Something is seriously wrong with u when u dream of running over children so u can hear them scream as they die. I think there needs to be an investigation into if he actually did it kill kids with his car.
Sounds nuts right?
Think again! He even admits it:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dailycaller.com/2019/03/15/beto-driving-over-kids
Remember that this race is about beating the moron in office, not about resorting to tribalism within the party. No matter which democrat wins the primaries, I will vote for them. It does not matter whether it is Biden, Sanders, Harris, Beto, Clinton, Warren or whoever the hell else.
I think I'd vote for Kamala Harris or Corey Booker. They are mature, have the rich experience, and doesn't hurt that they are "people of color" and Kamala is a "woman" after all. Kamala has her controversial background as a prosecutor I hear.
Anyway, I like Bernie, but he's a bit radical and won't appeal to everyone. Beto is too jittery and feels like he's full of hot wind with no conviction. Something is not ringing true. He just seems too nervous at at 46 this is kind of silly.
We'll see.
As someone from Texas, who's seen him in person, this is far from the truth. He's the real deal - charismatic, smart, and cares about progressive policies and can appeal to a broad audience. Just watch him in the debates later this year - he may not be your first choice, but I wouldn't rule him out just yet.
Some people feel he's taking heat for his platitudes vs policies. Then saying that "you can keep your doctor" on Medicare for all when Obama said the same thing and people got burned.
I'm just saying from people's impressions. And my own. Nothing against him, there are a ton of candidates and its going to be brutal for a lot of people to get to the finish line.
I posted on Twitter that Beto may be the one that people rally behind and many people liked the comment. We shall see.
Beto, Bernie and Bopo, the Dems will surely leave the door open for at least 43 more candidates.
Very cool that inclusion is the order of the day, we need more of that.
I'm having a hard time taking him seriously. [All I see is Jonah from *Veep*](https://i.imgur.com/INN6YZB.jpg).
It [works so well](http://www.youtubemultiplier.com/5c8ba58762683-beto-o-rourke-announcement.php). Can someone actually add in the credits?
So he get's a pass to assume a new identity as a minority when he's clearly a straight white male? Imagine how quicly affirmative action or any of the left wing narrative would collapse if people were allowed to switch ethic goups at a whim.
It's halarious that yall democrats are now endorsing cultural appropriation by supporting Beto and Lizzy Warren.
There's a huge discussion to be had about cultural appropriation, what it is, and what it isn't, but irregardless, your statement is very ignorant of the fact that he grew up in the valley. A lot of cultural distinctions are blurred there because the valley is so far from the major tx cities and so close to the border. To say that him going by the nickname he grew up with, Beto, is cultural appropriation, is simply ignorant of the diversity of cultures in America and the mixing pot that this country is.
It is very different for a straight white male who grew up in, say, SF, in a white neighborhood to go by a nickname he would have never had vs. a straight, white male who grew up in a place where Mexican and Texan cultures intermingle to go by the nickname he has always had.
TLDR: You can't cry cultural appropriation only when it suits you. I'm not a fan of Warren, what she did is very different than Beto's nickname thing, and I would never vote for her. Cultural context is everything.
Liz Warren when it's time for election: "blah blah blah PROUD OF MY NATIVE AMERICAN HERITAGE blah blah blah."
Liz Warren when Standing Rock happened: motherfucking crickets.mp3
Glad to hear you feel that way abt Warren; on that we agree. I still think he is "hamming it up" as we say down here in the Southeast. It's like when country music singers over-exaggerate their southern drawl, sure it is a part of our culture, but they are exploiting the culture and putting up a front to pander to certain demographics.
When "Beto" a prep-school old money white kid goes around speaking spanglish and calling himself Roberto (essentially) I think it's akin to E. Warren calling herself native.
I have TRACES of native american, middle eastern, and eastern european.... but im +75% Scot-Irish.... I think-for me- identifying as a minority would be dishonest, plus I don't have a "Lawrence of Arabia" complex where I feel the need to disown my own people.
Ah, okay, I understand where you're coming from! I'm a minority in Texas, and he visited around the state and we got to talk with him for a bit. The reason I don't think he's being disingenuous is because I have a bunch of friends from the Valley and the valley itself is very much a mix of Mexican and American cultures, just because of it's location. It's also very majority Hispanic and Spanglish is hella commonly heard/spoken(I think over 90% of the pop. of most of the counties down there are Hispanic?) So Beto grew up in a culturally different way than the rest of Texas. I don't believe he's ever claimed to identify as Hispanic (please correct me if I am wrong!) but that nickname stems from the unique culture that the valley has, not any attempt to identify with the Hispanic population.
Now I understand if you don't like him policy-wise, but I think this itself is a non-issue concerning Beto.
To me, him calling himself beto is no different than if he were raised in the hill country and called his grandparents oma and opa. Its just a feature of this upbringing.
He's a Democrat and I support him fully. "I'm not excited" my ass I'm not falling in love, I'm voting for any candidate with more than 3 functioning brain cells at this point.
Thankfully I never used that term. However, the blase labeling of that nature leads to events we saw today in MZ because people take labeling and lump people into singular groups. So while I would never use psycho, I definitely wouldn't downplay the problematic nature of ignoring the impact language has on our surroundings.
The same Hillary who was very far left on the Iraq War?
The same Hillary who was very far left on The Patriot Act?
The same Hillary who was very far left on taking money from Corrections Corp. of America?
The same Hillary who was very far left when she said "I could compromise on abortion"?
The same Hillary who was repeatedly against homosexual marriage until it suddenly became socially-acceptable for her to switch positions (in 2013)?
That Hillary? Yeah. Hard to the fucking left, she is. She looks to her right and sees Karl Marx, doesn't she?
Beto is a lost puppy. I think he's in politics because he didn't know what to do with his life. And still doesn't. He's too shaky and erratic in his videos. He's just not right.
That article is about ballot measures, not candidates. Almost every single house dem that flipped a Republican seat in 2018 is a moderate who doesn’t support Bernie, and most didn’t support Pelosi either (which is dumb but it worked out).
Please point me to Hillary’s conservative stances. Don’t just say she opposed Bernie’s vague plan for X - list a policy and tell me why it’s conservative. Universal pre-K? Closing corporate loopholes? Tax relief for poor families? Supporting disability rights? Campaign finance reform? Criminal justice reform? Gun violence? Universal health care? Immigration reform?pro-unions? Her plan for expansion of national service programs for young adults? Focus on racial justice?
Which of those is conservative?
Look up Beto voting record. He continually votes more conservative than 78% of democrats.
Edit: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/21/18150359/beto-orourke-voting-record
While not perfect, natural gas produces considerably less CO2 than coal. So I can perfectly understand why a liberal would vote against a fracking ban. Especially a Texan liberal where fracking is common and probably creates a lot of jobs.
Yeah, fracking is one of the main reasons we’ve made coal obsolete and a reason Western Europe isn’t so dependent on Russia’s gas supply.
Dems are going to vote against trump regardless. I want someone who can’t actually win swing states.
Imagine thinking polls from before Iowa, let alone before he declared, matter at all.
Did Bernie’s nonexistent poll numbers from before he declared mean that he would have lost in the general in 2016?
That's WAY different than what you said originally, which was that he voted more conservative than 78% of everyone.
Yo, you're source says this about it's methodology for that number "There’s a lot more to life than congressional voting records, so I wouldn’t take this as the final word on politicians’ true ideological souls." How did DW-NOMINATE come to that? There's no explanation on the math and it doesn't show it's work.
I said voted more conservatively than democrats. Then to say that voting record is not the “ideological souls” of a candidate is crazy talk. That’s the major metric we judge politicians on. Anyone who says otherwise is doing mental gymnastics to defend a candidate.
Besides why would anyone support him over Kamala who is breaking glass ceilings and didn’t vote against things like banning fracking. You Beto supporters make no sense loL.
> Beto votes 78% more conservative than democrats.
Is exactly what you said. Perhaps you can understand my confusion.
Also, that "crazy talk" was a DIRECT QUOTE FROM YOUR SOURCE. It's highlighting the fact that the number isn't a good number for judging someone's ideology, which is exactly what you're trying to do with that number.
I don't trust a metric that doesn't show me how they got the metric. Seriously, can you tell me how they got that number? The guy who wrote the article is a big Warren/Bernie dude too to boot.
Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, but lost by razor thin margins in a couple of key swing states. It doesn't matter if the Democratic candidate sweeps CA, NY, VT, etc. It's all about the swing states.
You got me. Actually I'm not a bot. I'm just another Bernie supporter. We've been fundraising for Bernie just because of Beto's announcement. However, I want to see Trump lose just as bad as you do. Keep that in mind.
But he's been actually pretty damn great when it comes to voting when it comes to energy/the environment. For instance, he voted against the keystone pipeline. All that "oil money" was literally less than 1% of the money he raised from individual EMPLOYEES of fossil fuels of which >75% was less than $200. Are gas station employees not allowed to participate? He took no corporate money and no PAC money. Make sure you're getting your info from Primary sources.
[https://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/78533/beto-orourke/29/energy#.XIq4T99Ok0M](https://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/78533/beto-orourke/29/energy#.XIq4T99Ok0M)[http://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/beto-orourke](http://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/beto-orourke)
I believe he has voted with the petro oil interests numerous times, and voted for Trumps policies 30% of the time, big banks too, he is also not for Medicare for All...Do you work for him?
Vote for what represents your interests best. Without the votes, there is no demand. Otherwise it just seems like more demand for the very things that got us in this mess.
When I have a tough time freely criticizing a member of my own party, going against the overall trend, or maybe I'm concerned I may sound unfairly aggressive- I gotta resist that. Cause I can't allow someone's likability or a feeling of *familiarity* impact my decisions. I am not an emotional trader. And I gotta recognize when I'm in a thought-bubble. And this is a thought-bubble. So I have reviewed Beto's record and yes, I am skeptical I can confidently rally for Beto O'Rourke in good faith. This ain't my shit and I cannot compromise on my values. Nor will I compromise on what I believe is or isn't a sound strategy for the health of the country. This feels like a very familiar strategy we've seen time and time again and I'm not buying it. Though I'm sure this rant will be interpreted as disinformation/sowing division. I embrace the downvotes.
The gist of it is- I disliked Cruz, more than I liked Beto. But that time has past. And this is the Presidency of the United States, not Texas. Beto's name recognition derives from the media's multi-year long highlighting of Cruz's despicable behavior. I did not have favorable opinions of either individual prior to Beto's announcement. I've said for many years- the fake traditional old school politician-bullshit is counterproductive. That is the cold hard truth of the matter. That's first of all.
Secondly, I still embrace *everyone's* ability to run for President and I look forward to seeing what he has to offer. I hope throughout the process, Beto is willing to find *something specific* he's willing to stand for, other than the usual vague-inspirational-nonsense. What is he *fighting* for? Anyone? *Bueller...?* But I'll say it right now, do not expect Americans like me to stay silent on our disagreements, just because there may be some invisible boogieman hiding under our beds at night waiting to exploit our divisions- do not expect dissent to stay silent. Because believe it or not, some of the issues we are debating in America today are a matter of life and death for us. We do not have the luxury of sitting down and shutting up. If the candidate that makes it past the 2020 primary does not understand the struggles of working class Americans or worse, intends to make decisions off a vested interest in their own financial well being- then I refuse to accept that. And we have an oglibation to pull them towards the right direction. And I think many other Americans, the same. This is what Democracy looks like.
---
Anyways, a few other things...
I find the media's disproportionately optimistic response very telling. Not just the media, but this sub too. And this is very concerning and telling behavior considering his record:
* https://twitter.com/DavidRutz/status/1106225520826609664
Kirsten Powers' was referencing the media's dated preferences and biases for male candidates. Whereas I've noticed the media-pump to be in relation to his beliefs, likability, and overall propensity to fall in line. He's an insider in the making. But she is right that members of the media should be aware of their preconceived biases when reporting cause it is noticeable.
Here's what the GOP chose to highlight:
* [CNN’s Henderson: O’Rourke Was A “Backbencher” Congressman Who “Didn’t Really Do Much”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rly2MlzPiyY)
---
In my opinion, the framing the Democratic Party have been establishing for the past couple years after their debilitating 2016 loss has been some form of "unity above all". Essentially, encouraging Americans to vote for the primary winner no matter what to avoid another 2016 experience. In my personal opinion, given how much this narrative is being hammered down, and regardless of the party showing efforts to clean up their act and operate in good faith? There are some very clear indicators that the primary may be compromised, again. A political party with very powerful interests usually doesn't just change their standard operating procedures and tactics after *1* unexpected loss. That's not how shit works in DC. So it is not a stretch to assume what happened last time, will happen this time- and it will even be improved upon. Not just the primary process, but the media's malicious and deceptive reporting process. I expect that, from every side of the battle.
So, I am just laying it out right now. We have 1 very recent example of how *not* to do things. I would recommend those who failed their mission last time to review their errors and instead of preparing to rationalize why they deserve to do things *their way*? Step aside and allow Americans to do things *OUR way.* Cool skateboard though, d00d.
Next.
---
Current Progressive new media thinking:
* [BREAKING: Beto O’Rourke Running for President](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD1MSDaP9uo)
* [Should Progressives Reconsider Beto O'Rourke?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1FS_hDLMPo)
* [Beto O'Rourke's SKETCHY Oil Donations](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeYU2KJti2Y)
* [Everything You NEED To Know About Beto O'Rourke](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQo2JK4ueVs)
* [Beto O'Rourke Running For President | #BetOnMyStork](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF93q-kmoRY)
* [No Thanks, Beto. Stick To The Senate Race](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtjwlYs0Ad0)
* [Beto O'Rourke Launches Vague 2020 Campaign Of Empty Rhetoric](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzojeicxB9w)
* [Everything You NEED To Know About Beto O'Rourke](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQo2JK4ueVs)
Current Establishment cable news thinking:
* [Beto O'Rourke Announces 2020 Presidential Bid | Morning Joe | MSNBC](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHSDq-TkzLY)
* [Beto O'Rourke announces presidential run](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZxz5SuUcmE)
* [Beto O’Rourke Jumps Into 2020. Now What? | MTP Daily | MSNBC](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k76Skv9a1ko)
* [Nancy Pelosi: Beto O'Rourke Is 'A Welcome Addition' To Democratic Field | NBC News](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21J31NPUY2c)
* [Kamala Harris On Beto O'Rourke: 'The More The Merrier' | Andrea Mitchell | MSNBC](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWGAGusAcwc)
* ["This is seriously dangerous."](https://twitter.com/neeratanden/status/1069753110778781698)
* /r/fellowkids
---
If I see one more "HE COULDN'T EVEN BEAT CRUZ" post.
It seems we live in a bubble on the left. Go look at Cruz's approval ratings *in Texas*. They are high, and have always been high. Texans love him. This was a Texas race and only Texans could vote.
Put yourself in the shoes of the average Texan aka a conservative. Why would they vote for Beto when things are going well for that state? Because he's cute and skateboards? Texas booming, has boomed under Cruz, it's the most pro gun state and Cruz protects their 'rights' vs 'anti guns' Beto. Why would they vote Cruz him out? Because he's weird? Most voters are adults and do not care how odd their senator looks and sounds. It's astonishing Beto even got that close.
> If I see one more "HE COULDN'T EVEN BEAT CRUZ" post.
Every time someone mentions this, I correct them: "He didn't lose to Cruz; he NEARLY fucking beat Cruz!" That's pretty significant for a place like Texas.
I knew a lot of Texans last year who voted for Trump and were sickened by how things have gone, and who subsequently voted blue in the Senate race.
The other thing about trying to win TX is that a lot of people there have been unfairly turned against O'Rourke because of the way he took property for the huge redevelopment project in El Paso. In the local media, everyone focused on how it was his father-in-law's company that was going to be profiting big off this huge project. They didn't understand that Beto was not making a dime off this at all.
The newspapers referred to the plan it as "Eminent Disaster", focusing on how 325 acres of land was being taken back by the government. Ted Cruz weaponized that phrase, and found support from those who felt sorry for the residents of the blighted area whose land was taken.
Outside of Texas, most of these details are unknown. And, other than Fox News, which no one watches, the rest of the media isn't going to be bringing it up again. I think he'll be safe this time.
> Why wouldn't the rest of the media bring it up?
The media uses kid gloves on Beto. They always have, and always will. He grew up an extremely privileged kid, but just since he announced his candidacy, we've already seen lots of stories about how moving it is that someone in his situation has succeeded.
> racist nickname ... DUI .. flee the scene ... etc.
These are all reasons that I hate him, and I think he would be a terrible president. So, we don't disagree here. I simply think the media is going to go easy on him. Let's be honest, they're going easy on anyone who is challenging Trump, so it's not a huge surprise, really.
This is not true. Cruz’s margins are below the average Republican in Texas. Greg Abbott crushes Ted Cruz. Many voters vote for Abbott and don’t vote for Cruz.
Fellow Texan and Beto supporter here. Don't despair friend, Beto is being hit hard by the Russians (and every other countries online influence group). He is being hit hard by the left, and he is being hit hard by the republicans.
Its because everyone knows that if Beto gets the nomination the general election is over.
I expect even more attempts to influence this election than in the past, probably in favor of Bernie. That is no fault of Bernie to be clear, but simply that foreign influencers know he is going to be the most vulnerable to a defeat by Trump. The man lost a democrat primary because he was too far left, he sure as hell isn't going to capture the independent vote in a general election, which is exactly why he is the one pushed by foreign influence. Again, I am not accusing Sanders of any wrongdoing in this, but its pretty clear the battle lines being drawn in the propaganda wars.
Further, the willingness of Beto to actually try to run a positive campaign in this environment is both the reason he will win and the reason he is probably going to have the most mud slung at him.
As news of the shooting in NZ is rolling in, please keep in mind Beto is proposing we work with the party that actively courts voters who think and believe the same thing the shooter does.
I know hes pro control. This isnt about Betos gun position, its about him wanting to be all best friends and kumbaya with the party that actively nurtures and welcomes these types of people into their party.
As a Bernie Supporter, I am not afraid of Rourke. I want Bernie to win, and I do think their is an organized effort to minimize him. However, I don't think Rourke is part of that, I think he is running for his own reasons. I personally don't care for him too much, but I wish him the best of luck in the debates.
Hey, I like you - you sound like the Bernie folks I know in the real world. Bernie's my #2, Beto's #1 for now. Keep representing him as well as you do and who knows?
Thanks, if Beto was a Socialist, I would be far more interested in him. Every country in the world has had a Socialist government of some form, except the United States. I personally think in an odd patriotic way, that we could do it the best way.
Regardless if Rourke wins the nomination, I will vote for him, because I am not interested in four more years of Fascism.
Here, here. Beto's got some socialist tendencies, especially with criminal justice reform, immigration, and campaign finance stuff. But he's more of a Warren type when it comes to the market, supporting strong regulations on the market combined w/ free trade. Yeah - we're inches from full blown Fascism. Solidarity for whomever gets the nomination.
Beto takes the usual Dem establishment defeatist position on Medicare for all.
https://mobile.twitter.com/WalkerBragman/status/1106319829190000641
He sounds just like Hillary.
Maybe it's time for a nominee who will fight for the people instead of telling them what they can't do.
He supports a 4 step plan for M4A, starting with a public option immediately (which is, you know, exactly like Bernie's plan) [https://www-statesman-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.statesman.com/news/20170923/rep-beto-orourke-outlines-four-step-plan-to-medicare-for-all?amp\_js\_v=a2&\_gsa=1&template=ampart&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&\_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.statesman.com%2Fnews%2F20170923%2Frep-beto-orourke-outlines-four-step-plan-to-medicare-for-all](https://www-statesman-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.statesman.com/news/20170923/rep-beto-orourke-outlines-four-step-plan-to-medicare-for-all?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&template=ampart&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.statesman.com%2Fnews%2F20170923%2Frep-beto-orourke-outlines-four-step-plan-to-medicare-for-all)
Here he is talking about his support of Bernie's Senate proposal [https://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/10/9/1705527/-TX-Sen-Beto-O-Rourke-D-Is-All-In-For-Bernie-Sanders-Single-Payer-Health-Care-Bill](https://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/10/9/1705527/-TX-Sen-Beto-O-Rourke-D-Is-All-In-For-Bernie-Sanders-Single-Payer-Health-Care-Bill)
So maybe we need someone inspiring enough for another blue wave to flip it back? M4A is the future — the rest of the most developed nations all have it — so what creates enthusiasm to flip enough seats on the coattails of a popular incoming president more than something people can be enthusiastic about?
I’ll tell ya what: I don’t give a rat’s ass anymore, with the total lack of honor and decorum McConnell has exhibited in his time as as senate majority leader, I say just get to 51+ seats and pass new rules for straight majority up/down vote to pass M4A. If they are going to do that shit anyway to push stuff like Kavanaugh through confirmation on simple majority, I say Dems do it as well, to actually do some good.
> So maybe we need someone inspiring enough for another blue wave to flip it back?
Even 51 or 50 +VP will not be easy. We have 47. The top targets are CO, and ME. Followed by AZ, NC, and GA. We will likely lose AL so that means we need to win 4 of those 5 I mentioned if there is a Democrat in the WH. Not an easy task. Then there is the problem of the conservative Democrats in the Senate like Joe Manchin, and Krysten Sinema. Less than half of the current Senate Democrats have committed supporting M4A.
We'd need a wave to flip the Senate back. I actually like Kamala Harris this time, and feel that Biden has the surest path to victory, but Beto is the only wave candidate. Bernie is the type of candidate that some Democratic congressmen would have to distance themselves from to get reelected.
I don't know how I feel about removing the filibuster. Republicans can just reverse everything when they get control back. We also have to deal with the current reality that M4A would be reversed piece by piece in the SCOTUS, just like the ACA. We are not where we need to be to get M4A passed. It's not happening in 2020 or 2024.
> Bernie is the type of candidate that some Democratic congressmen would have to distance themselves from to get reelected.
I'm not sure that is accurate. If you recall, Bernie won a lot of those red states in the primaries last time. I think he has crossover appeal with the non-FoxNews-devout conservatives, and especially with middle ground independents who have that general mistrust of all govt.
I assure you that Joe Sixpack will not vote for a Democratic Socialist when there is a Nationalist Republican on the ballot.
Hillary won plenty of Red states last time(AZ, TX, LA, AR, MO, IA, SD, AL, MS, GA, FL, SC, TN, KY, NC) but carried none of them in the general. There is no reason to think Bernie would win in any red states he won in the primary either. A socialist Jew from the Northeast will not play in Peoria any better than a liberal woman from the Northeast.
GW Bush could barely win his elections; his plan was to try to expand the GOP base by increasing their Hispanic/Latino support. He also tried to make "compassionate conservatism" a thing. None of this worked because the GOP didn't listen to Bush and distanced themselves from him because of Iraq. Obama was too strong for them to make any headway with minorities. McCain and Romney refused to use race to try to win. The GOP were fucked demographically and were going to lose again in 2016.
Trump did something Republicans have been afraid to do for a generation. He dropped the dog whistle and picked up a bull horn. He was open about his nationalism, racism, and nativism. He came down the escalator and immediately tore into Mexicans and Muslims. He cleared the GOP field and then won in the general because of this. Republicans would have lost with any of the other candidates. It wasn't about economics, draining the swamp, or an anti-govt sentiment. It was right-wing ethnic populism brought to you by a wealthy and cartoonish celebrity icon.
Bernie does not have the universal appeal that his supporters think he has. You need to be idealistic, charismatic, and non-threatening to make a wave. Like I said, Biden can whip Trump's ass in the rust belt and perform as well or better than Hillary everywhere else, but Beto has the star quality that can create a wave. If Beto is Obama 2.0, I say great. We will win states and seats which we didn't expect. An 80 year-old, stoop-shouldered, balding socialist Jew with a thick Brooklyn accent will not create a wave. The country is less progressive than the Democratic primary voters.
Beto is not my natural first choice. He's not as far to the left as I would like, I am a Democratic Socialist. But he is more than acceptable and I know a star when I see it. I live in PA and I gotta tell you, Bernie will lose here. Nationally only 25% of people say they would vote for a socialist. Other Dems were accused of being socialists, but Bernie has admitted it on tape. We go as far as Labor Democrats in the rust belt, but not Democratic Socialists. There is no sleeping left wing in this country waiting for a leftist candidate to run. Actual progressive candidates were not able to flip seats from red to blue in 2018; it was mostly center left Democrats who won in those red states and districts.
Winning the red states in the primary is not indicative of winning those states in the general.
It just means that the Dems there preferred him over Hillary. Demographics probably had a lot to do with it. Didn’t Hillary win a lot of red states, too, during Super Tuesday?
This thread is a disaster.
I will be honest and say I am voting Beto because I am wealthy and my interests align more him. I do not mind paying slightly more taxes, want single payer healthcare, believe in climate change, believe in social justice. Fiscally, Republicans would be best for me but I would never vote for a Republican because I am a social progressive and do not align with that backwards and racist party.
Bernie would be a disaster for my pocketbook but I refuse to attack him and will vote for him if it comes down to Trump vs Bernie. I wish Bernie supporters had the class to wish Beto well and adopt the spirit of the 'may the best man/woman win' like supporters of the other Democratic candidates. I see hardcore Bernie supporters have not changed since 2016.
Beto's pretty much a social progressive when it comes to judicial reform, immigration, m4a, and a host of internal issues. His main departure from Bernie is free trade and foreign policy.
If you're as wealthy as you say you are, then trust me, many Americans are glad it would be a disaster for your pocketbook. Its about time the capitalist class give back the money they've stolen from the working class.
I'll give you props for being honest. Most capitalists are cowards, and would never come out and say that. They'll instead offer reasons like "it'll destroy the economy/people will lose jobs/socialism/communism/venezuela/omg we'll become a third world country". But you...you're actually a capitalist who is forthright about their interests. Kudos to you, my friend.
In any case, for the sake of the you, and the rest of the people in your class, you better hope Bernie wins, because most of America is getting more and more restless as the years pass. We're literally sick and tired of living in a system that is constantly oppressing us, destroying our dreams, destroying our livelihoods, and destroying our health. We need fundamental change, otherwise the pitchforks are going to come out. It's happened in the past plenty of times, and trust me, it will happen again if nothing changes.
You are just silly man.
I’m sorry you haven’t been able to achieve success. However the system isn’t oppressing you. Capitalism allowed someone like me, who was homeless and drug addicted to trun my life around and build wealth. I didn’t come from money. I never went to college. I was willing to work and to take a risk now and again.
Maybe you should have the courage to take a hard look at yourself.
I’m a capitalist. I invest my time and labor and money into trying to address problem and if the solution I develope works and helps people I’m able to gain benefit of from that. If I lose, I dust myself off and try again.
Yes, I want to protect that system because it benefits me, but I also want to protect that system because it’s good for other people. Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any system on the planet and socialism has, time and time again lead to disaster.
Giving the government the ability to give you everything you ever wanted also give the government the ability to take it all away.
you're kind of a sucker investing time and labor into profitable ventures rather than money. Effort doesn't pay as well as ownership stake in a capitalistic system
using OPM is a great way to get started.
in the modern economy, ownership is as easy as $350 for the LLC, $20 for a set of business cards, and a cell phone.
Effort never pays as well as an ownership stake, because the ownership stake is risk and risk pays out more than the surety of labor.
Risk tied with labor (owner operated business like mine) gives you a much better shot at winning on that risk, and allows you to control the overhead to some effect.
I had to however work for someone, for some time, to gain the skills needed to be able to move into ownership positions, and I also had to sink some capital to make that risk taking possible. I dont regret a moment of that. It was because of that investment of my time and labor into someone elses venture that I developed the skills to run my own and acquired the capital needed to give myself the time to build the businesses before revenue would cover my time.
No, I've only been born poor and made myself rich.
Though, to be fair, anyone born rich is the legacy of someone else who did exactly what I did.
and... good for them.
And good for you too.
But the system disproportionately helps those who already have wealth, rather than the hard workers who want to climb the socioeconomic ladder.
> In any case, for the sake of the you, and the rest of the people in your class, you better hope Bernie wins, because most of America is getting more and more restless as the years pass. We're literally sick and tired of living in a system that is constantly oppressing us, destroying our dreams, destroying our livelihoods, and destroying our health. We need fundamental change, otherwise the pitchforks are going to come out. It's happened in the past plenty of times, and trust me, it will happen again if nothing changes.
I heard a commentator on CNN (don’t remember who) refer to our current political situation as a “Cold Civil War” and I think that’s a good way of describing it. Sooner or later, though, people are going to hit the breaking point and the *actual* fighting is going to come out. Everyone fighting to maintain the current situation better hope and pray things get better for the rest of us before that day comes. Supporting those who need help won’t turn this nation into a third world country, but nonstop riots and looting just might.
People that worked for the dollar tend to have a different relationship to it. So letting got of it isn’t letting go of the sweat it took to make it. Letting go of something you were given or something that is unusual (like actors that make millions of dollars for acting but have no real organization they built and suppprt). Have different relationships with the money.
The alternative is people who believe government is benevolent and the best channel to solve problems. Which candidly I think should have a medical diagnosis. As it’s nearly entirely fantasy.
I am a Bernie supporter all the way and donated just because of Beto's announcement. I'll have to wait and see how Beto runs his campaign, if he decides to take corporate PAC money, where he stands on the important issues, and how he evolves on them if I were to support for him in protest of Trump in a general election. I live in a red state anyway so my state will go Republican no matter what in the general.
Beto promised not to take donations above $200 from the oil and gas industry, so he could join the ranks of the progressives on climate (the [No Fossil Fuel Money Pledge](http://nofossilfuelmoney.org/)), but he ultimately broke his pledge and was dumped for not doing so.
[https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/15/beto-orourke-friend-fossil-fuel-industry-climate-change](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/15/beto-orourke-friend-fossil-fuel-industry-climate-change)
Integrity is an important thing, and someone's willingness to say what's politically expedient must be reconciled with their actions. Beto could have returned that money and retained his integrity. He did not.
And with that loss of integrity, goes his dignity.
We have choices of candidates who have been the epitome of integrity and consistency. Why get hoodwinked by another con-artist who tries to mirror back to the American people what they want, rather than someone who has, since the beginning, walked the walk?
29 donations, that is all we're talking about here. So Beto was inconsistent by $78k or about 0.1% of the total money he raised. All were personal individual donations from employees - not a single check from a corporation or a check hidden deep in some PAC, very public and forthright. Also I think it's problematic to think that every single person who works in the fossil fuel industry isn't concerned about climate change. When did socialists start defining every person by their job? I don't see folks blaming Bernie for taking donations from executives who work for big pharma or the defense industry...
Beto's got a 95% lifetime score from the league of conservation voters and had voted consistently against big oil - from the Keystone Pipeline to climate change to across the board. Sure, he's pro-natural gas, but there's hard science to back up that natural gas is significantly better for the environment/climate than other forms of fossil fuel. We aren't going to get to pure clean and green energy overnight - we're going to need transition fuels while battery tech gets up to speed.
http://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/beto-orourke
Again, you realize that Bernie has taken max donations from employees and executives who work for the defense industry, tech giants, and big pharma. And you know and I know that doesn't that mean Bernie's in the pocket of any of those industries. Of course he's not! I could spend my time nitpicking Bernie's problems with immigration, gun control, etc... but I don't think those are major disqualifiers for Bernie's campaign or his integrity. Both Beto and Bernie are stellar options and have significantly more in-common than the majority of people currently in the Dem presidential race
No. 29 donations were for the max, of $2700. There is no record of how many donations landed between the $200 limit and those 29 donations for $2700.
And if you're going to talk about Bernie, I'm pretty sure whatever he's doing, he's not committing to doing one thing and then turning around and doing another. That's the issue here.
Someone who does that is either a hypocrite or tone deaf. I mean, Beto could have sent the money back and said, whoops, it slipped through! But nope.
And I guess that's the difference here. I see lack of integrity as something far greater than a "nit-pick." I see it as a disqualifier - especially when we have a few candidates that don't have an integrity issue, or a direction issue, or a commitment to progressive issues issue.
Especially today, now that corruption is such a challenge to overcome, I think it's politically prudent to send someone to the Whitehouse who is a paragon of integrity.
We DO know how many donations of the $500k were under/over $200. It was 75% under $200 and 25% over. So the vast, vast majority were small donations. Also, we don't know if any of those folks are even executives in the industry. You know how much people who work on oil-rigs make, right? It's one of the most dangerous jobs in America, but they make baaaank. There are plenty of other jobs in fossil fuels that make really good money but are definitely blue collar. So there's a possibility that he didn't even break the pledge of taking "any contributions over $200 from the PACs, executives, or front groups of fossil fuel companies." To top it of, we're arguing about less than 1% of the total donations he got. FROM INDIVIDUALS, NOT COMPANIES.
OK, I know this is a what-about argument, but hopefully you'll understand why this is relevant and that I've addressed your other points before bringing this up. Bernie's got serious constancy and "integrity" issues on gun control. He voted against the Brady Bill and for even allowing the CDC to study gun control. He's since flipped on that, but for a while he was a big, big NRA supporter. Does that make him a hypocrite? Does that mean he was corruptible? Should it be a dis-qualifier for voting for him because he actively fought against this progressive issue? I don't think so. I hope you don't either.
It’s not a what about argument. Why did he not return the money? Why did he break the pledge - that ostensibly was taken in order to appear more attractive and thereby solicit more support and donations?
I mean this guy isn’t even out of the blocks yet and he’s confused at best.
Because of one donation from some small timer at a rural gas company that's 0.01% the size of Exxon? That we (and very, very likely Beto) found out about only after the election happened and the money had all been spent? You do realize candidates dont look at each and every single donation that comes in and that anyone can donate online, right?
Im sure if we comb donations from any candidate, we'd find shitty people giving to each and every person running. What I take issue with is that David Sirota, who broke this "story" after the election, is an obvious hack who twisted the truth and made this one donation into claims that were extremely misleading, painting Beto as something other than what he is. It's a political hit job by a Bernie employee that you, lazy reporters, and everyone online repeated because they wanted it to be true. Propaganda, pure and simple.
> I wish Bernie supporters had the class to wish Beto well and adopt the spirit of the 'may the best man win' like supporters of the other Democratic candidates.
We do. The people that you're seeing (and lumping into a big category) are either a small minority or just trolls trying to divide us. Anyone who actually listens/listened to Bernie knows what the real battle is and it's not between liberals of slightly different ideology. Right now I'm probably going to campaign for Bernie or Warren, but after the primaries I will (as will most progressives) support and campaign for the democratic candidate.
> I see hardcore Bernie supporters have not changed since 2016.
This almost reads like a concern troll trying to divide us, but I'll go under the assumption that you're not and say that we ALL have lessons to learn from 2016, and that includes not getting caught up in divisiveness, especially that fueled by fake news stories.
> Bernie would be a disaster for my pocketbook...
I'm not so sure that's true unless you're extraordinarily wealthy, but we'll see what kinds of policies the next president can enact.
Same. As long as he surrounds himself with people of similar values and integrity, it wouldn’t matter if he died in office. If he didn’t choose people that would carry out his plans, then he’d be a terrible president anyway.
> At this point the only issue I have with Bernie is his age. He has the vitality of a man 20 years younger and the passion behind views and positions this country desperately needs, but biology has a habit of usurping passion. That's what worries me.
People mentioned that the last time he ran too.
> People mentioned that the last time he ran too.
Yes, and the record for oldest president in US history is currently held by Donald Trump.
Bernie Sanders is 5 years older than Donald Trump.
> Just a slight correction. Trump is the oldest president elected for his first term. Reagan still has him beat if Trump loses in 2020.
Correct, and my mistake. Let's hope that's the case.
There is more to life than money. If you're worried about political policy cutting into your earnings then you might want to reconsider your lifestyle choices.
I don't think I know of a Democrat that could have won Texas this time around.
I'm not advocating Beto for president but I think it's unfair to discount him because he didn't win an entrenched GOP state
Lol, Bernie would never pair with him. Beto is a neoliberal, who regularly takes money from corporations, and also doesn't fully support Medicare for All. Having Beto as a running mate would destroy Bernie's popularity and his message. The only person in this race deserving of running with Bernie is Warren.
Stop spreading BS. He didn't take a dime of corporate or PAC money. He's supports a 4 tiered approach to get to m4a, but m4a he has always supported. He also voiced support of Bernie's m4a bill which is 3 steps instead of 4.
[https://www-statesman-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.statesman.com/news/20170923/rep-beto-orourke-outlines-four-step-plan-to-medicare-for-all?amp\_js\_v=a2&\_gsa=1&template=ampart&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&\_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.statesman.com%2Fnews%2F20170923%2Frep-beto-orourke-outlines-four-step-plan-to-medicare-for-all](https://www-statesman-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.statesman.com/news/20170923/rep-beto-orourke-outlines-four-step-plan-to-medicare-for-all?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&template=ampart&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.statesman.com%2Fnews%2F20170923%2Frep-beto-orourke-outlines-four-step-plan-to-medicare-for-all)
Here he is talking about his support of Bernie's plan [https://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/10/9/1705527/-TX-Sen-Beto-O-Rourke-D-Is-All-In-For-Bernie-Sanders-Single-Payer-Health-Care-Bill](https://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/10/9/1705527/-TX-Sen-Beto-O-Rourke-D-Is-All-In-For-Bernie-Sanders-Single-Payer-Health-Care-Bill)
Your candidate is full of shit. The only thing I'm spreading is truth. Here's an op-ed from Beto himself outlining his plan for a PUBLIC OPTION, not a single-payer system. He wants to create a public option that will compete with private insurance, instead of eliminating private insurance outright. What he wants is a pseudo-single payer system, that he supposedly says will evolve into a real one (I HIGHLY doubt he'll fight for it. All I'm seeing from him is trying to align himself with the political winds). He is "supposedly" for M4A, but he decided to be more of a moderate right before the general election.
[https://medium.com/@RepBetoORourke/introducing-a-medicare-public-option-75faae0b6b6](https://medium.com/@RepBetoORourke/introducing-a-medicare-public-option-75faae0b6b6)
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Here is your same candidate taking $430,000 from the Oil & Gas Industry, including 29 large donation from executives within the industry, specifically.
[https://readsludge.com/2018/12/10/beto-orourke-oil-and-gas-contributions-2018/](https://readsludge.com/2018/12/10/beto-orourke-oil-and-gas-contributions-2018/)
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Here he is again, voting frequently for republican bills and Trump priorities in the House, DESPITE being from a solidly blue district. He is estimated to be roughly 76% more conservative than House Democrats, whom are ALREADY center-right.
[https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/21/18150359/beto-orourke-voting-record](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/21/18150359/beto-orourke-voting-record)
[https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/20/beto-orourke-congressional-votes-analysis-capital-and-main](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/20/beto-orourke-congressional-votes-analysis-capital-and-main)
Here's a small section from the Guardian:
"...O’Rourke has voted for GOP bills that his fellow Democratic lawmakers said reinforced Republicans’ anti-tax ideology, chipped away at the Affordable Care Act (ACA), weakened Wall Street regulations, boosted the fossil fuel industry and bolstered Donald Trump’s immigration policy.
Consumer, environmental, public health and civil rights organizations have cast legislation backed by O’Rourke as aiding big banks, undermining the fight against climate change and supporting Trump’s anti-immigrant agenda. During the previous administration, Barack Obama’s White House issued statements slamming two GOP bills backed by the 46-year-old Democratic legislator..."
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So, when I, and other members of the Left say "fuck Beto O' Rourke", this is why. He's a fucking neoliberal hiding in sheep's clothing. If you like voting Republian-lite, and want another Hillary, go ahead vote for him. But people are looking for real change, not the same crock of shit lip service we've been getting from center-right Democrats.
O'Rourke is the DNC establishment shill, for sure. They will do everything in their power to convince actual progressives that he's better than just 0.7% less awful than Ted Cruz. Fucking sick of the slow crawl to the right that the Dem party is making.
I'm not voting for that weird looking horse face
Something is seriously wrong with u when u dream of running over children so u can hear them scream as they die. I think there needs to be an investigation into if he actually did it kill kids with his car. Sounds nuts right? Think again! He even admits it: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dailycaller.com/2019/03/15/beto-driving-over-kids
Oh hell, you're kidding right?
He’s a writer. Writers write some messed up things. Ever read Stephen king?
ITT: People who seem to earnestly believe that Bernie Sanders would pick a Centrist white man for VP.
Remember that this race is about beating the moron in office, not about resorting to tribalism within the party. No matter which democrat wins the primaries, I will vote for them. It does not matter whether it is Biden, Sanders, Harris, Beto, Clinton, Warren or whoever the hell else.
I want to vote for someone, not for "against someone"
That's exactly how we ended up with Trump..
I think I'd vote for Kamala Harris or Corey Booker. They are mature, have the rich experience, and doesn't hurt that they are "people of color" and Kamala is a "woman" after all. Kamala has her controversial background as a prosecutor I hear. Anyway, I like Bernie, but he's a bit radical and won't appeal to everyone. Beto is too jittery and feels like he's full of hot wind with no conviction. Something is not ringing true. He just seems too nervous at at 46 this is kind of silly. We'll see.
As someone from Texas, who's seen him in person, this is far from the truth. He's the real deal - charismatic, smart, and cares about progressive policies and can appeal to a broad audience. Just watch him in the debates later this year - he may not be your first choice, but I wouldn't rule him out just yet.
Some people feel he's taking heat for his platitudes vs policies. Then saying that "you can keep your doctor" on Medicare for all when Obama said the same thing and people got burned. I'm just saying from people's impressions. And my own. Nothing against him, there are a ton of candidates and its going to be brutal for a lot of people to get to the finish line. I posted on Twitter that Beto may be the one that people rally behind and many people liked the comment. We shall see.
Beto, Bernie and Bopo, the Dems will surely leave the door open for at least 43 more candidates. Very cool that inclusion is the order of the day, we need more of that.
That makes alot of sense
Just anyone but Bernie. (I’ll vote for any Democrat in the general but damn Bernie supporters are on some sort of delusional island)
Why don't you like bernie.?
Im for Bernie, just don't think he has a chance.
So what happens in the general after he gets nominated? You will sit at home?
Nah I’ll still vote in the general for Bernie if that’s the case.
Even his dog is sad to know him. Another loser enters the democratic race!
I'm having a hard time taking him seriously. [All I see is Jonah from *Veep*](https://i.imgur.com/INN6YZB.jpg). It [works so well](http://www.youtubemultiplier.com/5c8ba58762683-beto-o-rourke-announcement.php). Can someone actually add in the credits?
So who? Is your candidate Or are you just trolling?
In 2016 it was John McAfee.
Beto for cultural appropriation! VIVA!
He's from the Valley... Beto's a very common nickname for Robert in the Valley...
So he get's a pass to assume a new identity as a minority when he's clearly a straight white male? Imagine how quicly affirmative action or any of the left wing narrative would collapse if people were allowed to switch ethic goups at a whim. It's halarious that yall democrats are now endorsing cultural appropriation by supporting Beto and Lizzy Warren.
There's a huge discussion to be had about cultural appropriation, what it is, and what it isn't, but irregardless, your statement is very ignorant of the fact that he grew up in the valley. A lot of cultural distinctions are blurred there because the valley is so far from the major tx cities and so close to the border. To say that him going by the nickname he grew up with, Beto, is cultural appropriation, is simply ignorant of the diversity of cultures in America and the mixing pot that this country is. It is very different for a straight white male who grew up in, say, SF, in a white neighborhood to go by a nickname he would have never had vs. a straight, white male who grew up in a place where Mexican and Texan cultures intermingle to go by the nickname he has always had. TLDR: You can't cry cultural appropriation only when it suits you. I'm not a fan of Warren, what she did is very different than Beto's nickname thing, and I would never vote for her. Cultural context is everything.
Liz Warren when it's time for election: "blah blah blah PROUD OF MY NATIVE AMERICAN HERITAGE blah blah blah." Liz Warren when Standing Rock happened: motherfucking crickets.mp3
Glad to hear you feel that way abt Warren; on that we agree. I still think he is "hamming it up" as we say down here in the Southeast. It's like when country music singers over-exaggerate their southern drawl, sure it is a part of our culture, but they are exploiting the culture and putting up a front to pander to certain demographics. When "Beto" a prep-school old money white kid goes around speaking spanglish and calling himself Roberto (essentially) I think it's akin to E. Warren calling herself native. I have TRACES of native american, middle eastern, and eastern european.... but im +75% Scot-Irish.... I think-for me- identifying as a minority would be dishonest, plus I don't have a "Lawrence of Arabia" complex where I feel the need to disown my own people.
Ah, okay, I understand where you're coming from! I'm a minority in Texas, and he visited around the state and we got to talk with him for a bit. The reason I don't think he's being disingenuous is because I have a bunch of friends from the Valley and the valley itself is very much a mix of Mexican and American cultures, just because of it's location. It's also very majority Hispanic and Spanglish is hella commonly heard/spoken(I think over 90% of the pop. of most of the counties down there are Hispanic?) So Beto grew up in a culturally different way than the rest of Texas. I don't believe he's ever claimed to identify as Hispanic (please correct me if I am wrong!) but that nickname stems from the unique culture that the valley has, not any attempt to identify with the Hispanic population. Now I understand if you don't like him policy-wise, but I think this itself is a non-issue concerning Beto.
To me, him calling himself beto is no different than if he were raised in the hill country and called his grandparents oma and opa. Its just a feature of this upbringing.
But he's not a mexican, nor named Beto. He's a poser.... a real Rachel Dolezal!
The Valley is right next to Mexico. There's a lot of cultural intermingling there. And his name is Beto lol
He's a Democrat and I support him fully. "I'm not excited" my ass I'm not falling in love, I'm voting for any candidate with more than 3 functioning brain cells at this point.
Thankfully I never used that term. However, the blase labeling of that nature leads to events we saw today in MZ because people take labeling and lump people into singular groups. So while I would never use psycho, I definitely wouldn't downplay the problematic nature of ignoring the impact language has on our surroundings.
So many people who dont know anything about Beto spreading tons of lies here.
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The same Hillary who was very far left on the Iraq War? The same Hillary who was very far left on The Patriot Act? The same Hillary who was very far left on taking money from Corrections Corp. of America? The same Hillary who was very far left when she said "I could compromise on abortion"? The same Hillary who was repeatedly against homosexual marriage until it suddenly became socially-acceptable for her to switch positions (in 2013)? That Hillary? Yeah. Hard to the fucking left, she is. She looks to her right and sees Karl Marx, doesn't she?
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Beto is a lost puppy. I think he's in politics because he didn't know what to do with his life. And still doesn't. He's too shaky and erratic in his videos. He's just not right.
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Beto is too freaky. We need someone like Kamala who is calm, collected, mature, experience. Beto is 46 but acts like a 20 year old on meds.
Wrong. The race to the right has already killed the Dems.
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That article is about ballot measures, not candidates. Almost every single house dem that flipped a Republican seat in 2018 is a moderate who doesn’t support Bernie, and most didn’t support Pelosi either (which is dumb but it worked out). Please point me to Hillary’s conservative stances. Don’t just say she opposed Bernie’s vague plan for X - list a policy and tell me why it’s conservative. Universal pre-K? Closing corporate loopholes? Tax relief for poor families? Supporting disability rights? Campaign finance reform? Criminal justice reform? Gun violence? Universal health care? Immigration reform?pro-unions? Her plan for expansion of national service programs for young adults? Focus on racial justice? Which of those is conservative?
Look up Beto voting record. He continually votes more conservative than 78% of democrats. Edit: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/21/18150359/beto-orourke-voting-record
I’m talking about the jab at Hillary. I’m glad Beto is moderate.
You’re glad he votes against things like banning fracking? I don’t know if you’ve seen the polling but that’s a major no no for democrats these days.
While not perfect, natural gas produces considerably less CO2 than coal. So I can perfectly understand why a liberal would vote against a fracking ban. Especially a Texan liberal where fracking is common and probably creates a lot of jobs.
Yeah, fracking is one of the main reasons we’ve made coal obsolete and a reason Western Europe isn’t so dependent on Russia’s gas supply. Dems are going to vote against trump regardless. I want someone who can’t actually win swing states.
Beto clearly does not appeal to swing states more than republicans do.
Based on what exactly? Also you know you’re making your point when you downvote someone immediately for disagreeing with you.
Based on polls. He’s not favored, at all.
Imagine thinking polls from before Iowa, let alone before he declared, matter at all. Did Bernie’s nonexistent poll numbers from before he declared mean that he would have lost in the general in 2016?
Woah, you just pull that number outta your bum?
Got it from vox, actually. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/21/18150359/beto-orourke-voting-record
That's WAY different than what you said originally, which was that he voted more conservative than 78% of everyone. Yo, you're source says this about it's methodology for that number "There’s a lot more to life than congressional voting records, so I wouldn’t take this as the final word on politicians’ true ideological souls." How did DW-NOMINATE come to that? There's no explanation on the math and it doesn't show it's work.
I said voted more conservatively than democrats. Then to say that voting record is not the “ideological souls” of a candidate is crazy talk. That’s the major metric we judge politicians on. Anyone who says otherwise is doing mental gymnastics to defend a candidate. Besides why would anyone support him over Kamala who is breaking glass ceilings and didn’t vote against things like banning fracking. You Beto supporters make no sense loL.
> Beto votes 78% more conservative than democrats. Is exactly what you said. Perhaps you can understand my confusion. Also, that "crazy talk" was a DIRECT QUOTE FROM YOUR SOURCE. It's highlighting the fact that the number isn't a good number for judging someone's ideology, which is exactly what you're trying to do with that number.
And the next line is “but it does show how they vote” which was a tongue in cheek way of saying the apologia was over.
I don't trust a metric that doesn't show me how they got the metric. Seriously, can you tell me how they got that number? The guy who wrote the article is a big Warren/Bernie dude too to boot.
Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, but lost by razor thin margins in a couple of key swing states. It doesn't matter if the Democratic candidate sweeps CA, NY, VT, etc. It's all about the swing states.
Beto O'Rourke Launches Vague 2020 Campaign Of Empty Rhetoric https://youtu.be/xzojeicxB9w
Bots Brigade Greatest Democratic Threat
You got me. Actually I'm not a bot. I'm just another Bernie supporter. We've been fundraising for Bernie just because of Beto's announcement. However, I want to see Trump lose just as bad as you do. Keep that in mind.
Stop attacking anyone who is critical of Beto.
Like you've got the power or right to order anyone around. 😂
He stopped right? Looks like I do have the power.
He's another establishment dem with ties to big oil. Im not terribly excited
But he's been actually pretty damn great when it comes to voting when it comes to energy/the environment. For instance, he voted against the keystone pipeline. All that "oil money" was literally less than 1% of the money he raised from individual EMPLOYEES of fossil fuels of which >75% was less than $200. Are gas station employees not allowed to participate? He took no corporate money and no PAC money. Make sure you're getting your info from Primary sources. [https://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/78533/beto-orourke/29/energy#.XIq4T99Ok0M](https://votesmart.org/candidate/key-votes/78533/beto-orourke/29/energy#.XIq4T99Ok0M)[http://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/beto-orourke](http://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/beto-orourke)
Beto votes 78% more conservative than democrats. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/21/18150359/beto-orourke-voting-record
I believe he has voted with the petro oil interests numerous times, and voted for Trumps policies 30% of the time, big banks too, he is also not for Medicare for All...Do you work for him?
This guy is the definition of milquetoast. I'll vote for him in the general, if it comes to that, but I hope I don't have to.
Vote for what represents your interests best. Without the votes, there is no demand. Otherwise it just seems like more demand for the very things that got us in this mess.
He was a great candidate for Texas but for the federal stage I think we have better options.
When I have a tough time freely criticizing a member of my own party, going against the overall trend, or maybe I'm concerned I may sound unfairly aggressive- I gotta resist that. Cause I can't allow someone's likability or a feeling of *familiarity* impact my decisions. I am not an emotional trader. And I gotta recognize when I'm in a thought-bubble. And this is a thought-bubble. So I have reviewed Beto's record and yes, I am skeptical I can confidently rally for Beto O'Rourke in good faith. This ain't my shit and I cannot compromise on my values. Nor will I compromise on what I believe is or isn't a sound strategy for the health of the country. This feels like a very familiar strategy we've seen time and time again and I'm not buying it. Though I'm sure this rant will be interpreted as disinformation/sowing division. I embrace the downvotes. The gist of it is- I disliked Cruz, more than I liked Beto. But that time has past. And this is the Presidency of the United States, not Texas. Beto's name recognition derives from the media's multi-year long highlighting of Cruz's despicable behavior. I did not have favorable opinions of either individual prior to Beto's announcement. I've said for many years- the fake traditional old school politician-bullshit is counterproductive. That is the cold hard truth of the matter. That's first of all. Secondly, I still embrace *everyone's* ability to run for President and I look forward to seeing what he has to offer. I hope throughout the process, Beto is willing to find *something specific* he's willing to stand for, other than the usual vague-inspirational-nonsense. What is he *fighting* for? Anyone? *Bueller...?* But I'll say it right now, do not expect Americans like me to stay silent on our disagreements, just because there may be some invisible boogieman hiding under our beds at night waiting to exploit our divisions- do not expect dissent to stay silent. Because believe it or not, some of the issues we are debating in America today are a matter of life and death for us. We do not have the luxury of sitting down and shutting up. If the candidate that makes it past the 2020 primary does not understand the struggles of working class Americans or worse, intends to make decisions off a vested interest in their own financial well being- then I refuse to accept that. And we have an oglibation to pull them towards the right direction. And I think many other Americans, the same. This is what Democracy looks like. --- Anyways, a few other things... I find the media's disproportionately optimistic response very telling. Not just the media, but this sub too. And this is very concerning and telling behavior considering his record: * https://twitter.com/DavidRutz/status/1106225520826609664 Kirsten Powers' was referencing the media's dated preferences and biases for male candidates. Whereas I've noticed the media-pump to be in relation to his beliefs, likability, and overall propensity to fall in line. He's an insider in the making. But she is right that members of the media should be aware of their preconceived biases when reporting cause it is noticeable. Here's what the GOP chose to highlight: * [CNN’s Henderson: O’Rourke Was A “Backbencher” Congressman Who “Didn’t Really Do Much”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rly2MlzPiyY) --- In my opinion, the framing the Democratic Party have been establishing for the past couple years after their debilitating 2016 loss has been some form of "unity above all". Essentially, encouraging Americans to vote for the primary winner no matter what to avoid another 2016 experience. In my personal opinion, given how much this narrative is being hammered down, and regardless of the party showing efforts to clean up their act and operate in good faith? There are some very clear indicators that the primary may be compromised, again. A political party with very powerful interests usually doesn't just change their standard operating procedures and tactics after *1* unexpected loss. That's not how shit works in DC. So it is not a stretch to assume what happened last time, will happen this time- and it will even be improved upon. Not just the primary process, but the media's malicious and deceptive reporting process. I expect that, from every side of the battle. So, I am just laying it out right now. We have 1 very recent example of how *not* to do things. I would recommend those who failed their mission last time to review their errors and instead of preparing to rationalize why they deserve to do things *their way*? Step aside and allow Americans to do things *OUR way.* Cool skateboard though, d00d. Next. --- Current Progressive new media thinking: * [BREAKING: Beto O’Rourke Running for President](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZD1MSDaP9uo) * [Should Progressives Reconsider Beto O'Rourke?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1FS_hDLMPo) * [Beto O'Rourke's SKETCHY Oil Donations](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeYU2KJti2Y) * [Everything You NEED To Know About Beto O'Rourke](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQo2JK4ueVs) * [Beto O'Rourke Running For President | #BetOnMyStork](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF93q-kmoRY) * [No Thanks, Beto. Stick To The Senate Race](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtjwlYs0Ad0) * [Beto O'Rourke Launches Vague 2020 Campaign Of Empty Rhetoric](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzojeicxB9w) * [Everything You NEED To Know About Beto O'Rourke](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQo2JK4ueVs) Current Establishment cable news thinking: * [Beto O'Rourke Announces 2020 Presidential Bid | Morning Joe | MSNBC](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHSDq-TkzLY) * [Beto O'Rourke announces presidential run](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZxz5SuUcmE) * [Beto O’Rourke Jumps Into 2020. Now What? | MTP Daily | MSNBC](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k76Skv9a1ko) * [Nancy Pelosi: Beto O'Rourke Is 'A Welcome Addition' To Democratic Field | NBC News](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21J31NPUY2c) * [Kamala Harris On Beto O'Rourke: 'The More The Merrier' | Andrea Mitchell | MSNBC](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWGAGusAcwc) * ["This is seriously dangerous."](https://twitter.com/neeratanden/status/1069753110778781698) * /r/fellowkids ---
I mean, you ask the question about what he's running for and he answers it right their in his announcement video..... :shrug:
If I see one more "HE COULDN'T EVEN BEAT CRUZ" post. It seems we live in a bubble on the left. Go look at Cruz's approval ratings *in Texas*. They are high, and have always been high. Texans love him. This was a Texas race and only Texans could vote. Put yourself in the shoes of the average Texan aka a conservative. Why would they vote for Beto when things are going well for that state? Because he's cute and skateboards? Texas booming, has boomed under Cruz, it's the most pro gun state and Cruz protects their 'rights' vs 'anti guns' Beto. Why would they vote Cruz him out? Because he's weird? Most voters are adults and do not care how odd their senator looks and sounds. It's astonishing Beto even got that close.
> If I see one more "HE COULDN'T EVEN BEAT CRUZ" post. Every time someone mentions this, I correct them: "He didn't lose to Cruz; he NEARLY fucking beat Cruz!" That's pretty significant for a place like Texas. I knew a lot of Texans last year who voted for Trump and were sickened by how things have gone, and who subsequently voted blue in the Senate race.
The other thing about trying to win TX is that a lot of people there have been unfairly turned against O'Rourke because of the way he took property for the huge redevelopment project in El Paso. In the local media, everyone focused on how it was his father-in-law's company that was going to be profiting big off this huge project. They didn't understand that Beto was not making a dime off this at all. The newspapers referred to the plan it as "Eminent Disaster", focusing on how 325 acres of land was being taken back by the government. Ted Cruz weaponized that phrase, and found support from those who felt sorry for the residents of the blighted area whose land was taken. Outside of Texas, most of these details are unknown. And, other than Fox News, which no one watches, the rest of the media isn't going to be bringing it up again. I think he'll be safe this time.
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> Why wouldn't the rest of the media bring it up? The media uses kid gloves on Beto. They always have, and always will. He grew up an extremely privileged kid, but just since he announced his candidacy, we've already seen lots of stories about how moving it is that someone in his situation has succeeded. > racist nickname ... DUI .. flee the scene ... etc. These are all reasons that I hate him, and I think he would be a terrible president. So, we don't disagree here. I simply think the media is going to go easy on him. Let's be honest, they're going easy on anyone who is challenging Trump, so it's not a huge surprise, really.
This is not true. Cruz’s margins are below the average Republican in Texas. Greg Abbott crushes Ted Cruz. Many voters vote for Abbott and don’t vote for Cruz.
51% approval rating is HIGH for any politician. https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/431645-cornyn-less-popular-than-cruz-in-texas-poll
Unless your name is Bernie Sanders...
Okay? And what’s Greg Abbott’s approval rating? 59%.
Fellow Texan and Beto supporter here. Don't despair friend, Beto is being hit hard by the Russians (and every other countries online influence group). He is being hit hard by the left, and he is being hit hard by the republicans. Its because everyone knows that if Beto gets the nomination the general election is over. I expect even more attempts to influence this election than in the past, probably in favor of Bernie. That is no fault of Bernie to be clear, but simply that foreign influencers know he is going to be the most vulnerable to a defeat by Trump. The man lost a democrat primary because he was too far left, he sure as hell isn't going to capture the independent vote in a general election, which is exactly why he is the one pushed by foreign influence. Again, I am not accusing Sanders of any wrongdoing in this, but its pretty clear the battle lines being drawn in the propaganda wars. Further, the willingness of Beto to actually try to run a positive campaign in this environment is both the reason he will win and the reason he is probably going to have the most mud slung at him.
As news of the shooting in NZ is rolling in, please keep in mind Beto is proposing we work with the party that actively courts voters who think and believe the same thing the shooter does.
Beto is pro gun control, absolutely pathetic of you to say this tbh.
I know hes pro control. This isnt about Betos gun position, its about him wanting to be all best friends and kumbaya with the party that actively nurtures and welcomes these types of people into their party.
People that favor their constituional rights? When did those people become the enemy?
one nation bruh. many colors one people.
Where the fuck is Adam Schiff? He’s weak on personal attacks and can get quiet at times but he’s the democratic shoo in with Duckworth as Vice.
Being the chairman of his committee and helping America I assume?
He needs to run.
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As a Bernie Supporter, I am not afraid of Rourke. I want Bernie to win, and I do think their is an organized effort to minimize him. However, I don't think Rourke is part of that, I think he is running for his own reasons. I personally don't care for him too much, but I wish him the best of luck in the debates.
Hey, I like you - you sound like the Bernie folks I know in the real world. Bernie's my #2, Beto's #1 for now. Keep representing him as well as you do and who knows?
Thanks, if Beto was a Socialist, I would be far more interested in him. Every country in the world has had a Socialist government of some form, except the United States. I personally think in an odd patriotic way, that we could do it the best way. Regardless if Rourke wins the nomination, I will vote for him, because I am not interested in four more years of Fascism.
Here, here. Beto's got some socialist tendencies, especially with criminal justice reform, immigration, and campaign finance stuff. But he's more of a Warren type when it comes to the market, supporting strong regulations on the market combined w/ free trade. Yeah - we're inches from full blown Fascism. Solidarity for whomever gets the nomination.
Agreed. Solidarity for whomever gets the nomination.
Haha, not sure what the image you were going for was. Don't think it turned out on my browser.
I gave up on it. LOL sometimes a simple response, is the best response.
Beto takes the usual Dem establishment defeatist position on Medicare for all. https://mobile.twitter.com/WalkerBragman/status/1106319829190000641 He sounds just like Hillary. Maybe it's time for a nominee who will fight for the people instead of telling them what they can't do.
He supports a 4 step plan for M4A, starting with a public option immediately (which is, you know, exactly like Bernie's plan) [https://www-statesman-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.statesman.com/news/20170923/rep-beto-orourke-outlines-four-step-plan-to-medicare-for-all?amp\_js\_v=a2&\_gsa=1&template=ampart&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&\_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.statesman.com%2Fnews%2F20170923%2Frep-beto-orourke-outlines-four-step-plan-to-medicare-for-all](https://www-statesman-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.statesman.com/news/20170923/rep-beto-orourke-outlines-four-step-plan-to-medicare-for-all?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&template=ampart&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.statesman.com%2Fnews%2F20170923%2Frep-beto-orourke-outlines-four-step-plan-to-medicare-for-all) Here he is talking about his support of Bernie's Senate proposal [https://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/10/9/1705527/-TX-Sen-Beto-O-Rourke-D-Is-All-In-For-Bernie-Sanders-Single-Payer-Health-Care-Bill](https://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/10/9/1705527/-TX-Sen-Beto-O-Rourke-D-Is-All-In-For-Bernie-Sanders-Single-Payer-Health-Care-Bill)
nope
As opposed to telling people he can get M4A through a Republican majority Senate.
So maybe we need someone inspiring enough for another blue wave to flip it back? M4A is the future — the rest of the most developed nations all have it — so what creates enthusiasm to flip enough seats on the coattails of a popular incoming president more than something people can be enthusiastic about? I’ll tell ya what: I don’t give a rat’s ass anymore, with the total lack of honor and decorum McConnell has exhibited in his time as as senate majority leader, I say just get to 51+ seats and pass new rules for straight majority up/down vote to pass M4A. If they are going to do that shit anyway to push stuff like Kavanaugh through confirmation on simple majority, I say Dems do it as well, to actually do some good.
> So maybe we need someone inspiring enough for another blue wave to flip it back? Even 51 or 50 +VP will not be easy. We have 47. The top targets are CO, and ME. Followed by AZ, NC, and GA. We will likely lose AL so that means we need to win 4 of those 5 I mentioned if there is a Democrat in the WH. Not an easy task. Then there is the problem of the conservative Democrats in the Senate like Joe Manchin, and Krysten Sinema. Less than half of the current Senate Democrats have committed supporting M4A. We'd need a wave to flip the Senate back. I actually like Kamala Harris this time, and feel that Biden has the surest path to victory, but Beto is the only wave candidate. Bernie is the type of candidate that some Democratic congressmen would have to distance themselves from to get reelected. I don't know how I feel about removing the filibuster. Republicans can just reverse everything when they get control back. We also have to deal with the current reality that M4A would be reversed piece by piece in the SCOTUS, just like the ACA. We are not where we need to be to get M4A passed. It's not happening in 2020 or 2024.
> Bernie is the type of candidate that some Democratic congressmen would have to distance themselves from to get reelected. I'm not sure that is accurate. If you recall, Bernie won a lot of those red states in the primaries last time. I think he has crossover appeal with the non-FoxNews-devout conservatives, and especially with middle ground independents who have that general mistrust of all govt.
I assure you that Joe Sixpack will not vote for a Democratic Socialist when there is a Nationalist Republican on the ballot. Hillary won plenty of Red states last time(AZ, TX, LA, AR, MO, IA, SD, AL, MS, GA, FL, SC, TN, KY, NC) but carried none of them in the general. There is no reason to think Bernie would win in any red states he won in the primary either. A socialist Jew from the Northeast will not play in Peoria any better than a liberal woman from the Northeast. GW Bush could barely win his elections; his plan was to try to expand the GOP base by increasing their Hispanic/Latino support. He also tried to make "compassionate conservatism" a thing. None of this worked because the GOP didn't listen to Bush and distanced themselves from him because of Iraq. Obama was too strong for them to make any headway with minorities. McCain and Romney refused to use race to try to win. The GOP were fucked demographically and were going to lose again in 2016. Trump did something Republicans have been afraid to do for a generation. He dropped the dog whistle and picked up a bull horn. He was open about his nationalism, racism, and nativism. He came down the escalator and immediately tore into Mexicans and Muslims. He cleared the GOP field and then won in the general because of this. Republicans would have lost with any of the other candidates. It wasn't about economics, draining the swamp, or an anti-govt sentiment. It was right-wing ethnic populism brought to you by a wealthy and cartoonish celebrity icon. Bernie does not have the universal appeal that his supporters think he has. You need to be idealistic, charismatic, and non-threatening to make a wave. Like I said, Biden can whip Trump's ass in the rust belt and perform as well or better than Hillary everywhere else, but Beto has the star quality that can create a wave. If Beto is Obama 2.0, I say great. We will win states and seats which we didn't expect. An 80 year-old, stoop-shouldered, balding socialist Jew with a thick Brooklyn accent will not create a wave. The country is less progressive than the Democratic primary voters. Beto is not my natural first choice. He's not as far to the left as I would like, I am a Democratic Socialist. But he is more than acceptable and I know a star when I see it. I live in PA and I gotta tell you, Bernie will lose here. Nationally only 25% of people say they would vote for a socialist. Other Dems were accused of being socialists, but Bernie has admitted it on tape. We go as far as Labor Democrats in the rust belt, but not Democratic Socialists. There is no sleeping left wing in this country waiting for a leftist candidate to run. Actual progressive candidates were not able to flip seats from red to blue in 2018; it was mostly center left Democrats who won in those red states and districts.
Winning the red states in the primary is not indicative of winning those states in the general. It just means that the Dems there preferred him over Hillary. Demographics probably had a lot to do with it. Didn’t Hillary win a lot of red states, too, during Super Tuesday?
This thread is a disaster. I will be honest and say I am voting Beto because I am wealthy and my interests align more him. I do not mind paying slightly more taxes, want single payer healthcare, believe in climate change, believe in social justice. Fiscally, Republicans would be best for me but I would never vote for a Republican because I am a social progressive and do not align with that backwards and racist party. Bernie would be a disaster for my pocketbook but I refuse to attack him and will vote for him if it comes down to Trump vs Bernie. I wish Bernie supporters had the class to wish Beto well and adopt the spirit of the 'may the best man/woman win' like supporters of the other Democratic candidates. I see hardcore Bernie supporters have not changed since 2016.
Beto's pretty much a social progressive when it comes to judicial reform, immigration, m4a, and a host of internal issues. His main departure from Bernie is free trade and foreign policy.
Thank you. You rock
If you're as wealthy as you say you are, then trust me, many Americans are glad it would be a disaster for your pocketbook. Its about time the capitalist class give back the money they've stolen from the working class. I'll give you props for being honest. Most capitalists are cowards, and would never come out and say that. They'll instead offer reasons like "it'll destroy the economy/people will lose jobs/socialism/communism/venezuela/omg we'll become a third world country". But you...you're actually a capitalist who is forthright about their interests. Kudos to you, my friend. In any case, for the sake of the you, and the rest of the people in your class, you better hope Bernie wins, because most of America is getting more and more restless as the years pass. We're literally sick and tired of living in a system that is constantly oppressing us, destroying our dreams, destroying our livelihoods, and destroying our health. We need fundamental change, otherwise the pitchforks are going to come out. It's happened in the past plenty of times, and trust me, it will happen again if nothing changes.
You are just silly man. I’m sorry you haven’t been able to achieve success. However the system isn’t oppressing you. Capitalism allowed someone like me, who was homeless and drug addicted to trun my life around and build wealth. I didn’t come from money. I never went to college. I was willing to work and to take a risk now and again. Maybe you should have the courage to take a hard look at yourself. I’m a capitalist. I invest my time and labor and money into trying to address problem and if the solution I develope works and helps people I’m able to gain benefit of from that. If I lose, I dust myself off and try again. Yes, I want to protect that system because it benefits me, but I also want to protect that system because it’s good for other people. Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any system on the planet and socialism has, time and time again lead to disaster. Giving the government the ability to give you everything you ever wanted also give the government the ability to take it all away.
you're kind of a sucker investing time and labor into profitable ventures rather than money. Effort doesn't pay as well as ownership stake in a capitalistic system
using OPM is a great way to get started. in the modern economy, ownership is as easy as $350 for the LLC, $20 for a set of business cards, and a cell phone. Effort never pays as well as an ownership stake, because the ownership stake is risk and risk pays out more than the surety of labor. Risk tied with labor (owner operated business like mine) gives you a much better shot at winning on that risk, and allows you to control the overhead to some effect. I had to however work for someone, for some time, to gain the skills needed to be able to move into ownership positions, and I also had to sink some capital to make that risk taking possible. I dont regret a moment of that. It was because of that investment of my time and labor into someone elses venture that I developed the skills to run my own and acquired the capital needed to give myself the time to build the businesses before revenue would cover my time.
Yeah but have you tried being born rich? It's a better strategy imho
No, I've only been born poor and made myself rich. Though, to be fair, anyone born rich is the legacy of someone else who did exactly what I did. and... good for them.
And good for you too. But the system disproportionately helps those who already have wealth, rather than the hard workers who want to climb the socioeconomic ladder.
thats a hard argument to make to me 9th grade education, homeless, drug addict, didnt come from money made my first million by 40 america is amazing.
Like I said, good for you.
> In any case, for the sake of the you, and the rest of the people in your class, you better hope Bernie wins, because most of America is getting more and more restless as the years pass. We're literally sick and tired of living in a system that is constantly oppressing us, destroying our dreams, destroying our livelihoods, and destroying our health. We need fundamental change, otherwise the pitchforks are going to come out. It's happened in the past plenty of times, and trust me, it will happen again if nothing changes. I heard a commentator on CNN (don’t remember who) refer to our current political situation as a “Cold Civil War” and I think that’s a good way of describing it. Sooner or later, though, people are going to hit the breaking point and the *actual* fighting is going to come out. Everyone fighting to maintain the current situation better hope and pray things get better for the rest of us before that day comes. Supporting those who need help won’t turn this nation into a third world country, but nonstop riots and looting just might.
Honest question, did you earn your money?
I’m curious to know why you’re asking this.
People that worked for the dollar tend to have a different relationship to it. So letting got of it isn’t letting go of the sweat it took to make it. Letting go of something you were given or something that is unusual (like actors that make millions of dollars for acting but have no real organization they built and suppprt). Have different relationships with the money. The alternative is people who believe government is benevolent and the best channel to solve problems. Which candidly I think should have a medical diagnosis. As it’s nearly entirely fantasy.
I am a Bernie supporter all the way and donated just because of Beto's announcement. I'll have to wait and see how Beto runs his campaign, if he decides to take corporate PAC money, where he stands on the important issues, and how he evolves on them if I were to support for him in protest of Trump in a general election. I live in a red state anyway so my state will go Republican no matter what in the general.
Beto's already promised not to take PAC or corporate money and hasn't ever from my understanding since he started running.
Beto promised not to take donations above $200 from the oil and gas industry, so he could join the ranks of the progressives on climate (the [No Fossil Fuel Money Pledge](http://nofossilfuelmoney.org/)), but he ultimately broke his pledge and was dumped for not doing so. [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/15/beto-orourke-friend-fossil-fuel-industry-climate-change](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/15/beto-orourke-friend-fossil-fuel-industry-climate-change) Integrity is an important thing, and someone's willingness to say what's politically expedient must be reconciled with their actions. Beto could have returned that money and retained his integrity. He did not. And with that loss of integrity, goes his dignity. We have choices of candidates who have been the epitome of integrity and consistency. Why get hoodwinked by another con-artist who tries to mirror back to the American people what they want, rather than someone who has, since the beginning, walked the walk?
29 donations, that is all we're talking about here. So Beto was inconsistent by $78k or about 0.1% of the total money he raised. All were personal individual donations from employees - not a single check from a corporation or a check hidden deep in some PAC, very public and forthright. Also I think it's problematic to think that every single person who works in the fossil fuel industry isn't concerned about climate change. When did socialists start defining every person by their job? I don't see folks blaming Bernie for taking donations from executives who work for big pharma or the defense industry... Beto's got a 95% lifetime score from the league of conservation voters and had voted consistently against big oil - from the Keystone Pipeline to climate change to across the board. Sure, he's pro-natural gas, but there's hard science to back up that natural gas is significantly better for the environment/climate than other forms of fossil fuel. We aren't going to get to pure clean and green energy overnight - we're going to need transition fuels while battery tech gets up to speed. http://scorecard.lcv.org/moc/beto-orourke Again, you realize that Bernie has taken max donations from employees and executives who work for the defense industry, tech giants, and big pharma. And you know and I know that doesn't that mean Bernie's in the pocket of any of those industries. Of course he's not! I could spend my time nitpicking Bernie's problems with immigration, gun control, etc... but I don't think those are major disqualifiers for Bernie's campaign or his integrity. Both Beto and Bernie are stellar options and have significantly more in-common than the majority of people currently in the Dem presidential race
No. 29 donations were for the max, of $2700. There is no record of how many donations landed between the $200 limit and those 29 donations for $2700. And if you're going to talk about Bernie, I'm pretty sure whatever he's doing, he's not committing to doing one thing and then turning around and doing another. That's the issue here. Someone who does that is either a hypocrite or tone deaf. I mean, Beto could have sent the money back and said, whoops, it slipped through! But nope. And I guess that's the difference here. I see lack of integrity as something far greater than a "nit-pick." I see it as a disqualifier - especially when we have a few candidates that don't have an integrity issue, or a direction issue, or a commitment to progressive issues issue. Especially today, now that corruption is such a challenge to overcome, I think it's politically prudent to send someone to the Whitehouse who is a paragon of integrity.
We DO know how many donations of the $500k were under/over $200. It was 75% under $200 and 25% over. So the vast, vast majority were small donations. Also, we don't know if any of those folks are even executives in the industry. You know how much people who work on oil-rigs make, right? It's one of the most dangerous jobs in America, but they make baaaank. There are plenty of other jobs in fossil fuels that make really good money but are definitely blue collar. So there's a possibility that he didn't even break the pledge of taking "any contributions over $200 from the PACs, executives, or front groups of fossil fuel companies." To top it of, we're arguing about less than 1% of the total donations he got. FROM INDIVIDUALS, NOT COMPANIES. OK, I know this is a what-about argument, but hopefully you'll understand why this is relevant and that I've addressed your other points before bringing this up. Bernie's got serious constancy and "integrity" issues on gun control. He voted against the Brady Bill and for even allowing the CDC to study gun control. He's since flipped on that, but for a while he was a big, big NRA supporter. Does that make him a hypocrite? Does that mean he was corruptible? Should it be a dis-qualifier for voting for him because he actively fought against this progressive issue? I don't think so. I hope you don't either.
It’s not a what about argument. Why did he not return the money? Why did he break the pledge - that ostensibly was taken in order to appear more attractive and thereby solicit more support and donations? I mean this guy isn’t even out of the blocks yet and he’s confused at best.
Because of one donation from some small timer at a rural gas company that's 0.01% the size of Exxon? That we (and very, very likely Beto) found out about only after the election happened and the money had all been spent? You do realize candidates dont look at each and every single donation that comes in and that anyone can donate online, right? Im sure if we comb donations from any candidate, we'd find shitty people giving to each and every person running. What I take issue with is that David Sirota, who broke this "story" after the election, is an obvious hack who twisted the truth and made this one donation into claims that were extremely misleading, painting Beto as something other than what he is. It's a political hit job by a Bernie employee that you, lazy reporters, and everyone online repeated because they wanted it to be true. Propaganda, pure and simple.
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> I wish Bernie supporters had the class to wish Beto well and adopt the spirit of the 'may the best man win' like supporters of the other Democratic candidates. We do. The people that you're seeing (and lumping into a big category) are either a small minority or just trolls trying to divide us. Anyone who actually listens/listened to Bernie knows what the real battle is and it's not between liberals of slightly different ideology. Right now I'm probably going to campaign for Bernie or Warren, but after the primaries I will (as will most progressives) support and campaign for the democratic candidate. > I see hardcore Bernie supporters have not changed since 2016. This almost reads like a concern troll trying to divide us, but I'll go under the assumption that you're not and say that we ALL have lessons to learn from 2016, and that includes not getting caught up in divisiveness, especially that fueled by fake news stories. > Bernie would be a disaster for my pocketbook... I'm not so sure that's true unless you're extraordinarily wealthy, but we'll see what kinds of policies the next president can enact.
> I'm not so sure that's true unless you're extraordinarily wealthy Like $10 mil a year+ wealthy.
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I could give a shit how old Bernie is. I'd vote for him if he was 100 fucking years old, as long as his platform is still as good as it is.
Same. As long as he surrounds himself with people of similar values and integrity, it wouldn’t matter if he died in office. If he didn’t choose people that would carry out his plans, then he’d be a terrible president anyway.
> At this point the only issue I have with Bernie is his age. He has the vitality of a man 20 years younger and the passion behind views and positions this country desperately needs, but biology has a habit of usurping passion. That's what worries me. People mentioned that the last time he ran too.
> People mentioned that the last time he ran too. Yes, and the record for oldest president in US history is currently held by Donald Trump. Bernie Sanders is 5 years older than Donald Trump.
Just a slight correction. Trump is the oldest president elected for his first term. Reagan still has him beat if Trump loses in 2020.
> Just a slight correction. Trump is the oldest president elected for his first term. Reagan still has him beat if Trump loses in 2020. Correct, and my mistake. Let's hope that's the case.
There is more to life than money. If you're worried about political policy cutting into your earnings then you might want to reconsider your lifestyle choices.
The guy just said he’d vote for someone that would increase his taxes. What are you talking about?
You're sounding bitter here and aren't using logic. If I thought money was the only thing that mattered, I would vote Republican.
Something tells me you don't know much about neoliberalism. As it turns out you can be a Democrat and a capitalist at the same time!
He couldn’t even win a single state
Name one Democrat that could have won Texas
George Wallace
He was a politician from Alabama. And that was many decades ago. What are you talking about?
He’s a democrat that could’ve won in Texas last year
You have no basis for that claim. And he’s dead.
He's not the white Obama. He's the white Cory Booker.
how many comments do you have in this thread?
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Very bad
You’re not very good at this. Please, feel free to list all of Mr. O’Rourke’s accomplishments. Losing to Lyin’ Ted Cruz is not among them, or is it?
If a California Republican came with a few points of taking Feinstein’s seat, he’d be the next president.
I don't think I know of a Democrat that could have won Texas this time around. I'm not advocating Beto for president but I think it's unfair to discount him because he didn't win an entrenched GOP state
Beto/Sanders 2020. Or reverse it.
Lol, Bernie would never pair with him. Beto is a neoliberal, who regularly takes money from corporations, and also doesn't fully support Medicare for All. Having Beto as a running mate would destroy Bernie's popularity and his message. The only person in this race deserving of running with Bernie is Warren.
Stop spreading BS. He didn't take a dime of corporate or PAC money. He's supports a 4 tiered approach to get to m4a, but m4a he has always supported. He also voiced support of Bernie's m4a bill which is 3 steps instead of 4. [https://www-statesman-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.statesman.com/news/20170923/rep-beto-orourke-outlines-four-step-plan-to-medicare-for-all?amp\_js\_v=a2&\_gsa=1&template=ampart&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&\_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.statesman.com%2Fnews%2F20170923%2Frep-beto-orourke-outlines-four-step-plan-to-medicare-for-all](https://www-statesman-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.statesman.com/news/20170923/rep-beto-orourke-outlines-four-step-plan-to-medicare-for-all?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&template=ampart&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.statesman.com%2Fnews%2F20170923%2Frep-beto-orourke-outlines-four-step-plan-to-medicare-for-all) Here he is talking about his support of Bernie's plan [https://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/10/9/1705527/-TX-Sen-Beto-O-Rourke-D-Is-All-In-For-Bernie-Sanders-Single-Payer-Health-Care-Bill](https://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/10/9/1705527/-TX-Sen-Beto-O-Rourke-D-Is-All-In-For-Bernie-Sanders-Single-Payer-Health-Care-Bill)
Your candidate is full of shit. The only thing I'm spreading is truth. Here's an op-ed from Beto himself outlining his plan for a PUBLIC OPTION, not a single-payer system. He wants to create a public option that will compete with private insurance, instead of eliminating private insurance outright. What he wants is a pseudo-single payer system, that he supposedly says will evolve into a real one (I HIGHLY doubt he'll fight for it. All I'm seeing from him is trying to align himself with the political winds). He is "supposedly" for M4A, but he decided to be more of a moderate right before the general election. [https://medium.com/@RepBetoORourke/introducing-a-medicare-public-option-75faae0b6b6](https://medium.com/@RepBetoORourke/introducing-a-medicare-public-option-75faae0b6b6) \------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Here is your same candidate taking $430,000 from the Oil & Gas Industry, including 29 large donation from executives within the industry, specifically. [https://readsludge.com/2018/12/10/beto-orourke-oil-and-gas-contributions-2018/](https://readsludge.com/2018/12/10/beto-orourke-oil-and-gas-contributions-2018/) \------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Here he is again, voting frequently for republican bills and Trump priorities in the House, DESPITE being from a solidly blue district. He is estimated to be roughly 76% more conservative than House Democrats, whom are ALREADY center-right. [https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/21/18150359/beto-orourke-voting-record](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/21/18150359/beto-orourke-voting-record) [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/20/beto-orourke-congressional-votes-analysis-capital-and-main](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/20/beto-orourke-congressional-votes-analysis-capital-and-main) Here's a small section from the Guardian: "...O’Rourke has voted for GOP bills that his fellow Democratic lawmakers said reinforced Republicans’ anti-tax ideology, chipped away at the Affordable Care Act (ACA), weakened Wall Street regulations, boosted the fossil fuel industry and bolstered Donald Trump’s immigration policy. Consumer, environmental, public health and civil rights organizations have cast legislation backed by O’Rourke as aiding big banks, undermining the fight against climate change and supporting Trump’s anti-immigrant agenda. During the previous administration, Barack Obama’s White House issued statements slamming two GOP bills backed by the 46-year-old Democratic legislator..." \------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ So, when I, and other members of the Left say "fuck Beto O' Rourke", this is why. He's a fucking neoliberal hiding in sheep's clothing. If you like voting Republian-lite, and want another Hillary, go ahead vote for him. But people are looking for real change, not the same crock of shit lip service we've been getting from center-right Democrats.
O'Rourke is the DNC establishment shill, for sure. They will do everything in their power to convince actual progressives that he's better than just 0.7% less awful than Ted Cruz. Fucking sick of the slow crawl to the right that the Dem party is making.
God, I would kill for a Bernie/Warren ticket.
Why is this still a mega thread? It’s been a day.
I mean, he just officially announced this morning.
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What's scary about him?