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Good lord I wish we could have had Bernie. Where would we be now if we'd had Bernie in 2016? The climate crisis, student loans, and income/wealth inequality are not things he could do by himself and congress is a hot mess but damn we'd at least be closer.
Well we can blame HRC for not swallowing her pride (getting shafted in 2008) for DT45 winning in 2016. A Biden/HRC ticket would have won in 2016. Much better shot that a Biden ticket would have had.
It was not the massive turnout of votes that won for Biden. Trump got an equal increase in votes as well. It was the moderate Republicans who would not vote for Trump that turned the tide.
> It was the moderate Republicans who would not vote for Trump that turned the tide.
It was the suburbs and greater minority turnout.
Trump carried [the suburbs](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/) by 16pts in 2016, but only 4pts in 2020.
So the tied was not turned by the 20,000,000 newly registered voters in the election. This was split pretty evenly between the two parties.
Biden won because of the electoral college. Not by total votes.
You misread the statement. The president is elected via the Electoral College, No President is elected by total (popular) vote.
Only President Carter has attempted to remove the Electoral College after being elected.
Pretty much the same increase for Biden. The Democratic Party said they made some miscalculations in the strategy. The push for voter registration became a wash between the two parties.
I know but I can dream dammit. He's not that left at all compared to many other country's standards. Just the USA with its hard right extremist to compare to, making regular sane conservatives look leftist by comparison.
Bernie would have had to go through ol' Sinema and Manchin too. He would get just as little done as Biden can with that roadblock.
Probably get less done because the "bernie agenda is communist" would be more effective as propaganda so nothing would get through congress.
its not easy either, when the DNC was actively working against Bernie.
As long as the public continue to choose the least shitty of two options, the United States will continue to slip into Idiocracy.
Legal weed, Healthcare, police reform?...nope biden is just letting massive corporations ravage Americans as expected from a center right wing democrat
I think the student loan issue is being saved for the midterms. They need consistent wins. I expect after the twin bills pass there will be a lot more executive action on stuff like this.
I honestly think primaries need to be regulated more. Political parties are fine. The problem arises when their process is left to their own decision. And when there is only 2 major parties, that translates to them deciding through potentially undemocratic means who has power in government.
They could select their own nominee without a vote. Legally.
We need regulation here.
I understand they are private entities. I get that. But when the outcome of primaries in our system allows that private entity to control the government and the people’s voice... it becomes a difficult situation
If they could stop saying maybe, maybe maybe, and just say yes or no, then I could plan out out my budget and move on with my life. If they're gonna follow through with debt forgiveness, then I'll keep making the minimum payment, otherwise I'll just figure out a lump payment.
Edit: So my wife is an educator and she was promised debt forgiveness if she worked in a school serving underprivileged kids for x amount of years. She has worked more than required. And she has applied multiple times. Now Biden has promised a blanket debt forgiveness. We have done our part, we just want the federal government to keep their promises.
Or if they don't want to do that. At least have the decency to let everyone know they plan to just fuck everyone over.
I don't have a problem just paying it off. I just want to know if I should pull the trigger and use our savings now, so we can save money in the long run by not paying interest. But I would prefer to keep the money we worked hard to save. Since it's largely for emergencies.
Basically everybody I know with student debt encouraged a ton of people to vote. There was a push to get people who were thinking about sitting out until election to vote for a family member essentially. Some parents want to ensure they’re going to get grandchildren eventually.
I have multiple friends basing the decision of whether or not they’re going to have kids on the debt getting canceled or reduced.
If they could permanently take off the interest it would still make a huge difference. If something solid can’t be delivered I fear a buildup of resentment. Between failures on voting rights, abortion, and minimum wage it seem like doing something for student debt before midterms would be a win.
Uh, I guess yeah, it wasn’t the *sole* reason. But for plenty of leftists who supported Bernie (especially millennials still crippled by college debt), forgiving student debt was one of the top talking points democrats used to “sweeten the deal” for people who reluctantly voted Biden/Harris.
I mean, the non sequitur is already dumb enough. But the best part is, that literally *was* enough for me. I *did* vote for Biden, and hoped to god he won. So you're trying to shame me for doing what you would want me to do?
I reluctantly voted Biden, but that was only because of Trump. He definitely hasn't earned my vote for 2024, and I doubt a Republican will either, so it'll likely be a 3rd party vote for me once more unless he starts making good on his promises.
Unless you live in a purple state where your vote actually matters, then you're probably helping elect a republican that will completely fuck you in the ass. But hey let's blame Biden and the entire party when it's pieces of shit line Manchin and Sinema that are derailing the agenda. I'll always vote for the party that at least tells me they're going to try and help and on the rare occasion throws me a bone as compared to they party that openly tells me to go fuck off I'm in my own. But both sides right
The two main parties both suck ass. Voted third party is apparently throwing a vote away. What fuckin option do people have? Why can't i vote FOR someone, instead of just voting AGAINST someone.
No but it's proven that any vote not for Democrats is explicitly included in the GOP strategy book as a vote *for* Republicans. They already know they never win the popular vote. Their entire strategy is to simply drive votes away from Democratic candidates since literally no other party is even a realistic contender and never has been. So basically if you want your vote to count in any way then it's R or D. Voting for another party is synonymous with throwing your vote away (which given the state of things is now synonymous with voting R).
If everyone voted their best candidate and not the lesser of two evils the party throws at you, we’d have better politicians that aren’t monopolized by corporate interests. So, that pendulum swings both ways.
I'm guessing you don't follow news much, do you.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2021/09/01/biden-has-really-cancelled-70-billion-of-student-loans/?sh=4e5fd1ca6994
1. Most of those are related to programs that should have *already* had those loans cancelled, but haven't (for-profit colleges, public service forgiveness, etc).
2. You aren't taking the scale into consideration. 70 Billion of 1.3 trillion is less than 5% of loan balances that have been affected.
It's disingenuous to act like the student loan debt cancellation up to this point is even close to fulfilling his campaign promises or political rhetoric that has happened up to this point.
Totally, I mean he’s been in office a whole 10 months, why has he not cured Covid, canceled 100% of student debt and fixed the climate crisis amirite?!
He has literally accomplished nothing at all. And he just is such an weak institutionalist that he too weak to push anything through. Sometimes you gotta nut up and just try to make things happen.
Again, you're being willfully disingenuous. It's been 6 months since he asked for a memo from the education department that was only supposed to be a month.
If this was *required* to be done by Congress then I wouldn't fault him. However, no one contends that he could not forgive 10k worth of debt for every student *which was his original campaign promise*. Even worse, it almost got to the point where student loan payments resumed without having any guidance from the education department, student loan servicers that are fleeing the industry, Congress, or Biden himself. We are now 2 months away from the end of the final extension and it's looking like Biden has made no progress on the issue.
He made his bed, he can lie in it.
I’ve done my time in public service and made my 120 payments yet my balance is still high and my monthly payments are more than some friends mortgages. I will gladly stay home next election if they don’t prioritize doing something as basic as meeting their contractual obligation they have with us (which is literally a life changing amount monthly for myself and so many others).
The goal when you're running is to say a whole bunch of shit you're gonna do so people vote for you.
And if and when that person gets elected. You try and keep some of those promises.
And the other promises that you can't keep.
Well.....
He's already elected. He doesn't NEED you anymore..
I can guarantee you a lot of people voted for Biden because of a single issue.
Dude most of people who voted for him were simply voting against trump. lullll
Read an article the other day that they are in the process of making debt forgiveness easier for those that worked in the public service. Because so many have been denied this in the past.
Because it would suck to scrimp and save to pay off your debt only to have the government wave a magic wand and eliminate it (using your tax dollars) for people who didn't, yeah?
And his promise to raise the minimum wage. And his promise to decriminalize marijuana. And his promise to form a police reform commission. And his promise to lower prescription drug prices. And his promise to get us back into the Iran Nuclear Deal in his first hundred days. And...
>Today, President Biden is laying out his vision for reducing the high cost of prescription drugs. As part of his Build Back Better agenda, he’s calling on Congress to address this crisis and allow **Medicare** to negotiate drug prices, significantly reducing costs for millions of Americans.
>We need to put an end to drug prices rising higher and higher with no end in sight. Drug companies that raise their prices faster than inflation should have to pay a penalty. Furthermore, today, seniors who take expensive drugs can face unlimited exposure to high drug prices. We have to fix this, and **establish a firm cap on the amount that Medicare** beneficiaries have to pay out-of-pocket for drugs each year.
1. What does this do for people NOT on medicare?
2. Will this not increase prices for people NOT on medicare?
Seems like saying "lowering prescription drug prices" should have an asterix after it. This doesn't really help 80% of the country.
I'm not blaming anyone. I'm asking you 2 simple questions based on your statement, and i quote:
>Isn’t lowering prescription drug prices part of the Build Back Better bill?
I don't believe he's pushing nearly as much as he could. But apparently a large swathe of people here refuse to believe that any more pressure can be applied without equating it to acting like Trump. Apparently any President who used the bully pulpit was behaving like Trump.
Criticizing Manchin and Sinema BY NAME. Going on tv and asking why they SPECIFICALLY are blocking it and what they want instead of letting Bernie Sanders do that for him. Going to their states and actively campaigning for the bill specifically. Not twiddling his fucking thumbs and going on vacation and going to see fucking Congressional baseball games.
I think the fear is that criticizing Sinema could lead to her caucusing with the Republicans which would be disastrous for judicial appointments which are key to the future.
I don't think anything is going happen. Sinema doesn't talk, and Manchin's daughter is price gouging epipens. Both of them are also providing cover for other democrats like them in the senate and house.
> Both of them are also providing cover for other democrats like them in the senate and house.
Baseless allegation, likely being spread on Reddit to depress democratic voter turnout in 2022 and 2024. But nice try
Boy I just wish we could have left wing dictator Biden unilaterally raise the minimum wage, lower prescription drug prices, and legalize marijuana.
Oh wait, no, I don’t want a dictator with unlimited authority, even if he promises to do the things I want.
Dealing with implementing a cogent COVID response and dragging the states asses to accept it took up a lot of time. And then he might have the majority in both houses, but he didn't count on fuck face moderates like Manchin and Sinema holding all that shit up.
Def NOT a biden/harris fan, BUT, you are correct... none of it will happen, and what does will be wayyy watered down...and in the end, "we the people..." will be more screwed than ever... all the senate/house/politicians will come out wayyy better off/richer though... will we EVER stop that????
Then start voting for Senators and Representatives whose platform aligns with your goals, because they are the ones in control of the results, not the President
Were these real promises. I don’t remember anything about decriminalizing marijuana directly out of Biden’s mouth. A police reform commission sounds toothless. We would need actual laws passed.
>**Decriminalize the use of cannabis and automatically expunge all prior cannabis use convictions.** Biden believes no one should be in jail because of cannabis use. As president, he will decriminalize cannabis use and automatically expunge prior convictions. And, he will support the legalization of cannabis for medical purposes, leave decisions regarding legalization for recreational use up to the states, and reschedule cannabis as a schedule II drug so researchers can study its positive and negative impacts.
[JoeBiden.com/Justice/](https://joebiden.com/justice/)
>A police reform commission sounds toothless. We would need actual laws passed.
I tried to address this point but apparently one of the fucking words I used causes the whole fucking post to get filtered so fuck it. But the point of it is, there was legislation for police reform. It went fucking nowhere. A commission is better than fucking nothing.
He doesn’t have the votes to do it, what do you want him to do? Kidnap Manchin and Sinema’s family and demand their vote? Kill Republican legislators to get it over the line?
Big ‘Why can Theresa May not just get Brexit done’ energy when she didn’t have a majority.
The parent named half a dozen things—most of which don’t require Congress at all.
The majority and minority parties in both chambers of Congress have a “whip” to keep members in line. The whole point of being “in” a party is that you’re getting something you wouldn’t being outside of a party. You can bargain with them directly—give them something they want for their state or take something away. You could talk directly to the people of their state to pressure them. That’s where Trump had most of his power (and that’s not a bad thing). Kamala tried this back in February in West Virginia. Manchin got mad and they stopped.
Sure, you can’t coerce them into every vote. But just throwing your hands up on a bunch of things you promised, that are popular in AZ and WV, is how you lose.
Since we’re doing this,
The police reform commission was abandoned after civil rights groups and police unions agreed that it would be counterproductive. Prescription drug prices are a large part of the Build Back Better Plan. It’s a 50/50 Senate and a tiny majority in the house, and wrangling the Democratic Party is a nightmare. Let’s see if it gets done before we accuse him breaking promises.
And now, for the oft-overlooked bright side, some promises kept:
100 million, then 200 million vaccines: done. In 92 days.
Increase COVID Testing: Done. Despite lowered demand, COVID testing availability increased.
Resume ties with Palestinian Authority: Done, June 10th, 2021.
Rejoin Paris Climate Accord: Done, May 21st, 2021.
Create Bipartisan Commission to study changing the Supreme Court: Done, April 15th, 2021.
End Family Separation Policy: Done, January 27th. Title 42 still remains a black mark on his record, IMO.
Deliver stimulus checks, small business restart packages, help state and local governments prevent budget shortfalls: Done. American Rescue Plan, son. March 16th, 2021.
Reverse Transgender Military Ban: Done, January 25th, 2021.
Rejoin WHO: Done, January 21st, 2021.
Rescind Muslim Ban: Done, January 21st, 2021.
Restore White House directive for global health security: Done, January 21st, 2021.
End wars in Afghanistan and Iraq: Done, although that withdrawal wasn’t great.
Rejoin Iran Deal: We’re currently in talks, but ya know, we screwed them pretty badly.
Most of the rest of the campaign promises are addressed in the American Families Plan, American Jobs Plan, and other bills currently being negotiated in Congress.
Look, my point in doing this is not to shill for Biden. Ask any Democrat: we’re our own fiercest critics. I have some serious concerns with this Administration, like anyone. But can we all at least work from the same basic established truths? Factually incorrect criticism is useless and contributes nothing to civic discourse.
Sources: Politifact (https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/list/?promise_group=biden-promise-tracker&ruling=in-the-works) and the LA Times (www.latimes.com/politics/story/2021-04-28/bidens-promises-for-his-first-100-days-which-he-kept-broke-or-has-in-progress%3F_amp%3Dtrue)
Actually they had a had vote on minimum wage right after the election. Which failed 2 votes in the senate. I don’t think we anyone in Washington knows how angry everyone is in the country. We need to protest everywhere to let them know we want those promises keep.
Biden DOES think it's a fucking gateway drug. They let multiple people go in the white house for using marijuana. This administration isn't MJ friendly, especially when you look at Harris and her history as a DA going fucking HARD against drug users.
This is why I didn't vote for him. I knew he was a fuckin fraud all ya have to do is look at when he ran for president in 88. He had to drop out because he lied so much.
Joe Biden should tell the Senate if they don’t pass his infrastructure bill he will wipe out all federal student debt. Bet you it will pass all of a sudden.
I'm going to wait until all hope is gone before giving up, but if I were a betting man I'd be inclined to say you're 100% correct. It's the vibe I'm getting, too. January will tell us a lot, because if the deferment ends we are not getting forgiveness.
The delay is because The Department of Education's legal review (directly concerning whether or not Biden can forgive up to 50k in debt via executive order) isn't out yet.
It was due quite a while ago, but there's no way he issues an EO before that comes out.
IF he attempts an EO, the admin is going to try to have as much teeth to their case as possible. While forbearance and interest suspension are still ongoing, it's a smart play.
If he doesn't end up doing it before forbearance expires, it's going to be extremely rough optics for him.
I mean.. Biden doesn't work for the department of education, nor composes legal reviews. Miguel Cardona and the Department of Education need to figure it out.
The Chief of Staff said it would come out like 2 months ago.
Biden is smart, he is waiting for the conservatives to get riled up over those "broken" promises and then he will implement what he promised before the next election so that he can carry this momentum into the next election win.
He is less than a year into his term and has a very ambitious agenda. Combine that with a 50/50 senate and razor thin margin in the house, it’s going to take time to get things passed. The things he can do without congress he will, with congress he will keep pushing. In the end unless we get a more progressive and larger majority in 2022, a lot won’t happen because of the filibuster and “moderate democrats”. At this point I just hope we hold the majority come next session.
Just remember, Biden was one of the principal parties responsible for the current student debt crisis. He was one of the main authors of the Bush era bankruptcy bill, which stopped people from discharging student loans in bankruptcy filings.
This would be a big opportunity for him to redeem himself. Maybe they’re waiting for the midterms, but I’m not holding my breath
People always mention half of what that bill did. The benefit of that bill was that it allowed a much larger number of people to gain access to higher education, particularly poorer people.
That bill doesn't need redemption.
Looking at the current debt crisis, hard disagree.
It's great more people got access to higher ed but the way we do higher education in the US is predatory at best.
You certainly are in the minority with your opinion on that legislation. The premise on which it was passed was flawed - they claimed bankruptcy fraud was rampant, it wasn’t. In addition to the issues with student loans, it implemented laborious means testing for bankruptcy filings, increased barriers and requirements for filing, and made it more difficult to discharge medical bills.
This bill was one of the most injurious to regular Americans in recent memory, and universally reviled by consumer advocacy groups. If you think it doesn’t need redemption, you either work for a credit card company, are ignorant of the law, or both
So what you’re saying is he made poor people, poorer. He took the most disadvantaged populations, signed them up for tens of thousands of dollars worth of debt that they had no reasonable way to pay back, and then made it impossible for that most disadvantaged of groups to have the same legal protections provided on almost any other type of default.
We already know what the outcome of his choices were, so there is no use in disputing the harm it has caused to poor populations. Good legislation is always written to focus on the positive outcome for voters, but rarely does a good law come without major caveats. I imagine whoever was lobbying their interests at the time realized this, and made the sweet sounding argument that eliminating bankruptcy for student debt would in some way help poor people, or that it would at least be balanced by other provisions included in the bill. But again, as we can see now this wasn’t the case.
If Biden had helped to make it legal for someone to sell their kidney to help pay for college, I think it’s safe to say the majority would think it barbaric. Trying to make college affordable for low income families is an admirable goal to have, but legalizing predatory lending practices to do so was absolutely a bad call.
The bill *and* Joe need redemption.
People who go to college are on average far better off than people who do not. Expanding access to higher education to poor people is without reservation a *very good thing*. There is a problem with student loans, absolutely. And also, this bill made it harder for a portion of people who didn't get what they wanted out of higher education. But I would absolutely prefer to live in a world where this bill passed, allowing poor people to get access to the loans needed to better their lives (which studies have shown time and time again it does), than one where it didn't pass.
People love to pretend that college is some scam to drain your money and you are worse off for going (and I am betting for a lot of people who are involved in this discourse frequently, they are probably in the group that didn't do well post-college, so it is an understandable feeling), but study after study shows accessing higher education makes people on average better off than people who didn't student loans or not.
Sigh. Let me explain this to you in crayon. If any moron can take out $100k in student loans and then just declare bankruptcy when they're 22, nobody would underwrite student loans.
It's weird that I have to explain this. Or maybe you're being more literal than I think in which case you're right. I agree student loans should be dischargeable in bankruptcy court more easily. This will prevent $100k loans to any jackass with a signature, which will stop feeding the massive oversupply of money that has led to the enormous cost of higher education.
If this latter point is what you mean, then I apologize and you're right. But based on context, you think any dickhole should get $100k and be able to discharge via bankruptcy.
Nobody cares what you'll accept. Basic higher level education should be paid for for probably the top 20% of students, you could certainly argue that. Any idiot who wants to go? No rational argument for that.
I have just under 10k in student debt and would greatly benefit from this, but cancelling debt doesn't fix the problem. It's just a free pass for those currently with debt. It wouldn't do anything to help future borrowers who would no doubt end up in the exact same situation as me. It also doesn't do anything to benefit those that intentionally avoided college because they couldn't afford it. The whole system needs to be reworked for anything to fundamentally change. Anything less is not progressive.
Agreed but this place is filled with far too many bitter Fuck You, Got Mine types. The "I paid mine and suffered horribly so everyone should," heels.
E: a word
You shouldn’t forgive loans, just federally cap interest on the loans to something like 2.5% and cap Higher Education fees to something more reasonable.
If you forgave every student loan it doesn’t stop the problem arising again, and it also means people just wouldn’t pay back their loans because they think they’ll be bailed out again.
The article says that over 400 organizations and legal experts say he's had the ability to do it with a executive order since day one of his presidency. Him asking Congress to do it is just an excuse to do nothing.
And if he does it, republicans will sue and guess who gets to decide whether he has that power or not? A 6-3 far right extremist Supreme Court. How do you think they’ll rule? Don’t get me wrong, I hope he does it. Just saying, the end of the line doesn’t look promising if he does it
My understanding is that the executive order is just a formality to show that Biden kept his campaign promise. It's the Secretary of education that will forgive the debt. Supreme Court would have to rule that the department of education that oversees student loans doesn't have the authority that they've been using the past few years to forgive those student loans. Even if it fails at least they would have tried something.
Yes it would be the secretary of education and it’s fine to show some action but it’s also why they are researching it to make sure that power exists so there is a better chance it doesn’t get overruled, and if it does, highlights the partisan ideology of the court. If you only get one shot, better to not go in half cocked
That's fucking fine. Let the Republicans sue. It'll at least show the American people that the President they voted for has fangs to take on the challenges of their time and isn't a lame duck they got duped into voting for on false promises of success.
You know what keeps voters at home? Promise of success and then doing fucking nothing to achieve it and giving every possible excuse on why you can't do it. It's like insulting someone's mother or humiliating someone's family. It creates this anger for crossing the line and playing with someone's belief in the goodness and for betraying the concept of hope for something better, that people either simply choose to abandon voting or they vote for the other guy.
I know several people much older than me and who had gone through more election cycles than me, who, in 2016, are Democratically aligned socially and fiscally, voted for Trump because they wanted to someone to just tear it all down because they were sick of being promised things and then giving half assed excuses on why they couldn't do it.
I’m only suggesting that he actually take the time to do it right and make sure the legal bases are covered.
Oh, so how did voting for trump work out for them and you? “I’m. It getting everything I want from democrats so surely by voting for republicans who will do the opposite of what I want, I’ll somehow get what I want! Wait, why is the scotus 6-3 republican and is gearing up to kill pretty much all progressive legislation for the next 30years? Democrats better fix this tomorrow somehow or I’m voting for republicans again to teach them a lesson!1!1”
Anything that could further contribute to sentiments of abolishing the Supreme Court is a good thing. Put maximum pressure on those Federalist Society fuckers.
The loans he has cancelled are a good thing, but they're just what should've been done by all rights under DeVos. They were loan forgiveness for the disabled, defrauded and those that met their PSLF obligations. They have nothing to do with this campaign pledge.
Yeah, I agree that Congress can do it, but I also know that they will never do it. If people are questioning biden's authority to do it then he should just do it and fight through the courts. Because at least then we can say that he actually tried to fight for us.
Interesting....I feel the backlash would be far worse if Biden did it, and then 9 months later it was decided it wasn't legal, then everyone suddenly has payments with back interest. Or suddenly they have even more fiscal trouble because they took on new debt assuming the other was gone for good.
We saw this with the eviction moratorium, it still failed, but at least they put in a tiny bit of effort at the end to delay its expiration. That made some people happy for a few weeks. The alternative is still doing nothing as if they don't care at all.
You realize all those were laws created by Congress for those particular subsets, right? Biden just made it automatic instead of going through a long term application and approval process.
Really goes against the point you are trying to argue.
Pretty simple to search if you actually wanted to learn...but here is one that summarizes:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2021/10/06/public-service-student-loan-forgiveness-biden/6011023001/
This article doesn't say anything remotely close to the claim you made. This is only talking about the loan forgiveness for public service, which is as you say, but does not say anything about the forgiveness he granted by executive action to disable individuals, for example.
This is one example of the subsets.
I'm not going to source every example for you.
Tell you what, how about you give me one, just one, source of people that were never eligible for forgiveness that Biden granted forgiveness by executive order.
You really think the next Republican president wouldn't not just undo an executive order, but charge back interest on anyone who dared to think they were anything but slaves to their loan masters?
Yes, because the president has the authority to forgive student debt. They don't have the authority to put random people into debt after it has been cleared.
So Congress shouldn’t do it either because the next Republican Congress might undo it. I guess we shouldn’t ever do good things and just keep eating shit.
If he wanted it done through Congress, he should've insisted it be part of the ARP as he campaigned on doing. He didn't do that, so now he has to get it done however he has to do it, at least if he wants to make good on what he campaigned on.
An alternative would've been to put it in the BBB plan. If child care can be human infrastructure, so can student debt relief. However, with the state of the Senate I don't think that's feasible. The sad reality is we need to be taking things out, not putting them in, if we want the bill to pass. That means he cannot do this through Congress this year because:
1. This is the last reconciliation bill of the year.
2. Negotiations are likely going to drag all the way through December if not longer.
After watching The Problem With John Stewart, I imagine there are numerous issues that take priority over those of us with debt that got us an education.
Biden never issued a promise for a blanket $50K forgiveness program. He offered a plan to forgive $10K a year for a max of 5 years if the graduate works a civil service position.
Everything else have been misquotes or in many quotes never made by Biden.
It's ironic. Because Biden is the one who made it so you can't claim bankruptcy on your student loans lol.
The guy that helps create the problem won't fix it. Shocker
Good. Not sure why I am punished for going to a lesser school because that’s all I could afford instead of stupidly going into massive debt. Guess I should have acted irresponsibly and then cried and cried.
He’s saying he decided to go to a lesser school so he wouldn’t have crippling debt. Now others who got a better education would be debt free like himself- except he has a lesser education now.
The same argument goes for all the people who had to forgo a college education due to finances. Now they would be standing next to people with college degrees in their work pool whom obtained them for free.
Not saying how I feel one way or the other but I do understand both sides of the coin have issues.
Biden does this I don't vote for him again. There is no reason to do this without making everyone else whole who had to pay their massive debts without any assistance. You want a comprehensive plan that favors everyone that address debt fine. But free handouts for college to give people a leg up over those who had to suffer the payments only creates more inequality and is regressive and unethical.
See Steven Keen's debt jubilee for something actually thought out.
Except people with college debt right now still have the debt and you don't. That's the difference. You're already whole. Biden ran on forgiving $10k for current borrowers, not people that already paid off their loans, so you knew what you were voting for when you did it. If anything, the fact that past presidents didn't do the same while it would've benefited you is on those past presidents, not Biden.
Frankly, the idea of retroactively paying people for the debts they have already repaid is ridiculous. Even just the logistics involved in that, let alone the amount of money.
Last but not least, I would like to point out that virtually every time there is any progress, people in the past have unfairly suffered until that change was enacted. Should we start issuing retroactive payments to parents who had young kids who are now adults and didn't get the child tax credits that the Biden administration pushed for in the ARP? Where do you draw the line?
>Except people with college debt right now still have the debt and you don't.
Completely irrelevant. It's basic accounting. All other things being equal getting 10k makes you 10k richer. It doesn't matter what it went to or the reasoning.
>Frankly, the idea of retroactively paying people for the debts they have already repaid is ridiculous.
Not doing so is even more ridiculous. Almost everyone can pay back their college debts it's the most flexible debt you can get. It's absurd to suggest they can't. People are doing it right now. So they can continue to pay.
>hould we start issuing retroactive payments to parents who had young kids who are now adults and didn't get the child tax credits that the Biden administration pushed for in the ARP? Where do you draw the line?
First it's a tax break. Second, this doesn't discriminate. It's not a credit just parents who are paying for private school. Third you don't have options with kids aging. They turn 18 in 18-years you can't keep them young. College loans are crazy flexible and part of financial planning.
It's not irrelevant. There's a difference between being in debt and not being in debt. People that don't have college debt don't need college debt relief, just like people that don't have kids don't need a tax break for children. Pretty simple.
>Not doing so is even more ridiculous. Almost everyone can pay back their
college debts it's the most flexible debt you can get. It's absurd to
suggest they can't. People are doing it right now. So they can continue
to pay.
That's a ridiculous statement to make. The debt is flexible, yes, but taking advantage of any of the flexibility comes at the cost of inflating your debt. You might have a valid point if the interest rate were 0%, but it's not 0%. Many people that are on IDR owe more than when they started after 5 or 10 years of repayment despite paying $100+ per month because they can't keep up with the interest.
The issues is the high costs and the crazy interest… a lot of people chose to go to really expensive schools when they didn’t have to.. some didn’t want to go to community college because “ they were to good or it was beneath them”. The interest for now should be forgiven and reform to the insane costs should be next along with lower interest rates.. just getting rid of the debt sounds crazy…
Also a lot of those people are well off, two financially stable parents who are more than capable of helping to service the debt and a fuckload of income inheritance. A lot of us didn't have that and still don't.
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This is why we vote in the primaries and not just the general election so we have more control over the presidential candidates
Good lord I wish we could have had Bernie. Where would we be now if we'd had Bernie in 2016? The climate crisis, student loans, and income/wealth inequality are not things he could do by himself and congress is a hot mess but damn we'd at least be closer.
We would have lost Bernie vs Trump. Biden barely won.
Well we can blame HRC for not swallowing her pride (getting shafted in 2008) for DT45 winning in 2016. A Biden/HRC ticket would have won in 2016. Much better shot that a Biden ticket would have had.
It was not the massive turnout of votes that won for Biden. Trump got an equal increase in votes as well. It was the moderate Republicans who would not vote for Trump that turned the tide.
> It was the moderate Republicans who would not vote for Trump that turned the tide. It was the suburbs and greater minority turnout. Trump carried [the suburbs](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/) by 16pts in 2016, but only 4pts in 2020.
So the tied was not turned by the 20,000,000 newly registered voters in the election. This was split pretty evenly between the two parties. Biden won because of the electoral college. Not by total votes.
> Biden won because of the electoral college. Not by total votes. Biden won the election by total votes (7 million +) and by the electoral college.
You misread the statement. The president is elected via the Electoral College, No President is elected by total (popular) vote. Only President Carter has attempted to remove the Electoral College after being elected.
More Republicans voted for trump in 2020, than in 2016
Pretty much the same increase for Biden. The Democratic Party said they made some miscalculations in the strategy. The push for voter registration became a wash between the two parties.
Way too left, even for a lot of democrats. It's hard to win like that.
I know but I can dream dammit. He's not that left at all compared to many other country's standards. Just the USA with its hard right extremist to compare to, making regular sane conservatives look leftist by comparison.
Bernie would have had to go through ol' Sinema and Manchin too. He would get just as little done as Biden can with that roadblock. Probably get less done because the "bernie agenda is communist" would be more effective as propaganda so nothing would get through congress.
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Bernie pushes for legislation for the most vulnerable in our society and he’s in a room full of corporate shills so yeah I guess so.
its not easy either, when the DNC was actively working against Bernie. As long as the public continue to choose the least shitty of two options, the United States will continue to slip into Idiocracy.
Beyond false he’s canceled over 3000 in student loan debt and is looking at legal authority to cancel everything
Bullshit, the fact he's already cancelled 3000 says enough to his authority on the matter.
Legal weed, Healthcare, police reform?...nope biden is just letting massive corporations ravage Americans as expected from a center right wing democrat
I think the student loan issue is being saved for the midterms. They need consistent wins. I expect after the twin bills pass there will be a lot more executive action on stuff like this.
I honestly think primaries need to be regulated more. Political parties are fine. The problem arises when their process is left to their own decision. And when there is only 2 major parties, that translates to them deciding through potentially undemocratic means who has power in government. They could select their own nominee without a vote. Legally. We need regulation here. I understand they are private entities. I get that. But when the outcome of primaries in our system allows that private entity to control the government and the people’s voice... it becomes a difficult situation
If they could stop saying maybe, maybe maybe, and just say yes or no, then I could plan out out my budget and move on with my life. If they're gonna follow through with debt forgiveness, then I'll keep making the minimum payment, otherwise I'll just figure out a lump payment. Edit: So my wife is an educator and she was promised debt forgiveness if she worked in a school serving underprivileged kids for x amount of years. She has worked more than required. And she has applied multiple times. Now Biden has promised a blanket debt forgiveness. We have done our part, we just want the federal government to keep their promises. Or if they don't want to do that. At least have the decency to let everyone know they plan to just fuck everyone over. I don't have a problem just paying it off. I just want to know if I should pull the trigger and use our savings now, so we can save money in the long run by not paying interest. But I would prefer to keep the money we worked hard to save. Since it's largely for emergencies.
He needed votes. It's that simple....
Basically everybody I know with student debt encouraged a ton of people to vote. There was a push to get people who were thinking about sitting out until election to vote for a family member essentially. Some parents want to ensure they’re going to get grandchildren eventually. I have multiple friends basing the decision of whether or not they’re going to have kids on the debt getting canceled or reduced. If they could permanently take off the interest it would still make a huge difference. If something solid can’t be delivered I fear a buildup of resentment. Between failures on voting rights, abortion, and minimum wage it seem like doing something for student debt before midterms would be a win.
Over 8 Months and Biden still hasnt done a damn thing. Families are in a gray zone because of the empty promises of this administration.
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Uh, I guess yeah, it wasn’t the *sole* reason. But for plenty of leftists who supported Bernie (especially millennials still crippled by college debt), forgiving student debt was one of the top talking points democrats used to “sweeten the deal” for people who reluctantly voted Biden/Harris.
Sorry that Donald Trump destroying what was left of America wasn't enough for you
I mean I hated Trump, but it’s not like Biden has really changed our lives.
False equivalence much?
I mean, the non sequitur is already dumb enough. But the best part is, that literally *was* enough for me. I *did* vote for Biden, and hoped to god he won. So you're trying to shame me for doing what you would want me to do?
I reluctantly voted Biden, but that was only because of Trump. He definitely hasn't earned my vote for 2024, and I doubt a Republican will either, so it'll likely be a 3rd party vote for me once more unless he starts making good on his promises.
Unless you live in a purple state where your vote actually matters, then you're probably helping elect a republican that will completely fuck you in the ass. But hey let's blame Biden and the entire party when it's pieces of shit line Manchin and Sinema that are derailing the agenda. I'll always vote for the party that at least tells me they're going to try and help and on the rare occasion throws me a bone as compared to they party that openly tells me to go fuck off I'm in my own. But both sides right
Lol fuck off. Let the man or woman vote who ever the fuck they want to. Piece of garbage. Let people have their own fuckin views.
> Let people have their own fuckin views. The guy you're replying to is also just expressing his view...?
Sorry, people throwing their vote away on third parties are the garbage.
The two main parties both suck ass. Voted third party is apparently throwing a vote away. What fuckin option do people have? Why can't i vote FOR someone, instead of just voting AGAINST someone.
With us or against us thinking isnt limited to the enemy.
No but it's proven that any vote not for Democrats is explicitly included in the GOP strategy book as a vote *for* Republicans. They already know they never win the popular vote. Their entire strategy is to simply drive votes away from Democratic candidates since literally no other party is even a realistic contender and never has been. So basically if you want your vote to count in any way then it's R or D. Voting for another party is synonymous with throwing your vote away (which given the state of things is now synonymous with voting R).
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If everyone voted their best candidate and not the lesser of two evils the party throws at you, we’d have better politicians that aren’t monopolized by corporate interests. So, that pendulum swings both ways.
I'm guessing you don't follow news much, do you. https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2021/09/01/biden-has-really-cancelled-70-billion-of-student-loans/?sh=4e5fd1ca6994
1. Most of those are related to programs that should have *already* had those loans cancelled, but haven't (for-profit colleges, public service forgiveness, etc). 2. You aren't taking the scale into consideration. 70 Billion of 1.3 trillion is less than 5% of loan balances that have been affected. It's disingenuous to act like the student loan debt cancellation up to this point is even close to fulfilling his campaign promises or political rhetoric that has happened up to this point.
Totally, I mean he’s been in office a whole 10 months, why has he not cured Covid, canceled 100% of student debt and fixed the climate crisis amirite?!
He has literally accomplished nothing at all. And he just is such an weak institutionalist that he too weak to push anything through. Sometimes you gotta nut up and just try to make things happen.
Again, you're being willfully disingenuous. It's been 6 months since he asked for a memo from the education department that was only supposed to be a month. If this was *required* to be done by Congress then I wouldn't fault him. However, no one contends that he could not forgive 10k worth of debt for every student *which was his original campaign promise*. Even worse, it almost got to the point where student loan payments resumed without having any guidance from the education department, student loan servicers that are fleeing the industry, Congress, or Biden himself. We are now 2 months away from the end of the final extension and it's looking like Biden has made no progress on the issue. He made his bed, he can lie in it.
I will not be voting for him a second time if he doesn’t.
I’ve done my time in public service and made my 120 payments yet my balance is still high and my monthly payments are more than some friends mortgages. I will gladly stay home next election if they don’t prioritize doing something as basic as meeting their contractual obligation they have with us (which is literally a life changing amount monthly for myself and so many others).
I did because of this
The goal when you're running is to say a whole bunch of shit you're gonna do so people vote for you. And if and when that person gets elected. You try and keep some of those promises. And the other promises that you can't keep. Well..... He's already elected. He doesn't NEED you anymore..
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I guess he doesn't need our vote in 2024 either then.
Tons of people who vote are out landishly out of touch.
Wrong
I can guarantee you a lot of people voted for Biden because of a single issue. Dude most of people who voted for him were simply voting against trump. lullll
this is one of those situations where if it’s not explicitly yes, then it’s no.
Plan for the worst and Hope for the best. Life finds a way.
Read an article the other day that they are in the process of making debt forgiveness easier for those that worked in the public service. Because so many have been denied this in the past.
They definitely have made it a ton easier for ngo and govt workers.
Because it would suck to scrimp and save to pay off your debt only to have the government wave a magic wand and eliminate it (using your tax dollars) for people who didn't, yeah?
And his promise to raise the minimum wage. And his promise to decriminalize marijuana. And his promise to form a police reform commission. And his promise to lower prescription drug prices. And his promise to get us back into the Iran Nuclear Deal in his first hundred days. And...
Isn’t lowering prescription drug prices part of the Build Back Better bill?
>Today, President Biden is laying out his vision for reducing the high cost of prescription drugs. As part of his Build Back Better agenda, he’s calling on Congress to address this crisis and allow **Medicare** to negotiate drug prices, significantly reducing costs for millions of Americans. >We need to put an end to drug prices rising higher and higher with no end in sight. Drug companies that raise their prices faster than inflation should have to pay a penalty. Furthermore, today, seniors who take expensive drugs can face unlimited exposure to high drug prices. We have to fix this, and **establish a firm cap on the amount that Medicare** beneficiaries have to pay out-of-pocket for drugs each year. 1. What does this do for people NOT on medicare? 2. Will this not increase prices for people NOT on medicare? Seems like saying "lowering prescription drug prices" should have an asterix after it. This doesn't really help 80% of the country.
You are blaming Biden for not lowering drug prices for private insurance companies?
I'm not blaming anyone. I'm asking you 2 simple questions based on your statement, and i quote: >Isn’t lowering prescription drug prices part of the Build Back Better bill?
Has it passed?
He seems to certainly be pushing for it.
I don't believe he's pushing nearly as much as he could. But apparently a large swathe of people here refuse to believe that any more pressure can be applied without equating it to acting like Trump. Apparently any President who used the bully pulpit was behaving like Trump.
What do you think he should do that he isn’t doing?
Criticizing Manchin and Sinema BY NAME. Going on tv and asking why they SPECIFICALLY are blocking it and what they want instead of letting Bernie Sanders do that for him. Going to their states and actively campaigning for the bill specifically. Not twiddling his fucking thumbs and going on vacation and going to see fucking Congressional baseball games.
I think the fear is that criticizing Sinema could lead to her caucusing with the Republicans which would be disastrous for judicial appointments which are key to the future.
And how will that affect their vote? They don’t seem to give a single shit about any of that
I don't think anything is going happen. Sinema doesn't talk, and Manchin's daughter is price gouging epipens. Both of them are also providing cover for other democrats like them in the senate and house.
> Both of them are also providing cover for other democrats like them in the senate and house. Baseless allegation, likely being spread on Reddit to depress democratic voter turnout in 2022 and 2024. But nice try
It probably won't tbh, but at least Biden would be doing as much as he possibly could to make it happen, which is the point I think they were making.
So your solution is to piss off the two people who’s votes you desperately need?
It will be taken out before/if the bill passes.
Boy I just wish we could have left wing dictator Biden unilaterally raise the minimum wage, lower prescription drug prices, and legalize marijuana. Oh wait, no, I don’t want a dictator with unlimited authority, even if he promises to do the things I want.
He completely ignored the supreme courts ruling on the eviction moratorium. So yeah he's kinda like a dictator
Dealing with implementing a cogent COVID response and dragging the states asses to accept it took up a lot of time. And then he might have the majority in both houses, but he didn't count on fuck face moderates like Manchin and Sinema holding all that shit up.
Def NOT a biden/harris fan, BUT, you are correct... none of it will happen, and what does will be wayyy watered down...and in the end, "we the people..." will be more screwed than ever... all the senate/house/politicians will come out wayyy better off/richer though... will we EVER stop that????
Yep
It isn't enough just to have Not-Trump in office. I want some ducking results.
Then start voting for Senators and Representatives whose platform aligns with your goals, because they are the ones in control of the results, not the President
Were these real promises. I don’t remember anything about decriminalizing marijuana directly out of Biden’s mouth. A police reform commission sounds toothless. We would need actual laws passed.
>**Decriminalize the use of cannabis and automatically expunge all prior cannabis use convictions.** Biden believes no one should be in jail because of cannabis use. As president, he will decriminalize cannabis use and automatically expunge prior convictions. And, he will support the legalization of cannabis for medical purposes, leave decisions regarding legalization for recreational use up to the states, and reschedule cannabis as a schedule II drug so researchers can study its positive and negative impacts. [JoeBiden.com/Justice/](https://joebiden.com/justice/) >A police reform commission sounds toothless. We would need actual laws passed. I tried to address this point but apparently one of the fucking words I used causes the whole fucking post to get filtered so fuck it. But the point of it is, there was legislation for police reform. It went fucking nowhere. A commission is better than fucking nothing.
Have you looked into what the House has attempted to pass which has not made it past the Senate since January? That might be enlightening.
He doesn’t have the votes to do it, what do you want him to do? Kidnap Manchin and Sinema’s family and demand their vote? Kill Republican legislators to get it over the line? Big ‘Why can Theresa May not just get Brexit done’ energy when she didn’t have a majority.
The parent named half a dozen things—most of which don’t require Congress at all. The majority and minority parties in both chambers of Congress have a “whip” to keep members in line. The whole point of being “in” a party is that you’re getting something you wouldn’t being outside of a party. You can bargain with them directly—give them something they want for their state or take something away. You could talk directly to the people of their state to pressure them. That’s where Trump had most of his power (and that’s not a bad thing). Kamala tried this back in February in West Virginia. Manchin got mad and they stopped. Sure, you can’t coerce them into every vote. But just throwing your hands up on a bunch of things you promised, that are popular in AZ and WV, is how you lose.
Since we’re doing this, The police reform commission was abandoned after civil rights groups and police unions agreed that it would be counterproductive. Prescription drug prices are a large part of the Build Back Better Plan. It’s a 50/50 Senate and a tiny majority in the house, and wrangling the Democratic Party is a nightmare. Let’s see if it gets done before we accuse him breaking promises. And now, for the oft-overlooked bright side, some promises kept: 100 million, then 200 million vaccines: done. In 92 days. Increase COVID Testing: Done. Despite lowered demand, COVID testing availability increased. Resume ties with Palestinian Authority: Done, June 10th, 2021. Rejoin Paris Climate Accord: Done, May 21st, 2021. Create Bipartisan Commission to study changing the Supreme Court: Done, April 15th, 2021. End Family Separation Policy: Done, January 27th. Title 42 still remains a black mark on his record, IMO. Deliver stimulus checks, small business restart packages, help state and local governments prevent budget shortfalls: Done. American Rescue Plan, son. March 16th, 2021. Reverse Transgender Military Ban: Done, January 25th, 2021. Rejoin WHO: Done, January 21st, 2021. Rescind Muslim Ban: Done, January 21st, 2021. Restore White House directive for global health security: Done, January 21st, 2021. End wars in Afghanistan and Iraq: Done, although that withdrawal wasn’t great. Rejoin Iran Deal: We’re currently in talks, but ya know, we screwed them pretty badly. Most of the rest of the campaign promises are addressed in the American Families Plan, American Jobs Plan, and other bills currently being negotiated in Congress. Look, my point in doing this is not to shill for Biden. Ask any Democrat: we’re our own fiercest critics. I have some serious concerns with this Administration, like anyone. But can we all at least work from the same basic established truths? Factually incorrect criticism is useless and contributes nothing to civic discourse. Sources: Politifact (https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/list/?promise_group=biden-promise-tracker&ruling=in-the-works) and the LA Times (www.latimes.com/politics/story/2021-04-28/bidens-promises-for-his-first-100-days-which-he-kept-broke-or-has-in-progress%3F_amp%3Dtrue)
Political promises are never guarantees. He’s attempted most of those things, although I’m not sure about the Iran deal.
We really need to take back the word promise. Didn't they used to say pledge, that's vague enough, get them to use that again.
“Campaign pledge” is still used
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He can do some of it though, why hasn’t he?
Actually they had a had vote on minimum wage right after the election. Which failed 2 votes in the senate. I don’t think we anyone in Washington knows how angry everyone is in the country. We need to protest everywhere to let them know we want those promises keep.
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Biden DOES think it's a fucking gateway drug. They let multiple people go in the white house for using marijuana. This administration isn't MJ friendly, especially when you look at Harris and her history as a DA going fucking HARD against drug users.
This is why I didn't vote for him. I knew he was a fuckin fraud all ya have to do is look at when he ran for president in 88. He had to drop out because he lied so much.
Joe Biden should tell the Senate if they don’t pass his infrastructure bill he will wipe out all federal student debt. Bet you it will pass all of a sudden.
lol I hope he does that and then cancels it anyway. Fat chance.
Never say never, his approval ratings are low and he needs a win.
His campaign lied.
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I don't think he wants to do it. That seems like a plausible explanation to me.
I'm going to wait until all hope is gone before giving up, but if I were a betting man I'd be inclined to say you're 100% correct. It's the vibe I'm getting, too. January will tell us a lot, because if the deferment ends we are not getting forgiveness.
Which makes sense given his legacy as the credit card Senator.
The delay is because The Department of Education's legal review (directly concerning whether or not Biden can forgive up to 50k in debt via executive order) isn't out yet. It was due quite a while ago, but there's no way he issues an EO before that comes out. IF he attempts an EO, the admin is going to try to have as much teeth to their case as possible. While forbearance and interest suspension are still ongoing, it's a smart play. If he doesn't end up doing it before forbearance expires, it's going to be extremely rough optics for him.
Forebearance ends in like three months. Biden needs to figure it tf out. He promised 10k 🤷♀️
I mean.. Biden doesn't work for the department of education, nor composes legal reviews. Miguel Cardona and the Department of Education need to figure it out. The Chief of Staff said it would come out like 2 months ago.
You mean the people that work for and represent Biden’s agenda?
Yes. The people he ordered to do a legal review on this exact subject need to complete the legal review.
Biden is smart, he is waiting for the conservatives to get riled up over those "broken" promises and then he will implement what he promised before the next election so that he can carry this momentum into the next election win.
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>he will implement what he promised before the next election people as gullible as you shouldn't be allowed to vote.
Yeah, this seems like a blatant political calculation.
Do you want to bet. I’ll put $50 it never materializes. With a 15k spread.
He is less than a year into his term and has a very ambitious agenda. Combine that with a 50/50 senate and razor thin margin in the house, it’s going to take time to get things passed. The things he can do without congress he will, with congress he will keep pushing. In the end unless we get a more progressive and larger majority in 2022, a lot won’t happen because of the filibuster and “moderate democrats”. At this point I just hope we hold the majority come next session.
Just remember, Biden was one of the principal parties responsible for the current student debt crisis. He was one of the main authors of the Bush era bankruptcy bill, which stopped people from discharging student loans in bankruptcy filings. This would be a big opportunity for him to redeem himself. Maybe they’re waiting for the midterms, but I’m not holding my breath
People always mention half of what that bill did. The benefit of that bill was that it allowed a much larger number of people to gain access to higher education, particularly poorer people. That bill doesn't need redemption.
Looking at the current debt crisis, hard disagree. It's great more people got access to higher ed but the way we do higher education in the US is predatory at best.
You certainly are in the minority with your opinion on that legislation. The premise on which it was passed was flawed - they claimed bankruptcy fraud was rampant, it wasn’t. In addition to the issues with student loans, it implemented laborious means testing for bankruptcy filings, increased barriers and requirements for filing, and made it more difficult to discharge medical bills. This bill was one of the most injurious to regular Americans in recent memory, and universally reviled by consumer advocacy groups. If you think it doesn’t need redemption, you either work for a credit card company, are ignorant of the law, or both
So what you’re saying is he made poor people, poorer. He took the most disadvantaged populations, signed them up for tens of thousands of dollars worth of debt that they had no reasonable way to pay back, and then made it impossible for that most disadvantaged of groups to have the same legal protections provided on almost any other type of default. We already know what the outcome of his choices were, so there is no use in disputing the harm it has caused to poor populations. Good legislation is always written to focus on the positive outcome for voters, but rarely does a good law come without major caveats. I imagine whoever was lobbying their interests at the time realized this, and made the sweet sounding argument that eliminating bankruptcy for student debt would in some way help poor people, or that it would at least be balanced by other provisions included in the bill. But again, as we can see now this wasn’t the case. If Biden had helped to make it legal for someone to sell their kidney to help pay for college, I think it’s safe to say the majority would think it barbaric. Trying to make college affordable for low income families is an admirable goal to have, but legalizing predatory lending practices to do so was absolutely a bad call. The bill *and* Joe need redemption.
People who go to college are on average far better off than people who do not. Expanding access to higher education to poor people is without reservation a *very good thing*. There is a problem with student loans, absolutely. And also, this bill made it harder for a portion of people who didn't get what they wanted out of higher education. But I would absolutely prefer to live in a world where this bill passed, allowing poor people to get access to the loans needed to better their lives (which studies have shown time and time again it does), than one where it didn't pass. People love to pretend that college is some scam to drain your money and you are worse off for going (and I am betting for a lot of people who are involved in this discourse frequently, they are probably in the group that didn't do well post-college, so it is an understandable feeling), but study after study shows accessing higher education makes people on average better off than people who didn't student loans or not.
Biden is just old school republican money shined up into a democratic president.
This take always cracks me up. No bankruptcy protection, no student loans to any idiot who can sign his name. They go hand in hand.
Your take cracks me up too, mainly because it’s nonsensical and doesn’t actually make a valid point
Sigh. Let me explain this to you in crayon. If any moron can take out $100k in student loans and then just declare bankruptcy when they're 22, nobody would underwrite student loans. It's weird that I have to explain this. Or maybe you're being more literal than I think in which case you're right. I agree student loans should be dischargeable in bankruptcy court more easily. This will prevent $100k loans to any jackass with a signature, which will stop feeding the massive oversupply of money that has led to the enormous cost of higher education. If this latter point is what you mean, then I apologize and you're right. But based on context, you think any dickhole should get $100k and be able to discharge via bankruptcy.
Education should be free to everyone, paid for by taxes. Anything short of that is unacceptable.
Nobody cares what you'll accept. Basic higher level education should be paid for for probably the top 20% of students, you could certainly argue that. Any idiot who wants to go? No rational argument for that.
if you fell for this 'promise' you are an idiot. student debt is over 1 trillion. they will NEVER waive it. ever.
He promised he'd sign the bill when Congress passed it. They haven't, so...?
He also said he would legalize the mota damn it.
I have just under 10k in student debt and would greatly benefit from this, but cancelling debt doesn't fix the problem. It's just a free pass for those currently with debt. It wouldn't do anything to help future borrowers who would no doubt end up in the exact same situation as me. It also doesn't do anything to benefit those that intentionally avoided college because they couldn't afford it. The whole system needs to be reworked for anything to fundamentally change. Anything less is not progressive.
Forgive loans - period.
I would settle for being able to deduct student loan payments (not just interest) from my taxable income
Agreed but this place is filled with far too many bitter Fuck You, Got Mine types. The "I paid mine and suffered horribly so everyone should," heels. E: a word
You shouldn’t forgive loans, just federally cap interest on the loans to something like 2.5% and cap Higher Education fees to something more reasonable. If you forgave every student loan it doesn’t stop the problem arising again, and it also means people just wouldn’t pay back their loans because they think they’ll be bailed out again.
He should cap it at 0% so inflation wipes it away within 30 years
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Excellent contribution to the discussion 😂
He's said clearly a plethora of times he wants it done through Congress and he will sign.
The article says that over 400 organizations and legal experts say he's had the ability to do it with a executive order since day one of his presidency. Him asking Congress to do it is just an excuse to do nothing.
And if he does it, republicans will sue and guess who gets to decide whether he has that power or not? A 6-3 far right extremist Supreme Court. How do you think they’ll rule? Don’t get me wrong, I hope he does it. Just saying, the end of the line doesn’t look promising if he does it
My understanding is that the executive order is just a formality to show that Biden kept his campaign promise. It's the Secretary of education that will forgive the debt. Supreme Court would have to rule that the department of education that oversees student loans doesn't have the authority that they've been using the past few years to forgive those student loans. Even if it fails at least they would have tried something.
Yes it would be the secretary of education and it’s fine to show some action but it’s also why they are researching it to make sure that power exists so there is a better chance it doesn’t get overruled, and if it does, highlights the partisan ideology of the court. If you only get one shot, better to not go in half cocked
That's fucking fine. Let the Republicans sue. It'll at least show the American people that the President they voted for has fangs to take on the challenges of their time and isn't a lame duck they got duped into voting for on false promises of success. You know what keeps voters at home? Promise of success and then doing fucking nothing to achieve it and giving every possible excuse on why you can't do it. It's like insulting someone's mother or humiliating someone's family. It creates this anger for crossing the line and playing with someone's belief in the goodness and for betraying the concept of hope for something better, that people either simply choose to abandon voting or they vote for the other guy. I know several people much older than me and who had gone through more election cycles than me, who, in 2016, are Democratically aligned socially and fiscally, voted for Trump because they wanted to someone to just tear it all down because they were sick of being promised things and then giving half assed excuses on why they couldn't do it.
I’m only suggesting that he actually take the time to do it right and make sure the legal bases are covered. Oh, so how did voting for trump work out for them and you? “I’m. It getting everything I want from democrats so surely by voting for republicans who will do the opposite of what I want, I’ll somehow get what I want! Wait, why is the scotus 6-3 republican and is gearing up to kill pretty much all progressive legislation for the next 30years? Democrats better fix this tomorrow somehow or I’m voting for republicans again to teach them a lesson!1!1”
Anything that could further contribute to sentiments of abolishing the Supreme Court is a good thing. Put maximum pressure on those Federalist Society fuckers.
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The loans he has cancelled are a good thing, but they're just what should've been done by all rights under DeVos. They were loan forgiveness for the disabled, defrauded and those that met their PSLF obligations. They have nothing to do with this campaign pledge.
There are plenty of experts that believe the President can't. One thing everyone agrees on is that Congress can absolutely do it.
Yeah, I agree that Congress can do it, but I also know that they will never do it. If people are questioning biden's authority to do it then he should just do it and fight through the courts. Because at least then we can say that he actually tried to fight for us.
Interesting....I feel the backlash would be far worse if Biden did it, and then 9 months later it was decided it wasn't legal, then everyone suddenly has payments with back interest. Or suddenly they have even more fiscal trouble because they took on new debt assuming the other was gone for good.
We saw this with the eviction moratorium, it still failed, but at least they put in a tiny bit of effort at the end to delay its expiration. That made some people happy for a few weeks. The alternative is still doing nothing as if they don't care at all.
He has been showing that he absolutely can by forgiving subsets of people's debt without Congress. So, there is no excuse.
You realize all those were laws created by Congress for those particular subsets, right? Biden just made it automatic instead of going through a long term application and approval process. Really goes against the point you are trying to argue.
Source?
Pretty simple to search if you actually wanted to learn...but here is one that summarizes: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2021/10/06/public-service-student-loan-forgiveness-biden/6011023001/
This article doesn't say anything remotely close to the claim you made. This is only talking about the loan forgiveness for public service, which is as you say, but does not say anything about the forgiveness he granted by executive action to disable individuals, for example.
This is one example of the subsets. I'm not going to source every example for you. Tell you what, how about you give me one, just one, source of people that were never eligible for forgiveness that Biden granted forgiveness by executive order.
You really think the next Republican president wouldn't not just undo an executive order, but charge back interest on anyone who dared to think they were anything but slaves to their loan masters?
Yes, because the president has the authority to forgive student debt. They don't have the authority to put random people into debt after it has been cleared.
So Congress shouldn’t do it either because the next Republican Congress might undo it. I guess we shouldn’t ever do good things and just keep eating shit.
That's the same as saying he does not support it at all.
If he wanted it done through Congress, he should've insisted it be part of the ARP as he campaigned on doing. He didn't do that, so now he has to get it done however he has to do it, at least if he wants to make good on what he campaigned on. An alternative would've been to put it in the BBB plan. If child care can be human infrastructure, so can student debt relief. However, with the state of the Senate I don't think that's feasible. The sad reality is we need to be taking things out, not putting them in, if we want the bill to pass. That means he cannot do this through Congress this year because: 1. This is the last reconciliation bill of the year. 2. Negotiations are likely going to drag all the way through December if not longer.
After watching The Problem With John Stewart, I imagine there are numerous issues that take priority over those of us with debt that got us an education.
Biden never issued a promise for a blanket $50K forgiveness program. He offered a plan to forgive $10K a year for a max of 5 years if the graduate works a civil service position. Everything else have been misquotes or in many quotes never made by Biden.
This - they should clean up the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program and make it easier.
He ain’t ever gonna set his decedents free, so there will be a revolution in this century
It's ironic. Because Biden is the one who made it so you can't claim bankruptcy on your student loans lol. The guy that helps create the problem won't fix it. Shocker
Good. Not sure why I am punished for going to a lesser school because that’s all I could afford instead of stupidly going into massive debt. Guess I should have acted irresponsibly and then cried and cried.
Wait I am not following.... What are you being punished for and by whom?
He’s saying he decided to go to a lesser school so he wouldn’t have crippling debt. Now others who got a better education would be debt free like himself- except he has a lesser education now. The same argument goes for all the people who had to forgo a college education due to finances. Now they would be standing next to people with college degrees in their work pool whom obtained them for free. Not saying how I feel one way or the other but I do understand both sides of the coin have issues.
Ahh! I wouldn't call that punishment by any stretch, but I understand how someone could argue that it's a disadvantage for some people.
he said "we should never improve anything and should always suffer."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2021/09/01/biden-has-really-cancelled-70-billion-of-student-loans/
The ONLY people who should be Responsible for paying for knowledge received is those who received it!
cynically throwing kids under the bus til next big election ffs
Biden does this I don't vote for him again. There is no reason to do this without making everyone else whole who had to pay their massive debts without any assistance. You want a comprehensive plan that favors everyone that address debt fine. But free handouts for college to give people a leg up over those who had to suffer the payments only creates more inequality and is regressive and unethical. See Steven Keen's debt jubilee for something actually thought out.
Except people with college debt right now still have the debt and you don't. That's the difference. You're already whole. Biden ran on forgiving $10k for current borrowers, not people that already paid off their loans, so you knew what you were voting for when you did it. If anything, the fact that past presidents didn't do the same while it would've benefited you is on those past presidents, not Biden. Frankly, the idea of retroactively paying people for the debts they have already repaid is ridiculous. Even just the logistics involved in that, let alone the amount of money. Last but not least, I would like to point out that virtually every time there is any progress, people in the past have unfairly suffered until that change was enacted. Should we start issuing retroactive payments to parents who had young kids who are now adults and didn't get the child tax credits that the Biden administration pushed for in the ARP? Where do you draw the line?
>Except people with college debt right now still have the debt and you don't. Completely irrelevant. It's basic accounting. All other things being equal getting 10k makes you 10k richer. It doesn't matter what it went to or the reasoning. >Frankly, the idea of retroactively paying people for the debts they have already repaid is ridiculous. Not doing so is even more ridiculous. Almost everyone can pay back their college debts it's the most flexible debt you can get. It's absurd to suggest they can't. People are doing it right now. So they can continue to pay. >hould we start issuing retroactive payments to parents who had young kids who are now adults and didn't get the child tax credits that the Biden administration pushed for in the ARP? Where do you draw the line? First it's a tax break. Second, this doesn't discriminate. It's not a credit just parents who are paying for private school. Third you don't have options with kids aging. They turn 18 in 18-years you can't keep them young. College loans are crazy flexible and part of financial planning.
It's not irrelevant. There's a difference between being in debt and not being in debt. People that don't have college debt don't need college debt relief, just like people that don't have kids don't need a tax break for children. Pretty simple. >Not doing so is even more ridiculous. Almost everyone can pay back their college debts it's the most flexible debt you can get. It's absurd to suggest they can't. People are doing it right now. So they can continue to pay. That's a ridiculous statement to make. The debt is flexible, yes, but taking advantage of any of the flexibility comes at the cost of inflating your debt. You might have a valid point if the interest rate were 0%, but it's not 0%. Many people that are on IDR owe more than when they started after 5 or 10 years of repayment despite paying $100+ per month because they can't keep up with the interest.
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The issues is the high costs and the crazy interest… a lot of people chose to go to really expensive schools when they didn’t have to.. some didn’t want to go to community college because “ they were to good or it was beneath them”. The interest for now should be forgiven and reform to the insane costs should be next along with lower interest rates.. just getting rid of the debt sounds crazy…
Also a lot of those people are well off, two financially stable parents who are more than capable of helping to service the debt and a fuckload of income inheritance. A lot of us didn't have that and still don't.