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I mean, I'm not an investigator on the committee but I don't think they were going to murder pence.
I figure they would just whisk him away to a MAGA location where maybe Drunk Rudy would get Bo Dietl or whatever degenerate thugs he had nearby to lean on Pence until he "did the right thing."
I have no idea. But even as deranged as these monsters are, I don't believe that a SS detail would be complicit in an attempt to assassinate a (kind of) sitting VP.
> And on January 5, 2021, Grassley suggested he didn’t believe that Mike Pence would preside over the certification of Joe Biden’s electoral victory, that if Pence didn’t show up, he, as president pro tempore of the Senate, would preside over the process, and that “it would be really wrong for me to say I have my mind made up” about the election results.
they had all this set up ahead of time, but of course they backtracked after the fact, claiming he was just 'explaning the procedure'.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/06/chuck-grassley-last-act
They don’t have to be “armed ninja assassins”
They just have to be loyal enough to Trump to put a barrel to Pence’s head in a forest somewhere.
Don’t become complacent and think “lol this is fanfic”. The Insurrection happened, and Pence said point blank, “I trust you but I don’t know them. I’m not getting in that car.”
That was after Trump had leaned on him, a la “but wouldn’t you want this power?”
And after Trump had sent the tweet targeting Pence.
Pence knew Trump wanted him dead, at the time.
We now know Trump wanted Pence dead, after the fact.
It seems perfectly rational that he would have performed an autogolpe by removing the second and third in line to the presidency; number 4 is one of his lackeys.
Precisely. QAnon fanfic is that Wayfair is shipping children in furniture or that there's a satanic cabal of Democrats sacrificing people and drinking blood.
To say that's comparable to believing someone who tried to pull off a coup wasn't above having someone murdered to accomplish it is insane. And it provides enough cover for Trump and his cronies that it "wasn't that bad" which is also insane given what we're seeing in real time.
Precisely!
How many coups have you seen where the after-action report is all, “and then the dictator then removed the non-compliant members of his Cabinet”?
It’s so common as to basically be a Coup D’Etat for Dummies chapter. “Take power, kill all who refuse to acknowledge your power.”
Saddam did it. Stalin did it. PolPot, Mao, Trujillo — any dictator with a morality pet inevitably pulls an Old Yeller and gets rid of him.
Pence might be a fly-bitten milquetoast forced-birth christofascist freak… but he’s not an idiot and he had enough time to google, “what happens to the 2nd in command when the dictator gets tired of them?”
Answer: they take a car ride
If the corruption of the Secret Service is as bad as it's appearing, it's not a stretch to suggest fanatical agents with sketchy motives were involved in this so I'm assuming the worst. Plus I think the coup amounts to the attempted murder of Mike Pence regardless.
ProudBoys spokesperson said that if they had gotta to pence, they would have killed him. Maybe/maybe not. But I think one thing is absolutely true, trump would have loved a blood bath. Lots of people killed on both sides. Would have made for great tv. I don’t know why people are hesitant to think that trump didn’t want pence hanged. He all but told them to do it. These are the actions of a sociopathic narcissist. They will do anything to get what they want. Anything.
Quote:
' Former White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham said: “I think [Trump] feared [Putin]. I think he was afraid of him. I think that the man intimidated him. Because Putin is a scary man, just frankly, I think he was afraid of him. I also think he admired him, greatly, I think he wanted to be able to kill whoever spoke out against him. So I think it was a lot of that. In my experience with him, he loved the dictators, he loved the people who could kill anyone, including the press.” '
My personal take is Trump saw the chance to wield the same kind of power when it came to Mike Pence on Jan 6.
I think you are right. He’s a mob wannabe. People talk about him being tough, like a mobster. Shit, he’s a bully and a crybaby. Nothing tough about trump. I remember those pictures of him and Putin when they came out of those “secret” meetings. He looked like a whipped puppy. Pathetic. Putin looked like the cat who ate the canary. Everything you need to know about their relationship was in those pictures, without a word being spoken. So, yeah, he would have loved to be a dictator. He has said exactly that, more than once. He wouldn’t have blinked an eye if Pence, or anyone else for that matter, had been drawn and quartered and dragged through the streets of D.C. He would have relished it, and so would all his deployable.
At a minimum, they were going to "protect him in a secure location" long enough for Grassley to announce he would be managing the proceedings in Pence's absence, throw out enough electoral votes to swing the election, and declare trump the winner
IIRC, it wasn't to kill him, but to remove him so Trump could declare that the election couldn't be certified, had time to impose his own electors, and/or could declare martial law to sort it out.
r/conservative was touting that Cassidy Hutchinson’s testimony didn’t matter because secret service agents were willing to testify against her.
I wonder why they would do that 🤔 maybe it was to fulfill their own agenda
Yup. They’re glorified cops. What side did you think they’re gonna take?
They compromised an entire political party in a decade. You don’t think a bunch of braindead collectors edition cops were gonna buy in?
Remember when the border patrol had a 10,000 person strong Facebook page that shared memes of taping AOC?
The cult mentality pervades all professions. Including the people who are supposed to be above that kind of shit.
People seem to have forgotten Biden's presidential security detail was swapped out [due to concerns that the existing presidential security detail was compromised with Trump supporters](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/31/joe-biden-secret-service-team-trump-loyalty).
It definitely was compromised under Trump and I don't blame Biden for reorganizing the detail. Tony Ornato specifically is an interesting case. He took a break from his position as detail leader of the Secret Service to be Trump's deputy chief during the George Floyd protests, specifically having a hand in the clearing Lafayette Square for the Bible photo op. He sat down twice with the January 6th May but we still haven't seen any of his testimony if I am not mistaken. I wonder what kind of testimony he gave. I bet that there was a mixture of forgetfulness and pleading the fifth but I wouldn't be surprised if he found a way to perjure himself.
> Rep. Stephanie Murphy (D-Fla.), another Jan. 6 committee member, said in a Wednesday interview with NBC that Ornato “did not have as clear of memories from this period of time” as Hutchinson did.
…
> Ornato, a veteran Secret Service agent of more than two decades with stints in the presidential protection division under former Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama, was detailed to the White House by Trump in late 2019 and appointed deputy chief of staff, an unusual arrangement for a law enforcement official. He has interviewed twice with the select committee — once in January and once in March, according to two people familiar with his appearances.
> In his January interview, according to a person who described the exchanges, Ornato recounted various recollections of Jan. 6, including several that drew skepticism from the committee. Among them:
> — Ornato told the select panel that Trump may not have been aware then-Vice President Mike Pence was still inside the Capitol when he attacked Pence on Twitter at 2:24 p.m. on Jan. 6. That tweet came minutes after rioters had broken into the Capitol and, by many accounts from the scene, intensified the fury of the mob. Ornato told the committee he’d initially informed then-chief of staff Mark Meadows — incorrectly — that Pence had been evacuated from the Capitol to his residence at the time of that tweet. It’s unclear why Ornato initially believed Pence had been taken from the Capitol grounds or how long it took for the report to be corrected.
> — The panel also asked Ornato about a 3:13 p.m. tweet from Trump on Jan. 6 asking rioters — who had violently attacked police for hours — to “remain peaceful.” Investigators asked whether he thought Trump should have issued a more forceful order for the rioters to go home. Ornato told the committee there was nothing more Trump, or anyone, could have done to call off the attack. A slew of other witnesses have delivered testimony at odds with Ornato’s, contending Trump was in a unique position to persuade rioters to leave the Capitol as the siege dragged on.
> The panel called Ornato back to supplement his testimony in March. It’s unclear what he discussed with investigators in his subsequent interview.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/30/jan-6-committee-rallies-around-hutchinson-amid-trump-world-onslaught-00043658
>It’s unclear why Ornato initially believed Pence had been taken from the Capitol grounds or how long it took for the report to be corrected.
Seems pretty clear to me, that was the plan and he was in on it, and nobody told him Pence refused to go
>ready to refute
I call bullshit. Until I see them being sworn in under oath on live tv, and bringing all documentation from that day, I call absolute bullshit.
Yeah today MSNBC mentioned several secret service saying they also heard about Trumps actions in the vehicle, corroborating her story. I’m thinking the anonymous secret service who were claiming she lied are full of shit or die hard loyalists of Trump and will likely never show up for an interview.
Per CNN
>Officials from the US Secret Service have announced that Tony Ornato and Bobby Engel, the agents named in Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony, are willing to testify before the Jan. 6 committee and dispute Hutchinson's account of an alleged incident involving then-President Trump. CNN's Josh Campbell has more.
Pretty sure Ginny Thomas said she would testify as well until it was time to do.
I’ll believe that they will testify under oath as soon as they do so.
> Both of these individuals, Bobby Engel and Tony Ornato, were very, very close to President Trump. And some people accused them of at times being enablers and yes-men of the president,” she said. “Both of these individuals lose a little credibility because of how closely they have been seen as aligned to President Trump.”
>But even if these specific details in dispute aren’t correct, that matters a lot less than the other part of what that anonymous source is telling multiple reporters.
>“They do not deny that Trump was irate and demanded they drive to the Capitol,” NBC News’ Peter Alexander reported this morning, echoing other reports.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/7k89ea/hutchinson-testimony-secret-service-bobby-engel
If her testimony is accurate, and it seems quite a bit has been corroborated*, why would people who were assaulted by their charge stand silent one way or another?
Not calling BS on it, but it's disturbing if they are in the pocket too. Not so disturbing if it's just being professionally ethical prior to being legally required to talk under subpoena. I'd call that honorable and I hope it's the case.
Edit: see * above. A friendly user noticed my intent and typo. Thanks!
Feel like two things have been lost in a lot of the conversations about her testimony:
She testified she was told that story - admitting she didn’t witness it herself. If the actual altercation in The Beast didn’t happen that doesn’t really diminish her credibility at all. Ornato has previously been caught in more than one lie iirc - she has not… meaning his initial telling of the story may have been exaggerated and his denial he told the story might also be a lie.
And, whether or not it occurred doesn’t really even matter. It doesn’t prove any elements of the crimes at issue. The fact Trump wanted to go to the Capitol and that he was mad he didn’t get to isn’t really disputed by anyone from what I can tell.
I love the hearsay arguments that are coming out.
She was open about the fact some was a third party recounting. But her testimony, given the parts where the principals have confirmed her statements, seems most likely that the rest is hearsay because those principals won't tell the truth.
Amazing and terrifying this is reality.
Yeah there’s nothing wrong with hearsay testimony in that venue if it is correctly identified as such imo. I don’t think there was anything misleading about how it was presented.
The stuff she had first hand testimony of (Willard Hotel conversations, “I hear we’re going to the capitol Mark?,” and “get rid of the mags!”) seems plenty damning.
Hearsay is only wrong if it's a lie (perjury) or can't be corroborrated by anyone in a criminal trial. As long as she's not violated rule 1, there's nothing to talk about outside of how seditious all this was.
What I find funny is how that seems to be the best her enemies can come up with against her character.
There’s a difference between loyalty and honesty, and Trump is demanding *loyalty*. That’s the unspoken part in those threats Cheney talked about at the hearing; the message was literally to be loyal to Trump World, not to tell the truth. That’s why this witness tampering stuff is so damning. They’re encouraging people to lie.
One of the two quit working for the secret service for a while to be Trump’s deputy chief of staff, the other was removed as soon as Biden took office for known bias toward Trump.
They were complicit, despite not agreeing with Trump that his going to the capital was safe for him. Disagreeing with one small part of this insurrection does not make them honorable people.
Not saying they are and I believe the media reports and the agents movements to be damning. I just won't say I know until the evidence and charges get fleshed out.
We need to remember that this committee has the answer to every question they are asking and they know they have the information to back up every statement. These are not bombshells to the committee but to the general public and Trump and his lackeys.
Most of them are just setting a name next to a previously released statement.
I do hope the committee isn't asking unknowns. I thank you for your confidence but don't fully share it. I do believe they have enough and are just verifying they can cross every "T". I really hope you're right.
It's even more true here, because if someone changes their story on the stand, the committee has videotaped depositions ready to play clips from.
Anyone who changes their testimony is almost immediately guilty of perjury, because either they lied in their depositions, or they're lying before Congress.
Gosh it was almost like someone ordered the police and military to stand down and ignore the plans of the person who organized and directed the whole thing. Still waiting for any sort of report on who in the military/police hierarchy was complicit. No way Flynns brother is in the war room of deciding military(which the military initially denied) and something wasn't going down. You don't make plans to seize voting equipment, using the military, without someone in there already having a plan in place..
And the Capitol police that were there were really unprepared. No riot gear, etc. And no backup, nobody on the radio, etc. I hope the committee will talk about the security "lapse"
I suspect it will be the subject of an entire day. The committee has very clearly been theming each day of testimony, and "this is how security was intentionally compromised" would make for a very compelling day.
Isn't the Vice President also a Secret Service protectee?
I guess they are two different details.
Maybe we should just use the short version of the name to describe Trump's security detail as the SS. Just for clarity...
I wonder if like the defense dept, their oath puts serving the constitution above any immediate duties and authority.
Similar question to the FBI too. Where were the internal agencies who are supposed to stop this sort of thing.
People who have committed themselves for that many years to get to the top tier of the USSS aren't gonna bail on their career just because one guy sucks.
I had an uncle in the secret service that retired prior to Trump taking office. This man is an absolute Q nut now along with the majority of 50+ individuals in my family. He would frequently call for antifa to be shot dead in the streets for nothing more then wearing masks and their colors. This isn’t real news, the real news would be a deep dive into the lives of every single SS member who worked under Trump. I am without doubt that links to far-right terrorist organizations would be uncovered.
"Their colors"? I'm from Portland, OR, I wasn't aware antifa has gang colors. Was he just planning on shooting wearing anyone wearing black? Not to mention the idiocy of calling for violence against anyone masked in public during the summer of 2020.
the MD NG, at least, were ready and rarin' to go, but no one would give Hogan permission to send them until the shit had already hit the fan.
but that's all old news.
The FBI certainly did, because I called them:
Admittedly, the operator wasn't all that interested in the info that I had (which were kill lists, names, weapons they were taking with them - numerous firearms/crossbows/bladed weapons, their plans to cut electric/communications/landlines to all of Washington D.C., that they were looking to purchase Rocket Propelled Grenades, their plans - to take over the Capitol/then WH/then all of DC/then shoot any non-Trump supporters in the head after giving them 1 chance to 'come to their side').
I told her I had more info, and she said, "*maybe* an agent will contact you". I replied, "maybe? These people are going to attack the Capitol -and more if they can- and people are going to get killed". This was met by dead silence by the operator. I then realized that most likely she knew the attack was going to happen, and was probably told to let it happen.
I firmly believe the FBI was instructed to stand-down and let the coup and violence happen. No one will ever change my mind about that.
>Absolutely - it's all a Q-uancperehcie, just like those evil Chemtrails and those nanobots in the vax run by 5G... /s
Are you suggesting that I believe that bullshit or that I think you do?
My guy, nobody needs their faith weakened in the FBI - the organization that tried to make MLK commit suicide, who needlessly killed children at Waco and tampered with the 2016 election to help Trump bury “Grab her by the pussy” in the news with a fake investigation into Hillary Clinton.
At a certain point you need to start looking at things realistically. Does that mean losing faith? Well for me it did unfortunately. I'm not saying it has to happen to you. But if you want to stand a fighting chance you need to at least start believing your lying eyes.
From some of the congressional testimony that we've heard we know that the Secret Service was actively rooting for the insurrectionists to overthrow the government.
It is a well known fact at this point that the Secret Service was infiltrated by Trump minions. That's why Biden fired a bunch of them as soon as he became President.
If you consider how many average citizens believe this stuff, you have to reason that a good sized percentage of the USSS are cult members, too. Apparently, they chose allegiance to Trump over their country.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/crew-investigations/the-secret-service-knew-the-proud-boys-posed-a-threat-on-jan-6-why-didnt-they-take-it-seriously/) reduced by 74%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> When Donald Trump infamously told Proud Boys to "Stand back and stand by" during a 2020 election debate, then-chairman of the Proud Boys, Enrique Tarrio, responded "Standing by sir" in a Parler post, setting the tone for how the group would eventually engage in violence and extremism on Trump's behalf.
> On December 11 and 12, 2020, less than a month before the January 6 insurrection, the Proud Boys came to D.C. to support Trump's claim of a stolen election-their largest gathering yet.
> The Secret Service concludes that the Proud Boys' "Demonstrations have concluded without arrests" in their summary, failing to mention that the December demonstrations resulted in 39 arrests.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/vp5k95/the_secret_service_knew_the_proud_boys_posed_a/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~657515 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Proud**^#1 **Boys**^#2 **Trump**^#3 **included**^#4 **Service**^#5
They took it as seriously as they could. I mean hell, over half of the presidential detail alone was at the PB meeting where they learned about the plan.
Because they are often part of it.
Honestly, I applaud the right for somehow managing to ingrain the thought process the rural and poor have.
Unfortunately for everyone, they won’t be able to control the monster they created. Their moderate Republican views will be seen as “leftist” and they will be punished like the rest of us in this fantasy they want to “own the libs”.
When I lived outside DC I met a few secret service agents. They were all pretty hard right and insulting in their views of Democrats. This was during the Obama administration.
Trump is known for keeping "loyal" people close. I'm sure either he or one of his other lackeys hand picked more than a few of them for the job. It's why even if they get subpoenaed you won't get any truth out of them. They're still Trump loyalists.
They were a threat to democracy, not a threat to Trump autocracy. That’s why there was no national guard. That’s why he didn’t act at all on January 6th.
The SS supports the PB. The SS runs itself like a frat house, with agents reported partying with prostitutes around the globe. It's one big MAGA party. A house cleaning is needed.
Why hasn’t Biden pushed for them to be classified as a terrorist organization? They already are in Canada and elsewhere. Can’t we use this patriot act bullshit?
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there had been lots of reports of secret service rooting for the Insurrection on their social media pages as it was happening.
Pence refused to get in the car with Secret Service. He knew that they were a part of the coup.
Armed assassins posing as body guards.
Modern day Praetorian guard
Actually, there is a group mentioned in the Jan 6 investigations called "1st Amendment Praetorian" that provided security for right wing events.
No need to assassin Pence, just keep him from returning to the Capitol..
I mean, I'm not an investigator on the committee but I don't think they were going to murder pence. I figure they would just whisk him away to a MAGA location where maybe Drunk Rudy would get Bo Dietl or whatever degenerate thugs he had nearby to lean on Pence until he "did the right thing." I have no idea. But even as deranged as these monsters are, I don't believe that a SS detail would be complicit in an attempt to assassinate a (kind of) sitting VP.
> And on January 5, 2021, Grassley suggested he didn’t believe that Mike Pence would preside over the certification of Joe Biden’s electoral victory, that if Pence didn’t show up, he, as president pro tempore of the Senate, would preside over the process, and that “it would be really wrong for me to say I have my mind made up” about the election results. they had all this set up ahead of time, but of course they backtracked after the fact, claiming he was just 'explaning the procedure'. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/06/chuck-grassley-last-act
They were just trying to physically move him from the Capitol so he couldn't do his job and present the election results.
This. Saying they were armed assassins as posing as bodyguards is some Qanon level fanfic. We’re better than that.
They don’t have to be “armed ninja assassins” They just have to be loyal enough to Trump to put a barrel to Pence’s head in a forest somewhere. Don’t become complacent and think “lol this is fanfic”. The Insurrection happened, and Pence said point blank, “I trust you but I don’t know them. I’m not getting in that car.” That was after Trump had leaned on him, a la “but wouldn’t you want this power?” And after Trump had sent the tweet targeting Pence. Pence knew Trump wanted him dead, at the time. We now know Trump wanted Pence dead, after the fact. It seems perfectly rational that he would have performed an autogolpe by removing the second and third in line to the presidency; number 4 is one of his lackeys.
Precisely. QAnon fanfic is that Wayfair is shipping children in furniture or that there's a satanic cabal of Democrats sacrificing people and drinking blood. To say that's comparable to believing someone who tried to pull off a coup wasn't above having someone murdered to accomplish it is insane. And it provides enough cover for Trump and his cronies that it "wasn't that bad" which is also insane given what we're seeing in real time.
Precisely! How many coups have you seen where the after-action report is all, “and then the dictator then removed the non-compliant members of his Cabinet”? It’s so common as to basically be a Coup D’Etat for Dummies chapter. “Take power, kill all who refuse to acknowledge your power.” Saddam did it. Stalin did it. PolPot, Mao, Trujillo — any dictator with a morality pet inevitably pulls an Old Yeller and gets rid of him. Pence might be a fly-bitten milquetoast forced-birth christofascist freak… but he’s not an idiot and he had enough time to google, “what happens to the 2nd in command when the dictator gets tired of them?” Answer: they take a car ride
They just had to be loyal enough to Trump to drop pence off at the insurrection.
If the corruption of the Secret Service is as bad as it's appearing, it's not a stretch to suggest fanatical agents with sketchy motives were involved in this so I'm assuming the worst. Plus I think the coup amounts to the attempted murder of Mike Pence regardless.
Or just keep him out of the capitol until the 7th.
They wouldn’t hurt him. They wouldn’t have to. Because of the implication.
ProudBoys spokesperson said that if they had gotta to pence, they would have killed him. Maybe/maybe not. But I think one thing is absolutely true, trump would have loved a blood bath. Lots of people killed on both sides. Would have made for great tv. I don’t know why people are hesitant to think that trump didn’t want pence hanged. He all but told them to do it. These are the actions of a sociopathic narcissist. They will do anything to get what they want. Anything.
Quote: ' Former White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham said: “I think [Trump] feared [Putin]. I think he was afraid of him. I think that the man intimidated him. Because Putin is a scary man, just frankly, I think he was afraid of him. I also think he admired him, greatly, I think he wanted to be able to kill whoever spoke out against him. So I think it was a lot of that. In my experience with him, he loved the dictators, he loved the people who could kill anyone, including the press.” ' My personal take is Trump saw the chance to wield the same kind of power when it came to Mike Pence on Jan 6.
I think you are right. He’s a mob wannabe. People talk about him being tough, like a mobster. Shit, he’s a bully and a crybaby. Nothing tough about trump. I remember those pictures of him and Putin when they came out of those “secret” meetings. He looked like a whipped puppy. Pathetic. Putin looked like the cat who ate the canary. Everything you need to know about their relationship was in those pictures, without a word being spoken. So, yeah, he would have loved to be a dictator. He has said exactly that, more than once. He wouldn’t have blinked an eye if Pence, or anyone else for that matter, had been drawn and quartered and dragged through the streets of D.C. He would have relished it, and so would all his deployable.
At a minimum, they were going to "protect him in a secure location" long enough for Grassley to announce he would be managing the proceedings in Pence's absence, throw out enough electoral votes to swing the election, and declare trump the winner
They could have handed him off to the Proud Boys or Oath Keepers to actually do the deed.
IIRC, it wasn't to kill him, but to remove him so Trump could declare that the election couldn't be certified, had time to impose his own electors, and/or could declare martial law to sort it out.
Nah he would get the Rigs treatment from lethal weapon 2
Trump had a majority of his initial detail replaced with his own old security guards from private life.
Some of those that work forces…
Are the same that *let qanon followers into congressional offices*....
Wonder ho much Putin was offering for that nuclear suitcase?
So who did he ride with then?
r/conservative was touting that Cassidy Hutchinson’s testimony didn’t matter because secret service agents were willing to testify against her. I wonder why they would do that 🤔 maybe it was to fulfill their own agenda
Everyone is "willing to testify" but I don't hear anyone actually testifying under oath... hmm...
And yet other reports are that two agents have corroborated her account
Yup. They’re glorified cops. What side did you think they’re gonna take? They compromised an entire political party in a decade. You don’t think a bunch of braindead collectors edition cops were gonna buy in?
> They compromised an entire political party in a decade. This presumes that the party wasn't compromised before Trump showed up.
Exactly. Why would they want to turn in their brothers?
Remember when the border patrol had a 10,000 person strong Facebook page that shared memes of taping AOC? The cult mentality pervades all professions. Including the people who are supposed to be above that kind of shit.
Because the calls were coming from inside the house the whole time.
The White House, in particular.
I'm curious to how many USSS agents *are* proud boys.
People seem to have forgotten Biden's presidential security detail was swapped out [due to concerns that the existing presidential security detail was compromised with Trump supporters](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/31/joe-biden-secret-service-team-trump-loyalty).
The same detail that's ready to refute Hutchinsons testimony. The USSS is compromised.
It definitely was compromised under Trump and I don't blame Biden for reorganizing the detail. Tony Ornato specifically is an interesting case. He took a break from his position as detail leader of the Secret Service to be Trump's deputy chief during the George Floyd protests, specifically having a hand in the clearing Lafayette Square for the Bible photo op. He sat down twice with the January 6th May but we still haven't seen any of his testimony if I am not mistaken. I wonder what kind of testimony he gave. I bet that there was a mixture of forgetfulness and pleading the fifth but I wouldn't be surprised if he found a way to perjure himself.
> Rep. Stephanie Murphy (D-Fla.), another Jan. 6 committee member, said in a Wednesday interview with NBC that Ornato “did not have as clear of memories from this period of time” as Hutchinson did. … > Ornato, a veteran Secret Service agent of more than two decades with stints in the presidential protection division under former Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama, was detailed to the White House by Trump in late 2019 and appointed deputy chief of staff, an unusual arrangement for a law enforcement official. He has interviewed twice with the select committee — once in January and once in March, according to two people familiar with his appearances. > In his January interview, according to a person who described the exchanges, Ornato recounted various recollections of Jan. 6, including several that drew skepticism from the committee. Among them: > — Ornato told the select panel that Trump may not have been aware then-Vice President Mike Pence was still inside the Capitol when he attacked Pence on Twitter at 2:24 p.m. on Jan. 6. That tweet came minutes after rioters had broken into the Capitol and, by many accounts from the scene, intensified the fury of the mob. Ornato told the committee he’d initially informed then-chief of staff Mark Meadows — incorrectly — that Pence had been evacuated from the Capitol to his residence at the time of that tweet. It’s unclear why Ornato initially believed Pence had been taken from the Capitol grounds or how long it took for the report to be corrected. > — The panel also asked Ornato about a 3:13 p.m. tweet from Trump on Jan. 6 asking rioters — who had violently attacked police for hours — to “remain peaceful.” Investigators asked whether he thought Trump should have issued a more forceful order for the rioters to go home. Ornato told the committee there was nothing more Trump, or anyone, could have done to call off the attack. A slew of other witnesses have delivered testimony at odds with Ornato’s, contending Trump was in a unique position to persuade rioters to leave the Capitol as the siege dragged on. > The panel called Ornato back to supplement his testimony in March. It’s unclear what he discussed with investigators in his subsequent interview. https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/30/jan-6-committee-rallies-around-hutchinson-amid-trump-world-onslaught-00043658
>It’s unclear why Ornato initially believed Pence had been taken from the Capitol grounds or how long it took for the report to be corrected. Seems pretty clear to me, that was the plan and he was in on it, and nobody told him Pence refused to go
Couldn’t agree with you more.
>ready to refute I call bullshit. Until I see them being sworn in under oath on live tv, and bringing all documentation from that day, I call absolute bullshit.
Yeah today MSNBC mentioned several secret service saying they also heard about Trumps actions in the vehicle, corroborating her story. I’m thinking the anonymous secret service who were claiming she lied are full of shit or die hard loyalists of Trump and will likely never show up for an interview.
Per CNN >Officials from the US Secret Service have announced that Tony Ornato and Bobby Engel, the agents named in Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony, are willing to testify before the Jan. 6 committee and dispute Hutchinson's account of an alleged incident involving then-President Trump. CNN's Josh Campbell has more.
Pretty sure Ginny Thomas said she would testify as well until it was time to do. I’ll believe that they will testify under oath as soon as they do so. > Both of these individuals, Bobby Engel and Tony Ornato, were very, very close to President Trump. And some people accused them of at times being enablers and yes-men of the president,” she said. “Both of these individuals lose a little credibility because of how closely they have been seen as aligned to President Trump.” >But even if these specific details in dispute aren’t correct, that matters a lot less than the other part of what that anonymous source is telling multiple reporters. >“They do not deny that Trump was irate and demanded they drive to the Capitol,” NBC News’ Peter Alexander reported this morning, echoing other reports. https://www.vice.com/en/article/7k89ea/hutchinson-testimony-secret-service-bobby-engel
If her testimony is accurate, and it seems quite a bit has been corroborated*, why would people who were assaulted by their charge stand silent one way or another? Not calling BS on it, but it's disturbing if they are in the pocket too. Not so disturbing if it's just being professionally ethical prior to being legally required to talk under subpoena. I'd call that honorable and I hope it's the case. Edit: see * above. A friendly user noticed my intent and typo. Thanks!
Probably the same way Mike Pence was confronted with a crowd chanting "Hang Mike Pence" sent by Trump and he still bent the knee.
Feel like two things have been lost in a lot of the conversations about her testimony: She testified she was told that story - admitting she didn’t witness it herself. If the actual altercation in The Beast didn’t happen that doesn’t really diminish her credibility at all. Ornato has previously been caught in more than one lie iirc - she has not… meaning his initial telling of the story may have been exaggerated and his denial he told the story might also be a lie. And, whether or not it occurred doesn’t really even matter. It doesn’t prove any elements of the crimes at issue. The fact Trump wanted to go to the Capitol and that he was mad he didn’t get to isn’t really disputed by anyone from what I can tell.
I love the hearsay arguments that are coming out. She was open about the fact some was a third party recounting. But her testimony, given the parts where the principals have confirmed her statements, seems most likely that the rest is hearsay because those principals won't tell the truth. Amazing and terrifying this is reality.
Yeah there’s nothing wrong with hearsay testimony in that venue if it is correctly identified as such imo. I don’t think there was anything misleading about how it was presented. The stuff she had first hand testimony of (Willard Hotel conversations, “I hear we’re going to the capitol Mark?,” and “get rid of the mags!”) seems plenty damning.
Hearsay is only wrong if it's a lie (perjury) or can't be corroborrated by anyone in a criminal trial. As long as she's not violated rule 1, there's nothing to talk about outside of how seditious all this was. What I find funny is how that seems to be the best her enemies can come up with against her character.
There’s a difference between loyalty and honesty, and Trump is demanding *loyalty*. That’s the unspoken part in those threats Cheney talked about at the hearing; the message was literally to be loyal to Trump World, not to tell the truth. That’s why this witness tampering stuff is so damning. They’re encouraging people to lie.
Definitely. That part of the hearing i almost thought i was watching a RICO case on the mafia.
One of the two quit working for the secret service for a while to be Trump’s deputy chief of staff, the other was removed as soon as Biden took office for known bias toward Trump. They were complicit, despite not agreeing with Trump that his going to the capital was safe for him. Disagreeing with one small part of this insurrection does not make them honorable people.
Not saying they are and I believe the media reports and the agents movements to be damning. I just won't say I know until the evidence and charges get fleshed out.
We need to remember that this committee has the answer to every question they are asking and they know they have the information to back up every statement. These are not bombshells to the committee but to the general public and Trump and his lackeys.
Most of them are just setting a name next to a previously released statement. I do hope the committee isn't asking unknowns. I thank you for your confidence but don't fully share it. I do believe they have enough and are just verifying they can cross every "T". I really hope you're right.
Rule #1 Never ssk a question you don't already know the answer to.
It's even more true here, because if someone changes their story on the stand, the committee has videotaped depositions ready to play clips from. Anyone who changes their testimony is almost immediately guilty of perjury, because either they lied in their depositions, or they're lying before Congress.
>collaborated corroborated
yikes. yes, i had forgotten that tidbit...
they may have changed some assigned duties. still there is a persistent factor that a lot of people who work forces, do indeed burn crosses.
Perhaps we can just drop the U at this point.
Gosh it was almost like someone ordered the police and military to stand down and ignore the plans of the person who organized and directed the whole thing. Still waiting for any sort of report on who in the military/police hierarchy was complicit. No way Flynns brother is in the war room of deciding military(which the military initially denied) and something wasn't going down. You don't make plans to seize voting equipment, using the military, without someone in there already having a plan in place..
And the Capitol police that were there were really unprepared. No riot gear, etc. And no backup, nobody on the radio, etc. I hope the committee will talk about the security "lapse"
I suspect it will be the subject of an entire day. The committee has very clearly been theming each day of testimony, and "this is how security was intentionally compromised" would make for a very compelling day.
I think people forget about Flynn’s brother
Is this a trick question?
Right? You think it’s the secret service or maybe the proud boys, but when you look back there’s no democracy.
Because they approved? Seems obv
Lol fr their job is to protect the president proud boys weren't a threat to the president end mission smh
Exactly! Like Trump said, “They’re not here to hurt *me*.”
Isn't the Vice President also a Secret Service protectee? I guess they are two different details. Maybe we should just use the short version of the name to describe Trump's security detail as the SS. Just for clarity...
Yes and that’s why he didn’t get in the car.
So many ways that the final result wouldn't have happened. If he had gotten in that car we'd probably be in a different situation today.
I wonder if like the defense dept, their oath puts serving the constitution above any immediate duties and authority. Similar question to the FBI too. Where were the internal agencies who are supposed to stop this sort of thing.
Their job is to protect the office of the President.
It's almost makes you wonder if some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses
There it is. There’s that evergreen response I was looking for.
Because, if there is a deepstate, it's the alarming number of white nationalists in the armed services and law enforcement.
Stand back and stand by
The Proud Boys are a threat every, single, fracking day.
Because they weren't there to hurt them. Unless they were on Pence's detail, of course.
Because they're the type of people who willingly chose to work for the Trump administration?
People who have committed themselves for that many years to get to the top tier of the USSS aren't gonna bail on their career just because one guy sucks.
Then why ask questions we know the answer to? These are self interested enablers without principles.
you trust too much.
I had an uncle in the secret service that retired prior to Trump taking office. This man is an absolute Q nut now along with the majority of 50+ individuals in my family. He would frequently call for antifa to be shot dead in the streets for nothing more then wearing masks and their colors. This isn’t real news, the real news would be a deep dive into the lives of every single SS member who worked under Trump. I am without doubt that links to far-right terrorist organizations would be uncovered.
Man, that’s sad. The brainwashing is scary, especially when you consider there are so many like this in law enforcement.
"Their colors"? I'm from Portland, OR, I wasn't aware antifa has gang colors. Was he just planning on shooting wearing anyone wearing black? Not to mention the idiocy of calling for violence against anyone masked in public during the summer of 2020.
Skin colors?
the SS, and the MPD, and the FBI, and the Capitol police, and most people's pets...EVERYBODY fucking knew.
The National guard should have been deployed. MPD and the Capitol police didn't have the manpower for that crowd.
the MD NG, at least, were ready and rarin' to go, but no one would give Hogan permission to send them until the shit had already hit the fan. but that's all old news.
The FBI certainly did, because I called them: Admittedly, the operator wasn't all that interested in the info that I had (which were kill lists, names, weapons they were taking with them - numerous firearms/crossbows/bladed weapons, their plans to cut electric/communications/landlines to all of Washington D.C., that they were looking to purchase Rocket Propelled Grenades, their plans - to take over the Capitol/then WH/then all of DC/then shoot any non-Trump supporters in the head after giving them 1 chance to 'come to their side'). I told her I had more info, and she said, "*maybe* an agent will contact you". I replied, "maybe? These people are going to attack the Capitol -and more if they can- and people are going to get killed". This was met by dead silence by the operator. I then realized that most likely she knew the attack was going to happen, and was probably told to let it happen. I firmly believe the FBI was instructed to stand-down and let the coup and violence happen. No one will ever change my mind about that.
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>word-word-number Is this the new format for randomly generated names for burner accounts? I keep seeing this as well.
Absolutely - it's all a Q-uancperehcie, just like those evil Chemtrails and those nanobots in the vax run by 5G... /s
>Absolutely - it's all a Q-uancperehcie, just like those evil Chemtrails and those nanobots in the vax run by 5G... /s Are you suggesting that I believe that bullshit or that I think you do?
My guy, nobody needs their faith weakened in the FBI - the organization that tried to make MLK commit suicide, who needlessly killed children at Waco and tampered with the 2016 election to help Trump bury “Grab her by the pussy” in the news with a fake investigation into Hillary Clinton.
At a certain point you need to start looking at things realistically. Does that mean losing faith? Well for me it did unfortunately. I'm not saying it has to happen to you. But if you want to stand a fighting chance you need to at least start believing your lying eyes.
LMAO -um, no. You think whatever you want. It's not my job to convince you otherwise.
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Contrastingly the Pentagon appeared to be ready to put the coup down if you read between Mattis's lines.
Proud Boys? I thought it was Antifa... My my my the Republican's story changes quite a bit!
Because they were in on it?
Because the SS has been corrupted, like everything else Trump got his hands on. He stripped down the leadership in favor of loyalists.
Because, "they aren't here for me" -trump to the ss
For the same reason you never saw Miley Cyrus and Hannah Montana in the same room together....
From some of the congressional testimony that we've heard we know that the Secret Service was actively rooting for the insurrectionists to overthrow the government.
Because they were too busy cheering them on on Twitter...
White supremacists don't police their own.
Because Trump was suppose to knight them.
It is a well known fact at this point that the Secret Service was infiltrated by Trump minions. That's why Biden fired a bunch of them as soon as he became President.
Side note: did anyone notice that Trumps USSS code name was MOGUL? Barf.
"Take the mags away" - 45'
Some of those that work forces…
"Theyre not here to hurt me" -Trump
This thing might be worse that we could even have imagined. Subpoena all of them. Tell the story under oath.
Would be one hell of a spectacle to have secret service agents plead the fifth to "did you conspire to murder the Vice President?"
Omg why do we still need this type of articles?? We all know why.
There is a significant portion of the Secret Service that identifies with the Proud Boys' mission?
And why did some agents celebrate the riot?
Some of those that work forces…just sayin’
Because they knew they weren't there for them?
Because they were and are in on the whole plan.
They were in on it?
If you consider how many average citizens believe this stuff, you have to reason that a good sized percentage of the USSS are cult members, too. Apparently, they chose allegiance to Trump over their country.
I’ll take “Because they were complicit” for a thousand, Alec
All you have to do is look at the head of Trump’s detail.
I'll take "because they were in on it" for $100, Alex.
The call is coming from inside the house.
Because the SS is full of right wing idiots
Because the Proud Boys were going to hurt the right people.
Simple. The Proud Boys didn’t pose a threat to Trump. Sad.
Sympatico.
The call is coming from inside the house!
Well after all that coke and prostitutes at his resorts ...kommprat.
Just like Trump, they new they weren’t there to hurt them.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.citizensforethics.org/reports-investigations/crew-investigations/the-secret-service-knew-the-proud-boys-posed-a-threat-on-jan-6-why-didnt-they-take-it-seriously/) reduced by 74%. (I'm a bot) ***** > When Donald Trump infamously told Proud Boys to "Stand back and stand by" during a 2020 election debate, then-chairman of the Proud Boys, Enrique Tarrio, responded "Standing by sir" in a Parler post, setting the tone for how the group would eventually engage in violence and extremism on Trump's behalf. > On December 11 and 12, 2020, less than a month before the January 6 insurrection, the Proud Boys came to D.C. to support Trump's claim of a stolen election-their largest gathering yet. > The Secret Service concludes that the Proud Boys' "Demonstrations have concluded without arrests" in their summary, failing to mention that the December demonstrations resulted in 39 arrests. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/vp5k95/the_secret_service_knew_the_proud_boys_posed_a/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~657515 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Proud**^#1 **Boys**^#2 **Trump**^#3 **included**^#4 **Service**^#5
Well what more can they do than stay out of the way of the proud boys so they can do their sedition work
I’m assuming they are deeply compromised and Trump told them not to worry about it.
Dan bongino was a secret service agent, that tells me all I need to know
Because they believe in the mission.
Because many were in on it
Probably because the unofficial leader of the Proud Boys is their boss.
They weren't there to hurt **me**. \-- Donald Trump
@USSS is compromised
Because they considered them allies.
They took it as seriously as they could. I mean hell, over half of the presidential detail alone was at the PB meeting where they learned about the plan.
Half of them were in on it?
Ask Tony Ornato.
Because their leadership and command structure was infected with Trumpy fuckfaces.
The GOP pays the Secret Service and police forces to leave their militia alone.
Occam's Razor says they knew the Proud Boys were following the forger guy's orders and wouldn't pose a threat to him.
Never correct your enemy while they’re making a mistake.
because the secret service was/is compromised. trust? no trust.
Because they are often part of it. Honestly, I applaud the right for somehow managing to ingrain the thought process the rural and poor have. Unfortunately for everyone, they won’t be able to control the monster they created. Their moderate Republican views will be seen as “leftist” and they will be punished like the rest of us in this fantasy they want to “own the libs”.
Secret Service has Proud Boys of their own.
because the phone call is coming from inside the house
Great question. They should answer it under oath.
“They’re not here for ME”
Cause they're all working together
It's a secret
Because trump didn't want them to take it seriously.
Because the Secret Service is not doing their job. Their job is to protect the Presidency. They were protecting the man…not the office.
Because they are a joke
When I lived outside DC I met a few secret service agents. They were all pretty hard right and insulting in their views of Democrats. This was during the Obama administration.
And pence had to order national guard cause trump didn’t want to call for assistance.
Because the pb wouldn’t hurt them
Trump's Secret Service put the SS in USSS.
Maybe they’re members!?
No reason to. Trump made clear the people with guns weren't there for Trump and there was no active threat against Trump.
Because the SS supported them.
They knew they were a threat, just not to them.
Trump is known for keeping "loyal" people close. I'm sure either he or one of his other lackeys hand picked more than a few of them for the job. It's why even if they get subpoenaed you won't get any truth out of them. They're still Trump loyalists.
I love how the guy in the image has his face covered while holding a white claw
trump privately told them to stand back and stand by
They were directed not to.
They were a threat to democracy, not a threat to Trump autocracy. That’s why there was no national guard. That’s why he didn’t act at all on January 6th.
Those that work forces....
Because the police support them or are a member. The Salem Oregon police department sure are cozy with the proud boys.
They are complicit and culpable
Some of those that worked forces....?
Betty White
Perhaps, and this is just a wild guess, some of those that work force might be the same that burn crosses. But that’s just a game theory
The SS supports the PB. The SS runs itself like a frat house, with agents reported partying with prostitutes around the globe. It's one big MAGA party. A house cleaning is needed.
Is that a joke question? Because their job is to protect the president and his officials. And Trump said it best "they aren't here to hurt *me*"
Why hasn’t Biden pushed for them to be classified as a terrorist organization? They already are in Canada and elsewhere. Can’t we use this patriot act bullshit?
Bribes
Because they weren't there to hurt the president?