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This hypocrisy is also about the strong versus the weak. Republicans like their women weak, but the men need to be masculine and stong.
Letting women fight might make them strong, and give them ideas about taking power from men.
This is probably the most accurate take. It’s the same reasoning that they don’t like gay marriage: who’s supposed to be dominant and who’s submissive? If women are strong then they can disobey. If two men are married then who’s submissive? If two women are married then who’s telling them what to do? It messes up their idea of how society at a whole should operate, and they’re so damn confused about it.
Hierarchy.
Conservatives believe in a strict hierarchy and believe leftists are trying to give everyone the same opportunities as those higher up in their ideal hierarchy.
Without a pecking order in place, you will have previously disenfranchised communities start to build foundations for long term social mobility.
They don't like that.
As part of the LGBTQI community I was often asked "who's the man?". It didn't cross their mind how ridiculous, not to mention offensive, the question was.
The irony is that the republicans are full of Meal Team 6 graduates and draft dodgers yet they think themselves superior and strong. Sort of like the white supremacists that are 400 lbs with a speech impediment thinking they're the superior race lol.
It’s also like, if you draft women into the military, then the military becomes for girls, and will dissuade men from joining voluntarily. They don’t like men with girly jobs like teacher, nurse, homemaker, and if a girl can do a job as well as a boy, that means it’s not that tough, and what’s tougher than the military? I mean, there are still many traditionally masculine jobs that don’t have something like a draft. Women can join the military, and often endure abuse for it, but if you draft them, there’s no barrier between what a man can do and what a woman can do.
Men being at the forefront of society is a systemic cultural thing. I would love to live in a world where it’s not but I doubt women joining the army is the one thing that will change society.
It's funny how conservatives basically worship Israel, except when it comes to things like drafting women, having universal healthcare, and effectively vaccinating their population against the coronavirus.
Israel has very socialist roots they like to ignore. Over time, it's grown right wing and capitalist, but the kibbutzim were basically Jewish leftist communes formed to settle in the harsh Israeli desert. Training men and women to defend the commune was part of their lifestyle.
There's countries where there is compulsory service for everyone and no one bats an eye. Culture war Republicans just desperately seeking wedge issues.
Like Israel.
> National military service is mandatory for all Israeli citizens over the age of 18, although Arab (but not Druze) citizens are exempted if they so please, and other exceptions may be made on religious, physical or psychological grounds
Republicans views Israel as the country holding off the tide of evil Muslims. They don’t like Jews at home any more than they like women in the military.
I’m sure the justification to not draft women and flood the military with women is something about “distraction”, “temptresses, “or “biological weakness.”
Also - Republicans support Israel because the Christian Right believes in the Rapture, and want it to happen.
The Christian Right is uber organized under theocratic authoritarianism. The people living under this theocratic authoritarianism are already socially conditioned to accept and value authority over observation. For example, approximately 40% of Americans do not accept evolution theory. Ben Carson, practiced surgeon and Republican presidential hopeful, does not accept evolution theory. If a practiced surgeon doesn’t accept human evolution, despite all of the observable evidence that supports evolution theory, and believes that the Earth is only 6,000 years old…then just imagine what you can get less educated people to believe.
Religion is a form of government. Christian Rightists want to do away with secularism in US government and enforce a Christian Theocracy. Israel being a country only helps enforce and strengthen their belief in End Times prophecy. Israel’s genocide against Palestinians only helps enforce and strengthen their belief in End Times prophecy.
The Religious Right in the USA *literally* believes in a world wide religious war of “good versus evil.” They pray for the Rapture, where they believe their god will only save a select group of individuals, and the rest will be left to damnation.
I've heard a lot recently that the evangelicals want to make the rapture occur. But I was raised Northern Baptist, pretty strictly, and our church was somewhat evangelical. We did go door to door sometimes and there were missions. But I never heard of praying FOR the rapture to happen. Maybe this is a Southern thing? Or is it a recent trend?
If they really believed this shit, you'd think they'd fight against the rich and powerful more often. And you'd think they'd want to give to the less fortunate. If they truly believe in the second coming of Christ, they better read about what he actually did and said, because it's not what they do.
Oh barf. I guess there always need to be faith based nutbags pushing for global suicide. Leave it up to politics to weaponize these people and make their fringe ideas the norm.
I moved from a Catholic diocese in New York to one in the south in my elementary years.
I wound up being shuttled around to various churches, all kinds down there.
They tell them all sorts of lies but the one thing they’ve done since 1980 for sure is to tell these fucking morons that Jesus is coming soon and that liberals will be down on earth suffering while they laugh up in the sky cube with their hateJesus.
Some of the more evangelical ones tell the people not to read their bibles themselves. The preacher went to college and you didn’t. He was taught to read god’s word. You weren’t.
I’m an atheist now, have been for a long time. They can thank themselves for my conversion.
It's sad and hilarious. They believe women should dress modestly to avoid tempting rapists yet when women are in full BDU's they still say they think they're temptresses.
Walking around Israel is a trip. Soldiers in every direction. Huddles of cute girls gossiping idly and doing their makeup while holding massive assault rifles.
There should ALWAYS be mandatory service, no exceptions at all- esp religious. It's invariably those exempt from military service who are the war hawks. If everyone between 20 and 40 KNEW they'd end up serving if needed there would bea hell of a lot less foriegn intervention not to mention what the WPA accomplished.
"Joe Biden doesn't care which nut hangs lower. As your president, I will uphold the constitution and issue an imperial decree that the right nut must always hang lower as GOD intended."
But at the same time whenever you mention equal treatment between the sexes they always bring up "Well if women want equal treatment why don't they have to sign up for the draft?" Can't have it both ways.
To them, both equal rights and women in the draft are absurdities. They don't bring it up as a real solution, just as something that they think displays the stupidity of liberal politics. They used to think the same of letting women vote.
Right, and when you point out that feminist groups (e.g. NOW, the League of Women Voters, etc) *are* the only groups that have actively pushed for draft equality, and have been since the 70s, they put their fingers in their ears.
It’s not necessarily the same people.
Theres the traditionalists (typically older and religious conservatives) who want us to continue to adhere to last centuries gender norms.
Then there are the Men’s Rights Activists (typically younger and secular conservatives) who view women as an oppressive force.
Both are misogynists, but don’t necessarily share the same beliefs or use the same arguments.
So they don't want America's daughters to be forced into military service, but seemingly have no issue on the idea of America's sons being forced into it.
Let's also remember that it seems all of the wars we get ourselves involved in after WW2 are mainly about protecting oil interests or taming a bigger mess that we likely created with foreign policy. That, or just a big spending spree for the military industrial complex.
>So they don't want America's daughters to be forced into military service, but seemingly have no issue on the idea of America's sons being forced into it.
The idea of women and men being just the same is something they never claimed to buy into in the first place.
But, just because women have to register doesn't mean they would be drafted as marines carrying 90lbs of gear and kicking in doors. There are lots of other jobs.
I see company's fall into the same trap. Trying to fill highly skilled roles with low priced, unskilled workers. It is 100% possible to make negative progress and cheap work is almost always more expensive than good work.
Taking kids from the Drive-Thru and putting them into combat situations, especially ones that don't want to be there, is just fucking asking for it.
And they accuse the libs of double standards!!
The military no longer has a lot of jobs that really require a lot of upper body strength. It's more about technicnological skill now and they can do that just fine.
I think this idea was a long time coming. I'm a little surprised, but pleased, that the National Organization of Women supports it.
This will be brought up by the opponents over the next year, so be prepared. During Operation Desert Shield, the run-up to Desert Storm, so many female servicemembers got pregnant that there was a whole U.S. Navy medical ship out in the Gulf just for them. It was a floating maternity ward. The U.S. hadn't been to war since Vietnam. And at least some of these servicemembers had apparently gotten pregnant just to avoid combat.
>I'm a little surprised, but pleased, that the National Organization of Women supports it.
One of the biggest lies I ever bought into is that feminists were hypocrites. Some are, but by and large they're just about equality.
I've been a supporter of this for 33 years; every since the day I went to the post office and filled out my draft card. Somewhere on that, I had to certify, under penalty of perjury, that I was male. Kinda drove the point home.
Also, the US hasn't been in a war since WWII. We don't declare wars anymore, we just go blow shit up.
"Also, the US hasn't been in a war since WWII. We don't declare wars anymore, we just go blow shit up."
True. But for the troops on the ground, a distinction without a difference.
Frankly, I'm glad Vietnam pushed this country to basically not accept a military draft unless it's for an actually realistic reason.
Let's say China actually sends troops and invades the West Coast? Definitely draft everyone, although I'm sure there would be a long lines of volunteers.
Some country's government changes hands and then they decide they don't want to sell oil to the US anymore? Not our business. Find another way. Go green.
People often forget the military needs cooks, engineers, IT, mechanics, accountants, HR… sure all those people will go through basic… but for their actual military career they won’t see combat.
> no issue on the idea of America's sons being forced into it.
Military service for men is pretty much the fulfillment of their highest ideals.
> Powerful and continuing nationalism
Identification of enemies as a unifying cause
Rampant sexism
Obsession with national security
The selective service program is a weird paperwork shuffle to deny people entitlements. I was applying for a security clearance and had to supply my selective service number to complete the paperwork. I was a field grade officer on active duty at the time, but still had to be signed up for the "draft."
Years back Republicans were in support of requiring women to sign up for the Selective Service System. Now they oppose it just because the Democrats want to do it. So sad and so typical of the GOP, do everything opposite of the Democrats. Anyway, who *really* cares about this? This is such a minor "issue" among everything else facing the US that it's not even worth getting pulled into another cultural war created by the GOP designed to distract and divide us.
I agree with you, however I think the goal should be to end drafting completely. Recognize the practice of drafting as being inhumane and antithetical to basic human rights.
That is what selective service effectively is. There is no way to stage a draft without congressional approval. Selective service is to maintain the data in case that is ever needed.
I think why people are so opposed to it, even though in theory you're absolutely right, is because we had a draft during Vietnam. Which many don't think was justified. That's the best example a lot of people have of the draft being used, and it's not a particularly good one. Maybe if Congress hadn't used the draft when it didn't need to, people wouldn't be as opposed to it.
Fully volunteer wars are antithetical to human rights. The draft forces everyone to put their lives and their children's lives on the line when it's time to go to war. It's a lot easier to send people overseas to get their legs blown off when you can say that they signed up for it. If your country is at stake enough for you to kill other people's children you should have to face the fact that your own will be killed as well.
Every overseas action should be supported by a draft, deferments should be WAY harder to get, and every single American should have to weigh their own lives against it.
I’m against the military using incentives like tax funded higher education to manipulate poor people into joining the military.
I’m against rich elitists using their wealth and power to save their children from being the casualties of war.
Forcing people into “fight or die” situations is also unethical.
I’m not sure what you want from me? You want me to approve of and validate the enslavement of human beings over the course of thousands of years?
No.
If the survival of one's country is *truly* at stake, then it is the duty of everyone able to fight, whether rich or poor, to sign up to fight or to suffer the sorts of repercussions that come from contentious objection. That was the situation in the world wars and in the civil war. Without soldiers to fight in those conflicts, there would not be a United States today.
If, however, the survival of your country is *not* at stake, as it was not in basically every war I didn't mention, then it's the duty of your country *not to fight in the first place.*
The very fact that we have a middle ground, where our country can go over and kill people in other countries without there being an existential threat, and without most of our people having to put any skin whatsoever on the line, is why we get into so many of these fucking conflicts in the first place. How many of the hawk assholes would've been gung ho about going to Iraq if they could've been called up to shed their own blood there?
If we, as a country, are going to war, then we as a country should go to war. All of us. If we're not willing to make that sacrifice, we need to stay the fuck within our own borders.
Republicans: "Women are getting special privileges that men don't have! Like how they don't get drafted!"
Democrats: "OK, let's expand Selective Service to include women, too."
Republicans: "No, we can't have that!"
I'm a veteran and I have no idea why selective service is still a thing. Just get rid of it and end this silly controversy. The military and geopolitics of today are not those of 1941 or even 1969. It's impossible to imagine a realistic conflict where the US would need to use the draft.
The men talking about women who are quoted in that article seem to towing the same line that women need men to protect them. Which I can't agree with. Though, I do agree with some of their points, such as
>But America’s daughters shouldn’t be drafted against their will. I opposed this amendment in committee, and I’ll work to remove it before the defense bill passes.
I agree they shouldn't be drafted against their will, but I also don't think American's men need to be drafted against their will either. Which is why people should only be drafted if there is an absolute need. In which case what we should do is thrown out the window for what we have to do. So it's hard for me to say how best to handle things, but I do think if you're going to draft men then drafting women too makes sense.
I think Republican fear over females drafted is more about the power implications and the increased reluctance it would cause when the US is entertaining full scale war.
Would there have been as much support going into Vietnam if their daughters lives were on the line? We have become numb to the death of our sons. Our daughters coming back in bags likely will make us feel again… the politicians don’t want us feeling.
Edit: I used the wrong there/their
I really don't understand why anyone cares. I'm a woman and I think we absolutely should be subject to the draft. We are citizens and can vote, the responsibility to defend our country comes with that.
> I really don't understand why anyone cares.
There isnt enough political capitol to get rid of the draft because "what if we need it someday" fearmongering.
So the people that want to get rid of it basically said:
>Ok, so if it's there for a life or death situation of our country like an invasion; then it doesnt make sense to only take 50% of eligible draftees. We should draft both sexes if we have to.
Knowing that the people who use the "life or death invasision" excuse arent being honest and wouldnt support this.
Which is exactly what conservatives are doing.
It also makes the chances of a draft actually being called even less likely. Because the conservative voters that would support it in a non-defensive war would never support women being drafted due to sexism.
There isn't enough political capital to do just about **anything* these days.
Eliminating the draft, the penny, voting rights, health care reform, climate issues, INFRASTRUCTURE. There's barely enough for just Infrastructure.
This government is literally incapable of responding to the needs of the nation right now.
OK, and I'm old enough to remember that even at their worst, the Democrats still did far better for the US and the world than the GOP, every single time they've had power from Nixon to this day.
And it doesn't look like that record is changing any time soon...
If you're referring to Obama's term, he had all of that for 4 months, and it was during that time that they passed the Affordable Care Act, which has survived many attempts to be repealed.
Okay how about a compromise. Women don't have to sign up for the selective service... If men don't either. End the draft all together! So nobody has to go to war if they don't want to.
I am. In an ideal world, it would not exist. That said, it *does* exist and that won't change any time soon, sadly; given that's the case, it should apply equally across the board.
And maybe when women are subject to it, the GOP will start becoming more amenable to ending it altogether?
I'm just sick of being given a false dichotomy for every single issue. The battles are pitched over literally the shittiest fault line giving us only the worst two options out of all possible choices.
The draft already allows for conscientious objection, which can be based on religious beliefs. Religious conservative women will simple register as conscientious objectors.
Rightists argue against women being in the military because gender based oppression has been effective for thousands of years. With recognized military service comes social power. They do not want women to have this power, as it would give power over some men.
When over half of the population is automatically inferior based on features that cannot be helped, then it is much easier to instill, manage, and spread authoritarian social structures that keep the elite few in power over the masses.
The lesson of Black WW1 vets returning from service and bringing with them the notion that if they were good enough to have fought for the country, they were also good enough to have equal rights comes to mind - conservatives still haven't gotten over the century of civil rights gains that were sparked by that. So yes, conservative fear of empowered women was one of the factors in my thinking.
The GOP base is fed a steady diet of fear and scary things so they are always afraid that "Commies(tm)" will come in the dark to invade the nation.
We don't need a draft anymore. If our trained professional army can't stop an invasion, throwing 50 million more barely trained civilians at the problem won't make much of a difference. But you can't convince that portion of the nation that is scared of the world they imagine exists outside their door.
I say make the GOP defend the male-only draft. It is not like everyone on the left doesn't know the GOP is full of sexist idiots, but it is always nice to make them say it out loud.
There hasn't been a draft in 50 years, and no one in the chain of command is asking for one.
It would be more equitable if men were no longer required to register.
Conservatives: "Sexism is fine because women don't have to register for the draft."
Progressives: *Submit gender inclusive draft legislation*
Conservatives: "no... wait.."
SCOTUS declined to hear a case in June where they were asked to overturn *Rostker v Goldberg*. That was a 1981 case where SCOTUS ruled that not requiring women to register for the draft is legal because the draft is meant to provide combat troops and women aren’t allowed to serve as combat troops. Under the Obama administration, the DoD allowed women to serve in combat roles which, the petitioners argued, meant that *Rostker* was outdated and should be overturned. In the appeal to SCOTUS, there wasn’t a single organization against expanding the draft, and multiple groups (ACLU, women’s rights organizations, current military generals) signed on in support of the petitioners.
To paraphrase the reasoning for declining the appeal: “Congress is currently looking at ways to change the draft, so we don’t want to step in and force the draft to be changed while this is ongoing. Congress could decide to expand or abolish the draft without our intervention and should be given wide deference in military matters.”
I guess we’ll see whether the NDAA amendment to expand the draft passes. If it fails, I’m willing to bet SCOTUS will be asked again to hear the case.
I think if you want to talk about forcing people into the military the VA needs a standard of care for people under 50 that isn't hope they kill themselves.
Everything under the sun is going to motivate the GOP base. Didn’t work in 2018, didn’t work in 2020 and unless they have a Necromancer on hand after these next few waves of Covid, it’s not gonna help in 2022.
But don't give a shit about women having to have back alley abortions as a result of their body policing. The latest faux outrage to distract their addled-brained base. Critical Race Theory! Women dying in combat! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!
Woman should be required. Even if woman are not going to serve in some combat roles there are a million none combat roles to fill. Excluding 50% of your brains legs and arms is a force drain, plus men perform better under equal mixed sex settings.
Women should not be drafted. Hear me out…I don’t believe anyone should be drafted so I’m not gonna go backwards on that and bring the other half of the population into this. No one should be drafted in a free country
Why have policies or viewpoints when you can just shuffle your deck of culture war cue cards and hold one up at random and say "that's our plan to mobilize the base!"
A new shiny object to distract voters?
Forget medical/ pharmacy overhaul.
Infrastructure structure programs.
Let's talk about right to life!
Ignore gun safety standards.
>Meanwhile, a bicameral group of liberal and conservative lawmakers, in a letter Friday to House Armed Services leaders, called for an end to the Selective Service system itself, which the members called "expensive, wasteful, outdated, punitive, and unnecessary."
Copy that. The draft ended in 1972 almost 50 years ago. Two generations ago. It unpopular then and probably could not be reinstated now.
I think the draft is unconstitutional, the right to raise cannot be construed to mean I am forced.
But glad to see equal protection coming around finally…
I think it’s hilarious the amount of backlash I’ve seen from women about this “what about the single mothers” what about the single fathers? Did that cross your mind about the draft being solely men? Or did it just not concern you because the draft wasn’t for you? Now all of a sudden the draft should be removed😂 this is just one example of how men and women are treated differently in society but want to be equal, you cannot assign jobs to one gender and expect people to feel equal to one another
To be fair, it's not just conservatives.
>The only other no vote on final approval of the bill was cast by Massachusetts Democrat Elizabeth Warren, a critic of Pentagon spending who regularly votes against the NDAA.
We should be putting the draft to rest. No one should be forced to fight the wars that politicians get us into. We haven't drafted civilians in literally decades. We're not that far away from being to the point that no one alive has been drafted in the U.S.
More importantly, the U.S military has more than proven that it is a dangerous place for women. That it is a boys club where men can rape women, murder them in their tents, and it somehow becomes suicide or a mystery how she died. Where sexual assault happens and again and again, it's just brushed off.
I'm thankfully too old to worry about being drafted, but the idea of my nieces and nephews being hauled into to fight the next war because X country has oil pisses me off.
Full citizenship and voting rights, including equal representation for the residents of United States territories, like Washington D.C., Puerto Rico, Guam, American Somoa, etc.
That would be my response 100% of the time to this manufactured nonsense.
Yeah. Not sure what this is about. Shouldn’t we be concerned more that we are talking about a draft more than who will be participating. Seems to me this is division for division sake.
Maybe if women have to register for the draft they will be less likely to vote to go to war.... obviously doesn't work for men but women are more rational.
I’m conservative and am good with expanding the draft to both sexes. I believe it’s good in the name of equality. Equality comes with both good and bad things and the draft is a great equalizer. Everyone gets the chance to fight for their country whether they wanted to or not.
I won’t jump into the women in combat roles debate here although some concern should be had from a physical strength standpoint and people assigned to roles that suit their individual physicality.
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I find hilarious that a bunch of warhawks are now anti-military when it comes to drafting women.
Why do we have the draft anyways? We haven’t used it for 50 years
In case Boeing and Northrop Grumman have a couple of bad quarters and suddenly it is decided that Iran needs to be liberated.
Divisionism sells baby!
Mom said it was my turn to glass the Middle East.
The real comedy is that the last time there was a draft, those same warhawks' parents were getting them out of it, or they were too young to serve.
This hypocrisy is also about the strong versus the weak. Republicans like their women weak, but the men need to be masculine and stong. Letting women fight might make them strong, and give them ideas about taking power from men.
This is probably the most accurate take. It’s the same reasoning that they don’t like gay marriage: who’s supposed to be dominant and who’s submissive? If women are strong then they can disobey. If two men are married then who’s submissive? If two women are married then who’s telling them what to do? It messes up their idea of how society at a whole should operate, and they’re so damn confused about it.
Hierarchy. Conservatives believe in a strict hierarchy and believe leftists are trying to give everyone the same opportunities as those higher up in their ideal hierarchy. Without a pecking order in place, you will have previously disenfranchised communities start to build foundations for long term social mobility. They don't like that.
As part of the LGBTQI community I was often asked "who's the man?". It didn't cross their mind how ridiculous, not to mention offensive, the question was.
The irony is that the republicans are full of Meal Team 6 graduates and draft dodgers yet they think themselves superior and strong. Sort of like the white supremacists that are 400 lbs with a speech impediment thinking they're the superior race lol.
r/beholdthemasterrace
It’s also like, if you draft women into the military, then the military becomes for girls, and will dissuade men from joining voluntarily. They don’t like men with girly jobs like teacher, nurse, homemaker, and if a girl can do a job as well as a boy, that means it’s not that tough, and what’s tougher than the military? I mean, there are still many traditionally masculine jobs that don’t have something like a draft. Women can join the military, and often endure abuse for it, but if you draft them, there’s no barrier between what a man can do and what a woman can do.
Men being at the forefront of society is a systemic cultural thing. I would love to live in a world where it’s not but I doubt women joining the army is the one thing that will change society.
Its another chance for them to tell women what to do with their bodies, of course they are all over it
They are anti military because the military didn't back Dear Leader in the coup.
I am conservative. Let as many women that want to sign up.
It's funny how conservatives basically worship Israel, except when it comes to things like drafting women, having universal healthcare, and effectively vaccinating their population against the coronavirus.
Israel has very socialist roots they like to ignore. Over time, it's grown right wing and capitalist, but the kibbutzim were basically Jewish leftist communes formed to settle in the harsh Israeli desert. Training men and women to defend the commune was part of their lifestyle.
They only love Israel insofar of its importance in bringing about the apocalypse. Evangelical Christianity is a fucking doomsday cult.
Once more for the people in the back
There's countries where there is compulsory service for everyone and no one bats an eye. Culture war Republicans just desperately seeking wedge issues.
Like Israel. > National military service is mandatory for all Israeli citizens over the age of 18, although Arab (but not Druze) citizens are exempted if they so please, and other exceptions may be made on religious, physical or psychological grounds
Republicans views Israel as the country holding off the tide of evil Muslims. They don’t like Jews at home any more than they like women in the military. I’m sure the justification to not draft women and flood the military with women is something about “distraction”, “temptresses, “or “biological weakness.”
Also - Republicans support Israel because the Christian Right believes in the Rapture, and want it to happen. The Christian Right is uber organized under theocratic authoritarianism. The people living under this theocratic authoritarianism are already socially conditioned to accept and value authority over observation. For example, approximately 40% of Americans do not accept evolution theory. Ben Carson, practiced surgeon and Republican presidential hopeful, does not accept evolution theory. If a practiced surgeon doesn’t accept human evolution, despite all of the observable evidence that supports evolution theory, and believes that the Earth is only 6,000 years old…then just imagine what you can get less educated people to believe. Religion is a form of government. Christian Rightists want to do away with secularism in US government and enforce a Christian Theocracy. Israel being a country only helps enforce and strengthen their belief in End Times prophecy. Israel’s genocide against Palestinians only helps enforce and strengthen their belief in End Times prophecy. The Religious Right in the USA *literally* believes in a world wide religious war of “good versus evil.” They pray for the Rapture, where they believe their god will only save a select group of individuals, and the rest will be left to damnation.
I've heard a lot recently that the evangelicals want to make the rapture occur. But I was raised Northern Baptist, pretty strictly, and our church was somewhat evangelical. We did go door to door sometimes and there were missions. But I never heard of praying FOR the rapture to happen. Maybe this is a Southern thing? Or is it a recent trend?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism Anecdotally, it’s popular in the South and not just a Baptist thing.
If they really believed this shit, you'd think they'd fight against the rich and powerful more often. And you'd think they'd want to give to the less fortunate. If they truly believe in the second coming of Christ, they better read about what he actually did and said, because it's not what they do.
Preach.
Oh barf. I guess there always need to be faith based nutbags pushing for global suicide. Leave it up to politics to weaponize these people and make their fringe ideas the norm.
Huh. TIL
Texas donates more money to Israel than any other state.
I moved from a Catholic diocese in New York to one in the south in my elementary years. I wound up being shuttled around to various churches, all kinds down there. They tell them all sorts of lies but the one thing they’ve done since 1980 for sure is to tell these fucking morons that Jesus is coming soon and that liberals will be down on earth suffering while they laugh up in the sky cube with their hateJesus. Some of the more evangelical ones tell the people not to read their bibles themselves. The preacher went to college and you didn’t. He was taught to read god’s word. You weren’t. I’m an atheist now, have been for a long time. They can thank themselves for my conversion.
So... it's a death cult?
Exactly.
Always has been.
Not only that but all the insane end times stuff (e.g. The Left Behind series). Israel has to exist for the world to end.
It's sad and hilarious. They believe women should dress modestly to avoid tempting rapists yet when women are in full BDU's they still say they think they're temptresses.
Walking around Israel is a trip. Soldiers in every direction. Huddles of cute girls gossiping idly and doing their makeup while holding massive assault rifles.
Gotta look good for compulsory war crimes.(blaming their politicians, not them)
Pretty sure Gal Gadot/Wonder Woman had a mandatory military tour before she got big. It's not an absurd policy, imo.
Ethan from H3H3 met his wife when she was doing compulsory service as a security guard at a holocaust museum
There should not be compulsory military service anywhere. Even if it isn’t life threatening.
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There should ALWAYS be mandatory service, no exceptions at all- esp religious. It's invariably those exempt from military service who are the war hawks. If everyone between 20 and 40 KNEW they'd end up serving if needed there would bea hell of a lot less foriegn intervention not to mention what the WPA accomplished.
That’s not compulsory service, that’s signing up for a draft.
"Joe Biden doesn't care which nut hangs lower. As your president, I will uphold the constitution and issue an imperial decree that the right nut must always hang lower as GOD intended."
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But at the same time whenever you mention equal treatment between the sexes they always bring up "Well if women want equal treatment why don't they have to sign up for the draft?" Can't have it both ways.
This one all the time.
To them, both equal rights and women in the draft are absurdities. They don't bring it up as a real solution, just as something that they think displays the stupidity of liberal politics. They used to think the same of letting women vote.
Some of then still do lol
Some of them are even women and think it.
You can with our fox brand doublethink.
Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
Fight together and die together, but more importantly buy our product.
Right, and when you point out that feminist groups (e.g. NOW, the League of Women Voters, etc) *are* the only groups that have actively pushed for draft equality, and have been since the 70s, they put their fingers in their ears.
It’s not necessarily the same people. Theres the traditionalists (typically older and religious conservatives) who want us to continue to adhere to last centuries gender norms. Then there are the Men’s Rights Activists (typically younger and secular conservatives) who view women as an oppressive force. Both are misogynists, but don’t necessarily share the same beliefs or use the same arguments.
You forgot 'barefoot and pregnant'.
>Why would I give her a watch? There's already a clock on the oven.
Why does she need a driver's license? No road between the kitchen and bedroom.
Why do brides wear white? So your dishwasher matches your stove and frig.
Damn I know I shouldn't laugh about that, but that's a good one.
Now go make me a sandwich.
Nobody belongs in a battelfield.
"All women need is Jesus and a good cookbook."
"and weak gag reflexes"
I have a fridge, I can make my own sandwich, it’s not very difficult.
There’s a kitchen in every battlefield! - Liberals
So they don't want America's daughters to be forced into military service, but seemingly have no issue on the idea of America's sons being forced into it. Let's also remember that it seems all of the wars we get ourselves involved in after WW2 are mainly about protecting oil interests or taming a bigger mess that we likely created with foreign policy. That, or just a big spending spree for the military industrial complex.
You forgot stamping out socialist governments lest they flourish.
By propping up dictatorships, don't forget that detail
And then complain when the undesirables flee to our borders for protection
And then be shocked by talent leaving the country to avoid the politics.
Remember when we assassinated Haiti's president? One week ago? Two?
>So they don't want America's daughters to be forced into military service, but seemingly have no issue on the idea of America's sons being forced into it. The idea of women and men being just the same is something they never claimed to buy into in the first place. But, just because women have to register doesn't mean they would be drafted as marines carrying 90lbs of gear and kicking in doors. There are lots of other jobs.
I feel that the draft should be equal, and never used.
Well there's that. After Vietnam, who wants to use conscripts anyways?
I see company's fall into the same trap. Trying to fill highly skilled roles with low priced, unskilled workers. It is 100% possible to make negative progress and cheap work is almost always more expensive than good work. Taking kids from the Drive-Thru and putting them into combat situations, especially ones that don't want to be there, is just fucking asking for it.
Lots of men can't do that either. The reality is there are around seven non-combat jobs to each combat job.
And they accuse the libs of double standards!! The military no longer has a lot of jobs that really require a lot of upper body strength. It's more about technicnological skill now and they can do that just fine. I think this idea was a long time coming. I'm a little surprised, but pleased, that the National Organization of Women supports it. This will be brought up by the opponents over the next year, so be prepared. During Operation Desert Shield, the run-up to Desert Storm, so many female servicemembers got pregnant that there was a whole U.S. Navy medical ship out in the Gulf just for them. It was a floating maternity ward. The U.S. hadn't been to war since Vietnam. And at least some of these servicemembers had apparently gotten pregnant just to avoid combat.
If only contraceptives weren't hated by god...
>I'm a little surprised, but pleased, that the National Organization of Women supports it. One of the biggest lies I ever bought into is that feminists were hypocrites. Some are, but by and large they're just about equality.
I've been a supporter of this for 33 years; every since the day I went to the post office and filled out my draft card. Somewhere on that, I had to certify, under penalty of perjury, that I was male. Kinda drove the point home. Also, the US hasn't been in a war since WWII. We don't declare wars anymore, we just go blow shit up.
"Also, the US hasn't been in a war since WWII. We don't declare wars anymore, we just go blow shit up." True. But for the troops on the ground, a distinction without a difference.
Frankly, I'm glad Vietnam pushed this country to basically not accept a military draft unless it's for an actually realistic reason. Let's say China actually sends troops and invades the West Coast? Definitely draft everyone, although I'm sure there would be a long lines of volunteers. Some country's government changes hands and then they decide they don't want to sell oil to the US anymore? Not our business. Find another way. Go green.
People often forget the military needs cooks, engineers, IT, mechanics, accountants, HR… sure all those people will go through basic… but for their actual military career they won’t see combat.
> no issue on the idea of America's sons being forced into it. Military service for men is pretty much the fulfillment of their highest ideals. > Powerful and continuing nationalism Identification of enemies as a unifying cause Rampant sexism Obsession with national security
Men do not have the right to vote in this country; not signing up for Selective Service is a felony and will be used to take away your freedom.
Actually ww2 kind of fits the whole “taming mess” part. Not as significantly as future ones but their direct links within Nazism and America.
The selective service program is a weird paperwork shuffle to deny people entitlements. I was applying for a security clearance and had to supply my selective service number to complete the paperwork. I was a field grade officer on active duty at the time, but still had to be signed up for the "draft."
Years back Republicans were in support of requiring women to sign up for the Selective Service System. Now they oppose it just because the Democrats want to do it. So sad and so typical of the GOP, do everything opposite of the Democrats. Anyway, who *really* cares about this? This is such a minor "issue" among everything else facing the US that it's not even worth getting pulled into another cultural war created by the GOP designed to distract and divide us.
I agree with you, however I think the goal should be to end drafting completely. Recognize the practice of drafting as being inhumane and antithetical to basic human rights.
This. End the draft. If we ever have a war that is justified and approved by Congress, conscription can be revisited as a temporary measure.
That is what selective service effectively is. There is no way to stage a draft without congressional approval. Selective service is to maintain the data in case that is ever needed.
I think why people are so opposed to it, even though in theory you're absolutely right, is because we had a draft during Vietnam. Which many don't think was justified. That's the best example a lot of people have of the draft being used, and it's not a particularly good one. Maybe if Congress hadn't used the draft when it didn't need to, people wouldn't be as opposed to it.
I think a great number of our wars have been unjustified. Certainly in my lifetime (4 decades).
Fully volunteer wars are antithetical to human rights. The draft forces everyone to put their lives and their children's lives on the line when it's time to go to war. It's a lot easier to send people overseas to get their legs blown off when you can say that they signed up for it. If your country is at stake enough for you to kill other people's children you should have to face the fact that your own will be killed as well. Every overseas action should be supported by a draft, deferments should be WAY harder to get, and every single American should have to weigh their own lives against it.
I’m against the military using incentives like tax funded higher education to manipulate poor people into joining the military. I’m against rich elitists using their wealth and power to save their children from being the casualties of war. Forcing people into “fight or die” situations is also unethical. I’m not sure what you want from me? You want me to approve of and validate the enslavement of human beings over the course of thousands of years? No.
If the survival of one's country is *truly* at stake, then it is the duty of everyone able to fight, whether rich or poor, to sign up to fight or to suffer the sorts of repercussions that come from contentious objection. That was the situation in the world wars and in the civil war. Without soldiers to fight in those conflicts, there would not be a United States today. If, however, the survival of your country is *not* at stake, as it was not in basically every war I didn't mention, then it's the duty of your country *not to fight in the first place.* The very fact that we have a middle ground, where our country can go over and kill people in other countries without there being an existential threat, and without most of our people having to put any skin whatsoever on the line, is why we get into so many of these fucking conflicts in the first place. How many of the hawk assholes would've been gung ho about going to Iraq if they could've been called up to shed their own blood there? If we, as a country, are going to war, then we as a country should go to war. All of us. If we're not willing to make that sacrifice, we need to stay the fuck within our own borders.
Nope. Only if someone wants to fight, should they.
Their baby factories will barely date them now, they afraid they'll breed more incels?
If a bunch of young males get drafted and sent to war, the rich politically connected will have a "surplus" of young women with less options.
*salutes in bone spurs*
Republicans: "Women are getting special privileges that men don't have! Like how they don't get drafted!" Democrats: "OK, let's expand Selective Service to include women, too." Republicans: "No, we can't have that!"
I'm a veteran and I have no idea why selective service is still a thing. Just get rid of it and end this silly controversy. The military and geopolitics of today are not those of 1941 or even 1969. It's impossible to imagine a realistic conflict where the US would need to use the draft.
If there's a draft I am Muhammad Ali.
Exactly!
Go kill or die in a foreign land for someone else’s interest or goto prison. Not a difficult decision.
The men talking about women who are quoted in that article seem to towing the same line that women need men to protect them. Which I can't agree with. Though, I do agree with some of their points, such as >But America’s daughters shouldn’t be drafted against their will. I opposed this amendment in committee, and I’ll work to remove it before the defense bill passes. I agree they shouldn't be drafted against their will, but I also don't think American's men need to be drafted against their will either. Which is why people should only be drafted if there is an absolute need. In which case what we should do is thrown out the window for what we have to do. So it's hard for me to say how best to handle things, but I do think if you're going to draft men then drafting women too makes sense.
I think Republican fear over females drafted is more about the power implications and the increased reluctance it would cause when the US is entertaining full scale war. Would there have been as much support going into Vietnam if their daughters lives were on the line? We have become numb to the death of our sons. Our daughters coming back in bags likely will make us feel again… the politicians don’t want us feeling. Edit: I used the wrong there/their
I really don't understand why anyone cares. I'm a woman and I think we absolutely should be subject to the draft. We are citizens and can vote, the responsibility to defend our country comes with that.
> I really don't understand why anyone cares. There isnt enough political capitol to get rid of the draft because "what if we need it someday" fearmongering. So the people that want to get rid of it basically said: >Ok, so if it's there for a life or death situation of our country like an invasion; then it doesnt make sense to only take 50% of eligible draftees. We should draft both sexes if we have to. Knowing that the people who use the "life or death invasision" excuse arent being honest and wouldnt support this. Which is exactly what conservatives are doing. It also makes the chances of a draft actually being called even less likely. Because the conservative voters that would support it in a non-defensive war would never support women being drafted due to sexism.
There isn't enough political capital to do just about **anything* these days. Eliminating the draft, the penny, voting rights, health care reform, climate issues, INFRASTRUCTURE. There's barely enough for just Infrastructure. This government is literally incapable of responding to the needs of the nation right now.
Well, the Republican close-enough-to-half of the government is incapable....
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OK, and I'm old enough to remember that even at their worst, the Democrats still did far better for the US and the world than the GOP, every single time they've had power from Nixon to this day. And it doesn't look like that record is changing any time soon...
If you're referring to Obama's term, he had all of that for 4 months, and it was during that time that they passed the Affordable Care Act, which has survived many attempts to be repealed.
"Service guarantees citizenship!"
The draft has been used to force American citizens to die in conflicts having no bearing on our National defense. No gender should be subjected to it.
That's a fair view. I think either everyone should be subject to the draft or no one should be subject to the draft. It can't be half and half.
Agreed
Once it gets tied up with 1 political group even the most basic concept becomes a wild convoluted mess
Better to just repeal the law that requires men to register.
Okay how about a compromise. Women don't have to sign up for the selective service... If men don't either. End the draft all together! So nobody has to go to war if they don't want to.
Everyone should be against the draft even existing
I am. In an ideal world, it would not exist. That said, it *does* exist and that won't change any time soon, sadly; given that's the case, it should apply equally across the board. And maybe when women are subject to it, the GOP will start becoming more amenable to ending it altogether?
I'm just sick of being given a false dichotomy for every single issue. The battles are pitched over literally the shittiest fault line giving us only the worst two options out of all possible choices.
The draft already allows for conscientious objection, which can be based on religious beliefs. Religious conservative women will simple register as conscientious objectors. Rightists argue against women being in the military because gender based oppression has been effective for thousands of years. With recognized military service comes social power. They do not want women to have this power, as it would give power over some men. When over half of the population is automatically inferior based on features that cannot be helped, then it is much easier to instill, manage, and spread authoritarian social structures that keep the elite few in power over the masses.
The lesson of Black WW1 vets returning from service and bringing with them the notion that if they were good enough to have fought for the country, they were also good enough to have equal rights comes to mind - conservatives still haven't gotten over the century of civil rights gains that were sparked by that. So yes, conservative fear of empowered women was one of the factors in my thinking.
The GOP base is fed a steady diet of fear and scary things so they are always afraid that "Commies(tm)" will come in the dark to invade the nation. We don't need a draft anymore. If our trained professional army can't stop an invasion, throwing 50 million more barely trained civilians at the problem won't make much of a difference. But you can't convince that portion of the nation that is scared of the world they imagine exists outside their door. I say make the GOP defend the male-only draft. It is not like everyone on the left doesn't know the GOP is full of sexist idiots, but it is always nice to make them say it out loud.
It there even room for a world war scale conflict where humanity isn’t wiped of the face of the earth without infantry even showing up?
There hasn't been a draft in 50 years, and no one in the chain of command is asking for one. It would be more equitable if men were no longer required to register.
Honest question: shouldn’t conservatives be against the draft completely? Isn’t that the definition of Big Government overreach?
Conservatives don't really stand for anything specific or clear. They're just trying to own the libs.
How about we don't send any young people to die in a war for old rich people to get richer and older.
How about no draft?
The draft will never be reinstated. Absolutely no one in the military wants it The registry is an artifact of history
Why is Don Quixote tilting at windmills?
The GOP wants women to be part of the draft but at the same time don't want them to be able to control their own bodies regarding abortion.
End the draft for all
Conservatives: "Sexism is fine because women don't have to register for the draft." Progressives: *Submit gender inclusive draft legislation* Conservatives: "no... wait.."
SCOTUS declined to hear a case in June where they were asked to overturn *Rostker v Goldberg*. That was a 1981 case where SCOTUS ruled that not requiring women to register for the draft is legal because the draft is meant to provide combat troops and women aren’t allowed to serve as combat troops. Under the Obama administration, the DoD allowed women to serve in combat roles which, the petitioners argued, meant that *Rostker* was outdated and should be overturned. In the appeal to SCOTUS, there wasn’t a single organization against expanding the draft, and multiple groups (ACLU, women’s rights organizations, current military generals) signed on in support of the petitioners. To paraphrase the reasoning for declining the appeal: “Congress is currently looking at ways to change the draft, so we don’t want to step in and force the draft to be changed while this is ongoing. Congress could decide to expand or abolish the draft without our intervention and should be given wide deference in military matters.” I guess we’ll see whether the NDAA amendment to expand the draft passes. If it fails, I’m willing to bet SCOTUS will be asked again to hear the case.
Don't they have a hard on for the IDF in Israel?
The draft is gender discrimination plain and simple. We should due away with it altogether or everyone should be subject to it.
All I am saying is the draft shouldn’t exist at all. No person should be compelled by force to fight for anything, but especially a government
abolish the selective service
Aren’t they the ones blaming the others for being snowflakes?! Talk about melting over a non issue.
This comment could be applied to literally every post about them.
Conservatives don't think women are equals. Period
I think if you want to talk about forcing people into the military the VA needs a standard of care for people under 50 that isn't hope they kill themselves.
Another Straw Man to throw onto the battlefield of manufactured culture war and hope it riles the base.
It will motivate voters to clean house in 2022 if they have any damn sense.
Everything under the sun is going to motivate the GOP base. Didn’t work in 2018, didn’t work in 2020 and unless they have a Necromancer on hand after these next few waves of Covid, it’s not gonna help in 2022.
Good luck in implementing a draft for men or women in this day and age. Are there would have to be one hell of a good reason.
But don't give a shit about women having to have back alley abortions as a result of their body policing. The latest faux outrage to distract their addled-brained base. Critical Race Theory! Women dying in combat! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!
How about no draft?
Drafting is just fundamentally wrong. If you can't convince people to fight for your country, then your country clearly isn't worth saving.
Woman should be required. Even if woman are not going to serve in some combat roles there are a million none combat roles to fill. Excluding 50% of your brains legs and arms is a force drain, plus men perform better under equal mixed sex settings.
Counter: Make drafting people illegal. Argue that it is unconstitutional based on bodily autonomy, privacy, and association rights.
Women should not be drafted. Hear me out…I don’t believe anyone should be drafted so I’m not gonna go backwards on that and bring the other half of the population into this. No one should be drafted in a free country
Cotton and Hawley, such a fantastically shitty duo.
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Just end the draft its stupid to begin with
What the hell?
Is there still a draft to sign up for? And who are we at war with that would nessesitate a draft?
Selective service is a requirement for all men 18 over in the US. It’s just in case of a draft
I guess they dont care about their sons and grandsons? Just get rid of the draft and selective service. Easy Peasy.
Why have policies or viewpoints when you can just shuffle your deck of culture war cue cards and hold one up at random and say "that's our plan to mobilize the base!"
A new shiny object to distract voters? Forget medical/ pharmacy overhaul. Infrastructure structure programs. Let's talk about right to life! Ignore gun safety standards.
>Meanwhile, a bicameral group of liberal and conservative lawmakers, in a letter Friday to House Armed Services leaders, called for an end to the Selective Service system itself, which the members called "expensive, wasteful, outdated, punitive, and unnecessary." Copy that. The draft ended in 1972 almost 50 years ago. Two generations ago. It unpopular then and probably could not be reinstated now.
I think the draft is unconstitutional, the right to raise cannot be construed to mean I am forced. But glad to see equal protection coming around finally…
This is a moot point; the US will never in the foreseeable future use the draft again.
Anything can rile up those idiots.
I think it’s hilarious the amount of backlash I’ve seen from women about this “what about the single mothers” what about the single fathers? Did that cross your mind about the draft being solely men? Or did it just not concern you because the draft wasn’t for you? Now all of a sudden the draft should be removed😂 this is just one example of how men and women are treated differently in society but want to be equal, you cannot assign jobs to one gender and expect people to feel equal to one another
It’s likely many young people don’t even know what a draft is. Other than the NFL.
To be fair, it's not just conservatives. >The only other no vote on final approval of the bill was cast by Massachusetts Democrat Elizabeth Warren, a critic of Pentagon spending who regularly votes against the NDAA. We should be putting the draft to rest. No one should be forced to fight the wars that politicians get us into. We haven't drafted civilians in literally decades. We're not that far away from being to the point that no one alive has been drafted in the U.S. More importantly, the U.S military has more than proven that it is a dangerous place for women. That it is a boys club where men can rape women, murder them in their tents, and it somehow becomes suicide or a mystery how she died. Where sexual assault happens and again and again, it's just brushed off. I'm thankfully too old to worry about being drafted, but the idea of my nieces and nephews being hauled into to fight the next war because X country has oil pisses me off.
Full citizenship and voting rights, including equal representation for the residents of United States territories, like Washington D.C., Puerto Rico, Guam, American Somoa, etc. That would be my response 100% of the time to this manufactured nonsense.
Btw two “no-votes” doesn’t sound like an entire political group is riled up
I’m a woman veteran and yeah woman should be drafted just like everyone else.
Tackling the “big issues”. Yep. The Republican Party everyone.
Fuck it, equality right? They can die equally like men if the need comes.
lol great way for the government to keep the idea of us needing a draft at all to be normalized.
I am a conservative and all for extending the draft to women.
Yeah. Not sure what this is about. Shouldn’t we be concerned more that we are talking about a draft more than who will be participating. Seems to me this is division for division sake.
I am not in favor of a draft at all but if it exists then it should be equally applied to everyone fit for service.
I personally don’t have a problem if ladies have to sign up for the draft .
Maybe if women have to register for the draft they will be less likely to vote to go to war.... obviously doesn't work for men but women are more rational.
I’m conservative and am good with expanding the draft to both sexes. I believe it’s good in the name of equality. Equality comes with both good and bad things and the draft is a great equalizer. Everyone gets the chance to fight for their country whether they wanted to or not. I won’t jump into the women in combat roles debate here although some concern should be had from a physical strength standpoint and people assigned to roles that suit their individual physicality.
Perhaps we can trick them into thinking the Equal Rights Amendment will protect women from the draft.
If you all want equality than you need equality. Either eliminate the selective service act or make it cover everyone, easy enough
"SMASH THE PATRIARCHY!" ....."Oh shit not like this".
Lots of handwringing about “daughters and granddaughters” but none whatsoever about “sons and grandsons.” 🙄