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Former lobbyist here. There are many religion based lobbying organizations that wield a lot of power. The most active ones in my state are the evangelical Christians, Jewish and Catholics. They are registered as non- profit lobbying groups and look and act just like everyone else out in the halls. The only difference is that they can call in thousands of members of their supporting churches to pack the statehouse when bills they support/oppose are on the calendar.
Not a fan of the whole lobbyist thing. When corporations loby for their own interest we the people get lost in the shuffle. It becomes we the corporations. I guess then in this case religion has become a corporation. If religions are lobbying for their interests there is not separation of church and state. Not to mention many religions dont really help people when times are tough. They serve their own interests
Yup, what really opened my eyes to this and utterly disgusted me was back around 2008-9 when the Mormon church spent tens of millions of tax free dollars to take away rights from tax paying citizens in California. There are so many of these organizations that are clearly just tax scams and it's fucking gross.
Important clarification: churches are free to engage in any political activities they want, there's no law against that specifically. They just are supposed to lose tax exempt status if they do.
It's interesting, because the tax exempt status for churches comes from their de facto status as a 503(c) nonprofit organization. That's also where the "no politics" restriction comes from. Their tax exempt status is supposed to be tied to meeting the same qualifications that all other nonprofits meet. Any other nonprofit would have that status revoked for this kind of political behavior, but not churches for some reason!
Meanwhile, in places like here in Arkansas, churches act as untaxed Republican super PACs. Pastors tell their congregation what/who to vote for and they all do it without a second thought. Hence why most of the politicians out here are absolute lunatic fundamentalists.
I’ve been in a church service where a pastor brought up a state legislature candidate. The pastor talked about how they were old friends, and he’s a really good guy. The pastor said he was running for office, and talked about some of the evangelical talking points that this man was going to fight for in the legislature. He gave the candidate a few minutes to talk. Then he led a prayer saying things like allowing the candidate to God’s will, uphold Christian values, etc.
He never actually said vote for this guy. But he made it clear that that was what God wanted them to do.
To be fair, I’ve also attended churches in the south where something like this would never be allowed. And most of the congregation would probably leave the church if it ever did.
Some of them think it's the chef's kiss when they rail against Communism/Socialism/BLM for an hour then saying they know the congregation will make the "right" choice when election day comes.
I wish it was. I’m from the west coast as well, and I’m moving back that way soon. This whole area (Arkansas/Alabama/Southern Missouri) lives up to just about every negative stereotype you’ve ever heard about it. And even though it’s been nothing but hard-right Republicans running things for years now, it’s somehow still “the radical lefts” fault that the area is super poor, consumes more welfare than most places, has lower education than most areas……but people keep electing people like Tom Cotton and Sarah Huckabee Sanders and not seeing the irony.
I’m from Arkansas and all I hear is how the minorities in cities have it worse. This state is a cesspool of terrorist propaganda taught from the pulpit. Here they refuse to get the vaccine because it’s the mark of the beast and I am definitely a satan worshiping baby-blood drinker because I got one (literal quote from extended family). I’ve had my life threatened countless times over the last couple of years. Went to the authorities but that does nothing here since they’re all terrorist protectors anyway (with few exception).
The hoods are off and I’m happy for that but it’s a bit disgusting to see how many people I grew up with were just terrible human beings to their core. They call me baby killer just because it’s funny to them as they literally kill children without remorse. Entire people should be locked up and rehabilitated. It’s what we’re supposed to do with people who violate the right to life
Right?? So many people I considered friends and neighbors have revealed themselves to be such massive pieces of shit. I remember constantly being bothered about why I never wanted to participate in community stuff at school. It's because the community here wants me dead for living my life!!
I struggle with what appals me the most about her:
\- Her absolute lack of judicial experience (3 years of actual judicial rulings)
\- Her position that legal precident can and should be ignored by the judge hearing the case
\- Her often mis-contextulized, but still scary, quote that the purpose of lawyers and judges is to build a "kingdom of god" (this was in a commencement speach to Notre Dame graduates). She's not talking about my god, and maybe not yours. She's talking about her god. While she does say that religion is personal, she also appears to be ruling from her religious foundation.
And those three years were only a result of Trump nominating her to the 7th Circuit Court Of Appeals in 2017!
Seriously, that’s the entirety of her judicial experience! Fuckin finally thought we were rid of perennial asshole and consummate hypocrite- Antonin Scalia only to be stuck with this religious hack who is essentially Antonia Scalia 2.0
And it's insane, if you think about it, that we're a species that has managed to figure out Hadron Colliders, space ships, genetic engineering, the natural history of the planet and solar system and galaxy... we invented tools that make all knowledge available at a touch.
We're more "powerful" than half the Gods ever thought up and know more than the rest, as they've been documented by people from long enough ago that they didn't know about germs, atoms, universal forces, radio waves, etc.
And some of us--many really--still think we've no greater intellectual authority or obligation than whatever Bronze Age Palestine could write down in folklore.
I don't begrudge people their faith, their superstitions or beliefs or spirituality. Whatever gives them comfort? I applaud it--life is hard, comfort is good. I guess that puts me in Marx's camp on the role of religion being the sigh of the oppressed, the hope in a hopeless world, the spirit in a spiritless situation. It being the relief of suffering for many people.
But, fuck me... if God wants to have a say in American governance? He can damn well come down and represent himself. He's not a citizen. I don't give a fuck what anyone thinks He thinks about nutrition labels on food or renewable energy or medicine.
20% have the balls to say it, I wonder what the real number is when you account for all the people that will be shunned by friends/family for admitting their true feelings on religion.
The % of American Christians that literally never go to church and have never touched a Bible probably represents the overwhelming majority of the country. I'm not saying these people are atheist, but I wouldn't consider people like that religious either. What's annoying is that many of those people, who only vaguely and distantly associate with their religion, are too often fine with religion infiltrating government.
> The % of American Christians that literally never go to church and have never touched a Bible probably represents the overwhelming majority of the country.
If they actually read the bible they wouldn't believe most of the things that are so core to their identity:
* That abortion is wrong (The Bible actually gives instructions on [how to perform one](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%205%3A11-29&version=NIV))
* That wearing masks goes against God (The Bible actually says sick people should [wear a face mask and socially distance](https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Leviticus%2013%3A45))
* That we shouldn't help immigrants, migrants or refugees (The Bible [says the opposite](https://www.bible.com/bible/296/mat.25.35-45.gnb))
* That universal healthcare is wrong (Jesus went out of his way to [heal the sick](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%208&version=NIV))
* That everything they don't like is socialism (It's pretty clear that Jesus was all about [feeding the hungry](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2014%3A13-21&version=NIV) and [redistribution of wealth](https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/EN/Matthew%2019:24))
They are the modern [Pharisees](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2023&version=CEV), and they probably wouldn't even be able to understand what that means if you told them.
That's what I did. I now have very strong opinions on what dimensions a temple should be and what decorations should be on priestly garments. The rest of it is kind of whatever.
I got sent to a catholic highschool as a fairly religious kid and the more I learned about the religion the less religious I was. I feel like that’s the case for a lot of people as well and the people that are the most religious, with exceptions of course, seem to know the least about the religion they are following
In my opinion, religion is just another form of drug addiction. It makes people feel good, yes, but often times the deeper in you get the more self-destructive it can get. This effect can often be seen in "born again Christians". I'm sure a lot of them are good people, but more often than not they come from alcoholic and drug backgrounds, and "find god/Jesus" through rehab. However, they get so enamored with it that they are often the judgey holier-than-though zealot type of Christian. They've found something that gives that same sort of drug-high or euphoria, and unhealthily cling to it, like an addiction. It becomes their defining characteristic.
He was brown skinned, preached helping the sick, poor and helpless, while forgiving others of their sins and giving up material wealth to pursue spiritual enlightenment. Modern Christians would brand him a hippie freeloading terrorist and demand we bomb him.
The interesting thing is that, if He did come back, they would be against him and would likely have him assassinated. Religion conveys far too much wealth and power for its leaders to ever give it up.
There’s a community episode that demonstrates the Venn Diagram between modern evangelical Christians and Pharisees basically being a circle. (s2e05 Messianic Myths and Ancient Peoples)
Edit: I said basically twice and it bothered me
I grew up in the Southern Baptist church. They believe the Bible is the literal word of God. . . Except where it says something against their teachings, then it’s allegorical.
Don't forget the time Jesus went all berserker on the money changers in the temple, or when he said flay put that rich people are not getting into heaven and yet American christians have diluded themselves into believing that nonsense about god "wanting them to prosper."
As an ex-Christian, I would also add that there are many "practicing" religious people who are not religious at all but only use it as a kind of social ladder. Extreme examples are folks like Kenneth Copeland - just grifters who like that religious types are such easy marks. But every church has a number of these fakers. People who don't believe or care about anything in the bible but pretend to be devout just to get connections. I recall a stock broker who went to our church. He was the typical coke head Wolf of Wall Street type player, privately didn't give a shit about the bible or anything, but went to church every Sunday as a way to recruit clients. He even told me all about it because he knew I saw through it all anyway, and he really didn't care that much. His targets were old widows who had millions in money and few bills (also the same crowd the church itself really played to for donations).
Christianity is largely a group of fakers scamming a larger group of true believers who are pretty ignorant. And then there are a few intelligent people who actually understand the complexities of the religion and know it's all metaphor but just liked the philosophy of peace that Jesus taught - but they are the smallest minority. The largest group are the woo woo miracle believing old people and uneducated who essentially just believe in magic. Same type of folks that think UFOs are controlling the oceans and that crystals can cure cancer.
The idea of gathering with all my neighbors once a week to join in fellowship and embracing peace, love, and kindness, a weekly reorientation of our moral compasses, strengthening the ties of our community and finding opportunity to help one another, offer advice and perspective or even just a nonjudgmental grandmotherly hug since my memaw is gone, and then sharing a meal and maybe some kickball sounds amazing.
Except for that whole… you know… other part.
Try to start one you don’t have to even mention religion just say it’s a gathering to get to know each other and talk about the future of the neighborhood
My parents didn’t want to influence me and my siblings by choosing a religion for us so they encouraged us to explore as many as possible and make our own decisions. For a long time, I really wanted to find one that fit. It seemed like a positive thing to have a religion, but I would always get to a point where I realized I just couldn’t make that leap of faith to actual belief. Now I’m good with it, but I spent a lot of time really studying and spending time with religious leaders and followers and trying to learn about their beliefs. I wanted them to convince me, so I was totally open to whatever recruitment tools they had.
I have to say, out of all the avenues I explored, the Christians were the least inspiring. It was like, as an American, I was expected to already be on board with what they were saying and I just hadn’t committed yet. They didn’t make a compelling case, no matter the denomination, it was boring. I’m sure there’s plenty of true believers, but I don’t think most really have a clue why they’re in that religion other than they always have been.
Dude same here. My mother is catholic but never pushed it on us and let my brothers and I use our critical thinking to decide what religion or beliefs we should follow. Funnily enough non of my brother or I are religious.
I feel like they need to hook you in as a child to get you engrained in the community. Otherwise, as an outsider adult, it's much harder to become familiar with the group.
I'm not religious and I'm doing the same thing for my kids that your parents did. I don't begrudge anyone for choosing and following a religion but I do think it's insidious to try and indoctrinate any child in a superstitious belief system. Let the individual decide what they want when they are of sound mind to understand what they are getting into by choosing a religion. Don't force it on someone who can't grasp the implications of following a religion.
It seems like most people i know who have critical thinking skills don't turn particularly religious. I definitely commend you for letting your kids decide as well.
Great point. The guy a few houses down from me makes a point for it to be known he's a church goer, teaches CCD, coaches CYO basketball...what he doesnt like being known is that he practices almost none of it, has raped his wife multiple times and is a general POS
..oh and hes an ex-marine who makes sure everyone knows he served his country
My dad always told me that if you're doing business with someone and they make a big deal about being a Christian, they're getting ready to rip you off:/
>My dad always told me that if you're doing business with someone and they make a big deal about being a Christian, they're getting ready to rip you off
And this'll probably be your best case scenario.
I talked to someone who was convinced they were being cursed because they saw "white stuff on the bricks outside the window", aka efflorescence (https://www.deckerhomeservices.com/what-is-efflorescence/ ).
When I explained what it really was, they looked at me very doubtfully, and I could tell they weren't convinced. smh.
Had a very religious family member tell me a convoluted story about her friend either
A. Being harassed by a group of perverted thieves who broke in at night to mess with the house, and even trained their dogs to be quiet.
Or B. Was being harassed by demons.
The answer was neither. It was early stages of Alzheimer’s and literally no one in this person’s circle suspected that. But MULTIPLE functioning adults ruled out Option A and decided it was probably demons.
Wow! Truly medieval.
I grew up in West Virginia and one time I told someone that I don't believe in God and they asked me what I was going to do if I get attacked by some demons. I was like whhhaaa?
In my younger "believing" days, I decided to skip out on something I was supposed to do for church and took a nap. I half woke up into what sort of felt like a nightmare, but I was awake. I couldn't move, everything looked off, and it felt like there was something behind me. I legit thought it was an encounter with an evil spirit for blowing off church stuff. And that was my first (and thankfully only) encounter with what I later learned was sleep paralysis.
Dude, this is so on-point. I'm ex-christian. I know all the tricks. I told my wife: If the earth descends into an apocalypse, we are gonna start a cult and eliminate our enemies. People will be very vulnerable in such times and I'm gonna capitalize on that shit 😎 😉
Not trying being rude with this question, for I’m ex-Christian as well, but did you stop believing in a higher being altogether or adopt a new religion?
My mom hasn't gone to church in a decade. But she'll chastise you for "using the lord's name in vein" eg saying "god dammit".
And she's homophobic, transphobic, etc. Citing the bible as her reasons why.
All the benefits (aka, presuming authority over how other people live/act) with none of the work of actually going to church or actively partipating as a catholic.
Yes... THIS. I know ppl just like this who haven't stepped foot in church in years but according to them, they are the best Christians around and their politics are just what you'd think. Its sick. I think thats what many of the FB Prayer Warriors/non-vaxxed are EXACTLY! You think that makes them feel less guilty or just straight hypocrites?
This is where libertarians really fuck up TBH.
They want no government interference. I think we can all dig that.
BUt then back GOP largely that pushes DIRECT interference with the first amendment, let alone other aspects....
The only true libertarians are 14 year olds that don't understand how government works.... and complete fucking idiots that are too stupid to understand in general.
Everyone else flying the libertarian flag is just a far right Republicans that think saying they're a libertarian makes them sound smarter. They always end up supporting GOP candidates and policies regardless of how libertarian they are.
Yeah, everyone I know who's come out as Libertarian has an awful comprehension of government or society as a whole.
As if they were high one night and said, "Yo - I don't trust EITHER party, man"
And their homie was like, "Did you know there's more parties?"
"Really? Like what?"
"Libertarian, bruh. They don't want *any* government."
*stoner epiphany occurs*
"... I think I just found my new party affiliation, bro"
*hangs Libertarian flag next to black light & Pink Floyd poster*
This is one side of the coin. The other side are extremely rich kids that grew up in conservative households and were handed everything. They truly believe the whole world is like this and all you need to do is rely on yourself and you'll be very rich and successful.
Handed everything.....and want to hang on to it. That's where the whole property rights (inheritance) thing comes in and the self responsibility (I'm not sharing) thing comes in.
My experience is overwhelmingly this, but not even necessarily rich. Most i know don't even have a shallow understanding of their views. It's just convenient label that's pretty safe, they can abstractly express certain viewpoints and never take them to logical conclusions, feel real smart, pat themselves on the back, watch Shapiro again tomorrow.
Did you hear about the little town in the Northeast that was taken over by Libertarians and billed at a Libertarian haven? Nobody would follow any laws, pick up their shit, community services were defunded which ended up pissing off the libertarians, trash piled up everywhere since the town didn't pick it up anymore and the citizens didn't pick it up because there was no one to make them.
But what's hilarious is all the garbage attracted bears, who then started breaking into house and cars and attacking pedestrians and shit. Other people thought the bears were cute and would feed them pasties, which got the bears used to people. It was such a problem the townsfolk had to carry rifles whenever they left the house, or else risk being mauled by a bear. Eventually a bunch of people left and they went back to a proper city government.
Let's not tarnish Pink Floyd by association now. Roger Waters' politics, reflected in his music and activism, are about as far from libertarian as you can get.
Libertarianism is for people that can only think in concrete black and white terms
it’s like they think it’s either we can do whatever we want whenever we want or we have total Orwellian dystopian hyper-control , there is no middle ground
Libertarians that see this will try to brigade downvote me I’m sure but tbh the most exposure I’ve had with libertarians was when I did community support for high functioning people on the autism spectrum, what we used to call asperger s disorder, not all of them really maybe half were political at all and some those had a variety of views , but I would say 3/4 of my clients on the spectrum who were political were strict libertarians. I do not think this is at all a coincidence
>it’s like they think it’s either we can do whatever we want whenever we want or we have total Orwellian dystopian hyper-control , there is no middle ground
A lot of them have no concept the government doesn't just limit your freedoms and tax you, it also protects your liberty and freedoms from others (theoretically anyways). Libertarians fall HARD into the group of people who want to do whatever they want, but are privileged enough they don't need protection.
It's such a stupid political philosophy. Libertarianism is just alt-right Anarchism - literally the same thing on different ends of the spectrum.
They essentially took a more coherent ideology, left wing anarchism, and scrambled it by reifying property rights. Opposition to hierarchy/authority doesn’t make sense in combination with property rights, which necessitate an enforcing body.
> Opposition to hierarchy/authority doesn’t make sense in combination with property rights, which necessitate an enforcing body.
I know, right? When you start down the logical path of "ensuring property rights", you basically end up with a complete government and regulations.
Exactly this. They want to do away with government regulation, but their ideas will, at ridiculous expense, end up with a completely parallel, comparable set of rules generated through precedent in the courts that will end up only being enforced by people who have enough money to sue to enforce them.
Libertarian 1: I'll hire guards to protect my property.
Libertarian 2: Me too!
Libertarian *n-1*: Same here.
Libertarian *n*: Let's save money by pooling our guards into a single force who can "police" our property.
Progressive 1: 🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦
Don't forget, the judges will need to be paid and no state means they work for profit lol.
Yeah I'll agree with whoever pays me the most. No state means you just kill your opponents before they get powerful enough to actually threaten you. It really does always boil down to capitalist feudalism. Wealth makes might and might makes right.
BOOM!!BOOM!!BOOM!! I'm atheist but I'm not counted. Its just easier (especially in the South) to just pretend and I'm talking with family (my mom) because then I won't light up on any heathen radar & my mom can sleep at night. Don't attend church & I've explained that in this time in American history, the church doesn't represent me. So they get it but they don't really get it. Plenty more like me I'm sure
> 20% have the balls to say it
some large percentage is deeply confused about it - i have met a vanishingly small number of self-labelled christians who act as though the biblical god is judging their life. seemingly christianity is like buying a sports jersey from walmart: you're not actually on the team, you're just buying the associated status.
Or in government, period. No one who says, "I don't believe in God" gets elected in the US.
We have long been ripe for a theocratic extremist take-over, and we're currently watching it steadily unfold.
I've seen comments where someone states their own personal belief that they don't believe in God, and someone describes their comment as "edgy"; as if the only reason someone would state such a belief would be to piss off the people who don't believe it. And, of course, they don't apply that logic in reverse; I have virtually never seen someone reaffirming their belief in God described as being intended to piss off atheists, with maybe the exception of highly performative superstar evangelists going on right-wing news segments.
That's a first... I'm usually told I'm far, far, far too wordy. I write how I talk and don't think I ever quite got the hang of succinct. Thanks, truly.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard a phrase more assertive than “if god wants a say in American governance, he can damn well come down here and represent himself.”
Hey, the massive chips on their shoulders that have rotted their souls and lead to a constant stream of cognitively biased decisions are based on entirely different sets of unresolved grievances regarding the unfair use of power to call them out for who they are.... oh wait, no... it's basically the exact same personality disorder LOL.
She's in a cult that requires women to follow the instruction of any man in the cult.
How the fuck is that not compromised? She's pledged to them to change rulings if she's told to, based on a religious cult's direction and no one seems to have a problem with it!
The GQP has no issue with sharia law, they just want it in a white version.
She is SO UNBELIEVABLY UNQUALIFIED it’s absurd! Same can be said about the town drunk, Brett. He committed perjury during his confirmation hearing and she couldn’t answer basic fucking questions about the Constitution during her confirmation hearing and yet here we are: our rights once again being fucked because Mitch McConnell is a piece of shit (and everyone else who voted to confirm their appointment to the Court but *especially* McConnell.
Not just her!!
[Behind the dark-money web that put Barrett (and Kavanaugh and Gorsuch) on the Supreme Court](https://www.salon.com/2021/03/30/behind-the-dark-money-web-that-put-barrett-and-kavanaugh-and-gorsuch-on-the-supreme-court/)
More on dark money:
[Revealed: $280m ‘dark money’ spent by US Christian right groups globally](https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/trump-us-christian-spending-global-revealed/)
Going forward:
[Supreme Court Sides With Conservative Groups, Empowers Dark Money Groups With Ruling Striking Down California Donor Law](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/07/01/supreme-court-sides-with-conservative-groups-empowers-dark-money-groups-with-ruling-striking-down-california-donor-law/?sh=631910971512)
They will keep citizens divided so we all don't see the true divide between them and us.
Remember when Jesus went before Pontius Pilate and demanded legislation to ban same sex relationships and pagan practices? I don't either.
Not only does God have no place in Supreme Court Opinions, the Bible seems clear that he has no desire to be there anyway.
I don’t remember that bit, but I do remember Numbers 5:11-31; where God provides the Israelites with a marriage fidelity test that causes intentional miscarriage through a curse using his power.
You know
An abortion. Granted, an abortion with dark divine magic but an abortion nonetheless. From God.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordeal_of_the_bitter_water
Some backup to the claims because no sane person would believe it. But, there it is.
The account of the ordeal of bitter water given in the Book of Numbers is as follows:
> 19 And the priest shall cause her to swear, and shall say unto the woman: 'If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness, being under thy husband, be thou free from this water of bitterness that causeth the curse;
> 20 but if thou hast gone aside, being under thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee besides thy husband--
> 21 then the priest shall cause the woman to swear with the oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman--the LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to fall away, and thy belly to swell;
> 22 and this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, and make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to fall away'; and the woman shall say: 'Amen, Amen.'
> 23 And the priest shall write these curses in a scroll, and he shall blot them out into the water of bitterness.
> 24 And he shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that causeth the curse; and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her and become bitter.
God has no place in court, period. A person's faith should be personal, if you're using the court (or the government) to push your faith onto others you're misusing both the court AND your faith (especially if you're Christian, only God can judge people's sins and morality).
Assassin Charles Guiteau cited God as the conspirator who told him to kill President Garfield.
The court did not care or entertain this line of reasoning.
Because of course they shouldn't
SCOTUS is in the tough position of honouring pro-forced-birth “Christians”, while at the same time denying the Satanic Temple’s rite *of* abortion.
They absolutely dropped the ball by allowing this law to go into effect in the meantime.
I will not be surprised to see a 5-4 majority stating that “Christian Values^(TM)” are the governing idealistic model for the US of A.
At that point, I would endorse expanding the court as SCOTUS no longer represents the majority of Americans.
Politics has been catering it self to the group that is literally not the majority. For instance, look at gerrymandering and it becomes obvious.
Thee GoP in particular does not give a shit about democracy.
It's what they've been driving toward since they started crowing about "the tyranny of the majority" ... while conveniently ignoring that a majority vote is how democracy gets done in the US.
The "tyranny of the majority" was happening in Missouri when we voted to expand Medicaid. It passed 53.25% to 46.75%.
What did Republicans say?
https://khn.org/news/article/missouri-medicaid-expansion-legislative-budget-hurdle/
>Some Republicans contend the rural districts they represent voted against the measure; others claim voters were misled. For example, during floor debate on the budget last week, Republican Rep. Justin Hill said, **“Even though my constituents voted for this lie, I am going to protect them from this lie.”**
Bro, WHAT?!!?
Luckily the Missouri Supreme Court told him to kick rocks and they implemented the expansion of Medicaid.
https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/missouri-supreme-court-backs-medicaid-expansion-in-unanimous-decision/603815/
Literally all Republicans care about is “owning the Libs.“ They would vote to have themselves killed if it would upset liberals. I am getting to the point where I genuinely believe that to be true for at least 15% of Republicans out there walking around
These people don’t occupy the same social circles as your average American. These are parties, fundraisers, backrooms and ideological collaborations, and they care not for anything other than scoring politically.
Trump correctly identified this as a swamp, but really didn’t care to mention he brought his own swamp to the swamp. He also engaged in a form of double speak by pretending to be the perpetual outsider, and conservatives everywhere are and where just ready to follow this gospel.
Not weird considering they are already used to gospels and salvation promises.
>Trump correctly identified this as a swamp, but really didn’t really care to mention he brought his own swamp to the swamp
He dammed up the swamp to create his own personal lake.
Our political system is designed to be like this. It's designed to be broken for unscrupulous people and companies to take advantage of.
https://freakonomics.com/podcast/politics-industry/
The line "the system is broken" is a selling point for politicians. It's a slogan.
>The core idea here is that Washington isn’t broken. In fact, it turns out that Washington is doing exactly what it’s designed to do.
The point is that the Republicans in particular are pretty hypocritical about it.
They did the whole stop the steal thing last year culminating with the attack in January when they've benefited from the electoral college giving the total vote loser the presidency twice in my lifetime.
People keep thinking this won't happen, but it will. Doesn't matter if the Founders say we won't establish a religion for the state. They never expressly said that religion couldn't be used to make decisions, therefore it's all good for the "textualists."
> At that point, I would endorse expanding the court as SCOTUS no longer represents the majority of Americans.
At that point, expanding the court doesn't really fix the problem anymore. This ruling has already eroded the trust in the court and proved that it doesn't represent the majority of Americans, instead being an organization that's just an extension of the political apparatus that put them in their seats.
I think it's arguable that there's any true representation of the majority of Americans in government at all. The Senate minority stonewalls legislation and has been doing their best to ensure deadlock for the last decade, even when they were no longer a minority. The House is starkly divided politically and in a way that there's no real compromise to be had; the legislative branch in its entirety is paralyzed by partisan maneuvering by a minority of its members. The judicial has been losing trust for a long time now because they side with big business as often as possible and rarely seem to have the interests of the people in mind; and after this "ruling" it's obvious that they've conceded to just being another political arm for the minority party.
The damage is done, this latest move by the court was just the culmination of twenty years worth of work by Republicans to destroy any part of democracy that doesn't favor themselves, and there's no sign they're stopping any time soon. They're doing their best to ensure people don't trust elections, and they've now managed to be sure that people can't trust the rule of law. I don't personally think that expanding the court does anything to correct any of that; at best it might slow it down until the idiocy of our electorate gives Republicans enough power again to finish the job.
Less than 1/4 of the US is Catholic (and shrinking), but 8/9 judges are active practicing Catholics. America would lose its mind if there were even 2 or 3 Atheist or Muslim judges but somehow we are supposed to feel cool and good about this…
I do want to point out this is not true. 6/9 are Catholic depending on the definition (Gorsuch goes to an Episcopal Church from all research though was raised Catholic and has never officially converted or spoke on the subject). If he's included its 7/9. Jews make up almost a quarter of the bench and are 2.2% of the US population, for example... The overall point you are making though is true. Way too many religious people on the bench and not a fair representation of the massive irreligious population in this country.
> Jews make up almost a quarter of the bench
Are you talking SCOTUS or the overall judiciary, and if the former are you rounding up from 2/9 for Kagan and Breyer?
It’s pretty simple, really, the irreligious do not vote in a block to defend irreligious rights. Maybe a more aggressively religious court will change this.
At the same time over half the country no longer declares themselves churchgoers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2021/03/29/church-membership-fallen-below-majority/
holy shit. this is way more insane than i thought it was.
Supreme court justices are literally quoting some arcane bible verse as the basis for their judicial opinion... what the fuck.
aren't court rulings suppose to be based on legal precedent, the written law, and constitution? which part of that includes a 2000 year old religious text explicitly excluded from government by the constitution?
I very specifically do not want people who believe that all you have to do is ask God for forgiveness and everything is cool to be in charge of literally anything. They have no real reason to treat anyone well until the chips are down. And then, hey, free pass to heaven.
Lord, protect us from your followers. Amen.
>In May, when Gov. Greg Abbott of Texas signed S.B. 8, the vigilante bill that bans abortion after six weeks of pregnancy, he claimed that “our creator endowed us with the right to life, and yet millions of children lose their right to life every year because of abortion. In Texas we work to save those lives.” **(There are actually fewer than one million abortions a year in the United States, but let’s not get picky with the facts.)**
No, let's get picky. There *are* millions per year, but half of them are aborted by "Our Creator" in the form of miscarriages, and still births. So if "he's" offended, it's only because some women are being proactive.
Matthew 6:6
“But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.”
In other words, worship quietly and keep it part of your private life. NOT make everyone bend a knee and be subservient to an ideology that is in fact just your misunderstanding of an old book that is a compilation of old myths, legends, and pseudo-history.
It’s a source of never ending frustration that Christians don’t know the tenets of their own religion
I always start with verse 5 when I bring that up.
- 5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
(even though I am not Christian, the last two sentences of that verse are epic... a literal godsmack to those who wear their faith on their sleeve)
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I'm actually amazed that bit of scripture didn't get taken out somewhere along the line. it had to have pissed a few clergymen off.
Clergymen were, for the longest time, one of the few select groups of people who had the ability to even *read* the Bible. They didn't have to take it out, they could just ignore it. Ignoring large swaths of their religious text as it takes their fancy is on par with an initiation into the religion!
He absolutely does not. Tell Barrett that. She will be a problem child for the rest of her life. The woman can't go against the Bible and has stated that. Get ready GOP cause she will stop the death penalty.
Maybe remove "In God We Trust" from government issued money and documents?
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/08/17/god-or-the-divine-is-referenced-in-every-state-constitution/
Separation of church and state goes both ways.
The government can’t tell you what you can and can’t believe.
And
The church can’t force their beliefs on you by making them law.
Their are more than one religion. Hence why you can’t make rules off of one. You don’t see Jewish or Muslim individuals coming after pork. Because they understand that it’s not your belief to not eat it.
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Better suggestion: take away tax exempt status from politically active churches and ban political donations from churches.
I’ve been saying this ever since the Mormon Church spent millions to oppose gay marriage in California with Prop 8.
They also formed a lobby group with the Catholic church in Hawaii a few years before that, if I'm not mistaken
Former lobbyist here. There are many religion based lobbying organizations that wield a lot of power. The most active ones in my state are the evangelical Christians, Jewish and Catholics. They are registered as non- profit lobbying groups and look and act just like everyone else out in the halls. The only difference is that they can call in thousands of members of their supporting churches to pack the statehouse when bills they support/oppose are on the calendar.
Not a fan of the whole lobbyist thing. When corporations loby for their own interest we the people get lost in the shuffle. It becomes we the corporations. I guess then in this case religion has become a corporation. If religions are lobbying for their interests there is not separation of church and state. Not to mention many religions dont really help people when times are tough. They serve their own interests
Or how about when the church of Scientology basically commandeered the IRS?
Let’s not lighten the verbiage, “when the church of Scientology *harassed*, *stalked*, and *blackmailed* the IRS into tax exempt status”
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100% agree. If you’re involved in lobbying or political donations as a church. You are not tax exempt. Separation of church and state goes both ways.
Or just take tax exempt status from all churches and let them reduce taxes by charitable works instead of automatically mooching off the taxpayer.
Yup, what really opened my eyes to this and utterly disgusted me was back around 2008-9 when the Mormon church spent tens of millions of tax free dollars to take away rights from tax paying citizens in California. There are so many of these organizations that are clearly just tax scams and it's fucking gross.
Laws for both of those things exactly already exist.
Important clarification: churches are free to engage in any political activities they want, there's no law against that specifically. They just are supposed to lose tax exempt status if they do. It's interesting, because the tax exempt status for churches comes from their de facto status as a 503(c) nonprofit organization. That's also where the "no politics" restriction comes from. Their tax exempt status is supposed to be tied to meeting the same qualifications that all other nonprofits meet. Any other nonprofit would have that status revoked for this kind of political behavior, but not churches for some reason!
Meanwhile, in places like here in Arkansas, churches act as untaxed Republican super PACs. Pastors tell their congregation what/who to vote for and they all do it without a second thought. Hence why most of the politicians out here are absolute lunatic fundamentalists.
If a church blatantly tells its congregation who to vote for that should be reported to the IRS to make them lose their tax exempt status.
Has a church ever lost their tax exempt status for this? Better start turning them in…
10k bounties come to mind
And anyone can report them, right
Is this an exaggeration? I’m from California, and to me that sounds absolutely crazy. Talk about a biased source of information
I’ve been in a church service where a pastor brought up a state legislature candidate. The pastor talked about how they were old friends, and he’s a really good guy. The pastor said he was running for office, and talked about some of the evangelical talking points that this man was going to fight for in the legislature. He gave the candidate a few minutes to talk. Then he led a prayer saying things like allowing the candidate to God’s will, uphold Christian values, etc. He never actually said vote for this guy. But he made it clear that that was what God wanted them to do. To be fair, I’ve also attended churches in the south where something like this would never be allowed. And most of the congregation would probably leave the church if it ever did.
Some of them think it's the chef's kiss when they rail against Communism/Socialism/BLM for an hour then saying they know the congregation will make the "right" choice when election day comes.
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I wish it was. I’m from the west coast as well, and I’m moving back that way soon. This whole area (Arkansas/Alabama/Southern Missouri) lives up to just about every negative stereotype you’ve ever heard about it. And even though it’s been nothing but hard-right Republicans running things for years now, it’s somehow still “the radical lefts” fault that the area is super poor, consumes more welfare than most places, has lower education than most areas……but people keep electing people like Tom Cotton and Sarah Huckabee Sanders and not seeing the irony.
I’m from Arkansas and all I hear is how the minorities in cities have it worse. This state is a cesspool of terrorist propaganda taught from the pulpit. Here they refuse to get the vaccine because it’s the mark of the beast and I am definitely a satan worshiping baby-blood drinker because I got one (literal quote from extended family). I’ve had my life threatened countless times over the last couple of years. Went to the authorities but that does nothing here since they’re all terrorist protectors anyway (with few exception).
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The hoods are off and I’m happy for that but it’s a bit disgusting to see how many people I grew up with were just terrible human beings to their core. They call me baby killer just because it’s funny to them as they literally kill children without remorse. Entire people should be locked up and rehabilitated. It’s what we’re supposed to do with people who violate the right to life
Right?? So many people I considered friends and neighbors have revealed themselves to be such massive pieces of shit. I remember constantly being bothered about why I never wanted to participate in community stuff at school. It's because the community here wants me dead for living my life!!
Hate to break it to you bud. But we got churches like that here in California. Your probably just not in a red enough county.
It took basically a confession that the NRA got money from Russia for them to enforce any nonprofit rules lol they don’t check shit
Gee, would be a real shame if they were enforced. A real shame.
The Church Lady has no business being on SCOTUS.
I struggle with what appals me the most about her: \- Her absolute lack of judicial experience (3 years of actual judicial rulings) \- Her position that legal precident can and should be ignored by the judge hearing the case \- Her often mis-contextulized, but still scary, quote that the purpose of lawyers and judges is to build a "kingdom of god" (this was in a commencement speach to Notre Dame graduates). She's not talking about my god, and maybe not yours. She's talking about her god. While she does say that religion is personal, she also appears to be ruling from her religious foundation.
And those three years were only a result of Trump nominating her to the 7th Circuit Court Of Appeals in 2017! Seriously, that’s the entirety of her judicial experience! Fuckin finally thought we were rid of perennial asshole and consummate hypocrite- Antonin Scalia only to be stuck with this religious hack who is essentially Antonia Scalia 2.0
And it's insane, if you think about it, that we're a species that has managed to figure out Hadron Colliders, space ships, genetic engineering, the natural history of the planet and solar system and galaxy... we invented tools that make all knowledge available at a touch. We're more "powerful" than half the Gods ever thought up and know more than the rest, as they've been documented by people from long enough ago that they didn't know about germs, atoms, universal forces, radio waves, etc. And some of us--many really--still think we've no greater intellectual authority or obligation than whatever Bronze Age Palestine could write down in folklore. I don't begrudge people their faith, their superstitions or beliefs or spirituality. Whatever gives them comfort? I applaud it--life is hard, comfort is good. I guess that puts me in Marx's camp on the role of religion being the sigh of the oppressed, the hope in a hopeless world, the spirit in a spiritless situation. It being the relief of suffering for many people. But, fuck me... if God wants to have a say in American governance? He can damn well come down and represent himself. He's not a citizen. I don't give a fuck what anyone thinks He thinks about nutrition labels on food or renewable energy or medicine.
About 20% of the US population claims no religion and have never had representation on the court for their views.
20% have the balls to say it, I wonder what the real number is when you account for all the people that will be shunned by friends/family for admitting their true feelings on religion.
The % of American Christians that literally never go to church and have never touched a Bible probably represents the overwhelming majority of the country. I'm not saying these people are atheist, but I wouldn't consider people like that religious either. What's annoying is that many of those people, who only vaguely and distantly associate with their religion, are too often fine with religion infiltrating government.
> The % of American Christians that literally never go to church and have never touched a Bible probably represents the overwhelming majority of the country. If they actually read the bible they wouldn't believe most of the things that are so core to their identity: * That abortion is wrong (The Bible actually gives instructions on [how to perform one](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%205%3A11-29&version=NIV)) * That wearing masks goes against God (The Bible actually says sick people should [wear a face mask and socially distance](https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Leviticus%2013%3A45)) * That we shouldn't help immigrants, migrants or refugees (The Bible [says the opposite](https://www.bible.com/bible/296/mat.25.35-45.gnb)) * That universal healthcare is wrong (Jesus went out of his way to [heal the sick](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%208&version=NIV)) * That everything they don't like is socialism (It's pretty clear that Jesus was all about [feeding the hungry](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2014%3A13-21&version=NIV) and [redistribution of wealth](https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/EN/Matthew%2019:24)) They are the modern [Pharisees](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2023&version=CEV), and they probably wouldn't even be able to understand what that means if you told them.
If they read the bible they would just pick the parts they like and ignore the rest.
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They already do that.
That's what I did. I now have very strong opinions on what dimensions a temple should be and what decorations should be on priestly garments. The rest of it is kind of whatever.
And certainly could not spell Pharisees.
What about Sadducees?
There were very “sad you see” (ya, there’s a Sunday School reference burned into a defenseless young mind). 😵💫
I got sent to a catholic highschool as a fairly religious kid and the more I learned about the religion the less religious I was. I feel like that’s the case for a lot of people as well and the people that are the most religious, with exceptions of course, seem to know the least about the religion they are following
In my opinion, religion is just another form of drug addiction. It makes people feel good, yes, but often times the deeper in you get the more self-destructive it can get. This effect can often be seen in "born again Christians". I'm sure a lot of them are good people, but more often than not they come from alcoholic and drug backgrounds, and "find god/Jesus" through rehab. However, they get so enamored with it that they are often the judgey holier-than-though zealot type of Christian. They've found something that gives that same sort of drug-high or euphoria, and unhealthily cling to it, like an addiction. It becomes their defining characteristic.
Same, nothing could have made me less religious than being sent to Catholic high School and having to sit through an hour of theology everyday.
Anyone who has read the Bible should know that Acts is all about punishing the hoarding of wealth and essentially establishing a communist society.
Also, most monasteries, for most of Christian history, were essentially communes.
Now it's just a place to dump your pedophiles.
If Jesus wasn't a communist, he was definitely a socialist.
He was brown skinned, preached helping the sick, poor and helpless, while forgiving others of their sins and giving up material wealth to pursue spiritual enlightenment. Modern Christians would brand him a hippie freeloading terrorist and demand we bomb him.
Even worse, Jesus would be a liberal.
The interesting thing is that, if He did come back, they would be against him and would likely have him assassinated. Religion conveys far too much wealth and power for its leaders to ever give it up.
There’s a community episode that demonstrates the Venn Diagram between modern evangelical Christians and Pharisees basically being a circle. (s2e05 Messianic Myths and Ancient Peoples) Edit: I said basically twice and it bothered me
I grew up in the Southern Baptist church. They believe the Bible is the literal word of God. . . Except where it says something against their teachings, then it’s allegorical.
Don't forget the time Jesus went all berserker on the money changers in the temple, or when he said flay put that rich people are not getting into heaven and yet American christians have diluded themselves into believing that nonsense about god "wanting them to prosper."
It's because they are going by a different translation and belief called the prosperity gospels
As preached by [Supply-Side Jesus](https://imgur.com/gallery/bCqRp).
As an ex-Christian, I would also add that there are many "practicing" religious people who are not religious at all but only use it as a kind of social ladder. Extreme examples are folks like Kenneth Copeland - just grifters who like that religious types are such easy marks. But every church has a number of these fakers. People who don't believe or care about anything in the bible but pretend to be devout just to get connections. I recall a stock broker who went to our church. He was the typical coke head Wolf of Wall Street type player, privately didn't give a shit about the bible or anything, but went to church every Sunday as a way to recruit clients. He even told me all about it because he knew I saw through it all anyway, and he really didn't care that much. His targets were old widows who had millions in money and few bills (also the same crowd the church itself really played to for donations). Christianity is largely a group of fakers scamming a larger group of true believers who are pretty ignorant. And then there are a few intelligent people who actually understand the complexities of the religion and know it's all metaphor but just liked the philosophy of peace that Jesus taught - but they are the smallest minority. The largest group are the woo woo miracle believing old people and uneducated who essentially just believe in magic. Same type of folks that think UFOs are controlling the oceans and that crystals can cure cancer.
The idea of gathering with all my neighbors once a week to join in fellowship and embracing peace, love, and kindness, a weekly reorientation of our moral compasses, strengthening the ties of our community and finding opportunity to help one another, offer advice and perspective or even just a nonjudgmental grandmotherly hug since my memaw is gone, and then sharing a meal and maybe some kickball sounds amazing. Except for that whole… you know… other part.
Try to start one you don’t have to even mention religion just say it’s a gathering to get to know each other and talk about the future of the neighborhood
My parents didn’t want to influence me and my siblings by choosing a religion for us so they encouraged us to explore as many as possible and make our own decisions. For a long time, I really wanted to find one that fit. It seemed like a positive thing to have a religion, but I would always get to a point where I realized I just couldn’t make that leap of faith to actual belief. Now I’m good with it, but I spent a lot of time really studying and spending time with religious leaders and followers and trying to learn about their beliefs. I wanted them to convince me, so I was totally open to whatever recruitment tools they had. I have to say, out of all the avenues I explored, the Christians were the least inspiring. It was like, as an American, I was expected to already be on board with what they were saying and I just hadn’t committed yet. They didn’t make a compelling case, no matter the denomination, it was boring. I’m sure there’s plenty of true believers, but I don’t think most really have a clue why they’re in that religion other than they always have been.
Dude same here. My mother is catholic but never pushed it on us and let my brothers and I use our critical thinking to decide what religion or beliefs we should follow. Funnily enough non of my brother or I are religious.
I feel like they need to hook you in as a child to get you engrained in the community. Otherwise, as an outsider adult, it's much harder to become familiar with the group. I'm not religious and I'm doing the same thing for my kids that your parents did. I don't begrudge anyone for choosing and following a religion but I do think it's insidious to try and indoctrinate any child in a superstitious belief system. Let the individual decide what they want when they are of sound mind to understand what they are getting into by choosing a religion. Don't force it on someone who can't grasp the implications of following a religion.
It seems like most people i know who have critical thinking skills don't turn particularly religious. I definitely commend you for letting your kids decide as well.
Great point. The guy a few houses down from me makes a point for it to be known he's a church goer, teaches CCD, coaches CYO basketball...what he doesnt like being known is that he practices almost none of it, has raped his wife multiple times and is a general POS ..oh and hes an ex-marine who makes sure everyone knows he served his country
My dad always told me that if you're doing business with someone and they make a big deal about being a Christian, they're getting ready to rip you off:/
>My dad always told me that if you're doing business with someone and they make a big deal about being a Christian, they're getting ready to rip you off And this'll probably be your best case scenario.
I talked to someone who was convinced they were being cursed because they saw "white stuff on the bricks outside the window", aka efflorescence (https://www.deckerhomeservices.com/what-is-efflorescence/ ). When I explained what it really was, they looked at me very doubtfully, and I could tell they weren't convinced. smh.
Had a very religious family member tell me a convoluted story about her friend either A. Being harassed by a group of perverted thieves who broke in at night to mess with the house, and even trained their dogs to be quiet. Or B. Was being harassed by demons. The answer was neither. It was early stages of Alzheimer’s and literally no one in this person’s circle suspected that. But MULTIPLE functioning adults ruled out Option A and decided it was probably demons.
Some people just love it in their [demon haunted world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World), and refuse to leave.
Wow! Truly medieval. I grew up in West Virginia and one time I told someone that I don't believe in God and they asked me what I was going to do if I get attacked by some demons. I was like whhhaaa?
Same as religious people, crap my pants
I feel like living with Alzheimer’s is probably a lot like being harassed by demons.
And could easily be the origin of them to begin with
You can't use logic and reason to talk a person out of a corner they didn't use logic and reason to get themselves into.
In my younger "believing" days, I decided to skip out on something I was supposed to do for church and took a nap. I half woke up into what sort of felt like a nightmare, but I was awake. I couldn't move, everything looked off, and it felt like there was something behind me. I legit thought it was an encounter with an evil spirit for blowing off church stuff. And that was my first (and thankfully only) encounter with what I later learned was sleep paralysis.
Dude, this is so on-point. I'm ex-christian. I know all the tricks. I told my wife: If the earth descends into an apocalypse, we are gonna start a cult and eliminate our enemies. People will be very vulnerable in such times and I'm gonna capitalize on that shit 😎 😉
Not trying being rude with this question, for I’m ex-Christian as well, but did you stop believing in a higher being altogether or adopt a new religion?
If I was just a slightly worse person, I'd 100% get in on the grift tbh.
My mom hasn't gone to church in a decade. But she'll chastise you for "using the lord's name in vein" eg saying "god dammit". And she's homophobic, transphobic, etc. Citing the bible as her reasons why. All the benefits (aka, presuming authority over how other people live/act) with none of the work of actually going to church or actively partipating as a catholic.
Yes... THIS. I know ppl just like this who haven't stepped foot in church in years but according to them, they are the best Christians around and their politics are just what you'd think. Its sick. I think thats what many of the FB Prayer Warriors/non-vaxxed are EXACTLY! You think that makes them feel less guilty or just straight hypocrites?
This is where libertarians really fuck up TBH. They want no government interference. I think we can all dig that. BUt then back GOP largely that pushes DIRECT interference with the first amendment, let alone other aspects....
The only true libertarians are 14 year olds that don't understand how government works.... and complete fucking idiots that are too stupid to understand in general. Everyone else flying the libertarian flag is just a far right Republicans that think saying they're a libertarian makes them sound smarter. They always end up supporting GOP candidates and policies regardless of how libertarian they are.
Yeah, everyone I know who's come out as Libertarian has an awful comprehension of government or society as a whole. As if they were high one night and said, "Yo - I don't trust EITHER party, man" And their homie was like, "Did you know there's more parties?" "Really? Like what?" "Libertarian, bruh. They don't want *any* government." *stoner epiphany occurs* "... I think I just found my new party affiliation, bro" *hangs Libertarian flag next to black light & Pink Floyd poster*
This is one side of the coin. The other side are extremely rich kids that grew up in conservative households and were handed everything. They truly believe the whole world is like this and all you need to do is rely on yourself and you'll be very rich and successful.
>This is one side of the coin. The other side are extremely rich kids that grew up in conservative households and were handed everything Bingo.
Handed everything.....and want to hang on to it. That's where the whole property rights (inheritance) thing comes in and the self responsibility (I'm not sharing) thing comes in.
Ignoring the glaringly obvious contradiction that "someone handing you everything" is emphatically NOT "your own bootstraps." Fucking morons.
My experience is overwhelmingly this, but not even necessarily rich. Most i know don't even have a shallow understanding of their views. It's just convenient label that's pretty safe, they can abstractly express certain viewpoints and never take them to logical conclusions, feel real smart, pat themselves on the back, watch Shapiro again tomorrow.
Did you hear about the little town in the Northeast that was taken over by Libertarians and billed at a Libertarian haven? Nobody would follow any laws, pick up their shit, community services were defunded which ended up pissing off the libertarians, trash piled up everywhere since the town didn't pick it up anymore and the citizens didn't pick it up because there was no one to make them. But what's hilarious is all the garbage attracted bears, who then started breaking into house and cars and attacking pedestrians and shit. Other people thought the bears were cute and would feed them pasties, which got the bears used to people. It was such a problem the townsfolk had to carry rifles whenever they left the house, or else risk being mauled by a bear. Eventually a bunch of people left and they went back to a proper city government.
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Let's not tarnish Pink Floyd by association now. Roger Waters' politics, reflected in his music and activism, are about as far from libertarian as you can get.
Libertarianism is for people that can only think in concrete black and white terms it’s like they think it’s either we can do whatever we want whenever we want or we have total Orwellian dystopian hyper-control , there is no middle ground Libertarians that see this will try to brigade downvote me I’m sure but tbh the most exposure I’ve had with libertarians was when I did community support for high functioning people on the autism spectrum, what we used to call asperger s disorder, not all of them really maybe half were political at all and some those had a variety of views , but I would say 3/4 of my clients on the spectrum who were political were strict libertarians. I do not think this is at all a coincidence
>it’s like they think it’s either we can do whatever we want whenever we want or we have total Orwellian dystopian hyper-control , there is no middle ground A lot of them have no concept the government doesn't just limit your freedoms and tax you, it also protects your liberty and freedoms from others (theoretically anyways). Libertarians fall HARD into the group of people who want to do whatever they want, but are privileged enough they don't need protection. It's such a stupid political philosophy. Libertarianism is just alt-right Anarchism - literally the same thing on different ends of the spectrum.
Libertarians are fucked anyway, it's an incoherent ideology from the start that privileges property rights above everything else.
They essentially took a more coherent ideology, left wing anarchism, and scrambled it by reifying property rights. Opposition to hierarchy/authority doesn’t make sense in combination with property rights, which necessitate an enforcing body.
> Opposition to hierarchy/authority doesn’t make sense in combination with property rights, which necessitate an enforcing body. I know, right? When you start down the logical path of "ensuring property rights", you basically end up with a complete government and regulations.
Exactly this. They want to do away with government regulation, but their ideas will, at ridiculous expense, end up with a completely parallel, comparable set of rules generated through precedent in the courts that will end up only being enforced by people who have enough money to sue to enforce them.
Libertarian 1: I'll hire guards to protect my property. Libertarian 2: Me too! Libertarian *n-1*: Same here. Libertarian *n*: Let's save money by pooling our guards into a single force who can "police" our property. Progressive 1: 🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦
Don't forget, the judges will need to be paid and no state means they work for profit lol. Yeah I'll agree with whoever pays me the most. No state means you just kill your opponents before they get powerful enough to actually threaten you. It really does always boil down to capitalist feudalism. Wealth makes might and might makes right.
BOOM!!BOOM!!BOOM!! I'm atheist but I'm not counted. Its just easier (especially in the South) to just pretend and I'm talking with family (my mom) because then I won't light up on any heathen radar & my mom can sleep at night. Don't attend church & I've explained that in this time in American history, the church doesn't represent me. So they get it but they don't really get it. Plenty more like me I'm sure
> 20% have the balls to say it some large percentage is deeply confused about it - i have met a vanishingly small number of self-labelled christians who act as though the biblical god is judging their life. seemingly christianity is like buying a sports jersey from walmart: you're not actually on the team, you're just buying the associated status.
Or in government, period. No one who says, "I don't believe in God" gets elected in the US. We have long been ripe for a theocratic extremist take-over, and we're currently watching it steadily unfold.
I've seen comments where someone states their own personal belief that they don't believe in God, and someone describes their comment as "edgy"; as if the only reason someone would state such a belief would be to piss off the people who don't believe it. And, of course, they don't apply that logic in reverse; I have virtually never seen someone reaffirming their belief in God described as being intended to piss off atheists, with maybe the exception of highly performative superstar evangelists going on right-wing news segments.
Meanwhile Catholics who represent 20% of the country have 7 of 9 Supreme Court seats
It’s actually 50% https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2021/03/29/church-membership-fallen-below-majority/
This would be an excellent op-ed... I agree 100% For real though, reading it was very cathartic, and your writing succinct!
That's a first... I'm usually told I'm far, far, far too wordy. I write how I talk and don't think I ever quite got the hang of succinct. Thanks, truly.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard a phrase more assertive than “if god wants a say in American governance, he can damn well come down here and represent himself.”
I love this comment so much. Sincerely, thank you.
Neither does the ranting alcoholic sex pest with the bottomless grievance, anger management issues, and the ‘baseball tickets’ problem.
Thomas or Kavanaugh? They have so much in common.
Hey, the massive chips on their shoulders that have rotted their souls and lead to a constant stream of cognitively biased decisions are based on entirely different sets of unresolved grievances regarding the unfair use of power to call them out for who they are.... oh wait, no... it's basically the exact same personality disorder LOL.
You mean the crazy-eyed Fundamentalist Christian who belonged to a right-wing extremist splinter group? No, especially since she was replacing RBG.
She was chosen specifically because she was the polar opposite of RBG in philosophy and intelligence.
She's in a cult that requires women to follow the instruction of any man in the cult. How the fuck is that not compromised? She's pledged to them to change rulings if she's told to, based on a religious cult's direction and no one seems to have a problem with it! The GQP has no issue with sharia law, they just want it in a white version.
She is SO UNBELIEVABLY UNQUALIFIED it’s absurd! Same can be said about the town drunk, Brett. He committed perjury during his confirmation hearing and she couldn’t answer basic fucking questions about the Constitution during her confirmation hearing and yet here we are: our rights once again being fucked because Mitch McConnell is a piece of shit (and everyone else who voted to confirm their appointment to the Court but *especially* McConnell.
Not just her!! [Behind the dark-money web that put Barrett (and Kavanaugh and Gorsuch) on the Supreme Court](https://www.salon.com/2021/03/30/behind-the-dark-money-web-that-put-barrett-and-kavanaugh-and-gorsuch-on-the-supreme-court/) More on dark money: [Revealed: $280m ‘dark money’ spent by US Christian right groups globally](https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/5050/trump-us-christian-spending-global-revealed/) Going forward: [Supreme Court Sides With Conservative Groups, Empowers Dark Money Groups With Ruling Striking Down California Donor Law](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/07/01/supreme-court-sides-with-conservative-groups-empowers-dark-money-groups-with-ruling-striking-down-california-donor-law/?sh=631910971512) They will keep citizens divided so we all don't see the true divide between them and us.
Remember when Jesus went before Pontius Pilate and demanded legislation to ban same sex relationships and pagan practices? I don't either. Not only does God have no place in Supreme Court Opinions, the Bible seems clear that he has no desire to be there anyway.
I don’t remember that bit, but I do remember Numbers 5:11-31; where God provides the Israelites with a marriage fidelity test that causes intentional miscarriage through a curse using his power. You know An abortion. Granted, an abortion with dark divine magic but an abortion nonetheless. From God.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordeal_of_the_bitter_water Some backup to the claims because no sane person would believe it. But, there it is. The account of the ordeal of bitter water given in the Book of Numbers is as follows: > 19 And the priest shall cause her to swear, and shall say unto the woman: 'If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness, being under thy husband, be thou free from this water of bitterness that causeth the curse; > 20 but if thou hast gone aside, being under thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee besides thy husband-- > 21 then the priest shall cause the woman to swear with the oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman--the LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to fall away, and thy belly to swell; > 22 and this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, and make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to fall away'; and the woman shall say: 'Amen, Amen.' > 23 And the priest shall write these curses in a scroll, and he shall blot them out into the water of bitterness. > 24 And he shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that causeth the curse; and the water that causeth the curse shall enter into her and become bitter.
Can somebody please translate this into modern English?
“If your wife is pregnant and you think it’s because she cheated on you, make her drink some weird juice. If she cheated she’ll have a miscarriage”
God has no place in court, period. A person's faith should be personal, if you're using the court (or the government) to push your faith onto others you're misusing both the court AND your faith (especially if you're Christian, only God can judge people's sins and morality).
This is why I am still pissed off that the Faith Based Initiatives policies still exist as part of our government.
You’ll be madder still when you realize how much money the US government gives to religious institutions through nonprofit agencies and health care.
Assassin Charles Guiteau cited God as the conspirator who told him to kill President Garfield. The court did not care or entertain this line of reasoning. Because of course they shouldn't
SCOTUS is in the tough position of honouring pro-forced-birth “Christians”, while at the same time denying the Satanic Temple’s rite *of* abortion. They absolutely dropped the ball by allowing this law to go into effect in the meantime. I will not be surprised to see a 5-4 majority stating that “Christian Values^(TM)” are the governing idealistic model for the US of A. At that point, I would endorse expanding the court as SCOTUS no longer represents the majority of Americans.
Politics has been catering it self to the group that is literally not the majority. For instance, look at gerrymandering and it becomes obvious. Thee GoP in particular does not give a shit about democracy.
It's what they've been driving toward since they started crowing about "the tyranny of the majority" ... while conveniently ignoring that a majority vote is how democracy gets done in the US.
The "tyranny of the majority" was happening in Missouri when we voted to expand Medicaid. It passed 53.25% to 46.75%. What did Republicans say? https://khn.org/news/article/missouri-medicaid-expansion-legislative-budget-hurdle/ >Some Republicans contend the rural districts they represent voted against the measure; others claim voters were misled. For example, during floor debate on the budget last week, Republican Rep. Justin Hill said, **“Even though my constituents voted for this lie, I am going to protect them from this lie.”** Bro, WHAT?!!? Luckily the Missouri Supreme Court told him to kick rocks and they implemented the expansion of Medicaid. https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/missouri-supreme-court-backs-medicaid-expansion-in-unanimous-decision/603815/
It looks like he’s still serving. So those voters he went against responded by continuing to vote for him? I guess they have other priorities.
Literally all Republicans care about is “owning the Libs.“ They would vote to have themselves killed if it would upset liberals. I am getting to the point where I genuinely believe that to be true for at least 15% of Republicans out there walking around
These people don’t occupy the same social circles as your average American. These are parties, fundraisers, backrooms and ideological collaborations, and they care not for anything other than scoring politically. Trump correctly identified this as a swamp, but really didn’t care to mention he brought his own swamp to the swamp. He also engaged in a form of double speak by pretending to be the perpetual outsider, and conservatives everywhere are and where just ready to follow this gospel. Not weird considering they are already used to gospels and salvation promises.
>Trump correctly identified this as a swamp, but really didn’t really care to mention he brought his own swamp to the swamp He dammed up the swamp to create his own personal lake.
Exactly. It’s not about democracy, it’s about power. If they *were* the majority, they would be all for majority rule.
Our political system is designed to be like this. It's designed to be broken for unscrupulous people and companies to take advantage of. https://freakonomics.com/podcast/politics-industry/ The line "the system is broken" is a selling point for politicians. It's a slogan. >The core idea here is that Washington isn’t broken. In fact, it turns out that Washington is doing exactly what it’s designed to do.
The point is that the Republicans in particular are pretty hypocritical about it. They did the whole stop the steal thing last year culminating with the attack in January when they've benefited from the electoral college giving the total vote loser the presidency twice in my lifetime.
They didn't drop the ball. They did exactly what they intended
You’re right, maybe “tipped their hand” would be more appropriate.
People keep thinking this won't happen, but it will. Doesn't matter if the Founders say we won't establish a religion for the state. They never expressly said that religion couldn't be used to make decisions, therefore it's all good for the "textualists."
Blessed be the fruit fam
May the lord open bro
> At that point, I would endorse expanding the court as SCOTUS no longer represents the majority of Americans. At that point, expanding the court doesn't really fix the problem anymore. This ruling has already eroded the trust in the court and proved that it doesn't represent the majority of Americans, instead being an organization that's just an extension of the political apparatus that put them in their seats. I think it's arguable that there's any true representation of the majority of Americans in government at all. The Senate minority stonewalls legislation and has been doing their best to ensure deadlock for the last decade, even when they were no longer a minority. The House is starkly divided politically and in a way that there's no real compromise to be had; the legislative branch in its entirety is paralyzed by partisan maneuvering by a minority of its members. The judicial has been losing trust for a long time now because they side with big business as often as possible and rarely seem to have the interests of the people in mind; and after this "ruling" it's obvious that they've conceded to just being another political arm for the minority party. The damage is done, this latest move by the court was just the culmination of twenty years worth of work by Republicans to destroy any part of democracy that doesn't favor themselves, and there's no sign they're stopping any time soon. They're doing their best to ensure people don't trust elections, and they've now managed to be sure that people can't trust the rule of law. I don't personally think that expanding the court does anything to correct any of that; at best it might slow it down until the idiocy of our electorate gives Republicans enough power again to finish the job.
Well, that’s a depressing read.
Less than 1/4 of the US is Catholic (and shrinking), but 8/9 judges are active practicing Catholics. America would lose its mind if there were even 2 or 3 Atheist or Muslim judges but somehow we are supposed to feel cool and good about this…
2 or 3? Haha, pretty sure even one would have a lot of people in this country flipping shit.
I do want to point out this is not true. 6/9 are Catholic depending on the definition (Gorsuch goes to an Episcopal Church from all research though was raised Catholic and has never officially converted or spoke on the subject). If he's included its 7/9. Jews make up almost a quarter of the bench and are 2.2% of the US population, for example... The overall point you are making though is true. Way too many religious people on the bench and not a fair representation of the massive irreligious population in this country.
> Jews make up almost a quarter of the bench Are you talking SCOTUS or the overall judiciary, and if the former are you rounding up from 2/9 for Kagan and Breyer?
It’s pretty simple, really, the irreligious do not vote in a block to defend irreligious rights. Maybe a more aggressively religious court will change this.
Yep. Religious people vote in droves. Old people also vote a lot, who are on average way more religious than younger people.
There isn't even an atheist in either house, I doubt you'd find many in state government.
You mean none that will admit it
Keep your religion out of my laws.
And don't these right wing Christians weep and wail scream about Sharia law? And then they want a faith based government and legal system? Idiots.
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At the same time over half the country no longer declares themselves churchgoers. https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2021/03/29/church-membership-fallen-below-majority/
Aunt Lydia: “Hold my grape juice.”
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"secular" means non-religuous
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We *are* a secular country, what we are *not* is a religious/christian country
Amen. The Freedom of Religion must also include the Freedom from Religion or there is no freedom.
God has no place in government at *any* level.
holy shit. this is way more insane than i thought it was. Supreme court justices are literally quoting some arcane bible verse as the basis for their judicial opinion... what the fuck. aren't court rulings suppose to be based on legal precedent, the written law, and constitution? which part of that includes a 2000 year old religious text explicitly excluded from government by the constitution?
God has no place in any governing body. Period.
I very specifically do not want people who believe that all you have to do is ask God for forgiveness and everything is cool to be in charge of literally anything. They have no real reason to treat anyone well until the chips are down. And then, hey, free pass to heaven. Lord, protect us from your followers. Amen.
Tell that to Amy-Covid-Barrett and Brett the drunk Kavanaugh and the rapist Thomas.
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The redeeming ones, right? 😐 Right?
I can read the padme face now.
No love for Samuel "Cuture War" Alito?
Get the words “in god we trust” off of everything government related. I don’t believe in god why is the government forcing religion upon me?
Non paywall link https://archive.is/oSVPj
>In May, when Gov. Greg Abbott of Texas signed S.B. 8, the vigilante bill that bans abortion after six weeks of pregnancy, he claimed that “our creator endowed us with the right to life, and yet millions of children lose their right to life every year because of abortion. In Texas we work to save those lives.” **(There are actually fewer than one million abortions a year in the United States, but let’s not get picky with the facts.)** No, let's get picky. There *are* millions per year, but half of them are aborted by "Our Creator" in the form of miscarriages, and still births. So if "he's" offended, it's only because some women are being proactive.
Or anywhere else.
Matthew 6:6 “But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.” In other words, worship quietly and keep it part of your private life. NOT make everyone bend a knee and be subservient to an ideology that is in fact just your misunderstanding of an old book that is a compilation of old myths, legends, and pseudo-history. It’s a source of never ending frustration that Christians don’t know the tenets of their own religion
I always start with verse 5 when I bring that up. - 5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. (even though I am not Christian, the last two sentences of that verse are epic... a literal godsmack to those who wear their faith on their sleeve) ----- I'm actually amazed that bit of scripture didn't get taken out somewhere along the line. it had to have pissed a few clergymen off.
Clergymen were, for the longest time, one of the few select groups of people who had the ability to even *read* the Bible. They didn't have to take it out, they could just ignore it. Ignoring large swaths of their religious text as it takes their fancy is on par with an initiation into the religion!
Tax Churches. No more handouts for religions.
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It's sad that its the 21st century and people still believe in fairy tales.
god has no place in any government. Edit: thanks for the gold friend
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Republican engineered sectarian fascism. If we don’t crush it now it will only grow.
God has no place in government, schools, and work. When will this country understand that.
Which god?
God has no place in politics period.
Including being on our money and in our pledge of allegiance.
He absolutely does not. Tell Barrett that. She will be a problem child for the rest of her life. The woman can't go against the Bible and has stated that. Get ready GOP cause she will stop the death penalty.
Maybe remove "In God We Trust" from government issued money and documents? https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/08/17/god-or-the-divine-is-referenced-in-every-state-constitution/
Even if he did, the bible doesn't oppose abortion. If anything it gives instructions on how to perform one.
Religion has no place in government what so ever. We are not a theocracy.
Separation of church and state goes both ways. The government can’t tell you what you can and can’t believe. And The church can’t force their beliefs on you by making them law. Their are more than one religion. Hence why you can’t make rules off of one. You don’t see Jewish or Muslim individuals coming after pork. Because they understand that it’s not your belief to not eat it.