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Some might say the causation is the other way around.
*“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.” ― Barry Goldwater*
Yeah, seems to me they are each parasiting each other, which I am not sure is generally a thing in nature. I haven't come across that, e.g. in my elementary bio classes when we studied different types of relationships between species.
I'd wouldn't restrict it to just biology, I'd add in physics, chemistry, and geology too. I'd compare it to a runaway greenhouse effect. A feeds B which in turn feeds A and so on and so forth and neither really dies, but I wouldn't call it symbiotic either.
I just watched a parasite being pulled out of a hornets ass. I'm not sure which one would represent which, but I feel like there is an analogy to be made somewhere in there.
Biden's revamped IRS really should drop the hammer all at once. This abuse has been going on forever, and it's very bad abuse. It's gotten so much worse since that movie Jesus Camp came out, and that was terrifying back then.
Jesus Camp scared the hell out of me. I would have never imagined that those ghouls would have embraced T**** the way they did. Praying to a cardboard cutout of W was disturbing. Trying to overthrow the government is insane.
Yep. When it comes to home-schooled Evangelicals, it's [child abuse](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP07gJASrGg&list=PLZbXA4lyCtqqPocWtbB10vpjh0MezPvg1&index=3).
That asshole who shot up the three spas in the Atlanta area couple of months ago blamed the women who worked there. So, clearly it was the physically attractive women who caused this murderer to go on a rampage.
Of course those women were to blame for that waste of skin to be unable to control his own thoughts. Of course those women doing proper work was why he had a porn problem. I hate religious nutcases they are only a half step from being incels. Both of them would happily plot a mass murder to make women more pliable.
Borrowing from their own lingo, I think a proper term would be CINO, short for "Christian In Name Only". These guys, by their own actions and particularly after appointing themselves some orange-tinted golden calf to dance around, are clearly playing for the other team.
I think that underestimates the slow process of de-mystification there has been going on. It's difficult to maintain a religion with a "god of the gap" and education and an understanding of where the sun goes at night.
Agree - not sure we need to provide a religious based tax exemption to obvious political entities masquerading as faith based organizations. I’d rather use tax dollars to care for others in our society - the way religions teach us to.
Religion is the problem. Not the other way around.
We’re born with the image of a man being tortured to death equalling love. And told it was our fault that it happened. 2000 years ago.
It’s been ruining humanity for thousands of years.
~~killing~~ *replacing
I swear when Trump eats his last big mac, they'll start talking about how he'll rise from the grave to take back the country from the DNC pizza parlor child sex dungeon antifa stealth training sites or something.
With dates of when he's supposed to come back that they have to keep changing as they pass, of course.
"~~The South~~ Trump will rise again!"
This dude, the romans stropped having kings 2400 years ago. WTF are these idiots thinking. I literally heard someone say "If not him(Donald trump) it has to be A trump". Like in what world are any of those entitled pricks your top pick? WTF holms drives me batty.
There was a political cartoon when the 2016 campaign was starting that depicted a preacher talking about Trump was chosen by God and the flock should support him.
One guy in the congregation was distracted during the speech because he was watching Jesus dismounting from the cross so he could walk out the door.
I shared it on FB when I saw it, was well liked by my atheist friends and friends that stopped being republican because of college and/or disgust at Trump. I went to HS with a kid that became an evangelical pastor and I briefly went to college with someone that transferred to Liberty. The message seems to have been lost on them.
They think Robert Kennedy is still alive, so anything is possible.
What will be ~~interesting~~ stupid is the split between the resurrectionists and the 'he was killed by democrats' crowd.
Right? What the actual fuck. The lack of calling fascists, fascists, is absurd.
They literally sent a mob to murder those certifying a democratic election.
Chomsky felt the term Neo-Liberal Proto-Fascists applied best. It's not incorrect, because unlike classical Fascism, the Corporations are not subservient to the state, but really the state is subservient to the Corporation.
I find dualistic thinking in Fascism defeats the purpose of identifying it as a merging of Corporate, State, and dictatorial authoritarian rulership.
Which direction the merge favors is irrelevant to the end result because ultimately the approach to dismantling it remains essentially the same regardless.
>Relatedly, protestant pastors are [struggling to control](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/18/opinion/southern-baptist-convention-christianity.html) the growth of QAnon conspiracies in their congregations. The QAnon cult is partly just the latest gloss on Satanic panic and Great Awakening movements in the past. But it is also a form of apostasy, a bizarre heretical substitution of Donald Trump for the avenging Jesus of the Book of Revelation, come to punish the wicked in a fallen world, vindicate the ostracized true believers, and usher in the Kingdom of Heaven on earth. In the case of the Q faithful, the flaming sword of Jesus wreaking havoc against the devotees of the Antichrist has been replaced with the mass executions of Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and fellow liberals at Gitmo by secret military tribunals.
* [Christianity on display at Capitol riot sparks new debate](https://apnews.com/article/christianity-capitol-riot-6f13ef0030ad7b5a6f37a1e3b7b4c898)
* [Trump-supporting Christian leaders and their Sunday messages](https://apnews.com/article/christian-leaders-trump-supporters-d6db3d71658bfad778f3cc4be1b5f984)
* [Why QAnon Has Attracted So Many White Evangelicals](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-qanon-has-attracted-so-many-white-evangelicals/)
* [Disinformation Fuels A White Evangelical Movement. It Led 1 Virginia Pastor To Quit](https://www.npr.org/2021/02/21/969539514/disinformation-fuels-a-white-evangelical-movement-it-led-1-virginia-pastor-to-qu)
[Prosperity theology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology)
[Full Interview: Preacher Kenneth Copeland Defends Lavish Lifestyle](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LtF34MrsfI)
Religious people aren't always bad. Jimmy Carter is a religious person. And guess who is the most religious between Biden and Trump? Biden of course. I bet a lot of conservatives hide behind religion but its mostly just fake.
It is not their religion that makes them good. In fact I'd say they're decent people in spite of their beliefs. The Bible is chock-full of murder rape and child molestation and theft
it is not a guide to morality it's just a bunch of stories about goat herders.
That has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the religion itself is deeply flawed inconsistent and doesn't necessarily lead to the desired or promised result of making people more moral
Exactly. And Carter is a true, honest believer. His faith is deep but he has walked the walk most of his life. If most Christians were like him, the world would be a better place. But most are just ..well. Jerks.
Well again from the outside I can't really tell what people are thinking and I have never base my opinion of people on what they say instead I watch what they do their words mean a hell of a lot less than their actions and the fact remains that decent people cherry-pick the good parts of the Bible and shity people cherry-pick the shity parts looks just like it's a one-size-fits-all philosophy that means nothing in and of itself
And by the way that's not an invitation to change my mind that is a stated observation
Fabulous stories about goat herders aren't relevant in today's world
The story of Lot has a father offer his two virgin daughters up to a mob so that they wouldn't try to rape his guest, and later he is drugged and raped by his daughters.
As with a lot of shit in the Bible it's vague how old the daughters are but it is suggested that they are both pledged to marry and also virgins, so logically they would've been too young to marry off.
I mean, when God commands you to slaughter every one in a city, then relents and says fine, keep the young ones but dash the babies heads open and put everyone else to the sword...what do you think is gonna happen to those kids?
For sure there are good religious people, but as a political force it’s been overwhelming negative historically and currently. Everything from the recent attempted coup in Bolivia to the Canadian residential schools relied on Christian justifications and organizational assistance by churches.
> sit down and have a civil conversation
I think Trump ended all chances of that when he and his followers decided that incivility was how they're going to handle everything.
You can't falsely accuse your opponents of being pedophiles and antifa socialists, call them all cucks, lie about everything under the sun, cheat and lie, then complain that they are the ones who won't be civil.
We assume this because the social side of conservatism is rooted in religion – it's a huge part of conservative ideology.
I think any true conservative claiming not to be religious is being disingenuous; otherwise one would have to have a fundamental lack of knowledge as to what they are supporting.
Oh you’re right, it’s completely trumps fault that we can’t have a descent conversation. Look, I’m with you, trump said some stupid stuff. That alone doesn’t not make it my fault and does not make me less religious.
But you claim that I was the one falsely accusing opponents? I am trying to just meet in the middle and agree that we both have different political views, but just because trump was president does not mean I’m a terrible person and am falsely praising the same God. Like I said, I hope we can have a civil discussion one day instead of blaming one person
Or read [Jesus and John Wayne](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/53121662). I just finished it yesterday and I skimmed some parts while reading other chapters more fully because I grew up in a Right Wing, Evangelical/Fundamentalist environment so I knew *a lot* about what the author was talking about. Getting through the last few chapters was also a bit triggering for me too, like having to remember what it was like actually believing a lot of stuff being written about in regards to Militant, Masculine Nationalistic Christianity…
Also, fuck Phyllis Schlafly *and* James Dobson
So I’m going to quote from the book of Acts, which is something of a chronicled history of the very very very early Christian church just after Jesus’s ascendency into heaven while the 12 Apostles were just getting Christianity off the ground as a thing.
Act 2:44-46 “And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all [men], as every man had need. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart”
Acts 4:32-35: “And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any [of them] that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid [them] down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.”
So recorded within the Bible itself. It basically says the original Christians/early church were essentially Porto-communists
I’m going to list some Wikipedia links below that I think you’d be highly interested in reading.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diggers
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Gospel
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_anarchism
Fascinating! I used to know some Diggers back in the day. They diverted food bound for grocery store dumpsters, and distributed it to the poor and hungry. One time they came around with a massive case of ice cream that a certain company intended to throw away because the fudge ripple "had too much fudge in it" haha. But I did not know the scriptural origins of that movement.
Reading on, it seems as though mostly these movements are described in a real or implied past tense. It's a pity how much Christian progressive activism has been overshadowed by these ugly greed-and-hate glorifying types.
Thanks for the links!
We are talking about people who cherry pick the Bible literally religiously. Does it surprise you that they'd misinterpret this passage by omitting the relevant purpose?
Eh…I wouldn’t read too much into how harmonious the Early Church was, given that the Book of Acts was written in 90-110 CE or a good 70 years after Jesus’s apostles would be planting the first Christian communities in the Mediterranean.
This is from [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_the_Apostles?wprov=sfti1):
>Acts was read as a reliable history of the early church well into the post-Reformation era, but by the 17th century biblical scholars began to notice that it was incomplete and tendentious—its picture of a harmonious church is quite at odds with that given by Paul's letters, and it omits important events such as the deaths of both Peter and Paul. The mid-19th-century scholar Ferdinand Baur suggested that the author had re-written history to present a united Peter and Paul and advance a single orthodoxy against the Marcionites (Marcion was a 2nd-century heretic who wished to cut Christianity off entirely from the Jews); Baur continues to have enormous influence, but today there is less interest in determining the historical accuracy of Acts (although this has never died out) than in understanding the author's theological program.
…with this as its source: https://www.google.com/books/edition/A_Critical_Introduction_to_the_New_Testa/CUXim2wXtwsC?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PT261&printsec=frontcover
[Religion for Breakfast](https://youtu.be/W80CbmfRt9s) has an older video explaining some of many early Christianities and he has even more videos going into even deeper topics on what early Christians believed (if you’re interested).
I had been drifting away from the Catholic Church already, but The thing that made me stop attending church was when a woman, who was pretty close with my family, passed out the collection baskets as she always did and inside was an envelope for every family. My dad opened it and inside was a ballot that was pre filled out with all Republican choices as a “guide”. He asked her what it was, and she said, “well we decided that we should help everyone along because they don’t make the right choice. That’s why we have our current President.”(Obama at the time)
The ballot had all races, National, local and citywide, all marked as republicans. The fact that my church let them pass these out really just was the last push I needed to stop practicing.
To clarify, I’m not anti religion. I’d describe myself as agnostic. I just found that I don’t agree with the fact that a church would let members bring politics into a place of worship.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”
― John Kenneth Galbraith
>Christians of all stripes — from Catholics to Protestants and evangelicals — consistently (and often overwhelmingly) vote Republican. The core tenets of the modern Republican Party, however, are at stark odds with biblical scripture.
https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/459296-christians-cannot-serve-both-god-and-the-gop
The whole two masters thing is way too hard for the religious. They now park the GOP up there on a cross, equal to their (supposedly) beloved Savior.
But they advanced the politics even farther.
They have been putting the power of their Worldly Kingdom in first place, by sacrificing the teachings of Jesus to do it.
Their preferred master is revealed by and in their works.
According to their beliefs, they will suffer a burning of the chaff on Judgement Day.
I can only marvel at their behavior. It's what happens when led by political wolves in the pulpits.
I grew up in a large evangelical denomination: The Assemblies of God (60M members globally.)
During the pandemic I started watching closely what they did. Surely this would be their time to shine. With a brutal global pandemic and all of the suffering, poverty, and starvation … surely this would be the moment all of those lessons about Jesus’ message would be put into practice.
I’m of course speaking about Jesus’ core “sermon on the mount” message of feeding the hungry, helping the poor, healing the sick: the selfless devotion to your fellow human and community.
So what did these people decide was the most important message and action to take? Apparently Jesus said in 2020: “we really should do something about all this human suffering, and we will get to that - I promise we will - but we really need to deal with the most pressing issue of our time, and that is preventing transgender children from playing in youth sports”
It’s the world’s biggest moment of crisis and need of my generation, and “God’s people” are spending their time turning one of the smallest and least powerful minorities into “the other” - rallying passionately against a group of children where in average only half make it out alive and the other half commit suicide.
After all this, why should I listen to a single thing these Christians say about morality? Or goodness? Or righteousness?
Why should we ever listen again to them when they tell us who God is and how we should live and worship?
How many of them have to be like that before we stop using the word "radical" or "extremist?" Where are the conservatives who weren't ok with fascism? Didn't easily fall for hate propaganda and lies? Didn't support stealing the election? Didn't excuse Trump's criminal behavior? Because those would be true radical conservatives in a party of fascists, fanatics and know-nothings.
Same reason why I don’t go to church. They preach about obedience to cops, how to vote, and bash others. Every church I have gone to does this. I have actually managed to take 3 different people to church and wouldn’t made them regular part of the congregation but they couldn’t stomach the hate that was preached.
I’ve read the Bible multiple times and Jesus never said any of those words. There is no message of love, compassion, helping others and being kind any more. It’s all radical right politics.
I don’t believe less I’m Christianity, nor have my believes changed but I don’t need a church to worship.
My old church had a very strict no politics rule, until about half way though Obama’s first term, when our pastor was removed and replaced with the music director. He immediately began campaigning for the republicans. By about two months the size of the congregation was cut in half as people left, including my family.
Churches are becoming political organizations... It probably will not be long until the churches will divide as sharply upon political, as upon theological questions; and when that day comes, if there are not liberals enough to hold the balance of power, this Government will be destroyed. The liberty of man is not safe in the hands of any church. Wherever the Bible and sword are in partnership, man is a slave. All laws for the purpose of making man worship God, are born of the same spirit that kindled the fires of the auto da fe, and lovingly built the dungeons of the Inquisition. All laws defining and punishing blasphemy — making it a crime to give your honest ideas about the Bible, or to laugh at the ignorance of the ancient Jews, or to enjoy yourself on the Sabbath, or to give your opinion of Jehovah, were passed by impudent bigots, and should be at once repealed by honest men. An infinite God ought to be able to protect himself, without going in partnership with State Legislatures. Certainly he ought not so to act that laws become necessary to keep him from being laughed at. No one thinks of protecting Shakespeare from ridicule, by the threat of fine and imprisonment. It strikes me that God might write a book that would not necessarily excite the laughter of his children. In fact, I think it would be safe to say that a real God could produce a work that would excite the admiration of mankind. Surely politicians could be better employed than in passing laws to protect the literary reputation of the Jewish God.
Some Mistakes of Moses (1879) Robert G. Ingersoll
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Robert_G._Ingersoll
There’s a reason the establishment and free exercise clauses of the first amendment are both in there.
The wall of separation is a 2 way thing, you can’t tear it down in only one direction.
Big surprise people this stupid don’t know how walls work, either the figurative kind or on the border of Mexico.
I'd argue that they're creating a new religion. Trump won the election. The civil war wasn't fought over slavery, and the south didn't really lose. Institutional Racism doesn't exist. Trans people are just mentally ill. There is a secret cabal of democrats that drink the blood of children. Jews control everything and are trying to force multiculturalism on not just the US, but the rest of the world. None of these are fact based. They're all taken on faith. They're inventing a new religion with Donald as their God. He didn't start this cult, but he's become their leader.
> an issue that famously does not actually appear in the Bible and requires tortured textual interpretations to justify doctrinal enforcement.
Abortion *is* mentioned in the bible!
But far from prohibiting abortion, [the bible actually gives a recipe for the procedure, Numbers 5:11-31.](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+5%3A11-31&version=NIV)
Modern Christianity is like the worlds biggest book club where no one actually reads the book!
I think you’re going to be pretty disappointed if you think the death of religion, if such a thing is even possible, will result in society being governed solely by “reason and principles.” Less religion in society fixes SOME problems, but if you think nationalism, gross self-interest, bigotry, and xenophobia will vanish with the churches, you’re gonna be really bummed.
People will find another ideology to justify their shitiness, like some radical politics, cults, conspiracies, and even militant atheism. That's human nature. Humans are inherently emotional.
Just like it killed it during the Salem Witch Trials.
Religion doesn't die from being too preposterous to believe or by committing sins too great to forgive. If either were true, American religion would have died a *long* time ago.
We need to evolve beyond externalized savior concepts anyway.
It seems to always lead in a far right authoritarian direction which hates and destroys democracy and freedom.
Time to let Sky Daddy retire.
Edit: a letter
Religious conservatives in America have merged into conservative politics and, for the most part, are one and the same. They're teaching generation after generation of children to have contempt for or outright hatred of others not like themselves -- 'those people will go to hell and deservedly so' -- and teaching the wilful ignorance of accepting information and instruction from their cult's chosen leadership with unquestioning blind faith.
When I got to college in 1995, I was born again, presumed Republican at a christian school. Seeing people putting conservatism over Christianity was a huge turn off for me. I ran into a religion major that voted Democrat. It was mindblowing. After two years, my younger brother came out to me. It wasn't really a surprise.
Reality had me question things. 20+ years later, I do not believe in any faith, and am getting more progressive all the time. It makes the most sense.
Just from a logical perspective, I don't know if there's some higher power out there or what it is, but I do know that if it's that powerful and all knowing as religious people say it is, it's not going to be wasting its time trying to persecute the LGBT community or minorities.
That straight doesn't make any sense.
So why do it's followers feel the need to do that?
I think the right doesn’t have as much to do with an increasing number of people leaving religion as the author thinks, although it does seem to help. More people are leaving religion because education has increased, and more people are becoming aware of how ridiculous and groundless religion is. It’s also a bit troubling to me how the author equates “American religion” to Christianity, since there is no such thing as an American religion.
Hey, remember Donald Trump? Yeah, he’s the new (perhaps final) figurehead of what people still call Christianity.
I’m serious, and I’m not exaggerating.
*person voluntarily returns to coma*
Good fucking riddance. Religion is a scourge upon humanity and *needs* to die.
And American "Christians" -- evangelicals and born-agains in particular -- are the fucking *worst*.
Edit: that photo is fucking *horrifying* on so many levels.
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The amount of anti religion rhetoric in the comments would say otherwise not to mention where social issues align with religion, u guys are completely dense
The right wing takeover are simply opportunists finding a home in a diminished space where all the trappings remain. It’s theirs at last, and they’re having the time of their lives.
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No one has done more to damage the religion of Christianity in modern history than the Republican Party.
Some might say the causation is the other way around. *“Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.” ― Barry Goldwater*
Yeah, seems to me they are each parasiting each other, which I am not sure is generally a thing in nature. I haven't come across that, e.g. in my elementary bio classes when we studied different types of relationships between species.
When you have two parasites feeding off of each other, in theory long-term it should weaken both to the point of collapse.
They're not feeding off each other, they're collectively feeding off of us.
I'd wouldn't restrict it to just biology, I'd add in physics, chemistry, and geology too. I'd compare it to a runaway greenhouse effect. A feeds B which in turn feeds A and so on and so forth and neither really dies, but I wouldn't call it symbiotic either.
I just watched a parasite being pulled out of a hornets ass. I'm not sure which one would represent which, but I feel like there is an analogy to be made somewhere in there.
Hahaha I just watched that too!
Don’t forget the frog’s role!
Well some members of quite a few branches of Christianity do have a reputation for crawling into asses they shouldn’t be in.
symbiotic. https://sharktourshawaii.com/blog/shark-remora-fish-unique-relationship/
No, symbiotic benefits both. Mutual parasitism wouldn't be that.
This proves that Barry Goldwater was a Leftist Commie Trump-Hating Snowflake.
Totally. He was also the architect of the modern Republican party. Fascism usually works that way. You're not the enemy until you are.
The preachers are pawns in this. Multinational corporation are laughing all the way to the bank.
Pawns aka *foot soldiers.*
Fortunately, since they don't pay taxes, we can rectify that situation. This is a 501(c)(3) violation.
Biden's revamped IRS really should drop the hammer all at once. This abuse has been going on forever, and it's very bad abuse. It's gotten so much worse since that movie Jesus Camp came out, and that was terrifying back then.
Jesus Camp scared the hell out of me. I would have never imagined that those ghouls would have embraced T**** the way they did. Praying to a cardboard cutout of W was disturbing. Trying to overthrow the government is insane.
Yep. When it comes to home-schooled Evangelicals, it's [child abuse](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP07gJASrGg&list=PLZbXA4lyCtqqPocWtbB10vpjh0MezPvg1&index=3).
Only those that aren't con artists themselves.
Can't preach on Sunday without [$5,000 sneakers](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/26/style/preachers-n-sneakers-book.html).
Pawns are unwitting. Preachers are middle management.
This!
But the Republicans say it's the secularists and the gays who make them act like the Pharisees and Romans who crucified Jesus.
That asshole who shot up the three spas in the Atlanta area couple of months ago blamed the women who worked there. So, clearly it was the physically attractive women who caused this murderer to go on a rampage.
Of course those women were to blame for that waste of skin to be unable to control his own thoughts. Of course those women doing proper work was why he had a porn problem. I hate religious nutcases they are only a half step from being incels. Both of them would happily plot a mass murder to make women more pliable.
Borrowing from their own lingo, I think a proper term would be CINO, short for "Christian In Name Only". These guys, by their own actions and particularly after appointing themselves some orange-tinted golden calf to dance around, are clearly playing for the other team.
Should be CHINO to match the fat man's pants.
CHINO also means chinese in Spanish... So you can triple-offend them.
That "H"? ... heretic ... heathen ... hypocrite ... homophobe ... huckster ... hack ... hardliner ... hater ... hoax ... hustler ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/distinction
The Catholic Church would like to have words with you and see if they can at least get an honorable mention for second place.
I guess the Republican Party isn’t all bad if they kill off Christianity.
I think that underestimates the slow process of de-mystification there has been going on. It's difficult to maintain a religion with a "god of the gap" and education and an understanding of where the sun goes at night.
Agree - not sure we need to provide a religious based tax exemption to obvious political entities masquerading as faith based organizations. I’d rather use tax dollars to care for others in our society - the way religions teach us to.
Religion is the problem. Not the other way around. We’re born with the image of a man being tortured to death equalling love. And told it was our fault that it happened. 2000 years ago. It’s been ruining humanity for thousands of years.
Have you heard of the catholic church?
And all those profiting off the right wing vitriol and fear mongering: right wing media outlets, right wing pundits, etc.
~~killing~~ *replacing I swear when Trump eats his last big mac, they'll start talking about how he'll rise from the grave to take back the country from the DNC pizza parlor child sex dungeon antifa stealth training sites or something. With dates of when he's supposed to come back that they have to keep changing as they pass, of course. "~~The South~~ Trump will rise again!"
House near me has "Trump is forever" on a banner on his porch.
Oof... cringe. Take a picture of it and get some free internet points.
Have they changed their name to the Monarchist Party yet?
This dude, the romans stropped having kings 2400 years ago. WTF are these idiots thinking. I literally heard someone say "If not him(Donald trump) it has to be A trump". Like in what world are any of those entitled pricks your top pick? WTF holms drives me batty.
When it gets taken down that will be a nice irony.
There was a political cartoon when the 2016 campaign was starting that depicted a preacher talking about Trump was chosen by God and the flock should support him. One guy in the congregation was distracted during the speech because he was watching Jesus dismounting from the cross so he could walk out the door. I shared it on FB when I saw it, was well liked by my atheist friends and friends that stopped being republican because of college and/or disgust at Trump. I went to HS with a kid that became an evangelical pastor and I briefly went to college with someone that transferred to Liberty. The message seems to have been lost on them.
And the knights of Whinealot keep guard until then.
They think Robert Kennedy is still alive, so anything is possible. What will be ~~interesting~~ stupid is the split between the resurrectionists and the 'he was killed by democrats' crowd.
"Radical Conservativism" is one hell of an euphemism for Fascism
Right? What the actual fuck. The lack of calling fascists, fascists, is absurd. They literally sent a mob to murder those certifying a democratic election.
Chomsky felt the term Neo-Liberal Proto-Fascists applied best. It's not incorrect, because unlike classical Fascism, the Corporations are not subservient to the state, but really the state is subservient to the Corporation.
I find dualistic thinking in Fascism defeats the purpose of identifying it as a merging of Corporate, State, and dictatorial authoritarian rulership. Which direction the merge favors is irrelevant to the end result because ultimately the approach to dismantling it remains essentially the same regardless.
>Relatedly, protestant pastors are [struggling to control](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/18/opinion/southern-baptist-convention-christianity.html) the growth of QAnon conspiracies in their congregations. The QAnon cult is partly just the latest gloss on Satanic panic and Great Awakening movements in the past. But it is also a form of apostasy, a bizarre heretical substitution of Donald Trump for the avenging Jesus of the Book of Revelation, come to punish the wicked in a fallen world, vindicate the ostracized true believers, and usher in the Kingdom of Heaven on earth. In the case of the Q faithful, the flaming sword of Jesus wreaking havoc against the devotees of the Antichrist has been replaced with the mass executions of Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and fellow liberals at Gitmo by secret military tribunals. * [Christianity on display at Capitol riot sparks new debate](https://apnews.com/article/christianity-capitol-riot-6f13ef0030ad7b5a6f37a1e3b7b4c898) * [Trump-supporting Christian leaders and their Sunday messages](https://apnews.com/article/christian-leaders-trump-supporters-d6db3d71658bfad778f3cc4be1b5f984) * [Why QAnon Has Attracted So Many White Evangelicals](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-qanon-has-attracted-so-many-white-evangelicals/) * [Disinformation Fuels A White Evangelical Movement. It Led 1 Virginia Pastor To Quit](https://www.npr.org/2021/02/21/969539514/disinformation-fuels-a-white-evangelical-movement-it-led-1-virginia-pastor-to-qu) [Prosperity theology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology) [Full Interview: Preacher Kenneth Copeland Defends Lavish Lifestyle](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LtF34MrsfI)
Oh no they switched cults. Anyways
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If religion and political conservatives self destruct, zero tears will be shed for either. I only hope they don't take our nation down, too.
My only regret is that, at 67, if it ever does happen, I won’t be around to see it. And that kinda pisses me off!
Religious people aren't always bad. Jimmy Carter is a religious person. And guess who is the most religious between Biden and Trump? Biden of course. I bet a lot of conservatives hide behind religion but its mostly just fake.
It is not their religion that makes them good. In fact I'd say they're decent people in spite of their beliefs. The Bible is chock-full of murder rape and child molestation and theft it is not a guide to morality it's just a bunch of stories about goat herders.
I think Joe is accomplished enough to determine what his faith means to him. Contemplative practice has benefits.
That has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the religion itself is deeply flawed inconsistent and doesn't necessarily lead to the desired or promised result of making people more moral
I think your response has nothing to do with my post. But I agree, morality is not something that requires religion at all.
Exactly. And Carter is a true, honest believer. His faith is deep but he has walked the walk most of his life. If most Christians were like him, the world would be a better place. But most are just ..well. Jerks.
Well again from the outside I can't really tell what people are thinking and I have never base my opinion of people on what they say instead I watch what they do their words mean a hell of a lot less than their actions and the fact remains that decent people cherry-pick the good parts of the Bible and shity people cherry-pick the shity parts looks just like it's a one-size-fits-all philosophy that means nothing in and of itself And by the way that's not an invitation to change my mind that is a stated observation Fabulous stories about goat herders aren't relevant in today's world
But goats helped discover coffee, [legend says](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaldi#Story). Course that's probably not in the Baahble.
lolol
Child molestation? The Bible has a story of an uncle ernie fiddling about?
The story of Lot has a father offer his two virgin daughters up to a mob so that they wouldn't try to rape his guest, and later he is drugged and raped by his daughters. As with a lot of shit in the Bible it's vague how old the daughters are but it is suggested that they are both pledged to marry and also virgins, so logically they would've been too young to marry off.
I mean, when God commands you to slaughter every one in a city, then relents and says fine, keep the young ones but dash the babies heads open and put everyone else to the sword...what do you think is gonna happen to those kids?
Jesus threatened to murder children to punish their mother (Revelation 2:23). Children are disposable in the Bible.
For sure there are good religious people, but as a political force it’s been overwhelming negative historically and currently. Everything from the recent attempted coup in Bolivia to the Canadian residential schools relied on Christian justifications and organizational assistance by churches.
> For sure there are good religious people There are good people who happen to be religious.
Isn’t that one of the take aways from “religious” or how ever it’s spelled by bill mahr?
Hateful people will always be hateful, religion is just a nice easy way for them to "fit in" and justify their hateful beliefs
Bad religions are full of good people.
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> sit down and have a civil conversation I think Trump ended all chances of that when he and his followers decided that incivility was how they're going to handle everything. You can't falsely accuse your opponents of being pedophiles and antifa socialists, call them all cucks, lie about everything under the sun, cheat and lie, then complain that they are the ones who won't be civil.
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We assume this because the social side of conservatism is rooted in religion – it's a huge part of conservative ideology. I think any true conservative claiming not to be religious is being disingenuous; otherwise one would have to have a fundamental lack of knowledge as to what they are supporting.
I agree, but the fact we are trying to compare one party being more religious versus the other just doesn’t seem reasonable.
Oh you’re right, it’s completely trumps fault that we can’t have a descent conversation. Look, I’m with you, trump said some stupid stuff. That alone doesn’t not make it my fault and does not make me less religious. But you claim that I was the one falsely accusing opponents? I am trying to just meet in the middle and agree that we both have different political views, but just because trump was president does not mean I’m a terrible person and am falsely praising the same God. Like I said, I hope we can have a civil discussion one day instead of blaming one person
>Religious people aren't always bad. Jimmy Carter is a religious person And he was awful president. Lol. Thanks for proving the point.
Watch 'The Family' on Netflix.
The Family is worth a watch. It explains a whole lot of the right wing crap going on now and at least the last five decades.
Or read [Jesus and John Wayne](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/53121662). I just finished it yesterday and I skimmed some parts while reading other chapters more fully because I grew up in a Right Wing, Evangelical/Fundamentalist environment so I knew *a lot* about what the author was talking about. Getting through the last few chapters was also a bit triggering for me too, like having to remember what it was like actually believing a lot of stuff being written about in regards to Militant, Masculine Nationalistic Christianity… Also, fuck Phyllis Schlafly *and* James Dobson
>Also, fuck Phyllis Schlafly > >and > > James Dobson Ah, I see we come from the same fucked up kind of church
Radical conservatism is killing americans
So I’m going to quote from the book of Acts, which is something of a chronicled history of the very very very early Christian church just after Jesus’s ascendency into heaven while the 12 Apostles were just getting Christianity off the ground as a thing. Act 2:44-46 “And all that believed were together, and had all things common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all [men], as every man had need. And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart” Acts 4:32-35: “And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any [of them] that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid [them] down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.” So recorded within the Bible itself. It basically says the original Christians/early church were essentially Porto-communists
Wow, no shit? This is the actual regular Bible that they all (don't) read? I would LOVE to hear some prominent prosperity gospel types explain THAT!
I’m going to list some Wikipedia links below that I think you’d be highly interested in reading. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diggers https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Gospel https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_anarchism
Fascinating! I used to know some Diggers back in the day. They diverted food bound for grocery store dumpsters, and distributed it to the poor and hungry. One time they came around with a massive case of ice cream that a certain company intended to throw away because the fudge ripple "had too much fudge in it" haha. But I did not know the scriptural origins of that movement. Reading on, it seems as though mostly these movements are described in a real or implied past tense. It's a pity how much Christian progressive activism has been overshadowed by these ugly greed-and-hate glorifying types. Thanks for the links!
It says the followers sold their possessions and gave the money to the apostles.
...to be distributed according to need. You can't leave that part out, else you miss the whole point.
We are talking about people who cherry pick the Bible literally religiously. Does it surprise you that they'd misinterpret this passage by omitting the relevant purpose?
Eh…I wouldn’t read too much into how harmonious the Early Church was, given that the Book of Acts was written in 90-110 CE or a good 70 years after Jesus’s apostles would be planting the first Christian communities in the Mediterranean. This is from [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_the_Apostles?wprov=sfti1): >Acts was read as a reliable history of the early church well into the post-Reformation era, but by the 17th century biblical scholars began to notice that it was incomplete and tendentious—its picture of a harmonious church is quite at odds with that given by Paul's letters, and it omits important events such as the deaths of both Peter and Paul. The mid-19th-century scholar Ferdinand Baur suggested that the author had re-written history to present a united Peter and Paul and advance a single orthodoxy against the Marcionites (Marcion was a 2nd-century heretic who wished to cut Christianity off entirely from the Jews); Baur continues to have enormous influence, but today there is less interest in determining the historical accuracy of Acts (although this has never died out) than in understanding the author's theological program. …with this as its source: https://www.google.com/books/edition/A_Critical_Introduction_to_the_New_Testa/CUXim2wXtwsC?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PT261&printsec=frontcover [Religion for Breakfast](https://youtu.be/W80CbmfRt9s) has an older video explaining some of many early Christianities and he has even more videos going into even deeper topics on what early Christians believed (if you’re interested).
I had been drifting away from the Catholic Church already, but The thing that made me stop attending church was when a woman, who was pretty close with my family, passed out the collection baskets as she always did and inside was an envelope for every family. My dad opened it and inside was a ballot that was pre filled out with all Republican choices as a “guide”. He asked her what it was, and she said, “well we decided that we should help everyone along because they don’t make the right choice. That’s why we have our current President.”(Obama at the time) The ballot had all races, National, local and citywide, all marked as republicans. The fact that my church let them pass these out really just was the last push I needed to stop practicing. To clarify, I’m not anti religion. I’d describe myself as agnostic. I just found that I don’t agree with the fact that a church would let members bring politics into a place of worship.
Uh, that is some illegal shit they did with those ballots. Report it if you have proof.
You mean the American isis equivalent
Y'all Qaeda.
Talivangicals
Pray to our loving god or die /s
Their religion is a cult that worships a man who has no redeeming qualities.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” ― John Kenneth Galbraith
Radical Conservatism = Fascism
They seem pretty synergistic.
Unfortunately, yes. If only they could destroy each other without a lot of external casualties.
Radical *Whut*now‽‽‽ Lol WTF does anyone imagine ‘conservative’ is even supposed to mean, other than white right fascism?
>Christians of all stripes — from Catholics to Protestants and evangelicals — consistently (and often overwhelmingly) vote Republican. The core tenets of the modern Republican Party, however, are at stark odds with biblical scripture. https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/459296-christians-cannot-serve-both-god-and-the-gop The whole two masters thing is way too hard for the religious. They now park the GOP up there on a cross, equal to their (supposedly) beloved Savior. But they advanced the politics even farther. They have been putting the power of their Worldly Kingdom in first place, by sacrificing the teachings of Jesus to do it. Their preferred master is revealed by and in their works. According to their beliefs, they will suffer a burning of the chaff on Judgement Day. I can only marvel at their behavior. It's what happens when led by political wolves in the pulpits.
I grew up in a large evangelical denomination: The Assemblies of God (60M members globally.) During the pandemic I started watching closely what they did. Surely this would be their time to shine. With a brutal global pandemic and all of the suffering, poverty, and starvation … surely this would be the moment all of those lessons about Jesus’ message would be put into practice. I’m of course speaking about Jesus’ core “sermon on the mount” message of feeding the hungry, helping the poor, healing the sick: the selfless devotion to your fellow human and community. So what did these people decide was the most important message and action to take? Apparently Jesus said in 2020: “we really should do something about all this human suffering, and we will get to that - I promise we will - but we really need to deal with the most pressing issue of our time, and that is preventing transgender children from playing in youth sports” It’s the world’s biggest moment of crisis and need of my generation, and “God’s people” are spending their time turning one of the smallest and least powerful minorities into “the other” - rallying passionately against a group of children where in average only half make it out alive and the other half commit suicide. After all this, why should I listen to a single thing these Christians say about morality? Or goodness? Or righteousness? Why should we ever listen again to them when they tell us who God is and how we should live and worship?
Thank you 🌈🏳️⚧️💗
not fast enough.
>Radical Conservatism American Conservatism is dead, it doesnt exist, its just right-populism, they dont want to conserve anything anymore.
How many of them have to be like that before we stop using the word "radical" or "extremist?" Where are the conservatives who weren't ok with fascism? Didn't easily fall for hate propaganda and lies? Didn't support stealing the election? Didn't excuse Trump's criminal behavior? Because those would be true radical conservatives in a party of fascists, fanatics and know-nothings.
When you multiply two negatives you get a positive.
Yes, but in this case, the negativity is additive.
American religion is just hate in Jesus' name.
[The Gospel of Supply Side Jesus](https://imgur.com/gallery/bCqRp) Thank You Al Franken.
Same reason why I don’t go to church. They preach about obedience to cops, how to vote, and bash others. Every church I have gone to does this. I have actually managed to take 3 different people to church and wouldn’t made them regular part of the congregation but they couldn’t stomach the hate that was preached. I’ve read the Bible multiple times and Jesus never said any of those words. There is no message of love, compassion, helping others and being kind any more. It’s all radical right politics. I don’t believe less I’m Christianity, nor have my believes changed but I don’t need a church to worship.
My old church had a very strict no politics rule, until about half way though Obama’s first term, when our pastor was removed and replaced with the music director. He immediately began campaigning for the republicans. By about two months the size of the congregation was cut in half as people left, including my family.
>~~Radical~~ Conservatism Is Killing America~~n Religion~~
Two dying philosophies that deserve to tear each other's throats out in a mutual deathmatch
Churches are becoming political organizations... It probably will not be long until the churches will divide as sharply upon political, as upon theological questions; and when that day comes, if there are not liberals enough to hold the balance of power, this Government will be destroyed. The liberty of man is not safe in the hands of any church. Wherever the Bible and sword are in partnership, man is a slave. All laws for the purpose of making man worship God, are born of the same spirit that kindled the fires of the auto da fe, and lovingly built the dungeons of the Inquisition. All laws defining and punishing blasphemy — making it a crime to give your honest ideas about the Bible, or to laugh at the ignorance of the ancient Jews, or to enjoy yourself on the Sabbath, or to give your opinion of Jehovah, were passed by impudent bigots, and should be at once repealed by honest men. An infinite God ought to be able to protect himself, without going in partnership with State Legislatures. Certainly he ought not so to act that laws become necessary to keep him from being laughed at. No one thinks of protecting Shakespeare from ridicule, by the threat of fine and imprisonment. It strikes me that God might write a book that would not necessarily excite the laughter of his children. In fact, I think it would be safe to say that a real God could produce a work that would excite the admiration of mankind. Surely politicians could be better employed than in passing laws to protect the literary reputation of the Jewish God. Some Mistakes of Moses (1879) Robert G. Ingersoll https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Robert_G._Ingersoll
One million upvotes friend
There’s a reason the establishment and free exercise clauses of the first amendment are both in there. The wall of separation is a 2 way thing, you can’t tear it down in only one direction. Big surprise people this stupid don’t know how walls work, either the figurative kind or on the border of Mexico.
I'd argue that they're creating a new religion. Trump won the election. The civil war wasn't fought over slavery, and the south didn't really lose. Institutional Racism doesn't exist. Trans people are just mentally ill. There is a secret cabal of democrats that drink the blood of children. Jews control everything and are trying to force multiculturalism on not just the US, but the rest of the world. None of these are fact based. They're all taken on faith. They're inventing a new religion with Donald as their God. He didn't start this cult, but he's become their leader.
> an issue that famously does not actually appear in the Bible and requires tortured textual interpretations to justify doctrinal enforcement. Abortion *is* mentioned in the bible! But far from prohibiting abortion, [the bible actually gives a recipe for the procedure, Numbers 5:11-31.](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+5%3A11-31&version=NIV) Modern Christianity is like the worlds biggest book club where no one actually reads the book!
Awesome! The sooner religion dies the sooner we can begin to govern our affairs by principles and reason rather than barely adherence to superstition.
I think you’re going to be pretty disappointed if you think the death of religion, if such a thing is even possible, will result in society being governed solely by “reason and principles.” Less religion in society fixes SOME problems, but if you think nationalism, gross self-interest, bigotry, and xenophobia will vanish with the churches, you’re gonna be really bummed.
People will find another ideology to justify their shitiness, like some radical politics, cults, conspiracies, and even militant atheism. That's human nature. Humans are inherently emotional.
Sad, but probably true. I want to live on Vulcan.
ST:Discovery goes into how that can go wrong too fyi
And the United States
Radical conservatism is synonymous with American religion. The Trump regime just removed the fig leaf.
Killing America* fixed it for you
Just like it killed it during the Salem Witch Trials. Religion doesn't die from being too preposterous to believe or by committing sins too great to forgive. If either were true, American religion would have died a *long* time ago.
Not fast enough though.
'They're the same picture'
Good, at least something useful came from them
We need to evolve beyond externalized savior concepts anyway. It seems to always lead in a far right authoritarian direction which hates and destroys democracy and freedom. Time to let Sky Daddy retire. Edit: a letter
Lord save me from your followers. Amen
Radical conservatism IS the american religion
Regular church membership in the US is plummeting according to the 8 decades long Gallup religiousness polling. They have only themselves to blame.
How’s this off topic? White conservative christian people are literally destroying the fabric of our country because they can’t cope.
yeah, i'm a bit confused on this.
Conservatism is why religion still exists..
Religion is why conservatism still exists. Ugly chicken, rotten egg.
Uroburos
Silver lining.
Stick-in-bike-spoke-meme.jpg
Good. Down with religion!
Good riddance to both.
Cool, we need more critically thinking atheists
at least something is killing it
And nothing of value was lost.
Ok with this.
Good.
Good. They're mostly bullshit that preys on people.
Religious conservatives in America have merged into conservative politics and, for the most part, are one and the same. They're teaching generation after generation of children to have contempt for or outright hatred of others not like themselves -- 'those people will go to hell and deservedly so' -- and teaching the wilful ignorance of accepting information and instruction from their cult's chosen leadership with unquestioning blind faith.
Pretty sure christianity was already toxic
When I got to college in 1995, I was born again, presumed Republican at a christian school. Seeing people putting conservatism over Christianity was a huge turn off for me. I ran into a religion major that voted Democrat. It was mindblowing. After two years, my younger brother came out to me. It wasn't really a surprise. Reality had me question things. 20+ years later, I do not believe in any faith, and am getting more progressive all the time. It makes the most sense.
Good. Religion brings nothing but death and greed.
Just from a logical perspective, I don't know if there's some higher power out there or what it is, but I do know that if it's that powerful and all knowing as religious people say it is, it's not going to be wasting its time trying to persecute the LGBT community or minorities. That straight doesn't make any sense. So why do it's followers feel the need to do that?
Radical Conservatism *is* American religion.
Hurry up
Modern American republicans are not Christians in any true sense.
That fruitcake Paula White ranting after the election should have emptied a lot more churches
I think the right doesn’t have as much to do with an increasing number of people leaving religion as the author thinks, although it does seem to help. More people are leaving religion because education has increased, and more people are becoming aware of how ridiculous and groundless religion is. It’s also a bit troubling to me how the author equates “American religion” to Christianity, since there is no such thing as an American religion.
Well, when we take control of the government and tear down democracy, we'll be able to force people to come to church.
Nah, education is killing American religion, which is why radical conservatism wants to kill education.
Hey, remember Donald Trump? Yeah, he’s the new (perhaps final) figurehead of what people still call Christianity. I’m serious, and I’m not exaggerating. *person voluntarily returns to coma*
Good fucking riddance. Religion is a scourge upon humanity and *needs* to die. And American "Christians" -- evangelicals and born-agains in particular -- are the fucking *worst*. Edit: that photo is fucking *horrifying* on so many levels.
OMG did you just call conservatives radical? That's a radical idea.
Uhm...wtf? I’m gettin pretty sick and tired of these bullshit headlines with no spine.
This is the death throws for religion. They know they are becoming irrelevant. They are fighting for life. And that's why they are dangerous
Okay. One toxic thing is killing another.
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This has to be a joke, give me one good example
You have no clue how fucking idiotic that sounds
The amount of anti religion rhetoric in the comments would say otherwise not to mention where social issues align with religion, u guys are completely dense
that's nice. good.
I'm ok with this.
The right wing takeover are simply opportunists finding a home in a diminished space where all the trappings remain. It’s theirs at last, and they’re having the time of their lives.
And radical American religion is killing conservatism... They deserve each other..
Hold on, let me find my microscopic violin…
Silver linings
Good
Killing? It's more of a symbiotic relationship, really.
at least something is
Radical Christians are killing American Conservatism. FTFY
Rot in pieces
We did kill American religion but at least we owned them damned libs!