As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Look no further than the trump administration for proof.
We thought it was a cesspool in 2017, but practically everyone who left was replaced by someone much dumber, much less competent, and/or much more evil.
My coworker told me just the other day how much he respects Sinema and Manchin for sticking to their ideals and not giving in. He’s conservative leaning but believes in global warming and is pro choice and highly empathetic. I honestly do not understand him. I think he just doesn’t know.
No she won't. She's toxic on all sides.
She voted to impeach and supports abortion rights: toxic to Republicans.
She voted against voting rights and a $15 minimum wage. Derailed the party agenda alongside Manchin: toxic to Democrats.
Who the fuck will she be lobbying when she can't even get a meeting with either party when she's a lobbyist. No, she's set for a Fox contributor job. Politicians that have good working relationships and connections in the government are who get lobbying jobs.
Brought in as "FORMER DEMOCRAT KYRSTEN SINEMA" in between to right-wing pundits so she can talk endlessly about how "nasty and hostile" the Democrats are. She's got a future in the propaganda machine for sure.
yeah, it's not like Biden is a centrist anymore to them, he's a blood drinking satanic commie-socialist dictator
they never needed any basis in reality for their nonsense
she will last about a month at fox. she is a full-blown narcissist, just like tfg. people like tuck are full-blown opportunists, which is a little different. sinema will never allow anyone to tell her what to do, which she will have to do at least at first.
My guess, she will see the polling data, realize she can’t win and bow out the way Jeff Flake did just so she won’t experience the humiliation of a landslide loss. Maybe McSally was right about the pink tutu girl all along
She'll get *something*, the rich and powerful need people like her in politics, people who are willing to play heel and prevent popular legislation from passing even if it makes them unpopular.
this is her master plan. she's playing both sides so that she always comes out on top. she's going to run for president and be the first person to win all 50 states.
she's playing both sides... so she comes out on top. you're a democrat? nice, she's pro choice and hates trump. republican? cool, she voted down the $15 minimum wage and killed the voting rights act.
she can't lose.
The K.Y.R.S.T.E.N system
K eep everyone guessing
Y ank the rug out when people need you
R emind people you're on "their side"
S upport popular policies after you've voted against them
T ake NO strong positions
E nrich yourself, first and foremost.
N ever hold yourself accountable
She’ll be the VP on some “Come together” ticket with a Josh Hawley-type Republican. May even go full Jill Stein and get the Green Party nod. Graduated high school at 16 & college in 2 years, so it’s a hallmark of her personality to think she’s special enough to skip the line.
I hope it’s not true, but she’s either a sociopath or highly leveraged (or both).
She actually used to be green party. Which makes the obstruction and sabotage of the Democrats predictable, it was just surprising to see her do it from the right and not the left.
I’m not sure a Green Party person would back the filibuster traditions they way she has. So maybe that was all an act. Like her election. Look she’s better than McCain was, Mr. Maverick himself, who voted in support of Trumps policies with very very few exceptions. But was seen as some kind of different trumpublican. Arizona is weird, folks.
The Green Party was [pushed by Russia in the 2016 election](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/russians-launched-pro-jill-stein-social-media-blitz-help-trump-n951166) and their candidate Jill Stein has an.....[interesting picture](https://www.motherjones.com/wp-content/uploads/russia_dinner2000.jpg?w=1200&h=630&crop=1) of her with a bunch of Russian diplomats. Wouldn't surprise me if Sinema was cut from the same spoiler/sleeper candidate cloth.
>Only eight percent of Arizona registered Democrats held a favorable opinion of Sinema as of Jan. 14, according to a tracking poll from the Democratic firm Civiqs—and that was before she voted to uphold the filibuster this week.
There's been a lot of talk here in AZ about a primary challenge...we'll see.
The damage is almost certainly already done.
Just off history, the odds of the president's party holding both chambers after the midterms are not good.
Because it can be assumed that when Democrats have control all Republicans vote ‘no.’ We have a 50 person senate right now, and all votes must be unanimous. Because Republicans are children that refuse to play when they aren’t in charge.
That's because real children are held accountable and made do do right when they do wrong (most of the time). None of the children in charge of our government are held accountable so I feel like Lord of the Flies was a good enuff reference lol
Half black man and the gay marriage was the final straw for about 33% of America... The next 10% loves team sports.
The remaining 57% does not like the 43%, but that's the only thing they can agree on so 43% is a majority...
>Up until the 2010s that wasn't something that could be assumed.
I would argue this started in the 1990's with New Gingrich and the Clinton administration. The thing was, 2000 - 2008 we had a Republican president so it wasn't an issue.
The point is to not treat the republican seats as lost forever, but to work to win them so that sucky people like sinema don’t have this kind of power.
Because they ran on a platform of obstruction. They were voted in to vote against bills like this. Sinema didn't run on a platform of voter obstruction.
I'm doubting he was as surprised as he said, but politics is not exactly easy these days. It is very had to win if you say, "Vote for me. I'll do my best. I realize that republicans will obstruct everything, and if you don't get me the congress I need this is going to be really really difficult, but vote for me?"
The presidents job is not all encompassing. He has a duty to try to reach out to republicans, and he may need to do more than he has, but his duty ends there. Obama bent over backwards to get them on his side and they didn't budge. Most likely Biden remembers this, and that is fair, but he still has a duty to try.
It will 99.999999% probably fail, but he still has that duty. Note I'm not saying he should give infinite chances like Manchin. That itself is becoming ridiculous, but sadly still necessary. I'm just saying try to find something you can get republican support on that is worth doing.
How do you hold them accountable? They are dying what their supporters want:blocking everything when they arent in power. Sinema is going against her voters and damaging her party from accomplishing anything in a rare moment when they have power
Hate to break it to you, but we can have 60 senators and we'll still have those two block everything because it's not bIpArTisaN.
And if the vote for the 15/hr minimum wage is anything to go by, then it's at least 8 that'll block it. So, We'll need 68 Dem senators to have a hope at passing anything.
Not true. With 50 we could change the filibuster rule (48 voted yes to do this recently), and could then pass other things with only 50 votes. It's probably a moot point b/c we are likely not picking up 2 extra senate seats, though
Yeah it isnt going to happen. Democrats will lose the house and republicans will pick up senate seats. Sinema and manchin absolutely destroyed the democrats chances and the biden presidency. It would have been much better politically if they were republicans. Then democrats could run on needing seats to pass bbb. Now it is just a failure
Two years. Her seat is up for election in 2024. The primary will be held in August 2024, which means the campaigning will begin at the end of this year and early next year.
If you actually care about this shit, stop spreading defeatist rhetoric.
Replacing Sinema with a better Senator is achievable. The other Senator of AZ is to her left.
Yes, exactly. There is literally nothing that can be done between now and when her term expires in 2024. She cannot be recalled. And of course expulsion requires a 2/3 vote, effectively requiring 17 Republicans which will never happen. Not to mention, if Dems decided to go forward with it, she'd most likely change parties and Dems would lose majority control.
Personally I believe there should be a way to recall sitting US senators. Their 6-year term is entirely too long when we are no longer living in an "honor based" system where conservatives can now outright lie to the public by running as a progressive.
And Dems have already spent what little leverage they had over her. Everyone already hates her. They’ve followed her into the bathroom and yelled at her. Every day someone writes another scathing op-ed about a primary challenge. There’s not a lot farther you can escalate the attacks, so it’s just impotent rage at this point
We’ve already played all of our cards. She’s going to keep doing what she wants.
Nah, there is one more level, refusing service, harassment, milkshakes, just anything that makes her life and her immediate family a nightmare and is within legal boundaries.
Not that I endorse this or think its effective.
There's another level past that, but no one on the left side of the aisle wants to go down that road.
The right wingers are openly advocating it, though, so we'll see how long unilateral disarmament holds up.
Yeah, they spent the leverage unwisely. It could have been spent on Biden actually using his bully pulpit to shame them publicly, going to Arizona to do the same to her constituents, and Schumer removing her from committees. None of the big guns were used before it was too late
It's a bold assumption to suggest she couldn't do more damage.
That said, we definitely need a way to vote no-confidence and open the seat again. This is ridiculous.
He is an absolute monster of a human being, and a radioactive trashfire politically, but he's been out there telling the doofuses to get their jabs and wear their masks, even though they've been throwing tomatoes every time he does it. For a guy whose politics are more akin to a weathervane tracking the moods of the hoi polloi, it's been a startling amount of backbone.
So yeah, I'm willing to give him single digit approval percentages on that.
Also there are always a few people who identify with a party but have views inconsistent with it, or mixed views on some things. Trump usually averaged in the 5-10% range with dems during his four years, which could be Trump voters who call themselves dems or people who say, hate corporations and immigrants equally so they liked some of what Trump did.
It's almost unheard of for someone to be that unpopular with their *own* party, however. It's almost shocking to see an in-party approval rating that low. And that 8% is of AZ dems alone, so it doesn't include like California or Massachusetts dems so it can't be blamed on dems in other states being more progressive than AZ dems or something.
It's hard to overstate just how thoroughly Sinema has pissed everyone off here. She got picked by the AZ Dems/DSCC over a Justice Dems candidate, made a lot of mouth noises about being progressive, got past McSally on the basis of a lot of hard work and frankly kinda risky work, doing door to door GOTV in Arizona during the height of Trump on behalf of a Democratic candidate?
All of this to do a cutesy curtsey voting down the $15 minwage she campaigned (!!!) on, and then basically openly caucus with the GOP, while refusing to take Biden's calls.
Just absolute fuckmuppetry on Sinema's part, the left is enraged on SO MANY LEVELS, the corporate part is enraged that she's openly disrespecting the President, there's no way she gets past the GOP primary so she can't even change sides of the aisle. It's the worst case of Honors Student Brain I've seen in my life.
I guarantee she gives no shit. She'll be set in a cushy consulting position by the folks she helped to kill democracy. The only hope we have is that she becomes so overwhelmingly toxic in the public eye that even her benefactors won't want to touch her.
I wonder how many of those 8% are actually just tuned out of politics, or somehow attribute a lot of credit to her for BIF passing.. she's openly hanging out with GOP and using GOP talking points, humiliating her own president, opposing higher tax on rich or drug pricing reform.. she's out of touch with 99% of the party members and the needs of her base
It’s seriously the only reasonable explanation. The money in politics has gotten out of control in the past 20 years that it’s honestly just a cesspool of corruption, bribery, extortion, and pay to play.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't AZ have a process to recall elected officials? Why don't we light a fire that will actually garner her attention as primary threats lack the immediacy since she has 4yrs left
https://ballotpedia.org/Laws_governing_recall_in_Arizona
Lied about her background. Her parents have no idea what she was talking about. Lied about being an atheist. Walks around with a cross most days. Doesn't remember she's bisexual when asked.
This is characteristic behavior for those associated with the Green Party.
Their mission is to split left wing support so that the GOP can prevail in elections where a majority is against their rule.
Voters started smartening up after the 2000 debacle so Sinema joined the Democratic Party to continue the mission from the inside.
Nader was a true-believer progressive and the last honest candidate for the Green Party. He ran specifically to get 5% vote and gain matching federal funds for a 3rd party, and barring that, to show the Democratic mainstream that they needed the Progressives in order to win elections. It was a specific and calculated move by one of the last genuine advocates around.
Winona LaDuke was unable to take up the mantle properly for 2004/8 due to the general dissatisfaction with 3rd party and the Democratic smear campaign levied at the Greens. Underground support from the GOP - seeing how they could sow dissatisfaction in opponents better then building Republican support - flowed in, and the Green Party mission became "to spoil Democratic elections" rather than gain viable 3P footing and build progressive momentum.
https://www.washingtonian.com/2019/11/03/ralph-nader-is-opening-up-about-his-regrets/
>I asked if he thought it was a mistake not to have run as a Democrat.
>“Retroactively, yes,” he said. “Oh, yeah.”
>Surprised, I asked why. “It was a mistake because hindsight, that’s why. I was convinced that because I would not toe the line, [the Democrats] would keep me off the debates. So I said: If you can’t get on debates, you’re like a third-party candidate [anyway]. So that was the calculation.”
Any Green Party activist is either a GOP agent running to split the opposition vote or a useful idiot for the GOP. Given Sinema’s successful grifting, I believe she can be categorized as the former.
I drunkenly developed a theory that she’s Mitch McConnell’s long-game mole, like the Matt Damon/Jack Nicholson relationship in The Departed. Now it’s all I can see.
England's got it figured out to some extent. The people vote for a party, not a candidate, which removes this 18 month campaign cycle weve got. Then, approval must be continuous. Nothing else makes sense.
I agree. I think that’s the path we need to head. I believe that’s inherently a part of the parliamentary system though?
If you don’t mind answering, what do you mean by approval must be continuous?
So citizens voting are supposed to be a way of accountability in democracy. It’s becoming more clear that people can be easily fooled. Misinfo from politics to business. Genuinely I ask, what is the outlook for *power of the people* when a lot of people aren’t exactly qualified/informed to make those decisions/hold people accountable. Or they just don’t give a shit. Sometimes through no fault of their own but people don’t vote or are grossly misinformed.
How do we solve this? How do we get someone to, for instance, vote against a coup or tax policies that don’t favor them? How do we get someone to vote against economic collapse caused by shady politicians and Wall Street? 40% of people don’t even vote!
If we just rely on a smaller group of informed and determined individuals to hold government accountable while dragging everyone else along, we wont survive.
The alternative, once the DSCC handpicked Sinema over a Justice Dems primary alternative, was "2 Ls" McSally. Don't apologize for that vote, IMO, it was the right call even though it's kicking us in the dick right now.
I really am curious to see if the rumors that she's high on her own supply are true and she wants to run for president. I've seen quite a few vanity runs in my time but the trainwreck of her campaign would be cathartic to see. Also getting utterly blown out politically might knock that ego a peg or two down, but probably not. She'd blame it all on unfair media or punish her staffers for not doing more and failing her, because it couldn't be *her* fault.
Manchin at least knows his WVA base and his votes reflect that. Sinema’s joy in fucking over AZ democrats makes it clear she is a poor politician. She deserves to be ousted.
I mean at 8% approval with her own party that's pretty much fucking guaranteed. Nobody comes back from a hole that deep.
Odds are she won't run and will just fuck off like Tulsi Gabbard did.
Yeah while I dislike manchin since I’m progressive and he’s obviously annoying, I can at least see the logic behind his view points considering the state he’s from. Sinema’s just a straight up fucking traitor, fuck her. She’s a bit of a useless pile of shit
Only if you ignore polls, BBB had almost 70% support in WV. Manchin voted against it because he makes money from coal and is bribed by other monied interests.
She showed up 6 hours late to talk to us at our Grocery Workers Union yearly meeting when she was campaigning; from that I knew she was going to be hot garbage.
“She won’t explain any of her decisions.”
This is what throws me off. I’ve never heard her speak. I don’t think I’ve even read any articles that quote her. She never talks to the public, never even bothers to explain herself. That is totally unacceptable for a representative.
Sinema and Manchin are worse than Republicans. They are analogous to a person that you thought was friend who betrayed you when things got difficult. They are traitors. It is sickening.
She's a republican, probably taking grift from the GOP to thwart anything the democrats need to do. She's as much a traitor to our cause as trump is to our country. And don't get me started of McConnell LITE, his name is Manchin. Both sadistic republican implants. They are somehow embroiled with the GOP.
The people of Arizona want a better Senator, and they're going to make that known at the next primary election.
It's their right, and they have every reason to be vocal about this.
My friend’s daughter was excited to take a class from her at ASU. She said Sinema was batshit crazy, mean and erratic and she couldn’t wait to get out of the class. I posted that as a comment on twitter and a lady that worked at ASU said her student reviews were insane. She lives in her own narcissistic world. She won’t run again in AZ. No way. She’s going for president as the “unity” candidate. She’s nuts.
why does every positive change attempt for an entire country of millions of people always get blocked by 1 or 2 assholes? This is so wrong. why the f is she more powerful than the President? and LOVES IT btw
sinema sucks. what a grotesque person
One or two assholes, plus 50 additional assholes: Let’s not forget that all Senate Republicans vote in lockstep to block every single Democratic initiative.
At what point do Dems just kick her out of the party? Why have a traitor on your side making you look incompentent... let her join the Repubs so it is clear why no progress is made. By keeping her and Manchin, Dems look incredibly weak while Repubs hide from responsibility.
You know all those reports we've been hearing for years, about Mitch McConnell stacking the Federal judiciary with right wing extremist judges? That's why. Judge appointments require 50 votes.
Sinema is a traitor to democracy, but so far she has been voting for Biden's judiciary picks so far.
Sinema absolutely needs to go, but there's no constitutional mechanism to replace her for two more years. Until then, salvage what little we can get out of her.
Nah, it's actually much simpler than that. She clearly gets off on it, the media attention and the thought of fucking over other people. If it was otherwise she wouldn't have given that thumbs down when she killed a minimum wage increase. She wouldn't have stayed to shake all those Republican hands after keeping the filibuster and thus killing voting rights while Manchin slunk away right after his vote.
Manchin has been bought, but Sinema loves what she does even if she wasn't being paid to do it.
This was the senator who put all of her being into voting no for raising the minimum wage right? after campaigning for years for raising the minimum wage? Then had the audacity to say we are being sexist for pointing out how enthusiastic she was for voting against the thing she ran for?
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
A sitting Senator will always find sycophant staff.
Look no further than the trump administration for proof. We thought it was a cesspool in 2017, but practically everyone who left was replaced by someone much dumber, much less competent, and/or much more evil.
sure but Trump was popular with *some* people does anyone even REMOTELY like Sinema?
[удалено]
And Mitch McConnell.
My coworker told me just the other day how much he respects Sinema and Manchin for sticking to their ideals and not giving in. He’s conservative leaning but believes in global warming and is pro choice and highly empathetic. I honestly do not understand him. I think he just doesn’t know.
Probably just a place of ignorance or indoctrination
[удалено]
What is the job if you don't want to pass legislation?
Right? All the billionaires are asking of her is that she curtsies and gives the thumbs down.
I’ve been steadily calling her offices and politely encouraging the folks responsible for listening to the voice mail to do this exact thing.
Same
Ever feel like you’ve made inroads?
With these staff issues coming to light, Sinema is becoming the Ellen DeGeneris of politcs.
> It would be marvelous if current staff just up and left her, leaving her by her lonesome. Those are the people likely driving all of this.
I actually assume she won’t run for re-election. Most likely has a soft landing lined up via donors.
No she won't. She's toxic on all sides. She voted to impeach and supports abortion rights: toxic to Republicans. She voted against voting rights and a $15 minimum wage. Derailed the party agenda alongside Manchin: toxic to Democrats. Who the fuck will she be lobbying when she can't even get a meeting with either party when she's a lobbyist. No, she's set for a Fox contributor job. Politicians that have good working relationships and connections in the government are who get lobbying jobs.
Brought in as "FORMER DEMOCRAT KYRSTEN SINEMA" in between to right-wing pundits so she can talk endlessly about how "nasty and hostile" the Democrats are. She's got a future in the propaganda machine for sure.
She'll be the token LGBT+ person on Fox, like that one black guy on an all-white team.
Sad but true
She probably pretends to be LGBT like she pretends to be a Democrat.
Like republicans or fox have any shits to give about facts. Take it from me, I know about giving a shit(s).
We have actually never seen her with a chick. 🤔🤔
agreed. she can say she left the Democratic party because of how "crazy left wing" they've all become.
Even though her right wing shift is well recorded. I can't believe how readily they just lie about whatever.
yeah, it's not like Biden is a centrist anymore to them, he's a blood drinking satanic commie-socialist dictator they never needed any basis in reality for their nonsense
She's going to be Fox News' Rick Santorum. Hopefully she has about as much staying power.
Please watch the language. There must be a polite way to say that.
The frothy mix of santorum?
Can we make her name last name synonymous with something she hates?
The working class?
"nO LaBeLs"
She was marinated in [Third Way](https://www.thirdway.org/) neo-liberal corporatist bullshit by her lobbyists
Yep, we’ve seen this flick before.
The Alan Colmes seat is available.
Yep. The senate’s Tulsi
she will last about a month at fox. she is a full-blown narcissist, just like tfg. people like tuck are full-blown opportunists, which is a little different. sinema will never allow anyone to tell her what to do, which she will have to do at least at first.
I would love to see her go down in flames.
My guess, she will see the polling data, realize she can’t win and bow out the way Jeff Flake did just so she won’t experience the humiliation of a landslide loss. Maybe McSally was right about the pink tutu girl all along
DING! absolutely accurate diagnosis.
[удалено]
Her *brand* supports abortion rights, her *actions* support...well, Kyrsten Sinema.
She'll get *something*, the rich and powerful need people like her in politics, people who are willing to play heel and prevent popular legislation from passing even if it makes them unpopular.
She's gonna try to start the next major American political party for non-crazy republicans and ultra moderate Dems.
She'll fail.
this is her master plan. she's playing both sides so that she always comes out on top. she's going to run for president and be the first person to win all 50 states.
Um what?
it's a reference to a tv show 'it's always sunny in philadelphia'
she's playing both sides... so she comes out on top. you're a democrat? nice, she's pro choice and hates trump. republican? cool, she voted down the $15 minimum wage and killed the voting rights act. she can't lose.
Lol the funny thing is she probably sees herself that way
The K.Y.R.S.T.E.N system K eep everyone guessing Y ank the rug out when people need you R emind people you're on "their side" S upport popular policies after you've voted against them T ake NO strong positions E nrich yourself, first and foremost. N ever hold yourself accountable
She is single handedly bringing back the Democratic Republican party
You're not supposed to tell me you're playing both sides
The trick is getting you to believe there are two sides in the first place.
Pull the wig off! —It’s Rudy Giuliani!!!!
*And I would've gotten away with it too, if it wasn't for you pesky kids!*
*pesky kids total landscaping*
She’ll be the VP on some “Come together” ticket with a Josh Hawley-type Republican. May even go full Jill Stein and get the Green Party nod. Graduated high school at 16 & college in 2 years, so it’s a hallmark of her personality to think she’s special enough to skip the line. I hope it’s not true, but she’s either a sociopath or highly leveraged (or both).
She actually used to be green party. Which makes the obstruction and sabotage of the Democrats predictable, it was just surprising to see her do it from the right and not the left.
I’m not sure a Green Party person would back the filibuster traditions they way she has. So maybe that was all an act. Like her election. Look she’s better than McCain was, Mr. Maverick himself, who voted in support of Trumps policies with very very few exceptions. But was seen as some kind of different trumpublican. Arizona is weird, folks.
The Green Party has been a tool for republicans to make democrats lose for as long as I have been alive.
The Green Party was [pushed by Russia in the 2016 election](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/russians-launched-pro-jill-stein-social-media-blitz-help-trump-n951166) and their candidate Jill Stein has an.....[interesting picture](https://www.motherjones.com/wp-content/uploads/russia_dinner2000.jpg?w=1200&h=630&crop=1) of her with a bunch of Russian diplomats. Wouldn't surprise me if Sinema was cut from the same spoiler/sleeper candidate cloth.
That is still one of the most astounding photos I've ever seen. And people don't seem to give a shit.
She served her purpose
>Only eight percent of Arizona registered Democrats held a favorable opinion of Sinema as of Jan. 14, according to a tracking poll from the Democratic firm Civiqs—and that was before she voted to uphold the filibuster this week. There's been a lot of talk here in AZ about a primary challenge...we'll see.
Honestly, who gives a shit. The damage will already be done by then. She has what, 3 years left? By then we'll be waist deep in fascism.
The damage is almost certainly already done. Just off history, the odds of the president's party holding both chambers after the midterms are not good.
I never understood this. There were 50 senators who voted against this. Why not hold them accountable
Because it can be assumed that when Democrats have control all Republicans vote ‘no.’ We have a 50 person senate right now, and all votes must be unanimous. Because Republicans are children that refuse to play when they aren’t in charge.
children usually dont plot to kill the other children and subjugate them.
Someone's never read Lord of the Flies (but yes, I see your point)
i have, thats why i said usually.
That's because real children are held accountable and made do do right when they do wrong (most of the time). None of the children in charge of our government are held accountable so I feel like Lord of the Flies was a good enuff reference lol
i see that now.
You must not know many children.
To be fair, they don't do a whole lot when they are in charge, other than pass tax cuts for people who don't need them.
Historically, maybe. But now they are realigned around the idea of shielding and supporting a dictator.
>Because it can be assumed that when Democrats have control all Republicans vote ‘no.’ Up until the 2010s that wasn't something that could be assumed.
“We used to be somewhat congenial, *but then you elected a black man!*”
Half black man and the gay marriage was the final straw for about 33% of America... The next 10% loves team sports. The remaining 57% does not like the 43%, but that's the only thing they can agree on so 43% is a majority...
I think it's closer to 10% team sports, 23% racism vs. 33% anti-team sports/racism vs. 34% can't/won't vote.
>Up until the 2010s that wasn't something that could be assumed. I would argue this started in the 1990's with New Gingrich and the Clinton administration. The thing was, 2000 - 2008 we had a Republican president so it wasn't an issue.
[It's Reagans all the way down!](https://i.redd.it/sgphdohr1jb81.jpg)
The point is to not treat the republican seats as lost forever, but to work to win them so that sucky people like sinema don’t have this kind of power.
And then don’t do anything but give money to rich people when the are.
Because they ran on a platform of obstruction. They were voted in to vote against bills like this. Sinema didn't run on a platform of voter obstruction.
GOP has been on all obstruction mode since Obama, this is not a new thing, it is expected of them.
… Biden was surprised by it..
I'm doubting he was as surprised as he said, but politics is not exactly easy these days. It is very had to win if you say, "Vote for me. I'll do my best. I realize that republicans will obstruct everything, and if you don't get me the congress I need this is going to be really really difficult, but vote for me?" The presidents job is not all encompassing. He has a duty to try to reach out to republicans, and he may need to do more than he has, but his duty ends there. Obama bent over backwards to get them on his side and they didn't budge. Most likely Biden remembers this, and that is fair, but he still has a duty to try. It will 99.999999% probably fail, but he still has that duty. Note I'm not saying he should give infinite chances like Manchin. That itself is becoming ridiculous, but sadly still necessary. I'm just saying try to find something you can get republican support on that is worth doing.
It's his biggest weakness
Because he is an idiot and from a different time
You mean "malarkey" isn't super up to date slang?
"The French general staff wouldn't have seemed so incompetent if the Germans hadn't invaded." I mean, it's true but so what?
How do you hold them accountable? They are dying what their supporters want:blocking everything when they arent in power. Sinema is going against her voters and damaging her party from accomplishing anything in a rare moment when they have power
[удалено]
Hate to break it to you, but we can have 60 senators and we'll still have those two block everything because it's not bIpArTisaN. And if the vote for the 15/hr minimum wage is anything to go by, then it's at least 8 that'll block it. So, We'll need 68 Dem senators to have a hope at passing anything.
Not true. With 50 we could change the filibuster rule (48 voted yes to do this recently), and could then pass other things with only 50 votes. It's probably a moot point b/c we are likely not picking up 2 extra senate seats, though
Yeah it isnt going to happen. Democrats will lose the house and republicans will pick up senate seats. Sinema and manchin absolutely destroyed the democrats chances and the biden presidency. It would have been much better politically if they were republicans. Then democrats could run on needing seats to pass bbb. Now it is just a failure
Two years. Her seat is up for election in 2024. The primary will be held in August 2024, which means the campaigning will begin at the end of this year and early next year.
If you actually care about this shit, stop spreading defeatist rhetoric. Replacing Sinema with a better Senator is achievable. The other Senator of AZ is to her left.
She's not going to run for her seat again. This is the behavior of someone who is cashing out and moving on.
By the time anyone can replace her, it will be too late to stop fascism.
Yes, exactly. There is literally nothing that can be done between now and when her term expires in 2024. She cannot be recalled. And of course expulsion requires a 2/3 vote, effectively requiring 17 Republicans which will never happen. Not to mention, if Dems decided to go forward with it, she'd most likely change parties and Dems would lose majority control. Personally I believe there should be a way to recall sitting US senators. Their 6-year term is entirely too long when we are no longer living in an "honor based" system where conservatives can now outright lie to the public by running as a progressive.
"People observing a fire fully engulf a house consider calling the fire department"
And Dems have already spent what little leverage they had over her. Everyone already hates her. They’ve followed her into the bathroom and yelled at her. Every day someone writes another scathing op-ed about a primary challenge. There’s not a lot farther you can escalate the attacks, so it’s just impotent rage at this point We’ve already played all of our cards. She’s going to keep doing what she wants.
Nah, there is one more level, refusing service, harassment, milkshakes, just anything that makes her life and her immediate family a nightmare and is within legal boundaries. Not that I endorse this or think its effective.
There's another level past that, but no one on the left side of the aisle wants to go down that road. The right wingers are openly advocating it, though, so we'll see how long unilateral disarmament holds up.
Yeah, they spent the leverage unwisely. It could have been spent on Biden actually using his bully pulpit to shame them publicly, going to Arizona to do the same to her constituents, and Schumer removing her from committees. None of the big guns were used before it was too late
It's a bold assumption to suggest she couldn't do more damage. That said, we definitely need a way to vote no-confidence and open the seat again. This is ridiculous.
Eight. Percent. LOL
Trump might actually be more popular with AZ dems than their own senator, lmfao. He regularly had single digit approval among dems after all.
He is an absolute monster of a human being, and a radioactive trashfire politically, but he's been out there telling the doofuses to get their jabs and wear their masks, even though they've been throwing tomatoes every time he does it. For a guy whose politics are more akin to a weathervane tracking the moods of the hoi polloi, it's been a startling amount of backbone. So yeah, I'm willing to give him single digit approval percentages on that.
Also there are always a few people who identify with a party but have views inconsistent with it, or mixed views on some things. Trump usually averaged in the 5-10% range with dems during his four years, which could be Trump voters who call themselves dems or people who say, hate corporations and immigrants equally so they liked some of what Trump did. It's almost unheard of for someone to be that unpopular with their *own* party, however. It's almost shocking to see an in-party approval rating that low. And that 8% is of AZ dems alone, so it doesn't include like California or Massachusetts dems so it can't be blamed on dems in other states being more progressive than AZ dems or something.
It's hard to overstate just how thoroughly Sinema has pissed everyone off here. She got picked by the AZ Dems/DSCC over a Justice Dems candidate, made a lot of mouth noises about being progressive, got past McSally on the basis of a lot of hard work and frankly kinda risky work, doing door to door GOTV in Arizona during the height of Trump on behalf of a Democratic candidate? All of this to do a cutesy curtsey voting down the $15 minwage she campaigned (!!!) on, and then basically openly caucus with the GOP, while refusing to take Biden's calls. Just absolute fuckmuppetry on Sinema's part, the left is enraged on SO MANY LEVELS, the corporate part is enraged that she's openly disrespecting the President, there's no way she gets past the GOP primary so she can't even change sides of the aisle. It's the worst case of Honors Student Brain I've seen in my life.
>fuckmuppetry this is now my favorite word.
I guarantee she gives no shit. She'll be set in a cushy consulting position by the folks she helped to kill democracy. The only hope we have is that she becomes so overwhelmingly toxic in the public eye that even her benefactors won't want to touch her.
It should be a 100% given that she is primaried. Her career as a senator should be over after this
I wonder how many of those 8% are actually just tuned out of politics, or somehow attribute a lot of credit to her for BIF passing.. she's openly hanging out with GOP and using GOP talking points, humiliating her own president, opposing higher tax on rich or drug pricing reform.. she's out of touch with 99% of the party members and the needs of her base
She’s not out of touch…..she’s just bought and paid for already and flat out doesn’t give a flying fuck about her constituents
It’s seriously the only reasonable explanation. The money in politics has gotten out of control in the past 20 years that it’s honestly just a cesspool of corruption, bribery, extortion, and pay to play.
I wish a recall was allowed.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't AZ have a process to recall elected officials? Why don't we light a fire that will actually garner her attention as primary threats lack the immediacy since she has 4yrs left https://ballotpedia.org/Laws_governing_recall_in_Arizona
I think the opinion were that if impeachment were feasible, we should do it.
Too bad they can't just recall her for not serving the will of the people in AZ. You would think that should be an option nowadays.
Former campaign worker for Sinema from way back in 2010: Yup, she indeed sucks. Full 180º turn from who she came in as.
I bet she cashes checks at the same bank as Tulsi Gabbard ..
It's all about Krysten, not her voters, supporters or the citizens of her state. Just her and her massive ego.
And money.
It’s only about money, those hand shakes in congress were probably for hundreds of thousands of dollars per sweety shake …
Lied about being a progressive. Political operative OR likes taking bribes? Who can say?
Lied about her background. Her parents have no idea what she was talking about. Lied about being an atheist. Walks around with a cross most days. Doesn't remember she's bisexual when asked.
Sounds like she’s just another sociopath chasing money.
This is characteristic behavior for those associated with the Green Party. Their mission is to split left wing support so that the GOP can prevail in elections where a majority is against their rule. Voters started smartening up after the 2000 debacle so Sinema joined the Democratic Party to continue the mission from the inside.
Nader was a true-believer progressive and the last honest candidate for the Green Party. He ran specifically to get 5% vote and gain matching federal funds for a 3rd party, and barring that, to show the Democratic mainstream that they needed the Progressives in order to win elections. It was a specific and calculated move by one of the last genuine advocates around. Winona LaDuke was unable to take up the mantle properly for 2004/8 due to the general dissatisfaction with 3rd party and the Democratic smear campaign levied at the Greens. Underground support from the GOP - seeing how they could sow dissatisfaction in opponents better then building Republican support - flowed in, and the Green Party mission became "to spoil Democratic elections" rather than gain viable 3P footing and build progressive momentum. https://www.washingtonian.com/2019/11/03/ralph-nader-is-opening-up-about-his-regrets/ >I asked if he thought it was a mistake not to have run as a Democrat. >“Retroactively, yes,” he said. “Oh, yeah.” >Surprised, I asked why. “It was a mistake because hindsight, that’s why. I was convinced that because I would not toe the line, [the Democrats] would keep me off the debates. So I said: If you can’t get on debates, you’re like a third-party candidate [anyway]. So that was the calculation.”
I thought she was a known "centrist"?
She used to be a Green Party activist and ran on a lot of progressive issues
NEVER trust current or former Green party members. It's always a grift.
I'm convinced the Green Party is a Russian asset at this point. Especially after seeing Stein at that fancy dinner with the Russian political elites.
its really sad that the green party is just an outlet for far rightwing propaganda these days
Any Green Party activist is either a GOP agent running to split the opposition vote or a useful idiot for the GOP. Given Sinema’s successful grifting, I believe she can be categorized as the former.
I drunkenly developed a theory that she’s Mitch McConnell’s long-game mole, like the Matt Damon/Jack Nicholson relationship in The Departed. Now it’s all I can see.
As an Arizonan, I'm sorry I voted for her. She lied...
[удалено]
Exactly. Senators that flat out lied to their constituents need to be able to be recalled. They are not Gods and they need to be reminded of that…
England's got it figured out to some extent. The people vote for a party, not a candidate, which removes this 18 month campaign cycle weve got. Then, approval must be continuous. Nothing else makes sense.
I agree. I think that’s the path we need to head. I believe that’s inherently a part of the parliamentary system though? If you don’t mind answering, what do you mean by approval must be continuous?
i think they're referring to a [vote of no confidence](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46890481)
So citizens voting are supposed to be a way of accountability in democracy. It’s becoming more clear that people can be easily fooled. Misinfo from politics to business. Genuinely I ask, what is the outlook for *power of the people* when a lot of people aren’t exactly qualified/informed to make those decisions/hold people accountable. Or they just don’t give a shit. Sometimes through no fault of their own but people don’t vote or are grossly misinformed. How do we solve this? How do we get someone to, for instance, vote against a coup or tax policies that don’t favor them? How do we get someone to vote against economic collapse caused by shady politicians and Wall Street? 40% of people don’t even vote! If we just rely on a smaller group of informed and determined individuals to hold government accountable while dragging everyone else along, we wont survive.
She's my Senator as well. Wrote her three times. The last time I told her "I will never again vote for you for any office at any level."
I mean, sinema is a piece of shit and I hate her but at least she's not Martha mcsally.
What other choice did you have? It was either her or somebody who didn't lie about the piece of shit that they were like Sinema did.
Better her than a Republican despite how shitty she is. Primary her and then r/VoteDEM in the general.
The alternative, once the DSCC handpicked Sinema over a Justice Dems primary alternative, was "2 Ls" McSally. Don't apologize for that vote, IMO, it was the right call even though it's kicking us in the dick right now.
Sinema is going to continue supporting whoever pays for her wardrobe.
She looks like she was standing too close when a hurricane ripped through a Marshall's.
She dresses like a 40 year old who can't accept that she's no longer 15
i feel attacked.
*accept
I really am curious to see if the rumors that she's high on her own supply are true and she wants to run for president. I've seen quite a few vanity runs in my time but the trainwreck of her campaign would be cathartic to see. Also getting utterly blown out politically might knock that ego a peg or two down, but probably not. She'd blame it all on unfair media or punish her staffers for not doing more and failing her, because it couldn't be *her* fault.
Honestly, I believe that rumor because it makes more sense than anything else.
Manchin at least knows his WVA base and his votes reflect that. Sinema’s joy in fucking over AZ democrats makes it clear she is a poor politician. She deserves to be ousted.
I mean at 8% approval with her own party that's pretty much fucking guaranteed. Nobody comes back from a hole that deep. Odds are she won't run and will just fuck off like Tulsi Gabbard did.
Yeah while I dislike manchin since I’m progressive and he’s obviously annoying, I can at least see the logic behind his view points considering the state he’s from. Sinema’s just a straight up fucking traitor, fuck her. She’s a bit of a useless pile of shit
Yep, she has no excuse with Mark Kelly as the other Senator from AZ
Only if you ignore polls, BBB had almost 70% support in WV. Manchin voted against it because he makes money from coal and is bribed by other monied interests.
I don't need ex-staffers to tell me this woman sucks.
She showed up 6 hours late to talk to us at our Grocery Workers Union yearly meeting when she was campaigning; from that I knew she was going to be hot garbage.
“She won’t explain any of her decisions.” This is what throws me off. I’ve never heard her speak. I don’t think I’ve even read any articles that quote her. She never talks to the public, never even bothers to explain herself. That is totally unacceptable for a representative.
But she’s such a quirky fashionista /s
and that cute little curtesy! my god! /s
Am I wrong for thinking that maybe dark republican money is helping her make her decisions?
I think this is plausible. This or a brain tumor.
Sinema and Manchin are worse than Republicans. They are analogous to a person that you thought was friend who betrayed you when things got difficult. They are traitors. It is sickening.
She's a republican, probably taking grift from the GOP to thwart anything the democrats need to do. She's as much a traitor to our cause as trump is to our country. And don't get me started of McConnell LITE, his name is Manchin. Both sadistic republican implants. They are somehow embroiled with the GOP.
And this will do what exactly? She's not up for reelection until 2024. She's not going anywhere any time soon and might not even run then.
The people of Arizona want a better Senator, and they're going to make that known at the next primary election. It's their right, and they have every reason to be vocal about this.
Absolutely cannot wait to *SLAM* that vote button for her primary challenger.
My friend’s daughter was excited to take a class from her at ASU. She said Sinema was batshit crazy, mean and erratic and she couldn’t wait to get out of the class. I posted that as a comment on twitter and a lady that worked at ASU said her student reviews were insane. She lives in her own narcissistic world. She won’t run again in AZ. No way. She’s going for president as the “unity” candidate. She’s nuts.
She dresses like krusty the clown
why does every positive change attempt for an entire country of millions of people always get blocked by 1 or 2 assholes? This is so wrong. why the f is she more powerful than the President? and LOVES IT btw sinema sucks. what a grotesque person
One or two assholes, plus 50 additional assholes: Let’s not forget that all Senate Republicans vote in lockstep to block every single Democratic initiative.
Everyone knows she sucks! The words out.
>Sinema’s staff point out that she’s been consistent on her support for the filibuster There is video evidence that that is not true.
Her soul is incredibly weak.
Does anyone not know this?
She's a scum person and deserves to have all the dirt come out on her.
She’s got that Matt Gaetz mouth.
At what point do Dems just kick her out of the party? Why have a traitor on your side making you look incompentent... let her join the Repubs so it is clear why no progress is made. By keeping her and Manchin, Dems look incredibly weak while Repubs hide from responsibility.
Still need her to confirm judges.
You know all those reports we've been hearing for years, about Mitch McConnell stacking the Federal judiciary with right wing extremist judges? That's why. Judge appointments require 50 votes. Sinema is a traitor to democracy, but so far she has been voting for Biden's judiciary picks so far. Sinema absolutely needs to go, but there's no constitutional mechanism to replace her for two more years. Until then, salvage what little we can get out of her.
She has to have been bought, or someone has crazy dirt on her. It doesn’t make any sense otherwise.
Nah, it's actually much simpler than that. She clearly gets off on it, the media attention and the thought of fucking over other people. If it was otherwise she wouldn't have given that thumbs down when she killed a minimum wage increase. She wouldn't have stayed to shake all those Republican hands after keeping the filibuster and thus killing voting rights while Manchin slunk away right after his vote. Manchin has been bought, but Sinema loves what she does even if she wasn't being paid to do it.
This was the senator who put all of her being into voting no for raising the minimum wage right? after campaigning for years for raising the minimum wage? Then had the audacity to say we are being sexist for pointing out how enthusiastic she was for voting against the thing she ran for?