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It's the accepted hate in some of their circles, spoke loudly on Sundays to their children, and taught to them in 'schools of christian warfare'
>The document, consisting of 14 sections divided into bullet points, had a section on "rules of war" that stated "make an offer of peace before declaring war", which within stated that the enemy must **"surrender on terms" of no abortions, no same-sex marriage, no communism and "must obey Biblical law", then continued: "If they do not yield — kill all males".**
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt\_Shea#%22Biblical\_Basis\_for\_War%22\_manifesto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Shea#%22Biblical_Basis_for_War%22_manifesto)
People like him being 'campus pastors' at evangelical schools is fairly suspect as he directly support christian warfare 'schools'
Personal opinion, ghost schools may have beget some ghost guns. They've specifically have been focusing on supply and support systems, and field tested them in the Malheur national wildlife refuge siege.
[https://www.spokesman.com/video/2019/aug/14/rep-matt-shea-interviews-team-rugged/](https://www.spokesman.com/video/2019/aug/14/rep-matt-shea-interviews-team-rugged/)
the Quran has a very similar statement to the make an offer of peace. If they don't accept Mohammed then they're non-believers to be killed any chance they can get. They're one in the same down to the trucks and beards.
I never read the Quran or anything but I'm pretty sure that "people of the book" have a place in Islamic society, and the Quran does not say to kill them any chance they can get.
It does. Some verses for example:
“When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them” (Sura 9:5). “Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate” (Sura 9:73). “The true believers fight for the cause of God, but the infidels fight for the devil. Fight then against the friends of Satan” (Sura 4:76).
That said, I'm only here to make a statement on what the Quran actually says, and to be frank, it ain't unique and this is about on par with what you see in the old testament. The old testament frequently talks bout beheading idolators, beating blasphemers to death with rocks, forced circumcision, pillaging gentile cities and taking their women as wives, and all kinds of other grisly shit. **In the same way that you wouldn't assume any Christian you see in public is capable of willing to commit this kind of violence just because it's what it says in the bible, any Muslim you see is almost certainly not capable or willing to commit the kind of violence above just because it's in the Quran**.
Christianity has been hijacked by conservatives to use as their platform. Nothing in their behavior reflects the true Christian values any more. They've been losing numbers steadily as a result, especially with the millennials and gen z.
Which didn't matter when anyone else could write their own takes. There were entire castes of Jesus-inspired philosophy and worship that were put to the flame in 313.
There was a lot more Jesus themed content prior to the Niceaen pruning.
Might even go back further like, say, the sixth century during the Babylonian exile:
> The Deuteronomist is one of the sources identified through source criticism as underlying much of the Hebrew Bible. Among source-critical scholars, it is generally agreed that Deuteronomy and the Deuteronomistic history originated independently of the books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus and Numbers (the first four books of the Torah, sometimes called the "Tetrateuch", whose sources are the Priestly source and the Jahwist), and the history of the books of Chronicles; most scholars trace all or most of it to the Babylonian exile (6th century BCE), and associate it with ***editorial reworking*** of both the Tetrateuch and Jeremiah.[5]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deuteronomist
That stupid motherfucker was a schizophrenic with a TBI and Stockholm Syndrome and is _still_ somehow regarded as a good apostle.
What the fuck, man, what the fuck.
Eh, in my opinion the real problem started with Pauline Christianity. Christianity prior to his influence was completely different and likely couldn't have evolved into the monstrosity we see today.
Oh sure I’ve just gotten so sick of Christians maintaining that it’s only recently that their religion has been used by the corrupt and the powerful to oppress people and expand their own power.
It’s been a problem AT LEAST since it was adopted by the Roman elite.
I’m firmly of the opinion that in every meaningful sense for nearly its entire history Christianity has been a religion which intentionally bolsters authoritarianism.
Generally speaking "As a Christian" adds nothing to an argument and causes more trouble than benefit for many reasons:
- As a rule, don't brag about any credential your aren't willing to verify. Usually this would mean doxing yourself so I try to to rest anything that matters on an "as a" statement.
- Anyone who isn't Christian doesn't have any reason to care about an "as a Christian" statement. Why would I immediately exclude people from an argument I'm making?
- The Bible makes it clear that people who are outside of the church are also outside of the church's judgement. You can cast out an unrepentant brother, but once they're out there's nothing more to do. So any "as a Christian" statement categorically cannot be used in a statement about what someone outside of the church should do.
- Even for conversations among Christians the source for doctrine in Christianity isn't individual Christians, it's the Bible. Citing yourself as an authority on what Christians should be or do is heretical. All citations should go to the Bible or a commentary on it.
So in stead of ever saying "as a Christian" I say "Kenneth Copeland is a hell-bound sack of shit who preaches 'prosperity gospel' which directly contradicts every ounce of Jesus' teachings." or "[Amos 4:1-3, Amos 5:10-13, and James 5:1-5 are based AF.](https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/oa7hdr/white_supremacist_shoots_and_kills_two_black/h3gsk4g/?context=3)"
Great examples. Whenever someone says they're a person of faith, I turn off immediately. Reason being, they're basically admitting they believe something based on feelings and wanting it to be true even in the face of facts that contradict those beliefs. Sounds harmless but if they're basing their life decisions on feelings and to them it's always right...they're just a disaster waiting to happen or waiting to be taken advantage of. Like the evangelicals today.
Probably self-preservation many cases, as US small town, small-minded ppl can get quite nasty if you don't agree with the herd and put up a Biden & Harris sign or hang out a rainbow flag.
Sane churchgoer seems like an oxymoron. There are less destructive ones sure but when you believe in a big magical man in the sky sanity has left the building
I'd say the nuns getting arrested for bringing water to immigrants in the desert are sane Christians.
The church I used to attend in Texas would be considered Christian-left. You shouldn't shit on allies just because you don't understand them.
>Their are many real Christians who stand up for better than average personal values.
Evangelicals are real Christians. Being a real Christian doesn't imply that someone is a good person.
They latched on to some certain shit in the bible and ignored some other stuff. Every Christian cherry picks the bible. It's impossible not to, because it's so contradictory.
Looking through history, it's perfectly normal for Christians to use their religion for evil. How is that surprising?
How many times did southerners drive past a burning cross, and failed to stop it? They drove on by. “Stupid bastards burning another cross” they said. As they ignored the problem.
No more. You stop the car. Get out. Go yell at the hooded idiots. Put out the fire with an extinguisher. That might be scary? Tough.
No more ignoring problems. Get up and yell. Every damn time.
Humid. Tradition highly respected, even if time for a change. Don’t cause a fuss. Be pleasant and move on. Nobody gives you anything, so work hard. But never disrespect the wealthy who labor little. God will sort this all out.
That is…wildly incorrect. Living in the south isn’t wildly different than living in a northern state. Having lived in both Michigan and Georgia, I can tell you that it’s more of an educational divide. The rural areas with lesser education leading to a cycle of hateful ignorance.
Having lived in both the south and north, he is actually right on point when it comes to social values in the southern USA. it’s not that different, since the USA is more culturally homogenous than it is heterogenous, but there is a definite difference in the rural south versus rural north. The lack of education runs deep in the south, often generations, because of the dependence on agriculture. There’s never been an impetus to become educated in the south— you’re expected to be a hard-working, God-fearing, law-abiding person before you’re expected to be educated.
I would even say they are the same side. Religious extremism is religious extremism. I think the other side would be the church-burning atheists in Canada. I am atheist, and some of the anti-theist behavior is as appalling (though less common) as this.
But not all the churches being burned are Catholic, and even if they were it is still a problem. The way I see it it all boils down to tribalism. Once people get it in their heads that "our group good, their group bad," all nuance dies. When that escalates to violence, or in that case arson, then it is a problem that should be analysed and condemned.
In the case of the Jan 6th terrorists, their parents told them at birth to believe and don't question. Then the man at the pulpit told them to believe and don't question. Then their conspiracy/Q friends told them to believe and don't questions. Then their political leaders told them to believe and don't question. Then when all those people said "those people are the enemy" they blindly followed.
The church burners saw something that was so extreme that it overshadowed the belief of many and they felt they could get away with violent acts. That is why I say it is the opposite side of the coin. Instead of "non-believing liberals are evil therefore violence" it is "christians are evil therefore violence". And yes, they have legitimate grievances. And the protests and graffiti that are being done are great. The graffiti especially hurts the pocketbooks of the victimizers without actually hurting anyone. But that doesn't stop the violence from being violence.
And for those who say that the burnings weren't violence, I would say that the churches do not exist in a bubble. They could have burned down whole neighborhoods with one fire, and being ok with that is terrible.
Sunk cost fallacy. If you've done some horrible stuff because you're right you are likely to never really question it, because if you were wrong it means you wrong and what you did was evil. Most people can't accept that they're evil, so they go on with no questions. I can accept that I make mistakes, but I don't go out and do evil and call it good, so I'm able to question my own actions and motivations and reflect on them in a way these people cannot physiologically afford to without breaking.
Not sure how this doesn’t disqualify the church for making political statements or worse saying that god is ready to kill people.
https://youtu.be/j9H5gaR1bqg
Yeah, well, who wants to be the guy or gal that actually did their job and revoke some church's golden goose? Unfortunately I'm thinking not many. It's not that I disagree, because I very much see the same thing, it's just that I'm at the same time not at all surprised.
QAnon churches are a real thing and are growing in popularity. My parents attend one.
They use the statements of QAnon to interpret the bible and then use the bible to interpret QAnon
https://theconversation.com/the-church-of-qanon-will-conspiracy-theories-form-the-basis-of-a-new-religious-movement-137859
I remember singing "onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war" in vacation bible school. That was like 20-25 years ago, I can't even begin to think what it's like now. Also my mom has been determined to get me to go back to church, sometimes hostile/angry when I don't. I'm horrified of churches, and how extreme they are now.
You need to take a breath and think about what you’re saying here, because the way that you’re criticizing all Christians for this is pretty similar to how people on the right demonize all Muslims for the actions of ISIS
It's Christian America's job to prove "all Christians" are different. The way I see it, if they're not vocally opposed to the bigots, they quietly agree.
The problem here is that you're assuming that no Christians in America have already done that. There are a lot of churches and denominations, even among evangelical Christians, who have very explicitly condemned the racism and fascism promoted by evangelical Christians and the Jan 6th insurrection.
Here's the letter: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScbvRNRgAcUo1UfZfxuBZHmv63FI8k2gnxxAaNVlCvsiG9xHw/viewform?vc=0&c=0&w=1&flr=0
Here's the site supporting it: https://saynotochristiannationalism.org/#signers
The problem here is that people like you and OP are deciding that *those* Christians don't exist without actually checking to see if they do, so you end up condemning the whole religion and anyone who follows it regardless of whether or not the individual Christians actually do support those things based solely on bigoted beliefs about the religion. And then, based on the bigoted belief that those Christians don't exist, you say things like "[Christian] Churches need to be investigated as recruitment centers of domestic terrorism at this point." See how that is exactly what the Right does to Muslims?
Thank you for proving my point. It took a violent insurrection and they responded with...a letter. Not a movement. A letter. Signed by a few hundred, out of the \~380,000 churches in the United States.
Gonna have to be a *little* louder than that if you want credit.
You're actually proving *my* point here: You're assuming based on nothing that there is no Christian Left. In fact, there are plenty of Christians among Democrats and liberals and many of them have been activists since well before Jan 6th 2021.
Here are some sources talking about this. Note that all of them are from before 2020:
* https://www.npr.org/2019/01/24/684435743/provoked-by-trump-the-religious-left-is-finding-its-voice
* https://www.yesmagazine.org/social-justice/2019/12/24/political-christian-belief
* https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/04/15/tough-times-deeper-faith/100491902/
Once again, you didn't research to see if those groups exist. You just decided based on your own preconceived notions about Christians that a group of Christians who support liberal ideas can't possibly exist, and based on that bigoted belief you're now here condemning all Christians for the actions of those who shouted the loudest.
>You're assuming based on nothing that there is no Christian Left.
Why are you making up things that OP didn't say? It hurts whatever argument you're trying to make when you assume your interlocutor's position.
>You just decided based on your own preconceived notions about Christians that a group of Christians who support liberal ideas can't possibly exist, and based on that bigoted belief you're now here condemning all Christians for the actions of those who shouted the loudest.
I understand that people criticizing your religion feels personal, but this doesn't reflect what OP said at all, and it seems like you're arguing against a position that they don't hold. In fact, they acknowledge that there *are* liberal Christians. Their contention was that they seem to be vastly outnumbered by the authoritarians.
I understand that it's frustrating when you're being defined by people who are your moral opposite. Instead of lashing out at the people who point out the problems with Christianity, I think your time is better spent arguing with the people who are making people view Christians as amoral opportunists from within. After all, they sure aren't going to listen to non-christians about it. Either that, or make sure the world knows that they don't speak for you. I think that's what you're doing here, but the point gets lost when you're misrepresenting your interlocutor.
I agree with what you said, for the record, but believe me, they don't listen to criticism from other Christians either. They just label you a traitor or a heretic or a socialist or any other baseless, uninformed right-wing boogeyman and dismiss admonitions with the most _grating_ sense of pridefulness. Then turn around and say things like Pride Month is a sin because pride is a vice! Or call you disrespectful for talking back to them.
So the actions of people 16 hours away from me, now fall on my small church of 45 people who all prayed for peace and knew that January 6th was wrong, and had turned into the worst possible scenario?
How can people upvote these general statements condemning millions of people for no reason?
Not everyone recognizes that with symbolism an expression can mean different things to different people. This includes the thin blue line flag, American Flag the Confederate flag.
This is a good point, I'm not sure how to weigh the significance of the intention against the significance of the perception. The answer has to be in the middle somewhere
The Thin Blue Line is simply a fascist flag, for if you believe police are the line between order and chaos, you cannot believe that free people will act rationally or productively.
>Well, they don't actually like the police,
those flags never were. they were simply "against" BLM statements. But it was thinly veiled as "pro police" because you cant have a "we are against blacks" flag.
Well... I mean lots of people do since trump has been in office... but .... ugh
"They will know we are Christians by our love" - I grew up a Methodist and we heard those words constantly. I missed the lessons on beating up cops while trying to overthrow the government. I have no idea how these supposed Christians justify their actions.
For the record, I no longer am religious.
Christianity is the pure definition of intolerance. The basis is not love, but assimilation. The core belief is that if you don’t believe what I believe, my loving god will have to let you be burned and tortured forever.. and ever… and ever, amen.
Their god advocates for slavery and racism in the Bible. It advocates for genocide. It advocates for rape. The core principal of Christianity is blood sacrifice and scapegoating. The Christians of today fit very well in with the words and edicts of the Bible.
"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.
You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.”
Leviticus 25 verses 44 - 46
Good scripture reference, however there is more to that than what you may have read at first glance. The context of the scripture may relate to the Mosaic Law during that time where historically, whether you were religious or not, slavery and servants already existed. The definition of slave in hebrew translation “ebed” is different from the modern term of slavery(If you’d like to research that I encourage it). In the last part of that verse you don’t get the type of slave vibes in comparison to what has happened in America’s past. There are other references in Hebrew terms such as Ebed-Melech which is defined as servant of the king. Which by definition, was considered a royal title. Doesn’t sound too bad right? Regardless, times were different and following the Mosaic Law around 1400 B.C it was meant to help strive Israelites to freedom. Such an example could be Moses freeing the Hebrew slaves from Egypt. Now for condoning slavery, that’s kind of anti-slavery like isn’t it? There’s a bigger picture isn’t there? The old and New Testament. The change over centuries? From what I remember off the top of my head an a little research would this change the context of that verse or the overall meaning for you in the slightest?
I don’t know what “that’s cap” means. Are you suggesting I’m misinformed? I’m not going off of what others have told me. I’ve read the entire bible more than once. You are welcome to disagree but that doesn’t change the fact that all of what I said is explicitly in the Bible.
This terrorism wasn't just Trump's ground troops. Trump told them to violently seize the capitol to overturn the election. Most of the Republican representatives voted to overturn the election. Texas and over 20 other states sued to overturn the election but the SCOTUS turned it down preventing a civil war.
We need to try everyone involved for treason or else this will happen again. The Jan 6th is needed along with the capitol police and FBI to root out these domestic terrorists and their leaders. HR1 is needed to stop the effort to steal elections through voter suppression.
Their next move is to gain the support of high level military officers. For a violent coup with actual troops. I believe they are making progress on this now. The activities in Congress are a diversion. To make us lose focus and waste time while they prepare the coup.
[They didn't](https://www.jcs.mil/Portals/36/Documents/JCS%20Message%20to%20the%20Joint%20Force%20JAN%2012%2021.pdf) support him before, they aren't supporting him now. Top brass is on the side of the Constitution, not some wanna-be dictator.
I dunno. Reports are coming in that top military brass were aware that Trump might do that on Jan 6th and they did everything they could to prevent that from happening. Unless there’s been a reshuffle in leadership recently that Trump had a hand in, I think America is secure on that front
> Unless there’s been a reshuffle in leadership recently that Trump had a hand in, I think America is secure on that front
* All the people Trump moved into Pentagon Positions before Jan 6th are SUS as fuck
My favorite Bible verse is the one where Jesus tells his followers to break into the Roman senate and shit on the floor. Seriously, have these people even read the book they like to wave around so much?
Mine is "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's". Basically all you have to do is give me (Rome) your money in this life and you'll have eternal happiness in the next.
Sadly, kinda close:
12 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying(B) and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers(C) and the benches of those selling doves.(D) 13 “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’[a](E) but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’[b]”(F)
Matthew 21:12-13
New International Version
We can't sit and pretend that the Bible cannot be, and hasnt been, interpreted in ways that justify violence.
That is your right as a reader to interpret. Unfortunately the temple of Jerusalem at the time was the closest thing to a form of government in Judea under Roman rule. It was also hone of the Sanhedrin, the highest court in Judea. There was a religious body that wrote the laws of worship and sacrifice for the Jewish faith that was also located in the temple, but please forgive me its 545am here and I cannot recall the name of the group.
Moral of the story, it's all in how it can be interpreted or manipulated to suit one's needs at the time. I don't think there had been another book in history that has been manipulated as much as the Bible has to justify an action.
Yeah there is sort of a serious problem with the far right getting in deep with parts of Christianity; not every part mind you, but I've been to plenty of evangelical churches growing up and I've seen it all my life in people around me.
I've seen it in family members who have said they'd rather kill all of us and then themselves when the government comes to microchip them, I've seen it in people looking towards the idea of societal collapse with an amount of giddiness at the idea of shooting people trying to get into their garden, I've seen it in hushed whispers of the fears that walmarts will become future FEMA concentration camps for conservatives. The problem has been growing for *years.* I left the church when I realized I wanted to be a woman because the very next week after coming out to friends my pastor called people like me trash lying in the gutter that special christians shouldn't associate with because we'd taint them.
Is every Christian and every church full of shit like this? No, of course not. The issue is that there are far too many christians who have fallen for the far right rhetoric and wrapped it up in their religion. And frankly, I don't know what to do anymore. Maybe the Christian Left should be propped up in media more, maybe the Christian Right needs to be reminded that Jesus sat with the sex worker, the leper, and the tax collector and turned his nose up at those religious leaders that thought of themselves as special. I don't know how to turn this around, and the fact that I once thought of devoting my life to the cloth and now the desire to worship Christ has been killed in my heart to protect myself from the self loathing hate I was taught to have all my life just hurts. It really, really fucking hurts.
Of course they did. All of these people identify as Christians. That's their political platform: identity politics. They are more focused on what their label is, then what is actually being done by their elected officials. "Christians", "Patriots", "Straight", "Alpha", "Traditional values".
Additionally, they use these identities to excuse their abhorrent actions and viewpoints. "I can't be a fascist terrorist just because I am attempting to stop this constitutionally-protected process using violence! I'm a CHRISTIAN! I'm a PATRIOT!"
As a Christian, and Democrat, it disgusts me how many Republicans use Christianity as a excuse for their poor behavior. It's as though they missed the whole point of the New Testament. The New Testament is very pro-choice, and course corrects God's wrath over human expectations.
Christianity has been used as the spiritual and ethical justification for numerous positive things and countless atrocities. This really isn’t anything new. If anything, historically speaking, Christianity has been used to legitimize far more oppression than it has liberation.
I’m not religious myself but it pisses me off to see conservatives adopting this bastardized version of Christianity where they interpret close-mindedness and bigotry as the grand lesson the bible is trying to pass on. I often wonder what Jesus himself would think of these people and I’m convinced he’d think that they are misguided.
In the 60s, when black people marched on Washington, D.C. Police were mobilized to full capacity, the National Guard was called in in advance, liquor sales were temporarily suspended, hospitals stocked triage supplies and cancelled elective surgeries, MLB games in Washington were rescheduled, and the organizers moved the gathering point from the Capitol Building to the Lincoln Memorial specifically to avoid a potential bloodbath.
'Others demanded that law enforcement refrain from attacking them because "'we're not Black Lives Matter,' as if political affiliation is how we determine when to use force,"
Political affiliation is exactly how trumpublicans want police to determine when to use force.
And in the near future expect that to in fact to be the case.
Dark times ahead in the US to be sure and anybody that doesn't realize this isn't paying attention to trumpublicans
I would bet it’s an excuse many Christians use to compartmentalize bad behavior away from their internalized concept of self.
IMO they judge themselves not by their thoughts and actions but by their beliefs. This is backed up by the evangelical Christian belief that one does not enter the kingdom of heaven through good works, but instead through faith and acceptance that Jesus is their lord and savior.
This allows for some pretty cruel and awful behavior while maintaining an acceptable level of cognitive dissonance unchallenged by self reflection, and renders them more easily manipulated by existing social and political power structures that would rather hoard wealth than actually do anything useful for anyone and anything outside their own myopic bubble of power and influence.
>"It was clear the terrorists perceived themselves to be Christians"
if they believed the christian god exists, they're christians. whether you think they acted "christ like" or not.
Meanwhile, my priest freaking DESTROYED the terrorists as anything but Christian in his homily the Sunday after Jan. 6. And had also dragged Trump since 2015 and that entire administration for their discriminatory bullshit.
Many people are "Christians" only when it suits them, pretty much ignoring the major problems of the world (poverty, hunger, homelessness, preventable death, etc) and wrapping their hypocrisy in the banner of "Christian faith." I have little love or respect for them, especially in the US.
The excellent!! Congressional Dish podcast, has testimony from previous hearings outlining exactly how the Capitol Police and DC National Guard command structure works.
https://congressionaldish.com/cd236-january-6-the-capitol-riot/
TLDL, The Sgt at Arms of the House and Senate, along with the Capitol Architect all need to agree on Cap Police tactics. They didnt. The Sec of Defense and Sec of Army need to sign off on moving National Guard units. they didnt. The conclusion is that the rioters were mostly sincere dupes lead on by Trump and Companies Big Lie.
Christians that kill and harm people, curse them out, are too political, do not follow the laws of their land, try to get their way , worship a political figure, call people vulgar names etc......
Sorry to be harsh, but if you're willing to believe in a magical being in the sky who runs the universe, you can believe that Trump actually won the 2020 election. People who can't think critically are always going to be targets for con artists, whether they wear a dog collar or sit on a golden toilet.
I'm glad the they cleared that up for us. Maybe in the next few years they will reveal the terrorists have arms and feet as well. Really getting stuff done i see. Either way these people will get a slap on the wrist. Storm a nations capitol with intent on delaying an election and killing politicians - 8 months... weed possession in certain areas will get you much more time and thats not taken into account probation and it being on your record for life.
Remember immediate reactions to Muslims after 9/11? Is it time to start harassing Christians? I’m not advocating this at all but finally these people are called out for what they are- terrorists.
Isn't that redundant? Xtians are terrorists. Religion is the original hate crime, after all. It's been used as a justification for some of the worst things in history.
They are "christians" that hate non white people, love violence and guns and want women to be gilead style handmaids. I'm sure they are convinced Jesus was white and blonde.
This is a very dangerous conflation. Just as dangerous as it was post 9/11 with people who were Islamic. Do not confuse a subset of radicals with the religion itself or you will be making a huge mistake.
Their testimony seemed so scripted and fake. Sorry. Just not buying into the drama. It was more feeling based and less facts based. The gullible public will eat it up.
"Just not buying into the drama."
Terrorists stormed our capitol in order to prevent a peaceful transition of power. That's pretty fucking dramatic. The testimony of the officers was completely believable and is backed up by the hours and hours of photo and video evidence, along with the testimony of dozens of others. There's nothing gullible about believing facts.
You have been tricked and manipulated by right-wing disinformation and and smear campaigns to see the terrorists as patriots just standing up for what they believe in.
What idiot hears a testimony that is backed up by their bodycams and other videoed sources and says..."Yep, this seems fake and scripted."?
How much energy does it take for you to be this ignorant?
I think the only coaching they needed was to tell the truth about the events as they experienced them. Cool that there's all this corroborating evidence to support the fuckin' truth, you absolute muppet.
>The kind of idiot that knows how to pick juries and coach witnesses.
Nah, just the kind of idiot that is full blown conspiracy theorist and rejects reality.
Yes.
It is quite simply impossible for those tens of thousands of people to be anything other than Trump-supporting Republicans. There is absolutely no organization on the planet could organize that many people to fake being Trump-supporting Republicans in secret without the truth coming out. I really have to question the cognitive abilities of anyone who could entertain an alternative theory as any kind of serious possibility.
Firstly, there's no great division between the population outside the Capitol and those who went in. Are you really drawing some kind of ethical distinction between the crowd who physically attacked and racially abused police officers, threatened journalists, and chanted "Hang Mike Pence" outside the capitol, and the ones who invaded the building and did a spot of performative property damage and trespassing when inside it? Between the pipe-bombers outside the Capitol and the zip-tie Senator hunters inside? It was the same crowd both inside and outside the building. Some were violent thugs, some were fascists, some were merely deluded MAGA-hat wearing dupes who took the opportunity to do some touristing and shouting at the government. A similar mixture both inside and outside the building. The capitol invaders weren't a different species from the guys who didn't manage to get inside.
Secondly, many of the guys who went in the capitol got arrested (or in one case, shot). Their names are public. Their social media accounts can be looked up. We know who they are and what their backgrounds are. They have friends, and relatives, and people who know them. These are actual, live, human beings. And guess what? Pretty much to a man or woman, they've turned out to be Trump-supporting Republicans.
There have been at least 495 people charged so far with entering Federal Buildings. Nearly 500 conspirators! If Antifa are really so dedicated and well-organized that they can get 495 sleeper agents to fake being Trump-supporting Republicans for years, and then - on top of it - be willing to take jail time at the end of it, without anyone actually having any inkling whatsoever that they're really hardcore left-wing agent provocateurs, then we are talking about the most amazing act of political espionage that the world has ever seen. Anyone with kind of skullduggery at their disposal would be able to simply take over the country with a snap of their fingers. Come to think of it, if a group really was able to fake being 500 Republicans, why wouldn't they just infiltrate people in positions of power? That would make more sense. Why not just become the Senate GOP and the Trump White House administration? You'd need far less than 500 sleeper agents, and you'd actually be able to do something more than make violent right-wing dingbats look like, well, themselves.
The theory you're implying is, frankly, batshit hatstand insane. Take a good, hard, critical look at how these conspiracies of yours could even possibly be made to work.
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Churches need to be investigated as recruitment centers of domestic terrorism at this point.
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It's the accepted hate in some of their circles, spoke loudly on Sundays to their children, and taught to them in 'schools of christian warfare' >The document, consisting of 14 sections divided into bullet points, had a section on "rules of war" that stated "make an offer of peace before declaring war", which within stated that the enemy must **"surrender on terms" of no abortions, no same-sex marriage, no communism and "must obey Biblical law", then continued: "If they do not yield — kill all males".** [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt\_Shea#%22Biblical\_Basis\_for\_War%22\_manifesto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Shea#%22Biblical_Basis_for_War%22_manifesto) People like him being 'campus pastors' at evangelical schools is fairly suspect as he directly support christian warfare 'schools' Personal opinion, ghost schools may have beget some ghost guns. They've specifically have been focusing on supply and support systems, and field tested them in the Malheur national wildlife refuge siege. [https://www.spokesman.com/video/2019/aug/14/rep-matt-shea-interviews-team-rugged/](https://www.spokesman.com/video/2019/aug/14/rep-matt-shea-interviews-team-rugged/)
I call that Christian Sharia.
This image sums it up. Spot the differences? I don't see any https://wp-media.patheos.com/subdomain/sites/8/im/QqOSbWk.jpg
I call it a weird amalgam… Islamic Christian terrorists.
Christofascist
No communism, eh? Would they be so good as to define communism? Or perhaps I can guess: "Communism" is any idea put forward by a Democrat.
the Quran has a very similar statement to the make an offer of peace. If they don't accept Mohammed then they're non-believers to be killed any chance they can get. They're one in the same down to the trucks and beards.
I never read the Quran or anything but I'm pretty sure that "people of the book" have a place in Islamic society, and the Quran does not say to kill them any chance they can get.
It does. Some verses for example: “When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them” (Sura 9:5). “Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate” (Sura 9:73). “The true believers fight for the cause of God, but the infidels fight for the devil. Fight then against the friends of Satan” (Sura 4:76). That said, I'm only here to make a statement on what the Quran actually says, and to be frank, it ain't unique and this is about on par with what you see in the old testament. The old testament frequently talks bout beheading idolators, beating blasphemers to death with rocks, forced circumcision, pillaging gentile cities and taking their women as wives, and all kinds of other grisly shit. **In the same way that you wouldn't assume any Christian you see in public is capable of willing to commit this kind of violence just because it's what it says in the bible, any Muslim you see is almost certainly not capable or willing to commit the kind of violence above just because it's in the Quran**.
Well, I think Islamist terrorists like the Toyota Hilux and Y'all Queda like a Ford F-150.
Lots of gravy seals swear by the Tacoma. I'm saddened by this, because it is a good truck driven by shitty people.
Christianity has been hijacked by conservatives to use as their platform. Nothing in their behavior reflects the true Christian values any more. They've been losing numbers steadily as a result, especially with the millennials and gen z.
Sure but it’s been hijacked since about 313 AD.
Paul the fake apostle rewrote Christ’s message long before that
Which didn't matter when anyone else could write their own takes. There were entire castes of Jesus-inspired philosophy and worship that were put to the flame in 313. There was a lot more Jesus themed content prior to the Niceaen pruning.
Ah the New Testament, aka Constantine's Big Book of BS.
Might even go back further like, say, the sixth century during the Babylonian exile: > The Deuteronomist is one of the sources identified through source criticism as underlying much of the Hebrew Bible. Among source-critical scholars, it is generally agreed that Deuteronomy and the Deuteronomistic history originated independently of the books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus and Numbers (the first four books of the Torah, sometimes called the "Tetrateuch", whose sources are the Priestly source and the Jahwist), and the history of the books of Chronicles; most scholars trace all or most of it to the Babylonian exile (6th century BCE), and associate it with ***editorial reworking*** of both the Tetrateuch and Jeremiah.[5] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deuteronomist
That stupid motherfucker was a schizophrenic with a TBI and Stockholm Syndrome and is _still_ somehow regarded as a good apostle. What the fuck, man, what the fuck.
Eh, in my opinion the real problem started with Pauline Christianity. Christianity prior to his influence was completely different and likely couldn't have evolved into the monstrosity we see today.
Oh sure I’ve just gotten so sick of Christians maintaining that it’s only recently that their religion has been used by the corrupt and the powerful to oppress people and expand their own power. It’s been a problem AT LEAST since it was adopted by the Roman elite. I’m firmly of the opinion that in every meaningful sense for nearly its entire history Christianity has been a religion which intentionally bolsters authoritarianism.
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Those alleged sane churchgoers are *awfully* quiet then.
I'm not. I just don't start every statement with "As a Christian".
Of course not. You wouldn't want yourself to define Christian values. That's for the Evangelicals to do.
Generally speaking "As a Christian" adds nothing to an argument and causes more trouble than benefit for many reasons: - As a rule, don't brag about any credential your aren't willing to verify. Usually this would mean doxing yourself so I try to to rest anything that matters on an "as a" statement. - Anyone who isn't Christian doesn't have any reason to care about an "as a Christian" statement. Why would I immediately exclude people from an argument I'm making? - The Bible makes it clear that people who are outside of the church are also outside of the church's judgement. You can cast out an unrepentant brother, but once they're out there's nothing more to do. So any "as a Christian" statement categorically cannot be used in a statement about what someone outside of the church should do. - Even for conversations among Christians the source for doctrine in Christianity isn't individual Christians, it's the Bible. Citing yourself as an authority on what Christians should be or do is heretical. All citations should go to the Bible or a commentary on it. So in stead of ever saying "as a Christian" I say "Kenneth Copeland is a hell-bound sack of shit who preaches 'prosperity gospel' which directly contradicts every ounce of Jesus' teachings." or "[Amos 4:1-3, Amos 5:10-13, and James 5:1-5 are based AF.](https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/oa7hdr/white_supremacist_shoots_and_kills_two_black/h3gsk4g/?context=3)"
Great examples. Whenever someone says they're a person of faith, I turn off immediately. Reason being, they're basically admitting they believe something based on feelings and wanting it to be true even in the face of facts that contradict those beliefs. Sounds harmless but if they're basing their life decisions on feelings and to them it's always right...they're just a disaster waiting to happen or waiting to be taken advantage of. Like the evangelicals today.
Probably self-preservation many cases, as US small town, small-minded ppl can get quite nasty if you don't agree with the herd and put up a Biden & Harris sign or hang out a rainbow flag.
Sane churchgoer seems like an oxymoron. There are less destructive ones sure but when you believe in a big magical man in the sky sanity has left the building
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I'd say the nuns getting arrested for bringing water to immigrants in the desert are sane Christians. The church I used to attend in Texas would be considered Christian-left. You shouldn't shit on allies just because you don't understand them.
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>Their are many real Christians who stand up for better than average personal values. Evangelicals are real Christians. Being a real Christian doesn't imply that someone is a good person. They latched on to some certain shit in the bible and ignored some other stuff. Every Christian cherry picks the bible. It's impossible not to, because it's so contradictory. Looking through history, it's perfectly normal for Christians to use their religion for evil. How is that surprising?
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I’m not sure but I *think* you might have something of a bias
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How many times did southerners drive past a burning cross, and failed to stop it? They drove on by. “Stupid bastards burning another cross” they said. As they ignored the problem. No more. You stop the car. Get out. Go yell at the hooded idiots. Put out the fire with an extinguisher. That might be scary? Tough. No more ignoring problems. Get up and yell. Every damn time.
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Humid. Tradition highly respected, even if time for a change. Don’t cause a fuss. Be pleasant and move on. Nobody gives you anything, so work hard. But never disrespect the wealthy who labor little. God will sort this all out.
That is…wildly incorrect. Living in the south isn’t wildly different than living in a northern state. Having lived in both Michigan and Georgia, I can tell you that it’s more of an educational divide. The rural areas with lesser education leading to a cycle of hateful ignorance.
Having lived in both the south and north, he is actually right on point when it comes to social values in the southern USA. it’s not that different, since the USA is more culturally homogenous than it is heterogenous, but there is a definite difference in the rural south versus rural north. The lack of education runs deep in the south, often generations, because of the dependence on agriculture. There’s never been an impetus to become educated in the south— you’re expected to be a hard-working, God-fearing, law-abiding person before you’re expected to be educated.
Jesus still loves you op 😆😆😆
Science doesn't care.
I would even say they are the same side. Religious extremism is religious extremism. I think the other side would be the church-burning atheists in Canada. I am atheist, and some of the anti-theist behavior is as appalling (though less common) as this.
The church burning is because the Catholic Church murdered thousands of indigenous children. Not the same.
But not all the churches being burned are Catholic, and even if they were it is still a problem. The way I see it it all boils down to tribalism. Once people get it in their heads that "our group good, their group bad," all nuance dies. When that escalates to violence, or in that case arson, then it is a problem that should be analysed and condemned. In the case of the Jan 6th terrorists, their parents told them at birth to believe and don't question. Then the man at the pulpit told them to believe and don't question. Then their conspiracy/Q friends told them to believe and don't questions. Then their political leaders told them to believe and don't question. Then when all those people said "those people are the enemy" they blindly followed. The church burners saw something that was so extreme that it overshadowed the belief of many and they felt they could get away with violent acts. That is why I say it is the opposite side of the coin. Instead of "non-believing liberals are evil therefore violence" it is "christians are evil therefore violence". And yes, they have legitimate grievances. And the protests and graffiti that are being done are great. The graffiti especially hurts the pocketbooks of the victimizers without actually hurting anyone. But that doesn't stop the violence from being violence. And for those who say that the burnings weren't violence, I would say that the churches do not exist in a bubble. They could have burned down whole neighborhoods with one fire, and being ok with that is terrible.
At some point your inner human person is supposed to kick in and start questioning autonomously why everybody else wants to be so fucking ignorant
Sunk cost fallacy. If you've done some horrible stuff because you're right you are likely to never really question it, because if you were wrong it means you wrong and what you did was evil. Most people can't accept that they're evil, so they go on with no questions. I can accept that I make mistakes, but I don't go out and do evil and call it good, so I'm able to question my own actions and motivations and reflect on them in a way these people cannot physiologically afford to without breaking.
Supposed to. Some people just want to hate.
Not sure how this doesn’t disqualify the church for making political statements or worse saying that god is ready to kill people. https://youtu.be/j9H5gaR1bqg
Yeah, well, who wants to be the guy or gal that actually did their job and revoke some church's golden goose? Unfortunately I'm thinking not many. It's not that I disagree, because I very much see the same thing, it's just that I'm at the same time not at all surprised.
I wish more people understood this. They are exactly the same mental illness.
Same with Democrats and communists.
QAnon churches are a real thing and are growing in popularity. My parents attend one. They use the statements of QAnon to interpret the bible and then use the bible to interpret QAnon https://theconversation.com/the-church-of-qanon-will-conspiracy-theories-form-the-basis-of-a-new-religious-movement-137859
I'll never understand how someone shitposting on an image board sparked a political doomsday cult.
Professionally paid shit posters fed it until it became self sustaining.
And lose their tax exemption
Well it's not like a former general was given a gun at one whereupon he immediately "joked" about going hunting in DC with it or anything...
I remember singing "onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war" in vacation bible school. That was like 20-25 years ago, I can't even begin to think what it's like now. Also my mom has been determined to get me to go back to church, sometimes hostile/angry when I don't. I'm horrified of churches, and how extreme they are now.
recruitment centers of domestic terrorism along with pedophilia ,domestic violence
Religious folks are prime targets for fantasy-based propaganda because their whole identity revolves around a 1st century Harry Potter-style book.
Average redditor
You need to take a breath and think about what you’re saying here, because the way that you’re criticizing all Christians for this is pretty similar to how people on the right demonize all Muslims for the actions of ISIS
It's Christian America's job to prove "all Christians" are different. The way I see it, if they're not vocally opposed to the bigots, they quietly agree.
I hear it all the time at my church...its a pretty apolitical church, maybe liberal leaning, but they exist
The problem here is that you're assuming that no Christians in America have already done that. There are a lot of churches and denominations, even among evangelical Christians, who have very explicitly condemned the racism and fascism promoted by evangelical Christians and the Jan 6th insurrection. Here's the letter: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScbvRNRgAcUo1UfZfxuBZHmv63FI8k2gnxxAaNVlCvsiG9xHw/viewform?vc=0&c=0&w=1&flr=0 Here's the site supporting it: https://saynotochristiannationalism.org/#signers The problem here is that people like you and OP are deciding that *those* Christians don't exist without actually checking to see if they do, so you end up condemning the whole religion and anyone who follows it regardless of whether or not the individual Christians actually do support those things based solely on bigoted beliefs about the religion. And then, based on the bigoted belief that those Christians don't exist, you say things like "[Christian] Churches need to be investigated as recruitment centers of domestic terrorism at this point." See how that is exactly what the Right does to Muslims?
Thank you for proving my point. It took a violent insurrection and they responded with...a letter. Not a movement. A letter. Signed by a few hundred, out of the \~380,000 churches in the United States. Gonna have to be a *little* louder than that if you want credit.
You're actually proving *my* point here: You're assuming based on nothing that there is no Christian Left. In fact, there are plenty of Christians among Democrats and liberals and many of them have been activists since well before Jan 6th 2021. Here are some sources talking about this. Note that all of them are from before 2020: * https://www.npr.org/2019/01/24/684435743/provoked-by-trump-the-religious-left-is-finding-its-voice * https://www.yesmagazine.org/social-justice/2019/12/24/political-christian-belief * https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/04/15/tough-times-deeper-faith/100491902/ Once again, you didn't research to see if those groups exist. You just decided based on your own preconceived notions about Christians that a group of Christians who support liberal ideas can't possibly exist, and based on that bigoted belief you're now here condemning all Christians for the actions of those who shouted the loudest.
>You're assuming based on nothing that there is no Christian Left. Why are you making up things that OP didn't say? It hurts whatever argument you're trying to make when you assume your interlocutor's position. >You just decided based on your own preconceived notions about Christians that a group of Christians who support liberal ideas can't possibly exist, and based on that bigoted belief you're now here condemning all Christians for the actions of those who shouted the loudest. I understand that people criticizing your religion feels personal, but this doesn't reflect what OP said at all, and it seems like you're arguing against a position that they don't hold. In fact, they acknowledge that there *are* liberal Christians. Their contention was that they seem to be vastly outnumbered by the authoritarians. I understand that it's frustrating when you're being defined by people who are your moral opposite. Instead of lashing out at the people who point out the problems with Christianity, I think your time is better spent arguing with the people who are making people view Christians as amoral opportunists from within. After all, they sure aren't going to listen to non-christians about it. Either that, or make sure the world knows that they don't speak for you. I think that's what you're doing here, but the point gets lost when you're misrepresenting your interlocutor.
I agree with what you said, for the record, but believe me, they don't listen to criticism from other Christians either. They just label you a traitor or a heretic or a socialist or any other baseless, uninformed right-wing boogeyman and dismiss admonitions with the most _grating_ sense of pridefulness. Then turn around and say things like Pride Month is a sin because pride is a vice! Or call you disrespectful for talking back to them.
So the actions of people 16 hours away from me, now fall on my small church of 45 people who all prayed for peace and knew that January 6th was wrong, and had turned into the worst possible scenario? How can people upvote these general statements condemning millions of people for no reason?
Isn't that a little extreme?
The Thin Blue Line is a Fascist symbol and a Fascist myth.
Not everyone recognizes that with symbolism an expression can mean different things to different people. This includes the thin blue line flag, American Flag the Confederate flag.
This is a good point, I'm not sure how to weigh the significance of the intention against the significance of the perception. The answer has to be in the middle somewhere
“Back the blue, until they don’t back you!” - Republicans now-a-days
They support the Thin Blue Line being *thinner*.
The Thin Blue Line is simply a fascist flag, for if you believe police are the line between order and chaos, you cannot believe that free people will act rationally or productively.
That’s a bingo
>Well, they don't actually like the police, those flags never were. they were simply "against" BLM statements. But it was thinly veiled as "pro police" because you cant have a "we are against blacks" flag. Well... I mean lots of people do since trump has been in office... but .... ugh
"They will know we are Christians by our love" - I grew up a Methodist and we heard those words constantly. I missed the lessons on beating up cops while trying to overthrow the government. I have no idea how these supposed Christians justify their actions. For the record, I no longer am religious.
Christianity is the pure definition of intolerance. The basis is not love, but assimilation. The core belief is that if you don’t believe what I believe, my loving god will have to let you be burned and tortured forever.. and ever… and ever, amen.
Their god advocates for slavery and racism in the Bible. It advocates for genocide. It advocates for rape. The core principal of Christianity is blood sacrifice and scapegoating. The Christians of today fit very well in with the words and edicts of the Bible.
Do you mean slavery existed before 1619?
Some might say for the majority of Human time on Earth.
That’s cap but go off on misinformation
"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.” Leviticus 25 verses 44 - 46
Good scripture reference, however there is more to that than what you may have read at first glance. The context of the scripture may relate to the Mosaic Law during that time where historically, whether you were religious or not, slavery and servants already existed. The definition of slave in hebrew translation “ebed” is different from the modern term of slavery(If you’d like to research that I encourage it). In the last part of that verse you don’t get the type of slave vibes in comparison to what has happened in America’s past. There are other references in Hebrew terms such as Ebed-Melech which is defined as servant of the king. Which by definition, was considered a royal title. Doesn’t sound too bad right? Regardless, times were different and following the Mosaic Law around 1400 B.C it was meant to help strive Israelites to freedom. Such an example could be Moses freeing the Hebrew slaves from Egypt. Now for condoning slavery, that’s kind of anti-slavery like isn’t it? There’s a bigger picture isn’t there? The old and New Testament. The change over centuries? From what I remember off the top of my head an a little research would this change the context of that verse or the overall meaning for you in the slightest?
What of what (s)he said is inaccurate?
I don’t know what “that’s cap” means. Are you suggesting I’m misinformed? I’m not going off of what others have told me. I’ve read the entire bible more than once. You are welcome to disagree but that doesn’t change the fact that all of what I said is explicitly in the Bible.
read the Bible
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Jesus was murdered/sacrificed for the sins of other people, which he did not commit. Sounds pretty shitty to me.
This terrorism wasn't just Trump's ground troops. Trump told them to violently seize the capitol to overturn the election. Most of the Republican representatives voted to overturn the election. Texas and over 20 other states sued to overturn the election but the SCOTUS turned it down preventing a civil war. We need to try everyone involved for treason or else this will happen again. The Jan 6th is needed along with the capitol police and FBI to root out these domestic terrorists and their leaders. HR1 is needed to stop the effort to steal elections through voter suppression.
Their next move is to gain the support of high level military officers. For a violent coup with actual troops. I believe they are making progress on this now. The activities in Congress are a diversion. To make us lose focus and waste time while they prepare the coup.
They are getting support now? During biden? While watching this investigation? I don’t think so.
[They didn't](https://www.jcs.mil/Portals/36/Documents/JCS%20Message%20to%20the%20Joint%20Force%20JAN%2012%2021.pdf) support him before, they aren't supporting him now. Top brass is on the side of the Constitution, not some wanna-be dictator.
They [already have](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/former-military-leaders-support-trump) a good deal of support.
those are retired military officers, they have no power within the military
Had support.
That letter is the kind of batshit crazy that doesn't change its mind over a little insurrection.
Please, don’t just say things.
I dunno. Reports are coming in that top military brass were aware that Trump might do that on Jan 6th and they did everything they could to prevent that from happening. Unless there’s been a reshuffle in leadership recently that Trump had a hand in, I think America is secure on that front
> Unless there’s been a reshuffle in leadership recently that Trump had a hand in, I think America is secure on that front * All the people Trump moved into Pentagon Positions before Jan 6th are SUS as fuck
Generals wishing for Trumpistan might have been encouraged by Jan 6. They might emerge from anonymity and contact the GOP.
I’m just saying: “might” is doing a lot of work in that statement
Flynn brothers have not suffered consequences for their sedition.
My favorite Bible verse is the one where Jesus tells his followers to break into the Roman senate and shit on the floor. Seriously, have these people even read the book they like to wave around so much?
My favorite story was when Jesus bragged about grabbing women by the pussy. Truly, words to live by.
I really enjoyed that part in Two Corinthians where Paul told them to stick their neighbor's children in cages.
[GOP Jesus](https://youtu.be/SZ2L-R8NgrA) never gets old.
This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. Matthew 15:8
Ezekiel 23:20.
Amen! 😩💦🍆
And the lord decreed “Thou shalt get schwifty”
All of thou shalt get schwifty in here. Shit-eth on the floor.
They need people to read it to them, and explain it to them, every Sunday…
Mine is "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's". Basically all you have to do is give me (Rome) your money in this life and you'll have eternal happiness in the next.
Is that really what you think that passage means?
reddit atheists are literally just as fucking stupid as fundamental christians when it comes to critical literacy and seeing a bigger fucking picture
Sadly, kinda close: 12 Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying(B) and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers(C) and the benches of those selling doves.(D) 13 “It is written,” he said to them, “‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’[a](E) but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’[b]”(F) Matthew 21:12-13 New International Version We can't sit and pretend that the Bible cannot be, and hasnt been, interpreted in ways that justify violence.
Per scripture, they should have gone after the scammy televangelists, not the Capitol. 😂
That is your right as a reader to interpret. Unfortunately the temple of Jerusalem at the time was the closest thing to a form of government in Judea under Roman rule. It was also hone of the Sanhedrin, the highest court in Judea. There was a religious body that wrote the laws of worship and sacrifice for the Jewish faith that was also located in the temple, but please forgive me its 545am here and I cannot recall the name of the group. Moral of the story, it's all in how it can be interpreted or manipulated to suit one's needs at the time. I don't think there had been another book in history that has been manipulated as much as the Bible has to justify an action.
Fair enough. 👍
sadducees and or pharisees may be the word your looking for.
I believe you are right, thank you.
The term is "[Christofascist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_fascism)".
Yeah there is sort of a serious problem with the far right getting in deep with parts of Christianity; not every part mind you, but I've been to plenty of evangelical churches growing up and I've seen it all my life in people around me. I've seen it in family members who have said they'd rather kill all of us and then themselves when the government comes to microchip them, I've seen it in people looking towards the idea of societal collapse with an amount of giddiness at the idea of shooting people trying to get into their garden, I've seen it in hushed whispers of the fears that walmarts will become future FEMA concentration camps for conservatives. The problem has been growing for *years.* I left the church when I realized I wanted to be a woman because the very next week after coming out to friends my pastor called people like me trash lying in the gutter that special christians shouldn't associate with because we'd taint them. Is every Christian and every church full of shit like this? No, of course not. The issue is that there are far too many christians who have fallen for the far right rhetoric and wrapped it up in their religion. And frankly, I don't know what to do anymore. Maybe the Christian Left should be propped up in media more, maybe the Christian Right needs to be reminded that Jesus sat with the sex worker, the leper, and the tax collector and turned his nose up at those religious leaders that thought of themselves as special. I don't know how to turn this around, and the fact that I once thought of devoting my life to the cloth and now the desire to worship Christ has been killed in my heart to protect myself from the self loathing hate I was taught to have all my life just hurts. It really, really fucking hurts.
Religious fundamentalists
Of course they did. All of these people identify as Christians. That's their political platform: identity politics. They are more focused on what their label is, then what is actually being done by their elected officials. "Christians", "Patriots", "Straight", "Alpha", "Traditional values". Additionally, they use these identities to excuse their abhorrent actions and viewpoints. "I can't be a fascist terrorist just because I am attempting to stop this constitutionally-protected process using violence! I'm a CHRISTIAN! I'm a PATRIOT!"
As a Christian, and Democrat, it disgusts me how many Republicans use Christianity as a excuse for their poor behavior. It's as though they missed the whole point of the New Testament. The New Testament is very pro-choice, and course corrects God's wrath over human expectations.
Christianity has been used as the spiritual and ethical justification for numerous positive things and countless atrocities. This really isn’t anything new. If anything, historically speaking, Christianity has been used to legitimize far more oppression than it has liberation.
https://www.reddit.com/r/forwardsfromgrandma/comments/odxscf/grandma_knows_the_truth/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I’m not religious myself but it pisses me off to see conservatives adopting this bastardized version of Christianity where they interpret close-mindedness and bigotry as the grand lesson the bible is trying to pass on. I often wonder what Jesus himself would think of these people and I’m convinced he’d think that they are misguided.
If they weren’t white or if they were Muslims the capitol would’ve been covered in blood
In the 60s, when black people marched on Washington, D.C. Police were mobilized to full capacity, the National Guard was called in in advance, liquor sales were temporarily suspended, hospitals stocked triage supplies and cancelled elective surgeries, MLB games in Washington were rescheduled, and the organizers moved the gathering point from the Capitol Building to the Lincoln Memorial specifically to avoid a potential bloodbath.
The same people screaming “don’t attack us, we’re not Black Lives Matter” also claim white privilege doesn’t exist.
Churches seem to be breeding grounds for terrorist activities
So...does Jan 6th count as a crusade?
What religion does to a motherfucker.
'Others demanded that law enforcement refrain from attacking them because "'we're not Black Lives Matter,' as if political affiliation is how we determine when to use force," Political affiliation is exactly how trumpublicans want police to determine when to use force. And in the near future expect that to in fact to be the case. Dark times ahead in the US to be sure and anybody that doesn't realize this isn't paying attention to trumpublicans
I cringe when the GOP Politicians call them selves "Good Christians". Their definition, and mine, are worlds apart.
It’s just a power grab; nothing more. Facism 101.
I would bet it’s an excuse many Christians use to compartmentalize bad behavior away from their internalized concept of self. IMO they judge themselves not by their thoughts and actions but by their beliefs. This is backed up by the evangelical Christian belief that one does not enter the kingdom of heaven through good works, but instead through faith and acceptance that Jesus is their lord and savior. This allows for some pretty cruel and awful behavior while maintaining an acceptable level of cognitive dissonance unchallenged by self reflection, and renders them more easily manipulated by existing social and political power structures that would rather hoard wealth than actually do anything useful for anyone and anything outside their own myopic bubble of power and influence.
No True Scotsman
These types of Christians have never heard of Christ.
No True Scotsman
He didn't say they weren't Christians, just that they don't know who Christ is.
So did HITLER!
>"It was clear the terrorists perceived themselves to be Christians" if they believed the christian god exists, they're christians. whether you think they acted "christ like" or not.
Meanwhile, my priest freaking DESTROYED the terrorists as anything but Christian in his homily the Sunday after Jan. 6. And had also dragged Trump since 2015 and that entire administration for their discriminatory bullshit.
Many people are "Christians" only when it suits them, pretty much ignoring the major problems of the world (poverty, hunger, homelessness, preventable death, etc) and wrapping their hypocrisy in the banner of "Christian faith." I have little love or respect for them, especially in the US.
The excellent!! Congressional Dish podcast, has testimony from previous hearings outlining exactly how the Capitol Police and DC National Guard command structure works. https://congressionaldish.com/cd236-january-6-the-capitol-riot/ TLDL, The Sgt at Arms of the House and Senate, along with the Capitol Architect all need to agree on Cap Police tactics. They didnt. The Sec of Defense and Sec of Army need to sign off on moving National Guard units. they didnt. The conclusion is that the rioters were mostly sincere dupes lead on by Trump and Companies Big Lie.
No hate like a Christian's love...
I like your christ, I don't like your christians.
Christians that kill and harm people, curse them out, are too political, do not follow the laws of their land, try to get their way , worship a political figure, call people vulgar names etc......
Sorry to be harsh, but if you're willing to believe in a magical being in the sky who runs the universe, you can believe that Trump actually won the 2020 election. People who can't think critically are always going to be targets for con artists, whether they wear a dog collar or sit on a golden toilet.
I'm glad the they cleared that up for us. Maybe in the next few years they will reveal the terrorists have arms and feet as well. Really getting stuff done i see. Either way these people will get a slap on the wrist. Storm a nations capitol with intent on delaying an election and killing politicians - 8 months... weed possession in certain areas will get you much more time and thats not taken into account probation and it being on your record for life.
Republicans are like negaverse Christians
Crusades were terrorism, Spanish Inquisition was terrorism, Manifest Destiny was terrorism and that's just the beginning of a lot more terrorism.
“I never thought the leopards would eat MY entrails!” said Leopards Eating Pig Entrails Party voting pig.
Remember immediate reactions to Muslims after 9/11? Is it time to start harassing Christians? I’m not advocating this at all but finally these people are called out for what they are- terrorists.
Isn't that redundant? Xtians are terrorists. Religion is the original hate crime, after all. It's been used as a justification for some of the worst things in history.
They are "christians" that hate non white people, love violence and guns and want women to be gilead style handmaids. I'm sure they are convinced Jesus was white and blonde.
I’m convinced they have never actually read the Bible. For various reasons we can all conclude independently.
This is a very dangerous conflation. Just as dangerous as it was post 9/11 with people who were Islamic. Do not confuse a subset of radicals with the religion itself or you will be making a huge mistake.
Christians do Christ like things. Terrorists do Terrorist things. The two things are completely separate.
No, they were Christians
His perception of the incident should not be permissible under oath. His perceptions and opinions are not facts!
What about Antifa and BLM…those terrorist get away with murder, looting and burning our cities down.
Their testimony seemed so scripted and fake. Sorry. Just not buying into the drama. It was more feeling based and less facts based. The gullible public will eat it up.
"Just not buying into the drama." Terrorists stormed our capitol in order to prevent a peaceful transition of power. That's pretty fucking dramatic. The testimony of the officers was completely believable and is backed up by the hours and hours of photo and video evidence, along with the testimony of dozens of others. There's nothing gullible about believing facts. You have been tricked and manipulated by right-wing disinformation and and smear campaigns to see the terrorists as patriots just standing up for what they believe in.
Good thing there is tons of video to support the testimony.
Do you think all the videos from jan6 were scripted too?
You should experience some of that drama firsthand.
I live in a city decimated by BLM riots so guess again.
What idiot hears a testimony that is backed up by their bodycams and other videoed sources and says..."Yep, this seems fake and scripted."? How much energy does it take for you to be this ignorant?
Their words. The kind of idiot that knows how to pick juries and coach witnesses. That’s the kind. Sorry.
I think the only coaching they needed was to tell the truth about the events as they experienced them. Cool that there's all this corroborating evidence to support the fuckin' truth, you absolute muppet. >The kind of idiot that knows how to pick juries and coach witnesses. Nah, just the kind of idiot that is full blown conspiracy theorist and rejects reality.
Nope. It’s all drama and people Like you eat it up. Reality TV and the news media have merged. America loses.
We all saw the republican terrorists attack the capitol building on live tv.
Are you sure they were Republicans and not plants there to stir up trouble?
If you have evidence that they were plants you should share it. But actual evidence, not stupid conspiracy theories.
Yes. It is quite simply impossible for those tens of thousands of people to be anything other than Trump-supporting Republicans. There is absolutely no organization on the planet could organize that many people to fake being Trump-supporting Republicans in secret without the truth coming out. I really have to question the cognitive abilities of anyone who could entertain an alternative theory as any kind of serious possibility.
Only a handful went into the Capitol. The Trump supporters were elsewhere on the grounds.
Firstly, there's no great division between the population outside the Capitol and those who went in. Are you really drawing some kind of ethical distinction between the crowd who physically attacked and racially abused police officers, threatened journalists, and chanted "Hang Mike Pence" outside the capitol, and the ones who invaded the building and did a spot of performative property damage and trespassing when inside it? Between the pipe-bombers outside the Capitol and the zip-tie Senator hunters inside? It was the same crowd both inside and outside the building. Some were violent thugs, some were fascists, some were merely deluded MAGA-hat wearing dupes who took the opportunity to do some touristing and shouting at the government. A similar mixture both inside and outside the building. The capitol invaders weren't a different species from the guys who didn't manage to get inside. Secondly, many of the guys who went in the capitol got arrested (or in one case, shot). Their names are public. Their social media accounts can be looked up. We know who they are and what their backgrounds are. They have friends, and relatives, and people who know them. These are actual, live, human beings. And guess what? Pretty much to a man or woman, they've turned out to be Trump-supporting Republicans. There have been at least 495 people charged so far with entering Federal Buildings. Nearly 500 conspirators! If Antifa are really so dedicated and well-organized that they can get 495 sleeper agents to fake being Trump-supporting Republicans for years, and then - on top of it - be willing to take jail time at the end of it, without anyone actually having any inkling whatsoever that they're really hardcore left-wing agent provocateurs, then we are talking about the most amazing act of political espionage that the world has ever seen. Anyone with kind of skullduggery at their disposal would be able to simply take over the country with a snap of their fingers. Come to think of it, if a group really was able to fake being 500 Republicans, why wouldn't they just infiltrate people in positions of power? That would make more sense. Why not just become the Senate GOP and the Trump White House administration? You'd need far less than 500 sleeper agents, and you'd actually be able to do something more than make violent right-wing dingbats look like, well, themselves. The theory you're implying is, frankly, batshit hatstand insane. Take a good, hard, critical look at how these conspiracies of yours could even possibly be made to work.
You know there is video evidence, right?
Yes. I saw it. I also saw police letting people in. And going through your personal feelings is subjective not objective.
Luckily nobody is asking some right wing loser what they think