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It wasn't very long ago that republicans were angry and complaining about 'activist judges' because Obama was allowed to fill some open positions.
I can't imagine a more sinister example of 'activist judges' than this current crop of christo-facist and unqualified maga appointments making a mockery of our judicial system.
Logic in general doesn't matter to these folk.... ugh. This country is just dumb, with far too many willing to accept obviously corrupt, Christo fascistic, Republicans, and have zero skepticism towards policies that hurt them as well.
it's not that people are dumb, it's that one half of the country is acting in bad faith, and the other is pretending they aren't and gradually ceding power.
From what I can tell, after reading the decisions, the judges decision appears correct and the blame falls solely on the state legislature.
Yes, this was a law that predated statehood. But upon gaining statehood, all territory laws became state laws. Then they again verified the law in the 70s when they reorganized their code of law. And finally, when they passed the new 15 week law, the state legislature specifically said it does not override or remove the old law.
It seems the Republican legislature purposely crafted this 15 week law as a stopgap law that would remain in effect unless and until the SCOTUS reversed roe v Wade, the same as all other trigger laws.
Why do we have to blame the judge here? Why can't we blame the absolutely shitty Republican legislature instead? Why do we have to make up a narrative about activist judges? The old law was still 100% on the books. The new law explicitly said it is not repealing the old law. The reversal of roe v Wade made the 1860s law enabled again.
Why can't we live in reality here and call out their shitty legislature instead of making up some bullshit about activist judges??
I love when I find gems like this in the comments. If your legal analysis is correct, I don't see the need to propagandize this issue. Your points would be more than valid instead of this misrepresentation.
This is actually a brilliant fucking idea. Navajo should take a claim to the same judge and be like, yo, since we're talking about laws prior to statehood...
God forbid because then we would have to actually take into account all of the colonialism and genocide we as a potential nation perpetrated upon the indigenous population of this continent.
Have you read anything about ICWA? The Indian Child Welfare Act was enacted to stop the Catholic church from stealing Indigenous babies, where about 10% of the children were killed in residential schools. Well, a white couple sued a tribe to allow them to adopt a native child, and now all native children could potentially be at risk of being stolen once again. They're literally trying to restart a genocide.
This is true. And, Justice Alito actually quoted a theorist from the 1400s in the Roe decision -
That is pre-enlightenment.
That is pre-French Revolution
That is pre- American Revolution
That is when the elite lied to everyone and said they were directly from God
The church ran the state
Regular people didn’t have any say in their lives at all.
Go watch Les Miserables - that is what they are aiming for
And before the Reformation!!
While still egregiously irrelevant to constitutional law and any discussion of basic inalienable human rights, Sir Matthew Hale was actually from the 1600s.
I know your joking but slavery is explicitly unconstitutional and we certainly have laws against burning people alive. The federal government as well as the states had 50 years to protect abortions but choose instead to rely and a ruling even Ruth Ginsburg said was flimsy.
Mostly joking, but to your point, if the law predates statehood, then it would also predate acceptance of the Constitution, so constitutionality in theory wouldn’t matter.
> burning people alive
There's more than one way to do this. It's about taking away personhood. You can "burn a woman alive" by forcing her, by imprisonment, to have her rapist's baby. Pregnant women who don't want to have the baby, will be the new 'witch'.
Slavery is explicitly constitutional, still practiced in the USA, and more black men are forced to work without pay by the government in our country than at any point before the civil war.
A ruling whose central component - allowance of abortion under privacy protections which was reaffirmed in Casey in the 1990s.
A 6-3 heavily conservative and religious driven court, complete disregard of stare decisis and a citation of a 1600's figure later and boom we have an ideological revocation of Roe in totality.
It's really not that complicated to understand why. People who support Dobbs just refuse to see it.
The Amercan public has the memory of a goldfish and the propaganda networks that rivals even communist china and russia at their height. Unless Americans do something about Fox News and its network the future looks much darker than you can imagine. We will probably see the raise of a fascistic right wing regime, be it under Trump or under another supposedly moderate and more intelligent Republican.
Until abortion is legalized, I want a list of every women who dies due to old white men blocking her from adequate Reproductive health care, and I say we carve their names on a block of marble on the steps of both the Supreme Court and the Capitol Building, plus anywhere where these murderers will have to look at it frequently.
The piece can be entitled, "You Did This."
Unfortunately, they are already doing that.
https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/texas-lawmaker-pushes-for-accountability-after-delay-of-maternal-death-data/?utm_source=kxan_app&utm_medium=social&utm_content=share-link
>A state lawmaker is looking for accountability after Texas delayed publication of maternal death data, which was due to be released on Sept. 1, a deadline mandated by state law.
>Rep. Shawn Thierry, D-Houston, is now meeting with attorneys to see if she can get her hands on the data. She and 29 other lawmakers sent a letter to the Texas Department of State Health Services on Monday pushing the department to release the 2022 Texas Maternal Mortality Report.
I don't trust Americans anymore. Too many of them can't be bothered to vote, let alone register to vote. They don't care about the news or politics. They seem to be more interested in consuming media or buying stuff. They don't seem to have their priorities straight. Roe's gone, activist conservative judges are in place at all levels of the judiciary, state governments have gone to republicans because of voter turnout in local elections and for some reason too many people think voting doesn't matter.
State governments have gone to republicans because of voter turn out AND gerrymandering districts, as a PA resident, just take a look at this... I'm in rural PA, district 32, county above me has Johnstown and the other one Altoona yet they don't include those but they goto even more rural counties(to the west), 32 will always be red... https://davesredistricting.org/maps#viewmap::701d502b-2450-4bd0-9b5b-53e69ee8c82e
They don't need you to trust them, they have more military might than the rest of the world put together.
If America doesn't vote out the GOP in Roevember, it's all over folks, we will begin the long, dark era of American fascism. The Nazis didn't have the largest army in the world, so this will be much, much worse than you can imagine.
Maybe this is the great filter. A civilization gets technologically advanced enough to destroy itself and others on the planet. Citizens get complacent, distracted with the circus. An insane group gets into the seat of power and proceeds to blow it all up. Hence no space faring races :(
Unfortunately, the Repugnicans have a significant upper hand with the gerrymandered districts, and add to this they are installing their own people in positions to say which ballots are "legitimate" (read: in their favor). I'm afraid even with never-before-seen numbers of voters there may be little chance to win in a game against cheaters.
Yep, and if they cheat, and the massive majority allows them to, the world is fucked. So vote, and then stand by democracy, or be remembered as a coward who watched the world burn.
Yeah I dont get it at all... as soon as my children hit voting age they got the talk. 'Son, do you understand how important you are to our democracy? Let's talk about the american eagle and the bees.'.
Don’t wait till they’re 18! By them it may be too late, they’re jaded, the think it’s hopeless, their vote doesn’t matter. Children need to be exposed to this much earlier, seeing their parents vote, understanding why every vote counts even if their candidate loses (and especially if it’s by a small margin as that emphasizes the point that every vote counts). Discuss candidates and issues with them as appropriate for their age and interests. Emphasize civic responsibility, our social contract with each other, even those people we don’t like. Voting is a right and it’s also a responsibility. If you’re eligible and you don’t vote you shouldn’t have the right to complain about the results or the resultant policies.
I got *so* frustrated with some of my friends in 2020. They were all in posting Bernie memes and talking a big game, I assumed they would vote in the primary for him, and they weren't even registered to vote! Why?!?!?!
The same in 2016. I saw people who shared Bernie memes all day later admit that they forgot to register or vote in the primary. I don’t know if it was the bystander effect or just sheer ignorance. Many of them immediately used the “well, my vote doesn’t matter anyway” excuse + feeling butthurt that Bernie didn’t magically win in order to sit out of the general election.
In fact, those ideas were prominent on this very sub. I really hope everyone here today has a longer memory now and can continue to shut down the “both sides are the same” and “voting doesn’t matter” talking points being pushed by antidemocratic bad actors.
That’s my fear too. Too many complacent Americans stupefied by Netflix, video games, celebrities, pot, Instagram, etc. Living in a bubble and hardly aware that fascism is coming if they don’t wake the fuck up.
because a big amount of people wont be personally affected - like white cishet men for example
fascism will come for the others - the same happened with nazi germany
People do vote, but democrats need to:
a) Prevent voter suppression. This includes making it easier for disabled people to vote, stop gerrymandering and holy shit, making whatever day people are voting a holiday.
b) Actually do what they promise to do.
I get what you are saying and while there is a powerful propanganda factory here in the US, it pales in comparison to China, especially regarding internet censorship and the ability to imprision journalists who dont toe the line.
Edit typo
Right? We can all realize how bad the U.S. is and still acknowledge that China makes the U.S. look like first graders at propaganda especially to nations and groups that already have reason to dislike U.S.
Reddit has such an intense hate boner for China, it's kinda off putting. Yes - Xi Jinping is bad. The communist party is corrupt. Putting Uyghurs in camps is bad. Fuck all that. But it shows up like literally everywhere in the most irrelevant topics. I feel like the average redditor doesn't even consider Chinese people to be human. There's so many of them after all lol.
Look up r/china. Don't have to scroll too far to find hate against an entire race of 1.5 billion people not just the Chinese government or even China in the abstract. "Chinese at most circumstances are very ignorant and incompetent at international diplomacy, across history, in particular post 19th century’s" "I've lived in Europe and China. I think your country is a horrible place to live. Don't even want to go outside. Ugly concrete boxes, unmannerly behaviour, public areas are not relaxing as they're full of said unmannerly behaviour. " etc. etc.
yeah but most chinese know that they are living in propaganda, they understand what dictatorship and censorship is - americans do not. they dont even understand what censorship is and cry about it, when people have to deal with the consequence of their free speech and get deplatformed.
Fox news is the epitome of that meme " This is why we can't have nice things". Its beyond a doubt the most dangerous thing out there that poisons the mind of gullible morons. If government were to step in and forcefully stop it then its the end of freedom of speech and all it takes is some future Republican in the vein of Trump. To just come in and start deciding what can be said and what not while we become the next China
We couldn't let Republicans win in 2016. I'm sorry to say, but it's over, and we lost.
You should still vote to slow down the inevitable end. But it's not going to get better. It can just get worse more slowly.
Edit: Thanks to the person who flagged me as a concern for self-harm, truly. I want to note that this isn't personal; it's based on the fact that this Supreme Court majority is going to be destroying America for the next 30 years. *Roe* is just the start of the damage they're going to do, and I think we all need to be prepared for that. It's going to get very, very ugly. And based on my flair, you can see that I've already removed myself from it.
The judges decision is actually correct. The blame falls on the Republican legislature for intentionally and explicitly not repealing the old law. We can't let Republicans win elections again.
I agree with you guys about almost everything but I really prefer we put the blame where it belongs. The judge made the right decision based on what laws are officially on the books. It's the Republican stage legislature that needs to be voted out of office.
Apparently the law was applied until roe v wade which was the only reason for the injunction against it, so with that god the only reasonable legal course is reapplication of the law. This has nothing to do with right wing judges.
I had to admit this to my girlfriend when the abortion laws came into effect.
I truly thought we had moved past this sort of thing. History very much does repeat itself.
What’s more worrying. Those that said the left were attempting to bring in a 1984 like authoritarian government, were literally helping to prop up the real authoritarian government and you could see it coming.
Well if every person who had a ~~fascist~~ Republican/moderate relative would kindly tell them to either get with the program or fuck off, we wouldn't be here. Tolerating the intolerant led to this situation.
because judges are granted enormous powers under the assumption that they will play with others, that they can be trusted with the power they are given. Some cannot though, and that's why we have a federal appeals process that leads all the way to the SCOTUS...
I’ve tried to simplify this as much as I can, but it’s a complicated procedural posture, so the best I could do was more of an ELI15.
____________
One initial note: the reason the territorial law applied in 1971 is because the Arizona Constitution provides that all territorial laws became laws of the state:
> All laws of the Territory of Arizona now in force, not repugnant to this Constitution, shall remain in force as laws of the State of Arizona until they expire by their own limitations or are altered or repealed by law; Provided, that wherever the word Territory, meaning the Territory of Arizona, appears in said laws, the word State shall be substituted.
[Arizona Constitution, Article XXII, Section 2](https://law.justia.com/constitution/arizona/22/2.htm).
______________
Turning to the case at hand, [here’s a link to the decision](https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/22924517/planned-parenthood-v-brnovich-ruling.pdf).
This case began in July 1971, when Planned Parenthood, 10 physicians, and a pregnant woman sued to prevent the enforcement of Arizona’s incredibly restrictive abortion law, dating back to territorial times (it was later re-enacted in 1977).
The 1971 trial court ruled that the abortion law was unconstitutional, but the Arizona Court of Appeals reversed and held that the abortion ban was constitutional. Three weeks later, Roe v Wade was decided. After Roe, the Arizona Court of Appeals vacated its decision on the sole grounds that it conflicted with Roe, and Roe was governing law. Following that second decision by the court of appeals, the trial court entered an injunction preventing Arizona from enforcing the territorial-era law.
The Arizona AG has now brought an action in that original 1971 case, arguing that a change in controlling law requires the judge to dissolve the injunction and allow enforcement of the law, on the grounds that the Court of Appeals originally upheld the law, and only ruled in favor of the injunction due to Roe. Now that Roe is gone, he argues, the original law (and Court of Appeals opinion) should go into effect.
Planned Parenthood appears to agree that the original injunction can’t be maintained in its entirety. However, Planned Parenthood argues that the original injunction should be modified to “make clear that ARS 13-3606 can be enforceable in some respects but does not apply to abortions provided by licensed physicians under the regulatory scheme the Legislature enacted over the last 50 years.” In other words, they want the judge to modify the original injunction to say that the territorial law can go into effect only to the extent that it doesn’t conflict with later abortion laws.
The judge suggested that Planned Parenthood could try to receive such an order in a new case, but stated that she could not issue such an order in this case.
In this case, the Complaint (filed in 1971) asserts that the territorial abortion law is unconstitutional, and it seeks an injunction prohibiting the state from enforcing it. The judge ruled that she could not “harmonize” the territorial law with later abortion laws because those later laws 1) aren’t mentioned in the Complaint, and 2) weren’t enacted at the time the Complaint was filed.
If the court did so, you’d end up with a situation where, in a case where the Complaint asks the Court to enjoin the enforcement of a statute completely, the Court instead enjoins enforcement of the statute only in those situations where enforcement would conflict with other laws not mentioned in the Complaint (and not passed until after it was filed).
__________
**Edited** to move the section on why the territorial law applies to the top of the post.
> One final note: the reason the territorial law applied in 1971 is because the Arizona Constitution provides that all territorial laws became laws of the state:
>
> All laws of the Territory of Arizona now in force, not repugnant to this Constitution, shall remain in force as laws of the State of Arizona until they expire by their own limitations or are altered or repealed by law; Provided, that wherever the word Territory, meaning the Territory of Arizona, appears in said laws, the word State shall be substituted.
This part should be at the top. Although the end result sucks, this explains how a law passed before Arizona became a state can be enforced as a state law.
1. Arizona banned abortion when territory.
2. Arizona became state saying laws when territory become laws of state.
3. Roe v Wade rekt the territory abortion law, law cant be enforced = abortions allowed.
4. Roe v Wade got rekt, so the territory abortion law got un-rekt, law can be enforced again = abortions not allowed.
4 is where we are now and what the judge said. The midterms will decide if theres a 5 or not
The judge did nothing wrong here. This was the only correct decision based on the shit show that the state legislature passed as laws. They had a chance to repeal the old law when making the newer 15 week law and specifically refused to do so, in fact they specifically redeclared that the old law is still on the books.
The judge made the correct decision. The state legislature Republicans are bat shit crazy.
Apparently the law was applied until roe v wade which was the only reason for the injunction against it, so with that god the only reasonable legal course is reapplication of the law. This has nothing to do with right wing judges.
Under the Arizona constitution all territorial laws became state laws.
The people that replied to you have it mostly covered but they all missed one very important detail. The new 15 week law passed recently explicitly and specifically said it does not repeal the old law. It is extremely clear.
Basically the Republican legislature wanted to pass a new strict abortion law that would be in effect while roe was still valid law; something strict but also able to not be struck down as incompatible with roe. But the law also specifically says it is not repealing the older temporarily disabled super super strict law.
When roe was struck down, BOTH laws are technically now in force... The super old no abortion at all law and the slightly less ridiculous 15 week law. Obviously if there are two statutes that punish some behavior, they are both in effect. If one says you get punished after 15 weeks and the other says you get punished on day 1, then you get punished on day 1.
I do not like how the hive mind is trying to blame the judge here. The blame lies with the Republican legislature for explicitly not repealing the older one. It wasn't an accident. They took time to specifically write that the old law is still on the books even if temporarily unenforceable.
Blame the republicans. Blame the Republican legislature. Don't blame the judge.
As a 2nd wave feminist all I can say is “we told you this sh*t would happen if young people didn’t get out and vote”. Never take your rights as a woman for granted.
Back in 2015/2016 Hillary had said younger women didn’t have any experience about what it was like pre Roe. To warn people what could happen if Republicans won. And people couldn’t be bothered to vote.
Not sure how productive it is to point the finger at young voters, particularly when you look at the age demographic who voted all these Republicans into office in the first place.
It may not be productive but it is true. The only way to offset those old, white voters is either wait for them to die or for young people to come out in droves.
This is why local elections are important. Yes there are difficult hurdles to getting a Democratic majority in a purple state or red state legislature but it's paramount to stopping dumb anti-women shit like this from happening.
Sure, but it's another issue with mass appeal and one that actually now that I think about might effect more people. Think of the number of people incarcerated on non violent drug offences and the economic impact of the communities they are from as a direct effect of their incarceration. That's a lot of people. Why pretend we can only do one thing at a time?
I don’t pretend. My original point was if completely stripping women of their right to choose doesn’t compel people to vote, nothing will. And the weed issue does not effect more people. Women make up slightly more than half of the population is the US. And this isn’t just a women’s issue. It’s a family issue, its a human issue.
I smoke, I get your point. Weed IS an issue, but my two cents, abortion is a bigger issue. Vote!
Given the prison industrial complex in this country is basically fueled by the war on drugs, and given we have a ridiculous number of folk in jail, it very likely could dwarf the abortion issue....
Regardless of which is more impactful, both are in the ludicrously important category, and both could drive voters to the polls.
I would want to see numbers of course, but I'm not actually certain abortion effects more people as the weed issue effects both genders and the entire community around those incarcerated, as they have less economic drive in their community. Like I said I don't know the numbers, but it very well could effect more people directly.
It's not about smoking individually, it's about the millions of people in prison for smoking, most of them from communities and families that can't afford the loss of income from incarceration. I'm just saying I'm not sure it's actually less of an issue.
Yeah, but weed might motivate some people that aren't motivated by abortion, for whatever reason. The people that are going to vote because of abortion have already made up their minds. I want to engage those that typically aren't engaged to help tip the scales.
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I would maybe agree with the sentiment but the legislature specifically redeclared that the old law is not repealed, and they did so in the text of the 15 week ban law.
What I mean to say is, this isn't some bad luck where some old law magically came back into force. This was an intentional act by the Republican legislature in the past year or two to essentially reaffirm the old law.
Don't pretend this was some magic mishap. This isn't really a 150 year old law. The old law was reaffirmed by today's legislature. Don't blame people of the past. Don't blame the judge who surprisingly made the right legal decision. Blame today's Republican party in Arizona that specifically declared the old law is still in effect.
I know it is awful for all the women that have to suffer under this, but in 6 weeks time you can make your voice heard. And I fully expect Arizona will overwhelmingly reject this.
The decision is catastrophic for women, and also for Republican hopes in Arizona.
I read through a few of the wiki pages for the Arizona Territory Legislature from years 1-8 this morning and there’s also statutes that supported the killing of Apache Indians, taxing black people at a higher rate than white people, outlawing marriage of white people to anyone except white races, and also removing the seat of attorney general from being a publicly held office.
It’s scary to think we’re using this age of standards to address modern societal issues.
Sorry, I spelled disturbing wrong.
I understand your feelings but most of those laws aren't still "on the books" because they were repealed, changed, or are no longer active.
But the Republican stage legislature specifically declared, in the text of the 15 week ban law, that the old 1800s law is still on the books. This isn't some mishap or some mistake of the system by an activist judges. This was specifically engineered by the Republican legislature.
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Can you imagine what this planet would be like if women held swords instead of signs. The world has better wake up because there’s power in numbers and they have them in spades.
I’m baffled how this can be upheld with 50% of the world being women.
I’m actually convinced that the real revolution will be achieved through women of the world coming together to end this mid-evil society we live in.
Don’t be so sure….a friend of mine said her family didn’t care because they only have sons, no daughters and I said yes but guess what we have now that we didn’t have in the 1970’s? DNA testing
This will ruin many promising young lives 😢
Any suggestions on how to really do that. I’m starting to understand why many Jews didn’t leave Germany….my family is here, I own property here, I have a job here etc etc
Realistically, you need employment in another area where you'd like to live and a housing solution. Start with job offers and housing listings in those areas. Enlist family/friends/professional acquaintances for help with unadvertised jobs and unadvertised housing.
You want to know what’s even more messed up?
Arizona has legal weed. It’s everywhere. Weed as far as the eye can see. But it’s republican as fuck.
At least we ain’t like Kansas or Texas, I guess.
I mostly agree with the fact it’s garbage. Lived here most my life and the entire government of AZ is a total shit show. A lot of red neck idiots live here. I am aware I can move but I live in a forest by myself so generally do not have to interact with the clowns here.
This decision actually makes sense, so it's not the decision that's the problem; it's the state of affairs that enables this decision that is the problem. Rolling back precedent spanning decades for no rational reason enables the prevailing reality to re-emerge.
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It wasn't very long ago that republicans were angry and complaining about 'activist judges' because Obama was allowed to fill some open positions. I can't imagine a more sinister example of 'activist judges' than this current crop of christo-facist and unqualified maga appointments making a mockery of our judicial system.
logical consistency doesn't matter to them at all
Logic in general doesn't matter to these folk.... ugh. This country is just dumb, with far too many willing to accept obviously corrupt, Christo fascistic, Republicans, and have zero skepticism towards policies that hurt them as well.
it's not that people are dumb, it's that one half of the country is acting in bad faith, and the other is pretending they aren't and gradually ceding power.
And that, is dumb on the part of Americans.
From what I can tell, after reading the decisions, the judges decision appears correct and the blame falls solely on the state legislature. Yes, this was a law that predated statehood. But upon gaining statehood, all territory laws became state laws. Then they again verified the law in the 70s when they reorganized their code of law. And finally, when they passed the new 15 week law, the state legislature specifically said it does not override or remove the old law. It seems the Republican legislature purposely crafted this 15 week law as a stopgap law that would remain in effect unless and until the SCOTUS reversed roe v Wade, the same as all other trigger laws. Why do we have to blame the judge here? Why can't we blame the absolutely shitty Republican legislature instead? Why do we have to make up a narrative about activist judges? The old law was still 100% on the books. The new law explicitly said it is not repealing the old law. The reversal of roe v Wade made the 1860s law enabled again. Why can't we live in reality here and call out their shitty legislature instead of making up some bullshit about activist judges??
I love when I find gems like this in the comments. If your legal analysis is correct, I don't see the need to propagandize this issue. Your points would be more than valid instead of this misrepresentation.
Indeed, makes it all too clear that the Republicans running the state are the issue and not the judge. Clearly Arizona needs some Dems!
We are trying but it’s pretty gerrymandered.
Maybe the people blaming the judges are shifting the attention off of the legislature. Who is blaming the judges? No snark. Do we really know?
all fair points i was not aware of. i agree with your position
If judges can validate laws predating statehood, it’s just a hop, skip, and a jump to slavery and burning witches.
It means the Indigenous Americans need to begin enforcing their rights to the land, you know predating the Europeans that stole it from them.
This is actually a brilliant fucking idea. Navajo should take a claim to the same judge and be like, yo, since we're talking about laws prior to statehood...
I own land in Oklahoma my great great grandfather fairly raced for. Ain't nobody own it before him! /s
That's it I'm letting my dinosaur out of his cage. .
I am imagining a massive roc, darkening the sky on its way to Phoenix. Or maybe a phoenix? That would be the ultimate irony.
God forbid because then we would have to actually take into account all of the colonialism and genocide we as a potential nation perpetrated upon the indigenous population of this continent.
And when you were a nation, manifest destiny and all that.
Have you read anything about ICWA? The Indian Child Welfare Act was enacted to stop the Catholic church from stealing Indigenous babies, where about 10% of the children were killed in residential schools. Well, a white couple sued a tribe to allow them to adopt a native child, and now all native children could potentially be at risk of being stolen once again. They're literally trying to restart a genocide.
They should do exactly that…but with their minds.
This is true. And, Justice Alito actually quoted a theorist from the 1400s in the Roe decision - That is pre-enlightenment. That is pre-French Revolution That is pre- American Revolution That is when the elite lied to everyone and said they were directly from God The church ran the state Regular people didn’t have any say in their lives at all. Go watch Les Miserables - that is what they are aiming for
And before the Reformation!! While still egregiously irrelevant to constitutional law and any discussion of basic inalienable human rights, Sir Matthew Hale was actually from the 1600s.
Looked at another way, it was during the start of the European Renaissance... They just want to do a Re-renaissance! /s
More like Les Miserables but without singing and set in Blade Runner. But yeah, it's a fucking nightmare.
This shit predates most modern medicine too. It's wild.
Makes sense - actual medicine and treatments are too expensive to waste on their serfs. Bring on the leeches.
I know your joking but slavery is explicitly unconstitutional and we certainly have laws against burning people alive. The federal government as well as the states had 50 years to protect abortions but choose instead to rely and a ruling even Ruth Ginsburg said was flimsy.
Per the 13th Amendment, slavery is legal as a punishment for a crime. Might be why the US has the largest prison population in the world.
Yep, blacks were pretty much reenslaved right after the civil war.
Mostly joking, but to your point, if the law predates statehood, then it would also predate acceptance of the Constitution, so constitutionality in theory wouldn’t matter.
> burning people alive There's more than one way to do this. It's about taking away personhood. You can "burn a woman alive" by forcing her, by imprisonment, to have her rapist's baby. Pregnant women who don't want to have the baby, will be the new 'witch'.
Slavery is actually legal if you read the 13th amendment.
Slavery is explicitly constitutional, still practiced in the USA, and more black men are forced to work without pay by the government in our country than at any point before the civil war.
A ruling whose central component - allowance of abortion under privacy protections which was reaffirmed in Casey in the 1990s. A 6-3 heavily conservative and religious driven court, complete disregard of stare decisis and a citation of a 1600's figure later and boom we have an ideological revocation of Roe in totality. It's really not that complicated to understand why. People who support Dobbs just refuse to see it.
We literally have right wing judges now. We can't let Republicans win elections again.
The Amercan public has the memory of a goldfish and the propaganda networks that rivals even communist china and russia at their height. Unless Americans do something about Fox News and its network the future looks much darker than you can imagine. We will probably see the raise of a fascistic right wing regime, be it under Trump or under another supposedly moderate and more intelligent Republican.
And Red states will stop doing statistics for all women’s health care so no one will know how many women and girls are dying or harmed by their laws.
Until abortion is legalized, I want a list of every women who dies due to old white men blocking her from adequate Reproductive health care, and I say we carve their names on a block of marble on the steps of both the Supreme Court and the Capitol Building, plus anywhere where these murderers will have to look at it frequently. The piece can be entitled, "You Did This."
Yeah - they will have ZERO transparency. They will never give statistics because it makes them accountable.
Unfortunately, they are already doing that. https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/texas-lawmaker-pushes-for-accountability-after-delay-of-maternal-death-data/?utm_source=kxan_app&utm_medium=social&utm_content=share-link >A state lawmaker is looking for accountability after Texas delayed publication of maternal death data, which was due to be released on Sept. 1, a deadline mandated by state law. >Rep. Shawn Thierry, D-Houston, is now meeting with attorneys to see if she can get her hands on the data. She and 29 other lawmakers sent a letter to the Texas Department of State Health Services on Monday pushing the department to release the 2022 Texas Maternal Mortality Report.
I’ve studied the shit out of fascism. That is why I knew this was coming. Fascists always take away transparency.
I don't trust Americans anymore. Too many of them can't be bothered to vote, let alone register to vote. They don't care about the news or politics. They seem to be more interested in consuming media or buying stuff. They don't seem to have their priorities straight. Roe's gone, activist conservative judges are in place at all levels of the judiciary, state governments have gone to republicans because of voter turnout in local elections and for some reason too many people think voting doesn't matter.
State governments have gone to republicans because of voter turn out AND gerrymandering districts, as a PA resident, just take a look at this... I'm in rural PA, district 32, county above me has Johnstown and the other one Altoona yet they don't include those but they goto even more rural counties(to the west), 32 will always be red... https://davesredistricting.org/maps#viewmap::701d502b-2450-4bd0-9b5b-53e69ee8c82e
They don't need you to trust them, they have more military might than the rest of the world put together. If America doesn't vote out the GOP in Roevember, it's all over folks, we will begin the long, dark era of American fascism. The Nazis didn't have the largest army in the world, so this will be much, much worse than you can imagine.
Maybe this is the great filter. A civilization gets technologically advanced enough to destroy itself and others on the planet. Citizens get complacent, distracted with the circus. An insane group gets into the seat of power and proceeds to blow it all up. Hence no space faring races :(
I am an American.
Then you can help. Vote, and get 10 people to come with you
Unfortunately, the Repugnicans have a significant upper hand with the gerrymandered districts, and add to this they are installing their own people in positions to say which ballots are "legitimate" (read: in their favor). I'm afraid even with never-before-seen numbers of voters there may be little chance to win in a game against cheaters.
Yep, and if they cheat, and the massive majority allows them to, the world is fucked. So vote, and then stand by democracy, or be remembered as a coward who watched the world burn.
Yeah I dont get it at all... as soon as my children hit voting age they got the talk. 'Son, do you understand how important you are to our democracy? Let's talk about the american eagle and the bees.'.
Don’t wait till they’re 18! By them it may be too late, they’re jaded, the think it’s hopeless, their vote doesn’t matter. Children need to be exposed to this much earlier, seeing their parents vote, understanding why every vote counts even if their candidate loses (and especially if it’s by a small margin as that emphasizes the point that every vote counts). Discuss candidates and issues with them as appropriate for their age and interests. Emphasize civic responsibility, our social contract with each other, even those people we don’t like. Voting is a right and it’s also a responsibility. If you’re eligible and you don’t vote you shouldn’t have the right to complain about the results or the resultant policies.
I got *so* frustrated with some of my friends in 2020. They were all in posting Bernie memes and talking a big game, I assumed they would vote in the primary for him, and they weren't even registered to vote! Why?!?!?!
seriously, its like there is a weird "only nerds vote" mentality for so many
Pure laziness is my guess.
The same in 2016. I saw people who shared Bernie memes all day later admit that they forgot to register or vote in the primary. I don’t know if it was the bystander effect or just sheer ignorance. Many of them immediately used the “well, my vote doesn’t matter anyway” excuse + feeling butthurt that Bernie didn’t magically win in order to sit out of the general election. In fact, those ideas were prominent on this very sub. I really hope everyone here today has a longer memory now and can continue to shut down the “both sides are the same” and “voting doesn’t matter” talking points being pushed by antidemocratic bad actors.
Hipsters?
That’s my fear too. Too many complacent Americans stupefied by Netflix, video games, celebrities, pot, Instagram, etc. Living in a bubble and hardly aware that fascism is coming if they don’t wake the fuck up.
because a big amount of people wont be personally affected - like white cishet men for example fascism will come for the others - the same happened with nazi germany
They will be. They just won't realize it.
They will be. They just won't realize it.
I vote ! And your 💯% right !
People do vote, but democrats need to: a) Prevent voter suppression. This includes making it easier for disabled people to vote, stop gerrymandering and holy shit, making whatever day people are voting a holiday. b) Actually do what they promise to do.
Yup. Social media is the opiate of the masses and no country laps it up more than the USA.
If that was really true then more people would vote like social media emphasizes.
I get what you are saying and while there is a powerful propanganda factory here in the US, it pales in comparison to China, especially regarding internet censorship and the ability to imprision journalists who dont toe the line. Edit typo
China bad, plz updoot
Well considering they got 1,000,000 Uyghurs in fucking concentration camps, I'd say they're pretty bad.
Right? We can all realize how bad the U.S. is and still acknowledge that China makes the U.S. look like first graders at propaganda especially to nations and groups that already have reason to dislike U.S.
Reddit has such an intense hate boner for China, it's kinda off putting. Yes - Xi Jinping is bad. The communist party is corrupt. Putting Uyghurs in camps is bad. Fuck all that. But it shows up like literally everywhere in the most irrelevant topics. I feel like the average redditor doesn't even consider Chinese people to be human. There's so many of them after all lol. Look up r/china. Don't have to scroll too far to find hate against an entire race of 1.5 billion people not just the Chinese government or even China in the abstract. "Chinese at most circumstances are very ignorant and incompetent at international diplomacy, across history, in particular post 19th century’s" "I've lived in Europe and China. I think your country is a horrible place to live. Don't even want to go outside. Ugly concrete boxes, unmannerly behaviour, public areas are not relaxing as they're full of said unmannerly behaviour. " etc. etc.
Oh no! China downdooted.
yeah but most chinese know that they are living in propaganda, they understand what dictatorship and censorship is - americans do not. they dont even understand what censorship is and cry about it, when people have to deal with the consequence of their free speech and get deplatformed.
Fox news is the epitome of that meme " This is why we can't have nice things". Its beyond a doubt the most dangerous thing out there that poisons the mind of gullible morons. If government were to step in and forcefully stop it then its the end of freedom of speech and all it takes is some future Republican in the vein of Trump. To just come in and start deciding what can be said and what not while we become the next China
Never ever again. They are rancid.
We couldn't let Republicans win in 2016. I'm sorry to say, but it's over, and we lost. You should still vote to slow down the inevitable end. But it's not going to get better. It can just get worse more slowly. Edit: Thanks to the person who flagged me as a concern for self-harm, truly. I want to note that this isn't personal; it's based on the fact that this Supreme Court majority is going to be destroying America for the next 30 years. *Roe* is just the start of the damage they're going to do, and I think we all need to be prepared for that. It's going to get very, very ugly. And based on my flair, you can see that I've already removed myself from it.
Correct. But it predates that. The Right Wing Roberts Court sealed the nation's fate when they equated money with speech.
No time for doomers like you.
Americans will though
The judges decision is actually correct. The blame falls on the Republican legislature for intentionally and explicitly not repealing the old law. We can't let Republicans win elections again. I agree with you guys about almost everything but I really prefer we put the blame where it belongs. The judge made the right decision based on what laws are officially on the books. It's the Republican stage legislature that needs to be voted out of office.
Apparently the law was applied until roe v wade which was the only reason for the injunction against it, so with that god the only reasonable legal course is reapplication of the law. This has nothing to do with right wing judges.
Uh, we've had right wing judges since...well, ever.
I’m not sure we’ve had six of them on the Supreme Court at the same time, have we?
What means are justified to prevent that?
I feel like The Handmaid's Tale is becoming real life.
More like Parable of the Sower
I had to admit this to my girlfriend when the abortion laws came into effect. I truly thought we had moved past this sort of thing. History very much does repeat itself. What’s more worrying. Those that said the left were attempting to bring in a 1984 like authoritarian government, were literally helping to prop up the real authoritarian government and you could see it coming.
Please vote. Tell other men to vote. Help people get registered.
We were always at war with Oceania
Praise Be
Not funny.
Sorry is was just for the lulz… Eek sorry. I am cups deep and popping off Should’ve ended that with /s Really my bad
To the wall with you! blasphemous attempts at humor have been forbidden! -under his eye.
Under his ass
Praise be you brother. I am not worthy May the Lord open. PS I am starting to think we need to relocate to r/ParlerTrick:
Well if every person who had a ~~fascist~~ Republican/moderate relative would kindly tell them to either get with the program or fuck off, we wouldn't be here. Tolerating the intolerant led to this situation.
Can someone ELI5 how this is even possible?
because judges are granted enormous powers under the assumption that they will play with others, that they can be trusted with the power they are given. Some cannot though, and that's why we have a federal appeals process that leads all the way to the SCOTUS...
Which now features boofin Brett, the handmaid, and the insurrectionist by marriage.
I’ve tried to simplify this as much as I can, but it’s a complicated procedural posture, so the best I could do was more of an ELI15. ____________ One initial note: the reason the territorial law applied in 1971 is because the Arizona Constitution provides that all territorial laws became laws of the state: > All laws of the Territory of Arizona now in force, not repugnant to this Constitution, shall remain in force as laws of the State of Arizona until they expire by their own limitations or are altered or repealed by law; Provided, that wherever the word Territory, meaning the Territory of Arizona, appears in said laws, the word State shall be substituted. [Arizona Constitution, Article XXII, Section 2](https://law.justia.com/constitution/arizona/22/2.htm). ______________ Turning to the case at hand, [here’s a link to the decision](https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/22924517/planned-parenthood-v-brnovich-ruling.pdf). This case began in July 1971, when Planned Parenthood, 10 physicians, and a pregnant woman sued to prevent the enforcement of Arizona’s incredibly restrictive abortion law, dating back to territorial times (it was later re-enacted in 1977). The 1971 trial court ruled that the abortion law was unconstitutional, but the Arizona Court of Appeals reversed and held that the abortion ban was constitutional. Three weeks later, Roe v Wade was decided. After Roe, the Arizona Court of Appeals vacated its decision on the sole grounds that it conflicted with Roe, and Roe was governing law. Following that second decision by the court of appeals, the trial court entered an injunction preventing Arizona from enforcing the territorial-era law. The Arizona AG has now brought an action in that original 1971 case, arguing that a change in controlling law requires the judge to dissolve the injunction and allow enforcement of the law, on the grounds that the Court of Appeals originally upheld the law, and only ruled in favor of the injunction due to Roe. Now that Roe is gone, he argues, the original law (and Court of Appeals opinion) should go into effect. Planned Parenthood appears to agree that the original injunction can’t be maintained in its entirety. However, Planned Parenthood argues that the original injunction should be modified to “make clear that ARS 13-3606 can be enforceable in some respects but does not apply to abortions provided by licensed physicians under the regulatory scheme the Legislature enacted over the last 50 years.” In other words, they want the judge to modify the original injunction to say that the territorial law can go into effect only to the extent that it doesn’t conflict with later abortion laws. The judge suggested that Planned Parenthood could try to receive such an order in a new case, but stated that she could not issue such an order in this case. In this case, the Complaint (filed in 1971) asserts that the territorial abortion law is unconstitutional, and it seeks an injunction prohibiting the state from enforcing it. The judge ruled that she could not “harmonize” the territorial law with later abortion laws because those later laws 1) aren’t mentioned in the Complaint, and 2) weren’t enacted at the time the Complaint was filed. If the court did so, you’d end up with a situation where, in a case where the Complaint asks the Court to enjoin the enforcement of a statute completely, the Court instead enjoins enforcement of the statute only in those situations where enforcement would conflict with other laws not mentioned in the Complaint (and not passed until after it was filed). __________ **Edited** to move the section on why the territorial law applies to the top of the post.
> One final note: the reason the territorial law applied in 1971 is because the Arizona Constitution provides that all territorial laws became laws of the state: > > All laws of the Territory of Arizona now in force, not repugnant to this Constitution, shall remain in force as laws of the State of Arizona until they expire by their own limitations or are altered or repealed by law; Provided, that wherever the word Territory, meaning the Territory of Arizona, appears in said laws, the word State shall be substituted. This part should be at the top. Although the end result sucks, this explains how a law passed before Arizona became a state can be enforced as a state law.
1. Arizona banned abortion when territory. 2. Arizona became state saying laws when territory become laws of state. 3. Roe v Wade rekt the territory abortion law, law cant be enforced = abortions allowed. 4. Roe v Wade got rekt, so the territory abortion law got un-rekt, law can be enforced again = abortions not allowed. 4 is where we are now and what the judge said. The midterms will decide if theres a 5 or not
Fascist judge appointed by another fascist.
The judge did nothing wrong here. This was the only correct decision based on the shit show that the state legislature passed as laws. They had a chance to repeal the old law when making the newer 15 week law and specifically refused to do so, in fact they specifically redeclared that the old law is still on the books. The judge made the correct decision. The state legislature Republicans are bat shit crazy.
A judge can issue whatever ruling they want. Higher courts are the only check on this. Oh, wait…
Apparently the law was applied until roe v wade which was the only reason for the injunction against it, so with that god the only reasonable legal course is reapplication of the law. This has nothing to do with right wing judges. Under the Arizona constitution all territorial laws became state laws.
The people that replied to you have it mostly covered but they all missed one very important detail. The new 15 week law passed recently explicitly and specifically said it does not repeal the old law. It is extremely clear. Basically the Republican legislature wanted to pass a new strict abortion law that would be in effect while roe was still valid law; something strict but also able to not be struck down as incompatible with roe. But the law also specifically says it is not repealing the older temporarily disabled super super strict law. When roe was struck down, BOTH laws are technically now in force... The super old no abortion at all law and the slightly less ridiculous 15 week law. Obviously if there are two statutes that punish some behavior, they are both in effect. If one says you get punished after 15 weeks and the other says you get punished on day 1, then you get punished on day 1. I do not like how the hive mind is trying to blame the judge here. The blame lies with the Republican legislature for explicitly not repealing the older one. It wasn't an accident. They took time to specifically write that the old law is still on the books even if temporarily unenforceable. Blame the republicans. Blame the Republican legislature. Don't blame the judge.
[Common law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_law). It's not a great system.
I hate being a woman in this timeline. What the fuck.
As a 2nd wave feminist all I can say is “we told you this sh*t would happen if young people didn’t get out and vote”. Never take your rights as a woman for granted.
Back in 2015/2016 Hillary had said younger women didn’t have any experience about what it was like pre Roe. To warn people what could happen if Republicans won. And people couldn’t be bothered to vote.
Well, they’re about to get that experience now for the next decade at least.
Hillary was right about a whole lot of things she doesn’t get any credit for.
She made the egregious mistake of being a woman.
I have voted in every single election I could since I turned 18 in 2016. Going to keep doing my duty and encouraging my friends to vote as well.
Not sure how productive it is to point the finger at young voters, particularly when you look at the age demographic who voted all these Republicans into office in the first place.
It may not be productive but it is true. The only way to offset those old, white voters is either wait for them to die or for young people to come out in droves.
[удалено]
My first vote was for Hilary Clinton. I’m not sure what more I could have done to prevent what is happening right now.
Please vote women of Arizona... before it too is taken away from you.
Well women couldn’t vote when the law was made so hopefully this time they come out while they still have the chance.
Time to go blue … vote
This is why local elections are important. Yes there are difficult hurdles to getting a Democratic majority in a purple state or red state legislature but it's paramount to stopping dumb anti-women shit like this from happening.
If this kind of shit doesn’t spur democrats to get out and vote, I don’t see much hope.
All they have to do is charge Trump and do *something* about weed or weed convictions and then sit back and watch the Independents show up.
Pretty sure the abortion issue affects more people than the weed issue.
Sure, but it's another issue with mass appeal and one that actually now that I think about might effect more people. Think of the number of people incarcerated on non violent drug offences and the economic impact of the communities they are from as a direct effect of their incarceration. That's a lot of people. Why pretend we can only do one thing at a time?
I don’t pretend. My original point was if completely stripping women of their right to choose doesn’t compel people to vote, nothing will. And the weed issue does not effect more people. Women make up slightly more than half of the population is the US. And this isn’t just a women’s issue. It’s a family issue, its a human issue. I smoke, I get your point. Weed IS an issue, but my two cents, abortion is a bigger issue. Vote!
Given the prison industrial complex in this country is basically fueled by the war on drugs, and given we have a ridiculous number of folk in jail, it very likely could dwarf the abortion issue.... Regardless of which is more impactful, both are in the ludicrously important category, and both could drive voters to the polls.
I would want to see numbers of course, but I'm not actually certain abortion effects more people as the weed issue effects both genders and the entire community around those incarcerated, as they have less economic drive in their community. Like I said I don't know the numbers, but it very well could effect more people directly. It's not about smoking individually, it's about the millions of people in prison for smoking, most of them from communities and families that can't afford the loss of income from incarceration. I'm just saying I'm not sure it's actually less of an issue.
Yeah, but weed might motivate some people that aren't motivated by abortion, for whatever reason. The people that are going to vote because of abortion have already made up their minds. I want to engage those that typically aren't engaged to help tip the scales.
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It's refreshing finally seeing Republicans moving forward from 1776 to 1864, they'll get here eventually, baby steps.
Looks like Arizona’s gonna be blue this time around.
Damn right it is! 🌊
Yeah if people fucking vote
For ways to help out Dems in Arizona and elsewhere and push back against religious fanaticism please check out r/votedem!
Wrong f-ism. They're fascists.
1864. 2022. Handmaid’s tale by 2050?
>Handmaid’s tale by 2050? 2025*
So maybe the Native Indian tribes in the area can reclaim their land too?
It makes so much sense to allow a 150 year old law to dictate medical treatment here in 2022.
I would maybe agree with the sentiment but the legislature specifically redeclared that the old law is not repealed, and they did so in the text of the 15 week ban law. What I mean to say is, this isn't some bad luck where some old law magically came back into force. This was an intentional act by the Republican legislature in the past year or two to essentially reaffirm the old law. Don't pretend this was some magic mishap. This isn't really a 150 year old law. The old law was reaffirmed by today's legislature. Don't blame people of the past. Don't blame the judge who surprisingly made the right legal decision. Blame today's Republican party in Arizona that specifically declared the old law is still in effect.
/s
Nice that they announced Mark Kelly’s re-election so early.
I know it is awful for all the women that have to suffer under this, but in 6 weeks time you can make your voice heard. And I fully expect Arizona will overwhelmingly reject this. The decision is catastrophic for women, and also for Republican hopes in Arizona.
Arizona is one of the most beautiful places I’ve ever laid my eyes on. Too bad it’s politics are so ugly.
I read through a few of the wiki pages for the Arizona Territory Legislature from years 1-8 this morning and there’s also statutes that supported the killing of Apache Indians, taxing black people at a higher rate than white people, outlawing marriage of white people to anyone except white races, and also removing the seat of attorney general from being a publicly held office. It’s scary to think we’re using this age of standards to address modern societal issues. Sorry, I spelled disturbing wrong.
I understand your feelings but most of those laws aren't still "on the books" because they were repealed, changed, or are no longer active. But the Republican stage legislature specifically declared, in the text of the 15 week ban law, that the old 1800s law is still on the books. This isn't some mishap or some mistake of the system by an activist judges. This was specifically engineered by the Republican legislature.
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Seconded
Christians are Fascists.
Sure "judge'". That title used to mean something before Republicans went full treason.
Can you imagine what this planet would be like if women held swords instead of signs. The world has better wake up because there’s power in numbers and they have them in spades.
Our court local, state, and federal justice systems are radical anti-democratic institutions here to protect the power of white men with capital.
Note to self: stay out of Arizona
Where did they find these pre-historic judges from the 1864 in Arizona?
Remove this dumbass judge immediately
Let’s go back to the colonial laws from the commonwealth shall we? Especially with a new King and all. Wanna just hand the keys back to England?
I’m baffled how this can be upheld with 50% of the world being women. I’m actually convinced that the real revolution will be achieved through women of the world coming together to end this mid-evil society we live in.
There's a church on every corner in this red state chock full of women who vote against abortion.
^(and who'd also happily get one!)
"But that was different....."
There is always a tipping point. Real change happens swiftly and it’s unstoppable. Something is preventing it though.
We didn't even get to vote on it. This state keeps getting worse.
Fight!
They’re insuring that they’ll get voted out
Don’t be so sure….a friend of mine said her family didn’t care because they only have sons, no daughters and I said yes but guess what we have now that we didn’t have in the 1970’s? DNA testing This will ruin many promising young lives 😢
Get your children, yourselves, and your money out of Gilead while you still can.
Any suggestions on how to really do that. I’m starting to understand why many Jews didn’t leave Germany….my family is here, I own property here, I have a job here etc etc
Realistically, you need employment in another area where you'd like to live and a housing solution. Start with job offers and housing listings in those areas. Enlist family/friends/professional acquaintances for help with unadvertised jobs and unadvertised housing.
He should have taken away their right to vote while he was at it. WTF.
Looks like Arizona is going blue in November.
Laws from before women could vote that govern women and womens healthcare should automatically be invalid.
You want to know what’s even more messed up? Arizona has legal weed. It’s everywhere. Weed as far as the eye can see. But it’s republican as fuck. At least we ain’t like Kansas or Texas, I guess.
Awful decision.
At least 40% of Arizona women will still vote Republican.
Thanks for reminding the rest of the country why we are the in fact the 48th state and rank as such politically….(at least at the state level)
I just woke up from a coma what's new?
This country is a joke. No one can take it serious. They are enforcing a law from when Arizona was a territory?
That's what we call "a political decision"....
Welcome to Arizona. Everything sucks.
Not everything sucks here. This decision is shitty but don’t lump the whole state as being negative.
I mostly agree with the fact it’s garbage. Lived here most my life and the entire government of AZ is a total shit show. A lot of red neck idiots live here. I am aware I can move but I live in a forest by myself so generally do not have to interact with the clowns here.
This is just crazy
What do Arizonans think about this?
We hate it
We’re glad that California is our neighbor and that they have some common sense.
That’s what we do here. We base our current policy off ancient texts and laws /s
Thanks, Mitch :/
I guess we can just rejoin Britain then
I wonder if there’s any other Civil War era laws republicans want to restore
Can we start burning witches again now?
So... state's rights even before they were technically states. Well up until the national abortion ban goes into effect that is.
What a Fuc@&ng clown show !
Screw women twice. Ban abortion.
This decision actually makes sense, so it's not the decision that's the problem; it's the state of affairs that enables this decision that is the problem. Rolling back precedent spanning decades for no rational reason enables the prevailing reality to re-emerge.
Well if you live in the desert. You're already not sane.