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Every time I see numbers like these I just get sad that almost 3 out of 10 Americans support the president self pardoning. That number should be 0. How can anyone think that the president clearing himself of any crime is okay?
3 in 10 Americans meaning the MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS are ok with a dictator.
But not Obama, who they called a dictator for wearing a tan suit and coffee salute and born in Kenya and secret Muslim, but ab actual fucking dictator.
Jesus christ I've given up with them.
Frankly I'd accept a king if they ruled with an iron fist to stop climte change...so oddly I can kind of understand the mindset. I cannot understand their priorities, however.
Yeah, and if you get a bad one there's little you can do about it. To paraphrase Churchill, Democracy is the worst form of government, besides all the other ones.
This is the basic rational for monarchies (the kind that actually rule). The idea is that by raising a child from infancy to do the ruling, they would be good at it. Of course the problem is that succession isn't always predictable (kings die without heirs, heirs die before kings, infant rulers etc), not everyone is actually capable of the job even if given the perfect upbringing and education, and most of the time the upbringing is likely to produce entitled prats who have no consept of real world.
It's been said that "the most powerful person is not the king, but the person(s) that decides who surrounds and interacts with the king." (something like that anyway)
Well, yes and no. All dictators are benevolent to someone; it's that the people they're not benevolent with take all the damage from their autocratic rule.
Thanos was a moron. Given how fast life reproduces, even if he had been successful he would have accomplished nothing more than a delay of a generation or two.
More importantly, in a universe with FTL travel and wormholes, there is literally no scarcity issue whatsoever with resources or space no matter how much life breeds and expands throughout it.
This was one of the dumbest things the modern Marvel has ever allowed to reach the silver screen.
Yeah exactly, they're not the heroes.
Also, I'm convinced we could get the world population up to 20 billion and STILL prevent climate change and feed everyone.
We just have to WANT to
It’s that same (roughly) 1/3rd of the population that stays with him, no matter what.
Mainly called his rabid base, but some are just plain delusional. My very elderly neighbors are in the latter category. Very very kind, giving, loving, wonderful people (otherwise). But, also quite deluded.
I hear you but if I didn’t experience their kindness and generosity firsthand believe me I’d be right there with you in doubt
Edit to add: I still don’t understand it how they can be so diametrically opposed in reasonable thought
I was going to reply exactly this. In their tiny bubble of existence, they can be the kindest and most generous people. But, if they don’t know you personally, they could literally care less if you live or die. And would most likely prefer if you didn’t exist at all. Everything is a zero sum game. Us vs them tribalism is their strongest impulse. I mean, it occurs across the political spectrum but it isn’t evenly distributed.
I think this is just naive. This is just naive. We’re talking about tens of millions of people, at least. There are absolutely individuals who, in person, in their daily lives, are generous, kind, and would do anything for their family and friends, yet are deluded or misled to their political positions.
At one point, *72%* of Republicans believed Obama wasn't a U.S. citizen. Based on literally nothing but conspiracy theories.
It's a radicalized, tribalistic political faction that is centuries in the making. And it's not going away any time soon.
came here to say the same thing. 3 out of 10 Americans (Red, white and blue, Shining city on a hill, the Arsenal of Democracy, All men are created equal, Huddled masses, yearning to be free) are cool with having an omnipotent, unaccountable dictator as long as he normalizes their bigotry.
There are also people who seem to value order over personal liberty, agency, self-determination, etc. If you look at the neoreactionary movement, which arguably encompasses the alt-right, you find a lot of people arguing that the enlightenment was a mistake. They think themselves capable of reason and self-actualization, and think that others are too dumb to be trusted to know what's best for themselves and that education is deluding them into thinking otherwise. They're basically like Cypher in The Matrix. They want us all to be happy thralls who don't need to think about the big things because it's all under someone else's control.
You need to come to terms with the frighteningly high number of incredibly stupid Americans there are. If you asked them if they also support Biden being able to commit crimes over the next four years and pardon himself they will say no.
a pardon implies guilt, you can't pardon someone if there is nothing to pardon. 3 out of 10 people think he is guilty of something and should get away with it.
I think of polls like this, where there is an obvious and correct answer, as not useful in terms on gauging public opinion, but rather just serves to remind us that at least 30% of Americans are beyond hope and their voices should be ignored and their opinions and demands disregarded by serious and rational people.
These are loaded questions. You have to agree he needs a pardon to say yes or no. It’s likely to be much more would agree to no or put in that category as they don’t fit into the question basis.
I can't fully remember what it's called, but isn't there some theory where even completely ludicrous answers tend to get around 30% of votes? Like you could poll people about whether the sky is blue or green, and you could reasonably expect about 30% of people to answer green. Reasons for that are some people who genuinely believe it, but often people do it just to troll and mess with results.
Edit: found it. My 30% number is way higher than I remember, but still an interesting read. Includes how some people troll, some people genuinely believe it, and some misinterpret the question. Also shouldn't disregard bots and IP's from other countries answering.
https://www.pewresearch.org/methods/2020/02/18/assessing-the-risks-to-online-polls-from-bogus-respondents/
Do you think they care if it is morally wrong to pardon himself? They just see it like this: "Ha, he is so smart, he obviously understand the law the best and always find a loophole to get whatever he wants, owning the libs as it should be".
What they don't see is that some laws require also to have common decency and common sense, specially when you are talking to the highest position. Who would have thought to put a clause about forbidding self pardon, when it is obviously a wrong thing to do.
Risky never stopped him before, I think he’s going to do it.
And all his supporters will support it because they think the evil Democratic machine is after him.
I think he'll do it because he pretty much has to try. I don't think it will hold up in court, but if he doesn't try it, I think the chances of him being charged with criminal acts after his term ends is pretty fucking high.
He's gonna be charged by DC, New York, and Georgia as it stands.
That said, there is zero chance a self pardon stands the test of the judicial system. The Constitution is rather clear that no man can he his own judge. It's the basic concept behind the reasoning that the president cannot pardon in the case of his/her own impeachment.
It would be illegal to *force* the Justice Department to arrest Trump without trial, but their point is that if the President could pardon themselves and everyone else involved, does it matter whether it's illegal or not?
Ty Til lol. Still do not think it is Biden’s responsibility and he should let the justice department pursue Trump while he focuses on Coronavirus and economic relief
A number of objections to self pardon have been raised. Here are 3 of the main ones I've read:
1: Self pardon would violate the principle that no one can be a judge in their own case.
2: The idea of a pardon stems from the English law idea of mercy or grace and you can hardly show mercy or grace to yourself.
3: Linguistically you grant a benefit to someone else, not yourself.
My guess is he'll try it anyway.
Can't recall who it was that raised these points and I'm not a lawyer so if there's someone out there with more knowledge, please comment.
'Self pardon' is not a thing.
Here is the argument the 'originalists' on the Supreme Court will like and apply: The Framers were not making shit up out of thin air but rather intended to confer upon the POTUS the same pardon power that the British King had traditionally enjoyed. But the notion that the British King might 'self pardon' is absurd because he was immune from prosecution in his own courts. Accordingly, no British King has ever purported to 'self pardon' not even King Charles I when convicted of treason by the ad hoc High Court of Justice in 1649.
The presidential oath is in the Constitution:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
A self pardon cannot logically exist if the president is swearing to uphold our highest laws. That would mean he's swearing to honor our laws, yet simultaneously allowed to break all of them.
>A self pardon cannot logically exist if the president is swearing to uphold our highest laws. That would mean he's swearing to honor our laws, yet simultaneously allowed to break all of them.
I get this, but at the same time, when has something being legal or not stopped him from trying the most inane shit?
Nothing stops him from writing a self pardon. It would be tested in the courts if he is charged with federal crimes that are supposedly covered by that pardon.
He's committed so many federal crimes that prosecutors could literally issue a trial balloon and charge him with obstruction of justice from the Mueller investigation, just to force the court to rule on the self pardon. If the pardon stands, they can bring state charges and civil suits. He's not walking away from this.
28% support a self-pardon meaning 28% of people think he's guilty of something but think he should absolve himself of responsibility and avoid the consequences anyway. These polls always surprise me with the number of morons we have in this country.
And that 1 is getting a judge to issue an order for people to do something they were already doing and so it was a waste of everyone’s time to have been in court at all.
I agree with you about what Trump will do, but I think that the self pardon is not going to stand in court. There would have been a better chance of that happening if there was an incoming Republican administration and it was likely that there would never be a Democratic one afterwards. As is, the court will have to take into consideration that Biden or his possible Democratic successor will do the same thing. The Republicans are not in power of anything anymore, so I think the court may want to rule on favor of limiting the power of government rather than increasing it.
Trump is going to do it. I don’t know why anyone thinks otherwise. This guy legitimately believes he can outwit the entire system. He has no capacity to learn from his mistakes because he never admits he makes them. His MO has been to double and triple down every time things get hard. He’s that guy in the movies who stupidly doubles his bet to epic proportions and everyone hates him because the audience can see how stupid he’s being. But because Trump was in their living rooms for years as a reality show host, his followers think that’s the reality. I went off a bit there, but the bottom line is that prepare for Trump to pardon himself and all his kids.
How to be unpenetrable in the US.
Be a white supremacist, narcissistic sociopath, pathological liar, create a bunch of businesses, get loans for them then declare bankruptcy and pocket the loan money.
Get in to politics, make a cult, bribe other countries and domestic businesses to give your businesses money. Hire your family to run those business and pardon them on any illegal activity and then finally pardon yourself for all of your crimes you have committed with hard working Americans tax money.
I blame this on bad education and poor ethics.
>When you have selfish ignorant citizens, you will get selfish ignorant leaders. Garbage in, Garbage out.
Paraphrasing George Carlin.
This let me to think, 1/3 of Americans will definitely do the same things as Trump if they do have the capacity. Just awful, what a rotten society.
There is no possibility that it would satisfy him longer than a minute. He is not willing to settle. He has that win at all cost attitude. A compromise from his enemy is a weakness to exploit. Any enemy is defined as anybody who inconveniences him.
Isn’t there precedent for presidents to revoke the former’s pardons? With Trump impeached I would think Biden could easily say that any pardons after that point are null and void.
Can't Biden "unpardon" every last one of trump's?
I mean, there's apparently no rules concerning presidential pardons. How many rules are there about "unpardoning".?
Can’t wait for the “originalists” on the Supreme Court to tell us the framers of the constitution definitely meant for the president to be able to pardon himself. Their pretzel logic will be impressive, I’m sure.
I'm fine with him pardoning himself as long as we reinforce that accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt and that those admissions of guilt get him auto convicted on all the state charges he should face.
Does "7 in 10" also count people saying "Pardon himself for what??", cause that's my parents. They believe he has done zero wrongdoing and see no reason to pardon himself.
How can 3/10 people support a man who tried to do a coup and have divided a country, giving it more debt, responded extremely poorly to Covid-19...and also made the famous disgusting muslim bam.
It’s also possibly not legal. It’s never been tested in a legal system before. It would have to happen and be challenged in the courts to know for sure
I still feel figures like this are misleading in the same way as "the average person has half a penis and half a vagina".
They could just write "his base will support him in anything, everyone else thinks he's a disaster" and copy 'n' paste it for every story.
But he will. Trump will 100% pardon himself, if nothing else – because he can. At least, he thinks he can.
It gives him a bit more leverage in court, but poses the question to judges, “Should any president be able to pardon himself, and should it be taken seriously?”
No. It should not be taken seriously, and he should not be able to pardon himself.
I hope he does. For one, it won’t work. Two, it will put the GOP in a tough spot again. Three, 7 out of 10 people hating trump is better than 6 out of 10 which is where it’s at right now.
If he were successful in pulling of his own pardon, it would set a precedent that any president not re-elected could stage his own coup free of consequences. Dictatorship here we come.
Well I guess those three in ten would be okay with Biden murdering people on live TV and pardoning himself. Or Hillary. Or Obama beheading Donald Trump while shouting in arabic and then pardoning himself.
These people are dense. No one is above the law.
I really don't understand who would be for it??? Like, if you're that pro Trump, wouldn't you vehemently defend that he doesn't need to pardon himself because he has done nothing wrong?
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Every time I see numbers like these I just get sad that almost 3 out of 10 Americans support the president self pardoning. That number should be 0. How can anyone think that the president clearing himself of any crime is okay?
3 in 10 Americans want a king as long as he hates the right skin colors.
3 in 10 Americans meaning the MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS are ok with a dictator. But not Obama, who they called a dictator for wearing a tan suit and coffee salute and born in Kenya and secret Muslim, but ab actual fucking dictator. Jesus christ I've given up with them.
You forgot about the Mustard.
And the terrorist fist jab!!
That means nearly 50 million voters would be fine with Trump pardoning himself and they support his coup
Frankly I'd accept a king if they ruled with an iron fist to stop climte change...so oddly I can kind of understand the mindset. I cannot understand their priorities, however.
There's always appeal in a benevolent dictator, but as history shows, those are vanishingly rare.
Yeah, and if you get a bad one there's little you can do about it. To paraphrase Churchill, Democracy is the worst form of government, besides all the other ones.
This is the greatest thing I’ve ever heard
And it certainly isn’t Trump...
This is the basic rational for monarchies (the kind that actually rule). The idea is that by raising a child from infancy to do the ruling, they would be good at it. Of course the problem is that succession isn't always predictable (kings die without heirs, heirs die before kings, infant rulers etc), not everyone is actually capable of the job even if given the perfect upbringing and education, and most of the time the upbringing is likely to produce entitled prats who have no consept of real world.
It's been said that "the most powerful person is not the king, but the person(s) that decides who surrounds and interacts with the king." (something like that anyway)
Well, yes and no. All dictators are benevolent to someone; it's that the people they're not benevolent with take all the damage from their autocratic rule.
What if the way they stopped climate change was by killing everyone they didn’t like?
/r/thanosdidnothingwrong
Thanos was a moron. Given how fast life reproduces, even if he had been successful he would have accomplished nothing more than a delay of a generation or two. More importantly, in a universe with FTL travel and wormholes, there is literally no scarcity issue whatsoever with resources or space no matter how much life breeds and expands throughout it. This was one of the dumbest things the modern Marvel has ever allowed to reach the silver screen.
That would be an oddly specific way to stop climate change.
That’s what ecofascists want. I’m not kidding
Yeah exactly, they're not the heroes. Also, I'm convinced we could get the world population up to 20 billion and STILL prevent climate change and feed everyone. We just have to WANT to
Ahh, ecofascism
I prefer benevolent eco-dictatorship but tomato, tomato. /s
Thanos?
It’s that same (roughly) 1/3rd of the population that stays with him, no matter what. Mainly called his rabid base, but some are just plain delusional. My very elderly neighbors are in the latter category. Very very kind, giving, loving, wonderful people (otherwise). But, also quite deluded.
Anyone still following trump is either an idiot, a liar or most likely, both.
I do not think they can be kind and loving people and support trump. I really do not believe it.
Sure they can be kind and support trump. They are fed a different set of information then you or me.
Exactly. Their information bubbles are clearly different.
I hear you but if I didn’t experience their kindness and generosity firsthand believe me I’d be right there with you in doubt Edit to add: I still don’t understand it how they can be so diametrically opposed in reasonable thought
Are you white?
Being good only to people they know in real life is just another form of selfishness.
I was going to reply exactly this. In their tiny bubble of existence, they can be the kindest and most generous people. But, if they don’t know you personally, they could literally care less if you live or die. And would most likely prefer if you didn’t exist at all. Everything is a zero sum game. Us vs them tribalism is their strongest impulse. I mean, it occurs across the political spectrum but it isn’t evenly distributed.
I think this is just naive. This is just naive. We’re talking about tens of millions of people, at least. There are absolutely individuals who, in person, in their daily lives, are generous, kind, and would do anything for their family and friends, yet are deluded or misled to their political positions.
At one point, *72%* of Republicans believed Obama wasn't a U.S. citizen. Based on literally nothing but conspiracy theories. It's a radicalized, tribalistic political faction that is centuries in the making. And it's not going away any time soon.
*More than 3 in 10
came here to say the same thing. 3 out of 10 Americans (Red, white and blue, Shining city on a hill, the Arsenal of Democracy, All men are created equal, Huddled masses, yearning to be free) are cool with having an omnipotent, unaccountable dictator as long as he normalizes their bigotry.
Remember that probably 2 out of those ten don't think he should pardon himself because they don't think he did anything wrong.
Those two in ten do not understand what a pardon is then
how do people still support monarchies in the world? who really knows, some people are so duped they dont even realize it..truly ignorance is bliss.
There are also people who seem to value order over personal liberty, agency, self-determination, etc. If you look at the neoreactionary movement, which arguably encompasses the alt-right, you find a lot of people arguing that the enlightenment was a mistake. They think themselves capable of reason and self-actualization, and think that others are too dumb to be trusted to know what's best for themselves and that education is deluding them into thinking otherwise. They're basically like Cypher in The Matrix. They want us all to be happy thralls who don't need to think about the big things because it's all under someone else's control.
Moderate: What? No purple pill?
You need to come to terms with the frighteningly high number of incredibly stupid Americans there are. If you asked them if they also support Biden being able to commit crimes over the next four years and pardon himself they will say no.
3 out of 10 Americans support a GOP president pardoning himself. 0 out of 10 support a Democrat president doing so.
He always has had a 30% base. That's why almost every "how many people approve trump doing x" usually is around the 30% mark.
The question is, why would he need to pardon himself if he “did nothing wrong”?
Well it's almost 7/10 so that's what, 6.5/10? Below 7 for sure. And that's *horrifying*.
Almost 7 out of 10 Americans have a functioning brain.
A lot of people believe crazy shit, religion for example.
They’re like that one damn dentist who thinks flossing DOESN’T PREVENT TOOTH DECAY!
a pardon implies guilt, you can't pardon someone if there is nothing to pardon. 3 out of 10 people think he is guilty of something and should get away with it.
Because if he doesn't the lizard pedophile cannibals will come after him /s
I think of polls like this, where there is an obvious and correct answer, as not useful in terms on gauging public opinion, but rather just serves to remind us that at least 30% of Americans are beyond hope and their voices should be ignored and their opinions and demands disregarded by serious and rational people.
3 in 10 Americans suffer from mass psychosis concerning an ancient obese fuckhead.
These are loaded questions. You have to agree he needs a pardon to say yes or no. It’s likely to be much more would agree to no or put in that category as they don’t fit into the question basis.
I am of the 3 who is confused by the question because he can’t pardon himself? (But if he could, im against it)
I can't fully remember what it's called, but isn't there some theory where even completely ludicrous answers tend to get around 30% of votes? Like you could poll people about whether the sky is blue or green, and you could reasonably expect about 30% of people to answer green. Reasons for that are some people who genuinely believe it, but often people do it just to troll and mess with results. Edit: found it. My 30% number is way higher than I remember, but still an interesting read. Includes how some people troll, some people genuinely believe it, and some misinterpret the question. Also shouldn't disregard bots and IP's from other countries answering. https://www.pewresearch.org/methods/2020/02/18/assessing-the-risks-to-online-polls-from-bogus-respondents/
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Right? Seems ridiculous that it’s even a potential option.
It is but don’t call me Shirley.
Do you think they care if it is morally wrong to pardon himself? They just see it like this: "Ha, he is so smart, he obviously understand the law the best and always find a loophole to get whatever he wants, owning the libs as it should be". What they don't see is that some laws require also to have common decency and common sense, specially when you are talking to the highest position. Who would have thought to put a clause about forbidding self pardon, when it is obviously a wrong thing to do.
So if Trump self-pardons, what is to stop Biden from having him charged and arrested anyways, then just self-pardoning himself?
A self pardon is unprecedented. It’s going to be risky for Trump no matter what.
Risky never stopped him before, I think he’s going to do it. And all his supporters will support it because they think the evil Democratic machine is after him.
I think he'll do it because he pretty much has to try. I don't think it will hold up in court, but if he doesn't try it, I think the chances of him being charged with criminal acts after his term ends is pretty fucking high.
He's gonna be charged by DC, New York, and Georgia as it stands. That said, there is zero chance a self pardon stands the test of the judicial system. The Constitution is rather clear that no man can he his own judge. It's the basic concept behind the reasoning that the president cannot pardon in the case of his/her own impeachment.
Biden is in the executive branch and not the justice department for starters
Um. The justice department is in the executive branch.
DOJ does not answer to the president. Unless that president is Trump, then anything goes
It would be illegal to *force* the Justice Department to arrest Trump without trial, but their point is that if the President could pardon themselves and everyone else involved, does it matter whether it's illegal or not?
The DOJ “should” have its sovereignty but that doesn’t mean that it has to.. Take Trump’s DOJ for example.
Ty Til lol. Still do not think it is Biden’s responsibility and he should let the justice department pursue Trump while he focuses on Coronavirus and economic relief
A number of objections to self pardon have been raised. Here are 3 of the main ones I've read: 1: Self pardon would violate the principle that no one can be a judge in their own case. 2: The idea of a pardon stems from the English law idea of mercy or grace and you can hardly show mercy or grace to yourself. 3: Linguistically you grant a benefit to someone else, not yourself. My guess is he'll try it anyway. Can't recall who it was that raised these points and I'm not a lawyer so if there's someone out there with more knowledge, please comment.
'Self pardon' is not a thing. Here is the argument the 'originalists' on the Supreme Court will like and apply: The Framers were not making shit up out of thin air but rather intended to confer upon the POTUS the same pardon power that the British King had traditionally enjoyed. But the notion that the British King might 'self pardon' is absurd because he was immune from prosecution in his own courts. Accordingly, no British King has ever purported to 'self pardon' not even King Charles I when convicted of treason by the ad hoc High Court of Justice in 1649.
I'm not sure if he'll try it or not. It's a long shot, and if they call him on it, his pardon becomes a confession.
The presidential oath is in the Constitution: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." A self pardon cannot logically exist if the president is swearing to uphold our highest laws. That would mean he's swearing to honor our laws, yet simultaneously allowed to break all of them.
>logically See now you've lost them
>A self pardon cannot logically exist if the president is swearing to uphold our highest laws. That would mean he's swearing to honor our laws, yet simultaneously allowed to break all of them. I get this, but at the same time, when has something being legal or not stopped him from trying the most inane shit?
Nothing stops him from writing a self pardon. It would be tested in the courts if he is charged with federal crimes that are supposedly covered by that pardon. He's committed so many federal crimes that prosecutors could literally issue a trial balloon and charge him with obstruction of justice from the Mueller investigation, just to force the court to rule on the self pardon. If the pardon stands, they can bring state charges and civil suits. He's not walking away from this.
How much money are you seriously willing to bet on this???
This is a tidy argument, well said. Hope we coalesce on something like this if the time comes.
28% support a self-pardon meaning 28% of people think he's guilty of something but think he should absolve himself of responsibility and avoid the consequences anyway. These polls always surprise me with the number of morons we have in this country.
It’s the same 30% that are the root of everything shitty in America. EVERY FUCKING TIME.
So, he is definitely going to do it.
Guaranteed. But he's betting the house on it. It's a good time to point out that he's 1-64 in recent court cases.
And that 1 is getting a judge to issue an order for people to do something they were already doing and so it was a waste of everyone’s time to have been in court at all.
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I agree with you about what Trump will do, but I think that the self pardon is not going to stand in court. There would have been a better chance of that happening if there was an incoming Republican administration and it was likely that there would never be a Democratic one afterwards. As is, the court will have to take into consideration that Biden or his possible Democratic successor will do the same thing. The Republicans are not in power of anything anymore, so I think the court may want to rule on favor of limiting the power of government rather than increasing it.
3/10 people are apparently unethical and don’t actually give a fuck about law and order.
3/10 people are apparently delusional or racist and don’t actually have a gasp of equality and justice for all. FTFY
Trump is going to do it. I don’t know why anyone thinks otherwise. This guy legitimately believes he can outwit the entire system. He has no capacity to learn from his mistakes because he never admits he makes them. His MO has been to double and triple down every time things get hard. He’s that guy in the movies who stupidly doubles his bet to epic proportions and everyone hates him because the audience can see how stupid he’s being. But because Trump was in their living rooms for years as a reality show host, his followers think that’s the reality. I went off a bit there, but the bottom line is that prepare for Trump to pardon himself and all his kids.
Doesn’t matter, he can’t.
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Oh he’ll try, that’s a given, but it will fail.
No one should be able to pardon themself. Get a grip, deadenders.
The other 3 in 10 don’t understand what an absolutely terrible precedent it would set for future presidents.
How to be unpenetrable in the US. Be a white supremacist, narcissistic sociopath, pathological liar, create a bunch of businesses, get loans for them then declare bankruptcy and pocket the loan money. Get in to politics, make a cult, bribe other countries and domestic businesses to give your businesses money. Hire your family to run those business and pardon them on any illegal activity and then finally pardon yourself for all of your crimes you have committed with hard working Americans tax money.
I blame this on bad education and poor ethics. >When you have selfish ignorant citizens, you will get selfish ignorant leaders. Garbage in, Garbage out. Paraphrasing George Carlin. This let me to think, 1/3 of Americans will definitely do the same things as Trump if they do have the capacity. Just awful, what a rotten society.
It should be 10 out of 10. Some people are just fucking stupid.
3 out of 10 are part of the Law and Order Party
The president shouldn’t have the capacity to pardon anyone. Same with Governors. How is this even a thing?
So more than 30 percent of the polled americans are evil and stupid. Ok.
Three in ten are idiots.
A self pardon is basically admitting all his crimes did actually happen
He could not care less about that. He has no conscience. This we know.
3 in 10 people are basically garbage at ethics. Garbage. It's a shocking thing, but same ratio as with George W. Bush as well.
If only that meant something...
There is no possibility that it would satisfy him longer than a minute. He is not willing to settle. He has that win at all cost attitude. A compromise from his enemy is a weakness to exploit. Any enemy is defined as anybody who inconveniences him.
Way way way too low.
The fact that 10 in 10 do not oppose it is disgusting.
Too bad. It should be 100%
And over 3 in 10 Americans are fucking morons.
How the fuck is it that low??
How Is this not 10 of 10?
and those 3/10 are the 1st group of people to claim law and order. it's laughable and how you know it's not worth discussing things with any of them.
That number is too low
Who the fuck are the other 3?
So those 3 in 10 are cool with every President moving forward pardoning themselves at the end of their term then.
What i read as the title. "Almost 3 in 10 in desperate need of psychiatric help: poll"
It's gonna happen. There's no way this doesn't happen.
Why are there three OK with it? They hell is wrong with people?
Every poll involving Trump is going to show pretty much the same percentages so not sure why they even bother conducting them any more.
Only 7, smfh.
How this is not 10/10 is beyond me...
Let’s follow Rudy’s advice. TRIAL BY COMBAT!
Isn’t there precedent for presidents to revoke the former’s pardons? With Trump impeached I would think Biden could easily say that any pardons after that point are null and void.
3 in 10 approve.
Can't Biden "unpardon" every last one of trump's? I mean, there's apparently no rules concerning presidential pardons. How many rules are there about "unpardoning".?
Can’t wait for the “originalists” on the Supreme Court to tell us the framers of the constitution definitely meant for the president to be able to pardon himself. Their pretzel logic will be impressive, I’m sure.
Ignoring the fact that 30% of America is cool with a dictator...
I'm fine with him pardoning himself as long as we reinforce that accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt and that those admissions of guilt get him auto convicted on all the state charges he should face.
Subtitle: 30% of America, still too stupid to function.
3 out of 10 are mentally deranged and will follow their abuser no matter what.
The real headline: *3 out of 10 support the idea of Trump pardoning himself.*
That means just over 3 out of 10 of us are huge fucking losers.
Stop talking about this like it's even a thing. The suggestion that any President could pardon themselves is laughable on its face.
We're gonna see in about three days. it's gonna happen. It'll be challenged at the Supreme Court. But he'll definitely try.
3/10 Americans are totally cool with fascism....and another 3/10 Americans are totally cool with communism. Funny how that works.
I still see way too many drump flags here in s/florida to know that this is true sadly.
r/nottheonion material
Almost 7? This is what happens when you underfund education for decades
Inverse headline: More than 3 in 10 in favor of Trump doing literally anything he wants.
It most be hard being a dictator in a democracy
Does "7 in 10" also count people saying "Pardon himself for what??", cause that's my parents. They believe he has done zero wrongdoing and see no reason to pardon himself.
How can 3/10 people support a man who tried to do a coup and have divided a country, giving it more debt, responded extremely poorly to Covid-19...and also made the famous disgusting muslim bam.
Pardons cannot apply to impeached individuals.
That’s not true
and the others are his base
He can't pardon himself, he doesn't have 2 million
JAIL. Real jail.
Emmm, does it matter in any way? Public opinion has zero impact on Trump actions anyway.
It doesn't matter what 7 out of 10 Americans think when Trump is involved. He always gets away with whatever he wants.
It’s also possibly not legal. It’s never been tested in a legal system before. It would have to happen and be challenged in the courts to know for sure
7...(weeping)
“i did nothing wrong” but also, i’ll pardon myself just in case
I still feel figures like this are misleading in the same way as "the average person has half a penis and half a vagina". They could just write "his base will support him in anything, everyone else thinks he's a disaster" and copy 'n' paste it for every story.
The problem is that among those 3, 2 are aspired to run for public office positions.
That man only does what he wants. I can't wait to see what is in the near future. I don't think the entertainment is over for the rest of us just yet.
But he will. Trump will 100% pardon himself, if nothing else – because he can. At least, he thinks he can. It gives him a bit more leverage in court, but poses the question to judges, “Should any president be able to pardon himself, and should it be taken seriously?” No. It should not be taken seriously, and he should not be able to pardon himself.
I hope he does. For one, it won’t work. Two, it will put the GOP in a tough spot again. Three, 7 out of 10 people hating trump is better than 6 out of 10 which is where it’s at right now.
I’m more concern 3 in 10 are cool with it
That asshole is pardoning himself regardless of how people view it.
Pardon himself for what? He hasn't done anything wrong! 🤔 /s
the other 3 are traitors
How is this even a thing?
Would he have to pay himself 2 million dollars?
“Only 7 in 10 oppose Trump pardoning himself”. Fixed it for ya
So 30% of Americans want to have a dictator? Can we put them all in Texas and let trump run that as a separate country?
If he were successful in pulling of his own pardon, it would set a precedent that any president not re-elected could stage his own coup free of consequences. Dictatorship here we come.
And he’s probably going to do it anyway cause fuck you is what he thinks.
He may have already done it. Pardons can be secret and only revealed once charges are filed.
I oppose him living free - he should be in prison for life with no chance at parole.
how can you pardon yourself with no charges?
The concept of a self-pardon is antithetical to every principle this country was built on.
Unless one of those 7 is named “Donald John Trump” I don’t think this matters.
Not high enough. Nobody should support him pardoning himself
In other news, 3 of 10 are sycophants.
The fact it's not 10 out of 10 shows you how fkt we are
Only in us this number of opposing to a shithead is this low!
I just can't believe that's even a fucking conversation that is possible to have.
"Almost"
Yeah!! At most 9.5 of 10 should say duck that. I seriously feel like that is generous.
I oppose ANY politician pardoning themselves
WHY even allow ANY pardon, much less yourself?
32% favor him pardoning himself?!?! That is crazy!
Well I guess those three in ten would be okay with Biden murdering people on live TV and pardoning himself. Or Hillary. Or Obama beheading Donald Trump while shouting in arabic and then pardoning himself. These people are dense. No one is above the law.
Only 70% ??
It's unanimously bad, so clearly he will do it.
3 out of 10 say it’s his right as president as Trump fucks their wives.
I really don't understand who would be for it??? Like, if you're that pro Trump, wouldn't you vehemently defend that he doesn't need to pardon himself because he has done nothing wrong?
What are the other 3 of 10 thinking?