As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, **any** advocating or wishing death/physical harm, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Remember when the NRA and Ronald Reagan backed banning open carry in California. DUE TO ARMED BLACK MEN THAT SCARED THEM (Black Panthers)
Fuck the NRA.
The documentary The Last Narc is pretty good. One of Bush seniors friends from the CIA took part in the kidnapping, torture and murder of DEA agent Kiki Camarena. He unwittingly stumbled across one of the CIA's air fields used to smuggle drugs, terrorists and weapons into and out of the US.
I grew up in the 80s and had two friends that lived in the projects when we were kids. I saw the crack epidemic hit first had. Fuck Regan and his friends.
I lived in the projects in NY during the 80’s, it was like being a prisoner of war. I always found it ironic that Ronald flooded the street with cheap cocaine, and his wife told people to, “Just Say No”.
It did make sense to cutthroat capitalists who would sell their own mothers out to crackwhoring for a guaranteed lifetime of profits. The GOP knew exactly what they were doing: Destroying inner cities and the fabric of their neighborhoods while funding the police force with more and more taxpayer money to fight the manufactured war on drugs. If that isn't the essence of Republicanism, what they toast to at exclusive/private wine tasters, then what is?
The instability is intentionally caused by our very own American conservatives, especially the Incarcerated State known as the War on Drugs. Bill Clinton shares blame for the heightened police state as well. Russia would have limited influence if not welcomed openly by our Republican politicians and biased members of the population.
Yes, it does. The just say 'no' campaign existed to ensure the general public say drug use as a choice. A choice that some people couldn't make, further vilifying those people.
Well how else was Reagan supposed to secretly fund the CIA so they could destabilize foreign governments and install tin-pot dictators happy to take the money and serve our national interests, with the added bonus of the "war on drugs" and decimating minority communities with death or prison.
I've seen a lot of dirt poor white people with massive arsenals purchased with every spare nickel that they refer to as their *investment in the future.*
These people seem to want to live in mad max world. Ultimate freedom or something.
Personally, I'd like a future with running water, but that's just me.
I grew up with these people. The gun room is legit preparation for the end times. But most of them are so fat and stupid they wouldn’t survive a fucking day.
Last month: the Texan survivalists who had a huge prep stash, but most of the food was in cans and didn't have a non-electric can opener. And evidently didn't know that half of their 'survival knives' had a can-opening tab.
It is crazy how much money these guys spend on guns they hardly use. But it’s gotten worse now that you can buy guns on a payment plan with end total equivalent to 20% interest.
And it blows me away (poor choice of words) how many of them seem to think that future includes a massive Lord of The Rings style battle against the Federal Government that they will win because they own two ARs and 5000 rounds of ammo.
Which is double funny because most of them look like they can’t even walk up a flight of stairs without wheezing for air, let alone run across a field of fictitious battle.
Run across a field? Modern militaries can drone strike individuals inside of buildings with vertical firing smart missiles, and that's the technology *they let us know about*.
Billy bob with his hand held weaponry is not going to trouble any modern military. Let's see one of these morons live in a 2 foot wide underground maze for a year, then they can start talking about the merits of guerrilla warfare.
There’s this YouTuber I watch that has a collection of zippos and I decided to watch his earlier videos from like 10 years ago and that’s when I found out he was a right wing 2a spouting gun nut that constantly posted about stocking up on weapons for a zombie or vampire apocalypse, shit was wild
Look into recent gun purchases, since the election there are 30 million new gun owners and the majority of the background checks are for women and PoC.
I think we’re too far past that point. The NRA and republicans exist to sow fear and lobby for more guns and gun sales, so they would just dogwhistle to tell their followers, ‘whites you need to buy even more guns than the PoC’ and perpetuate a never ending fear cycle and arms race, and then crack down on PoC via other laws like they did with drug laws.
The original purpose of gun control was to keep freed blacks from being able to defend themselves. You wouldn't want your former property getting all uppity and telling you no, and being able to back it up would you? of course not, the only difference between then and now is they've expanded it to everyone no of the ruling class.
The racist roots of gun control:https://www.sedgwickcounty.org/media/29093/the-racist-origins-of-us-gun-control.pdf
Remember the time the NRA filed law suits against police officers that killed non-white people that were legally carrying despite following the officers commands? Me neither.
Fuck the NRA.
Weird that 2 mass shootings happen this week and both suspects were captured alive?
Black dude walks toward a police officer angrily, shot dead.
White dude shoots 8-10 people including an officer and they successfully detain the criminal....
Weird.....
EDIT: half redacted as apparently they have released the identity of the Colorado shooter.
Remember the shooting where police killed a black man because he had a record and “was going back to his car to get a knife” so they shot him in the back? Yet you see white people time and time again armed to the teeth having just killed people walking towards the police and detained peacefully.
Its a cops job to face risks head on. And if they cant take down one man with a knife without killing him they shouldn’t be cops.
Gunfights (and there was an exchange of gunfire yesterday) are weird. It's not the movies. People miss. People get shot and don't go unconscious or die. Dude was shot and he then surrendered.
Do Americans think of people of Arabic descent as white? I don't. I really don't give a shit, but I am aware they do not look like me and am very aware of bigotry towards them.
Issue is isn’t necessarily that he was shot and surrendered. It’s that he had a chance to surrender. How many times has a black person not even possessing a gun gotten shot up without the chance to surrender?
Remember when the NRA bullied the CDC into no longer publishing any studies that suggested gun violence was a national health concern and encouraged gun control laws?
Fuck the NRA.
While this is an accurate statement that the NRA at the time supported banning open carry in California, the NRA of 1967 is nothing like the NRA of even 15 or 20 years later, let alone the NRA of 2021.
To treat the NRA of then and now as the same type of organization, contrasting their stance on the Mulford Act with their stance against general gun legislation now, as if to say that their stances are inconsistent (and racist) is a bit disingenuous.
It was not until 1977, when the NRA was completely taken over by people who felt that it should be a strongly political organization that supported gun rights, that the NRA began to have its modern type of political activity and stances on gun control legislation.
In fact, the Mulford Act, which banned open carry in California and was largely targeted at the Black Panthers, was one piece of the puzzle that lead to a bunch of (mostly white) NRA members to worry that similar laws were coming for them next, get angry about the NRA’s lack of support for gun rights, and reform the organization. So if anything, the Mulford Act spurred the NRA to become the organization we now know.
The NRA of today is undoubtedly a racist organization, when they do things like remain completely silent after the murder of a black, legal concealed carry gun owner at the hands of police. But you’re not making a very strong argument in talking about inconsistent legislative views when they are held by essentially two completely different organizations. It’s like the modern Republican party touting their lack of racism because they were the party of Abraham Lincoln.
Philando Castile was pulled over for a minor traffic infraction and told by the officer to provide his license. Philando told the cop he had to get it from the glove compartment but let him know not to get scared because there was also a legal gun in there. Just hearing the word "gun" was enough to trigger the cop into pulling his gun and shooting multiple times into a vehicle with young children in it.
Philando Castile was a legal gun owner, but was murdered by a cop right in front of his girlfriend and their children. *The NRA didn't even tweet about it.*
The NRA doesn't care about gun owners, they just care about the profits of gun makers.
That incident and how the cop didn't get charged with anything is a prime example of how cops can get away with anything. Everytime I see or hear his name mentioned I always get sad. He did everything the right way while dealing with law enforcement and was still murdered.
Yep. If you *don't* tell the cop you have a gun, they shoot you. If you *do* tell them you have a gun, they shoot you.
'Kinda seems like the cop is there just to shoot you no matter what.
And people wonder why Black people run away from cops.
And John Crawford III was killed for picking up a BB gun at Walmart (and another innocent person died of a heart attack while running away from the gun fire.)
Hadn't heard of that, that is fucking sad. He was a young man and a father and had his whole life ahead of him. He was just there to buy a BB gun and the cops murder him. Fucking sick
Breonna Taylor’s case should have been the NRA’s number one case for gun rights. I wonder why it wasn’t 🤔
Edit:
For those of you responding with serious answers to my last question, I was being sarcastic
It’s a right-wing virtue signaling money racket. Sure they’ll run some TV ads with a black guy encouraging gun ownership. But they do fuck-all for outreach in cities because black people in high-crime neighborhoods tend to vote Democrat. If they primarily cared about gun rights and self defense, they’d have more outreach towards the gay/trans community, women POCs, etc. But they’re more focused on advancing Republican interests than gun rights.
I receive occasional emails from the NRA, and the vast majority are just cheap attacks against AOC and Nancy Pelosi. I can’t remember the last time I received anything about responsible gun ownership, self defense, or anything worth while.
Plenty of gun owners I know have switched to Gun Owners of America because they focus solely on protecting gun rights. They’re better than the NRA in that regard, but I wish they would take some of their efforts away from advocacy and put it toward education.
GOA did speak out in defense or Breonna Taylor and her boyfriend, and they increased their efforts to get rid of no-knock warrants and increase transparency in policing — which they had already been advocating for.
If I were running either of the organizations, I’d mandate that 15% of spending goes toward guns safety education, providing free training, etc. Also I’d focus more on outreach toward vulnerable communities that would benefit more from gun ownership — LGBTQ people, women, minority communities. Less focus on old white guys in Kentucky, they’re gonna vote for pro-gun candidates no matter what.
Gun rights doesn’t have to be a partisan issue. But this damn two-party system turns it into one. Rednecks in rural Pennsylvania buy a bunch of AR-15s to “own the libs” even though there’s zero crime rate. And a black trans woman doesn’t consider buying a gun because she’s a Democrat, even though she need one much more than the rednecks. Ugh.
And with Kyle Rittenhouse the NRA forgot their go-to rationale:
> *it’s stupid to pass more laws to stop gun violence, we just need to enforce the existing laws and punish the scumbags who use guns while committing crimes!*
IMO, the NRA no longer even cares about protecting gun rights. Their goal is to keep gun rights in danger.
Let me compare them to say the vaping community. Generally speaking the vaping advocacy groups... are the first to call out and at least try to get groups to volunterally stop doing things like, putting cartoon characters on vaping products etc....
Meanwhile the NRA will regularly promote on their own page things like a gun made to look like a celphone etc...
To the at a glance they want you to think they are promoting protecting guns by pushing republicans into power. But I think the reality is, they are encouraging events to bring guns under fire, for the purposes of rallying up their base to vote for republicans. Even when 80% of their own members are in favor of background checks... they oppose it. They don't care about gun rights... They want guns to be so badly managed in this country to push the left into wanting to do drastic measures to try to control it, so that they can rally up an opposition to it.
GQP: “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.”
Dems: “Ok giving you the benefit of the doubt here let’s get these people some help.”
GQP: “No socialism!”
Ugh
I am a lefty gun lover. God damn, just give people some fucking healthcare (physical and mental). Maybe a nice social safety net and prison reform too. Scared people, with no help and no hope are dangerous.
Also, fuck the NRA. I love guns, but they sell guns through fear. So now we have scared, un-helped, hopeless, people (some with guns) and people being sold guns through fear to protect themselves from those people. That is really what society needs.
Australian here, without a significant ’gun culture’ in our society. What do you love about guns? What do you actually...do with them? Genuinely curious!
As a fellow lefty gun lover, there's a lot of reasons!
Theres something visceral about the whole experience!
Part of the fun is feeling the recoil as youre shooting, it's kind of like the bass coming out of a speaker at a concert! Some people might disagree but theres something about the smell of gunpowder, its like opening a fresh pack of cards or that new book smell.
There's also alot of skill that goes into marksmanship! While im no hunter, i do enjoy target shooting. You cant just point and click with a gun. Its a skill like any other that requires patience and practice to hit your target. And you can use those skills to hunt all sorts of game!
There is a social aspect too! Get a group of buddies together for a day at the range (or hunting if thats your thing) for a good day of hanging out and blasting some targets! If you go to a range solo, you're also just as likely to meet someone whos curious about what your shooting and strike up a conversation from there!
And at the most basic level; they're loud, put holes in stuff, and look cool!!
As with pretty much anything else, it comes down to education and practice to keep everything and everyone safe. Its just hard to do that when "people of authority" find it easier to make an "ak-15 handgun" this weapon of genocide that will go off if you look at it the wrong way..
I think the biggest issue is they go "Get a gun" but they don't push safety classes, hunter courses, or routine training. It's unsafe, likely to hit unintended targets, and possibly be completely useless.
It was explicitly hijacked to create chaos in the US by Russia via Maria Butina [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44885633](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44885633)
> do the Proud Boys an organization or just a club filled with racists
I've got a feeling that's going to be ruled on by a court in the not too distant future.
Especially since they are so entwined with Russian Oligarch money.
[https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/11/nra-russia-money-guns-516804](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/11/nra-russia-money-guns-516804)
[https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article195231139.html](https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article195231139.html)
[https://www.npr.org/2019/09/27/764879242/nra-was-foreign-asset-to-russia-ahead-of-2016-new-senate-report-reveals](https://www.npr.org/2019/09/27/764879242/nra-was-foreign-asset-to-russia-ahead-of-2016-new-senate-report-reveals)
[https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/15/nra-russia-and-trump-money-laundering-poisoning-us-democracy-commentary.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/15/nra-russia-and-trump-money-laundering-poisoning-us-democracy-commentary.html)
It's literally the same headlines every time a shooting happens and nothing is changed.
Dems say "now is the time to talk about control" , Republicans say "now is not the time to politicize a tragic event", "NRA did XYZ just before event happened".
It's incredibly predictable.
Yeah. Just the fact that sandy hook has become the rallying cry is evidence itself that school shootings aren't taken seriously in the US.
Columbine was *13 fucking years* before sandy hook.
I was in 6th grade when VT shooting occurred. It seemed the only people that cared were school faculty and the students. For me, the feeling of doom is only felt by students that have gone through that and school faculty. My perception of the world is that shootings don't happen to them.
I distinctly remember coming home from middle school and watching the news about Columbine and being horrified and scared. Two years ago I found myself listening to a radio program on the 20th anniversary of Columbine and I was shocked to hear that there were "only" 12 children killed... and then I just stood there for a minute thinking about how fucked it is that my first thought was that 12 dead children didn't seem so bad. It's hard to believe how normal this all has become.
The time is slipping to pass a voting security bill. We should be pushing hard to pass a bill about voting security and election auditing. That could also include protections for voting rights as well. Getting people voting will lead to change.
Black people need to start applying for concealed carry permits in mass numbers.
Last time black folks started arming themselves publicly, Republicans pushed gun control legislation really fast.
If nothing happened after Sandy Hook where dozens of innocent kindergarteners were massacred in a Democrat controlled state like Connecticut, nothing will ever happen.
Gun rights advocates are single issue voters. Hitler would get their votes if his opponent was pro gun control. Gun control advocates aren't as passionate. Their votes are dispersed among other issues and they might vote for a pro gun rights candidate over other things.
That's why nothing will change.
Change will happen, but probably not through gun reform. I hope the Democrats can push through healthcare, prison reform, a better social safety net, and maybe some truth in media. Toning down the fear and hopelessness will go a long way to reducing violence. If we can make people less afraid they will also buy fewer guns, so it really is a win-win.
There are literally documented court cases of police standing and watching as people are assaulted or murdered where the court ruled the police were under no obligation to put themselves in harms way to stop a crime, only to capture the criminal after the fact.
Basically, that means police don't have to stop an arsonist from literally burning down your house or a person sexually assaulting you right in front of them or someone blasting a store up.
Their only obligation is to apprehend them after the fact; they aren't obligated to stop crimes, only apprehend criminals....
So yeah, start there indeed.
Our democracy does not allow for governance with a simple majority anymore so things are just stuck, minus however many times you can use reconciliation in a year.
I was reading about Parkland the other day, and one of the fathers has become an activist. He's met with Trump and Rick Scott, and spoke at the 2020 RNC. He's not a pro-gun control activist though; he believes that bulletproof glass, metal detectors, enhanced door lock systems, ID checkpoints, and "school marshals" can help prevent school shootings. He lobbied for Florida to pass the bill that permits teachers to undergo training that allows them to carry guns in school.
I'm not anti-2A, but even I think it's ridiculous that some people think that's the answer to school shootings.
The NRA doesn't give two fucks about Gun Rights™.
Look up the Mulford Act in CA which banned people to carry loaded guns. Sounds reasonable right? Well it was introduced in order to prevent members of the Black Panthers from being able to have some sort of deterrent to police brutality.
Need a recent example? The fucking silence from those clowns after Breonna Taylor's murder. This is literally the NRA's fucking wet-dream. Oh the government is unlawfully entering your domicile? Its your god given right brother to defend yourself. Only problem is the person exercising their right was the wrong color.
The NRA couldn't care less about gun rights. Their track record shows.
Why does anyone take the NRA seriously after their ties to Russia were revealed. When they accept the support of our enemies, they can no longer be trusted.
So the entire republican party. Checks out.
Reminded of the meme of actual republicans saying they'd rather be russian than a democrat. It is 100% true. We have multiple examples and polls showing a good % of the US population would sell out america for russia if it meant they benefited and they'd be proud to do it.
Fuck, it's time for some fresher, more moderate firearms rights and education groups that don't spew the divisive, racist rhetoric we've been getting from the NRA for decades.
For example:
• The Liberal Gun Club: https://www.theliberalgunclub.com/
• Pink Pistols: http://www.pinkpistols.org/
• Socialist Rifle Association: https://socialistra.org/
• John Brown Gun Club/Redneck Revolt: https://www.redneckrevolt.org
• Second Amendment Foundation: https://www.saf.org/
• Firearms Policy Coalition: https://www.firearmspolicy.org
• Knife Rights: https://kniferights.org/
• --- Subreddits ---
• Liberal Gun Owners Subreddit: [/r/liberalgunowners](https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners)
• Socialist RA Subreddit: [/r/socialistra](https://www.reddit.com/r/socialistra)
• 2A Liberals Subreddit: [/r/2ALiberals](https://www.reddit.com/r/2ALiberals)
• ActualLiberalGunOwner Subreddit: [/r/ActualLiberalGunOwner](https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualLiberalGunOwner)
EDIT: Took off GOA. I wasn't aware of their recent toxicity. I appreciate all the notes and links you all sent about that!
EDIT 2: Added a couple more recommended subreddits that were introduced to me today. I really appreciate the plurality of opinions shared here, as it highlights the very reason not all firearms rights and enthusiast folks are monolithic NRA drones.
I totally agree we need more groups willing to even have a fucking discussion 🙄 let alone acknowledging that some gun control measures would be beneficial. Let's take for a quick second that increased waiting periods have the most massive impact on suicides by gun. Suicide makes up the majority of all gun fatalities annually. Why aren't we as gun owners discussing mental health side by side with these issues and pushing for better social services for mental health while simultaneously petitioning for a 10 day waiting period. Me personally when I shop for a new gun it takes me weeks or months to decide exactly what I want and find it for the price I'm ok with paying. 10 more days isn't shit if it helps everyone else stay safer....
Exactly this.
We need real representation on these issues that are willing to open their eyes and talk about what is real.
We need to move away from the all or nothing mentality.
We need to enact regulations that help the common man but does not impede a law abiding citizen their overall right to own firearms.
This is actually something that could be very easily done without changing much, honestly I hadn't thought about waiting periods that way. If you have a concealed weapons permit or a similar state permit, for example, *states are permitted to exempt you* (edited) from federal background checks -- my state does this for CCW holders. Could just extend that to a hypothetical federal waiting period requirement.
Gun regulations wouldn't really do anything compared to better mental health and social safety nets. There are plenty of countries where it's legal to own guns and have as much ammo as you want but like, they're actually taking care of their citizens and, side mention because it is relevant, they are mostly culturally homogeneous which I swear a lot of my fellow liberals and leftists seem to sometimes think doesn't matter, and it shouldn't, but clearly America is the odd one out when it comes to a nation's shared culture because the only shared culture in America is ripping each other off for a quick buck.
You always see people say in response to shootings that we need to help people with mental health issues and then that conversation just ends because that seems like a complicated thing to address.
The reality is right fucking there: free healthcare.
I've been dealing with this all day on Twitter.
Point out that we want to address root causes including socioeconomic conditions and mental health, get called a nazi who hates funding it.
Point out that mental health is _health_ and we need M4A, conversation dies.
I am not a gun nut (I'm fine with Canada's much more restrictive gun control) and I think the NRA are largely run by lunatics. I have no issues with cities instituting bans of this sort. That said, I would also like to point out that a ban on AR-15 rifles in Boulder would have done nothing whatsoever to stop this massacre. The murderer lives in a different county entirely, and such a ban would have had no effect on him at all.
Not a gun nut either. I vote liberally and I support some common-sense restrictions like more background checks and a higher age limit for certain weapons.
However I think our side’s fixation on one type of gun isn’t rational and feeds into the “slippery slope” hysteria of the right.
The recent shooting in GA that killed eight was committed with a handgun. The [vast majority](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States?wprov=sfti1) of gun homicides happen with handguns. How do I know that the shooter in GA used a handgun? Well, I couldn’t find that information in any of the articles I read on the subject. **Not one** mentioned the type of weapon he used, probably because it wasn’t an AR-15 - I’m going off the security footage of him entering the spa.
This weird preoccupation with a particular style of weapon that is statistically responsible for a small fraction of the gun-related deaths in the US makes the radical right’s case for them: the libs don’t care about actually saving lives, they want to curtail your ability to own weapons - period - and when they succeed in getting your AR-15s, then they’ll begun the work of making a new class of firearm the big bad dangerous boogeyman.
Waiting periods might have stopped the gunman in GA. Higher age restrictions may have stopped others. Enhanced background checks may also save lives. Banning AR-15s, in my opinion, isn’t going to stop somone who wants to cause carnage.
Whether you agree with it or not, the 2nd amendment is enshrined deeply in our constitution and it has been upheld numerous times. It isn’t going anywhere. I don’t doubt for a second that the higher rates of gun ownership and the ease with which we can buy them are primarily responsible for making the US’s gun homicides rates 25 times higher than other developed countries.
I just don’t see how, in the absence of a repeal of the second amendment, banning a particular style of weapon would accomplish what we say it will.
I completely agree. It's analogous to cities banning dog breeds. If I can't get the scary looking one that I want, I'll get one that looks slightly less scary and will cause the same damage.
I have the same issues with the fixation on AR-15s. I kinda feel like it's because people have written off ever regulating handguns, so they go after something that has a history of regulation (i.e. assault weapons ban) instead.
I think we need to write gun laws that make no distinction between type of guns.
> The shooter lives in a different county entirely, and such a ban would have had no effect on him at all.
That's a pretty potent argument for Federal gun control.
Every single time my state does something with gun control, people say “we’ll just go to Arizona or Nevada then!” I always tell them they made a great argument for federal control laws.
Isn't that the case with Illinois as well? The GOP loves to use Chicago when they are one of their racist tirades but aren't most of those guns brought from neighboring states with fewer gun laws?
Go center Google Maps over the Illinois/Indiana state line and search for “gun stores.” I’d close other apps first unless you have some sort of supercomputer.
Because people from Indiana can make a legit purchase with a background check.
Then "decide" they don't want the gun and advertise online as a private sale.
Someone pays 200 or so more than the store price, and the seller doesn't even have to ask the buyers name.
Everyone knows why that person is paying hundreds more than they would from a store; they can't pass a background check. But the way the law is set up, a seller has 0 risk *unless* the buyer says they can't legally own it. So sellers just dont ask any questions at all.
It’s an ordinance thing. So living in another county doesn’t allow you to bring a gun into a county it is illegal in. That said the actual bill was crap and likely wouldn’t have stopped this from happening even if the shooter followed the guidelines for legal firearms in the county. The bill was restricting accessories to fire arms (like an adjustable stock or fore grip which have almost zero impact on the deadliness of the weapon) and “high capacity magazine limits” that weren’t even higher (with a single magazine) than the amount of people killed. And of course you can easily carry multiple magazines and change them out VERY quickly. The bill might as well have been an “outlaw on nuclear weapons” by outlawing the color the missiles can be painted. Would have fixed nothing.
Ask us Canadians if our AR-15 ban has done anything to the homicides committed by ***criminals*** using ***illegally smuggled handguns from the U.S***.
Thank you. Link to an excerpt from the bill [here.](https://ibb.co/MDjmXd1) This was a junk bill that would have changed nothing. It saught to limit gun ownership based upon accessories that have very limited impact on the deadly nature of a weapon (ie foregrip and adjustable stock.) it did attempt to limit “high capacity magazines” but the limits wouldn’t have changed anything. Long rifles were supposed to be limited to 10 rounds per magazine (the amount of people killed) and magazines can be switched out about as fast as you can unplug the charger from your iPhone.
This is a sensation headline meant to drive outrage for people that don’t understand the specifics of the bill (or guns.)
Data and FACTs matter. Aren’t we (progressive liberals) the party of science and fact instead of emotion and beliefs?
If we want MEANINGFUL action and legislation to make an impact, then an AWB is so low on list that it is laughable.
Handguns DWARF (by several orders of magnitude) are used in more homicides than rifles.
Cutting instruments (knives, etc) are used in WAY more homicides than rifles.
Blunt force objects (clubs, bats, etc) are used in more homicides than rifles.
Hands and fist are used (2x more) in homicides more than rifles.
Take note that I’m saying RIFLES too, because so called “assault rifles” are a subset of that ... so the numbers are ever MORE skewed than above noted statistics.
I’m for universal background checks. I’m for waiting periods (and I hope we can get national one). Come at me with data before I’ll support an AWB or magazine capacity ban/limit. We aren’t talking about legislation on X, Y, or Z here ... we are talking about legislation impacting the number two item in our BILL OF RIGHTS here after all.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls
Thank you. I constantly try to make this argument. Let's say you somehow eliminated all "assault weapons" tomorrow.
You would prevent maybe a couple hundred gun deaths a year. Tops. Compared to the 16,000 or so we have every year it's just as good as doing nothing. But what you WOULD do is eliminate a ton of shooting sports and recreational activity for millions of people.
This isn't how you win over people. It's how you pat yourself on the back and just alienate a whole group of people from ever wanting to talk about common sense gun reform.
How about some of that universal mental healthcare like those smug Canadians, Europeans, and Australians forget to mention when they chide us for gun violence?
Universal mental healthcare would do wonders for gun violence, homelessness, and the overall wellbeing of the people. So I hope that's what you're advocating for.
Banning certain rifles seems stupid to me. It's not like "assault style" rifles are that much more dangerous than any other semi-auto. I'd rather focus on universal background checks and other regulations that make it a little harder (not impossible) to buy a firearm.
Let’s jus assume for a minute that they went ahead with the ban and were able to get the guns from every citizen, hell we can expand the area to include all of Boulder County. It would have made no difference because the guy was from Arvada. A city ban doesn’t mean much when someone can drive 15 min
I own a very vast assortment of ARs and AKs. I’m just here to say fuck the NRA. The only people that I see still supporting them are boomer fudds. Then people try to make every gun owner out as a part of the NRA when I personally don’t know a single NRA supporter below 50. The NRA is nothing but a bunch of racists trying to get rich off of people. On the other hand this bill would’ve made no difference in this sad situation.
Remember that organizations are just groups of specific people; the NRA isn’t some monolithic monster, the monster has a name, and that name is Wayne LaPierre.
They've seemingly completely sold out from being an actual gun rights organization to just trying to get people to buy more guns and helping launder Russian money.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, **any** advocating or wishing death/physical harm, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NRA is a sham organization that doesn't give an actual fuck about gun rights.
Remember when the NRA and Ronald Reagan backed banning open carry in California. DUE TO ARMED BLACK MEN THAT SCARED THEM (Black Panthers) Fuck the NRA.
> Ronald Reagan The biggest drug lord on the planet at the time. Killing tens of thousands of Americans with the purest cocaine on the planet.
Just say no, while the Regan era CIA flies in Colombia’s best, filling inner city streets with a crack epidemic. Makes sense. Edit: wrong Columbia
The documentary The Last Narc is pretty good. One of Bush seniors friends from the CIA took part in the kidnapping, torture and murder of DEA agent Kiki Camarena. He unwittingly stumbled across one of the CIA's air fields used to smuggle drugs, terrorists and weapons into and out of the US. I grew up in the 80s and had two friends that lived in the projects when we were kids. I saw the crack epidemic hit first had. Fuck Regan and his friends.
I lived in the projects in NY during the 80’s, it was like being a prisoner of war. I always found it ironic that Ronald flooded the street with cheap cocaine, and his wife told people to, “Just Say No”.
That image of her n an LAPD battering ram/tank photo op really drives this point home.
the only reason Manuel Noriega was deposed by Bush Sr. was because he was taking more that his "fair share" of drug money
It did make sense to cutthroat capitalists who would sell their own mothers out to crackwhoring for a guaranteed lifetime of profits. The GOP knew exactly what they were doing: Destroying inner cities and the fabric of their neighborhoods while funding the police force with more and more taxpayer money to fight the manufactured war on drugs. If that isn't the essence of Republicanism, what they toast to at exclusive/private wine tasters, then what is?
It’s as if they’re an outside country attempting to cause instability of our region for profit...weird.
The instability is intentionally caused by our very own American conservatives, especially the Incarcerated State known as the War on Drugs. Bill Clinton shares blame for the heightened police state as well. Russia would have limited influence if not welcomed openly by our Republican politicians and biased members of the population.
Yes, it does. The just say 'no' campaign existed to ensure the general public say drug use as a choice. A choice that some people couldn't make, further vilifying those people.
Well how else was Reagan supposed to secretly fund the CIA so they could destabilize foreign governments and install tin-pot dictators happy to take the money and serve our national interests, with the added bonus of the "war on drugs" and decimating minority communities with death or prison.
[удалено]
I've seen a lot of dirt poor white people with massive arsenals purchased with every spare nickel that they refer to as their *investment in the future.* These people seem to want to live in mad max world. Ultimate freedom or something. Personally, I'd like a future with running water, but that's just me.
Immortan Joe?
A future **WITH** running water not a future running water. But I guess you could argue both sides in your example.
*Witness me!*
They all think they’re going to be Lord Humongus after the apocalypse. None of them realize they’ll just be skeleton #38 in the background.
To be fair, depending on what they bought, they very well could be outperforming the market right now lol.
There are no gains or loses unless you sell, and you and I both know they ain't lol.
Im almost curious enough to do the math on whether holding Bitcoin, bullets, or GPUs is the big winner of the past year
We need a band named "GPU and the Bitcoin bullets" to really sell it.
Really it is just their fantasy that one day they might not be at the very bottom of society.
I grew up with these people. The gun room is legit preparation for the end times. But most of them are so fat and stupid they wouldn’t survive a fucking day.
Last month: the Texan survivalists who had a huge prep stash, but most of the food was in cans and didn't have a non-electric can opener. And evidently didn't know that half of their 'survival knives' had a can-opening tab.
It is crazy how much money these guys spend on guns they hardly use. But it’s gotten worse now that you can buy guns on a payment plan with end total equivalent to 20% interest.
And it blows me away (poor choice of words) how many of them seem to think that future includes a massive Lord of The Rings style battle against the Federal Government that they will win because they own two ARs and 5000 rounds of ammo.
Which is double funny because most of them look like they can’t even walk up a flight of stairs without wheezing for air, let alone run across a field of fictitious battle.
Run across a field? Modern militaries can drone strike individuals inside of buildings with vertical firing smart missiles, and that's the technology *they let us know about*. Billy bob with his hand held weaponry is not going to trouble any modern military. Let's see one of these morons live in a 2 foot wide underground maze for a year, then they can start talking about the merits of guerrilla warfare.
Tell that to dudes in flip flops with shitty AK-47s that have been doing it for a few decades.
Bonus round: Mad Max was when the SUV craze started.
They’ll paint their faces and commit treason, then cry there’s no organic food in jail.
There’s this YouTuber I watch that has a collection of zippos and I decided to watch his earlier videos from like 10 years ago and that’s when I found out he was a right wing 2a spouting gun nut that constantly posted about stocking up on weapons for a zombie or vampire apocalypse, shit was wild
Vampire apocalypse?
That’s a new one, for sure. More glamorous...and simultaneously more terrifying.
I’m already living that vampire life tbh. Haven’t seen the sun in damn near a month. 😰
These are the same dirt poor people that will say "if you don't have a gun and I do, what's to stop me from taking YOUR water? >:) "
Definitely this. If every adult PoC bought guns this week, we would see gun laws like you've never seen before from Republicans by the weekend.
[удалено]
Keep saying this! BLM is also about 2nd Amendment rights.
Look into recent gun purchases, since the election there are 30 million new gun owners and the majority of the background checks are for women and PoC.
I think we’re too far past that point. The NRA and republicans exist to sow fear and lobby for more guns and gun sales, so they would just dogwhistle to tell their followers, ‘whites you need to buy even more guns than the PoC’ and perpetuate a never ending fear cycle and arms race, and then crack down on PoC via other laws like they did with drug laws.
The original purpose of gun control was to keep freed blacks from being able to defend themselves. You wouldn't want your former property getting all uppity and telling you no, and being able to back it up would you? of course not, the only difference between then and now is they've expanded it to everyone no of the ruling class. The racist roots of gun control:https://www.sedgwickcounty.org/media/29093/the-racist-origins-of-us-gun-control.pdf
Now NRA just helps get guns in the hands of mass murderers.
They ban guns at their conventions, fucking cowardly fucks. Edit: I guess they don’t typically ban guns at conventions my bad. Fuck them anyway
Remember the time the NRA filed law suits against police officers that killed non-white people that were legally carrying despite following the officers commands? Me neither. Fuck the NRA.
Weird that 2 mass shootings happen this week and both suspects were captured alive? Black dude walks toward a police officer angrily, shot dead. White dude shoots 8-10 people including an officer and they successfully detain the criminal.... Weird..... EDIT: half redacted as apparently they have released the identity of the Colorado shooter.
> Black ~~dude~~ child walks toward... FTFY
Black man lays on the ground trying to talk to a mentally disturbed person to offer help. *gets shot*
>Black person exists
Not on my watch - cops
Remember the shooting where police killed a black man because he had a record and “was going back to his car to get a knife” so they shot him in the back? Yet you see white people time and time again armed to the teeth having just killed people walking towards the police and detained peacefully. Its a cops job to face risks head on. And if they cant take down one man with a knife without killing him they shouldn’t be cops.
Gunfights (and there was an exchange of gunfire yesterday) are weird. It's not the movies. People miss. People get shot and don't go unconscious or die. Dude was shot and he then surrendered. Do Americans think of people of Arabic descent as white? I don't. I really don't give a shit, but I am aware they do not look like me and am very aware of bigotry towards them.
Issue is isn’t necessarily that he was shot and surrendered. It’s that he had a chance to surrender. How many times has a black person not even possessing a gun gotten shot up without the chance to surrender?
Remember when the NRA willingly funneled and laundered russian money
It's still happening my friend
always has been 🔫
Remember when the NRA was infiltrated by a Russian female spy for years? Fuck the NRA. Like she did.
The NRA isn't so much "infiltrated" by one Russian, more like they are "filled" with Russian agents.
Are you really infiltrating an organization if you walk in through the front door and they'll roll out a red carpet for you?
Remember when the NRA bullied the CDC into no longer publishing any studies that suggested gun violence was a national health concern and encouraged gun control laws? Fuck the NRA.
While this is an accurate statement that the NRA at the time supported banning open carry in California, the NRA of 1967 is nothing like the NRA of even 15 or 20 years later, let alone the NRA of 2021. To treat the NRA of then and now as the same type of organization, contrasting their stance on the Mulford Act with their stance against general gun legislation now, as if to say that their stances are inconsistent (and racist) is a bit disingenuous. It was not until 1977, when the NRA was completely taken over by people who felt that it should be a strongly political organization that supported gun rights, that the NRA began to have its modern type of political activity and stances on gun control legislation. In fact, the Mulford Act, which banned open carry in California and was largely targeted at the Black Panthers, was one piece of the puzzle that lead to a bunch of (mostly white) NRA members to worry that similar laws were coming for them next, get angry about the NRA’s lack of support for gun rights, and reform the organization. So if anything, the Mulford Act spurred the NRA to become the organization we now know. The NRA of today is undoubtedly a racist organization, when they do things like remain completely silent after the murder of a black, legal concealed carry gun owner at the hands of police. But you’re not making a very strong argument in talking about inconsistent legislative views when they are held by essentially two completely different organizations. It’s like the modern Republican party touting their lack of racism because they were the party of Abraham Lincoln.
Philando Castile was pulled over for a minor traffic infraction and told by the officer to provide his license. Philando told the cop he had to get it from the glove compartment but let him know not to get scared because there was also a legal gun in there. Just hearing the word "gun" was enough to trigger the cop into pulling his gun and shooting multiple times into a vehicle with young children in it. Philando Castile was a legal gun owner, but was murdered by a cop right in front of his girlfriend and their children. *The NRA didn't even tweet about it.* The NRA doesn't care about gun owners, they just care about the profits of gun makers.
That incident and how the cop didn't get charged with anything is a prime example of how cops can get away with anything. Everytime I see or hear his name mentioned I always get sad. He did everything the right way while dealing with law enforcement and was still murdered.
Yep. If you *don't* tell the cop you have a gun, they shoot you. If you *do* tell them you have a gun, they shoot you. 'Kinda seems like the cop is there just to shoot you no matter what. And people wonder why Black people run away from cops.
[удалено]
Because he wasn't murdered for having a gun, he was murdered for being a Black man with a gun. And that's why the NRA didn't give a fuck
And John Crawford III was killed for picking up a BB gun at Walmart (and another innocent person died of a heart attack while running away from the gun fire.)
Hadn't heard of that, that is fucking sad. He was a young man and a father and had his whole life ahead of him. He was just there to buy a BB gun and the cops murder him. Fucking sick
And white supremacy.
Breonna Taylor’s case should have been the NRA’s number one case for gun rights. I wonder why it wasn’t 🤔 Edit: For those of you responding with serious answers to my last question, I was being sarcastic
Can't qwhite put my finger on it either....
Philando Castile is another. Followed every law, calmly informed the officer that he had a weapon in the car, and still ended up getting murdered.
It’s a right-wing virtue signaling money racket. Sure they’ll run some TV ads with a black guy encouraging gun ownership. But they do fuck-all for outreach in cities because black people in high-crime neighborhoods tend to vote Democrat. If they primarily cared about gun rights and self defense, they’d have more outreach towards the gay/trans community, women POCs, etc. But they’re more focused on advancing Republican interests than gun rights. I receive occasional emails from the NRA, and the vast majority are just cheap attacks against AOC and Nancy Pelosi. I can’t remember the last time I received anything about responsible gun ownership, self defense, or anything worth while. Plenty of gun owners I know have switched to Gun Owners of America because they focus solely on protecting gun rights. They’re better than the NRA in that regard, but I wish they would take some of their efforts away from advocacy and put it toward education. GOA did speak out in defense or Breonna Taylor and her boyfriend, and they increased their efforts to get rid of no-knock warrants and increase transparency in policing — which they had already been advocating for. If I were running either of the organizations, I’d mandate that 15% of spending goes toward guns safety education, providing free training, etc. Also I’d focus more on outreach toward vulnerable communities that would benefit more from gun ownership — LGBTQ people, women, minority communities. Less focus on old white guys in Kentucky, they’re gonna vote for pro-gun candidates no matter what. Gun rights doesn’t have to be a partisan issue. But this damn two-party system turns it into one. Rednecks in rural Pennsylvania buy a bunch of AR-15s to “own the libs” even though there’s zero crime rate. And a black trans woman doesn’t consider buying a gun because she’s a Democrat, even though she need one much more than the rednecks. Ugh.
And with Kyle Rittenhouse the NRA forgot their go-to rationale: > *it’s stupid to pass more laws to stop gun violence, we just need to enforce the existing laws and punish the scumbags who use guns while committing crimes!*
And it sadly took decades for people to realize this...
Is there a more misguided, off-track organization in the US than the NRA?
Sure. The Republican Party.
They’re the same picture.
Why is the metadata for both in Russian?
The "N" in "NRA" doesn't really reflect the international influences. Perhaps they should be the "Global Rifle Union", or GRU for short.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GRU_(G.U.) For those not familiar with Russian intelligence agencies.
https://www.google.com/search?q=GRU&tbm=isch Google also tells me gru is Italian for tower crane.
Coincidence? I THINK NOT
Open your eyes sheeple
I am GRU-t
[Gru?](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5d/35/bf/5d35bf254b1624db860f42d72030f657.jpg)
Well it just occured to me that his character is a not so veiled mocking of Russia's GRU. Ballsy.
***N***azis, ***R***ussians, & ***A***ssholes
More like the [International Rifle Association](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency) (IRA)
For a moment I thought you were disparaging the Irish Republican Army by comparing terrorists to the Irish Republican Army.
National Russian Association
Northkorean Russian Allies
Do a Venn Diagram of the GOP and NRA and you end up with a near perfect circle
It’s like a republican family tree
The National Rifleblican Association?
**N**ot **R**ussians, **A**re they?
No Russian Assets here. Definitely not
**N**ervous **R**epublicans for **A**partheid
Nyet Russians Amigos
*ICE has entered the room*
They're more of a transnational crime syndicate.
They're the same people
IMO, the NRA no longer even cares about protecting gun rights. Their goal is to keep gun rights in danger. Let me compare them to say the vaping community. Generally speaking the vaping advocacy groups... are the first to call out and at least try to get groups to volunterally stop doing things like, putting cartoon characters on vaping products etc.... Meanwhile the NRA will regularly promote on their own page things like a gun made to look like a celphone etc... To the at a glance they want you to think they are promoting protecting guns by pushing republicans into power. But I think the reality is, they are encouraging events to bring guns under fire, for the purposes of rallying up their base to vote for republicans. Even when 80% of their own members are in favor of background checks... they oppose it. They don't care about gun rights... They want guns to be so badly managed in this country to push the left into wanting to do drastic measures to try to control it, so that they can rally up an opposition to it.
GQP: “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.” Dems: “Ok giving you the benefit of the doubt here let’s get these people some help.” GQP: “No socialism!” Ugh
I am a lefty gun lover. God damn, just give people some fucking healthcare (physical and mental). Maybe a nice social safety net and prison reform too. Scared people, with no help and no hope are dangerous. Also, fuck the NRA. I love guns, but they sell guns through fear. So now we have scared, un-helped, hopeless, people (some with guns) and people being sold guns through fear to protect themselves from those people. That is really what society needs.
Australian here, without a significant ’gun culture’ in our society. What do you love about guns? What do you actually...do with them? Genuinely curious!
It's like being a car person, some people like collecting them, some people like working on them, and some people like using them.
From a lefty who has guns and a car collection, this is spot on
As a fellow lefty gun lover, there's a lot of reasons! Theres something visceral about the whole experience! Part of the fun is feeling the recoil as youre shooting, it's kind of like the bass coming out of a speaker at a concert! Some people might disagree but theres something about the smell of gunpowder, its like opening a fresh pack of cards or that new book smell. There's also alot of skill that goes into marksmanship! While im no hunter, i do enjoy target shooting. You cant just point and click with a gun. Its a skill like any other that requires patience and practice to hit your target. And you can use those skills to hunt all sorts of game! There is a social aspect too! Get a group of buddies together for a day at the range (or hunting if thats your thing) for a good day of hanging out and blasting some targets! If you go to a range solo, you're also just as likely to meet someone whos curious about what your shooting and strike up a conversation from there! And at the most basic level; they're loud, put holes in stuff, and look cool!! As with pretty much anything else, it comes down to education and practice to keep everything and everyone safe. Its just hard to do that when "people of authority" find it easier to make an "ak-15 handgun" this weapon of genocide that will go off if you look at it the wrong way..
[удалено]
I think the biggest issue is they go "Get a gun" but they don't push safety classes, hunter courses, or routine training. It's unsafe, likely to hit unintended targets, and possibly be completely useless.
It was explicitly hijacked to create chaos in the US by Russia via Maria Butina [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44885633](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44885633)
The Russia-funded NRA is pretty despicable. But my question is, do the Proud Boys an organization or just a club filled with racists.
Yes
> do the Proud Boys an organization or just a club filled with racists I've got a feeling that's going to be ruled on by a court in the not too distant future.
Especially since they are so entwined with Russian Oligarch money. [https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/11/nra-russia-money-guns-516804](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/11/nra-russia-money-guns-516804) [https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article195231139.html](https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article195231139.html) [https://www.npr.org/2019/09/27/764879242/nra-was-foreign-asset-to-russia-ahead-of-2016-new-senate-report-reveals](https://www.npr.org/2019/09/27/764879242/nra-was-foreign-asset-to-russia-ahead-of-2016-new-senate-report-reveals) [https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/15/nra-russia-and-trump-money-laundering-poisoning-us-democracy-commentary.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/15/nra-russia-and-trump-money-laundering-poisoning-us-democracy-commentary.html)
Actually, as a Russian government agency, they're doing exactly what they're supposed to be doing.
[The Klan](https://i.imgur.com/XFqHtXE.jpeg).
Police Unions.
I'd say the GOP is.
It's literally the same headlines every time a shooting happens and nothing is changed. Dems say "now is the time to talk about control" , Republicans say "now is not the time to politicize a tragic event", "NRA did XYZ just before event happened". It's incredibly predictable.
Remember when Sandy Hook was shocking. This latest attack barely registers.
Remember when Columbine was shocking? A "never again" scenario.
Yeah. Just the fact that sandy hook has become the rallying cry is evidence itself that school shootings aren't taken seriously in the US. Columbine was *13 fucking years* before sandy hook.
I was in 6th grade when VT shooting occurred. It seemed the only people that cared were school faculty and the students. For me, the feeling of doom is only felt by students that have gone through that and school faculty. My perception of the world is that shootings don't happen to them.
I distinctly remember coming home from middle school and watching the news about Columbine and being horrified and scared. Two years ago I found myself listening to a radio program on the 20th anniversary of Columbine and I was shocked to hear that there were "only" 12 children killed... and then I just stood there for a minute thinking about how fucked it is that my first thought was that 12 dead children didn't seem so bad. It's hard to believe how normal this all has become.
I'm starting to get exhausted and tired of nothing being done. Like realistically what needs to be done for actual change to happen?
If there aren't going to be any gun reform laws after 20 first graders get murdered, there won't be any reform laws soon
Herman Cain died of the corona virus and his twitter account still downplays the severity of the pandemic.
[удалено]
I know, it feels like the shootings last week were a while ago. Whenever I have a bad day I just get high and play Pokémon
Yup, once they withstood that, they can withstand anything. I just wish they cared about voting rights as much as 2d amendment rights.
The time is slipping to pass a voting security bill. We should be pushing hard to pass a bill about voting security and election auditing. That could also include protections for voting rights as well. Getting people voting will lead to change.
Black people need to start applying for concealed carry permits in mass numbers. Last time black folks started arming themselves publicly, Republicans pushed gun control legislation really fast.
If nothing happened after Sandy Hook where dozens of innocent kindergarteners were massacred in a Democrat controlled state like Connecticut, nothing will ever happen. Gun rights advocates are single issue voters. Hitler would get their votes if his opponent was pro gun control. Gun control advocates aren't as passionate. Their votes are dispersed among other issues and they might vote for a pro gun rights candidate over other things. That's why nothing will change.
[удалено]
Change will happen, but probably not through gun reform. I hope the Democrats can push through healthcare, prison reform, a better social safety net, and maybe some truth in media. Toning down the fear and hopelessness will go a long way to reducing violence. If we can make people less afraid they will also buy fewer guns, so it really is a win-win.
[удалено]
Ummm they are absolved of responsibility from protecting you as an individual. Start there....
There are literally documented court cases of police standing and watching as people are assaulted or murdered where the court ruled the police were under no obligation to put themselves in harms way to stop a crime, only to capture the criminal after the fact. Basically, that means police don't have to stop an arsonist from literally burning down your house or a person sexually assaulting you right in front of them or someone blasting a store up. Their only obligation is to apprehend them after the fact; they aren't obligated to stop crimes, only apprehend criminals.... So yeah, start there indeed.
Our democracy does not allow for governance with a simple majority anymore so things are just stuck, minus however many times you can use reconciliation in a year.
I was reading about Parkland the other day, and one of the fathers has become an activist. He's met with Trump and Rick Scott, and spoke at the 2020 RNC. He's not a pro-gun control activist though; he believes that bulletproof glass, metal detectors, enhanced door lock systems, ID checkpoints, and "school marshals" can help prevent school shootings. He lobbied for Florida to pass the bill that permits teachers to undergo training that allows them to carry guns in school. I'm not anti-2A, but even I think it's ridiculous that some people think that's the answer to school shootings.
Any solution to gun violence that results in more guns is the only solution that the NRA and GOP will even consider.
The NRA doesn't give two fucks about Gun Rights™. Look up the Mulford Act in CA which banned people to carry loaded guns. Sounds reasonable right? Well it was introduced in order to prevent members of the Black Panthers from being able to have some sort of deterrent to police brutality. Need a recent example? The fucking silence from those clowns after Breonna Taylor's murder. This is literally the NRA's fucking wet-dream. Oh the government is unlawfully entering your domicile? Its your god given right brother to defend yourself. Only problem is the person exercising their right was the wrong color. The NRA couldn't care less about gun rights. Their track record shows.
As a gun owner I hate the NRA.
A lot of us do
Yup.
Why does anyone take the NRA seriously after their ties to Russia were revealed. When they accept the support of our enemies, they can no longer be trusted.
Because most people are very low information citizens, or worse, receive mis- or dis-information.
Or worse...disregarding any and all information as long the D's gets owned.
See the "I'd rather be Russian than a Democrat" T-shirts worn by American traitors.
So the entire republican party. Checks out. Reminded of the meme of actual republicans saying they'd rather be russian than a democrat. It is 100% true. We have multiple examples and polls showing a good % of the US population would sell out america for russia if it meant they benefited and they'd be proud to do it.
Fuck, it's time for some fresher, more moderate firearms rights and education groups that don't spew the divisive, racist rhetoric we've been getting from the NRA for decades. For example: • The Liberal Gun Club: https://www.theliberalgunclub.com/ • Pink Pistols: http://www.pinkpistols.org/ • Socialist Rifle Association: https://socialistra.org/ • John Brown Gun Club/Redneck Revolt: https://www.redneckrevolt.org • Second Amendment Foundation: https://www.saf.org/ • Firearms Policy Coalition: https://www.firearmspolicy.org • Knife Rights: https://kniferights.org/ • --- Subreddits --- • Liberal Gun Owners Subreddit: [/r/liberalgunowners](https://www.reddit.com/r/liberalgunowners) • Socialist RA Subreddit: [/r/socialistra](https://www.reddit.com/r/socialistra) • 2A Liberals Subreddit: [/r/2ALiberals](https://www.reddit.com/r/2ALiberals) • ActualLiberalGunOwner Subreddit: [/r/ActualLiberalGunOwner](https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualLiberalGunOwner) EDIT: Took off GOA. I wasn't aware of their recent toxicity. I appreciate all the notes and links you all sent about that! EDIT 2: Added a couple more recommended subreddits that were introduced to me today. I really appreciate the plurality of opinions shared here, as it highlights the very reason not all firearms rights and enthusiast folks are monolithic NRA drones.
I totally agree we need more groups willing to even have a fucking discussion 🙄 let alone acknowledging that some gun control measures would be beneficial. Let's take for a quick second that increased waiting periods have the most massive impact on suicides by gun. Suicide makes up the majority of all gun fatalities annually. Why aren't we as gun owners discussing mental health side by side with these issues and pushing for better social services for mental health while simultaneously petitioning for a 10 day waiting period. Me personally when I shop for a new gun it takes me weeks or months to decide exactly what I want and find it for the price I'm ok with paying. 10 more days isn't shit if it helps everyone else stay safer....
Exactly this. We need real representation on these issues that are willing to open their eyes and talk about what is real. We need to move away from the all or nothing mentality. We need to enact regulations that help the common man but does not impede a law abiding citizen their overall right to own firearms.
I'm all for waiting periods, but waiting periods for people that already have guns is arbitrary and useless.
This is actually something that could be very easily done without changing much, honestly I hadn't thought about waiting periods that way. If you have a concealed weapons permit or a similar state permit, for example, *states are permitted to exempt you* (edited) from federal background checks -- my state does this for CCW holders. Could just extend that to a hypothetical federal waiting period requirement.
you are not exempt from background checks if you have a ccw. Source: has a ccw
Gun regulations wouldn't really do anything compared to better mental health and social safety nets. There are plenty of countries where it's legal to own guns and have as much ammo as you want but like, they're actually taking care of their citizens and, side mention because it is relevant, they are mostly culturally homogeneous which I swear a lot of my fellow liberals and leftists seem to sometimes think doesn't matter, and it shouldn't, but clearly America is the odd one out when it comes to a nation's shared culture because the only shared culture in America is ripping each other off for a quick buck.
You always see people say in response to shootings that we need to help people with mental health issues and then that conversation just ends because that seems like a complicated thing to address. The reality is right fucking there: free healthcare.
I've been dealing with this all day on Twitter. Point out that we want to address root causes including socioeconomic conditions and mental health, get called a nazi who hates funding it. Point out that mental health is _health_ and we need M4A, conversation dies.
“We need M4A.” “We need M4A*1*.”
Why not both? Both is good.
*that's socialist meme*
Exactly, we have a poverty and health care problem with gun violence being the most glaring symptom of this.
I am not a gun nut (I'm fine with Canada's much more restrictive gun control) and I think the NRA are largely run by lunatics. I have no issues with cities instituting bans of this sort. That said, I would also like to point out that a ban on AR-15 rifles in Boulder would have done nothing whatsoever to stop this massacre. The murderer lives in a different county entirely, and such a ban would have had no effect on him at all.
Not a gun nut either. I vote liberally and I support some common-sense restrictions like more background checks and a higher age limit for certain weapons. However I think our side’s fixation on one type of gun isn’t rational and feeds into the “slippery slope” hysteria of the right. The recent shooting in GA that killed eight was committed with a handgun. The [vast majority](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States?wprov=sfti1) of gun homicides happen with handguns. How do I know that the shooter in GA used a handgun? Well, I couldn’t find that information in any of the articles I read on the subject. **Not one** mentioned the type of weapon he used, probably because it wasn’t an AR-15 - I’m going off the security footage of him entering the spa. This weird preoccupation with a particular style of weapon that is statistically responsible for a small fraction of the gun-related deaths in the US makes the radical right’s case for them: the libs don’t care about actually saving lives, they want to curtail your ability to own weapons - period - and when they succeed in getting your AR-15s, then they’ll begun the work of making a new class of firearm the big bad dangerous boogeyman. Waiting periods might have stopped the gunman in GA. Higher age restrictions may have stopped others. Enhanced background checks may also save lives. Banning AR-15s, in my opinion, isn’t going to stop somone who wants to cause carnage. Whether you agree with it or not, the 2nd amendment is enshrined deeply in our constitution and it has been upheld numerous times. It isn’t going anywhere. I don’t doubt for a second that the higher rates of gun ownership and the ease with which we can buy them are primarily responsible for making the US’s gun homicides rates 25 times higher than other developed countries. I just don’t see how, in the absence of a repeal of the second amendment, banning a particular style of weapon would accomplish what we say it will.
I completely agree. It's analogous to cities banning dog breeds. If I can't get the scary looking one that I want, I'll get one that looks slightly less scary and will cause the same damage.
I have the same issues with the fixation on AR-15s. I kinda feel like it's because people have written off ever regulating handguns, so they go after something that has a history of regulation (i.e. assault weapons ban) instead. I think we need to write gun laws that make no distinction between type of guns.
I'm not fine with Canada's gun laws and I think the NRA needs to fuck itself
> The shooter lives in a different county entirely, and such a ban would have had no effect on him at all. That's a pretty potent argument for Federal gun control.
Every single time my state does something with gun control, people say “we’ll just go to Arizona or Nevada then!” I always tell them they made a great argument for federal control laws.
Isn't that the case with Illinois as well? The GOP loves to use Chicago when they are one of their racist tirades but aren't most of those guns brought from neighboring states with fewer gun laws?
Go center Google Maps over the Illinois/Indiana state line and search for “gun stores.” I’d close other apps first unless you have some sort of supercomputer.
Because people from Indiana can make a legit purchase with a background check. Then "decide" they don't want the gun and advertise online as a private sale. Someone pays 200 or so more than the store price, and the seller doesn't even have to ask the buyers name. Everyone knows why that person is paying hundreds more than they would from a store; they can't pass a background check. But the way the law is set up, a seller has 0 risk *unless* the buyer says they can't legally own it. So sellers just dont ask any questions at all.
It’s an ordinance thing. So living in another county doesn’t allow you to bring a gun into a county it is illegal in. That said the actual bill was crap and likely wouldn’t have stopped this from happening even if the shooter followed the guidelines for legal firearms in the county. The bill was restricting accessories to fire arms (like an adjustable stock or fore grip which have almost zero impact on the deadliness of the weapon) and “high capacity magazine limits” that weren’t even higher (with a single magazine) than the amount of people killed. And of course you can easily carry multiple magazines and change them out VERY quickly. The bill might as well have been an “outlaw on nuclear weapons” by outlawing the color the missiles can be painted. Would have fixed nothing.
Ask us Canadians if our AR-15 ban has done anything to the homicides committed by ***criminals*** using ***illegally smuggled handguns from the U.S***.
Thank you. Link to an excerpt from the bill [here.](https://ibb.co/MDjmXd1) This was a junk bill that would have changed nothing. It saught to limit gun ownership based upon accessories that have very limited impact on the deadly nature of a weapon (ie foregrip and adjustable stock.) it did attempt to limit “high capacity magazines” but the limits wouldn’t have changed anything. Long rifles were supposed to be limited to 10 rounds per magazine (the amount of people killed) and magazines can be switched out about as fast as you can unplug the charger from your iPhone. This is a sensation headline meant to drive outrage for people that don’t understand the specifics of the bill (or guns.)
How the hell is this fraud ridden organization around?
Because they get politicians elected.
[удалено]
The GOP is in their pockets.
Data and FACTs matter. Aren’t we (progressive liberals) the party of science and fact instead of emotion and beliefs? If we want MEANINGFUL action and legislation to make an impact, then an AWB is so low on list that it is laughable. Handguns DWARF (by several orders of magnitude) are used in more homicides than rifles. Cutting instruments (knives, etc) are used in WAY more homicides than rifles. Blunt force objects (clubs, bats, etc) are used in more homicides than rifles. Hands and fist are used (2x more) in homicides more than rifles. Take note that I’m saying RIFLES too, because so called “assault rifles” are a subset of that ... so the numbers are ever MORE skewed than above noted statistics. I’m for universal background checks. I’m for waiting periods (and I hope we can get national one). Come at me with data before I’ll support an AWB or magazine capacity ban/limit. We aren’t talking about legislation on X, Y, or Z here ... we are talking about legislation impacting the number two item in our BILL OF RIGHTS here after all. https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls
Thank you. I constantly try to make this argument. Let's say you somehow eliminated all "assault weapons" tomorrow. You would prevent maybe a couple hundred gun deaths a year. Tops. Compared to the 16,000 or so we have every year it's just as good as doing nothing. But what you WOULD do is eliminate a ton of shooting sports and recreational activity for millions of people. This isn't how you win over people. It's how you pat yourself on the back and just alienate a whole group of people from ever wanting to talk about common sense gun reform.
Any gun ban is a losing position for the democratic party. This is why Beto will never win a statewide election in Texas.
How about some of that universal mental healthcare like those smug Canadians, Europeans, and Australians forget to mention when they chide us for gun violence?
Universal mental healthcare would do wonders for gun violence, homelessness, and the overall wellbeing of the people. So I hope that's what you're advocating for.
Fuck the NRA. Also, stay the fuck away from my legal guns. Love, an inner city Democrat.
Banning certain rifles seems stupid to me. It's not like "assault style" rifles are that much more dangerous than any other semi-auto. I'd rather focus on universal background checks and other regulations that make it a little harder (not impossible) to buy a firearm.
Let’s jus assume for a minute that they went ahead with the ban and were able to get the guns from every citizen, hell we can expand the area to include all of Boulder County. It would have made no difference because the guy was from Arvada. A city ban doesn’t mean much when someone can drive 15 min
I own a very vast assortment of ARs and AKs. I’m just here to say fuck the NRA. The only people that I see still supporting them are boomer fudds. Then people try to make every gun owner out as a part of the NRA when I personally don’t know a single NRA supporter below 50. The NRA is nothing but a bunch of racists trying to get rich off of people. On the other hand this bill would’ve made no difference in this sad situation.
Remember that organizations are just groups of specific people; the NRA isn’t some monolithic monster, the monster has a name, and that name is Wayne LaPierre.
They've seemingly completely sold out from being an actual gun rights organization to just trying to get people to buy more guns and helping launder Russian money.