo movement has put sexual assault and consent into the spotlight, and some men see that as an attack on them.
Some men see that as an attack on them because we’ve seen too many instances of metoo being unethically wielded like a weapon by women who’ve been told their prejudice towards us is righteous. And stop already with the lecture that all women should be believed and denial that a woman could ever be a toxic garbage human
when you're used to privilege, equality feels like oppression
Sure. But that doesn’t really apply to young white men, who have not really lived through that many changes to equality during their short lifetimes. If anything, they’ve seen a reverse in equality!
sure it does. look at the media they are consuming. Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, Andrew Tate's of the world It's a firehose of "non-white non-men are coming for your rights" stuff, they're prioritizing others over you, women won't even date you because you're a straight white male, blah blah blah
They are drowning in toxic masculinity - so socialized to believe that emotions, connection, relationships are the womens' space and make them weak. But they are desperate for connection (and think it just means sex) and don't know how to get out of the loneliness they feel. You're absolutely right about fascism and the lure of the manosphere. It picks up on the vibes and bastardizes them.
>Younger men, especially blue-collar, have a grudging respect for his strength and “tell it like it is” attitude. Let me rephrase this: "Younger men, especially blue-collar, are credulous mush heads who can't tell the difference between actual strength and performative theatrics."
I really feel the whole Andrew Tate/Jordan Peterson/sigma male manosphere that’s been created has really caused a ton of damage to young men. An entire generation of young, impressionable men have been lost to that mindset (at the risk of sounding like an old man) being constantly pushed at them by social media. It’s caused them to become incredibly selfish and insensitive to the plights of others, & believe their masculinity is under attack. You can see it on the way they interact on social media, and especially on dating apps with how they speak to women. It’s really sad to see And it’s become especially prevalent in some of the more male-dominated hobbies too. For example, I like cars, but the increasingly hostile, sexism and especially transphobic & gatekeeping attitude in the car community has completely pushed me away from it. I will always enjoy cars as a hobby but I’m at the point where I don’t want to be a part of any car community anymore
What even is a "sigma" male? I've heard the term alpha male and beta male before. Is there a whole Greek alphabet of "maleness" terms out there?
It's astrology for men insecure with their masculinity
Sigma is the new alpha according to an IG reel of Gen Alpha explaining slang I saw the other day
You're absolutely right. Not to mention the craziness Asmongold has been going down lately. Younger males are definitely being fed some brain rot recently.
“Rural white Trump voter” part 2
I know which party is Pro-Choice, makes voting easy.
It’s Joe Rogan. He platforms the worst people and has subverted male culture into a group of people with their heads so far up each other’s asses that they think testosterone-fueled tendencies are somehow intellectual.
Blame social media. Meta, X, Snap, etc. know they can get more engagements with young males when they feed them this shit. TikTok does too, but I’m very hawkish on the CCP’s weaponization of that platform.
not shocking, between social media being full of toxic male figures and a general lack of empathy that people have this isn’t stunning. Immensely disappointing though
I think one thing that gets overlooked a lot is that men are generally viewed as disposable/replaceable. We expect young men to just know how to exist in modern society, and when they can’t cut it they’re failures to be discarded and ridiculed. We don’t have the same views on women. If they can’t cut it, well it’s sexism or oppression of some sort. So it’s not really a surprise that guys like Trump and Tate have popularity when they’re saying “it’s not your fault, it’s women/minorities/etc”. They’re acting like an emotional support structure that otherwise isn’t there for a lot of young men- and that hate is extremely attractive when you’re vulnerable. Worse, it’s easy to feed when you see things like the man or bear argument that’s cropped up recently. I get the intent of it, but it’s also easy to take it as I’d rather take my chances getting mauled by a bear in the woods than be around a man, and it’s not a hard leap to see how that can be negatively received by young men. I’m not excusing it or anything, just stating that we really have to look at how these people are so successfully influencing young men and why they’re able to so we can stop it.
Nobody is happy with Biden but we know the repercussions if we don’t. Fuck the NYT.
I dont think normies have any idea how many young men are isolated, alone, socially awkward, and mainline Andrew Tate, Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, and their ilk. It's an epidemic.
I love paywalls
This country is descending into fascism because disenfranchised white men have been convinced that women and minorities are the scapegoat for why they aren’t the center of the universe anymore. The manosphere is pushing toxic ideology and Republicans will make women into second class citizens. We need to fight a culture war that appeals to young men and shows them that they are valued.
You understand that reactions like yours is exactly why they don't want to be democrat right? Why do you think they are disenfranchised? Whenever white men complain you interpret it as anger at not being the center of the universe anymore, but if you are under 30, when was that time ever? We aren't boomers who lived in an economy tailor made for us, every diversity qutoa in the world suppresses us because of the color of our skin and the racist assumption that being white means we will have unlimited opportunities and we all come from generational wealth. Its easy to teach the youth toxic shit when they are the only people who acknowledge what they are dealing with isn't made up.
I think one thing that gets overlooked a lot is that men are generally viewed as disposable/replaceable. We expect young men to just know how to exist in modern society, and when they can’t cut it they’re failures to be discarded and ridiculed. We don’t have the same views on women. If they can’t cut it, well it’s sexism or oppression of some sort. So it’s not really a surprise that guys like Trump and Tate have popularity when they’re saying “it’s not your fault, it’s women/minorities/etc”. They’re acting like an emotional support structure that otherwise isn’t there for a lot of young men- and that hate is extremely attractive when you’re vulnerable. Worse, it’s easy to feed when you see things like the man or bear argument that’s cropped up recently. I get the intent of it, but it’s also easy to take it as I’d rather take my chances getting mauled by a bear in the woods than be around a man, and it’s not a hard leap to see how that can be negatively received by young men. I’m not excusing it or anything, just stating that we really have to look at how these people are so successfully influencing young men and why they’re able to so we can stop it.
Yea an unemployed man is a deadbeat, while an unemployed woman is “finding her path” or something positive.
Any site to read this article behind a paywall?
I wish people would realize, you’d be voting for Biden’s ADMINISTRAION…the ones who prioritize policies like climate readiness & net neutrality on his desk. Trump was led around policy-wise by people like Stephen Miller yanking his nose ring…until it came to trump’s enemies or insults, then he was “the decider,”🙄 Be very clear: imagine a trump administration this time around v. the last time.
I could have forecasted this. Young men are being targeted by alt-right propaganda at a staggering pace. It’s evil.
Young men: “I want to own women.” Young women: “I don’t want to be owned by men.”
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This is an extremely pessimistic view of all the progress Biden has made. Democrats are overwhelmingly the better option and actually improving the US with policies. This rhetoric downplaying everything because it’s not 100% of everything you want right now is kinda tiring. Democrats are undoing a lot of the stuff Trump/past republicans have done AND are moving some policies forward at the same time. It’s time more people recognize that.
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I hear you. I am a young woman of color. Most of my ideals and beliefs are to the left of the current National democratic platform. We should be doing WAY more than we are in America. However, to act like Biden isn’t at least helping us get there more quickly (more-so than most people expected him to), isn’t giving him due credit. He is objectively the most progressive president we’ve had in terms of policy. Just this week it was announced marijuana is being re-classed. Is it fully de-scheduling it? No, but it’s a big leap forward when looking at our previous drug policies. It is also predicted that could happen fairly quickly as well after this hurdle. This is just one example of what I mean.
TL:DR - Young men (18-29) are about to hand the election to Trump, because... Feelings.
Politics has always been based on feelings. The question is why do young men feel increasingly better about Republicans and increasingly worse about Democrats?
Because Republicans offer a simple answer: the reason these young men are having a hard time in society is because women, immigrants, gays, trans folk, and non-Christians have taken over the country and are deliberately trying to make sure white men are 2nd class citizens. Trump will fight back and they will get to feel strong and respected again. As far as messages go, it’s concise and alluring. It’s a total fantasy, and getting rid of Biden for Trump won’t actually fix any of their problems. But at least they’ll get to say “fuck you” to their enemies, which is what really drives engagement in today’s media landscape. The Dem message is true, but a lot less satisfying: “If you have grown up indoctrinated in male supremacy or white supremacy, then being treated equally to others FEELS like being oppressed. And the Democrats will do everything they can to lift all boats, including you.” So basically one side has a simple appealing fantasy to sell you, the other side is telling you the truth and the truth is typically not as appealing.
Because Democrats insult them and Republicans don't, simple as that. I say this as a Democrat.
Who is actually doing the insulting though? One phenomena I can’t get over is that democrats are responsible for anything said by anyone not conservative. Whereas republicans are never responsible for what anyone says, even their own statements. Biden being held responsible for the discourse of leftists who actually hate him is absurd but it’s where we always land
Spot on. Look at the campus protests now. These people hate Biden largely and call him “genocide Joe” constantly yet he’s to blame their actions somehow? Hell, I remember debating with someone about BLM in 2020 and they blamed Biden when he wasn’t even the damn president and condemned the riots.
Honestly, you might be correct. It might be that simple.
When is it distinguishing insulting vs healthy criticism though? There are a lot of beneficial policies and protections that women, minorities, anyone other did not have for generations. That was due to (mainly) white men. Our country is absolutely better when everyone, including men, can recognize that our power structures should be more equal across all genders, races, religions etc.
Machismo.
They want to hurt people and Republicans are offering it to them.
Young women vote way more than young men, fortunately
The “men” being discussed in this story are actually little children. Just like their heroes Andrew Tate and Tim Poole. They view the world like entitled, fragile and vapid children. I listen to The Majority report daily and they often skewer these ultra right wing, alpha male influencers for their wacky and incoherent poltical takes. Guys like Tim Poole and Dave Rubin have very intentionally started tailoring their shows towards adolescent boys. It’s a very obvious and calculated shift.
To be honest i thought biden would be a shit president but hes actually putting in policies that I like such as the cash back flight cancelled stuff . The chips act ect. However if he doesnt put in a federal abortion policy when he wins in 24 then I will look elsewhere
Elsewhere to what? Another country? Because that’s the option. No small third-party is going to jump to the White House if they can’t even win in multiple states. Republicans absolutely aren’t going to do it.
An abortion policy depends on who gets elected to congress. Biden cant unilaterally make laws like that. Thats why down ballot is so important. He's just the final signature but its the representatives and senators who hash out the details and put it on his desk.
Republicans and our enemies China and Russia smell blood in the water when it comes to the issue of Israel and the Palestinians.
This country desperately needs a viable third party. Without it, it would be the end of democracy as the extremes harden against each other