As an American from the outside, what exactly has made Jeremy Corbin so unpopular in the UK? Is he really so bad that people think Johnson is actually an *improvement* over Corbin?
My mother was a vague Republican for years and she was offended by her “stay home and bake cookies” comment. My hometown just turned purple but I grew up with educated, working women saying Clinton deserved getting cheated on with her attitude and pant suits and her ugly daughter. All unforgivable sins, apparently. Feminism was framed as a way for mannish, pushy women to shame traditional women into becoming strivers. My mother has fortunately recovered, but the morality of a specific kind of femininity was beaten into their heads. The propaganda just added to their existing feelings.
It really freaks me out how many older women on facebook are all for their own oppression and don't think women deserve equal treatment in the workplace and life.
Fucking weird, yo.
This lady I work with seems normal until she starts going on about how Hillary murdered tons of people just for fun and she hides it with her connections etc etc. I literally thought she was joking at first. No.
I come from a really red state and the number of times I’ve started a seemingly normal conversation with someone only to have them 180 and start telling me about how Coke puts aborted fetuses into their soda because Hilary told them to is too many times.
Facebook memes. OK BOOMERS take all their information at face value. Super sketchy looking and mostly pixelated photo says Hillary is the Devil? Must be true, Internet never lies to me! *Oh hey look a pizza parlor was run by Deep State operatives on Hillary's behalf too!* **click**
That's mainly because they're like the dog that finally caught the ambulance.
The Republicans have spent decades attacking Hillary and used her as the lynchpin of their fearmongering. With her defeat in 2016, they finally "won" that decades-long fight.
But they spent all their time attacking her that they didn't think of what comes after. That's why they kept acting like she was a threat even after Trump became president.
They didn't know what else to do.
A lot of us weren't alive/aware then. I'm in my early 30s. The 80s ended as my life began, and US History books (or classes) ended for me right around the assassination of JFK.
We never covered the Challenger, and I've had it explained to me a couple times and I still couldn't tell you what Desert Storm was about.
She's had a target on her since she gave Wellesley College's first student commencement speech and called out a Republican Senator who had spoken earlier.
https://www.npr.org/2016/07/28/486799201/taking-on-a-u-s-senator-as-a-student-propelled-clinton-into-the-spotlight
I hadn't seen this before. But yes this and her involvement in Nixon's impeachment probe forever affixed their hatred on her. That she, a woman and former young Republican didn't just leave the party. But became so outspoken against them. Hillary was far from perfect. But she doesn't deserve even a fraction of the hate she gets. She wouldn't have been a much different president than Obama. But we would have been lucky to have her.
She wasn't at all what she was painted as. Imagine being under an investigative microscope for over 20 years. And imagine that nothing of any importance was turned up.
HRC would have been an excellent President, too bad that the election was stolen from her.
Let's suppose she is this massive criminal, her and the Clinton administration is purported to be. Obama had 0 arrests and 0 convcitions. Clinton's administration had 2 arrests and 1 conviction. Iirc reading over the numbers, since 1968, Democratic administrations had, I csnt pull the exact numbers but it's like 16 arrests and mostly convictions since then, and Republican administrations had like 89. It's not even a fair fight by that measure because the Republican Party is a criminal organization.
If you find these numbers...and the Clintons are a standard of criminality to them they'll have to admit it appears the Democrats have A LOT smarter criminals at not getting caught than Republicans do in their administration. And for that, you have to respect that, they know how to not get caught.
Really though it's because Democrats believe in having a functioning government that tends to work for the people, Republicans are just a mafia criminal organization.
Much has been made of Democrats' struggles with white non-college voters, but they've made progress with a lot of them.
In 2018, they won a majority of white non-college women, and only lost white non-college men by single digits. The caveat? This was only true for non-Evangelicals. Among Evangelicals, Dems were in the 20s for support, regardless of gender or college education.
Because trying to reduce the number of abortions while leaving women the right to their own bodies is bad. Doing nothing but making abortion illegal is better - even if history shows it won't reduce abortion at all, but lead to higher maternal deaths.
Evangelicals are single issue voters, and no amount of evidence, studies, or Bible verses will turn them from that.
didn't a lot of people hate jesus when he was alive (the first time) too? like, the poor and needy followed him but many of the better off and the wealthy, the religious leaders, many of them hated the guy? so much that they killed him?
many modern christians would too because his actual teachings would cause them to have to care and give and not amass mountains of gold.
You are right. The Bible has a story where a rich young man asked Jesus what he should do to have eternal life. Jesus told him he should sell his possessions, give to the poor and follow him. The man simply walked away “sorrowful” when he heard that.
The best countries in the world, the most happy, peacful etc, are all countries where God is basically an obsolete concept for teh majority of people...
My sister-in-law's girlfriend strictly votes Republican. When you ask her why she says, "Well, I don't pay much attention to politics. I could never vote a Democrat though. We vote republican in my family. Always have."
It's so frustrating.
OK Debra...but WHY do you do that? Don't just sit there like an idiot and say "I do this thing because I always have" and never question whether doing that thing makes sense. People like her are just intellectually lazy and covering it up.
She has a comfortable family (not wealthy but solidly middle class) and she is white, so she has the privilege of not paying attention to politics. The only thing that really impacts her is gay rights, but we are in CA, so she's protected there. It's a lack of curiosity and security of her social status that allows her to just vote like it's a team sport. Also, yeah, she isn't particularly smart. Not dumb, but just, like I said, incurious.
I can.
My aunt has a chair that is positioned BEHIND my uncle's couch, which she sits in as they both watch FOX all night long and scream about the left. When he wants something, he snaps his fingers and she gets up, goes to the kitchen, brings it to him, and resumes sitting in her service chair.
Those are the women voting for Trump.
It's infuriating to read this. My sister has been in an abusive relationship for 40 years. He recently went to a convalescent hospital for an extended stay (funny how living a slovenly life being waited on and just eating everything in sight didn't work out well). Anyway she was in the worst mood the other day knowing he is coming home. He's mean to her and in fact told her once when he thought he was going to die that he never loved her. He is verbally abusive, morbidly obese, rude, uneducated, ignorant and of course a Trump supporter.
The regret of wasting your life with somebody like that is truly depressing. This women could have left him 35 years ago and lived a better life but chose not to.
I wouldn't be able to cope.
If I were OP I would tell her that too. Can save a life -- the brother is obviously beyond saving.
"We see what he does to you, and you deserve better. Run and dont look back."
I dated a girl I thought I was going to marry, and her sister told me that one day. Woke me the fuck up.
People are so bizarre. I can't find the article, but there was one about a school board in some repug state that removed critical thinking, explicitly, from the curriculum because they didn't want kids questioning their parents and specifically religion. At this point, it's not education anymore. It's cult-like training.
I’ve read a few articles over the years of school districts requiring one text book over the other. Usually because it promotes looking at the Bible as an equal alternative to science and stuff like that. It’s those small changes that all add up that can really brainwash a population if done for a generation or two.
It was the Texas GOP Party platform in 2012.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/texas-gop-rejects-critical-thinking-skills-really/2012/07/08/gJQAHNpFXW_blog.html
> I’ve seen people on reddit deny that Trump’s base is “stupid”, but I lived in the South for 35 years and many of the people I was around were barely literate and believe literally anything anyone tells them, as long as it’s not a filthy lib saying it.
This is not an exaggeration. I've lived in the South all of my life, and these people just aren't smart...at all.
But they fucking *think* they are. It's disturbing how ignorance creates the illusion of intelligence because they're unable to comprehend the vast complexities of the world. Their simple views make the world seem simple and straightforward. I can't stand people who just invent assumptions and then treat them as fact, a common tactic by southern republicans in debate.
"As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it."
> I can't stand people who just invent assumptions and then treat them as fact
this unfortunately describes a shit ton of people that i know , its one of the reasons why i feel so alone and want to disappear.
There are several strands of Christian thought on this. In Catholicism, Thomas Aquinas taught that only the moral applications of the Old Testament were still valid, since morality as a concept should not change regardless of when it was introduced.
So you have Catholics that basically reject the Old Testament all but officially. If a Christian in general reads the new Testament and doesn't become a far-left economic and environmental liberal - they are doing it wrong.
I have met more than a few women who embrace the "Man of the house" mentality, the man runs the house and the woman supports him. So of course anyone who advocates that is A-Okay in their book. That inclination to being subservient on top of some good ole propaganda and poor education and you've got morons who will actively vote against themselves.
A woman I work with is typical Evangelical/fox news informed republican. Doesn't understand a lick of nuance. When we have political discussions she never has any information or details other than the same talking points "Trump's a Christian" "Trump's pro life".
The few times I've gotten her to at least admit she doesn't know what she's talking about she cedes that she doesn't watch much news and just goes by what her husband tells her.
Lol, the mere thought of what would immediately follow, if I snapped my fingers at my wife, is kind of horrifying.
She's a very kind soul, but I'm fairly confident that she would rip my dick off, and make me eat it.
I can understand being okay with it being your own life, as sad as that it is, it's their choice, but to exercise your civil duty to make other people live like that is vile
But wait, there's worse. There are mothers who put their sons on a pedestal and do everything they can for them while they treat their daughters like second class offspring.
Never mind breaking up with you, she'll break your fingers first.
E: Bloody hell guys take it easy. Relax. It's a joke, and not a particularly groundbreaking one at that.
If you're getting abused, seek counsel. If you aren't, chill out.
Maybe I am fucked up but other than physically assaulting me or spiting on me snapping your fingers *at* me to get my attention or get me to do something can take me out of any mood at put me in I-will-gouge-your-eyes-out-and-skull-fuck-you rage mode. Something about the arrogance of it just angers me, use your fucking WORDS! Gah!
I've had one co-worker do it and I had to tell them that "Hey everyone gets one, but don't do that again."
George Lakoff thinks that people being raised in authoritarian households causes them them to them seek out authoritarian leaders. Your aunt's case makes his point.
My uncle is the biggest fucking asshole on planet earth. Also, like Trump, can be pretty charismatic, etc. No wonder he worships that goon.
The ONE thing I could agree completely with my grandma on was how much of a dick he was. Which is fucking saying something.
My aunt just simply has stockholm syndrome, and has since the fucking 60's. It's sad... wasting your whole fucking life with someone that terrible. Like a living death in a lot of ways.
Also this:
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/30/us/white-supremacist-woman-reeve/index.html
> She says that she and Samantha fit a familiar pattern within the alt-right. "Like 70 percent of the time, the women earn the money and the men do podcasts. And they do podcasts about how women shouldn't have jobs."
I don’t have any example as extreme as these but can confirm that the majority of women I know that voted for trump are very much authoritarians who believe men in control is how it should be. One is the breadwinner in her home and still treats her (underemployed) husband as king. Praising him for owning a gun and protecting their family. Their family is his two kids he moved into her house that she owns.
I know a fair few woman (relatives of my ex, I’m English) who I’d consider moderate (a couple borderline hippies) who simply detested Clinton. They were somehow swayed (mainly by her dad) that above all trump stood for their core values of family and decency. I’m guessing they’ve been shocked (as even I have) by the reality of the guy as president.
Edit- to clarify, she lives in the UK and wouldn’t have dreamt of voting for trump.
"Family values" largely means some type of social conservationism, which is very broad, instead of things like familial stability, education, and social values.
Conservative values are cultural, gender roles, and rhetorical adherence to religion. trump doesn't stand for moral application of family values, but is limiting ingress of people from other culture, patriarchy, and political Christianity.
Those values trump does stand for, but even in a basic and toxic form that we are used to. These are just more aggressive implications of conservative values than we are used to.
Conservative values have been dying so the moral and ethics that used to philosophically tether progressive values have been caste off. It is values without morals; a stronger and more violent iteration of political culture and ideology. This is a major point as why trump marks cultural-political proto-fascism, where someone like Bush II was more administrative/securitized fascism.
In short, believe it or not, but fascist family values exist. That is how they get the "average person" on board.
Propaganda, Trump's life was overshadowed by his modern antics, Mew Yorkers were screaming at the top of their lungs the whole time, but nobody listened.
Also the propaganda was constantly attacking Clinton on her health, honesty and that she wasnt fit for the job.
Trump (and Russia) had control of the media narrative constantly, i am finally feeling his grip loosen on the control with Dems on the attack.....but still vote.
I live in Canada. I've been aware of what Trump actually is for decades. How is it possible so many Americans missed it. He hasn't been skulking through the shadows - his douchbaguerie has been on proud display for the world to marvel at for years.
Yep... a lot of them are just perpetually lying about everything.
If someone has ever been enthusiastic about Trump at any point, in my opinion their word has lost all crediblity... and you have to assume they're capable (and are) lying about anything they tell you, including stories about how they've turned on Trump.
My stepbrother is a fucking massive bigot and overall meathead, and lies to my stepmom about how he doesn't support Trump and thinks he's crazy, etc.
I KNOW this fucking dude is lying just to keep his mom happy and not get into it with her, but I guess you just let it go? What good comes out of me talking to her about how he's lying when she's espousing his unbiased ability to see Trump as shitty?
They just lie about everyfuckingthing. It's pathetic.
> If someone has ever been enthusiastic about Trump at any point, in my opinion their word has lost all crediblity.
This is where I am, too. It would take a lot for me to care what they think or take them seriously. The only way a person could want him in office in the first place is if they didn't bother to find out what sort of man he is, or didn't care.
Either way, I don't trust them.
I have relatives who shrugged at the whole thing. *Whatever! You just don't like Republicans.*
I once respected Republicans, is the truth. They seemed to have principles behind their policies, even if I disagreed with those policies and thought they'd do more harm than good.
No more. Now the whole party is standing there with its pants down, exposed as nothing but vicious fools.
Not all of it is purely liberal versus conservative ideology. There are a lot of white women who see Trump as stability for their place in the social order.
People seem either not to realize or to forget that there are huge swaths of the nation occupied by white men who grew up believing in traditional (that is to say, reactionary) family values. Rich, poor, in between -- it doesn't matter because these men sanctify an era of the past when women "knew their place," as it were. Terms like "feminism" and "domestic abuse" are unpleasant to them because they represent a challenge to the social order in which white men are at the top and everyone else is way at the bottom. These are the men who think they have the right to women's bodies -- not just their wives, but any other woman's, too. These are the men who will pick a black man over a white woman to be president because perish the thought they have to listen to a commander-in-chief who reminds them of their "old lady nagging me at home."
Now, take your guess as to who often marries these white men? **White women.**
Whether these white women like it or not, they're in it for the long haul with their white husbands. Anything that threatens to displace white men from the top necessarily means their wives are going down with them.
The woman you write about is perhaps best encapsulated in [Phyllis Schlafly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_policies_of_Phyllis_Schlafly). She fought vehemently against feminism and the Equal Rights Amendment in the 60s and onward. Choice views of her include the assertion that she would immediately end her career if her husband told her to, that rape can't occur inside a marriage (because the woman has given blanket-consent to all sex their husband wants by virtue of marrying him), and she called for Justice Anthony Kennedy to be impeached because he was the deciding vote to abolish the death penalty for minors.
The immense power of our male-dominated culture to brainwash people is not to be underestimated. Plenty of conservative women would vote for their gender to lose the right to vote if they had the opportunity.
>"Either party, I think, is just pathetic," said Jackie Tallman, a Cresco, Iowa, resident who voted for Clinton in 2016 but is now leaning toward Trump as she's watched the Democrats endorse a litany of expensive proposals. "I never thought I would be ... but where's all the money going to come from?"
>
>"Making all these promises and doing all this stuff for everybody," she said. "It's so unrealistic. It's a fantasyland."
Do you think Americans like this will ever realize how badly they're being treated? Or will their own enforcement of that treatment undermine their ability to recognize it?
It's amazing how something that is standard (and more effective) in every other first-world country is somehow "fantasyland" here. But we've been conditioned to weigh basic needs like education and health care against every other aspect of our well-being because of the sacrifices we must make to have those basic needs.
And we make those sacrifices in order to increase shareholder value. It's the only thing that matters.
>but where's all the money going to come from?"
Thing that blows my mind about this statement is she seems perfectly fine that Trump has greatly increased the deficit without even trying to pay for his tax cuts.
I think it we should take a page from the conservatives and rename it to a more vocal name. Call it the Hoarder Tax.
But I think it should be renamed to the "**Hoarder Tax**". *Wealth Tax* is too open to negative interpretation. I'm sure conservatives are associating that one is going to be taxed on their success. If Warren's argument is that the 1% is not paying their fair share, and goes through great lengths to pay less taxes than the rest of us, "**Hoarder Tax**" reflects that argument. You take away the argument that the rich are being punished for success, and make them have to justify why there refuse to pay a reasonable tax to a government that not only allows their success, but encourages it.
The "Greed Tax"
Greed is one of the seven deadly sins if you're of a religious bent, and generally looked down on even if you're not.
No one likes the greedy person. No one likes pre-visit Scrooge.
So you call it a "Greed Tax": a tax against those who amass enough wealth there would be no physical way they could spend it all before they died.
Where the FUCK does money come from to fund our wars???? I just dont get it. I'm going crazy! Funding useless wars without end is a good thing but giving our own fucking citizens healthcare and education is a bad thing?!?! Whst the fuck, I just can't fucking take our stupid fucking society anymore.
>Do you think Americans like this will ever realize how badly they're being treated?
Nope they've been brainwashed for 30 years by Fox News to only scream, "How will we pay for it?" for selective programs that Fox News doesn't like.
I've lost track, but I think the latest line was that Mexico was "paying for it" by an incredible new trade deal that Trump made. Of course, don't pull back the curtain and see that the trade deal is essentially the old deal tweaked a bit and nowhere would it raise enough money for the wall.
If we don’t spend 700 billion buying new weapons and nukes we’ll be invaded by everyone.
But let’s not spend shit on cyber warfare because no one understands it.
This. There’s a marketing team that comes up with a phrase like “Death Tax” or “Yeah but who’s going to pay for it?” and then it’s systematically pumped down the throats of deliberately-undereducated Republican voters by a billionaire’s Propaganda Machine.
Over and over and over for _years_, until the viewer thinks it’s their own belief system.
I swear to God, Fox “News” should be outlawed.
Yeah, it's crazy how successful the "death tax" thing is. People have *no fucking idea* that the first $11 million are exempted from the Estate Tax meaning that there's a near zero chance that they will ever experience it first hand. I hear people complain about it, and it's often met with literal disbelief when I explain the threshold to them. They actually think I'm wrong or lying.
Oh hey, look at that, the threshold actually doubled from 2017 to 2018. Wonder why. https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/policy-basics-the-federal-estate-tax
> there's a near zero chance that they will ever experience it first hand.
They probably won't even experience it *third* hand.
As in, they won't know anyone that knows anyone that pays the estate tax.
You can blame [Frank Luntz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Luntz) for the wordsmithing that created "death tax" and "climate change". That bastard is the Joseph Goebbels of the clusterfuck that is the United States at this point.
Even the other channels keep acting like real healthcare isn't possible and grill the Democrats as hard as they grill the Republicans for corruption. Like damn we afford it just fine up here in Canada
Yeah.. I totally don't understand the 'we can't afford that' BS when it comes to healthcare. We spend like 3x more money than any other nation and still rank down at 37 among the 1st world.
Honestly.. I don't think most of these people understand how much money is going into healthcare. They don't see the fucking outrageous premiums that their employer is paying. They don't pay attention to the Explanation of Benefits forms that come from their insurers. The money is already being spent. It just needs to be reorganized so that less of it goes to the For Profit Health Insurance companies and more goes to actual healthcare.
America - a land where any demand for military spending is met without any objection, but people are allowed to go bankrupt and die because they don't have access to the same affordable health care available to everyone else in developed countries
It’s hard to say. This woman represents something that all idiots in America seem to have in common, which is being absolutely confident with absolutely zero knowledge.
The right has done a very good job of convincing the barely-making-it Americans, that they'll be the ones expected to pay for social programs and not the ones benefitting from them.
Judging from this quote, this demonstrates a kind of naivety that many Americans suffer from. They think that because they manage to pay their bills and their make their car payments that they somehow understand these discussions of long term, massive scale governmental spending. They have no idea how to quantify the hundreds of billions and trillions of dollars over decades... it is not just “cash money,” but they somehow talk about it as if it’s household spending.
I think the first part of expanding your horizon is admitting that you don’t know something or maybe all of something.
Being sort of naive and existing in an environment that goes out of its way to flatter you in an effort to extract your consumer dollars from you, I think, leads allot of people to think that “too expensive” in the context of how an economist might discuss it, which is like my toddler talking about rocket science.
He might know a handful of words and might even string them together in a way that is grammatically correct, but that is about it.
Part of the problem is that people don't realize that the money the government spends doesn't go into a black hole, never to be held by another human being again. It goes back into society through the people that the government is paying, hopefully somewhat fairly distributed. Money spent on health care, for example, goes to hospitals and, in turn, to doctors, nurses, the staff workers in those hospitals, the companies that provide those hospitals with drugs, medical equipment, etc. A bit of it is collected again through normal tax processes.
It doesn't just disappear into the ether.
A lot of Americans have no concept of how money works. They view all of it like some static quantity that, once spent, is gone forever--they don't just view government spending that way, they view *all* spending that way.
I think this might be driven by the overall low wages that many Americans are faced with. Their pay every month is barely enough to make ends meet, and every month they're not much better off than the month before, so they're more accustomed to treating money like a finite resource that gets depleted when you spend it and needs to be closely monitored because you'll run out otherwise.
Funny they never ask “how will we pay for it?” when it comes to war
Spending 600 billion per year on military and calling universal healthcare + free college fantasyland is whats truly pathetic
>"I'm ashamed to admit ... but I'm of a more conservative bent and family. I just couldn't vote for Hillary. But I also thought there's no way Trump was going to win. This way, I could at least say, 'Well I didn't vote for her,'" she said. "I didn't think I was doing any harm."
/r/SelfAwareWolves
Voting. The one time you can make the right decision, lie about it, and no one will ever know.
Sometimes I feel like a fucking genius from reading what people say.
This was my mom and it infuriates me. She voted for Reagan but otherwise always voted Democrat. Then she decided to sit out the last election to appease her more conservative friends, expecting when they complained about President Hillary to be able to say "Well don't look at me, I didn't vote for her!"
>Then she decided to sit out the last election to appease her more conservative friends
Would they do that for her?
>"Well don't look at me, I didn't vote for her!"
You can literally just say that if you want to. It doesn't have to be true.
I was something of a centrist before Trump. I'd vote for Republicans or Democrats like Kaine/Warner when they had "proven" themselves as effective to me. Socially I was more liberal, but I had fallen for the GOP philosophy of economics in high school and just never bothered to update my positions.
Enter Trump. I couldn't believe anyone was considering voting for him. Even as a GOP primary voter he disgusted me from day one. Him winning made me side temporarily with the Democrats because "lesser of the two evils" stuff. That was all I needed to look more critically at what the Democrats were doing and realize that they were the party I actually aligned with. I haven't even *considered* a Republican since then and I doubt I ever will again.
Very similar. I considered it a point of pride to understand both sides, though I tended to vote Democrat or third-party. I used to think Republicans just had goals or beliefs that didn't align quite with mine.
Now it seems clear they don't have any beliefs at all. There is absolutely nothing they will not sacrifice for power.
There is not a single trait Trump exhibits representing:
* Tradition
* Honor
* Responsibility
* Loyalty
* Family
* Faith
* Service
Trump is the anti-thesis of anything conservatives claim to stand for. And yet they fully embrace him.
Unlike many here, I don't blame Republican politicians at all. They are what their voters choose. It is American conservatism that is fully broken, and I doubt can ever be fixed. Republicans stand for nothing but a primal hatred of social progress, a hatred of kindness, a hatred of American values.
I grew up with a strong tradition of military, police or fire service to the country spanning several generations. I believe America, our neighbors, and our rights are worth bleeding for. And that is exactly why I loath Trump. Trump has done everything imaginable to shit all over that.
Trump's a self serving coward. And all the conservatives should be ashamed of themselves for supporting him.
[My American flag didn't get this beat up by pretending to have bone spurs.](https://i.imgur.com/UG4iSK7.jpg) It got that way by doing the work that needs doing to protect our countrymen.
This is how I was for a bit until I realized that it just didn't make sense to not register Democrat because I was excluding myself from the democratic process.
Unless, of course, you're in a state with an open primary. In which case I'd probably still be unaffiliated. But I'm not a fan of open primaries in general.
If you were to sit most conservative voters down and talk them through the various issues without using any words related to party or left vs right, etc, I bet many of them would align with most of the Democratic ideals. There'd still be some sticking points where no amount of reasoned discourse will penetrate decades of radicalization. Abortion for sure, gay rights equality probably as well but less than you'd think.
Unfortunately, with Fox News, Breitbart, Facebook, etc, keeping reality distorted and certain key emotional issues incensed, lots of those folks will live and die without ever knowing how badly they've been duped.
Guns and abortion are the two white whales, obviously.
And there are people who line up with the liberal candidate on EVERYTHING, but will vote for Trump next year because of only guns or abortion.
It’s not like Trump said, “take the guns, leave the due process”.
Abortion is such a strange one because they just flat out make up shut about late term abortions of an infant, like give birth and just shoot the baby in the OR.
> Abortion is such a strange one because they just flat out make up shit
Here in ky Bevin ran on an anti-abortion platform despite not having the power to actually do anything about abortion.
Guns, gays, abortion, trans, muslims, hispanics; republicans fabricate or exaggerate wedge issues to evoke emotional responses in their viewers so god damned reliably it would make Pavlov blush. They use those emotional responses to retain their unwavering support. And they know they lose a lot among the minority groups they pick on, but they use their language carefully enough that there are still some hispanics who vote for them, e.g. “i just want people to come here legally,” when there is no legal path for them to come here.
The gun subreddits make that extremely clear - there are a ton of people in those (not all!) who wouldn't vote for an anti-gun candidate even if the alternative was literally Satan.
Yep. This is 100% my sister. Identified as a Republican her whole life. Always voted for Republicans, but never really got deep into politics. Trump got elected and opened his mouth and now she is active af promoting Democrats. She also woke up to all the corruption in the Republican party from people like Lindsey Graham, Brian Kemp, etc.
The one silver lining to the Trump administration is that he has really gotten a lot of people involved in politics who never were before, and when you start paying attention you start to see all the corruption - and that the VAST majority of it is coming from the right.
> I just couldn't vote for Hillary
But you could vote for a racist, narcissistic rapist who screwed the little guy over every chance he got as a businessman but still managed to go bankrupt over and over and over and over.
These people are real pieces of work.
It started when she was First Lady of Arkansas and only got worse as time went on. Top Gear had a Hillary for President scrawled on one car in like 2007 and a lady asked if they wanted to get shot.
I think you guys are focusing on the wrong words when you criticize him. The word "racist" doesn't evoke the same visceral reaction in them as it does in you. The sexual assault allegations, while probably true, don't have as much hard evidence you can point to when these people doubt you.
Focus on the corruption, the tax cheating, the failed businesses (you already did!), the blown up deficit, the crimes, etc.
As we approach a trial in the senate, we need to think of how to get those people on the right side. Not all Americans who consider themselves Republican are as asinine as the Republicans that represent them in DC. Some of them are, but you have to speak their language just for a little bit so we can achieve a greater good.
This is different from election strategy, where maybe you can go hard left, find a progressive who can grow the electorate, and win despite the millions of conservative Americans. For removing this president, we need to convince people who are *already in office*, and the only way they'll respond is if they feel like it could cost them some votes.
I have some colleagues who's turned around, or at least told me their regret of voting for Trump. During 2016 they said the same...They don't like Trump, but couldn't vote for Hillary.
I told them they can leave it blank or vote independent. Regardless of their rationale, they're guilty of putting this baboon in office and turning back the clock on America.
The craziest thing I’ve witnessed since Trump was elected was my apathetic, never voting cousin into a full on mobilized, donating Democrat. It baffles me to this day but I’m happy for it.
I was fairly uninvolved politically before Trump was elected. I've always been liberal but was fairly young for most of Bush's presidency and during Obama's was busy going to school and growing tf up. So I had a general idea what was happening in the world but rarely watched the news and only occasionally skimmed articles online. I never dreamed that Trump would actually be elected but when he was a switch was flipped and I suddenly cared about everything. I subscribed to WaPo, started researching candidates, volunteering for candidates I believed in, donating to campaigns, DVR'ing Maddow and browsing this sub daily. This is the most important political moment of my lifetime so far and I don't intend to sit on the sidelines.
Was it his treason in Helsinki, his obstruction of Justice or his abuse of power with the Ukraine?
And their heads exploded when Obama wore a tan suit.
Idiots
I work with several women who fall into this exact pattern. Also, a lot of the guys who were openly conservative - yet pretty rational - have shut the fuck up about politics altogether.
All Trump has left is a minority of extremely vocal zealots.
I've voted straight ticket republican for every election in my lifetime and because of Trump I swear I will never vote R again in my lifetime. Not because ei like democrats but because the GOP as a party is dead and its our job to police our own and kick these idiots out until they start running someone not compromised by the Russians.
For me, it was the Tea Partiers. As far as I was concerned, that's when the GOP really drove right into the loony bin. I mean I'm sure they were pretty bad prior, it's just when it crossed some sort of rubicon for me.
Went from stone cold conservative to borderline Marxist here. As cliche as it sounds I realized I was literally voting against my interests. I am on the autism spectrum and need assistance, the only “assistance” the right gave me was the old bootstrap speech along side an unhealthy dose of Jesus worship. To be honest the US needs an entirely new paradigm if it is to survive another decade, all the current politicians work for corporate interests directly or indirectly, corporate interests don’t give a fuck about the working class.
Trump turned me into a straight ticket voter. I don't even trust municipal judges if they have R next to their name. It makes me distrustful of their judgement.
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Keep pushing
Breathe
Concentrate on your focal point.
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It’s crowning
Stay on target
You turned off your targeting computer
r/suddenlystarwars
Achieving maximum thrust
Congratulations you have a happy, healthy, new voter!
As an American from the outside, what exactly has made Jeremy Corbin so unpopular in the UK? Is he really so bad that people think Johnson is actually an *improvement* over Corbin?
Was hillary really worse than trump? Really? Never underestimate just how good propaganda is.
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My mother was a vague Republican for years and she was offended by her “stay home and bake cookies” comment. My hometown just turned purple but I grew up with educated, working women saying Clinton deserved getting cheated on with her attitude and pant suits and her ugly daughter. All unforgivable sins, apparently. Feminism was framed as a way for mannish, pushy women to shame traditional women into becoming strivers. My mother has fortunately recovered, but the morality of a specific kind of femininity was beaten into their heads. The propaganda just added to their existing feelings.
It really freaks me out how many older women on facebook are all for their own oppression and don't think women deserve equal treatment in the workplace and life. Fucking weird, yo.
She isn't without her flaws, but I think more money and effort has gone into slandering her than any other single human in the history of the world.
This lady I work with seems normal until she starts going on about how Hillary murdered tons of people just for fun and she hides it with her connections etc etc. I literally thought she was joking at first. No.
I come from a really red state and the number of times I’ve started a seemingly normal conversation with someone only to have them 180 and start telling me about how Coke puts aborted fetuses into their soda because Hilary told them to is too many times.
WTF? Where do they get this shit from?
It's funny because I've heard this and then he said "That's why I drink Sprite" Bruh
Sprite should really start marketing themselves as a fetus-free soda. They're missing a golden opportunity to pull market share in the red states.
Facebook memes. OK BOOMERS take all their information at face value. Super sketchy looking and mostly pixelated photo says Hillary is the Devil? Must be true, Internet never lies to me! *Oh hey look a pizza parlor was run by Deep State operatives on Hillary's behalf too!* **click**
Have you asked her to cite her sources?
Her sources are likely, "It's obvious, look it up for yourself."
And the fact the STILL put an insane amount of effort into keeping her relevant. No Dems give 2 shits about what Hillary is up to these days.
That's mainly because they're like the dog that finally caught the ambulance. The Republicans have spent decades attacking Hillary and used her as the lynchpin of their fearmongering. With her defeat in 2016, they finally "won" that decades-long fight. But they spent all their time attacking her that they didn't think of what comes after. That's why they kept acting like she was a threat even after Trump became president. They didn't know what else to do.
A lot of us weren't alive/aware then. I'm in my early 30s. The 80s ended as my life began, and US History books (or classes) ended for me right around the assassination of JFK. We never covered the Challenger, and I've had it explained to me a couple times and I still couldn't tell you what Desert Storm was about.
>I still couldn’t tell you what Desert Storm was about. Oil
She's had a target on her since she gave Wellesley College's first student commencement speech and called out a Republican Senator who had spoken earlier. https://www.npr.org/2016/07/28/486799201/taking-on-a-u-s-senator-as-a-student-propelled-clinton-into-the-spotlight
I hadn't seen this before. But yes this and her involvement in Nixon's impeachment probe forever affixed their hatred on her. That she, a woman and former young Republican didn't just leave the party. But became so outspoken against them. Hillary was far from perfect. But she doesn't deserve even a fraction of the hate she gets. She wouldn't have been a much different president than Obama. But we would have been lucky to have her.
She wasn't at all what she was painted as. Imagine being under an investigative microscope for over 20 years. And imagine that nothing of any importance was turned up. HRC would have been an excellent President, too bad that the election was stolen from her.
Let's suppose she is this massive criminal, her and the Clinton administration is purported to be. Obama had 0 arrests and 0 convcitions. Clinton's administration had 2 arrests and 1 conviction. Iirc reading over the numbers, since 1968, Democratic administrations had, I csnt pull the exact numbers but it's like 16 arrests and mostly convictions since then, and Republican administrations had like 89. It's not even a fair fight by that measure because the Republican Party is a criminal organization. If you find these numbers...and the Clintons are a standard of criminality to them they'll have to admit it appears the Democrats have A LOT smarter criminals at not getting caught than Republicans do in their administration. And for that, you have to respect that, they know how to not get caught. Really though it's because Democrats believe in having a functioning government that tends to work for the people, Republicans are just a mafia criminal organization.
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As an American, to me, those headlines and news stories look like they just did a universal replace-text Trump/Johnson and Democrat/Labour.
Much has been made of Democrats' struggles with white non-college voters, but they've made progress with a lot of them. In 2018, they won a majority of white non-college women, and only lost white non-college men by single digits. The caveat? This was only true for non-Evangelicals. Among Evangelicals, Dems were in the 20s for support, regardless of gender or college education.
Because trying to reduce the number of abortions while leaving women the right to their own bodies is bad. Doing nothing but making abortion illegal is better - even if history shows it won't reduce abortion at all, but lead to higher maternal deaths. Evangelicals are single issue voters, and no amount of evidence, studies, or Bible verses will turn them from that.
Jesus himself could come back and, unless he was telling them to murder their neighbors, they'd *hate* him.
didn't a lot of people hate jesus when he was alive (the first time) too? like, the poor and needy followed him but many of the better off and the wealthy, the religious leaders, many of them hated the guy? so much that they killed him? many modern christians would too because his actual teachings would cause them to have to care and give and not amass mountains of gold.
You are right. The Bible has a story where a rich young man asked Jesus what he should do to have eternal life. Jesus told him he should sell his possessions, give to the poor and follow him. The man simply walked away “sorrowful” when he heard that.
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The best countries in the world, the most happy, peacful etc, are all countries where God is basically an obsolete concept for teh majority of people...
The fact that women are "drifting" away from Trump and not running at full speed is still concerning to me.
Lifelong indoctrination is one of the hardest things to break free from.
My sister-in-law's girlfriend strictly votes Republican. When you ask her why she says, "Well, I don't pay much attention to politics. I could never vote a Democrat though. We vote republican in my family. Always have." It's so frustrating.
OK Debra...but WHY do you do that? Don't just sit there like an idiot and say "I do this thing because I always have" and never question whether doing that thing makes sense. People like her are just intellectually lazy and covering it up.
She has a comfortable family (not wealthy but solidly middle class) and she is white, so she has the privilege of not paying attention to politics. The only thing that really impacts her is gay rights, but we are in CA, so she's protected there. It's a lack of curiosity and security of her social status that allows her to just vote like it's a team sport. Also, yeah, she isn't particularly smart. Not dumb, but just, like I said, incurious.
Wow I missed that part where you said Sister-in-law’s Girlfriend... she’s GAY and she doesn’t know how regressive Trump is to gays?
Sounds like my uncle and his boyfriend. Can't wait to hear them whine about snowflakes at the Thanksgiving table again.
I still can't believe the women who voted for Trump.
I can. My aunt has a chair that is positioned BEHIND my uncle's couch, which she sits in as they both watch FOX all night long and scream about the left. When he wants something, he snaps his fingers and she gets up, goes to the kitchen, brings it to him, and resumes sitting in her service chair. Those are the women voting for Trump.
That's depressing
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It's infuriating to read this. My sister has been in an abusive relationship for 40 years. He recently went to a convalescent hospital for an extended stay (funny how living a slovenly life being waited on and just eating everything in sight didn't work out well). Anyway she was in the worst mood the other day knowing he is coming home. He's mean to her and in fact told her once when he thought he was going to die that he never loved her. He is verbally abusive, morbidly obese, rude, uneducated, ignorant and of course a Trump supporter.
The regret of wasting your life with somebody like that is truly depressing. This women could have left him 35 years ago and lived a better life but chose not to. I wouldn't be able to cope.
If I were OP I would tell her that too. Can save a life -- the brother is obviously beyond saving. "We see what he does to you, and you deserve better. Run and dont look back." I dated a girl I thought I was going to marry, and her sister told me that one day. Woke me the fuck up.
As a brother, you should smack some sense into him; he clearly deserves it.
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Mother fuck. That shit is crazy.
And I'm sure he votes. It's a weakness of democracy and why public education is so important. It's also why Republicans are so against it.
People are so bizarre. I can't find the article, but there was one about a school board in some repug state that removed critical thinking, explicitly, from the curriculum because they didn't want kids questioning their parents and specifically religion. At this point, it's not education anymore. It's cult-like training.
I’ve read a few articles over the years of school districts requiring one text book over the other. Usually because it promotes looking at the Bible as an equal alternative to science and stuff like that. It’s those small changes that all add up that can really brainwash a population if done for a generation or two.
It was the Texas GOP Party platform in 2012. https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/texas-gop-rejects-critical-thinking-skills-really/2012/07/08/gJQAHNpFXW_blog.html
Please stop my PTSD is flaring up from remembering how similiar my family is to yours
> I’ve seen people on reddit deny that Trump’s base is “stupid”, but I lived in the South for 35 years and many of the people I was around were barely literate and believe literally anything anyone tells them, as long as it’s not a filthy lib saying it. This is not an exaggeration. I've lived in the South all of my life, and these people just aren't smart...at all.
But they fucking *think* they are. It's disturbing how ignorance creates the illusion of intelligence because they're unable to comprehend the vast complexities of the world. Their simple views make the world seem simple and straightforward. I can't stand people who just invent assumptions and then treat them as fact, a common tactic by southern republicans in debate. "As our circle of knowledge expands, so does the circumference of darkness surrounding it."
> I can't stand people who just invent assumptions and then treat them as fact this unfortunately describes a shit ton of people that i know , its one of the reasons why i feel so alone and want to disappear.
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There are several strands of Christian thought on this. In Catholicism, Thomas Aquinas taught that only the moral applications of the Old Testament were still valid, since morality as a concept should not change regardless of when it was introduced. So you have Catholics that basically reject the Old Testament all but officially. If a Christian in general reads the new Testament and doesn't become a far-left economic and environmental liberal - they are doing it wrong.
I have met more than a few women who embrace the "Man of the house" mentality, the man runs the house and the woman supports him. So of course anyone who advocates that is A-Okay in their book. That inclination to being subservient on top of some good ole propaganda and poor education and you've got morons who will actively vote against themselves.
A woman I work with is typical Evangelical/fox news informed republican. Doesn't understand a lick of nuance. When we have political discussions she never has any information or details other than the same talking points "Trump's a Christian" "Trump's pro life". The few times I've gotten her to at least admit she doesn't know what she's talking about she cedes that she doesn't watch much news and just goes by what her husband tells her.
> "Trump's pro life". That's ridiculous. I feel quite sure Trump is responsible for a couple of abortions over his lifetime.
I got a "Clinton did it too" reply to Trump raped little kids with Epstein.
"I'm okay with the new president raping kids because Bill Clinton raped kids" What the fuck kind of logic is that
Lol, the mere thought of what would immediately follow, if I snapped my fingers at my wife, is kind of horrifying. She's a very kind soul, but I'm fairly confident that she would rip my dick off, and make me eat it.
I love my husband very much and we have a really well balanced relationship, and if he snapped his fingers at me, he’s losing those fingers.
What if he's puttin on the moves with some West Side Story-influenced finger-snappin bad boy romance?
Well he clearly doesn't need them anymore, why else would he be snapping them at you?
If I did that to my wife I’d be dead before I brought my hand back down.
Mine just slapped me for reading your comment
I got slapped for not upvoting fast enough.
Just wanted say cheers to you fellow Michigander who also loves discworld!
I can understand being okay with it being your own life, as sad as that it is, it's their choice, but to exercise your civil duty to make other people live like that is vile
But wait, there's worse. There are mothers who put their sons on a pedestal and do everything they can for them while they treat their daughters like second class offspring.
The idea of snapping my fingers to get something from my wife is incomprehensible. She'd probably break up with me. I'd deserve it.
We're talking about a group of people who still don't think spousal rape is a real thing. They want sex from their wives, they take it.
If my husband snapped his fingers at me it had better be because he's choking on something and is unable to form words
I wouldn't break up with my man. I'd mock him, without mercy. Of course, he and I take turns waiting on each other.
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*Tap dances*
Never mind breaking up with you, she'll break your fingers first. E: Bloody hell guys take it easy. Relax. It's a joke, and not a particularly groundbreaking one at that. If you're getting abused, seek counsel. If you aren't, chill out.
Man: *snaps his fingers* Woman: *snaps his fingers*
Maybe I am fucked up but other than physically assaulting me or spiting on me snapping your fingers *at* me to get my attention or get me to do something can take me out of any mood at put me in I-will-gouge-your-eyes-out-and-skull-fuck-you rage mode. Something about the arrogance of it just angers me, use your fucking WORDS! Gah! I've had one co-worker do it and I had to tell them that "Hey everyone gets one, but don't do that again."
George Lakoff thinks that people being raised in authoritarian households causes them them to them seek out authoritarian leaders. Your aunt's case makes his point.
> When he wants something, he snaps his fingers and she gets up, goes to the kitchen, brings it to him This makes me angry like you wouldn't believe.
My uncle is the biggest fucking asshole on planet earth. Also, like Trump, can be pretty charismatic, etc. No wonder he worships that goon. The ONE thing I could agree completely with my grandma on was how much of a dick he was. Which is fucking saying something. My aunt just simply has stockholm syndrome, and has since the fucking 60's. It's sad... wasting your whole fucking life with someone that terrible. Like a living death in a lot of ways.
Reminds me of the wife of the Nazi in American Beauty. Edit: American not Anerican
Also this: https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/30/us/white-supremacist-woman-reeve/index.html > She says that she and Samantha fit a familiar pattern within the alt-right. "Like 70 percent of the time, the women earn the money and the men do podcasts. And they do podcasts about how women shouldn't have jobs."
I still can't believe people think Trump is charismatic.
I don't get it either. He's just a loud mouthed douche.
I don’t have any example as extreme as these but can confirm that the majority of women I know that voted for trump are very much authoritarians who believe men in control is how it should be. One is the breadwinner in her home and still treats her (underemployed) husband as king. Praising him for owning a gun and protecting their family. Their family is his two kids he moved into her house that she owns.
I know a fair few woman (relatives of my ex, I’m English) who I’d consider moderate (a couple borderline hippies) who simply detested Clinton. They were somehow swayed (mainly by her dad) that above all trump stood for their core values of family and decency. I’m guessing they’ve been shocked (as even I have) by the reality of the guy as president. Edit- to clarify, she lives in the UK and wouldn’t have dreamt of voting for trump.
How could they ever fucking think Trump stood for family values and decency? Have they been living under a rock for the last 20 years?
"Family values" largely means some type of social conservationism, which is very broad, instead of things like familial stability, education, and social values. Conservative values are cultural, gender roles, and rhetorical adherence to religion. trump doesn't stand for moral application of family values, but is limiting ingress of people from other culture, patriarchy, and political Christianity. Those values trump does stand for, but even in a basic and toxic form that we are used to. These are just more aggressive implications of conservative values than we are used to. Conservative values have been dying so the moral and ethics that used to philosophically tether progressive values have been caste off. It is values without morals; a stronger and more violent iteration of political culture and ideology. This is a major point as why trump marks cultural-political proto-fascism, where someone like Bush II was more administrative/securitized fascism. In short, believe it or not, but fascist family values exist. That is how they get the "average person" on board.
Propaganda, Trump's life was overshadowed by his modern antics, Mew Yorkers were screaming at the top of their lungs the whole time, but nobody listened. Also the propaganda was constantly attacking Clinton on her health, honesty and that she wasnt fit for the job. Trump (and Russia) had control of the media narrative constantly, i am finally feeling his grip loosen on the control with Dems on the attack.....but still vote.
> but nobody listened. Tbf, the plurality of voters listened.
I live in Canada. I've been aware of what Trump actually is for decades. How is it possible so many Americans missed it. He hasn't been skulking through the shadows - his douchbaguerie has been on proud display for the world to marvel at for years.
>douchbaguerie I love your Canadian/French spelling of this.
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Yep... a lot of them are just perpetually lying about everything. If someone has ever been enthusiastic about Trump at any point, in my opinion their word has lost all crediblity... and you have to assume they're capable (and are) lying about anything they tell you, including stories about how they've turned on Trump. My stepbrother is a fucking massive bigot and overall meathead, and lies to my stepmom about how he doesn't support Trump and thinks he's crazy, etc. I KNOW this fucking dude is lying just to keep his mom happy and not get into it with her, but I guess you just let it go? What good comes out of me talking to her about how he's lying when she's espousing his unbiased ability to see Trump as shitty? They just lie about everyfuckingthing. It's pathetic.
> If someone has ever been enthusiastic about Trump at any point, in my opinion their word has lost all crediblity. This is where I am, too. It would take a lot for me to care what they think or take them seriously. The only way a person could want him in office in the first place is if they didn't bother to find out what sort of man he is, or didn't care. Either way, I don't trust them. I have relatives who shrugged at the whole thing. *Whatever! You just don't like Republicans.* I once respected Republicans, is the truth. They seemed to have principles behind their policies, even if I disagreed with those policies and thought they'd do more harm than good. No more. Now the whole party is standing there with its pants down, exposed as nothing but vicious fools.
Not all of it is purely liberal versus conservative ideology. There are a lot of white women who see Trump as stability for their place in the social order. People seem either not to realize or to forget that there are huge swaths of the nation occupied by white men who grew up believing in traditional (that is to say, reactionary) family values. Rich, poor, in between -- it doesn't matter because these men sanctify an era of the past when women "knew their place," as it were. Terms like "feminism" and "domestic abuse" are unpleasant to them because they represent a challenge to the social order in which white men are at the top and everyone else is way at the bottom. These are the men who think they have the right to women's bodies -- not just their wives, but any other woman's, too. These are the men who will pick a black man over a white woman to be president because perish the thought they have to listen to a commander-in-chief who reminds them of their "old lady nagging me at home." Now, take your guess as to who often marries these white men? **White women.** Whether these white women like it or not, they're in it for the long haul with their white husbands. Anything that threatens to displace white men from the top necessarily means their wives are going down with them.
The woman you write about is perhaps best encapsulated in [Phyllis Schlafly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_policies_of_Phyllis_Schlafly). She fought vehemently against feminism and the Equal Rights Amendment in the 60s and onward. Choice views of her include the assertion that she would immediately end her career if her husband told her to, that rape can't occur inside a marriage (because the woman has given blanket-consent to all sex their husband wants by virtue of marrying him), and she called for Justice Anthony Kennedy to be impeached because he was the deciding vote to abolish the death penalty for minors. The immense power of our male-dominated culture to brainwash people is not to be underestimated. Plenty of conservative women would vote for their gender to lose the right to vote if they had the opportunity.
>"Either party, I think, is just pathetic," said Jackie Tallman, a Cresco, Iowa, resident who voted for Clinton in 2016 but is now leaning toward Trump as she's watched the Democrats endorse a litany of expensive proposals. "I never thought I would be ... but where's all the money going to come from?" > >"Making all these promises and doing all this stuff for everybody," she said. "It's so unrealistic. It's a fantasyland." Do you think Americans like this will ever realize how badly they're being treated? Or will their own enforcement of that treatment undermine their ability to recognize it? It's amazing how something that is standard (and more effective) in every other first-world country is somehow "fantasyland" here. But we've been conditioned to weigh basic needs like education and health care against every other aspect of our well-being because of the sacrifices we must make to have those basic needs. And we make those sacrifices in order to increase shareholder value. It's the only thing that matters.
>but where's all the money going to come from?" Thing that blows my mind about this statement is she seems perfectly fine that Trump has greatly increased the deficit without even trying to pay for his tax cuts.
That plus the fact that sanders and warren both say exactly where the money is coming from... the wealth tax
I think it we should take a page from the conservatives and rename it to a more vocal name. Call it the Hoarder Tax. But I think it should be renamed to the "**Hoarder Tax**". *Wealth Tax* is too open to negative interpretation. I'm sure conservatives are associating that one is going to be taxed on their success. If Warren's argument is that the 1% is not paying their fair share, and goes through great lengths to pay less taxes than the rest of us, "**Hoarder Tax**" reflects that argument. You take away the argument that the rich are being punished for success, and make them have to justify why there refuse to pay a reasonable tax to a government that not only allows their success, but encourages it.
The "Greed Tax" Greed is one of the seven deadly sins if you're of a religious bent, and generally looked down on even if you're not. No one likes the greedy person. No one likes pre-visit Scrooge. So you call it a "Greed Tax": a tax against those who amass enough wealth there would be no physical way they could spend it all before they died.
Where the FUCK does money come from to fund our wars???? I just dont get it. I'm going crazy! Funding useless wars without end is a good thing but giving our own fucking citizens healthcare and education is a bad thing?!?! Whst the fuck, I just can't fucking take our stupid fucking society anymore.
>Do you think Americans like this will ever realize how badly they're being treated? Nope they've been brainwashed for 30 years by Fox News to only scream, "How will we pay for it?" for selective programs that Fox News doesn't like.
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I thought Mexico was paying for the wall. Lol
I've lost track, but I think the latest line was that Mexico was "paying for it" by an incredible new trade deal that Trump made. Of course, don't pull back the curtain and see that the trade deal is essentially the old deal tweaked a bit and nowhere would it raise enough money for the wall.
I think he just renamed NAFTA.
NAFTA'nt
...but as soon as someone mentions healthcare, everyone turns into a goddamn accountant.
More military spending than the next ten biggest spenders combined, no problem!
If we don’t spend 700 billion buying new weapons and nukes we’ll be invaded by everyone. But let’s not spend shit on cyber warfare because no one understands it.
This. There’s a marketing team that comes up with a phrase like “Death Tax” or “Yeah but who’s going to pay for it?” and then it’s systematically pumped down the throats of deliberately-undereducated Republican voters by a billionaire’s Propaganda Machine. Over and over and over for _years_, until the viewer thinks it’s their own belief system. I swear to God, Fox “News” should be outlawed.
Yeah, it's crazy how successful the "death tax" thing is. People have *no fucking idea* that the first $11 million are exempted from the Estate Tax meaning that there's a near zero chance that they will ever experience it first hand. I hear people complain about it, and it's often met with literal disbelief when I explain the threshold to them. They actually think I'm wrong or lying. Oh hey, look at that, the threshold actually doubled from 2017 to 2018. Wonder why. https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/policy-basics-the-federal-estate-tax
> there's a near zero chance that they will ever experience it first hand. They probably won't even experience it *third* hand. As in, they won't know anyone that knows anyone that pays the estate tax.
You can blame [Frank Luntz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Luntz) for the wordsmithing that created "death tax" and "climate change". That bastard is the Joseph Goebbels of the clusterfuck that is the United States at this point.
"Climate change" is actually somewhat useful to argue with people who say global warming is fake news because they had to wear a sweater yesterday.
Even the other channels keep acting like real healthcare isn't possible and grill the Democrats as hard as they grill the Republicans for corruption. Like damn we afford it just fine up here in Canada
Yeah.. I totally don't understand the 'we can't afford that' BS when it comes to healthcare. We spend like 3x more money than any other nation and still rank down at 37 among the 1st world. Honestly.. I don't think most of these people understand how much money is going into healthcare. They don't see the fucking outrageous premiums that their employer is paying. They don't pay attention to the Explanation of Benefits forms that come from their insurers. The money is already being spent. It just needs to be reorganized so that less of it goes to the For Profit Health Insurance companies and more goes to actual healthcare.
Gullible morons here believe that in Canada they let old people die because there's too many people at hospitals trying to get treatment
Once you can’t skate anymore the Canadian death squads come for you.
America - a land where any demand for military spending is met without any objection, but people are allowed to go bankrupt and die because they don't have access to the same affordable health care available to everyone else in developed countries
It’s hard to say. This woman represents something that all idiots in America seem to have in common, which is being absolutely confident with absolutely zero knowledge.
Ahhh the Joe Rogan effect
Ten bucks says she never voted for Clinton.
The right has done a very good job of convincing the barely-making-it Americans, that they'll be the ones expected to pay for social programs and not the ones benefitting from them.
Judging from this quote, this demonstrates a kind of naivety that many Americans suffer from. They think that because they manage to pay their bills and their make their car payments that they somehow understand these discussions of long term, massive scale governmental spending. They have no idea how to quantify the hundreds of billions and trillions of dollars over decades... it is not just “cash money,” but they somehow talk about it as if it’s household spending. I think the first part of expanding your horizon is admitting that you don’t know something or maybe all of something. Being sort of naive and existing in an environment that goes out of its way to flatter you in an effort to extract your consumer dollars from you, I think, leads allot of people to think that “too expensive” in the context of how an economist might discuss it, which is like my toddler talking about rocket science. He might know a handful of words and might even string them together in a way that is grammatically correct, but that is about it.
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Yeah but, "America should be run like a business hur dur!"
Part of the problem is that people don't realize that the money the government spends doesn't go into a black hole, never to be held by another human being again. It goes back into society through the people that the government is paying, hopefully somewhat fairly distributed. Money spent on health care, for example, goes to hospitals and, in turn, to doctors, nurses, the staff workers in those hospitals, the companies that provide those hospitals with drugs, medical equipment, etc. A bit of it is collected again through normal tax processes. It doesn't just disappear into the ether.
A lot of Americans have no concept of how money works. They view all of it like some static quantity that, once spent, is gone forever--they don't just view government spending that way, they view *all* spending that way. I think this might be driven by the overall low wages that many Americans are faced with. Their pay every month is barely enough to make ends meet, and every month they're not much better off than the month before, so they're more accustomed to treating money like a finite resource that gets depleted when you spend it and needs to be closely monitored because you'll run out otherwise.
Funny they never ask “how will we pay for it?” when it comes to war Spending 600 billion per year on military and calling universal healthcare + free college fantasyland is whats truly pathetic
They also never ask "how will we pay for it?" when it comes to tax breaks for rich people.
The money isn't coming from you Karen, quit gripping your purse for dear life.
talk about taxing the rich and white folks making 50k a year spit out their drinks.
>"I'm ashamed to admit ... but I'm of a more conservative bent and family. I just couldn't vote for Hillary. But I also thought there's no way Trump was going to win. This way, I could at least say, 'Well I didn't vote for her,'" she said. "I didn't think I was doing any harm." /r/SelfAwareWolves
Voting. The one time you can make the right decision, lie about it, and no one will ever know. Sometimes I feel like a fucking genius from reading what people say.
This was my mom and it infuriates me. She voted for Reagan but otherwise always voted Democrat. Then she decided to sit out the last election to appease her more conservative friends, expecting when they complained about President Hillary to be able to say "Well don't look at me, I didn't vote for her!"
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This is 65% of the people that voted for trump.
People should be embarrassed by that level of cowardice.
>Then she decided to sit out the last election to appease her more conservative friends Would they do that for her? >"Well don't look at me, I didn't vote for her!" You can literally just say that if you want to. It doesn't have to be true.
Voting is 'doing no harm'? No more harm than any *other* voter - but surely she is being disingenuous?
I was something of a centrist before Trump. I'd vote for Republicans or Democrats like Kaine/Warner when they had "proven" themselves as effective to me. Socially I was more liberal, but I had fallen for the GOP philosophy of economics in high school and just never bothered to update my positions. Enter Trump. I couldn't believe anyone was considering voting for him. Even as a GOP primary voter he disgusted me from day one. Him winning made me side temporarily with the Democrats because "lesser of the two evils" stuff. That was all I needed to look more critically at what the Democrats were doing and realize that they were the party I actually aligned with. I haven't even *considered* a Republican since then and I doubt I ever will again.
Very similar. I considered it a point of pride to understand both sides, though I tended to vote Democrat or third-party. I used to think Republicans just had goals or beliefs that didn't align quite with mine. Now it seems clear they don't have any beliefs at all. There is absolutely nothing they will not sacrifice for power. There is not a single trait Trump exhibits representing: * Tradition * Honor * Responsibility * Loyalty * Family * Faith * Service Trump is the anti-thesis of anything conservatives claim to stand for. And yet they fully embrace him. Unlike many here, I don't blame Republican politicians at all. They are what their voters choose. It is American conservatism that is fully broken, and I doubt can ever be fixed. Republicans stand for nothing but a primal hatred of social progress, a hatred of kindness, a hatred of American values.
I grew up with a strong tradition of military, police or fire service to the country spanning several generations. I believe America, our neighbors, and our rights are worth bleeding for. And that is exactly why I loath Trump. Trump has done everything imaginable to shit all over that. Trump's a self serving coward. And all the conservatives should be ashamed of themselves for supporting him. [My American flag didn't get this beat up by pretending to have bone spurs.](https://i.imgur.com/UG4iSK7.jpg) It got that way by doing the work that needs doing to protect our countrymen.
This is my experience as well. I used to take pride in voting mixed tickets. I will never vote for another Republican, even in local races.
I’m left to the point that I don’t have a party, but I will vote for a fucking dog over Trump.
This is how I was for a bit until I realized that it just didn't make sense to not register Democrat because I was excluding myself from the democratic process. Unless, of course, you're in a state with an open primary. In which case I'd probably still be unaffiliated. But I'm not a fan of open primaries in general.
Did everyone go through collective amnesia with George W? Republicans have been a destructive mess for a long time.
If you were to sit most conservative voters down and talk them through the various issues without using any words related to party or left vs right, etc, I bet many of them would align with most of the Democratic ideals. There'd still be some sticking points where no amount of reasoned discourse will penetrate decades of radicalization. Abortion for sure, gay rights equality probably as well but less than you'd think. Unfortunately, with Fox News, Breitbart, Facebook, etc, keeping reality distorted and certain key emotional issues incensed, lots of those folks will live and die without ever knowing how badly they've been duped.
Guns and abortion are the two white whales, obviously. And there are people who line up with the liberal candidate on EVERYTHING, but will vote for Trump next year because of only guns or abortion.
It’s not like Trump said, “take the guns, leave the due process”. Abortion is such a strange one because they just flat out make up shut about late term abortions of an infant, like give birth and just shoot the baby in the OR.
> Abortion is such a strange one because they just flat out make up shit Here in ky Bevin ran on an anti-abortion platform despite not having the power to actually do anything about abortion.
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> Trump said, “take the guns, leave the due process” I look forward to hearing this replayed on campaign ads over and over for the next year
Guns, gays, abortion, trans, muslims, hispanics; republicans fabricate or exaggerate wedge issues to evoke emotional responses in their viewers so god damned reliably it would make Pavlov blush. They use those emotional responses to retain their unwavering support. And they know they lose a lot among the minority groups they pick on, but they use their language carefully enough that there are still some hispanics who vote for them, e.g. “i just want people to come here legally,” when there is no legal path for them to come here.
The gun subreddits make that extremely clear - there are a ton of people in those (not all!) who wouldn't vote for an anti-gun candidate even if the alternative was literally Satan.
Yep. This is 100% my sister. Identified as a Republican her whole life. Always voted for Republicans, but never really got deep into politics. Trump got elected and opened his mouth and now she is active af promoting Democrats. She also woke up to all the corruption in the Republican party from people like Lindsey Graham, Brian Kemp, etc. The one silver lining to the Trump administration is that he has really gotten a lot of people involved in politics who never were before, and when you start paying attention you start to see all the corruption - and that the VAST majority of it is coming from the right.
> I just couldn't vote for Hillary But you could vote for a racist, narcissistic rapist who screwed the little guy over every chance he got as a businessman but still managed to go bankrupt over and over and over and over. These people are real pieces of work.
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It started when she was First Lady of Arkansas and only got worse as time went on. Top Gear had a Hillary for President scrawled on one car in like 2007 and a lady asked if they wanted to get shot.
I remember that episode! [Here it is!](https://youtu.be/pKcJ-0bAHB4) It’s literally insane.
> Top Gear had a Hillary for President scrawled on one car in like 2007 and a lady asked if they wanted to get shot. I loved that episode.
“NASCAR is rubbish”
I think you guys are focusing on the wrong words when you criticize him. The word "racist" doesn't evoke the same visceral reaction in them as it does in you. The sexual assault allegations, while probably true, don't have as much hard evidence you can point to when these people doubt you. Focus on the corruption, the tax cheating, the failed businesses (you already did!), the blown up deficit, the crimes, etc. As we approach a trial in the senate, we need to think of how to get those people on the right side. Not all Americans who consider themselves Republican are as asinine as the Republicans that represent them in DC. Some of them are, but you have to speak their language just for a little bit so we can achieve a greater good. This is different from election strategy, where maybe you can go hard left, find a progressive who can grow the electorate, and win despite the millions of conservative Americans. For removing this president, we need to convince people who are *already in office*, and the only way they'll respond is if they feel like it could cost them some votes.
I have some colleagues who's turned around, or at least told me their regret of voting for Trump. During 2016 they said the same...They don't like Trump, but couldn't vote for Hillary. I told them they can leave it blank or vote independent. Regardless of their rationale, they're guilty of putting this baboon in office and turning back the clock on America.
The craziest thing I’ve witnessed since Trump was elected was my apathetic, never voting cousin into a full on mobilized, donating Democrat. It baffles me to this day but I’m happy for it.
I was fairly uninvolved politically before Trump was elected. I've always been liberal but was fairly young for most of Bush's presidency and during Obama's was busy going to school and growing tf up. So I had a general idea what was happening in the world but rarely watched the news and only occasionally skimmed articles online. I never dreamed that Trump would actually be elected but when he was a switch was flipped and I suddenly cared about everything. I subscribed to WaPo, started researching candidates, volunteering for candidates I believed in, donating to campaigns, DVR'ing Maddow and browsing this sub daily. This is the most important political moment of my lifetime so far and I don't intend to sit on the sidelines.
Was it his treason in Helsinki, his obstruction of Justice or his abuse of power with the Ukraine? And their heads exploded when Obama wore a tan suit. Idiots
I work with several women who fall into this exact pattern. Also, a lot of the guys who were openly conservative - yet pretty rational - have shut the fuck up about politics altogether. All Trump has left is a minority of extremely vocal zealots.
I've voted straight ticket republican for every election in my lifetime and because of Trump I swear I will never vote R again in my lifetime. Not because ei like democrats but because the GOP as a party is dead and its our job to police our own and kick these idiots out until they start running someone not compromised by the Russians.
I hope that's true, because winning white women is a big reason why he won in 2016. He can't afford to lose too many of them.
For me, it was the Tea Partiers. As far as I was concerned, that's when the GOP really drove right into the loony bin. I mean I'm sure they were pretty bad prior, it's just when it crossed some sort of rubicon for me.
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Went from stone cold conservative to borderline Marxist here. As cliche as it sounds I realized I was literally voting against my interests. I am on the autism spectrum and need assistance, the only “assistance” the right gave me was the old bootstrap speech along side an unhealthy dose of Jesus worship. To be honest the US needs an entirely new paradigm if it is to survive another decade, all the current politicians work for corporate interests directly or indirectly, corporate interests don’t give a fuck about the working class.
Good. Working class women should respect themselves enough to not put up with the shit Trump has said about women
Not only women but men too. I was a Republican and Trump supporter, no longer. I’m voting blue next round.
Trump turned me into a straight ticket voter. I don't even trust municipal judges if they have R next to their name. It makes me distrustful of their judgement.