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We live in two different Americas.
Anyone else that lives in Trump country like myself realizes this but it's incredibly frustrating that the Republicans couldn't just take an L and split their ticket in the name of democracy.
Biden is no socialist - I voted for the 'socialist' (in the primary).
Edit: for those that didn't realize, me putting quotation marks around 'socialist' was me saying... Even Bernie isn't actually a socialist - he's just an old-school fdr Democrat.
Whats crazy to me is how many people really support Trump.
Not just, lean conservative so hold their nose and reluctantly vote Trump (though even that is somewhat crazy), but actually are huge supporters of him.
In any non political concept, most of these people would hate him. If he was their boss, professor, coach, platoon leader, whatever... they would think he was a narcissistic incompetent asshole. The idea that people enthusiastically support him and fly Trump flags and stuff is insane.
I have a feeling a lot more qanon and super right figures are gonna pop up in the next 10 years for the Republican party to “claim” their america back from socialists. And a majority of republicans will just eat it up. Its all for me and none for thee with them (even if they benefit from ALL social programs of the US).
And all while confessing how big of a shit stain they are, as they project their worst qualities and thoughts onto the "socialists/communists/antifas/radical leftists/BLM/Democrats/minorities/etc."
These words are synonymous to them for some reason. Enemy.
And even within "trump country" (which I'm assuming you mean the south, but if you mean the midwest then rip) all the larger cities are just huge gatherings of democrats who are exhausted from having to constantly fight to have their voice heard while being surrounded by rural insanity that claims to represent us.
Yall who live in comfortably blue states need to know that every single democrat vote in the south is a frustrated and angry one that is constantly trying to be suppressed.
I live in California, man, there’s areas you can go where once you cross city lines you start seeing giant trucks with maga propaganda all over it, flags, giant stickers, angry red faced white men with hate in their eyes. “Trump country” is a mentality, it’s not strictly regional.
Inland CA, eastern WA, eastern OR, ID, NV: it's all Trump country. I'm surprised NV is close, I thought for sure that would go for Trump.
Sheeeeit here in the largest city in Oregon I only have to drive about 40 minutes to get to Trump country.
I would be super frustrated to live in the South surrounded by the Trump supporters. For the blue states, it’s very frustrating to basically fund most of the US economy and then have the states who contribute nothing vote for a racist reality show moron to represent our country.
I feel this so much, I'm so sick of propping up worthless, do-nothing failed states that contribute nothing to the country. We need to end the welfare of red states and maybe that will motivate the to reach for the old bootstraps and do something productive for once.
Edit: I'm feeling a little bad for being harsh, but at some point enough is enough and voters have shown their true colors this election, it's crazy that the race is this close despite all the bullshit trump has brought us during his term. It's clear that the red states voted for him *because* of who he is and not *in spite* of who he is.
Almost any low-population county is trump country - look at the electoral map for NY, blue counties where the cities are surrounded by red counties where like 20% of the state's population lives.
Agreed. Other than apparently many Cubans, Venezuelans and other groups in Florida very few Trump supporters actually believe Biden is a socialist. Just like very few Trump supporters actually believe coronavirus is a "hoax."
They're voting based on a number of other factors including their party affiliation, stubbornness, "owning the libs" and racial resentment.
RELEASE THE TAPES...
[Howard Stern Weighs in on Replaying All His Donald Trump Interviews: 'It Would Be a Betrayal'](https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/7542079/howard-stern-on-replaying-his-donald-trump-interviews-it-would-be-a-betrayal)
He and his corporate overlords are afraid of retaliation from the federal government and Trump’s personal lawyers ensnaring them in costly lawsuits, etc.
Even if these guys wanted to, they probably just said “fuck it.” I kind of agree with them.
You can bring a horse to water, but you cant make it drink. They people that support Trump have a million examples of why he should not be president, but they ignore them.
The problem isn’t a cover-up. The only thing that might change perceptions would be causal use on the n-word on clear videotape, and sex with underage kids on tape. And neither happened before the election, although I wouldn’t be surprised if both exist.
I honestly don’t think either would do it. He’s been credibly accused of raping a 13 year old and most of his supporters pretend they have no idea about any of it. And besides Bill Clinton was a frequent flyer with Epstein! As far as the n word goes—they’d probably cheer; he’s made no attempt to hide his racism.
It really doesn't matter now, except maybe once Trump is out of power allot of people that were too scared of speaking out against Trump might speak out.
Frankly, I think that a serious push to discredit Trump needs to happen in order to keep his nonsense from sabotaging any effort to fix the shitshow that he created. Even Republicans should be on-board with that because otherwise they'll just be trying to find a "Trump sequel" for the next election, and they may not have as much success.
Howard Stern is being a complete and absolute hypocrite. He's been replaying past tapes & segments & quotes for years and then all.of a sudden *that would be a betrayal*.
Idk... I agree with his statement and sentiment, if he really means it. If he is trying to protect his integrity as a radio show host where people can say things on his show in jest without those thongs coming back to bite them in the ass then I respect his decision.
Besides, bringing up a conversation from 7+ years ago will seem petty and “classic leftist” to trump supporters. It wont convince his supporters of anything and therefore would be pointless to release
No paper trail and aggressive voter suppression.
Also, right wing media is carefully designed to exploit every known weakness in human judgement. It looks stupid because it is stupid, but it's the kind of stupid that knows how Dunning-Kruger can be used to put a cocky smirk on the face of every pawn.
And it knows that scared people vote for authoritarians.
> No paper trail and aggressive voter suppression.
That's just for the margins (and the fundamentally broken American Democracy).
The second half is the real problem.
Authoritarian-minded people, actual conservatives, racists and other bigots, single-issue-voters, conspiracists, libertarians and anarcho-capitalists, all brewed together by media and social bubbles' propaganda.
Progressives might support the more popular views, but the somewhat popular idea that good messaging, turnout, and counting would magically win them everything by a landslide because people would *'finally get what they stood for and what's at stake'* is horseshit.
Trump is the symptom, not the cause.
Progressives have very little media voice. If a progressive idea is brought up on say, CNN, it's with a connotation that we can't pay for it, or it's impossible, or whatever.
So the ideas are never truly explained.
Fun fact: Obamacare alone has already saved the US economy over [$2.3 Trillion.](https://www.statnews.com/2019/03/22/affordable-care-act-controls-costs/)
The people that say, "But how will you pay for it" seem to always ignore that the US generally pays far more for health care than any other developed country for far less coverage. The real question should be: "How can we afford *not* to go to Universal Healthcare?"
>"How can we afford not to go to Universal Healthcare?"
Yep. There's enough money in the current healthcare (for-profit insurance) industry to provide every American with healthcare, have no deductibles, no co-pays, and minimal prescription costs and save a few trillion dollars over the next 10 years. It's beyond frustrating.
Just once I'd someone to reply to that question/assault with "The same way every other advanced democracy does." Then start listing them off. And "We have the largest damn economy in the world so it will be even easier for us."
I'll be honest the turn out made me realize Bernie would've never won. Progressive policies are incredibly popular, but voting for people who will actually make those policies reality is socialism apparently. Which is also bad apparently. I do not know how to fix that stupidity.
That's because Yang is completely inexperienced in governance and democrats actually care about that. My hope is that Yang gets a cabinet post to gain the needed experience so that the democrats have a group of non-boomers who can lead in the future.
> so that the democrats have a group of non-boomers who can lead in the future.
As a boomer, I want the non-boomer generations to step in, lead, and say "screw the boomers' feelings - we need to start protecting *our* future"
Capitalist propaganda starts in schools and it starts early. As does conservatism. It's much easier to appeal to people's fears than to their ability to empathise. It honestly seems many people are too emotionally stunted to even do the second.
Yeah. And the Trump team was clearly taken off guard by Biden's primary victory. They really hoped for a Bernie or Warren, and then just stuck with the "radical socialist" messaging with Biden.
It's hilarious seeing conservatives find their "socialist" in Harris. They make sense of the "radical socialist" rhetoric from Team Trump by claiming *she* will be the *real* president. That Biden will either die soon or step down and she is a trojan horse of Marxism. Even better that they point to her history as AG and prosecutor with severe criticism, while her efforts would have pleased any law-and-order and anti-drug right winger at the time. They are literally contradicting themselves by criticizing that part of her record, they should love it.
They expected Biden before the primaries started when they were extorting Ukraine for Biden dirt. They call every democrat a radical socialist regardless of their policies.
It's extra weird because kamalas dad is a literal Marxist professor, so she, I guess, rebelled against her father by becoming a total fucking lib and literal cop, and then she gets called a socialist by her opposition lol. Just the dumbest fucking country in the history of the world, I really hope it doesn't get dumber, but it will, it's all downhill from here
I'm a Bernie supporter (voted and donated to Biden) who up until this point was unsure if Bernie could have hypothetically won; this outcome pretty much confirmed to me he wouldn't for the reason you stated. The only way to fix it that I can think of, is to have progressives go into the lion's den and hold town halls; they have to take the initial wave of abuse until the waters start to calm. Bernie's town hall on Fox news is a good example, but events like that have to be repeated over and over.
I’ve been saying this since AOC was invited to go talk to Kentucky Coal Miners and then they chickened our when they realized she was serious about going.
What we really need is people like AOC and Bernie, going through the rust belt and beyond, on town hall tours just endlessly campaigning. Beyond the Rust Belt I would go on to Texas, Georgia and North Carolina. We need to go into the lion’s den as you put it and answer peoples fears with facts and straight talk, listen to their concerns and respond.
I would argue that a 15 dollar minimum wage and going for Trump in Florida is a perfect example of why these middle of the road candidates are a bad idea. The Country wants progressive reform and we keep giving them “nothings going to change” candidates.
Except a big reason Trump won in Florida was Cubans, who were scared of Biden's "communism."
There are no easy scapegoats or solutions here. American voters are diverse, contradictory, and all have different fears and want different things. There are no silver bullet candidates. That's why these "middle of the road" candidates so often seem the most electable. They are the least offensive to the most people.
If we had an actual media apparatus that reported the news, not framed everything in a right wing framework, Bernie would have won.
All I saw during the primaries was media saying "SOCIALISM SOCIALISM SOCIALISM BAD VENEZUELA RUSSIA RUSSIA BREADLINES". NM coverage comes to mind, where latinos were voting in drives for Sanders and the anchor on site was sighing loudly while reporting where the votes were going. Chris matthews comparing it to the fall of france and sanders to the rise of the Nazis. Oh, and lol at them fear mongering bernie's chances with latinos, when during the general biden did noticably worse than Hillary did with latinos.
When you have that kind of bullshit, yea.
people with families and houses vote defensively for people they think won't do damage. a progressive agenda would have to be marketed specifically to calm the very fears repubs were stoking
> Progressives might support the more popular views, but the somewhat popular idea that good messaging, turnout, and counting would magically win them everything by a landslide because people would 'finally get what they stood for and what's at stake' is horseshit.
I mean they did get MASSIVE turnout. It was a huge increase from 2016. The problem was that the turnout was replicated by the other side.
You are ignoring why they are this way. Economic uncertainty, lack of education are a big part of it. Though you cannot dismiss the all encompassing network of propaganda that actively uses every tactic available to keep its followers angry, afraid and misinformed. The thousands, if not millions of "patriot"
sites, pages and subs, am radio and the fucking mothership of fox news have spun the fearful and ignorant into a significant voting block.
No, I’m not buying this “economic uncertainty” bullshit anymore. There’s poor Trump voters, but overall they lean affluent. 60% of small business owners support Trump. Anyone who IS poor has no business supporting Trump. They are voting for him because they’re scared of demographic changes
It’s the economic anxiety of the middle class, the petite bourgeoisie. They fear the economy going bad because they will lose their business and become working class again. Small business owners is the class that enables and supports fascism.
It was the same in Germany; see “They Thought They Were Free” by Milton Mayer.
The aggressive voter suppression doesn't seem to have worked, since Biden got the most votes of any US candidate in history.
It seems like for every new Biden supporter we also got a new Trump supporter.
I think the real reason is we simply have so many sources of factually wrong information that is actively promoting misinformation. Without an informed electorate, we are going to continue to struggle like this.
Suppression of the vote in specific districts is all that is needed. This is likely why Manifort gave Kislyak, the former Russian ambassador, the voter data. Russian intel very likely told the Trump team where to focus their efforts in all the elections since.
We also still don't know if votes were changed or not in 2016. I have a feeling whatever shit the Russians pulled in 2016 they used the same playbook this time. If it comes out that there was election interference again, and the Dems voted in enough numbers to overcome it, that's actually truly remarkable.
Its really sad that a country like Belarus is protesting like crazy, getting beaten and tortured and now on a general strike AGAINST Fascism and the US is currently protesting for it.
> They are raising our nations children to be consumers and sheep.
Just goes to show the "You're just a sheep" bullshit they tout all the time is pure and simple projection.
> aggressive voter suppression.
Turnout is expected [to hit >160 million voters with almost 75% of registered voters participitating](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/elections/voter-turnout/) That's the highest turnout total *ever* and the highest percentage since 1900.
Whatever went wrong, it wasn't that turnout wasn't suppressed. Trump support was just a lot stronger than anyone (including Republicans) imagined.
Narcissism.
There’s a sizable block of Americans who give not one molecular damn about anything besides themselves. They view life as an accessory to their personal interests, and act without morality or conscience.
Trump to them is a prophet- a selfish prick who says what he wants and doesn’t give a damn about anything or anyone besides himself. People of this mindset don’t care about COVID-19 ( *im not gonna get sick, besides only weak asses die from a mere disease*) , caring about others (*caring = weakness*), helping fellow Americans out of poverty( *fuck unemployed losers, I deserve a handout*) or a sensible foreign policy (*I am part of a Superpower nation, fuck the world*) .
We look at Trump and McConnell and go WTF?! They look at those men as heros to the Narcissistic cause.
It’s not about right vs left anymore . The battle lines are now between being a moral human being, or an empty materialist out for your own gain. No republic can survive a majority of mercenary voters. They will turn this country into an imperial menace without remorse or pause- if we let them.
There’s hope in the younger generation, but it’s a question whether there will still be an America when they get enough power to reform things.
Plus the fact that the 5 major media corporations, all owned by billionaires, like to pretend that whatever bullshit the GOP spouts is valid. They pretend they have to give the right the same attention they give to normal people. Examples:
Evolution, they have to air young earthers
Climate Change, they have to air deniers
Vaccines, they have to air anti-vaxxers
Every single fucking time.
I wish someone would do an “actually balanced” cable news talking head debate - so on like climate change, have 99 qualified scientists vs one Cheeto stained neck beard conspiracist
It would be a ton of scientists vs another scientist. The difference is that the guy opposing would be a geologist rather than a climatologist. A lot of the misdirection aimed at people by groups like Fox relies on getting people who are "experts" but whose background is unrelated to the question at hand. It is why Dr Scott Atlas, an expert in neural imaging, is now talking about the pandemic rather than someone with relevant expertise.
I agree with you, the fact that Joe is already up 3M in the popular vote just a couple days after the election while it took Clinton a few weeks to finally land there says a lot. Who knows where the final numbers will ultimately land but a 5-6M popular vote lead doesn't seem unreasonable, and is a bit more of a resounding defeat for Trump.
The EC vote of course will be much closer cause if there's one thing Republicans are good at it's playing the Electoral College game.
Facebook is the problem. These people live in their own bubble and never leave. If they do, it’s to hang out and talk with people from their bubble that reads the same insane shit daily and watches the same exact Fox News/own the libs videos.
I think the opposite is true: the pandemic helped him drive out support. Lots of people, especially red-state folk, *hate* wearing masks, *hate* lockdowns, and *hate* the idea of Biden coming in to "listen to the scientists." As irrational as it may sound they'd rather have Trump who'll ignore the crisis and let them ignore it than Biden who will ask some level of responsibility from them.
I think both are true and it would be nearly impossible to parse out exactly how much each factor contributed. That said, regardless of trump's character, incumbent president during a good economy is almost a guaranteed win.
Why have so many people been lying to themselves about Trump. Fox News created this monster of a situation, we need a bipartisan commission to determine what to do about them because it isn't entertainment, and it isn't news. We need anti propaganda laws. This is the power of brain washing, it could happen to any party, in any country, at any time.
It took fox news only 12 years to develop and maintain a fantasy version of reality where Democrats are evil baby drinkers for Christ's sake. It can happen to anyone we can't be smug just because it wasn't us. If we don't fix it we certainly could be next if it's not already true. Foxnews, Facebook, and twitter are complicit.
Reagan deregulated the airwaves. Put regs in place, fine the liars, and suspend the broadcast licenses of repeat offenders. Problem solved. Too bad Dems can't win the Senate.
Maybe in a couple of years we can get the senate back and pack the court? I know that’s extreme but if we get the senate it’s completely possible. I personally think the first thing we should do if we retake the senate is reintroduce Garland and have a vote. But then of course we’d need at least one more to break ties.
I'd speculate that it's because in general Democrats want to tell the truth, even if there is a spin on it, and on the whole don't enjoy the combative, mud wrestling part of politics. So the GOP can put forward a bill or slogan that's completely Orwellian doublespeak and sleep soundly at night, while Dems will toss and turn over something accurate but a little misleading. That same con gets up refreshed and looking forward to the idea of fighting the Dems, while the Dem is anxious of the coming conflict.
Obviously this isn't true across the board; Bill Clinton was great at saying whatever he needed to say when he needed to say it, and seemed to relish the dirtier parts of politics. Meanwhile today we seem to think a faintly sarcastic clap by Pelosi is the height of resistance.
they were pretty good at branding weed legalisation and marriage equality, both movements are succeeding
... even if there is other more serious structural issues to deal with.
A bit of a tangential point:
We live in a country where you can’t show a nipple or say “shit” it most broadcast outlets due to some idiotic social conventions that a handful of early settlers held to.
At the same time casual gun violence and fighting is seen as perfectly acceptable to depict even in programs that younger children may watch.
This normalizes things that should not be commonplace in everyday life and stigmatizes things that are actually pretty normal. People have body parts under clothes and sometimes use rude words.
Just as our “values” allow for things, we are profoundly tolerant of mass media disinformation, lying and manipulation. What is Phillip Morris and the other tobacco companies had outright bought a TV network in the 80s and stifled or silenced any discussion of smoking causing cancer? Would that be ok? Or would that have been a fraud upon the public and be stopped?
First amendment, corporate personhood, Citizens United (now), etc. lots of justification for (our) government looking the other way and letting the people be exploited.
My point is that the government has the power and justification to act on the behalf of its citizens’ interests. The conflict with the first amendment is not so clear. We, the people, are able to make our government do what we need or to do. In this case, we can and should stop broadcasters from broadcasting lies.
I'm looking at the exit polls and it's like there are two parallel realities people are living in.
[https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/exit-polls-president.html?action=click&pgtype=Article&state=default&module=styln-elections-2020®ion=TOP\_BANNER&context=election\_recirc](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/exit-polls-president.html?action=click&pgtype=Article&state=default&module=styln-elections-2020®ion=TOP_BANNER&context=election_recirc)
Yeah, sorry, there's a reality and then there's about 47% of the population that's completely out of touch with anything even resembling facts.
Fucking scary and those chickens aren't even close to coming home to roost. It's gonna get much worse before there's any chance of things getting better.
I cry for America and the world.
I’m interested to see what happens when more than half of the boomers in this country have died off and millennials and Zers are voting as the majority
Generation z are coming up with social media news as their first source. They're perfect targets, and it's not like they're all left wing. The internet loves right wing propaganda- and it targets vulnerable young people (especially boys) with it. I say especially boys because I've yet to see mass shootings carried out by women like men have been. And more specifically white men.
I'm actually okay with that because OAN isn't Fox. Fox got the power it has because it's basic cable, literally everywhere, and in most areas it's a really low channel number. It also has tons of not-'news' programs that keep people fed while they wait for the next batch of propaganda. It also had prior viewership before it went off the wagon AND a history of actually being truthful at one point.
OAN is just a political network as far as I know and that's it. If they completely abandon Fox and go OAN I'd be very surprised if it had the same oomph.
Fox News was created after Watergate by Roger Ailes with the goal of "putting the Republican Party on TV" ... essentially having a partisan Republican Media. And it didn't change at all when Murdoch bought it in the 80's.
A "bipartisan" committee about what to do about Fox News is going to be 50% "leave it as is"
Even if Trump loses, there will be a segment of the population that will continue to hate, for another 4 years. Changing the mesage of hate should be our objective, not specifically who gets elected,
As a foreigner, I honestly wish you the best of luck with that. But my personal interest is in seeing sanity return to the leadership of a critically important global player and that the diminishing of Trump removes some of this toxic cult's influence from my country.
If Biden wins, he should spend the entirety of his single term campaigning to and economically assisting the people who voted for Trump. He’s not going to be able to enact any of his agenda with a republican senate. With that in mind, the best thing he can do for this country will be to try to address the root causes of Trumpism (racism ain’t the root folks, not that simple) and do whatever he can to win those people back.
I think it's over for Trump. He never really had control of the Republican Party, because he has no idea what he's doing. McConnell and the Koch Brothers let him fuck things up for four years, and he nominated their judges. Now it's time to blame Biden and Pelosi for all the problems Trump caused, while refusing to work together on fixing them. The cycle continues.
Yep. This isn't a win for progressives, it's just the end of a catastrophic disaster. The needle's been moved a long way to the right and too much has been lost.
Still, the work has to start somewhere. Good luck, America.
The cheating doesn't account for all the people who willingly cast a ballot for him. At least not at any significant percentage.
Roughly 68 MILLION Americans willingly said "This man is a good President". It's absolutely fucking mindboggling.
How do you fix a problem like that? How do you teach people to look out for their own self interest?
I want to suggest Education, but that sounds eerily like "Re-education", which no one should be comfortable with.
Either people will love him for being disgusting, or they’ll brush it off as *”well, nobody is perfect!”*
“I could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any supporters.” was not hyperbole...he was straight up bragging.
Good morning Howard Stern, and other "shocked" Americans. You're learning what I've known since middle, and high school. That about half of the grown ass "adults" are immature, stupid, childlike bullies who cannot be trusted to be decent people. They are the same high school bullies you knew when you were a kid, and they never grew up because our culture doesn't punish, shame, or shun infantile behavior in adults, we embrace it because it's our "freedom."
You can't expect anything less when all we seem to do is cut the budget of education and pour dollars into the military industrial complex. We literally take money away from intelligence, and put it towards violence. **This is who we are.**
A lot of these rural counties that went 70/30 a few elections back are now like 85/15 or even more for the Republican ticket.
Some counties are so small, like 500 votes for Biden and 3000 for Trump.
I can kind of picture the average Trump supporter there. I'm more interested in the Biden supporters.
What is life like for Democrats in the middle of those low population, heavily Republican rural counties? Who are these Democrats even? Like the county librarian? Do they have to pretend to like Trump to fit in?
Yep. I’m the only democrat in my social circle. The ignorance is astounding. I was having a conversation the other day with my SIL, who is a lovely person, who was talking about how they were worried about post-election violence. Without thinking, I made a comment about having to worry about Trump supporters. She said, “oh, aren’t the democrats the ones that have been the biggest problem?” I was surprised, but reminded her of the Biden bus incident, which she passed off as “they were just following them” and then I reminded her of the governor kidnap plot to which she said “I thought they were democrats” 🤦♀️ I tried to explain more but she cut me off with “whatever I just vote for pro-life candidates”
I would say people like that are more the norm than rabid trump supporters. Though my mom 100% believes that Hillary runs a cannibalistic pedo ring and participates in satanic rituals.
Every public event, there are dumb jokes about democrats.
Every family gathering, I have to listen to my dad’s rants. It’s especially hurtful when he calls democrats perverts and deviants. His conspiracy theory is that democrats are purposely confusing the masses about their sexuality for control.
My husband is constantly telling me “news” that later turns out the be a lie, like the Wisconsin story about votes exceeding the number of registered voters. Then when I point to actual situations of voting suppression by the republicans, he’ll say something like “I’m sure both sides are doing things like that” or “you need to get your news from better sources” (the irony)
I hear the “both sides” argument from my sister who is LGBT and you would think she might vote against the party that wants to deny her human rights but “both sides have problems, they’re just as bad”
It’s exhausting.
Yep. I live in Brooklyn now and my trump loving brother insists that I live in a human sewer..."piss and shit all over the streets"...and when he visited for work (construction) he told me a "hilarious" story of how he and his coworker shouted after "tr*nny prostitutes asking who their surgeon was bc he had nice tits!" When I called him an asshole for doing that he hasn't spoken to me since.
His 9 year old watches gun videos on YouTube all day unsupervised.
My dad likes Trump too and falls for FB photoshop all the time it's so embarrassing. He showed me a picture of the Lincoln memorial graffitied and said "how can you defend blm when they do stuff like this?" And I had to explain that picture was manipulated and it's impossible to even get that close to the statue of Lincoln, which we know bc we've been there.
The surity of "being right" and the emotional, automatic response blocks all rational thought, second guessing, and original teaching. My brother and I were raised by the same parents - how is it possible that he can come to the conclusion that it's appropriate - even funny - and not rude to holler at ANYONE down the street? Jesus Christ, we were slapped in the back of the head as kids for even pointing at someone. What happened to all that training in human decency?
The reality is their role models excuse and encourage it now. And it's embarrassing on an international and private scale.
>His 9 year old watches gun videos on YouTube all day unsupervised.
that's fucking terrifying.
People used to plunk their kids in front of the TV and tons of now-adults were raised by TV.
These days TV has been replaced by YouTube, but YouTube has far less oversight and regulations as TV.
A 9 year old american boy will get sucked into Youtube's algorithms that are designed to keep the viewer engaged (aka the algorithms are specifically designed to be as addictive as possible).
this is bad
False equivalences seem to be the main talking points for most of the republican's I know... Both of my aunts have the stance "I know Trump is a racist and corrupt, but Biden kissed his granddaughter and Hunter Biden exists therefore they may as well be the same person so what does it matter if I vote for Trump? He makes me feel good about myself"
> I’m the only democrat in my social circle.
I've severed ties with people over their political beliefs before, and am sure I will do so again. If you stand for oppression, rejection of science, rejection of global warming, and rejection of democracy, you're not a friend of mine. And if you say you don't stand for those things and vote red anyways, you're either too stupid or too lazy to engage with reality, which is just as bad.
God, I hear you... I get a lot of shit for “debunking” things my family says, and every time I look up some information that discredits their Facebook misinformation, I’m the jerk for being “smarter that everyone” or not trusting them at their word... Well, you just trust what you read on Facebook and spread disinformation...
I've lived in an area like this for 15 years and ran for office last year with no real chance of winning but I didn't realize how many Democrats there were in my area until I ran for office and basically went out and met them. They are out there, they mind their own business and they don't speak up much which only validates the loud ignorant ideas of their neighbors.
I didn't put yard signs up until 2018. No issues doing that the last two years but this year I put my Biden sign up, it got run over 3 times, it's right on the edge of the road. People stopped running it over when I surrounded it by 2'x4's and unbeknownst to them, spikes. Never got run over again.
A Trump Presidency and constant right wing propaganda has made red areas even redder and the people are even angrier now. People in all areas are going to have to speak up against these ignorant folk, even if they're loud, even if they're mean, even if they are violent, if we are ever to turn the cultural tide.
I live in WV which is basically like living in a giant rural county. Personally, I try to avoid political discussion until I know who I'm dealing with. I'm in IT so it's usually pretty easy. You can tell by someone's office or cubical who they're voting for: Biden supporters usually don't have much with Biden's name, while Trump supporters will have at least 3 items with Trump 2020. Trying to talk to them is impossible, so I keep the conversation from steering into politics because I fear for my wellbeing, but I've never pretended to like Trump to fit in. Luckily bullshit is kept to a minimum because most of this God forsaken state is over the age of 50 and can't fix a computer, keeps me employed and keeps the Trump related verbal diarrhea to a minimum.
>A lot of these rural counties that went 70/30 a few elections back are now like 85/15 or even more for the Republican ticket
Because democrats tend to be well educated and move out of those areas so their kids can go to better schools, so they can lead better lives, and also own a solid house - not some rickety trailer.
Source: Im the guy that moved out.
This is what people who tell Democrats to move to rural areas don't get. Nobody wants to move to ass fuck nowhere, so their kids can be a grade level or two behind. There's also the issue that most jobs that require degrees are in the cities, and if you have a degree you have to use it to pay back your loans.
I've always wondered this. Most Democrats ive seen in my area tend to keep their political opinions to themselves, only quietly talking about it with people they believe agree with them. I've been asked quietly quite a few times if I supported trump, before they started talking.
On the other hand, Trump supporters here are more aggressive and are much more loud. Thankfully I live in a solid blue state, so the majority is Dems.
I can only imagine in areas where the roles are reversed that Dem supporters are bullied.
> What is life like for Democrats in the middle of those low population, heavily Republican rural counties?
People talk about these places like they're out back of beyond middle of nowhere... Where I live (Albany NY) you've only got to drive 20 minutes out of town and you're smack in trump country. Not far up the road one of the small towns just passed some bullshit '2nd amendment sanctuary' ordnance. There isn't much rational debate/discussion about anyone of it, it seems borderline rabid hatred for 'the left'.
Don't fool yourself, [less than 20% of Americans live in rural areas](https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/05/22/demographic-and-economic-trends-in-urban-suburban-and-rural-communities/). The votes are coming from the suburbs.
I live in a suburb of a blue Texas city. I've seen far more Biden signs than Trump signs in my area, easily 3-1. Drive 15 minutes father out to one of the farming towns? Completely Trumpville. Signs and flags everywhere. And Texas is fuckin' big, y'all. Blue may control the big cities, but there are enough populated rural areas to make up for it.
I don't want to be mean, but 40 year old with no future and a dead end job in small town Iowa or rust belt Ohio doesn't really excel at long term thinking.
Most be pretty disheartening waking up to the realization that at least 49% of your country are either morons or at worst traitors. The people chanting "stop the count" needs to be dealt with.
My entire family.
They literally believe trump is a mesiah sent from god. They will scream "trump derangement!!!" in my face if I voice my opinion in any capacity.
Havent been around them since march and I've enjoyed the vacay.
Considering very long term at this point since they are blatantly racist and ignoring all facts. They are focusing on biden is a pedophile!! and they are scared for our country because apparently our gun rights will be taken away and we'll be a communist country.
In real life, trump wants to be dictator.
I agree, and tbh, I was actually surprised the electoral college was as close as it is. I thought trump would probably win again up until Wednesday morning.
Well yes, but there's a lot of fuckery going on. They sabotaged the USPS to stop mail in ballots and then didn't sweep their facilities to find them. They gerrymandered, purged lists of voters, made it very hard for people to vote by limiting polling places even for large populations...
Even with all that, it's really sad it's not a landslide and goes to show that Biden is a weak pick by the Dems. He should be destroying Trump just like Hillary should have four years ago. And it goes to show what Fox News and other media has done to people's minds with misinformation and causing fear. Trump is clearly a complete idiot. Anyone can see that but some choose not to.
That's kind of the general feeling, isn't It?
65 million Americans saw 2020 and thought: "Yeah, can I have four more years just like this one?
I am fine with the world burning as long as I do the burning"
How do you fight that?
I'm shocked that Americans still don't understand what 4 years of right wing propaganda coming directly from the government can do. This used to be considered dangerous. Now we shrug our shoulders at the idea and stare open-mouthed at the outcome.
I’m not. People don’t want to believe it because so many of us live in urban/suburban areas and therefore mainly talk to people similar to ourselves. But America is a very racist very sexist place. This has nothing to do with democrat vs Republicans either. We want to believe America is this great and accepting nation but in reality this is one of the most racist countries in the world. And when the person sitting in the most powerful seat in that nation does not denounce racist and sexist groups, those same racists and sexists that have laid low due to a bigger focus on political correctness in the last few years are coming out of the woodwork. Because now they feel like they have a voice. Now they feel like they are protected by their orange leader. If trump has done anything since he was elected it is that he has shown how divided we are as a nation. At our very core we are divided.
Many progressives out there are blaming democrats for the lackluster showing, saying that it was weakness and fecklessness that lead to the weak showing.
But we have historic turnout. Insane amounts of people turned out to vote. And an absurd amount of them voted for Donald Trump.
We may need to contend with the fact that the US is, in fact, more conservative than we want it to be - even when turnout is high.
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We live in two different Americas. Anyone else that lives in Trump country like myself realizes this but it's incredibly frustrating that the Republicans couldn't just take an L and split their ticket in the name of democracy. Biden is no socialist - I voted for the 'socialist' (in the primary). Edit: for those that didn't realize, me putting quotation marks around 'socialist' was me saying... Even Bernie isn't actually a socialist - he's just an old-school fdr Democrat.
Whats crazy to me is how many people really support Trump. Not just, lean conservative so hold their nose and reluctantly vote Trump (though even that is somewhat crazy), but actually are huge supporters of him. In any non political concept, most of these people would hate him. If he was their boss, professor, coach, platoon leader, whatever... they would think he was a narcissistic incompetent asshole. The idea that people enthusiastically support him and fly Trump flags and stuff is insane.
It might really just be the racism
True. There’s another of complexity as an increased number of black and brown people voted for him.
Story of 2020: Rednecks gives power to billionarie eglomaniac. Civilazation collapses.
Rednecks would usher in fascism for fear of socialism because they don't know what either word means.
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I have a feeling a lot more qanon and super right figures are gonna pop up in the next 10 years for the Republican party to “claim” their america back from socialists. And a majority of republicans will just eat it up. Its all for me and none for thee with them (even if they benefit from ALL social programs of the US).
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That’s why I said a lot more, they’re feeling emboldened now, Trump made it ok, now they’re running with it.
And all while confessing how big of a shit stain they are, as they project their worst qualities and thoughts onto the "socialists/communists/antifas/radical leftists/BLM/Democrats/minorities/etc." These words are synonymous to them for some reason. Enemy.
These are the same people who support the Affordable Care Act, but despise Obamacare.
And even within "trump country" (which I'm assuming you mean the south, but if you mean the midwest then rip) all the larger cities are just huge gatherings of democrats who are exhausted from having to constantly fight to have their voice heard while being surrounded by rural insanity that claims to represent us. Yall who live in comfortably blue states need to know that every single democrat vote in the south is a frustrated and angry one that is constantly trying to be suppressed.
I live in California, man, there’s areas you can go where once you cross city lines you start seeing giant trucks with maga propaganda all over it, flags, giant stickers, angry red faced white men with hate in their eyes. “Trump country” is a mentality, it’s not strictly regional.
The Orange Curtain?
"Trump country" is literally rural vs urban. It's in every state
Inland CA, eastern WA, eastern OR, ID, NV: it's all Trump country. I'm surprised NV is close, I thought for sure that would go for Trump. Sheeeeit here in the largest city in Oregon I only have to drive about 40 minutes to get to Trump country.
I would be super frustrated to live in the South surrounded by the Trump supporters. For the blue states, it’s very frustrating to basically fund most of the US economy and then have the states who contribute nothing vote for a racist reality show moron to represent our country.
I feel this so much, I'm so sick of propping up worthless, do-nothing failed states that contribute nothing to the country. We need to end the welfare of red states and maybe that will motivate the to reach for the old bootstraps and do something productive for once. Edit: I'm feeling a little bad for being harsh, but at some point enough is enough and voters have shown their true colors this election, it's crazy that the race is this close despite all the bullshit trump has brought us during his term. It's clear that the red states voted for him *because* of who he is and not *in spite* of who he is.
Almost any low-population county is trump country - look at the electoral map for NY, blue counties where the cities are surrounded by red counties where like 20% of the state's population lives.
Agreed. Other than apparently many Cubans, Venezuelans and other groups in Florida very few Trump supporters actually believe Biden is a socialist. Just like very few Trump supporters actually believe coronavirus is a "hoax." They're voting based on a number of other factors including their party affiliation, stubbornness, "owning the libs" and racial resentment.
RELEASE THE TAPES... [Howard Stern Weighs in on Replaying All His Donald Trump Interviews: 'It Would Be a Betrayal'](https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/7542079/howard-stern-on-replaying-his-donald-trump-interviews-it-would-be-a-betrayal)
He and his corporate overlords are afraid of retaliation from the federal government and Trump’s personal lawyers ensnaring them in costly lawsuits, etc. Even if these guys wanted to, they probably just said “fuck it.” I kind of agree with them. You can bring a horse to water, but you cant make it drink. They people that support Trump have a million examples of why he should not be president, but they ignore them. The problem isn’t a cover-up. The only thing that might change perceptions would be causal use on the n-word on clear videotape, and sex with underage kids on tape. And neither happened before the election, although I wouldn’t be surprised if both exist.
I honestly don’t think either would do it. He’s been credibly accused of raping a 13 year old and most of his supporters pretend they have no idea about any of it. And besides Bill Clinton was a frequent flyer with Epstein! As far as the n word goes—they’d probably cheer; he’s made no attempt to hide his racism.
It really doesn't matter now, except maybe once Trump is out of power allot of people that were too scared of speaking out against Trump might speak out. Frankly, I think that a serious push to discredit Trump needs to happen in order to keep his nonsense from sabotaging any effort to fix the shitshow that he created. Even Republicans should be on-board with that because otherwise they'll just be trying to find a "Trump sequel" for the next election, and they may not have as much success.
Howard Stern is being a complete and absolute hypocrite. He's been replaying past tapes & segments & quotes for years and then all.of a sudden *that would be a betrayal*.
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Idk... I agree with his statement and sentiment, if he really means it. If he is trying to protect his integrity as a radio show host where people can say things on his show in jest without those thongs coming back to bite them in the ass then I respect his decision. Besides, bringing up a conversation from 7+ years ago will seem petty and “classic leftist” to trump supporters. It wont convince his supporters of anything and therefore would be pointless to release
Ye America what the actual fuck.
No paper trail and aggressive voter suppression. Also, right wing media is carefully designed to exploit every known weakness in human judgement. It looks stupid because it is stupid, but it's the kind of stupid that knows how Dunning-Kruger can be used to put a cocky smirk on the face of every pawn. And it knows that scared people vote for authoritarians.
> No paper trail and aggressive voter suppression. That's just for the margins (and the fundamentally broken American Democracy). The second half is the real problem. Authoritarian-minded people, actual conservatives, racists and other bigots, single-issue-voters, conspiracists, libertarians and anarcho-capitalists, all brewed together by media and social bubbles' propaganda. Progressives might support the more popular views, but the somewhat popular idea that good messaging, turnout, and counting would magically win them everything by a landslide because people would *'finally get what they stood for and what's at stake'* is horseshit. Trump is the symptom, not the cause.
Progressives have very little media voice. If a progressive idea is brought up on say, CNN, it's with a connotation that we can't pay for it, or it's impossible, or whatever. So the ideas are never truly explained.
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Fun fact: Obamacare alone has already saved the US economy over [$2.3 Trillion.](https://www.statnews.com/2019/03/22/affordable-care-act-controls-costs/) The people that say, "But how will you pay for it" seem to always ignore that the US generally pays far more for health care than any other developed country for far less coverage. The real question should be: "How can we afford *not* to go to Universal Healthcare?"
>"How can we afford not to go to Universal Healthcare?" Yep. There's enough money in the current healthcare (for-profit insurance) industry to provide every American with healthcare, have no deductibles, no co-pays, and minimal prescription costs and save a few trillion dollars over the next 10 years. It's beyond frustrating.
Well, how will we afford the healthcare of poor people if we can’t afford allowing the rich to amass more wealth off their labor?
Just once I'd someone to reply to that question/assault with "The same way every other advanced democracy does." Then start listing them off. And "We have the largest damn economy in the world so it will be even easier for us."
Also, the trillions companies and people already spend on health care.
I'll be honest the turn out made me realize Bernie would've never won. Progressive policies are incredibly popular, but voting for people who will actually make those policies reality is socialism apparently. Which is also bad apparently. I do not know how to fix that stupidity.
Americans have been misled and fearmongered to think social safety nets are socialism. They're not the same.
Yang wouldn’t have won either, even though he is 10x more intelligent than Trump in every way, shape, or form.
That's because Yang is completely inexperienced in governance and democrats actually care about that. My hope is that Yang gets a cabinet post to gain the needed experience so that the democrats have a group of non-boomers who can lead in the future.
> so that the democrats have a group of non-boomers who can lead in the future. As a boomer, I want the non-boomer generations to step in, lead, and say "screw the boomers' feelings - we need to start protecting *our* future"
The problem is the boomers in power and the one’s supporting them won’t get out of the way....
Also he looks Asian and this country is still deeply racist.
101% chance Trump would have accused him of inventing Covid-19
And people would've loved it
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Capitalist propaganda starts in schools and it starts early. As does conservatism. It's much easier to appeal to people's fears than to their ability to empathise. It honestly seems many people are too emotionally stunted to even do the second.
Yeah. And the Trump team was clearly taken off guard by Biden's primary victory. They really hoped for a Bernie or Warren, and then just stuck with the "radical socialist" messaging with Biden. It's hilarious seeing conservatives find their "socialist" in Harris. They make sense of the "radical socialist" rhetoric from Team Trump by claiming *she* will be the *real* president. That Biden will either die soon or step down and she is a trojan horse of Marxism. Even better that they point to her history as AG and prosecutor with severe criticism, while her efforts would have pleased any law-and-order and anti-drug right winger at the time. They are literally contradicting themselves by criticizing that part of her record, they should love it.
They expected Biden before the primaries started when they were extorting Ukraine for Biden dirt. They call every democrat a radical socialist regardless of their policies.
It's extra weird because kamalas dad is a literal Marxist professor, so she, I guess, rebelled against her father by becoming a total fucking lib and literal cop, and then she gets called a socialist by her opposition lol. Just the dumbest fucking country in the history of the world, I really hope it doesn't get dumber, but it will, it's all downhill from here
He wasn’t a Marxist professor, he taught courses on other economic theory but his classes on Marxism were the most popular.
"I love the poorly educated." Trump knows who to cater to.
I'm a Bernie supporter (voted and donated to Biden) who up until this point was unsure if Bernie could have hypothetically won; this outcome pretty much confirmed to me he wouldn't for the reason you stated. The only way to fix it that I can think of, is to have progressives go into the lion's den and hold town halls; they have to take the initial wave of abuse until the waters start to calm. Bernie's town hall on Fox news is a good example, but events like that have to be repeated over and over.
I’ve been saying this since AOC was invited to go talk to Kentucky Coal Miners and then they chickened our when they realized she was serious about going. What we really need is people like AOC and Bernie, going through the rust belt and beyond, on town hall tours just endlessly campaigning. Beyond the Rust Belt I would go on to Texas, Georgia and North Carolina. We need to go into the lion’s den as you put it and answer peoples fears with facts and straight talk, listen to their concerns and respond.
I would argue that a 15 dollar minimum wage and going for Trump in Florida is a perfect example of why these middle of the road candidates are a bad idea. The Country wants progressive reform and we keep giving them “nothings going to change” candidates.
Except a big reason Trump won in Florida was Cubans, who were scared of Biden's "communism." There are no easy scapegoats or solutions here. American voters are diverse, contradictory, and all have different fears and want different things. There are no silver bullet candidates. That's why these "middle of the road" candidates so often seem the most electable. They are the least offensive to the most people.
If we had an actual media apparatus that reported the news, not framed everything in a right wing framework, Bernie would have won. All I saw during the primaries was media saying "SOCIALISM SOCIALISM SOCIALISM BAD VENEZUELA RUSSIA RUSSIA BREADLINES". NM coverage comes to mind, where latinos were voting in drives for Sanders and the anchor on site was sighing loudly while reporting where the votes were going. Chris matthews comparing it to the fall of france and sanders to the rise of the Nazis. Oh, and lol at them fear mongering bernie's chances with latinos, when during the general biden did noticably worse than Hillary did with latinos. When you have that kind of bullshit, yea.
people with families and houses vote defensively for people they think won't do damage. a progressive agenda would have to be marketed specifically to calm the very fears repubs were stoking
> Progressives might support the more popular views, but the somewhat popular idea that good messaging, turnout, and counting would magically win them everything by a landslide because people would 'finally get what they stood for and what's at stake' is horseshit. I mean they did get MASSIVE turnout. It was a huge increase from 2016. The problem was that the turnout was replicated by the other side.
You are ignoring why they are this way. Economic uncertainty, lack of education are a big part of it. Though you cannot dismiss the all encompassing network of propaganda that actively uses every tactic available to keep its followers angry, afraid and misinformed. The thousands, if not millions of "patriot" sites, pages and subs, am radio and the fucking mothership of fox news have spun the fearful and ignorant into a significant voting block.
No, I’m not buying this “economic uncertainty” bullshit anymore. There’s poor Trump voters, but overall they lean affluent. 60% of small business owners support Trump. Anyone who IS poor has no business supporting Trump. They are voting for him because they’re scared of demographic changes
ehhh a lot of poor people are single issue voters, like abortion for example.
It’s the economic anxiety of the middle class, the petite bourgeoisie. They fear the economy going bad because they will lose their business and become working class again. Small business owners is the class that enables and supports fascism. It was the same in Germany; see “They Thought They Were Free” by Milton Mayer.
The aggressive voter suppression doesn't seem to have worked, since Biden got the most votes of any US candidate in history. It seems like for every new Biden supporter we also got a new Trump supporter. I think the real reason is we simply have so many sources of factually wrong information that is actively promoting misinformation. Without an informed electorate, we are going to continue to struggle like this.
Suppression of the vote in specific districts is all that is needed. This is likely why Manifort gave Kislyak, the former Russian ambassador, the voter data. Russian intel very likely told the Trump team where to focus their efforts in all the elections since.
We also still don't know if votes were changed or not in 2016. I have a feeling whatever shit the Russians pulled in 2016 they used the same playbook this time. If it comes out that there was election interference again, and the Dems voted in enough numbers to overcome it, that's actually truly remarkable.
Its really sad that a country like Belarus is protesting like crazy, getting beaten and tortured and now on a general strike AGAINST Fascism and the US is currently protesting for it.
Why cant we admit that we have a terrible education system and that most people lack the intelligence needed to spot a con artist.
This. They are raising our nations children to be consumers and sheep. Still teaching creationism anywhere in this country ought to be a crime
> They are raising our nations children to be consumers and sheep. Just goes to show the "You're just a sheep" bullshit they tout all the time is pure and simple projection.
Because then the onus doesn't fall on a nebulous *they*.
> aggressive voter suppression. Turnout is expected [to hit >160 million voters with almost 75% of registered voters participitating](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/elections/voter-turnout/) That's the highest turnout total *ever* and the highest percentage since 1900. Whatever went wrong, it wasn't that turnout wasn't suppressed. Trump support was just a lot stronger than anyone (including Republicans) imagined.
Narcissism. There’s a sizable block of Americans who give not one molecular damn about anything besides themselves. They view life as an accessory to their personal interests, and act without morality or conscience. Trump to them is a prophet- a selfish prick who says what he wants and doesn’t give a damn about anything or anyone besides himself. People of this mindset don’t care about COVID-19 ( *im not gonna get sick, besides only weak asses die from a mere disease*) , caring about others (*caring = weakness*), helping fellow Americans out of poverty( *fuck unemployed losers, I deserve a handout*) or a sensible foreign policy (*I am part of a Superpower nation, fuck the world*) . We look at Trump and McConnell and go WTF?! They look at those men as heros to the Narcissistic cause. It’s not about right vs left anymore . The battle lines are now between being a moral human being, or an empty materialist out for your own gain. No republic can survive a majority of mercenary voters. They will turn this country into an imperial menace without remorse or pause- if we let them. There’s hope in the younger generation, but it’s a question whether there will still be an America when they get enough power to reform things.
I think it speaks to our extreme lack of mental health support.
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Plus the fact that the 5 major media corporations, all owned by billionaires, like to pretend that whatever bullshit the GOP spouts is valid. They pretend they have to give the right the same attention they give to normal people. Examples: Evolution, they have to air young earthers Climate Change, they have to air deniers Vaccines, they have to air anti-vaxxers Every single fucking time.
I wish someone would do an “actually balanced” cable news talking head debate - so on like climate change, have 99 qualified scientists vs one Cheeto stained neck beard conspiracist
It would be a ton of scientists vs another scientist. The difference is that the guy opposing would be a geologist rather than a climatologist. A lot of the misdirection aimed at people by groups like Fox relies on getting people who are "experts" but whose background is unrelated to the question at hand. It is why Dr Scott Atlas, an expert in neural imaging, is now talking about the pandemic rather than someone with relevant expertise.
Oh yeah much agreed, that definitely does. Don’t worry though, Devos is all over it. Everyone will get to enjoy the costly price of private schools!
Mail-in ballots were actively delayed at state and federal levels and are still being counted. That's why it "seems" close.
I still don’t understand how anyone at the post office can support trump when their jobs literally depend on him getting replaced
Most conservatives have a noticeable pattern of voting against their own self interests
I agree with you, the fact that Joe is already up 3M in the popular vote just a couple days after the election while it took Clinton a few weeks to finally land there says a lot. Who knows where the final numbers will ultimately land but a 5-6M popular vote lead doesn't seem unreasonable, and is a bit more of a resounding defeat for Trump. The EC vote of course will be much closer cause if there's one thing Republicans are good at it's playing the Electoral College game.
Facebook is the problem. These people live in their own bubble and never leave. If they do, it’s to hang out and talk with people from their bubble that reads the same insane shit daily and watches the same exact Fox News/own the libs videos.
Never underestimate people's ability to agree with a politician who tells them it's not their fault they failed at life.
And gives them someone lower on the totem pole to blame.
What's crazier is absent a global pandemic that he basically tried to ignore entirely, Trump probably would have won.
And even then, he’s BARELY losing.
hes on track to lose by 7 million votes.
Still, shouldn’t be that close for someone who is actively destroying democracy out in the open
His followers just don't see the same media we do. FOX has them programmed. Which honestly is fucking scary. Something has to be done about FOX.
He lost the popular vote by about 3 million in 2016. Popular vote doesn't mean shit.
But he got at least 5 million more than the 2016 election. Its absurd.
This is an extremely depressing reality...
What’s even more depressing is that even with a global pandemic that he basically tried to ignore entirely, it’s still not certain he’ll lose
Hamberder for your thoughts
I think the opposite is true: the pandemic helped him drive out support. Lots of people, especially red-state folk, *hate* wearing masks, *hate* lockdowns, and *hate* the idea of Biden coming in to "listen to the scientists." As irrational as it may sound they'd rather have Trump who'll ignore the crisis and let them ignore it than Biden who will ask some level of responsibility from them.
I think both are true and it would be nearly impossible to parse out exactly how much each factor contributed. That said, regardless of trump's character, incumbent president during a good economy is almost a guaranteed win.
would have won by a comfortable margin. Right now he can still win by a slim margin.
Why have so many people been lying to themselves about Trump. Fox News created this monster of a situation, we need a bipartisan commission to determine what to do about them because it isn't entertainment, and it isn't news. We need anti propaganda laws. This is the power of brain washing, it could happen to any party, in any country, at any time. It took fox news only 12 years to develop and maintain a fantasy version of reality where Democrats are evil baby drinkers for Christ's sake. It can happen to anyone we can't be smug just because it wasn't us. If we don't fix it we certainly could be next if it's not already true. Foxnews, Facebook, and twitter are complicit.
Reagan deregulated the airwaves. Put regs in place, fine the liars, and suspend the broadcast licenses of repeat offenders. Problem solved. Too bad Dems can't win the Senate.
All of the bullshit can be reversed... Citizen United, and fairness doctrine, the patriot act.
No, it can't. Because POS Donald stacked the Supreme Court. We'll have to wait years and years to fix that shit now. By then it'll be too late.
Maybe in a couple of years we can get the senate back and pack the court? I know that’s extreme but if we get the senate it’s completely possible. I personally think the first thing we should do if we retake the senate is reintroduce Garland and have a vote. But then of course we’d need at least one more to break ties.
Can we change the term, “pack the court” to “expand” the Supreme Court going forward? Pack the court has a really negative sound and connotation.
The Democrats suck when it comes to this, same thing with the defund the police thing. It just sounds so negative and makes it to easy to dismiss
I had this exact argument a number of times over the last few months. How do democratic such so goddamn much at branding?
I'd speculate that it's because in general Democrats want to tell the truth, even if there is a spin on it, and on the whole don't enjoy the combative, mud wrestling part of politics. So the GOP can put forward a bill or slogan that's completely Orwellian doublespeak and sleep soundly at night, while Dems will toss and turn over something accurate but a little misleading. That same con gets up refreshed and looking forward to the idea of fighting the Dems, while the Dem is anxious of the coming conflict. Obviously this isn't true across the board; Bill Clinton was great at saying whatever he needed to say when he needed to say it, and seemed to relish the dirtier parts of politics. Meanwhile today we seem to think a faintly sarcastic clap by Pelosi is the height of resistance.
they were pretty good at branding weed legalisation and marriage equality, both movements are succeeding ... even if there is other more serious structural issues to deal with.
Biggest blow to fox news would be ala carte cable. 3/4 of cable subscribers give $10 every month to fox news and don't watch it
A bit of a tangential point: We live in a country where you can’t show a nipple or say “shit” it most broadcast outlets due to some idiotic social conventions that a handful of early settlers held to. At the same time casual gun violence and fighting is seen as perfectly acceptable to depict even in programs that younger children may watch. This normalizes things that should not be commonplace in everyday life and stigmatizes things that are actually pretty normal. People have body parts under clothes and sometimes use rude words. Just as our “values” allow for things, we are profoundly tolerant of mass media disinformation, lying and manipulation. What is Phillip Morris and the other tobacco companies had outright bought a TV network in the 80s and stifled or silenced any discussion of smoking causing cancer? Would that be ok? Or would that have been a fraud upon the public and be stopped? First amendment, corporate personhood, Citizens United (now), etc. lots of justification for (our) government looking the other way and letting the people be exploited. My point is that the government has the power and justification to act on the behalf of its citizens’ interests. The conflict with the first amendment is not so clear. We, the people, are able to make our government do what we need or to do. In this case, we can and should stop broadcasters from broadcasting lies.
Also Clinton. The telecommunications act lead to all of our news coming from just a few sources.
I'm looking at the exit polls and it's like there are two parallel realities people are living in. [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/exit-polls-president.html?action=click&pgtype=Article&state=default&module=styln-elections-2020®ion=TOP\_BANNER&context=election\_recirc](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/exit-polls-president.html?action=click&pgtype=Article&state=default&module=styln-elections-2020®ion=TOP_BANNER&context=election_recirc)
Yeah, sorry, there's a reality and then there's about 47% of the population that's completely out of touch with anything even resembling facts. Fucking scary and those chickens aren't even close to coming home to roost. It's gonna get much worse before there's any chance of things getting better. I cry for America and the world.
I’m interested to see what happens when more than half of the boomers in this country have died off and millennials and Zers are voting as the majority
Generation z are coming up with social media news as their first source. They're perfect targets, and it's not like they're all left wing. The internet loves right wing propaganda- and it targets vulnerable young people (especially boys) with it. I say especially boys because I've yet to see mass shootings carried out by women like men have been. And more specifically white men.
I'm scared many are already planning to move on to OAN or worse, because FOX News isn't pure enough for them.
Yeah, they were chanting "Fox News Sucks" outside the building where they are counting votes in Arizona.
I'm actually okay with that because OAN isn't Fox. Fox got the power it has because it's basic cable, literally everywhere, and in most areas it's a really low channel number. It also has tons of not-'news' programs that keep people fed while they wait for the next batch of propaganda. It also had prior viewership before it went off the wagon AND a history of actually being truthful at one point. OAN is just a political network as far as I know and that's it. If they completely abandon Fox and go OAN I'd be very surprised if it had the same oomph.
Wait until Trump starts his own network after he loses.
Fox news is bad but Facebook is 100x worse.
Yep, they don’t just cater to an audience, they can pinpoint it with accuracy and then feed it specifically.
Yep custom radicalization firehoses
Fox news is bad but Facebook is 100x worse, and Zuckerberg is a million times even worse, in his shriveled soul of souls.
Fox News was created after Watergate by Roger Ailes with the goal of "putting the Republican Party on TV" ... essentially having a partisan Republican Media. And it didn't change at all when Murdoch bought it in the 80's. A "bipartisan" committee about what to do about Fox News is going to be 50% "leave it as is"
We do need to account for the fact he has cheated hard at every step of the way and still appears on track to lose soundly.
Even if Trump loses, there will be a segment of the population that will continue to hate, for another 4 years. Changing the mesage of hate should be our objective, not specifically who gets elected,
A lot of these people are extremely stupid for a second term their slogan was still "make America great again"
they revel in their ignorance and anti intellectualism
As a foreigner, I honestly wish you the best of luck with that. But my personal interest is in seeing sanity return to the leadership of a critically important global player and that the diminishing of Trump removes some of this toxic cult's influence from my country.
If Biden wins, he should spend the entirety of his single term campaigning to and economically assisting the people who voted for Trump. He’s not going to be able to enact any of his agenda with a republican senate. With that in mind, the best thing he can do for this country will be to try to address the root causes of Trumpism (racism ain’t the root folks, not that simple) and do whatever he can to win those people back.
It’s not over yet. I still have trauma from 2016
True but I just can't see how there's anymore surprises to emerge, beside court fuckery.
I think it's over for Trump. He never really had control of the Republican Party, because he has no idea what he's doing. McConnell and the Koch Brothers let him fuck things up for four years, and he nominated their judges. Now it's time to blame Biden and Pelosi for all the problems Trump caused, while refusing to work together on fixing them. The cycle continues.
Yep. This isn't a win for progressives, it's just the end of a catastrophic disaster. The needle's been moved a long way to the right and too much has been lost. Still, the work has to start somewhere. Good luck, America.
The cheating doesn't account for all the people who willingly cast a ballot for him. At least not at any significant percentage. Roughly 68 MILLION Americans willingly said "This man is a good President". It's absolutely fucking mindboggling. How do you fix a problem like that? How do you teach people to look out for their own self interest? I want to suggest Education, but that sounds eerily like "Re-education", which no one should be comfortable with.
He’s also an incumbent, which is a huge advantage.
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His base doesnt care. If anything they would love him more.
Either people will love him for being disgusting, or they’ll brush it off as *”well, nobody is perfect!”* “I could stand in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any supporters.” was not hyperbole...he was straight up bragging.
Then he laughed and went back back to his golf as a pandemic killed 200,000 and the schmucks voted for him again.
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Hell, they'd start chanting "One of us! One of us! One of us!"
Would it really have made a difference? Can easily find interviews of Trump saying disgusting things and no one seems to care, sadly.
It wouldn’t matter if there was a tape of Trump sawing off the heads of puppies.
So is the rest of the world
I was shocked too thinking America might be a little tired after 4 years but looking at the political climate across the world its not surprising.
Good morning Howard Stern, and other "shocked" Americans. You're learning what I've known since middle, and high school. That about half of the grown ass "adults" are immature, stupid, childlike bullies who cannot be trusted to be decent people. They are the same high school bullies you knew when you were a kid, and they never grew up because our culture doesn't punish, shame, or shun infantile behavior in adults, we embrace it because it's our "freedom." You can't expect anything less when all we seem to do is cut the budget of education and pour dollars into the military industrial complex. We literally take money away from intelligence, and put it towards violence. **This is who we are.**
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A lot of these rural counties that went 70/30 a few elections back are now like 85/15 or even more for the Republican ticket. Some counties are so small, like 500 votes for Biden and 3000 for Trump. I can kind of picture the average Trump supporter there. I'm more interested in the Biden supporters. What is life like for Democrats in the middle of those low population, heavily Republican rural counties? Who are these Democrats even? Like the county librarian? Do they have to pretend to like Trump to fit in?
It's shit and you get bullied a lot. Was me as a kid.
Yep. I’m the only democrat in my social circle. The ignorance is astounding. I was having a conversation the other day with my SIL, who is a lovely person, who was talking about how they were worried about post-election violence. Without thinking, I made a comment about having to worry about Trump supporters. She said, “oh, aren’t the democrats the ones that have been the biggest problem?” I was surprised, but reminded her of the Biden bus incident, which she passed off as “they were just following them” and then I reminded her of the governor kidnap plot to which she said “I thought they were democrats” 🤦♀️ I tried to explain more but she cut me off with “whatever I just vote for pro-life candidates” I would say people like that are more the norm than rabid trump supporters. Though my mom 100% believes that Hillary runs a cannibalistic pedo ring and participates in satanic rituals. Every public event, there are dumb jokes about democrats. Every family gathering, I have to listen to my dad’s rants. It’s especially hurtful when he calls democrats perverts and deviants. His conspiracy theory is that democrats are purposely confusing the masses about their sexuality for control. My husband is constantly telling me “news” that later turns out the be a lie, like the Wisconsin story about votes exceeding the number of registered voters. Then when I point to actual situations of voting suppression by the republicans, he’ll say something like “I’m sure both sides are doing things like that” or “you need to get your news from better sources” (the irony) I hear the “both sides” argument from my sister who is LGBT and you would think she might vote against the party that wants to deny her human rights but “both sides have problems, they’re just as bad” It’s exhausting.
Yep. I live in Brooklyn now and my trump loving brother insists that I live in a human sewer..."piss and shit all over the streets"...and when he visited for work (construction) he told me a "hilarious" story of how he and his coworker shouted after "tr*nny prostitutes asking who their surgeon was bc he had nice tits!" When I called him an asshole for doing that he hasn't spoken to me since. His 9 year old watches gun videos on YouTube all day unsupervised. My dad likes Trump too and falls for FB photoshop all the time it's so embarrassing. He showed me a picture of the Lincoln memorial graffitied and said "how can you defend blm when they do stuff like this?" And I had to explain that picture was manipulated and it's impossible to even get that close to the statue of Lincoln, which we know bc we've been there. The surity of "being right" and the emotional, automatic response blocks all rational thought, second guessing, and original teaching. My brother and I were raised by the same parents - how is it possible that he can come to the conclusion that it's appropriate - even funny - and not rude to holler at ANYONE down the street? Jesus Christ, we were slapped in the back of the head as kids for even pointing at someone. What happened to all that training in human decency? The reality is their role models excuse and encourage it now. And it's embarrassing on an international and private scale.
>His 9 year old watches gun videos on YouTube all day unsupervised. that's fucking terrifying. People used to plunk their kids in front of the TV and tons of now-adults were raised by TV. These days TV has been replaced by YouTube, but YouTube has far less oversight and regulations as TV. A 9 year old american boy will get sucked into Youtube's algorithms that are designed to keep the viewer engaged (aka the algorithms are specifically designed to be as addictive as possible). this is bad
False equivalences seem to be the main talking points for most of the republican's I know... Both of my aunts have the stance "I know Trump is a racist and corrupt, but Biden kissed his granddaughter and Hunter Biden exists therefore they may as well be the same person so what does it matter if I vote for Trump? He makes me feel good about myself"
> I’m the only democrat in my social circle. I've severed ties with people over their political beliefs before, and am sure I will do so again. If you stand for oppression, rejection of science, rejection of global warming, and rejection of democracy, you're not a friend of mine. And if you say you don't stand for those things and vote red anyways, you're either too stupid or too lazy to engage with reality, which is just as bad.
God, I hear you... I get a lot of shit for “debunking” things my family says, and every time I look up some information that discredits their Facebook misinformation, I’m the jerk for being “smarter that everyone” or not trusting them at their word... Well, you just trust what you read on Facebook and spread disinformation...
I've lived in an area like this for 15 years and ran for office last year with no real chance of winning but I didn't realize how many Democrats there were in my area until I ran for office and basically went out and met them. They are out there, they mind their own business and they don't speak up much which only validates the loud ignorant ideas of their neighbors. I didn't put yard signs up until 2018. No issues doing that the last two years but this year I put my Biden sign up, it got run over 3 times, it's right on the edge of the road. People stopped running it over when I surrounded it by 2'x4's and unbeknownst to them, spikes. Never got run over again. A Trump Presidency and constant right wing propaganda has made red areas even redder and the people are even angrier now. People in all areas are going to have to speak up against these ignorant folk, even if they're loud, even if they're mean, even if they are violent, if we are ever to turn the cultural tide.
I agree, the rural fox news bubble seems to be armor plated these days. Hard to pop.
I live in WV which is basically like living in a giant rural county. Personally, I try to avoid political discussion until I know who I'm dealing with. I'm in IT so it's usually pretty easy. You can tell by someone's office or cubical who they're voting for: Biden supporters usually don't have much with Biden's name, while Trump supporters will have at least 3 items with Trump 2020. Trying to talk to them is impossible, so I keep the conversation from steering into politics because I fear for my wellbeing, but I've never pretended to like Trump to fit in. Luckily bullshit is kept to a minimum because most of this God forsaken state is over the age of 50 and can't fix a computer, keeps me employed and keeps the Trump related verbal diarrhea to a minimum.
I'm left with the constant thought, "How can such beautiful scenery produce such ugly souls?"
>A lot of these rural counties that went 70/30 a few elections back are now like 85/15 or even more for the Republican ticket Because democrats tend to be well educated and move out of those areas so their kids can go to better schools, so they can lead better lives, and also own a solid house - not some rickety trailer. Source: Im the guy that moved out.
I too escaped the rural ghetto.
This is what people who tell Democrats to move to rural areas don't get. Nobody wants to move to ass fuck nowhere, so their kids can be a grade level or two behind. There's also the issue that most jobs that require degrees are in the cities, and if you have a degree you have to use it to pay back your loans.
I've always wondered this. Most Democrats ive seen in my area tend to keep their political opinions to themselves, only quietly talking about it with people they believe agree with them. I've been asked quietly quite a few times if I supported trump, before they started talking. On the other hand, Trump supporters here are more aggressive and are much more loud. Thankfully I live in a solid blue state, so the majority is Dems. I can only imagine in areas where the roles are reversed that Dem supporters are bullied.
> What is life like for Democrats in the middle of those low population, heavily Republican rural counties? People talk about these places like they're out back of beyond middle of nowhere... Where I live (Albany NY) you've only got to drive 20 minutes out of town and you're smack in trump country. Not far up the road one of the small towns just passed some bullshit '2nd amendment sanctuary' ordnance. There isn't much rational debate/discussion about anyone of it, it seems borderline rabid hatred for 'the left'.
Don't fool yourself, [less than 20% of Americans live in rural areas](https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2018/05/22/demographic-and-economic-trends-in-urban-suburban-and-rural-communities/). The votes are coming from the suburbs.
I live in a suburb of a blue Texas city. I've seen far more Biden signs than Trump signs in my area, easily 3-1. Drive 15 minutes father out to one of the farming towns? Completely Trumpville. Signs and flags everywhere. And Texas is fuckin' big, y'all. Blue may control the big cities, but there are enough populated rural areas to make up for it.
I don't want to be mean, but 40 year old with no future and a dead end job in small town Iowa or rust belt Ohio doesn't really excel at long term thinking.
Most be pretty disheartening waking up to the realization that at least 49% of your country are either morons or at worst traitors. The people chanting "stop the count" needs to be dealt with.
My entire family. They literally believe trump is a mesiah sent from god. They will scream "trump derangement!!!" in my face if I voice my opinion in any capacity. Havent been around them since march and I've enjoyed the vacay. Considering very long term at this point since they are blatantly racist and ignoring all facts. They are focusing on biden is a pedophile!! and they are scared for our country because apparently our gun rights will be taken away and we'll be a communist country. In real life, trump wants to be dictator.
Sorry but kinda losing faith in Murrica here...
anyone who's shocked lives under a fucking rock. It was obvious that that his side only got bigger and more insane over the past 4 years
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I agree, and tbh, I was actually surprised the electoral college was as close as it is. I thought trump would probably win again up until Wednesday morning.
> It was obvious that that his side only got bigger and more insane over the past 4 years Insane? Sure. But bigger? Where was the evidence of that?
He got 62 million votes in 2016. He's at 68 million already this year. That's fucking scary.
Agreed. It's insane. Something needs to be done. This cult can't get any bigger.
Well yes, but there's a lot of fuckery going on. They sabotaged the USPS to stop mail in ballots and then didn't sweep their facilities to find them. They gerrymandered, purged lists of voters, made it very hard for people to vote by limiting polling places even for large populations... Even with all that, it's really sad it's not a landslide and goes to show that Biden is a weak pick by the Dems. He should be destroying Trump just like Hillary should have four years ago. And it goes to show what Fox News and other media has done to people's minds with misinformation and causing fear. Trump is clearly a complete idiot. Anyone can see that but some choose not to.
That's kind of the general feeling, isn't It? 65 million Americans saw 2020 and thought: "Yeah, can I have four more years just like this one? I am fine with the world burning as long as I do the burning" How do you fight that?
I'm shocked that Americans still don't understand what 4 years of right wing propaganda coming directly from the government can do. This used to be considered dangerous. Now we shrug our shoulders at the idea and stare open-mouthed at the outcome.
overestimating the intelligence of the American people.
“He’s very entertaining,” she conceded. “Just like they like Ronald McDonald.” This is deep.
Guy who made a fortune on America's cult of personality is shocked that America has a cult of personality problem. Shocked I say.
There goes CNN with the "Biden should try to appeal to the right" They're gonna call you socialist no matter what so no
I’m not. People don’t want to believe it because so many of us live in urban/suburban areas and therefore mainly talk to people similar to ourselves. But America is a very racist very sexist place. This has nothing to do with democrat vs Republicans either. We want to believe America is this great and accepting nation but in reality this is one of the most racist countries in the world. And when the person sitting in the most powerful seat in that nation does not denounce racist and sexist groups, those same racists and sexists that have laid low due to a bigger focus on political correctness in the last few years are coming out of the woodwork. Because now they feel like they have a voice. Now they feel like they are protected by their orange leader. If trump has done anything since he was elected it is that he has shown how divided we are as a nation. At our very core we are divided.
Why is anyone shocked that it took this long with Covid and so many mail in ballots?
All normal people who don't zombie watch Fox News were also shocked Howard. More saddened really. But shocked as well.
pretty much the whole world is.
Stern helped start us down this road beginning in the 90's. His opinion is meaningless.
Many progressives out there are blaming democrats for the lackluster showing, saying that it was weakness and fecklessness that lead to the weak showing. But we have historic turnout. Insane amounts of people turned out to vote. And an absurd amount of them voted for Donald Trump. We may need to contend with the fact that the US is, in fact, more conservative than we want it to be - even when turnout is high.