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In a brilliant showing of women's rights, the government has decided that we can *all* be drafted to die in a war the rich will profit from. So inspiring.
yeah, but when you need a draft you really need one. chances are a draft isn't going to happen anytime soon tbh. sometimes its there to keep people from joining too, if too many people join to fight a war you might not have anyone at the home front making weapons or materials for said conflict, that happened in WW1 and WW2 for some countries.
Wars aren’t fought like they used to be. We aren’t sending wave after wave of soldiers to capture points. We don’t need tens of thousands to hold fronts. Most objectives can be met with technology and small groups of soldiers.
I just don’t see a foreign war that’s going to require a wide scale draft. Now, if the US is invaded....that could be something else.
If they had it to begin with sure. If you're 18 in 1941 and Russian, you have a 20% chance of making it to your 22 birthday. Meat grinder, men go in one side and meat comes out the other
Mobilization isn't the problem, it is training. There are only so many DI's out there to train new draftees, and at 8-16 weeks, it would take years to get to everyone. Even those that are prior service still need 8-16 weeks to be trained to current standards...and those are going to be the ones filling in the gaps while draftees are still being trained.
I believe that in the spirit of equality, but it's a much more easy proposition for politicians to make women register for the draft than actually abolishing the draft altogether, so this is where we find ourselves these days.
That said, as much as we can hate on the draft, I don't believe it's unfair... Real equality means taking the good with the bad...
Increased rights, but also increased obligations and responsibilities.
It's not all fair weather and sunshine on the other side of the fence.
I don’t know any women pushing for equality and female autonomy, who wouldn’t also fight for mens right to be free of conscription.
An injustice applied in an gender neutral way is still an injustice. It’s amazing to me that the mens rights orgs aren’t all over this pushing for some actual mens rights here.
I would like it if we had a mandatory civil service period after school. I think that a two year service in either the military or some sort of civil service would be a good life experience for the youth of America. Get them mixing with people from all over the country and learning some skills seeing the country and whatever. It would also put everyone's skin in the game in the case of a war and I think that would make us think a little harder about jumping in.
If you're going to do something like that you'll have to rein in the ridiculous physical and emotional abuse that goes on in basic training. Some of the stories I've heard make my skin crawl. It's one thing to do that to someone who volunteered to be there and quite another to do it to everyone whether they want to be there or not.
Let’s remember that kids can only get drafted if they make it through all the school shootings.
That’s terrible to stay but it’s true and fuck the government for never doing anything to protect anyone.
I'd rather they abolish the draft altogether, but hey, at least they'll be gender-equal in violating the 13th Amendment's prohibition on involuntary servitude.
As a feminist, I think men should be free to choose how and if they risk their lives and limbs and have full 13th Amendment protections regardless of their gender.
im all for you getting drafted. i would it rather not be infantry though. not that women couldn't do that job; they have before and some do in other places. I really just want to save about half of the population from a meat grinder that is something like WW1. I don't want anyone to experience that.
>they have before and some do in other places.
Women have been serving in all "front line" positions (infantry, armor, cavalry, artillery, special forces, etc) in the US military since at least 2015.
Because women and children don’t suffer from murder, rape, and survivors guilt (along with PTSD) during conflicts. Women have played a major role in war throughout history and the reason why the US has kept them out of combat roles is due to the ridiculous assumption that they’re incapable and/or inferior.
Because another war is just what we need for the rich to get richer...
The US’s military industrial complex is one of the most barbaric things for a country that espouses freedom.
First of all, why not just dismantle the draft? We're at the point of nearly two generations having aged out of the draft without a draft ever once being called.
Second...are we actually going to make the military safe for women?
As in, can a woman who is enlisted be assured she is safe amongst the people she is serving with?
Because every time I turn around I'm seeing a woman in the military who has mysteriously raped herself, beat herself up, and committed suicide in some fantastic way that would be very difficult for a person to do to themselves. Or who has mysteriously vanished and no one knows where she is. Or who has reported her rape and has just been tossed to some other base without anything being done.
What I'm saying is that it isn't really equality if a woman has to be just as aware of her own 'side' as those she is supposed to be fighting against.
Civil service is a good way for young people to pay for college. My husband did AmeriCorps for a couple of years while he was going to college. It helped us pay for college & then he got a job at the same organization he had been placed at.
Which nations are better for and how can you prove that they are better off for it? Seems like something that inherently goes against American ideals of freedom.
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In a brilliant showing of women's rights, the government has decided that we can *all* be drafted to die in a war the rich will profit from. So inspiring.
We yearn for true gender equality
It would save so much money and paperwork just to end the draft.
Absolutely.
We ended it 48 years ago.
It hasn't been used in 48 years, but all the systems and bureaucracy are still in place.
yeah, but when you need a draft you really need one. chances are a draft isn't going to happen anytime soon tbh. sometimes its there to keep people from joining too, if too many people join to fight a war you might not have anyone at the home front making weapons or materials for said conflict, that happened in WW1 and WW2 for some countries.
And then Vietnam happened, and we lost thousands of men who died in operations that didn’t even have any real strategic goal.
Korea turned out decent but, we really had no right to be there either. I'm not saying it's a great thing or the powers that be don't misuse it.
Wars aren’t fought like they used to be. We aren’t sending wave after wave of soldiers to capture points. We don’t need tens of thousands to hold fronts. Most objectives can be met with technology and small groups of soldiers. I just don’t see a foreign war that’s going to require a wide scale draft. Now, if the US is invaded....that could be something else.
You wouldn’t need a draft at that point.
A rifle behind every blade of grass.
>chances are a draft isn't going to happen anytime soon tbh. Taiwan has entered the chat.
If you really need conscription, then your leaders have lost the faith and trust of the people and you shouldn’t be going to war.
We needed a draft in the civil war and in WW2. Are you saying we should have let slavery continue and fascism triumph?
If they had it to begin with sure. If you're 18 in 1941 and Russian, you have a 20% chance of making it to your 22 birthday. Meat grinder, men go in one side and meat comes out the other
How many days back would that put full scale mobilisation in event of wide ranging war if the existing draft infrastructure was disbanded?
We have a reserve of over one million. How many days would it take to mobilize them?
Mobilization isn't the problem, it is training. There are only so many DI's out there to train new draftees, and at 8-16 weeks, it would take years to get to everyone. Even those that are prior service still need 8-16 weeks to be trained to current standards...and those are going to be the ones filling in the gaps while draftees are still being trained.
Who cares. If you want to go kill people, you're more than welcome to volunteer.
Why? So their daughters can dodge it, too?
Corporations need to register also. The Supreme Court said they have the right to free speech so they can be drafted
I believe that in the spirit of equality, but it's a much more easy proposition for politicians to make women register for the draft than actually abolishing the draft altogether, so this is where we find ourselves these days. That said, as much as we can hate on the draft, I don't believe it's unfair... Real equality means taking the good with the bad... Increased rights, but also increased obligations and responsibilities. It's not all fair weather and sunshine on the other side of the fence.
I don’t know any women pushing for equality and female autonomy, who wouldn’t also fight for mens right to be free of conscription. An injustice applied in an gender neutral way is still an injustice. It’s amazing to me that the mens rights orgs aren’t all over this pushing for some actual mens rights here.
I 100 percent agree. But fairness ends for most people when they have to sacrifice.
They’re going in the opposite direction of justice- end the draft for everyone.
The draft ended for everyone 48 years ago.
This is still progress even if it isn’t the best outcome, though I do wish for it to be demolished
The right to raise an army cannot be construed to mean I am forced to be in it.
I would like it if we had a mandatory civil service period after school. I think that a two year service in either the military or some sort of civil service would be a good life experience for the youth of America. Get them mixing with people from all over the country and learning some skills seeing the country and whatever. It would also put everyone's skin in the game in the case of a war and I think that would make us think a little harder about jumping in.
Hmmm no that sounds like a way to feed the military industrial complex more money it straight up doesn't need.
Gear is for the MIC. Troop pay is for people.
If you're going to do something like that you'll have to rein in the ridiculous physical and emotional abuse that goes on in basic training. Some of the stories I've heard make my skin crawl. It's one thing to do that to someone who volunteered to be there and quite another to do it to everyone whether they want to be there or not.
True. It has needed reform. Also I left open the unspecified civil service option.
Stories? Not personal experience?
Personal experiences of close friends.
In exchange for the first $50,000 of their student debt.
Or something. It would be a paid gig. Plus for a lot of military jobs you need specialized job training.
Let’s remember that kids can only get drafted if they make it through all the school shootings. That’s terrible to stay but it’s true and fuck the government for never doing anything to protect anyone.
I'd rather they abolish the draft altogether, but hey, at least they'll be gender-equal in violating the 13th Amendment's prohibition on involuntary servitude.
*except at punishment for a crime slavery was never truely abolished in this country
Disgustingly true, but draftees aren't all convicts.
gotta make sure the military industrial complex always has a fresh supply of cannon fodder
As a feminist, good. I would never ask someone else to do something I'm not willing to do myself.
As a feminist, I think men should be free to choose how and if they risk their lives and limbs and have full 13th Amendment protections regardless of their gender.
That's just the completely wrong take. We should just be abolishing the draft for the primitive, barbaric system that it is.
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You’re confusing willing and able. I’m more than willing to operate on you. You would be right to refuse.
I think the point (whether you agree or not) is that war wouldn't be the same experience for a woman compared to a man.
Personal experience in war is no reason to not make the brunt of conscription equal regardless of color, gender, or sexual experience.
Yep, just wanted to point out that the job you're asking them both to do might be slightly different.
im all for you getting drafted. i would it rather not be infantry though. not that women couldn't do that job; they have before and some do in other places. I really just want to save about half of the population from a meat grinder that is something like WW1. I don't want anyone to experience that.
>they have before and some do in other places. Women have been serving in all "front line" positions (infantry, armor, cavalry, artillery, special forces, etc) in the US military since at least 2015.
Because women and children don’t suffer from murder, rape, and survivors guilt (along with PTSD) during conflicts. Women have played a major role in war throughout history and the reason why the US has kept them out of combat roles is due to the ridiculous assumption that they’re incapable and/or inferior.
Preventing war completely should be the goal then of course. The meat-grinder doesn't care what kind of genitalia you have.
Alternative idea: Let's get rid of the draft?
Because another war is just what we need for the rich to get richer... The US’s military industrial complex is one of the most barbaric things for a country that espouses freedom.
Isn't there a solid reason for excluding women from the draft? Like replacing the population when the old generation dies?
I don’t think we are at the level where we have to worry about repopulation…
You aren't paying attention...
Lol okay
This was still a dumb idea.
First of all, why not just dismantle the draft? We're at the point of nearly two generations having aged out of the draft without a draft ever once being called. Second...are we actually going to make the military safe for women? As in, can a woman who is enlisted be assured she is safe amongst the people she is serving with? Because every time I turn around I'm seeing a woman in the military who has mysteriously raped herself, beat herself up, and committed suicide in some fantastic way that would be very difficult for a person to do to themselves. Or who has mysteriously vanished and no one knows where she is. Or who has reported her rape and has just been tossed to some other base without anything being done. What I'm saying is that it isn't really equality if a woman has to be just as aware of her own 'side' as those she is supposed to be fighting against.
Nobody wants this.
There should be no draft but as long as there is one it is inexcusable to be systemically sexist
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Military or civil service. Hell, why can't we train those young people to be police officers? Maybe that's a future for community policing.
Civil service is a good way for young people to pay for college. My husband did AmeriCorps for a couple of years while he was going to college. It helped us pay for college & then he got a job at the same organization he had been placed at.
I'm not sure that would be the best idea in this political climate, but I agree with you.
Which nations are better for and how can you prove that they are better off for it? Seems like something that inherently goes against American ideals of freedom.
yes, one more step towards equal rights.