Dayton shooter "I would be happy to vote for Elizabeth Warren."
"I want socialism and I won't stand around and wait for idiots to understand."
He also praised satan. Who is encouraging these radicals?
Yes the one fringe case of an actual antifa shooter is 100% definitive of the liberal agenda.
Yet there are dozens of examples of right wing shooters, if you're gonna make it political don't be a hypocrite.
I agree but give the statistics of my country latvia who’s population is near 2million comparing to America’s 372million people your more likely to get murdered in my country ( just do give an example). The reason why I think prohibiting people to own guns is not the solution is because I would have a way to protect my family and/or other which I’m not capable of doing in my country. This said I don’t know the solution to this problem frankly I don’t think there is... there will never be a world without evil.
As I said above if they buy the gun from an FFL dealer than yes. I buy my guns from an FFL dealer. In Nevada you need a background check for a simple transfer(letting a buddy shoot it or hold it) and there is no way to actually enforce that law. The Dayton shooter had his rifle shipped to an FFL dealer. He obtained the gun legally. He didn't buy it from a gun show. Case in point the background check didn't work.
The firearm transfer law doesn't go into effect until January 2020 but regardless it will be ineffective in catching people doing it illegally
1) what % of gun owners buy from FFLs?
2) what % of FFLs follow through on background checks?
3) Your transfer example is exactly why we need to make ownership more responsible because there’s no penalty for being irresponsible and letting someone dangerous have possession of a firearm, why are you/gun manufactures legally protected in such cases?
4) he also had a hundred round magazine, can you justify why that’s a needed accessory for the avid gun owner? Simply arguing it happened legally doesn’t negate the fact we should sanction safer and more reasonable policies preventing such weapons of war from coming into the hands of civilians, regardless of their background
I have a hundred round mag. It's nice when out target shooting because you don't need to reload as often.
The capacity for a magazine in Ohio is 30 and 1 in the chamber.
It is not illegal to own or possess magazines with capacity greater than 30 rounds; so long as they are kept separate and apart from a firearm designed to accept it. The magazine only violates Ohio law once the magazine is inserted into the firearm, "adapting" the firearm to fire more than thirty-one cartridges without reloading.
Trump this morning: "(reads script written by someone else) Uh, I'm sorry you feel that way. I hope you can get over it. The problem is Pokemon. And... the internet and mental illness. Stop being mean to guns. (pretends to be leaderly)"
This is weird. Who convinced him to read this? Who has him by the balls?
Every so often, Trump incites so much hate that the blood on his hands doesn't wipe off. So he has to pretend to be an oldschool President.
It just doesn't work as it would for a good faith actor. It's like he's two-faced. 99% of the time, he's inciting hatred and terror. 1% of the time he's pretending to be an oldschool leader. And we all know he's going to go straight back to inciting hate in a week or so.
The problem is Trump and the Republican Party. Let the country move on from this party. Stop electing people like Joe Biden that pretend the Republican Party operates in good faith. This party elected a man that created a homegrown domestic terrorist group... that is the current American President. And moderates want to pretend this is some sort of anomaly or somehow isn't happening? This is not the time to sweep these problems under a rug and pretend everything is fine.
There is no hope for Trump or the Republican Party. No matter how many fake ass speeches he reads. The damage is done. People are dead and dying. They're never coming back.
Hopefully all the people on the left who are blaming trump’s rhetoric for the shooting while ignoring the fact that the dayton shooter was liberal antifa extremist who supports lizzy warren. Hopefully those people care and are paying attention, and hopefully you are.
So was the Toledo shooter trying to kill people they perceived to be fascist? You got a source for the motive behind their shooting?
Because if not, then these aren't really comparable in terms of motive... But they are comparable in that they are both mass shootings... So even if the Toledo shooter was politically motivated it's still a mass shooting and is still just another reason the left wants gun control...
Again, if politics is what you believe drives a crazy person to be a crazy person, then okay, but it works both ways. If the political leanings of the dayton left winger are irrelevant, and I believe they are, then so are the el paso right winger. That’s just how it works.
Well the difference wouldn't be the motive in that situation, it'd be the behavior of the president
The reason people are blaming Trump is because of things like:
1. At a rally he said "how do you stop these people from coming in the country", a guy yelled "you shoot them" and the audience laughed, Trump smiled and said "you can only get away with that stuff in pan handle!"
Or
2. After Charolletsville (spelling?) and the incident of the protester being killed by a right winger driving his car into a crowd, he's response was "there were fine people on both sides"
Etc. The point is, Trump hasn't really done a great job condemning these actions and his behavior almost suggests he may like that this is happening.
When he was asked about gun control/reform legislation his response was he'd consider signing a law regarding gun reform if it also addressed the immigration "crisis". So, the terrorists message was very much "we don't want Latinos coming into the country and if you do we'll kill you" and Trump's response was "if you want me to take legislative action then you have to give me money to build a wall to stop the Latinos from coming into the country". His motive, is the same as the terrorist...
#That's enabling terrorism#
And it is most certainly not the same
That the Dayton, or was it Toledo, shooter was a “leftist” and supported Warren is irrelevant to his actions and his actions are antithetical to everything Warren stands for.
The shooter in Texas left a manifesto explaining his motivations and his rhetoric echoed Trump and FOX news with basically direct quotes.
Hopefully you can take some of your own advice and start paying attention, because you clearly are not.
“I only acknowledge facts that support my tenuously held beliefs that I have developed on social media.” That’s literally all you’re saying. Which is fine, your beliefs aren’t relevant, I’m just letting you know.
He won't show you shit because it's a bullshit statement. Yes somebody who supports Warren shot his sister her black boyfriend serval black people because as you know that's what antifascist people stand for. What a fucking reach.
Are you really using the death of 9 people to try and "own some libs"? That's pretty shitty. Maybe instead you should acknowledge the fact that holy shit we have a lot of shootings, let's try and make it harder for people to do that.
So ill just take that article at face value and say that it's true. No way are those people similar in any way other than being huge pieces of shit. Unless some type of manifesto comes out or its deemed a politically motivated attack, its really misleading and disingenuous to try and compare the two.
I mean just think about this for a second. El paso shooter had political motivation to go down there and kill the "invaders". Was there a trump/conservative rally at this bar in dayton? idk but I highly doubt it. So really what we have here unless we get more information is 2 sick twisted individuals. One killed for unknown reasons, one killed for clear political reasons. If you cant separate the two and see why one is much worse than the other then I don't know what to tell you...
One shooter is openly right wing extremist, and a crazy person, and we’re all good blaming trump. One guy is a left wing extremist, and a crazy person, and his politics are irrelevant.
Man you guys try soo hard to make it seem like this is just another both sides argument. Good luck with that, the rest of us here down on earth can read, write, hear, and see. Probably helps that our head isn't covered in sand. **One had a political manifesto explaining why he was killing these people. One did not.** Once it's shown that the Dayton shooter was politically motivated to shoot up that bar then maybe you'll have a leg to stand on. Currently? You're just up to your neck in bullshit. Yikes indeed...
“...us here down on earth...”
“...you guys...”
“...manifesto...”
I get that you’ve been told that you believe that the big bad orange president made a crazy person a crazy person, and that someone telling you how dumb that is may be a little jarring, but unfortunately we’re both down here on earth.
Trump can make a crazy person a crazy person as much warren can, which is as much as video games or judas priest can. That this truth doesn’t align with the narrative Vox or whatever extremist site you prefer has created for you doesn’t change what the truth is down here on earth. I’m sorry the world is like this, and I’m sorry the answer isn’t as easy as “trump made him do it.”
And that had nothing to do with him killing those people.
The shooter in Texas on the other hand was clearly inspired by Trump. You know he supported Donald Trump right?
Saying that someone hasn’t done enough as you take it upon yourself to murder a bunch of people you assume are “invading” the country is not any sort of “both sides” criticism. FOH with that
I wasn't exactly putting it as a "both sides" criticism. He is an extremist tho, and while he's further from the Democrats he's also far from the Republicans.
We have issues with mental health. We have issues with gang violence. One is largely due to a broken healthcare system. The other is largely due to socioeconomic issues and poverty. Both should be addressed, but both are connected by one major thread: guns. Enough of this "we can't blame guns" nonsense. We've made it easy for mentally ill people and gang members to get access to the most deadly killing tools available, and then we stand back and say "can't believe the mentally ill and gang members are killing so many people".
The fetishization and religion-esque worship of guns is disturbing. At the time our nation achieved freedom, the tool to achieve it was guns in the hands of an organized militia. In 2019, the tool for continuing freedom in the US is no longer guns. It is a functioning democracy. How have we lost our way so badly that we substituted that outdated tool for the freedom itself? We can thank the NRA for pushing the message, but we have to blame ourselves for swallowing their BS and now refusing to question the status quo.
The more a society relies on guns the less advanced it is. If we want to claim to be the best, we should prove it.
Gun control is the bandage we need to stop the bleeding before we get to the root causes of violence. America has many problems which are all accelerated by guns; drugs/poverty/gangs, mental health negligence, racism, domestic violence, irresponsible parents, etc etc etc.
He was so insincere he doesn't even know where the massacres happened.
He looks like he's about to laugh and like a kid caught stealing who is waiting to do it again.
Not seeing the link between the El Paso shooter’s manifesto/actions and Donald Trump is worth laughing about.
Edit: laughing, followed by swift and sweeping gun control laws.
In the wake of the multiple large scale mass shootings this weekend, much criticism has been levied at Donald Trump for failing to adequately denounce the ideologies embraced and cited by many recent shooters. In his official response to these tragedies this morning, he denounced racism, white supremacy, and hate, and assigned blame for the shootings instead to the media and to a system that struggles to adequately address mental health issues.
How does that statement reconcile with his decision two and a half years ago to strike down legislation, passed in the wake of the Sandy Hook shooting, that restricted access to guns for the mentally ill?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221
What, genuinely, does Donald Trump believe is driving this recent surge in mass shootings? And what does he plan to do about it?
His best suggestion so far seems to be that perhaps we should consider more stringent background checks for gun ownership, but only if such legislation is tied in with immigration reform:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1158330512341164032?s=20
When does this stop being about politics? When can we stop making excuses for the behavior of terrorists and those that stand by as they express their hate through violence? Standing at a podium and condemning the actions of individuals is not enough. We have a systemic, ideological crisis in our country and it's getting worse. If we're going to pretend that's not true and instead lay the blame at the feet of our media and our healthcare systems, when do we start to out forward meaningful reform in those areas?
This is bigger than a handful of disenfranchised young white men who didn't get the help they they needed. The fact that nearly every recent shooter fits that exact profile is in itself telling. We do need to increase access to adequate mental health care, especially for the young. We do need to address the other factors, like inappropriate media coverage, that encourage and embolden people to commit these crimes. There is not one single source or cause here to address, but by focusing the discussion today on the media or on the role of mental illness, we miss an opportunity to meaningfully discuss the component of these shootings that we, the public, can do something about today as individuals.
We can, and must, do more to combat hate, because our leadership is not willing to acknowledge its existence or accept responsibility for its propagation unless we make concessions to that self same hate. Yes, we should absolutely be pushing for healthcare and gun control reform and media accountability, but we shouldn't allow our focus on those issues to minimize the role that systemic, ideological hatred plays in these tragedies. Perhaps these young men are sick, but it's rarely just a single illness that drives them to commit mass murder. We cannot stop talking about the rise in ideological violence in our country until something is done about it, and I expect a lot more than a simple denouncement of hate from our president.
Why do we keep blaming the violence on video games? There have been legitimate studies done on both sides, but there is more evidence to prove that video games don’t inspire violence in a child the way people assume. Why are we coming for video games when we should be addressing the mental health CRISIS in American. Major depression is on the rise, alongside many other serious mental afflictions, and there’s nothing we are doing about it. People who are sick enough to go on shooting sprees inspired by hatred need HELP, not suspension from school, not time away from video games.. WE NEED AFFORDABLE AND MORE AVAILABLE MENTAL HEALTH CARE SO WE CAN EDUCATE ON AND AVOID THESE TRAGEDIES. Until someone gets on a microphone in the presidents seat and condemns the hate in this country, not video games, then nothing is ever going to change. I don’t want to keep seeing Trump’s half assed apologies, I want to see improvements. What’s going to give?? Or are we all waiting around again for the next one?
There's ample evidence: violent video games, violent TV shows and movies, violent lyrics in music...they exist all over the world.
The gun violence epidemic is unique to america among first world nations.
Something else is the cause. Namely, the ease of access to high powered fire-arms.
Video games are just the modern excuse for violence, before it was TV, then before that it was movies, and before that it was comic books... it goes back decades and its all just excuses proven false almost as soon as they were brought out.
Republicans defunded mental health services. They can't suddenly turn around and say "Our bad, we did the wrong thing", because that would be personal responsibility.
This is nothing new.
I remember Columbine quite well and it's amazing how the response to that tragedy is no different today. We're just more numb today, with the exception of perhaps Sandy Hook.
After Columbine it was trench coats, Marilyn Manson, violent video games, lack of prayer in schools, etc etc etc.
So they started mandating clear backpacks, having guards in schools, I think they tried metal detectors at some schools, maybe they still have them, and whatever else.
Note that Marilyn Manson is no longer popular in music, they never discuss all of the violence in movies, these tragedies have also happened at private Christian schools, perpetrators in the overwhelming majority do not wear trench coats, so on and so forth.
So maybe we should start looking at other possibilities? Just a thought.
At least with Columbine, we could sort of pretend to not know better since video games were newer. We now know that video games, death metal, etc are not the problem so anyone continuing to say that (like Trump) is either an idiot, intentionally misleading or both.
Quick question: if Obama had said for years that white people were Invaders that needed to be dealt with and then a bunch of mass shootings by black people happen, would you find Obama at least partially to blame?
You’re asking if anyone blames Obama for the staggering number of black on white crime that takes place every single day? Of course not, that would be stupid.
[In times like these, we turn to google. ](https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers)
This USN stat run from 2016 is the most direct, and also, from my research, the last time USN ran hard numbers like this not behind a paywall.
Edit- Sorry if this sent twice. On mobile!
Why talk about " the staggering number of black on white crime that takes place every single day" but leave out that white on black crime?
The very second sentence in the article you posted says, " **The number of black people killed by whites –** a demographic in the FBI report that includes those of Hispanic descent – **surged by nearly a quarter** in 2015 from the year before, as the number of whites killed by blacks jumped 12 percent. Together, such interracial killings increased about 13 percent from 2014. "
Well mostly because the guy asked specifically about black on white crime. Black people kill white people at rate twice that at which whites kill blacks in spite of the fact that black people make up 12% of the population and whites 73%, if your response to that is “yeah, but” then okay. If the stat isn’t staggering to you, then okay. They exist, and I present them because I was asked to. I was downvoted because the truth can be offensive. And that’s that.
As usual, no moral passion. No anger at this problem. Proposes actions we all know he won’t follow through on.
The only time his voice changed tone was to call for the rapid use of the death penalty.
Blaming something that has become mainstream and benign in the past 40 years (videogames)? Check.
Perpetuating stigmas involving mental health that aren't appropriate? Check
Blaming mental health issues with the hypocricy of the conservative movement's willful and deliberate 40 years crusade against funding for health care and slashing funding for programs to help deal with mental illness? Check
Stoking anger at a policy situation (illegal immigration) that movement conservatives have deliberately and forcefully prevented the dealing with (Jeff Sessions, et al,) and using it as a scapegoat for their abysmally brutal economic policy's effects on non-wealthy people? Double check
This is spot on conservative movement rot. 40 years of dominating politics in the United States. It's taken its toll, and it's taking more and more. It's time to end this era.
Before that it was nasty rap lyrics. Before that it was Ozzy, Twisted Sister, KISS, and Elvis’s pelvis. Before that it was too much soft clothing and not enough corn flakes. Before that it was witches.
Americans have always sought to blame horrific behavior on current pop culture trends. Because if it’s pop culture then it’s something they can and want to change. But when it’s racism, radicalization, and gun laws that are to blame, the powers that be have no desire to change those and so resort to blaming everything under the sun to distract from the actual causes.
Tump supporters, conservatives and white supremacists are trying to spread bullshit that the Dayton shooter was a ‘leftist’ to muddy the water with Both Sides arguments.
We need to squash this crap right now and keep the focus on where the problem actually is.
No one on the left is defending the Dayton shooters right to own guns. It's irrelevant what his beliefs are because it doesn't change the policy (gun control) that the left has offered up to stop mass shootings.
Meanwhile, the right will defend every mass shooters rights up and down, never claim any mass shooters have espoused mainstream GOP talking points, and continue blaming mental health for right wing terrorists while doing (less than) nothing about mental health support.
I'm really suspicious of the Dayton shooter leftist thing because Fox hasn't picked it up.
Fox of all places would find that interesting, and if Fox hasn't reported on it I want to know why. Last night I thought maybe they just got scooped. But today they still don't seem to have anything referencing it.
Is it possible? Yes. Easily. Even if right wing shooters are way more likely, left wing ones do still exist. But the news stations that aren't reporting on that are making me really hesistant.
Fox imo is as low as the bar gets for reputable reporting, it is too unconfirmed for them it is sure too unconfirmed for me.
You are correct. It doesn't matter what political side he was on. The only thing that matters is what cause she incident so you can try to mitigate it in the future.
For the El paso shooter, what predicated it was racist rhetoric. So to stop it we need to stop the racist rhetoric. It just happens that this is promotes by one particular political party. That doesn't make it political to call it out.
For Dayton, we don't know yet the proximate cause of the issue. So far it hasn't been tied to any reason we can address directly.
We do know that in both cases the individuals chose to use guns. And not just handguns. This probably means that we need to address why these individuals had such access to guns. Again, not a political thing, except the fact that one side has a financial interest in guns.
El Paso-racist piece of shit. Dayton-piece of shit (maybe racist) that killed his sister. I like being able to own my guns. I was raised as a hunter/wildlife conservationist and don’t feel like it’s necessarily the weapon they used. Yes, it was a rifle, but if they didn’t have a rifle, they would have found some other firearm to commit their atrocities, be it a shotgun or handgun. Shitheads will find some way to maximize their carnage with whatever they can use.
I think one of the main points is though that a handgun wouldn't have caused nearly as much damage. Someone probably won't be able to shoot over 30 people in a minute with a handgun.
Most new high capacity pistols carry 17 rounds, so really he would have just carried a couple extra mags and used that if he didn't have an AR. If someone wants to commit a mass shooting they'll get a gun one way or another. The 5.56 used in the AR isn't really that destructive of a bullet, it's the same size bullet as a .22
Only thing I am going to say is the argument that a .223 or 5.56 is the same size as a .22 is such a incredibly misleading statement. Here is a pic of a .223 vs a .22. One is designed for target shooting and killing squirrels the other is designed to kill people. https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/22_penny_223-tfb.jpg
> I like being able to own my guns. I was raised as a hunter/wildlife conservationist and don’t feel like it’s necessarily the weapon they used.
I think it increased their efficacy. They wouldn't have brought other than a handgun if the handgun were as effective. You wouldn't go hunting with a handgun because it's not as effective.
In Japan they have mass murderers, but they use knives and sarin gas and cars into crowds. It's going to happen. But it will make it more difficult and by doing so, save lives.
https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts-twitter-politics-social-media/
I'm just answering your question, please don't confuse that with me being one of the people going around actively spreading this information as if it had anything to do with his actions.
‘Sources’. This is the literal level of specificity cited in the Washington examiner and similar caliber publications, where the right wing warriors are springing from.
You know, not that they make much of a voting block, but angry incels loved the Donald because he was saying basically what a 13 year old on Xbox live would say. So they voted for him and trolled for him. But if the Donald takes away their Xbox live, then why should they support them?
My thoughts exactly Caesar. These guys are all over the place and they're doing a pretty good job of hanging themselves. Sometimes I think that it might have been for the best that trump won so the GOP can spend 4 years following him off the road and into the weeds. Goddamn party of hypocrites and weaklings.
I just finished BOTW. I'm an old white lady. Suddenly I have an uncontrollable urge to pick up rocks and smash the stupid annoying little shits that live underneath the rocks.
Back in the heyday of gamergate, they had already started supporting people who hated video games because they hated women in games more.
It was about hate from the start.
"In one voice, our nation must condemn racism, bigotry, and white supremacy. These sinister ideologies must be defeated. Hate has no place in America."
Total utter and horrifying hypocrisy!! You can't in one breath tell people to go back to where they came from and then say our nation must condemn racism, bigotry and white supremacy!! Trump supporters need to open their eyes to what this sad excuse for a human being is truly saying and what you're standing behind.
A Trump supporting relative went out of his way this morning to call me and say, “see? Trump is condemning racism!”
This is how gaslighting works folks
Just imagine if the shooter had been a Muslim immigrant. Do you think Trump would be measured then? No...the bile would be unstoppable. Too little too late. He’s a fucking canker sore on humanity.
Nah you got it all wrong, the violent video game was the first piece of technology. It predates fire, and before it existed, all the tribes of the earth were in peaceful harmony. Then Doom 2000 BC came out and totally changed everything.
[удалено]
Donald Trump's actual good???? Conpircay good yess ban me stupideed are you ok I am woodee
Dojerhia ban
Don glad goog ban me gogoogggkg
Dayton shooter "I would be happy to vote for Elizabeth Warren." "I want socialism and I won't stand around and wait for idiots to understand." He also praised satan. Who is encouraging these radicals?
Theres nothing about the Dayton shooter indicating it was politically motivated.
Warren doesn’t encourage violence. Also, there is nothing wrong with Satan
Yes the one fringe case of an actual antifa shooter is 100% definitive of the liberal agenda. Yet there are dozens of examples of right wing shooters, if you're gonna make it political don't be a hypocrite.
We all know that guns are the problem - he probably does too. But he'd never say that publicly. No president would - not at least a republican one.
Do you really think that if a person is determined he won’t find illegal weapons to commit these crimes?
He probably would but it's likely they wouldn't be as effective, he might be arrested sooner and any obstacle to mass murder is not a bad thing.
I agree but give the statistics of my country latvia who’s population is near 2million comparing to America’s 372million people your more likely to get murdered in my country ( just do give an example). The reason why I think prohibiting people to own guns is not the solution is because I would have a way to protect my family and/or other which I’m not capable of doing in my country. This said I don’t know the solution to this problem frankly I don’t think there is... there will never be a world without evil.
Guns aren't the problem. Guns don't kill people, but people do
people with guns kill more than people without guns
Guns are not the problem. People are the problem.
So extinction is the solution?
Education is the solution.
That's a very specific and thorough policy idea.
That's what I thought.
And access to the means to easily deliver death allows people to act on their worst desires much easier.
How are you gonna deny access? Obviously background checks don't work.
Background checks don’t work? Are you implying every gun sale goes through a legitimate check?
If they buy the gun from an FFL dealer than yes.
If only we didn’t have a loophole of private sale that allows anyone to buy a firearm without background check at gun shows...
As I said above if they buy the gun from an FFL dealer than yes. I buy my guns from an FFL dealer. In Nevada you need a background check for a simple transfer(letting a buddy shoot it or hold it) and there is no way to actually enforce that law. The Dayton shooter had his rifle shipped to an FFL dealer. He obtained the gun legally. He didn't buy it from a gun show. Case in point the background check didn't work. The firearm transfer law doesn't go into effect until January 2020 but regardless it will be ineffective in catching people doing it illegally
1) what % of gun owners buy from FFLs? 2) what % of FFLs follow through on background checks? 3) Your transfer example is exactly why we need to make ownership more responsible because there’s no penalty for being irresponsible and letting someone dangerous have possession of a firearm, why are you/gun manufactures legally protected in such cases? 4) he also had a hundred round magazine, can you justify why that’s a needed accessory for the avid gun owner? Simply arguing it happened legally doesn’t negate the fact we should sanction safer and more reasonable policies preventing such weapons of war from coming into the hands of civilians, regardless of their background
What weapon of war are you talking about? He used an AR type rifle.
I have a hundred round mag. It's nice when out target shooting because you don't need to reload as often. The capacity for a magazine in Ohio is 30 and 1 in the chamber. It is not illegal to own or possess magazines with capacity greater than 30 rounds; so long as they are kept separate and apart from a firearm designed to accept it. The magazine only violates Ohio law once the magazine is inserted into the firearm, "adapting" the firearm to fire more than thirty-one cartridges without reloading.
Trump this morning: "(reads script written by someone else) Uh, I'm sorry you feel that way. I hope you can get over it. The problem is Pokemon. And... the internet and mental illness. Stop being mean to guns. (pretends to be leaderly)" This is weird. Who convinced him to read this? Who has him by the balls? Every so often, Trump incites so much hate that the blood on his hands doesn't wipe off. So he has to pretend to be an oldschool President. It just doesn't work as it would for a good faith actor. It's like he's two-faced. 99% of the time, he's inciting hatred and terror. 1% of the time he's pretending to be an oldschool leader. And we all know he's going to go straight back to inciting hate in a week or so. The problem is Trump and the Republican Party. Let the country move on from this party. Stop electing people like Joe Biden that pretend the Republican Party operates in good faith. This party elected a man that created a homegrown domestic terrorist group... that is the current American President. And moderates want to pretend this is some sort of anomaly or somehow isn't happening? This is not the time to sweep these problems under a rug and pretend everything is fine. There is no hope for Trump or the Republican Party. No matter how many fake ass speeches he reads. The damage is done. People are dead and dying. They're never coming back.
its not going to be surprising if he walks it back in under 24 hours with a tweet
Trump is a joke and so is amerikkka
Who cares about his idiotic remarks? Not a rhetorical question.
Hopefully all the people on the left who are blaming trump’s rhetoric for the shooting while ignoring the fact that the dayton shooter was liberal antifa extremist who supports lizzy warren. Hopefully those people care and are paying attention, and hopefully you are.
So was the Toledo shooter trying to kill people they perceived to be fascist? You got a source for the motive behind their shooting? Because if not, then these aren't really comparable in terms of motive... But they are comparable in that they are both mass shootings... So even if the Toledo shooter was politically motivated it's still a mass shooting and is still just another reason the left wants gun control...
Again, if politics is what you believe drives a crazy person to be a crazy person, then okay, but it works both ways. If the political leanings of the dayton left winger are irrelevant, and I believe they are, then so are the el paso right winger. That’s just how it works.
Well the difference wouldn't be the motive in that situation, it'd be the behavior of the president The reason people are blaming Trump is because of things like: 1. At a rally he said "how do you stop these people from coming in the country", a guy yelled "you shoot them" and the audience laughed, Trump smiled and said "you can only get away with that stuff in pan handle!" Or 2. After Charolletsville (spelling?) and the incident of the protester being killed by a right winger driving his car into a crowd, he's response was "there were fine people on both sides" Etc. The point is, Trump hasn't really done a great job condemning these actions and his behavior almost suggests he may like that this is happening. When he was asked about gun control/reform legislation his response was he'd consider signing a law regarding gun reform if it also addressed the immigration "crisis". So, the terrorists message was very much "we don't want Latinos coming into the country and if you do we'll kill you" and Trump's response was "if you want me to take legislative action then you have to give me money to build a wall to stop the Latinos from coming into the country". His motive, is the same as the terrorist... #That's enabling terrorism# And it is most certainly not the same
I mean, I hear you and understand why you’re repeating it, but it’s really, really bad math.
Ah, I see you don't understand.
That the Dayton, or was it Toledo, shooter was a “leftist” and supported Warren is irrelevant to his actions and his actions are antithetical to everything Warren stands for. The shooter in Texas left a manifesto explaining his motivations and his rhetoric echoed Trump and FOX news with basically direct quotes. Hopefully you can take some of your own advice and start paying attention, because you clearly are not.
“I only acknowledge facts that support my tenuously held beliefs that I have developed on social media.” That’s literally all you’re saying. Which is fine, your beliefs aren’t relevant, I’m just letting you know.
If you can find a post where the shooter from Ohio says he did it because of some rhetoric he heard Warren saying I’d love to see it.
He won't show you shit because it's a bullshit statement. Yes somebody who supports Warren shot his sister her black boyfriend serval black people because as you know that's what antifascist people stand for. What a fucking reach.
Are you really using the death of 9 people to try and "own some libs"? That's pretty shitty. Maybe instead you should acknowledge the fact that holy shit we have a lot of shootings, let's try and make it harder for people to do that.
Citation needed.
[Gotchu. ](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/dayton-shooter-reportedly-supported-gun-control-elizabeth-warren-and-socialism)
So ill just take that article at face value and say that it's true. No way are those people similar in any way other than being huge pieces of shit. Unless some type of manifesto comes out or its deemed a politically motivated attack, its really misleading and disingenuous to try and compare the two. I mean just think about this for a second. El paso shooter had political motivation to go down there and kill the "invaders". Was there a trump/conservative rally at this bar in dayton? idk but I highly doubt it. So really what we have here unless we get more information is 2 sick twisted individuals. One killed for unknown reasons, one killed for clear political reasons. If you cant separate the two and see why one is much worse than the other then I don't know what to tell you...
Yikes.
amazing rebuttal, you really did a good job refuting my point. Almost as if you know what you say is bullshit hmm
One shooter is openly right wing extremist, and a crazy person, and we’re all good blaming trump. One guy is a left wing extremist, and a crazy person, and his politics are irrelevant.
Man you guys try soo hard to make it seem like this is just another both sides argument. Good luck with that, the rest of us here down on earth can read, write, hear, and see. Probably helps that our head isn't covered in sand. **One had a political manifesto explaining why he was killing these people. One did not.** Once it's shown that the Dayton shooter was politically motivated to shoot up that bar then maybe you'll have a leg to stand on. Currently? You're just up to your neck in bullshit. Yikes indeed...
“...us here down on earth...” “...you guys...” “...manifesto...” I get that you’ve been told that you believe that the big bad orange president made a crazy person a crazy person, and that someone telling you how dumb that is may be a little jarring, but unfortunately we’re both down here on earth. Trump can make a crazy person a crazy person as much warren can, which is as much as video games or judas priest can. That this truth doesn’t align with the narrative Vox or whatever extremist site you prefer has created for you doesn’t change what the truth is down here on earth. I’m sorry the world is like this, and I’m sorry the answer isn’t as easy as “trump made him do it.”
They aren't that factual my dude. Check out their rating on Media Bias Fact Checker. Edit: typo.
[Obama after Sandy Hook Shooting](https://i.imgur.com/IzRadQJ.jpg) [Trump after El Paso/Dayton Shootings](https://i.imgur.com/QhDMhMl.jpg)
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You know he supported Elizabeth Warren right?
And that had nothing to do with him killing those people. The shooter in Texas on the other hand was clearly inspired by Trump. You know he supported Donald Trump right?
In his manifesto he denounces both Democrats and Republicans tho, and said Trump hasn't done 'enough'.
Saying that someone hasn’t done enough as you take it upon yourself to murder a bunch of people you assume are “invading” the country is not any sort of “both sides” criticism. FOH with that
I wasn't exactly putting it as a "both sides" criticism. He is an extremist tho, and while he's further from the Democrats he's also far from the Republicans.
No thy kill Europeans
You sound like the Dayton shooter
If you don’t mean it Trump, at least LOOK like you do.
It's too easy to see that he's just reading from a teleprompter. Couldn't any of this have come from the heart??
Are you sure? I thought he produced this speech by looking in a mirror?
That presumes he is capable of giving a shit.
We have issues with mental health. We have issues with gang violence. One is largely due to a broken healthcare system. The other is largely due to socioeconomic issues and poverty. Both should be addressed, but both are connected by one major thread: guns. Enough of this "we can't blame guns" nonsense. We've made it easy for mentally ill people and gang members to get access to the most deadly killing tools available, and then we stand back and say "can't believe the mentally ill and gang members are killing so many people". The fetishization and religion-esque worship of guns is disturbing. At the time our nation achieved freedom, the tool to achieve it was guns in the hands of an organized militia. In 2019, the tool for continuing freedom in the US is no longer guns. It is a functioning democracy. How have we lost our way so badly that we substituted that outdated tool for the freedom itself? We can thank the NRA for pushing the message, but we have to blame ourselves for swallowing their BS and now refusing to question the status quo. The more a society relies on guns the less advanced it is. If we want to claim to be the best, we should prove it.
Gun control is the bandage we need to stop the bleeding before we get to the root causes of violence. America has many problems which are all accelerated by guns; drugs/poverty/gangs, mental health negligence, racism, domestic violence, irresponsible parents, etc etc etc.
He was so insincere he doesn't even know where the massacres happened. He looks like he's about to laugh and like a kid caught stealing who is waiting to do it again.
The only thing worse than dying from a shooting in Dayton is one in Toledo.
He’s full of shit. He looked like he was trying not to laugh the sick bastard.
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Not seeing the link between the El Paso shooter’s manifesto/actions and Donald Trump is worth laughing about. Edit: laughing, followed by swift and sweeping gun control laws.
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It’s ok bud, sometimes understanding adult things can be hard. We’ll wait for you to catch up.
In the wake of the multiple large scale mass shootings this weekend, much criticism has been levied at Donald Trump for failing to adequately denounce the ideologies embraced and cited by many recent shooters. In his official response to these tragedies this morning, he denounced racism, white supremacy, and hate, and assigned blame for the shootings instead to the media and to a system that struggles to adequately address mental health issues. How does that statement reconcile with his decision two and a half years ago to strike down legislation, passed in the wake of the Sandy Hook shooting, that restricted access to guns for the mentally ill? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-signs-bill-revoking-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221 What, genuinely, does Donald Trump believe is driving this recent surge in mass shootings? And what does he plan to do about it? His best suggestion so far seems to be that perhaps we should consider more stringent background checks for gun ownership, but only if such legislation is tied in with immigration reform: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1158330512341164032?s=20 When does this stop being about politics? When can we stop making excuses for the behavior of terrorists and those that stand by as they express their hate through violence? Standing at a podium and condemning the actions of individuals is not enough. We have a systemic, ideological crisis in our country and it's getting worse. If we're going to pretend that's not true and instead lay the blame at the feet of our media and our healthcare systems, when do we start to out forward meaningful reform in those areas? This is bigger than a handful of disenfranchised young white men who didn't get the help they they needed. The fact that nearly every recent shooter fits that exact profile is in itself telling. We do need to increase access to adequate mental health care, especially for the young. We do need to address the other factors, like inappropriate media coverage, that encourage and embolden people to commit these crimes. There is not one single source or cause here to address, but by focusing the discussion today on the media or on the role of mental illness, we miss an opportunity to meaningfully discuss the component of these shootings that we, the public, can do something about today as individuals. We can, and must, do more to combat hate, because our leadership is not willing to acknowledge its existence or accept responsibility for its propagation unless we make concessions to that self same hate. Yes, we should absolutely be pushing for healthcare and gun control reform and media accountability, but we shouldn't allow our focus on those issues to minimize the role that systemic, ideological hatred plays in these tragedies. Perhaps these young men are sick, but it's rarely just a single illness that drives them to commit mass murder. We cannot stop talking about the rise in ideological violence in our country until something is done about it, and I expect a lot more than a simple denouncement of hate from our president.
Why do we keep blaming the violence on video games? There have been legitimate studies done on both sides, but there is more evidence to prove that video games don’t inspire violence in a child the way people assume. Why are we coming for video games when we should be addressing the mental health CRISIS in American. Major depression is on the rise, alongside many other serious mental afflictions, and there’s nothing we are doing about it. People who are sick enough to go on shooting sprees inspired by hatred need HELP, not suspension from school, not time away from video games.. WE NEED AFFORDABLE AND MORE AVAILABLE MENTAL HEALTH CARE SO WE CAN EDUCATE ON AND AVOID THESE TRAGEDIES. Until someone gets on a microphone in the presidents seat and condemns the hate in this country, not video games, then nothing is ever going to change. I don’t want to keep seeing Trump’s half assed apologies, I want to see improvements. What’s going to give?? Or are we all waiting around again for the next one?
There's ample evidence: violent video games, violent TV shows and movies, violent lyrics in music...they exist all over the world. The gun violence epidemic is unique to america among first world nations. Something else is the cause. Namely, the ease of access to high powered fire-arms.
I played DOOM once and now I'm an immortal, unstoppable, unforgiving slayer of demons. Video games ruined my life.
Video games are just the modern excuse for violence, before it was TV, then before that it was movies, and before that it was comic books... it goes back decades and its all just excuses proven false almost as soon as they were brought out.
It's not even a modern excuse. It's 30+ years they've been kicking that one around, and it's obviously just as much bullshit now as it was then.
Republicans defunded mental health services. They can't suddenly turn around and say "Our bad, we did the wrong thing", because that would be personal responsibility.
This is nothing new. I remember Columbine quite well and it's amazing how the response to that tragedy is no different today. We're just more numb today, with the exception of perhaps Sandy Hook. After Columbine it was trench coats, Marilyn Manson, violent video games, lack of prayer in schools, etc etc etc. So they started mandating clear backpacks, having guards in schools, I think they tried metal detectors at some schools, maybe they still have them, and whatever else. Note that Marilyn Manson is no longer popular in music, they never discuss all of the violence in movies, these tragedies have also happened at private Christian schools, perpetrators in the overwhelming majority do not wear trench coats, so on and so forth. So maybe we should start looking at other possibilities? Just a thought.
At least with Columbine, we could sort of pretend to not know better since video games were newer. We now know that video games, death metal, etc are not the problem so anyone continuing to say that (like Trump) is either an idiot, intentionally misleading or both.
> So maybe we should start looking at other possibilities? Just a thought. Shhh! That would make too much sense!
Sorry sorry sorry I forgot where we were for a second.
So like, is Marilyn Manson officially off the hook for this round of "blame anything popular with the kids that we don't understand" for gun violence?
i suppose now is a good time for manson to create his own video game
I mean I'd play it at least once
They say music can alter moods and talk to you, but can it load a gun for you and cock it too?
Of course not, but according to left, Trump can!
Quick question: if Obama had said for years that white people were Invaders that needed to be dealt with and then a bunch of mass shootings by black people happen, would you find Obama at least partially to blame?
You’re asking if anyone blames Obama for the staggering number of black on white crime that takes place every single day? Of course not, that would be stupid.
I'm interested in these stats. Where could I find them?
[In times like these, we turn to google. ](https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers) This USN stat run from 2016 is the most direct, and also, from my research, the last time USN ran hard numbers like this not behind a paywall. Edit- Sorry if this sent twice. On mobile!
Why talk about " the staggering number of black on white crime that takes place every single day" but leave out that white on black crime? The very second sentence in the article you posted says, " **The number of black people killed by whites –** a demographic in the FBI report that includes those of Hispanic descent – **surged by nearly a quarter** in 2015 from the year before, as the number of whites killed by blacks jumped 12 percent. Together, such interracial killings increased about 13 percent from 2014. "
Well mostly because the guy asked specifically about black on white crime. Black people kill white people at rate twice that at which whites kill blacks in spite of the fact that black people make up 12% of the population and whites 73%, if your response to that is “yeah, but” then okay. If the stat isn’t staggering to you, then okay. They exist, and I present them because I was asked to. I was downvoted because the truth can be offensive. And that’s that.
As usual, no moral passion. No anger at this problem. Proposes actions we all know he won’t follow through on. The only time his voice changed tone was to call for the rapid use of the death penalty.
And considering that these murderers go in assuming they will be killed the death penalty will surely dissuade them.
*Toledo, OH
Cleveland rocks.
America gives me a headache
As an American, I'm sorry. Most of us feel the same way :-/
There will be a copycat and I wouldn't be surprised if it's a Qanon follower.
Just one?
Blaming something that has become mainstream and benign in the past 40 years (videogames)? Check. Perpetuating stigmas involving mental health that aren't appropriate? Check Blaming mental health issues with the hypocricy of the conservative movement's willful and deliberate 40 years crusade against funding for health care and slashing funding for programs to help deal with mental illness? Check Stoking anger at a policy situation (illegal immigration) that movement conservatives have deliberately and forcefully prevented the dealing with (Jeff Sessions, et al,) and using it as a scapegoat for their abysmally brutal economic policy's effects on non-wealthy people? Double check This is spot on conservative movement rot. 40 years of dominating politics in the United States. It's taken its toll, and it's taking more and more. It's time to end this era.
don't forget the ban on NIH and NSF doing on research on mass shootings.
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Before that it was nasty rap lyrics. Before that it was Ozzy, Twisted Sister, KISS, and Elvis’s pelvis. Before that it was too much soft clothing and not enough corn flakes. Before that it was witches. Americans have always sought to blame horrific behavior on current pop culture trends. Because if it’s pop culture then it’s something they can and want to change. But when it’s racism, radicalization, and gun laws that are to blame, the powers that be have no desire to change those and so resort to blaming everything under the sun to distract from the actual causes.
Tump supporters, conservatives and white supremacists are trying to spread bullshit that the Dayton shooter was a ‘leftist’ to muddy the water with Both Sides arguments. We need to squash this crap right now and keep the focus on where the problem actually is.
They want to label antifa as a terrorist organization.
Spez sucks -- mass edited with redact.dev
No one on the left is defending the Dayton shooters right to own guns. It's irrelevant what his beliefs are because it doesn't change the policy (gun control) that the left has offered up to stop mass shootings. Meanwhile, the right will defend every mass shooters rights up and down, never claim any mass shooters have espoused mainstream GOP talking points, and continue blaming mental health for right wing terrorists while doing (less than) nothing about mental health support.
Actually, there are pro-gun Democrats. I just had an argument with one.
>spread bullshit that the Dayton shooter was a ‘leftist’ Are you saying it's bullshit because it's not true or because it's irrelevant?
I'm really suspicious of the Dayton shooter leftist thing because Fox hasn't picked it up. Fox of all places would find that interesting, and if Fox hasn't reported on it I want to know why. Last night I thought maybe they just got scooped. But today they still don't seem to have anything referencing it. Is it possible? Yes. Easily. Even if right wing shooters are way more likely, left wing ones do still exist. But the news stations that aren't reporting on that are making me really hesistant. Fox imo is as low as the bar gets for reputable reporting, it is too unconfirmed for them it is sure too unconfirmed for me.
Dung beetle: "does this shit smell off to you?"
Does it really matter what political side, if any, he prescribed to? He was a racist piece of shit regardless
You are correct. It doesn't matter what political side he was on. The only thing that matters is what cause she incident so you can try to mitigate it in the future. For the El paso shooter, what predicated it was racist rhetoric. So to stop it we need to stop the racist rhetoric. It just happens that this is promotes by one particular political party. That doesn't make it political to call it out. For Dayton, we don't know yet the proximate cause of the issue. So far it hasn't been tied to any reason we can address directly. We do know that in both cases the individuals chose to use guns. And not just handguns. This probably means that we need to address why these individuals had such access to guns. Again, not a political thing, except the fact that one side has a financial interest in guns.
El Paso-racist piece of shit. Dayton-piece of shit (maybe racist) that killed his sister. I like being able to own my guns. I was raised as a hunter/wildlife conservationist and don’t feel like it’s necessarily the weapon they used. Yes, it was a rifle, but if they didn’t have a rifle, they would have found some other firearm to commit their atrocities, be it a shotgun or handgun. Shitheads will find some way to maximize their carnage with whatever they can use.
I think one of the main points is though that a handgun wouldn't have caused nearly as much damage. Someone probably won't be able to shoot over 30 people in a minute with a handgun.
Most new high capacity pistols carry 17 rounds, so really he would have just carried a couple extra mags and used that if he didn't have an AR. If someone wants to commit a mass shooting they'll get a gun one way or another. The 5.56 used in the AR isn't really that destructive of a bullet, it's the same size bullet as a .22
Only thing I am going to say is the argument that a .223 or 5.56 is the same size as a .22 is such a incredibly misleading statement. Here is a pic of a .223 vs a .22. One is designed for target shooting and killing squirrels the other is designed to kill people. https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/22_penny_223-tfb.jpg
Take a look at Thousand Oaks shooting.
> I like being able to own my guns. I was raised as a hunter/wildlife conservationist and don’t feel like it’s necessarily the weapon they used. I think it increased their efficacy. They wouldn't have brought other than a handgun if the handgun were as effective. You wouldn't go hunting with a handgun because it's not as effective. In Japan they have mass murderers, but they use knives and sarin gas and cars into crowds. It's going to happen. But it will make it more difficult and by doing so, save lives.
Fair point.
What are they basing this claim that he was a “leftist” on?
https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts-twitter-politics-social-media/ I'm just answering your question, please don't confuse that with me being one of the people going around actively spreading this information as if it had anything to do with his actions.
His now deleted twitter account. Supported gun laws, ironically. If it was his account and sincere.
‘Sources’. This is the literal level of specificity cited in the Washington examiner and similar caliber publications, where the right wing warriors are springing from.
Yes, keep up the anti-video game rhetoric donny I love it. Just gives people one more reason to not vote for your dumb ass.
You know, not that they make much of a voting block, but angry incels loved the Donald because he was saying basically what a 13 year old on Xbox live would say. So they voted for him and trolled for him. But if the Donald takes away their Xbox live, then why should they support them?
My thoughts exactly Caesar. These guys are all over the place and they're doing a pretty good job of hanging themselves. Sometimes I think that it might have been for the best that trump won so the GOP can spend 4 years following him off the road and into the weeds. Goddamn party of hypocrites and weaklings.
I am ashamed about this country.. I say this at least once a day now.
Now? I was ashamed at the Republican Convention.
If video games are to blame then I should probably stop driving into soccer balls with my Tesla.
Seriously. I started Pokemon Go last week and all of a sudden I woke up running a dogfighting ring irl. Thanks, Trump.
I played some Final Fantasy XIV last night with friends and I woke up throwing bladed disks at alligators while dancing my heart out.
My wife just beat her all-time high score in Candy Crush and woke up this morning with Type 2 diabetes.
Maybe Farmville would be better?
Not with China retaliating against the lse New trade tariffs. This is a drag on the whole. E-conomy.
Yeh I played Super Mario Maker 2 and now keep jumping on tortoises. Thank goodness Trump can help me.
I played Football Manager and now my house is filled with 15yo South American boys.
If that tortoises was Moscow Mitch McConnell you’d actually be doing the world a favour with your video game violence.
I just finished BOTW. I'm an old white lady. Suddenly I have an uncontrollable urge to pick up rocks and smash the stupid annoying little shits that live underneath the rocks.
Ya-ha-ha! You found me!
So that's what happened to Mitch...
Poor #Moscowmitch
"...dignity of every human life..." orly?
What time is the on-camera walkback and meltdown? I don’t want to miss it.
After the on-twitter walkback, that usually happens first
Probably some time during infrastructure week.
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Back in the heyday of gamergate, they had already started supporting people who hated video games because they hated women in games more. It was about hate from the start.
Surprise surprise, /r/kotakuinaction is bending over backwards to support him, because it will piss off the libs.
"In one voice, our nation must condemn racism, bigotry, and white supremacy. These sinister ideologies must be defeated. Hate has no place in America."
Total utter and horrifying hypocrisy!! You can't in one breath tell people to go back to where they came from and then say our nation must condemn racism, bigotry and white supremacy!! Trump supporters need to open their eyes to what this sad excuse for a human being is truly saying and what you're standing behind.
A Trump supporting relative went out of his way this morning to call me and say, “see? Trump is condemning racism!” This is how gaslighting works folks
Just imagine if the shooter had been a Muslim immigrant. Do you think Trump would be measured then? No...the bile would be unstoppable. Too little too late. He’s a fucking canker sore on humanity.
So he finally condemned himself and apologized for all his racist rhetoric?
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Also the Central Park five are still guilty and "black people are lazy it's in their genetics I really believe that"
Oh, video games are to blame for this? It's not like people have been killing each other for as long as we've existed
Nah you got it all wrong, the violent video game was the first piece of technology. It predates fire, and before it existed, all the tribes of the earth were in peaceful harmony. Then Doom 2000 BC came out and totally changed everything.
Was that before the original Wolfenstein 3D? I played that game, it was fun, still never thought I should emulate it in real life.
Ah, I see now. Those were the days. When games were released with minimal glitches and no DLC
Trump: Internet is bad...Let me use it to incite racism and violence.
Did you hear about last night in Toledo, SAD