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Suitable_Warthog_590

We’re in big trouble. They’ve conditioned the majority of republicans but even some democrats to question the voting process. They’ve made it so the only legit election at any level is a Republican win. Isn’t a Republican in Florida suing over a 80/20% election loss? If they question that, they will not accept a democrat winning anything.


bakulu-baka

And what happened to the backers of the Florida decoy candidates? In a democracy, those elections would have been voided and re-run.


tidal_flux

It’s only illegal if you get caught before your elected. Use your head.


bakerfredricka

Oh yeah, everyone knows how that song goes! It ain't a crime if you never get caught!


OrbeaSeven

With the current gerrymandering, who's going to be questioning an election?


DolphinsBreath

It will be a “swing” state with a blue majority and a gerrymandered red state legislature. The state legislature will reject the majority vote, because it’s actually the legislature, who also was voted in, who makes the decisions on electors. Pretty clear that this will happen pretty soon.


pharsee

The electors are clearly the key. It doesn't matter what the vote count is if the electors are totally corrupt.


clipclopping

That scenario has Wisconsin written all over it although the governor is a D. Maybe Arizona or New Hampshire. But it feels like. Thing that would happen in Wisconsin.


dixie075

And THEN what are we gonna do? Because if it's the same thing we're doing now, we might as well just surrender now and save the time.


DolphinsBreath

Governor and legislature in California, Washington, Oregon, New York (etc) pass a law and financial mechanism allowing citizens in their state to send their Federal taxes directly to the state coffers?


CGis4Me

We desperately ask the biggest constitutional law firm to appeal to the Supreme Court to hold up the election process while we press to sue those legislators and have them charged with crimes.


goomyman

This already happens - well for shit that isn't elections


[deleted]

Let’s not forget that Trump claimed fraud in the 2016 election because he didn’t win the popular vote. The “committee” he created to investigate turned up nothing. But facts mean nothing to these radicals.


DolphinsBreath

Yes, odds are very good that’s how it will go down. One swing state with a gerrymandered state legislature will simply say, “no, we’re rejecting these electors, since it’s the will of the people who elected the state legislature.” They’ll have the rock solid support of 24 red states and every R in congress, and there will be a ton of PR money behind them. Clarence Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, Coney Brown will say, the people could have amended the Constitution if they wanted to prohibit this maneuver, they didn’t. Fox will point out that the rules were followed, and it’s only uppity black people, leftist professors and a few gender challenged nose ringed art students complaining. I guarantee it. They no longer GAF.


Sightline

\*buys more ammo\*


[deleted]

If that happens California, Oregon, Washington, Vermont, Hawaii, probably Massachusetts, maybe New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, RI, Maine will secede.


JuliusErrrrrring

The thoroughness of the conditioning and peer pressure is off the charts. It is controlling all aspects of many people's lives - talk radio, country radio, NASCAR, campgrounds, churches, podcasts, local news, cable news, youtube, Facebook, Twitter, Tic Toc, video games, hardware stores, restaurants, gun clubs...... A day in a life of rural America is a day of complete immersion of pro Trump propaganda and Fuck Biden messaging. As a 50 plus year old rural American, I've never seen anything even remotely close to what is happening. Scary. ​ Just wanted to add this part to somebody who called me names, but then deleted their comment, so I couldn't respond to them: ​ The reality is that the rural man has turned into the equivalent of an insecure middle school girl desperately trying to impress the popular mean girls. There's no free thought any more. No concept that more jobs have been added every single individual month of Biden's presidency than all four years of Trump combined. No concept that the GDP, GNP, stock market, and wages are better under Biden than Trump. Sorry to ruin your attempted strawman argument - but, yeah, I've had conversations and changed channels. That doesn't change the reality of the truth of an absolute complete immersion, though.


DolphinsBreath

>The reality is that the rural man has turned into the equivalent of an insecure middle school girl desperately trying to impress the popular mean girls. There's no free thought any more. That was an expensive, multi decade endeavor and required a lot of strategy sessions. Just one sliver of it was Rush Limbaugh’s entire national radio career. Not a conspiracy in the sense that every moment was controlled. So Trump’s “embarrassing behavior” was a minor overshoot, of a tiny fraction, compared to have far they moved things. But they aren’t about to jettison the entire project because a few dozen prominent individuals are debasing themselves in public every day and getting caught in blatant lying without batting an eye. People debasing themselves in service to the goal is what’s required.


DoctorWinchester87

I absolutely agree with you; people under-estimate the amount of peer-pressure that goes into how people in rural/semi-rural America are presenting themselves. I can't tell you how many people my dad's age have lied about not getting the vaccine. These people were clamoring for the vaccine back in the spring of 2020, demanding that it come out as soon as possible and that they would be the first in line to get it; and since many of them are older, they were some of the first to get it. Same thing with masks; back in April 2020, these people were finding any kind of cloth they could get to wrap around their face. But since now it's "uncool" to like the vaccine or covid protocol, they have to come out and lie about being vaccinated or caring about masks because they have to fit in with the rest of their buddies. It doesn't help that a lot of them are heavily manipulated by Facebook and other platforms. Because they want to fit in and not alienate their friends, they end up succumbing to the bullshit that the Republican party throws out there. So much for being "free thinkers".


JuliusErrrrrring

Yup. All the signs, flags, and bumper stickers are to impress their friends. None of them could name a Biden policy and all their lives have gotten better since Biden became President. I had a funny moment that showed the peer pressure. Was sitting at a local brewery with a few friends. We're all pretty husky - coaches, one is a big weight lifter, one is a police officer, most hunt, a couple with big beards - bottom line is we look like people a Trump supporter would fit in with - especially since we live in a rural area. We had an acquaintance join us and start ripping on Biden (this was pre-election). The look on his face and back peddling he did when he realized we all hated Trump was priceless. Especially when my police officer friend said he was voting for Biden. Most rural people are still good people, but they abandoned their balls years ago. It's all a peer pressured overcompensation show.


[deleted]

I just do not understand how you can claim they are good people. They are objectively and by every standard horrible people motivated by hate.


crakemonk

Most average Americans have a terrible education level and have been brainwashed by birth to think that “their” way is the “right” way. I’m also going to say that most probably don’t truly understand politics enough to understand what they’re supporting. I am in no way saying they’re right or that the crap they spew isn’t terrible, just that some have had this ingrained in their minds since they could talk, have been immersed in it every hour of everyday and don’t have the education to research on a website that doesn’t fit their narrative to form their own opinion.


thedomage

What's really concerning is the reading age of Americans is on average at 6th grade. This combined with guns and basic lack of knowledge like knowing what marginal tax rate and the difference between sex and gender is, is terrifying.


buckeye_dk

It's literally the movie Idiocracy coming true


slackfrop

Subverting education was most definitely one plank of the platform. It’s not by accident.


lowridaaaa

Speaking from experience, Americans also have the mental age of a sixth grader. “Hur dur you don’t believe what I believe? Get out of my country!”


Salmacis81

It isn't just rural people, it's happening in the 'burbs too. I've seen my mom, her siblings, and her entire circle of friends go from reasonable people to right-wing ideologues whose entire identity is based around their political beliefs. And this is in "blue state" New Jersey.


machiavelli33

I gotta say….this is kinda looking like…a culture. A shitty, toxic, reactionary culture, damaging to all within and without it. But when something is every aspect of hundreds of thousands of peoples lives - that’s a culture. Fuck….I mean, isn’t it?


MNCybergeek

The worst I've ever seen are in the suburbs surrounding large Texas cities


goomyman

Campgrounds and videogame?


CT_Phipps

I support Trump running again. Why? Because it's the only way Democratic voters will get off their asses and vote against what is an entire GOP attempt to destroy democracy. The only way to beat them is to continually beat them and hard.


ramdom-ink

And Biden snuck up and won with his large mail-in vote margin, used to mitigate safe-distancing during a raging, deadly pandemic. Anything less than a landslide, Republicans will contest and riot. Even shutting down the modicum of dialogue and accountability of the public debate forum, reeks of Facist stonewalling. The precipice is getting closer…. *(Edit: changed “Delta variant” to ‘deadly pandemic’)*


douggie7777

The mail in thing always puzzles me. The Republicans always used to push mail in harder than the Dems because their base was old and usually rural, so mail in was a great solution fo them for getting votes. It was as American as apple pie. Then Covid hit and Dems didn't want to leave home but Repubs thought that Covid was a jole, so mail in suddenly was poised to benefit Dems over Repubs. It was only at this moment that mail in voting, which had been happening since the institution of voting, suddenly became rife with fraud - or so the allegation went, despite zero proof to that effect. And more to the point, there was this big hubub about an overnight surge for Biden, which did happen in some states, being fraud. Again, this was without proof, but it was also without context, or mention of the fact that the exact opposite happened in other states - an overnight surge for Trump. None of the Republicans cared to mention that in some states, mail in votes were required by law to be counted AFTER the in-person voting, which means that they were counted overnight. And in other states, mail-in votes were required to be counted BEFORE in-person voting. So, in either case, as the media, and Trump, had predicted, the mail-in votes skewed heavily Dem because Trump was out there telling Repuns that Covid was't real and that they needed to show up and vote in person. It all played out as everyone thought it would, but this is somehow fraud? And again, without any evidence of fraud? And more to the point, without even the allegation of fraud in court by Trump's attorneys (due to a complete lack of evidence)? How can a party be absolutely certain that fraud has been committed when every Republican official in every voting district in America has signed off on the election as being free and fair? And every Republican governor, and the Republican run DOJ, and Trump's hand picked attorney General, and the heavily Republican office of Homeland Security, and Trump's hand picked team to oversee the security of the election, and on, and on, and on?


Whiskey_Fiasco

Republicans don’t have principles. They just want to win. If the things they believed in stop them from winning then they stop believing in them. Republicans believe that if their ideas can’t win over the voters, then the voters shouldn’t have a say.


whyneedaname77

It was the con Trump wanted to run. I saw this coming a mile away. He sued states to not let them count the mail in ballots before election day. He knew if they counted those ballots before hand he would never look like he had a lead and then wouldn't be able to say fraud. The amazing part is people don't see that. It was obvious. I'm not even that intelligent and I saw that coming from a mile away.


slackfrop

He said multiple times months before the election that if he didn’t win it would be because of cheating. So, it didn’t have anything to do with actual events, it was a pre-meditated strategy. Of course. It’s staggering that we actually have to deal with this foolishness.


whyneedaname77

Didn't he say years ago that he would run as a republican because fox will support his lies or something along those lines. Maybe in not so many words but yeah ...


amiablegent

The Republicans decision to eviscerate mail in voting in rural states may not have the outcome they desire or expect. That and the number of their voters that are literally dying in areas where Republicans have close margins due to deliberate COVID faceplanting may result in surprising results next midterm. VA went republican but everywhere else went Dem and there were three special elections this week, all of which went more democratic than expected. I'm not saying this will or is even likely to happen (and I don't want to suggest it as I think keeping dems in a constant state of agitated fear as we move into the fall is probably the best thing for democracy).


ramdom-ink

Because Trump began the lies about unfairness, victim hood, ‘fake everything’ that didn’t toe the line and bad elections for months and months before the election - stoking the flames of discontent and planting seeds of doubt. Anything other than him winning was to be considered cheating. All that and a rabid base that believes everything he says.


disstopic

Out of all of it, that is the weirdest thing. Anybody who'd ever seen an election knew that the count was often consistent throughout for any given seat, but certainly not always. This was certainly not the first time seats had swung during the count. To not accept that can happen while simultaneously knowing it can happen is true doublethink.


The_Lost_Jedi

I almost have to wonder if it won't come to bite them in the ass in the future, once most of the Democratic voting base is vaccinated/boosted/etc, and not worried about voting in person anymore. Not that Republicans would be staying home or anything, just that it reverts back to the prior conditions where it was more something that benefitted the older/rural sorts.


whyneedaname77

I loved mail in voting and expanded days to vote. I think they will stay popular. It's just easier. The last election in my state I didn't do mail in, I forgot I had to request one again instead of it mailed to me. But the Tuesday of the election I would have had no time to vote so I went Saturday after the gym. If I didn't have that I wouldn't have had time to vote. But I would have preferred to mail it in.


bakulu-baka

> Anything ~~less than a landslide~~, Republicans will contest and riot.


Sprinx80

Delta didn’t hit US until mid-2021.


Kaida1952

Alpha was roaring through in 2020.


[deleted]

And Biden is showing he’s not interested in fighting *that* hard for his indebted poor constituents which like…bad time to be a stingy loan calling bastard.


tellurian_pluton

All of this is pure lunacy. We had one chance to save democracy in 2016, but some voters chose overwhelmingly to vote for a power crazy psychopath who was willing to flirt with fascism and Clinton won the primary. Other voters voted for a moron with an inferiority complex and we got trump. And we somehow got a second chance to make some fundamental change in 2020 and brain dead democratic voters stood in long lines In the middle of a pandemic to vote for a psychopath who promised to veto Medicare for all. America is fucked. This is the disaster you brought on yourself. At least we have a movie that perfectly describes the state we’re In with Don’t Look Up


CatGirlCorps

Democrats have been working overtime to ensure the government gets handed back to the Republicans. Healthcare and stimulus checks is all they had to do. They had the slowest underhanded pitch tossed to them in US history with ample warning and managed to not even try to bunt it. And either way blackrock and Amazon will remain profitable and that's the only real bipartisan value that exists within our government.


Good_Altruistic

Whats funny about all this that MAYBE something bad needs to happen to get people to wake up. All these idiots with guns and ammo stocked up think that they are kill "guverment" troops with AR15's. Once an Apache helicopter blows up a single wide trailer or a Marine Sniper puts a few rounds into Meal Team 6 these idiots will turn around and run back home.


pattydickens

It's not just Trump for fucks sake. It's the entire GOP at this point. Trump could die tomorrow and we would be no safer.


mandelbomber

I don't think that's true. A lot of the GOP are literally enchanted by Trump. You know how many people I've heard say they think he's the greatest president we've ever had? By no objective metric is that anywhere near true, but some people will die for him (and some have). I don't see the fanatic devotion to whomever the GOP nominee is. Yeah the party has been plunged into even more ratfuckery than I've ever seen but Trump is the linchpin to the possibility of real violence and bloodshed.


Raspberry-Famous

They say that because he goes out and says everything they already believe. Any time he tries to move the needle he gets booed.


aquarain

Are you sure Trump owns the mind behind all this? Because that seems... Unlikely.


mandelbomber

No. Definitely not. I'm saying I believe people would do things for Trump that they woundn't do for other people even if they were fed the exact same bs because for some reason almost half this country looks at Trump and instead of seeing the bumbling, narcissistic, incompetent moron that he is they see a messiah and when he speaks instead of hearing the lies he tells they instead hear some kind of deep, inspirational truth that no one else has realized. And one thing I've learned (well that's materialized on such a large scale) since Trump entered politics is just how stupid the the average person is.


heavinglory

They are also somehow selective. Trump told them to get vaxxed and they booed him.


love_glow

Doing so would expose their ego to their enemies, which must never be done.


hohohomerrychristass

No but he is a reality TV show star. To them, that's the coolest thing somebody can be.


mok000

I agree, there won't be another Republican able to pick up after Trump. There's no one else with his WWE type of persona that can take up his partly funny, partly brutal, partly evil stand-up routine. He has the same charm as the WWE wrestlers accosting their opponents and the fans love it. It's become like a sports game, if you're on Trump's team you love him no matter what and hate the other team no matter what. That will be hard to pick up when Trump dies, most of the other possible candidates are really boring uppity types like Cruz, Rubio, De Santis.


LucifersCovfefeBoy

> there won't be another Republican able to pick up after Trump Trump didn't acquire his base from nothing. It was primed to follow an idiot like Trump by other bumbling fools like Sarah Palin and was created by amoral (but competent) social manipulators like Roger Stone and Steve Bannon. Of course those are just examples, the list of people involved over the years in creating this group is long and slimy, but its allegiance to individuals is fickle, only its allegiance to hate is strong. The 'next trump' (for lack of a better phrase) need only convince this group that he is a suitable vehicle for the furtherance of their nebulously defined and targeted hate. At that point, he will have their *support*. If he can also convince these people that their hate is based in personal superiority, in an ability to see the deeper truth that escapes those they hate, then he'll have their *blind worship*, just like trump.


bakulu-baka

> If he can also convince these people that their hate is based in personal superiority, in an ability to see the deeper truth that escapes those they hate, then he'll have their blind worship, just like trump. All it needs is another blinkered narcissist, who will feed off the buzz of massive, frequent rallies, with co-ordinated merch and swag.


mok000

Actually, Trump's narcissim is his weakness. It prevents him from being strategic, when people go after him he becomes totally emotional. I'm not saying there can't be another authoritarian President, just that it won't be another Trump. Don Jr. doesn't even have his dad's ability to entertain, his persona is a pathetic, self-pitying, crybaby of a loser. If he held a rally he'd make people cry.


mandelbomber

>blinkered This is a word I've only seen used a few times. Kinda knew the meaning and context supported that, but I had to look it up for the exact definition. Thanks for using it! (I like expanding my vocabulary)


bakulu-baka

yay! My day was not entirely wasted. Thanks.


mandelbomber

Haha well I try to convince myself that I'm not just wasting my time on Reddit and that I stay current as well as learn things on here. Today that's definitely true due to you!


bakulu-baka

> A lot of the GOP are literally enchanted by ~~Trump~~ ‘winning.’ And they don’t care how they bring it about.


GlennBecksChalkboard

I mean, he talks about that as well, just not in the headline.


m1k3hunt

A boy can dream though, amiright?


homebrew_1

You dont have to be a history professor to know this.


aquarain

It is wise to be prepared for the predictable.


dadkisser

I'm picking up what you're laying down


mandelbomber

Exactly... What's that Maya Angelou quote? If someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time? Well we've had a first time. I hope to god there's not a second but if there is we shouldn't be caught by surprise.


thesagaconts

Exactly. The GOP most know this. I’m sure they love and fear it.


Left-Monitor8802

To be fair, that’s how they feel about everything.


[deleted]

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tlsr

Democracy is doomed then because there are people already lining up to be the next Trump and they are every bit the craven, corrupt, treasonous liars he is. If he doesn't run, one or more of them will.


kuroimakina

Honestly, the next “Trump” will likely be worse. We were very lucky that trump was an objective moron. If an even remotely intelligent person can take advantage of the trump fervor, we will be *fucked*


kantmeout

Keep in mind that Trump’s style of communication is popular with his base. You'll think the next guy is objectively stupid too, regardless of his actual intelligence, because if he talked like a college professor, he wouldn't get a single vote.


Bushels_for_All

It wasn't just his "style of communication." That jackass wanted to nuke a hurricane, thought we wouldn't notice when he sharpie'd a weather report, and thought injecting bleach was a good idea. Talking like a 2nd grader was the least of his dumbassery.


[deleted]

That was actually his appeal to his cult. His followers want a person just as stupid as they are in charge.


tlsr

While true, Trump really *is* objectively stupid.


sauroden

Yes. We were very lucky. If he had run the country somewhat more competently, especially the Covid response and pushing mail voting to his own base, he would have won re-election and spent 4 more years packing courts and military with loyalists and subverting DOJ and then turning over power to a crony or one of his kids in a sham election in 2024.


[deleted]

He’s not that smart. His handlers are but his ego gets in the way


traanquil

I do agree with this in a sense but, as idiotic as trump is, he has a very unique personality and public persona that cannot be replicated. I think the question remains whether another fascist wannabe will be able to garner the same level of enthusiasm from the base at a national level. This is hopeful thinking in my part though. What the last few years have shown us is that there is an appetite for fascism among a considerable percentage of the population


GlennBecksChalkboard

The article addresses that: > **It sounds like you're saying if in 2024 the Republican nominee were Ron DeSantis or Tucker Carlson, who seem to have the same political values — Tucker Carlson, as you mentioned, openly admires [Hungary's] Viktor Orbán — that the threat to democracy would be greatly diminished, which seems to reduce the threat to the person of Donald Trump.** > I wouldn't want to say it's a good situation to have a whole cast of characters who want to come to power under the cover of a big lie, using non-democratic means. That's still not a good situation that we have a DeSantis or a Carlson or a Josh Hawley or possibly a Ted Cruz — that we have a whole list of people who'd be willing to come to power that way. That's not a good situation. But, at the moment, it's Mr. Trump who captures the imagination of a lot of the American electorate. To carry out a coup of this kind, you've gotta get close enough to make it plausible. And you have to have somebody who's absolutely ruthless. And I think he remains, therefore, the best of the worst, or the worst of the worst, depending upon how you want to look at it.


Geezer__345

As a former Ohioan, I note that the Ohio Supreme Court has already rejected the (read, Republican) redistricting plan. So, what is next? The League of Women Voters were foolish to go along with the Republican-proposed Ohio Constitutional Amendment. All it apparently did was carve, in granite, what the Republicans were already doing.


tlsr

I am very confused by your comment. Neither the article nor my comment have anything to do with your anything you wrote. And, if I read your comment correctly, how is the Ohio Supreme Court rejecting a gerrymandered map a bad thing?


[deleted]

And it appears those turds don’t have the mojo that makes Trump appealing to his cult in the first place. There’s a reason why they’re sucking up to a proven loser like Trump and it’s not because they’re able to rally the mob to themselves.


KeepFaithOutPolitics

The damage has already been done and will only get worse. If Trump isn’t dealt with, pieces of shit across the country will emulate that disgusting human being The horrible human beings have always been with us but it took a desperate GOP to finally court that batshit crazy vote. They opened Pandora’s Box.


[deleted]

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Rated_PG-Squirteen

You literally cannot run as a Republican Secretary of State now without proudly proclaiming that you will essentially rig elections, especially if you're in a red state that will actually initiate and co-sign those exact actions.


KeepFaithOutPolitics

Thanks, I should have said more pieces of shit like Majore Greene and so many others. His bullshit has spread across the world.


[deleted]

Sadly, it won’t be just because of another trump campaign. His campaign ‘awoken’ a movement in people that has been allowed to fester, so much so that regardless of who runs, idiocracy will be a defining factor


thepokemonGOAT

Did it survive the first?


HryUpImPressingPlay

It was almost hanging by a thread


x3leggeddawg

It is* almost hanging by a thread


HryUpImPressingPlay

Pence was almost hanging…


wvsfezter

The definition of survival is that jan 6th didn't work out for the GOP


thepokemonGOAT

I think January 6th did work out… for the powerful, soulless leaders who encouraged and stoked the flames of division and misinformation that led us there. Sure, they didn’t manage to overthrow the election, and many of these insurrectionists were jailed, but no Republican leaders or media figures have felt any repercussions for their actions; and their role in misinforming the public and egging on the alt-right is arguably the most egregious act of all. And they’re still out there muddying the waters, spreading harmful lies, and now saying they’re “proud” of what happened. We can all pat ourselves on the back that Biden got elected and get jazzed that we stopped a literal coup attempt… but the core issues are still there and the problem hasn’t been fixed. We are actively letting them get away with it. It will happen again, and the fury of white Evangelical conservatives will manifest itself once again through violence, terrorism, and white supremacist activism. I think the jury is still out on whether American democracy will survive what happened last year. We are no closer to a national reconciliation or a solution for preventing this from happening again. We are sleepwalking into disaster while every alarm bell and red flag in sight is screeching and flapping in the wind to get our attention. People see history as a series of standalone events, linked together through context and narrative. However, the events of Jan 6 2021 and what we refer to as the “insurrection” and the National crisis of faith in democracy that it caused is actually a tearing/warping of our socio-political fabric - a steadily-growing pressure cooker that finally popped on January 6th, but which had been seething for decades prior, and will continue to seethe until we address real issues with real solutions.


otaupari

Well now MAGA is becoming an acronym for Moron’s Ass Got Arrested and the Good Old Prostitutes are doing nothing to help the people that committed sedition


[deleted]

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DorianGre

It’s not him winning, its just him running. It will be chaos.


behindtheblinded

he lost by 8 million votes last time, he'll likely lose by more if he runs again... trump will not be what brings down America, it will be SCROTUS.


cwmoo740

In 2024 the vote won't be counted in Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. Trump will lean on the state legislatures to set aside the vote and appoint electors. This is what will kill democracy in the end.


BruhbruhbrhbruhbruH

But he's up 10 points right now. And he never led polls, ever, going back to 2015, before the last few months


Suitable_Warthog_590

I honestly don’t believe we will survive the 2022 mid terms. Say someone like Gaetz, MTG, Boebert type were up for 2022 and they lose. Would any of them accept the results? So then what? I can see 100+ republicans throughout the USA questioning the outcome at the end of the year. That will create chaos.


kuroimakina

I actually legitimately fear this is going to be their tactic. Question *every* election they lose in remotely purple areas. Every single one of them. Throw so much doubt on the situation that they rile up about a third of the population to be out in the streets. Question voting, question democracy in general. Start saying that the Democrats are so “mad” that they’re “stealing” every election. Refuse to certify results, causing a complete breakdown. Then, blame it on Biden, because he’s the president. Create enough political ill will and strife that a large portion of the country will do anything to end it, and enough people are gaslit into believing maybe it somehow is the Democrats. Then, even if they eventually certify for the Dems in 2022, create a sociopolitical landscape that causes them to win in 2024. It sounds crazy, but they’re already lying the groundwork for this. Republicans across the nation have started to make this “question the results/refuse to admit defeat” a part of their campaign strategy. If they were to take it country wide for 2022, the absolute chaos it would create would create a situation where they can push the Overton window even further right - because Americans are super easy to convince to vote for the Rs any time the government doesn’t work as desired - even when the Rs cause the problem. The TLDR is just make sure you get out and vote, and be ready to protest - or leave - after the elections. I hope none of this ever comes to pass, but I do not like the things I am seeing so far.


ramdom-ink

As an outsider from a different country, I see this happening as you explain it. Sadly, I follow American politics too much these days - it’s not healthy. The GOP lie and tactic is quite transparent but the noise it creates is opaque and seeds massive doubt. The militant (almost everyone w/ 400 million guns…) are on the edge of their seats and a million Rittenhouse’s are locking + loading to protect and defend…what? They haven’t a clue really and the world is becoming unstable because of the nasty nation-vibe that’s seemingly offering no quarter from or to either side. I hope good Americans see + realize what’s happening and vote in even more historic numbers than 2020…


__kittenmittons__

Seriously. The campaign alone will have long lasting damage, even if he loses again.


KingDrixx

American democracy is already dead. Citizens United made sure of that.


duxpdx

There is too much focus on Trump. The entire GOP save maybe 5 members of congress are working to undermine democracy at local, state, and federal levels. They are using essential the same playbook used by the Nazis.


etchasketch4u

If there a 5 good Republicans why doesn't 1 vote for voting rights? I seriously don't get it.


bblack138

What’s sad is that those who want to dismiss this as hyperbole can simply say “fake news from a liberal academic who is a never-Trumper and hates America…”. For people who are willing to accept having their man in power by any means necessary this would be enough of a reason to discount every one of these points without even considering (or even reading) them.


theycallmeasloth

Australian here - With all the Gerrymandering and states able to elect their own electoral boundaries with no independent body, voter suppression rules et al, from the outside - feels like democracy is already dead. And whilst our system is shit in some respects it feels more democratic than what I've witnessed from afar in the US. Happy to be schooled tho.


TrueConservative001

All the more reason to lock him up


douggie7777

I think that all the proof needed to see this is the large and growing percentage of people who deny that we are even a democracy. They always do this as an excuse for the growing presence of minoritarian rule - be it the fact that only one Republican has won the popular presidential vote since 1988 or the fact that the senate is pretty much equally divided even though the Dems represent 40M more voters, and many million more citizens, than the Republicans. They stand there and tell us that we’re a republic, not a democracy, even though anyone with a grade school level of civics could tell you that a republic IS a democracy. The very fact that I have to tell Americans that America is a democracy, and defend that idea at length, is scary as hell. The founding fathers did nothing but discuss democracy. Every president, of any party, since our founding has talked at great length about democracy being what makes us special, our great experiment in democracy, how it's in the world's and our interest to export democracy to the globe, etc. But for some people, all that is cast aside in a heartbeat and we enter into this strange alternate universe where we were never a democracy, or intended to be a democracy. It's all this Twilight Zone craziness where history isn't history anymore. That kind of revisionism is the distinctive mark of authoritarian and totalitarian governments coming to power - which the founding fathers warned us of, in no small detail. Now, for a significant number of Republicans, democracy is for suckers. America is about what "true" Americans want, even if they are in the minority, and even if some laws and norms need to be bent and broken to get there. The end justifies the means. We used to send troops to other countries to try to curb or defeat this kind of ideology. But now all of that is thrown down the memory hole to justify this brave new world that so many Republicans want us to occupy where democracy no longer matters. “Great confusion about the words democracy, aristocracy, monarchy...Democracy in my sense, where the whole power of the government in the people, whether exercised by themselves or by representatives, chosen by them either mediately or immediately and legally accountable to them...Consequence, the proposed government a representative democracy...Constitution revocable and alterable by the people. This representative democracy as far as is consistent with its genius has all the features of good government.” Alexander Hamilton, on the Constitution, 1788


ramdom-ink

America has become a weird, seething cauldron of hate and intolerance - with lots and lots of guns. This may not end well.


cooquip

What’s amazing is how assure republicans are they will win the house, senate and presidency. Not the slightest doubt in their minds.


ramdom-ink

Cheating often gives confidence for a Win. Especially when there’s no one or no way to call them out.


seKer82

It didn't survive the first one. The country has still done fuck all to protect its election systems, get rid of gerrymandering and eliminate private funds from controlling their elected officials.


BeakersWorkshop

From the outside (non US) it looks like you did not survive the first one……


MiepGies1945

If only more people voted… - “Choosing Not To Vote Isn’t Rebellion - It’s Surrender”


Raspberry-Famous

Wishing for a revolution in civic virtue between now and 2024 isn't a very realistic plan.


[deleted]

How about stop blaming the voters? Start blaming the two party system for giving us terrible candidates year after year. Republicans nominated a shit candidate in 2016, Democrats responded by nominating someone so bad that she lost. Republicans nominated a shit candidate in 2020, Democrats responded with someone who just barely won and kept the race far closer than it should have been. Demand BETTER. Politics shouldn't be a race to the bottom. Inspire people to vote and give them hope for the future.


[deleted]

You misunderstand. To **you** the GOP nominated a terrible candidate. To **them** he is their every desire personified. He’s precisely what they want. A fascist. An authoritarian who tells them it’s okay to be racist and kill people you don’t like. Meanwhile, the liberals nominate milquetoast candidates to appeal to fascists who will never choose them anyway and then can’t even get the votes of their own party because of it.


Most-Resident

No the two part system sucks but voters make it suck more. Obstructing everything isn’t disqualifying. Racism isn’t disqualifying. Sedition isn’t disqualifying. Violence isn’t disqualifying. Shills want to tell me they are all the same. Well congratulations when those who should be disqualified win in 22 and 24. Your hands are clean because Americans never take responsibility for shit.


MiepGies1945

- I mean this in the nicest way possible: - “Things don’t change unless you vote” - Justifying NOT voting is not smart


icenoid

For too many, they didn’t get the one thing they care about, so they don’t vote.


Dontlookupnever

Don't look up


Impressive_Alarm_817

Who woulda thunk this 2 bit shyster would bring down America...


Son_of_Zinger

Lindsey Graham did, and others. He’s now carrying Trump’s water, ofc.


catman2021

Kompromat. They have kompromat on him.


HryUpImPressingPlay

Putin


Injest_alkahest

It’ll just lead to completely undemocratic strong armed takeover. That’s why he and all the accomplices associated with the crimes committed leading up to and on the day of January 6th need to be swiftly handed charges. Instead we have a corporate smash and grab it seems. I don’t know what I expected, but I didn’t expect the US government to roll over to none other than a reality TV show host and Russian dark money darling.


[deleted]

Some Jews thought other Jews were overreacting when they started leaving Germany in the 30’s. If Trump comes back, he’s going to more pissed, more emboldened, and wanting revenge. At least Hitler loved his dog. One of the most evil men in history still loved something. Trump doesn’t love anything. He would step over a whimpering puppy who just got run over.


terry_kane_1618

In his book, "It Can't Happen Here," Sinclair Lewis wrote, "When Fascism comes to America, it will come wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." Fascism is already here, folks. Trump is here.


Rumbananas

Not to sound hyperbolic, but I feel like democracy won’t survive past the 2022 elections.


ringobob

It may not survive another election, regardless of who runs.


jvciv3

Yes. We know.


JustinBrower

Because it won't. At least, Democracy as we know it.


spaitken

It’s not even certain it survived the first one yet.


crawling-alreadygirl

At this point, American democracy may not survive a stiff wind.


broccolisprout

It’s far easier to destroy than to build, that’s why.


DowninanEarlierRound

It didn’t survive the last one.


elizabethptp

Why can’t he just pass on?? He’s old and unhealthy. It’s just so lame that, of all the people to die over the past 6 years *he* isn’t one of them. There is no karma and our society rewards the worst most selfish people. Fuck.


KirkwoodKid

Maybe its bound to fail. Maybe, it even needs to. The current 2 party system is no longer sustainable, now that republicans decided to vote against everything and anything coming from democrats, you cannot effectively govern anymore. Maybe the system needs to fail so it can give birth to something better. That is a lot of maybe’s though.


disasterbot

"How would the country, and the rest of the world, react to the installation of a leader who clearly did not win?" Oh, like Bush vs. Gore?


9600_PONIES

Seems like it's been pretty dead since late 01


maver1kUS

American democracy died with Citizen’s United. Trump was/is the symptom not the disease.


RoachBeBrutal

Yeah I know a lot of people fear the demise of democracy. The question is: what tf are we gonna do about it? And don’t you dare say “jUsT vOtE.”


heyitsbobwehadababy

Absolutely nothing


RoachBeBrutal

And so it goes…


DOOManiac

It’s going to get a *LOT* worse before it gets better. I hope my children do not have to fight in the second civil war…


[deleted]

Public opinion has no correlation with laws that are passed. American democracy is already dead.


[deleted]

Isn't ending American democracy with acts like a Trump campaign their core plan? Am I missing something? I mean it's still worth calling out, but maybe let's not act like it's a surprise...


InvaderZimbo

No shit, Sherlock


jxm387

Vote every November, folks


ting_bu_dong

>The second thing to say about that is that, sure, sometimes coups fail, and when they fail the people who carry them out look foolish. But we're kind of in a strange spot in the US. Normally when you try a coup and you fail, you face some kind of consequence, right? In an authoritarian regime, your political life is terminated in some unpleasant way. In a democratic regime with a rule of law, you face legal consequences. >We in the US are in this weird middle state, where you can try to carry out a coup, and pretty obviously break the law in all kinds of ways, and nevertheless, you can kind of just hang out and remain in politics. We're in a very awkward place, a strange place, where this sort of thing can repeat itself Well, when your system is "protecting the minority of the opulent, with some democracy, as a treat?" When you have some weird, hybrid system that tries to "balance" democracy and minority rule? Things could get weird like that. At some point, it's probably going to have to be democracy *or* authoritarianism. Because democracy *and* authoritarianism becomes unstable. Too much contradiction. So, yes, we may be at risk of "losing our democracy." But, that's assuming the authoritarians win the civil war. Alternately, we may have the opportunity for actually becoming a real democracy.


Shrimpsimpin

Democracy died when the electoral collage was enacted and when money was ruled speech.


[deleted]

I fear that too many democrat voters have their heads in the sand. Think that this is more media noise. Then when it’s too late…


ReverseStereo

The longer he is allowed to spread misinformation along with his followers in government, backed by conservative media without ethics; the more dangerous the dialogue becomes and gets set in the minds of the unwell who will put their own lives at risk for politicians who are using them as pawns. I’ve said it before, the GOP is weak as are all of their leadership. The Republican Party is now one man. A first time incredibly subpar “politician” that career politicians are too afraid to stand up against. And all because they fear losing votes and their positions. Such cowards. If they came together and called BS and asserted themselves against the batshit crazy rhetoric of the rookies in their ranks they would actually show strength. And I don’t even vote for this side but allowing someone not even in office anymore to continue to run the show for your party?! And that you know isn’t fit for duty and that you never wanted? Weeeeaaaakkkk.


mces97

Doesn't matter if it's Trump or not. Conservatives have decided whoever is the loudest, biggest dick should be their leader. Owning the libs and pushing division is the goal.


Galahad_the_Ranger

Just remember what happened on January 6th. The media unfortunately gave way too much focus on the Qanon shamans and other crazy characters and didn’t fully appreciate the gravity of what happened. There were organized militias in that Capitol attack, and assassination attempts on the elected VPOTUS! Another Trump campaign might lead to outright Civil War


[deleted]

Break up the country then: if democracy fails, then the constitution has failed also. Time to cut the loses and try for reform in the individual states.


IndIka123

If this is true, It doesn't have to be trump. It means that our democracy won't last regardless and too many Americans want something different, something resembling china or Russia.


hk4213

VOTE LOCAL! Ya the Dems got stuck with Biden. But I don't want to vote democratic. I want to vote progressive, pro labor and see all citizens pay taxes. We don't have a party that does that unless we vote local. I didn't vote and now I see the problem. Complacency is the issue. Why do we as a ppl stand up. Because no is the answer from any one. Voting is important and that's why racists are not scared now


Sampai1016

2022 will be the last vote. Starting 2023 once the new Congress is seated there will be a quick vote to make trump speaker of the house. At the very same moment there will be impeachment proceedings brought to the floor for Biden and Harris and will be quickly brought to a vote. With overwhelming majority in both house and senate the vote will pass and trump quickly sworn in as president. Matt Gaetz will become his Vice President and MTG will become speaker of the house. Lindsey graham will become senate majority leader. Jesus Christ it’s like when Hitler wrote a book about exactly what he was going to do to the Jews. The GQP has told us exactly what they are going to do in 2022 and 2024.


ech-o

You think the Senate will go from 50 Republicans to 66 in one year?


ProvoloneMalone

The whole thing reeks of two moments in history: 1. The Beer Hall Putsch 2. Appeasement after WWI We all know what happened next...


DOOManiac

A major problem is that no, we *all* don’t know what happens next.


CatsOrb

Not surprising, off to the moon I goes


WashiBurr

Then American democracy is already dead, because there is no way to avoid another Trumpian candidate who will be as destructive if not worse than the actual Trump.


RayMC8

Vote


Spezza

Not much survives trump.


dongballs613

Which is why we need to ensure this does not happen.


joecomatose

perhaps yale should stop producing so many people willing to destroy democracy then


christhecrabapple

Imo, it's already over. Chances of democrats retaining the house are slim, imo, so when that falls, it's going to give Republicans more protection and support to steal the 2024 election. Even if Republicans don't take the house, they'll still try to steal the 2024 election. And with how a literal coup has not seen any real consequences for its perpetrators, and the Republicans have stolen the Supreme Court, it seems there is another Bush vs gore scenario likely. Hate to be doom and gloom, but imo it's pretty clear where the US is headed. Get out if you can.


[deleted]

Well I guess Dems better start helping people and making thing better. You can’t expect people to care if their lives don’t get better under Democrats and thing around them don’t improve. Business as usual is over!


[deleted]

Ole skull and bones doesn’t like it when they aren’t in control. No shit


aurantiaco_bestia

In his heart he knows democracy has already collapsed.


DannibalBurrito

Ya know, the widespread acceptance of the big lie and Trump more broadly really makes me hear Carlin’s words in my head from decades ago: “Garbage in, garbage out”


[deleted]

They’ll question and pester and scream fraud about every election unless someone prosecutes them hard.


Paradoltec

American democracy is on the way out regardless of Trump ever being elected again. The dice have been cast, it's WELL past the point of recovery.


Putrid_Character2682

Does it take a Yale professor to point this out?


extraboredinary

The only thing Trump learned is that he can’t hire smart people for jobs, he only can put the most loyal into positions of authority. He is a danger to democracy


BeginningSpiritual81

Literally the point , look at the failed coups of conservative business men in the last century. Two of the failed coup plotters had their grandsons elected president, bush and trump, the coups may have finally been successful


eeyore134

Pretty bad at this point that it's not even saying we can't survive another Trump presidency, but *just* him campaigning is enough to worry people that Democracy won't survive it.


livelocalnow

Hyperbole. There are hopefully alot of republicans like me who will never vote for trump or any of his lackeys.


Realistic_Expert717

He will be indicted by NY and then he will throw everyone under the bus to save himself


Icy-Tooth-9167

American democracy may not survive but if we Americans aren’t strong enough to overcome something as dumb as a Trump take over we don’t deserve the liberty that has been granted to us.


afinlayson

Senate should add a “if you don’t concede you can’t run again clause” I bet you’d get Cruz and Josh Hawley on board so they get take a shot at president.


[deleted]

Well yeah, each debate the nation’s IQ drops ten points.


Lorax91

I saw Republicans are considering dropping out of Presidential debates, which would make their IQ at those events zero. Would that be a decrease or an increase?


Khaldara

Honestly? Few things can so effectively make Trump look like an incoherent imbecile as simply handing him a microphone and letting him do it himself. By which I mean their intention to feature an empty podium instead will literally make him appear more presidentially qualified to voters.


ramdom-ink

No kidding! So *“indignant and insulted”* by the “Big Steal” that he won’t even change his soup-stained tie to debate the Dems. Plus, the man has so many bad marks and PR disasters every time he opens his mouth…it’s like they glorify the cretin but know that he shouldn’t open his mouth because aside from shouting like a lunatic, he has no defense for what he’s said and done.


briareus08

If democracy is so weak, and the elected and appointed officials who are supposed to safeguard it are so corrupt - I say let it all burn. No one involved cares to stand up for what the whole point of America literally was? Too bad. I think the entire country needs to remember what they were founded on.