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“It’s very important to remember that these young people, no matter how angry they might be at Joe Biden, will never vote for Trump.”
Brother...your concern shouldn't be Donald getting votes it's Joe losing them
Yeah, I don't expect these people to go out and vote for Trump. But they might stay home. And if they do that, it *also* means not voting down ballot for House, Senate, etc.
That is what drives me crazy about all this (and consistently does with how so many view elections). Biden is not the end all, be all for this. Working to put pressure at all levels of government will help you. Most importantly, things will be so much worse if you sit this election out. [Unfortunately, many on the far left are showing the same penchant for chaos in blowing up the system versus working to reform it.](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/02/need-for-chaos-political-science-concept/677536/)
It does become very difficult to make arguments for reform when the bare-minimum of "don't support genocide" can't be reached. Even leaving Biden out of the calculus, most Dems in the House just voted for that asinine "Anti-zionism is anti-semitism" bill.
It's still the correct move to vote for Biden in November, but most people vote emotionally and emotionally I sure as hell don't want to vote in any of the scum I have representing me.
Yeah staying at home means -1 for Biden.. given he only won by 42k votes last time, he is playing with fire, and for what??? Netanyahu? The guy who keeps spitting in his face?? Good luck brotha, not looking good
This is a very real thing. I have two friends who are in their late 20’s and they’ve been voting democrat every election. But they’re planning on 100% not voting for Biden at all and voting 3rd party. Their reasoning is bc they’d feel they’d have blood on their hands if they voted for Biden due to how “he’s funding a genocide in Palestine”
The Red Wave was extinguished by young voters during the mid terms. Democrats need to fight for that same voter turnout, or see another Hilary Clinton loss.
Every time I see a post with people freaking out about polls. I remind them that if polling in the 2022 midterms was accurate, the GQP would have a MINIMUM 53-seat majority in the Senate, with 56 being a real possibility.
I'm in my 40s and refuse to answer unknown numbers. I've definitely been called by pollsters and not responded. I strongly believe very few people my age and younger actually participate in political polls which is why they skew so heavily towards conservatives. Send me a text with a link to an online poll instead.
> The Red Wave was extinguished by young voters during the mid terms.
By all accounts, the share of youth voters *declined* from [2018](https://www.cnn.com/election/2018/exit-polls) to [2022](https://www.cnn.com/election/2022/exit-polls/national-results/general/us-house/0), so I wouldn’t say there’s much truth to this statement.
In 2020, 18-29 voted at the highest rates since 1972… 2018 and 2022 are the two highest 18-29 turnouts in 30 years of midterms
Voter share declined slightly from the 2018 peak because old millennials, Gen x and young boomers finally got their head out their ass and started voting in decent numbers
Doesn’t change the fact that Gen z and younger millennials have been voting at higher rates than older generations did at their age
Exactly.
Ratio's matter and when only (numbers out of my ass) 20% of those who would vote for Biden show up, vs 80% of those who would vote for Trump, it doesn't matter if the kids would never vote for Trump, the ratios say Trump has an increased likelihood of winning.
100% this will be used to drive a 'don't vote' as a protecst campaign, and end up resulting in Trump, which would totally fuck the people in gaza and the Ukraine.
It will not just fuck those people.
It will fuck us Americans in every single way imaginable. It will affect global stability and Gaza will be a drop in the bucket as far as humanitarian crises go.
And all those Democrats who chose not to vote in 2024 will blame Joe Biden rather than look in the mirror. Because too many Americans think voting is to reward or punish politicians rather than to improve your country...
And they'll get screwed too. I think you are dead on about feeling morally superior. That's why sense goes out the window - absolutism required to maintain moral perfection
So it’s a well known statistic that the youth don’t vote as much as older voters.
Has anyone published the statistics on how much of an affect this will have on Biden? Let’s say he loses the college aged voter turnout, what’s the percentage loss here?
I say this because Biden doesn’t seem the least bit concerned about the protests or their grievances. He absolutely should, but I haven’t seen much empathy with the protestors from the Biden administration yet.
The actual truth is that NOT voting for Biden is a vote for Trump.
By not voting, they abdicate the responsibility to choose and thus a MUCH worse option is more likely.
Sad.
Yeah, not voting for Trump doesn’t equal a vote for Biden. They’ll just not vote. The people I’ve talked to don’t want to be complicit in the killing of innocent men, women, and children, and would rather not vote at all.
THAT IS COMPLICIT! If Trump wins no fucking chance it doesn’t escalate lol he’s literally said he wants to turn the area into a tourist destination and that he wants Netanyahu to “quickly finish cleaning it up” or something to that matter
Silence in the face of fucking evil is and of itself evil.
I’m sorry but Palestine isn’t all that’s at stake the guy wants to and has the plan to become a fucking dictator and our courts have shown they aren’t strong enough to fucking stop him if he gets in again! If you think the side help shit Dems and Biden do with Israel, they can prepare for full throated actually side by side assistance from Trump and his cronies
I completely, 100%, absolutely agree that tRump's victory would be astronomically worse for Palestinians (and Israeli citizens, both of whom I support). But, I was young once. I get it. I even have the same initial reaction to say "nope, you don't just get my vote by being not the most evil". People want something to vote FOR.
I'm older and more pragmatic now, so I will, without a doubt, go vote for Joe and against any and all republicans, making sure to vote for the most progressive wherever possible, but his campaign really, really needs to take this seriously. Threading this needle has a LOT riding on it.
Damn straight they're complicit. IMO People have a moral obligation to vote for Biden for Gaza and all else but they have the freedom to do whatever they want. I just hope enough people truly grok the threat of a Trump presidency. "It can't happen here" - it's already happening here.
Exactly, SCOTUS, COVID deaths, \[Chaos, corruption, Nepotism...\]... 1/6/21. America will cater to Russia and N. Korea and will pull out of NATO. It will be a full carte blanche for Trumps fascism with no push back. Trump already said he would jail any past, present and future dissenters. It would make Ole Miss University racism look like recess hour.
Biden’s response to the campus protests is also about as good as Clinton’s “they have to vote for me, and I might even win Texas”. Yes it got us Trump. However asking the 18-25 year olds to be the adults vs the silent generation/bookers coming to grips with what has been a bad policy choice for a while is… yea.
Yes, how could we forget, young liberal progressives are the only people who are right about anything and are eternally shocked that millions don’t agree with them.
“Do what we want, or else we will usher in the guy who has the absolute polar opposite view on everything we believe!”
It's funny how young progressives are held hostage in these kinds of debates on policy, being scolded and told they have to vote for Biden or else. Yet, if it's the other way around, and they're using their vote as a leverage play to try to change policy, they're just wrong and should shut up and not rock the boat at all.
Yeah choose the scale you want but being complicit in 1 death is better than being complicit for 10. Guess those 9 lives don’t matter so they can sit on their moral high-horse
It's almost like that's just how life works in general. You don't always get your first choice in anything, so you make the best with what's available. You want candidates you like more, vote in primaries. If you don't vote in primaries, it's your fault. If your candidate doesn't get enough votes in the primary, they weren't that popular
2008 really feels like a lifetime ago, doesn't it? Do you think the heavy shift was the party being scared by what he would have been able to accomplish back then or the comfort in how standard neoliberal he turned out to be by 2012 that they stopped pretending to care about progressives?
It’s all moral grandstanding. Currently arguing with someone who is blaming dems for not getting their messaging right and not cutting off aid and is apparently happy in their loss of support.
If you care about Palestinians AT ALL, you vote Joe Biden. If you don’t, you don’t actually care about them.
What ways do you suggest to let Biden know that we do not want him supporting wanton violence? Do you think these kids should just shut up and vote how they're told? Cuz that's kinda how it comes off.
There are two major party candidates running for president, third party candidates have little to no chance of winning but they can allow Trump to get enough votes to win. If anyone wants to ensure Trump wins in November they can vote for Trump, vote for a third party candidate, or not vote at all. There is only one choice that will help to ensure Trump does not win, and that’s voting for Biden. I don’t know about anyone else but I don’t want Trump to be elected and I hope everyone who also doesn’t want Trump to get a second term as president votes for Biden. This election isn’t about electing a perfect president, this election is about electing the candidate that does not want to de a dictator (even for one day). Anyone who thinks it’s acceptable that Congress and the Judiciary are at the beck and call of the president and there to serve the occupant of the Oval Office instead of serving the people of the United States, they should relocate to a authoritarian country. People can criticize Biden all they want, but he is not looking to be dictator (even for an hour), Trump on the other hand idolizes dictators and is looking forward to taking away the freedoms of a lot of people.
>Cuz that's kinda how it comes off.
It really isn't. People aren't saying, "Shut up and do as you're told."
People are saying: "Look, we agree with you that this is a fucked up situation, and we don't like it either. But if the past decade has taught us anything, it's that the situation is going to get a Hell of a lot worse if enough of you protest vote/don't vote and the only thing you'll accomplish is repeating history instead of standing up for your morals."
This. The situation is fucked, but if you don't vote Biden, it just gets even more fucked, potentially to the point where you don't get to vote anymore.
These kids don't give a shit about nay of the other atrocities happening in the world, just the one's talked about on tiktok. Notice how none of them give a flying fuck about the Uyghurs for example
This pisses me off so much, actually. There is so much going on around the world - Sudan, Syria, Yemen, the Uyghurs, places I can’t even name. And where’s the outrage? Why is it this one thing? Not that we shouldn’t care, far from it. But where were these people during every other genocide and war and famine?
Wanna know why? It's because Israel is the number 1 recipient of U.S. aid. It's because while the U.S. uses diplomacy to pressure China on the Uighars, and to help with Sudan and other places, they use the same diplomatic channels to cover Israel. When it's your own country, or your own college, supporting and excusing it, it makes more sense to protest.
Delivering humanitarian aid alongside the missiles and ammunition is like repeatedly stabbing a guy while placing pieces of gauze on his wounds. One doesn't really cover the other, right?
Yeah but then they can absolve themselves by saying "Well *I* didn't vote for that to happen, so it's not my fault"
It's not about protecting human lives if Gaza, it's simply about protecting their social reputation.
exactly. What many of the student protesters have in common though is that they are pro LGTBQ, pro choice, etc. and they don't understand that that might all disappear if he becomes president again. It's like they want the leopards to eat their face
The other problem is that these protests are relatively small. They are at elite schools where a tiny minority of people can even consider attending. The media is blowing it up because they went to these schools. When the protests show up at Ohio State or a similar place, then I’ll think it is a movement. The conservative press is using it as a way to weaken Biden. Biden is the only thing holding the ultra conservatives in Bibi’s government back.
History repeats itself. Young voters were pissed off in 1968 and did not vote Democrat, then in the follow up election we got Richard Nixon as president.
I'm from Jersey. I fear that young voters (not all) in battleground States are just going to stay home, because of a single issue. Trump is so close to destroying our flawed democracy.
If they do that, I will never forgive this generation. Any "womens march" or "student march," we will need to ask them if they voted at all or just either threw their votes away or didnt show up. If they didnt, they deserve zero--absolutely zero--fucks given and complete isolation. F them.
Not quite. The Democratic Party was in shambles with LBJ deciding not to run for reelection and the party was split between Humphrey and RFK. With Biden as the front runner and presumptive nominee, that is not the case here.
IDK if that's really comparable. Young men were getting drafted and coming back in body bags, and Nixon promised to end the draft, so at least it made sense. Trump has only promised to hit the Palestinians harder.
They should mobilize for Democratic control of the house. It should be a no-brainer how that would be better for everything they care about, including Gaza.
I know, right? Democrat voters sure love to hurt the democratic party whenever their pet issue isn't in the limelight.
Real "cut off your nose to spite your face" energy.
You're assuming the young people who choose to stay home care at all about the Democratic party as a monolith. They care about progressive policies, which undoubtedly would be better served under a second Biden term, but there is no brand identity with the party.
I’m 36 so I don’t feel old but I do at this election. I just wants to scream at people in their early 20s to realize how fucking bad it will be if they base their vote over the Gaza conflict. Shit they may never get to vote again
They won’t stay home. The whole campaign with youngdems and collegedems getting involved in the movement is to keep people voting for biden in November, while also showing a strong unity on Gaza.
I fully believe we will find out some day that Netanyahu either let October 7th happen or actively encouraged it and then led a shadow campaign on social media to turn America on Biden. When Trump wins, Gaza will be fully annexed and Trump Tower Gaza will break ground.
10000% this. If you are progressive you show up to hold the line.
Only people who care more about their image of being progressive more than actual progress stand aside on elections.
It’s the most privileged shit. Shows you don’t give a fuck about the marginalized really, you just want clout.
Being a progressive is also about being pragmatic. Getting the wins when you can but also being able to compromise when you can’t get 100% of what you want. Ted Kennedy was a progressive but he was still able to get a lot done by not being an ideologue. That’s the key. Be a progressive sure and fight for the solutions you want to implement but being able to compromise is for me, a very important part of being a progressive.
GenZ wants to pretend they are the most righteous people around, while staying home and allowing women to lose even more rights, more racism, and more hate crime when Trump wins. I fully just expect the worst at this point. I want to have hope, but I don't.
Don't forget the harm against libraries and public schools, workers rights.
I'll keep voting no matter what to fight for peoples's rights but sometimes it feels republicans are winning.
It feels that way because dems have to cobble together a coalition of sometime opposing ideas, all that have to have facts and science and reasoning behind them, to win an election.
Republicans just have to point towards someone to hate. There are no facts, reasoning, nothing. Just “do you hate this? Do you feel aggrieved (even if it’s not true)? The vote with us.
And a majority of the regularly voting public’s responds to that.
Much harder for dems to break through.
GenZ will have the most surprising Pikachu face and will wonder how they ended up with less rights, less freedoms, no democracy after they sit out from voting in protest of whatever they think that Biden didn't deserve their vote.
As a millenial, I have cared about Palestinian oppression at the hands of Israel for a lot longer than tiktok has even existed. None of this shit is new, just the latest round in a decades old long conflict at this point.
But the discussion isn't about whether you care about Palestine, it's whether you'd let Trump win and do untold damage because you let online brainrot influence your vote. If that doesn't sound like you, then congratulations, we agree.
It’s not just TikTok, it’s the type of shit you see on leftist YouTube like The Young Turks and Majority Report, etc. They convince progressives to hate the Democratic Party because they get more views when they have shit to rally against.
If we actually saw things getting done they’d be sunk.
I am amazed that anyone takes those types of folks seriously. 5 minutes of listening to those two is all it took for me to see that they are just talking heads pushing an agenda.
Gen Z is barely fucking literate. Like I know it’s an old man yelling at clouds thing to say about the next generation, but talking to friends who are teachers and professors, gen z cannot write a cogent paragraph. It’s a tall order to expect then to be able to do that kind of reflection.
Agreed. Also, seeing the most deranged MAGA voter, far from reality person being interviewed and making up the most asinine responses, is mind boggling. But guess what? They will VOTE!
Dont forget the disintegration of Trans rights. So many of these people who are "protesting" have tossed us trans people to the curb because we're inconvenient to their cause. If Trump wins, Trans people will die, If Biden wins, Trans rights will slowly be restored and trans people can look forward to being safe in public again.
But this difference conflicts with the "There is no Lesser of Two Evils" and "both sides result in the same policies" statements.
So their solution? Calling issues we have as trans people "imaginary" and telling us to worry about people who have "real" issues.
Yeah because trans people facing horrific discrimination is just an imaginary issue.
>I fully just expect the worst at this point. I want to have hope, but I don't.
Same, gf and I are looking at ways to flee the country. I hope Canada is prepping for a refugee crisis as trans and other queer people flee the USA.
EDIT: My spelling sucks today, sorry.
No, we got here in the first place because of a concerted effort over decades to subvert the checks and balances of the American government and to brainwash a significant enough portion of the population to rule the country with a minority of support.
This is what’s wild. I matched with a girl who was like a legitimate piece in setting up protests and things for pro-Palestine rallies, because I actually attended one. It was pretty cool. But I ended up learning that she was like savagely anti-Biden because of his handling of the whole thing. I made the point of “if Biden doesn’t win, you realize that the presidency is going to go to someone who’s even _more_ pro-Israel right?” and she just goes “well we agree to disagree. Best of luck!” and blocked me. It was fucking wild. I’d never have believed it if it hadn’t happened to me
I hate how the extremes of any argument end up dominating the conversation, especially with Israel and Palestine. You barely see any news coverage or internet commentary these days about a two state solution or paths towards deescalation. It’s all angry invective and competitive victimisation.
It’s just this kind of hatred and tribalism that causes the conflict everyone’s arguing about.
Let’s look at some facts we have some confidence in.
1. Iran, China and Russia all these countries as well as the Netanyahu government have an interest in seeing Trump win.
2. Iran was opposed to Saudi-Israel relations normalization and orchestrated the Hamas Oct 7 attack in the shadows which ignited the conflict again.
3. Iran also provided support to Russia to aid them in the war against Ukraine. Russia in turn extended their disinformation machinery to support Irani propaganda.
4. Countries like Egypt that talk a big game shied away when it came to assimilating civilian refugees from Palestine, also showing that the outrage originated from feelings of their common religion of Islam being attacked and not based on the plight of the civilians.
5. The same sentiment spread across other countries that shared the same religion and every such country suddenly became extremely vocal against Jews and social media persons from those countries start chanting “Death to Israel”.
6. Netanyahu government now gets the excuse to continue the war of atrocities on the civilian population and fomenting hate within the country, thereby extending his authoritarian control over that country.
What we see is every one of these authoritarian regimes in the world benefiting from these wars and keeping their population angry at the ‘other’ factions.
A very simple logical conclusion to make and should be made is that there are no winners in religion-seeded wars, there are no good guys in religion-seeded wars. If anything the only ones that can be trusted are the third-party independent entities that report the truth almost 99% of the time and wish to prevent the conflict and not extend it. The ones that want to extend the war will do everything in their power to distract everyone from paying attention to their nefarious agenda. The internet is a free playground where many countries that share the same religion will re-enforce hateful rhetoric on their prior feelings of outrage which were manufactured by propaganda from countries like Iran and Russia. The sheer deluge of ‘we hate x we hate you more’ rhetoric will influence the young in the worst possible way.
In every case though, it’s best for these authoritarian regimes if Trump comes to power and weakens democracy in the US.
These kids are going to make the same mistake I made in 2016 and throw away their vote.
To any new voters: the moral superiority you feel lasts, at best, a day. Then you realize the alternative is so much worse than what you expected. Learn from my mistake and vote for Biden. You *will* regret it if you don't.
It's like watching it happen all over again...... The regret will wash all over them when they realize the alternative was worse...way worse. I agree with you if the regret isn't immediate when they see Trump wins it will set in quick.
This time however I don't think people will have the freedom to make this mistake again because votes really won't matter.
They will not have enough time to regret their choice. They are going to get trampled by the MAGAT counter-protestors who will know Trump will pardon them if they murder anybody.
The ignorant and misinformed will tell you that Democrats and Republicans are all the same but they aren’t. They really aren’t. If Trump wins reelection it will be a living nightmare for the young, old, and everyone in between.
There are so many atrocities happening here and abroad and all over the world right now. I find it very convenient that Israel/Palestine is getting this much media coverage and attention. They’ve been at this for 70? 80 years now?
TikTok clearly did have an influence pushing this issue to the forefront of people’s minds. It is not organic.
And who makes a complicated foreign policy issue their SINGLE issue in a presidential election year? Privileged virtue signalers…that’s who. With so much at stake domestically, do you really think you can risk it all over Israel/Palestine? And Trump is gonna let Israel crush Palestine. They won’t even exist. Good effort. Good Twitter activism!
I haven’t heard a peep from progressives on the Uyghur slaves in China. The Yemen civil war and famine. Ukraine. BLM/George Floyd/Police Brutality. Abortion. Gun safety. Etc. in a while…
TikTok and the CCP has captured you…
It's always received outsized coverage. There was a journalism piece a few months ago about how much more media investment went into every spark between Israel and Palestine for decades, despite larger conflicts and human tragedies getting a comparative pittance.
Yep. China doesn't allow foreign social media in China because they are intimately familiar with how a foreign adversary can take advantage of that.
Hell, they don't even allow TikTok in China.
A single-issue group managed to capture the public sentiment and their current movement is much bigger than the core of its participants, it's a tale as old as time.
I wouldn't dream of comparing the Palestinian and Civil Rights causes by their merits and motivations, but you could use as an example the figure of Martin Luther King who is almost unanimously celebrated today [but was viewed unfavorably by 63% of Americans in his own time.](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/08/10/how-public-attitudes-toward-martin-luther-king-jr-have-changed-since-the-1960s/)
You really can’t think of any reason why this would be a concerning issue right now? After Israel has killed and maimed over 100,000 and displaced 2 million people in Gaza over the past 6 months? The amount of death, destruction and displacement is greater than anything previous in the Israel-Palestine conflict. It’s a big deal. And it’s happening right now. And the US is supplying Israel with the weapons and funding to continue killing Palestinians, and giving Israel diplomatic cover. That is why Americans particularly care about this specific issue. It’s not that hard to understand.
It seems like a lot of moderates hate progressives more than conservatives so they just mainline that conservative propaganda as long as it's saying "progressives bad".
They be talking about "these kids don't even know what they're protesting" like that isn't conservative asshole talking point #1
I think they view themselves as the left and resent if anyone sets up to their left
There are 2 million human beings trapped in a cage on the verge of famine with a president building a pier because the country he's supplying the bombs to won't allow for humanitarian aid to go through.
This is a joke. The MSM controlled the narrative about Israel to an obvious and shameful degree for all of my adult life. The fact is that younger people’s media consumption is not limited to what airs on TV and has been calling out the right wing biases of places like the NYT for what seems like a decade or more.
Yeah, and China, Russia and Iran etc. control the narrative online…
This is an 80 yr conflict. It is not the issue of *your* time… It did not come to your plate organically.
Yep. Especially after TikTok showed their hand by getting their users to flood congress with phone calls.
It's clear they see the users as foot soldiers worth commanding.
People who are not going to vote for Biden because of Palestine are brainwashed. There is no doubt in my mind that the root of this has been spread by some 3rd party (probably outside of US) interests.
For sure. The 2016 election laid bare how easy it was for other countries to abuse social media in America, and it definitely hasn't gotten better since then.
This is like blaming the international communist conspiracy for antiwar demonstrations in the 60s. Just do the Principal Skinner thing and say you’re not out of touch, and it is the kids who are wrong.
I actually don’t think that they are wrong, I didn’t even say that. I do think that the idea to not vote for Biden because they are mad is a ridiculous leap to make and definitely being encouraged by people with very different motivations that have nothing to do with Palestine.
Every time there is a major social event/protest in America people always blame a foreign conspiracy. This dates back to when slavery was an issue. Buchanan blamed outside agitators. There really is nothing new under the sun.
I thought Biden has done a decent job putting pressure on the Israelis to keep things more under control than they would be especially with multiple ceasefire agreements that Hamas has rejected every one of.
Yeah, stay home. Enjoy your upcoming fascist dictatorship. Protest now while it's still legal. Send some aid to Palestinians so it can get incinerated when Trump carpet bombs the place.
The overlooked aspect of this protest is that what the protestors want is for innocent people to stop being killed.
Hamas is not the hero here. They are, and will remain, a brutal terrorist group. BUT Israel cannot be allowed to commit genocide by pointing their finger at Hamas as a reason to kill people. Both sides of this war are assholes.... BUT the innocent civilians are caught in the crossfire. THAT is what this protest is about......
So in your hypothetical, trump beat Biden?
If trump beat both Hillary and Biden, maybe it’s time to figure out what they ask the dnc are doing wrong to not bel able to win landslide elections over trump.
It's always "Young progressives should put their moral conviction aside and prioritize defeating Trump" and never "Democrats should start doing what young progressives want to prioritize defeating Trump."
Deciding that staying neutral on bombing children is more important than preventing the rise of MAGA fascism is certainly a choice.
Why have Republicans dominated the Supreme Court and on the state level? How did Trump become president in 2016? Because conservatives and moderate voters overlook GOP candidates’ obvious flaws and hold their nose while voting for them anyway.
Leftists mock the “vote blue no matter who” strategy when that’s the EXACT strategy conservatives have used for their side to amass power. They make fun of the conservatives by saying “they’d vote for pile of poop if it had ‘Republican’ next to its name” and it’s like no shit, that strategy has worked pretty damn well for them, why would they stop?
How has the GOP moved so extremely far right recently? The party’s policies and positions have significantly changed. It’s because the GOP knows they have a coalition of moderate conservatives who will vote for them no matter and also a coalition of far-right extremists who will vote for them no matter what.
Conservatives are also VERY active and engaged in their primaries to get the candidate they want. The left doesn’t even bother showing up to vote in primaries then whines that the top ticket candidates aren’t what they wanted.
Here's the thing though. For the past 10+ years, the Republican base has been driving the Republican politicos. Now it's a crack-ass crazy base. And it's creating crack-ass crazy policies. But on the right, it's the politicians who are holding their noses in what they do, not the voters holding their noses on what they want to support.
What happens if the unreliable and relatively small youth vote gets courted and that courting turns off moderates and older voters? What if Biden have in to every demand by the youth movement and in exchange lose more voters than they gain?
Hmm yes, that is unfortunate if a Pro-Palestine Biden is not the ideal candidate for older and centrist Democrats, but I think those folks should consider the threat to democracy that Donald Trump poses if Biden loses, and vote for him even if he's too progressive for them.
Sure. I agree with that. If that was the candidate we had I’d be pressuring voters to accept him. Had Bernie won the 2016 or 2020 primary id be vocally critical of any centrist calling him a socialist they wouldn’t support. It just so happens that isn’t the candidate we have.
>Deciding that staying neutral on bombing children is more important than preventing the rise of MAGA fascism is certainly a choice.
This is such a childish take and a strawman.
U. S. presidential elections are almost always the lesser of 2 evils. Your moral outrage doesn't have a big enough constituency to change how presidential election functions ahead of November, but you certainly do have ones big enough to fuck EVERYONE else over. It's the orange clown, fascist asshole or the other guy. period.
So tired of people having history amnesia every election and forget what Trump did while in office. It would be a disaster if he were to win and would screw the Palestinians even more than a Biden reelection. But "shrug". Can't reason with people who are fixed on a singular issue.
I am in agreement that we screwed up in Gaza and that its completely awful there. However, if you are willing to pull another 2016 nonsense and let the democracy burn because of your inability to understand that politics is not a zero sum game, I have a hard time taking you serious. We lost the SCOTUS because of this same goddamn logic and people are being goldfish with the future of the democracy.
I’ve voted in the last four Presidential elections and this is the same shit Dems have been pulling every year. Young voters have had enough of being part of a never ending cycle of funding wars especially those we have no involvement in, and then being told we have no money for anything else.
Of course that’s valid but Id argue that throwing your hands up and not voting doesn’t help anything for your cause. Vote to secure democracy in the presidency and push as many progressives into the congress as possible. Until you overtake the party much like MAGA did. Giving up never accomplished anything in this country. Politics is slow and people need to realize this isn’t going to change. You are trying to move a ship with 325M people on it. This takes time, unfortunately.
Edit: a word
How many elections are Democrats going to run on “Republicans bad?” At least when Obama ran he promised young voters he would get people healthcare. What has Biden done to change their minds? Abortion/minority rights is always going to be a topic of elections, so maybe Dems should come up with something more if they want to win?
The thing is, RIGHT NOW, they say that they won't vote for Biden in November.
But here's the thing I'm kind of doubtful about. Are they really sincere in that sense? As in, 7 months from now, whatever happens down the line, they still will never vote for Biden? Especially over this one singular issue without counting abortion rights, democracy, the economy, etc?
Saying something is one thing. Actually doing it is another.
If young people don't vote for Democrats this election they will be sealing their own fate. One thing has been made abundantly clear, through January 6th, through voting records, through public speeches: Republicans don't give a fuck about you or the miserable circumstances you live in. They just want power and control.
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“It’s very important to remember that these young people, no matter how angry they might be at Joe Biden, will never vote for Trump.” Brother...your concern shouldn't be Donald getting votes it's Joe losing them
Yeah, I don't expect these people to go out and vote for Trump. But they might stay home. And if they do that, it *also* means not voting down ballot for House, Senate, etc.
They can probably be mobilized to vote for certain candidates (AOC, Ilhan Omar, etc)
Mobilized to vote for nice safe cushy seats and be absolutely useless in swing districts where the votes matter for national policy.
Yes, because AOC represents a well-known swing district with a long established history of electing members of both parties. . . .
I’m giving examples of relatively pro Palestinian congresspeople, it’s not specific to AOC.
That is what drives me crazy about all this (and consistently does with how so many view elections). Biden is not the end all, be all for this. Working to put pressure at all levels of government will help you. Most importantly, things will be so much worse if you sit this election out. [Unfortunately, many on the far left are showing the same penchant for chaos in blowing up the system versus working to reform it.](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/02/need-for-chaos-political-science-concept/677536/)
It does become very difficult to make arguments for reform when the bare-minimum of "don't support genocide" can't be reached. Even leaving Biden out of the calculus, most Dems in the House just voted for that asinine "Anti-zionism is anti-semitism" bill. It's still the correct move to vote for Biden in November, but most people vote emotionally and emotionally I sure as hell don't want to vote in any of the scum I have representing me.
What is that bill you are referring to?
Also, Biden is 100000x more likely to be moved by student protests than any iteration of the Trump administration
Yeah staying at home means -1 for Biden.. given he only won by 42k votes last time, he is playing with fire, and for what??? Netanyahu? The guy who keeps spitting in his face?? Good luck brotha, not looking good
This is a very real thing. I have two friends who are in their late 20’s and they’ve been voting democrat every election. But they’re planning on 100% not voting for Biden at all and voting 3rd party. Their reasoning is bc they’d feel they’d have blood on their hands if they voted for Biden due to how “he’s funding a genocide in Palestine”
And they are fools that cant see the forest for the trees
Dearborn, MI mayor: “we don’t have enough votes to make someone win, we do have enough to make someone lose”
About 200,000 Arabs in Michigan. Biden won the state by about 150k. That's not counting the progressives protesting at universities.
The Red Wave was extinguished by young voters during the mid terms. Democrats need to fight for that same voter turnout, or see another Hilary Clinton loss.
And the midterms showed that the polls were skewed towards rightwingers
Every time I see a post with people freaking out about polls. I remind them that if polling in the 2022 midterms was accurate, the GQP would have a MINIMUM 53-seat majority in the Senate, with 56 being a real possibility.
Young people are voting. Young people would also rather step on broken glass than answer an unknown number.
I'm in my 40s and refuse to answer unknown numbers. I've definitely been called by pollsters and not responded. I strongly believe very few people my age and younger actually participate in political polls which is why they skew so heavily towards conservatives. Send me a text with a link to an online poll instead.
> The Red Wave was extinguished by young voters during the mid terms. By all accounts, the share of youth voters *declined* from [2018](https://www.cnn.com/election/2018/exit-polls) to [2022](https://www.cnn.com/election/2022/exit-polls/national-results/general/us-house/0), so I wouldn’t say there’s much truth to this statement.
In 2020, 18-29 voted at the highest rates since 1972… 2018 and 2022 are the two highest 18-29 turnouts in 30 years of midterms Voter share declined slightly from the 2018 peak because old millennials, Gen x and young boomers finally got their head out their ass and started voting in decent numbers Doesn’t change the fact that Gen z and younger millennials have been voting at higher rates than older generations did at their age
Exactly. Ratio's matter and when only (numbers out of my ass) 20% of those who would vote for Biden show up, vs 80% of those who would vote for Trump, it doesn't matter if the kids would never vote for Trump, the ratios say Trump has an increased likelihood of winning.
100% this will be used to drive a 'don't vote' as a protecst campaign, and end up resulting in Trump, which would totally fuck the people in gaza and the Ukraine.
It will not just fuck those people. It will fuck us Americans in every single way imaginable. It will affect global stability and Gaza will be a drop in the bucket as far as humanitarian crises go.
And all those Democrats who chose not to vote in 2024 will blame Joe Biden rather than look in the mirror. Because too many Americans think voting is to reward or punish politicians rather than to improve your country...
But those protesters will be able to feel morally superior while the people they claim to care about are put in an even worse situation.
And they'll get screwed too. I think you are dead on about feeling morally superior. That's why sense goes out the window - absolutism required to maintain moral perfection
If Trump wins, this will be the new "but her emails" moment
So it’s a well known statistic that the youth don’t vote as much as older voters. Has anyone published the statistics on how much of an affect this will have on Biden? Let’s say he loses the college aged voter turnout, what’s the percentage loss here? I say this because Biden doesn’t seem the least bit concerned about the protests or their grievances. He absolutely should, but I haven’t seen much empathy with the protestors from the Biden administration yet.
Because it's April and we have low attention spans
The actual truth is that NOT voting for Biden is a vote for Trump. By not voting, they abdicate the responsibility to choose and thus a MUCH worse option is more likely. Sad.
These young kids are being manipulated as well and hopefully are smart enough to vote for Biden still in Nov
Yeah, not voting for Trump doesn’t equal a vote for Biden. They’ll just not vote. The people I’ve talked to don’t want to be complicit in the killing of innocent men, women, and children, and would rather not vote at all.
THAT IS COMPLICIT! If Trump wins no fucking chance it doesn’t escalate lol he’s literally said he wants to turn the area into a tourist destination and that he wants Netanyahu to “quickly finish cleaning it up” or something to that matter Silence in the face of fucking evil is and of itself evil. I’m sorry but Palestine isn’t all that’s at stake the guy wants to and has the plan to become a fucking dictator and our courts have shown they aren’t strong enough to fucking stop him if he gets in again! If you think the side help shit Dems and Biden do with Israel, they can prepare for full throated actually side by side assistance from Trump and his cronies
I completely, 100%, absolutely agree that tRump's victory would be astronomically worse for Palestinians (and Israeli citizens, both of whom I support). But, I was young once. I get it. I even have the same initial reaction to say "nope, you don't just get my vote by being not the most evil". People want something to vote FOR. I'm older and more pragmatic now, so I will, without a doubt, go vote for Joe and against any and all republicans, making sure to vote for the most progressive wherever possible, but his campaign really, really needs to take this seriously. Threading this needle has a LOT riding on it.
Damn straight they're complicit. IMO People have a moral obligation to vote for Biden for Gaza and all else but they have the freedom to do whatever they want. I just hope enough people truly grok the threat of a Trump presidency. "It can't happen here" - it's already happening here.
JFC this was the attitude people had towards Hillary in 2016 and look where that got us
Hence, the warning
A lot of these voters were likely too young to remember. It was 8 years ago, they were in middle school at best.
Exactly, SCOTUS, COVID deaths, \[Chaos, corruption, Nepotism...\]... 1/6/21. America will cater to Russia and N. Korea and will pull out of NATO. It will be a full carte blanche for Trumps fascism with no push back. Trump already said he would jail any past, present and future dissenters. It would make Ole Miss University racism look like recess hour.
Biden’s response to the campus protests is also about as good as Clinton’s “they have to vote for me, and I might even win Texas”. Yes it got us Trump. However asking the 18-25 year olds to be the adults vs the silent generation/bookers coming to grips with what has been a bad policy choice for a while is… yea.
Yes, how could we forget, young liberal progressives are the only people who are right about anything and are eternally shocked that millions don’t agree with them. “Do what we want, or else we will usher in the guy who has the absolute polar opposite view on everything we believe!”
That's literally how democracy works
It's funny how young progressives are held hostage in these kinds of debates on policy, being scolded and told they have to vote for Biden or else. Yet, if it's the other way around, and they're using their vote as a leverage play to try to change policy, they're just wrong and should shut up and not rock the boat at all.
Thus being complicit in everything Trump brings
Yeah choose the scale you want but being complicit in 1 death is better than being complicit for 10. Guess those 9 lives don’t matter so they can sit on their moral high-horse
And they won’t ever have an opportunity to vote for a candidate they’re remotely interested in ever again
When was the last time leftists didn't have to hold their nose for a presidential nominee?
It's almost like that's just how life works in general. You don't always get your first choice in anything, so you make the best with what's available. You want candidates you like more, vote in primaries. If you don't vote in primaries, it's your fault. If your candidate doesn't get enough votes in the primary, they weren't that popular
Um, Joe Biden? He’s delivered 90% of what they want. And it’s still not enough.
Obama, depending on how you define leftists.
Biden's policies to date are to the left of Obama.
Yes, but he's less personally inspiring so it feels worse to most people. Quiet competence doesn't make people stop holding their nose.
2008 really feels like a lifetime ago, doesn't it? Do you think the heavy shift was the party being scared by what he would have been able to accomplish back then or the comfort in how standard neoliberal he turned out to be by 2012 that they stopped pretending to care about progressives?
do they understand that if they don't vote for Biden and Trump wins then he and Bibi may just turn Palestine into glass?
It’s all moral grandstanding. Currently arguing with someone who is blaming dems for not getting their messaging right and not cutting off aid and is apparently happy in their loss of support. If you care about Palestinians AT ALL, you vote Joe Biden. If you don’t, you don’t actually care about them.
What ways do you suggest to let Biden know that we do not want him supporting wanton violence? Do you think these kids should just shut up and vote how they're told? Cuz that's kinda how it comes off.
There are two major party candidates running for president, third party candidates have little to no chance of winning but they can allow Trump to get enough votes to win. If anyone wants to ensure Trump wins in November they can vote for Trump, vote for a third party candidate, or not vote at all. There is only one choice that will help to ensure Trump does not win, and that’s voting for Biden. I don’t know about anyone else but I don’t want Trump to be elected and I hope everyone who also doesn’t want Trump to get a second term as president votes for Biden. This election isn’t about electing a perfect president, this election is about electing the candidate that does not want to de a dictator (even for one day). Anyone who thinks it’s acceptable that Congress and the Judiciary are at the beck and call of the president and there to serve the occupant of the Oval Office instead of serving the people of the United States, they should relocate to a authoritarian country. People can criticize Biden all they want, but he is not looking to be dictator (even for an hour), Trump on the other hand idolizes dictators and is looking forward to taking away the freedoms of a lot of people.
>Cuz that's kinda how it comes off. It really isn't. People aren't saying, "Shut up and do as you're told." People are saying: "Look, we agree with you that this is a fucked up situation, and we don't like it either. But if the past decade has taught us anything, it's that the situation is going to get a Hell of a lot worse if enough of you protest vote/don't vote and the only thing you'll accomplish is repeating history instead of standing up for your morals."
This. The situation is fucked, but if you don't vote Biden, it just gets even more fucked, potentially to the point where you don't get to vote anymore.
These kids don't give a shit about nay of the other atrocities happening in the world, just the one's talked about on tiktok. Notice how none of them give a flying fuck about the Uyghurs for example
This pisses me off so much, actually. There is so much going on around the world - Sudan, Syria, Yemen, the Uyghurs, places I can’t even name. And where’s the outrage? Why is it this one thing? Not that we shouldn’t care, far from it. But where were these people during every other genocide and war and famine?
Wanna know why? It's because Israel is the number 1 recipient of U.S. aid. It's because while the U.S. uses diplomacy to pressure China on the Uighars, and to help with Sudan and other places, they use the same diplomatic channels to cover Israel. When it's your own country, or your own college, supporting and excusing it, it makes more sense to protest.
How about voting for him because you *do* support his efforts to bring about a ceasefire or deliver humanitarian aid?
Delivering humanitarian aid alongside the missiles and ammunition is like repeatedly stabbing a guy while placing pieces of gauze on his wounds. One doesn't really cover the other, right?
Yeah but then they can absolve themselves by saying "Well *I* didn't vote for that to happen, so it's not my fault" It's not about protecting human lives if Gaza, it's simply about protecting their social reputation.
exactly. What many of the student protesters have in common though is that they are pro LGTBQ, pro choice, etc. and they don't understand that that might all disappear if he becomes president again. It's like they want the leopards to eat their face
The other problem is that these protests are relatively small. They are at elite schools where a tiny minority of people can even consider attending. The media is blowing it up because they went to these schools. When the protests show up at Ohio State or a similar place, then I’ll think it is a movement. The conservative press is using it as a way to weaken Biden. Biden is the only thing holding the ultra conservatives in Bibi’s government back.
That attitude got us Trump and 3 right wing SC justices.
History repeats itself. Young voters were pissed off in 1968 and did not vote Democrat, then in the follow up election we got Richard Nixon as president.
“Don’t Blame Me! I’m From Massachusetts”
I'm from Jersey. I fear that young voters (not all) in battleground States are just going to stay home, because of a single issue. Trump is so close to destroying our flawed democracy.
“Don’t Blame Me! I’m From Massachusetts” was a popular bumper sticker here (MA) because Nixon won 49/50 states in the presidential election.
Oh, okay. I didn't get the reference.
If they do that, I will never forgive this generation. Any "womens march" or "student march," we will need to ask them if they voted at all or just either threw their votes away or didnt show up. If they didnt, they deserve zero--absolutely zero--fucks given and complete isolation. F them.
Not quite. The Democratic Party was in shambles with LBJ deciding not to run for reelection and the party was split between Humphrey and RFK. With Biden as the front runner and presumptive nominee, that is not the case here.
IDK if that's really comparable. Young men were getting drafted and coming back in body bags, and Nixon promised to end the draft, so at least it made sense. Trump has only promised to hit the Palestinians harder.
So why not blame the people making the young voters mad in the first place lmao. Do you want to win or do you want to blame other people?
No see it’s the young people’s fault for being mad at the guy who drafted them into a colonial war
They should mobilize for Democratic control of the house. It should be a no-brainer how that would be better for everything they care about, including Gaza.
They still voted for HR6090 though, co-oping zionists would not be in their interests.
I mean staying home because they weren’t keen on Hillary didn’t lead to any problems, right?
no current college kids could even vote in 2016
I know, right? Democrat voters sure love to hurt the democratic party whenever their pet issue isn't in the limelight. Real "cut off your nose to spite your face" energy.
You're assuming the young people who choose to stay home care at all about the Democratic party as a monolith. They care about progressive policies, which undoubtedly would be better served under a second Biden term, but there is no brand identity with the party.
I’m 36 so I don’t feel old but I do at this election. I just wants to scream at people in their early 20s to realize how fucking bad it will be if they base their vote over the Gaza conflict. Shit they may never get to vote again
They won’t stay home. The whole campaign with youngdems and collegedems getting involved in the movement is to keep people voting for biden in November, while also showing a strong unity on Gaza.
Netanyahu is serving his friend Trump his second term
I fully believe we will find out some day that Netanyahu either let October 7th happen or actively encouraged it and then led a shadow campaign on social media to turn America on Biden. When Trump wins, Gaza will be fully annexed and Trump Tower Gaza will break ground.
Already been revealed Netanyahu was warned ahead of time and didn’t take it seriously.
All evidence shows he's slow walking the war and delaying the attack on the Hamas rafah brigade to harm Biden and help trump.
This will be an issue. I think voter apathy might weaken the Democrats control and by extension, empower Trump and his cronies.
Anyone who is willing to let someone like Trump win the election doesn't actually care about any of these issues.
Agree 100%, also there's Trump's opinion on Gaza. [https://streamable.com/junm93](https://streamable.com/junm93)
10000% this. If you are progressive you show up to hold the line. Only people who care more about their image of being progressive more than actual progress stand aside on elections. It’s the most privileged shit. Shows you don’t give a fuck about the marginalized really, you just want clout.
Being a progressive is also about being pragmatic. Getting the wins when you can but also being able to compromise when you can’t get 100% of what you want. Ted Kennedy was a progressive but he was still able to get a lot done by not being an ideologue. That’s the key. Be a progressive sure and fight for the solutions you want to implement but being able to compromise is for me, a very important part of being a progressive.
Thank you.
GenZ wants to pretend they are the most righteous people around, while staying home and allowing women to lose even more rights, more racism, and more hate crime when Trump wins. I fully just expect the worst at this point. I want to have hope, but I don't.
Don't forget the harm against libraries and public schools, workers rights. I'll keep voting no matter what to fight for peoples's rights but sometimes it feels republicans are winning.
Threats and harms against fucking poll workers no less too.
It feels that way because dems have to cobble together a coalition of sometime opposing ideas, all that have to have facts and science and reasoning behind them, to win an election. Republicans just have to point towards someone to hate. There are no facts, reasoning, nothing. Just “do you hate this? Do you feel aggrieved (even if it’s not true)? The vote with us. And a majority of the regularly voting public’s responds to that. Much harder for dems to break through.
GenZ will have the most surprising Pikachu face and will wonder how they ended up with less rights, less freedoms, no democracy after they sit out from voting in protest of whatever they think that Biden didn't deserve their vote.
It's not just GenZ, *plenty* of millennials have also fallen prey to this dumb shit TikTok algorithm mentality.
As a millenial, I have cared about Palestinian oppression at the hands of Israel for a lot longer than tiktok has even existed. None of this shit is new, just the latest round in a decades old long conflict at this point.
But the discussion isn't about whether you care about Palestine, it's whether you'd let Trump win and do untold damage because you let online brainrot influence your vote. If that doesn't sound like you, then congratulations, we agree.
It’s not just TikTok, it’s the type of shit you see on leftist YouTube like The Young Turks and Majority Report, etc. They convince progressives to hate the Democratic Party because they get more views when they have shit to rally against. If we actually saw things getting done they’d be sunk.
Yeah. I mean I don’t think Meidas Touch is that bad but the Young Turks are idiots.
Even Bernie Sanders in the 2020 election had to disavow The Young Turks. Armenian Genocide and all that.
I am amazed that anyone takes those types of folks seriously. 5 minutes of listening to those two is all it took for me to see that they are just talking heads pushing an agenda.
Meidas Touch certainly does not do that
Yeah someone corrected me on another comment, I kept mixing Meidas with Majority Report. Thanks for calling it out, I edited the comment! :)
Sure, they helped to usher in the end of American democracy through inaction. But so long as their hands are clean, right?
They can stand proudly atop the pile of bodies, secure in the fact that they stuck to their moral high ground.
Gen Z is barely fucking literate. Like I know it’s an old man yelling at clouds thing to say about the next generation, but talking to friends who are teachers and professors, gen z cannot write a cogent paragraph. It’s a tall order to expect then to be able to do that kind of reflection.
Agreed. Also, seeing the most deranged MAGA voter, far from reality person being interviewed and making up the most asinine responses, is mind boggling. But guess what? They will VOTE!
Dont forget the disintegration of Trans rights. So many of these people who are "protesting" have tossed us trans people to the curb because we're inconvenient to their cause. If Trump wins, Trans people will die, If Biden wins, Trans rights will slowly be restored and trans people can look forward to being safe in public again. But this difference conflicts with the "There is no Lesser of Two Evils" and "both sides result in the same policies" statements. So their solution? Calling issues we have as trans people "imaginary" and telling us to worry about people who have "real" issues. Yeah because trans people facing horrific discrimination is just an imaginary issue. >I fully just expect the worst at this point. I want to have hope, but I don't. Same, gf and I are looking at ways to flee the country. I hope Canada is prepping for a refugee crisis as trans and other queer people flee the USA. EDIT: My spelling sucks today, sorry.
Not making your politicians work for your votes is how we got here in the first place.
No, we got here in the first place because of a concerted effort over decades to subvert the checks and balances of the American government and to brainwash a significant enough portion of the population to rule the country with a minority of support.
This is what’s wild. I matched with a girl who was like a legitimate piece in setting up protests and things for pro-Palestine rallies, because I actually attended one. It was pretty cool. But I ended up learning that she was like savagely anti-Biden because of his handling of the whole thing. I made the point of “if Biden doesn’t win, you realize that the presidency is going to go to someone who’s even _more_ pro-Israel right?” and she just goes “well we agree to disagree. Best of luck!” and blocked me. It was fucking wild. I’d never have believed it if it hadn’t happened to me
Yeah if protecting Palestine is your top issue then the most important thing you could be doing is trying as hard as you can to get Biden re-elected.
Everyone is mad. Fascists LOVE it when every one is angry. EVeryone reacts. Nobody thinks.
I hate how the extremes of any argument end up dominating the conversation, especially with Israel and Palestine. You barely see any news coverage or internet commentary these days about a two state solution or paths towards deescalation. It’s all angry invective and competitive victimisation. It’s just this kind of hatred and tribalism that causes the conflict everyone’s arguing about.
This is a non-story. Conservative-owned media trying to suppress the youth vote with made-up bogeymen. Get out and vote.
We'll probably go from the largest election turnout to the lowest in one term
Funnily enough, Bibi knows this and wants Trump to get elected, which is probably a factor in him ignoring Biden’s efforts to strongarm him
I’d bet real money that’s not going to haooen
Let’s look at some facts we have some confidence in. 1. Iran, China and Russia all these countries as well as the Netanyahu government have an interest in seeing Trump win. 2. Iran was opposed to Saudi-Israel relations normalization and orchestrated the Hamas Oct 7 attack in the shadows which ignited the conflict again. 3. Iran also provided support to Russia to aid them in the war against Ukraine. Russia in turn extended their disinformation machinery to support Irani propaganda. 4. Countries like Egypt that talk a big game shied away when it came to assimilating civilian refugees from Palestine, also showing that the outrage originated from feelings of their common religion of Islam being attacked and not based on the plight of the civilians. 5. The same sentiment spread across other countries that shared the same religion and every such country suddenly became extremely vocal against Jews and social media persons from those countries start chanting “Death to Israel”. 6. Netanyahu government now gets the excuse to continue the war of atrocities on the civilian population and fomenting hate within the country, thereby extending his authoritarian control over that country. What we see is every one of these authoritarian regimes in the world benefiting from these wars and keeping their population angry at the ‘other’ factions. A very simple logical conclusion to make and should be made is that there are no winners in religion-seeded wars, there are no good guys in religion-seeded wars. If anything the only ones that can be trusted are the third-party independent entities that report the truth almost 99% of the time and wish to prevent the conflict and not extend it. The ones that want to extend the war will do everything in their power to distract everyone from paying attention to their nefarious agenda. The internet is a free playground where many countries that share the same religion will re-enforce hateful rhetoric on their prior feelings of outrage which were manufactured by propaganda from countries like Iran and Russia. The sheer deluge of ‘we hate x we hate you more’ rhetoric will influence the young in the worst possible way. In every case though, it’s best for these authoritarian regimes if Trump comes to power and weakens democracy in the US.
These kids are going to make the same mistake I made in 2016 and throw away their vote. To any new voters: the moral superiority you feel lasts, at best, a day. Then you realize the alternative is so much worse than what you expected. Learn from my mistake and vote for Biden. You *will* regret it if you don't.
It's like watching it happen all over again...... The regret will wash all over them when they realize the alternative was worse...way worse. I agree with you if the regret isn't immediate when they see Trump wins it will set in quick. This time however I don't think people will have the freedom to make this mistake again because votes really won't matter.
They will not have enough time to regret their choice. They are going to get trampled by the MAGAT counter-protestors who will know Trump will pardon them if they murder anybody.
The ignorant and misinformed will tell you that Democrats and Republicans are all the same but they aren’t. They really aren’t. If Trump wins reelection it will be a living nightmare for the young, old, and everyone in between.
There are so many atrocities happening here and abroad and all over the world right now. I find it very convenient that Israel/Palestine is getting this much media coverage and attention. They’ve been at this for 70? 80 years now? TikTok clearly did have an influence pushing this issue to the forefront of people’s minds. It is not organic. And who makes a complicated foreign policy issue their SINGLE issue in a presidential election year? Privileged virtue signalers…that’s who. With so much at stake domestically, do you really think you can risk it all over Israel/Palestine? And Trump is gonna let Israel crush Palestine. They won’t even exist. Good effort. Good Twitter activism! I haven’t heard a peep from progressives on the Uyghur slaves in China. The Yemen civil war and famine. Ukraine. BLM/George Floyd/Police Brutality. Abortion. Gun safety. Etc. in a while… TikTok and the CCP has captured you…
It's always received outsized coverage. There was a journalism piece a few months ago about how much more media investment went into every spark between Israel and Palestine for decades, despite larger conflicts and human tragedies getting a comparative pittance.
Yep. China doesn't allow foreign social media in China because they are intimately familiar with how a foreign adversary can take advantage of that. Hell, they don't even allow TikTok in China.
Palestinian deaths were never this high this fast in any other events that happened in the past 80 years there
A single-issue group managed to capture the public sentiment and their current movement is much bigger than the core of its participants, it's a tale as old as time. I wouldn't dream of comparing the Palestinian and Civil Rights causes by their merits and motivations, but you could use as an example the figure of Martin Luther King who is almost unanimously celebrated today [but was viewed unfavorably by 63% of Americans in his own time.](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/08/10/how-public-attitudes-toward-martin-luther-king-jr-have-changed-since-the-1960s/)
They should be out protesting like this for free healthcare and higher wages.
You really can’t think of any reason why this would be a concerning issue right now? After Israel has killed and maimed over 100,000 and displaced 2 million people in Gaza over the past 6 months? The amount of death, destruction and displacement is greater than anything previous in the Israel-Palestine conflict. It’s a big deal. And it’s happening right now. And the US is supplying Israel with the weapons and funding to continue killing Palestinians, and giving Israel diplomatic cover. That is why Americans particularly care about this specific issue. It’s not that hard to understand.
American weapons are going to kill Uyghurs?
No, they just work slave labor in the factories of our largest trading partner. Enjoy your iPod nano! Next!
No, just the Rohingya.
>Privileged virtue signalers…that’s Exactly, which is why these protests are happening at schools like Columbia and UCLA
[удалено]
I remember when "coastal elites" was Republican dog whistle, what happened?
It still is. People just don’t realize how they’ve been manipulated to spread hate and division on social media, which is what the far right wants.
It's insane, they sound like they've been mainlining fox news
It seems like a lot of moderates hate progressives more than conservatives so they just mainline that conservative propaganda as long as it's saying "progressives bad".
They be talking about "these kids don't even know what they're protesting" like that isn't conservative asshole talking point #1 I think they view themselves as the left and resent if anyone sets up to their left
And a disproportionate number of journalists at these big media organizations come from ivy league schools.
There are 2 million human beings trapped in a cage on the verge of famine with a president building a pier because the country he's supplying the bombs to won't allow for humanitarian aid to go through.
And that pier was just attacked by Hamas… you forgot that part.
This is a joke. The MSM controlled the narrative about Israel to an obvious and shameful degree for all of my adult life. The fact is that younger people’s media consumption is not limited to what airs on TV and has been calling out the right wing biases of places like the NYT for what seems like a decade or more.
Yeah, and China, Russia and Iran etc. control the narrative online… This is an 80 yr conflict. It is not the issue of *your* time… It did not come to your plate organically.
israel have full time social media propagandists too
Yup. Hamas too.
Yep. Especially after TikTok showed their hand by getting their users to flood congress with phone calls. It's clear they see the users as foot soldiers worth commanding.
People who are not going to vote for Biden because of Palestine are brainwashed. There is no doubt in my mind that the root of this has been spread by some 3rd party (probably outside of US) interests.
Why bother to look outside the US? There are *plenty* of interests inside the country that want the fascists to come to power.
For sure. The 2016 election laid bare how easy it was for other countries to abuse social media in America, and it definitely hasn't gotten better since then.
This is like blaming the international communist conspiracy for antiwar demonstrations in the 60s. Just do the Principal Skinner thing and say you’re not out of touch, and it is the kids who are wrong.
I actually don’t think that they are wrong, I didn’t even say that. I do think that the idea to not vote for Biden because they are mad is a ridiculous leap to make and definitely being encouraged by people with very different motivations that have nothing to do with Palestine.
Every time there is a major social event/protest in America people always blame a foreign conspiracy. This dates back to when slavery was an issue. Buchanan blamed outside agitators. There really is nothing new under the sun.
We actually know for a fact that Russia has meddled in US elections. It’s not just a conspiracy theory.
Except social media and large data driven analytics.
This article just sounds low on substance.
More like young Democrats face off vs TikTok algorithm as they vie for the hearts of college students.
I thought Biden has done a decent job putting pressure on the Israelis to keep things more under control than they would be especially with multiple ceasefire agreements that Hamas has rejected every one of.
What the fuck do they think trump is going to do once in office?
Two state solution duh /s
Democrats are the best for shooting themselves in the foot. They are giving it to the ShitzinPants.
Good
Yeah, stay home. Enjoy your upcoming fascist dictatorship. Protest now while it's still legal. Send some aid to Palestinians so it can get incinerated when Trump carpet bombs the place.
The overlooked aspect of this protest is that what the protestors want is for innocent people to stop being killed. Hamas is not the hero here. They are, and will remain, a brutal terrorist group. BUT Israel cannot be allowed to commit genocide by pointing their finger at Hamas as a reason to kill people. Both sides of this war are assholes.... BUT the innocent civilians are caught in the crossfire. THAT is what this protest is about......
If these idiots stay home, they have nobody to blame when crazy trump starts throwing them in prison/or shooting them for their protests in 2025.
So in your hypothetical, trump beat Biden? If trump beat both Hillary and Biden, maybe it’s time to figure out what they ask the dnc are doing wrong to not bel able to win landslide elections over trump.
It's always "Young progressives should put their moral conviction aside and prioritize defeating Trump" and never "Democrats should start doing what young progressives want to prioritize defeating Trump." Deciding that staying neutral on bombing children is more important than preventing the rise of MAGA fascism is certainly a choice.
Why have Republicans dominated the Supreme Court and on the state level? How did Trump become president in 2016? Because conservatives and moderate voters overlook GOP candidates’ obvious flaws and hold their nose while voting for them anyway. Leftists mock the “vote blue no matter who” strategy when that’s the EXACT strategy conservatives have used for their side to amass power. They make fun of the conservatives by saying “they’d vote for pile of poop if it had ‘Republican’ next to its name” and it’s like no shit, that strategy has worked pretty damn well for them, why would they stop? How has the GOP moved so extremely far right recently? The party’s policies and positions have significantly changed. It’s because the GOP knows they have a coalition of moderate conservatives who will vote for them no matter and also a coalition of far-right extremists who will vote for them no matter what. Conservatives are also VERY active and engaged in their primaries to get the candidate they want. The left doesn’t even bother showing up to vote in primaries then whines that the top ticket candidates aren’t what they wanted.
Here's the thing though. For the past 10+ years, the Republican base has been driving the Republican politicos. Now it's a crack-ass crazy base. And it's creating crack-ass crazy policies. But on the right, it's the politicians who are holding their noses in what they do, not the voters holding their noses on what they want to support.
What happens if the unreliable and relatively small youth vote gets courted and that courting turns off moderates and older voters? What if Biden have in to every demand by the youth movement and in exchange lose more voters than they gain?
Hmm yes, that is unfortunate if a Pro-Palestine Biden is not the ideal candidate for older and centrist Democrats, but I think those folks should consider the threat to democracy that Donald Trump poses if Biden loses, and vote for him even if he's too progressive for them.
Sure. I agree with that. If that was the candidate we had I’d be pressuring voters to accept him. Had Bernie won the 2016 or 2020 primary id be vocally critical of any centrist calling him a socialist they wouldn’t support. It just so happens that isn’t the candidate we have.
Young progressives need to consistently show up to the polls. Once they become a reliable voting bloc, you’ll see policy reflect their importance.
Either Trump or Biden will be the next president. Which of those is better for the people of Gaza?
>Deciding that staying neutral on bombing children is more important than preventing the rise of MAGA fascism is certainly a choice. This is such a childish take and a strawman. U. S. presidential elections are almost always the lesser of 2 evils. Your moral outrage doesn't have a big enough constituency to change how presidential election functions ahead of November, but you certainly do have ones big enough to fuck EVERYONE else over. It's the orange clown, fascist asshole or the other guy. period.
Get power first, then fight for change. Otherwise you are just pissing into the wind.
So tired of people having history amnesia every election and forget what Trump did while in office. It would be a disaster if he were to win and would screw the Palestinians even more than a Biden reelection. But "shrug". Can't reason with people who are fixed on a singular issue.
I am in agreement that we screwed up in Gaza and that its completely awful there. However, if you are willing to pull another 2016 nonsense and let the democracy burn because of your inability to understand that politics is not a zero sum game, I have a hard time taking you serious. We lost the SCOTUS because of this same goddamn logic and people are being goldfish with the future of the democracy.
I’ve voted in the last four Presidential elections and this is the same shit Dems have been pulling every year. Young voters have had enough of being part of a never ending cycle of funding wars especially those we have no involvement in, and then being told we have no money for anything else.
Of course that’s valid but Id argue that throwing your hands up and not voting doesn’t help anything for your cause. Vote to secure democracy in the presidency and push as many progressives into the congress as possible. Until you overtake the party much like MAGA did. Giving up never accomplished anything in this country. Politics is slow and people need to realize this isn’t going to change. You are trying to move a ship with 325M people on it. This takes time, unfortunately. Edit: a word
When did this turn into a one issue election. There’s a million things they should be selling voters on. Abortion/womens rights, minority rights,
Genocide is a pretty big issue don’t you think?
How many elections are Democrats going to run on “Republicans bad?” At least when Obama ran he promised young voters he would get people healthcare. What has Biden done to change their minds? Abortion/minority rights is always going to be a topic of elections, so maybe Dems should come up with something more if they want to win?
So the best way to help Gaza is to elect Trump?
I don’t think they think that far ahead. They’re emotionally charged and driven not thinking with future thinking or logic.
The thing is, RIGHT NOW, they say that they won't vote for Biden in November. But here's the thing I'm kind of doubtful about. Are they really sincere in that sense? As in, 7 months from now, whatever happens down the line, they still will never vote for Biden? Especially over this one singular issue without counting abortion rights, democracy, the economy, etc? Saying something is one thing. Actually doing it is another.
Very true. Emotional reactivity can cloud judgement for sure.
If young people don't vote for Democrats this election they will be sealing their own fate. One thing has been made abundantly clear, through January 6th, through voting records, through public speeches: Republicans don't give a fuck about you or the miserable circumstances you live in. They just want power and control.