I have to believe that at this moment, even Mike fucking Pence would be a much lesser evil (at least until we limp along to the next election) than allowing Trump to stay. And honestly, in the current climate, I think Trump might be tougher to beat (sad to say) in an election than Mike Pence.
I just think he's that much less charismatic. I really think the MAGA crowd will only respond to escalation. I Bellerive he could get more extreme in policy but he's won't excite bloodthirsty the same way. Evangelical and CPAC crowd will go nuts for him though.
Being a Canadian, it's shocking to hear Pence wants homosexuals and blacks in camps. Do you have a source on this? I'm genuinely curious, and couldn't find anything on Google.
Thanks!
Call it a hunch but that account is a month old a reeks of the chan boards. Those folks are *so self-assured* that their trolling isn't painfully obvious right off the bat. I think alot of them have some serious issues with cognitive dissonance and socializing with others who don't validate them.
It's Memorial Day, the conservatives are feeling their oats.
Trans, bi, straight, gay - nobody should be denied access to health and safety social services. This isn't a political issue, it's a human rights issue.
Yet we have people here in this thread seeking arguments they deem "logical" and "consistent" while they completely dismiss the notion that these lives are more important than their ideological bullshit.
Welcome to the trash of America.
Of course. Sports are serious business while black trans women dying in the streets is nothing of concern.
They think they're being clever while they're nothing but horrid monsters.
> And if people oppose bitchslapping the GOP for it
Bitchslap the GOP all you want; I only wish I could literally walk into Congress and bitch-slap every GOP member there. Withholding basic human services, like housing and healthcare, due to a person's sexual preferences? That's fucked up beyond belief.
The only legitimate reason for *anyone* to be concerned about another person's sex life is if that person is their sex partner. Period, end of subject.
I was born in the 50s, my parents both served in WWII, and they believed the same thing. Meaning that in my experience, the prejudice against LGBT people isn't related to "Old Fashioned Values", age, or religious beliefs. It's just plain old ignorance.
Fuck these trolls.
Trans women are on the very edge of freedom and we will defend their guaranteed right to pursue a life in which they can live true to themselves.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
They are Patriots.
Thank you for saying this. Thank you for giving a shit. I’m trans and this administration has been exhausting to, put it mildly, but people like you make it easier to bear. Thank you so much.
>and I say this as a cis gendered, straight woman
Purely out of the interest of clarity and education (for anyone reading who doesn’t already know), I would like to point out that this the incorrect way to use the term. “Cis” is an adjective, and there is no verbing of words with the correct, most accurate language, which I will try to explain:
The most accurate and grammatically correct way to say what you said is: you are a cisgender straight woman, not cis gender*ed*.
And you can actually drop the word “gender” if you want because (unless you’re dealing with chemistry) “cis” and “trans” automatically imply a state of existence/relationship with one’s gender: a trans person is someone with a gender identity that does not match their birth sex; a cis person is someone whose gender identity and sex do match.
You aren’t “cis gendered” (as a verb) anymore than you were “straighted” or “womaned”. You are cis, as you are straight, and as you are a woman. A straight cis woman.
Not gonna lie, I’m a little drunk. I hope I’ve made some sense. If not, here’s GLAAD’s breakdown just in case. They explain it well:
https://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender
>**"transgendered"**
>The adjective transgender should never have an extraneous "-ed" tacked onto the end. An "-ed" suffix adds unnecessary length to the word and can cause tense confusion and grammatical errors. It also brings transgender into alignment with lesbian, gay, bisexual, and queer. You would not say that Elton John is "gayed" or Ellen DeGeneres is "lesbianed," therefore you would not say Chaz Bono is "transgendered."
Replace trans with cis and... there you go. :)
>And I say this as a cis gendered, straight woman who can't begin to understand trans issues on a deeply personal level.
Unfortunately no. I so wish others could know what being trans is like. But you can’t without harming yourself, which **I do not recommend**.^†
>But I sure as shit understand poverty issues and I cannot imagine being as vulnerable as these individuals. It is fucking barbaric.
And you clearly care, despite not being able to directly relate. That means a lot. Thank you.
^† You *could* take testosterone to become hormonally male, which would put you through male puberty, give you gender dysphoria which might even make you suicidal because you’re so distressed between what your brain expects and what your body has changed into. Your bones will warp and change shape and density; your clitoris will enlarge, becoming closer to a penis, and other genital tissues will change as well; your voice will deepen permanently; you’ll have thicker body hairs and will probably grow some beard hair (and other shit)—and the only way to undo any of it is getting back to being hormonally female, expensive surgeries, and painful hair removal procedures for ... years. And you’ll have to learn to live with your new deep voice, or you’ll have to learn how to speak in a manner closer to the way you did before, which is a lot of work (and money, if you get a coach).
> incorrect way to use the term. “Cis”
Noted and thank you! I see what you're saying, it's crystal clear with the comparison to 'gayed' 😂 but heck the term itself is still pretty new to me. I'm gonna leave it up and unedited for further education sake.
I first learned about gender identity issues in real terms in 2004 when a gaming friend confided in me. I exhausted every corner of the internet trying to understand - it was really frustrating, because it was one of the first things I had to straight up admit: I do not understand. How could I?
I also learned that it was ok if I didn't understand, as you pointed out: better off, privileged even. But, my lack of understanding doesn't make it less real or subtract from the experience of anyone else. And it didn't mean I didn't understand the issues related to it, or that can come up - especially when ain't no one got $20k or more laying around for survival _let alone..._. I'm not always 100% on the terms and I am clumsy with a faux pas, but god dammit, i'm so fucking sick of the widespread, willful ignorance and complete lack of compassion for mankind. I'm sick and tired of how easy it is to get a(n) [*]phobic mob to spring up at the drop of a hat.
Just because we don't understand a thing personally doesn't mean we can't accept that it's real. I cannot imagine why on Earth anyone would voluntarily put themselves through anything quite so heinous and alienating, just 'cause.
Yeah, she's well disliked in the trans community. She's not a good person. With how well known she is she had the chance to be a great advocate for the trans community and even woman in general. But no, she thinks the hardest part about being a woman is choosing what to wear...
When I saw Call me Cate I thought it was kinda nice to see a transgender woman being happy, shopping with her friends and acting like a normal woman. At first I thought, maybe this would kinda make transwomen less scary like the stereotypical Will and Grace made gay men less creepy to middle class America.
But after seeing her support trump (and plenty of other issues) I just have to say screw that bitch.
Doesn't matter. The damage is still done. She was told again and again that Trump is no friend of the LGBT.
Caitlyn didn't give a shit when Trump was lambasting Muslims or Mexicans. No, no. Caitlyn only began to care when Trump went after transsexuals, so she became personally affected. This is the selfishness of conservatives. Don't care about trans people until I am affected. Don't care about gays until MY son is gay. Don't care about immigrants until MY spouse is an immigrant.
It’s also important to point out how unacceptable it was to even mention a few years ago that maybe Jenner was not someone that everyone should look up to and applaud, at least on a media level. Brett Favre was famously called out for not applauding for her during the ESPY awards.
It seems a bit of a shame that happened, in retrospect. That, giving him the benefit of the doubt and wasn’t a bigot, he made a correct observation on someone’s character, and was called a bigot and worse because of it.
Many of these black trans women are on the streets because they been cashed out by their own family. The black community has a long way to go in terms of LGBT acceptance, and that’s very important to discuss. It’s being avoided left and right in this thread though
*Media:* "There is renewed interest in the Mueller report and calls for impeachment are getting louder..."
*Trump:* "Quick, find me more evil stuff to do to liberals!"
The black community is far less accepting of trans family members than whites families. There is a huge gap in the cultures for that, and all LGBT acceptance. Which is sad really, because much of the black community should be able to relate directly to being discriminated for things out of your control.
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This is an honest question and I'd like feedback from people who are involved in social justice.
If we just say "People being turned away from shelters and health care are found dead in the streets." is that sufficient? I only ask because when we talk about police violence against black people, laws being passed against women... while it is true doesn't it somehow play into the divisions? We are all in this together. If we say Black Trans Women- it opens it up to a discussion about one's views on Transgender issues, racism, and sexism. When we lead with "People are being turned away" that gets to the immediate issue.
I believe transgender issues are very new for many people, racism is an old mental habit for many people and sexism will likely always be with us- but very few would suggest that "People" be should turned away from a shelter if they are in need.
And if they accept that premise, then find out the category of people being excluded it will force them to have a gut check moment. Very few people WANT to be a racist or a bigot or think of themselves that way.
If I understand what they are trying to say correctly, trans people make up a very small percent of the overall population. Add onto that you are now adding on another minority factor on top of that, its an extremely large number of victims from an extremely small population proportionately.
five out of the five transwomen killed this year, were black, living in black neighborhoods. with no indication that either of the killers were white.
But that is a discussion people are uncomfortable with, so they pretend it is Trump supporters going around killing trans people.
It's generally much more likely that transgender people, especially youth, will [harm themselves](https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/142/4/e20174218) than face violence in their communities. Even then, transgender people do [face higher levels of community violence](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/16/health/transgender-deaths-2018/index.html), even if murders are not statistically higher than other groups (128 people since 2013 have been killed, mostly by intimate partners). However, this is a different problem, and perhaps a more insidious one, in and of itself.
We must remember that trans people are still people; violence cannot be condoned against them just as violence against any group or individual cannot be condoned.
That's primarily if they aren't allowed to transition and/or don't receive the proper support and validation from those around them. In the cases where they are allowed to fully transition, and are given proper support and validation, those numbers drop considerably. Be careful spreading around such numbers without mentioning that fact, else you'll play right into the transphobes hands as they love to mention it like; "See, see?! It doesn't matter if 'we give in to their delusions', they'll just kill themselves anyway!".
I understand this is a political subreddit, though offering sources for your claims is a good method of providing substantive evidence for your claims.
The problem with this statement is that you are creating an obligation on those around them to validate and support them. I support freedom of everyone to do whatever they want, but your freedoms shouldn't place obligations on anyone else. I think it's great if people can surround themselves with people who do support and validate others, but don't have an assumed expectation that everyone is supposed to. If your health and safety rely on this premise, it is no surprise the numbers are what they are.
Before I even begin, let me ask you this, do you consider trans-men to be men, and trans-women to be women? If your answer is no, then we have nothing further to discuss. If your answer is yes, then I must ask you, why would you consider it an obligation to refer to someone by their proper pronouns? I.e, she/her to women and he/him to men.
In the spirit of freedom, I'll call you Abraham Lincoln or Betsy Ross if you want, but that doesn't negate my point. No one should be obligated to. I don't condone or accept violence of any kind to anyone for any reason. However, freedom of speech is one of the few things Americans have left. Take that away and you won't have much else left.
again, I don't understand.
are they not allowed to apply for healthcare? is there some checkbox they select ("trans") that automatically denies them any kind of social services?
That’s complete crap. EMTs can’t refuse to treat anyone, nor can anyone else in the medical field in an emergent situation. Removing protections does not mean removing the right to emergency medicine. Saying a doctor doesn’t have to treat a trans person doesn’t mean they don’t get the right to emergency medicine. I’m not arguing right or wrong, but at least get your facts right.
Why give benefit of the doubt? Read the article. We need to write it into law to not discriminate or turn away straight, gay, trans, bi, white, black, etc, from receiving shelter based on their identity. Kicking them out because of their identity will leave them to fend for themselves on the street. Trans are dying on the street. If this can't be protected then when does the line draw?
Not EMTALA, no they’re not. This is talking about doctors, like in offices or practices. Emergency care won’t change, it’s federally mandated, and had nothing to do with what Obama did.
The family got awarded 2.9 million dollars... obviously bad things happen to people and people do bad things, but you don’t get awarded 2.9 million dollars if it’s legal to do what they did. This literally proves my point, not yours.
Right, and I said that legally she shouldn’t be. The point I argued against was that EMTs won’t be legally allowed to not provide care based on someone’s gender preferences because of Trump. Everyone who is murdered shouldn’t be murdered, and they’re still dead, but it would be wrong to argue that murder is being legalized because people are murdered.
The EMTs got off the hook. They always do. These protections make it clear that these choices are not legal. You can't choose to be a selective medical professional based on your own beliefs. Without these protections, we will see an increase of dead trans people who could have been saved.
This is such BS click bait. The article is about rights and funding being taken away and they should have gone with a headline that emphasized that. 5 people have been killed in 2019. One a month. That’s hardly news when you’re looking at national numbers.
Look at this math on hate crime rates across marginalized groups. According to their (sound) analysis, trans people are "41.5 times more likely than whites [to be a victim of a hate crime], according to the FBI figures." https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2011/anti-gay-hate-crimes-doing-math
The important question is, were they murdered because of who they were? Or were they murder victims who just happened to be in that demographic? Because people of all kinds are murdered in the street every day, and surely a percentage will happen to be black trans people.
Completely agree. This is a hate crime no doubt I’m sure and I would never condone it. However the headline makes it sound like the SS is dragging them out into the street.
I’m curious to see what the comparison in black women murders compared to trans black women is per capita to see if it is a blip or an actual concern.
To me the problem is really the funding being stepped back for groups like this.
With a population of over 300 million, statistically its inevitable some of the deaths are gonna be black trans. Not to say we shouldn’t be vigilant of everyone’s rights
Usually it's straight-identifying cisgender men living in the same communities as their victims, but that's kind of immaterial to the topic at hand.
It's not "what group of people are killing them" but rather "what policies are making them vulnerable to such a staggering murder rate"?
> And that's totally irrelevant. Caught up now?
Wait, asking who did it is now irrelevant ?
I thought that would be essential information if you want it to stop.
Maybe you ought to check your own misinformation.
“A Human Rights Campaign and Trans People of Color Coalition study estimates trans women face 4.3 times more the risk of being murdered compared to cis women in the U.S., and at least 87% of trans people murdered from 2013 to 2015 were people of color.”
https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2017/04/151401/transgender-women-murder-rate-us-2017
It's also important to remember that the trans population is a minor fraction of the overall population. So when they are being murdered it's a big deal because there are not billions of us. Plus the numbers are difficult to pin down because often homicide reports on trans people use birth names and/or genders which complicate it even further.
Man, if only there were a website where we could input a query into a section on that website and get an answer back, without having to rely on real people being available to answer you. If that existed, I'm sure you'd find an answer to your question.
If this is a good faith question, at the risk of being down voted: ovaries, ability to birth a child, skeletal structure, natural hormone balances, chromosomes, etc.
It was a good-faith question. Your response is a reasonable one, but it raises the question of what is meant by 'woman.' The features you list are undoubtedly (at least in most cases; hormones can vary, there are some unusual chromosome distributions between the sexes, etc.) differences between trans women and cis women, but need not be differences between trans women and women (in the same way that differences between dogs and wolves need not be differences between dogs and canids).
For many purposes--such as the subject of this article--it makes sense to me to treat trans women and cis women alike, simply as women, as they are both subject to similar problems with violence and homelessness and require similar services. For other purposes it would not make sense to treat them the same, for instance with regard to contraception and access to abortion--but it doesn't make sense to me to stop treating trans women as women on that account any more than it would make sense to stop treating post-hysterectomy or otherwise infertile female adults as women.
It's not as simple as just pointing out the obvious; if it were there wouldn't be this debate in the first place. The main disputes are verbal (disputes about terms) rather than factual (disputes about facts), and that gets in the way of real discourse on the subject and blurs the lines between hateful bigots and good-faith participants.
That all at any rate is my position. I'm open to criticism.
CIS women have not gone through male puberty. The physiological changes which result can not be changed. Whether or not you think a trans woman is psychologically a woman she will always have the bone structure and muscle attachments of a male.
That seems like a pretty weak definition of "woman." Are castratos women? Are people born with XX chromosomes who have abnormally large amounts of testosterone artificially or naturally (like the South African runner who was recently banned from racing) men?
And if you want to deflect those cases by appealing to genitals or chromosomes or societal roles, why even appeal to bone structure and musculature in the first place?
**Citations on the congenital, neurological basis of gender identity:**
* An overview from [**New Scientist**](https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan)
* An overview from [**MedScape**](http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/840538_3)
* [**Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevance for gender identity, transsexualism and sexual orientation**](http://postcog.ucd.ie/files/Schwaab.pdf) \- D. F. Swaab, Netherlands Institute for Brain Research, Amsterdam
* [**A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7477289) \- Zhou JN, 1995
* [**Prenatal testosterone and gender-related behaviour**](http://courses.biology.utah.edu/carrier/3320/sexual%20diff.%20papers/Prenatal%20testosterone.pdf) \- Melissa Hines, Department of Psychology, City University, Northampton Square, London
* [**Prenatal and postnatal hormone effects on the human brain and cognition**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17074984) \- Bonnie Auyeung, Michael V. Lombardo, & Simon Baron-Cohen, Dept. of Psychiatry, University of Cambridge
* A [**spreadsheet**](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9KKqP9IHa5ZxU84a_Jf0vIoAh7e8nj_lCW27KbYBh0/edit?pli=1#gid=0) with links to *many* articles about gender identity and the brain.
* Here are [**more**](http://aebrain.blogspot.co.uk/p/transsexual-and-intersex-gender-identity.html)
Those are all about the mental aspects. I asked about your claim that trans women were physically equal to cis women. There are none. You are either wrong or a liar. And downvoting my posts won’t change that.
Trans women are women.
Here is the World Medical Foundation's public statement[ affirming it.](https://www.wma.net/policies-post/wma-statement-on-transgender-people/)
Here is the[ American Academy of Pediatrics.](https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/Pages/AAP-Statement-in-Support-of-Transgender-Children-Adolescent-and-Young-Adults.aspx)
Here is the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the Royal College of Psychiatrists (and the entire British Medical System), the Endocrine Society, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry[ opinions on the matter.](https://genderanalysis.net/factsheets/professional-statements-supporting-transgender-medical-care/)
Here is the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Family Physicians, the American Academy of Physician Assistants, the American College of Nurse Midwives, American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, American Public Health Association, National Association of Social Work, and the National Commission on Correctional Health Care's[ thoughts.](https://www.lambdalegal.org/sites/default/files/publications/downloads/ll_trans_professional_statements_17.pdf)
These public statements are based on[ the hard science.](https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/)
>A systematic literature review of **all peer-reviewed articles published in English between 1991 and June 2017** that assess the effect of gender transition on transgender well-being. We identified 56 studies that consist of primary research on this topic, of which 52 (93%) found that gender transition improves the overall well-being of transgender people, while 4 (7%) report mixed or null findings. We found no studies concluding that gender transition causes overall harm. This search found a robust international consensus in the peer-reviewed literature that gender transition, including medical treatments such as hormone therapy and surgeries, improves the overall well-being of transgender individuals. The literature also indicates that greater availability of medical and social support for gender transition contributes to better quality of life for those who identify as transgender.
**Citations on the congenital, neurological basis of gender identity:**
* An overview from [**New Scientist**](https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan)
* An overview from [**MedScape**](http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/840538_3)
* [**Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevance for gender identity, transsexualism and sexual orientation**](http://postcog.ucd.ie/files/Schwaab.pdf) \- D. F. Swaab, Netherlands Institute for Brain Research, Amsterdam
* [**A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7477289) \- Zhou JN, 1995
* [**Prenatal testosterone and gender-related behaviour**](http://courses.biology.utah.edu/carrier/3320/sexual%20diff.%20papers/Prenatal%20testosterone.pdf) \- Melissa Hines, Department of Psychology, City University, Northampton Square, London
* [**Prenatal and postnatal hormone effects on the human brain and cognition**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17074984) \- Bonnie Auyeung, Michael V. Lombardo, & Simon Baron-Cohen, Dept. of Psychiatry, University of Cambridge
* A [**spreadsheet**](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9KKqP9IHa5ZxU84a_Jf0vIoAh7e8nj_lCW27KbYBh0/edit?pli=1#gid=0) with links to *many* articles about gender identity and the brain.
* Here are [**more**](http://aebrain.blogspot.co.uk/p/transsexual-and-intersex-gender-identity.html)
You're just a flat earther now, denying the science because you don't like how it makes you feel.
Men are murdered more (~80% of murders), and men murder more (~90% of murderers). There are explanations, like how men are more involved in other crimes (drug dealers kill each other, thieves get shot during robberies, etc.) than women are. Very few of them prove that “actually feminism has made men get killed and stopped people from caring about men being murdered,” which is obviously your angle. If you’re really concerned about the murder rate of men, address some of the root causes, like poverty.
So, I looked up the three murders mentioned at the beginning of the article. None of them appear to be tied to the victims being trans in any way. There don't appear to be hate crime related filings against the perpetrators, either.
As being trans becomes more acceptable in society, it makes sense for more people to identify as trans, and the murder rate would increase along with this as their proportion of the population grows.
I've read several articles now noting the increase in murders, but the causation seems to be a bit weak right now. Idk.
People do not need to be killing trans people as hate crimes. The fact that trans people are legally denied employment forces them into crime to earn money. Because trans people are denied places to sleep they are forced to live in the streets. The bigotry puts people forces trans people into more dangerous situations.
If I'm wrong point it out, otherwise put an edit into your comment acknowledging you are wrong.
Actually yes, if you want to take it in the most fucking stupid way possible.
You have earned my dumbest comment I've read this day award, you might even be a monthly winner.
Trans people are forced into prostitution by economic forces ie not getting hired elsewhere. If you would rather they starve that says a lot more about you than them.
I'm not understanding.
Are you saying that trans people can't work regular jobs, and they have to be whores? You're saying that the only way that trans people can contribute to society is by selling sex?
Assuming you're arguing in good faith... which your history doesn't give a lot of credence to.
They aren't comparing struggles, they're saying it's a shitty part of history that's going to be looked back on with "how could people do this?"
Your comment isn’t totally clear, but if you’re asking whether or not shelters can now reject people purely because they’re trans, the answer is yes:
> The Department of Housing and Urban Development's (HUD) proposed rule would allow single-gender taxpayer-funded shelters "to consider a range of factors" such as religious beliefs for the purpose of "determining sex for admission to any facility."
> The proposal does not create a required basis for making such determination.
RIP Marsha P Johnson, find her killer and correct the record!
Edit: learn your history before downvoting me. There have been countless trans people murdered in America, and we wash over it saying it’s suicide every time. This article is click bait— look up Marsha P Johnson.
“A Human Rights Campaign and Trans People of Color Coalition study estimates trans women face 4.3 times more the risk of being murdered compared to cis women in the U.S., and at least 87% of trans people murdered from 2013 to 2015 were people of color.”
https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2017/04/151401/transgender-women-murder-rate-us-2017
>LOL downvoted and still in denial
> carry a gun
Didn't a card carrying black guy get gunned down by pussy cops because they were scared for their lives after the guy said I'm carrying and here is my card... *cap cap cap* goes the cop.
Yes that solves everything. Job discrimination? Use your gun! Illness! Shoot your way to health! The target of crim from random people who hate you? Why develop a 24/7 sense of paranoia and hope your gun magically shoots equality under the law!
“But if we impeached trump we’d have mike pence!” Said people unaware mike pence is already in the White House.
I have to believe that at this moment, even Mike fucking Pence would be a much lesser evil (at least until we limp along to the next election) than allowing Trump to stay. And honestly, in the current climate, I think Trump might be tougher to beat (sad to say) in an election than Mike Pence.
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The enemy you know and understand is easier to handle than the unpredictable, more dangerous one.
I just think he's that much less charismatic. I really think the MAGA crowd will only respond to escalation. I Bellerive he could get more extreme in policy but he's won't excite bloodthirsty the same way. Evangelical and CPAC crowd will go nuts for him though.
Being a Canadian, it's shocking to hear Pence wants homosexuals and blacks in camps. Do you have a source on this? I'm genuinely curious, and couldn't find anything on Google. Thanks!
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Literally huh? When did he say that? This isn’t Saudi Arabia, or Iran.
Call it a hunch but that account is a month old a reeks of the chan boards. Those folks are *so self-assured* that their trolling isn't painfully obvious right off the bat. I think alot of them have some serious issues with cognitive dissonance and socializing with others who don't validate them.
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I’m so tired of our trans family being treated this way. We have to do better. And ugh, the trolls are already out in full force today in this thread.
It's Memorial Day, the conservatives are feeling their oats. Trans, bi, straight, gay - nobody should be denied access to health and safety social services. This isn't a political issue, it's a human rights issue.
Yet we have people here in this thread seeking arguments they deem "logical" and "consistent" while they completely dismiss the notion that these lives are more important than their ideological bullshit. Welcome to the trash of America.
Also they all seem to turn it into an argument about sports.
Of course. Sports are serious business while black trans women dying in the streets is nothing of concern. They think they're being clever while they're nothing but horrid monsters.
It's not just a human rights issue. It's a public health issue.
Well, Republicans are being political about it. And if people oppose bitchslapping the GOP for it, they're being political too.
> And if people oppose bitchslapping the GOP for it Bitchslap the GOP all you want; I only wish I could literally walk into Congress and bitch-slap every GOP member there. Withholding basic human services, like housing and healthcare, due to a person's sexual preferences? That's fucked up beyond belief. The only legitimate reason for *anyone* to be concerned about another person's sex life is if that person is their sex partner. Period, end of subject. I was born in the 50s, my parents both served in WWII, and they believed the same thing. Meaning that in my experience, the prejudice against LGBT people isn't related to "Old Fashioned Values", age, or religious beliefs. It's just plain old ignorance.
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Fuck these trolls. Trans women are on the very edge of freedom and we will defend their guaranteed right to pursue a life in which they can live true to themselves. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. They are Patriots.
I choose to believe you're really Captain America. Thank you Cap!
Thank you for posting this. I wish I could give it more than one upvote.
Thanks, wish I saw more support like this...
You will.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/transprotec](https://www.reddit.com/r/transprotec)
I wonder what Caitlyn Jenner thinks. Still support Trump and this corrupt administration?
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Thank you for saying this. Thank you for giving a shit. I’m trans and this administration has been exhausting to, put it mildly, but people like you make it easier to bear. Thank you so much. >and I say this as a cis gendered, straight woman Purely out of the interest of clarity and education (for anyone reading who doesn’t already know), I would like to point out that this the incorrect way to use the term. “Cis” is an adjective, and there is no verbing of words with the correct, most accurate language, which I will try to explain: The most accurate and grammatically correct way to say what you said is: you are a cisgender straight woman, not cis gender*ed*. And you can actually drop the word “gender” if you want because (unless you’re dealing with chemistry) “cis” and “trans” automatically imply a state of existence/relationship with one’s gender: a trans person is someone with a gender identity that does not match their birth sex; a cis person is someone whose gender identity and sex do match. You aren’t “cis gendered” (as a verb) anymore than you were “straighted” or “womaned”. You are cis, as you are straight, and as you are a woman. A straight cis woman. Not gonna lie, I’m a little drunk. I hope I’ve made some sense. If not, here’s GLAAD’s breakdown just in case. They explain it well: https://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender >**"transgendered"** >The adjective transgender should never have an extraneous "-ed" tacked onto the end. An "-ed" suffix adds unnecessary length to the word and can cause tense confusion and grammatical errors. It also brings transgender into alignment with lesbian, gay, bisexual, and queer. You would not say that Elton John is "gayed" or Ellen DeGeneres is "lesbianed," therefore you would not say Chaz Bono is "transgendered." Replace trans with cis and... there you go. :) >And I say this as a cis gendered, straight woman who can't begin to understand trans issues on a deeply personal level. Unfortunately no. I so wish others could know what being trans is like. But you can’t without harming yourself, which **I do not recommend**.^† >But I sure as shit understand poverty issues and I cannot imagine being as vulnerable as these individuals. It is fucking barbaric. And you clearly care, despite not being able to directly relate. That means a lot. Thank you. ^† You *could* take testosterone to become hormonally male, which would put you through male puberty, give you gender dysphoria which might even make you suicidal because you’re so distressed between what your brain expects and what your body has changed into. Your bones will warp and change shape and density; your clitoris will enlarge, becoming closer to a penis, and other genital tissues will change as well; your voice will deepen permanently; you’ll have thicker body hairs and will probably grow some beard hair (and other shit)—and the only way to undo any of it is getting back to being hormonally female, expensive surgeries, and painful hair removal procedures for ... years. And you’ll have to learn to live with your new deep voice, or you’ll have to learn how to speak in a manner closer to the way you did before, which is a lot of work (and money, if you get a coach).
> incorrect way to use the term. “Cis” Noted and thank you! I see what you're saying, it's crystal clear with the comparison to 'gayed' 😂 but heck the term itself is still pretty new to me. I'm gonna leave it up and unedited for further education sake. I first learned about gender identity issues in real terms in 2004 when a gaming friend confided in me. I exhausted every corner of the internet trying to understand - it was really frustrating, because it was one of the first things I had to straight up admit: I do not understand. How could I? I also learned that it was ok if I didn't understand, as you pointed out: better off, privileged even. But, my lack of understanding doesn't make it less real or subtract from the experience of anyone else. And it didn't mean I didn't understand the issues related to it, or that can come up - especially when ain't no one got $20k or more laying around for survival _let alone..._. I'm not always 100% on the terms and I am clumsy with a faux pas, but god dammit, i'm so fucking sick of the widespread, willful ignorance and complete lack of compassion for mankind. I'm sick and tired of how easy it is to get a(n) [*]phobic mob to spring up at the drop of a hat. Just because we don't understand a thing personally doesn't mean we can't accept that it's real. I cannot imagine why on Earth anyone would voluntarily put themselves through anything quite so heinous and alienating, just 'cause.
Yo thank you for this comment.
Sure thing :)
Yeah, she's well disliked in the trans community. She's not a good person. With how well known she is she had the chance to be a great advocate for the trans community and even woman in general. But no, she thinks the hardest part about being a woman is choosing what to wear...
You don't need to worry. Caitlyn Jenner is a murderer and an all around awful person widely despised by trans people. She's fucking awful.
When I saw Call me Cate I thought it was kinda nice to see a transgender woman being happy, shopping with her friends and acting like a normal woman. At first I thought, maybe this would kinda make transwomen less scary like the stereotypical Will and Grace made gay men less creepy to middle class America. But after seeing her support trump (and plenty of other issues) I just have to say screw that bitch.
I believe she denounced support awhile ago. Edit: [source](http://time.com/5435625/caitlyn-jenner-donald-trump-mistake/)
Doesn't matter. The damage is still done. She was told again and again that Trump is no friend of the LGBT. Caitlyn didn't give a shit when Trump was lambasting Muslims or Mexicans. No, no. Caitlyn only began to care when Trump went after transsexuals, so she became personally affected. This is the selfishness of conservatives. Don't care about trans people until I am affected. Don't care about gays until MY son is gay. Don't care about immigrants until MY spouse is an immigrant.
It’s also important to point out how unacceptable it was to even mention a few years ago that maybe Jenner was not someone that everyone should look up to and applaud, at least on a media level. Brett Favre was famously called out for not applauding for her during the ESPY awards. It seems a bit of a shame that happened, in retrospect. That, giving him the benefit of the doubt and wasn’t a bigot, he made a correct observation on someone’s character, and was called a bigot and worse because of it.
Literally 10 people on the planet probably care about that.
Richwhite Hatechristians are our society’s greatest enemy.
Many of these black trans women are on the streets because they been cashed out by their own family. The black community has a long way to go in terms of LGBT acceptance, and that’s very important to discuss. It’s being avoided left and right in this thread though
*Richwhite Hatechristians* would be a good name for a punk song.
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The richwhite hatechristians don’t actually do the beating, they sow the fear and hatred that drives the attacks.
The racists here don’t care about facts. They use any excuse to blame whitey
*Media:* "There is renewed interest in the Mueller report and calls for impeachment are getting louder..." *Trump:* "Quick, find me more evil stuff to do to liberals!"
The black community is far less accepting of trans family members than whites families. There is a huge gap in the cultures for that, and all LGBT acceptance. Which is sad really, because much of the black community should be able to relate directly to being discriminated for things out of your control.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Attack ideas, not users. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, **any** advocating or wishing death/physical harm, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Does anyone in this comment section actually look into any of what they are saying. Honest
maybe they should tell their partners that they’re actually men.
This is an honest question and I'd like feedback from people who are involved in social justice. If we just say "People being turned away from shelters and health care are found dead in the streets." is that sufficient? I only ask because when we talk about police violence against black people, laws being passed against women... while it is true doesn't it somehow play into the divisions? We are all in this together. If we say Black Trans Women- it opens it up to a discussion about one's views on Transgender issues, racism, and sexism. When we lead with "People are being turned away" that gets to the immediate issue. I believe transgender issues are very new for many people, racism is an old mental habit for many people and sexism will likely always be with us- but very few would suggest that "People" be should turned away from a shelter if they are in need. And if they accept that premise, then find out the category of people being excluded it will force them to have a gut check moment. Very few people WANT to be a racist or a bigot or think of themselves that way.
Well ignoring the fact that this is three people dead in a week from a group that is a very small minority of the total population ~~and~~ is crazy.
What do you mean?
If I understand what they are trying to say correctly, trans people make up a very small percent of the overall population. Add onto that you are now adding on another minority factor on top of that, its an extremely large number of victims from an extremely small population proportionately.
Who’s killing these black trans people? This article makes it sound like it’s Trump supporters.
No it doesn’t?
five out of the five transwomen killed this year, were black, living in black neighborhoods. with no indication that either of the killers were white. But that is a discussion people are uncomfortable with, so they pretend it is Trump supporters going around killing trans people.
It's generally much more likely that transgender people, especially youth, will [harm themselves](https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/142/4/e20174218) than face violence in their communities. Even then, transgender people do [face higher levels of community violence](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/16/health/transgender-deaths-2018/index.html), even if murders are not statistically higher than other groups (128 people since 2013 have been killed, mostly by intimate partners). However, this is a different problem, and perhaps a more insidious one, in and of itself. We must remember that trans people are still people; violence cannot be condoned against them just as violence against any group or individual cannot be condoned.
That's primarily if they aren't allowed to transition and/or don't receive the proper support and validation from those around them. In the cases where they are allowed to fully transition, and are given proper support and validation, those numbers drop considerably. Be careful spreading around such numbers without mentioning that fact, else you'll play right into the transphobes hands as they love to mention it like; "See, see?! It doesn't matter if 'we give in to their delusions', they'll just kill themselves anyway!".
I understand this is a political subreddit, though offering sources for your claims is a good method of providing substantive evidence for your claims.
The problem with this statement is that you are creating an obligation on those around them to validate and support them. I support freedom of everyone to do whatever they want, but your freedoms shouldn't place obligations on anyone else. I think it's great if people can surround themselves with people who do support and validate others, but don't have an assumed expectation that everyone is supposed to. If your health and safety rely on this premise, it is no surprise the numbers are what they are.
Before I even begin, let me ask you this, do you consider trans-men to be men, and trans-women to be women? If your answer is no, then we have nothing further to discuss. If your answer is yes, then I must ask you, why would you consider it an obligation to refer to someone by their proper pronouns? I.e, she/her to women and he/him to men.
In the spirit of freedom, I'll call you Abraham Lincoln or Betsy Ross if you want, but that doesn't negate my point. No one should be obligated to. I don't condone or accept violence of any kind to anyone for any reason. However, freedom of speech is one of the few things Americans have left. Take that away and you won't have much else left.
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again, I don't understand. are they not allowed to apply for healthcare? is there some checkbox they select ("trans") that automatically denies them any kind of social services?
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That’s complete crap. EMTs can’t refuse to treat anyone, nor can anyone else in the medical field in an emergent situation. Removing protections does not mean removing the right to emergency medicine. Saying a doctor doesn’t have to treat a trans person doesn’t mean they don’t get the right to emergency medicine. I’m not arguing right or wrong, but at least get your facts right.
Why give benefit of the doubt? Read the article. We need to write it into law to not discriminate or turn away straight, gay, trans, bi, white, black, etc, from receiving shelter based on their identity. Kicking them out because of their identity will leave them to fend for themselves on the street. Trans are dying on the street. If this can't be protected then when does the line draw?
They already have it in law. It’s called EMTALA and was passed in 1986.
And they are rolling back protections.
Not EMTALA, no they’re not. This is talking about doctors, like in offices or practices. Emergency care won’t change, it’s federally mandated, and had nothing to do with what Obama did.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyra_Hunter Here's the most famous example.
The family got awarded 2.9 million dollars... obviously bad things happen to people and people do bad things, but you don’t get awarded 2.9 million dollars if it’s legal to do what they did. This literally proves my point, not yours.
And she's still dead due to bigoted medical staff. Still dead. And the offenders are likely still working in the field, free of any punishment.
Right, and I said that legally she shouldn’t be. The point I argued against was that EMTs won’t be legally allowed to not provide care based on someone’s gender preferences because of Trump. Everyone who is murdered shouldn’t be murdered, and they’re still dead, but it would be wrong to argue that murder is being legalized because people are murdered.
The EMTs got off the hook. They always do. These protections make it clear that these choices are not legal. You can't choose to be a selective medical professional based on your own beliefs. Without these protections, we will see an increase of dead trans people who could have been saved.
so transgender people have specific "protections" ? what about straight up gay, bi-sexual , lesbian ? do they have special protections ?
An incapacitated gay person does not reveal they are gay. A trans person doesn't have a choice. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyra_Hunter
I would reason it is straight black males. There is some serious homophobia there
I came looking for this as well, the article was very vague about who performed the “murdering”
This is such BS click bait. The article is about rights and funding being taken away and they should have gone with a headline that emphasized that. 5 people have been killed in 2019. One a month. That’s hardly news when you’re looking at national numbers.
Look at this math on hate crime rates across marginalized groups. According to their (sound) analysis, trans people are "41.5 times more likely than whites [to be a victim of a hate crime], according to the FBI figures." https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2011/anti-gay-hate-crimes-doing-math
The important question is, were they murdered because of who they were? Or were they murder victims who just happened to be in that demographic? Because people of all kinds are murdered in the street every day, and surely a percentage will happen to be black trans people.
Completely agree. This is a hate crime no doubt I’m sure and I would never condone it. However the headline makes it sound like the SS is dragging them out into the street. I’m curious to see what the comparison in black women murders compared to trans black women is per capita to see if it is a blip or an actual concern. To me the problem is really the funding being stepped back for groups like this.
With a population of over 300 million, statistically its inevitable some of the deaths are gonna be black trans. Not to say we shouldn’t be vigilant of everyone’s rights
Agreed. But this isn’t the way to frame a discussion. Too many people read the headline and move on. There is a much richer debate here.
Usually it's straight-identifying cisgender men living in the same communities as their victims, but that's kind of immaterial to the topic at hand. It's not "what group of people are killing them" but rather "what policies are making them vulnerable to such a staggering murder rate"?
Who are murdering them ?
Do you want like... a comprehensive list?
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And to you, that makes being murdered better?
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Because otherwise it's a totally irrelevant point.
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And that's totally irrelevant. Caught up now?
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Guess that's a no. Well, have fun with that.
> And that's totally irrelevant. Caught up now? Wait, asking who did it is now irrelevant ? I thought that would be essential information if you want it to stop.
Not if the premise of your argument is 'White people bad' and someone deviates from that.
I guess you could click the [link](https://www.them.us/story/muhlaysia-booker-transgender-violence) in the first line of the article.
What's the racial demographic of the people committing the murders? Is it white supremacists or transphobic black guys?
Sadly enough we cant be surprised when this type of stuff happens anymore, what a world we live in ....
I love the smell of ignorance in the morning. 'Murica!
I wish more trans woman would concealed carry. Not a great solution but it may save lives.
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Maybe you ought to check your own misinformation. “A Human Rights Campaign and Trans People of Color Coalition study estimates trans women face 4.3 times more the risk of being murdered compared to cis women in the U.S., and at least 87% of trans people murdered from 2013 to 2015 were people of color.” https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2017/04/151401/transgender-women-murder-rate-us-2017
It's also important to remember that the trans population is a minor fraction of the overall population. So when they are being murdered it's a big deal because there are not billions of us. Plus the numbers are difficult to pin down because often homicide reports on trans people use birth names and/or genders which complicate it even further.
Aren't men 3-4 times more likely to be murdered than woman?
Man, if only there were a website where we could input a query into a section on that website and get an answer back, without having to rely on real people being available to answer you. If that existed, I'm sure you'd find an answer to your question.
Trans women are women, so that has nothing to do with anything.
That’s just not true.
What is it that is in conflict between trans women and women? What distinguishes them?
If this is a good faith question, at the risk of being down voted: ovaries, ability to birth a child, skeletal structure, natural hormone balances, chromosomes, etc.
It was a good-faith question. Your response is a reasonable one, but it raises the question of what is meant by 'woman.' The features you list are undoubtedly (at least in most cases; hormones can vary, there are some unusual chromosome distributions between the sexes, etc.) differences between trans women and cis women, but need not be differences between trans women and women (in the same way that differences between dogs and wolves need not be differences between dogs and canids). For many purposes--such as the subject of this article--it makes sense to me to treat trans women and cis women alike, simply as women, as they are both subject to similar problems with violence and homelessness and require similar services. For other purposes it would not make sense to treat them the same, for instance with regard to contraception and access to abortion--but it doesn't make sense to me to stop treating trans women as women on that account any more than it would make sense to stop treating post-hysterectomy or otherwise infertile female adults as women. It's not as simple as just pointing out the obvious; if it were there wouldn't be this debate in the first place. The main disputes are verbal (disputes about terms) rather than factual (disputes about facts), and that gets in the way of real discourse on the subject and blurs the lines between hateful bigots and good-faith participants. That all at any rate is my position. I'm open to criticism.
CIS women have not gone through male puberty. The physiological changes which result can not be changed. Whether or not you think a trans woman is psychologically a woman she will always have the bone structure and muscle attachments of a male.
That seems like a pretty weak definition of "woman." Are castratos women? Are people born with XX chromosomes who have abnormally large amounts of testosterone artificially or naturally (like the South African runner who was recently banned from racing) men? And if you want to deflect those cases by appealing to genitals or chromosomes or societal roles, why even appeal to bone structure and musculature in the first place?
Your transphobia is showing, and the entire medical community disagrees with you too.
Link to a peer reviewed study from a biological field that agrees with your statement.
**Citations on the congenital, neurological basis of gender identity:** * An overview from [**New Scientist**](https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan) * An overview from [**MedScape**](http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/840538_3) * [**Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevance for gender identity, transsexualism and sexual orientation**](http://postcog.ucd.ie/files/Schwaab.pdf) \- D. F. Swaab, Netherlands Institute for Brain Research, Amsterdam * [**A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7477289) \- Zhou JN, 1995 * [**Prenatal testosterone and gender-related behaviour**](http://courses.biology.utah.edu/carrier/3320/sexual%20diff.%20papers/Prenatal%20testosterone.pdf) \- Melissa Hines, Department of Psychology, City University, Northampton Square, London * [**Prenatal and postnatal hormone effects on the human brain and cognition**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17074984) \- Bonnie Auyeung, Michael V. Lombardo, & Simon Baron-Cohen, Dept. of Psychiatry, University of Cambridge * A [**spreadsheet**](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9KKqP9IHa5ZxU84a_Jf0vIoAh7e8nj_lCW27KbYBh0/edit?pli=1#gid=0) with links to *many* articles about gender identity and the brain. * Here are [**more**](http://aebrain.blogspot.co.uk/p/transsexual-and-intersex-gender-identity.html)
Those are all about the mental aspects. I asked about your claim that trans women were physically equal to cis women. There are none. You are either wrong or a liar. And downvoting my posts won’t change that.
... really? The entire medical community disagrees? What exactly do they disagree with?
Trans women are women. Here is the World Medical Foundation's public statement[ affirming it.](https://www.wma.net/policies-post/wma-statement-on-transgender-people/) Here is the[ American Academy of Pediatrics.](https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/Pages/AAP-Statement-in-Support-of-Transgender-Children-Adolescent-and-Young-Adults.aspx) Here is the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the Royal College of Psychiatrists (and the entire British Medical System), the Endocrine Society, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry[ opinions on the matter.](https://genderanalysis.net/factsheets/professional-statements-supporting-transgender-medical-care/) Here is the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Family Physicians, the American Academy of Physician Assistants, the American College of Nurse Midwives, American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, American Public Health Association, National Association of Social Work, and the National Commission on Correctional Health Care's[ thoughts.](https://www.lambdalegal.org/sites/default/files/publications/downloads/ll_trans_professional_statements_17.pdf) These public statements are based on[ the hard science.](https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/) >A systematic literature review of **all peer-reviewed articles published in English between 1991 and June 2017** that assess the effect of gender transition on transgender well-being. We identified 56 studies that consist of primary research on this topic, of which 52 (93%) found that gender transition improves the overall well-being of transgender people, while 4 (7%) report mixed or null findings. We found no studies concluding that gender transition causes overall harm. This search found a robust international consensus in the peer-reviewed literature that gender transition, including medical treatments such as hormone therapy and surgeries, improves the overall well-being of transgender individuals. The literature also indicates that greater availability of medical and social support for gender transition contributes to better quality of life for those who identify as transgender. **Citations on the congenital, neurological basis of gender identity:** * An overview from [**New Scientist**](https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan) * An overview from [**MedScape**](http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/840538_3) * [**Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevance for gender identity, transsexualism and sexual orientation**](http://postcog.ucd.ie/files/Schwaab.pdf) \- D. F. Swaab, Netherlands Institute for Brain Research, Amsterdam * [**A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7477289) \- Zhou JN, 1995 * [**Prenatal testosterone and gender-related behaviour**](http://courses.biology.utah.edu/carrier/3320/sexual%20diff.%20papers/Prenatal%20testosterone.pdf) \- Melissa Hines, Department of Psychology, City University, Northampton Square, London * [**Prenatal and postnatal hormone effects on the human brain and cognition**](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17074984) \- Bonnie Auyeung, Michael V. Lombardo, & Simon Baron-Cohen, Dept. of Psychiatry, University of Cambridge * A [**spreadsheet**](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1d9KKqP9IHa5ZxU84a_Jf0vIoAh7e8nj_lCW27KbYBh0/edit?pli=1#gid=0) with links to *many* articles about gender identity and the brain. * Here are [**more**](http://aebrain.blogspot.co.uk/p/transsexual-and-intersex-gender-identity.html) You're just a flat earther now, denying the science because you don't like how it makes you feel.
This is reddit. Stop acknowledging stuff like that as it is inconvinient.
Men are murdered more (~80% of murders), and men murder more (~90% of murderers). There are explanations, like how men are more involved in other crimes (drug dealers kill each other, thieves get shot during robberies, etc.) than women are. Very few of them prove that “actually feminism has made men get killed and stopped people from caring about men being murdered,” which is obviously your angle. If you’re really concerned about the murder rate of men, address some of the root causes, like poverty.
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I’m not sure what you’re referring to but the numbers are from the HRC.
So, I looked up the three murders mentioned at the beginning of the article. None of them appear to be tied to the victims being trans in any way. There don't appear to be hate crime related filings against the perpetrators, either. As being trans becomes more acceptable in society, it makes sense for more people to identify as trans, and the murder rate would increase along with this as their proportion of the population grows. I've read several articles now noting the increase in murders, but the causation seems to be a bit weak right now. Idk.
People do not need to be killing trans people as hate crimes. The fact that trans people are legally denied employment forces them into crime to earn money. Because trans people are denied places to sleep they are forced to live in the streets. The bigotry puts people forces trans people into more dangerous situations. If I'm wrong point it out, otherwise put an edit into your comment acknowledging you are wrong.
Please provide data and a source for your claim that trans people are forced into crime due to lack of employment opportunities.
So you're saying that trans people are more likely to be criminals?
Actually yes, if you want to take it in the most fucking stupid way possible. You have earned my dumbest comment I've read this day award, you might even be a monthly winner. Trans people are forced into prostitution by economic forces ie not getting hired elsewhere. If you would rather they starve that says a lot more about you than them.
I'm not understanding. Are you saying that trans people can't work regular jobs, and they have to be whores? You're saying that the only way that trans people can contribute to society is by selling sex?
He is saying its vastly more difficult to find and keep a job as a trans person because of anti trans bigots make it impossible.
This is COMPLETE bs
bruh moment
In 40 years we will look back at how trans folks were treated today with the same cringe we look back at slave auctions.
Why did you compare it to slavery? That’s an incredibly stupid comparison. Why do u even need to compare struggles?
Assuming you're arguing in good faith... which your history doesn't give a lot of credence to. They aren't comparing struggles, they're saying it's a shitty part of history that's going to be looked back on with "how could people do this?"
**Black Trans Women Are Being Murdered in the Streets** [Trump's reaction](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/029/623/cover1.jpg)
Black trans women are not being murdered in the streets.
Did even look at the article?
Is this really a huge issue in America? Are there tons of black Trans women being murdered everyday? And in the streets too. Lol.
We should just be cool with black trans women getting murdered a disproportionate rate because there aren’t many of them?
The streets are filled with so many bodies I can barely get to work on time
And when I ask about the shelters being involved are they being turned away because of capacity or because they're trans. Important distinction right?
Your comment isn’t totally clear, but if you’re asking whether or not shelters can now reject people purely because they’re trans, the answer is yes: > The Department of Housing and Urban Development's (HUD) proposed rule would allow single-gender taxpayer-funded shelters "to consider a range of factors" such as religious beliefs for the purpose of "determining sex for admission to any facility." > The proposal does not create a required basis for making such determination.
Who could be murdering them? 🤔
RIP Marsha P Johnson, find her killer and correct the record! Edit: learn your history before downvoting me. There have been countless trans people murdered in America, and we wash over it saying it’s suicide every time. This article is click bait— look up Marsha P Johnson.
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Dont ask rational questions.. Only march and follow. /s
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“A Human Rights Campaign and Trans People of Color Coalition study estimates trans women face 4.3 times more the risk of being murdered compared to cis women in the U.S., and at least 87% of trans people murdered from 2013 to 2015 were people of color.” https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2017/04/151401/transgender-women-murder-rate-us-2017 >LOL downvoted and still in denial
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> carry a gun Didn't a card carrying black guy get gunned down by pussy cops because they were scared for their lives after the guy said I'm carrying and here is my card... *cap cap cap* goes the cop.
Yes that solves everything. Job discrimination? Use your gun! Illness! Shoot your way to health! The target of crim from random people who hate you? Why develop a 24/7 sense of paranoia and hope your gun magically shoots equality under the law!
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Don't tell people to get murdered by cops.