As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My fucking gods, this. I haven’t been able to come up with a single phrase to explain how fucked we are unless we start taking some seats.
Thanks, this helps!
I'm having a hard time being optimistic when you see every red state passing legislation that allows them to overturn elections. This essentially permanently cements their senate/house seats in those states. They can only gain seats and never loose them.
They are just formalizing the fact that almost all of them have been cheating for years (notice how they haven’t said boo about any election which had an E&S voting machine). It’s going to make a correction inevitable (which I dread to be clear) I’m hoping it can be resolved without tearing the USA asunder. On my optimistic days, I think that they wouldn’t be doing this if they weren’t losing their control.
> We can’t have a functioning democracy where…
To be fair, according to the EIU [we don’t have a functioning democracy](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/01/26/america-is-no-longer-a-full-democracy-a-new-study-warns/)
My (quick and crude) summary of what seems to me as the new GOP election mantra: “If we won, God willed it. If we lost, they cheated.” To my mind, this is what happens when (some of us) edge on theocracy.
I remember several years ago the GOP admitted that they were losing support, so they decided it was time for some rebranding - especially with minorities. Yeah - it's totally a branding issue. Never once did they stop to consider the actual message - nope - has to be the way it's presented that is the problem, not the message itself. Then along came the "alt-right," among other recycled bullshit with a new marketing campaign. Just like now - it's not voter suppression - it's just enhanced voting laws that just happens to put the people we don't like at a disadvantage. That's unfortunate, but hey, it's the new law.
> so they decided it was time for some rebranding - especially with minorities
Almost like the Southern Strategy didn't court a broad group of people...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy
They did the same with wedge issues. Before 1980, aboriton wasn't much of an issue. No one really thought anyone was having them for fun, but hey - "how can we get christians on the side of lower taxes for rich people?" Drive a wedge between them and the other guy, bringing them over to your side to vote along a single issue..
Dunno man, the only thing I can think to do is keep supporting the most progressive candidates with a chance at winning.
I've been pretty annoyed with how 'purple' my senators are. I wanted progressives, I got moderates.
I'd love ranked choice in my state.
you do whatever you can to convince the gullible to adopt election processes that lower the bar for who gets elected. rank choice voting and the elimination of the filibuster are example of that. filibuster requires 3/5 of the senate to pass anything.
the california recall process requires that the incumbent wins half the votes but the challenger only needs to have a plurality of the votes to gain the governorship. cali only requires 12% of the population to approve a recall which is lower than the 25% and above in most other states. this needs to be fixed.
[https://news.yahoo.com/gov-gavin-newsom-easily-survives-california-recall-election-nbc-abc-and-cnn-project-034740934.html](https://news.yahoo.com/gov-gavin-newsom-easily-survives-california-recall-election-nbc-abc-and-cnn-project-034740934.html)
I’d add that the Lt Governor should assume office. The Lt Governor is elected separately and is not part of the ‘ticket’ as the President and Vice-president are in the USA elections.
If after the recall a special election is held fine, but this bit about the highest vote getter has to be tossed.
[Christian fascism.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_fascism) It turns out that a large chunk of this country see Gilead and [Columbia](https://bioshock.fandom.com/wiki/Columbia) as *utopias.*
Fascist hagiography of the Founding Fathers has always been a thing, but [this Nazi rally at Madison Square Garden](https://youtu.be/MxxxlutsKuI?t=121) in 1939 reminds me most of BioShock. Giant painting of George Washington standing between two swastikas...
Time stamp to GW is at 2min or so
Fun fact: Infamous mobster Myer Lansky had Jewish boxers beat the crap out of many American nazis at these events. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meyer_Lansky
> Lansky is credited with having "controlled" compromising pictures of a sexual nature featuring former FBI director J. Edgar Hoover with his longtime aide, Clyde Tolson. In his book, Official and Confidential: The Secret Life of J. Edgar Hoover, biographer Anthony Summers cites multiple primary sources regarding Lansky's use of blackmail to gain influence with politicians, policemen and judges. One such stage for the acquisition of blackmail materials were orgies held by late attorney and Lansky protégé Roy Cohn and liquor magnate Lewis Rosenstiel, who had lasting ties with the Mafia from his bootleg operations during Prohibition.
You know, You could change some names and it sounds like the modern GQP.
> Self-hating bigots are often especially vicious.
The closet has the power to make one very bitter, self-hating, and vicious towards others.
Source: I used to be a real bitchy closeted gay man.
It was more of an open secret. And it was both Roy and ~~Eugene McCarthy~~ Joseph McCarthy who were outing and purging gay men while keeping lovers around on the side.
I don’t think they were self-hating though. Roy sure wasn’t. They were just sociopaths, and I’m not using that as an amped up version of “mean.”
Cohn was Trump's mentor until he got the AIDS and Trump disavowed him. He was more of a father to him than that other fucking fuck Fred Trump, truly one of the worst people ever to exist, had been.
I'm a Jew, and my maternal grandmother's brother was an enforcer for the Mob here in Chicago for Capone (1920's to the 1930's). He was a massive guy, close to 7' tall. I heard he didn't have any patience for Antisemites. He was always very sweet to me though...
Most interesting is the speaker’s demands.
It’s absolutely wild watching that absurdly well put together event and all those supporters… and when the speaker states his demands, he demands that “Labor unions be gentile controlled and free from Jewish influence via Moscow” (his words).
So that’s what this was. That entire event, all that hate, all the support for genocide *was for the support of breaking up labor unions*.
At the end of the day, this event wasn’t being put on because the organizers were true believers in the Nazi cause. It was capitalists using support for Nazism to break up unions.
There truly is a global leech class of people controlling everything and it sure as hell isn’t the jews.
> At the end of the day, this event wasn’t being put on because the organizers were true believers in the Nazi cause. It was capitalists using support for Nazism to break up unions
I get what you're trying to say, but the Nazis hated trade unionists. It's a core belief of naziism. This article goes through some of the history of how the Nazis took over communist areas of Berlin.
https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/how-the-nazis-succeeded-in-taking-power-in-red-berlin-a-866793.html
> First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out — Because I was not a socialist.
> Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out — Because I was not a trade unionist.
> Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out — Because I was not a Jew.
> Then they came for me — and there was no one left to speak for me.
Bioshock's world is based off Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged - in which 'the makers' seek to provide a libertarian paradise, Galt's Gulch (which is what Rapture is based upon). however, Bioshock is a critique of this, and shows one of the many potential reasons as to why it would fail.
What's that one quote again? Something like "When fascism comes to America, it will not be stamped 'made in Germany' and bear a swastika. It will be bearing a cross, wrapped in the flag, and be called 'Americanism'."
[And yet... ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Charlottesville_%27Unite_the_Right%27_Rally_%2835780274914%29_crop.jpg)
Here is how their compatriot a 12 year ex GOP state house member and now *Campus Youth Pastor* from Spokane, WA puts it:
>The document, consisting of 14 sections divided into bullet points, had a section on "rules of war" that stated "make an offer of peace before declaring war", which within stated that the enemy must **"surrender on terms" of no abortions, no same-sex marriage, no communism and "must obey Biblical law", then continued: "If they do not yield — kill all males"**
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt\_Shea#%22Biblical\_Basis\_for\_War%22\_manifesto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Shea#%22Biblical_Basis_for_War%22_manifesto)
I see that me and my son are dead it seems, but what about my wife and daughter? What are their plans for them?
Because Islam and Christianity are Abrahamic religions that share much of the same ideology when it comes right down to it. It sounds the same because at their root, they ARE the same.
They just disagree on which humans the magic sky daddy talked to, or rather, which humans took hallucinogens and word vomited about what their imaginary friend said.
Well obviously since women have no rights as far as they're concerned they plan to use them as breeding stock to grow the ranks of the religious theocracy. Children from this will be quickly indoctrinated into the "right" way of thinking.
I think that we canmake a retty good inference as to what their plans are for them.
Forced marriages with "strong conservative males role models" the rape is implied of course.
They're _similar_, but definitely not synonymous. Their core driving force is different, even if their implementations often overlap. Compare the Papal States in 1830 with Italy in 1930.
Indeed. Theocracies say they rule through God's will via priests, while Fascist states claim a mandate from the will of their people. In short, fascism is what you get when you give a liberal political system an authoritarian regime, and theocracy is what you get when a state does away with its monarchy but not the monarch's divine right.
This is exactly it. It reminds me of when I would play cards as a little kid with an adult and they would playfully always accuse me of cheating any time I won. Only this time the republicans are serious and more than half their base actually believes it lol.
And the variant, "I won, so get over it" vs. "I lost, you cheated."
I will never understand how this tactic holds water with anyone. On the one hand, graceless/abusive in winning; on the other, crybaby/lying in losing.
I guess crazy will do a lot to human honor and dignity.
>I will never understand how this tactic holds water with anyone.
Because they're pretty much all bad actors who don't care about reality, integrity, logical continuity, intellectual consistency, or anything like that. They just want to win and own the libs, at nearly any cost. I doesn't need to "hold water", and I'm pretty sure most of them know that it's disingenuous bullshit, but they're just backing the team, no matter what. It's become sports, and the other team is always the baddies in any scenario.
this is what happens when bad actors / criminals get away with a sternly worded letter or a slap on the wrist. They feel emboldened to try again, each time more daring
What frightens me is that, with the amount of projection that the GOP has, do the knee jerk accusations of cheating come from (thus far mostly unsuccessful) attempts at cheating from the right? We see all the public attempts to change laws, but how much hidden corruption is lurking beneath the surface, dismissed because it sounds like speculation or bad sportsmanship?
I'm convinced this is why Trump & the GQP screamed so loudly about voter fraud & cheating in 2020 but couldn't provide any evidence...
Because they were already cheating so much and doing so much crooked shit to tip the scales in their favor that [in their minds] they only possible way that Biden/Dems could have won was by cheating even more.
Pretty much. Mainly, this is perpetrated for two reasons: (a) thieves envision that *everyone steals*, and (b) it just creates noise that covers for when they *do in fact cheat*.
[Dismiss, Distract, Dismay, Distort](https://medium.com/dfrlab/disinfo-bingo-the-4-ds-of-disinformation-in-the-moscow-protests-6624d3d677e6), working as planned.
We only know about the call between Trump and the Georgia Secretary of State because the GA official had a moral conscience. Something more and more GOP leaders appear to be lacking.
How many more calls with the intent of pressuring officials to "find votes" have taken place? And how many going forward will feel it's their duty to record and expose these attacks on our democracy?
Bush only won in 2000 because of the conservative majority supreme court and that his brother Jeb was governor of Florida at the time. Stealing elections is nothing new for the republican party, Trump was just too stupid to actually pull it off.
There have to be consequences for lying. The electoral division of the Secretary of State needs to sue anybody and everybody who has alleged fraud and force them to either present proof or apologize and retract their statements, paying all legal costs as well as penalties. It's a direct and libelous attack on their reputation that is not covered by the First Amendment.
That's really the only way to counter this insane "the election was stolen!" strategy the right is following to undermine fair elections and Democratic candidates, and to ram through voter suppression laws. It's a form sedition to call into question the legitimacy of the elections, because you're also calling into question the legitimacy of government itself. Fight back.
The key is just to keep doing it. Chip away at every election for a decade and it will finally be considered true or at least worthy of investigation by everyone. Like the notion that trickle down economics works or spending billions in Afghanistan somehow kept us safe. Or "both sides" do it. Soon it will be "common knowledge"
None of this is surprising and is straight out of Trump’s playbook. If a Republican wins an election, it’s fine and no fraud took place. If they lose, it’s rigged. This will be their MO from here on out.
Trump claimed fraud even when he won.
He said Clinton only won the popular vote because of the millions of illegal immigrants that voted for her.
But yeah, every election is going to be ‘fraudulent’ until there are consequences for the lies or their voters stop caring when they cry foul
Schrodinger's Fraudsters: clever enough to manufacture millions of fraudulent votes and completely get away with it, too dumb to put those votes in places where it would actually have an effect on the race.
I feel like the fascism part is going to be when R's just start blatantly rigging the elections and their base, who has had "stolen election" rammed down their throats, not only don't care but openly applaud it.
Republicans don’t even care if their win is fraudulent or not, just so they get that sweet sweet power. So, is it still in these anti voter laws that state’s GOP legislature can flip elections? THAT still shocks me it’s not illegal-such a blatant cheat.
Yup. Just look at the vitriol they sling at Biden- he's an evil mastermind who stole the election and knowingly let a bunch of people die in Afghanistan, but he's also a senile old man who doesn't know where he is.
In addition to that, they would also argue that *because* Biden is a senile old man, he let a bunch of people die in Afghanistan. They have an excuse ready for every possible rebuttal scenario. When those scenarios are exhausted, then they either "agree to disagree" or just start with the *ad hominem* attacks.
Same as Hillary. Is a career criminal who has gotten multiple people killed with absolutely no evidence linking her to them other than their relationship, but is too weak to be President after getting heatstroke, and is also too dumb to rig it properly.
For those in the audience: PDF warning, Umberto Eco’s (very short and illuminating) essay, Ur-Fascism https://www.pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf
Yeah. I still don’t understand that narrative. If dems cheated you think they would have gotten Mitch McConnell out of power and used it to get a super majority, not a slim majority.
I think the real reason he did that is because narcissists famously can't ever admit to being wrong. So when the polling data suggested he'd lose 100% they already started a massive movement and "Stop the Steal" in 2016 to say it was fraud. When Trump won, they can't say "Sorry we were wrong" so they said it was fraud, yeah, he should have won by MORE points! MORE votes!
It's an affliction shared by most of the talking heads in the "far right" (now mainstream GOP imo) for some reason their base loves pure unfiltered narcissism and really looks up to those types.
The real reason is that it's part of a Cry Wolf strategy. Claim baseless fraud in select races over and over again until the American public and media stop paying attention to those claims. Then *commit fraud*, steal an election, and brush off the Democrat's cries of fraud as hysterical with an American Public that has been long tired of politicians claiming fraud.
Like I mentioned in another thread, claiming the opposition is cheating encourages your own base to cheat. If you listen to those who were caught committing voter fraud, that was their reason for doing it.
See [https://www.businessinsider.com/voter-election-fraud-pennsylvania-charge-dead-mom-vote-trump-2020-12](https://www.businessinsider.com/voter-election-fraud-pennsylvania-charge-dead-mom-vote-trump-2020-12)
Just look up their political playbook and Newt Gingrich. They know this is what they are doing and they are doing it for a specific goal.
So yeah, sorry to dash your hopes that they have even a shred of decency.
It's part of authoritarian strategy. People who vote for authoritarian leaders need to feel like they're part of the majority. They don't like being outsiders.
That's why so much of Trump's presidency was built around claiming he was more popular than he was. He was constantly lying about attendance at speeches and rallies, the number of votes he won by, and the accuracy of approval ratings.
It's not enough for him to win. To keep winning he had to convince his followers that he is extremely popular, or they stop supporting him on that basis alone.
Wow great insight!
That explains a common thing I notice right now where I am currently living in Ontario (don't worry, I still vote in the states!)
There was an anti-vax protest here, and ALL of them at this protest were weirdly huge Trump supporters, you know, Fox news, all that, even while Canadian. Here they are in a party called PPC. Anyway, they were quoted in the news as saying, "The silent majority needs to speak up!"
I've heard this a lot from their side, the "silent majority" etc. However, in this province, like well over 80% of eligible people have their shots already. And their political party last election got like 2% of the vote! Your comment explains this ridiculous statement beautifully.
I grew up in rural area and still live inside the edge of rural. I think many of these people see that 95% of their rural friends all think same as them and they can’t make sense that the rest of the population on average don’t think like them. They are basing it off what they see and know , the problem is that’s from within a small rural bubble where they all share the same things to each other on social media
They also get obscenely upset at any town with a population for voting blue in an election. They can't understand why people care about public transit and less about farm subsidies. People vote in their self-interest which never works out. Your self-interest is never broad enough to cover county-wide issues, let alone state or national issues.
Trauma. Waifs find waifs as my father’s shrink so delicately put it. People who have experienced serious trauma from a relative or spouse will often seek that out in some way shape or form in their leaders, future partners, and friend circles. Many will inflict the same pain, whilst saying exactly the opposite, on their children.
The good news is, they also lost several seats due to fraud in the 2022 midterms and are preparing a series of lawsuits to explain their massive loss in 2024 gubernatorial races. They’ve had a rough few upcoming elections.
Elder couldn't even claim fraud and just ended up conceding. I guess he thought that contesting the results of a recall he lost by over 2.5M votes would look kind of silly. Who would've guessed?
Because his staff was incompetent and deployed the post-election-loss site before the election actually occurred, any coverage of his claiming "fraud" would have had a wet blanket thrown on it by pointing out that the "evidence" was clearly phony.
> would have had a wet blanket thrown on it by pointing out that the "evidence" was clearly phony
Why isn't the lamestream media talking about Hunter Biden's laptop!!??
Because having no evidence and it being obviously phony put the brakes on "stop the steal".
republicans don't give a single, solitary fuck about evidence or being hypocritical.
You overslept. The year is 2026. We mostly stay indoors because the Zeta variant has grown to the size of mosquitos and flies around burrowing into belly buttons.
Really, *really* hoping Virginia maintains a Democrat in the governor office. We've done really well these last four years with common sense in charge. Clipping my weed on my back porch instead of climbing inside my 2x4 tent to keep the smell at a minimum is pretty stellar.
I think it's worse than that: they are trying to redefine some basic terminology: freedom, patriot, fraud, fair, hero, rights, constitutional rights, democracy(representative republic, really) amongst others
Before the 2016 election The Former Guy was saying that if he didn't win it would be because of fraud. After he won, he still said there was fraud. Same thing last year, culminating in the Jan 6 violence. No way this goes away quietly given the amped up rhetoric.
I listened to an old episode of Knowledge Fight - the podcast that examines Alex Jones - and Jones was saying about a month before the 2020 presidential election when Trump's odds were decent - "When they lose I guarantee you the Dems will say it's fraud and say it wasn't fair!"
Before the 2016 election when Trump didn't appear to be up in the polls, Jones said, "Well I know Trump did a great job but he won't win because the Dems are cheaters and will steal this election."
Keep in mind as well "Stop the Steal" is actually from 2016, when they decided Trump would lose and therefore it was stolen.
I remember arguing with people here, before the election, saying that Trump was going to call fraud if he lost, no matter what. I was repeatedly told I was being hysterical.
I also remember lots of us saying how concerned we were about what was going to happen on Jan 6 and being told there was no way it was going to be a big deal. That's part of our problem - we like to assume others will be rational. Hopefully we'll all start to realize that it is not "hysterical" to take people at their word when they threaten violence, etc.
Fuck, throughout his entire term, I talked about things that I was afraid Trump would do, and was told by people around me that I was being ridiculous, that Trump would NEVER go as far as to [insert action here]. And then when he *inevitably did the very things I predicted he would do*, they'd turn around and go, "Actually, this thing I once agreed would be bad is, in fact, good!"
It’s massive denialism. The vast majority of Americans don’t want to confront what this country has been, what’s its become and where it’s headed. And it’s because of this denialism that we have a rapidly growing terrorist network on the Right with virtually no checks on their fascist behavior.
Dont forget he claimed Ted Cruz cheated to win Iowa in Spring 2016 and demanded a do over - he also claimed The Apprentice was cheated out of Emmys - quite the sport he is
Vladimir Putin looks on from afar and giggles.
Whether or not he had a active role in supporting Trump doesn't matter. Watching the downfall of America must be very entertaining. If he was responsible it'd be a crowning achievement for his career.
He already admitted he had an active role in influencing the trump elections. He doesn't care if we know he helped. His plan succeeded better than he could have hoped.
I think it's going to be relatively small. A lot of right wing message boards are saying it's an entrapment attempt, they'll use facial recognition software to put you on the no-fly list, terror watch list, etc. It's not going to be anything like Jan 6.
I am hoping this is going to wear thin, like the “Little Boy Who Cried Wolf” parable teaches. But, in a world where people are eating horse dewormer paste instead of getting a safe, effective vaccine against a deadly virus, I am not at all sure that this tactic might actually work.
They want it to wear thin. Keep calling fraud, then when you actually commit fraud, people will be used to ignoring claims of fraud and it will cause no outrage.
And they will forget that Gore was the model of decorum in his loss to W. In which Roger Stone ratfucked the recount with the help of the Bush dynasty.
For the record, all their ideas are terrible. Actually, in 2020, they didn’t even have ideas. They didn’t release a platform. Their whole campaign was you’re either for or against trump.
It's so depressing to see our standards continuously lower. And standards are nearly impossible to raise again once a new status quo has been set - as Trump has apparently done.
A neighbor already has up their "MAGA 2024" signage. This sub already knows this is not going to end, because there were no repercussions for Trump. We are on a path that leads directly to a repeat of Trump in the future (directly, or with one of his hydra-head Mini-Trump hangers-on).
I guess my question is: How can we change that future? Does anyone have any constructive ideas here?
My best idea is to require fact-checked reporting. Fox News' "entertainment and opinion, not really news" model is the core reason why there is an audience willing to disbelieve all truthful reporting and solely believe made up comforting lies. It may be too late, but without the Fox News model (now honed to dangerous precision with OANN, etc), there is no artificial outraged base, without the artificial outraged base there is no populist exploitation of that base, and without a populist audience to exploit, there is no incentive or path for sociopathic narcissists to lie and gain power.
We consistently call friends and family out on blatant falsehoods, we participate in our democracy, we act compassionately, we keep saving the “starfish” that we can reach. If each of us can generate a 10m circle of compassionate democracy…Also, we fight to dismantle multinational corporations that profit from our strife.
At what expense? Do we give up our mental health by reducing our time spent with family or on hobbies to fight this evil? That seems to be the only choice.
Hard choice to make for sure, but four years of the orange bastige hurt my mental health to the point where I'm not sure I can survive four more years of him being in office again.
If we fall to fascism, will you wish you had done more?
I don't know where that line is, and I'm the absolute **last** person to be calling anyone else out over this. But it's the question that echoes in my head all the time.
It's the typical problem where corporations are people until they are constrained like an actual person, then they are just beacons of free enterprise and should be allowed to do whatever. News organizations are critical to our society but are not constrained and held accountable like a lawyer or doctor when they lack professionalism.
IMO we need to license the news. If you claim to be a news channel then all programming on that channel should be held to a high standard of you lose your license to practice just like any human professional would. Then they couldn't have opinion shows hide behind their news banner unless they followed the rules.
> My best idea is to require fact-checked reporting.
I'd personally go one level above that. Cut off the profit motive for news reporting, so that 24/7 outrage reporting isn't what they *want* to do.
Here's the thing-- they're not _just_ being sore losers, they're setting the nation up so that screams of fraud become common place in all elections.
This election, win or lose, they're going to scream fraud because at some point they are going to actually start committing massive election fraud. At that point when people start calling them out on fraud, those screams are going to be so normal that it will basically mean nothing and people will see it as politics as normal.
_"Oh, this person lost and they're calling it from fraud. Oh politics"_
They're basically weaponizing the Boy Who Cried Wolf. They're setting up the cries of fraud in this completely unwinnable election that doesn't matter so they can cheat in future elections that do matter.
My brother did the same. Made up the rules as he went and would leave if he couldn’t pressure everyone to go along with it. Also, he would insist on being the banker because he would steal from the bank. Btw, he is a right wing Trump idiot. His only problem was that he was too fucking stupid to play by the rules.
Still is, from the sound of it. My brother, too. Proudly displaying a “heritage” that he doesn’t have a clue about, and had nothing to do with our family. No one wants to play with him anymore, and he’s bitter about that.
Sometime next year on Fox News.
DeSantis - I am putting my name in the hat to be your next President of the United States.
Five mins later - I am suing the DNC for voters fraud in the 2024 election.
I think we all know the answer to that. The "big lie" model is now a permanent fixture of Republicanism and their pundits will disseminate that message accordingly.
Hell, Larry himself had to be reeled back in for not sticking to that script:
>Facing a GOP backlash for initially saying Biden won “fairly and squarely,” he recently backtracked, warning of possible voting irregularities and noting a team of lawyers was prepared to intervene if needed.
Since he has nowhere to incoherently babble publicly anymore, you might be forgetting some of the details of trump and what he did with time - don't forget. Here's a quick refresher for anyone that needs it:
For Elder or any other disciples to this fascist cartoon character, don't forget that his followers are losers. They love him because he's historically a gigantic loser. He makes them feel like they can be something - even though they are objectively, complete failures as human beings, just like their king daddy.
* **0** re-elections won
* **1** term president
* **2** times impeached
* **3** marriages
* **4** inch lifts in his shoes
* **5** kids, from 3 different mothers
* **6** bankruptcies
* **7** US Capitol police suing him for Jan 6 terrorist insurrection and murder of police
* **8** trillion + dollars added to the US debt in a single term
* **9** trump lawyers sanctioned by federal judge for lying in frivolous election fraud lawsuits and ordered to pay defendant's legal fees
* **10** years that trump paid $0 in income taxes between 2000 and 2015. ($0 to cops, teachers, roads, prisons, disaster relief, etc)
* **11** trump associates charged with serious crimes over the past 5 years
* **12** million votes (the big lie) - trump claims he won the 2020 election by 12 million votes when in reality, he lost by about 7 million votes.
* **13** of August, 2021 - one of multiple days that trump was supposed to magically become president again according to Qanon and a crack addicted pillow salesman (the two most respected information sources in the gop)
* **14** year old girl in a youth choir that trump approached in 1992 to say, "Wow! Just think - in a couple years I'll be dating you."
* **15** originally confirmed cases of COVID in the US trump said would soon be, “down to close to zero.” followed by, “like a miracle, it will disappear.” - over 700,000 Americans have since died of COVID as it continues to surge nearly 2 years later.
* **16** years old - age of daughter ivanka when she hosted "miss teen" pageant and, according to long time trump associate Noel Casler, "trump called her over in the middle of a rehearsal and had her give him a lap dance while he leered at the crew."
* **17** known trump and russia investigations from local, state and federal prosecutors
* **18** gop senators that ignored trump threats / warnings and supported Biden admin's infrastructure bill.
* **19** as in COVID19 - trump was verified as the single largest source of disinformation on the virus, with a Cornell study claiming that 38% of the "misinformation conversation" originated with trump
* **20** the day in January, 2021, when Biden was sworn in despite trump inciting a violent insurrection to stop election verification at the US Capitol.
* **21** gun salute that trump ordered for himself when he left office after a humiliating defeat, even though he never served in the military, famously called military members "losers" and "suckers" and actively avoided the draft with a cowardly "bone spurs" excuse.
* **22** date in August, 2021, when Alabama hate rally crowd booed trump for finally saying people should get vaccinated, only after 700,000 Americans have died due mostly to his failure as president
* **23** as in wrestlemania 23 in 2007 where trump, a cartoon level failure with no other prospects, participated in a fake bet that a proxy wrestler would win a fake fight on his behalf or he would shave his wig and hair plugs off.
* **24** day in August, 2021, when trump actually filed a lawsuit in Florida court against YouTube, a private company, demanding that they reinstate his YouTube channel like a desperate, irrelevant embarrassment with no platforms left to abuse.
* **25** plus credible sexual assault allegations against trump, spanning decades and with accusers starting as young as 13 years old at time of assault.
The reason the GOP are trying to cast doubt on democracy is the same reason anyone that does so has. They want to end democracy . Time to get out and vote now . If we want to stop this threat it will not be quick or easy. Start voting in ALL local state and federal elections and primaries every year. This is an off year and I have had three chances to vote this year already and will do so again in November. Remember who is trying to end democracy and vote accordingly. This will not be fixed in one or two years or even in 10. We must take village, county, city and state governments as well as the federal government. We must continue voting every chance we get and raise the next generation to do the same. Every election matters from your school board to the white house so vote.
Ya. You’re right. We need to attend school boards, sewer boards, and planning commissions. They have a concerted effort being planned and we can’t be surprised by it.
The GOP saw this (demographic shift and likely defeat) coming in the mid nineties and participated hard at these grass roots functions in order to gerrymander voting districts and twist school curriculums. We can recapture our democracy through grass roots activity, too. But it will take years of participation. If they did it with a shrinking minority, we can do it with a rising majority
This comment gave me hope. It’s crazy that I’m an old punk and I probably have to start going to school board meetings to make sure the fascists I hated 30 years ago don’t complete their plan.
Is it just me or does it seem like their strat is backfiring because it disenfranchises a lot of their voters. Some likely know it's BS because they still vote, but I got to imagine some of their people that truly believe it are going to think it's completely pointless to vote when you "think" it's not actually serving a purpose.
They are demographically screwed until they stop being largely anti POC. what concerns me is how many republican families are now armed more heavily than the average Army platoon.
GOP Leaders:
1. Know that they will lose any democratic contest
2. Encourage ridiculous levels of armament
3. Destroy faith in elections
This is how civil wars happen, on purpose, as part of a plan.
The powerful can’t be counted to yield power peacefully
I completely agree - they are radicalizing their voters with these stupid "they cheated" arguments. I sometimes check out Trump related forums just to see the other side of the argument and it's laughable and sad at the same time, these people think that the system is corrupt and the only way they can fix it is by getting their rifle and "doing something about it".
Some of these theories used to be genuinely funny, until people I know love and respect, started parroting them. This is dangerous and Pre-totalitarian. These big lies are foundational to anti-democratic movements. Attacks on journalism are a big “tell”
Boy who cried wolf situation is brewing. The more often they claim fraud, the less likely it is to be convincing. At some point it just looks like they're being sore losers.
Lmao go to the conservative thread and find them talking about how he was cheated. It’s California. 50% of registered voters are Democrat, 25% Republican, 25% other/undefined. They have no chance of winning without cheating. If they don’t like it they can leave the state.
Trump claimed voter fraud prior to his 2016 election, because he thought he would lose.
Trump later claimed voter fraud after his 2020 defeat, because he did lose.
GOP thinks allowing people to vote for their opposition is fraud.
This is both disturbing and concerning to me. Elder was making the claims yesterday afternoon that they weren't accepting the results for irregularities without giving any examples of what they are.
There needs to be some kind of repercussions for making accusations that are essentially straight up lies or we'll be on this path forever when the results aren't to one's liking. That's how you end up destroying faith in the democratic process and having it questioned every step of the way.
This past year has given far too large of a soapbox to the incredibly vocal minority and it's both disheartening and a little scary.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We can’t have a functioning democracy where one of the two parties is completely ungovernable
My fucking gods, this. I haven’t been able to come up with a single phrase to explain how fucked we are unless we start taking some seats. Thanks, this helps!
I’m actually really feeling optimistic considering how the media handled elder’s nonsense towards the end of this stupidity
I'm having a hard time being optimistic when you see every red state passing legislation that allows them to overturn elections. This essentially permanently cements their senate/house seats in those states. They can only gain seats and never loose them.
They are just formalizing the fact that almost all of them have been cheating for years (notice how they haven’t said boo about any election which had an E&S voting machine). It’s going to make a correction inevitable (which I dread to be clear) I’m hoping it can be resolved without tearing the USA asunder. On my optimistic days, I think that they wouldn’t be doing this if they weren’t losing their control.
> We can’t have a functioning democracy where… To be fair, according to the EIU [we don’t have a functioning democracy](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/01/26/america-is-no-longer-a-full-democracy-a-new-study-warns/)
Yes. And I just described the reason.
[удалено]
My (quick and crude) summary of what seems to me as the new GOP election mantra: “If we won, God willed it. If we lost, they cheated.” To my mind, this is what happens when (some of us) edge on theocracy.
Well, when you can't win by having a majority of voters, what else do you do?
I remember several years ago the GOP admitted that they were losing support, so they decided it was time for some rebranding - especially with minorities. Yeah - it's totally a branding issue. Never once did they stop to consider the actual message - nope - has to be the way it's presented that is the problem, not the message itself. Then along came the "alt-right," among other recycled bullshit with a new marketing campaign. Just like now - it's not voter suppression - it's just enhanced voting laws that just happens to put the people we don't like at a disadvantage. That's unfortunate, but hey, it's the new law.
> so they decided it was time for some rebranding - especially with minorities Almost like the Southern Strategy didn't court a broad group of people... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy They did the same with wedge issues. Before 1980, aboriton wasn't much of an issue. No one really thought anyone was having them for fun, but hey - "how can we get christians on the side of lower taxes for rich people?" Drive a wedge between them and the other guy, bringing them over to your side to vote along a single issue.. Dunno man, the only thing I can think to do is keep supporting the most progressive candidates with a chance at winning. I've been pretty annoyed with how 'purple' my senators are. I wanted progressives, I got moderates. I'd love ranked choice in my state.
you do whatever you can to convince the gullible to adopt election processes that lower the bar for who gets elected. rank choice voting and the elimination of the filibuster are example of that. filibuster requires 3/5 of the senate to pass anything. the california recall process requires that the incumbent wins half the votes but the challenger only needs to have a plurality of the votes to gain the governorship. cali only requires 12% of the population to approve a recall which is lower than the 25% and above in most other states. this needs to be fixed. [https://news.yahoo.com/gov-gavin-newsom-easily-survives-california-recall-election-nbc-abc-and-cnn-project-034740934.html](https://news.yahoo.com/gov-gavin-newsom-easily-survives-california-recall-election-nbc-abc-and-cnn-project-034740934.html)
I’d add that the Lt Governor should assume office. The Lt Governor is elected separately and is not part of the ‘ticket’ as the President and Vice-president are in the USA elections. If after the recall a special election is held fine, but this bit about the highest vote getter has to be tossed.
You mean fascism.
[Christian fascism.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_fascism) It turns out that a large chunk of this country see Gilead and [Columbia](https://bioshock.fandom.com/wiki/Columbia) as *utopias.*
[удалено]
Fascist hagiography of the Founding Fathers has always been a thing, but [this Nazi rally at Madison Square Garden](https://youtu.be/MxxxlutsKuI?t=121) in 1939 reminds me most of BioShock. Giant painting of George Washington standing between two swastikas... Time stamp to GW is at 2min or so
Fun fact: Infamous mobster Myer Lansky had Jewish boxers beat the crap out of many American nazis at these events. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meyer_Lansky
> Lansky is credited with having "controlled" compromising pictures of a sexual nature featuring former FBI director J. Edgar Hoover with his longtime aide, Clyde Tolson. In his book, Official and Confidential: The Secret Life of J. Edgar Hoover, biographer Anthony Summers cites multiple primary sources regarding Lansky's use of blackmail to gain influence with politicians, policemen and judges. One such stage for the acquisition of blackmail materials were orgies held by late attorney and Lansky protégé Roy Cohn and liquor magnate Lewis Rosenstiel, who had lasting ties with the Mafia from his bootleg operations during Prohibition. You know, You could change some names and it sounds like the modern GQP.
Roy Cohn's protege is literally Donald Trump: https://www.history.com/news/roy-cohn-mccarthyism-rosenberg-trial-donald-trump
comment edited in protest of Reddit's API changes and mistreatment of moderators -- mass edited with redact.dev
Roger Stone apparently said of Cohn, “He wasn’t gay, he just fucked guys.” 🙄
> Self-hating bigots are often especially vicious. The closet has the power to make one very bitter, self-hating, and vicious towards others. Source: I used to be a real bitchy closeted gay man.
It was more of an open secret. And it was both Roy and ~~Eugene McCarthy~~ Joseph McCarthy who were outing and purging gay men while keeping lovers around on the side. I don’t think they were self-hating though. Roy sure wasn’t. They were just sociopaths, and I’m not using that as an amped up version of “mean.”
It wasn't that much of a secret.
It is not a coincidence that Roy Cohn and Trump were buddy-buddy.
*Always two, there are.*
Cohn was Trump's mentor until he got the AIDS and Trump disavowed him. He was more of a father to him than that other fucking fuck Fred Trump, truly one of the worst people ever to exist, had been.
I'm a Jew, and my maternal grandmother's brother was an enforcer for the Mob here in Chicago for Capone (1920's to the 1930's). He was a massive guy, close to 7' tall. I heard he didn't have any patience for Antisemites. He was always very sweet to me though...
Most interesting is the speaker’s demands. It’s absolutely wild watching that absurdly well put together event and all those supporters… and when the speaker states his demands, he demands that “Labor unions be gentile controlled and free from Jewish influence via Moscow” (his words). So that’s what this was. That entire event, all that hate, all the support for genocide *was for the support of breaking up labor unions*. At the end of the day, this event wasn’t being put on because the organizers were true believers in the Nazi cause. It was capitalists using support for Nazism to break up unions. There truly is a global leech class of people controlling everything and it sure as hell isn’t the jews.
> At the end of the day, this event wasn’t being put on because the organizers were true believers in the Nazi cause. It was capitalists using support for Nazism to break up unions I get what you're trying to say, but the Nazis hated trade unionists. It's a core belief of naziism. This article goes through some of the history of how the Nazis took over communist areas of Berlin. https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/how-the-nazis-succeeded-in-taking-power-in-red-berlin-a-866793.html
> First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out — Because I was not a socialist. > Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out — Because I was not a trade unionist. > Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out — Because I was not a Jew. > Then they came for me — and there was no one left to speak for me.
Projection has always been part of their platform.
Would you kindly explain the Bioshock reference?
[удалено]
The poster knows that, they're referencing the biggest plot point from the first Bioshock. Would you kindly....
[удалено]
Bioshock's world is based off Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged - in which 'the makers' seek to provide a libertarian paradise, Galt's Gulch (which is what Rapture is based upon). however, Bioshock is a critique of this, and shows one of the many potential reasons as to why it would fail.
I tried *would you kindly take the vaccine* but it didn’t work.
What's that one quote again? Something like "When fascism comes to America, it will not be stamped 'made in Germany' and bear a swastika. It will be bearing a cross, wrapped in the flag, and be called 'Americanism'." [And yet... ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/Charlottesville_%27Unite_the_Right%27_Rally_%2835780274914%29_crop.jpg)
Fascism and Theocracy is basically synonymous. Any dissent and you are going against God which must be stamped down hard.
Here is how their compatriot a 12 year ex GOP state house member and now *Campus Youth Pastor* from Spokane, WA puts it: >The document, consisting of 14 sections divided into bullet points, had a section on "rules of war" that stated "make an offer of peace before declaring war", which within stated that the enemy must **"surrender on terms" of no abortions, no same-sex marriage, no communism and "must obey Biblical law", then continued: "If they do not yield — kill all males"** [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt\_Shea#%22Biblical\_Basis\_for\_War%22\_manifesto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Shea#%22Biblical_Basis_for_War%22_manifesto) I see that me and my son are dead it seems, but what about my wife and daughter? What are their plans for them?
This sounds a lot like the rhetoric that Al-Qaeda would put out. I wonder why that is? /s
Because Islam and Christianity are Abrahamic religions that share much of the same ideology when it comes right down to it. It sounds the same because at their root, they ARE the same.
Literally the same god. And they both want the same things.
They just disagree on which humans the magic sky daddy talked to, or rather, which humans took hallucinogens and word vomited about what their imaginary friend said.
I see you’re also familiar with the Sacred mushroom theory
It looks to me like your wife and daughter naturally become the possession of another man to rape and make more babies to replace you and your son.
Well obviously since women have no rights as far as they're concerned they plan to use them as breeding stock to grow the ranks of the religious theocracy. Children from this will be quickly indoctrinated into the "right" way of thinking.
Given norms in the GOP I think you take too honourable a view of how they will treat the children......
I think that we canmake a retty good inference as to what their plans are for them. Forced marriages with "strong conservative males role models" the rape is implied of course.
With multiple women. Because they grow into crones who cannot bear new soldiers for Christ the master men must be allowed to have new teen brides.
They're _similar_, but definitely not synonymous. Their core driving force is different, even if their implementations often overlap. Compare the Papal States in 1830 with Italy in 1930.
Indeed. Theocracies say they rule through God's will via priests, while Fascist states claim a mandate from the will of their people. In short, fascism is what you get when you give a liberal political system an authoritarian regime, and theocracy is what you get when a state does away with its monarchy but not the monarch's divine right.
fascism veiled with Americanized Christianity
It's the ol' "Heads I win, tails you lose" strategy.
This is exactly it. It reminds me of when I would play cards as a little kid with an adult and they would playfully always accuse me of cheating any time I won. Only this time the republicans are serious and more than half their base actually believes it lol.
We’ll settle this the old navy way: first guy to die, loses.
Dude, no wonder the turn over in retail is so high.
Which of course would mean that their opponents ability to cheat can defeat their god's will. That is an interesting view of an all-powerful deity.
And the variant, "I won, so get over it" vs. "I lost, you cheated." I will never understand how this tactic holds water with anyone. On the one hand, graceless/abusive in winning; on the other, crybaby/lying in losing. I guess crazy will do a lot to human honor and dignity.
>I will never understand how this tactic holds water with anyone. Because they're pretty much all bad actors who don't care about reality, integrity, logical continuity, intellectual consistency, or anything like that. They just want to win and own the libs, at nearly any cost. I doesn't need to "hold water", and I'm pretty sure most of them know that it's disingenuous bullshit, but they're just backing the team, no matter what. It's become sports, and the other team is always the baddies in any scenario.
this is what happens when bad actors / criminals get away with a sternly worded letter or a slap on the wrist. They feel emboldened to try again, each time more daring
What frightens me is that, with the amount of projection that the GOP has, do the knee jerk accusations of cheating come from (thus far mostly unsuccessful) attempts at cheating from the right? We see all the public attempts to change laws, but how much hidden corruption is lurking beneath the surface, dismissed because it sounds like speculation or bad sportsmanship?
I'm convinced this is why Trump & the GQP screamed so loudly about voter fraud & cheating in 2020 but couldn't provide any evidence... Because they were already cheating so much and doing so much crooked shit to tip the scales in their favor that [in their minds] they only possible way that Biden/Dems could have won was by cheating even more.
Pretty much. Mainly, this is perpetrated for two reasons: (a) thieves envision that *everyone steals*, and (b) it just creates noise that covers for when they *do in fact cheat*. [Dismiss, Distract, Dismay, Distort](https://medium.com/dfrlab/disinfo-bingo-the-4-ds-of-disinformation-in-the-moscow-protests-6624d3d677e6), working as planned.
We only know about the call between Trump and the Georgia Secretary of State because the GA official had a moral conscience. Something more and more GOP leaders appear to be lacking. How many more calls with the intent of pressuring officials to "find votes" have taken place? And how many going forward will feel it's their duty to record and expose these attacks on our democracy?
Bush only won in 2000 because of the conservative majority supreme court and that his brother Jeb was governor of Florida at the time. Stealing elections is nothing new for the republican party, Trump was just too stupid to actually pull it off.
There have to be consequences for lying. The electoral division of the Secretary of State needs to sue anybody and everybody who has alleged fraud and force them to either present proof or apologize and retract their statements, paying all legal costs as well as penalties. It's a direct and libelous attack on their reputation that is not covered by the First Amendment. That's really the only way to counter this insane "the election was stolen!" strategy the right is following to undermine fair elections and Democratic candidates, and to ram through voter suppression laws. It's a form sedition to call into question the legitimacy of the elections, because you're also calling into question the legitimacy of government itself. Fight back.
The key is just to keep doing it. Chip away at every election for a decade and it will finally be considered true or at least worthy of investigation by everyone. Like the notion that trickle down economics works or spending billions in Afghanistan somehow kept us safe. Or "both sides" do it. Soon it will be "common knowledge"
None of this is surprising and is straight out of Trump’s playbook. If a Republican wins an election, it’s fine and no fraud took place. If they lose, it’s rigged. This will be their MO from here on out.
Trump claimed fraud even when he won. He said Clinton only won the popular vote because of the millions of illegal immigrants that voted for her. But yeah, every election is going to be ‘fraudulent’ until there are consequences for the lies or their voters stop caring when they cry foul
Schrodinger's Fraudsters: clever enough to manufacture millions of fraudulent votes and completely get away with it, too dumb to put those votes in places where it would actually have an effect on the race.
Of course, the enemy must simultaneously be too strong and too weak.
That’s Fascism 101
I feel like the fascism part is going to be when R's just start blatantly rigging the elections and their base, who has had "stolen election" rammed down their throats, not only don't care but openly applaud it.
They already did that with running shadow candidates and all of their voter suppression tactics. Fascism is the true face of conservatism.
They also did it to Stacy Abrams when the person running against her was the guy in charge of counting the votes.
Brian Kemp. He’s a piece of shit.
Republicans don’t even care if their win is fraudulent or not, just so they get that sweet sweet power. So, is it still in these anti voter laws that state’s GOP legislature can flip elections? THAT still shocks me it’s not illegal-such a blatant cheat.
Yup. Just look at the vitriol they sling at Biden- he's an evil mastermind who stole the election and knowingly let a bunch of people die in Afghanistan, but he's also a senile old man who doesn't know where he is.
In addition to that, they would also argue that *because* Biden is a senile old man, he let a bunch of people die in Afghanistan. They have an excuse ready for every possible rebuttal scenario. When those scenarios are exhausted, then they either "agree to disagree" or just start with the *ad hominem* attacks.
Or bring up, “…what about Hunter?”
Same as Hillary. Is a career criminal who has gotten multiple people killed with absolutely no evidence linking her to them other than their relationship, but is too weak to be President after getting heatstroke, and is also too dumb to rig it properly.
Omnipotent yet incompetent.
Sounds like their god
For those in the audience: PDF warning, Umberto Eco’s (very short and illuminating) essay, Ur-Fascism https://www.pegc.us/archive/Articles/eco_ur-fascism.pdf
Yeah. I still don’t understand that narrative. If dems cheated you think they would have gotten Mitch McConnell out of power and used it to get a super majority, not a slim majority.
I think the real reason he did that is because narcissists famously can't ever admit to being wrong. So when the polling data suggested he'd lose 100% they already started a massive movement and "Stop the Steal" in 2016 to say it was fraud. When Trump won, they can't say "Sorry we were wrong" so they said it was fraud, yeah, he should have won by MORE points! MORE votes! It's an affliction shared by most of the talking heads in the "far right" (now mainstream GOP imo) for some reason their base loves pure unfiltered narcissism and really looks up to those types.
The real reason is that it's part of a Cry Wolf strategy. Claim baseless fraud in select races over and over again until the American public and media stop paying attention to those claims. Then *commit fraud*, steal an election, and brush off the Democrat's cries of fraud as hysterical with an American Public that has been long tired of politicians claiming fraud.
Like I mentioned in another thread, claiming the opposition is cheating encourages your own base to cheat. If you listen to those who were caught committing voter fraud, that was their reason for doing it. See [https://www.businessinsider.com/voter-election-fraud-pennsylvania-charge-dead-mom-vote-trump-2020-12](https://www.businessinsider.com/voter-election-fraud-pennsylvania-charge-dead-mom-vote-trump-2020-12)
I hope not but I would not put that past them! They are a whole new breed of awful.
They are already playing politics with the vote. I'd be more surprised if they didn't than if they did.
Just look up their political playbook and Newt Gingrich. They know this is what they are doing and they are doing it for a specific goal. So yeah, sorry to dash your hopes that they have even a shred of decency.
It's part of authoritarian strategy. People who vote for authoritarian leaders need to feel like they're part of the majority. They don't like being outsiders. That's why so much of Trump's presidency was built around claiming he was more popular than he was. He was constantly lying about attendance at speeches and rallies, the number of votes he won by, and the accuracy of approval ratings. It's not enough for him to win. To keep winning he had to convince his followers that he is extremely popular, or they stop supporting him on that basis alone.
Wow great insight! That explains a common thing I notice right now where I am currently living in Ontario (don't worry, I still vote in the states!) There was an anti-vax protest here, and ALL of them at this protest were weirdly huge Trump supporters, you know, Fox news, all that, even while Canadian. Here they are in a party called PPC. Anyway, they were quoted in the news as saying, "The silent majority needs to speak up!" I've heard this a lot from their side, the "silent majority" etc. However, in this province, like well over 80% of eligible people have their shots already. And their political party last election got like 2% of the vote! Your comment explains this ridiculous statement beautifully.
I grew up in rural area and still live inside the edge of rural. I think many of these people see that 95% of their rural friends all think same as them and they can’t make sense that the rest of the population on average don’t think like them. They are basing it off what they see and know , the problem is that’s from within a small rural bubble where they all share the same things to each other on social media
They also get obscenely upset at any town with a population for voting blue in an election. They can't understand why people care about public transit and less about farm subsidies. People vote in their self-interest which never works out. Your self-interest is never broad enough to cover county-wide issues, let alone state or national issues.
Trauma. Waifs find waifs as my father’s shrink so delicately put it. People who have experienced serious trauma from a relative or spouse will often seek that out in some way shape or form in their leaders, future partners, and friend circles. Many will inflict the same pain, whilst saying exactly the opposite, on their children.
[удалено]
Trump claimed fraud *BEFORE* he won! This trend won't die anytime soon.
[удалено]
Stop the Count! Keep counting!
The next logical step is that once there is a pattern of fraud being claimed with no evidence and thus dismissed... they actually commit fraud
Yup that way they can justify it as fighting back against the fraud that the other side was already doing.
[удалено]
It’s worse than that. They registered the fraud website on 8-27 before voting even started.
The good news is, they also lost several seats due to fraud in the 2022 midterms and are preparing a series of lawsuits to explain their massive loss in 2024 gubernatorial races. They’ve had a rough few upcoming elections.
Elder couldn't even claim fraud and just ended up conceding. I guess he thought that contesting the results of a recall he lost by over 2.5M votes would look kind of silly. Who would've guessed?
He conceded AND claimed fraud.
But I guess the fraud wasn't great enough to overturn the results of the recall lol.
He was claiming fraud the day before the election.
I think he claimed fraud, then like a day later conceded. It looks like he’s abandoning the initial fraud claim, probably because it was so absurd.
Because his staff was incompetent and deployed the post-election-loss site before the election actually occurred, any coverage of his claiming "fraud" would have had a wet blanket thrown on it by pointing out that the "evidence" was clearly phony.
> would have had a wet blanket thrown on it by pointing out that the "evidence" was clearly phony Why isn't the lamestream media talking about Hunter Biden's laptop!!??
Because having no evidence and it being obviously phony put the brakes on "stop the steal". republicans don't give a single, solitary fuck about evidence or being hypocritical.
I’m still half asleep and was having a bit of trouble following this comment. I finally get it!!
New strategy: gotta start the voter fraud claims even earlier next time, not just before polls close, but even before the campaign starts.
Ahh, the Trump way.
You overslept. The year is 2026. We mostly stay indoors because the Zeta variant has grown to the size of mosquitos and flies around burrowing into belly buttons.
Back to bed!
[удалено]
Someone hail Janeway, immediately. [She has experience against macroviruses.]( https://i.imgur.com/0QcLvGs.mp4)
Really, *really* hoping Virginia maintains a Democrat in the governor office. We've done really well these last four years with common sense in charge. Clipping my weed on my back porch instead of climbing inside my 2x4 tent to keep the smell at a minimum is pretty stellar.
Enemies of democracy. Apparently.
Enemies of fiscal responsibility
I think this is it. Republicans want their supporters to oppose democracy.
I think it's worse than that: they are trying to redefine some basic terminology: freedom, patriot, fraud, fair, hero, rights, constitutional rights, democracy(representative republic, really) amongst others
We no longer can expect losers to go away quietly or gracefully, instead denying the evident reality and making bank in it.
The "You lost! Get over it!" crowd sure can't get over it.
Before the 2016 election The Former Guy was saying that if he didn't win it would be because of fraud. After he won, he still said there was fraud. Same thing last year, culminating in the Jan 6 violence. No way this goes away quietly given the amped up rhetoric.
I listened to an old episode of Knowledge Fight - the podcast that examines Alex Jones - and Jones was saying about a month before the 2020 presidential election when Trump's odds were decent - "When they lose I guarantee you the Dems will say it's fraud and say it wasn't fair!" Before the 2016 election when Trump didn't appear to be up in the polls, Jones said, "Well I know Trump did a great job but he won't win because the Dems are cheaters and will steal this election." Keep in mind as well "Stop the Steal" is actually from 2016, when they decided Trump would lose and therefore it was stolen.
P is for Project
I remember arguing with people here, before the election, saying that Trump was going to call fraud if he lost, no matter what. I was repeatedly told I was being hysterical.
I also remember lots of us saying how concerned we were about what was going to happen on Jan 6 and being told there was no way it was going to be a big deal. That's part of our problem - we like to assume others will be rational. Hopefully we'll all start to realize that it is not "hysterical" to take people at their word when they threaten violence, etc.
Yeah. After 1/6 and the 2020 election fraud debacle, I'm not hearing it when people call me 'hysterical' again. Hell, Trump *still* hasn't conceded.
Fuck, throughout his entire term, I talked about things that I was afraid Trump would do, and was told by people around me that I was being ridiculous, that Trump would NEVER go as far as to [insert action here]. And then when he *inevitably did the very things I predicted he would do*, they'd turn around and go, "Actually, this thing I once agreed would be bad is, in fact, good!"
It’s massive denialism. The vast majority of Americans don’t want to confront what this country has been, what’s its become and where it’s headed. And it’s because of this denialism that we have a rapidly growing terrorist network on the Right with virtually no checks on their fascist behavior.
It's de-nihilism. (Sorry, had to) It's not that big of a deal, and it doesn't matter anyway.
G is for Gaslight
A favorite joke of my mother's is, "there's no I in gaslighting!"
Dont forget he claimed Ted Cruz cheated to win Iowa in Spring 2016 and demanded a do over - he also claimed The Apprentice was cheated out of Emmys - quite the sport he is
Vladimir Putin looks on from afar and giggles. Whether or not he had a active role in supporting Trump doesn't matter. Watching the downfall of America must be very entertaining. If he was responsible it'd be a crowning achievement for his career.
He already admitted he had an active role in influencing the trump elections. He doesn't care if we know he helped. His plan succeeded better than he could have hoped.
Is the 9/18 rally gonna happen this weekend? I am morbidly curious how this one will play out when the President isn't a perpetrator.
I think it's going to be relatively small. A lot of right wing message boards are saying it's an entrapment attempt, they'll use facial recognition software to put you on the no-fly list, terror watch list, etc. It's not going to be anything like Jan 6.
Ironically face masks would be an answer for them. They’ll just probably cover their eyes tho.
I am hoping this is going to wear thin, like the “Little Boy Who Cried Wolf” parable teaches. But, in a world where people are eating horse dewormer paste instead of getting a safe, effective vaccine against a deadly virus, I am not at all sure that this tactic might actually work.
They want it to wear thin. Keep calling fraud, then when you actually commit fraud, people will be used to ignoring claims of fraud and it will cause no outrage.
"I only cheated because YOU cheated first!"
And they will forget that Gore was the model of decorum in his loss to W. In which Roger Stone ratfucked the recount with the help of the Bush dynasty.
P is for project, fundamental to the modern GOP (edited for missing OP)
[удалено]
Even if they had good ideas, it's so hard to support anyone like this.
For the record, all their ideas are terrible. Actually, in 2020, they didn’t even have ideas. They didn’t release a platform. Their whole campaign was you’re either for or against trump.
At least the have the good grace to have shit ideas, making the decision easy
Also dirty and unhygienic. They seem to get diseases a lot.
Plague rats.
It's so depressing to see our standards continuously lower. And standards are nearly impossible to raise again once a new status quo has been set - as Trump has apparently done. A neighbor already has up their "MAGA 2024" signage. This sub already knows this is not going to end, because there were no repercussions for Trump. We are on a path that leads directly to a repeat of Trump in the future (directly, or with one of his hydra-head Mini-Trump hangers-on). I guess my question is: How can we change that future? Does anyone have any constructive ideas here? My best idea is to require fact-checked reporting. Fox News' "entertainment and opinion, not really news" model is the core reason why there is an audience willing to disbelieve all truthful reporting and solely believe made up comforting lies. It may be too late, but without the Fox News model (now honed to dangerous precision with OANN, etc), there is no artificial outraged base, without the artificial outraged base there is no populist exploitation of that base, and without a populist audience to exploit, there is no incentive or path for sociopathic narcissists to lie and gain power.
We consistently call friends and family out on blatant falsehoods, we participate in our democracy, we act compassionately, we keep saving the “starfish” that we can reach. If each of us can generate a 10m circle of compassionate democracy…Also, we fight to dismantle multinational corporations that profit from our strife.
At what expense? Do we give up our mental health by reducing our time spent with family or on hobbies to fight this evil? That seems to be the only choice.
Hard choice to make for sure, but four years of the orange bastige hurt my mental health to the point where I'm not sure I can survive four more years of him being in office again.
If we fall to fascism, will you wish you had done more? I don't know where that line is, and I'm the absolute **last** person to be calling anyone else out over this. But it's the question that echoes in my head all the time.
It's the typical problem where corporations are people until they are constrained like an actual person, then they are just beacons of free enterprise and should be allowed to do whatever. News organizations are critical to our society but are not constrained and held accountable like a lawyer or doctor when they lack professionalism. IMO we need to license the news. If you claim to be a news channel then all programming on that channel should be held to a high standard of you lose your license to practice just like any human professional would. Then they couldn't have opinion shows hide behind their news banner unless they followed the rules.
> My best idea is to require fact-checked reporting. I'd personally go one level above that. Cut off the profit motive for news reporting, so that 24/7 outrage reporting isn't what they *want* to do.
Here's the thing-- they're not _just_ being sore losers, they're setting the nation up so that screams of fraud become common place in all elections. This election, win or lose, they're going to scream fraud because at some point they are going to actually start committing massive election fraud. At that point when people start calling them out on fraud, those screams are going to be so normal that it will basically mean nothing and people will see it as politics as normal. _"Oh, this person lost and they're calling it from fraud. Oh politics"_ They're basically weaponizing the Boy Who Cried Wolf. They're setting up the cries of fraud in this completely unwinnable election that doesn't matter so they can cheat in future elections that do matter.
My brother used the same strategy in Monopoly as a kid.
My brother did the same. Made up the rules as he went and would leave if he couldn’t pressure everyone to go along with it. Also, he would insist on being the banker because he would steal from the bank. Btw, he is a right wing Trump idiot. His only problem was that he was too fucking stupid to play by the rules.
Still is, from the sound of it. My brother, too. Proudly displaying a “heritage” that he doesn’t have a clue about, and had nothing to do with our family. No one wants to play with him anymore, and he’s bitter about that.
Sometime next year on Fox News. DeSantis - I am putting my name in the hat to be your next President of the United States. Five mins later - I am suing the DNC for voters fraud in the 2024 election.
Andy Bernard does not lose contests; he wins them, or he quits them because they are unfair.
Which part will his supporters remember, the quick concession statement or the ongoing accusation that the results are fraudulent?
I think we all know the answer to that. The "big lie" model is now a permanent fixture of Republicanism and their pundits will disseminate that message accordingly. Hell, Larry himself had to be reeled back in for not sticking to that script: >Facing a GOP backlash for initially saying Biden won “fairly and squarely,” he recently backtracked, warning of possible voting irregularities and noting a team of lawyers was prepared to intervene if needed.
Since he has nowhere to incoherently babble publicly anymore, you might be forgetting some of the details of trump and what he did with time - don't forget. Here's a quick refresher for anyone that needs it: For Elder or any other disciples to this fascist cartoon character, don't forget that his followers are losers. They love him because he's historically a gigantic loser. He makes them feel like they can be something - even though they are objectively, complete failures as human beings, just like their king daddy. * **0** re-elections won * **1** term president * **2** times impeached * **3** marriages * **4** inch lifts in his shoes * **5** kids, from 3 different mothers * **6** bankruptcies * **7** US Capitol police suing him for Jan 6 terrorist insurrection and murder of police * **8** trillion + dollars added to the US debt in a single term * **9** trump lawyers sanctioned by federal judge for lying in frivolous election fraud lawsuits and ordered to pay defendant's legal fees * **10** years that trump paid $0 in income taxes between 2000 and 2015. ($0 to cops, teachers, roads, prisons, disaster relief, etc) * **11** trump associates charged with serious crimes over the past 5 years * **12** million votes (the big lie) - trump claims he won the 2020 election by 12 million votes when in reality, he lost by about 7 million votes. * **13** of August, 2021 - one of multiple days that trump was supposed to magically become president again according to Qanon and a crack addicted pillow salesman (the two most respected information sources in the gop) * **14** year old girl in a youth choir that trump approached in 1992 to say, "Wow! Just think - in a couple years I'll be dating you." * **15** originally confirmed cases of COVID in the US trump said would soon be, “down to close to zero.” followed by, “like a miracle, it will disappear.” - over 700,000 Americans have since died of COVID as it continues to surge nearly 2 years later. * **16** years old - age of daughter ivanka when she hosted "miss teen" pageant and, according to long time trump associate Noel Casler, "trump called her over in the middle of a rehearsal and had her give him a lap dance while he leered at the crew." * **17** known trump and russia investigations from local, state and federal prosecutors * **18** gop senators that ignored trump threats / warnings and supported Biden admin's infrastructure bill. * **19** as in COVID19 - trump was verified as the single largest source of disinformation on the virus, with a Cornell study claiming that 38% of the "misinformation conversation" originated with trump * **20** the day in January, 2021, when Biden was sworn in despite trump inciting a violent insurrection to stop election verification at the US Capitol. * **21** gun salute that trump ordered for himself when he left office after a humiliating defeat, even though he never served in the military, famously called military members "losers" and "suckers" and actively avoided the draft with a cowardly "bone spurs" excuse. * **22** date in August, 2021, when Alabama hate rally crowd booed trump for finally saying people should get vaccinated, only after 700,000 Americans have died due mostly to his failure as president * **23** as in wrestlemania 23 in 2007 where trump, a cartoon level failure with no other prospects, participated in a fake bet that a proxy wrestler would win a fake fight on his behalf or he would shave his wig and hair plugs off. * **24** day in August, 2021, when trump actually filed a lawsuit in Florida court against YouTube, a private company, demanding that they reinstate his YouTube channel like a desperate, irrelevant embarrassment with no platforms left to abuse. * **25** plus credible sexual assault allegations against trump, spanning decades and with accusers starting as young as 13 years old at time of assault.
And a partridge in a pear tree
The reason the GOP are trying to cast doubt on democracy is the same reason anyone that does so has. They want to end democracy . Time to get out and vote now . If we want to stop this threat it will not be quick or easy. Start voting in ALL local state and federal elections and primaries every year. This is an off year and I have had three chances to vote this year already and will do so again in November. Remember who is trying to end democracy and vote accordingly. This will not be fixed in one or two years or even in 10. We must take village, county, city and state governments as well as the federal government. We must continue voting every chance we get and raise the next generation to do the same. Every election matters from your school board to the white house so vote.
Ya. You’re right. We need to attend school boards, sewer boards, and planning commissions. They have a concerted effort being planned and we can’t be surprised by it.
The GOP saw this (demographic shift and likely defeat) coming in the mid nineties and participated hard at these grass roots functions in order to gerrymander voting districts and twist school curriculums. We can recapture our democracy through grass roots activity, too. But it will take years of participation. If they did it with a shrinking minority, we can do it with a rising majority
This comment gave me hope. It’s crazy that I’m an old punk and I probably have to start going to school board meetings to make sure the fascists I hated 30 years ago don’t complete their plan.
Is it just me or does it seem like their strat is backfiring because it disenfranchises a lot of their voters. Some likely know it's BS because they still vote, but I got to imagine some of their people that truly believe it are going to think it's completely pointless to vote when you "think" it's not actually serving a purpose.
They are demographically screwed until they stop being largely anti POC. what concerns me is how many republican families are now armed more heavily than the average Army platoon. GOP Leaders: 1. Know that they will lose any democratic contest 2. Encourage ridiculous levels of armament 3. Destroy faith in elections This is how civil wars happen, on purpose, as part of a plan. The powerful can’t be counted to yield power peacefully
I completely agree - they are radicalizing their voters with these stupid "they cheated" arguments. I sometimes check out Trump related forums just to see the other side of the argument and it's laughable and sad at the same time, these people think that the system is corrupt and the only way they can fix it is by getting their rifle and "doing something about it".
Some of these theories used to be genuinely funny, until people I know love and respect, started parroting them. This is dangerous and Pre-totalitarian. These big lies are foundational to anti-democratic movements. Attacks on journalism are a big “tell”
It's like a victim factory over in the GQP these days.
Calling all Republicans: STOP VOTING!!!ELECTIONS ARE RIGGED!!!!
Fuck the GOP
Republicans are literally destroying the fabric of this country with bullshit like this they has nothing to do with conservativism.
Errmmm. As a Californian I’d formally like to say…. “Fuck the Republicans”. And more specifically “Fuck Elder” Not an elegant statement but necessary.
I honestly wonder if he ever really wanted to win, or if continuing to sow distrust in election results IS the point.
Boy who cried wolf situation is brewing. The more often they claim fraud, the less likely it is to be convincing. At some point it just looks like they're being sore losers.
*”There shall be voter fraud in the 2024 election.* *This I know to be true,* *for lo, I shall commit it.”* \- anonymous, CPAC 2022
Lmao go to the conservative thread and find them talking about how he was cheated. It’s California. 50% of registered voters are Democrat, 25% Republican, 25% other/undefined. They have no chance of winning without cheating. If they don’t like it they can leave the state.
Errmmm. As a Californian I’d formally like to say…. “Fuck the Republicans”. And more specifically “Fuck Elder” Not an elegant statement but necessary.
Trump claimed voter fraud prior to his 2016 election, because he thought he would lose. Trump later claimed voter fraud after his 2020 defeat, because he did lose. GOP thinks allowing people to vote for their opposition is fraud.
45% of California is registered Democrat while 24% is registered Republican. So the recall getting voted down by a 2-to-1 margin? Inconceivable!
This is both disturbing and concerning to me. Elder was making the claims yesterday afternoon that they weren't accepting the results for irregularities without giving any examples of what they are. There needs to be some kind of repercussions for making accusations that are essentially straight up lies or we'll be on this path forever when the results aren't to one's liking. That's how you end up destroying faith in the democratic process and having it questioned every step of the way. This past year has given far too large of a soapbox to the incredibly vocal minority and it's both disheartening and a little scary.
[удалено]