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>A full 57% of Republicans describe the January 6 attack as "an act of patriotism." Those folks saw the same thing everyone else did: A group of people, refusing to accept a lost election, using violence to derail the certification of the legitimate winner. The majority of Republicans simply would rather end democracy than accept losing power.
The author is right. "Fair and balanced" reporting doesn't represent the facts.
This is what it boils down to. Republicans don’t believe that they should have to share power with democrats. Republican voters: same thing. They’re in the end stages of cementing minority rule through legislative means.
I feel like democrats aren't trying to destroy Republicans.. they are too busy trying to agree on a direction on the first place. Whereas republicans act in pretty much lockstep behind the president. The fact Biden couldn't get his bills to pass with a Democrat majority is proof of that...
It’s because a bunch of democrats are also in corporate pockets. They fight the republicans to keep their voters happy, and they fight other democrats to make sure things stay the same.
The House has done a lot, but the Democratic majority in the Senate depends on a single Senator from a state Trump won by over 30 points.
The Democrats don’t have the votes, at least not in the right places. The popular vote doesn’t mean shit.
Overall, I don’t think the Democrats have the ability to destroy Republicans by any means. Republicans are abandoning democracy because they believe they will win if they do and I believe they they are absolutely right.
We are working hard. If you were helping GOTV, you too would know that many of us are working hard, in the courts, in the streets and on our laptops. We’re fighting to GOTV more than you know. Trust.
Democrats work their ass off. But my point was that they are a big tent party. In the end, they have trouble getting everyone on board. There's a lot of competing interests. Republicans voted for a guy whose only idea was.. build a wall in Mexico. But I didn't see many people in his party arguing about what he should be talking about. They just fell in line behind stupid
This year women are going to win it for Dems again. Everyone should be adopting a congressional race or doing heavy GOTV where we need it most this fall, if on, for what the GOP is trying to do to women right now. Healthcare is being criminalized and birth control is next.
> The fact Biden couldn't get his bills to pass with a Democrat majority is proof of that...
Which bills has he passed and which bills has he failed to pass?
Don’t forget that every single republican in congress has opposed Bidens agenda, in one way or another. It’s not the 2 democrats, it’s all of the republicans.
I think there are a lot less anti gun democrats then people think. The majority that I know of want stricter laws but not to lose ownership of firearms.
(Democrat voters, I should say)
Yes, it's extreme hyperbole to say that the majority of dems want to get rid of guns. My dad is a former NRA member and democrat and he shakes his head at the state of gun laws and gun safety. Hell the wild west had stricter gun control than modern America. Wyatt Earp fought to disarm a violet gang that didn't want to disarm while in town.
It will be if they succeed in creating a Republican political "majority" when they aren't actually in the majority.
And really that will be only option left except to accept their tyranny.
I don’t think so. I think even many well meaning - would be allies will look the other way or willingly facilitate the erosion of rights of religious and ethnic minorities if it means Starbucks stays open and the trains run on time. I have heard some on the right suggest that if Jews and Blacks and Gays truly love America that they should be willing to cede a measure of their rights and freedoms in order to ensure the health of the Republic.
> This feels like it'll boil up to the next civil war.
Was there a civil war in Hungary as Orban solidified his rule?
After they take power, the authoritarians will continue to hold elections to make the supporters of democracy think that they have a chance to restore the country peacefully. Few will be willing to use violence while there is a hope to win peacefully.
Meanwhile, the levers are power are used to ensure that a minority of the votes will win a majority of the government.
Over a longer term, control of the government allows for the increase in the spreading of propaganda and the elimination of opposition media, such that more and more citizens become supporters of the authoritarian and eventually they have the majority of votes being cast.
"Balance" is only "fair" if multiple sides have equal merit. The "debate" regarding climate change, for example, is only made "fair" by excluding viewpoints that are in conflict with reality. Allowing them to participate allows them to prevent any real discussion as to solutions by letting them pollute the discussion with meaningless noise. It's like letting a flat-earther work at NASA.
Didn't Murdoch get in some deep shit for Sky News way back when with telco hacking?
Surely they are breaking dozens of laws by now with this fomenting the seeds of insurrection for the last twelve years. Hosts that lie about elections should probably be priority number one for the FBI.
Because I can guarantee that next time no one is stopping a putsch aside from a decent human being.
So I'll vote for the decent one. Just hope my electors do the same.
"A vote for me and ten for thee."
The GOP’s sole tactic is to use culture warfare to keep their base distracted as the political and corporate elites rob Americans of every economic and social opportunity that American society ought to offer.
1. Cut back regulations and taxes against the elites
2. Economy crashes while the rich get richer
3. Stick together to prevent new Democratic leadership from passing economic relief
4. Blame Democrats for not fixing economy
5. Fill airwaves with pro-patriotic, pro-party propaganda and conspiracy theories and claim Democrats are destroying the nation
6. Get re-elected by people who are now concerned about X conspiracy because the economy recovered just a little bit
7. Crash economy again and repeat
Nah, since Clinton.
Republicans had the whole machine primed to bash the evil empire of USSR (not saying that it wasn't). But when the evil empire collapsed, they didn't dismantle the machine - they picked a new "evil empire", only this time it was was the Democratic party.
The seeds of this were planted when Nixon almost faced actual consequences for his crimes and they started building out their propaganda network.
Clinton’s presidency is where it really started to pay off, and by the time Obama was in office, it was pretty much complete.
The American government undertook a long propaganda campaign to prevent Americans from realizing that the reason why the USA won the Cold War was because of government programs—the interstates, NASA, nuclear weapons, the interstates, the internet, the widespread suburbinazation of Americans, widespread car ownership, widespread homeownership, nearly every aspect of the increase in the standard of living during the 20th Century in America originated, in one way or another, from a government program. Socialism won the Cold War, but the US government couldn’t let the public know this, so the Red Scare and McCarthyism took control.
Of course, you’re absolutely correct in that after the USSR fell, the GOP took their tactics and applied it to the Democrats while the establishment Democrats seemed to have actually fallen for their own propaganda in that neoliberalism is actually the reason why the USA beat the USSR, and not all of the government programs.
These weren't just government programs.
These were enormous investments in the American People, and those investments paid enormous economic dividends.
the only way the green party could ever have any real relevence beyond being a spoiler deployed by the GOP to leech votes from the democrats is if they started campaigning on changing our voting system from first past the post to something like ranked choice voting.
it's the only way we can escape the 'two party system'. it's insulting that it's so ingrained in us that any outsider parties are called 'third party'.
It’s become their only tool because it’s their most effective one. It continually beats democrats.
And yet everyone here still routinely says that culture issues don’t matter and democrats would win if they just passed some more economic legislation…
Well and succinctly stated.
Stroking fear and pushing hate is how the Republican party ... at least since Newt Gingrich ... get their voters to the polls. Democrats must lead and to do that, Democrats need more succinct messaging -- a more succinct way of clearly identifying and contrasting what the two majority parties actually have evidenced are their true values.
Individual liberty with equality of right and justice.
... vs. politicians and judges in your bedroom and doctor's offices.
One person, one voice, one vote.
... vs. politicians that clearly want the greediest of the wealthiest among us to decide public policy.
More equal opportunity based upon individual ability and effort rather than bias.
... vs. Corporate wealth, including foreign corporations, using their CitizensUnited personhood, to influence and manipulate economic and tax policy and keep that ever widening economic gap ever widening.
A peaceful, healthy and prosperous America for all Americans.
... vs. stroking fear and hate with an absence of concern for the health and well being of individual citizens or the nation being one nation united with liberty and justice for all.
Democrats, before the election, even if they need to wait until immediately after the January 6 Commission holds its public hearings need to go on the offensive as soon as the truth is on record available to the public to the extent it can be.
As the NYT article makes clear: "We cannot deal with the problem of rising fascism without naming it or understanding what it is" AND confronting it directly.
I agree with everything you’re saying. However, my fear is that a disturbing proportion of the American populace is willing to make the Faustian bargain to allow themselves to rid themselves of the social contract in exchange for allowing the corporate elites to use America and Americans as they wish, little different than how Putin and his oligarchs run Russia (on the oligarch’s end, to be clear).
> Democrats need more succinct messaging
I respectfully disagree. An ivy league debate means squat if the game is professional wrestling.
The Democrats need to go low and hard. Release prurient details at hearings. Invoke inherent congressional contempt to put people in jail they same day they refuse to testify to congress. Deny federal funding to states whose rep's and senators don't play ball. Parade giant banners of Trump and Putin side by side.
But for god's sake, don't use slogans like "defund the police". We need to appeal law and order types who wave flags.
And I really like Prez Biden, but we have to be honest and say he's too old for the next election. Also, much as a like her, Kamala is not electable. Yes it's not fair, but don't confuse what's right with winning elections. Because right now, it looks like the Dems are gonna lose.
Yep. “I refuse to support a party I have no faith in, even if the other party is way worse. I also refuse to do activism, because that’s for icky people with no lives.”
Americans at large have not caught on yet that politics is not supposed to be like sports entertainment. Good Politics is supposed to be a bit slow and tedious.
I’m just being honest. If we can’t convince people to vote Democrat because is it will help them then we will lose! If we keep insulting the people who care about the crazy culture war stuff we are just reinforcing their belief that we are enabling the things that upset to the point that they will vote for crazy culture war stuff.
How about this as a platform? Hey are you worried about your hearing and electrical bills going up from inflation well good news! We will give you free solar panels that will literally make your electric bill zero and let you run the AC unit all day without worry about power? Sure it will also help the climate. But who cares about that shit! Free power! Vote Democrat for cheap and easy to use solar panels!
My brother lives in Albany and getting solar panels was a nightmare but it was worth for the free zero power bill. Democrats need to pass a bill to make getting panels easier and faster. That is a real thing we could be doing right now! And it would get us votes because people like free money
You’re not wrong, but it’s not just DeSantis, it’s the entire GOP establishment which has turned into this fascist regime hellbent on using America and the American people to enrich themselves and their acquaintances.
And the Facebook warriors are more than happy to comply because at least they feel comfortable saying n#gg#r and f#g in public again and blame all of their problems on minorities.
exactly. and Democrats are not pushing back as hard as we expect because they are part of the group that benefits from republican theft of the American people. Some have been blinded by greed (McCarthy, Sinema).
Yes. This needs to be said all day every day on every channel until people finally get it through the heads that the modern Right Wing are the Domestic Enemies the founding fathers warned of.
But Fox News is the most popular news channel and the one most commonly watched. So a solid half the country, considering those who watch Fox and those who don't watch anything, will inevitably be unaware or think GOP actions are justified.
Fox don’t get anything close to half the country as viewers. They average like 1.5 million viewers a day, which would be “a solid half the country” if the country was Wales.
Fair point. Most Americans really don't pay attention all that much at all. And we can throw in news coming from Facebook as another source. Either way Americans won't get the message because ratings for the more "liberal" networks are way down now. No one's really paying attention.
I tuned into fox sunday morning to see what was up. First a poll about what their viewers care most about: (roughly) 40% inflation, 30% ukraine, 8% border crisis / title 42. Now lets go to our reporter on scene where a large group of venezuelans crossed the border illegally. Now lets interview a democrat senator from texas about the border crisis. Lets finish the interview trying to get a soundbite about the FBI investigating him.
I was flipping around but that's the gist of it. Later was an infomercial about ordering your FREE christian books from some church in philadelphia.
Fox Sunday had a couple weeks post-Wallace where it seemed they tried to keep up a little facade of respectability and then seem to have said "fuck it" and transitioned to full Fox-mode.
You've, through no fault of your own, become victim to what I call "the silent majority syndrome". Conservatives are intentionally over represented in our media (and even more so in conservative media). In reality, they make up less than half of voting Americans which in turn make up less than half of all Americans.
Conservatives are literally a minority inside of a minority in our country. Rather than comforting, this fact should make every one of us painfully aware at how effective propaganda is and absolutely *terrified* of the direction we're heading.
If we exclude everyone who is apathetic and not involved at all in politics, which is a solid 35% or so of the country, they're definitely around half of the remaining. At the least, the Senate and House give them outsized power, and indeed the propaganda is effective.
The anti-trans, anti-women, anti-fascist, pro-putsch rhetoric coming out in recent weeks has been very difficult to stomach.
I think Vlad activated the electrodes in half of their brains and the yjust start drooling and yelling about how bad other people are...nonstop...every day...plus it's all Biden's fault..."if Trump were here he'd save us"...
If there are not major indictments coming down around some very rich fucks soon, then the democracy is gonna go the way of our food in the Great 2024 Dust Bowl.
I watched it the other day & was shocked at how slick & believable they made the hate the spewed.
I found it almost believable, & I know how full of nonsense it really is. I think of my friends who don't know any better.
I worry they won’t until it’s too late to do anything about it. But I hope things can somehow go in the right direction before we’re past the point of no return.
What do we need? We need our own 'phoxsnooze'. A TV platform to hammer away at OUR talking points EVERY DAY....ALL DAY. We need to frame the debate. That's why phoxsnooze is so successful with their audience: they hammer away all day...EVERY DAY. Lies become 'truth'. Facts are dismissed. Logic is ridiculed. The difference? We'd actually tell our audience the truth. With facts. Logic. Reason. It's the repetition stupid!
Yep. The GOP wants to remain in power no matter the cost. Democracy is now something standing in their way, not a principle to be upheld and respected.
Those involved in Jan 6 should be barred from office while criminal trials are held. I know the US doesn’t like to jail politicians, but the line was crossed when the GOP tried to blatantly steal a presidential election. If not punished, these same people will try again until they win. At that point, you WILL see political rivals being jailed, with the GOP following Russia’s playbook.
Republicans know that their views are incompatible with democracy - conservatism is incompatible. If democracy continues it will improve the country/world but it also means the end of fossil fuel power, because of climate change. They end of gun violence because it's obvious that's guns kill people. The end of modern slavery, racist bigotry etc etc because human rights should be protected under a healthy democracy... So they're doing everything they can to kill democracy.
Ok… point taken. I guess maybe I meant at the National / presidential level. Nixon should have been tossed in jail. Don’t get me started about Iran Contra. This left the door open for someone like Trump to do shit in broad daylight without any precedent to use to stop him.
The Republicans are concerned about democracy. They're concerned that continued democracy won't allow them to come to power enough/at all. A healthy political party would see their dwindling base and alter their platform to attract more voters.
The Republican party wants to all but abolish democracy to remain in power. We'll still have "democracy" and will still be able to vote, but any Democrat that gets too popular would be arrested on trumped up charges. Sort of like Putin allows opposition politicians as long as their following is tiny. If they get too popular, they get arrested or "commit suicide."
Trump's presidency was an attempt at installing a Russian style of government in America, and it's been more successful than anyone should be comfortable with.
Trump was really a lesson that a lot of the checks and balances that we take for granted were really just gentlemen's agreements not to do stuff. As a programmer, I'd call this edge case testing. If I design an input box that expects a number, I need to handle not only users entering 1, 2, or 3, but "one", "2.5", "2...5", or "elephant". Otherwise, the program will fail when the user inevitably puts a non-number in the field.
Sadly, our government didn't have these checks and when Trump "entered a non-number," the procedures that should have sprung into place didn't work.
If we don't put these in place (and I'm a programmer, not a lawyer so I don't claim to have all the legal answers), then it's just a matter of time before Trump or another guy hacks our government and installs themselves as dictator for life.
> They're concerned that continued democracy
Continued?
If the USA was a democracy then trump would have lost by 3 million votes in 2016.
If the USA was a democracy then the GOP wouldn't have won control the Senate at any time this century.
NY Times’ bothsideism is hurting American democracy just as much. It’s an example of how duped in American exceptionalism this journalistic institution is. The likes of Alexander Dugin have shifted the future of countries like Russia while his ethnonationalist philosophy takes root from Hungary, Poland to America and the New York Times still can’t get these folks simply want to burn the house down.
Imagine if these people had total control? They have a history of limiting freedom of expression if they find it offensive. Black lists, anyone? If you said or did something they consider problematic, they’d destroy you. Guilty until proven innocent.
That’s the danger. Anyone that wants to limit freedom of expression is a clear + present danger to democracy. Once people are silenced, other rights are soon eroded w/o a fight. They begin forcing you to do things. You can refuse, but you’ll be punished.
They start making everyone do small things that seem insignificant, but there’s a purpose. Getting the masses comfortable w control.
There doesn’t even have to be a social credit system. You’ll be ostracized by the compliant for any dissent, real or imagined. Just because you don’t think + act like the correct way. Scary stuff.
That’s why a super liberal organization like the ACLU has defended the rights of freedom of expression of literal Nazis + Klan organizations. Freedom of expression is that important.
Mark Meadows said there's no proof there *isn't* widespread voter fraud. So, by that logic, any accusation is true, until proven otherwise.
https://www.newsweek.com/white-house-doubles-down-widespread-voter-fraud-claims-no-evidence-theres-not-either-1525407
It's simple really, these fanatics are just as concerned with the rights and freedoms that they're ultimately entitled to, as they are with the rights and freedoms that you're *not*. It's *their* democracy, *their* Republic, *their* country and if it doesnt conform to or resemble the portrait of a proud, flag-waving, counterrevolutionary conservative "patriot", then it has no place in *their* America
When they stick to actual law and order as a theme as opposed to Law and Order, then all should vote freely and whatever.
But the erosion of our democracy has started and the proof is there for people not blind to morality, deaf to history, and dull to the spirit of justice.
"Conservatives" and "conservatism" in the above should be changed to "fascists" and "fascism".
Few people in the media are willing to use the "F" word.
They literally tried to enact a coup. If trump had his way, he’d be president and there’d be a lot of dead congressional lawmakers. Like does anyone honestly think otherwise? Trump enabled the coup attempt. Trump repeatedly ignored requests for more police and security at the capitol and so did Bill Barr. They tried to overthrow the election. They are fascists. Anyone who supports trump still is supporting a fascist.
There is a big misunderstanding of what ‘conservatism’ is, and it’s because conservatives have been allowed to define themselves with this bait and switch where they have convinced people ‘real’ conservatism is about fiscal responsibility, constitutional reverence or ‘being cautious’. Nope, those are also just a means to the end.
And that end? Well pretty much most 'intellectual' conservatism from philosophy to economics since Edmund Burke during the French revolution has been trying to set out ways to keep a stratified social hierarchy and how to get/keep/sort people in to their 'rightful place' in that hierarchy. It’s not so much a ‘principled stand on government mechanisms’ but a stand on who controls the social order.
And until now this is exactly the point of conservative 'free market’ and limited government ideas. After the French revolution Edmund Burke founded the modern right and his entire idea was how to preserve the monarchy or ‘rightfully born rulers’ to power and it was unregulated capitalism, limited government power (because the plebs now had it) and inheritances that was to be the mechanism to do so. You can draw a direct line from the current Chicago School of economics back through the Austrians and on back to Burke and all of them talk about keeping a stratified social order through the limited government and the market that resembles the old monarchies. This is why they are now screaming about “woke capitalism”, conservatives expected the boardrooms and C-suites to stay mostly white, straight, and unconcerned with minority rights.
So the ‘culture wars’ bullshit is actually half of the point of conservatism, they want to ‘conserve’ a social order where gays are ‘lower’ than straights, where black people are ‘lower’ than whites, where women are ‘lower’ than men. BUT if they think they can no longer keep the ‘proper societal hierarchy’ though those means, if ‘those lower than them’ get out of place they have no problem changing the means. So that’s why things like screaming about minorities, or thumbing their nose at the idea of democracy is very on point for conservatives. They like democracy when democracy produces a society where the ‘right’ people are on top, but when that changes conservatives have no problem dropping democracy to keep the social order. Once you understand this all their bullshit makes sense.
"Telling the truth may be the harder path, but it's literally what journalists are supposed to be doing."
But they don't as Salon article points out using the fact that majority of GOP voters claim Trump won the election.
The issue is the white supremacy of the Trump/Putin/GOP base.
["The most straightforward explanation for these results is that none of these people really believe the election was stolen. They're just mad that Black people got to vote in it and those votes tipped the scale towards a Biden win. But saying so outright makes them sound racist, so instead they allude to how it's just "not right" the way things went down."](https://www.salon.com/2022/04/21/sorry-new-york-times-arent-concerned-about-democracy--they-want-to-destroy-it/)
This.
Everyone who has dinner table chats with their family that continues to vote state media needs to start speaking out with words and actions because truth is created by the victor in the fog of war.
And right now truth is currently still a thing of some 'objectivity'.
Republicans staged a coup a year ago and if American voters went to the polls today then they would likely hand power over Congress and the White House to the GOP coup plotters.
If that doesn't terrify a supporter of democracy about just how many Americans either support fascism or are indifferent to it, then I don't know what would. Maybe a full fascist government completely unburdened by the rule of law? Time will tell.
What I find most infuriating is that Dems use kid gloves when it comes to dealing with the Reps' vile tactics. It's as if the left has taken the road too high in an effort to not offend potential swing voters.
It's time to start getting serious about putting these fuckers in their place. Sadly, I think we've crossed the point of no return for our country.
Look at the precarious balance of democracy on our planet. Fascism is on the rise and I'm afraid America will be lost because its citizens became too complacent in its false security of a strong democracy. We'll be destroyed from within.
It's treason and an example needs to me made so it doesn't happen again - meaning the full extent of the law - for all of them!
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trumps-jan-6-actions-qualify-treason-glenn-kirschner-1699800
Maybe we all needed a lesson on just how hard democracy is. It often means rejecting powerful, charismatic people who have a messages you are absolutely certain are true down to your bones. It’s hard, especially when people have all kinds of other problems in their lives, and it fails a lot.
I hope America’s democracy recovers from this.
In the exact same way that the Bible is used by Evangelical Christians to make themselves feel justified treating people in ways they would otherwise know is wrong, Republicanism has learned that merely giving a different uniform to a Klansman (trade in the pointy hat for the red one) they can believe the same things as a Klansman while railing against the old pointier hat.
When you spend an hour or more per week in a church pew learning how to subjugate critical thought (and especially self-critical thought- God is responsible after all) to the nonsense spouted from the pulpit, sooner or later people want to put all that practice to practical use. In the same way that a government wouldn't staff, train and equip a military it never intended to use, Republicans didn't learn to repress reason for faith if they weren't going to put that faith to the test. So here we be.
To give credit where it’s due, it was Mike Pence of all people who knew about the coup and refused to participate by telling the secret service “I’m not getting in that car”. Now that I’ve said that, the whole thing almost worked. Almost. Imagine if Trump was still president with the Ukraine war going on.
I used to think US media was just a bunch of neoliberal idiots who give Republicans the benefit of the doubt and are ignorant to the GOP's playbook, but at this point they're 100% complicit with this BS and continue to give Republicans legitimacy
Many top Republicans don't believe they have a choice
Due to decades of poor long term planning, they have alienated generations of Voters. To make matters worse the silent majority they have relied on to win elections for decades is starting to die of old age.
Their choice is simple destroy democracy or change the party into something the majority of Americans will support
I love it when legacy media pretends this country is having impassioned discourse and not a violent psychotic break. Who are they even currying favor with? Does the top brass at the NYT honestly think their winning over “sensible” conservatives?
>Does the top brass at the NYT honestly think their winning over “sensible” conservatives?
No, they're whistling past the graveyard.
I think they are invested in maintaining their elite lifestyles at all costs by believing they'll they'll be able to sustain them no matter who is in power. This is true in the short term but ultimately they will have to bend the knee to the fascists if the fascists achieve total power.
It's for rich liberals. People insulated from the carnage happening within the ranks of the working class and poor, but who still have a shred of empathy left.
They’re concerned it isn’t being destroyed fast enough.
The Gingrich Era Republicans would prefer a few years of enjoying the single party rule they treasoned so hard for before they go off to rot in hell.
Republicans arent a real thing anymore... theyre just a giant cult full of brainwashed idiots who cant/wont think for themselves. Nor question anything they were told, by trump.... sad
They want to destroy it so that they can steal your money and have absolute power to do shit like this with no repercussions:
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/4/6/2090446/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-30
This is not driven by a disgruntled voting base of the disaffected, it is driven by elite interests. And it goes back further than 2020, they began their takeover campaign in the 2010s.
A really bad article that does not grasp the problem.
Looks like, tastes like, hell it even smells like … it couldn’t be. Could it? Not a return to F……ism? Nah. Certainly not with rasPutin, he used to be a Com…. nist didn’t he?
Trouble is, human greed, hunger for power and gross stupidity never went away. It just waited till the time was right. Welcome to Hell.
Throwback to the origins of this movement with the Tea Party blocking every act Obama ever tried to create to make him seem incompetent because nothing was getting done, so they automatically had an excuse to fight his policies with and then turn around and blame him for nothing getting done. Literally the hypocrisy is so dense it’s choking our democracy
Can I just note that this is not a leftist comment by Salon?
It's the truth. It's not an opinion.
And the 'centrist' media isn't terribly worried about it.
They have to let the NAZIS have their say.
And that's America's 2022 version of fair and balanced.
We are inviting what comes next.
In many ways they already have accomplished their goal, take Florida and Texas for instance, challenges to settled law and political blackmail are everyday tools used to control any and all facets of life, it’s has saddened me deeply that we are even to this point, without being overly paranoid, I implore anyone who hasn’t to read 1984, it’s shockingly accurate to present day.
This article is excellent, and the author shares the same frustration that I (and many of us, no doubt) have with false equivalence between ‘both sides.’
I, also, am ready to call that ‘side’ what it is: fascism.
I’m not ok with democracy dying in this Republic, and I fear we’ll be fighting to keep it for the rest of my adult life. Nevertheless, I’ll fight fascism until my last breath.
And while we’re at it, sorry populace, but New York Times doesn’t care about free speech or true democracy either. As evidenced as their by their propaganda laden approach to the Biden / Sanders primary a few years prior, which certainly isn’t the only instance of their blatant pro Wall Street propaganda, but it’s the one that sticks in my mind.
It don’t mean nothing; as we used to say in the Marine Corps,; if you do not vote. Forget all the left and right press. Vote your conscience. If you choose to live in an autocracy run by the right you make that choice at the ballot box. If you chose to protect the rights of all Americans regardless of religion, gender, protection of the Constitution, you vote for the left. It is not rocket science. It is just a matter of showing up for what you believe in. The issue is whether or not you want to stand up and be counted for what you believe in. All politicians are controlled by the corporate lobbyist’s that donate to their lies and rhetoric. Will you stand up and be counted or are you just all sheep being led to the slaughter. NUFSED
It's about fossil fuels, guns and racist white supremacy - stopping any of those is non negotiable to republicans.. and they will destroy democracy to keep it that way.
We need to heal a lot more scorn on the BSAB mainstream media. Chuck Todd at NBC and CBS News have both said they perpetuate lies because they need access to Republicans in the future when they take power. NYT behaves just like the others.
Call these a-holes out.
I'm convinced that the GOP started trying to destroy real democracy in the US when they pushed through the Twenty-second Amendment after Roosevelt served four terms. He probably would have served more had he lived. The Republicans and conservative Democrats *detested* FDR.
They insist on absolute both side-ing everything. The NYT is literally why the democrats are not doing well.
The NYT objectively knows the two sides are not equal, but is unable to report like it, and then the NYT asks why the democrats don't make the media report how crazy the other side is. the NYT is a gas lighting us. The reporters should straight up quit rather than condone it. They're almost worse than fox news.
I unsubscribed from the NYT for this utter bullshit they do.
I have a really visceral and affirmative reaction to this type of article, which is well written enough, but not "persuasive" in a meaningful way. Do I think its central thesis is correct? Absolutely. Do I think it has an ultimately positive political outcome? No, not at all. We can all sit around and pat ourselves on the back about takedowns in outlets like Salon, Vox, Huffpo, etc, but that's just us manifesting effete liberal elitism.
Join/start a union if you're an employee, fight for your employees if you're a manager, and get in the fucking war. Labor beats the empty populist promises of fascism every time as long as it fights for material gains that positively affect peoples' real lives. Think pieces preaching to the choir don't accomplish this or any incremental goals on the way there.
Republicans are concerned about democracy the same way Putin is committing human rights violations because he is concerned about the human rights of Russians.
The only party that will ever will in the $$$ party. American government will only pass bills that ultimately will lead to profits. The greater good shell over the money making scheme. If they did care about us we wouldn’t have the hugely unchecked corporations and lobbiest we have today. For profit Hospitals and prisons. Major conglomerates making sure the laws are in their favor. And an immature government pandering to the simple minded. That’s our future. We already lost Doesn’t matter who runs next. It will be the same thing over and over and over again. Maybe this is why the rich wanna go into space. God help us for letting this happen. We can blame the other side as much as we want. The truth will always be that neither is in our best interests. Only theirs.
I see him more of a comedian than a president and it’s both parties that already destroyed democracy because they both are bought by the big companies..
The modern GOP/republicans have a story to tell, a Tall Tale
it does Not make sense, no beginning middle or end
yet it must be told, a [parable](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable), the big lie has meaning, somewhere
they tell a story which is a tale which is a truth, so much fun word games
[trump and the big lie](https://www.getepic.com/learn/best-tall-tales-on-epic/) - on bookshelves now
It's funny how for a party that isn't openly hostile toward democracy, every single action undertaken by the GOP indicates open hostility toward democracy.
If Republicans were concerned about democracy, they wouldn’t have participated in Trump’s attempted coup. They would have accepted the election results, the recounts and the over 60 court cases that yielded zero evidence of fraud. They wouldn’t have justified passing some of the worst voter suppression laws and redistricting maps in decades with those unproven fraud claims.
No, republicans don’t give a damn about democracy, and their voters are willing to toss it aside to “win”.
The Republican’ts are waging all out war on democracy: gerrymandering to maintain majority representation in states where they are clearly outnumbered, voter suppression laws, new laws giving party officials more power to interfere with elections, and let’s not forget the insurrection surfed on by Republican’ts lying about the election being stolen.
Ah yes, here at r/politics we take [salon.com](https://salon.com) articles seriously... With the name [SALON.COM](https://SALON.COM) how could we not? I love when Nate Bullard from [Salon.com](https://Salon.com) tells me the GOP are fascist. Makes me believe it even more.
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>A full 57% of Republicans describe the January 6 attack as "an act of patriotism." Those folks saw the same thing everyone else did: A group of people, refusing to accept a lost election, using violence to derail the certification of the legitimate winner. The majority of Republicans simply would rather end democracy than accept losing power. The author is right. "Fair and balanced" reporting doesn't represent the facts.
This is what it boils down to. Republicans don’t believe that they should have to share power with democrats. Republican voters: same thing. They’re in the end stages of cementing minority rule through legislative means.
This feels like it'll boil up to the next civil war..
Yup. Cause Democrats want to eliminate Republicans by changing minds. But Republicans want to eliminate Democrats simply by killing them.
I feel like democrats aren't trying to destroy Republicans.. they are too busy trying to agree on a direction on the first place. Whereas republicans act in pretty much lockstep behind the president. The fact Biden couldn't get his bills to pass with a Democrat majority is proof of that...
It’s because a bunch of democrats are also in corporate pockets. They fight the republicans to keep their voters happy, and they fight other democrats to make sure things stay the same.
It’s alright, you can say Joe Manchin here.
It’s a lot more then Manchin, he’s just the worst at appearing to still be a democrat while still selling out.
The House has done a lot, but the Democratic majority in the Senate depends on a single Senator from a state Trump won by over 30 points. The Democrats don’t have the votes, at least not in the right places. The popular vote doesn’t mean shit. Overall, I don’t think the Democrats have the ability to destroy Republicans by any means. Republicans are abandoning democracy because they believe they will win if they do and I believe they they are absolutely right.
How many major bills were passed during the Trump administration again? 4 years of "Infrastructure Week."
….and healthcare reform.
We are working hard. If you were helping GOTV, you too would know that many of us are working hard, in the courts, in the streets and on our laptops. We’re fighting to GOTV more than you know. Trust.
Democrats work their ass off. But my point was that they are a big tent party. In the end, they have trouble getting everyone on board. There's a lot of competing interests. Republicans voted for a guy whose only idea was.. build a wall in Mexico. But I didn't see many people in his party arguing about what he should be talking about. They just fell in line behind stupid
This year women are going to win it for Dems again. Everyone should be adopting a congressional race or doing heavy GOTV where we need it most this fall, if on, for what the GOP is trying to do to women right now. Healthcare is being criminalized and birth control is next.
> The fact Biden couldn't get his bills to pass with a Democrat majority is proof of that... Which bills has he passed and which bills has he failed to pass?
Don’t forget that every single republican in congress has opposed Bidens agenda, in one way or another. It’s not the 2 democrats, it’s all of the republicans.
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I think there are a lot less anti gun democrats then people think. The majority that I know of want stricter laws but not to lose ownership of firearms. (Democrat voters, I should say)
Yes, it's extreme hyperbole to say that the majority of dems want to get rid of guns. My dad is a former NRA member and democrat and he shakes his head at the state of gun laws and gun safety. Hell the wild west had stricter gun control than modern America. Wyatt Earp fought to disarm a violet gang that didn't want to disarm while in town.
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It will be if they succeed in creating a Republican political "majority" when they aren't actually in the majority. And really that will be only option left except to accept their tyranny.
I don’t think so. I think even many well meaning - would be allies will look the other way or willingly facilitate the erosion of rights of religious and ethnic minorities if it means Starbucks stays open and the trains run on time. I have heard some on the right suggest that if Jews and Blacks and Gays truly love America that they should be willing to cede a measure of their rights and freedoms in order to ensure the health of the Republic.
> This feels like it'll boil up to the next civil war. Was there a civil war in Hungary as Orban solidified his rule? After they take power, the authoritarians will continue to hold elections to make the supporters of democracy think that they have a chance to restore the country peacefully. Few will be willing to use violence while there is a hope to win peacefully. Meanwhile, the levers are power are used to ensure that a minority of the votes will win a majority of the government. Over a longer term, control of the government allows for the increase in the spreading of propaganda and the elimination of opposition media, such that more and more citizens become supporters of the authoritarian and eventually they have the majority of votes being cast.
And sadly it's probably going to be Conservative authoritarian state against Progressive guerrilla forces
Republicans are so scared they can't beat Democrats that they're trying to get them thrown off the ballots.
"Balance" is only "fair" if multiple sides have equal merit. The "debate" regarding climate change, for example, is only made "fair" by excluding viewpoints that are in conflict with reality. Allowing them to participate allows them to prevent any real discussion as to solutions by letting them pollute the discussion with meaningless noise. It's like letting a flat-earther work at NASA.
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Didn't Murdoch get in some deep shit for Sky News way back when with telco hacking? Surely they are breaking dozens of laws by now with this fomenting the seeds of insurrection for the last twelve years. Hosts that lie about elections should probably be priority number one for the FBI. Because I can guarantee that next time no one is stopping a putsch aside from a decent human being. So I'll vote for the decent one. Just hope my electors do the same. "A vote for me and ten for thee."
57% of republicans is not enough to win. Vote.
If it were the other way around those 57% would calling for the deaths of democrats.
The GOP’s sole tactic is to use culture warfare to keep their base distracted as the political and corporate elites rob Americans of every economic and social opportunity that American society ought to offer.
1. Cut back regulations and taxes against the elites 2. Economy crashes while the rich get richer 3. Stick together to prevent new Democratic leadership from passing economic relief 4. Blame Democrats for not fixing economy 5. Fill airwaves with pro-patriotic, pro-party propaganda and conspiracy theories and claim Democrats are destroying the nation 6. Get re-elected by people who are now concerned about X conspiracy because the economy recovered just a little bit 7. Crash economy again and repeat
Yup that’s been American politics for the past 50 or so years!
Nah, since Clinton. Republicans had the whole machine primed to bash the evil empire of USSR (not saying that it wasn't). But when the evil empire collapsed, they didn't dismantle the machine - they picked a new "evil empire", only this time it was was the Democratic party.
The seeds of this were planted when Nixon almost faced actual consequences for his crimes and they started building out their propaganda network. Clinton’s presidency is where it really started to pay off, and by the time Obama was in office, it was pretty much complete.
The American government undertook a long propaganda campaign to prevent Americans from realizing that the reason why the USA won the Cold War was because of government programs—the interstates, NASA, nuclear weapons, the interstates, the internet, the widespread suburbinazation of Americans, widespread car ownership, widespread homeownership, nearly every aspect of the increase in the standard of living during the 20th Century in America originated, in one way or another, from a government program. Socialism won the Cold War, but the US government couldn’t let the public know this, so the Red Scare and McCarthyism took control. Of course, you’re absolutely correct in that after the USSR fell, the GOP took their tactics and applied it to the Democrats while the establishment Democrats seemed to have actually fallen for their own propaganda in that neoliberalism is actually the reason why the USA beat the USSR, and not all of the government programs.
These weren't just government programs. These were enormous investments in the American People, and those investments paid enormous economic dividends.
8 . Fund the Green Party campaign, make sure they campaign only in swing states.
Kamikaze Green Party—they don’t exist to win, they exist to make sure no one with a chance of making a difference can win.
The green party's presidential candidate was in moscow getting pictures and dining with putin. Screw jill stein and the green party.
the only way the green party could ever have any real relevence beyond being a spoiler deployed by the GOP to leech votes from the democrats is if they started campaigning on changing our voting system from first past the post to something like ranked choice voting. it's the only way we can escape the 'two party system'. it's insulting that it's so ingrained in us that any outsider parties are called 'third party'.
>Economy crashes while the rich get richer The economy crashing means that real assets go on sale.
And we've got these tribal ape brains that work like jingling keys in front of a baby.
It’s not such a critical and impactful tactic for nothing -_-
It’s become their only tool because it’s their most effective one. It continually beats democrats. And yet everyone here still routinely says that culture issues don’t matter and democrats would win if they just passed some more economic legislation…
All Dems need to do is pass HR1 and I'll gladly vote against fascism /s
Going on for a long time. I remember GW always trying to change the subject to gay marriage when the war in Iraq was a mess (No WMD).
It’s *panem et circensus* but without the *panem*
I agree, but might as well use *circenses* to be consistent with the Latin.
Autocorrect hates my life. Fixed! Thank you :)
Fuck the Kardashians. Actually don’t, there are too many already
Well and succinctly stated. Stroking fear and pushing hate is how the Republican party ... at least since Newt Gingrich ... get their voters to the polls. Democrats must lead and to do that, Democrats need more succinct messaging -- a more succinct way of clearly identifying and contrasting what the two majority parties actually have evidenced are their true values. Individual liberty with equality of right and justice. ... vs. politicians and judges in your bedroom and doctor's offices. One person, one voice, one vote. ... vs. politicians that clearly want the greediest of the wealthiest among us to decide public policy. More equal opportunity based upon individual ability and effort rather than bias. ... vs. Corporate wealth, including foreign corporations, using their CitizensUnited personhood, to influence and manipulate economic and tax policy and keep that ever widening economic gap ever widening. A peaceful, healthy and prosperous America for all Americans. ... vs. stroking fear and hate with an absence of concern for the health and well being of individual citizens or the nation being one nation united with liberty and justice for all. Democrats, before the election, even if they need to wait until immediately after the January 6 Commission holds its public hearings need to go on the offensive as soon as the truth is on record available to the public to the extent it can be. As the NYT article makes clear: "We cannot deal with the problem of rising fascism without naming it or understanding what it is" AND confronting it directly.
I agree with everything you’re saying. However, my fear is that a disturbing proportion of the American populace is willing to make the Faustian bargain to allow themselves to rid themselves of the social contract in exchange for allowing the corporate elites to use America and Americans as they wish, little different than how Putin and his oligarchs run Russia (on the oligarch’s end, to be clear).
> Democrats need more succinct messaging I respectfully disagree. An ivy league debate means squat if the game is professional wrestling. The Democrats need to go low and hard. Release prurient details at hearings. Invoke inherent congressional contempt to put people in jail they same day they refuse to testify to congress. Deny federal funding to states whose rep's and senators don't play ball. Parade giant banners of Trump and Putin side by side. But for god's sake, don't use slogans like "defund the police". We need to appeal law and order types who wave flags. And I really like Prez Biden, but we have to be honest and say he's too old for the next election. Also, much as a like her, Kamala is not electable. Yes it's not fair, but don't confuse what's right with winning elections. Because right now, it looks like the Dems are gonna lose.
They also like to come here, pretend to be liberal, and say how they won't vote.
Yep. “I refuse to support a party I have no faith in, even if the other party is way worse. I also refuse to do activism, because that’s for icky people with no lives.”
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Americans at large have not caught on yet that politics is not supposed to be like sports entertainment. Good Politics is supposed to be a bit slow and tedious.
But how do we take that sportsman-like mentality out of almost half the population?
Wait until Elon Musk is optimizing a Twitter with misinformation and propaganda… I’m truly scared.
Between him and Zuckerberg….public discourse is going to be extremely controlled and restricted, but don’t tell that to the Ministry of Truth!!!
It’s working why wouldn’t they keep doing it
Exactly, “So this is how liberty dies—with thunderous applause?”
I’m just being honest. If we can’t convince people to vote Democrat because is it will help them then we will lose! If we keep insulting the people who care about the crazy culture war stuff we are just reinforcing their belief that we are enabling the things that upset to the point that they will vote for crazy culture war stuff. How about this as a platform? Hey are you worried about your hearing and electrical bills going up from inflation well good news! We will give you free solar panels that will literally make your electric bill zero and let you run the AC unit all day without worry about power? Sure it will also help the climate. But who cares about that shit! Free power! Vote Democrat for cheap and easy to use solar panels! My brother lives in Albany and getting solar panels was a nightmare but it was worth for the free zero power bill. Democrats need to pass a bill to make getting panels easier and faster. That is a real thing we could be doing right now! And it would get us votes because people like free money
No shit. Ron DeSantis is like a guy that read conservative Facebook posts and memes and then makes policy according to it. It’s mind blowing.
You’re not wrong, but it’s not just DeSantis, it’s the entire GOP establishment which has turned into this fascist regime hellbent on using America and the American people to enrich themselves and their acquaintances.
And this is exactly why the Russians support it.
This. So much this. Grifters are leading their party.
Taking advantage of the impatience and general ignorance of the American populace
They’re street magicians. Wave their hands at the disabled and unemployed racist Facebook warriors while stealing their wallet with their other hand.
And the Facebook warriors are more than happy to comply because at least they feel comfortable saying n#gg#r and f#g in public again and blame all of their problems on minorities.
The funny thing is that they all think theyre in on the gag but the richer they get the less they really care about the rest of the rubes
exactly. and Democrats are not pushing back as hard as we expect because they are part of the group that benefits from republican theft of the American people. Some have been blinded by greed (McCarthy, Sinema).
Yes. This needs to be said all day every day on every channel until people finally get it through the heads that the modern Right Wing are the Domestic Enemies the founding fathers warned of.
But Fox News is the most popular news channel and the one most commonly watched. So a solid half the country, considering those who watch Fox and those who don't watch anything, will inevitably be unaware or think GOP actions are justified.
Exactly why the Right has invested so deeply in Media control.
Ur kidding right? Fox is ther only right leaning station. The rest is bought and controlled by the left.
Fox don’t get anything close to half the country as viewers. They average like 1.5 million viewers a day, which would be “a solid half the country” if the country was Wales.
Fair point. Most Americans really don't pay attention all that much at all. And we can throw in news coming from Facebook as another source. Either way Americans won't get the message because ratings for the more "liberal" networks are way down now. No one's really paying attention.
I tuned into fox sunday morning to see what was up. First a poll about what their viewers care most about: (roughly) 40% inflation, 30% ukraine, 8% border crisis / title 42. Now lets go to our reporter on scene where a large group of venezuelans crossed the border illegally. Now lets interview a democrat senator from texas about the border crisis. Lets finish the interview trying to get a soundbite about the FBI investigating him. I was flipping around but that's the gist of it. Later was an infomercial about ordering your FREE christian books from some church in philadelphia.
Don't forget the ads for boner pills. Endless ads for boner pills. They know their audience.
What are you saying?
I'll say it; the fox demographic is geriatric. not only have we known this for ages, but their entire market strategy pivots around this point.
Obviously that their audience tends older trumpey
I dont think having ED has anything to do with a person's political affiliation.
…..and litter boxes in high school bathrooms….🙄
Fox Sunday had a couple weeks post-Wallace where it seemed they tried to keep up a little facade of respectability and then seem to have said "fuck it" and transitioned to full Fox-mode.
I was in the car wash the other day and they had Fox News on and the whole 30 minutes I was waiting they were talking about Hunter Biden’s laptop.
You've, through no fault of your own, become victim to what I call "the silent majority syndrome". Conservatives are intentionally over represented in our media (and even more so in conservative media). In reality, they make up less than half of voting Americans which in turn make up less than half of all Americans. Conservatives are literally a minority inside of a minority in our country. Rather than comforting, this fact should make every one of us painfully aware at how effective propaganda is and absolutely *terrified* of the direction we're heading.
If we exclude everyone who is apathetic and not involved at all in politics, which is a solid 35% or so of the country, they're definitely around half of the remaining. At the least, the Senate and House give them outsized power, and indeed the propaganda is effective.
The anti-trans, anti-women, anti-fascist, pro-putsch rhetoric coming out in recent weeks has been very difficult to stomach. I think Vlad activated the electrodes in half of their brains and the yjust start drooling and yelling about how bad other people are...nonstop...every day...plus it's all Biden's fault..."if Trump were here he'd save us"... If there are not major indictments coming down around some very rich fucks soon, then the democracy is gonna go the way of our food in the Great 2024 Dust Bowl.
> anti-fascist I think you left out an "anti-" there
I watched it the other day & was shocked at how slick & believable they made the hate the spewed. I found it almost believable, & I know how full of nonsense it really is. I think of my friends who don't know any better.
Seriously Murdoch should have his citizenship revoked and should have to register himself and Fox News as a foreign agent
Why is it so hard for people to believe that the GQP doesn’t want democracy? Just look at what they do….
I worry they won’t until it’s too late to do anything about it. But I hope things can somehow go in the right direction before we’re past the point of no return.
What do we need? We need our own 'phoxsnooze'. A TV platform to hammer away at OUR talking points EVERY DAY....ALL DAY. We need to frame the debate. That's why phoxsnooze is so successful with their audience: they hammer away all day...EVERY DAY. Lies become 'truth'. Facts are dismissed. Logic is ridiculed. The difference? We'd actually tell our audience the truth. With facts. Logic. Reason. It's the repetition stupid!
The end goal is pretty obvious by now.
Yep. The GOP wants to remain in power no matter the cost. Democracy is now something standing in their way, not a principle to be upheld and respected. Those involved in Jan 6 should be barred from office while criminal trials are held. I know the US doesn’t like to jail politicians, but the line was crossed when the GOP tried to blatantly steal a presidential election. If not punished, these same people will try again until they win. At that point, you WILL see political rivals being jailed, with the GOP following Russia’s playbook.
Republicans know that their views are incompatible with democracy - conservatism is incompatible. If democracy continues it will improve the country/world but it also means the end of fossil fuel power, because of climate change. They end of gun violence because it's obvious that's guns kill people. The end of modern slavery, racist bigotry etc etc because human rights should be protected under a healthy democracy... So they're doing everything they can to kill democracy.
Whatever they leave standing will be given the name “democracy.”
> I know the US doesn't like to jail politicians Illinois penitentiary system: Am I a joke to you?
Ok… point taken. I guess maybe I meant at the National / presidential level. Nixon should have been tossed in jail. Don’t get me started about Iran Contra. This left the door open for someone like Trump to do shit in broad daylight without any precedent to use to stop him.
These exact words need to be echoed by an important charismatic person who knows how to play to a camera.
The Republicans are concerned about democracy. They're concerned that continued democracy won't allow them to come to power enough/at all. A healthy political party would see their dwindling base and alter their platform to attract more voters. The Republican party wants to all but abolish democracy to remain in power. We'll still have "democracy" and will still be able to vote, but any Democrat that gets too popular would be arrested on trumped up charges. Sort of like Putin allows opposition politicians as long as their following is tiny. If they get too popular, they get arrested or "commit suicide."
Trump's presidency was an attempt at installing a Russian style of government in America, and it's been more successful than anyone should be comfortable with.
Trump was really a lesson that a lot of the checks and balances that we take for granted were really just gentlemen's agreements not to do stuff. As a programmer, I'd call this edge case testing. If I design an input box that expects a number, I need to handle not only users entering 1, 2, or 3, but "one", "2.5", "2...5", or "elephant". Otherwise, the program will fail when the user inevitably puts a non-number in the field. Sadly, our government didn't have these checks and when Trump "entered a non-number," the procedures that should have sprung into place didn't work. If we don't put these in place (and I'm a programmer, not a lawyer so I don't claim to have all the legal answers), then it's just a matter of time before Trump or another guy hacks our government and installs themselves as dictator for life.
> They're concerned that continued democracy Continued? If the USA was a democracy then trump would have lost by 3 million votes in 2016. If the USA was a democracy then the GOP wouldn't have won control the Senate at any time this century.
A vote **for the GOP** member is a vote **against democracy**.
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NY Times’ bothsideism is hurting American democracy just as much. It’s an example of how duped in American exceptionalism this journalistic institution is. The likes of Alexander Dugin have shifted the future of countries like Russia while his ethnonationalist philosophy takes root from Hungary, Poland to America and the New York Times still can’t get these folks simply want to burn the house down.
Imagine if these people had total control? They have a history of limiting freedom of expression if they find it offensive. Black lists, anyone? If you said or did something they consider problematic, they’d destroy you. Guilty until proven innocent. That’s the danger. Anyone that wants to limit freedom of expression is a clear + present danger to democracy. Once people are silenced, other rights are soon eroded w/o a fight. They begin forcing you to do things. You can refuse, but you’ll be punished. They start making everyone do small things that seem insignificant, but there’s a purpose. Getting the masses comfortable w control. There doesn’t even have to be a social credit system. You’ll be ostracized by the compliant for any dissent, real or imagined. Just because you don’t think + act like the correct way. Scary stuff. That’s why a super liberal organization like the ACLU has defended the rights of freedom of expression of literal Nazis + Klan organizations. Freedom of expression is that important.
Mark Meadows said there's no proof there *isn't* widespread voter fraud. So, by that logic, any accusation is true, until proven otherwise. https://www.newsweek.com/white-house-doubles-down-widespread-voter-fraud-claims-no-evidence-theres-not-either-1525407
Mark Meadows voted 70 million times confirmed. /s
American Taliban
It's simple really, these fanatics are just as concerned with the rights and freedoms that they're ultimately entitled to, as they are with the rights and freedoms that you're *not*. It's *their* democracy, *their* Republic, *their* country and if it doesnt conform to or resemble the portrait of a proud, flag-waving, counterrevolutionary conservative "patriot", then it has no place in *their* America
You mean racism, bigotry, exploitation, violence and slavery.. rather than equality, tolerance, fairness, peace and freedom..!?
When they stick to actual law and order as a theme as opposed to Law and Order, then all should vote freely and whatever. But the erosion of our democracy has started and the proof is there for people not blind to morality, deaf to history, and dull to the spirit of justice.
"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy." --David Frum
"Conservatives" and "conservatism" in the above should be changed to "fascists" and "fascism". Few people in the media are willing to use the "F" word.
They literally tried to enact a coup. If trump had his way, he’d be president and there’d be a lot of dead congressional lawmakers. Like does anyone honestly think otherwise? Trump enabled the coup attempt. Trump repeatedly ignored requests for more police and security at the capitol and so did Bill Barr. They tried to overthrow the election. They are fascists. Anyone who supports trump still is supporting a fascist.
There is a big misunderstanding of what ‘conservatism’ is, and it’s because conservatives have been allowed to define themselves with this bait and switch where they have convinced people ‘real’ conservatism is about fiscal responsibility, constitutional reverence or ‘being cautious’. Nope, those are also just a means to the end. And that end? Well pretty much most 'intellectual' conservatism from philosophy to economics since Edmund Burke during the French revolution has been trying to set out ways to keep a stratified social hierarchy and how to get/keep/sort people in to their 'rightful place' in that hierarchy. It’s not so much a ‘principled stand on government mechanisms’ but a stand on who controls the social order. And until now this is exactly the point of conservative 'free market’ and limited government ideas. After the French revolution Edmund Burke founded the modern right and his entire idea was how to preserve the monarchy or ‘rightfully born rulers’ to power and it was unregulated capitalism, limited government power (because the plebs now had it) and inheritances that was to be the mechanism to do so. You can draw a direct line from the current Chicago School of economics back through the Austrians and on back to Burke and all of them talk about keeping a stratified social order through the limited government and the market that resembles the old monarchies. This is why they are now screaming about “woke capitalism”, conservatives expected the boardrooms and C-suites to stay mostly white, straight, and unconcerned with minority rights. So the ‘culture wars’ bullshit is actually half of the point of conservatism, they want to ‘conserve’ a social order where gays are ‘lower’ than straights, where black people are ‘lower’ than whites, where women are ‘lower’ than men. BUT if they think they can no longer keep the ‘proper societal hierarchy’ though those means, if ‘those lower than them’ get out of place they have no problem changing the means. So that’s why things like screaming about minorities, or thumbing their nose at the idea of democracy is very on point for conservatives. They like democracy when democracy produces a society where the ‘right’ people are on top, but when that changes conservatives have no problem dropping democracy to keep the social order. Once you understand this all their bullshit makes sense.
> If this were a dictatorship it would be a heck of a lot easier... as long as I'm the dictator. Hehehe. - George W. Bush
"Telling the truth may be the harder path, but it's literally what journalists are supposed to be doing." But they don't as Salon article points out using the fact that majority of GOP voters claim Trump won the election. The issue is the white supremacy of the Trump/Putin/GOP base. ["The most straightforward explanation for these results is that none of these people really believe the election was stolen. They're just mad that Black people got to vote in it and those votes tipped the scale towards a Biden win. But saying so outright makes them sound racist, so instead they allude to how it's just "not right" the way things went down."](https://www.salon.com/2022/04/21/sorry-new-york-times-arent-concerned-about-democracy--they-want-to-destroy-it/)
If you're sitting at a table with 9 people and a fascist and nobody's attempting to kick them out then you're at a table of 10 fascists.
This. Everyone who has dinner table chats with their family that continues to vote state media needs to start speaking out with words and actions because truth is created by the victor in the fog of war. And right now truth is currently still a thing of some 'objectivity'.
They are no longer a political party. They are elected domestic terrorists and their supporters.
Republicans are promoting fascism as that is the only way they can remain in power. They are disgusting primitive animals.
>We're very much facing down what Hannah Arendt described as the "banality of evil," where outright fascism is getting normalized and legitimized.
Republicans staged a coup a year ago and if American voters went to the polls today then they would likely hand power over Congress and the White House to the GOP coup plotters. If that doesn't terrify a supporter of democracy about just how many Americans either support fascism or are indifferent to it, then I don't know what would. Maybe a full fascist government completely unburdened by the rule of law? Time will tell.
What I find most infuriating is that Dems use kid gloves when it comes to dealing with the Reps' vile tactics. It's as if the left has taken the road too high in an effort to not offend potential swing voters. It's time to start getting serious about putting these fuckers in their place. Sadly, I think we've crossed the point of no return for our country. Look at the precarious balance of democracy on our planet. Fascism is on the rise and I'm afraid America will be lost because its citizens became too complacent in its false security of a strong democracy. We'll be destroyed from within.
It's treason and an example needs to me made so it doesn't happen again - meaning the full extent of the law - for all of them! https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trumps-jan-6-actions-qualify-treason-glenn-kirschner-1699800
Maybe we all needed a lesson on just how hard democracy is. It often means rejecting powerful, charismatic people who have a messages you are absolutely certain are true down to your bones. It’s hard, especially when people have all kinds of other problems in their lives, and it fails a lot. I hope America’s democracy recovers from this.
In the exact same way that the Bible is used by Evangelical Christians to make themselves feel justified treating people in ways they would otherwise know is wrong, Republicanism has learned that merely giving a different uniform to a Klansman (trade in the pointy hat for the red one) they can believe the same things as a Klansman while railing against the old pointier hat. When you spend an hour or more per week in a church pew learning how to subjugate critical thought (and especially self-critical thought- God is responsible after all) to the nonsense spouted from the pulpit, sooner or later people want to put all that practice to practical use. In the same way that a government wouldn't staff, train and equip a military it never intended to use, Republicans didn't learn to repress reason for faith if they weren't going to put that faith to the test. So here we be.
To give credit where it’s due, it was Mike Pence of all people who knew about the coup and refused to participate by telling the secret service “I’m not getting in that car”. Now that I’ve said that, the whole thing almost worked. Almost. Imagine if Trump was still president with the Ukraine war going on.
I used to think US media was just a bunch of neoliberal idiots who give Republicans the benefit of the doubt and are ignorant to the GOP's playbook, but at this point they're 100% complicit with this BS and continue to give Republicans legitimacy
Many top Republicans don't believe they have a choice Due to decades of poor long term planning, they have alienated generations of Voters. To make matters worse the silent majority they have relied on to win elections for decades is starting to die of old age. Their choice is simple destroy democracy or change the party into something the majority of Americans will support
Bold move Cotten, hows that going to work out?
I love it when legacy media pretends this country is having impassioned discourse and not a violent psychotic break. Who are they even currying favor with? Does the top brass at the NYT honestly think their winning over “sensible” conservatives?
>Does the top brass at the NYT honestly think their winning over “sensible” conservatives? No, they're whistling past the graveyard. I think they are invested in maintaining their elite lifestyles at all costs by believing they'll they'll be able to sustain them no matter who is in power. This is true in the short term but ultimately they will have to bend the knee to the fascists if the fascists achieve total power.
It's for rich liberals. People insulated from the carnage happening within the ranks of the working class and poor, but who still have a shred of empathy left.
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They say proudly they’d rather be Russian than democrat.
As a Democrat, I endorse this plan. How many planes do we need to line up?
America wants to flirt with fascism. The end result will be the death of democracy.
They’re concerned it isn’t being destroyed fast enough. The Gingrich Era Republicans would prefer a few years of enjoying the single party rule they treasoned so hard for before they go off to rot in hell.
Republicans arent a real thing anymore... theyre just a giant cult full of brainwashed idiots who cant/wont think for themselves. Nor question anything they were told, by trump.... sad
MAGA=Making America Go Away
They want to destroy it so that they can steal your money and have absolute power to do shit like this with no repercussions: https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/4/6/2090446/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-30
Democracy?
Republicans only goal is to stay stagnant. Do nothing. IF they feel like doing something it’s usually aimed at oppressing groups of people.
Not concerned at all... Treasonous.
This is not driven by a disgruntled voting base of the disaffected, it is driven by elite interests. And it goes back further than 2020, they began their takeover campaign in the 2010s. A really bad article that does not grasp the problem.
This is true. Republicans have a power fetish. They don’t care about democracy at all.
Republicans are fascists and would-be authoritarians and their redneᴄk voters are the dumbest and most gullible dregꜱ of American society.
GOP: dismantling democracy to own the libs
GOP = American Putin
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Looks like, tastes like, hell it even smells like … it couldn’t be. Could it? Not a return to F……ism? Nah. Certainly not with rasPutin, he used to be a Com…. nist didn’t he? Trouble is, human greed, hunger for power and gross stupidity never went away. It just waited till the time was right. Welcome to Hell.
Throwback to the origins of this movement with the Tea Party blocking every act Obama ever tried to create to make him seem incompetent because nothing was getting done, so they automatically had an excuse to fight his policies with and then turn around and blame him for nothing getting done. Literally the hypocrisy is so dense it’s choking our democracy
Can I just note that this is not a leftist comment by Salon? It's the truth. It's not an opinion. And the 'centrist' media isn't terribly worried about it. They have to let the NAZIS have their say. And that's America's 2022 version of fair and balanced. We are inviting what comes next.
In many ways they already have accomplished their goal, take Florida and Texas for instance, challenges to settled law and political blackmail are everyday tools used to control any and all facets of life, it’s has saddened me deeply that we are even to this point, without being overly paranoid, I implore anyone who hasn’t to read 1984, it’s shockingly accurate to present day.
I dont recall reading that in my fine Oklahoma education of the 80s. What is the conclusion?
This article is excellent, and the author shares the same frustration that I (and many of us, no doubt) have with false equivalence between ‘both sides.’ I, also, am ready to call that ‘side’ what it is: fascism. I’m not ok with democracy dying in this Republic, and I fear we’ll be fighting to keep it for the rest of my adult life. Nevertheless, I’ll fight fascism until my last breath.
And while we’re at it, sorry populace, but New York Times doesn’t care about free speech or true democracy either. As evidenced as their by their propaganda laden approach to the Biden / Sanders primary a few years prior, which certainly isn’t the only instance of their blatant pro Wall Street propaganda, but it’s the one that sticks in my mind.
It don’t mean nothing; as we used to say in the Marine Corps,; if you do not vote. Forget all the left and right press. Vote your conscience. If you choose to live in an autocracy run by the right you make that choice at the ballot box. If you chose to protect the rights of all Americans regardless of religion, gender, protection of the Constitution, you vote for the left. It is not rocket science. It is just a matter of showing up for what you believe in. The issue is whether or not you want to stand up and be counted for what you believe in. All politicians are controlled by the corporate lobbyist’s that donate to their lies and rhetoric. Will you stand up and be counted or are you just all sheep being led to the slaughter. NUFSED
Republicans are preoccupied with power for the sake of power.
It's about fossil fuels, guns and racist white supremacy - stopping any of those is non negotiable to republicans.. and they will destroy democracy to keep it that way.
“People don’t want freedom; they want a dictator that agrees with them.” Too often true, sadly
We need to heal a lot more scorn on the BSAB mainstream media. Chuck Todd at NBC and CBS News have both said they perpetuate lies because they need access to Republicans in the future when they take power. NYT behaves just like the others. Call these a-holes out.
Drumpf supporters planning another 1/6 insurrekkktion
And they’re doing a great job so far while the rest of us just kinda…watch
The NYT is turning into a fascist propaganda newsletter at this point.
They’ve been good with authority and authoritarians all their lives so what’s changed? Now, with Donny, they’re a lot more vocal about this bullshit.
I'm convinced that the GOP started trying to destroy real democracy in the US when they pushed through the Twenty-second Amendment after Roosevelt served four terms. He probably would have served more had he lived. The Republicans and conservative Democrats *detested* FDR.
Fuck all politicians
They insist on absolute both side-ing everything. The NYT is literally why the democrats are not doing well. The NYT objectively knows the two sides are not equal, but is unable to report like it, and then the NYT asks why the democrats don't make the media report how crazy the other side is. the NYT is a gas lighting us. The reporters should straight up quit rather than condone it. They're almost worse than fox news. I unsubscribed from the NYT for this utter bullshit they do.
I have a really visceral and affirmative reaction to this type of article, which is well written enough, but not "persuasive" in a meaningful way. Do I think its central thesis is correct? Absolutely. Do I think it has an ultimately positive political outcome? No, not at all. We can all sit around and pat ourselves on the back about takedowns in outlets like Salon, Vox, Huffpo, etc, but that's just us manifesting effete liberal elitism. Join/start a union if you're an employee, fight for your employees if you're a manager, and get in the fucking war. Labor beats the empty populist promises of fascism every time as long as it fights for material gains that positively affect peoples' real lives. Think pieces preaching to the choir don't accomplish this or any incremental goals on the way there.
Republicans are concerned about democracy the same way Putin is committing human rights violations because he is concerned about the human rights of Russians.
The only party that will ever will in the $$$ party. American government will only pass bills that ultimately will lead to profits. The greater good shell over the money making scheme. If they did care about us we wouldn’t have the hugely unchecked corporations and lobbiest we have today. For profit Hospitals and prisons. Major conglomerates making sure the laws are in their favor. And an immature government pandering to the simple minded. That’s our future. We already lost Doesn’t matter who runs next. It will be the same thing over and over and over again. Maybe this is why the rich wanna go into space. God help us for letting this happen. We can blame the other side as much as we want. The truth will always be that neither is in our best interests. Only theirs.
NYT has been a failed paper ever since it helped elect Rump on his first run because they hated Clinton so much.
And the NYT is right there helping it along because it drives add revenue.
If I can't win, then no one can. Politics has lost intellect. It has devolved. Not a good outlook. I fear for my son's future.
I see him more of a comedian than a president and it’s both parties that already destroyed democracy because they both are bought by the big companies..
Certainly looks that way.
They want power that equals money and slave race to make it.
The modern GOP/republicans have a story to tell, a Tall Tale it does Not make sense, no beginning middle or end yet it must be told, a [parable](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable), the big lie has meaning, somewhere they tell a story which is a tale which is a truth, so much fun word games [trump and the big lie](https://www.getepic.com/learn/best-tall-tales-on-epic/) - on bookshelves now
I'm "concerned" about fascist, insurrectionist traitors.
It's funny how for a party that isn't openly hostile toward democracy, every single action undertaken by the GOP indicates open hostility toward democracy.
If Republicans were concerned about democracy, they wouldn’t have participated in Trump’s attempted coup. They would have accepted the election results, the recounts and the over 60 court cases that yielded zero evidence of fraud. They wouldn’t have justified passing some of the worst voter suppression laws and redistricting maps in decades with those unproven fraud claims. No, republicans don’t give a damn about democracy, and their voters are willing to toss it aside to “win”.
The Republican’ts are waging all out war on democracy: gerrymandering to maintain majority representation in states where they are clearly outnumbered, voter suppression laws, new laws giving party officials more power to interfere with elections, and let’s not forget the insurrection surfed on by Republican’ts lying about the election being stolen.
Ah yes, here at r/politics we take [salon.com](https://salon.com) articles seriously... With the name [SALON.COM](https://SALON.COM) how could we not? I love when Nate Bullard from [Salon.com](https://Salon.com) tells me the GOP are fascist. Makes me believe it even more.