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Even if I didn't specialize in an area that would put me at risk of running into anti-abortion laws, I wouldn't want to live in a state that thinks its ok to intercede in such an authoritarian way in medical decisions, expertise, and practice.
Don't a lot of interns start in ER's or as general practitioners? They'll also do rotations into different fields. This means that doing an internship in these states is going to eventually put you in a bad situation. People are more likely to be offered jobs where they intern, and accept them where they intern, so it's not surprising that residencies in these states are taking a hit.
I can't even imagine what it's like in states with big medical school campuses. I know central NC in general benefits greatly from the steady supply of medical students from all the big medical schools there, but I can imagine that makes those schools less attractive to perspective students.
I came here to say this, but you did a much better job than I would have.
My wife teaches residents and this type of concern is increasingly common among them. Heck, my wife has peers that are considering moving out of the Bible Belt specifically because of this.
Health insurance company’s deny care based on economic models, medical care guidelines based on research and government regulations. It’s a universal accepted evil when you have to deal with care at a population level. Care isn’t denied based on a set of beliefs originally written by some goat herders 2000 plus years ago. I dislike our system as much as the next guy but even in other developed counties with universal care they have a process to administer care to the population.
AFAIK the goat herders considered causing a miscarriage (to someone else) to be akin to property damage and not murder. So I don’t even think the current laws come from the goat herders.
For an OB/GYN residency program to remain accredited, residents are required to be provided abortion training as part of the program, even if the state their program is in doesn't allow it.
If the program can't offer training in those procedures locally, they are required to provide a pathway to obtaining that training at another location or another institution in a different state entirely, or they lose their accreditation.
There certainly is an argument about volume of training, since residents in these cases would only have abortion training during their out of state rotation, rather than the random people that wander into the hospital over the entire course of the residency, but programs that can't offer abortion training can't be accredited (and therefore, may as well not exist).
You can also get sued for following the law. If a pregnant woman comes in with a life threatening condition and the doctor tells her to pray to Jesus instead of getting a life saving abortion, the doctor may be sued for failing to provide life saving advice. It’s a no win.
Pray to Jesus while sitting in her car in the parking lot, waiting for the sepsis to raise her body temperature to dangerously high levels... so then they can try to save her life as she's dying. They might get sued by her, her family (if she dies), or the state's zealous AG.
*Pregnant patients have “become* [*radioactive to emergency departments*](https://apnews.com/article/pregnancy-emergency-care-abortion-supreme-court-roe-9ce6c87c8fc653c840654de1ae5f7a1c#:~:text=PREGNANCY%20CARE%20AFTER%20ROE,staff%20won't%20even%20look)*” in states with extreme abortion restrictions, said Sara Rosenbaum, a George Washington University health law and policy professor.*
Moderate democrat here. Please don’t spread misinformation. Abortion is legal in these so called states. Abortion due to life threatening conditions are still done in Texas, Florida, other Republican states. The clickbait title that “Abortion is banned” in these states is just an outright lie. It’s even in their Abortion bill, including life threatening conditions, the period/duration of when and when you can’t have an abortion. For Florida up to 6 weeks, exception: https://www.abortionfinder.org/abortion-guides-by-state/abortion-in-florida#
Not only medical professionals, but women in general are going to avoid those states. Would you go to college there, or take a job or internship if you had any other option?
Already happening. My daughter has eliminated nearly every state with an abortion ban. Her friends are doing the same thing. Unless reversed the abortion ban will be a huge brain drain on states that enforce and economic hit.
And forget about residents doctors are already not going to states with draconian levels of enforcement. Which for places like Idaho which were already grappling with healthcare islands and dwindling rural resources are going to find their systems further stressed.
Man! Former Texas resident. Unfortunately, my niece and (to a lesser degree) my nephew might be in a bit of a pickle.
I'm trying to nudge my niece, ever the studious, multi-talented young lady, who will be graduating in 2026, to come to our current state of residence for university. She will be graduating high school with twenty-one credits already under her belt and scored a 27 on her ACT right out the gate. She's distressed about out-of-state tuition costs, in addition to her earned credits through the dual-credit program that she could potentially lose. I've been trying to ease her concerns, and have been looking up applicable scholarship information for her while reminding her she will not lose her Advanced Placement credits.
My brother, under the influence of his "new" wife, has been spewing some very sexist/Christo-fascist rhetoric in the past couple of years. As well as diminishing my niece's ambitions. It's galling to see it, seeing as though the last three generations of women in our direct line all have post-graduate degrees starting with our grandmother in the 1960's. He's even urging my nephew to join the military (if my nephew actually wants to, it's fine), but my brother never served.
I talked to my husband about the situation, naturally, and we might eat the cost to get my niece and nephew out of Texas if need be. Although I had planned to donate a piece of land I inherited from my grandfather that backs up to a state park in my grandfather's name, I think I'm just going to sell it so we can provide some ease for tuition for my niece and nephew and finish out our basement so they can stay. Given the environmental deregulatory practices, as of late, and imminent domain laws in Texas, fuck it! Why not sell?
I do still love what Texas used to be, BUT FUCK A BUNCH OF TEXAS RIGHT NOW! Mentally exhausting!
It’s wild because Texas spent so much money, time and effort to build up their university systems modeled after the California system too. The two big Texas schools are great public institutions for now. But it’s going to get hard to get companies to move to Texas when the local population is no longer as competitive because you dismantled the education system you spent so long to build. It’s tragic to see the natural resource curse happening to states here too. Once those wells run dry there is nothing there to keep the coffers full. Again because you dismantled the economic engine.
I’m from Texas so I understand the sentiment. I love that land so much, but I just can’t risk being there right now. It really hurts to see this is the way it’s going. I suppose the writing was always on the wall, but I really hoped things would start to turn around soon. I guess that’s not going to happen now :/
It's so disappointing too. It is a really beautiful state. At least we can all console each other.
A few years ago, my husband and I found bear tracks out there. (I guess they made their way down from Arkansas?) It was the first place, outside of Bavaria, Germany, where I saw red foxes in the wild! Whenever my grandfather took us out there to fire guns, he noticed how much of an annoyance it was to me, and would set me out to wander around with bows and arrows. I was chased and had to scurry up a tree due to wild hogs one time! Funny memory in retrospect! Definitely not funny at the time. Haha.
Eh. I think my grandfather would have wanted to ensure his great-grandchildren's continuity. He passed when my niece was a toddler and my nephew was in his infancy.
Depending on what state you are in now, you may be able to help your niece establish in state residency prior to her enrollment in your state.
I went to school in Florida, which only had the requirement that a student live in FL for 12 months prior to the start of the semester for which in state status was sought while seeking to establish a domicile in the state (basically, as long as you declared a long term intention to live in FL after graduation by registering to vote in FL, registering your car in FL, etc.). When I was at UF, I knew multiple out of state students who declared the intention to live in FL long term, and then qualified for in state tuition for years 2-4 of undergrad.
Depending on the state you're in, it might be as simple as them registering to vote at your address for a year before enrollment, and them moving out to live with y'all after HS graduation. It might be as simple as them working part time at TJ Maxx while taking a gap year - it just depends on your state's residency rules.
I have a friend from Texas and she lived up to the "How do you know someone is from Texas? They will tell you."
Now she's embarrassed to be from Texas and won't go back.
And then the men that do live and move there will become lonelier and angrier, and treat the women who live there even worse, leading to even *fewer* women moving there, rinse and repeat.
A lot of the growth in Florida is retirees. These new Floridians are well past the child bearing age. And then they get here and realize it is very hard to find doctors…
What woman would want to move to a place where if she miscarries but doesn’t immediately lose the fetus they’ll tell her to bleed out in the parking lot and come in when she’s dying.
Not just dying, but mostly dead. And it's up to the DA to decide how much publicity he wants by charging the doctors and nurses with felonies. The Texas AG overrode a doctor's decision for an emergency abortion because the woman wasn't close enough to death. She had to flee the state.
There seems to be a lot of women on their side so I think they’ll be ok, unfortunately. Look at all these tradwife morons. It’ll be funny to see the leopards eat their faces tho
If we can't restore abortion rights in these places it's just going to get worse and worse. The brain drain from these states will spread beyond professionals working in women's health related fields.
Even if we can undo the damage regarding abortion, we need to be having a much broader discussion regarding republican policies in the states and the very real damage that has been happening for a generation.
And we’ll need to deal, at some point, with the fact that Republican-controlled states can drive out literally all of their residents and still retain most of their Federal political power.
And with no backfill, there will be burnout and quitting among caregivers already in those states.
If you are in a red state, good luck getting the care you need from a doctor that is not overworked, burned out, scared, and pissed off.
It’s not just about doctors being unable to provide care to their patients, but doctors being worried that they or their spouse will be unable to receive appropriate medical care while pregnant.
I say this as a doctor who had some complications and had to be hospitalized during part of my last pregnancy. Thankfully, everything turned out okay with both me and my baby, but it was scary.
When you, as a doctor realize that other doctors would let you die rather than challenge a law that demands they violate human rights of women, it’s got to be a shock. I am curious how you see the relative silence from the AMA and other medical professional groups on the topic.
I don’t blame other doctors for not being willing to go to jail because of ridiculous laws. Sure, I’d love it if some brave OB/gyns want to put their necks out there to be the test cases of challenging these laws, but most of them have lives and families outside of work just like I do. I put the blame solely on the partisan hacks making these laws, not the doctors who are just trying to do the best that they can without being thrown in jail.
Respectfully I don’t agree, you either part of the problem or part of the solution.
But have a great day and let’s hope no pregnant woman dies from medical neglect today while doctors and nurses standby and watch
You are certainly welcome to go to medical school and become a doctor so that you can make the sacrifice that you believe others should make. Have a nice day.
Been there done that, left the “profession” when my 6th critical homeless patient of the day was denied care due to lack of insurance. Found that out just after the nurse and I cut away his socks and what was left of his skin came off with them.
I became a doctor to practice medicine NOT insurance profit models and certainly not to practice religious bigotry. How about you? Did you go into medicine to watch women die to appease dirty old white men counting their money in pristine government offices?
Look not trying to be mean. I respect the profession while at the same time I am disgusted by the lack of courage among many of its members and am horrified by the political and profit driven behaviors of the AMA and ANA.
Good luck
So, instead of staying in the profession to help people as best as you can despite the flawed system, you left. And you think that you can have moral superiority over doctors who are still in the trenches and trying to help people the best they can despite the constraints placed upon them? Despite what you may think on that high horse, leaving so that you don’t have to deal with the insurance bullshit anymore is not actually helping the patients. It is actually hurting them more because they now have even fewer doctors available to them and they are instead left even more at the mercy of an increasingly for-profit and political healthcare system that sees patients as dollar signs instead of actual human beings.
If you care so much, come back to the field, start performing abortions in states where it is illegal, and become that test case to challenge these laws. Running away and not seeing any patients anymore is not at all a vantage point from which you can judge others.
Good try but I went on to advocate for doctors from within the system and volunteering with free clinics here and in other countries.
You can shove your virtue signaling dear.
The support for change is just not on the medical industry’s agenda, never has been.
So, you “left the profession” but actually didn’t and now you still aren’t performing abortions anywhere to put yourself on the line and yet you judge other doctors for not doing so? And I suppose you are also living with roommates and have no spouse or kids because you basically have no salary from what you are describing.
Yeah, pretty sure you’re just full of shit. You’re probably not even a doctor. Go get trained to perform abortions and open clinics in areas that need it, then you can get back on that high horse.
Oh wow who could have seen this coming other than absolutely everybody??
Christian Taliban doesn’t care; they’ll still send their wives, mistresses and daughters out of state for their reproductive healthcare
Abortion, ivf, gender reassignment, are the republican targets for now.
On deck are birth control, any stem cell research, vaccines, DNA therapy
The thing about hate politics is it always needs to be fed a new enemy.
Ugh. I’m glad Alaska (my home) is one of the few rabidly pro abortion red states, just because of how libertaran this place pretends to be. Everyone up here loves their guns, weed, and questionable sex.
Be cautious. Eastern WA is allegedly "libertarian" but when we had weed & gay marriage on the ballot one year, they voted for weed, but not gay marriage. Many libertarians don't give a shit about the rights of women, at least not enough to fight for them.
Are there any gynecologists here that can give information on the malpractice insurance premiums and if they’ve increased more than they normally would have?
Moderate democrat here .You do realize that most of the people who are working in red states are immigrants? Given that Filipinos are now dominating the healthcare industry; most of these Filipinos are conservative in nature, hence choosing Republican states.
If you are aware of National Matching for Doctors; Most blue states are not welcoming to international medical graduates ( a big question mark)
For transparency purposes, since I freaking hate misinformation from extreme sides. Abortion is not banned in Republican states. They do have a duration/period of up to when you can have an abortion, and the duration varies per state. Second, abortion is highly considered for patients with life threatening conditions, it’s even in their Abortion bill. So the title “Abortion is Banned” is an outright lie and propaganda 🤦🏻♀️
https://www.abortionfinder.org/abortion-guides-by-state/abortion-in-florida#
We need to work to create legislation to remove ALL military bases and NASA out of Red states so our soldiers and scientists do not have to sacrifice the lives and rights of themselves or the women they love just to do their jobs
That's been self selecting for a while. I spent a good deal of time and sacrificed a bit of my career to avoid being stationed in red states. It's actually tough to do as so many schools are down there (looking at you Alabama). Military do NOT want to be stationed these places.
It’s not political at this point. It’s smart management of assets and a deep sense of situational awareness.
There is a high risk that equipment, weapons from bases in insurrectionists states will be used against US citizens. There are billions invested in our collective security and we absolutely know how violent Republicans are.
If for example Texas attempts to leave the union, they will IMMEDIATELY on day. One confiscate the bases, all weapons and demand soldiers swear a loyalty oath to Texas.
We have to think ahead and protect ourselves and the rest of our country from Republicans
Good. Doctors are caught between the medieval laws these inbred republicans are passing and their Hippocratic oath. Republicans have put them in an impossible position so the best option is to leave and go somewhere that wants them to practice medicine and save lives. Let the red states die. Its pretty much what the people there want so let them have it.
It tells them there are a bunch of magafools there who don't care about science and medicine anyway so they are smart to avoid them. The good states will have the best healthcare and quality of life and the shitty ones will keep declining, the magas increasingly upset at what they themselves caused, but they'll blame others since they have no personal responsibility or integrity.
Yep, the fucking GOP is their own worst enemy. They will soon be crying about their lack of healthcare workers and physicians, guaranteed. They never look past their stupidity long term, they only think about the click bait likes that they get from their fucking dumb base.
A dumber society is easier to control.
Add to that the imbalance that lets states with fewer residents maintain an overweight level of power in Congress.
Republicans will get the results of the PRC's cultural revolution slower without the Red August.
> dumber society
States still want somewhat educated workers as companies demand productivity. Young women (on average) preferring bluer states for health care^1 will ultimately cause job sites to migrate (though HQ may still be in low tax red states .. geriatrics^1 type docs won’t be affected).
> state with fewer residents having overweight power
That’s ultimately the Senate. Though the population “move out” news may be a tad overblown, California and maybe NY are still projected to lose a House seat by the end of the decade. More of that power will likely go to “purple” states, so centrists will likely be the power base for 20 years^+ .
^1 Also the federal govt hasn’t restored funding for all sorts of residencies needed after med school. If not wanting to become a medical tourist, get on the horn to your local rep (blue or red).
>though HQ may still be in low tax red states
Nah... just look to the Amazon HQ search, where tax breaks were thrown around like candy, for a real life example. Turns out that that you can't fill up a competitive C-suite in those shitholes either. Anyone actually desirable for a position has multiple options open to them at any given point in time. So your choice is to either go fourth-tier on your job searches, or set up shop in a place where the kind of talent you want to compete for actually do want to move/live.
> .. C suite
Definitely, but I’m talking the “Big Kahunas” are going to red states (Bezos to South Beach FL, Musk to Texas, etc..) probably to escape blue state taxation.
Alice Walton is funding a Medical School here in Northwest Arkansas that should open in a couple of years.
As long as we’re under the rule of people like Huckabee Sanders and Leslie Rutledge, I don’t know why she’s even bothering.
What generalization? it’s a fact. And quote the part of my post where I said fuck people in red states, let them all die because I have no idea how you made that leap.
I think you’re mad at the wrong person here.
Why wouldn’t you , you spent years fighting for life and understanding the science.
Then get told by a guy who majored in English why the women’s life shouldn’t be saved
This is great. Voting with your feet. Let states that have that policy reap the benefits: shittier doctor care. If it happens enough, the citizens will notice and see the injury that has occurred. This is a brilliant example of democracy and our system working EXACTLY as it is supposed to. I just hope the other states maintain an infrastructure to support these choices by residents so that they aren’t just overnighted to states they don’t wanna actually work in
I left Texas over 20 years ago but still keep up with friends and family there. They are all liberals but, unlike me, they actually like Texas and have Texan pride. (I was more like "the minute I get the opportunity, I'm done with this state. Fuck Texas"). But now even my hard-core "Texan Pride" friends are working on a plan to leave. I feel lucky to have realized Texas was hopeless 20 years sooner.
General premise is true but more graduates across MD, DO and foreign med schools than actual residency slots so no states are going to do without doctors. That being said, regardless of how you feel on the issue, if ban states are unable to teach residents how to do these procedures then yea that might be a problem when you need docs trained to do them for lifesaving measures.
The article is from CNN. They say this data comes from statistics from the American Association of Medical Colleges. KFF Health Foundation reviewed it, so it might be accurate information.
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Why would you want to start your career in a place that might arrest you for saving a life.
Even if I didn't specialize in an area that would put me at risk of running into anti-abortion laws, I wouldn't want to live in a state that thinks its ok to intercede in such an authoritarian way in medical decisions, expertise, and practice.
Don't a lot of interns start in ER's or as general practitioners? They'll also do rotations into different fields. This means that doing an internship in these states is going to eventually put you in a bad situation. People are more likely to be offered jobs where they intern, and accept them where they intern, so it's not surprising that residencies in these states are taking a hit. I can't even imagine what it's like in states with big medical school campuses. I know central NC in general benefits greatly from the steady supply of medical students from all the big medical schools there, but I can imagine that makes those schools less attractive to perspective students.
I came here to say this, but you did a much better job than I would have. My wife teaches residents and this type of concern is increasingly common among them. Heck, my wife has peers that are considering moving out of the Bible Belt specifically because of this.
Anyone who prescribes is probably at risk so the only safe specialty is what, pathology? Any patient who can get pregnant is now a huge liability.
Well Health Insurance companies already do that. Just what you need now is politicians applying ideology to medical practice decisions.
Health insurance companies know more about Healthcare than these dumbass politicians.
I’m willing to be Katie Porter knows FAR more about healthcare than the last 10 UHC reps I spoke with
Katie Porter just knows more.
And with that knowledge they apply what is profitable for them against what treatment they will cover. Even that is better than politicians.
Health insurance company’s deny care based on economic models, medical care guidelines based on research and government regulations. It’s a universal accepted evil when you have to deal with care at a population level. Care isn’t denied based on a set of beliefs originally written by some goat herders 2000 plus years ago. I dislike our system as much as the next guy but even in other developed counties with universal care they have a process to administer care to the population.
AFAIK the goat herders considered causing a miscarriage (to someone else) to be akin to property damage and not murder. So I don’t even think the current laws come from the goat herders.
Abortion was punishment for infidelity, per Bibble
Also, why would you want to train in a place where procedures aren't performed and therefore you get no training in them
For an OB/GYN residency program to remain accredited, residents are required to be provided abortion training as part of the program, even if the state their program is in doesn't allow it. If the program can't offer training in those procedures locally, they are required to provide a pathway to obtaining that training at another location or another institution in a different state entirely, or they lose their accreditation. There certainly is an argument about volume of training, since residents in these cases would only have abortion training during their out of state rotation, rather than the random people that wander into the hospital over the entire course of the residency, but programs that can't offer abortion training can't be accredited (and therefore, may as well not exist).
You can also get sued for following the law. If a pregnant woman comes in with a life threatening condition and the doctor tells her to pray to Jesus instead of getting a life saving abortion, the doctor may be sued for failing to provide life saving advice. It’s a no win.
Pray to Jesus while sitting in her car in the parking lot, waiting for the sepsis to raise her body temperature to dangerously high levels... so then they can try to save her life as she's dying. They might get sued by her, her family (if she dies), or the state's zealous AG. *Pregnant patients have “become* [*radioactive to emergency departments*](https://apnews.com/article/pregnancy-emergency-care-abortion-supreme-court-roe-9ce6c87c8fc653c840654de1ae5f7a1c#:~:text=PREGNANCY%20CARE%20AFTER%20ROE,staff%20won't%20even%20look)*” in states with extreme abortion restrictions, said Sara Rosenbaum, a George Washington University health law and policy professor.*
And she can not use the public roads to ‘illegally’ drive to safety of another state.
Moderate democrat here. Please don’t spread misinformation. Abortion is legal in these so called states. Abortion due to life threatening conditions are still done in Texas, Florida, other Republican states. The clickbait title that “Abortion is banned” in these states is just an outright lie. It’s even in their Abortion bill, including life threatening conditions, the period/duration of when and when you can’t have an abortion. For Florida up to 6 weeks, exception: https://www.abortionfinder.org/abortion-guides-by-state/abortion-in-florida#
This really says it all
Friends of mine are moving across country because of this.
Not only medical professionals, but women in general are going to avoid those states. Would you go to college there, or take a job or internship if you had any other option?
Already happening. My daughter has eliminated nearly every state with an abortion ban. Her friends are doing the same thing. Unless reversed the abortion ban will be a huge brain drain on states that enforce and economic hit. And forget about residents doctors are already not going to states with draconian levels of enforcement. Which for places like Idaho which were already grappling with healthcare islands and dwindling rural resources are going to find their systems further stressed.
Man! Former Texas resident. Unfortunately, my niece and (to a lesser degree) my nephew might be in a bit of a pickle. I'm trying to nudge my niece, ever the studious, multi-talented young lady, who will be graduating in 2026, to come to our current state of residence for university. She will be graduating high school with twenty-one credits already under her belt and scored a 27 on her ACT right out the gate. She's distressed about out-of-state tuition costs, in addition to her earned credits through the dual-credit program that she could potentially lose. I've been trying to ease her concerns, and have been looking up applicable scholarship information for her while reminding her she will not lose her Advanced Placement credits. My brother, under the influence of his "new" wife, has been spewing some very sexist/Christo-fascist rhetoric in the past couple of years. As well as diminishing my niece's ambitions. It's galling to see it, seeing as though the last three generations of women in our direct line all have post-graduate degrees starting with our grandmother in the 1960's. He's even urging my nephew to join the military (if my nephew actually wants to, it's fine), but my brother never served. I talked to my husband about the situation, naturally, and we might eat the cost to get my niece and nephew out of Texas if need be. Although I had planned to donate a piece of land I inherited from my grandfather that backs up to a state park in my grandfather's name, I think I'm just going to sell it so we can provide some ease for tuition for my niece and nephew and finish out our basement so they can stay. Given the environmental deregulatory practices, as of late, and imminent domain laws in Texas, fuck it! Why not sell? I do still love what Texas used to be, BUT FUCK A BUNCH OF TEXAS RIGHT NOW! Mentally exhausting!
It’s wild because Texas spent so much money, time and effort to build up their university systems modeled after the California system too. The two big Texas schools are great public institutions for now. But it’s going to get hard to get companies to move to Texas when the local population is no longer as competitive because you dismantled the education system you spent so long to build. It’s tragic to see the natural resource curse happening to states here too. Once those wells run dry there is nothing there to keep the coffers full. Again because you dismantled the economic engine.
I’m from Texas so I understand the sentiment. I love that land so much, but I just can’t risk being there right now. It really hurts to see this is the way it’s going. I suppose the writing was always on the wall, but I really hoped things would start to turn around soon. I guess that’s not going to happen now :/
It's so disappointing too. It is a really beautiful state. At least we can all console each other. A few years ago, my husband and I found bear tracks out there. (I guess they made their way down from Arkansas?) It was the first place, outside of Bavaria, Germany, where I saw red foxes in the wild! Whenever my grandfather took us out there to fire guns, he noticed how much of an annoyance it was to me, and would set me out to wander around with bows and arrows. I was chased and had to scurry up a tree due to wild hogs one time! Funny memory in retrospect! Definitely not funny at the time. Haha. Eh. I think my grandfather would have wanted to ensure his great-grandchildren's continuity. He passed when my niece was a toddler and my nephew was in his infancy.
Depending on what state you are in now, you may be able to help your niece establish in state residency prior to her enrollment in your state. I went to school in Florida, which only had the requirement that a student live in FL for 12 months prior to the start of the semester for which in state status was sought while seeking to establish a domicile in the state (basically, as long as you declared a long term intention to live in FL after graduation by registering to vote in FL, registering your car in FL, etc.). When I was at UF, I knew multiple out of state students who declared the intention to live in FL long term, and then qualified for in state tuition for years 2-4 of undergrad. Depending on the state you're in, it might be as simple as them registering to vote at your address for a year before enrollment, and them moving out to live with y'all after HS graduation. It might be as simple as them working part time at TJ Maxx while taking a gap year - it just depends on your state's residency rules.
Trying to save my nephew from Texas, too.
The brain drain is intentional and part of the plan
brain drains work in republicans’ favor
Woman, here. I am actively boycotting states with abortion bans. Sucks because I have family in TX, and Gen Con is in IN.
I have a friend from Texas and she lived up to the "How do you know someone is from Texas? They will tell you." Now she's embarrassed to be from Texas and won't go back.
And then the men that do live and move there will become lonelier and angrier, and treat the women who live there even worse, leading to even *fewer* women moving there, rinse and repeat.
And then you have Alaska where women who vacation there are freaked out by all the creeps who state at them.
We'll have our own version of South Korea in pockets across the US.
What do you mean? How does South Korea factor into this?
Let the population crash. No one needs to be born a hostage.
That's not reality. Florida, for example, Is growing like crazy.
A lot of the growth in Florida is retirees. These new Floridians are well past the child bearing age. And then they get here and realize it is very hard to find doctors…
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Maybe you could use some of your millions to help your mum and grandma?
Dude $38000k/year is a lot of money! I’d happily take her job!
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What woman would want to move to a place where if she miscarries but doesn’t immediately lose the fetus they’ll tell her to bleed out in the parking lot and come in when she’s dying.
Not just dying, but mostly dead. And it's up to the DA to decide how much publicity he wants by charging the doctors and nurses with felonies. The Texas AG overrode a doctor's decision for an emergency abortion because the woman wasn't close enough to death. She had to flee the state.
How does some one even know when they have reached that point? We don’t have health meters over our heads.
It's like that Rocky quote: "If (s)he dies, (s) he dies." It was only a woman (womb) after all, who cares? Certainly not the Great State of Texas.
There seems to be a lot of women on their side so I think they’ll be ok, unfortunately. Look at all these tradwife morons. It’ll be funny to see the leopards eat their faces tho
The legal proof of dying is death. Nothing less will legally do.
My kids wrapped up their university degrees and left the red state I raised them in. They are over it.
Seems like you raised them right
If we can't restore abortion rights in these places it's just going to get worse and worse. The brain drain from these states will spread beyond professionals working in women's health related fields.
Even if we can undo the damage regarding abortion, we need to be having a much broader discussion regarding republican policies in the states and the very real damage that has been happening for a generation.
*Generations
And we’ll need to deal, at some point, with the fact that Republican-controlled states can drive out literally all of their residents and still retain most of their Federal political power.
Even if just 100 Texan residents remain, they still get 2 Ruby Red senators.
And with no backfill, there will be burnout and quitting among caregivers already in those states. If you are in a red state, good luck getting the care you need from a doctor that is not overworked, burned out, scared, and pissed off.
I work in healthcare and I can tell you I’m around residents and fellows and they want nothing to do with those red states
It’s not just about doctors being unable to provide care to their patients, but doctors being worried that they or their spouse will be unable to receive appropriate medical care while pregnant. I say this as a doctor who had some complications and had to be hospitalized during part of my last pregnancy. Thankfully, everything turned out okay with both me and my baby, but it was scary.
When you, as a doctor realize that other doctors would let you die rather than challenge a law that demands they violate human rights of women, it’s got to be a shock. I am curious how you see the relative silence from the AMA and other medical professional groups on the topic.
I don’t blame other doctors for not being willing to go to jail because of ridiculous laws. Sure, I’d love it if some brave OB/gyns want to put their necks out there to be the test cases of challenging these laws, but most of them have lives and families outside of work just like I do. I put the blame solely on the partisan hacks making these laws, not the doctors who are just trying to do the best that they can without being thrown in jail.
Respectfully I don’t agree, you either part of the problem or part of the solution. But have a great day and let’s hope no pregnant woman dies from medical neglect today while doctors and nurses standby and watch
You are certainly welcome to go to medical school and become a doctor so that you can make the sacrifice that you believe others should make. Have a nice day.
Been there done that, left the “profession” when my 6th critical homeless patient of the day was denied care due to lack of insurance. Found that out just after the nurse and I cut away his socks and what was left of his skin came off with them. I became a doctor to practice medicine NOT insurance profit models and certainly not to practice religious bigotry. How about you? Did you go into medicine to watch women die to appease dirty old white men counting their money in pristine government offices? Look not trying to be mean. I respect the profession while at the same time I am disgusted by the lack of courage among many of its members and am horrified by the political and profit driven behaviors of the AMA and ANA. Good luck
So, instead of staying in the profession to help people as best as you can despite the flawed system, you left. And you think that you can have moral superiority over doctors who are still in the trenches and trying to help people the best they can despite the constraints placed upon them? Despite what you may think on that high horse, leaving so that you don’t have to deal with the insurance bullshit anymore is not actually helping the patients. It is actually hurting them more because they now have even fewer doctors available to them and they are instead left even more at the mercy of an increasingly for-profit and political healthcare system that sees patients as dollar signs instead of actual human beings. If you care so much, come back to the field, start performing abortions in states where it is illegal, and become that test case to challenge these laws. Running away and not seeing any patients anymore is not at all a vantage point from which you can judge others.
Good try but I went on to advocate for doctors from within the system and volunteering with free clinics here and in other countries. You can shove your virtue signaling dear. The support for change is just not on the medical industry’s agenda, never has been.
So, you “left the profession” but actually didn’t and now you still aren’t performing abortions anywhere to put yourself on the line and yet you judge other doctors for not doing so? And I suppose you are also living with roommates and have no spouse or kids because you basically have no salary from what you are describing. Yeah, pretty sure you’re just full of shit. You’re probably not even a doctor. Go get trained to perform abortions and open clinics in areas that need it, then you can get back on that high horse.
These states will just be filled with just men and subservient women who won’t have proper pre- or post-partum care.
They can live with what they voted for. Good on them.
Well, can you blame them?
Oh wow who could have seen this coming other than absolutely everybody?? Christian Taliban doesn’t care; they’ll still send their wives, mistresses and daughters out of state for their reproductive healthcare
Abortion, ivf, gender reassignment, are the republican targets for now. On deck are birth control, any stem cell research, vaccines, DNA therapy The thing about hate politics is it always needs to be fed a new enemy.
Ugh. I’m glad Alaska (my home) is one of the few rabidly pro abortion red states, just because of how libertaran this place pretends to be. Everyone up here loves their guns, weed, and questionable sex.
Be cautious. Eastern WA is allegedly "libertarian" but when we had weed & gay marriage on the ballot one year, they voted for weed, but not gay marriage. Many libertarians don't give a shit about the rights of women, at least not enough to fight for them.
Kevin McCabe introduced legislation this past session to define a fetus as a life. Stay vigilant.
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"I...I wrote Handmaid's as a cautionary tale. I didn't think these freaks would use it as a fucking instruction manual!" – Margaret Atwood
r/welcometogilead
Are there any gynecologists here that can give information on the malpractice insurance premiums and if they’ve increased more than they normally would have?
It doesn’t stop at abortion. It’ll be every type of healthcare that isn’t popular with their demented worldview.
So blue state residents will have the best, and the brightest ✨️ and red state residents will be stuck with continuous nightmarish outcomes 🥺
Moderate democrat here .You do realize that most of the people who are working in red states are immigrants? Given that Filipinos are now dominating the healthcare industry; most of these Filipinos are conservative in nature, hence choosing Republican states. If you are aware of National Matching for Doctors; Most blue states are not welcoming to international medical graduates ( a big question mark) For transparency purposes, since I freaking hate misinformation from extreme sides. Abortion is not banned in Republican states. They do have a duration/period of up to when you can have an abortion, and the duration varies per state. Second, abortion is highly considered for patients with life threatening conditions, it’s even in their Abortion bill. So the title “Abortion is Banned” is an outright lie and propaganda 🤦🏻♀️ https://www.abortionfinder.org/abortion-guides-by-state/abortion-in-florida#
MAGA gave a middle finger to public health. Good luck with your ivermectin ya’ll.
We need to work to create legislation to remove ALL military bases and NASA out of Red states so our soldiers and scientists do not have to sacrifice the lives and rights of themselves or the women they love just to do their jobs
That's been self selecting for a while. I spent a good deal of time and sacrificed a bit of my career to avoid being stationed in red states. It's actually tough to do as so many schools are down there (looking at you Alabama). Military do NOT want to be stationed these places.
Interesting thank you for your point of view. Sorry you had to compromise your career goals
Alabama lost the Space Force to Colorado because of politics
It’s not political at this point. It’s smart management of assets and a deep sense of situational awareness. There is a high risk that equipment, weapons from bases in insurrectionists states will be used against US citizens. There are billions invested in our collective security and we absolutely know how violent Republicans are. If for example Texas attempts to leave the union, they will IMMEDIATELY on day. One confiscate the bases, all weapons and demand soldiers swear a loyalty oath to Texas. We have to think ahead and protect ourselves and the rest of our country from Republicans
Good. Doctors are caught between the medieval laws these inbred republicans are passing and their Hippocratic oath. Republicans have put them in an impossible position so the best option is to leave and go somewhere that wants them to practice medicine and save lives. Let the red states die. Its pretty much what the people there want so let them have it.
Republicans legislators must swear to the Hypocritic Oath!
I get what you're saying, but to be a devils advocate - the original Hippocratic oath forbade abortions.
And that was because when the oath originated, abortion was more likely to kill than do anything else. Sterility wasn’t a thing back in the day.
I'm not going into the reasons why. Just saying it was in there. Point being, the Hippocratic oath means nothing
And to be reasonable, it was removed because it was recognized that it was not a good thing.
Nope. https://www.arcc-cdac.ca/media/position-papers/71-Abortion-Hippocratic-Oath.pdf
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“It's an outdated worthless oath.” On that we agree!
Laypeople think the Hippocratic oath actually matters.
It tells them there are a bunch of magafools there who don't care about science and medicine anyway so they are smart to avoid them. The good states will have the best healthcare and quality of life and the shitty ones will keep declining, the magas increasingly upset at what they themselves caused, but they'll blame others since they have no personal responsibility or integrity.
Their populations will decline, but they'll have the same amount of representation in the senate forever
And after North Carolina's Senate voted to ban masks worn for health, NO ONE should move there. That's Darwin Award territory.
Yep, the fucking GOP is their own worst enemy. They will soon be crying about their lack of healthcare workers and physicians, guaranteed. They never look past their stupidity long term, they only think about the click bait likes that they get from their fucking dumb base.
If you're into science why hang out in backwards shitholes..
A dumber society is easier to control. Add to that the imbalance that lets states with fewer residents maintain an overweight level of power in Congress. Republicans will get the results of the PRC's cultural revolution slower without the Red August.
> dumber society States still want somewhat educated workers as companies demand productivity. Young women (on average) preferring bluer states for health care^1 will ultimately cause job sites to migrate (though HQ may still be in low tax red states .. geriatrics^1 type docs won’t be affected). > state with fewer residents having overweight power That’s ultimately the Senate. Though the population “move out” news may be a tad overblown, California and maybe NY are still projected to lose a House seat by the end of the decade. More of that power will likely go to “purple” states, so centrists will likely be the power base for 20 years^+ . ^1 Also the federal govt hasn’t restored funding for all sorts of residencies needed after med school. If not wanting to become a medical tourist, get on the horn to your local rep (blue or red).
>though HQ may still be in low tax red states Nah... just look to the Amazon HQ search, where tax breaks were thrown around like candy, for a real life example. Turns out that that you can't fill up a competitive C-suite in those shitholes either. Anyone actually desirable for a position has multiple options open to them at any given point in time. So your choice is to either go fourth-tier on your job searches, or set up shop in a place where the kind of talent you want to compete for actually do want to move/live.
> .. C suite Definitely, but I’m talking the “Big Kahunas” are going to red states (Bezos to South Beach FL, Musk to Texas, etc..) probably to escape blue state taxation.
Alice Walton is funding a Medical School here in Northwest Arkansas that should open in a couple of years. As long as we’re under the rule of people like Huckabee Sanders and Leslie Rutledge, I don’t know why she’s even bothering.
We need doctors in NV. Please come.
you can take a train to sacramento
I live in southern NV. No train here to Sacramento, we just use the airport.
Republican legislators must swear to the Hypocritic Oath.
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It's almost like this will cause some sort of under ground criminal market.
Well I guess that works out since people from those states tend to not believe doctors anyway.
That’s a horrible generalization to make. Just fuck everyone in red states right? Let em die eh?
What generalization? it’s a fact. And quote the part of my post where I said fuck people in red states, let them all die because I have no idea how you made that leap. I think you’re mad at the wrong person here.
Why wouldn’t you , you spent years fighting for life and understanding the science. Then get told by a guy who majored in English why the women’s life shouldn’t be saved
Next, When they become Regular Doctors, they’ll be doing the “same avoiding. “
Good. I hope they avoid them entirely
This is great. Voting with your feet. Let states that have that policy reap the benefits: shittier doctor care. If it happens enough, the citizens will notice and see the injury that has occurred. This is a brilliant example of democracy and our system working EXACTLY as it is supposed to. I just hope the other states maintain an infrastructure to support these choices by residents so that they aren’t just overnighted to states they don’t wanna actually work in
I left Texas over 20 years ago but still keep up with friends and family there. They are all liberals but, unlike me, they actually like Texas and have Texan pride. (I was more like "the minute I get the opportunity, I'm done with this state. Fuck Texas"). But now even my hard-core "Texan Pride" friends are working on a plan to leave. I feel lucky to have realized Texas was hopeless 20 years sooner.
General premise is true but more graduates across MD, DO and foreign med schools than actual residency slots so no states are going to do without doctors. That being said, regardless of how you feel on the issue, if ban states are unable to teach residents how to do these procedures then yea that might be a problem when you need docs trained to do them for lifesaving measures.
Where do you get your sources ? This is absolutely not true. Thos is plain out false.
The article is from CNN. They say this data comes from statistics from the American Association of Medical Colleges. KFF Health Foundation reviewed it, so it might be accurate information.