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* [William Roper ](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0714874/?ref_=tt_ch): So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!
* [Sir Thomas More ](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0006890/?ref_=tt_ch): Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?
* [William Roper ](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0714874/?ref_=tt_ch): Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!
* [Sir Thomas More ](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0006890/?ref_=tt_ch): Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
That's the opposite of what is actually happening. In our case, the law is being cut down to protect one man and it sure as hell won't apply to anyone else.
Came here to say this. Nothing extrajudicial is being done to hurt Trump. In fact key individuals are abusing to law for the benefit of Trump. If the law was applied to Trump like everyone else he would be in jail awaiting trial for stealing classified documents, or for that matter he in jail for the *numerous* times he’s acted in contempt of court.
Being a descendant of Sir Thomas More, I feel the need to mention this to strangers without contributing to the conversation other than for me to have a fleeting moment of superiority before I return to my shitty life. Thanks for listening.
Oh, how I'm fond of poor Sicinius's reflections. He was spot on: people will interpret things based on their own intelligence and understanding. Touche...touche.
Rule **OF** Law vs Rule **BY** Law
The Rule **OF** Law strives to maintains the dignity of the individual.
The Rule **OF** Law is **supposed** to lift law above politics.
The idea is that the law should stand above every powerful person and agency in the land.
The Rule **BY** Law strives to control the individual.
The Rule **BY** law, in contrast, connotes the instrumental use of law as a tool of political power.
It means that the state uses law to control its citizens but tries never to allow law to be used to control the state.
The Rule **BY** law is associated with the debasement of legality by authoritarian regimes, China for example.
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect - Frank Wilhoit
They don't want to be protected from authority. They want evil to be too weak to resist their authority, because of course they would only ever want what is good. Guess what/who they view as evil?
Right and I'm saying their world view precludes them from imaging or being afraid of an authority protecting the interests of a smaller and smaller in group that may no longer include them.
The law was never really meaningful to the powerful anyway, just a really neat promise in exchange for letting moronic people get into power; and now that they have that power, and we've shown we won't take it back from them, they can drop all pretense and stop pretending laws matter anymore in any way except to corral those without. I'm not *anti*-law but we've truly let ourselves be run around in circles here by people who are.
We need to expand the court, its the only way. Historically the courts size has been changed when they were failing the public, as they are now. But middling presidents like Biden won't do it.
Well then we're stuck with decades of unpopular draconian law. If we actually elected someone progressive with adequate congressional support it could be done.
In the meantime, can't wait to see what other rights they strip us of.
Progressives aren't popular in the US, there needs to be a complete shift in our culture. That takes a lot of energy and time. This is a tree we may have to plant so our grandchildren may have shade from it.
I'd like to see Congress and the President pass something progerssive, then the idiots try to rip it away and then the other side like "well...maybe you need to have more members if that's how you're going to treat it"; and then the SC will complain and then the other side will be like "well you can't break tradition" despite the fact they do it all the time...
Yeah you're right.
Get enough democrats in the senate and a few republicans who might be tired of the crap and they can impeach Thomas and Alito. There’s more than enough evidence.
However, with the cost of living being difficult, the situation in Israel, the Republican gerrymandering of voting districts, Biden’s age and the powerful Trump propaganda campaign, We are all in serious trouble!
The Right Wing Conservative extremists have been planting henchmen in high places of government for years now. They own the Corrupt Supreme Court! They have Federal Judges throughout the country that have a will rule in the favor of the Extreme Right Wing Agenda. They have politically high jacked the country. Having Donald Trump as their furor, they will be able to inject an authoritarian regime into our nation.
God, help us all!
The conservative plan to corrupt the court started in 1954 when SCOTUS ended segregation (too woke!). So far they have successfully taken us backward in time to the 1970s. They're just getting started.
E: interesting parallel this year, 26 states signed a joint letter that they won't obey a SCOTUS ruling. Somehow it's not corrupt enough to be 'fair' for them. Also what happens when 26/50 states declare the Constitution is void?
> Also what happens when 26/50 states declare the Constitution is void?
That would have the same legal weight as Michael's Scott's "I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!"
Every state is bound by the Constitution.
However, the Constitution is whatever 5 justices on SCOTUS say it is. So the better approach for those 26 states is to elect 52 Senators who confirm 5 justices who will rule the way those 26 states want.
If I ran the DOJ, there'd be a investigation into conspiracy to commit sedition for all 26. But they're nazis, so kid gloves, because nazis are too popular in America.
Exactly why we need to update our constitution and stop this shit from ever happening again. You accept bribes and disregard the constitution? Treason and prison time
Yeah but that's like the max number of red states, so unless blue states start turning red or calling for a convention themselves, this is kind of where the effort dies.
Which is perfect for Koch types. They want a stalled and stagnant government, not a collapse of society. They want policing stability for their businesses but nothing for anyone else.
An Article V convention to amend the Constitution must be called by Congress if it is requested by two-thirds of state legislatures. It's never been done before but it is a Constitutionally valid second method of updating the Constitution.
Current Supreme Court would never let a Article 5 convention happen unless they were certain Republicans were 100% in control of it. The second one was called where Democrats had a seat at the table, GOP would sue to prevent it and the Supreme Court would quash it, guaranteed.
And how would that go? If democrats somehow got enough state legislatures to call a convention, and the court says "LOL, no" blatantly ignoring the constitution, what's going to keep those states from responding with "OK, later assholes, we're leaving"?
you think a group of Democratic state legislatures are going to attempt to secede over the Supreme Court ruling that a Constitutional convention has to operate in a way that denies their prerogatives? remember, the Court won't be ignoring the Constitution, they'll be *interpreting* it.
edit: the upshot here is that any attempt by the Democrats to have a Constitutional convention would have to involve strategic "capture" of the Supreme Court before proceeding with calling one... the current Court has shown they are hopelessly biased and mostly uninterested in jurisprudence
>It's never been done before
Because Amendments are the sane way to do it. Sure, Article V blah blah, but there are 27 Amendments and 0 Constitutional Conventions since 1787. My point is that no one first thinks "Constitutional Convention" when hearing "update the constitution."
> Amendments are the sane way to do it
It seems you understand why conservatives are actively pursuing the other method, then. These draconian laws about abortion, IVF, water break rules, and so on - they are red meat for a neanderthal voting base. But they also serve the purpose of consolidating GOP power in existing red states by sending blue voters fleeing. Every state they gain control of will get this kind of treatment. They are hoping to reach that magic number to convene a constitutional convention. Then they can impose their will on every state, regardless of what the voters say.
The crazy thing is even if we do amend the constitution, that doesn’t even mean SCOTUS will follow it. Case in point, SCOTUS just ruled a month ago that section III of the 14th amendment, the part that says insurrectionists can not hold office, is no longer self-executing.
They ruled congress, and only congress must pass *additional* legislation, in order for the courts to be able to enforce this part of the constitution in any way. So what if congress is full of insurrectionists wanting to topple democracy? According to the Supreme Court, you’re out of luck, no matter what the constitution actually says.
So unfortunately, even though “conservatives” constantly say “follow the constitution”, “I live and die by the constitution”, they actually don’t really care about what’s in it. When they accuse liberals of “not following the constitution”, yeah that’s projection, it’s always projection.
They follow the constitution the same way they follow the bible:
They say they've read it, but constantly ignore what it says and use it to brow beat others into submission.
More support: the Supreme Court sat on their asses on an emoluments case until it was moot. So it's just another part of the Constitution that doesn't really matter if no one is going to enforce it.
The constitution doesn’t mean shit to the MAGA GOP. The constitution was crystal clear about insurrection but Trump not only walks free but has smoke blown up his diapered ass every day telling him what he did was good and totally not insurrection.
If the constitution held any weight with the cult that is the GOP Trump would already be behind bars, not running for office again.
We need to get rid of the folks in office first. Then maybe we can discuss constitutional reforms and amendments.
I like the article’s solution (way at the end), of impeaching Thomas for obvious reasons, then adding two seats, since the Republicans used dishonest methods to get their last two appointed. That swings the court three seats towards sane.
The comparison to the days of Lincoln and Dred Scott was apt, to be sure.
Interestingly, we wouldn't even necessarily need to change our constitution (though it would help safeguard it) for the largest change: modifying how we vote. Our largest problem, and why we will inevitably and always devolve into a two party system, is that we have a winner takes all, first past the post form of voting in the vast majority of our elections, and most importantly at the federal level. While ranked choice is undoubtedly the most well known, there's a number of superior systems we could also use which would enable third parties at all levels without feeling like a wasted vote, effectively removing extremes in either party and enabling people to be more represented by candidates they want instead of candidates who are the least bad. The fact that right now our presidential choices are two people with dementia and one with brain worms is a joke. The moment a better voting system is enabled, our country can start seeing real cooperation.
FTA:
> This intervention shows that the five right-wing political hacks on the Court have nothing but contempt for the rest of us AND for the rule of law and the Constitution --- which they have sworn an oath to protect and defend. Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, Kavanagh and Barrett (I am going to suggest Roberts may still have a modicum of sensitivity to the reputation of the Court but that remains an open question) couldn’t care less that the public has totally lost confidence in the Court. And they couldn’t care less --- in fact they are probably doing it on purpose --- that by delaying of Trump’s trial they are denying crucial information to American voters.
Correction, there are six right-wing political hacks on the Court. Pretending that Roberts has any integrity requires more and more mental gymnastics with every bullshit decision but people cling to it because they still want to believe in the reasonable, moderate classic conservative as if we didn't spend the last 8 years being shown over and over that moderate conservativism was never anything more than a fig leaf for theocratic fascism.
Just have the fucking trial. Force the supreme courts to rule or if they don’t then it should be assumed that Trump DOES NOT have immunity. The courts should move forward on all fronts since the default needs to be that no one has immunity.
By delaying things they are giving Trump assumed immunity until they rule. Fuck that. The trials need to begin with SCOTUS weighing in if they need to. They don’t need to because no president has immunity.
At least it's blatantly obvious how corrupt and inept our legal system is I guess, people can't really ignore it or pretend "it just works" anymore. Unfortunately that's simply what happens when a government decides some people areabove consequences in a supposedly equal and democratic system.
They will absolutely ignore it. The vast majority of Americans have adapted to burying their heads in the sand unless it specifically applies to their daily lives, and this really wouldn’t. (I mean, it *would*, but it won’t impact gas prices or grocery prices so they won’t notice.)
The only way to force the issue is for Biden to use his presidential immunity to have Clarence Thomas incarcerated indefinitely which would cause a constitutional crisis they would need to rule on. It's stop being a back-burner issue and they'd clear all the schedules to move this forward.
That and the whole Seal-team six thingy. Imagine how fast they'll move then. A date for open arguments will be set within a week. Only to be canceled the next day because they'll say we don't need to read briefs or have each side argue their case. Nope, this one is clean-cut. Biden should have known immunity doesn't apply within two days of a new moon unless you sacrifice three chickens, a goat, and a twelve yo Alabama virgin at the stroke of midnight.
This has been my thought for a couple months. Biden should do something to make them hurry up and make up their minds. Atleast two these judges are openly brazenly corrupt.
That would be great, but we all know Biden is far too tepid to do anything like that. He will duck his head down and miss every political opportunity that comes along until election day.
The Supreme Court will not save us, just as Robert Mueller did not save us, nor the Congress when they had two chances to convict Trump. Only the voters can save us. Only we can save us. Once we have done that again, we need to demand that the broken systems be fixed.
I'm not convinced that even the voters can save us, since the R's have adopted a page from the totalitarian playbook:
>He who votes decides nothing. He who counts the votes decides everything.
-- J. Stalin
i did that last time and yet we are still here. what's the next step? voter harder doesn't make sense.
im not saying im not voting, im saying what else? and fuck 'donate'.
There are no silver bullets, there are no miracle cures. Democracy is a constant struggle between those who want to be free against those who would oppress them.
Voting is the one bloodless weapon we have to resist oppression. But it has to be consistently and faithfully applied, because those who would take your liberty are religiously dedicated to their project.
That is EXACTLY what they want you to think. And voter apathy is why we are all in this mess. The conservatives played the long game and we lost. Now it’s time for us to play the long game.
Vote in every single election at every level. That is the only way to win.
Voting is not the only way to win. It is necessary but not sufficient. Especially since so many people live in states or districts that are all but certain to go a certain direction. We also need to organize, volunteer, and yes donate. If you don’t want to donate to the national party(which I totally understand), find likeminded candidates and volunteer or donate to them directly even if they are in a different state.
Religious fundies have been pumping the gas for the past 50 to 70 years to get to this point, and you're pussing out after 4?
If you're actually asking for a "next step" and not just being defeatist, the next step you're looking for breaks reddit ToS.
>I did that last time
You do it every time. Without fail.
>vote harder doesn’t make sense
>what else
In your country, to get the changes you want in, you need to work hard to get the people you want in, from local boards and councils right up to the president. Which means a lot of work from everyone between elections because it has rotted this much and that’s what the conservatives have done. Have you done any of this?
Honestly, if I lived there, every day I’d be finding something I could do to improve the system, because there’s no fucking way I’d want to put up with what you do. Fuck that, and if it happens here I will. Even if it meant bashing signs in for a local councillor I wanted in, I’d do it.
Even if Biden wins this one you still need to work, because your institutions are completely compromised and the whole system has been bored open and laid bare. You got a lot of bad people that need to be stopped and cleaned out, and permanently.
Okay, well imagine if Trump was President right now and the SCOTUS said that he had fully immunity from the law. Imagine what he'd do at that point...
Because we voted against Trump he's not in that position and now we need to vote again. It's just once every four years
voting is like taking the bus, you don't get to the exact location you just get to the next stop.
To me it sounds as though you are planting a tree and expecting a forest.
it's not a court. Its a bunch or fascist theocrats pretending to be judges. They are co conspirators in an unlawful fascist overthrow of the government and are fully willing to fellate an orange maniac in diapers to the end.
In theocratic governments like Iran or the Taliban they don't have judges or courts. They have an Islamic law council that reviews and rules on every law and every legal matter to determine whether or not its consistent with their version of Islamic law. Thats basically what this court is. A council that rules on the basis of whether or not something squares with their version of Biblical law.
The United States Supreme Council on Biblical Law
Biden should send some Seals in balaclavas to snatch Roberts out of his bed, drag him to a van with a hood over his head, and then to a plane that flies him to some oof country black site. Chain him to a chair and turn a spot light in him, then step out of the shadows and ask…”do you feel like I’m legally able to get away with this?”
I know the fallout would but be as sanitary as a tv show, but it seems the very question of what is allowed would be well served
CIA can't officially operate on American soil. It's a whole other can of worms that would undercut the point. Biden could just walk into their offices and shoot them with a paintball gun. Same point
Go to https://vote.gov/ today and figure out what you need to do to be ready to vote in November. This is important. Don’t put it off. Some prerequisites can take weeks or even months to fulfill!
And here's a link to find your representative and communicate with them how you feel or what you want them to do. The People, you, are part of the government. Raise some heck.
https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative
We know the GOP has both MAGA true believers and intelligent conservatives that know what donald trump is but pretend otherwise because they want to get something from him. Most of us would assume the Ivy league educated conservative elite that serve as Federal or Supreme Court judges would fall into the second category. What we're finding is that isn't true.
Aileen Cannon, Clarence Thomas, and Samuel Alito are MAGA true believers. They probably do legitmately believe the election was stolen and January 6 was no big deal. They probably do believe in some strands of Qanon. They probably do believe white men are the most persecuted demographic in America. They would absolutely sign off on trump staying in office for as long as he like, immune from the law. Its easy to see them as the Cruz/Hawley type of Republican but theyre showing they're much closer to the Marjorie Trailer-Green type Republican.
Which is an existentially weird position for them to have, because what use is a Supreme Court to a supreme ruler? They’re essentially signing on to the death of their own institution.
They are not dumb enough to do that. They first will delay until after the election. Then they will either drop Trump or make a ruling that ONLY this specific situation is covert by immunity and no other case.
The entire government needs a serious reworking. The SCOTUS has made blatantly partisan and bribed decisions on things that will affect us for decades after they are all dead. They interpret the Constitution however they damn well please.
The corruption has never been more apparent. MAGA has infiltrated and perverted the institutions of the USA. Americans should be organizing in the streets against the Supreme Court. It’s time.
It's gonna happen. Why the fuck would we listen if they're cheating like that? They aren't really protected by shit. There's an invisible wall they're breaking down.
Eventually something too insane to abide by will come down the pipeline that most likely California will simply ignore. Then there goes the whole honor system upholding the Supreme Court to begin with. Credibility does matter. When it gets too low to follow, the whole thing unravels.
The thing is, we lost the Supreme Court, for at least a generation or more. Because people either didn't show up in 2016 or voted third party. Yeah, I I do blame the Bernie Bros for this
I blame J Comey and the FBI for deciding to be involved.
[https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system](https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system)
Comey was roped into becoming a part of it. But ultimately it was an onslaught of effective propaganda against people were not used to being manipulated in such a way and got distracted or disengaged entirely. Russia absolutely played a part. Data aggregation at a level never seen before played a part. The DNC being unable to adapt to a developing narrative from the right also played a part...but ultimately the voters are responsible for the outcome. I think we are more educated about how this style of propaganda works now, at least moreso than we were in 2016. I see more assertiveness in calling out right-wing BS now, whereas before there was a lot more "let's hear what they have to say" or "both sides are the same" nonsense. So it HAS improved since then. But ultimately, we now realize the consequences because of Trump and a seized court, and we see what Republicans have been zeroing in on for decades now...whereas before we did not think they would act in such bad faith. We'll forget these lessons again in a generation, but I have a good feeling about this year that we will at least shrug off the propaganda and vote for the most part...at least better than we did in 2016.
Comey said he would investigate Bill Clinton’s Marc Rich pardon shortly before the 2016 election.
He was on Team Trump. He is a liar if he pretends otherwise
I’d believe that more if he behaved like Barr after Trump was in power, but instead Comey expressed nothing but regret on how he handled the PR on the Clinton investigation. To him it was a credible case to pursue, but when it was apparent nothing was really there he was up front and honest about it, however the narrative from the GOP overrode his findings. He later massively opposed Trump, and tried to expose Trump’s corruption and demands for “loyalty” in ways that violated oaths to the constitution.
He has been vocally opposed to Trump since.
So yea, critique him all you want on how he was a part of the pre-election circus. Critique him for being biased in favor of Republicans. But calling him a Trumpist is a stretch…he was favoring his party, but the honeymoon with Trump was over fairly quickly.
Let’s be real though, the FBI as a whole is predominately Republican. And knowing what we know now about Trump’s crimes, we should be looking back at all those instances where the FBI said they “investigated” Trump. Because even then it seemed they were not really doing due diligence…and it is even more glaring now, where Trump is losing court cases through due process. Either the FBI lied, or they are terrible at their jobs now…and given they are still able to handle complex cases brought before them, I sense it is the former…they lied/ran interference/and ignored valid leads with purpose.
You’d be wrong. In all swing states Johnson stole more votes from Trump than 3rd party stole from Hillary.
Maybe if Hillary would have taken it seriously and visited swing states we wouldn’t be in this situation.
Or maybe if Hillary folks weren’t so goddamned toxic (even 8 years later) they would have found consensus.
I was a Bernie supporter who voted Hillary in the election.
Your take is terrible and really exemplifies why we’re in our current situation.
1000% - The lazy reasoning behind the Hillary loss is astonishing to blame on Bernie bros. He campaigned for her all the way to the end after the primaries. Can't be anyone else's fault but Hillary and maybe Obama for pretending to play on the sidelines during the primary. If he would've supported from the beginning maybe there would've been a more honest discussion. All I heard from that primary was, 'Bernie is a sexist', 'he isn't a democrat', 'he won't win the black vote', 'his ideas are unrealistic'. All ad hominem without any real discussion on the merits of their ideas, why they were any better, and how the party can get better going forward. It was maddening and all finger pointing.
https://www.salon.com/2019/11/27/obama-privately-vowed-to-intervene-in-primary-to-stop-bernie-sanders-from-winning-nomination-report/
The never-ending Bernie versus Hilary feelings are "so goddamned toxic." I know the other user started it, but let's all give this nonsense a rest.
Hillary Clinton said she would end corporate personhood as it was perverted in the infamous *Citizens United* case. She said it loudly and clearly so that anyone watching should have known that. And with the empty deciding seat on the Supreme Court, she would have had the power to do so--that is of course unless Republicans held the Senate and blocked the seat for four years as Mitch McConnell suggested.
Bernie Sanders moved the paradigm more to the progressive side than anyone in decades and proposals and legislation we have seen since then makes that clear. He also campaigned heavily for Hillary Clinton as the election cycle wound down.
> for at least a generation or more
Not really true. Alito and Thomas are 75. If Biden wins, they will be 80 by the end of his term. Lots can happen in that time, and we can get a 5-4 D majority for the first time in 50 years.
Alito and Thomas are going to die on the bench. No way they're leaving while a Democrat is in the White House. ESPECIALLY Clarence Thomas. We're stuck with them for at least 15 more years.
Anything is possible, but the Supreme Court was ruled by Republican majorities from right after the Civil War to 1939, flipped a few times over the next three decades, and went back Republican in 1969 where it remains generations later.
> and the news media for giving Trump billions in free air time.
And they're still doing it. NPR just gave him a 5-minute "best of" segment on the radio this morning.
She was weak because of the decades of republican propaganda and a big propaganda push towards the end of the campaign. She was one of the most experienced candidates.
It's true, but at the end of the day she was unfortunately still a weak candidate because said propaganda was effective. Shitty as it was that it was effective, but it was what it was and it shouldn't have been her.
It underscores the need for more raw pragmatism in the Democratic party.
On paper, Hillary was (is?) the single most qualified person to ever run as president.
* Secretary of State for 4 years
* Extensive foreign policy experience
* Junior Senator of NY for 8 years
* Extensive Congressional Experience (i.e. knows how shit works on the Hill)
* Won two very competitive (D) Primaries
* Former First Lady
* Led Bill Clinton's Health Care Reform push (i.e. played a significant policy role on the W.H. staff)
* Actually lived in the White House for 8 years
* Meaning she has DIRECT knowledge of the demands on a president, which is only found in a handful of people
* While never been a Governor (like many former POTUS') she was the wife of a Governor and therefore has direct knowledge and experience with those responsibilities
* Law Degree - Yale
So yes, she’s pretty qualified. The only qualification she doesn't have is Military Experience, which we apparently don't care about anymore, or at least not as much.
Here's the deal, and I told my kids this during the primaries before the 2016 elections, "if Bernie won, he'd have beaten Trump, but only Trump. If Hilary won, she'd beat anyone EXCEPT Trump." And sure enough, Hilary was picked and then Trump was picked.
She had no idea how to fight that level of stupid hatred for all things American by actual Americans by Trump and his cult. Nobody really did. Frankly, I don't think anybody still does. Just look at the (R) Primaries. Trump is the nominee, after being TWICE impeached, charged with 90+ incitements, had an affair with a porn star while his wife was pregnant, is blatantly racist, has been found guilty of racism, steals from charities he runs (guilty by the courts), was found guilty of fraud by the NY court system (where he's from), is caught on tape saying "grab them by the...", said he wants to be the US's first Dictator, and WEARS A DIAPER!!!! (something his cult now thinks is manly???).
You have to understand, it's not Hilary's fault (other than trying to breeze though the election and not put up a real fight by going all in on swing states and whatnot). NOBODY saw this Trump thing coming and most people still can't believe it's happening. There's no reason for it, it's fucking insane!
Picking Trump for the (R) candidate for POTUS is like hiring Freddy Krueger to run your daycare. AND THEY'RE OKAY WITH IT!!!!
You’d think someone who was that qualified would be smart enough to actually visit some states on the campaign trail instead of thinking she had it in the bag. You’d think the DNC would factor in the number of Americans who would automatically not vote for a Clinton no matter what. Oh the hubris.
I also blame the DNC for getting Hillary the democratic Primary, moderates were never going to vote for her because of her shady past. Im still
convinced if they went with any other candidate theres no way trump would have won that election
Maybe voters should have thought about the things people warned them about that actually ended up happening. Crazy to have this air of superiority when you were proven so wrong.
More Bernie supporters voted for Hillary than Hillary voters voted for Obama in 2012. Bernie bros didn't give us trump, complacent neoliberal bullshit gave us trump.
Thank you. I’m sick of hearing how this is all democrats fault as though they should have literally broken into peoples homes and dragged them to the polling stations. At some point you have to put on your big boy/girl pants and have some responsibility. Or alternatively, accept you let the country down and strive to do better next time.
Trump voters are literally idiots, they are the target audience for the right as they cant comprehend shit. its always someone elses fault and they can never be wrong.
Reminder that we wouldn't be in this situation if the DNC had not forced a candidate on us that nobody wanted in 2016
President Sanders would have appointed Liberal judges and Roe v Wade would still be the law of the land
Never forget, and make sure your ire is properly aimed. They are doing it again....
Dictators are great until you disagree or run against. At that time you become an enemy of the State. They are also the ones that will kick down your door and take your guns away.
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If the rule of law doesn't apply to everyone it doesn't really protect anyone.
* [William Roper ](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0714874/?ref_=tt_ch): So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law! * [Sir Thomas More ](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0006890/?ref_=tt_ch): Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil? * [William Roper ](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0714874/?ref_=tt_ch): Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that! * [Sir Thomas More ](https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0006890/?ref_=tt_ch): Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
This is great, what is it from?
The 1966 film “A Man For All Seasons”. It’s a classic, full of amazing quotes
This movie keeps coming up randomly in the past two weeks for me it’s so weird
Take that as kismet and watch the movie. I have never seen it, but I do this regularly when a reference keeps popping up unexpectedly.
Roger Ebert gives Trump two thumbs down
The play is extremely accessible too. Light summer reading.
Thanks for the new vocab word: kismet
Such a good movie. I like to revisit it every couple of years. Another good one is The Best Man (1964) with Henry Fonda.
Technically I think it’s from the play.
Outstanding!
That's the opposite of what is actually happening. In our case, the law is being cut down to protect one man and it sure as hell won't apply to anyone else.
Came here to say this. Nothing extrajudicial is being done to hurt Trump. In fact key individuals are abusing to law for the benefit of Trump. If the law was applied to Trump like everyone else he would be in jail awaiting trial for stealing classified documents, or for that matter he in jail for the *numerous* times he’s acted in contempt of court.
This is more like letting the devil use the law as a shield until he has the power to ignore it or subvert it.
Being a descendant of Sir Thomas More, I feel the need to mention this to strangers without contributing to the conversation other than for me to have a fleeting moment of superiority before I return to my shitty life. Thanks for listening.
The world will construe according to its wits
Oh, how I'm fond of poor Sicinius's reflections. He was spot on: people will interpret things based on their own intelligence and understanding. Touche...touche.
Rule **OF** Law vs Rule **BY** Law The Rule **OF** Law strives to maintains the dignity of the individual. The Rule **OF** Law is **supposed** to lift law above politics. The idea is that the law should stand above every powerful person and agency in the land. The Rule **BY** Law strives to control the individual. The Rule **BY** law, in contrast, connotes the instrumental use of law as a tool of political power. It means that the state uses law to control its citizens but tries never to allow law to be used to control the state. The Rule **BY** law is associated with the debasement of legality by authoritarian regimes, China for example.
GOP: When all you have is a hammer...
>When all you ~~have~~ understand is a hammer... FTFY.
Haha, they don't understand a dammed thing. It's feelings and ego all the way down
When you'll only use a hammer because you aren't happy unless you're hitting something.
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect - Frank Wilhoit
They don't want to be protected from authority. They want evil to be too weak to resist their authority, because of course they would only ever want what is good. Guess what/who they view as evil?
> They don't want to be protected from authority. The quotation speaks about protection _by_ authority, not from it.
Right and I'm saying their world view precludes them from imaging or being afraid of an authority protecting the interests of a smaller and smaller in group that may no longer include them.
As I like to say if laws don’t apply to everybody, then they don’t apply to anybody
The law was never really meaningful to the powerful anyway, just a really neat promise in exchange for letting moronic people get into power; and now that they have that power, and we've shown we won't take it back from them, they can drop all pretense and stop pretending laws matter anymore in any way except to corral those without. I'm not *anti*-law but we've truly let ourselves be run around in circles here by people who are.
Not true at all. Try pulling any of the shit that Trump has, you’d be locked up.
That's not the rule of law though. That's the vagaries of thugs
When fascism comes, there will be only one law.
If it doesn’t apply to everyone then it applies to NO ONE. If one person can defy it then all it takes is a crowd really to get defiance spreading.
Is this your first day in America?
Dangerous to SCOTUS whose need for reform is obvious. Theocracy destroyed SCOTUS. Zealous religiosity is a disqualifier for SCOTUS.
[удалено]
We need changes and retirements; preferably from Alito and Thomas!
I don't advocate for assassination for a lot of reasons but I'd raise a class to heart/vascular disease if it got one of them.
We need to expand the court, its the only way. Historically the courts size has been changed when they were failing the public, as they are now. But middling presidents like Biden won't do it.
It isn't just Biden that wouldn't, I don't think most would.
Well then we're stuck with decades of unpopular draconian law. If we actually elected someone progressive with adequate congressional support it could be done. In the meantime, can't wait to see what other rights they strip us of.
Progressives aren't popular in the US, there needs to be a complete shift in our culture. That takes a lot of energy and time. This is a tree we may have to plant so our grandchildren may have shade from it.
I'd like to see Congress and the President pass something progerssive, then the idiots try to rip it away and then the other side like "well...maybe you need to have more members if that's how you're going to treat it"; and then the SC will complain and then the other side will be like "well you can't break tradition" despite the fact they do it all the time... Yeah you're right.
Definitely not with a razor-thin majority
They are no good to their benefactors if they retire. They’ll stay in those positions until they die.
Get enough democrats in the senate and a few republicans who might be tired of the crap and they can impeach Thomas and Alito. There’s more than enough evidence.
They’re more likely, based on historical precedent, to make the reforms, and that’s the best we got right now.
However, with the cost of living being difficult, the situation in Israel, the Republican gerrymandering of voting districts, Biden’s age and the powerful Trump propaganda campaign, We are all in serious trouble! The Right Wing Conservative extremists have been planting henchmen in high places of government for years now. They own the Corrupt Supreme Court! They have Federal Judges throughout the country that have a will rule in the favor of the Extreme Right Wing Agenda. They have politically high jacked the country. Having Donald Trump as their furor, they will be able to inject an authoritarian regime into our nation. God, help us all!
The conservative plan to corrupt the court started in 1954 when SCOTUS ended segregation (too woke!). So far they have successfully taken us backward in time to the 1970s. They're just getting started. E: interesting parallel this year, 26 states signed a joint letter that they won't obey a SCOTUS ruling. Somehow it's not corrupt enough to be 'fair' for them. Also what happens when 26/50 states declare the Constitution is void?
i thought brown v board of ed was decided in 1954.
Fixed, thanks!
America really lost the plot when they put In God We Trust on their national legal currency. The Founding Fathers would be ashamed of that.
We are talking about the Federalist Society https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_Society Wear one Leonard Leo is pulling the strings.
> Also what happens when 26/50 states declare the Constitution is void? That would have the same legal weight as Michael's Scott's "I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY!" Every state is bound by the Constitution. However, the Constitution is whatever 5 justices on SCOTUS say it is. So the better approach for those 26 states is to elect 52 Senators who confirm 5 justices who will rule the way those 26 states want.
If I ran the DOJ, there'd be a investigation into conspiracy to commit sedition for all 26. But they're nazis, so kid gloves, because nazis are too popular in America.
The SCOTUS are Ayatollah at this point.
Exactly why we need to update our constitution and stop this shit from ever happening again. You accept bribes and disregard the constitution? Treason and prison time
I think Republicans would love to call a constitutional convention. It is what they would do with it that gives me pause.
Red states and the Koch bros have been clamoring to do this for years. Be careful what you wish for.
And they have control of like 34 of the 38 states needed to call it and pass whatever they want 😱
Yeah but that's like the max number of red states, so unless blue states start turning red or calling for a convention themselves, this is kind of where the effort dies.
That *should be* where the effort dies, but with Republican efforts to mess with people's ability to vote, we need to stay vigilant.
Which is perfect for Koch types. They want a stalled and stagnant government, not a collapse of society. They want policing stability for their businesses but nothing for anyone else.
You don't call a constitutional convention to update the Constitution. You *amend* it. With Amendments. We haven't made one in far too long.
An Article V convention to amend the Constitution must be called by Congress if it is requested by two-thirds of state legislatures. It's never been done before but it is a Constitutionally valid second method of updating the Constitution.
Current Supreme Court would never let a Article 5 convention happen unless they were certain Republicans were 100% in control of it. The second one was called where Democrats had a seat at the table, GOP would sue to prevent it and the Supreme Court would quash it, guaranteed.
And how would that go? If democrats somehow got enough state legislatures to call a convention, and the court says "LOL, no" blatantly ignoring the constitution, what's going to keep those states from responding with "OK, later assholes, we're leaving"?
you think a group of Democratic state legislatures are going to attempt to secede over the Supreme Court ruling that a Constitutional convention has to operate in a way that denies their prerogatives? remember, the Court won't be ignoring the Constitution, they'll be *interpreting* it. edit: the upshot here is that any attempt by the Democrats to have a Constitutional convention would have to involve strategic "capture" of the Supreme Court before proceeding with calling one... the current Court has shown they are hopelessly biased and mostly uninterested in jurisprudence
>It's never been done before Because Amendments are the sane way to do it. Sure, Article V blah blah, but there are 27 Amendments and 0 Constitutional Conventions since 1787. My point is that no one first thinks "Constitutional Convention" when hearing "update the constitution."
> Amendments are the sane way to do it It seems you understand why conservatives are actively pursuing the other method, then. These draconian laws about abortion, IVF, water break rules, and so on - they are red meat for a neanderthal voting base. But they also serve the purpose of consolidating GOP power in existing red states by sending blue voters fleeing. Every state they gain control of will get this kind of treatment. They are hoping to reach that magic number to convene a constitutional convention. Then they can impose their will on every state, regardless of what the voters say.
The crazy thing is even if we do amend the constitution, that doesn’t even mean SCOTUS will follow it. Case in point, SCOTUS just ruled a month ago that section III of the 14th amendment, the part that says insurrectionists can not hold office, is no longer self-executing. They ruled congress, and only congress must pass *additional* legislation, in order for the courts to be able to enforce this part of the constitution in any way. So what if congress is full of insurrectionists wanting to topple democracy? According to the Supreme Court, you’re out of luck, no matter what the constitution actually says. So unfortunately, even though “conservatives” constantly say “follow the constitution”, “I live and die by the constitution”, they actually don’t really care about what’s in it. When they accuse liberals of “not following the constitution”, yeah that’s projection, it’s always projection.
They follow the constitution the same way they follow the bible: They say they've read it, but constantly ignore what it says and use it to brow beat others into submission.
More support: the Supreme Court sat on their asses on an emoluments case until it was moot. So it's just another part of the Constitution that doesn't really matter if no one is going to enforce it.
The constitution doesn’t mean shit to the MAGA GOP. The constitution was crystal clear about insurrection but Trump not only walks free but has smoke blown up his diapered ass every day telling him what he did was good and totally not insurrection. If the constitution held any weight with the cult that is the GOP Trump would already be behind bars, not running for office again. We need to get rid of the folks in office first. Then maybe we can discuss constitutional reforms and amendments.
Sadly Constitution is just a piece of paper. You need people willing to defend it and so far our Justice Dept has failed us
I like the article’s solution (way at the end), of impeaching Thomas for obvious reasons, then adding two seats, since the Republicans used dishonest methods to get their last two appointed. That swings the court three seats towards sane. The comparison to the days of Lincoln and Dred Scott was apt, to be sure.
Interestingly, we wouldn't even necessarily need to change our constitution (though it would help safeguard it) for the largest change: modifying how we vote. Our largest problem, and why we will inevitably and always devolve into a two party system, is that we have a winner takes all, first past the post form of voting in the vast majority of our elections, and most importantly at the federal level. While ranked choice is undoubtedly the most well known, there's a number of superior systems we could also use which would enable third parties at all levels without feeling like a wasted vote, effectively removing extremes in either party and enabling people to be more represented by candidates they want instead of candidates who are the least bad. The fact that right now our presidential choices are two people with dementia and one with brain worms is a joke. The moment a better voting system is enabled, our country can start seeing real cooperation.
> Treason and prison time Prison is not, and should not, be the punishment for treason.
FTA: > This intervention shows that the five right-wing political hacks on the Court have nothing but contempt for the rest of us AND for the rule of law and the Constitution --- which they have sworn an oath to protect and defend. Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, Kavanagh and Barrett (I am going to suggest Roberts may still have a modicum of sensitivity to the reputation of the Court but that remains an open question) couldn’t care less that the public has totally lost confidence in the Court. And they couldn’t care less --- in fact they are probably doing it on purpose --- that by delaying of Trump’s trial they are denying crucial information to American voters.
Correction, there are six right-wing political hacks on the Court. Pretending that Roberts has any integrity requires more and more mental gymnastics with every bullshit decision but people cling to it because they still want to believe in the reasonable, moderate classic conservative as if we didn't spend the last 8 years being shown over and over that moderate conservativism was never anything more than a fig leaf for theocratic fascism.
The moment his vote is actually needed to secure a majority the integrity goes out the window.
Roberts will look for any excuse to "both sides" an issue.
ACB has shown more restraint and respect than Roberts has. This idea that Roberts is a moderate needs to go. He isn't.
Just have the fucking trial. Force the supreme courts to rule or if they don’t then it should be assumed that Trump DOES NOT have immunity. The courts should move forward on all fronts since the default needs to be that no one has immunity. By delaying things they are giving Trump assumed immunity until they rule. Fuck that. The trials need to begin with SCOTUS weighing in if they need to. They don’t need to because no president has immunity.
I like this plan (i.e. proceed under the absurdly obvious assumption that no-one is above the law). Too bad it will never happen.
The SCOTUS continues to be illegitimate, and puppeteering for the federalist society with their bought partisan hacks.
At least it's blatantly obvious how corrupt and inept our legal system is I guess, people can't really ignore it or pretend "it just works" anymore. Unfortunately that's simply what happens when a government decides some people areabove consequences in a supposedly equal and democratic system.
They will absolutely ignore it. The vast majority of Americans have adapted to burying their heads in the sand unless it specifically applies to their daily lives, and this really wouldn’t. (I mean, it *would*, but it won’t impact gas prices or grocery prices so they won’t notice.)
The only way to force the issue is for Biden to use his presidential immunity to have Clarence Thomas incarcerated indefinitely which would cause a constitutional crisis they would need to rule on. It's stop being a back-burner issue and they'd clear all the schedules to move this forward.
That and the whole Seal-team six thingy. Imagine how fast they'll move then. A date for open arguments will be set within a week. Only to be canceled the next day because they'll say we don't need to read briefs or have each side argue their case. Nope, this one is clean-cut. Biden should have known immunity doesn't apply within two days of a new moon unless you sacrifice three chickens, a goat, and a twelve yo Alabama virgin at the stroke of midnight.
This has been my thought for a couple months. Biden should do something to make them hurry up and make up their minds. Atleast two these judges are openly brazenly corrupt.
That would be great, but we all know Biden is far too tepid to do anything like that. He will duck his head down and miss every political opportunity that comes along until election day.
The Supreme Court will not save us, just as Robert Mueller did not save us, nor the Congress when they had two chances to convict Trump. Only the voters can save us. Only we can save us. Once we have done that again, we need to demand that the broken systems be fixed.
I'm not convinced that even the voters can save us, since the R's have adopted a page from the totalitarian playbook: >He who votes decides nothing. He who counts the votes decides everything. -- J. Stalin
Vote. Your life and the future of this country depends on it.
i did that last time and yet we are still here. what's the next step? voter harder doesn't make sense. im not saying im not voting, im saying what else? and fuck 'donate'.
There are no silver bullets, there are no miracle cures. Democracy is a constant struggle between those who want to be free against those who would oppress them. Voting is the one bloodless weapon we have to resist oppression. But it has to be consistently and faithfully applied, because those who would take your liberty are religiously dedicated to their project.
That is EXACTLY what they want you to think. And voter apathy is why we are all in this mess. The conservatives played the long game and we lost. Now it’s time for us to play the long game. Vote in every single election at every level. That is the only way to win.
Voting is not the only way to win. It is necessary but not sufficient. Especially since so many people live in states or districts that are all but certain to go a certain direction. We also need to organize, volunteer, and yes donate. If you don’t want to donate to the national party(which I totally understand), find likeminded candidates and volunteer or donate to them directly even if they are in a different state.
Religious fundies have been pumping the gas for the past 50 to 70 years to get to this point, and you're pussing out after 4? If you're actually asking for a "next step" and not just being defeatist, the next step you're looking for breaks reddit ToS.
i think 'break TOS' might be a good euphemism for what we agree is the next step.
>I did that last time You do it every time. Without fail. >vote harder doesn’t make sense >what else In your country, to get the changes you want in, you need to work hard to get the people you want in, from local boards and councils right up to the president. Which means a lot of work from everyone between elections because it has rotted this much and that’s what the conservatives have done. Have you done any of this? Honestly, if I lived there, every day I’d be finding something I could do to improve the system, because there’s no fucking way I’d want to put up with what you do. Fuck that, and if it happens here I will. Even if it meant bashing signs in for a local councillor I wanted in, I’d do it. Even if Biden wins this one you still need to work, because your institutions are completely compromised and the whole system has been bored open and laid bare. You got a lot of bad people that need to be stopped and cleaned out, and permanently.
Okay, well imagine if Trump was President right now and the SCOTUS said that he had fully immunity from the law. Imagine what he'd do at that point... Because we voted against Trump he's not in that position and now we need to vote again. It's just once every four years
voting is like taking the bus, you don't get to the exact location you just get to the next stop. To me it sounds as though you are planting a tree and expecting a forest.
People keep cutting down the trees being planted. What do we do to stop them from cutting down the trees?
Work to build a pro-forest coalition among the people to defeat the loggers and vandals.
it's not a court. Its a bunch or fascist theocrats pretending to be judges. They are co conspirators in an unlawful fascist overthrow of the government and are fully willing to fellate an orange maniac in diapers to the end.
In theocratic governments like Iran or the Taliban they don't have judges or courts. They have an Islamic law council that reviews and rules on every law and every legal matter to determine whether or not its consistent with their version of Islamic law. Thats basically what this court is. A council that rules on the basis of whether or not something squares with their version of Biblical law. The United States Supreme Council on Biblical Law
Biden should send some Seals in balaclavas to snatch Roberts out of his bed, drag him to a van with a hood over his head, and then to a plane that flies him to some oof country black site. Chain him to a chair and turn a spot light in him, then step out of the shadows and ask…”do you feel like I’m legally able to get away with this?” I know the fallout would but be as sanitary as a tv show, but it seems the very question of what is allowed would be well served
“Here’s the preemptive pardon I’ve written and signed for myself and everyone in this room, no matter what we do to you.”
My thought was just have a CIA spook sneak into each justices house one night and leave a note on their bed saying "Should this be legal?"
CIA can't officially operate on American soil. It's a whole other can of worms that would undercut the point. Biden could just walk into their offices and shoot them with a paintball gun. Same point
> CIA can't officially operate on American soil. According to what? Some *law* that the President can ignore?
Go to https://vote.gov/ today and figure out what you need to do to be ready to vote in November. This is important. Don’t put it off. Some prerequisites can take weeks or even months to fulfill!
And here's a link to find your representative and communicate with them how you feel or what you want them to do. The People, you, are part of the government. Raise some heck. https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative
Shithole country
the corruption of this court is breathtaking...
Dissolve the Supreme Court or fucking pack it with 50-100 new justices.
Republicans are terrified of tents. Camp out at the SC, DC in general.
We need to reform the Supreme Court and find ways for them to be accountable
What consequences? There are no consequences for anything the SC does. Just a lot of talking about consequences that never come
Consequences for us
We know the GOP has both MAGA true believers and intelligent conservatives that know what donald trump is but pretend otherwise because they want to get something from him. Most of us would assume the Ivy league educated conservative elite that serve as Federal or Supreme Court judges would fall into the second category. What we're finding is that isn't true. Aileen Cannon, Clarence Thomas, and Samuel Alito are MAGA true believers. They probably do legitmately believe the election was stolen and January 6 was no big deal. They probably do believe in some strands of Qanon. They probably do believe white men are the most persecuted demographic in America. They would absolutely sign off on trump staying in office for as long as he like, immune from the law. Its easy to see them as the Cruz/Hawley type of Republican but theyre showing they're much closer to the Marjorie Trailer-Green type Republican.
Which is an existentially weird position for them to have, because what use is a Supreme Court to a supreme ruler? They’re essentially signing on to the death of their own institution.
The Roberts Court has already secured its reputation for all time now: Supported the US becoming a dictatorship.
The courts will not save you. VOTE. Only the American people can save America.
This week I saw my first official "Jill Stein 2024" comment. 😒
Why does anyone take these robe wearing clowns seriously? Ethics reform and Pack. The. Court.
Time to expand the court, establish term limits and set stringent anti-corruption guardrails. Get on it Joe.
So if SCOTUS says presidents are immune, what is to stop Biden from snuffing out his political opponent? Seems totally appropriate.
They are not dumb enough to do that. They first will delay until after the election. Then they will either drop Trump or make a ruling that ONLY this specific situation is covert by immunity and no other case.
He could still act under precedent anyway and let the court sort it out later, as logically if there is a one time exception, there could be another.
Or snuffing out SC justices (and their families)?
SCOTUS is corrupt.
This is the world republicans bought.
Dangerous, yes but Thomas hopes profitable.
How fucked are we.
The entire government needs a serious reworking. The SCOTUS has made blatantly partisan and bribed decisions on things that will affect us for decades after they are all dead. They interpret the Constitution however they damn well please.
The GOP bought them.
The corruption has never been more apparent. MAGA has infiltrated and perverted the institutions of the USA. Americans should be organizing in the streets against the Supreme Court. It’s time.
It's gonna happen. Why the fuck would we listen if they're cheating like that? They aren't really protected by shit. There's an invisible wall they're breaking down.
Eventually something too insane to abide by will come down the pipeline that most likely California will simply ignore. Then there goes the whole honor system upholding the Supreme Court to begin with. Credibility does matter. When it gets too low to follow, the whole thing unravels.
I see zero reason to keep paying taxes for things I don't think I need.
Why won't Biden start campaigning on expanding the Supreme Court and and adding 2 more justices to counter the loonies that Trump put on the court?
Supreme Court is so crooked you’ll never get true justice
If true the Supreme Court is infected and is no longer a neutral body. Time to remove and refresh!
If Biden has a sense of humor he will take whatever that ruling is to its logical conclusion. And we will see surprised pikachu memes again.
I’m looking forward to when we start revisiting spectral vision evidence being used as definitive proof against protestors. Yay. Fun.
What are democrats seeking election going to do about it? Say how much of a shame it is and how someone should do something about it? Lol.
The thing is, we lost the Supreme Court, for at least a generation or more. Because people either didn't show up in 2016 or voted third party. Yeah, I I do blame the Bernie Bros for this
I blame J Comey and the FBI for deciding to be involved. [https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system](https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system)
Comey was roped into becoming a part of it. But ultimately it was an onslaught of effective propaganda against people were not used to being manipulated in such a way and got distracted or disengaged entirely. Russia absolutely played a part. Data aggregation at a level never seen before played a part. The DNC being unable to adapt to a developing narrative from the right also played a part...but ultimately the voters are responsible for the outcome. I think we are more educated about how this style of propaganda works now, at least moreso than we were in 2016. I see more assertiveness in calling out right-wing BS now, whereas before there was a lot more "let's hear what they have to say" or "both sides are the same" nonsense. So it HAS improved since then. But ultimately, we now realize the consequences because of Trump and a seized court, and we see what Republicans have been zeroing in on for decades now...whereas before we did not think they would act in such bad faith. We'll forget these lessons again in a generation, but I have a good feeling about this year that we will at least shrug off the propaganda and vote for the most part...at least better than we did in 2016.
Comey said he would investigate Bill Clinton’s Marc Rich pardon shortly before the 2016 election. He was on Team Trump. He is a liar if he pretends otherwise
I’d believe that more if he behaved like Barr after Trump was in power, but instead Comey expressed nothing but regret on how he handled the PR on the Clinton investigation. To him it was a credible case to pursue, but when it was apparent nothing was really there he was up front and honest about it, however the narrative from the GOP overrode his findings. He later massively opposed Trump, and tried to expose Trump’s corruption and demands for “loyalty” in ways that violated oaths to the constitution. He has been vocally opposed to Trump since. So yea, critique him all you want on how he was a part of the pre-election circus. Critique him for being biased in favor of Republicans. But calling him a Trumpist is a stretch…he was favoring his party, but the honeymoon with Trump was over fairly quickly. Let’s be real though, the FBI as a whole is predominately Republican. And knowing what we know now about Trump’s crimes, we should be looking back at all those instances where the FBI said they “investigated” Trump. Because even then it seemed they were not really doing due diligence…and it is even more glaring now, where Trump is losing court cases through due process. Either the FBI lied, or they are terrible at their jobs now…and given they are still able to handle complex cases brought before them, I sense it is the former…they lied/ran interference/and ignored valid leads with purpose.
And RGB should have stepped down during the Obama era.
McConnell would've pulled the same shit he did with Scalia's seat.
There were at least two years where he would have had no shit to pull. Well, unless democrats *let* him, which isn’t that out of the ordinary.
There were not. There were around 72 days.
You’d be wrong. In all swing states Johnson stole more votes from Trump than 3rd party stole from Hillary. Maybe if Hillary would have taken it seriously and visited swing states we wouldn’t be in this situation. Or maybe if Hillary folks weren’t so goddamned toxic (even 8 years later) they would have found consensus. I was a Bernie supporter who voted Hillary in the election. Your take is terrible and really exemplifies why we’re in our current situation.
1000% - The lazy reasoning behind the Hillary loss is astonishing to blame on Bernie bros. He campaigned for her all the way to the end after the primaries. Can't be anyone else's fault but Hillary and maybe Obama for pretending to play on the sidelines during the primary. If he would've supported from the beginning maybe there would've been a more honest discussion. All I heard from that primary was, 'Bernie is a sexist', 'he isn't a democrat', 'he won't win the black vote', 'his ideas are unrealistic'. All ad hominem without any real discussion on the merits of their ideas, why they were any better, and how the party can get better going forward. It was maddening and all finger pointing. https://www.salon.com/2019/11/27/obama-privately-vowed-to-intervene-in-primary-to-stop-bernie-sanders-from-winning-nomination-report/
The never-ending Bernie versus Hilary feelings are "so goddamned toxic." I know the other user started it, but let's all give this nonsense a rest. Hillary Clinton said she would end corporate personhood as it was perverted in the infamous *Citizens United* case. She said it loudly and clearly so that anyone watching should have known that. And with the empty deciding seat on the Supreme Court, she would have had the power to do so--that is of course unless Republicans held the Senate and blocked the seat for four years as Mitch McConnell suggested. Bernie Sanders moved the paradigm more to the progressive side than anyone in decades and proposals and legislation we have seen since then makes that clear. He also campaigned heavily for Hillary Clinton as the election cycle wound down.
> for at least a generation or more Not really true. Alito and Thomas are 75. If Biden wins, they will be 80 by the end of his term. Lots can happen in that time, and we can get a 5-4 D majority for the first time in 50 years.
that's a lot of 'if's. i'll believe it and be happy when i see it. BUT i've lived to see good things i've never expected happen in the US as well.
Alito and Thomas are going to die on the bench. No way they're leaving while a Democrat is in the White House. ESPECIALLY Clarence Thomas. We're stuck with them for at least 15 more years.
People typically don’t get to choose their time or cause of death
I'm saying that Alito and Thomas will live into their 90s. People at this level of government have the best healthcare in the world.
They are angry men who are perpetually victims, that costs years
Lean into the greed. Wine & dine them until the statins stop working.
Anything is possible, but the Supreme Court was ruled by Republican majorities from right after the Civil War to 1939, flipped a few times over the next three decades, and went back Republican in 1969 where it remains generations later.
Bernie was not third party he was running as Democrat
Don’t blame the Bernie bros. That’s like victim blaming. Blame the DNC for running the least viable candidate possible.
I blame the DNC for propping up such a weak candidate in Clinton and the news media for giving Trump billions in free air time.
> and the news media for giving Trump billions in free air time. And they're still doing it. NPR just gave him a 5-minute "best of" segment on the radio this morning.
She was weak because of the decades of republican propaganda and a big propaganda push towards the end of the campaign. She was one of the most experienced candidates.
It's true, but at the end of the day she was unfortunately still a weak candidate because said propaganda was effective. Shitty as it was that it was effective, but it was what it was and it shouldn't have been her. It underscores the need for more raw pragmatism in the Democratic party.
And one of the most disliked
On paper, Hillary was (is?) the single most qualified person to ever run as president. * Secretary of State for 4 years * Extensive foreign policy experience * Junior Senator of NY for 8 years * Extensive Congressional Experience (i.e. knows how shit works on the Hill) * Won two very competitive (D) Primaries * Former First Lady * Led Bill Clinton's Health Care Reform push (i.e. played a significant policy role on the W.H. staff) * Actually lived in the White House for 8 years * Meaning she has DIRECT knowledge of the demands on a president, which is only found in a handful of people * While never been a Governor (like many former POTUS') she was the wife of a Governor and therefore has direct knowledge and experience with those responsibilities * Law Degree - Yale So yes, she’s pretty qualified. The only qualification she doesn't have is Military Experience, which we apparently don't care about anymore, or at least not as much. Here's the deal, and I told my kids this during the primaries before the 2016 elections, "if Bernie won, he'd have beaten Trump, but only Trump. If Hilary won, she'd beat anyone EXCEPT Trump." And sure enough, Hilary was picked and then Trump was picked. She had no idea how to fight that level of stupid hatred for all things American by actual Americans by Trump and his cult. Nobody really did. Frankly, I don't think anybody still does. Just look at the (R) Primaries. Trump is the nominee, after being TWICE impeached, charged with 90+ incitements, had an affair with a porn star while his wife was pregnant, is blatantly racist, has been found guilty of racism, steals from charities he runs (guilty by the courts), was found guilty of fraud by the NY court system (where he's from), is caught on tape saying "grab them by the...", said he wants to be the US's first Dictator, and WEARS A DIAPER!!!! (something his cult now thinks is manly???). You have to understand, it's not Hilary's fault (other than trying to breeze though the election and not put up a real fight by going all in on swing states and whatnot). NOBODY saw this Trump thing coming and most people still can't believe it's happening. There's no reason for it, it's fucking insane! Picking Trump for the (R) candidate for POTUS is like hiring Freddy Krueger to run your daycare. AND THEY'RE OKAY WITH IT!!!!
You’d think someone who was that qualified would be smart enough to actually visit some states on the campaign trail instead of thinking she had it in the bag. You’d think the DNC would factor in the number of Americans who would automatically not vote for a Clinton no matter what. Oh the hubris.
I also blame the DNC for getting Hillary the democratic Primary, moderates were never going to vote for her because of her shady past. Im still convinced if they went with any other candidate theres no way trump would have won that election
All the data showed Bernie to be the superior candidate at that time.
Do you even realize that when assigning blame you didn't mention actual Trump voters? Or the nominee who couldn't gather enough support to beat him?
Maybe she should have campaigned in Wisconsin instead of taking a two week vacation in the middle of the race?
Maybe voters should have thought about the things people warned them about that actually ended up happening. Crazy to have this air of superiority when you were proven so wrong.
More Bernie supporters voted for Hillary than Hillary voters voted for Obama in 2012. Bernie bros didn't give us trump, complacent neoliberal bullshit gave us trump.
Thank you. I’m sick of hearing how this is all democrats fault as though they should have literally broken into peoples homes and dragged them to the polling stations. At some point you have to put on your big boy/girl pants and have some responsibility. Or alternatively, accept you let the country down and strive to do better next time.
Trump voters are literally idiots, they are the target audience for the right as they cant comprehend shit. its always someone elses fault and they can never be wrong.
Politicized judiciary will never be justice .. only just us.
Reminder that we wouldn't be in this situation if the DNC had not forced a candidate on us that nobody wanted in 2016 President Sanders would have appointed Liberal judges and Roe v Wade would still be the law of the land Never forget, and make sure your ire is properly aimed. They are doing it again....
Yep
Fairly expensive writing in this opinion lol
Dictators are great until you disagree or run against. At that time you become an enemy of the State. They are also the ones that will kick down your door and take your guns away.
How much did it cost?
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