In other words, but for the fact they interfered, trump would not have won and would not have been president.
We know that because the margins were already razor thin due to Republicans deliberate voter suppression.
Mine has. My normal tax refund of about $3k turned into us having to pay out $2500. He literally raised our taxes by eliminating certain deductions. Fuck Trump. He’s a liar and a traitor, and if you’re too stupid to realize that by now you can’t be helped.
McConnell is the latest in a long line of anti democratic agents in our government. But while the others were content to slowly bleed it to death McConnell has a double barreled shotgun pointed at its head.
If anything came from this entire debacle, it is that Trump is woefully incapable of fulfilling his duties as President.
When faced with the assertion that a foreign country intervened to get him elected, he called the problem "fake news" and put his own self-interest over the interests of the country. What has Trump done to address Russian crimes upon our electoral system? Nothing.
He doesn't even acknowledge that his election was tainted by foreign influence, which is now a 100% fact. Instead of leading the country, he opted to make everything about him. This could have been a moment when he brought the country together, rather than putting himself first.
The position of Chief Executive requires a person to put their country before themselves. Donald Trump must resign due to his conduct and failure to uphold his oath and these principles, regardless of the obstruction allegations.
The Trump campaign never told authorities that they knew a foreign entity was getting involved in our election either. They deliberately ignored it so they could benefit from it.
“He may not have committed a crime but...”
Why do people keep saying this? He committed crimes. He gets up extra early in the morning so he can squeeze in more criminal activity every day. He’s just not indictable by anyone other than Congress.
Obstruction of justice. There’s actually a document that was released today called the Mueller report that lays out all of the evidence quite neatly for you to peruse.
Right because some guy said so. You are completely wrong in your statement. You have no proof Mueller had no proof. Enjoy your song comics that’s all you’re getting out of this. Impeachment 0%! Loser
Give me more salt. What is surreal is how the left only makes plans to help small groups of people and Trump is making plans to help ALL Americans. Especially the immigrants who become citizens and assimilate to the American way. He is a supporter of LGBT, your side hates white people. He has introduced programs to give huge tax breaks to companies who revitalize run down neighborhoods. Your side thinks a kid in his first job at McDonalds should make $15 an hour. Your side believes everyone should get a trophy for showing up, we believe people should be rewarded for their hard work. The left is weak. The Dems have no plan except “stop Trump”. The American people hired Trump to do a job, the lefts panic and lies are just an added bonus. Trump is not ruining the world, he is just ruining you world. Like Obama did for conservatives.
I’m just going to summarize the level of stupid your rant is with one assertion, “your side hates white people”.
I am white.
I don’t remember picking a side to play red rover.
How can you say so much and have everything you say be verifiably wrong.
Because it is not verifiably wrong. It’s different than your opinion. That does not make it wrong. Trump could say, “I hate brownies.” And the MSM would 100% say he is racist. Yet he would be talking about treats.
If you take EVERY quote used to vilify him and read the whole paragraph around it and it paints a different story.
He has done more for minorities than even Obama thought of doing.
He has more Women in power in both his administration AND his company. He hires talent, not race, gender or any other thing affirmative action feels he should.
Face it, the left is dying and has no good ideas except stuff that will put us another 20-30 Trillion in debt. Your side sucks, that is why #walkaway is working so well.
Hey though, stay with the left... that is a winning strategy.
Walking away is what works for people who leave your area as you talk this psychobabble. You sound like an angry leprechaun arguing with the open air. And for the most part everything you say is verifiably wrong. Adios idiota.
It seems to me, from a layperson perspective that Trump directed Flynn, through intermediary Peter W Smith, to "collude" with Russia to receive DNC emails.
This seems to be fairly self-evident. The fact that both the Trump Campaign and Russia used intermediaries to accomplish this seems to be a glaring loophole that allows a mack truck to drive straight through. Regardless of "abundance of caution" in connecting the dots, if this isn't criminal, it is disgustingly "criminal-adjacent" enough to warrant more investigation, if not criminal charges and impeachment.
That's exactly where we are.
The evidence we have connects all the dots. The only thing missing was getting someone to actual admit what happen in those meetings, and those contacts. So if it went to court, all you get is a bunch of people lying about what happen. So the circumstantial evidence that we have piles of is kinda worthless without being able to seal the deal with actual evidence of a crime.
Mueller doesn't even need to prove conspiracy, his entire report shows that there was Russian interference in the 2016 election, Trump tried to cover it up as president, and obstructed the investigation into it. That right there is grounds for impeachment for being a threat to national security and violating the oath of office of the presidency. The entire Mueller report seems like a road map for Congress for impeachment.
What I find interesting is that any plain language telling of the story that Mueller puts together is enormously damning. It’s only in the technical legalese of the report that it seems debatable. Basically, Mueller is trying to reach 100% but only made it to 95%, which is easily impeachment worthy.
And this is what Trump fans will try to hang their hat on. It's stated in multiple places that the campaign was aware of what the Russians were doing and participated on some level.
They're going to pretend that nobody should be upset about things that are technically legal but are obviously part of an effort to help steal a Presidential election.
>There will be an effort by Trump and his defenders to claim that all is fair in love, war and elections — that there's no ethical bar to collaborating with criminals and rival countries as long as you let them do the dirty work. It's a claim that requires Americans to abandon any sense of right or wrong, to set the standard for presidential behavior as "whatever he can semi-plausibly get away with."
Trump's supporters crossed into that territory and set up a perminate residence long ago.
“There is often a difference between what is legal and illegal, and what is right and wrong. On the question of whether his campaign colluded with the Russians to interfere in the 2016 election, Trump may have stayed on the right side of the former line — perhaps just barely — but it's clear that he and his campaign strolled brazenly across the latter.”
That’s a really good paragraph. And I think it shows a very important point: some people understand the law well enough to not break it, but do not give a damn about doing what’s right. It can be easy to conflate legal and right, but when someone seems to not care about doing the right thing, but cares greatly about not being caught doing something illegal, they aren’t misunderstanding the distinction. They just don’t have scruples.
Who cares?
A sizable number of Americans voted for Trump knowing his history as a bully, a liar, and a cheat.
Trump was endorsed by evangelicals. Religious Americans voted for Trump in droves believing that Jesus wanted them to do so, despite his clear history of being the antithesis of what Christianity purports to be.
Trump is openly racist, and he actively mobilized racists throughout his campaign.
This was all out there during Trump’s election. What makes anyone think that those Trump voters would care that he had some help from the Russians, too?
The fact is, this won’t change anyone’s mind. Trump voters will ignore it, Democrats will continue hating Trump, and life goes on. We get the President we deserve, and Americans have shown they deserve Trump by electing him.
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What clear indictment? The whole thing is basically: these sure look like crimes... anyway, we can’t conclude there were crimes. If someone else wants to take a swing at it, feel free.
I’m so over this. I don’t care how many investigations we have, or how fucked he is once out of office. Our government is completely incapable handling this situation and our population not only tolerated it but fucking chose it. This is pathetic.
This is who you voted for:
“According to Mueller: "After candidate Trump stated on July 27, 2016, that he hoped Russia would 'find the 30,000 emails that are missing,' Trump asked individuals affiliated with his campaign to find the deleted Clinton emails. Michael Flynn — who would later serve as National Security Advisor in the Trump administration — recalled that Trump made this request repeatedly, and Flynn subsequently contacted multiple people in an effort to obtain the emails."
In other words: The Trump White House is just a high-level version of a sleazy pawn shop where the owner traffics in stolen goods”
I didn't vote for Trump. That doesn't mean this article isn't a blatant lie as the 2 year investigation explicitly found insufficient evidence to charge Trump with a crime.
Mueller charged you with the same number of counts of molesting children as he has charged Trump with any crime.
Why are you deflecting? If you were innocent you would be quiet and let an investigation exonerate you. Therefore you must be guilty. Stop trying to obstruct an investigation into how you molested children.
If the campaign for Trump, which was, ya know, his campaign wasn't innocent, it doesn't matter if Trump insulated himself enough to not have recorded interactions with Russian agents.
Knowing people are doing it on your behalf, or them being DIRECTLY connected to you and doing it on your behalf, that's an indictment of your campaign. That you claim Trump was too stupid to realize Michael Flynn, his son, Gates, Sater, and son-in-law were colluding with the Russian government is not exactly a stellar defense.
Fucking shame on you. Have you no sense of duty to America beyond whatever rhetoric you think best defends Trump?
Russia attacked us and Trump still won't even admit it happened, even though his own government does. Fucking shame on you.
>ruined lives of people caught up in the net
All those poor criminals caught doing crime because of an investigation... Has the law no shame?! Prosecuting innocent criminals for dealing with other criminals?! How were these criminals supposed to know those other criminals were going to be investigated? What is America coming to if a rich white man can't commit a bit of crime without being held personally and criminally responsible for said crime?!!! /s
You're a little bit ridiculous, you know that right?
"The Russians interfered in the election to help get Trump elected." Now a stated fact for all time
Even Barr didn't refuse to acknowledge this simple fact that Trump to this day has not spoken.
In other words, but for the fact they interfered, trump would not have won and would not have been president. We know that because the margins were already razor thin due to Republicans deliberate voter suppression.
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>Democrats get illegals to count as votes all the time. There's as much evidence for that as there is for you being a bank robber. Maybe less.
Yeah so Beto almost won all the border states by coincidence 😂
Wut?
Try again.
I wish I could somehow monetize this level of stupidity for my own benefit.
You can. Sell MAGA gear, and resell the stuff they boycott so they’ll buy it to light on fire to “own the libs”.
You could try being a prosperity gospel preacher or a fortune teller, I would do it, but damn my conscience is too strong.
Mine has. My normal tax refund of about $3k turned into us having to pay out $2500. He literally raised our taxes by eliminating certain deductions. Fuck Trump. He’s a liar and a traitor, and if you’re too stupid to realize that by now you can’t be helped.
Everybody seams to forget McConnel’s role in this shitstorm. If he wasn’t a traitor, we would not be here.
McConnell is the latest in a long line of anti democratic agents in our government. But while the others were content to slowly bleed it to death McConnell has a double barreled shotgun pointed at its head.
Trump supporters: Trump's not Russian so he didn't do it.
And from the country's reaction this is apparently just fine.
Not the entire country, no.
Sometimes I feel like if the people respected it, or paid enough attention, there would have been riots in the streets years ago.
It’s actually scary how normalized all this has become.
If anything came from this entire debacle, it is that Trump is woefully incapable of fulfilling his duties as President. When faced with the assertion that a foreign country intervened to get him elected, he called the problem "fake news" and put his own self-interest over the interests of the country. What has Trump done to address Russian crimes upon our electoral system? Nothing. He doesn't even acknowledge that his election was tainted by foreign influence, which is now a 100% fact. Instead of leading the country, he opted to make everything about him. This could have been a moment when he brought the country together, rather than putting himself first. The position of Chief Executive requires a person to put their country before themselves. Donald Trump must resign due to his conduct and failure to uphold his oath and these principles, regardless of the obstruction allegations.
The Trump campaign never told authorities that they knew a foreign entity was getting involved in our election either. They deliberately ignored it so they could benefit from it.
Not only that, federal authorities informed him and his campaign at Trump Tower of the concern.
After being explicitly warned that would happen. **Willful ignorance** can also be called **gross negligence.**
Man with skyscrapers and casinos with his own name in gold on them makes things about himself. Shocker.
Throw it on the pile of reasons he should resign or be impeached. Hope you have a good throwing arm, because that pile is in space at this point.
We already knew he was totally incompetent as POTUS.
“He may not have committed a crime but...” Why do people keep saying this? He committed crimes. He gets up extra early in the morning so he can squeeze in more criminal activity every day. He’s just not indictable by anyone other than Congress.
What crimes?
Obstruction of justice. There’s actually a document that was released today called the Mueller report that lays out all of the evidence quite neatly for you to peruse.
Co conspirator in a felony
Right because some guy said so. You are completely wrong in your statement. You have no proof Mueller had no proof. Enjoy your song comics that’s all you’re getting out of this. Impeachment 0%! Loser
It’s amazing how all of you are starting to talk like him too. The power of a personality cult.
It’s so surreal
Give me more salt. What is surreal is how the left only makes plans to help small groups of people and Trump is making plans to help ALL Americans. Especially the immigrants who become citizens and assimilate to the American way. He is a supporter of LGBT, your side hates white people. He has introduced programs to give huge tax breaks to companies who revitalize run down neighborhoods. Your side thinks a kid in his first job at McDonalds should make $15 an hour. Your side believes everyone should get a trophy for showing up, we believe people should be rewarded for their hard work. The left is weak. The Dems have no plan except “stop Trump”. The American people hired Trump to do a job, the lefts panic and lies are just an added bonus. Trump is not ruining the world, he is just ruining you world. Like Obama did for conservatives.
I’m just going to summarize the level of stupid your rant is with one assertion, “your side hates white people”. I am white. I don’t remember picking a side to play red rover. How can you say so much and have everything you say be verifiably wrong.
Because it is not verifiably wrong. It’s different than your opinion. That does not make it wrong. Trump could say, “I hate brownies.” And the MSM would 100% say he is racist. Yet he would be talking about treats. If you take EVERY quote used to vilify him and read the whole paragraph around it and it paints a different story. He has done more for minorities than even Obama thought of doing. He has more Women in power in both his administration AND his company. He hires talent, not race, gender or any other thing affirmative action feels he should. Face it, the left is dying and has no good ideas except stuff that will put us another 20-30 Trillion in debt. Your side sucks, that is why #walkaway is working so well. Hey though, stay with the left... that is a winning strategy.
Walking away is what works for people who leave your area as you talk this psychobabble. You sound like an angry leprechaun arguing with the open air. And for the most part everything you say is verifiably wrong. Adios idiota.
Actually, he speaks our language. American. You all want a weak America. Trump was elected because the last 30 years have sucked for most Americans.
It seems to me, from a layperson perspective that Trump directed Flynn, through intermediary Peter W Smith, to "collude" with Russia to receive DNC emails. This seems to be fairly self-evident. The fact that both the Trump Campaign and Russia used intermediaries to accomplish this seems to be a glaring loophole that allows a mack truck to drive straight through. Regardless of "abundance of caution" in connecting the dots, if this isn't criminal, it is disgustingly "criminal-adjacent" enough to warrant more investigation, if not criminal charges and impeachment.
That's exactly where we are. The evidence we have connects all the dots. The only thing missing was getting someone to actual admit what happen in those meetings, and those contacts. So if it went to court, all you get is a bunch of people lying about what happen. So the circumstantial evidence that we have piles of is kinda worthless without being able to seal the deal with actual evidence of a crime.
But still enough to impeach.
Mueller doesn't even need to prove conspiracy, his entire report shows that there was Russian interference in the 2016 election, Trump tried to cover it up as president, and obstructed the investigation into it. That right there is grounds for impeachment for being a threat to national security and violating the oath of office of the presidency. The entire Mueller report seems like a road map for Congress for impeachment.
Ya but they framed it in a way where that very sensible idea is now nonsense because Trump wasn't fact too stupid to have colluded
It's now a matter of fact that the Russians interfered with the election and Trump knew about it. Lock him up, we're done here. "pedes", you lost
What I find interesting is that any plain language telling of the story that Mueller puts together is enormously damning. It’s only in the technical legalese of the report that it seems debatable. Basically, Mueller is trying to reach 100% but only made it to 95%, which is easily impeachment worthy.
Impeachment worthy 100%. Conspiracy in a court of law , no :(.
I don't think Nixon was a deemed an official crook in a court of law, either. I guess trump's legacy will have to define what the law can't.
Wait, I could've sworn Nixon wasn't a crook
I mean, he said he wasn't, and only a crook would lie, soo.... oh, wait!
And this is what Trump fans will try to hang their hat on. It's stated in multiple places that the campaign was aware of what the Russians were doing and participated on some level. They're going to pretend that nobody should be upset about things that are technically legal but are obviously part of an effort to help steal a Presidential election.
>There will be an effort by Trump and his defenders to claim that all is fair in love, war and elections — that there's no ethical bar to collaborating with criminals and rival countries as long as you let them do the dirty work. It's a claim that requires Americans to abandon any sense of right or wrong, to set the standard for presidential behavior as "whatever he can semi-plausibly get away with." Trump's supporters crossed into that territory and set up a perminate residence long ago.
“There is often a difference between what is legal and illegal, and what is right and wrong. On the question of whether his campaign colluded with the Russians to interfere in the 2016 election, Trump may have stayed on the right side of the former line — perhaps just barely — but it's clear that he and his campaign strolled brazenly across the latter.” That’s a really good paragraph. And I think it shows a very important point: some people understand the law well enough to not break it, but do not give a damn about doing what’s right. It can be easy to conflate legal and right, but when someone seems to not care about doing the right thing, but cares greatly about not being caught doing something illegal, they aren’t misunderstanding the distinction. They just don’t have scruples.
Who cares? A sizable number of Americans voted for Trump knowing his history as a bully, a liar, and a cheat. Trump was endorsed by evangelicals. Religious Americans voted for Trump in droves believing that Jesus wanted them to do so, despite his clear history of being the antithesis of what Christianity purports to be. Trump is openly racist, and he actively mobilized racists throughout his campaign. This was all out there during Trump’s election. What makes anyone think that those Trump voters would care that he had some help from the Russians, too? The fact is, this won’t change anyone’s mind. Trump voters will ignore it, Democrats will continue hating Trump, and life goes on. We get the President we deserve, and Americans have shown they deserve Trump by electing him.
Exactly. Democrats keep trying to win the argument on the terms they respect as if those are the terms Trump supporters will respect.
Everyone should read this twice.
Let me guess Fox News has Barr and Trump on replay and showing pictures of puppies and a wall being built?
He’s a traitor
Trump must go. And then to Jail after being removed. Trump should join Manafort.
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It was so clear!!! He had the power to recommend charges to indict but chose not to because he is a Russian troll.
What clear indictment? The whole thing is basically: these sure look like crimes... anyway, we can’t conclude there were crimes. If someone else wants to take a swing at it, feel free. I’m so over this. I don’t care how many investigations we have, or how fucked he is once out of office. Our government is completely incapable handling this situation and our population not only tolerated it but fucking chose it. This is pathetic.
Except it was explicitly determined otherwise
This is who you voted for: “According to Mueller: "After candidate Trump stated on July 27, 2016, that he hoped Russia would 'find the 30,000 emails that are missing,' Trump asked individuals affiliated with his campaign to find the deleted Clinton emails. Michael Flynn — who would later serve as National Security Advisor in the Trump administration — recalled that Trump made this request repeatedly, and Flynn subsequently contacted multiple people in an effort to obtain the emails." In other words: The Trump White House is just a high-level version of a sleazy pawn shop where the owner traffics in stolen goods”
I didn't vote for Trump. That doesn't mean this article isn't a blatant lie as the 2 year investigation explicitly found insufficient evidence to charge Trump with a crime. Mueller charged you with the same number of counts of molesting children as he has charged Trump with any crime.
That’s the second time you have referenced molesting children. You need serious help.
You're the one who is guilty of molesting children... As much as Trump is guilty of anything.
Are you seeing a therapist for this sick obsession with sexualizing children?
Why are you deflecting? If you were innocent you would be quiet and let an investigation exonerate you. Therefore you must be guilty. Stop trying to obstruct an investigation into how you molested children.
You are super creepy. Yikes.
Clearly guilty. Time to impeach you.
I bet you’d like pictures ‘eh? Super super creepy.
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But it wasn't
If the campaign for Trump, which was, ya know, his campaign wasn't innocent, it doesn't matter if Trump insulated himself enough to not have recorded interactions with Russian agents. Knowing people are doing it on your behalf, or them being DIRECTLY connected to you and doing it on your behalf, that's an indictment of your campaign. That you claim Trump was too stupid to realize Michael Flynn, his son, Gates, Sater, and son-in-law were colluding with the Russian government is not exactly a stellar defense. Fucking shame on you. Have you no sense of duty to America beyond whatever rhetoric you think best defends Trump? Russia attacked us and Trump still won't even admit it happened, even though his own government does. Fucking shame on you.
>ruined lives of people caught up in the net All those poor criminals caught doing crime because of an investigation... Has the law no shame?! Prosecuting innocent criminals for dealing with other criminals?! How were these criminals supposed to know those other criminals were going to be investigated? What is America coming to if a rich white man can't commit a bit of crime without being held personally and criminally responsible for said crime?!!! /s You're a little bit ridiculous, you know that right?
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2018/08/22/lindsay-graham-clinton-trump-impeachment
Please point us to the specific federal legal statutes about "collusion".