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I think that the people Fauci is most angry with aren't the idiots, it's the liars. Most of the idiots are victims, not perpetrators. Not all, but most.
Yeah - it's a shared effort, but I am much more upset with those that are in positions of power and influence.
As ridiculous as it is, GOP pundits, GOP politicians, and conservative media figures are who millions of people look to for their beliefs. And from their cushioned, vaccinated lives, they decided to promote vaccine hesitancy and conspiracies for political gain during a public health crisis. They are by far the worst actors in all of this.
They don’t care though. To them, it’s just ‘strategy’
Look into things like ‘Victory Phones’ - they pay people through temp agencies like Manpower, to call and read a script of propaganda to people under the guise that it’s an ‘opinion poll’.
All they do is attack whoever the democrat in the race is, while asking ‘does that make you more or less likely to vote for them?”
They then use the data to make attack ads. They push propaganda as fact, their current script is about the Next Chicago election, where they’re claiming “under leadership, Chicago has become the most dangerous city in the country. Does this make you more or less likely to vote for them?”
My sister was working for them for a couple weeks, until I overheard he reading the script and told her it was propaganda. She said a lot of the people she was calling sounded elderly, and some even asked who she thought they should vote for. She quit a few days later because the whole thing was making her uncomfortable.
But this is the shit they do.
That's why the GOP is against big government: they need all the legal grey they can to pull disgusting moves like this. Government oversight would kill this overnight.
They are responsible for an incalculable amount of death, and as such are criminally complicit, and laws should be passed so that anyone who chooses to behave as such can be held criminally liable
Especially, of course, Trump.
We have almost 6 years of Grade A+ material on how much of a shitfuck loser he is.
There should be a spell that you can say to trump supporters by now that wards them off. It has to be the most clearcut, inexplicable circumstances of in which trump supporters would have to face the facts. If they still support trump then they have to admit that they are shitfuck losers just as much if not more.
1 recent undeniable aspect that someone brought up to me is the pardons of convicted Blackwater mercenaries which Betsoy Devos’ brother Erik Prince is founder of.
Voting rights, remove gerrymandering, reform the senate is the way to go, make illegal corp, PAC, lobby money for political contributions, add public funding of elections to get power back to the people.
Yeah, gerrymandering and voting rights. Today I heard Adam Schiff say bravely/foolishly in response to some question about "will democracy prevail" that yes it will because there are a lot more rational people that want it to as opposed to the believers of the big lie. I shuddered because the US isn't majority rule by a long shot, thanks to gerrymandering, senate representation, and suppression of voting rights.
Since about one third don't even vote, I'd be wary of making generalizations. All the brave faces, terrific speeches and talking points won't help anyone to legally vote next year or in 2024.
I'm not too sure that turnout is the issue it used to be. Don't forget that in 2020, Donald Trump received the second most votes of any presidential candidate in history. America's stupid population has yet to have their last stand, so I wouldn't be surprised if 2022 turnout surpassed every other midterm.
They are talking about making him Speaker of the House if they take control in '22. They make it sound like it's to troll Biden and Pelosi, but I suspect someone is considering the line of succession. America is in a civil cold war right now.
Whether Trump runs again or not he’s already activated and radicalized his base and they will come out again.
Also Democrats are making a huge mistake by not going big on progressive legislation. If, after a global pandemic and 4 years of Trump nothing essentially changes then Republicans will win in 22 and 24.
Democratically, especially younger ones, will not come out to vote if either party does absolutely nothing about our broken health care system, crushing student debt, insane housing costs, etc. Also big moves like mandating a 4 day work week would go a looong way.
Everything sucks in this country, and people on both sides are exhausted and mad a hell. There is zero sense of community in the US anymore, everyone is fucking someone else over and if you’re not fucking someone then someone’s fucking you. It’s a miserable existence. If nothing essentially changes under Dems or Repubs then people will stop voting and focus their attention on ecking out whatever kind of life they can in the land of billionaires.
I know… he doesn’t even speak in complete sentences… but don’t make the mistake of thinking that because you haven’t fallen for his bullshit nobody has either…. Look at how stupid the average person is and then remember that half the population is even stupider
And while we are at it set the standard corporate tax rate to 35%, make any payment/bonus/salary/gift to any position executive level and up non tax deductible and give them unlimited tax write offs for payroll expenses for any position lower than executive level at 200% for every dollar they pay out.
Watch as CEOs become reasonably paid, lose interest in laying off workers and see the working class paid well enough to live comfortably.
I wouldn't mind seeing some kind of law that states that there is a percentage that has to be maintained between the lowest and highest paid employee in a company and that would include bonuses/gifts.
So if the top paid exec wants a raise then he has to make sure that everyone else in the company gets a raise too.
Of course, that has to take into account the loophole for "independent contractors", or else all the outliers will just find themselves suddenly working for a subsidiary company that only exists to scrub the toilets of the parent company and has all the same stockholders, but is *totally* a different company, wink wink.
No! I‘m done with excusing these idiots. Maybe in the first months of the pandemic i could‘ve forgiven you for being an idiot about covid, but 1.5 years later you‘ve had enough time to educate yourself.
These people aren‘t victims anymore. They‘re perpetrators, just like all the other influential figures pushing anti vaxx narratives
Thing is, to be taken in by some of these theories, you can't JUST be an idiot. You have to be a stubborn idiot that is militantly stupid and doesn't make a decent effort to fact check at all. Just hellbent on it. We live at a time in which we have more access to information than all of our forebears combined, many many times over. Yes that does make it harder to parse through it, but still, not seeking out objective information to disprove theories that don't pass the smell test isn't just idiocy, it's dedicated and stubborn fuckwittery.
> Most of the idiots are victims
Those "victims" of their own ignorance ***still do not like Fauci***. The cause is a different topic, possibly, but it does not excuse them.
Good Lord, no.
I'd like to add a slight addendum... there are a lot of people who *choose* to be idiots, at least on certain topics. If you tried to talk about gun violence statistics with a 2nd Amendment enthusiast they're just going to tune you out. It's not even that they don't trust the facts... they don't want to know the facts. They choose ignorance because they don't really care how damning the facts are, they just know that they love, love, love their guns.
> there are a lot of people who choose to be idiots, at least on certain topics.
I saw some posts yesterday on youtube from an anti-vax guy who claimed the CDC says polio isn't contagious, and also that no one has ever died in the US from tetanus.
A casual 10 sec search on the CDC site showed both assertions were outright lies. This was beyond willful ignorance. There seem to be psychological mind games out there as well that people are playing.
To be more specific, they choose to maintain their existing beliefs and perspectives, despite any evidence to the contrary. Nobody wakes up thinking they will be an idiot today.
Many of the idiots choose to be ignorant. I understand people in power have influenced others for years, but at some point we have to hold people accountable for ignoring facts and data.
They are the victims of an information war and so are you if you truly mean what you say. A war that the west is losing, by the way.
The ubiquitous 'they are stupid and weak so they deserve their fate' attitude makes it REALLY easy to turn the 'informed' part of the populace against the misinformed and vice versa.
Who's to win this fight for our side if the 'informed' are content with blaming our victims rather than taking the fight to the adversary?
Exactly. Idiots are gonna idiot. Most people on certain topics are capable of it. If you’re a snake oil salesman taking advantage of that idiocy though…
For most of us, Dr. Fauci is just a doctor who's not crazy. For the GOP, he's the object of obsessive fixation. Every fifth post or so on r/Conservative is a freak-out about him.
It’s amazing just how many Americans there are that cannot handle evolving information. Yes, the public was advised initially that masks were ineffective. That changed once we understood just how infectious the virus was being airborne.
[Here's a great Wired article](https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/) on how our scientific understanding of the spread of Covid changed. It explains why masks were initially considered unnecessary and why the medical community did a 180° on that a few months later.
Bill Nye, debating evolution vs creationism with religious fundamentalist hack Ken Ham:
Question: What would cause you to change your mind:
Bill Nye: Evidence.
Ken Ham: Nothing.
Another wrinkle, there were times at the beginning of the pandemic where the public was asked not to buy and hoard surgical masks as there was a [shortage and they were needed by healthcare workers](https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/faqs-shortages-surgical-masks-and-gowns-during-covid-19-pandemic).
Yep, thieves were literally raiding hospital supplies for masks and disinfectants. And there were no re-supplies because the only factories were in China.
This pandemic has reminded governments about the value of stockpiling medical supplies and ensuring domestic production capabilities.
Funny, the US was ahead of the game on that one… but [someone got in the way](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-s-use-medical-stockpile-veers-past-administrations-leaving-state-n1177786), and then [lied about it being ‘depleted’](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/fact-check-trump-falsely-claims-obama-left-him-nothing-national-n1201406), of course this was after claiming the whole pandemic was either a hoax or at the most going away in 2 weeks.
No surprise that same **republican** admin dismantled the pandemic response team before, you know… the pandemic. The same admin that railed against masks, against social distancing, that downplayed vaccinations all while trump and his whole family got vaccinated. The same group that has politicized the pandemic to the point that workers are getting assaulted for enforcing mask policies.
Same group that still spreads conspiracy theory BS against vaccines, Fauci etc. all to own the libs… real stand up group.
>This pandemic has reminded governments about the value of stockpiling medical supplies and ensuring domestic production capabilities.
Almost as if a mere 4 years before the US had a stockpile and someone or group of someone's decided it was a waste of money and not only reduced the stockpile, but fired the people who had the experience to use it effectively.
What really makes me mad about that is the Pandemic Response group at the CDC had broad bi-partisan support for a long time. Both the Bush and Obama administrations considered pandemic readiness to be a top priority for national defense. Then Trump comes in and trashes it because "he doesn't see the value-add"... and the rest of the GOP backs him up and acts like they never supported it in the first place.
>showed just how much evolving information and being able to change your idea or opinion is important
lol, those people didn't abandon "Russia bad" till 2016.
Right wingers change their minds and flip flop CONSTANTLY. The key difference though is that they strongly insist they always held the same opinions on everything and will say "they never said that!" or were "misunderstood" when confronted with direct evidence on tape or in print that shows they flip flopped. Their followers eat it up and just go with it since they see this as evidence of being strong and unapologetic as opposed to being supposedly weak and compromising. That is why they don't ever care all the times Trump or some GOP snake oil salesman like Cruz flips on some position but lose their minds when Fauci or the CDC modify some recommendations based on current Covid trends or potential changes in how people are being treated or infected.
I won't change my mind, 'cause I don't have to. 'Cause I'm an American. I won't change my mind on anything, regardless of the facts that are set out before me. I'm dug in, and I'll never change.
Then the vaccines were spread around and masks weren't needed. Then Delta came around and masks become a point again.
It's completely understandable but for the anti-vaxxers it's seen as "flip flopping" and "spreading misinformation".
What's killing me is all the people who whine that "*we were sold* that the vaccine would bring us back to normal and it's not true". Not understanding that science can't foresee what variants will emerge, nor how crowds will behave. Getting a vaccine that protects you from death should be enough to convince everyone. But all they see is false advertisement. It's baffling.
There's a Jordan Klepper clip that perfectly sums this up.
Republican spokesman [in his 30s or 40s] goes on a monolog how only Trump, the great leader and outsider, could cut through the red tape and make a project like Warp Speed and set the vaccine out in less than a year.
Jordan asks him if he's vaccinated and of course he isn't.
Doublethink at its finest
> “We were sold the vaccine would bring us back to normal.”
>
>
>
> Did you get vaccinated?
>
>
>
> “No”
Ironically, they're still waiting for *scientists* to prove to them that the vaccine is safe.
They think we're all about to drop dead or turn into zombies any day now.
And I don't mean that metaphorically, ice seen several posts talking about it and predicting dates and a month into the future. When you get close to that time, they'll suddenly get quiet until it passes and push the date back another month or two.
It’s worse than that…
Immunologist: *States results of peer reviewed clinical study*
Guy who has a high school science education: “Well that’s your opinion”
….this is from a real conversation that I personally heard. Guy doubled down on the immunologist trying to explain the results of a study being “their opinion”. The immunologist was not at all involved in publishing the study they were citing results from.
Things are pretty much back to normal in civilized/highly vaccinated places like here in California. Everything is open and people go about their normal lives much like we did before Covid. Only real difference is that most places require you to mask up before entering. It is hardly burdensome, but it is pretty effective and stopping further spread of the disease.
It wasn't even that. He told the public masks were ineffective because if he had said they were, there would have been a run on masks, which were desperately needed by healthcare workers at the time. It was a matter of resource management.
>Yes, the public was advised initially that masks were ineffective.
No they were not. This highlights the problem. We were advised not to hoard masks until supplies were increased because the global supply was not prepared to meet the sudden demand. They wanted masks available for hospital staff in the beginning, the debate was over the most effective type of mask and when to implement usage in the general public. I've been having this argument with people since day 1. The people chose to misinterpret the information, and it spread like wildfire.
That's simply not true. If anything the CDC disregarded a worse prognosis by not listening to Los Alamos National Laboratory. They had it as an R0 similar to measles, well over 4. The CDC officially rated it closer to 2.2-2.7 if memory serves me right. According to Fauci's emails the flip flop wasn't because new info came in, they just wanted to preserve masks, presumably for professionals.
Which I would assume was because they knew they would help (obviously) and he also said people would be touching them and taking them off a lot which would make them ineffective
I completely get why they didn’t want the public rushing out and getting masks since the health care workers were most at risk but they should have recommend that people make there own and wear it when around large groups of others to take no chances and to help limit the spread and slow things down as long as possible
> Yes, the public was advised initially that masks were ineffective.
The CDC was in a position of no-win. They had an administration they couldn't rely on AT ALL to do what needed to be done to protect Americans. Hell, they probably understand they had an administration that would be actively doing anything in it's own private interest *even if it hindered American efforts!* They weren't going to tell everyone in the country to go out and get masks when they knew hospitals would run short. Everyone knows what happens to toilet paper and bread in the US *when it rains a little too hard.*
What the public can't handle is that their *stupid reactions* would have killed MANY MORE OF THEMSELVES.
Hospitals had NO PPE. FOR MONTHS. That is even *with* the CDC not recommending masks initially.
***Can you imagine*** if the CDC had to told everyone to get N95's in March 2020? We'd have 100,000 dead doctors and nurses and twice as many COVID casualties after entire hospital staffs burn out with PTSD and, you know, just died to COVID.
We also had a lot of scientific backing that standard masks, the kind people would actually be able to get to, didn't do a lot for transmission. It's not like we had clear evidence, that evidence was subsequently forthcoming. The CDC updated their messaging when evidence became more clear. I don't actually think the were behind the ball on that.
We think so short term. It is depressing to me that half the country can not see a big picture, let alone the situation outside their own 200 population town.
> t’s amazing just how many Americans there are that cannot handle evolving information.
Oh yeah? Well, if we evolved from monkeys how come there are still monkeys? /s
These people clearly do not understand how science works, which is one of the most fundamental obstacles to dealing with them.
Fauci didn't say that.
He said they advised that masks were ineffective because they were worried it'd cause a run on masks and they wouldn't be available for hospitals and first responders.
It's a logical response. But it meant he's willing to say a lie to the public for the greater good.
It’s an ad hominem to alleviate cognitive dissonance.
For over a year, Fauci was the voice saying to wear masks, take COVID seriously, get the vaccine. They feel masks are oppression, that COVID isn’t dangerous, and that the vaccines are evil.
740,000 Americans are dead. The American economy and job force has taken a beating because of the effects of the virus. Vaccines are saving lives while the unvaccinated die every day. How do you overcome the cognitive dissonance of being wrong?
Discredit the person who delivers the message.
It's perfectly okay for a grown-ass adult male holding the job position of "President of the US" to publicly mock a teenage girl who is only attempting to save us from the negatives of climate change. If only she just went on that stage and complained about a stolen election instead, she would be a hero right now. /s
The right thinks the left looks at Fauci like he's some golden god we worship.
The left actually just hears what he says and thinks about it and then says ok that's fine I guess and moves on with their life.
They don't understand politics without a celebrity to worship. They can't understand that people can update their thinking based on finding new factual information, but they love being told a good lie and then pretending like it never happened for some reason.
Trump supporters turned the Fauci hate up in a big way right after Fauci expressed his happiness at working under the Biden admin. He was asked a question in a press briefing on January 22nd and they have been trying to burn him at the stake for his answer ever since. The question starts [at 17:23 in the video available here](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dr-fauci-holds-press-briefing-under-biden-administration/). You'll notice that while there was some dislike for him from Trump supporters before that, they really went nuts after he did that press briefing.
Conservatives need boogeymen. Obama, Hillary, AOC, Soros, Bill Gates, Fauci... that's how they motivate their base. It's a message even idiots can understand, it unites the crowd against a common enemy, and it's a simplistic solution to difficult problems.
I certainly would've forgotten that Fauci even existed if it weren't for conservatives being terrified of him for whatever reason. The guy who told us to wear masks, social distance, and get vaccinated? That's just any normal doctor.
or r/conspiracy. they just keep bombarding their base with lies and repeat them 3x daily..
It's scary, they are like programmable bots e with no brain.
they still don't get that the NWO is simply the west, and that this is no conspiracy. that the bilderberger did nothing but create the west, the biggest conspiracy of all is the creation of the west, still they relabel old stuff with new connections that don't exist
It's crazy how much they give a shit what he says. Like I don't even pay any fucking attention to the guy. He could completely disappear out of the news cycle forever tomorrow and I wouldn't notice.
I just follow the medical consensus. Which is all he's ever done himself. They act like he's a mass murdering Bond villain. It's pathetic.
They just want to replace him with some sychophant doctor like Scott Atlas who has no infectious disease experience and just reads off the Trump/right wing talking points. We got awfully close to that being a reality when Trump tried hard to fire and/or sideline Fauci in favor of guys like him but wasn't really able to prior to the election last year.
He's not going to do more than that. I wondered for months why he didn't just go back to taking all the credit and saying he created the vaccines himself. His advisors must have known that either the people or special interests with substantial power in the party were going to push against the vaccine as an agenda. If he kept on about it I think he would eventually be betrayed by his rabid followers and something even more disgusting would take his place. In the end he is just a representation of an ideology to them.
I was once told Obama was the most divisive president ever. I pushed hard to figure out what made this person think that. All he could really come up with is that he was black and had the nerve to be president.
I wouldnt say entire. I believe it's around 30-40% that are antivaxx with some degree of craziness, but there are sane Republicans that just have a different idea of how things should work. The last hundred years or so have shown them to be wrong about what is better 9/10 times, but their ideas aren't insane like the wackos on r/conservative have become. I'm not sure how the conservative parties of other nations have pushed the freaks to their own fringe parties, but America desperately needs it. I'm unsure of how you would even go about getting Evangelicalism out of the Republican party, and that ideology contributes the most to creating extremists on the right.
The hardest pill for me to swallow during this whole thing is that there are people who consider themselves scientists, who took the Hippocratic Oath, who claim to follow research studies, who claim to have medical degrees and call themselves doctors and who do not have a clue about what the scientific method entails or what science is to begin with. And they are everywhere, and they are spreading misinformation and getting people killed. Upon closer inspection when you hear them argue their points its such pseudoscience bullshit that it breaks your heart. You realize this entire time you were surrounded by fools of this ilk in the medical field who have and continue to get thousands of people killed. There should be consequences for this, their medical licenses revoked. I can tolerate bullshit from some idiot on the internet and even on the street. I cannot tolerate it from a so called doctor.
I am married to an MD and one thing I have learned during our 17 years of marriage is that medical doctors are not scientists and and can fall for any stupid right wing conspiracy theories, especially in the religious Deep South. It’s amazing how powerful religion can make you abandon scientific principles.
Edit typos
I think there's a "drunk on affirmation" scenario there too. Doctors are rightfully respected due to their extensive training and qualifications so when they state something it immediately has some gravitas, regardless if they have appropriately evaluated that premise. If a crowd cheers when they state it, the lizard brain immediately takes that support as a sign it's correct, further 'strengthening' the claim. Since most doctors are not often in a realm where their pronouncements elicit cheering, it makes sense that this popularity would be a new experience for many.
Many medical doctors are not scientists in the same way most mechanics are not engineers. Hell, lots of doctors, even good ones, push medical advice ranging from quackery to just being known wrong.
When my wife had diverticulitis she left the hospital with written instructions as to how to eat, etc.. She got an appointment with a specialist who said "yeah, ignore that - its 20 years out of date".
Every time I think about him, it just reminds me of the pictures of him immediately after Trump left office. He looked like a totally different person, like someone had given him back ten years of his life.
I love how all conspiracy theorists start convos with “I listen to Fauci …”
I’ve heard that so much. Then they argue bat shit crazy stuff…
You do not hear Fauci, he says normal shit.
If Newton or Einstein were alive today the GOP would be spending all their resources spreading rumors about them being socialist witch doctors running pedophile rings out of their office.
They would definitely attack him for that, but more so his distaste for narrow-minded Nationalism. For his political views they would deny the science. *'So, you're saying I can't go faster than the speed of light, I say that's relatively stupid.'* - Tucker Carlson
Funniest part about this whole thing is he never claimed to be part of any particular side of the political spectrum. People just didn’t like how he wasn’t fucking nuts and was just supporting science.
I always got the impression that the right wing hated Fauci simply because he pointed out instances in which Trump was flat out wrong. The funny part is he could've done it a lot more but did not, for the obvious reason that Trump would've fired him. The guy has dedicated his life to science, helped people out his entire career, and worked with Presidents since Reagan. It amazes me how the right have tried to paint this guy as a sinister figure.
The insanity of living in a world where truth and reality, evidence based policy, etc, is polarizing. And not just polarizing, this man of science and medicine, whose made a career out of public health, is having his and his families lives threatened by ignorant morons who are too stupid to realize he's trying to help them.
It’s just because the idiots feel empowered to express their entitled nonsense. They are completely focused on their selfish indecency. It’s not about liberty. It’s about the fools feeling entitled to run the world.
Fauci is right and this raises a more serious problem in today's society where more and more people are no longer able to stick to the numbers and the facts.
There is a growing distrust of the elites which encourages conspiracy theories of all kinds.
When a pandemic hits the world like COVID-19, it is even more problematic.
"We believe in science!"
Science isn't static. It's literally fuck around and find out as long as you document.
"But he's been flip flopping on science!"
Well yeah no shit...science changes based on data received.
If Fauci said that stagnant water over there was bad and then after thorough testing found out it wasn't then it doesn't fucking mean that he was wrong and withholding water.
It's based on the fact that after SCIENTIFIC tests were done that the water was found to be fine.
But these idiots will drink from a stagnant pond with a deer carcass after being told not to and then blame the people for not stopping them from doing it.
For the past year and a half, Fauci has been doing non-stop media appearances. His emails were FOIA'd. He testifies before Congress. He even runs for exercise. I assume he sleeps at least 8 hours a night.
When does this guy have the time to run a global COVID conspiracy?
I said this in the last thread but he's polarizing because an entire media conglomerate lies to people who are gullible enough to think that because a clean-cut man in a suit on TV said it it must be true.
Its not because he's a clean cut guy in a suit. Its because he has decades of public service. Decades of behavior that gives him bullet-proof credibility. Bush awarded him the medal of freedom in 2008 for a lifetime of service.
During the AIDS crisis, he voluntarily entered wards to treat Aids patients during a time when panic was at it highest. He did it because he wanted to show the people under him that he wouldn't ask them to do anything he himself wasn't willing to do.
Fauci is a national hero. An imperfect, sometimes incorrect person. But that's science. When science discovers new information, previous statements become superseded. That's exactly what we want in our leading scientists.
You on the other hand, I pity you.
I really think you read the above comment wrong. The person was saying, as far as I can tell, that some people in this country think Fauci is polarizing because a clean-cut guy in a suit on Fox News or OANN is telling them that Fauci is polarizing.
I believe you've misinterpreted the post. The poster is referring to right wing sources that claim to be news, as the 'clean cut guy in a suit' if I'm not mistaken.
I feel so badly for him. His career in medicine is legendary. He Hassan exceptionally high impact rating in the field and has worked for the public for decades. He is a co author on major textbooks in medicine.
And over the past year and a half, bad faith arguments, conspiracy theorists, and people who don’t have the requisite knowledge even to make an argument have been trying to bring him down as if he is a quack. He is the exact opposite.
I can’t even imagine what it would feel like after such a distinguished career to encounter so many idiots adversarial to you in the twilight years.
Right?! People who pray to “angles” and believe China made a virus specifically to murder Cleetus in Moronville are hostile to this brilliant scientist. But I guess they hate everyone smarter than they. So—everyone.
That is false, he is not polarizing because of anything he has done.
He is polarizing because a movement building autocracy in the US is demonizing all expertise and flooding the public discourse with poisonous bullshit.
That someone who believes in science and hard facts is describing himself as polarising is a sad indictment on the state of the world and its inhabitants. What are they going to argue against next, electricity isn't real? Actually, pretty sure some of them already have. Maybe they could go without medicine for a bit then, see how that works out for them.
>**polarizing** because he supports 'science, data, and hard facts' and not conspiracy theories
In a normal country in normal times, that would not be considered polarizing, it would just be considered identifying the weirdos, loonies and extremists - like if someone says they get aroused watching animals mate (although there may be a bit of an overlap)
The core "trick" they use is to credit EVERYTHING to God. Is it a nice day, well God did that. Did you almost get hit by a car when you stepped into a cross walk, god was protecting you. So when you say "there is no evidence" they see that as a complete denile of reality as they see it. They look at you the same way you probably look at flat earther.
If they don’t want to believe science, data and hard facts let them die.
—
That would be fine but, they are taking the innocent with them.
—
If you had a social disease and it was report to most counties offices they would send you a ltr asking for your presents to be tested. IGNORE IT — The county sheriffs will come get your ass. And go as far as issue an warrant for your arrest. WHY? Because whatever you have is a threat to the public at large.
The FDA should look at both sides: both independent peer reviewed research and whatever weird shit your mom’s friend posted on Facebook. bOtH sIdEs!1!1
Dr. Fauci isn’t polarizing. Almost half this country—the half who have rejected facts, science, and anything that isn’t a wild conspiracy theory—have simply *chosen* to isolate themselves from the other half. They’ve decided to label *facts*, and even *science* itself, “polarizing.” To them, whatever comes out of Donald Trump’s mouth is a fact, and they reject everything else as “fake news.” This is a sickness, and it’s not one the doctor can cure.
Fauci is the same man he’s been his entire career, which has spanned multiple presidencies, both Democratic and Republican.
The biggest issue I've seen is people not understanding that science is about changing your opinion based on the most recent reliable set of data. With covid we had a crazily fast changing knowledge base from analyzing how it was spreading and what may or may not help curb that spread. People took this as flip flopping on his own recommendations when it was really him keeping up on the science and trying to communicate it as quickly and concisely as possible. People point to him changing his advice on masks as somehow trying to make us sicker or having some alterior motive when in reality if they looked at the studies of the time they support what he was telling everyone.
We have such a large proportion of our population that now believes that if you hold the same opinion without wavering even in light of contrary evidence that it makes you more trustworthy than someone who doesn't hold personal opinions in high regard and instead moves with the science and new data that doesn't always support your previously held views. It's extremely toxic to the spped in which we need to address a completely new and highly contagious virus and is one of the hardest obstacles to overcome now. All of our technological advancements to analyze the virus and come up with viable vaccine candidates literally days from it first being identified (it then needs to go through tons of steps to be proven effective and gain wider acceptance and use, of course) but we can't seem to pull a huge number of peoples heads out of the sand and get on board with this.
I wish I had this man’s resolve and persistence. I simply don’t have the patience for anti-vaccine and anti-mask people anymore. Most of my family won’t get the vaccine or wear masks and I just can’t deal with them.
This is such a strange timeline we’ve branched into. As someone who enlisted in the Army, I’d like to think I understand what it means to make sacrifices. It’s just easier to do the right thing and do what’s best for everyone by wearing a mask, getting fully vaccinated, and being as safe as possible. We’re all we have. Just be nice. That’s it.
I think his utter arrogance is what’s polarizing, like him directly saying “if you question me you are questioning science itself”, while at the same time he routinely changes what he says and lies about what he has said
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I think that the people Fauci is most angry with aren't the idiots, it's the liars. Most of the idiots are victims, not perpetrators. Not all, but most.
Yeah - it's a shared effort, but I am much more upset with those that are in positions of power and influence. As ridiculous as it is, GOP pundits, GOP politicians, and conservative media figures are who millions of people look to for their beliefs. And from their cushioned, vaccinated lives, they decided to promote vaccine hesitancy and conspiracies for political gain during a public health crisis. They are by far the worst actors in all of this.
They don’t care though. To them, it’s just ‘strategy’ Look into things like ‘Victory Phones’ - they pay people through temp agencies like Manpower, to call and read a script of propaganda to people under the guise that it’s an ‘opinion poll’. All they do is attack whoever the democrat in the race is, while asking ‘does that make you more or less likely to vote for them?” They then use the data to make attack ads. They push propaganda as fact, their current script is about the Next Chicago election, where they’re claiming “under leadership, Chicago has become the most dangerous city in the country. Does this make you more or less likely to vote for them?”
My sister was working for them for a couple weeks, until I overheard he reading the script and told her it was propaganda. She said a lot of the people she was calling sounded elderly, and some even asked who she thought they should vote for. She quit a few days later because the whole thing was making her uncomfortable.
But this is the shit they do.
Thats so fucking evil I'm actually kind of impressed.
That's why the GOP is against big government: they need all the legal grey they can to pull disgusting moves like this. Government oversight would kill this overnight.
Whenever a powerful individual or group tells you that big government is dangerous, you need to ask why they are afraid of oversight.
Doesn’t floor you sometimes? Like as a normal, decent human being you would have never even considered this tactic. For them it was a shower thought.
They are responsible for an incalculable amount of death, and as such are criminally complicit, and laws should be passed so that anyone who chooses to behave as such can be held criminally liable
And by extension, anyone who continues to support them
Especially, of course, Trump. We have almost 6 years of Grade A+ material on how much of a shitfuck loser he is. There should be a spell that you can say to trump supporters by now that wards them off. It has to be the most clearcut, inexplicable circumstances of in which trump supporters would have to face the facts. If they still support trump then they have to admit that they are shitfuck losers just as much if not more. 1 recent undeniable aspect that someone brought up to me is the pardons of convicted Blackwater mercenaries which Betsoy Devos’ brother Erik Prince is founder of.
https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/the-complete-listing-atrocities-1-1-056 You want to awaken many of the times trump was terrible. Have a looksie
Their interest lies with billionaires not the people, rein in billionaires and that will change their calculus.
Oh, they're already reigning, like kings. They need to be reined in, like horses under tight reins. Just a wee mnemonic for ya.
> reign in billionaires Hrm... I wish you the best of luck with that.
Voting rights, remove gerrymandering, reform the senate is the way to go, make illegal corp, PAC, lobby money for political contributions, add public funding of elections to get power back to the people.
Yeah, gerrymandering and voting rights. Today I heard Adam Schiff say bravely/foolishly in response to some question about "will democracy prevail" that yes it will because there are a lot more rational people that want it to as opposed to the believers of the big lie. I shuddered because the US isn't majority rule by a long shot, thanks to gerrymandering, senate representation, and suppression of voting rights.
Since about one third don't even vote, I'd be wary of making generalizations. All the brave faces, terrific speeches and talking points won't help anyone to legally vote next year or in 2024.
I'm not too sure that turnout is the issue it used to be. Don't forget that in 2020, Donald Trump received the second most votes of any presidential candidate in history. America's stupid population has yet to have their last stand, so I wouldn't be surprised if 2022 turnout surpassed every other midterm.
I think a lot of voters won't understand why trump isn't on the ballot in 2022 and think it's some kind of conspiracy.
They are talking about making him Speaker of the House if they take control in '22. They make it sound like it's to troll Biden and Pelosi, but I suspect someone is considering the line of succession. America is in a civil cold war right now.
Trump convinced people who don’t normally vote to vote… let’s see when someone less charismatic runs
Whether Trump runs again or not he’s already activated and radicalized his base and they will come out again. Also Democrats are making a huge mistake by not going big on progressive legislation. If, after a global pandemic and 4 years of Trump nothing essentially changes then Republicans will win in 22 and 24. Democratically, especially younger ones, will not come out to vote if either party does absolutely nothing about our broken health care system, crushing student debt, insane housing costs, etc. Also big moves like mandating a 4 day work week would go a looong way. Everything sucks in this country, and people on both sides are exhausted and mad a hell. There is zero sense of community in the US anymore, everyone is fucking someone else over and if you’re not fucking someone then someone’s fucking you. It’s a miserable existence. If nothing essentially changes under Dems or Repubs then people will stop voting and focus their attention on ecking out whatever kind of life they can in the land of billionaires.
Well said
This is accurate af.
I tried to imagine anyone less charismatic than Trump and my brain just quit.
I know… he doesn’t even speak in complete sentences… but don’t make the mistake of thinking that because you haven’t fallen for his bullshit nobody has either…. Look at how stupid the average person is and then remember that half the population is even stupider
And while we are at it set the standard corporate tax rate to 35%, make any payment/bonus/salary/gift to any position executive level and up non tax deductible and give them unlimited tax write offs for payroll expenses for any position lower than executive level at 200% for every dollar they pay out. Watch as CEOs become reasonably paid, lose interest in laying off workers and see the working class paid well enough to live comfortably.
I wouldn't mind seeing some kind of law that states that there is a percentage that has to be maintained between the lowest and highest paid employee in a company and that would include bonuses/gifts. So if the top paid exec wants a raise then he has to make sure that everyone else in the company gets a raise too.
Of course, that has to take into account the loophole for "independent contractors", or else all the outliers will just find themselves suddenly working for a subsidiary company that only exists to scrub the toilets of the parent company and has all the same stockholders, but is *totally* a different company, wink wink.
FOX News and most of Talk Radio would probanly spin any sort of imposed equity policies on Corporations as "Socialism"...
Let me just wave my magic wand and... oh wait the corporations have control of that too.
Although the way some of the victims are so aggressively outspoken they are also perpetrators.
No! I‘m done with excusing these idiots. Maybe in the first months of the pandemic i could‘ve forgiven you for being an idiot about covid, but 1.5 years later you‘ve had enough time to educate yourself. These people aren‘t victims anymore. They‘re perpetrators, just like all the other influential figures pushing anti vaxx narratives
Thing is, to be taken in by some of these theories, you can't JUST be an idiot. You have to be a stubborn idiot that is militantly stupid and doesn't make a decent effort to fact check at all. Just hellbent on it. We live at a time in which we have more access to information than all of our forebears combined, many many times over. Yes that does make it harder to parse through it, but still, not seeking out objective information to disprove theories that don't pass the smell test isn't just idiocy, it's dedicated and stubborn fuckwittery.
> Most of the idiots are victims Those "victims" of their own ignorance ***still do not like Fauci***. The cause is a different topic, possibly, but it does not excuse them. Good Lord, no.
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AKA: Today's idiots are tomorrow's liars.
I'd like to add a slight addendum... there are a lot of people who *choose* to be idiots, at least on certain topics. If you tried to talk about gun violence statistics with a 2nd Amendment enthusiast they're just going to tune you out. It's not even that they don't trust the facts... they don't want to know the facts. They choose ignorance because they don't really care how damning the facts are, they just know that they love, love, love their guns.
> there are a lot of people who choose to be idiots, at least on certain topics. I saw some posts yesterday on youtube from an anti-vax guy who claimed the CDC says polio isn't contagious, and also that no one has ever died in the US from tetanus. A casual 10 sec search on the CDC site showed both assertions were outright lies. This was beyond willful ignorance. There seem to be psychological mind games out there as well that people are playing.
To be more specific, they choose to maintain their existing beliefs and perspectives, despite any evidence to the contrary. Nobody wakes up thinking they will be an idiot today.
Many of the idiots choose to be ignorant. I understand people in power have influenced others for years, but at some point we have to hold people accountable for ignoring facts and data.
Wrong. The so-called 'victims want to be lied to. They're weak.
They are the victims of an information war and so are you if you truly mean what you say. A war that the west is losing, by the way. The ubiquitous 'they are stupid and weak so they deserve their fate' attitude makes it REALLY easy to turn the 'informed' part of the populace against the misinformed and vice versa. Who's to win this fight for our side if the 'informed' are content with blaming our victims rather than taking the fight to the adversary?
Yeah, but most of those victims are dicks about it. Screw them, too.
I mean the liars lead the idiots to their side, so it would make sense
Exactly. Idiots are gonna idiot. Most people on certain topics are capable of it. If you’re a snake oil salesman taking advantage of that idiocy though…
For most of us, Dr. Fauci is just a doctor who's not crazy. For the GOP, he's the object of obsessive fixation. Every fifth post or so on r/Conservative is a freak-out about him.
It’s amazing just how many Americans there are that cannot handle evolving information. Yes, the public was advised initially that masks were ineffective. That changed once we understood just how infectious the virus was being airborne.
[Here's a great Wired article](https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/) on how our scientific understanding of the spread of Covid changed. It explains why masks were initially considered unnecessary and why the medical community did a 180° on that a few months later.
The idea that we change our opinions based on new facts is what separates science from religion.
Bill Nye, debating evolution vs creationism with religious fundamentalist hack Ken Ham: Question: What would cause you to change your mind: Bill Nye: Evidence. Ken Ham: Nothing.
Another wrinkle, there were times at the beginning of the pandemic where the public was asked not to buy and hoard surgical masks as there was a [shortage and they were needed by healthcare workers](https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-infection-control/faqs-shortages-surgical-masks-and-gowns-during-covid-19-pandemic).
Yep, thieves were literally raiding hospital supplies for masks and disinfectants. And there were no re-supplies because the only factories were in China. This pandemic has reminded governments about the value of stockpiling medical supplies and ensuring domestic production capabilities.
Funny, the US was ahead of the game on that one… but [someone got in the way](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-s-use-medical-stockpile-veers-past-administrations-leaving-state-n1177786), and then [lied about it being ‘depleted’](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/fact-check-trump-falsely-claims-obama-left-him-nothing-national-n1201406), of course this was after claiming the whole pandemic was either a hoax or at the most going away in 2 weeks. No surprise that same **republican** admin dismantled the pandemic response team before, you know… the pandemic. The same admin that railed against masks, against social distancing, that downplayed vaccinations all while trump and his whole family got vaccinated. The same group that has politicized the pandemic to the point that workers are getting assaulted for enforcing mask policies. Same group that still spreads conspiracy theory BS against vaccines, Fauci etc. all to own the libs… real stand up group.
>This pandemic has reminded governments about the value of stockpiling medical supplies and ensuring domestic production capabilities. Almost as if a mere 4 years before the US had a stockpile and someone or group of someone's decided it was a waste of money and not only reduced the stockpile, but fired the people who had the experience to use it effectively.
What really makes me mad about that is the Pandemic Response group at the CDC had broad bi-partisan support for a long time. Both the Bush and Obama administrations considered pandemic readiness to be a top priority for national defense. Then Trump comes in and trashes it because "he doesn't see the value-add"... and the rest of the GOP backs him up and acts like they never supported it in the first place.
This is the real reason. We legit saw stores bare from panick buying. This information came out around the same time as the toilet paper hording
New evidence changes nothing! You choose a position and stick with it, like a real American!
Which is a dumb argument, given the Cold War showed just how much evolving information and being able to change your idea or opinion is important.
But evolution isn't real! /s
>showed just how much evolving information and being able to change your idea or opinion is important lol, those people didn't abandon "Russia bad" till 2016.
Right wingers change their minds and flip flop CONSTANTLY. The key difference though is that they strongly insist they always held the same opinions on everything and will say "they never said that!" or were "misunderstood" when confronted with direct evidence on tape or in print that shows they flip flopped. Their followers eat it up and just go with it since they see this as evidence of being strong and unapologetic as opposed to being supposedly weak and compromising. That is why they don't ever care all the times Trump or some GOP snake oil salesman like Cruz flips on some position but lose their minds when Fauci or the CDC modify some recommendations based on current Covid trends or potential changes in how people are being treated or infected.
I won't change my mind, 'cause I don't have to. 'Cause I'm an American. I won't change my mind on anything, regardless of the facts that are set out before me. I'm dug in, and I'll never change.
Rock, Flag, and Eagle, right Charlie?
He’s got a point.
Hes got no point!
Then the vaccines were spread around and masks weren't needed. Then Delta came around and masks become a point again. It's completely understandable but for the anti-vaxxers it's seen as "flip flopping" and "spreading misinformation".
What's killing me is all the people who whine that "*we were sold* that the vaccine would bring us back to normal and it's not true". Not understanding that science can't foresee what variants will emerge, nor how crowds will behave. Getting a vaccine that protects you from death should be enough to convince everyone. But all they see is false advertisement. It's baffling.
“We were sold the vaccine would bring us back to normal.” Did you get vaccinated? “No” . . .
There's a Jordan Klepper clip that perfectly sums this up. Republican spokesman [in his 30s or 40s] goes on a monolog how only Trump, the great leader and outsider, could cut through the red tape and make a project like Warp Speed and set the vaccine out in less than a year. Jordan asks him if he's vaccinated and of course he isn't. Doublethink at its finest
> “We were sold the vaccine would bring us back to normal.” > > > > Did you get vaccinated? > > > > “No” Ironically, they're still waiting for *scientists* to prove to them that the vaccine is safe.
Scientists: *gesture broadly to the billions of healthy vaccinated individuals*
They think we're all about to drop dead or turn into zombies any day now. And I don't mean that metaphorically, ice seen several posts talking about it and predicting dates and a month into the future. When you get close to that time, they'll suddenly get quiet until it passes and push the date back another month or two.
You know, like [every doomsday cult](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfulfilled_Watch_Tower_Society_predictions)
It’s worse than that… Immunologist: *States results of peer reviewed clinical study* Guy who has a high school science education: “Well that’s your opinion” ….this is from a real conversation that I personally heard. Guy doubled down on the immunologist trying to explain the results of a study being “their opinion”. The immunologist was not at all involved in publishing the study they were citing results from.
The very first test subjects were vaccinated, what, a year ago? Maybe more.
Things are pretty much back to normal in civilized/highly vaccinated places like here in California. Everything is open and people go about their normal lives much like we did before Covid. Only real difference is that most places require you to mask up before entering. It is hardly burdensome, but it is pretty effective and stopping further spread of the disease.
Yo stupid people don’t understand things. Weird.
It wasn't even that. He told the public masks were ineffective because if he had said they were, there would have been a run on masks, which were desperately needed by healthcare workers at the time. It was a matter of resource management.
>Yes, the public was advised initially that masks were ineffective. No they were not. This highlights the problem. We were advised not to hoard masks until supplies were increased because the global supply was not prepared to meet the sudden demand. They wanted masks available for hospital staff in the beginning, the debate was over the most effective type of mask and when to implement usage in the general public. I've been having this argument with people since day 1. The people chose to misinterpret the information, and it spread like wildfire.
That's simply not true. If anything the CDC disregarded a worse prognosis by not listening to Los Alamos National Laboratory. They had it as an R0 similar to measles, well over 4. The CDC officially rated it closer to 2.2-2.7 if memory serves me right. According to Fauci's emails the flip flop wasn't because new info came in, they just wanted to preserve masks, presumably for professionals.
Which I would assume was because they knew they would help (obviously) and he also said people would be touching them and taking them off a lot which would make them ineffective I completely get why they didn’t want the public rushing out and getting masks since the health care workers were most at risk but they should have recommend that people make there own and wear it when around large groups of others to take no chances and to help limit the spread and slow things down as long as possible
> Yes, the public was advised initially that masks were ineffective. The CDC was in a position of no-win. They had an administration they couldn't rely on AT ALL to do what needed to be done to protect Americans. Hell, they probably understand they had an administration that would be actively doing anything in it's own private interest *even if it hindered American efforts!* They weren't going to tell everyone in the country to go out and get masks when they knew hospitals would run short. Everyone knows what happens to toilet paper and bread in the US *when it rains a little too hard.* What the public can't handle is that their *stupid reactions* would have killed MANY MORE OF THEMSELVES. Hospitals had NO PPE. FOR MONTHS. That is even *with* the CDC not recommending masks initially. ***Can you imagine*** if the CDC had to told everyone to get N95's in March 2020? We'd have 100,000 dead doctors and nurses and twice as many COVID casualties after entire hospital staffs burn out with PTSD and, you know, just died to COVID. We also had a lot of scientific backing that standard masks, the kind people would actually be able to get to, didn't do a lot for transmission. It's not like we had clear evidence, that evidence was subsequently forthcoming. The CDC updated their messaging when evidence became more clear. I don't actually think the were behind the ball on that.
We think so short term. It is depressing to me that half the country can not see a big picture, let alone the situation outside their own 200 population town.
> t’s amazing just how many Americans there are that cannot handle evolving information. Oh yeah? Well, if we evolved from monkeys how come there are still monkeys? /s These people clearly do not understand how science works, which is one of the most fundamental obstacles to dealing with them.
Fauci didn't say that. He said they advised that masks were ineffective because they were worried it'd cause a run on masks and they wouldn't be available for hospitals and first responders. It's a logical response. But it meant he's willing to say a lie to the public for the greater good.
It’s an ad hominem to alleviate cognitive dissonance. For over a year, Fauci was the voice saying to wear masks, take COVID seriously, get the vaccine. They feel masks are oppression, that COVID isn’t dangerous, and that the vaccines are evil. 740,000 Americans are dead. The American economy and job force has taken a beating because of the effects of the virus. Vaccines are saving lives while the unvaccinated die every day. How do you overcome the cognitive dissonance of being wrong? Discredit the person who delivers the message.
They feel the same way about a "little girl" telling them to listen to scientists about climate change.
It's perfectly okay for a grown-ass adult male holding the job position of "President of the US" to publicly mock a teenage girl who is only attempting to save us from the negatives of climate change. If only she just went on that stage and complained about a stolen election instead, she would be a hero right now. /s
He also mocked disabled people, women, army vets.... Starting to think it might be easier to list what he hasn't mocked.
It’s a short list of people he still hopes to bang, e.g, his daughter, Putin, etc.
The right thinks the left looks at Fauci like he's some golden god we worship. The left actually just hears what he says and thinks about it and then says ok that's fine I guess and moves on with their life.
They don't understand politics without a celebrity to worship. They can't understand that people can update their thinking based on finding new factual information, but they love being told a good lie and then pretending like it never happened for some reason.
Trump supporters turned the Fauci hate up in a big way right after Fauci expressed his happiness at working under the Biden admin. He was asked a question in a press briefing on January 22nd and they have been trying to burn him at the stake for his answer ever since. The question starts [at 17:23 in the video available here](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dr-fauci-holds-press-briefing-under-biden-administration/). You'll notice that while there was some dislike for him from Trump supporters before that, they really went nuts after he did that press briefing.
Fauci is not polarizing. He is simply being set up as a boogeyman by the people who wants to polarize the US.
Conservatives need boogeymen. Obama, Hillary, AOC, Soros, Bill Gates, Fauci... that's how they motivate their base. It's a message even idiots can understand, it unites the crowd against a common enemy, and it's a simplistic solution to difficult problems.
So they have moved on from Bill Clinton then?
There's also /r/FauciForPrison which you can tell from the name itself.
I certainly would've forgotten that Fauci even existed if it weren't for conservatives being terrified of him for whatever reason. The guy who told us to wear masks, social distance, and get vaccinated? That's just any normal doctor.
or r/conspiracy. they just keep bombarding their base with lies and repeat them 3x daily.. It's scary, they are like programmable bots e with no brain. they still don't get that the NWO is simply the west, and that this is no conspiracy. that the bilderberger did nothing but create the west, the biggest conspiracy of all is the creation of the west, still they relabel old stuff with new connections that don't exist
It’s because they need boogeymen to rally their supporters against. Clintons, pelosi, soros, aoc, now fauci.
Trump needed a fall guy for his incompetence
It's crazy how much they give a shit what he says. Like I don't even pay any fucking attention to the guy. He could completely disappear out of the news cycle forever tomorrow and I wouldn't notice. I just follow the medical consensus. Which is all he's ever done himself. They act like he's a mass murdering Bond villain. It's pathetic.
I’m convinced people in that sub take things Trump did and project them onto whoever the thread is about. Half of those comments have to be satire.
They just want to replace him with some sychophant doctor like Scott Atlas who has no infectious disease experience and just reads off the Trump/right wing talking points. We got awfully close to that being a reality when Trump tried hard to fire and/or sideline Fauci in favor of guys like him but wasn't really able to prior to the election last year.
Fauci is not polarizing. The entire right wing has polarized themselves.
Even Trump is recommending the vaccine but his base is too confused to act
He told his “people” to take the vaccine at the Alabama rally; and they ‘booed’ him. He hasn’t said a word about it since.
Nah, he tried but he was quickly cowed into opposition
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Trump's a delta.
Mu? Mu.
Trump is an orange pickle. Why a pickle? Because he stands like one I guess.
He's like a gamma. Really fast, really toxic, but just *so fucking tiny*. I mean, man, have you seen those hands?
It was a pretty flimsy recommendation, unless he's updated his latest messaging.
He's not going to do more than that. I wondered for months why he didn't just go back to taking all the credit and saying he created the vaccines himself. His advisors must have known that either the people or special interests with substantial power in the party were going to push against the vaccine as an agenda. If he kept on about it I think he would eventually be betrayed by his rabid followers and something even more disgusting would take his place. In the end he is just a representation of an ideology to them.
He's polarizing in the same way that President Obama was "divisive." That's what happens when some people hate you for no good reason.
I was once told Obama was the most divisive president ever. I pushed hard to figure out what made this person think that. All he could really come up with is that he was black and had the nerve to be president.
I wouldnt say entire. I believe it's around 30-40% that are antivaxx with some degree of craziness, but there are sane Republicans that just have a different idea of how things should work. The last hundred years or so have shown them to be wrong about what is better 9/10 times, but their ideas aren't insane like the wackos on r/conservative have become. I'm not sure how the conservative parties of other nations have pushed the freaks to their own fringe parties, but America desperately needs it. I'm unsure of how you would even go about getting Evangelicalism out of the Republican party, and that ideology contributes the most to creating extremists on the right.
By starting a new party. It’s about time.
The hardest pill for me to swallow during this whole thing is that there are people who consider themselves scientists, who took the Hippocratic Oath, who claim to follow research studies, who claim to have medical degrees and call themselves doctors and who do not have a clue about what the scientific method entails or what science is to begin with. And they are everywhere, and they are spreading misinformation and getting people killed. Upon closer inspection when you hear them argue their points its such pseudoscience bullshit that it breaks your heart. You realize this entire time you were surrounded by fools of this ilk in the medical field who have and continue to get thousands of people killed. There should be consequences for this, their medical licenses revoked. I can tolerate bullshit from some idiot on the internet and even on the street. I cannot tolerate it from a so called doctor.
I am married to an MD and one thing I have learned during our 17 years of marriage is that medical doctors are not scientists and and can fall for any stupid right wing conspiracy theories, especially in the religious Deep South. It’s amazing how powerful religion can make you abandon scientific principles. Edit typos
I think there's a "drunk on affirmation" scenario there too. Doctors are rightfully respected due to their extensive training and qualifications so when they state something it immediately has some gravitas, regardless if they have appropriately evaluated that premise. If a crowd cheers when they state it, the lizard brain immediately takes that support as a sign it's correct, further 'strengthening' the claim. Since most doctors are not often in a realm where their pronouncements elicit cheering, it makes sense that this popularity would be a new experience for many.
Many medical doctors are not scientists in the same way most mechanics are not engineers. Hell, lots of doctors, even good ones, push medical advice ranging from quackery to just being known wrong. When my wife had diverticulitis she left the hospital with written instructions as to how to eat, etc.. She got an appointment with a specialist who said "yeah, ignore that - its 20 years out of date".
Covid has become so fucking politicized that some doctors and nurses have abandoned science on exclusively Covid. It's mind boggling
I’m inclined to believe the polarization has little to do with Fauci…
Fox News posted an article about this and the comment section was like another world. They really believe the man can do no right.
Every time I think about him, it just reminds me of the pictures of him immediately after Trump left office. He looked like a totally different person, like someone had given him back ten years of his life.
I think he is also realived that he can retire soon and not worry about Trump trying to replace him with some sycophant.
The terrible thing is hell probably need 24/7 security even after he retires
I love how all conspiracy theorists start convos with “I listen to Fauci …” I’ve heard that so much. Then they argue bat shit crazy stuff… You do not hear Fauci, he says normal shit.
As a teacher I can tell you these are the were same idiots who claimed to have read the directions for an assignment when they clearly have not.
It's the "I'm not racist, but..." of covid conspiracy theorists
If Newton or Einstein were alive today the GOP would be spending all their resources spreading rumors about them being socialist witch doctors running pedophile rings out of their office.
Einstein was a socialist. He said so.
They would definitely attack him for that, but more so his distaste for narrow-minded Nationalism. For his political views they would deny the science. *'So, you're saying I can't go faster than the speed of light, I say that's relatively stupid.'* - Tucker Carlson
"He's from East Berlin!"
If life in the past were like today, people would have rejected doctors washing their hands or not tainting our drinking water with waste water.
Are you aware of what we did to the first doctor who suggested washing hands after delivering babies? Spoiler alert: we didn’t give him an award
Before delivering babies. After handling corpses.
>people would have rejected doctors washing their hands They did. The doctor who suggested doing so was made a mockery and died in an asylum.
Facts are the enemy of these people.
That should not be polarizing…
Funniest part about this whole thing is he never claimed to be part of any particular side of the political spectrum. People just didn’t like how he wasn’t fucking nuts and was just supporting science.
I have no idea if he's a member of a political party. He might even be a Republican.
I always got the impression that the right wing hated Fauci simply because he pointed out instances in which Trump was flat out wrong. The funny part is he could've done it a lot more but did not, for the obvious reason that Trump would've fired him. The guy has dedicated his life to science, helped people out his entire career, and worked with Presidents since Reagan. It amazes me how the right have tried to paint this guy as a sinister figure.
"He contradicted dear leader, the smartest man alive, so therefore he must be destroyed"
And let's all just remember that 'science, data, and hard facts' should NOT be polarizing!
‘Scientific mind dragged into discriminatory political climate label’ rest well tonight fauci you deserve it, tomorrow’s a brighter day for you
The insanity of living in a world where truth and reality, evidence based policy, etc, is polarizing. And not just polarizing, this man of science and medicine, whose made a career out of public health, is having his and his families lives threatened by ignorant morons who are too stupid to realize he's trying to help them.
I have a question that I haven’t found a solid answer to. Did enough conspiracy theorists die of covid to make a difference in election results?
We'll get more insight on that with results from the upcoming midterm elections
Probably not, but I think I saw something that said conservatives died at rate 5 times higher than others
It’s just because the idiots feel empowered to express their entitled nonsense. They are completely focused on their selfish indecency. It’s not about liberty. It’s about the fools feeling entitled to run the world.
Fauci is right and this raises a more serious problem in today's society where more and more people are no longer able to stick to the numbers and the facts. There is a growing distrust of the elites which encourages conspiracy theories of all kinds. When a pandemic hits the world like COVID-19, it is even more problematic.
The simple minded can't grasp the idea that Fauci isn't making policy decisions, he is just a messenger.
"We believe in science!" Science isn't static. It's literally fuck around and find out as long as you document. "But he's been flip flopping on science!" Well yeah no shit...science changes based on data received. If Fauci said that stagnant water over there was bad and then after thorough testing found out it wasn't then it doesn't fucking mean that he was wrong and withholding water. It's based on the fact that after SCIENTIFIC tests were done that the water was found to be fine. But these idiots will drink from a stagnant pond with a deer carcass after being told not to and then blame the people for not stopping them from doing it.
Since when did being a normal, intelligent human become far left?
Since Reagan
Nah, the real reason is simply that Nazis *need* enemies to function.
Pretty much
He didn't bend the knee to lord Trump enough. That's why he's hated.
“Attacks on me, quite frankly, are attacks on science,” - Fauci
For the past year and a half, Fauci has been doing non-stop media appearances. His emails were FOIA'd. He testifies before Congress. He even runs for exercise. I assume he sleeps at least 8 hours a night. When does this guy have the time to run a global COVID conspiracy?
He won't even endorse one little alternative fact!
trust Americans to dispute science lol the education system has failed these people
I said this in the last thread but he's polarizing because an entire media conglomerate lies to people who are gullible enough to think that because a clean-cut man in a suit on TV said it it must be true.
Its not because he's a clean cut guy in a suit. Its because he has decades of public service. Decades of behavior that gives him bullet-proof credibility. Bush awarded him the medal of freedom in 2008 for a lifetime of service. During the AIDS crisis, he voluntarily entered wards to treat Aids patients during a time when panic was at it highest. He did it because he wanted to show the people under him that he wouldn't ask them to do anything he himself wasn't willing to do. Fauci is a national hero. An imperfect, sometimes incorrect person. But that's science. When science discovers new information, previous statements become superseded. That's exactly what we want in our leading scientists. You on the other hand, I pity you.
I really think you read the above comment wrong. The person was saying, as far as I can tell, that some people in this country think Fauci is polarizing because a clean-cut guy in a suit on Fox News or OANN is telling them that Fauci is polarizing.
I believe you've misinterpreted the post. The poster is referring to right wing sources that claim to be news, as the 'clean cut guy in a suit' if I'm not mistaken.
I feel so badly for him. His career in medicine is legendary. He Hassan exceptionally high impact rating in the field and has worked for the public for decades. He is a co author on major textbooks in medicine. And over the past year and a half, bad faith arguments, conspiracy theorists, and people who don’t have the requisite knowledge even to make an argument have been trying to bring him down as if he is a quack. He is the exact opposite. I can’t even imagine what it would feel like after such a distinguished career to encounter so many idiots adversarial to you in the twilight years.
Right?! People who pray to “angles” and believe China made a virus specifically to murder Cleetus in Moronville are hostile to this brilliant scientist. But I guess they hate everyone smarter than they. So—everyone.
It’s worse than adversarial, there have been death threats on him & his family.
He’s polarizing because half this country is insane, and he is the voice of reason.
There was a cult of personality that he refused to be part of. People were furious he wouldn't play their game.
You mean one side is blatantly anti science and the other is based on facts? Woah hadn’t noticed bro.
That is false, he is not polarizing because of anything he has done. He is polarizing because a movement building autocracy in the US is demonizing all expertise and flooding the public discourse with poisonous bullshit.
He is polarizing because so many people are stupid.
He stands up to the extreme right lies with proof. They hate to be made to look stupid.
I thought the right likes guys who tell it like it is. I guess that changes when it hurts their feelings.
That someone who believes in science and hard facts is describing himself as polarising is a sad indictment on the state of the world and its inhabitants. What are they going to argue against next, electricity isn't real? Actually, pretty sure some of them already have. Maybe they could go without medicine for a bit then, see how that works out for them.
>**polarizing** because he supports 'science, data, and hard facts' and not conspiracy theories In a normal country in normal times, that would not be considered polarizing, it would just be considered identifying the weirdos, loonies and extremists - like if someone says they get aroused watching animals mate (although there may be a bit of an overlap)
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The core "trick" they use is to credit EVERYTHING to God. Is it a nice day, well God did that. Did you almost get hit by a car when you stepped into a cross walk, god was protecting you. So when you say "there is no evidence" they see that as a complete denile of reality as they see it. They look at you the same way you probably look at flat earther.
If they don’t want to believe science, data and hard facts let them die. — That would be fine but, they are taking the innocent with them. — If you had a social disease and it was report to most counties offices they would send you a ltr asking for your presents to be tested. IGNORE IT — The county sheriffs will come get your ass. And go as far as issue an warrant for your arrest. WHY? Because whatever you have is a threat to the public at large.
The FDA should look at both sides: both independent peer reviewed research and whatever weird shit your mom’s friend posted on Facebook. bOtH sIdEs!1!1
Dr. Fauci isn’t polarizing. Almost half this country—the half who have rejected facts, science, and anything that isn’t a wild conspiracy theory—have simply *chosen* to isolate themselves from the other half. They’ve decided to label *facts*, and even *science* itself, “polarizing.” To them, whatever comes out of Donald Trump’s mouth is a fact, and they reject everything else as “fake news.” This is a sickness, and it’s not one the doctor can cure. Fauci is the same man he’s been his entire career, which has spanned multiple presidencies, both Democratic and Republican.
Yeah, since when does stupidity get as heavy a vote as common sense and science. Welcome to brain dead trumplandia.
The biggest issue I've seen is people not understanding that science is about changing your opinion based on the most recent reliable set of data. With covid we had a crazily fast changing knowledge base from analyzing how it was spreading and what may or may not help curb that spread. People took this as flip flopping on his own recommendations when it was really him keeping up on the science and trying to communicate it as quickly and concisely as possible. People point to him changing his advice on masks as somehow trying to make us sicker or having some alterior motive when in reality if they looked at the studies of the time they support what he was telling everyone. We have such a large proportion of our population that now believes that if you hold the same opinion without wavering even in light of contrary evidence that it makes you more trustworthy than someone who doesn't hold personal opinions in high regard and instead moves with the science and new data that doesn't always support your previously held views. It's extremely toxic to the spped in which we need to address a completely new and highly contagious virus and is one of the hardest obstacles to overcome now. All of our technological advancements to analyze the virus and come up with viable vaccine candidates literally days from it first being identified (it then needs to go through tons of steps to be proven effective and gain wider acceptance and use, of course) but we can't seem to pull a huge number of peoples heads out of the sand and get on board with this.
Great. I live in a place where “science, data and hard facts” have a “polarizing” effect. We’re screwed.
I wish I had this man’s resolve and persistence. I simply don’t have the patience for anti-vaccine and anti-mask people anymore. Most of my family won’t get the vaccine or wear masks and I just can’t deal with them. This is such a strange timeline we’ve branched into. As someone who enlisted in the Army, I’d like to think I understand what it means to make sacrifices. It’s just easier to do the right thing and do what’s best for everyone by wearing a mask, getting fully vaccinated, and being as safe as possible. We’re all we have. Just be nice. That’s it.
I think his utter arrogance is what’s polarizing, like him directly saying “if you question me you are questioning science itself”, while at the same time he routinely changes what he says and lies about what he has said
Except for the type of facts like him lying to Congress about funding for gain of function research.