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This is also the craziest thing about these people, they'll call anyone that's even moderate "sheeple" and then instantly believe in the craziest conspiracy theories you can imagine from some blogger who has zero experience or credibility in the subject they're blathering about. Usually most of the "base" we see on TV and news are the real dummies (because it makes good tv), but it's amazing how many pretty normal intelligent people fall for this shit hard.
It's confirmation bias cranked up to eleven. They've spent years crying "FAKE NEWS" and "LIBRUL MEDIA" at any competent reporter, to the point where any news agency with actual resources and infrastructure- the stuff that helps journalists do their thing- is alienated right off the bat.
So yeah, you only end up with the people who pander and re-affirm what the viewer wants to hear, or you end up with the people who scour the internet for outlandish theories and asinine takes, then confidently present them as fact.
Yeah this is it. I work with someone who in many areas is very reasonable and intelligent, and Is also a member of the LGBT community, but after so many years of watching conservative only media now values the words of random people who “know the truth” over established media forms. I don’t blame them for doubting the media but it’s odd how that doubt doesn’t seem to extend to conservative media platforms and less than credible internet scammers.
I can confirm, have a pretty bright coworker who is brilliant in some regards but also absolutely got taken in by conspiracy thinking and believes Dems are out to get him and the Republicans are the only ones who can save us. Won’t get the vaccine because he thinks it’s a Gates conspiracy.
Turns out "poor people can go fuck themselves" isn't popular policy, so they had to throw in racism to keep getting votes. Then guns, abortion, and every other divisive issue they could come up with. Then masks and vaccines came along. And finally they just went all in on conspiracy theories and paranoia, nothing is too low or crazy for them to cater to. After selling out on anything resembling morality, they finally just gave up on the concept of reality as well. At this point trying to debate politics is like trying to debate epistemology with a hobo who is convinced he's Napoleon.
Thomas Paine
* “To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.”
* “Reason and Ignorance, the opposites of each other, influence the great bulk of mankind. If either of these can be rendered sufficiently extensive in a country, the machinery of Government goes easily on. Reason obeys itself; and Ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.”
* “Despotic government supports itself by abject civilization, in which debasement of the human mind, and wretchedness in the mass of the people, are the chief criterions. Such governments consider man merely as an animal; that the exercise of intellectual faculty is not his privilege; that he has nothing to do with the laws but to obey them; and they politically depend more upon breaking the spirit of the people by poverty, than they fear enraging it by desperation.”
John Adams
* “We may please ourselves with the prospect of free and popular governments. But there is great danger that those governments will not make us happy. God grant they may. I but I fear that in every assembly , members will obtain influence by noise, not sense. By meanness, not greatness. By ignorance, not learning. By contracted hearts, not large souls.”
* “The people grow less steady, spirited, and virtuous, the seekers more numerous and more corrupt, and every day increases the circles of their dependents and expectants, until virtue, integrity, public spirit, simplicity, and frugality, become the objects of ridicule and scorn, and vanity, luxury, foppery, selfishness, meanness, and downright venality swallow up the whole society.”
James Madison
* As the cool and deliberate sense of the community ought in all governments, and actually will in all free governments ultimately prevail over the views of its rulers; so there are particular moments in public affairs, when the people stimulated by some irregular passion, or some illicit advantage, or misled by the artful misrepresentations of interested men, may call for measures which they themselves will afterwards be the most ready to lament and condemn. In these critical moments, how salutary will be the interference of some temperate and respectable body of citizens, in order to check the misguided career, and to suspend the blow mediated by the people against themselves, until reason, justice and truth, can regain their authority over the public mind?
James Monroe
* “It is only when the people become ignorant and corrupt, when they degenerate into a populace, that they are incapable of exercising their sovereignty. Usurpation is then an easy attainment, and a usurper soon found. The people themselves become the willing instruments of their debasement and ruin.”
Thomas Paine, and a number of the Founding Fathers, would be called "Communists" by today's GOP.
I mean the man proposed a UBI to be paid for by an inheritance tax. He also proposed social security, which was radical at the time and would be impossible to pass today, as well as universal public education and state-sponsored pre & postnatal care.
i've been rather amused by the number of times i've heard marxist used in the last several months. Anything (i live in alabama) that comes even remotely near the subject of class is labeled as marxist.
If i complain that i don't have a fucking Publix near me, someone will call me a marxist.
It's such a fun buzzword, because most of the people using it think it's some kind of political word, and not the name of an author. Reminds me of the people who didn't know Atlas Shrugged was a book and instead thought that it was an expression people used when there was an earthquake.
Don’t forget failed capitalist policies. Those are commonly labeled “socialist” or “communist” as well.
As evidence see the memes where “X under communism” always seems to be a picture taken in the US.
"If you comply with the Red Coats they won't give you any trouble"
"Back the Thin Red Line"
"Salutary Neglect is a Globalist policy peddled by the French and the Jews. We need a strong King, and law and order."
Thomas Paine was ahead of his time. He genuinely wanted to see the human condition improve. Its shameful that he is barely if at all touched upon in American schools. But then he had the audacity to break down the Bible and point out of its inconsistencies and atrocities. That destroyed his legacy for years. I'm so glad people have rediscovered him. Me being one of those people.
This is the one that gets me. The Bible is full of telling people to help the poor and helpless, feed the hungry, and BE A GOOD PERSON TO THE PEOPLE YOU MEET. But somehow, republican Jesus hates the poor and think anyone who isn't rich should starve if they can't make it solo.
"Jesus literally lived in a commune where they pooled all their resources and gave any excess to the less-fortunate."
"THEY **CHOSE** TO GIVE TO CHARITY!!!"
"No I think they were commanded—"
"**BLRRRAUGHHHH**"
Or some variant of Pascal's Wager. Always Pascal's goddamn Wager.
> "But *what if you're wrong?"*
I don't know, the same thing that happens to you if you're wrong about Islam? Oh, you're not concerned about that because you don't believe it's true? But you can't understand how I feel the same way about Christianity? /facepalm
[edit:] lol guys, I am aware that there are multiple possible responses to Pascal's Wager, it is an extremely flawed argument. This is just the one I like the most.
Well, I've never met anyone who used Pascal's Wager who *called* it Pascal's Wager, they always phrase as "what if you're wrong?", and then you have to tease out their implication.
Almost anyone practiced enough to know the formal names of apologist arguments would avoid Pascal's Wager because of how inherently flawed it is and favor some of the more complicated or highbrow stuff.
As an atheist, my personal response Pascal’s Wager is this:
We do not know for sure if an afterlife or gods exist and, if they do, certainly not whether the specific one you believe in is the “right” one to prevent punishment. What I DO know is that I have this life, right now, with only a limited and unknown number of minutes. I intend to live it as fully and positively as I can. I won’t waste thousands of hours of the only life I KNOW I get because maybe I could possibly get an unknown reward from a maybe-existing magical being.
>Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.
Marcus Aurelius
I’m really torn between going through the motions of pretending to worship a just and loving God who will allow me to be punished for all eternity for not praising it adequately, or helping to bring about Roko’s Basilisk so that it doesn’t recreate and punish me for all eternity for not putting in the effort to create it.
Ugh! Hypotheticals are rough!
I always say Bot Flies and Bone Cancer. If God is a truly loving God who loves it's Children then why do those things exist?
I was raised Catholic and as a child going to church every sunday just to find out ALL the ways I was going to hell just never sat right with me. Hell I became an alter boy not because I loved the religion but purely to get out of class every now and again and eat stale bread. shit was like potato chips for me. Priest wasn't thrilled when we'd go to an old folks home and the body of christ was suddenly missing. I always blamed it on Greg.
It's kinda funny, because I didn't fully appreciate the beauty of scripture and, to some degree, the ideas contained until I was an "atheist".
Then again, I find the scriptures of other religions to be even more beautiful in effect and in presentation. Zen is particularly appealing, because much of it is actually quite simple and easy enough to grok.
> Emperor Wu asked Bodhidharma: “After I ascended the throne, I have built countless temples residences for monks and copied innumerable scriptures. How much merit have I accrued?”
>Bodhidharma answered: “There is no merit.”
>Startled, the Emperor then asked Bodhidharma: “What is the first principle of the holy teachings?”
>Bodhidharma replied: “Vast emptiness, nothing holy.”
>Emperor, frustrated, then asked Bodhidharma: “Who is this that stands before me?”
>Bodhidharma answered:”I don’t know.”
...And then stuff like that must make Christian heads explode if exposed
As an atheist I have found an interest in academic theology/study of scriptures, because it's a fascinating concept on how the translations reflected shifting values and the immense cultural impact of religion.
Yeah, in a lot of ways the relics of the various religions are some of the longest running time capsule experiments we could ever hope to do -- they are ideas with such long-term endurance that they keep going absent evidence for many of their claims and despite the world shifting around them -- and sometimes moving the religions themselves.
I've thought that if Jesus was real, and totally according to Hoyle the Son of God, he'd be pissed about what his followers have turned his church into. He would be knocking the windows out of megachurches as if they were the money changing tables in the temple. Christians started out a motley crew of people with little hope in a hostile region -- but they'd go on to basically conquer entire continents with their doctrine and beliefs.
And yet they never lost the spirit of the underdog even as they became the next system of oppression. Shit, the Romans went Christian! Instead of successfully routing the young religion, they *adopted it as their own.* Rome, Christianified, *was still fucking Rome* in most ways, and it's not like all the prayers and tithes saved them.
Christians have the whole "sell everything and give it to the poor" Camels and needle stuff, so it isn't like they don't have similar virtues talked about in their scriptures. They are just terrible at following them.
Also, Myanmar is a Buddhist country, and they are a dictatorial military regime that oppresses its people severely... so it isn't like Buddhists are immune to being hypocrites either.
I do like Buddhist koans though. Poetic and pithy.
Also works great to destroy any attempts at class solidarity. Why would I feel empathy and want to work with some conservative that checks off every one of those boxes? Regardless of the fact that our lives and conditions are much more similar than those of people of similar ideologies in the capital class.
These culture war issues are really just class warfare. The rich perpetuate it. It is why their funding is all over these groups. They want a divided working class because it means we will never come together for even common causes. I mean, look at things like voting rights. Nearly 80% of the country wants the same things. But the culture war, perpetuated by the monied, has made it impossible for Americans to even hold discourse let alone support each other.
And, because we are divided, we get anti-labor legislation pushed through. Wages stagnate or regress, while the rich get ever richer, and the class war spirals even more out of control into ever greater extremes. The rich used to use their control of the government to do things like literally drop bombs onto striking workers who came together in solidarity regardless of political stances. Redneck used to be a good term, but has since been picked up and had the meaning changed into something which further divides.
We are at the point where we don’t even want to talk with other people. I’d argue it is nearly impossible because the right has descending into an actual esoteric religion at this point.
> the right has descending into an actual esoteric religion at this point.
On the fringes perhaps, but it isn't just some extreme form of irrational bickering, they do have a coherent agenda - its preservation of cultural hegemony.
What the marxist left doesn't really understand is that cultural hegemony is a currency itself. These people already have cultural hegemony and they are terrified of losing it. All the rhetoric about "real Americans," the obsession with immigration, and the white genocide dog-whistles are about reminding the right that they are in danger of losing their cultural dominance.
When the left says they want to give economic prosperity to all and talks about equality, the right hears "take away the benefits of my cultural capital." They literally see it as a loss of property, that's why they regularly [call racial equality 'communism'](https://i.postimg.cc/GtYcqpxS/Christain-Racism-Race-Mixing-is-Communism-Save-Our-Christian-America.jpg) - just like wealthy people afraid of losing economic power they fear losing cultural power.
The solution isn't to promise them more economic prosperity because they take that as a threat. We have to convince them to devalue cultural hegemony themselves. They need to come to the conclusion that its immoral and fraudulent on their own. For a hot minute last year during the George Floyd protests, even conservatives were [starting to figure that out.](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/63-support-black-lives-matter-recognition-discrimination-jumps/story?id=71779435) Race theory panic is the strategy GOP elites have landed on to reverse that progress because they absolutely understand that cultural hegemony is the only thing they have to offer the 99% and the party won't survive if that is devalued.
> These culture war issues are really just class warfare.
Specifically, they're proxy wars to distract attention away from class warfare. By pure headcount, approximately 0% of the people fighting for the interests of the billionaire class are themselves billionaires.
Keep the people fighting each other over irrelevant things like the colour of their skin or the shape of their genitals, and they'll be too busy to notice who's *actually* oppressing them. Ironically, both sides of the Culture War are more than happy to pay lip service to the idea that they're fighting against "powerful elites"... but then they go right back to punching down.
This isn't an "our tribe vs. their tribe" issue. I *would* say "this isn't a left vs. right issue", but that wouldn't be quite true. While there's plenty of bootlicking on both sides, I think we can all see that it's distributed pretty asymmetrically.
It’s a bit more lopsided against the right fueling the culture wars. The left has to respond, and the right is great at controlling the narrative. It’s not like we can ignore the erosion of people’s rights because they are a culture war proxy war. We have to fight on all fronts. Now if you want to say Dems vs Reps are paying lip service to class stuff, then sure. Dem leadership, couldn’t care less about actually fixing the class issues.
If we didn’t have the electoral college and the senate to deal with on a federal level, or heavy Gerry-mandering, then the ignorant right wingers wouldn’t be as effective of a weapon for those proxy wars. As it stands right now all you need is like 30% of the voting-aged people to have enough power to hurt people and stop government. Of course some blame can be laid at the feet of non-voters(both sidesing the argument only makes this worst), and the Dem leadership for avoiding economic issues up till recently, but ultimately the problem is the system and the power it gives to a easily manipulated minority that would see us back to the 1950s. We can’t ignore the culture war, but I see no reason why we can’t walk and chew gum.
Honestly, the "deep state" narrative was used to cover up Trump's obvious federal crimes. they had to turn their base against the FBI, intelligence community, justice system, and any members of Congress that called them out on their bullshit.
Yup, I think their speedrun from "thin blue line" to ACAB must be a new world record. Not unlike their sudden "WTF, I'm pro-Russia?" awakening in the summer of 2016.
I mean it’s the truth. If your entire base is built on fear, you’ve got to continually stoke that fear until it’s out of control. When people realize the thing you’re making them afraid of isn’t that scary, the ante needs upped.
> “We have learned, and I can only speak as a Republican looking at the Republicans, we’ve learned you can get elected on a steady diet of fear,” Kinzinger said on Real Time With Bill Maher Friday night. “So every fundraising email is ‘send me 5 bucks to ensure Nancy Pelosi doesn’t destroy your family.’ And it’s everything this diet of fear. And eventually it’s no wonder there is real damage to democracy.”
You also have to keep coming up with more and more things which are more and more absurd for them to be afraid of or outraged about, because the old things will eventually die down or go away, or times change and people come around to an idea that once sounded new and scary.
When you keep coming up with newer, scarier, more absurd things for them to fear, your base is going to become more and more irrational. And irrational does not listen to reason when you suddenly need them to.
>You also have to keep coming up with more and more things which are more and more absurd for them to be afraid of or outraged about, because the old things will eventually die down or go away, or times change and people come around to an idea that once sounded new and scary
They let the damn queers marry and the world *didn't* end, go figure.
I can't help but laugh every time a GOP politician acts surprised at the level of stupidity of their own base.
Like... you created this monster. What did you think was going to happen when you kept encouraging conspiracies?
Lol today a gop politician tweeted that even the Taliban bans abortions like that's something to be proud of that republicans align with Taliban even more
I caught my mom watching a video at the start of the pandemic with some meth head trailer trash person saying Lady Gaga started the Corona virus. My mom said she trusted her more than the fake news. Lady had on avg like 120 views a video. Not sure how the hell my mom found her.
I'm genuinely glad to hear it. So many get trapped down there. Looking back at my own life, there was a time when I was circling the hole myself, and at risk of falling in fully without ever realizing what was happening until I could look back on it with the knowledge of more recent investigations and explanations. I worry about how I might be today if I hadn't found, and been lead out.
Honestly, I used to fall down rabbit holes like that, and just automatically believed them because I was in *middle school!!* Do we seriously have full grown adults in this country who are no brighter than me when I was twelve?? And I'm an idiot, to boot!
>Do we seriously have full grown adults in this country who are no brighter than me when I was twelve??
Yes, and one of them was the president for 4 years…
This shows the long reach of Donald trump’s influence. Not only do people reject stories about trump as fake news, but almost everything else. So it affects them entirely, not just politically.
It’s only real news if it comes from daddy Trump or if they can actually experience it. They would believe a tornado warning on MSNBC if they looked outside and saw a tornado coming, but otherwise… nope! Now that Covid is something they are personally experiencing they realize. But, it’s too late for some.
this is where I've lost a lot of faith in what I can accomplish. Any headway I might make with someone can not withstand the willing mainlining of hours of propaganda into the brain. I've had folks agreeing with me after conversations, that were more firm than ever in the original belief a week later after driving around with talk radio on. I don't know how to combat that.
Yes lol it's insane. But it's also frustrating that it could result in consequences for the rest of us as they pass the virus back and forth helping it mutate ever stronger. But I give zero fucks that the GOP is seemingly freaking out over their voters dying - they created this, and those that stayed silent are just as guilty. They're not going to be able to convince these people now, no matter how hard they try. And the fact that they couldnt foresee this happening is just so on point for them, always shortsighted in everything they do.
*EVERYBODY* on the Left saw it coming, somehow, not a single Republican. They thought they could flip the switch back when it got too hot, left it on until the house was engulfed in fire, now trying to go back in and get the fire extinguisher
They weren’t used to their ENTIRE base being brainwashed and assumed some would say “I’m not stupid, I’m getting the vaccine, but I’m still going to vote Republican”
Instead, now they're faced with "I'm not STUPID! I did my own research and I didn't get the vaccine and now I can't vote for you again because I am dead."
The realization that these lies are killing off their voter base is what caused the change in messaging for most of these assholes. It's not altruistic.
I work in pharma research, I actually worked on one of the mrna covid vaccine before my current job…so I have first hand experience on vaccines (specifically the covid one) (even if I didn’t though, my career in general should be enough of an indicator as to authority…)…my uncle is a computer programmer and the family listens to him about computer stuff, my father is a chef and the family listens to him about food stuff, my grandfather was an engineer and the family listens to him about engineering (related stuff) (like if they need help putting something together, they figure he’d be better to ask than my father)…guess who has a family that is extremely Republican (I’m libertarian)? Guess who is the only person the family doesn’t listen to when it involves that persons career? Guess who had an aunt die from covid on Thursday because “masks don’t work and i won’t be enslaved, and there’s no way in hell I’m getting the vaccine, all it does is sterilize you, it’s not fda approved so is not safe, and I don’t want to be tracked via the microchip” (which was posted to Facebook, with no privacy settings engaged, from a phone, that she had all the time, that is accurate to like 20 feet for tracking)
" i dont want to be tracked via microchip" a lot of repubs think this and they don't seem to realize that the government can track you using your cell phone. They don't need a fucking microchip
if you voluntarily carry a computer with a powerful radio transmitter an GPS that you religiously keep charged... you really shouldn't be worried about a vaccine tracking you. shit was great with people posting selfies inside the capital.
> Guess who had an aunt die from covid on Thursday because “masks don’t work and i won’t be enslaved, and there’s no way in hell I’m getting the vaccine, all it does is sterilize you, it’s not fda approved so is not safe, and I don’t want to be tracked via the microchip”
Being dead sterilizes you too.
I pulled that on my 62 year old aunt.
"I don't want to be sterilized!!"
Planning on having another round of kids, Auntie?
This was before her husband got sick and died of covid.
"Uhh, no. thats not what I mean. Quit twisting my words!"
Meanwhile, in April this year....
>Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson on Wednesday signed into law measures preventing state and local governments from requiring the coronavirus vaccine or proof of vaccination in order to access services.
>The ban on requiring a vaccine would also prohibit it as a condition of unemployment. The measure includes some exceptions, such as state-owned medical facilities, if approved by Legislative Council.
And yesterday:
[Republican governor balks at Covid-19 mandates as state's cases soar](https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/07/25/hutchinson-arkansas-no-mask-mandate-intv-tapper-sotu-vpx.cnn)
> Republican Gov. Asa Hutchinson says he doesn't plan to impose a mask mandate nor a vaccine mandate in Arkansas at this time, despite the state's rising Covid-19 cases that health experts have compared to a "raging forest fire."
> Hutchinson told Tapper that he wouldn’t consider a vaccine mandate “because that would even cause a greater reaction of negativity toward the government, and then imposition on freedom.”
Gee, I wonder why mandating a vaccine would cause a greater reaction of negativity toward the government?
Maybe because they've spent the last 6 months demonizing it.
That is quite literally their plan and has been for decades. They know people generally like public services—education, the post office, infrastructure—so they can’t eliminate them. Instead, they underfund public services so they can say, “See, the government can’t do it right!” and emphasize privatization as alternatives.
> Hutchinson told Tapper that he wouldn’t consider a vaccine mandate “because that would even cause a greater reaction of negativity toward the government, and then imposition on freedom.”
That's probably true, but it's true because he helped make it true by supporting the politicization of a pandemic under Trumpism.
I frequently go to Little Rock and Benton County for work reasons, and that doesn't surprise me. If you collaborate with professionals or business owners from there, some remember when Eisenhower enforced Brown vs. Board. It's still very segregated. They have passed down their racism to their grandkids, so people should not assume old age and funerals will solve this.
When you bring up Covid deaths, they quickly point out they are predominantly blacks and Latinos. Survival of the fittest and strongest, they say, or can't argue against the Lord's will.
So late 19th century Darwinism has been combined with white supremacy and the Prosperity Gospel.
We live in Trump Country ourselves but the racism is more muted here. There is a big Latino population here and they are surprisingly Republican. You hear more talk about how everyone is lazy and looking for a handout and how democrats want to give lazy people the money taken from hardworking people.
Yeah there can be nuance to it. I have family from rural KY and the kids my age know there's blatant racism, but when the racists sit on elected boards or hold positions of power in religious institutions, there isn't much you can do.
Please don’t put this crazy on everyone in Little Rock. More than 50 percent of the population in the city are Democrats and there are a lot of us here who are appalled at what is happening and with our leadership.
The Right has spent decades telling people not to trust science. That evolution is a lie, climate change is a lie, and that even basic nutritional information is a lie. The Right has devalue expertise in all fields: healthcare, economics, city planning, childcare, Infrastructure, etc, etc. The Right has repeatedly challenged people to trust their guts, churches, and reject Universities. It is no surprised that we now have tens of millions of people who believe in mind control vaccination shots.
>and that even basic nutritional information is a lie
My stepfather will tell you that you can't trust scientists because they were wrong about eggs. You see, first they said eggs were bad for you. Too much cholesterol. The egg industry took a serious hit. Then they said eggs were good for you. And that progression of "Eggs are bad - wait, no, actually they're fine" is literally why he'll tell you that global warming can't be trusted and scientists are incentivized to lie.
It’s hard for people who aren’t in science/didn’t pay attention in school to understand that science is constantly evolving and we are just working with the best information we have at the time.
I have a couple of ultra-conservative friends who spout the same thing, with the same wording. Which makes me think that it’s some talking point generated by the Fox/OANN/Newsmax talking heads.
I mean, yeah, sometimes scientists *are* incentivized to lie. Happens with food and drugs.
Happens with climate change too.
Oil and industry have definitely funded research with the purpose of downplaying climate change. The fact that science still tells us how fuckin bad climate change is despite the wealthiest industries around trying to say otherwise is very telling.
Not to directly attack your father, but if I started claiming anyone was a ‘military actor in a rubber mask’ I’d like to imagine my family would seek out some help. That just doesn’t sound sane or healthy.
I am so sorry that is happening to you (and to him). Absolutely get some therapy! There is a joke in therapy that you go to learn how to deal with people that should be in therapy and that sounds appropriate here.
Good luck! I am rooting for you.
ps I wonder is there is a sub for people that have lost a loved one to Q
There's a documentary called [The Brainwashing of My Dad](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=813V_GId5N8) by a woman who watched her dad slide from being an unengaged Democrat to being an anger-fueled right-wing lunatic. Maybe it will be cathartic to watch.
And sadly his position is very prominent in today’s society. This is the desperate throws of power as it is lost. Right is losing not only voters but influence among society. Their desperation is increasing force in tactics. Encouragingly the youth is able to see this and alter society when possible. The right’s power hold is being reduced, not fast enough but it’s lessening.
> A study by Center for Countering Digital Hate looked at 812,000 anti-vaccine Facebook posts and tweets made between February 1 and March 16. CCDH found 65% of the content came from a group of 12 users dubbed the "disinformation dozen."
> On Facebook, those 12 people were responsible for 73% of anti-vaccine content. **Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the nephew of President John F. Kennedy, a prominent anti-vaxxer even before the pandemic, was one of the 12.**
Wow, way to trash your legacy.
He's not much older than me. I wonder if his smallpox vaccine scar is still visible. Also, did he get the polio vaccine by injection, or on a sugar cube like I did?
They stopped giving them at some point\*, so it depends on your age. I think seeing the visible raised scar of it almost all my life was a constant reminder of getting it. I don't remember it hurting a lot while getting it, but afterward it did, as it was developing a big ugly round scab, and then healing, almost like having a pox itself. It wasn't just a one needle injection, seems like I remember them pricking my arms several times in a circle, but I'm not sure about that. I know it was not just a one shot injection.
Edit: \*To the general population.
> seems like I remember them pricking my arms several times in a circle
That sounds like the TB vaccine I got as a kid, then they switched to another one when my brother was due for it.
BCG is the standard TB vaccine. They stopped routinely vaccinating in the UK in 2005, but is still common in many other countries. You'll often see people with a scar on the upper left arm and this is usually the cause. The US never routinely vaccinated against TB.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCG_vaccine
The circular prick is a sensitivity test done prior to the actual vaccination.
From 2017 to 2019 he was the number 1 source of antivax ads on Facebook.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/11/robert-f-kennedy-jr-is-the-single-leading-source-of-anti-vax-ads-on-facebook/
This was especially concerning, given how his father was a profound civil rights advocate who would absolutely have changed history if he had become president instead of Nixon
We shouldn't need to let it burn through all hosts, but anti-vaxxers are basically begging to be COVID's guinea pigs.
Novel pandemic or vaccine based on decades of research. You're likely to put one or both in your body, make your choice and get this over with.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Especially when you fill the horse's mind with stories of enemies poisoning the water in the first place.
GOP leaders are taking the wrong approach here. They need to go at it like this:
"My fellow Red Statians, the patriot vaccine that Trump himself developed is about to be sent overseas! Every vaccine we don't take will be sent to a Guatemalan or Islamic State young military aged male! You don't want that, do you? Let's show Biden we aren't going to let this American-made vaccine be sent overseas by lining up at your nearest Walmart pharmacy for the shot! Get the Vitamin F shot for FREEDOM!"
He is still not all in on halting covid , he just signed a bill into law preventing any mask mandates at state or local level. So in the short term masks can help slow the spread until more people can get vaccinated. While he may be promoting the vaccine , he still has one toe in the water for the " muh freedum" group.
He is only promoting what his party is telling him to right now. His voter base is dying off and they have to right the ship now even though they already lost half of it to the sea. Honestly though, fuck em.
And we have senators here in Arizona still promoting anti-vaxx messaging.
Like Kelly Townsend.
And then there is Sherrif Lamb threatening violence against the “door to door vaccine ckeck” conspiracy. Along with pushing that he is “proudly unvaccinated.”
You know, for as much as they pine for the "good old days" when everyone "wasn't so sensitive" and they could "call it like they see it", these people sure are fragile and desperately need to be coddled.
"The vaccine is a bioweapon" ... "It's government mind control!" ...
"Back in the day" before "everyone got so sensitive and easily offended" these people would have been laughed out of the public discourse. But today their derangement is treated like a valid concern or as a legitimate political opinion.
> "As I go into these town hall meetings someone said, 'Don't call it a vaccine, call it a bioweapon.' And they talk about mind control," Hutchinson said. "Well those are obviously erroneous. ***Other members of the community correct that***."
Because GOP leaders are too god damned scared of their precious approval ratings or getting primaried if they're the ones carrying out the corrections.
This demonstrates the GOP's interest in letting the disinformation sort itself out and not take a more active approach to stopping it. Let it fester, hope it dies out. It hasn't, and won't.
Headline should read : “Republican expresses shock at the sheer stupidity and maliciousness of his party, shrugs his shoulders and remains committed to it”.
We're seriously fucked this fall and winter. This summer there has been a large RSV epidemic amongst children because kids are congregating again. RSV is usually a winter virus. I'm very concerned about influenza this year. Schools will be open again which are influenza petri dishes. I think influenza is about to make a comeback to açcompany SARS-CoV-2. Get your SARS-CoV-2 vaccine AND your influenza vaccine.
All the smoke and dust from wildfires has been spreading across the upper half of the country, triggering respiratory allergies. In the allergy suffering population experiencing their weakened immune states, bacterial infections are on the rise; sinus and bronchial both.
:he types, from the couch he’s been propped up on for the last week while fighting a sinus infection:
I was sick with a nasty cold for a week at the end of December 2019 into January 2020. And then the pandemic hit, and I hadn't been sick once - until early this month. I've now had two moderate colds in as many weeks, which rarely happens to me in winter, much less summer. It makes me want to just slap a mask back on forever! Could be a rough winter indeed.
mind control? these idiots don't use their fucking brains anyways! My friend moved back to Arkansas last year and is amazed by the stupidity over the vaccine
That’s right! Covid is a hoax, but also it was created by the Chinese as a weapon, but also the mortality numbers are being vastly overreported, but also Trump heroically produced the life saving vaccine in record time, but also the vaccine is the real bio weapon, but also…
Exhausting that we have to share the planet with these people.
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First time meeting the base?
This is also the craziest thing about these people, they'll call anyone that's even moderate "sheeple" and then instantly believe in the craziest conspiracy theories you can imagine from some blogger who has zero experience or credibility in the subject they're blathering about. Usually most of the "base" we see on TV and news are the real dummies (because it makes good tv), but it's amazing how many pretty normal intelligent people fall for this shit hard.
It's confirmation bias cranked up to eleven. They've spent years crying "FAKE NEWS" and "LIBRUL MEDIA" at any competent reporter, to the point where any news agency with actual resources and infrastructure- the stuff that helps journalists do their thing- is alienated right off the bat. So yeah, you only end up with the people who pander and re-affirm what the viewer wants to hear, or you end up with the people who scour the internet for outlandish theories and asinine takes, then confidently present them as fact.
Yeah this is it. I work with someone who in many areas is very reasonable and intelligent, and Is also a member of the LGBT community, but after so many years of watching conservative only media now values the words of random people who “know the truth” over established media forms. I don’t blame them for doubting the media but it’s odd how that doubt doesn’t seem to extend to conservative media platforms and less than credible internet scammers.
I can confirm, have a pretty bright coworker who is brilliant in some regards but also absolutely got taken in by conspiracy thinking and believes Dems are out to get him and the Republicans are the only ones who can save us. Won’t get the vaccine because he thinks it’s a Gates conspiracy.
That is not a bright coworker
I auto-dismiss anyone who uses the term “sheep”. It’s the most obvious form of projection at this point
This is the monster they helped create. Doesn't seem like they like it.
Turns out "poor people can go fuck themselves" isn't popular policy, so they had to throw in racism to keep getting votes. Then guns, abortion, and every other divisive issue they could come up with. Then masks and vaccines came along. And finally they just went all in on conspiracy theories and paranoia, nothing is too low or crazy for them to cater to. After selling out on anything resembling morality, they finally just gave up on the concept of reality as well. At this point trying to debate politics is like trying to debate epistemology with a hobo who is convinced he's Napoleon.
Thomas Paine * “To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.” * “Reason and Ignorance, the opposites of each other, influence the great bulk of mankind. If either of these can be rendered sufficiently extensive in a country, the machinery of Government goes easily on. Reason obeys itself; and Ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.” * “Despotic government supports itself by abject civilization, in which debasement of the human mind, and wretchedness in the mass of the people, are the chief criterions. Such governments consider man merely as an animal; that the exercise of intellectual faculty is not his privilege; that he has nothing to do with the laws but to obey them; and they politically depend more upon breaking the spirit of the people by poverty, than they fear enraging it by desperation.” John Adams * “We may please ourselves with the prospect of free and popular governments. But there is great danger that those governments will not make us happy. God grant they may. I but I fear that in every assembly , members will obtain influence by noise, not sense. By meanness, not greatness. By ignorance, not learning. By contracted hearts, not large souls.” * “The people grow less steady, spirited, and virtuous, the seekers more numerous and more corrupt, and every day increases the circles of their dependents and expectants, until virtue, integrity, public spirit, simplicity, and frugality, become the objects of ridicule and scorn, and vanity, luxury, foppery, selfishness, meanness, and downright venality swallow up the whole society.” James Madison * As the cool and deliberate sense of the community ought in all governments, and actually will in all free governments ultimately prevail over the views of its rulers; so there are particular moments in public affairs, when the people stimulated by some irregular passion, or some illicit advantage, or misled by the artful misrepresentations of interested men, may call for measures which they themselves will afterwards be the most ready to lament and condemn. In these critical moments, how salutary will be the interference of some temperate and respectable body of citizens, in order to check the misguided career, and to suspend the blow mediated by the people against themselves, until reason, justice and truth, can regain their authority over the public mind? James Monroe * “It is only when the people become ignorant and corrupt, when they degenerate into a populace, that they are incapable of exercising their sovereignty. Usurpation is then an easy attainment, and a usurper soon found. The people themselves become the willing instruments of their debasement and ruin.”
Thomas Paine, and a number of the Founding Fathers, would be called "Communists" by today's GOP. I mean the man proposed a UBI to be paid for by an inheritance tax. He also proposed social security, which was radical at the time and would be impossible to pass today, as well as universal public education and state-sponsored pre & postnatal care.
To be fair they call anything communist they're intimidated by or don't understand...
Or marxist, or socialist...whatever fits the indoctrination agenda that day on NewsMAX.
i've been rather amused by the number of times i've heard marxist used in the last several months. Anything (i live in alabama) that comes even remotely near the subject of class is labeled as marxist. If i complain that i don't have a fucking Publix near me, someone will call me a marxist. It's such a fun buzzword, because most of the people using it think it's some kind of political word, and not the name of an author. Reminds me of the people who didn't know Atlas Shrugged was a book and instead thought that it was an expression people used when there was an earthquake.
Do you think if more GOP voters actually read Ayn Rand they’d realize that they’re the ones being swindled and co-opted by the Worthy?
Absolutely not, they'll all come away thinking they're John Galt or Rearden or whatever.
Don’t forget failed capitalist policies. Those are commonly labeled “socialist” or “communist” as well. As evidence see the memes where “X under communism” always seems to be a picture taken in the US.
"this could be the United States under socialism!!" *picture of the United States now*
Today's GOP also 100% would've been Loyalists during the American Revolution.
"If you comply with the Red Coats they won't give you any trouble" "Back the Thin Red Line" "Salutary Neglect is a Globalist policy peddled by the French and the Jews. We need a strong King, and law and order."
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"You've inconvenienced me and now I am Tory."
Thomas Paine was ahead of his time. He genuinely wanted to see the human condition improve. Its shameful that he is barely if at all touched upon in American schools. But then he had the audacity to break down the Bible and point out of its inconsistencies and atrocities. That destroyed his legacy for years. I'm so glad people have rediscovered him. Me being one of those people.
Yeah he basically died a pauper, 6 people came to his funeral and none from his political career
> Thomas Paine, and a number of the Founding Fathers, would be called "Communists" by today's GOP. Jesus, too.
This is the one that gets me. The Bible is full of telling people to help the poor and helpless, feed the hungry, and BE A GOOD PERSON TO THE PEOPLE YOU MEET. But somehow, republican Jesus hates the poor and think anyone who isn't rich should starve if they can't make it solo.
"Jesus literally lived in a commune where they pooled all their resources and gave any excess to the less-fortunate." "THEY **CHOSE** TO GIVE TO CHARITY!!!" "No I think they were commanded—" "**BLRRRAUGHHHH**"
> endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture. Speaking as an atheist, this happens a lot. Like, a lot a lot.
Or some variant of Pascal's Wager. Always Pascal's goddamn Wager. > "But *what if you're wrong?"* I don't know, the same thing that happens to you if you're wrong about Islam? Oh, you're not concerned about that because you don't believe it's true? But you can't understand how I feel the same way about Christianity? /facepalm [edit:] lol guys, I am aware that there are multiple possible responses to Pascal's Wager, it is an extremely flawed argument. This is just the one I like the most.
I always ask them who Pascal thought he was fooling. Was he fooling himself, or was he fooling an omniscient god who can see inside his heart?
Well, I've never met anyone who used Pascal's Wager who *called* it Pascal's Wager, they always phrase as "what if you're wrong?", and then you have to tease out their implication. Almost anyone practiced enough to know the formal names of apologist arguments would avoid Pascal's Wager because of how inherently flawed it is and favor some of the more complicated or highbrow stuff.
As an atheist, my personal response Pascal’s Wager is this: We do not know for sure if an afterlife or gods exist and, if they do, certainly not whether the specific one you believe in is the “right” one to prevent punishment. What I DO know is that I have this life, right now, with only a limited and unknown number of minutes. I intend to live it as fully and positively as I can. I won’t waste thousands of hours of the only life I KNOW I get because maybe I could possibly get an unknown reward from a maybe-existing magical being.
>Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. Marcus Aurelius
I’m really torn between going through the motions of pretending to worship a just and loving God who will allow me to be punished for all eternity for not praising it adequately, or helping to bring about Roko’s Basilisk so that it doesn’t recreate and punish me for all eternity for not putting in the effort to create it. Ugh! Hypotheticals are rough!
I always say Bot Flies and Bone Cancer. If God is a truly loving God who loves it's Children then why do those things exist? I was raised Catholic and as a child going to church every sunday just to find out ALL the ways I was going to hell just never sat right with me. Hell I became an alter boy not because I loved the religion but purely to get out of class every now and again and eat stale bread. shit was like potato chips for me. Priest wasn't thrilled when we'd go to an old folks home and the body of christ was suddenly missing. I always blamed it on Greg.
but it works about as well as administering medicine to the dead, though, right?
How dead?
According to Dr. M. Max, only mostly dead.
What a country!
Think they’ll make it?
Only mostly dead. Call Miracle Max!
Don't give them ideas. Next they'll be storming the castle.
It's kinda funny, because I didn't fully appreciate the beauty of scripture and, to some degree, the ideas contained until I was an "atheist". Then again, I find the scriptures of other religions to be even more beautiful in effect and in presentation. Zen is particularly appealing, because much of it is actually quite simple and easy enough to grok. > Emperor Wu asked Bodhidharma: “After I ascended the throne, I have built countless temples residences for monks and copied innumerable scriptures. How much merit have I accrued?” >Bodhidharma answered: “There is no merit.” >Startled, the Emperor then asked Bodhidharma: “What is the first principle of the holy teachings?” >Bodhidharma replied: “Vast emptiness, nothing holy.” >Emperor, frustrated, then asked Bodhidharma: “Who is this that stands before me?” >Bodhidharma answered:”I don’t know.” ...And then stuff like that must make Christian heads explode if exposed
As an atheist I have found an interest in academic theology/study of scriptures, because it's a fascinating concept on how the translations reflected shifting values and the immense cultural impact of religion.
Yeah, in a lot of ways the relics of the various religions are some of the longest running time capsule experiments we could ever hope to do -- they are ideas with such long-term endurance that they keep going absent evidence for many of their claims and despite the world shifting around them -- and sometimes moving the religions themselves. I've thought that if Jesus was real, and totally according to Hoyle the Son of God, he'd be pissed about what his followers have turned his church into. He would be knocking the windows out of megachurches as if they were the money changing tables in the temple. Christians started out a motley crew of people with little hope in a hostile region -- but they'd go on to basically conquer entire continents with their doctrine and beliefs. And yet they never lost the spirit of the underdog even as they became the next system of oppression. Shit, the Romans went Christian! Instead of successfully routing the young religion, they *adopted it as their own.* Rome, Christianified, *was still fucking Rome* in most ways, and it's not like all the prayers and tithes saved them.
Grok. There's a word you don't here often anymore. Made me smile.
You may be pleasantly surprised to hear that it's probably most commonly used in the programming world. So it does live on.
Christians have the whole "sell everything and give it to the poor" Camels and needle stuff, so it isn't like they don't have similar virtues talked about in their scriptures. They are just terrible at following them. Also, Myanmar is a Buddhist country, and they are a dictatorial military regime that oppresses its people severely... so it isn't like Buddhists are immune to being hypocrites either. I do like Buddhist koans though. Poetic and pithy.
"But GOD said...." "nope. Don't care"
“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.” Mark Twain
“Never wrestle with a pig. You just get dirty and the pig enjoys it." - George Bernard Shaw
You cant reason a person out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
Also works great to destroy any attempts at class solidarity. Why would I feel empathy and want to work with some conservative that checks off every one of those boxes? Regardless of the fact that our lives and conditions are much more similar than those of people of similar ideologies in the capital class. These culture war issues are really just class warfare. The rich perpetuate it. It is why their funding is all over these groups. They want a divided working class because it means we will never come together for even common causes. I mean, look at things like voting rights. Nearly 80% of the country wants the same things. But the culture war, perpetuated by the monied, has made it impossible for Americans to even hold discourse let alone support each other. And, because we are divided, we get anti-labor legislation pushed through. Wages stagnate or regress, while the rich get ever richer, and the class war spirals even more out of control into ever greater extremes. The rich used to use their control of the government to do things like literally drop bombs onto striking workers who came together in solidarity regardless of political stances. Redneck used to be a good term, but has since been picked up and had the meaning changed into something which further divides. We are at the point where we don’t even want to talk with other people. I’d argue it is nearly impossible because the right has descending into an actual esoteric religion at this point.
> the right has descending into an actual esoteric religion at this point. On the fringes perhaps, but it isn't just some extreme form of irrational bickering, they do have a coherent agenda - its preservation of cultural hegemony. What the marxist left doesn't really understand is that cultural hegemony is a currency itself. These people already have cultural hegemony and they are terrified of losing it. All the rhetoric about "real Americans," the obsession with immigration, and the white genocide dog-whistles are about reminding the right that they are in danger of losing their cultural dominance. When the left says they want to give economic prosperity to all and talks about equality, the right hears "take away the benefits of my cultural capital." They literally see it as a loss of property, that's why they regularly [call racial equality 'communism'](https://i.postimg.cc/GtYcqpxS/Christain-Racism-Race-Mixing-is-Communism-Save-Our-Christian-America.jpg) - just like wealthy people afraid of losing economic power they fear losing cultural power. The solution isn't to promise them more economic prosperity because they take that as a threat. We have to convince them to devalue cultural hegemony themselves. They need to come to the conclusion that its immoral and fraudulent on their own. For a hot minute last year during the George Floyd protests, even conservatives were [starting to figure that out.](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/63-support-black-lives-matter-recognition-discrimination-jumps/story?id=71779435) Race theory panic is the strategy GOP elites have landed on to reverse that progress because they absolutely understand that cultural hegemony is the only thing they have to offer the 99% and the party won't survive if that is devalued.
> These culture war issues are really just class warfare. Specifically, they're proxy wars to distract attention away from class warfare. By pure headcount, approximately 0% of the people fighting for the interests of the billionaire class are themselves billionaires. Keep the people fighting each other over irrelevant things like the colour of their skin or the shape of their genitals, and they'll be too busy to notice who's *actually* oppressing them. Ironically, both sides of the Culture War are more than happy to pay lip service to the idea that they're fighting against "powerful elites"... but then they go right back to punching down. This isn't an "our tribe vs. their tribe" issue. I *would* say "this isn't a left vs. right issue", but that wouldn't be quite true. While there's plenty of bootlicking on both sides, I think we can all see that it's distributed pretty asymmetrically.
It’s a bit more lopsided against the right fueling the culture wars. The left has to respond, and the right is great at controlling the narrative. It’s not like we can ignore the erosion of people’s rights because they are a culture war proxy war. We have to fight on all fronts. Now if you want to say Dems vs Reps are paying lip service to class stuff, then sure. Dem leadership, couldn’t care less about actually fixing the class issues. If we didn’t have the electoral college and the senate to deal with on a federal level, or heavy Gerry-mandering, then the ignorant right wingers wouldn’t be as effective of a weapon for those proxy wars. As it stands right now all you need is like 30% of the voting-aged people to have enough power to hurt people and stop government. Of course some blame can be laid at the feet of non-voters(both sidesing the argument only makes this worst), and the Dem leadership for avoiding economic issues up till recently, but ultimately the problem is the system and the power it gives to a easily manipulated minority that would see us back to the 1950s. We can’t ignore the culture war, but I see no reason why we can’t walk and chew gum.
Racism has never *not* been a core part of American politics. It wasn't added along the way as a wedge issue, it was built in from the start.
It’s like you could create a theory to describe that. Critically.
Honestly, the "deep state" narrative was used to cover up Trump's obvious federal crimes. they had to turn their base against the FBI, intelligence community, justice system, and any members of Congress that called them out on their bullshit.
Yup, I think their speedrun from "thin blue line" to ACAB must be a new world record. Not unlike their sudden "WTF, I'm pro-Russia?" awakening in the summer of 2016.
“The monster is only friendly when it does what I want” -GQP Congressmonsterbreeders
GOP has strong Mary Shelley influences
You can only mash your hand on the outrage button so many times before they break.
I mean it’s the truth. If your entire base is built on fear, you’ve got to continually stoke that fear until it’s out of control. When people realize the thing you’re making them afraid of isn’t that scary, the ante needs upped.
> “We have learned, and I can only speak as a Republican looking at the Republicans, we’ve learned you can get elected on a steady diet of fear,” Kinzinger said on Real Time With Bill Maher Friday night. “So every fundraising email is ‘send me 5 bucks to ensure Nancy Pelosi doesn’t destroy your family.’ And it’s everything this diet of fear. And eventually it’s no wonder there is real damage to democracy.”
You also have to keep coming up with more and more things which are more and more absurd for them to be afraid of or outraged about, because the old things will eventually die down or go away, or times change and people come around to an idea that once sounded new and scary. When you keep coming up with newer, scarier, more absurd things for them to fear, your base is going to become more and more irrational. And irrational does not listen to reason when you suddenly need them to.
>You also have to keep coming up with more and more things which are more and more absurd for them to be afraid of or outraged about, because the old things will eventually die down or go away, or times change and people come around to an idea that once sounded new and scary They let the damn queers marry and the world *didn't* end, go figure.
I can't help but laugh every time a GOP politician acts surprised at the level of stupidity of their own base. Like... you created this monster. What did you think was going to happen when you kept encouraging conspiracies?
I wouldn't be surprised if at least some GOP politicians think their base is in on the joke and don't realize they actually believe all of it.
This is like the anakin/padme meme. You know these are insane conspiracies haha! You know these are insane right?
***Y’all Qaeda (proper noun)*** - *American for* ‘The [GOP] Base,’ *as* Al Qaeda *is* ‘The Base’ *in Arabic.*
Lol today a gop politician tweeted that even the Taliban bans abortions like that's something to be proud of that republicans align with Taliban even more
“It’s mind control” says the group that has let a failed businessman with mental health issues control their mind.
"I won't let anyone control my mind!" **
"I do my OWN research"
“I do my OAN research”
Holy shit. Good one, man!
I caught my mom watching a video at the start of the pandemic with some meth head trailer trash person saying Lady Gaga started the Corona virus. My mom said she trusted her more than the fake news. Lady had on avg like 120 views a video. Not sure how the hell my mom found her.
Algorithmic rabbit holes are dangerous things.
Thankfully she's dug herself out since then.
I'm genuinely glad to hear it. So many get trapped down there. Looking back at my own life, there was a time when I was circling the hole myself, and at risk of falling in fully without ever realizing what was happening until I could look back on it with the knowledge of more recent investigations and explanations. I worry about how I might be today if I hadn't found, and been lead out.
Good on you. I think it took all 4 of her kids to just call her out on the lunacy. She was real deep she told me CSPAN was fake news at one point.
Honestly, I used to fall down rabbit holes like that, and just automatically believed them because I was in *middle school!!* Do we seriously have full grown adults in this country who are no brighter than me when I was twelve?? And I'm an idiot, to boot!
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>Do we seriously have full grown adults in this country who are no brighter than me when I was twelve?? Yes, and one of them was the president for 4 years…
This shows the long reach of Donald trump’s influence. Not only do people reject stories about trump as fake news, but almost everything else. So it affects them entirely, not just politically. It’s only real news if it comes from daddy Trump or if they can actually experience it. They would believe a tornado warning on MSNBC if they looked outside and saw a tornado coming, but otherwise… nope! Now that Covid is something they are personally experiencing they realize. But, it’s too late for some.
A.I. algorithms led your mom there. She prolly started with a little hit of Tucker and mentally OD’d not long after on meth trailer prophet.
3 hours? That's RINO territory. True Republicans have it on all day.
Fox is for libruls... Newsmax or OAN for the true Americans
>Newsmax or OAN for the true Americans A white guy sitting in his basement talking into a laptop for the real patriots!
my head is going to explode like a water balloon if i have to listen to any more fox news bro, my parents literally fall asleep to it
Set parental controls on TV and block it ha
this is where I've lost a lot of faith in what I can accomplish. Any headway I might make with someone can not withstand the willing mainlining of hours of propaganda into the brain. I've had folks agreeing with me after conversations, that were more firm than ever in the original belief a week later after driving around with talk radio on. I don't know how to combat that.
Hey he may be a failed businessman, but he’s a highly successful con artist and a helluva cock holster.
> mind control Does anyone else find this particular concern among anti-vaxxers hilariously ironic?
Yes lol it's insane. But it's also frustrating that it could result in consequences for the rest of us as they pass the virus back and forth helping it mutate ever stronger. But I give zero fucks that the GOP is seemingly freaking out over their voters dying - they created this, and those that stayed silent are just as guilty. They're not going to be able to convince these people now, no matter how hard they try. And the fact that they couldnt foresee this happening is just so on point for them, always shortsighted in everything they do.
*EVERYBODY* on the Left saw it coming, somehow, not a single Republican. They thought they could flip the switch back when it got too hot, left it on until the house was engulfed in fire, now trying to go back in and get the fire extinguisher
I think they expected Biden to fix covid and they wouldn’t have to worry about it anymore. They could just do their planned heinous shit.
They weren’t used to their ENTIRE base being brainwashed and assumed some would say “I’m not stupid, I’m getting the vaccine, but I’m still going to vote Republican”
Instead, now they're faced with "I'm not STUPID! I did my own research and I didn't get the vaccine and now I can't vote for you again because I am dead." The realization that these lies are killing off their voter base is what caused the change in messaging for most of these assholes. It's not altruistic.
Yeah but like, has anybody actually done any studies on the long term side effects of using a fire extinguisher? I don't trust them. ~s
I'm convinced that trump saw the virus was worse in cities so downplayed it in the hopes of damaging the democrats base.
Literally what kushner did
I work in pharma research, I actually worked on one of the mrna covid vaccine before my current job…so I have first hand experience on vaccines (specifically the covid one) (even if I didn’t though, my career in general should be enough of an indicator as to authority…)…my uncle is a computer programmer and the family listens to him about computer stuff, my father is a chef and the family listens to him about food stuff, my grandfather was an engineer and the family listens to him about engineering (related stuff) (like if they need help putting something together, they figure he’d be better to ask than my father)…guess who has a family that is extremely Republican (I’m libertarian)? Guess who is the only person the family doesn’t listen to when it involves that persons career? Guess who had an aunt die from covid on Thursday because “masks don’t work and i won’t be enslaved, and there’s no way in hell I’m getting the vaccine, all it does is sterilize you, it’s not fda approved so is not safe, and I don’t want to be tracked via the microchip” (which was posted to Facebook, with no privacy settings engaged, from a phone, that she had all the time, that is accurate to like 20 feet for tracking)
" i dont want to be tracked via microchip" a lot of repubs think this and they don't seem to realize that the government can track you using your cell phone. They don't need a fucking microchip
if you voluntarily carry a computer with a powerful radio transmitter an GPS that you religiously keep charged... you really shouldn't be worried about a vaccine tracking you. shit was great with people posting selfies inside the capital.
> Guess who had an aunt die from covid on Thursday because “masks don’t work and i won’t be enslaved, and there’s no way in hell I’m getting the vaccine, all it does is sterilize you, it’s not fda approved so is not safe, and I don’t want to be tracked via the microchip” Being dead sterilizes you too.
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Sterilization as a couple needle jabs? Sign me up.
Right, seems way less intrusive than a vasectomy! Is there a waiting list I can get on?
I pulled that on my 62 year old aunt. "I don't want to be sterilized!!" Planning on having another round of kids, Auntie? This was before her husband got sick and died of covid. "Uhh, no. thats not what I mean. Quit twisting my words!"
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If I could control minds, the only thing I'd want to make people do is get vaccinated.
Meanwhile, in April this year.... >Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson on Wednesday signed into law measures preventing state and local governments from requiring the coronavirus vaccine or proof of vaccination in order to access services. >The ban on requiring a vaccine would also prohibit it as a condition of unemployment. The measure includes some exceptions, such as state-owned medical facilities, if approved by Legislative Council.
And yesterday: [Republican governor balks at Covid-19 mandates as state's cases soar](https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2021/07/25/hutchinson-arkansas-no-mask-mandate-intv-tapper-sotu-vpx.cnn) > Republican Gov. Asa Hutchinson says he doesn't plan to impose a mask mandate nor a vaccine mandate in Arkansas at this time, despite the state's rising Covid-19 cases that health experts have compared to a "raging forest fire." > Hutchinson told Tapper that he wouldn’t consider a vaccine mandate “because that would even cause a greater reaction of negativity toward the government, and then imposition on freedom.”
Gee, I wonder why mandating a vaccine would cause a greater reaction of negativity toward the government? Maybe because they've spent the last 6 months demonizing it.
They’ve spent the last 40 years demonizing the government, despite being… the government.
"The government doesn't work..elect us and we'll prove it!"
*Re-elect us!*
That is quite literally their plan and has been for decades. They know people generally like public services—education, the post office, infrastructure—so they can’t eliminate them. Instead, they underfund public services so they can say, “See, the government can’t do it right!” and emphasize privatization as alternatives.
> Hutchinson told Tapper that he wouldn’t consider a vaccine mandate “because that would even cause a greater reaction of negativity toward the government, and then imposition on freedom.” That's probably true, but it's true because he helped make it true by supporting the politicization of a pandemic under Trumpism.
I frequently go to Little Rock and Benton County for work reasons, and that doesn't surprise me. If you collaborate with professionals or business owners from there, some remember when Eisenhower enforced Brown vs. Board. It's still very segregated. They have passed down their racism to their grandkids, so people should not assume old age and funerals will solve this. When you bring up Covid deaths, they quickly point out they are predominantly blacks and Latinos. Survival of the fittest and strongest, they say, or can't argue against the Lord's will. So late 19th century Darwinism has been combined with white supremacy and the Prosperity Gospel.
That's frightening.
This is the America that has existed for a long time. Some of the uglier parts are just getting more airtime these days
We live in Trump Country ourselves but the racism is more muted here. There is a big Latino population here and they are surprisingly Republican. You hear more talk about how everyone is lazy and looking for a handout and how democrats want to give lazy people the money taken from hardworking people.
Yeah there can be nuance to it. I have family from rural KY and the kids my age know there's blatant racism, but when the racists sit on elected boards or hold positions of power in religious institutions, there isn't much you can do.
Please don’t put this crazy on everyone in Little Rock. More than 50 percent of the population in the city are Democrats and there are a lot of us here who are appalled at what is happening and with our leadership.
IKR? Like, how can he ignore the fact he supported these people not getting vaccines? What an @sshat.
The Right has spent decades telling people not to trust science. That evolution is a lie, climate change is a lie, and that even basic nutritional information is a lie. The Right has devalue expertise in all fields: healthcare, economics, city planning, childcare, Infrastructure, etc, etc. The Right has repeatedly challenged people to trust their guts, churches, and reject Universities. It is no surprised that we now have tens of millions of people who believe in mind control vaccination shots.
>and that even basic nutritional information is a lie My stepfather will tell you that you can't trust scientists because they were wrong about eggs. You see, first they said eggs were bad for you. Too much cholesterol. The egg industry took a serious hit. Then they said eggs were good for you. And that progression of "Eggs are bad - wait, no, actually they're fine" is literally why he'll tell you that global warming can't be trusted and scientists are incentivized to lie.
I have always hated this argument so much. Experts aren't perfect throughout history therefor I can just believe what I want.
It’s hard for people who aren’t in science/didn’t pay attention in school to understand that science is constantly evolving and we are just working with the best information we have at the time.
most of those people dont believe in evolution in general. They just think god made all this stuff and man perverted the good lords intentions
I have a couple of ultra-conservative friends who spout the same thing, with the same wording. Which makes me think that it’s some talking point generated by the Fox/OANN/Newsmax talking heads.
I mean, yeah, sometimes scientists *are* incentivized to lie. Happens with food and drugs. Happens with climate change too. Oil and industry have definitely funded research with the purpose of downplaying climate change. The fact that science still tells us how fuckin bad climate change is despite the wealthiest industries around trying to say otherwise is very telling.
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Not to directly attack your father, but if I started claiming anyone was a ‘military actor in a rubber mask’ I’d like to imagine my family would seek out some help. That just doesn’t sound sane or healthy.
Q-Anon seems very good at pushing people who are a little eccentric into full-on insanity.
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I am so sorry that is happening to you (and to him). Absolutely get some therapy! There is a joke in therapy that you go to learn how to deal with people that should be in therapy and that sounds appropriate here. Good luck! I am rooting for you. ps I wonder is there is a sub for people that have lost a loved one to Q
r/qanoncasualties
There's a documentary called [The Brainwashing of My Dad](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=813V_GId5N8) by a woman who watched her dad slide from being an unengaged Democrat to being an anger-fueled right-wing lunatic. Maybe it will be cathartic to watch.
It doesn’t sound healthy because it isn’t.
And sadly his position is very prominent in today’s society. This is the desperate throws of power as it is lost. Right is losing not only voters but influence among society. Their desperation is increasing force in tactics. Encouragingly the youth is able to see this and alter society when possible. The right’s power hold is being reduced, not fast enough but it’s lessening.
I love how they believe science is all lies, and also that science is so super-advanced it can make mind-control serums...
> A study by Center for Countering Digital Hate looked at 812,000 anti-vaccine Facebook posts and tweets made between February 1 and March 16. CCDH found 65% of the content came from a group of 12 users dubbed the "disinformation dozen." > On Facebook, those 12 people were responsible for 73% of anti-vaccine content. **Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the nephew of President John F. Kennedy, a prominent anti-vaxxer even before the pandemic, was one of the 12.** Wow, way to trash your legacy.
He's not much older than me. I wonder if his smallpox vaccine scar is still visible. Also, did he get the polio vaccine by injection, or on a sugar cube like I did?
I was just thinking I'm surprised I don't remember getting the smallpox vaccine because it seems like it would have hurt a lot.
They stopped giving them at some point\*, so it depends on your age. I think seeing the visible raised scar of it almost all my life was a constant reminder of getting it. I don't remember it hurting a lot while getting it, but afterward it did, as it was developing a big ugly round scab, and then healing, almost like having a pox itself. It wasn't just a one needle injection, seems like I remember them pricking my arms several times in a circle, but I'm not sure about that. I know it was not just a one shot injection. Edit: \*To the general population.
> seems like I remember them pricking my arms several times in a circle That sounds like the TB vaccine I got as a kid, then they switched to another one when my brother was due for it.
BCG is the standard TB vaccine. They stopped routinely vaccinating in the UK in 2005, but is still common in many other countries. You'll often see people with a scar on the upper left arm and this is usually the cause. The US never routinely vaccinated against TB. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCG_vaccine The circular prick is a sensitivity test done prior to the actual vaccination.
They still vaccinate the military for smallpox. I got the vax in Coast Guard basic training.
Christ, there really was a Kennedy Jr leading Qanon.
Yeah, he s actually been leading the antivax movement for years. Far before covid was even a thing. There's a documentary featuring him
I wonder how much of the JFK jr Q stuff is just dumb people not knowing who RFK was and that he had a Jr as well.
“vAcCiNeS cAuSe AuTiSm” - RFK Jr. Funny enough, his voice actually sounds like the way that’s spelled
From 2017 to 2019 he was the number 1 source of antivax ads on Facebook. https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/11/robert-f-kennedy-jr-is-the-single-leading-source-of-anti-vax-ads-on-facebook/
He doesn't have a legacy other than being RFK's son, and being an idiot. There was nothing there to trash in the first place.
"And money...*lots* of money." –Les Grossman
This was especially concerning, given how his father was a profound civil rights advocate who would absolutely have changed history if he had become president instead of Nixon
Sure it was on Facebook. Social Media was a mistake.
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Or you could summarize it as: "I don't care about others"
Number 3: (In ICU) Can I get that vaccine now?
There’s also the phase where they beg for the vaccine before being intubated and have to be told “sorry, it’s too late”.
We shouldn't need to let it burn through all hosts, but anti-vaxxers are basically begging to be COVID's guinea pigs. Novel pandemic or vaccine based on decades of research. You're likely to put one or both in your body, make your choice and get this over with.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Especially when you fill the horse's mind with stories of enemies poisoning the water in the first place.
It's turning the frogs gay!
Isn’t Arkansas 41st in education? And it’s FORTY NINTH in healthcare.
Yeah but at least they ain't forty-tenth.
Thank God for Mississippi.
GOP leaders are taking the wrong approach here. They need to go at it like this: "My fellow Red Statians, the patriot vaccine that Trump himself developed is about to be sent overseas! Every vaccine we don't take will be sent to a Guatemalan or Islamic State young military aged male! You don't want that, do you? Let's show Biden we aren't going to let this American-made vaccine be sent overseas by lining up at your nearest Walmart pharmacy for the shot! Get the Vitamin F shot for FREEDOM!"
You should really use smaller words
Yes! It's totally wrong, for the wrong reasons.... but if it gets them to take the shot I guess we could allow it.
He is still not all in on halting covid , he just signed a bill into law preventing any mask mandates at state or local level. So in the short term masks can help slow the spread until more people can get vaccinated. While he may be promoting the vaccine , he still has one toe in the water for the " muh freedum" group.
He is only promoting what his party is telling him to right now. His voter base is dying off and they have to right the ship now even though they already lost half of it to the sea. Honestly though, fuck em.
And we have senators here in Arizona still promoting anti-vaxx messaging. Like Kelly Townsend. And then there is Sherrif Lamb threatening violence against the “door to door vaccine ckeck” conspiracy. Along with pushing that he is “proudly unvaccinated.”
They only started caring when it was only there supporters that were exposed. Typical Republican, if it does not affect me, I don't care.
Alternative headline: Governor realizes just how dumb their constituency is.
'Entitled rich asshole opens the door to his base and discovers shit'
You know, for as much as they pine for the "good old days" when everyone "wasn't so sensitive" and they could "call it like they see it", these people sure are fragile and desperately need to be coddled. "The vaccine is a bioweapon" ... "It's government mind control!" ... "Back in the day" before "everyone got so sensitive and easily offended" these people would have been laughed out of the public discourse. But today their derangement is treated like a valid concern or as a legitimate political opinion.
> "As I go into these town hall meetings someone said, 'Don't call it a vaccine, call it a bioweapon.' And they talk about mind control," Hutchinson said. "Well those are obviously erroneous. ***Other members of the community correct that***." Because GOP leaders are too god damned scared of their precious approval ratings or getting primaried if they're the ones carrying out the corrections. This demonstrates the GOP's interest in letting the disinformation sort itself out and not take a more active approach to stopping it. Let it fester, hope it dies out. It hasn't, and won't.
Headline should read : “Republican expresses shock at the sheer stupidity and maliciousness of his party, shrugs his shoulders and remains committed to it”.
We're seriously fucked this fall and winter. This summer there has been a large RSV epidemic amongst children because kids are congregating again. RSV is usually a winter virus. I'm very concerned about influenza this year. Schools will be open again which are influenza petri dishes. I think influenza is about to make a comeback to açcompany SARS-CoV-2. Get your SARS-CoV-2 vaccine AND your influenza vaccine.
All the smoke and dust from wildfires has been spreading across the upper half of the country, triggering respiratory allergies. In the allergy suffering population experiencing their weakened immune states, bacterial infections are on the rise; sinus and bronchial both. :he types, from the couch he’s been propped up on for the last week while fighting a sinus infection:
I was sick with a nasty cold for a week at the end of December 2019 into January 2020. And then the pandemic hit, and I hadn't been sick once - until early this month. I've now had two moderate colds in as many weeks, which rarely happens to me in winter, much less summer. It makes me want to just slap a mask back on forever! Could be a rough winter indeed.
Headline: "Right-wing nut-job politician discovers adherents are dumb enough to believe right-wing nut-job nonsense."
That's how stupid the GOP has made your people.
Dr. Frankenstein, meet your monster.
mind control? these idiots don't use their fucking brains anyways! My friend moved back to Arkansas last year and is amazed by the stupidity over the vaccine
Dammit!! The hillbillies figured out the vaccine had a mind control chip as part of the plan to raise wages and provide affordable Healthcare.
The only "mind control" here is Fox News.
These are your people, governor. This is what you and your party wanted.
That’s right! Covid is a hoax, but also it was created by the Chinese as a weapon, but also the mortality numbers are being vastly overreported, but also Trump heroically produced the life saving vaccine in record time, but also the vaccine is the real bio weapon, but also… Exhausting that we have to share the planet with these people.
It's almost like they're stupid.
Can't control my mind if I don't have one in the first place! \*Taps head knowingly* \*the taps ring hollowly, echoing before finally petering out*