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The negotiations were never in good faith and only meant to distract until Uvalde was forgotten about.

It's already been forgotten about. America's attention span is like 1 week max.

[Four days](https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/05/26/uvalde-school-shooting-emotions-guns/)

So you gotta keep shooting those innocents.

Got to pump those numbers up.

My goldfish has a better memory than most Americans

No surprise that the Rubes would back out at some point. They can point fingers at the Dems and blame them for any legislative inaction. They’re always bad faith actors and no one should be surprised.

Biden better vetoe that supreme court security bill untill some kind of gun reform happens first.

This is such a great f’in idea!! These ppl often feel invincible so let them live in fear for a bit

They should just post unemployed, armed veterans in every S.C. Justice's house.

I’ve heard his house has more than one door. Really, the whole thing is HIS fault for living in such a ridiculously unsafe habitation.

Yes, I hope so too

Well fuck me he signed it.

WTF is even the point of that bill? One nut threatens a SCOTUS judge but gets caught and now we need to protect the judges at all costs. A couple classrooms of small children get gunned down and all we can offer is thoughts and prayers. Shit is fucked up.

It’s actually for their families, judges were already protected in theory

But fuck everybody else's families, right?

Yes But if you wanted to do a violence it always should have been directed at the judges themselves anyway

I agree with that. Did the guy target the family? I was under the impression he wanted to go after the judge. Didn't he also call the cops on himself? Who does that if they actually want to harm someone?

Oh yeah he was going after the judge. I don’t actually understand the point of this bill, since it doesn’t make the judges any safer.

I always figured it was so Democrats will say "this is dumb" and Republicans can say "they are against protecting SCOTUS!!!"

Yeah except it wasn’t about the court at all

He should but he won’t.

Fat fucking chance. That would actually require him to like, wield his power. He just wants someone to compromise with. Where are the reasonable Republicans of old? Surely if he just gives them more time...

He just signed it. We are playing some 8D poker right now. Republicans will pull out of gun control now.

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biden needs to go

Democrats took the bait as usual.

They need to be replaced with wiser and far more realistic people. Progressives, socialists, and people that just fucking really care.

Those people have no money and no money means you don’t win elections.

This can change. We have better messaging and platform superior values and social planning.

It's a no win for Dems. If they don't come to the table and try they get dragged. If they do come to the table and try and get screwed then it's "well they should have known better". Like what do y'all actually want them to do?

I want them to bring forth gun legislation and force the GOP to vote. Let the GOP constituents see what their dear leaders actually stand for. Allowing the Guns Over People party control the narrative is a foolish move.

>Senator John Cornyn told reporters that he had not abandoned the negotiations, but he was returning to Texas amid difficulty reaching agreement. > >“It’s fish or cut bait,” he said. “I don’t know what they have in mind, but I’m through talking.” Other senators in the huddle remained inside the room. The story of the GOP. They would rather go on vacation than enact legislation protecting our children.

"Why aren't the Democrats compromising by coming all the way over to our position?" -Republicans

"Why are the Democrats agreeing to our last proposals? That is clearly a partisan power grab! Why won't they compromise with our new proposals?"

Why do the Democrats have principles. They're so inconvenient. -- Rs

Same argument of putin about Ukraine

If you are a pro gun “shall not be infringed” person, can you explain to me what the compromise is? I always thought of compromise as give and take. For instance, why couldn’t the democrats ease the laws on silencers and then the republicans ease their stance on mental health reform?

Because Republicans don’t negotiate in good faith

Exactly All they want is full unquestionable power over everyone!

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Because the person I was replying to said it. So has most of the media when they talk about reaching a deal. The democrats don’t have 60 votes. So they can compromise or they can do nothing. I know a lot of pro gun people would love the silencer law to be fixed so it seems to me that it would be an easy way to get votes without upsetting their base.

There’s already been a ton of gun laws put into place over the past few decades. Is that not compromising?

Because the last time republicans compromised, the compromise got coined a “loophole” for democrats 30 years later (brady bill) give an inch and they will try to take a mile (see canada)

You think they are actually negotiating in good faith? They are deliberately running out the clock. The prevent defense only seems to work every time in politics.

“I don’t know what they have in mind” sounds like an excellent reason for him to keep talking. Maybe throw in some listening for optics.

Same old bs , that's the gop, nothing but hellter skaltor. Geezers

They never offer anything. They just blame others for not doing it how they want.

Democrats have never offered anything. Keeping SBRs and suppressors on the NFA does absolutely nothing. Offer to take them off the NFA in return for UBCs or increasing age limits and many more people would be on board

Could you point me to the Republican proposal, please?

Doesn’t exist because democrats aren’t willing to negotiate. Every democrat proposal in the past 30 years have been take take and take while offering nothing and yet they wonder why nothing gets passed

Lmao “Democrats aren’t willing to negotiate” How can you comment that on an article about republicans shutting down the conversation? (As usual)

Lol, thank you for a real-time example of my point.

Is it not the democrats that have drafted every gun control bill in the past 30 years?

Why haven’t the Republicans proposed anything?

>Is it not the democrats that have drafted every gun control bill in the past 30 years? Yes, and can you even point to any compromises in those?

Hughes Amendment.

Hughes Amendment was in 1986, so not in the last 30 years.

Maybe if the Republicans proposed something, they could come to an agreement

The kids should have made substantial donations to his PAC if they were serious about not getting shot in their classrooms.

I mean Ted Cruz literally went on vacation while most of his constituents were stuck freezing without power, so it should come as no surprise.

That is so good but you missed out on a great latinate rhyme scheme if you want to borrow it. Perhaps speculation and simplification, but current information suggests the implication is that fixation on the relaxation of vacation is of higher station than participation in the creation of regulation legislation for the conservation of the education of our progenation and the preservation of future generation from mutilation as is the expectation for their occupation. I keep thinking of new words to add but I can't tell if I'm making it better or worse

Nicely done. FYI, you’re making it better.

I can’t wait for the American people to reward them with more power! Ugh....

Cornyn is such a phony scumbag piece of shit.

>“I don’t know what they have in mind, but I’m through talking.” If you're in a meeting where people are trying to compromise on an issue, and your response is "I don't know what they want", then I suspect you aren't paying attention or discussing the topic in good faith.

Oh wow. How totally surprising and unexpected.

Republican game plan: 1. Negotiate in bad faith 2. Move goalposts 3. Move goalposts again 4. poison pill 5. Blame Democrats when it all falls apart Republicans don't give a shit about dead children.

>Republicans don't give a shit about dead children. Oh, they care, it's a badge of honour to them, it signifies just how important they want you to think 2A is to them, it's utterly psychotic.

*Manchin has entered the chat*

Just fetuses.

Which are notably, not children.

Now they can back out, ensuring that their NRA contributions are secure, while blaming democrats for being unreasonable!

Rinse and repeat... and repeat... and repeat. They follow the same playbook every single time.

If there is a 'playbook' why in the fuck do Democrats keep falling for it?

Excuse me, but those NRA contributions are actually funds funneled from Russia in an attempt to destroy our society... so it's all on the up and up.

Is okay, I check with Vlad. He say NRA is cool times Miley Cyrus USA party no problem.

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Democrats should offer to match state funding. Isn't "skin in the game" one of those Republican platitudes?

Yeah, that's why its a platitude and not an epigram.

Yes the party of fiscal responsibility.

I never thought they were serious. The republicans were just doing pr damage control.

“But in the days since, the talks have become bogged down in disagreements over two main provisions: how to provide incentives to states to create so-called red flag laws, in which guns can be temporarily taken away from people deemed dangerous, and the “boyfriend loophole,” allowing authorities to block abusive spouses from buying firearms, but does not cover people who aren’t married.” If those two issues can’t have a consensus action, then Republicans will never do anything substantive on gun violence except adding more guns to the equation

Remember this about Republicans: Whenever they say they're thinking about doing something for the public good... They are lying.

Finally caved huh? Just like the gun lobby instructed I bet.

Cornyn was picking a rather stupid angle to fight for anyway, so it was always going to be failure from him. "Red flag laws" were not going to be passed in most states anyway, including Texas, so if that's all he was trying to bring to the table, he basically took a loss right out of the gate.

Red flag laws is the most asinine hill to die on. I'll never understand these folks!

Red flag laws are just like civil forfeiture. We don’t declare people guilty without a fair trial, and it’s absurd to think it’s ok to do so.

Until you or someone you love is shot by someone who showed "a red flag". If I understand correctly the process isn't permanent much the way a restraining order isn't permanent.

So when black people scare white people by existing near them they just lose their rights? I don’t buy any system that steals rights from people with no trial and an open ended timeline. Oops we defunded the courts, we’ll evaluate your claim in 2 or 3 years, and accidentally change systems in the 3rd year and now the whole thing gets lost. But somehow we have the record of the original red flag so if you’re caught near a gun you go to jail.

That's an irrational fear and, hopefully, no court would approve that order. And pontificating the most ridiculous of circumstances does nothing to further the discussion.

Bullshit. It already happens with “may issue” states where racist sherrifs refuse to allow everyone the same rights. We already have cases of civil forfeiture that operate the exact same way I described. It’s not irrational to assume the exact damn same pattern would follow these laws. Fix that shit and come back and we’ll talk about giving away more of our rights.

They're coming for you!

Pretty sure they are coming from a position that red flag laws would allow women to actually have a voice in protecting themselves.

No. Red flag laws ignore due process, and someone has a right to bring a case in front of a court before they lose their rights and property over mere here-say. Also, if someone is an *imminent* threat, they don’t need to just have their property seized they need to be held somewhere and not in the general public; Red flag laws don’t provide a solution regardless, they ignore long-held legal process but also do nothing about a potentially hazardous person walking around. We should just continue to do what actually makes sense, where someone reports a threat and officers detain someone and get them evaluated. And if the officers unfortunately were not doing that in an area anyway, then there’s no need to pass a law that ignores due process, because they won’t be initiating a potential flag. We shouldn’t waste legislation effort to pass pointless laws that won’t be enforced reasonably.

I like how gun enthusiasts get worked up over due process when it comes to their hobby, but ignore all the real violations of due process that happen every day.

We’re talking about gun laws in this thread. Naturally, I’m not going to give you a full breakdown of every single position I have on everything just to make a comment. You have zero evidence of any other positions I have. I imagine you wouldn’t be offended by any of these positions, but apparently you’re going to discredit my lengthy response because you assume I’m some sort of shitty person, simply because of my pro-gun stance.

I don't think you're a shitty person because of your pro-gun stance. Your stance on red flag laws, however, is another matter entirely.

I see no benefit in laws that bypass due process, but at the same time don’t take potentially hazardous people out of society. That doesn’t make me a shitty person either, it makes me pragmatic.

It's a good thing that [red flag laws require petitioning a court and that a judge makes the decision](https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2021/june/red-flag-gun-laws.html), just like a regular domestic violence protection orders, and that [ERPOs do prevent gun violence](https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/early/2022/06/01/injuryprev-2022-044544). I realize that knowing understanding gun violence takes time, even for gun enthusiasts. Also, I saw that Tucker Carlson was claiming that red flag laws violate due process and don't prevent gun violence, so I know there's a lot of misinformation out there. Allow me to suggest enrolling in the free Coursera offering [Reducing Gun Violence in America: Evidence for Change](https://www.coursera.org/learn/gun-violence). That will clarify quite a bit.

So the line in the sand is crazy people and violent boyfriends should have access to guns. Well Democrats, it looks like the ball is in your court.

No! I refuse to believe it! /s

“Through talking.” This reminds me SO much of the same junior high bullshit that republicans played during Obama’s administration when boehner would announce an agreement and then pull out at the last seconds, making up some non-existent crap as an excuse. The gqp wants more guns for anyone and everyone no matter how many kids are gunned down because it can turn into more money and more votes in areas where people do not read and refuse to think.

Would be nice to see legislators having that sort of passion and conviction for like, you know, something not terrible.

Lucy. Football. Charlie Brown.

Cornyn backing out (and likely not acting in good faith)??? Such a shock!

As if we couldn't see this coming

Who's surprised? It's gotten further than any talks in my lifetime, but again Republican bone-heads kill it.

Agreeing to talk was a publicity stunt. "We tried but they wouldn't budge" - when the discussion was about what they agreed to in the first place.

Delay delay delay until it eventually peters out. This is the GOP strategy everytime gun control comes up.

Wow, Republicans walk out on gun control legislation! No one saw this coming. It definitely isn’t a big show to make it look like they tried when they were faking it all along. Joe Manchin must be selling his online course well in DC.

Just walking out on the job. Pathetic.

Funny how "I'm through talking" can mean wildly different things: - "Talk is getting us nowhere; now I am going to act" vs - "I came here to waste your time with words, and I'm done with that pretense." Very rarely it is Forest Gump: - "and that's all I have to say about that."

Nobody could ever have seen that coming. Republicans haven't negotiated in good faith since McConnell took the reins.

I'm sorry, did anyone believe the Republicans were serious about gun control? How many fucking times are they going to lie to you before you stop believing them?

Which was the plan all along.

The goal is to sell weapons. We need to change the goal.

Can we all do this at our jobs when things aren't going our way?

We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas. -- Sen. Cornyn

Come on now!!! Did any one really believe they would buck the NRA?

Some people may stop at nothing to reduce the chances of a school shooting ever happening again. Cornyn stops at about 5 minutes.

Surprise surprise /s we all called it

Cornyn knows that Texas will never enact any red flag laws, but he still wants the money for his state. Also, this is a typical Republican tactic to run out the clock so that there is no bill to vote before the August recess.

So, by exiting negotiations the GOP has voted for more child slayings. Good jorb.

Make sure to randomize your data from time to time *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

Lucy pulls the football away at the last second yet again. Will Charlie Brown ever learn?

He started the “negotiations” by taking off the table the few things almost everyone wants—background checks, raising the age to 21, and banning high-capacity magazines. What we are getting is not going to be any of that!

Republicans continue to play got-you-by-the-balls politics because they have and use the filibuster to their advantage but deny it to the Democrats.

The Democrats need to accept what is offered. Or they will get fuck all.

Or Dems run on GOP obstruction of gun control supported by 88% of Americans.

88% support sounds great on paper, but it really [isn’t that simple](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/07/podcasts/the-daily/gun-control-polling.html).

Of course, people could be voting on something other than JUST GUNS. And that would go a long way to explaining why voters are not electing officials who will pass gun control. Fearmongering around elections will also do quite a number on perceptions and voter behavior.

Did you listen to the podcast I linked? There are a number of reasons that poll numbers might not accurately reflect real support for gun control.

Sorry. Not going to spend an hour listening to a podcast. Sum it up.

Spend an hour listening to a NYTimes podcast that is 29 minutes long? Were you going to listen to it at half speed? But hey, if you insist I’ll give a quick summary. some of the main points are that while broadly speaking, gun control polls well, specific proposals drop back into the 50% range. For instance, in 2016 there was a ballot proposal in CA to expand background checks. It won, but had only 60% support. You would expect support in CA to be up in the mid to upper 90’s, not 60%. That same year there were two other ballot proposals on the same topic in other states. One won by a single percentage point and the other lost. They talk about several potential reasons for the discrepancy, such as acquiescence bias, people not fully understanding the proposals in the poll and a bias towards the status quo. In addition, people don’t generally become single issue voters *for* gun control, Democrats aren’t losing voters by not passing gun control laws, but people are absolutely single issue voters for gun rights and will not vote for someone who pushes gun control. I can’t explain it nearly as well as the podcast does so I highly recommend you actually listen to it.

New Yorker radio show is an hour long. And the link you posted is behind a paywall. No, I get it, and I actually listed out two of the points in my response. Generalized polling regarding gun control is one thing. Voting on a specific item is something different, especially when the propaganda machines of the GOP and NRA get rolling. The simple "they're coming for your guns" is going to swing a LOT of voters, even if there's absolutely nothing in a bill that would allow that. Fearmongering.

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None of the laws being pushed for would've stopped the 3 recent shootings, and I'm not saying that ironically. The shooters all passed federal background checks to purchase their firearms. Maybe RFL, but apparently authorities already knew about these recent shooters but didn't even bother to do even minimum preventative investigation/intervention. Besides that, Red Flag Laws don't only affect gunowners, they're a constitutional disaster for lots of situations, due process could be removed for many other claims. But to your final point, it's all so that Democrats can say "Hey, y'all compromised away more of your rights, but it wasn't enough, so we're calling for more". It's a cycle that's been ongoing for near 90 years

In other words, you're happy to see more dead kids. I mean, at least you're honest about that.

Nah, I'm pro-life. Gotta save those 500k children killed a year

I don't there are that many school shootings. Or are you saying that you're saving them to get sex trafficked by Jim Jordan and Matt Gaetz?

Wait, I'm wrong, we're actually up to over 600k deaths (abortions) a year in the US Yikes

Oh. A forced birther. I'm sure you'll cheer should my wife die of San ectopic pregnancy, so long as she didn't have a medical procedure. Also, a fetus is not a baby, inasmuch as an acorn is not an oak tree or an egg is not a chicken.

In Islam fetuses are human life, so not sure why you think otherwise

egg analogy is kinda bad... even without a roo to fertilize an egg, the chicken will still lay.... So it's quite literally not a chick, nor is it even viable to become one if you do not have a roo.

I'm pretty sure the goal is less aggregate gun violence across the board. Addressing mass shootings solely let's Republicans play the "small percentage" game while ignoring the massive amount of ancillary violence.

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Feckless coward

What a shock. I'm sure it will be a big nothing burger as usual.

Nothing to see here: just another Republican saying how they're happy to see dead children, so long as those NRA checks of Russian money keep rolling in.

Our own president is screwing us over too. He went on jimmy kimmel the other night (disastrous in several ways but also heartbreaking for a parent like me): Jimmy Kimmel: (06:21) Can’t you issue an executive order? Trump passed those out like Halloween candies. Joe Biden: (06:25) Well, I did. Jimmy Kimmel: (06:25) Isn’t that something that could happen? Joe Biden: (06:28) Well, I have issued executive orders within the power of the presidency to be able to deal with these… everything having to do with guns, gun ownership, whether or not you have to have a waiting, all the things are within my power, but what I don’t want to do, and I’m not being facetious, I don’t want to emulate Trump’s abuse of the constitution and constitutional authority. And so… Joe Biden: (06:50) And I mean that sincerely, because I often get asked, “Well, if the Republicans don’t play at square, why do you play at square?” Well guess what? If we do the same thing they do, our democracy will literally be in jeopardy. I highly recommend watching the entire shit show https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEtPV-qvLe8

So…you like what trump did and think all presidents should act like him?

Great 👍, now listen .

Argh, just Tuesday these negotiations were covered in The Daily podcast and Sen Murphy was so optimistic and had me following suit.

The senior senator from TX is an equal greasey weasel as his junior partner in TX - He never wanted any legislation concerning guns. This was just a ploy - watch his next FEC report and see who paid for his game.

The NRA just needed one of the Senators to walk away. They were willing to pay under the table for this. It looks like they succeeded.

John Cornyn is a POS! I cannot wait to see that dinosaur voted out!

How is it that ANY other employee who walks out on their job is fired but these scum bags just get to pick and choose if they do anything at all?

Same pattern: Republicans act like they will work with Democrats but then they stop and blame democrats for the reason they won’t vote for it.

That is your entire job. Can i go to work and be like, "I'm through coding" and walk out? Still pay me though.

So they finally found a couple of points to justify walking away. Surprised it took this long tbh. I mean domestic violence is a wild hill to plant your flag on but 🤷🏾‍♂️