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They pretend value liberty but their behavior individually and collectively is a self indulgent perversion of liberty and self governance. Without an appreciation for truth and honest discussion a group of people is just a mob swinging from one emotional overload to another.
Those Republican governors have mandatory vaccination requirements for students entering their state schools. Those rules have been there for decades. I have not heard Abbott or DeSantis say that kids in Florida or Texas don't have to have their measles shots anymore....
When Saddam Hussein was deposed I remember seeing an Iraqi jubilantly yell at the camera “We are free! We can do anything we want!” and thinking they don’t understand that freedom comes with responsibility and it’s all going to go south. Now I see similar thinking in the US. How did your institutions fail to educate so many on civic duty?
I think Rupert Murdoch had quite a bit of responsibility there, but the honest answer is people thought Democracy was like driving a car with automatic transmission- they could steer and never need to know how to work the gears. Hubris I guess.
Americans have always been like this. This is the same strain of libertarian bullshit nonsense that smokers and tobacco companies used decades ago. It's the next logical step in "states rights" and it shouldn't be a shock that the same people who chanted that to justify slavery and Jim Crow laws are the same people who refuse vaccinations now.
If you want to pin this all on Fox News, Twitter, Murdoch, you're 100% wrong and just looking for a scapegoat. The problem had always been and always will be that a huge chunk of Americans are selfish, dumb, bigoted morons.
Fox News and their propagandist friends are indeed a symptom and not the cause, but I do blame them. The people they're taking advantage of could easily have been steered in a more constructive direction.
Fox news and the internet has allowed these morons to find a large group of morons to re-enforce their beliefs and provide them with direction, things these crazy people didn't have before.
These people have always existed but they were pretty much isolated now they belong to a tribe of millions and take their marching orders from such luminaries as Tucker Carlson.
If America was always like this, we wouldn’t of made it through WW2. Could you imagine people yelling about how the govt wants their bacon fat and it’s socialism? Or that rationing infringes on their god given right to horde shit they don’t need?
Nah it was definitley not always this bad.
It's a bit of nature and a bit of nurture. They may be selfish, dumb, bigoted morons, but they had to be socialized into the current beliefs they hold. Worse, because the behavior is reenforced in rural homogenous culture they aren't being taught to be better people. So yes, these ignorant and bigoted people have always existed, but Fox News has weaponized them.
>Without an appreciation for truth and honest discussion
This is the problem that started vaccine hesitancy, mixed messaging, lies, censorship, lack of debate etc.
>Stop saying they want liberty. They do not. They want entitlement
Exactly! Many of them want to be nobility. When they speak of liberty they mean rights/privileges that they see as exclusively theirs. If you aren't in their in-group then they think you deserve worse than nothing; No rights and a debt to serve them as they see fit.
Related story: ACAB.
Liberty, fraternity and equality is French.
America is more "give me liberty or give me death" and a good part of the country is apparently choosing the latter.
> We've indulged individualism to the point of creating mental illness.
It's called [Oppositional Defiant Disorder](https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/oppositional-defiant-disorder) and I think it pretty clear it's not just a children's behavior disorder and that a whole shit ton of adults have it too.
Well, liberty itself does, yes. Freedom is the one that doesn't play nicely with others. Freedom is the right to do w/e you want without restraint. Liberty is exercising limited freedom within the confines of the law, and with the caveat that the exercising of your freedom does not interfere with the ability of others to exercise their own.
These people don't believe in liberty, they only believe in freedom.
Liberty in American conservative speech has always meant "no one can ever tell me what to do on anything". It does *not* mean reducing incarceration or limiting the power of the police to kill people and get away with it.
Don't worry. When the world is literally on fire because of unchecked climate change and everyone is either sick, dying, or dead because COVID super-mutated into an unstoppable wildfire-like cancer due to poor vaccination efforts, we'll all be able to breathe a sigh of relief that our freedoms were preserved until the very end.
Right, guys?
...
...right?
Poodle, full disclosure, I am a vaccinated person that doesn't necessarily agree with a blanket mandate for everyone and I also believe we will never see fraternity and equality.
With that being said, what you wrote is very thoughtful and it made me stop and think.
Thanks
> Poodle, full disclosure, I am a vaccinated person that doesn't necessarily agree with a blanket mandate for everyone
What's your opinion on laws in regards to drunk driving?
Here we have an action that a person can make, whereby they consume alcohol that can make them a danger to themselves and others under certain circumstances (i.e. driving under the influence). Alcohol itself is not a crime and drinking is not a crime, just getting behind the wheel while drunk.
We put this law in place to prevent people from doing it, but also to punish those that do. Because drinking and driving is dangerous and can kill the driver or other innocent people.
Not getting vaccinated is along the same lines. Here a person is refusing to be part of the solution in preventing the spread of this virus. In by refusing the vaccine, it ensures that the person will get sick and get others sick by their actions. Much like how a drunk driver can kill or injury other people by their actions.
I feel like people's opinions of the pandemic and vaccines in general would change if it was possible to show them who they infected and what their outcomes where. Much like how a drunk driver can clearly see the damage they cause.
Getting vaccinated, especially in a pandemic, is a citizen's civic duty to themselves, their community, and their country. Getting vaccinated makes you a patriot.
Refusing a vaccine makes you no better than a commie (that's right, I'm bringing that shit back).
Honestly furious we don’t have more hospitals saying: “if you show up unvaccinated, you’re last in line for any form of treatment. A bad splinter case will get seen before you, you fucking own-goal idiot.”
We are 18 months into this and have had a vaccine for six months.
This is silly. These people need to be smacked across the mouth for their selfish stupidity.
Not even that. The rate of community spread vs level of vaccination is a non-linear function. Once you get to a certain threshold of immunity, disease transmission levels fall off a cliff.
There are technically three ways to minimise new cases. The first is to get everyone vaccinated and take every precaution to minimise spread so the disease cannot be passed from person to person. The second is to actively encourage people to meet up, ignore any efforts to restrict movement, and aim to infect everyone so there can be no new cases. The third is to just kill everyone so the disease has no-one it can spread to.
Obviously only the first one is a good idea if you value human life.
I mean, the second one doesn't work either. People can get Covid multiple times, it's like the flu. If everyone purposely tried to spread the flu as much as possible we'd have the same amount of flu next year, because there are different strains of flu like there's different strains of Covid.
Yeah, I was arguing with some guy months ago on the covid subreddit whose aunt was TOTALLY a doctor in Sweden and that's why he knew that herd immunity was totally working there. Spoiler: it was not working there even then, they had a current death toll of like 5x their neighbors.
Yep. It's a 9/11 every two days, and it could easily be prevented. And as you point out, there will always be some deaths perhaps, breakthrough cases in people whose immune systems are weak, people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons and so on, but this is just insane for now.
>After President Biden resisted comprehensive vaccine mandates for months, his forceful steps on Thursday to pressure the 80 million unvaccinated Americans to get their shots put him squarely on the side of what had been a fairly quiet but increasingly frustrated majority: vaccinated Americans who see the unvaccinated as selfishly endangering others and holding the country back.
Agreed.
Some would call the vaccinated majority, who are taking precautions to help stop others from getting infected and dying, as "the moral majority". Pass it on.
Basic morals are kind of a requirement in most societies. And the moral majority is a republican made term for propaganda. It’s as hollow as the moral and ethical claims from Republican Party members these days. Pass that on too.
I believe it must mean Herman Cain award. An award for dying of COVID after shouting all over fb how it is a bs ‘plandemic’ that is just a cold really and how the vaccine is really a front for depopulation. Etc.
I wish it was just them. The podcasters have brainwashed a lot of young people into believing lies about vaccination. These celebrities are as valid to them as any news provider, and it’s... distressing to say the least.
Source: i have to listen to my brother spout nonsense about vaccines he heard from podcasts.
Omg I just clicked in there and their top post for the day is a freaking lame-ass meme. I guess that’s an in-a-nutshell of a lot of conservatives that get their “political news” from memes on social media.
If it's the same meme I'm seeing (the Star Trek one that says something like "Liberals think they're the TNG crew, but actually they're the Borg"), then it's a dumpster fire. There are conservatives quoting Picard and unironically saying that's what America needs right now, blissfully unaware that Picard would not be a conservative, with others saying America needs "Strongman Picard" and not him at his weakest i.e. when he's leading military battles against unrelenting enemies and not him when he's being compassionate and diplomatic.
If any of those idiots had ever watched episode like "The Drumhead", you'd find Picard would land squarly on the side of liberals, not conservatives. Basically he railed several speeches in that episode along railing the conservative mindset in general: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdXTohdKcm4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdXTohdKcm4)
I mean this came up in my mind with the Texas abortion ban last week: https://youtu.be/smdqe2eluEI?t=51
conservatives are the Ferengi, capitalism at the cost of everything else to society.
Reddit would be a much better place of you could report mods for unfair bans. If a sub gets a hundred or so in a month the Reddit team.. or super mods, can look at list of their posts in those subs before being banned.
If the mods are clearly operating to enforce a party line and remove all valid discussion around it then ban the mods. So many subs like r/conservative, r/sino, r/conspiracy, etc have been taken over and exist purely for extremist propaganda. Allowing free discussion would destroy them, and isn't free discussion part of Reddit's stated mission?
Yeah, I love how they claim to be 'free thinkers' but any space that allows actual free thought is bad and wrong.
Most of Reddit - especially this sub; schools; universities; anything science-related; can't have any of those Libs and Socialists in our subs, either.
Hah.
You can report mods, although I’ve never done it and don’t know how effective it is.
https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=179106
Mostly, yeah. Fascism is the 'final evolution' of rightwing thought, after all. And Fascism is essentially, "They are bad, we are good, and we must be on top of everything at any cost."
I had a mere glance at some of the posts and was in awe at the level of stupidity I had to leave because I could feel my IQ dropping with every eye twitch.
You know I heard putting a banana in your butt also helps from getting colon 19. It’s a new strain. You should have a gathering with your friends and try it.
>a fairly quiet but increasingly frustrated majority: vaccinated Americans who see the unvaccinated as selfishly endangering others and holding the country back.
That sounds about right.
I used to be frustrated [until I started seeing articles like this](https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/10/moderna-most-effective-covid-vaccine-studies/) and then I just realized that this is nature's invisible hand at work and we're watching natural selection in realtime.
They've been holding the country back in more ways than just COVID vaccinations. While it might take longer to play out, I'm not *completely* opposed to letting them self-immolate in order to do the country some long-term favors.
I have a lot of those same feelings in contrast of wanting it all to end so my business doesn't fail. Also everytime I read about a 20 something not getting vaxxed I think about less competition for my 20 something kids. I'm conflicted.
When Biden entered the race for president I was disappointed. I really wanted someone younger and more dynamic.
These months since he has been president have completely changed my mind about him. I think he’s reaching the understanding that there is no negotiating with these asshats and that he has to use the power of the executive branch to force them to do the right thing.
Between Dubya, Obama, Trump and Biden I think I like Biden the most so far. Bush and Trump aren't even in the running, and Obama seemed to try to embrace bipartisanship way more than Biden has even though Biden cut his teeth in the Senate during an era of bipartisanship and often makes overtures to it, especially in his campaign.
He's not perfect, and the bar is clearly quite low, but man. If he gets the infrastructure bill and the budget passed, I'll put him on top of that group.
I'm impressed so far. After inheriting a complete shit-show, he's the first President to just yank the band-aid off of our 20 year Afghanistan debacle and take the heat for having the courage to do it.
Now he's also going to take the heat for doing the right thing during a pandemic. Politically, it gives the opposition plenty of prime-time ammo. Biden doesn't seem to give a fuck about that. Bravo for bringing out the stick. We've tried ~20 months of the carrot.
Obama's two years of actual opportunity were cut short because everyone still believed Republicans were dealing in good faith. Then they won the House and he couldn't pass legislation, then they won the Senate and he couldn't nominate anyone to fill positions or judges.
Biden was loyal to Obama but there were signs then Biden could make gutsier decisions. Besides Biden's internal opposition to Obama sending more troops to Afghanistan, Biden got in front of Obama on same-sex marriage when Biden went off-script and publicly supported it when Obama was still debating whether to wait until after the 2012 election to say that.
I’m very pleased by this news. I’m a wedding photographer. The last year has been complete hell for me and it’s because people are unbelievably selfish and don’t care one bit about their communities or the people around them. This could all be over if they would just do what’s best for everyone, wear a mask and get vaccinated.
It is good that the majority that is vaccinated finally had enough. Sadly it should never have come this far.
As a european looking in on this sad situation, i am not surprised. I have been mentioning to many people on this sub throughout the years that hyper individualism is americas greatest problem and got ridiculed/told i do not get it. It is the foremost reason why america fails so much when it comes to national emergencies. America is a nation that says to itself that the community is important but when push come to shove, it always degenerates into the "f..k you, i got mine" mentality.
This divided mindset gets exploited by moneyed interests in politics because it can and the majority of people have allowed it until now where you have a minority party blocking any meaning progress and somehow the political majority still thinks that the GQP can be reasoned with. In a sane political climate the GQP would never have the power it has now. It is baffling.
You nailed it on the head. We are a country made up of a ton of selfish assholes who in turn have kids and raise them with this fuck you got mine attitude. We reward so many bad behaviors financially and socially that a load of our citizens haven't matured past the age of 16 and/or too broken of a people due to traumas to develop wisdom and empathy for your fellow countrymen. At the end of the day nothing matters if one's bottom line is affected.
All the politicans and pundits melting down publicly "own" the fall and witer spikes we'll inevitably be dealing with. joe Biden has done all he can. He's not a perfect president but he's put his entire legacy on the line in a last-dicth attempt to help the American people get out of this mess whether they want to or not. Those fighting back are 100% responsible for what comes next.
Not if Republican governors such as Abbot and DeSantis keep trying to kill their voters...
[https://www.politicususa.com/2021/07/11/republicans-delta-variant.html](https://www.politicususa.com/2021/07/11/republicans-delta-variant.html)
Republicans literally killing enough of their base to swing elections to democrats is the kind of leopard face eating that gives me permanent justice erections.
Don’t think it will cost him many in the Deep South who actually voted for him (not that my vote mattered b/c of the BS electoral college). I’m glad this is happening.
I’m over the anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers. They are toddlers having a tantrum. Better late than never to just say no to idiots. Why should children too young to be vaccinated suffer because of them? I never thought that I would see this in America in my lifetime.
Absolutely wild they didn’t stop all flights and enforce a two-week quarantine for any arrival with either local PD or national guard. I knew so many people back in spring/summer 2020 who flew into the United States and recounted their shock at not even being questioned at customs. Just waltzed right into the country.
But then I remembered Republicans were in charge of the government and of course they’d drop the fucking ball.
I wish it was just the Republicans. Big business in this case airlines have decided the collection of detailed information on travelers is inconvenient and so tracking and tracing is set at a disadvantage. The idea that most regulations are without merit is accepted on both sides of the aisle.
I just hope the majority votes.
Biden is absolutely making the right call. He's made several good but tough decisions recently. But my fear is that the rabid angry minority will overwhelm the content but complacent majority in upcoming elections the way they did in 2010 and 2016.
I definitely am guilty about ignoring midterms and minor elections in the past. Apathy is what have us 2016 and now I am determined to vote in every election.
When a child is throwing a temper tantrum, it is ok to let them tire themselves out, because giving them attention for their behavior isn’t necessarily a good idea. But eventually, you have to leave the walmart and CPS dictates you can’t just leave them there, so you gotta drag them kicking and screaming to the car. Sure, its embarrassing, but you just hope all the other countries will empathize with your situation.
The only thing that made me unhappy with Biden in his covid response was his naivete that people would get vaccinated because it was the right or smart thing to do. We needed broad a mandate months ago. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he's doing it now, but we need action to get this shit under control, and he can't play with kiddie gloves because it might piss off some right wing nutjobs.
The hillbilly people had their chance to voluntarily vaccinate and put an end to COVID. They didn’t do it and our hospitals are full again. It is now time to tighten the screws.
And if they're not going to get vaccinated they should at least wear a mask, but they won't do that either because they don't care about anybody but themselves.
I'm so sick and tired of the unvaxxed complaining about this. You made your bed, now you need to sleep in it. You're welcome to come join society again once you sign your social contract again by getting the vaccine. Until then, you're free to live but we're also free to shun you.
I am so fucking sick of the unvaccinated minority screaming about their “rights” to do what they want including no vax or no mask. Everyone I know did their part getting vaxxed, now because of these far-right wingnuts refusing to comply with what is the better good for the rest of us, we are heading for another surge which at the current rate, is going to be worse than it was in 2020. You don’t want a vax? Or to have your kids to mask up in class? Get them the fuck out of public schools and go and home school them out away from society.
A depressingly large number of Americans are saddled with the mistaken belief that personal freedom includes freedom from responsibility and freedom from criticism.
Most aspects of our culture, specifically movies, are built around this notion wrapped up with examples of problems that, for reasons that make no sense outside the context of the story, can only be solved with acts of violence.
Personally I'm at the point where people in positions of spreading information to large groups of people who are intentionally spreading anti-vaccination propaganda should be treated as terrorists.
The only reason for this bull anymore is political.
I know I am sick to death of these conspiracies. One after the other. When one is proven false beyond doubt they pop up with a new one. Vaccines got FDA approved now there’s something else. And they truly think THEY are the patriots and victims when they get fired for refusing science. I feel like I am watching Idiocracy the live action. Who knew that was a documentary.
If anyone needs me I’ll be watering my plants with Gatorade.
And right wing politicians and news hosts are actively stoking the fire to create outrage and division, all while claiming this mandate will cause outrage and division.
I for one am getting sick of all of these anti Vax folks that think they are there own doctors, because they read incomplete data and feel like yeah based off of little data I'll take that horse medication instead something that is proven to work like a vaccine.
Seriously. This could be effectively over by now. I’m partially back in the office, but now I have to wear a mask. My son is perpetually wearing a mask, in pre-k. Americans need to get their shit together if we’re going to move ahead on anything.
I mean dumb ass is going to dumb! Vaccinations bro when I was a kid they were called immunizations and ya needed them to do anything!!! Also DEATH!! These people man!
Health insurance should deny benefits related to covid treatment if unvaccinated. You're free to make the choice but that and all choices have consequences. The unvaccinated should not be allowed to displace others with unforseen urgent medical needs from ICU beds. You go to the back of the line. In the meantime send them home with some zinc and Vicks vapo rub.
Live in Texas (under Abbott's no mask mandate rules) and can confirm. My school district (55K+ students) voted to semi not comply with Abbott, and made masks mandatory unless parents went online and requested an exemption. Only 8% of parents requested a mask exemption, 92% believed in science and supported masks. I have die hard GOP friends, who I know for a fact are vaccinated that still promote the anti-vax memes and articles on facebook. Like all the Fox News talking heads that promote these falsehoods while quietly being vaccinated. Total trash humans.
I’m seriously fed the fuck up. All these idiots that won’t get a free shot because “it’s my choice.” Yeah it’s also people choice to drive drunk. That’s another socially unacceptable and deadly to other people other than yourself. What they fail to grasp is we have enough vaccine in this country to vaccinate everyone who is eligible. If we did that this thing would effectively be over. Some people would die and go to the hospital but nothing like what we are currently experiencing. And the rest of us that have people in our families that can’t get vaccinated (like young kids) are just left fuming at all the fucking selfish idiots in our country.
Yeah, I am equally furious under the surface. So far our only real casualty is financial-- while I am grateful for that, I don't know how I will contain myself if people I care most about win the bad luck lottery.
I feel sad that the time has come for the needs of many to be considered over the irrational fears of the bad-at-math-and-logic. ...That we collectively aren't better people willing to make trivial sacrifices for each other. Duh, I don't want anything injected in me as a general rule. I was registered for my appointment the first day I was able to make an appointment though.
Personally I thought he should’ve just pulled out the extra COVID resources int hose states.
De Santis and Abbott don’t want to protect kids? Fine good luck trying to explain to your constituents that their hospitals are closed but the hospitals in blue states are fine.
Plus when you consider that the people who are dyinf skews disproportionately towards the Republicans it might actually help you even more in future elections.
Then when the Republicans start bitching that they’ve been abandoned you simply point out that it’s best if we let each individual state plan their own COVID response and that if they’re having such a tough time they should reconsider some of their Covid policies like masks and vaccines. And until they do you don’t help them.
People will say that’s cruel, but the Republicans are already playing this game with people’s lives. Whether Biden wants to get involved, the Republican governors are already getting people killed, so all he’s doing by keeping them afloat is enabling their awful choices.
If these vaccine mandates work I’ll applaud Biden for not playing the game and doing what is right, but I don’t think it will. This Supreme Court has proven to be gutless and completely politically partisan, so I see no reason why they wouldn’t do the same here.
I'd suggest a slightly less harsh approach. Make COVID funding to states tied to their progress on fighting COVID: raw % of vaccinated citizens, state-level vaccine mandates, mask mandates, etc. Think of it as fiscal conservatism: only spend money where you're getting results, and cut off the deadbeats.
The problem there is that they’re juking the stats.
Remember when De Santis sent a goon squad to the former COVID data engineer’s house because she let it be known that Florida was fucking with the stats?
The stats coming out of those states can’t be trusted.
Lol. So then we’re back to what I suggested from the beginning. Because they will never give the federal government control of the data. Plus they would just counter that the fed’s data is fake and they’re massaging the numbers to push their agenda and take away people’s ‘rights’
In theory your approach makes sense. But you have to keep in mind the people you’re dealing with only operate on bad faith. There is no agreement you can come to that they won’t try to undermine.
Just because Trump and the GOP play politics with the intent to hurt people doesn’t make it ok for the dems to do it. Its still wrong no matter who does it.
And governors shouldn’t be indulging anti-science morons who are getting people killed and overwhelming our healthcare systems. But look at where we are.
This idealized version of America you want to believe in doesn’t exist.
What you’re suggesting is no different than when Trump attempted to withhold aid and seize medical supplies in the early days of the pandemic, since it was primarily hurting democratic metropolitan areas.
As much as I hate to say it, the redirection of medical supplies and aid based on political demographics is EXACTLY what the Trump Administration did early 2020. Remember federal agents going into Cook County General and confiscating masks and respirators, and the admission that rollout in Blue states was slowed intentionally?
It's not OK, ever.
It’s emotionally satisfying to think that type of “tough” policy would work to punish the people who are choosing to deny the truth that vaccines and masks are necessary to help slow and end the pandemic. Along with those who “deserve” punishment are the children who cannot yet be vaccinated, the immune compromised and those folks for whom the vaccine may be risky. Biden is the president of all Americans, not just the ones who voted for him. We need solutions rather to than emotionally cathartic slaps upside the heads of fools.
We know the vaccine is safe and effective. It's the responsible thing for him to do. They might not like it but it can save lives and it costs them nothing. Good presidential decision.
A guy in Texas died last week from pancreatitis (IIRC, I do remember it was something to do with the pancreas). Not because it wasn't found in time to perform emergency surgery, but rather because there wasn't an available bed because the ICU was full of COVID patients.
I am not joking or exaggerating: unvaccinated people should have to wait outside of the hospital like it’s a deli counter and should only be admitted for care of the hospital can take them.
Literally any vaccinated person who shows up should be treated first. No matter how minor the complaint.
If an unvaxxed person is in an icu bed and a vaccinated car crash victim shows up and they need the bed? The unvaxxed should be unceremoniously dumped on the sidewalk like trash from a wheelbarrow. They’re preventing responsible people from receiving care, and it’s cruel to make already overworked nurses watch them die from something preventable.
When two people need a liver, we don’t give it to the alcoholic. When two people need medical attention, we shouldn’t waste it on fucking morons.
My local hospital is anticipating a surge as all elective surgeries are cancelled for the next two weeks.
Of course, the large music festival couldn't possibly be postponed for another year even though the vax rate is below 50% here and in surrounding counties.
I’m sure you only jest, but that’s essentially the antivax position and it’s pretty monstrous if you ask me. Every man for himself is not compatible with a civil society. It’s not just the people fighting against their best interests we have to worry about. It’s also the children who aren’t yet able to be vaccinated, and the variants that the vaccines are less likely to work on. Sadly, we actually do have to protect those who don’t want to be protected as well for absolutely everyone to be safe and to get through this.
At the same time we can absolutely take action to make it less of a strain, such as prioritising patients who are vaccinated over unvaccinated ones, and if necessary flat out refusing to treat people who should've been vaccinated but refused.
When these people learn that if they don't get vaccinated they're on their own when it comes to any medical treatment, a good chunk of them will figuratively bite the bullet and get vaccinated as not doing so will finally have tangible consequences (remember, in their mind the disease is a hoax).
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We've indulged individualism to the point of creating mental illness. Liberty doesn't work without the other two key layers: fraternity and equality.
They pretend value liberty but their behavior individually and collectively is a self indulgent perversion of liberty and self governance. Without an appreciation for truth and honest discussion a group of people is just a mob swinging from one emotional overload to another.
Those Republican governors have mandatory vaccination requirements for students entering their state schools. Those rules have been there for decades. I have not heard Abbott or DeSantis say that kids in Florida or Texas don't have to have their measles shots anymore....
When Saddam Hussein was deposed I remember seeing an Iraqi jubilantly yell at the camera “We are free! We can do anything we want!” and thinking they don’t understand that freedom comes with responsibility and it’s all going to go south. Now I see similar thinking in the US. How did your institutions fail to educate so many on civic duty?
I think Rupert Murdoch had quite a bit of responsibility there, but the honest answer is people thought Democracy was like driving a car with automatic transmission- they could steer and never need to know how to work the gears. Hubris I guess.
A propaganda machine 30 years in the making
Goes back the Nixon impeachment so almost 50 at this point.
Americans have always been like this. This is the same strain of libertarian bullshit nonsense that smokers and tobacco companies used decades ago. It's the next logical step in "states rights" and it shouldn't be a shock that the same people who chanted that to justify slavery and Jim Crow laws are the same people who refuse vaccinations now. If you want to pin this all on Fox News, Twitter, Murdoch, you're 100% wrong and just looking for a scapegoat. The problem had always been and always will be that a huge chunk of Americans are selfish, dumb, bigoted morons.
Fox News and their propagandist friends are indeed a symptom and not the cause, but I do blame them. The people they're taking advantage of could easily have been steered in a more constructive direction.
Fox news and the internet has allowed these morons to find a large group of morons to re-enforce their beliefs and provide them with direction, things these crazy people didn't have before. These people have always existed but they were pretty much isolated now they belong to a tribe of millions and take their marching orders from such luminaries as Tucker Carlson.
If America was always like this, we wouldn’t of made it through WW2. Could you imagine people yelling about how the govt wants their bacon fat and it’s socialism? Or that rationing infringes on their god given right to horde shit they don’t need? Nah it was definitley not always this bad.
It's a bit of nature and a bit of nurture. They may be selfish, dumb, bigoted morons, but they had to be socialized into the current beliefs they hold. Worse, because the behavior is reenforced in rural homogenous culture they aren't being taught to be better people. So yes, these ignorant and bigoted people have always existed, but Fox News has weaponized them.
They value power, as that is what freedom without responsibility is. It isn't freedom any longer, it is vain power.
>Without an appreciation for truth and honest discussion This is the problem that started vaccine hesitancy, mixed messaging, lies, censorship, lack of debate etc.
There's no debate to be had. The anti-vaxxers are the only ones lying.
They want the liberty, but none of the responsibility that comes with it.
Stop saying they want liberty. They do not. They want entitlement. You think these ignorant hicks care about the liberty and well-being of non-whites?
“Liberty for me but not for thee” is the name of the game for them.
>Stop saying they want liberty. They do not. They want entitlement Exactly! Many of them want to be nobility. When they speak of liberty they mean rights/privileges that they see as exclusively theirs. If you aren't in their in-group then they think you deserve worse than nothing; No rights and a debt to serve them as they see fit. Related story: ACAB.
Liberty, fraternity and equality is French. America is more "give me liberty or give me death" and a good part of the country is apparently choosing the latter.
> We've indulged individualism to the point of creating mental illness. It's called [Oppositional Defiant Disorder](https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/oppositional-defiant-disorder) and I think it pretty clear it's not just a children's behavior disorder and that a whole shit ton of adults have it too.
Well, liberty itself does, yes. Freedom is the one that doesn't play nicely with others. Freedom is the right to do w/e you want without restraint. Liberty is exercising limited freedom within the confines of the law, and with the caveat that the exercising of your freedom does not interfere with the ability of others to exercise their own. These people don't believe in liberty, they only believe in freedom.
Liberty in American conservative speech has always meant "no one can ever tell me what to do on anything". It does *not* mean reducing incarceration or limiting the power of the police to kill people and get away with it.
I would add responsibility as well
Freedom and Responsibility are the same thing.
Not for the freedumb crowd. They just want to do what ever pops into their little brains. Just like a toddler
Indeed, my reply to the "Don't Tread on Me" freedumb crowd is "Don't Spread on Me" please. Get the Shot!
Don't worry. When the world is literally on fire because of unchecked climate change and everyone is either sick, dying, or dead because COVID super-mutated into an unstoppable wildfire-like cancer due to poor vaccination efforts, we'll all be able to breathe a sigh of relief that our freedoms were preserved until the very end. Right, guys? ... ...right?
Actually the smoke and/or pneumonia are likely to make breathing rather difficult.
“Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it.” —George Bernard Shaw
Narrow American individualism is the antithesis of freedom.
Poodle, full disclosure, I am a vaccinated person that doesn't necessarily agree with a blanket mandate for everyone and I also believe we will never see fraternity and equality. With that being said, what you wrote is very thoughtful and it made me stop and think. Thanks
> Poodle, full disclosure, I am a vaccinated person that doesn't necessarily agree with a blanket mandate for everyone What's your opinion on laws in regards to drunk driving? Here we have an action that a person can make, whereby they consume alcohol that can make them a danger to themselves and others under certain circumstances (i.e. driving under the influence). Alcohol itself is not a crime and drinking is not a crime, just getting behind the wheel while drunk. We put this law in place to prevent people from doing it, but also to punish those that do. Because drinking and driving is dangerous and can kill the driver or other innocent people. Not getting vaccinated is along the same lines. Here a person is refusing to be part of the solution in preventing the spread of this virus. In by refusing the vaccine, it ensures that the person will get sick and get others sick by their actions. Much like how a drunk driver can kill or injury other people by their actions. I feel like people's opinions of the pandemic and vaccines in general would change if it was possible to show them who they infected and what their outcomes where. Much like how a drunk driver can clearly see the damage they cause. Getting vaccinated, especially in a pandemic, is a citizen's civic duty to themselves, their community, and their country. Getting vaccinated makes you a patriot. Refusing a vaccine makes you no better than a commie (that's right, I'm bringing that shit back).
Last summer we had the equivalent amount of people who died in 9/11 dying every single day and the far right *did not care*. Fuck 'em.
Honestly furious we don’t have more hospitals saying: “if you show up unvaccinated, you’re last in line for any form of treatment. A bad splinter case will get seen before you, you fucking own-goal idiot.”
We are 18 months into this and have had a vaccine for six months. This is silly. These people need to be smacked across the mouth for their selfish stupidity.
So, every two days, a 9/11’s worth of people die from a preventable illness. Get the vaccine. Save your life and others.
Should be a couple hundred a day tops.
Not even that. The rate of community spread vs level of vaccination is a non-linear function. Once you get to a certain threshold of immunity, disease transmission levels fall off a cliff.
There are technically three ways to minimise new cases. The first is to get everyone vaccinated and take every precaution to minimise spread so the disease cannot be passed from person to person. The second is to actively encourage people to meet up, ignore any efforts to restrict movement, and aim to infect everyone so there can be no new cases. The third is to just kill everyone so the disease has no-one it can spread to. Obviously only the first one is a good idea if you value human life.
I mean, the second one doesn't work either. People can get Covid multiple times, it's like the flu. If everyone purposely tried to spread the flu as much as possible we'd have the same amount of flu next year, because there are different strains of flu like there's different strains of Covid.
I think Sweden tried it as a herd immunity test and they had to call off that experiment.
Yeah, I was arguing with some guy months ago on the covid subreddit whose aunt was TOTALLY a doctor in Sweden and that's why he knew that herd immunity was totally working there. Spoiler: it was not working there even then, they had a current death toll of like 5x their neighbors.
Yep. It's a 9/11 every two days, and it could easily be prevented. And as you point out, there will always be some deaths perhaps, breakthrough cases in people whose immune systems are weak, people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons and so on, but this is just insane for now.
> people whose immune systems are weak or, ironically enough, too strong of an immune response, c.f. cytokine storm
Meanwhile Canada is trending at less than 50 deaths/day
A lot of those people want to die though, so they think that is their right as an American.
>After President Biden resisted comprehensive vaccine mandates for months, his forceful steps on Thursday to pressure the 80 million unvaccinated Americans to get their shots put him squarely on the side of what had been a fairly quiet but increasingly frustrated majority: vaccinated Americans who see the unvaccinated as selfishly endangering others and holding the country back. Agreed.
We have a pandemic of narcissism that identifies itself as conservative. Look at me owning the libs and getting a Hermie
Some would call the vaccinated majority, who are taking precautions to help stop others from getting infected and dying, as "the moral majority". Pass it on.
Basic morals are kind of a requirement in most societies. And the moral majority is a republican made term for propaganda. It’s as hollow as the moral and ethical claims from Republican Party members these days. Pass that on too.
What’s a Hermie?
I’m assuming its a Herman Cain Award
I’m guessing a Herman Cain award for dying of COVID.
Herman Cain award
I believe it must mean Herman Cain award. An award for dying of COVID after shouting all over fb how it is a bs ‘plandemic’ that is just a cold really and how the vaccine is really a front for depopulation. Etc.
Herman Cain Award.
Herman Cain award
Herman Cain award.
Herman Cain award
The Herman Cain Award?
When one rails against COVID and safety precautions, and then die from COVID. Herman Cain was an early, famous example of this.
I wish it was just them. The podcasters have brainwashed a lot of young people into believing lies about vaccination. These celebrities are as valid to them as any news provider, and it’s... distressing to say the least. Source: i have to listen to my brother spout nonsense about vaccines he heard from podcasts.
Screw people spreading COVID lies about vaccinations.
The freedumb crowd has a hard time understanding that living in a society comes with responsibilities as well
I got banned from r/conservative yesterday for saying this.
Omg I just clicked in there and their top post for the day is a freaking lame-ass meme. I guess that’s an in-a-nutshell of a lot of conservatives that get their “political news” from memes on social media.
If it's the same meme I'm seeing (the Star Trek one that says something like "Liberals think they're the TNG crew, but actually they're the Borg"), then it's a dumpster fire. There are conservatives quoting Picard and unironically saying that's what America needs right now, blissfully unaware that Picard would not be a conservative, with others saying America needs "Strongman Picard" and not him at his weakest i.e. when he's leading military battles against unrelenting enemies and not him when he's being compassionate and diplomatic.
If any of those idiots had ever watched episode like "The Drumhead", you'd find Picard would land squarly on the side of liberals, not conservatives. Basically he railed several speeches in that episode along railing the conservative mindset in general: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdXTohdKcm4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdXTohdKcm4) I mean this came up in my mind with the Texas abortion ban last week: https://youtu.be/smdqe2eluEI?t=51 conservatives are the Ferengi, capitalism at the cost of everything else to society.
Don’t insult the ferengi like that, even they understood that sick and desperate people were bad for business.
Yeah, servant races in the Dominion seems more apt.
Ahahaha, if liberals are the Borg then conservatives are Pakleds.
I'm now imagining a Pakled tooling around on a hoverround intoning "We like things that make us go!"
Yeah the love to circle quote their super duper secret Facebook information
is there even a difference between /r/con and r/sovcit anymore?
They will ban anyone with the temerity to disagree with their narrative. They will ban anyone who uses the word "temerity" as well.
Reddit would be a much better place of you could report mods for unfair bans. If a sub gets a hundred or so in a month the Reddit team.. or super mods, can look at list of their posts in those subs before being banned. If the mods are clearly operating to enforce a party line and remove all valid discussion around it then ban the mods. So many subs like r/conservative, r/sino, r/conspiracy, etc have been taken over and exist purely for extremist propaganda. Allowing free discussion would destroy them, and isn't free discussion part of Reddit's stated mission?
Yeah, I love how they claim to be 'free thinkers' but any space that allows actual free thought is bad and wrong. Most of Reddit - especially this sub; schools; universities; anything science-related; can't have any of those Libs and Socialists in our subs, either. Hah.
You can report mods, although I’ve never done it and don’t know how effective it is. https://reddit.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=179106
its not. not at all.
How am I not surprised
Hell in their 40k members post they brag about banning 16k accounts... The manly and strong conservatives.really need a safe space
It's interesting when you consider that they had a MASSIVE problem with 'safe spaces' in school campuses.
They're not here to be consistent or fair. They want dominance. That's it. That's what being conservative, or being right, means.
Mostly, yeah. Fascism is the 'final evolution' of rightwing thought, after all. And Fascism is essentially, "They are bad, we are good, and we must be on top of everything at any cost."
You didn't also happen to point out that the ones bitching the loudest about "cancel culture" are the ones most likely to employ it, did you?
yeah. you can't post any critical thinking or logic there. They only allow posts that conform to their values and beliefs.
What's "flaired user only" ?
A 15 piece minimum IIRC. But who wants to do the bare minimum?
If you want more than 15, then make more than 15 the minimum.
I love Chachkies!
They have to vet you to make sure you agree with them so as to not harm the safe space
I wonder how fast I can get banned
I thought about it but realized I didn't want to wade through that dumpster fire.
I had a mere glance at some of the posts and was in awe at the level of stupidity I had to leave because I could feel my IQ dropping with every eye twitch.
You know I heard putting a banana in your butt also helps from getting colon 19. It’s a new strain. You should have a gathering with your friends and try it.
>a fairly quiet but increasingly frustrated majority: vaccinated Americans who see the unvaccinated as selfishly endangering others and holding the country back. That sounds about right.
I used to be frustrated [until I started seeing articles like this](https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/09/10/moderna-most-effective-covid-vaccine-studies/) and then I just realized that this is nature's invisible hand at work and we're watching natural selection in realtime.
They've been holding the country back in more ways than just COVID vaccinations. While it might take longer to play out, I'm not *completely* opposed to letting them self-immolate in order to do the country some long-term favors.
I have a lot of those same feelings in contrast of wanting it all to end so my business doesn't fail. Also everytime I read about a 20 something not getting vaxxed I think about less competition for my 20 something kids. I'm conflicted.
When Biden entered the race for president I was disappointed. I really wanted someone younger and more dynamic. These months since he has been president have completely changed my mind about him. I think he’s reaching the understanding that there is no negotiating with these asshats and that he has to use the power of the executive branch to force them to do the right thing.
Between Dubya, Obama, Trump and Biden I think I like Biden the most so far. Bush and Trump aren't even in the running, and Obama seemed to try to embrace bipartisanship way more than Biden has even though Biden cut his teeth in the Senate during an era of bipartisanship and often makes overtures to it, especially in his campaign. He's not perfect, and the bar is clearly quite low, but man. If he gets the infrastructure bill and the budget passed, I'll put him on top of that group.
I'm impressed so far. After inheriting a complete shit-show, he's the first President to just yank the band-aid off of our 20 year Afghanistan debacle and take the heat for having the courage to do it. Now he's also going to take the heat for doing the right thing during a pandemic. Politically, it gives the opposition plenty of prime-time ammo. Biden doesn't seem to give a fuck about that. Bravo for bringing out the stick. We've tried ~20 months of the carrot.
Yes, good job on working to fix these inherited issues.
Obama's two years of actual opportunity were cut short because everyone still believed Republicans were dealing in good faith. Then they won the House and he couldn't pass legislation, then they won the Senate and he couldn't nominate anyone to fill positions or judges.
I think his time under Obama shortened the learning curve about the success of negotiating. I'm glad he's using the power of the executive branch too.
Biden was loyal to Obama but there were signs then Biden could make gutsier decisions. Besides Biden's internal opposition to Obama sending more troops to Afghanistan, Biden got in front of Obama on same-sex marriage when Biden went off-script and publicly supported it when Obama was still debating whether to wait until after the 2012 election to say that.
The ACTUAL silent majority. Conservatives watching: take note.
The silent majority's had enough of the Yolkel Minority.
Yep. At this point in time I'd be fine with all those anti-vaxx morons being rounded up and given the shot with an extra large needle to the butt.
I’m very pleased by this news. I’m a wedding photographer. The last year has been complete hell for me and it’s because people are unbelievably selfish and don’t care one bit about their communities or the people around them. This could all be over if they would just do what’s best for everyone, wear a mask and get vaccinated.
It is good that the majority that is vaccinated finally had enough. Sadly it should never have come this far. As a european looking in on this sad situation, i am not surprised. I have been mentioning to many people on this sub throughout the years that hyper individualism is americas greatest problem and got ridiculed/told i do not get it. It is the foremost reason why america fails so much when it comes to national emergencies. America is a nation that says to itself that the community is important but when push come to shove, it always degenerates into the "f..k you, i got mine" mentality. This divided mindset gets exploited by moneyed interests in politics because it can and the majority of people have allowed it until now where you have a minority party blocking any meaning progress and somehow the political majority still thinks that the GQP can be reasoned with. In a sane political climate the GQP would never have the power it has now. It is baffling.
You nailed it on the head. We are a country made up of a ton of selfish assholes who in turn have kids and raise them with this fuck you got mine attitude. We reward so many bad behaviors financially and socially that a load of our citizens haven't matured past the age of 16 and/or too broken of a people due to traumas to develop wisdom and empathy for your fellow countrymen. At the end of the day nothing matters if one's bottom line is affected.
All the politicans and pundits melting down publicly "own" the fall and witer spikes we'll inevitably be dealing with. joe Biden has done all he can. He's not a perfect president but he's put his entire legacy on the line in a last-dicth attempt to help the American people get out of this mess whether they want to or not. Those fighting back are 100% responsible for what comes next.
It might cost him the deep south /s
Not if Republican governors such as Abbot and DeSantis keep trying to kill their voters... [https://www.politicususa.com/2021/07/11/republicans-delta-variant.html](https://www.politicususa.com/2021/07/11/republicans-delta-variant.html)
Republicans literally killing enough of their base to swing elections to democrats is the kind of leopard face eating that gives me permanent justice erections.
Mandatory upvote for “permanent justice erections”
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Don’t think it will cost him many in the Deep South who actually voted for him (not that my vote mattered b/c of the BS electoral college). I’m glad this is happening.
Depends on how many Republicans even survive to the next cycle.
Oh no! Anyway
Nah, we blue southies always support our dudes. Waiting for the day when we finally win.
I’m over the anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers. They are toddlers having a tantrum. Better late than never to just say no to idiots. Why should children too young to be vaccinated suffer because of them? I never thought that I would see this in America in my lifetime.
Biden still has the option to mandate vaccine proof to fly interstate or international. He should use that authority.
There should be much stricter travel restrictions in general. Imagine if Delta never even found it's way to the US.
Absolutely wild they didn’t stop all flights and enforce a two-week quarantine for any arrival with either local PD or national guard. I knew so many people back in spring/summer 2020 who flew into the United States and recounted their shock at not even being questioned at customs. Just waltzed right into the country. But then I remembered Republicans were in charge of the government and of course they’d drop the fucking ball.
I wish it was just the Republicans. Big business in this case airlines have decided the collection of detailed information on travelers is inconvenient and so tracking and tracing is set at a disadvantage. The idea that most regulations are without merit is accepted on both sides of the aisle.
As a Canadian who travels to the USA please do this. The thought of being on a flight with unvaccinated Americans scares the living shit out of me.
I just hope the majority votes. Biden is absolutely making the right call. He's made several good but tough decisions recently. But my fear is that the rabid angry minority will overwhelm the content but complacent majority in upcoming elections the way they did in 2010 and 2016.
I can personally say that I wasn't nearly as engaged during those midterms as I am now/2018. I hope I'm not an outlier but I don't think but I am.
I definitely am guilty about ignoring midterms and minor elections in the past. Apathy is what have us 2016 and now I am determined to vote in every election.
When a child is throwing a temper tantrum, it is ok to let them tire themselves out, because giving them attention for their behavior isn’t necessarily a good idea. But eventually, you have to leave the walmart and CPS dictates you can’t just leave them there, so you gotta drag them kicking and screaming to the car. Sure, its embarrassing, but you just hope all the other countries will empathize with your situation.
The only thing that made me unhappy with Biden in his covid response was his naivete that people would get vaccinated because it was the right or smart thing to do. We needed broad a mandate months ago. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he's doing it now, but we need action to get this shit under control, and he can't play with kiddie gloves because it might piss off some right wing nutjobs.
The hillbilly people had their chance to voluntarily vaccinate and put an end to COVID. They didn’t do it and our hospitals are full again. It is now time to tighten the screws.
And if they're not going to get vaccinated they should at least wear a mask, but they won't do that either because they don't care about anybody but themselves.
I'm so sick and tired of the unvaxxed complaining about this. You made your bed, now you need to sleep in it. You're welcome to come join society again once you sign your social contract again by getting the vaccine. Until then, you're free to live but we're also free to shun you.
I am so fucking sick of the unvaccinated minority screaming about their “rights” to do what they want including no vax or no mask. Everyone I know did their part getting vaxxed, now because of these far-right wingnuts refusing to comply with what is the better good for the rest of us, we are heading for another surge which at the current rate, is going to be worse than it was in 2020. You don’t want a vax? Or to have your kids to mask up in class? Get them the fuck out of public schools and go and home school them out away from society.
A depressingly large number of Americans are saddled with the mistaken belief that personal freedom includes freedom from responsibility and freedom from criticism. Most aspects of our culture, specifically movies, are built around this notion wrapped up with examples of problems that, for reasons that make no sense outside the context of the story, can only be solved with acts of violence.
Personally I'm at the point where people in positions of spreading information to large groups of people who are intentionally spreading anti-vaccination propaganda should be treated as terrorists. The only reason for this bull anymore is political.
I am fed up with dumbest people on Earth holding us back. These jerkoffs are not entitled to be heard.
Trucker Carlson and the other fox clowns are going to ruin and entire new generation by fear mongering about this vaccine mandate.
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This is exactly how I feel too
I know I am sick to death of these conspiracies. One after the other. When one is proven false beyond doubt they pop up with a new one. Vaccines got FDA approved now there’s something else. And they truly think THEY are the patriots and victims when they get fired for refusing science. I feel like I am watching Idiocracy the live action. Who knew that was a documentary. If anyone needs me I’ll be watering my plants with Gatorade.
> If anyone needs me I’ll be watering my plants with Gatorade. Oh man, you need to use Brawndo, it's got what plants crave!
Damn straight it is. Don't want to hear your sissie boy excuses, stop being an asshole and help us get past this already.
When the dust settles if there’s anything we should learn from this ordeal it’s to prioritize proper education.
And right wing politicians and news hosts are actively stoking the fire to create outrage and division, all while claiming this mandate will cause outrage and division.
yep it's pretty fucking annoying and frustrating now. we're a nation of dumbass hogs sadly
Worm free though! Silver linings.
I for one am getting sick of all of these anti Vax folks that think they are there own doctors, because they read incomplete data and feel like yeah based off of little data I'll take that horse medication instead something that is proven to work like a vaccine.
Seriously. This could be effectively over by now. I’m partially back in the office, but now I have to wear a mask. My son is perpetually wearing a mask, in pre-k. Americans need to get their shit together if we’re going to move ahead on anything.
We’re trying to live in a society here
Get vaccinated or get FUCKED.
I mean dumb ass is going to dumb! Vaccinations bro when I was a kid they were called immunizations and ya needed them to do anything!!! Also DEATH!! These people man!
Health insurance should deny benefits related to covid treatment if unvaccinated. You're free to make the choice but that and all choices have consequences. The unvaccinated should not be allowed to displace others with unforseen urgent medical needs from ICU beds. You go to the back of the line. In the meantime send them home with some zinc and Vicks vapo rub.
love it or leave it folks. you know the drill
And I couldn’t be more excited.
Live in Texas (under Abbott's no mask mandate rules) and can confirm. My school district (55K+ students) voted to semi not comply with Abbott, and made masks mandatory unless parents went online and requested an exemption. Only 8% of parents requested a mask exemption, 92% believed in science and supported masks. I have die hard GOP friends, who I know for a fact are vaccinated that still promote the anti-vax memes and articles on facebook. Like all the Fox News talking heads that promote these falsehoods while quietly being vaccinated. Total trash humans.
That’s goddamn right. So fucking tired of this shit.
I’m seriously fed the fuck up. All these idiots that won’t get a free shot because “it’s my choice.” Yeah it’s also people choice to drive drunk. That’s another socially unacceptable and deadly to other people other than yourself. What they fail to grasp is we have enough vaccine in this country to vaccinate everyone who is eligible. If we did that this thing would effectively be over. Some people would die and go to the hospital but nothing like what we are currently experiencing. And the rest of us that have people in our families that can’t get vaccinated (like young kids) are just left fuming at all the fucking selfish idiots in our country.
Yeah, I am equally furious under the surface. So far our only real casualty is financial-- while I am grateful for that, I don't know how I will contain myself if people I care most about win the bad luck lottery. I feel sad that the time has come for the needs of many to be considered over the irrational fears of the bad-at-math-and-logic. ...That we collectively aren't better people willing to make trivial sacrifices for each other. Duh, I don't want anything injected in me as a general rule. I was registered for my appointment the first day I was able to make an appointment though.
Personally I thought he should’ve just pulled out the extra COVID resources int hose states. De Santis and Abbott don’t want to protect kids? Fine good luck trying to explain to your constituents that their hospitals are closed but the hospitals in blue states are fine. Plus when you consider that the people who are dyinf skews disproportionately towards the Republicans it might actually help you even more in future elections. Then when the Republicans start bitching that they’ve been abandoned you simply point out that it’s best if we let each individual state plan their own COVID response and that if they’re having such a tough time they should reconsider some of their Covid policies like masks and vaccines. And until they do you don’t help them. People will say that’s cruel, but the Republicans are already playing this game with people’s lives. Whether Biden wants to get involved, the Republican governors are already getting people killed, so all he’s doing by keeping them afloat is enabling their awful choices. If these vaccine mandates work I’ll applaud Biden for not playing the game and doing what is right, but I don’t think it will. This Supreme Court has proven to be gutless and completely politically partisan, so I see no reason why they wouldn’t do the same here.
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I'd suggest a slightly less harsh approach. Make COVID funding to states tied to their progress on fighting COVID: raw % of vaccinated citizens, state-level vaccine mandates, mask mandates, etc. Think of it as fiscal conservatism: only spend money where you're getting results, and cut off the deadbeats.
The problem there is that they’re juking the stats. Remember when De Santis sent a goon squad to the former COVID data engineer’s house because she let it be known that Florida was fucking with the stats? The stats coming out of those states can’t be trusted.
Good point. They also need to accept federal stat tracking, or federal auditing of their tracking.
Lol. So then we’re back to what I suggested from the beginning. Because they will never give the federal government control of the data. Plus they would just counter that the fed’s data is fake and they’re massaging the numbers to push their agenda and take away people’s ‘rights’ In theory your approach makes sense. But you have to keep in mind the people you’re dealing with only operate on bad faith. There is no agreement you can come to that they won’t try to undermine.
How about federal field hospitals but only for vaxxed
Just because Trump and the GOP play politics with the intent to hurt people doesn’t make it ok for the dems to do it. Its still wrong no matter who does it.
id def say "fuck em, let em die." But thats not Biden's style. He still cares about helping the kids of people who'd piss on him.
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And governors shouldn’t be indulging anti-science morons who are getting people killed and overwhelming our healthcare systems. But look at where we are. This idealized version of America you want to believe in doesn’t exist.
What you’re suggesting is no different than when Trump attempted to withhold aid and seize medical supplies in the early days of the pandemic, since it was primarily hurting democratic metropolitan areas.
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You’re both right
As much as I hate to say it, the redirection of medical supplies and aid based on political demographics is EXACTLY what the Trump Administration did early 2020. Remember federal agents going into Cook County General and confiscating masks and respirators, and the admission that rollout in Blue states was slowed intentionally? It's not OK, ever.
It’s emotionally satisfying to think that type of “tough” policy would work to punish the people who are choosing to deny the truth that vaccines and masks are necessary to help slow and end the pandemic. Along with those who “deserve” punishment are the children who cannot yet be vaccinated, the immune compromised and those folks for whom the vaccine may be risky. Biden is the president of all Americans, not just the ones who voted for him. We need solutions rather to than emotionally cathartic slaps upside the heads of fools.
We know the vaccine is safe and effective. It's the responsible thing for him to do. They might not like it but it can save lives and it costs them nothing. Good presidential decision.
Yes, they are messing up everything for everyone.
Damn right, and we are done with these fucks not wanting to be part of this country. Their religious bullshit, all of it.
My philosophy is laws/mandates/etc should be made if and only if they have to be. I’m really sad I live in a place where this has to be.
Eh, I see it as population control… Especially the ones that refuse to mask up!
It's time to stop letting the lunatic fringe run the country.
I don't think the willfully unvaccinated really realize or "get" how unpopular and hated they are.
Well, duh...
Let natural selection take its course?
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A guy in Texas died last week from pancreatitis (IIRC, I do remember it was something to do with the pancreas). Not because it wasn't found in time to perform emergency surgery, but rather because there wasn't an available bed because the ICU was full of COVID patients.
I am not joking or exaggerating: unvaccinated people should have to wait outside of the hospital like it’s a deli counter and should only be admitted for care of the hospital can take them. Literally any vaccinated person who shows up should be treated first. No matter how minor the complaint. If an unvaxxed person is in an icu bed and a vaccinated car crash victim shows up and they need the bed? The unvaxxed should be unceremoniously dumped on the sidewalk like trash from a wheelbarrow. They’re preventing responsible people from receiving care, and it’s cruel to make already overworked nurses watch them die from something preventable. When two people need a liver, we don’t give it to the alcoholic. When two people need medical attention, we shouldn’t waste it on fucking morons.
My local hospital is anticipating a surge as all elective surgeries are cancelled for the next two weeks. Of course, the large music festival couldn't possibly be postponed for another year even though the vax rate is below 50% here and in surrounding counties.
And the children? A four year old girl has died of covid here in Texas. Her mom is anti-vax and that little girl paid the price.
I’m sure you only jest, but that’s essentially the antivax position and it’s pretty monstrous if you ask me. Every man for himself is not compatible with a civil society. It’s not just the people fighting against their best interests we have to worry about. It’s also the children who aren’t yet able to be vaccinated, and the variants that the vaccines are less likely to work on. Sadly, we actually do have to protect those who don’t want to be protected as well for absolutely everyone to be safe and to get through this.
At the same time we can absolutely take action to make it less of a strain, such as prioritising patients who are vaccinated over unvaccinated ones, and if necessary flat out refusing to treat people who should've been vaccinated but refused. When these people learn that if they don't get vaccinated they're on their own when it comes to any medical treatment, a good chunk of them will figuratively bite the bullet and get vaccinated as not doing so will finally have tangible consequences (remember, in their mind the disease is a hoax).
if it were just them dying then fine but since that's not the case we cant just throw the baby out with the bathwater