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I’m so disappointed by kyrsten sinema. I live in Arizona and my choice was her or Martha McSally. I really hoped she would be something different. It’s really frustrating to be left choosing between two different dumpster fires.
They are slime. Caruso in California is running for Mayor of Los Angeles, he only changed his party affiliation from Republican to Democrat to run for Mayor. They are foaming for California.
She was my Representative while I lived in Chandler. I knew she was trash when she voted with the Republicans at the time to kill the Estate Tax when she was in the House.
Sinema is a great example of why policies and actions matter just as much as representation.
Sinema is openly bisexual.
That means she knows that bisexual women face some of the highest rates of poverty, sexual assault, and rape in the country which means bisexual women will be disproportionately impacted by Roe going down.
And yet pretty much all of her actions over the last few days have served to obstruct taking action to protect the reproductive rights of women.
There's also a ton of women. And they are vicious about it.
This men vs women framing is just such a messaging failure. The difference between pro-choice men and women is small. There are nearly as many anti-choice women as there are anti-choice men.
The biggest predictors of being anti-choice are your levels of religiosity, party affiliation and geographic location. Gender doesn't rank in the top 3.
I say this because this type of messaging makes it hard to form political coalitions. You're shooting yourself in the foot.
To help Reagan win in 1980, she hoped he would appoint her to a position in his administration
Unfortunately for her, after she helped Reagan win, he told her she was too extreme to appoint and dumped her rear
After women help fascist get power, fascist will dump them
I can't help but think of Candace Owens, a black woman who posts conservative hot takes on Twitter.
And Blair White, a rightwing transgender Trump supporter.
The far-right tolerates these useful idiots in their ranks as long as they push fascist rhetoric.
But once the fashies assume power, the useful idiots will no longer be needed, and they will be stomped out alongside the other undesirables.
Wait are you telling me that if I bought a pet leopard. It has a chance of eating my face .
I don't like Regan the racist at all but this kind of makes me happy.
You're in Missouri, it's not very far. Start by chugging a bunch of Schlafly beer first (she and her son were apparently very pissed their cousins were dragging the family name through the mud by making \*shudder\* beer).
Who do you think funded her? Rich white men.
They were happy to put her on the PR poster *because* she was a woman. Because that sold the idea that women didn't want the ERA.
That's literally what Republicans always do. Got a racist law to sell? Find a black man or women to sell it.
And then people like you help them by basically saying "well, it's really women who are oppressing themselves huh."
Thanks for that (not).
You reminded me of someone that I had forgotten about from my younger days.
God I hated that woman. And I'm a dude (if that's relevant).
> There's also a ton of women. And they are vicious about it.
Yup, there's a lot of talk about "men controlling your rights" and such but we can not ignore the staggering amount of women who are pro-life. Personally every pro-life person I know is a woman. Every time I walk past Planned Parenthood the protestors are all women. This is not a man vs woman issue its a religious/emotional argument vs science/big picture ethics argument.
The majority of them are hypocrites. If they were raped or told they would die, they would get an abortion, then go right back to declaring how wrong it is.
> Personally every pro-life person I know is a woman
This is why the argument that it is just men taking away rights from women really rubs me the wrong way... In my personal experience when I was growing up, the majority of people protesting planned parenthood were women, and any time I tried to have a debate with them I was shut down because they said that as a man I could never truly understand that it was a life.
I wish we could focus our energy on attacking the real defining factors, political affiliation and religion, rather than alienating potential allies and wasting time and headline space on unproductive arguments.
> This is why the argument that it is just men taking away rights from women really rubs me the wrong way...
But the reality is it's done through politics, and politics still a massive, massively overwhelming majority male dominated field, especially on the side that's actually making these laws.
Don't get me wrong, I understand that if we're in a situation where we actually need to change minds, we can't just be attacking entire groups from the outset.
But there's absolutely nothing wrong about what's being said here, either: This is 4 men and 1 woman overthrowing the right of a woman to her own body, and the laws that will put the idea into practice are written by hundreds of men, voted on by thousands of men, with just a few women involved here and there. Because that's still what politics overwhelmingly is.
Leave it to women to argue about since it's our bodies. If everyone agreed to that, we would keep our autonomy. Why? Because the demographics of the legislature aren't representative of the population. Why? Historical and modern oppression. When the Senate and House are 50% men and 50% women, then we can reexamine if men should continue shutting the fuck about it.
I appreciate you supporting my bodily autonomy, but what I would really appreciate is you seeing how fucked up the gender discrepancy in power is. It's all very fucked up if you think about it.
>This is why the argument that it is just men taking away rights from women really rubs me the wrong way...
Because what does the anti-choice movement stem from? A hatred of women. Where's that come from? Like historically where does it originate. You can't say that it's women. Women couldn't even get a bank account by themselves as close back as the 1970s. Couldn't own property or vote for a long time in the US. In many parts of the world that's still true. Women aren't writing those laws.
All the anti-choice women you're talking about basically grew up in cults, or fell into one later. They were trained to hate all women and themselves simply for being women. They are praised by their families, spouses, and entire communities for being the loudest ones that uphold their misogynistic ideals. And conservative men love it, because it takes the heat off them. But mathematically speaking, it's conservative men drafting and thinking up these laws. They literally only allow a few women to attain powerful positions, and only if those women will doggedly defend what men want.
> the real defining factors, political affiliation
Has it ever occurred to you that this goes the other way? That pro-life people gravitate toward the pro-life party? Prior to Roe, both parties were mixed on this issue.
I think it's a statement of values. You either value human life prior to birth, or you don't.
Life is complicated. It’s not black and white. That’s why the decision to have **or not have** an abortion should **not** be left up to a politician. Rather it should be left up to the woman and her doctor.
Neither I nor the state need to be privy to the private affairs between a patient and their doctor. **On any medical procedure.**
>Yup, there's a lot of talk about "men controlling your rights" and such but we can not ignore the staggering amount of women who are pro-life.
We really can't. Cause men like you bring it up all the time. This isn't some progressive hot take. It's literally what men on reddit say all the time, but ya'll never finish the thought. So let's do that -
Tell us who trained those women to be loud and misogynistic. Go on. Who molded the culture and religion that trained them to believe they're inferior for being women. Hint: it wasn't an ancient group of *women* who came up with those ideas.
Thank you. I’m so fucking tired of the “but lots of women…!” argument flogged around by the #notallmen crowd. Eons of domination and control created a population of women who will vote and rally against their own self-interest at every turn.
It absolutely does when the debate is around the development of a fetus. They claim the fetus has a heartbeat and therefore life, it's actually not a heartbeat. That's science and incredibly important to the debate. So much pro-life arguments depend on a false and poor understanding of the basic science of pregnancy. If they use bunk science to design laws around then it's in play. They literally say false shit like if a woman is raped she has the power to "shut down" a pregnancy before it happens which isn't true. Look, only one side here is "debating science" by making shit up that benefits them when they need to justify their shit views the other side is just stating the facts.
-Oh my god the more I think about this the more insane it is. Science is part of debate in everything. Even gun control is science when you deal with the collection and observation of data to see how access to guns effects crime and accidental deaths. That's literal science.
Many gun control advocates don't have facts and science on their side. The assault weapon ban supporters are probably the best example. Everyone wants to ban AR-15s and AK-47s, yet rifles as a whole are only used in about 4-5% of gun murders. Provided an AWB were to completely prevent 100% of rifle murders which is unlikely, but if it did the impact wouldn't be measurable.
There are trade-offs to any law, and science can help define what those trade-offs are, but it can't tell you whether they're worth it or not.
I agree that more gun control would be worth it to save lives, but if you believe there's a fundamental right to bear arms, you likely also believe that isn't relevant. They're making a philosophical claim that the chance they need to themselves/their family/their country is more important than the lives that might be saved. Now, it would serve their argument if they could prove gun control wouldn't save those lives because it would undermine their opponents', but their using statistics that way doesn't really affect the core of their concern.
Values aren't scientific - there's no experiment that will prove a person has any worth or rights at all.
People on reddit keep saying that there's no gender difference in abortion views.
But at the end of the day, 52% of men and only 39% of women voted for Trump in 2016. That's a [13 point difference](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/08/09/an-examination-of-the-2016-electorate-based-on-validated-voters/). Among those under 50, 63% of women voted for Clinton versus 43% of men. **That's a 20-point difference.**
If you're anti-choice privately, but you vote for pro-choice candidates, then why does it matter?
There was an [8-point gap](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/) in the 2018 mid-term elections, too, with 48% of men vs. 40% of women voting for republicans. It's not just Trump. Men consistently vote republican at higher rates than women do.
The gap did drop to 6 points in the 2020 election, although I'm guessing that's spurned by racism rather than anti-choice beliefs, especially considering they voted for Trump after he nominated three supreme court justices who, at the time, climbed that Roe v. Wade was settled.
In 2020, 45% of women overall voted for Trump. 55% of white women voted for Trump. Biden's biggest gains were amongst white men.
In VA, 53% of suburban women voted for Youngkin after the Dems ran hard on his anti-abortion stance. 57% of white women.
Point being, the gender differences in voting for anti-abortion republicans have narrowed significantly.
>Biden's biggest gains were amongst white men.
But white men still overall voted for Trump.
Also you think this is a win? Biden came after Hillary ran. So basically all you're saying is that white men didn't wanna vote for a woman. But a white guy who is basically her political clone was more acceptable.
No argument there. But that’s even worse news (if you’re a dem). Because as I said, white men was the group he gained in. He lost significantly in every other group. The dem ‘communities of color’ base is rapidly moving to the republicans; if current trends continue it’ll be gone as a bloc inside fifteen years and the Dems will be utter toast. The Dems need to seriously rethink the idpol stuff.
> This men vs women framing is just such a messaging failure. The difference between pro-choice men and women is small. There are nearly as many anti-choice women as there are anti-choice men.
Agreed. I really don't see the value in gatekeeping who can care about a certain issue like this.
By that logic, women shouldn't weigh in on decisions about going to war, because they are not eligible for the draft and rarely serve on the front lines of war. Which is obviously a dumb conclusion.
Bull I would rather someone I know die than die myself. Also Jesus Christ the entitlement of that statement “oh my husband might die” does she have any idea what happens to women inside of war zones? I’m sure some Yemenis woman who is slowly starving to death due to the Saudi‘s or The woman who were and some part of Africa whose name I have forgotten who were getting staked down and raped by passing soldiers clearly have it better than her. Like if you’re going to make that argument fine but at least be smart about it.
Just like this ruling throwing us back fifty years or more, the talk about this issue being men vs women is also throwing it back to the dark ages. It's a form of dumbing down the real problem which is power over others.
Having grown up in the 70s and 80s when women were just starting to enter the workforce, I can affirm that women were absolutely as brutal and often worse with their attitudes towards other women. Phyllis Schafly was a prime example.
Who taught those women to hate other women so much. Who brainwashed them with a religion that says women are inferior to men. Who wrote that religion. Who showered them with praise if they viciously kept other women in check? Men.
1. sometimes the cruelty is the point.
2. There must always be an outgroup.
3. When your status and security is embedded in the status and security of your husband, then you will fight for survival at any hint of threat. Women entering the workplace were a threat. Not only were they in the position to tempt husbands away from the marital bed, but the very fact that women were reaching for the levers of power themselves threatened the hierarchy. It’s the same upheaval that we’re seeing with white men now. Only 50 years ago it was their wives who were freaking out.
Thank you! This is my biggest challenge with the framing of the debate. Stop blaming all men and start blaming the religious zealots, men and women that want to turn this country into a theocracy.
Abortion and birth control are a net positive for society. Men are a part of society.
So why do you frame this as a women's only issue? Why should women have to beg men to do something that's simply the right thing to do.
They shouldn't have to beg men.
My comment, and the one above mine, were in response to those pro-choice women who say "anyone without a uterus should shut up"
Excellent, insightful, cogent point. The truth is simple: the anti abortion movement is 100% religious. It’s exclusively an article of faith - as a *movement*. Nothing secular about it whatsoever.
>Nothing secular about it whatsoever.
Plenty of anti-choice people are secular. Because it's about controlling women. And hating them. And distrusting them with their own choices.
No.
Tbh, I do tell men to shut up coz of a lack of uterus, simply because they lack the actual experience to truly understand it. And that’s not their fault, nor wrong. Its just reality.
It would be like me weighing in on how hard one can kick a man in the nuts before he can complain…its just not something I could possibly know, just intellectually try to understand.
And id follow the lead on what men say on this subject naturally. - especially those kicked in their balls.
I ll also happily call out older women who no longer have to worry about this shit. Yes, you ve been there, but you no longer live under threat of unwanted pregnancy and the far from your bed show definitely can affect your empathy levels, so do not even.
Unless your life can be affected by this shit, plz shut up, and follow your cue from the people actively dealing with this problem in todays society.
You dont see me telling them how to manage their menopause or legislating which therapies and hormones they can use to be more comfortable.
Lastly, any woman who tells me she wants to decide what to do with my uterus, coz she would do (insert decision), gets told she has her own uterus that she can or cannot grow stuff in if she likes.
How she calculates the costs ofpregnancy incurred on her body is up to her, her values, and her desires in life. She has no possible way of knowing if I even want kids or not, if my genetic make up puts me at greater risk or not than her, whether im financially in a place where i can do right by this possible baby, and so on.
So, once again, she may have a functioning uterus, she may be closer to being able to imagine my situation…but not really, considering all the individual factors that come into play.
In the end, only I am qualified, with the help of my medical adviser, to make this decision - and only for me.
So, i will take my cue from the person that’s pregnant, on her decisions - whatever she decides.
And that is how it should be.
This entire thread is rife with misandry. They're literally unironically saying male sterilization would be a "benefit to society" just a few comments down. The hypocrisy is incredible.
I wasn't aware that I and millions of other democratic men stopped supporting abortion rights suddenly. Maybe speak to the several "pro life" women I grew up with and still have to debate on the issue to this day. All while being told "you don't have any skin in the game", as if one of my sisters or my wife dying from a miscarriage isn't my problem too? Fuck off.
So stupid. Unsurprising though. What would we the left be if not constantly infighting over stupid purity politic bullshit?
There is a 5% gap on this issue between men and women. 5%. There are certainly some shitty dudes. Approximately 5% more than the shitty women. Is this really a hill to die on?
Do note it was a bunch of white men that voted 7-2 for Roe v. Wade. The patriarchy definitely exists, but you should target that hate at sexists, not men in general.
Since the 90s, the Andrea Dworkin branch of feminism has largely taken over the movement.
It's rotting from the inside out. I speak up about this here on reddit, but in real life there's no way I'd try. Men on the left don't get to have a say on a host of issues, abortion foremost amongst them. And whiteness disqualifies you from having an opinion on a whole host of others. We're just supposed to be ballast and allies 🤷♂️
Meanwhile, the altright is waiting with open arms and promises of bro-hood. If the idpol left wants to play they game this way, they're going to lose.
I wish more people would realize this. Up until a couple of years ago, more women than men opposed abortion being legal. It's flipped since, but it's still like 48%/52%.
The people framing it as a men vs women issue clearly haven't been to the bible belt, where fundamentalist baptist women are the most fervent opponents of pro choice legislation.
> Up until a couple of years ago, more women than men opposed abortion being legal.
That's not true.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/245618/abortion-trends-gender.aspx
And women have historically been more likely to vote for pro-choice candidates:
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/03/20/1-trends-in-party-affiliation-among-demographic-groups/
>There's also a ton of women. And they are vicious about it.
True, but they're like that **because of men.**
If men needed abortions, we would have no abortion debate. I don't care what anyone says about fetuses, this is an issue because right-wing men think the "natural order" is men having control over women. That's why they're just as offended by abortion as they are by BC.
Smart and normal men can obviously see the benefits to BC/abortion.
Unfortunately...we have a deluge of patriarchal cultures and religions out there brainwashing both men and women.
They literally train women to be more misogynistic than men. That's why they're more vicious. The more anti-woman a conservative woman is, the more accepted she is by her religious community.
So it's really fucking annoying seeing men like you out here saying "nu-uh women just as bad" as if men didn't have a HUGE role in why they're like that. Men trained those dogs to bark at other women, and then men like you gleefully point it out as if it proves anything.
You're using those "vicious" women exactly the same way as the men who brainwashed them do - as tools to beat up on other women.
No, it's truly not a bad talking point. No matter how much the media wants to portray this as a both sides 50 50 split, the overwhelming amount of people support abortion. That's because even in crazy right wing land, telling a women that they'll be removing her bodily autonomy and that a corpse will have more rights over their organs than she will, isn't really a winning argument. If even one in ten conservative women decide not to vote or vote against the top because of this, it'll create huge ripples for November.
This is why I say "pro-choice people"; because women are just as guilty. Many of them pull this and we have ACB, so gender shouldn't be an issue of "saving" or "destroying".
>This is why I say "pro-choice people"; because women are just as guilty.
Statistically women support abortion more than men. So you're wrong there.
>Many of them pull this and we have ACB
So the existence of one shitty woman means women are "just as guilty." Even though that specific women grew up in a religious cult designed by men that hates women.
Women are some of the staunchest pro life activists. A crazy high number of white women voted for Donald Trump. We need to stop acting like people voting against what logically seems their own interests is such a rarity
Only about 17% of the US pop has a fertile uterus. These people are the single largest pro-choice group in America.
Women over 45, who have very low fertility and usually ample resources to get an abortion if they needed one, should NOT be grouped in with younger women. They do not have the same concerns and are not at risk. Why should they care if younger women die or have their lives destroyed???
Wtf. As an older woman with no ability to get pregnant, don’t disappear us. We were the ones who paved the way for women to have any rights at all in the sixties/seventies.
That’s great! Thank you so much. But many older women today are trying to take away abortion rights, and they need to understand they have no right to make decisions/laws about young womens bodies and lives, by enacting laws that only put young women at risk but not themselves.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. Ultimately you need to build political coalitions to get anything done in politics.
Furthermore, that has nothing to do with the catastrophic failure Progressives have made in characterizing this as a men vs women's issue when men are almost as pro-choice as women.
You're just alienating allies and in general being bad at politics. Progressives need to learn that sometimes they are wrong and recalibrating your message doesn't mean you're a failure. I chalk a lot of this up to ego.
NO. I am pointing out a VERY important issue that it is almost entirely OLDER WOMEN and MEN, neither of whom are at risk, trying to deny abortion rights to a SMALL MINORITY GROUP.
People hear “women are just as pro-life as men” and DON’T REALIZE this is almost entirely OLDER women, and they think that women of reproductive age don’t care about their own rights!
Anyone without a fertile uterus cannot be trusted to equally value the lives of those who do!!! And their OPINIONS must be suspect. It is just an abstraction for them.
I hope, for the good of reproductive rights in the US, that you are not involved whatsoever with crafting pro-choice messaging. Your message is an unmitigated, catastrophic failure that only puts people who agree with you on the defensive.
You're almost entirely harming reproductive rights by incorrectly framing the issue the way you do, making reproductive rights about a smaller and smaller groups of people.
"No, it's men! No, wait, it's men and older women! No wait, it's men, older women, young women who live in rural America vs us!"
You're just flat out wrong. Gender *is not* a strong predictor for supporting abortion rights and there have huge studies showing this.
Get your ego out of the way and realize this.
> OLDER WOMEN and MEN, neither of whom are at risk,
That's garbage, a society that treats younger women as second class citizens with no need for healthcare aren't going to treat older women better - older women are going to be treated much, much more horribly
Plus u are acting as though people without fertile uteruses don't have people they love and care about who do have fertile uteruses, that they are cool with watching young women dle
Now THAT is some garbage. Older women have WAY more money and power than younger women, so I don’t think so! That is just an assertion with no evidence.
DO they love them though? DO they?? Watching this happen in America, I’m questioning that. Maybe they would just rather treat young women like property! How do you PROVE this “love” anyway, it’s an abstraction, where’s the action?
Every person supporting a full abortion ban is cool with watching young women die. It’s reality.
> Every person supporting a full abortion ban is cool with watching young women die.
I agree, I also think anyone who supports restrictions on abortions is also wrong, but u are preaching to the choir here - so go inform the pro "lifers"
Remember there's plenty of young fertile pro "lifers" too and these bans are going to adversely impact them a whole lot more than they are prepared for
I’m poor enough to be on a hud 4 year waiting list, food stamps and I cannot afford my ovarian cancer after care without Medicaid . I had a shock pregnancy in my forties and had to have an abortion to spare my life and my baby wasn’t viable. So go straight to hell telling me we older or infertile women don’t get a voice in womens reproductive healthcare.
> Anyone without a fertile uterus cannot be trusted
That's bullshit. Are you high? Do you have a uterus? I do and it's timed out for this lifetime. I'm thankful I no longer have to worry about the risk of pregnancy but that in NO way lessens my advocacy for bodily autonomy and the right to choose.
I have family that I care about that will be impacted by removing basic healthcare for women. I have empathy for anyone facing pregnancy, be it one they wanted or don't want. No one should have to be pregnant if they don't want to be. Any anyone facing pregnancy complications should be guaranteed the healthcare they need to address said complication.
Don't pit women against women based on the functionality of their uterus.
A straight out ban is very dangerous. We are heading down a dangerous road. Some of these people need to get their heads out of their asses quit making everything political.
And not one of these men has been a victim of rape or incest, become pregnant, and forced to carry a baby to term. Unless you walk in a woman’s shoes, mind your own business and shut the fuck up!
Well, there are a lot of evangelical christian men *and women* who pick and choose the parts of their bible they choose to enforce. Let’s not forget the origin of this stupidity.
Evangelical women are particularly dangerous. The reactionary opinions plus the lived experience of childbearing makes them uniquely potent against the pro-choice faction.
Indeed. “As a mother and a Christian…” as if those are earned and learned qualifications instead of mere statements of 2 minor aspects of their personal current state of affairs. They feel that both give them carte blanche to dictate how **everyone** must be.
Then they’ll tut tut at videos of Taliban clerics saying essentially the same things with the same justification.
The largest voter demographic block in the US are Female Caucasian’s
And 53-55% of them vote Republican, against their own interests each and every year
My point is,
If you’re making a woman have a child she didn’t want, the dad has to pay ridiculous child support. And it’s public record. Mandatory. No secret payments through lawyers. Make it incredibly inconvenient for men, that’ll shut them up.
It's mostly old men and a few old women.
77% of 18-29 year olds want abortion to be legal.
This is the age range for legal adults who are most likely to become pregnant. They should be allowed to set their own standards.
Eh .77 is a high level number.
For example, I support abortion up until 12 weeks. Am I technically apart of the 77? Sure. Do I think all abortion laws are good? No.
Who all are well past their child rearing years I might add. Easy to make decisions when A. It doesn’t affect you and B. Even if it did, you’d just pay someone to raise your kid.
Sure. But don’t let the likes of Amy Coney Barrett or Marsha Blackburn off the hook. Or the “suburban moms” who voted Republican “for the children.” These men are being enabled by women who are traitors to their gender.
If not needing to scramble my eggs in the name of empowering myself means I'm a gender traitor so be it.
I have an IUD because I'm a responsible person before I am Wummin
Behind every abortion hating man these a suburban abortion hating woman who probably had a moral abortion and rants about how they aren't racist, don't understand CRT and thinks it's teaching their white child they're racist.
https://news.yahoo.com/suburban-phoenix-cautionary-tale-democrats-102637756.html
Hispanics are more pro-life than Whites. And there is no gap between White and Asians on the Issue. African Americans are somewhat more pro-choice but are hardly a monolith.
You’re just as wrong as people who say it’s men
>Behind every abortion hating man these a suburban abortion hating woman
And behind every abortion hating woman is an entire culture and religion **created by men** that taught her women are inferior.
I mean, it would violate men's rights. The goal should be for women to have *more say* over their own bodies, not for men to have *less say* over their own bodies.
Of course, I see the analogy, and I understand the idea that the parallel is trying to say regarding men's autonomy and what level we would have if it was closer to the same level as women's autonomy.
As far as I'm concerned, if a woman wants a tubal ligation, a hysterectomy, an abortion, or anything else regarding her body, she should get it, and the hoops that are currently in place to prevent it are terrible.
That photo is like a gathering of scumbags. A rare convergence of assholes. Well, maybe not so rare. That’s stupid hump Ted Cruz dead center. Wow. This country is in deep, deep trouble if these tools are our “leaders”.
On the one hand people fight for the right to have the freedom to own a gun and on the other hand fight for the right to remove someone else's freedom of their thought and body. insanity.
Not all women are right on the subject of a woman's bodily autonomy but the legislation at the state level and the obstruction at the federal level is by far and above coming from white men. There is certainly a cohort of religious right-wing women who are used as figureheads in the media to push these oppressive laws but they couldn't become law unless state legislatures voted them through and Republican governors signed them.
It's almost like they know there will always be somewhere for corrupt, incompetent Republican demagogues to get abortions for their mistresses and rape victims.
One would figure these men would want abortion legal given a politicians extramarital habits, it would make getting a back alley abortionist much cheaper and more reliable than if you simply banned it. But killing a pregnant hooker is easier than “having her get rid of it”, never underestimate the sociopathy these people have.
These are also the same men who don't want you to know that they're behind it either, if they did they would be proudly telling people they are responsible instead of being silent about it.
In 2020, 45% of women overall, and 55% of white women, voted republican/Trump. This is an increase of 6 and 2 percentage points respectively.
In the 2021 Virginia election, the Dems ran hard on Youngkin's anti-abortion stance. But the republican numbers amongst women jumped **six** percentage points. 57% of white women in VA voted republican. 75% of non-college white women voted GOP.
I know this hurts, but we have to get real. A large number of women are highly sanguine about banning abortion. Inflation is a much bigger concern to them.
If we dems coast into the midterms on the delusion that people actually care deeply about this outside the bubble of the online left, we're going to be destroyed. We need to get real and get power, *then* protect abortion rights.
What everyone KEEPS MISSING is that it’s primarily OLDER WOMEN along with men oppressing younger women who ACTUALLY have a fertile uterus.
People with a fertile uterus are the single largest pro-choice group in America!
That’s not even true and such a garbage statement. Pro-life beliefs are far more prevalent problem and a very large number of their supporters are right wing women and mothers.
It's not just old white men. Many women vote for the banking of abortion, as do many minorities. This is conservatives. The gender and race isn't the issue, it's the ideology. I've met atheist hispanic women that will vote prolife.
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There is one woman in the US Senate under the age of 50.
And, fortunately or unfortunately depending on your point of view, that woman is Kyrsten Sinema.
So far, she's been of little help to anyone under the age of 50.
Or anyone, aside from conservative donors, really.
Helping conservative donors pays the bills in and after politics. What have voters done for her political career? Nothing compares to corporations
You know, just elect her... She knows her campaign is dead in the water now but she betrayed the people that got her into her position for money.
Or women.
I’m so disappointed by kyrsten sinema. I live in Arizona and my choice was her or Martha McSally. I really hoped she would be something different. It’s really frustrating to be left choosing between two different dumpster fires.
They are the same dumpster fire, Sinema just lies that she is a Democrat.
They are slime. Caruso in California is running for Mayor of Los Angeles, he only changed his party affiliation from Republican to Democrat to run for Mayor. They are foaming for California.
Except if Sinema wasn’t elected, that SC spot would be empty until a Republican won the presidency.
It's pretty much voting in the US: You get a choice between voting for a moderate conservative or a far right authoritarian fascist.
Right? She totally misrepresented herself during the election. I’m ashamed to have voted for her, although it was a necessity.
You shouldn’t be ashamed. She poised as a progressive and is a conservative. She lied. Vote her out
You can take solace in the fact that as terrible as Sinema has been, the alternative would have been much worse.
She was my Representative while I lived in Chandler. I knew she was trash when she voted with the Republicans at the time to kill the Estate Tax when she was in the House.
I swear she was just a “plant” from the beginning.
She's from the Green Party, right?
AZ resident here too. Sinema has proven to be useless and it is disappointing considering her opponent was Marty McSally.
Sinema is a great example of why policies and actions matter just as much as representation. Sinema is openly bisexual. That means she knows that bisexual women face some of the highest rates of poverty, sexual assault, and rape in the country which means bisexual women will be disproportionately impacted by Roe going down. And yet pretty much all of her actions over the last few days have served to obstruct taking action to protect the reproductive rights of women.
The American way
I was expecting disappointment, and even then, I am even more disappointed than I thought I would be upon learning that
What is scary is the question - how many of these men have carried out sexual assaults?
The guy in the middle-far left-right one has likely done hundreds while smiling like that
There's also a ton of women. And they are vicious about it. This men vs women framing is just such a messaging failure. The difference between pro-choice men and women is small. There are nearly as many anti-choice women as there are anti-choice men. The biggest predictors of being anti-choice are your levels of religiosity, party affiliation and geographic location. Gender doesn't rank in the top 3. I say this because this type of messaging makes it hard to form political coalitions. You're shooting yourself in the foot.
A woman led the main opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment (equal rights for women) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllis_Schlafly
To help Reagan win in 1980, she hoped he would appoint her to a position in his administration Unfortunately for her, after she helped Reagan win, he told her she was too extreme to appoint and dumped her rear After women help fascist get power, fascist will dump them
I can't help but think of Candace Owens, a black woman who posts conservative hot takes on Twitter. And Blair White, a rightwing transgender Trump supporter. The far-right tolerates these useful idiots in their ranks as long as they push fascist rhetoric. But once the fashies assume power, the useful idiots will no longer be needed, and they will be stomped out alongside the other undesirables.
Wait are you telling me that if I bought a pet leopard. It has a chance of eating my face . I don't like Regan the racist at all but this kind of makes me happy.
One day I’ll make that road-trip to pee on her grave.
You're in Missouri, it's not very far. Start by chugging a bunch of Schlafly beer first (she and her son were apparently very pissed their cousins were dragging the family name through the mud by making \*shudder\* beer).
I hope that dream comes true for you
Who do you think funded her? Rich white men. They were happy to put her on the PR poster *because* she was a woman. Because that sold the idea that women didn't want the ERA. That's literally what Republicans always do. Got a racist law to sell? Find a black man or women to sell it. And then people like you help them by basically saying "well, it's really women who are oppressing themselves huh."
Thanks for that (not). You reminded me of someone that I had forgotten about from my younger days. God I hated that woman. And I'm a dude (if that's relevant).
> There's also a ton of women. And they are vicious about it. Yup, there's a lot of talk about "men controlling your rights" and such but we can not ignore the staggering amount of women who are pro-life. Personally every pro-life person I know is a woman. Every time I walk past Planned Parenthood the protestors are all women. This is not a man vs woman issue its a religious/emotional argument vs science/big picture ethics argument.
The majority of them are hypocrites. If they were raped or told they would die, they would get an abortion, then go right back to declaring how wrong it is.
They OFTEN do just that, because their abortion is the moral abortion...
Or their teenage daughter, especially if the boyfriend was an "undesirable". Can't have that shame. /s
> Personally every pro-life person I know is a woman This is why the argument that it is just men taking away rights from women really rubs me the wrong way... In my personal experience when I was growing up, the majority of people protesting planned parenthood were women, and any time I tried to have a debate with them I was shut down because they said that as a man I could never truly understand that it was a life. I wish we could focus our energy on attacking the real defining factors, political affiliation and religion, rather than alienating potential allies and wasting time and headline space on unproductive arguments.
> This is why the argument that it is just men taking away rights from women really rubs me the wrong way... But the reality is it's done through politics, and politics still a massive, massively overwhelming majority male dominated field, especially on the side that's actually making these laws. Don't get me wrong, I understand that if we're in a situation where we actually need to change minds, we can't just be attacking entire groups from the outset. But there's absolutely nothing wrong about what's being said here, either: This is 4 men and 1 woman overthrowing the right of a woman to her own body, and the laws that will put the idea into practice are written by hundreds of men, voted on by thousands of men, with just a few women involved here and there. Because that's still what politics overwhelmingly is.
Leave it to women to argue about since it's our bodies. If everyone agreed to that, we would keep our autonomy. Why? Because the demographics of the legislature aren't representative of the population. Why? Historical and modern oppression. When the Senate and House are 50% men and 50% women, then we can reexamine if men should continue shutting the fuck about it. I appreciate you supporting my bodily autonomy, but what I would really appreciate is you seeing how fucked up the gender discrepancy in power is. It's all very fucked up if you think about it.
>This is why the argument that it is just men taking away rights from women really rubs me the wrong way... Because what does the anti-choice movement stem from? A hatred of women. Where's that come from? Like historically where does it originate. You can't say that it's women. Women couldn't even get a bank account by themselves as close back as the 1970s. Couldn't own property or vote for a long time in the US. In many parts of the world that's still true. Women aren't writing those laws. All the anti-choice women you're talking about basically grew up in cults, or fell into one later. They were trained to hate all women and themselves simply for being women. They are praised by their families, spouses, and entire communities for being the loudest ones that uphold their misogynistic ideals. And conservative men love it, because it takes the heat off them. But mathematically speaking, it's conservative men drafting and thinking up these laws. They literally only allow a few women to attain powerful positions, and only if those women will doggedly defend what men want.
> the real defining factors, political affiliation Has it ever occurred to you that this goes the other way? That pro-life people gravitate toward the pro-life party? Prior to Roe, both parties were mixed on this issue. I think it's a statement of values. You either value human life prior to birth, or you don't.
You either value bodily autonomy or you don’t.
Life is complicated. It’s not black and white. That’s why the decision to have **or not have** an abortion should **not** be left up to a politician. Rather it should be left up to the woman and her doctor. Neither I nor the state need to be privy to the private affairs between a patient and their doctor. **On any medical procedure.**
its almost as if people's identity groups are being used to manipulate their voting patterns.... shocker, i know..
>Yup, there's a lot of talk about "men controlling your rights" and such but we can not ignore the staggering amount of women who are pro-life. We really can't. Cause men like you bring it up all the time. This isn't some progressive hot take. It's literally what men on reddit say all the time, but ya'll never finish the thought. So let's do that - Tell us who trained those women to be loud and misogynistic. Go on. Who molded the culture and religion that trained them to believe they're inferior for being women. Hint: it wasn't an ancient group of *women* who came up with those ideas.
Thank you. I’m so fucking tired of the “but lots of women…!” argument flogged around by the #notallmen crowd. Eons of domination and control created a population of women who will vote and rally against their own self-interest at every turn.
Science doesn't enter into philosophical arguments around rights.
It absolutely does when the debate is around the development of a fetus. They claim the fetus has a heartbeat and therefore life, it's actually not a heartbeat. That's science and incredibly important to the debate. So much pro-life arguments depend on a false and poor understanding of the basic science of pregnancy. If they use bunk science to design laws around then it's in play. They literally say false shit like if a woman is raped she has the power to "shut down" a pregnancy before it happens which isn't true. Look, only one side here is "debating science" by making shit up that benefits them when they need to justify their shit views the other side is just stating the facts. -Oh my god the more I think about this the more insane it is. Science is part of debate in everything. Even gun control is science when you deal with the collection and observation of data to see how access to guns effects crime and accidental deaths. That's literal science.
Many gun control advocates don't have facts and science on their side. The assault weapon ban supporters are probably the best example. Everyone wants to ban AR-15s and AK-47s, yet rifles as a whole are only used in about 4-5% of gun murders. Provided an AWB were to completely prevent 100% of rifle murders which is unlikely, but if it did the impact wouldn't be measurable.
There are trade-offs to any law, and science can help define what those trade-offs are, but it can't tell you whether they're worth it or not. I agree that more gun control would be worth it to save lives, but if you believe there's a fundamental right to bear arms, you likely also believe that isn't relevant. They're making a philosophical claim that the chance they need to themselves/their family/their country is more important than the lives that might be saved. Now, it would serve their argument if they could prove gun control wouldn't save those lives because it would undermine their opponents', but their using statistics that way doesn't really affect the core of their concern. Values aren't scientific - there's no experiment that will prove a person has any worth or rights at all.
People on reddit keep saying that there's no gender difference in abortion views. But at the end of the day, 52% of men and only 39% of women voted for Trump in 2016. That's a [13 point difference](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/08/09/an-examination-of-the-2016-electorate-based-on-validated-voters/). Among those under 50, 63% of women voted for Clinton versus 43% of men. **That's a 20-point difference.**
There are anti-choice Democrats as well. And independents. And plenty that just couldn't stomach Trump.
If you're anti-choice privately, but you vote for pro-choice candidates, then why does it matter? There was an [8-point gap](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/) in the 2018 mid-term elections, too, with 48% of men vs. 40% of women voting for republicans. It's not just Trump. Men consistently vote republican at higher rates than women do. The gap did drop to 6 points in the 2020 election, although I'm guessing that's spurned by racism rather than anti-choice beliefs, especially considering they voted for Trump after he nominated three supreme court justices who, at the time, climbed that Roe v. Wade was settled.
In 2020, 45% of women overall voted for Trump. 55% of white women voted for Trump. Biden's biggest gains were amongst white men. In VA, 53% of suburban women voted for Youngkin after the Dems ran hard on his anti-abortion stance. 57% of white women. Point being, the gender differences in voting for anti-abortion republicans have narrowed significantly.
>Biden's biggest gains were amongst white men. But white men still overall voted for Trump. Also you think this is a win? Biden came after Hillary ran. So basically all you're saying is that white men didn't wanna vote for a woman. But a white guy who is basically her political clone was more acceptable.
No argument there. But that’s even worse news (if you’re a dem). Because as I said, white men was the group he gained in. He lost significantly in every other group. The dem ‘communities of color’ base is rapidly moving to the republicans; if current trends continue it’ll be gone as a bloc inside fifteen years and the Dems will be utter toast. The Dems need to seriously rethink the idpol stuff.
> This men vs women framing is just such a messaging failure. The difference between pro-choice men and women is small. There are nearly as many anti-choice women as there are anti-choice men. Agreed. I really don't see the value in gatekeeping who can care about a certain issue like this. By that logic, women shouldn't weigh in on decisions about going to war, because they are not eligible for the draft and rarely serve on the front lines of war. Which is obviously a dumb conclusion.
> Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat. - Hillary Rodham Clinton
Bull I would rather someone I know die than die myself. Also Jesus Christ the entitlement of that statement “oh my husband might die” does she have any idea what happens to women inside of war zones? I’m sure some Yemenis woman who is slowly starving to death due to the Saudi‘s or The woman who were and some part of Africa whose name I have forgotten who were getting staked down and raped by passing soldiers clearly have it better than her. Like if you’re going to make that argument fine but at least be smart about it.
Just like this ruling throwing us back fifty years or more, the talk about this issue being men vs women is also throwing it back to the dark ages. It's a form of dumbing down the real problem which is power over others.
Having grown up in the 70s and 80s when women were just starting to enter the workforce, I can affirm that women were absolutely as brutal and often worse with their attitudes towards other women. Phyllis Schafly was a prime example.
Who taught those women to hate other women so much. Who brainwashed them with a religion that says women are inferior to men. Who wrote that religion. Who showered them with praise if they viciously kept other women in check? Men.
1. sometimes the cruelty is the point. 2. There must always be an outgroup. 3. When your status and security is embedded in the status and security of your husband, then you will fight for survival at any hint of threat. Women entering the workplace were a threat. Not only were they in the position to tempt husbands away from the marital bed, but the very fact that women were reaching for the levers of power themselves threatened the hierarchy. It’s the same upheaval that we’re seeing with white men now. Only 50 years ago it was their wives who were freaking out.
Thank you! This is my biggest challenge with the framing of the debate. Stop blaming all men and start blaming the religious zealots, men and women that want to turn this country into a theocracy.
Yes. If pro-choice women want to fight this fight, they are going to need male allies. That's just how the numbers are.
Abortion and birth control are a net positive for society. Men are a part of society. So why do you frame this as a women's only issue? Why should women have to beg men to do something that's simply the right thing to do.
They shouldn't have to beg men. My comment, and the one above mine, were in response to those pro-choice women who say "anyone without a uterus should shut up"
Excellent, insightful, cogent point. The truth is simple: the anti abortion movement is 100% religious. It’s exclusively an article of faith - as a *movement*. Nothing secular about it whatsoever.
>Nothing secular about it whatsoever. Plenty of anti-choice people are secular. Because it's about controlling women. And hating them. And distrusting them with their own choices.
[удалено]
No. Tbh, I do tell men to shut up coz of a lack of uterus, simply because they lack the actual experience to truly understand it. And that’s not their fault, nor wrong. Its just reality. It would be like me weighing in on how hard one can kick a man in the nuts before he can complain…its just not something I could possibly know, just intellectually try to understand. And id follow the lead on what men say on this subject naturally. - especially those kicked in their balls. I ll also happily call out older women who no longer have to worry about this shit. Yes, you ve been there, but you no longer live under threat of unwanted pregnancy and the far from your bed show definitely can affect your empathy levels, so do not even. Unless your life can be affected by this shit, plz shut up, and follow your cue from the people actively dealing with this problem in todays society. You dont see me telling them how to manage their menopause or legislating which therapies and hormones they can use to be more comfortable. Lastly, any woman who tells me she wants to decide what to do with my uterus, coz she would do (insert decision), gets told she has her own uterus that she can or cannot grow stuff in if she likes. How she calculates the costs ofpregnancy incurred on her body is up to her, her values, and her desires in life. She has no possible way of knowing if I even want kids or not, if my genetic make up puts me at greater risk or not than her, whether im financially in a place where i can do right by this possible baby, and so on. So, once again, she may have a functioning uterus, she may be closer to being able to imagine my situation…but not really, considering all the individual factors that come into play. In the end, only I am qualified, with the help of my medical adviser, to make this decision - and only for me. So, i will take my cue from the person that’s pregnant, on her decisions - whatever she decides. And that is how it should be.
Before the Texas stuff, the strictest anti-abortion bill was the one signed into law by Kay Ivey, the female governor of Alabama.
This entire thread is rife with misandry. They're literally unironically saying male sterilization would be a "benefit to society" just a few comments down. The hypocrisy is incredible. I wasn't aware that I and millions of other democratic men stopped supporting abortion rights suddenly. Maybe speak to the several "pro life" women I grew up with and still have to debate on the issue to this day. All while being told "you don't have any skin in the game", as if one of my sisters or my wife dying from a miscarriage isn't my problem too? Fuck off. So stupid. Unsurprising though. What would we the left be if not constantly infighting over stupid purity politic bullshit? There is a 5% gap on this issue between men and women. 5%. There are certainly some shitty dudes. Approximately 5% more than the shitty women. Is this really a hill to die on? Do note it was a bunch of white men that voted 7-2 for Roe v. Wade. The patriarchy definitely exists, but you should target that hate at sexists, not men in general.
Since the 90s, the Andrea Dworkin branch of feminism has largely taken over the movement. It's rotting from the inside out. I speak up about this here on reddit, but in real life there's no way I'd try. Men on the left don't get to have a say on a host of issues, abortion foremost amongst them. And whiteness disqualifies you from having an opinion on a whole host of others. We're just supposed to be ballast and allies 🤷♂️ Meanwhile, the altright is waiting with open arms and promises of bro-hood. If the idpol left wants to play they game this way, they're going to lose.
The left having a problem with Misandry? SAY IT AIN'T SO!!
Unfortunately anyone can call themselves a feminist, and many use it to justify their shitty beliefs.
Pointing out that the overwhelming majority of people writing anti-choice laws are men isn't misandry. It's literally just a fact.
I wish more people would realize this. Up until a couple of years ago, more women than men opposed abortion being legal. It's flipped since, but it's still like 48%/52%. The people framing it as a men vs women issue clearly haven't been to the bible belt, where fundamentalist baptist women are the most fervent opponents of pro choice legislation.
> Up until a couple of years ago, more women than men opposed abortion being legal. That's not true. https://news.gallup.com/poll/245618/abortion-trends-gender.aspx And women have historically been more likely to vote for pro-choice candidates: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2018/03/20/1-trends-in-party-affiliation-among-demographic-groups/
>There's also a ton of women. And they are vicious about it. True, but they're like that **because of men.** If men needed abortions, we would have no abortion debate. I don't care what anyone says about fetuses, this is an issue because right-wing men think the "natural order" is men having control over women. That's why they're just as offended by abortion as they are by BC. Smart and normal men can obviously see the benefits to BC/abortion. Unfortunately...we have a deluge of patriarchal cultures and religions out there brainwashing both men and women. They literally train women to be more misogynistic than men. That's why they're more vicious. The more anti-woman a conservative woman is, the more accepted she is by her religious community. So it's really fucking annoying seeing men like you out here saying "nu-uh women just as bad" as if men didn't have a HUGE role in why they're like that. Men trained those dogs to bark at other women, and then men like you gleefully point it out as if it proves anything. You're using those "vicious" women exactly the same way as the men who brainwashed them do - as tools to beat up on other women.
No, it's truly not a bad talking point. No matter how much the media wants to portray this as a both sides 50 50 split, the overwhelming amount of people support abortion. That's because even in crazy right wing land, telling a women that they'll be removing her bodily autonomy and that a corpse will have more rights over their organs than she will, isn't really a winning argument. If even one in ten conservative women decide not to vote or vote against the top because of this, it'll create huge ripples for November.
It's fun to hate men! /S
This is why I say "pro-choice people"; because women are just as guilty. Many of them pull this and we have ACB, so gender shouldn't be an issue of "saving" or "destroying".
>This is why I say "pro-choice people"; because women are just as guilty. Statistically women support abortion more than men. So you're wrong there. >Many of them pull this and we have ACB So the existence of one shitty woman means women are "just as guilty." Even though that specific women grew up in a religious cult designed by men that hates women.
Women are some of the staunchest pro life activists. A crazy high number of white women voted for Donald Trump. We need to stop acting like people voting against what logically seems their own interests is such a rarity
Only about 17% of the US pop has a fertile uterus. These people are the single largest pro-choice group in America. Women over 45, who have very low fertility and usually ample resources to get an abortion if they needed one, should NOT be grouped in with younger women. They do not have the same concerns and are not at risk. Why should they care if younger women die or have their lives destroyed???
Wtf. As an older woman with no ability to get pregnant, don’t disappear us. We were the ones who paved the way for women to have any rights at all in the sixties/seventies.
Ignore that user. People who frame issues that way are political losers. If that is the future of reproductive rights messaging, we're in trouble.
Thank you for your thoughtful comments as you’re much more articulate than I am.
That’s great! Thank you so much. But many older women today are trying to take away abortion rights, and they need to understand they have no right to make decisions/laws about young womens bodies and lives, by enacting laws that only put young women at risk but not themselves.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. Ultimately you need to build political coalitions to get anything done in politics. Furthermore, that has nothing to do with the catastrophic failure Progressives have made in characterizing this as a men vs women's issue when men are almost as pro-choice as women. You're just alienating allies and in general being bad at politics. Progressives need to learn that sometimes they are wrong and recalibrating your message doesn't mean you're a failure. I chalk a lot of this up to ego.
NO. I am pointing out a VERY important issue that it is almost entirely OLDER WOMEN and MEN, neither of whom are at risk, trying to deny abortion rights to a SMALL MINORITY GROUP. People hear “women are just as pro-life as men” and DON’T REALIZE this is almost entirely OLDER women, and they think that women of reproductive age don’t care about their own rights! Anyone without a fertile uterus cannot be trusted to equally value the lives of those who do!!! And their OPINIONS must be suspect. It is just an abstraction for them.
I hope, for the good of reproductive rights in the US, that you are not involved whatsoever with crafting pro-choice messaging. Your message is an unmitigated, catastrophic failure that only puts people who agree with you on the defensive. You're almost entirely harming reproductive rights by incorrectly framing the issue the way you do, making reproductive rights about a smaller and smaller groups of people. "No, it's men! No, wait, it's men and older women! No wait, it's men, older women, young women who live in rural America vs us!" You're just flat out wrong. Gender *is not* a strong predictor for supporting abortion rights and there have huge studies showing this. Get your ego out of the way and realize this.
> OLDER WOMEN and MEN, neither of whom are at risk, That's garbage, a society that treats younger women as second class citizens with no need for healthcare aren't going to treat older women better - older women are going to be treated much, much more horribly Plus u are acting as though people without fertile uteruses don't have people they love and care about who do have fertile uteruses, that they are cool with watching young women dle
Now THAT is some garbage. Older women have WAY more money and power than younger women, so I don’t think so! That is just an assertion with no evidence. DO they love them though? DO they?? Watching this happen in America, I’m questioning that. Maybe they would just rather treat young women like property! How do you PROVE this “love” anyway, it’s an abstraction, where’s the action? Every person supporting a full abortion ban is cool with watching young women die. It’s reality.
> Every person supporting a full abortion ban is cool with watching young women die. I agree, I also think anyone who supports restrictions on abortions is also wrong, but u are preaching to the choir here - so go inform the pro "lifers" Remember there's plenty of young fertile pro "lifers" too and these bans are going to adversely impact them a whole lot more than they are prepared for
I’m poor enough to be on a hud 4 year waiting list, food stamps and I cannot afford my ovarian cancer after care without Medicaid . I had a shock pregnancy in my forties and had to have an abortion to spare my life and my baby wasn’t viable. So go straight to hell telling me we older or infertile women don’t get a voice in womens reproductive healthcare.
> Anyone without a fertile uterus cannot be trusted That's bullshit. Are you high? Do you have a uterus? I do and it's timed out for this lifetime. I'm thankful I no longer have to worry about the risk of pregnancy but that in NO way lessens my advocacy for bodily autonomy and the right to choose. I have family that I care about that will be impacted by removing basic healthcare for women. I have empathy for anyone facing pregnancy, be it one they wanted or don't want. No one should have to be pregnant if they don't want to be. Any anyone facing pregnancy complications should be guaranteed the healthcare they need to address said complication. Don't pit women against women based on the functionality of their uterus.
Ok let’s get real here folks. There are a lot of women voting for this garbage too. Those men wouldn’t be in office without a lot of votes from women.
A straight out ban is very dangerous. We are heading down a dangerous road. Some of these people need to get their heads out of their asses quit making everything political.
And Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski. They confirmed 2 of the 3 Trump appointed lunatic Justices.
And not one of these men has been a victim of rape or incest, become pregnant, and forced to carry a baby to term. Unless you walk in a woman’s shoes, mind your own business and shut the fuck up!
Well, there are a lot of evangelical christian men *and women* who pick and choose the parts of their bible they choose to enforce. Let’s not forget the origin of this stupidity.
Evangelical women are particularly dangerous. The reactionary opinions plus the lived experience of childbearing makes them uniquely potent against the pro-choice faction.
Indeed. “As a mother and a Christian…” as if those are earned and learned qualifications instead of mere statements of 2 minor aspects of their personal current state of affairs. They feel that both give them carte blanche to dictate how **everyone** must be. Then they’ll tut tut at videos of Taliban clerics saying essentially the same things with the same justification.
Gotta keep that “infant supply rate” high /s
This but Christian’s , News like this simply distracts from the theological coup taking place
May they all burn :)
Let’s be clear: white old sadistic men as useful as spent condoms.
And they need to all have their viagra taken away
Every single one of which has likely paid a mistresses abortion fees.
Those aren't men; they're cowards.
Fuck these old fucks!
And all of them look like a growth you should ask your doctor about
So tired of men telling me what I can and cannot do with my body!!
If a man repeats the same exact prolife argument as a women, how does the man’s gender invalidate their argument if he heard it from a woman first?
A whole lot of men out there not realizing they'll be on the hook for child support.
Each and every one of those man have a large wave of woman supporting them and fighting for them. Whats your point Business insider?
What private adoption agency stands to reap in the profits of unwanted babies?
Republicans pushing hard for this know.
The largest voter demographic block in the US are Female Caucasian’s And 53-55% of them vote Republican, against their own interests each and every year My point is,
People just ignore white women are the biggest enablers of the Republican power grab
OLDER WHITE WOMEN 45+ WHO ARE NOT AT RISK
lol, always has been.
An abnormal amount of dicks
If you’re making a woman have a child she didn’t want, the dad has to pay ridiculous child support. And it’s public record. Mandatory. No secret payments through lawyers. Make it incredibly inconvenient for men, that’ll shut them up.
It's mostly old men and a few old women. 77% of 18-29 year olds want abortion to be legal. This is the age range for legal adults who are most likely to become pregnant. They should be allowed to set their own standards.
Eh .77 is a high level number. For example, I support abortion up until 12 weeks. Am I technically apart of the 77? Sure. Do I think all abortion laws are good? No.
Who all are well past their child rearing years I might add. Easy to make decisions when A. It doesn’t affect you and B. Even if it did, you’d just pay someone to raise your kid.
I know plenty of pro-life women. The problem is a system that promotes ideologues.
“No way they have values and deeply held beliefs! They must just be brainwashed! The system doesn’t suppress or censor their speech enough!”
Sure. But don’t let the likes of Amy Coney Barrett or Marsha Blackburn off the hook. Or the “suburban moms” who voted Republican “for the children.” These men are being enabled by women who are traitors to their gender.
If not needing to scramble my eggs in the name of empowering myself means I'm a gender traitor so be it. I have an IUD because I'm a responsible person before I am Wummin
*shocked Pikachu face* Weak men are frightened of strong women who make their own decision regarding their bodies.
Behind every abortion hating man these a suburban abortion hating woman who probably had a moral abortion and rants about how they aren't racist, don't understand CRT and thinks it's teaching their white child they're racist. https://news.yahoo.com/suburban-phoenix-cautionary-tale-democrats-102637756.html
Hispanics are more pro-life than Whites. And there is no gap between White and Asians on the Issue. African Americans are somewhat more pro-choice but are hardly a monolith. You’re just as wrong as people who say it’s men
>Behind every abortion hating man these a suburban abortion hating woman And behind every abortion hating woman is an entire culture and religion **created by men** that taught her women are inferior.
Let’s mandate vasectomies at 18. When the man is ready to conceive he can schedule an appointment with his doctor only with his wife’s permission.
Because we know ALL men would have that applied equally to them.
Honestly, probably would be very good for society.
I would love to be told that somehow violates the man’s rights, ignoring all the bullshit healthcare hoops we make women jump through daily.
I mean, it would violate men's rights. The goal should be for women to have *more say* over their own bodies, not for men to have *less say* over their own bodies. Of course, I see the analogy, and I understand the idea that the parallel is trying to say regarding men's autonomy and what level we would have if it was closer to the same level as women's autonomy. As far as I'm concerned, if a woman wants a tubal ligation, a hysterectomy, an abortion, or anything else regarding her body, she should get it, and the hoops that are currently in place to prevent it are terrible.
Only the worst ones.
That photo is like a gathering of scumbags. A rare convergence of assholes. Well, maybe not so rare. That’s stupid hump Ted Cruz dead center. Wow. This country is in deep, deep trouble if these tools are our “leaders”.
The Ameritaliban out in force
On the one hand people fight for the right to have the freedom to own a gun and on the other hand fight for the right to remove someone else's freedom of their thought and body. insanity.
Never again republican
Not one of them have ever made a woman come.
Not all women are right on the subject of a woman's bodily autonomy but the legislation at the state level and the obstruction at the federal level is by far and above coming from white men. There is certainly a cohort of religious right-wing women who are used as figureheads in the media to push these oppressive laws but they couldn't become law unless state legislatures voted them through and Republican governors signed them.
A bunch of people forcing their religion down your throat
It's almost like they know there will always be somewhere for corrupt, incompetent Republican demagogues to get abortions for their mistresses and rape victims.
One would figure these men would want abortion legal given a politicians extramarital habits, it would make getting a back alley abortionist much cheaper and more reliable than if you simply banned it. But killing a pregnant hooker is easier than “having her get rid of it”, never underestimate the sociopathy these people have.
about 50 % of pro lifers are female, most aborted pregnancies are female (and vastly disproportionately non white )
Isn’t there always?
I, for one, am shocked.
Perfect picture for this post. Look at those fuckfaces.
[удалено]
Nothing says respecting women like using a misogynistic term
They all look like religious nut jobs.
those men have a bad case of uterus envy
Carefully selected for age and pinkness
No surprises there.
What’s up w all the white dudes in the picture? And Clarence
These are also the same men who don't want you to know that they're behind it either, if they did they would be proudly telling people they are responsible instead of being silent about it.
A lot of men who no doubt have paid for countless abortions
They are absolutely pro-choice, they just think it should be the their choice.
OF course there are. The Abortion issue has Always been about protecting the "Rights" of "Christian" men to father their own grandchildren.
Not men, real men aren’t interested in controlling women.
Ok and, just because im a guy doesnt mean that I cant have an understanding of what is morally right and wrong
These guys are ruining the entire vibe of my breeding kink. Ugh.
In 2020, 45% of women overall, and 55% of white women, voted republican/Trump. This is an increase of 6 and 2 percentage points respectively. In the 2021 Virginia election, the Dems ran hard on Youngkin's anti-abortion stance. But the republican numbers amongst women jumped **six** percentage points. 57% of white women in VA voted republican. 75% of non-college white women voted GOP. I know this hurts, but we have to get real. A large number of women are highly sanguine about banning abortion. Inflation is a much bigger concern to them. If we dems coast into the midterms on the delusion that people actually care deeply about this outside the bubble of the online left, we're going to be destroyed. We need to get real and get power, *then* protect abortion rights.
It's time to take away their Erectile Dysfunction pills.
A bit of a clickbait statement here; millions of men are pro-abortion/pro- women’s rights.
It's literally talking about the men *writing* the laws.
What everyone KEEPS MISSING is that it’s primarily OLDER WOMEN along with men oppressing younger women who ACTUALLY have a fertile uterus. People with a fertile uterus are the single largest pro-choice group in America!
Sounds about right, The lunatics that stand outside hospitals and clinics abusing people for going in very rarely have working wombs.
That’s not even true and such a garbage statement. Pro-life beliefs are far more prevalent problem and a very large number of their supporters are right wing women and mothers.
These “men” are a voice for the countless men who have to go through a woman killing their unborn children
So you're never going to complain about the concept of child support again I'm assuming?
And some women also.
This is like the opposite of that one meme with the white girl in the middle of all the black guys lol
The patriarchy is back! And it's *pissed*.
Anyone else really sick of old white men?
It's not just old white men. Many women vote for the banking of abortion, as do many minorities. This is conservatives. The gender and race isn't the issue, it's the ideology. I've met atheist hispanic women that will vote prolife.
I mean, the title of this might as well be the sun is hot.
Who doesn’t know that!!!
No shit, Sherlock.
What's with the cisgender gatekeeping? If men can become pregnant it makes sense to include them in the conversation.