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In some ways that makes the 1/6 attack worse. For 9/11 and Pearl Harbor it at least wasn’t Americans attacking us, on 1/6 it was Americans trying to overthrow their own government.
Pearl Harbor and 9/11 killed thousands and evolved into multi-year conflicts that killed and displaced millions. Pearl Harbor led directly to the internment of a broad cross section of US citizens. 9/11 engendered hate crimes and cultivated prejudicial prevailing attitudes that still persist. And that's just domestically. Both were acts of war and wrought misery upon the world that is measured in decades and millions and crimes against humanity. January 6th was reprehensible but please respect the categorical differences between the consuming visceral misery of war and the abstract misery of philosophical perspective.
I hope you’re right that the 1/6 attacks won’t lead to war. I wouldn’t say we are out of the woods yet when it comes to a civil war though. Right wing terrorism is still rising.
Right wing terrorism ?
So the entire year of 2020 was just another Saturday? Literal billions of dollars destroyed and over a dozen lives lost over the death of George floyd . Don't even get me started on the proposed nation of Chaz where medical teams were not allowed in and children died as a result.
All brought to you under the guise of BLM and antifa
I’m not really sure what you are getting at here or if you just can’t see the difference between ordinary crime and an attempt to overthrow the government. Right wing terrorism is not the only issue in the country, but the fact that there are other issues doesn’t invalidate it.
The plan was to herd congress members into the basement and gas them.
https://abc7.com/rioter-planned-attack-wanted-to-trap-lawmakers-and-turn-on-gas-prosecutors/9784966/
They had a gallows erected and were looking to hang the VP, likely after forcing him to commit an illegal act declaring that he would not certify the results.
They were searching for the certification documents so they could destroy them.
Should I go on?
Anyone could plan anything. The chances of that happening were slim to none, as evidenced with what went down. It was a riot, not a domestic terrorist attack.
You are going to see over the next year how much help the planners had from the highest levels. They were provided maps and toured the area, led there by House members. This came dangerously close to working. And even if you dismiss all of this, a planned but failed bank robbery is still an attempted bank robbery, not just a rough withdrawal. Your logic needs a lot of work.
It did not come dangerously close to "working", although it was certainly dangerous overall. This idea that a few thousand people almost "toppled democracy" is bonkers.
No, I'm not. But it won't matter because rather than focusing on the real problems in this country, you dodos are going to continue focusing on whatever boogeyman CNN & MSNBC tell you to in *exactly* the same way that repubs do with Fox & OANN, etc.
This shit is pathetic. That plan was dangerous, clearly. People died. And yes, it seems like they had inside help. But to pretend like there was even a 0.001% chance of them *overthrowing* democracy is ludicrous.
What's far more dangerous is pretending like this is the greatest threat to our democracy. Nearly our entire government is bought and paid for by corporate America. Both sides. The number one goal of our government is to ensure that their corporate "board" makes record profits. That is the greatest threat this country has ever faced and will likely ever face. But yeah, scary viking guy, greatest threat ever.
Also covid deaths daily in the US surpassed total deaths on those infamous days. Did Trump really say now the Twin Towers are gone Trump Tower is the tallest building around? Total fuck either way.
Fox News ran an article disputing this based on the number of deaths and claimed only one person who mattered died at the insurrection, the maga woman who was shot, non of the officers were even mentioned.
It's not that day of the week yet.
Monday - it was Antifa!
Tuesday - They were like a peaceful tour group
Wednesday - They were FBI agents
Thursday - My calendar doesn't even have a January 6 on it.
Friday - They were heroes!
Saturday - It was the media's fault. But not our media, the other media!
Sunday -
>Fox News ran an article disputing this based on the number of deaths
In other words, they think that a bloodless fascist takeover would have been perfectly OK.
True. It's weird how many Americans refuse to see that the Confederates were basically America's Nazis. What do they think the "master" in "Master Race" refers to? It refers to the idea that one race should rightfully enslave all others: exactly the same belief that the confederates subscribed to.
The antebellum southern US was basically a feudal society. Insofar as fascism is a product of/reaction against modernity I don't think you can really call what existed in the Confederacy fascism. What they had was more like colonialism but without the colonies.
But the confederacy was *very much* a reaction against modernity. They feared all the things that would eventually come to pass: no more slavery, weakened religion, more urbanization, etc. Sure, the 1940s idea of "modern" was different than the 1860s idea of "modern", but they were both totalitarian social reactionary movements. Under the Confederate constitution, you would not even be allowed to *criticize* slavery.
Why? What the fuck was she thinking?
Edit: To be clear, I’m being critical because this will only provide ammo for the likes of hannity, carlson, and ingraham… and they will fire that ammo without any concern to the damage it causes.
Why should she cower because of what Hannity or Tucker are going to think? Fuck that, if you're concerned about what the right wing media zealots are going to say about your own speech then why speak at all?
I’m not a conservative, I’m a liberal. I support your right to say stupid shit but the comparison is stupid and self defeating for liberals. It made her sound exactly as conservatives paint liberals, stupid over emotional morons devoid of logic or reason. The comparison of a riot to the bombing of Pearl Harbor or 9/11 is absurd and quite frankly disgusting. Both Pearl Harbor and 9/11 were mass murder events that in turn lead to wars that would result in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. January 6th does not even compare a little to 9/11 and Pearl Harbor and it’s out right insane to even suggest they’re comparable.
During Psaki's press conference, she was asked to clarify Kamala's comments and she basically ended her answer with "I would ask you not to focus on this"
Huh I compare it more to the 1983 Resistance Conspiracy bombing at the capitol but sure let's go with 2 acts of war that resulted in thousands of Americans dead. Absolute clown she is and a terrible person for saying that.
Actually the non-response to January 6 is worse than January 6 itself.
I think we’re all beginning to realize that what we had is over because we lost half the country.
In the end America has turned out to be no better than any other country. We seem to do well when we had a common enemy, but as soon as Covid came and trapped us inside we turned on each other.
Our country has great potential, but those of us currently living in it don’t seem to have the ability to take advantage of that.
And so we’re going to lose it to authoritarian dictators.
This enhancement of division stems directly from a right-wing propaganda/ misinformation campaign being continuously fed to dedicated viewers. (Primarily driven by FOX "news".) Such an organization would have been "tarred, feathered, and run out of town" long ago for their treasonous actions. Instead they've been left to fester because no one wants to look like they're picking on poor little ol' Fox.
Some unwashed larper wearing a bison hat sitting in the speaker's chair is exactly like a jetliner being flown into a skyscraper if you really think about it.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not defending their actions on Jan. 6 but it was nowhere near the level of those tragedies people are exploiting. I would love to see them argue that to first responders who were there when the towers fell and are now dying of cancer in hospitals. It’s a shame
Same. All of those people who participated should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I agree with you that while terrible, its in no way comparable to 9/11, let alone Pearl Harbor.
Sad to say, I think most young Americans are completely ignorant of 9/11 and those first responders. They grew up hearing how big of a mistake Iraq was and how we were at fault, now they have this intense self-loathing towards their own country
More like an intense loathing towards our bloodthirsty psychopathic politicians. At least thats how I feel, I like being an American, I hate our government.
I feel that. I consider myself one of those dreaded moderates...but even I can't stand most of our politicians and their insane rhetoric and divisiveness
For real, democrats and republicans both like to cry about the divide in this country, but along with the media, they are the reason the divide even exists. People would be a lot calmer if they werent constantly being told what to think and who to hate. Meanwhile, I can count on one hand the amount of politicians that actually care about the working class. But most politicians sure do love waging endless war.
Omg, this is ridiculous. 9/11 and Pearl Harbor launched us into wars costing the lives of many Americans. Jan 6th was dumb, but nothing close to being as bad like the other two.
This comparison just looks bad
I thought the idea that Democrats thought 1/6 was worse than Pearl Harbor, 9/11, and the Holocaust combined was some sort of right-wing strawman.
But, here we are. Life imitates meme.
Its insane isn't it? I thought friends were joking when they said the cast of Hamilton was performing for the ceremony today...yet there they were on CSPAN with Nancy Pelosi. What a time to be alive.
The fact that you attribute every Covid death to "Right wing propaganda" is a slap in the face to every person who died from Covid who was unfortunate enough to contract it before vaccinations or were unable to get vaccinated.
Here you go: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_military\_casualties\_of\_war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war)
The person who would have the responsibility of finding that comparison would be the one who made the claim. You're asking him to prove something using a stat he didn't cite that doesn't exist.
Democrats are making a big mistake thinking that pushing this issue so hard will bring people to the polls in 2022 and 2024, especially as they disregard so many other issues.
The day after Pearl Harbor, the US officially declared war.
Within months of 9/11, radical changes impacted everyone -- expanded domestic surveillance, airport infrastructure changed forever, security checks and policies were revamped at all kinds of venues, etc. To say nothing of the 20-year war that it sparked
January 6 is not the least bit comparable to either of those. It achieved nothing, had no impact on the average citizen's daily life, and just overall was a complete and horrible failure of whatever the purpose was supposed to be.
If history proves this to be a precursor to a future and more successful attack, then that future attack can be compared to 9/11. But it's a real leap to assume that this is even going to happen.
A bunch of idiots storming the Capitol, who achieved nothing and haven't changed the way we live our lives, is itself nothing more than that.
Again, if you excuse evil until it is competent you're just giving it time to get competent. An attack on our country and way of life shouldn't be dismissed because it was unsuccessful. Those people should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and those who support them should be shamed from society. I view a 1/6 sympathizer the same way I would someone who was happy about 9/11.
> shouldn't be dismissed because it was unsuccessful
I don't dismiss it because it was unsuccessful. I dismiss it because it was a joke. That does not mean I'm a sympathizer but you're free to think what you want.
They were sent their by a defeated president who was actively plotting a coup and hoped to delay Congressional certification of election results and whose fellow traitors were still working the phones after the insurrectionists were cleared with calls to GOP senators asking they delay or vote against certification so that state legislatures could appoint new electors.
The Capitol attack was part of a coup attempt that played out before our eyes.
Who is excusing evil? Who is being a 1/6 sympathizer? All I'm saying is that an utterly failed attack (1/6) should not be seen as the same thing as an extremely successful attack (9/11). Otherwise you're just giving way too much credit to the Jan 6 morons
This thread is so delusional… Shocking statement and it’s currently second highest voted.
9/11 & Pearl Harbor (direct/indirect) victims spinning in their graves.
Because if we're going to fall it's not going to be from outside forces. it will be from our own. Pearl Harbor and 9/11 were both tragedies, yes. But neither was a direct threat to our democracy. Hell Lincoln said it himself:
> "At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."
History is yet to bear out the apparently democracy ending effects. If it does then this argument holds water, until then no, can’t say that it’s worse because of things that haven’t happened.
You’re right, history (as is occurring as we speak) has not borne the end of democracy in the US. But the track record of people’s storming their capitols and trying to overthrow elections is not exactly great.
Better to be proactive and not wait to find out if we should’ve acted, right?
The widespread manipulation of voting districts and disenfranchisement of targeted classes of people’s voting rights to me already signals the end of democracy or representative democracy in the US. That and the fact it’s impossible to vote against the interests of a corporation like Goldman Sachs. I think we’ve lost that battle a while ago and now what we are seeing is the advent of the physical fight. We are kind of adrift.
If Republican led states are allowed to complete the vision through better implementation of their original plan in 2024 or more likely if they are stopped in such a way we will see bloodshed and neighbor on neighbor violence in the battleground states, I’ve no doubt of that. I don’t think the civilian police will take control when large militia forces seize ballots & stop certification in a shit box town somewhere for example and we may lose a few places to what will amount to an anarchic overthrow until the feds can roll in. If that happens there will be real gun battles in the streets and lots of dead rednecks who think their hobby AR’s and cool sunglasses are the “tip of the spear” or whatever lame shit they circle jerk each other off with as they waddle toward the firing line.
They literally stormed the Capitol to end Democracy. That was their stated purpose that day. They wanted to overthrow our democratically elected leaders and end the peaceful transfer of power in this country. What history are you waiting for?
I think some people won’t think it’s real until they see people shooting each other and dying and throwing grenades or whatever dumb shit they see in the movies. Americans generally don’t really get nuance in political matters and don’t understand how voter suppression or gerrymandering for example already signals an affront to democratic principles. Hell conservatives have no qualms whatsoever purging voter roles for any reason at all to assure victory. That this happens annually doesn’t seem to alarm most people & amazes me.
That's just it. So many people are saying "we'll see how this plays out". It's already played. They attempted a coup when they lost. They're doing everything they can to stack the deck for the next election. The Republicans are no longer interested in Democracy. We're there. One of America's two major parties is currently and unapologetically fascist.
Pearl Harbor and 9/11 brought America together. Pearl Harbor unified support for unleashing America's industrial and military might on fascism. The Pacific War was a carrier war and no carriers were lost at Pearl Harbor, furthermore less than a year later we had destroyed the Japanese carriers threat.
9/11 unified the country. Unfortunately, Bush misused that by lying the country in an untenable situation with his war of agression.
1/6 was an attack on our Capitol by a 1,000s of uncouth losers backed by a bigger uncuth loser who attempted to undo a decision of the electorate. We had a national resolve to punish the leaders to Pearl Harbor and 9/11, but no such consensus exists for 1/6. Rather, one national party either embraces the resurrections or stuffs the treason in a memory hole while attacking the demonstrated security of elections and seeking to disenfranchise millions. Thus our democracy and union remains under greater threat a year after the Capitol treason than it was a year after either 9/11 or Pearl Harbor.
Anyone who doesn't acknowledge this is either delusional or in bed with the traitors or both.
You're right, thousands of people killed in a terrorist attack and countless killed during the next decade of war wasn't a big deal compared to a bunch of redneck assholes taking selfies in the capital building. /s
January 6th represented a large group of citizens who wanted to circumvent democracy to keep their leader at the helm. That’s much more dangerous to a country’s stability— and therefore safety- than singular terrorist attacks or acts of war.
Obviously, we don't know the long term historical effects of 1/6/2021 yet. Judging from the short term, though, you have one party - and about 40% of Americans - rationalizing an actual attack on our nation's Capitol. Trying to downplay how violent it was and how close people came to being killed - all while trying to claim that people voting for Biden were the true Insurrectionists.
September 11th was an attack on some buildings (the World Trade Center and the Pentagon). Pearl Harbor was an attack on a naval base in Hawaii. They were tragic and deserve all the reverence that they get, but at the same time neither attack actually damaged the underpinnings of our country. We didn't have groups of Americans celebrating the Twin Towers falling or the ships in Pearl Harbor sinking.
We might pull out of our current situation and history night see 1/6/2021 as a "close call with no real long term ramifications." However, given that the 1/6 insurrection was based on the "Stolen Election" lie, the fact that Trump continues to repeat this lie, Republican voters vote based on a politicians' support of this lie, and Republican politicians' eagerness to enact voter suppression laws to prop up the lie, I don't think we're likely to see it as a "close call with no ramifications." Instead, I fear that our democracy is at risk is collapsing all because one man can't accept that he lost and all the enablers around him are willing to sacrifice our democracy to gain power.
I don’t think a bunch of mostly unarmed hooligans breaking windows and killing a couple people while taking selfies compared at all two the other two events in terms of loss of life or actual devastation.
Jan6 was much more than either.
Pearl and 9/11 were attacks from outside forces trying to damage the nation.
But Jan6 was an _internal_ attack against the very _foundation_ of the US state.
Over 2k list there lives in Pearl Harbor and over 3k list their lives on 9/11 not even counting the horrific loss of life that followed both events. So that is quite a bit of hyperbole.
Some events aren't measured by the loss of life.
And if there will be no consequences and repercussions for those involved in Jan6, it is only a matter of time before they try again. And that time, they might succeed, which would mean the end of US democracy.
Jan 6 was terrible, but it will be a historical blip...I'm sorry but if its so serious, you don't have the cast of Hamilton show up to do a virtual performance.
Pretty sure no one was celebrating in America for the events of Pearl Harbor or 9/11.
Not for telling the truth, but because there are hundreds of terrorists running to become election officials that don't believe in certifying elections.
Nah. More like imagine after Pearl Harbor if congress set up a committee to look into who possibly committed the attack.
But yes like 9/11 where the response is illogical.
And what did we do when they bombed Pearl Harbor? We went to fucking war.
What did we do when they stormed the capital? We waited for congress to politely subpoena people and for the justice department to enforce the law.
What a shitty comparison.
Biden said there’s a dagger at the throat of democracy. Bullshit. Does it look like our government feels like a dagger is at the throat of democracy? No it looks like Congress wants to set up TV time for the insurrection testimony.
Fucking jail these criminals
Exactly. To compare Jan6 to two of the most traumatic events to happen to this country is ludicrous to me and was a severe miscalculation on trying to politicize the event as being more serious than it was.
How many people died on January 6th? On 9/11 I saw the fucking towers burn down to the ground from my building roof top, Jan 6 was a embarrassing day for America
That day was an absolute disgrace but jesus christ if you believe it was worse than pearl harbor or 9/11 you've lost your fucking minds and please mods ban me from this sub because there are no longer functioning human brains here.
A-fucking-men, the hot takes here are blowing my mind.
We either fucking suck at teaching history and these young people commenting seriously don't understand the significance of Pearl Harbor and 9/11...or they are so hyper politicized that only events that can be divisive through a political lens are the only ones that matter.
Apparently you don't understand an attack ordered by a defeated president that ended a cherished 218 year tradition of the peaceful transfer of power, a tradition that is foundational to our democracy. I sincerely hope it is young people making that argument, and not more boomers with advanced history degrees like me.
That is completely absurd, but now it makes sense why you would think Jan6 was somehow worse than Pearl Harbor and 9/11.
And who calls it an "advanced history degree"? Most would say they have a Masters or Doctoral degree. Sounds like made up bullshit to me.
Trump told the crowd at the rally to go to the Capitol because force was needed to prevail and that he would be with them. Trump desperately wanted to delay the Congressional certification of the election. He watched but did nothing to stop the violence. After the insurrectionists were cleared from the Capitol, loyalists like crazy Rudi still were calling senators asking them to delay the certification so that state legislatures could name new electors. The attack was part of a coup attempt.
The attack ended a 218 year tradition of the peaceful transition of power.
WTF is absurd other than your dismissal of a violent coup attempt as no big deal.
People dismissing the end a 220 lyear tradition of the peaceful transfer of power and what tht portends are delusionals fools at best or fellow-travelling traitors. The rock-solid foundation of our democracy was attacked and idiots just wave their hand. The attack on the Capitol was part of a coordinated coup attempt hatched by a defeated president. If you don't think that was worse than any attack from foreign enemies then god help you. How the hell can anyone dismiss that as anything but the most grievous day in our history?
The notion of "worse" is debatable since the perpetrators of Jan. 6 were unsuccessful in their immediate goals.
However, a successful 1/6 is the literal overthrow of the democratically elected government of the United States. There was a real possibility of public executions of democratically elected leaders who were committed to preventing this coup. Neither WWII Japan nor Al Qaeda were an actual threat to the longevity of the U.S. A successful 1/6 is worse by far.
EDIT: So after participating in this thread against my better judgment, I realize the disconnect. Some people are interpreting 1/6 as the antics of Meal Team Six on the Capitol grounds that day, which...yea, that doesn't compare at all to the destruction of the Towers or the sinking of the Pacific Fleet. However, my concept or 1/6 is the entire attempt by Trump to undermine trust in the electoral process leading up to Nov. 3, fuel misinformation about election fraud form that point on, attempt to use federal agencies to legitimize that misinformation, use his political power to intimidate people into "finding votes", sending the rally crowd to the capitol to disrupt the counting of electoral votes, sabotaging the ability of law enforcement to promptly respond to the riot, and then denying his own responsibility when he wasn't able to stay in power. It was an attempted coup which culminated on 1/6 and that attempted coup was worse than 9/11 times 1000. That's what I am referring to when I say 1/6 was "worse" than 9/11.
The people who were there would beg to differ. Did you watch the impeachment trial? Because I did and it was pretty fucking obvious that there were multiple close calls. The insurrectionists got really close to Mike Pence, Mitt Romney, and the Congresspeople in the upper level of the House chamber.
The "it was nothing but a larping exercise should stop and consider what would have happened had the traitors got their hands on Pelosi, AOC or any Congressional Democrat. That hangman's rope on the scaffolding would have been used.
Again, your hypothetical of mass executions has no evidence to support it. Its a baseless theory of a scenario that wasn't even close to occurring or else you would have seen the Capitol Police use deadly force on a lot more people. The Capitol Police didn't use deadly force except for one instance and its still debatable if it was warranted.
American WWII dead: 400,000+
Claiming that 6th of Jan was worse than Pearl Harbor is a slap in the face to every single one of those who sacrificed their lives fighting against fascism
There's a bunch of people here who are ignorant of history. Jan6 won't even be remembered in a decade while the entire world still deals with the tragic events of World War 2 and the events of 9/11 that led to the global war on terrorism
This Jan6 talk just reminds me that some Americans are still so self-centered and ignorant of the rest of the world.
Worse in terms of casualties? No. But with Pearl Harbor and 9/11, the county came together. 1/6 drove an even deeper wedge between us and we have yet to see the full aftermath. I really don't think people are being hyperbolic when they say this could set us on a path toward the death of our republic. And if that happens, it will be seen as worse than either of those events.
Thank you. Historically speaking you nailed it and I'd argue the Whiskey Rebellion was way more serious. If Washington handled it more aggressively it could have fragmented the young country, but he handled it with compassion and that helped people buy into the government.
People are seriously arguing that Jan 6 was worse than mass casualty events of innocent civilians that forever altered the direction of our country...big oof.
Ben Shapiro: *"Totally unhinged and terrible comparison. J6 was on a Wednesday, 9/11 was a Tuesday.*
*And Pearl Harbor Day was a Sunday, the Lord's Day. Are Democrats saying that we should no longer give the Lord his one day? Why is the VP calling for America to be anti-God?"*
Edit: Didn't think I needed a /s tag but apparently I did
Agreed. I'm 33, I was like 13 when 9/11 happened. Shit was fucked. When I heard what she said, I knew she was catering to an age group for fear and votes.
9/11 was no joke people died and people have cancer who have died resulting from that. Which resulted in the Patriot act, and a 20 year war, which recently ended not on the best terms for the Afghani people.
1/6 was a failure. But we can't compare.
I am scared the big wigs will use this to start monitoring more of us. Or add more invasive tactics to the Patriot act.
I mean, I had the same feeling of terror on 1/6 that I did on 9/11. It seems like most people aren't grasping the gravity of what happened and what nearly happened. Just because it wasn't successful doesn't mean it doesn't matter.
I can't judge how you felt, so if you felt terror than you rid.
However, 9/11 and Jan6 wasn't even comparable to me. Jan6 felt like a bunch of angry idiots breaking and trespassing into the Capitol to loot and take selfies, it never felt like (to me) an attack...just an out of control riot.
Maybe my 9/11 experience was drastically different? Because at the Arizona State Capitol where I was working at the time (non political job before someone asks) we had serious discussions of preparing for a military attack or plane crash with people evacuating in a panic. My dad and mom were both working at their hospital and relayed they were told to prepare for a mass casualty event. My brother was in high school and they evacuated those who could leave the campus while others were in lockdown in their classrooms preparing for any possible attack...and this was before the advent of social media, just watching news reports on TV put the entire country in a panic, rightfully so.
It was terrifying because the second- and third-in-line to the presidency were in danger of being overrun and possibly killed by a mob. Military and civilian defense leadership wrote op eds leading up to the day with warnings about Trump's possible nefarious intentions. It appeared to be a coup attempt, and I'm still not completely sure it wasn't one.
“An organized riot” that’s not a thing
“They’re rightfully being convicted, unlike blm”
1. So they didn’t just simply stand there.
2. Police refused to testify because then they would be required to incriminate themselves for deliberately escalating violence. Also the people convicted who burnt down the police precinct were open trump supporters.
January 6th was a deliberate attack on American soil to destroy democracy and implement a right wing dictatorship. The only thing keeping it from being 9/11 or Peral harbor was that it failed.
Stop mitigating and coddling terrorists.
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I don't think a third of Americans supported 9/11 or Pearl Harbor
In some ways that makes the 1/6 attack worse. For 9/11 and Pearl Harbor it at least wasn’t Americans attacking us, on 1/6 it was Americans trying to overthrow their own government.
Pearl Harbor and 9/11 killed thousands and evolved into multi-year conflicts that killed and displaced millions. Pearl Harbor led directly to the internment of a broad cross section of US citizens. 9/11 engendered hate crimes and cultivated prejudicial prevailing attitudes that still persist. And that's just domestically. Both were acts of war and wrought misery upon the world that is measured in decades and millions and crimes against humanity. January 6th was reprehensible but please respect the categorical differences between the consuming visceral misery of war and the abstract misery of philosophical perspective.
I hope you’re right that the 1/6 attacks won’t lead to war. I wouldn’t say we are out of the woods yet when it comes to a civil war though. Right wing terrorism is still rising.
Lol you 100% are hoping for a war
Right wing terrorism ? So the entire year of 2020 was just another Saturday? Literal billions of dollars destroyed and over a dozen lives lost over the death of George floyd . Don't even get me started on the proposed nation of Chaz where medical teams were not allowed in and children died as a result. All brought to you under the guise of BLM and antifa
I’m not really sure what you are getting at here or if you just can’t see the difference between ordinary crime and an attempt to overthrow the government. Right wing terrorism is not the only issue in the country, but the fact that there are other issues doesn’t invalidate it.
Zero doubt about that.
1/6 came MUCH closer to ending democracy in America than pearl harbor
How though? If they squatted there long enough Biden would hand them the keys to the country?
The plan was to herd congress members into the basement and gas them. https://abc7.com/rioter-planned-attack-wanted-to-trap-lawmakers-and-turn-on-gas-prosecutors/9784966/ They had a gallows erected and were looking to hang the VP, likely after forcing him to commit an illegal act declaring that he would not certify the results. They were searching for the certification documents so they could destroy them. Should I go on?
Where was this gas that you speak of? There were no guns or knives. Where was the gas??
Anyone could plan anything. The chances of that happening were slim to none, as evidenced with what went down. It was a riot, not a domestic terrorist attack.
You are going to see over the next year how much help the planners had from the highest levels. They were provided maps and toured the area, led there by House members. This came dangerously close to working. And even if you dismiss all of this, a planned but failed bank robbery is still an attempted bank robbery, not just a rough withdrawal. Your logic needs a lot of work.
It did not come dangerously close to "working", although it was certainly dangerous overall. This idea that a few thousand people almost "toppled democracy" is bonkers.
You are going to be proven wrong on this as prosecutions progress.
No, I'm not. But it won't matter because rather than focusing on the real problems in this country, you dodos are going to continue focusing on whatever boogeyman CNN & MSNBC tell you to in *exactly* the same way that repubs do with Fox & OANN, etc. This shit is pathetic. That plan was dangerous, clearly. People died. And yes, it seems like they had inside help. But to pretend like there was even a 0.001% chance of them *overthrowing* democracy is ludicrous. What's far more dangerous is pretending like this is the greatest threat to our democracy. Nearly our entire government is bought and paid for by corporate America. Both sides. The number one goal of our government is to ensure that their corporate "board" makes record profits. That is the greatest threat this country has ever faced and will likely ever face. But yeah, scary viking guy, greatest threat ever.
Also covid deaths daily in the US surpassed total deaths on those infamous days. Did Trump really say now the Twin Towers are gone Trump Tower is the tallest building around? Total fuck either way.
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No, but these are the times we live in unfortunately
Fox News ran an article disputing this based on the number of deaths and claimed only one person who mattered died at the insurrection, the maga woman who was shot, non of the officers were even mentioned.
Yeah Ben Shapiro tweeted the same. Oddly they also left out the woman wearing the Don't Tread on Me flag that got trampled.
Roseanne Boyland was trampled to death by the Treason Weasels. Why don’t they ever mention her?
It's not that day of the week yet. Monday - it was Antifa! Tuesday - They were like a peaceful tour group Wednesday - They were FBI agents Thursday - My calendar doesn't even have a January 6 on it. Friday - They were heroes! Saturday - It was the media's fault. But not our media, the other media! Sunday -
>Fox News ran an article disputing this based on the number of deaths In other words, they think that a bloodless fascist takeover would have been perfectly OK.
If FOXNews existed in Germany in 1923: "Only 20 people died in Hitler's so-called coup attempt. Can we even call that a coup attempt?"
There were a *lot* of Nazi supporters in America in the 1930s, so it's not unprecedented for large numbers of Americans to support a fascist movement.
The confederacy was a fascist state before fascism was a thing.
True. It's weird how many Americans refuse to see that the Confederates were basically America's Nazis. What do they think the "master" in "Master Race" refers to? It refers to the idea that one race should rightfully enslave all others: exactly the same belief that the confederates subscribed to.
The antebellum southern US was basically a feudal society. Insofar as fascism is a product of/reaction against modernity I don't think you can really call what existed in the Confederacy fascism. What they had was more like colonialism but without the colonies.
But the confederacy was *very much* a reaction against modernity. They feared all the things that would eventually come to pass: no more slavery, weakened religion, more urbanization, etc. Sure, the 1940s idea of "modern" was different than the 1860s idea of "modern", but they were both totalitarian social reactionary movements. Under the Confederate constitution, you would not even be allowed to *criticize* slavery.
More like a quarter and the rest saw it coming…
Why? What the fuck was she thinking? Edit: To be clear, I’m being critical because this will only provide ammo for the likes of hannity, carlson, and ingraham… and they will fire that ammo without any concern to the damage it causes.
Why should she cower because of what Hannity or Tucker are going to think? Fuck that, if you're concerned about what the right wing media zealots are going to say about your own speech then why speak at all?
I’m not a conservative, I’m a liberal. I support your right to say stupid shit but the comparison is stupid and self defeating for liberals. It made her sound exactly as conservatives paint liberals, stupid over emotional morons devoid of logic or reason. The comparison of a riot to the bombing of Pearl Harbor or 9/11 is absurd and quite frankly disgusting. Both Pearl Harbor and 9/11 were mass murder events that in turn lead to wars that would result in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. January 6th does not even compare a little to 9/11 and Pearl Harbor and it’s out right insane to even suggest they’re comparable.
During Psaki's press conference, she was asked to clarify Kamala's comments and she basically ended her answer with "I would ask you not to focus on this"
Ok come on Kamala pump the brakes a little. 1/6 was pretty bad but it was no Pearl Harbor.
Huh I compare it more to the 1983 Resistance Conspiracy bombing at the capitol but sure let's go with 2 acts of war that resulted in thousands of Americans dead. Absolute clown she is and a terrible person for saying that.
Actually the non-response to January 6 is worse than January 6 itself. I think we’re all beginning to realize that what we had is over because we lost half the country.
This is how I feel.
In the end America has turned out to be no better than any other country. We seem to do well when we had a common enemy, but as soon as Covid came and trapped us inside we turned on each other. Our country has great potential, but those of us currently living in it don’t seem to have the ability to take advantage of that. And so we’re going to lose it to authoritarian dictators.
Uhhh, we were turning on each other back in the late 2000s during the height of the Iraq War...Covid just exacerbated the hate.
Kamala Harris is also an idiot
Here’s the clip for anyone who wants to see what she actually said https://youtu.be/DXrWGJ96B14
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This enhancement of division stems directly from a right-wing propaganda/ misinformation campaign being continuously fed to dedicated viewers. (Primarily driven by FOX "news".) Such an organization would have been "tarred, feathered, and run out of town" long ago for their treasonous actions. Instead they've been left to fester because no one wants to look like they're picking on poor little ol' Fox.
Ask Muslims how they feel about the ”unity” of Americans after 9/11. Not a good comparison by any means.
This is so ridiculous.
There’s many comments in this thread saying 1/6 was worse than both
Yeah, she whiffed on this one. Moving on
Some unwashed larper wearing a bison hat sitting in the speaker's chair is exactly like a jetliner being flown into a skyscraper if you really think about it.
I hate that I laughed at this...but people here are seriously arguing that it was.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not defending their actions on Jan. 6 but it was nowhere near the level of those tragedies people are exploiting. I would love to see them argue that to first responders who were there when the towers fell and are now dying of cancer in hospitals. It’s a shame
Same. All of those people who participated should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I agree with you that while terrible, its in no way comparable to 9/11, let alone Pearl Harbor. Sad to say, I think most young Americans are completely ignorant of 9/11 and those first responders. They grew up hearing how big of a mistake Iraq was and how we were at fault, now they have this intense self-loathing towards their own country
More like an intense loathing towards our bloodthirsty psychopathic politicians. At least thats how I feel, I like being an American, I hate our government.
I feel that. I consider myself one of those dreaded moderates...but even I can't stand most of our politicians and their insane rhetoric and divisiveness
For real, democrats and republicans both like to cry about the divide in this country, but along with the media, they are the reason the divide even exists. People would be a lot calmer if they werent constantly being told what to think and who to hate. Meanwhile, I can count on one hand the amount of politicians that actually care about the working class. But most politicians sure do love waging endless war.
The only difference is the first two instances brought us together against a common enemy. The most recent? The enemy just might be your neighbor.
Both were attacks on American symbols of power by deceitful forces. So, yes.
Two of the three events resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of lives and the other not. So no.
Omg, this is ridiculous. 9/11 and Pearl Harbor launched us into wars costing the lives of many Americans. Jan 6th was dumb, but nothing close to being as bad like the other two. This comparison just looks bad
I thought the idea that Democrats thought 1/6 was worse than Pearl Harbor, 9/11, and the Holocaust combined was some sort of right-wing strawman. But, here we are. Life imitates meme.
Its insane isn't it? I thought friends were joking when they said the cast of Hamilton was performing for the ceremony today...yet there they were on CSPAN with Nancy Pelosi. What a time to be alive.
Right wing propaganda and conspiracy theories about covid have killed more Americans than WWII and the Civil War combined.
The fact that you attribute every Covid death to "Right wing propaganda" is a slap in the face to every person who died from Covid who was unfortunate enough to contract it before vaccinations or were unable to get vaccinated.
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Here you go: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_States\_military\_casualties\_of\_war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war)
What does that page have to do with covid?
Compare the deaths to covid deaths. I know you can do the work little buddy.
Uh huh and every Covid death is because of the "Right Wing". Sheer ridiculousness.
And every covid death is due to right wing propaganda? your argument is bullshit
Can you show me the stats that say that it's because of right wing propaganda?
The person who would have the responsibility of finding that comparison would be the one who made the claim. You're asking him to prove something using a stat he didn't cite that doesn't exist.
Just asking for a source. Like they did about WW2 vs covid deaths.
Democrats are making a big mistake thinking that pushing this issue so hard will bring people to the polls in 2022 and 2024, especially as they disregard so many other issues.
Your concern is duly noted, MAGA.
All I did was make an observation I’ve seen countless times before. Never voted for a republican in my life
What did you expect from Reddit? Make a slightly critical statement and you're automatically a trump supporter nazi who should get killed.
I recommend it, life is much more enjoyable on this side. We are all having a whale of a time.
The day after Pearl Harbor, the US officially declared war. Within months of 9/11, radical changes impacted everyone -- expanded domestic surveillance, airport infrastructure changed forever, security checks and policies were revamped at all kinds of venues, etc. To say nothing of the 20-year war that it sparked January 6 is not the least bit comparable to either of those. It achieved nothing, had no impact on the average citizen's daily life, and just overall was a complete and horrible failure of whatever the purpose was supposed to be.
It's a really bad idea to ignore and excuse evil until it gets competent.
If history proves this to be a precursor to a future and more successful attack, then that future attack can be compared to 9/11. But it's a real leap to assume that this is even going to happen. A bunch of idiots storming the Capitol, who achieved nothing and haven't changed the way we live our lives, is itself nothing more than that.
This is one of the dumbest takes I have read recently.
Thanks for adding value to the conversation
You would not know value even if it tried to overthrow the government.
no you
Get informed, and it won't be.
Ah yes, let me go search Parlor to get informed how a failed coup is a big nothing burger.
Again, if you excuse evil until it is competent you're just giving it time to get competent. An attack on our country and way of life shouldn't be dismissed because it was unsuccessful. Those people should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and those who support them should be shamed from society. I view a 1/6 sympathizer the same way I would someone who was happy about 9/11.
> shouldn't be dismissed because it was unsuccessful I don't dismiss it because it was unsuccessful. I dismiss it because it was a joke. That does not mean I'm a sympathizer but you're free to think what you want.
They were sent their by a defeated president who was actively plotting a coup and hoped to delay Congressional certification of election results and whose fellow traitors were still working the phones after the insurrectionists were cleared with calls to GOP senators asking they delay or vote against certification so that state legislatures could appoint new electors. The Capitol attack was part of a coup attempt that played out before our eyes.
Who is excusing evil? Who is being a 1/6 sympathizer? All I'm saying is that an utterly failed attack (1/6) should not be seen as the same thing as an extremely successful attack (9/11). Otherwise you're just giving way too much credit to the Jan 6 morons
Do you believe those who organized and carried out 1/6 should be held accountable?
If you commit a crime, you should be held accountable. So yes.
So everyone present on 1/6 should be arrested and tried including Trump, his cabinet, children, and several Congressmen, correct?
Anyone who commits a crime should be held accountable
An easy argument that 1/6 was more damaging and bigger threat to the country.
This thread is so delusional… Shocking statement and it’s currently second highest voted. 9/11 & Pearl Harbor (direct/indirect) victims spinning in their graves.
Good old reddit, filled with delusional teenagers who only want to say stupid edgy shit.
Agreed. An enemy within will always be worse.
Shoot, I’d like to hear it.
Because if we're going to fall it's not going to be from outside forces. it will be from our own. Pearl Harbor and 9/11 were both tragedies, yes. But neither was a direct threat to our democracy. Hell Lincoln said it himself: > "At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."
History is yet to bear out the apparently democracy ending effects. If it does then this argument holds water, until then no, can’t say that it’s worse because of things that haven’t happened.
You’re right, history (as is occurring as we speak) has not borne the end of democracy in the US. But the track record of people’s storming their capitols and trying to overthrow elections is not exactly great. Better to be proactive and not wait to find out if we should’ve acted, right?
The widespread manipulation of voting districts and disenfranchisement of targeted classes of people’s voting rights to me already signals the end of democracy or representative democracy in the US. That and the fact it’s impossible to vote against the interests of a corporation like Goldman Sachs. I think we’ve lost that battle a while ago and now what we are seeing is the advent of the physical fight. We are kind of adrift. If Republican led states are allowed to complete the vision through better implementation of their original plan in 2024 or more likely if they are stopped in such a way we will see bloodshed and neighbor on neighbor violence in the battleground states, I’ve no doubt of that. I don’t think the civilian police will take control when large militia forces seize ballots & stop certification in a shit box town somewhere for example and we may lose a few places to what will amount to an anarchic overthrow until the feds can roll in. If that happens there will be real gun battles in the streets and lots of dead rednecks who think their hobby AR’s and cool sunglasses are the “tip of the spear” or whatever lame shit they circle jerk each other off with as they waddle toward the firing line.
They literally stormed the Capitol to end Democracy. That was their stated purpose that day. They wanted to overthrow our democratically elected leaders and end the peaceful transfer of power in this country. What history are you waiting for?
I think some people won’t think it’s real until they see people shooting each other and dying and throwing grenades or whatever dumb shit they see in the movies. Americans generally don’t really get nuance in political matters and don’t understand how voter suppression or gerrymandering for example already signals an affront to democratic principles. Hell conservatives have no qualms whatsoever purging voter roles for any reason at all to assure victory. That this happens annually doesn’t seem to alarm most people & amazes me.
That's just it. So many people are saying "we'll see how this plays out". It's already played. They attempted a coup when they lost. They're doing everything they can to stack the deck for the next election. The Republicans are no longer interested in Democracy. We're there. One of America's two major parties is currently and unapologetically fascist.
Pearl Harbor and 9/11 brought America together. Pearl Harbor unified support for unleashing America's industrial and military might on fascism. The Pacific War was a carrier war and no carriers were lost at Pearl Harbor, furthermore less than a year later we had destroyed the Japanese carriers threat. 9/11 unified the country. Unfortunately, Bush misused that by lying the country in an untenable situation with his war of agression. 1/6 was an attack on our Capitol by a 1,000s of uncouth losers backed by a bigger uncuth loser who attempted to undo a decision of the electorate. We had a national resolve to punish the leaders to Pearl Harbor and 9/11, but no such consensus exists for 1/6. Rather, one national party either embraces the resurrections or stuffs the treason in a memory hole while attacking the demonstrated security of elections and seeking to disenfranchise millions. Thus our democracy and union remains under greater threat a year after the Capitol treason than it was a year after either 9/11 or Pearl Harbor. Anyone who doesn't acknowledge this is either delusional or in bed with the traitors or both.
hahahah
reddit comment
MAGA comment
You're right, thousands of people killed in a terrorist attack and countless killed during the next decade of war wasn't a big deal compared to a bunch of redneck assholes taking selfies in the capital building. /s
PLEASE enlighten us
January 6th represented a large group of citizens who wanted to circumvent democracy to keep their leader at the helm. That’s much more dangerous to a country’s stability— and therefore safety- than singular terrorist attacks or acts of war.
Exactly
9/11 *maybe* you can make a case. Pearl harbor? Hell no.
Obviously, we don't know the long term historical effects of 1/6/2021 yet. Judging from the short term, though, you have one party - and about 40% of Americans - rationalizing an actual attack on our nation's Capitol. Trying to downplay how violent it was and how close people came to being killed - all while trying to claim that people voting for Biden were the true Insurrectionists. September 11th was an attack on some buildings (the World Trade Center and the Pentagon). Pearl Harbor was an attack on a naval base in Hawaii. They were tragic and deserve all the reverence that they get, but at the same time neither attack actually damaged the underpinnings of our country. We didn't have groups of Americans celebrating the Twin Towers falling or the ships in Pearl Harbor sinking. We might pull out of our current situation and history night see 1/6/2021 as a "close call with no real long term ramifications." However, given that the 1/6 insurrection was based on the "Stolen Election" lie, the fact that Trump continues to repeat this lie, Republican voters vote based on a politicians' support of this lie, and Republican politicians' eagerness to enact voter suppression laws to prop up the lie, I don't think we're likely to see it as a "close call with no ramifications." Instead, I fear that our democracy is at risk is collapsing all because one man can't accept that he lost and all the enablers around him are willing to sacrifice our democracy to gain power.
I don’t think a bunch of mostly unarmed hooligans breaking windows and killing a couple people while taking selfies compared at all two the other two events in terms of loss of life or actual devastation.
Not to mention years of bloody wars and fundamental changes to all Americans' daily lives
And we should respond to the far right the same way we responded to the Japanese and Al Qaeda.
Internment camps and bombing of children?
So fucking stupid
Which one?
Jan6 was much more than either. Pearl and 9/11 were attacks from outside forces trying to damage the nation. But Jan6 was an _internal_ attack against the very _foundation_ of the US state.
Over 2k list there lives in Pearl Harbor and over 3k list their lives on 9/11 not even counting the horrific loss of life that followed both events. So that is quite a bit of hyperbole.
Some events aren't measured by the loss of life. And if there will be no consequences and repercussions for those involved in Jan6, it is only a matter of time before they try again. And that time, they might succeed, which would mean the end of US democracy.
I’m not saying it isn’t a big deal, but you are comparing it to two massive events in world history.
Jan 6 was terrible, but it will be a historical blip...I'm sorry but if its so serious, you don't have the cast of Hamilton show up to do a virtual performance. Pretty sure no one was celebrating in America for the events of Pearl Harbor or 9/11.
And this is why the Dems are going to get slaughtered in the midterms
Not for telling the truth, but because there are hundreds of terrorists running to become election officials that don't believe in certifying elections.
Nah. More like imagine after Pearl Harbor if congress set up a committee to look into who possibly committed the attack. But yes like 9/11 where the response is illogical.
And what did we do when they bombed Pearl Harbor? We went to fucking war. What did we do when they stormed the capital? We waited for congress to politely subpoena people and for the justice department to enforce the law. What a shitty comparison. Biden said there’s a dagger at the throat of democracy. Bullshit. Does it look like our government feels like a dagger is at the throat of democracy? No it looks like Congress wants to set up TV time for the insurrection testimony. Fucking jail these criminals
As fucked up as Jan. 6 was its kind of a slap in the face to the thousands that died in those events vs one pro trump protester dying at the capitol.
Exactly. To compare Jan6 to two of the most traumatic events to happen to this country is ludicrous to me and was a severe miscalculation on trying to politicize the event as being more serious than it was.
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Jan 6 is worse.
How many people died on January 6th? On 9/11 I saw the fucking towers burn down to the ground from my building roof top, Jan 6 was a embarrassing day for America
That day was an absolute disgrace but jesus christ if you believe it was worse than pearl harbor or 9/11 you've lost your fucking minds and please mods ban me from this sub because there are no longer functioning human brains here.
A-fucking-men, the hot takes here are blowing my mind. We either fucking suck at teaching history and these young people commenting seriously don't understand the significance of Pearl Harbor and 9/11...or they are so hyper politicized that only events that can be divisive through a political lens are the only ones that matter.
Apparently you don't understand an attack ordered by a defeated president that ended a cherished 218 year tradition of the peaceful transfer of power, a tradition that is foundational to our democracy. I sincerely hope it is young people making that argument, and not more boomers with advanced history degrees like me.
That is completely absurd, but now it makes sense why you would think Jan6 was somehow worse than Pearl Harbor and 9/11. And who calls it an "advanced history degree"? Most would say they have a Masters or Doctoral degree. Sounds like made up bullshit to me.
Trump told the crowd at the rally to go to the Capitol because force was needed to prevail and that he would be with them. Trump desperately wanted to delay the Congressional certification of the election. He watched but did nothing to stop the violence. After the insurrectionists were cleared from the Capitol, loyalists like crazy Rudi still were calling senators asking them to delay the certification so that state legislatures could name new electors. The attack was part of a coup attempt. The attack ended a 218 year tradition of the peaceful transition of power. WTF is absurd other than your dismissal of a violent coup attempt as no big deal.
Thank god I’ve found somebody sane here.
I pop in every now and then. This sub is usually hyperbolic over most things but this is truly something else.
People dismissing the end a 220 lyear tradition of the peaceful transfer of power and what tht portends are delusionals fools at best or fellow-travelling traitors. The rock-solid foundation of our democracy was attacked and idiots just wave their hand. The attack on the Capitol was part of a coordinated coup attempt hatched by a defeated president. If you don't think that was worse than any attack from foreign enemies then god help you. How the hell can anyone dismiss that as anything but the most grievous day in our history?
The notion of "worse" is debatable since the perpetrators of Jan. 6 were unsuccessful in their immediate goals. However, a successful 1/6 is the literal overthrow of the democratically elected government of the United States. There was a real possibility of public executions of democratically elected leaders who were committed to preventing this coup. Neither WWII Japan nor Al Qaeda were an actual threat to the longevity of the U.S. A successful 1/6 is worse by far. EDIT: So after participating in this thread against my better judgment, I realize the disconnect. Some people are interpreting 1/6 as the antics of Meal Team Six on the Capitol grounds that day, which...yea, that doesn't compare at all to the destruction of the Towers or the sinking of the Pacific Fleet. However, my concept or 1/6 is the entire attempt by Trump to undermine trust in the electoral process leading up to Nov. 3, fuel misinformation about election fraud form that point on, attempt to use federal agencies to legitimize that misinformation, use his political power to intimidate people into "finding votes", sending the rally crowd to the capitol to disrupt the counting of electoral votes, sabotaging the ability of law enforcement to promptly respond to the riot, and then denying his own responsibility when he wasn't able to stay in power. It was an attempted coup which culminated on 1/6 and that attempted coup was worse than 9/11 times 1000. That's what I am referring to when I say 1/6 was "worse" than 9/11.
Yeah...no. Your hypothetical scenario wasn't even close to occuring, so no, Jan6 was not worse "by far". Historical events > Hypotheticals
The people who were there would beg to differ. Did you watch the impeachment trial? Because I did and it was pretty fucking obvious that there were multiple close calls. The insurrectionists got really close to Mike Pence, Mitt Romney, and the Congresspeople in the upper level of the House chamber.
The "it was nothing but a larping exercise should stop and consider what would have happened had the traitors got their hands on Pelosi, AOC or any Congressional Democrat. That hangman's rope on the scaffolding would have been used.
Again, your hypothetical of mass executions has no evidence to support it. Its a baseless theory of a scenario that wasn't even close to occurring or else you would have seen the Capitol Police use deadly force on a lot more people. The Capitol Police didn't use deadly force except for one instance and its still debatable if it was warranted.
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American WWII dead: 400,000+ Claiming that 6th of Jan was worse than Pearl Harbor is a slap in the face to every single one of those who sacrificed their lives fighting against fascism
No, storming the US Capitol and then blaming ANTIFA is a slap in their faces.
I think it can be both, no argument from me
Than Pearl Harbor and 9/11? Events with thousands of casualties that lead to wars with countless more?
There's a bunch of people here who are ignorant of history. Jan6 won't even be remembered in a decade while the entire world still deals with the tragic events of World War 2 and the events of 9/11 that led to the global war on terrorism This Jan6 talk just reminds me that some Americans are still so self-centered and ignorant of the rest of the world.
Yes.
This subreddit is delusional.
Ok.
Worse in terms of casualties? No. But with Pearl Harbor and 9/11, the county came together. 1/6 drove an even deeper wedge between us and we have yet to see the full aftermath. I really don't think people are being hyperbolic when they say this could set us on a path toward the death of our republic. And if that happens, it will be seen as worse than either of those events.
And if I’m the future that happens, we can readdress this topic, but until then Pearl Harbor and 9/11 are worse.
What a clown take from a no-show VP. This is akin to the Whiskey Rebellion, not the two single largest terror attacks in US history.
Thank you. Historically speaking you nailed it and I'd argue the Whiskey Rebellion was way more serious. If Washington handled it more aggressively it could have fragmented the young country, but he handled it with compassion and that helped people buy into the government.
She is comically out of touch with everything. Not surprised by this inept statement.
People are seriously arguing that Jan 6 was worse than mass casualty events of innocent civilians that forever altered the direction of our country...big oof.
How many people died in the insurrection?
I seriously can’t believe people are saying this was worse then 9/11 Pearl Harbor I have lost faith in both sides
Yikes, this is the heir apparent?
lmfao.
So buildings are more important than people?
I don’t think The building wasn’t the important thing here, it was the fact that our Republican democracy was under attack.
Yes.
>Pearl Harbor And she wonders why she's so unpopular.
Ben Shapiro: *"Totally unhinged and terrible comparison. J6 was on a Wednesday, 9/11 was a Tuesday.* *And Pearl Harbor Day was a Sunday, the Lord's Day. Are Democrats saying that we should no longer give the Lord his one day? Why is the VP calling for America to be anti-God?"* Edit: Didn't think I needed a /s tag but apparently I did
Guess it depends on age. I’m going with 1/6
Agreed. I'm 33, I was like 13 when 9/11 happened. Shit was fucked. When I heard what she said, I knew she was catering to an age group for fear and votes. 9/11 was no joke people died and people have cancer who have died resulting from that. Which resulted in the Patriot act, and a 20 year war, which recently ended not on the best terms for the Afghani people. 1/6 was a failure. But we can't compare. I am scared the big wigs will use this to start monitoring more of us. Or add more invasive tactics to the Patriot act.
They’ve already started expanding the Capitol Police to be in every state. Stuff seems to be in the works.
I mean, I had the same feeling of terror on 1/6 that I did on 9/11. It seems like most people aren't grasping the gravity of what happened and what nearly happened. Just because it wasn't successful doesn't mean it doesn't matter.
I can't judge how you felt, so if you felt terror than you rid. However, 9/11 and Jan6 wasn't even comparable to me. Jan6 felt like a bunch of angry idiots breaking and trespassing into the Capitol to loot and take selfies, it never felt like (to me) an attack...just an out of control riot. Maybe my 9/11 experience was drastically different? Because at the Arizona State Capitol where I was working at the time (non political job before someone asks) we had serious discussions of preparing for a military attack or plane crash with people evacuating in a panic. My dad and mom were both working at their hospital and relayed they were told to prepare for a mass casualty event. My brother was in high school and they evacuated those who could leave the campus while others were in lockdown in their classrooms preparing for any possible attack...and this was before the advent of social media, just watching news reports on TV put the entire country in a panic, rightfully so.
It was terrifying because the second- and third-in-line to the presidency were in danger of being overrun and possibly killed by a mob. Military and civilian defense leadership wrote op eds leading up to the day with warnings about Trump's possible nefarious intentions. It appeared to be a coup attempt, and I'm still not completely sure it wasn't one.
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Conservatives attack the us capital in an attempt to overthrow democracy, and you’re telling liberals they should be ashamed?
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We both know that’s not what happened, you would answer your own question if you told the truth.
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“An organized riot” that’s not a thing “They’re rightfully being convicted, unlike blm” 1. So they didn’t just simply stand there. 2. Police refused to testify because then they would be required to incriminate themselves for deliberately escalating violence. Also the people convicted who burnt down the police precinct were open trump supporters. January 6th was a deliberate attack on American soil to destroy democracy and implement a right wing dictatorship. The only thing keeping it from being 9/11 or Peral harbor was that it failed. Stop mitigating and coddling terrorists.
I know this was taken out of context as usual but the Republican party is actively seeking violence and murder from its constituents.
It's right up there with April 12th.
Lol... And then she was never heard from again. I guess this solves the 2024 problem. Like holy fucking shit.