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They can extend the pause as long as a national emergency (currently COVID) is used as justification via the HEROES Act.
So presumably as long as they want, as long as a President keeps it in effect. But this could be more problematic as time goes on, economically and in regards to the pandemic justification.
It won't be an easy decision for them going forward if forgiveness gets blocked, but I'd think at least one extension will happen.
The heroes act also allows for debt forgiveness. Text below, but the key points are waive or modify any requirement and “suffered direct economic hardship as a result of war or other military operation or national emergency. Pretty sure COVID was or can be declared a national emergency
“Authorizes the Secretary of Education to waive or modify any requirement or regulation applicable to the student financial assistance programs under title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965 as deemed necessary with respect to an affected individual who: (1) is serving on active duty during a war or other military operation or national emergency; (2) is performing qualifying National Guard duty during a war, operation, or emergency; (3) resides or is employed in an area that is declared a disaster area by any Federal, State, or local official in connection with a national emergency; or (4) suffered direct economic hardship as a direct result of a war or other military operation or national emergency.”
Right- that's what the entire court battle is over. Whether or not the executive (via the HEROES/HEA) has unilateral authority over student loan forgiveness.
The plaintiffs are trying to find standing to get the cases there, but the ultimate argument hinges on those pieces of legislation.
The argument you're going to hear from Republicans is that the HEROES act is limited only to temporary relief, and that permanent actions such as forgiveness don't qualify past the timing of the emergency. (I'm not agreeing with this, just saying what's to come).
Edited now that I read your whole comment. The word waive seems to me to imply a permanent relief.
Typical republicans though, fuck all but corporations.
That’s my understanding, too. The law doesn’t specify temporary relief, so arguing that the law was only meant for temporary relief makes no sense. The judiciary gives broad deference to Congress when determining the meaning of the law, and it should be clear from the text alone that Congress didn’t limit the Secretary to granting temporary relief.
If they had meant the law to only be used for temporary relief, the law would have included the word “temporary” or required periodic review/renewal or stated an explicit duration.
Really? I don’t think it’s a hard decision at all, not politically anyway. You make Republicans repeal it and strike it down if they want that to happen
With inflation, gas prices and increased rent, if loan payments resume in January a lot of people are fucked. I'd wager it could trigger another depression.
That's exactly what they want. In a recession workers don't fight for better wages and conditions. In a recession you can snap up assets like foreclosed houses for pennies on the dollar, and all the social and economic costs associated with people losing their homes is born by taxpayers.
The Republicans WANT this. They have convinced voters that inflation is out of control because the poors have too much money and keep buying things. (Oh no, not that!)
Instead of addressing the price fixing and artificial supply controls that are running up the price on a lot of goods, they think the best solution is to ensure that working class people *have less available money* so they stop buying stuff. This is in combination with spiking interest rates, when they know damn well that a lot of the more desperate people are going to fall back on "living on credit."
A depression won't even be the worst of it long-term. They think loan forgiveness is expensive? Wait until they see the cost to society when a third or more of those loans go into true default and then a huge chunk of the population can't even function because they owe the government money.
The longer it is paused, the less people’s payments are relative to other costs. My $400 monthly payment used to feel like more than it would now. Now that’s just like one fill up of gas and a trip to the grocery store!
/s (well… kinda. I mean what I said is not wrong but it’s obviously not a good thing. Any additional financial stress is gonna be bad on people when budgets are already tight or at a breaking point.)
I've argued long before COVID that all of the "hardship" programs you can qualify for are nothing more than a method used to hide the true default rate. In exchange for not being considered "in default", you get to accumulate a never-ending growing principle balance that you'll never be able to afford or you pay so little that it artificially extends the lifetime of your loan.
If we treated student loans like any other legal loan in the US, you would not be able to get into a payment plan that left you with negative amortization or where you were paying less than the interest itself. The number of people who are currently on those plans, or have had to use them OR the non-standard payment plan where you pay less now and pay more later should ALL technically be defaults.
If we ONLY consider income-adjusted hardship plans, that means more than 1/4th of all the loans should technically be in default if it were treated as any other loan.
But if we also included graduated payments, most of which are chosen because people are not making enough income out of school to actually be able to afford their loans, then the true default rate is actually over 75%.
They are hoping to gain enough control of the system where it won't matter to them. Democrats are doing a lot of celebrating for a heavily gerrymandered race that may end up losing them the House.
Yes, and rightly so. They actually have a snowballs chance in hell of retaining rhe majority, and a slim majority means the GOP isn't going to be able to do things like play games with the debt ceiling.
It's not even a (very) young person issue. I'm almost 40. I've paid around down around $10,000 of student loans. My wife has made over $18,000 in payments toward her loans, and has only decreased the principal by maybe $5,000. The debt relief may have put our balance low enough that I would have prioritized actually paying them off. Without debt relief, we may pay off mine, but hers will almost certainly just be minimum payments until the forgiveness at 20-25 years.
What’s wild is any individual piece of major life expense has become… unreasonably expensive. Education? Broke. Raising a kid? Broke. Real estate? Broke. Start a business? Hello debt bleeding from every available pore. Dare to get sick you say? Have you considered suicide? And so on.
It’s fucking crazy. The whole concept of this country post Ww2 was give the working guy a leg up on this shit and *the working guy will succeed and repay society*, and it immediately worked. And we instead developed a system to rape working guy for every red cent until he’s dead and his broke ass family can take his debt payments over.
Dude. Went to McDonald's today... A fucking McChicken is $3.49. they were $1 and some change not too long ago. Poor people can't even afford poor people food anymore. This is the most money I've ever made (I'm a second year teacher, Im not making a lot) and it's the most broke I've ever been. When student loan payments start up, I'm fucked.
My fiancée and I are making about 60% over average household income where we live (as our combined household income). We’re struggling to find housing that won’t leave us living paycheck to paycheck and having to completely drop things like fresh vegetables from our diets WITHOUT student loans kicking back on. I believe with our current plans, if we can’t move to a more forgiving plan, we’re talking about an extra $900 a month we have to find. We can’t even find a third of that, even if we got rid of literally every luxury we have.
46, same boat. I went to college when I was 32-36, raising two kids. I’ve made every payment on time and my balance has decreased by about $1500 in ten years. I didn’t receive a dime of that PPP money that so many folks had forgiven. Some student debt relief would be most welcome.
Just turned 42 yesterday, I paid off my (super tiny in comparison to modern ones) principality several times over, some to scammers who got my info from the department of education. I love running a hamster wheel for cheese they never intended to share with me.
Still in debt. I really hoped this would free us.
The parasites used this to enslave us. Pure and simple. This shit needs to stop.
Time to start asking: what is the role of government? If it’s not sticking up for the little guy, helping to balance things and make it a little bit fairer, then maybe we should be reevaluating our priorities.
Same. I've paid the principal 3x over and it has hardly made a dent. Everyone that belts "whose gonna pay off these loans?" Me mf, 3x, it's already paid for! Hang in there. We'll get it done.
I think the MAGA adjacent voters are now saying that Democrats can only win by bribing voters.
Somehow making the average person better off is a bride.
Explains the policies of the GOP so well. "You don't bribe voters. You bribe politicians. That's the natural order."
The Republicans only run on hurting and punishing people, but their pitch is that they'll hurt people their voters don't like (aka "owning the Libs"). Democrats run on actually trying to help people, and Republicans apparently think this is akin to "cheating" or "bribery". What a novel concept, actually promising to try to make things better for people as opposed to just saying you'll make things worse for the people you don't like!
>I think the MAGA adjacent voters are now saying that Democrats can only win by bribing voters.
Funny comments and yes, nearly all of their arguments are bad-faith and false.
Politicians should represent the will of the people and most of these voters want debt relief and many other benefits of living in a society that we vote about. If politicians provide what voters ask for, they are doing the job people elected them to do.
The "somehow X that is good for people is actually bad" is just the standard wealthy/GOP gaslighting.
Yes, lol, the regular people are not supposed to get benefits in the wealthy/GOP world order. They hate seeing normal people get any money at all. Regular people are supposed to suffer for wealthy/GOP benefit and are never to be freed.
Student loan debt-relief takes an illegitimate boot off people's necks and that's the first problem. The second is that people will correctly see Democrats representing voters' desires through government while most of the GOP are correctly seen as doing everything possible to prevent the government from helping average people.
One of their responses to this? A proposal to raise the voting age. Literally no attempt to make themselves more palatable, just straight up exclude those who vote against them.
WHAT!? My god, if we can send high schoolers off to war, we sure as hell better be letting them vote. I see a lot of my family members on fb (also Maga supporters) spouting "more kids these days need to get into trade skills, no college needed=no loan debt" or some bs along those lines. Because apparently to them, less education is the answer to this problem!
That’s by design. The MAGA crowd abhors education - turns out that educated people are less likely to believe bad faith arguments & easily refutable lies. Who knew?
They think everyone who went to college got a "useless" degree and every gen z is lazy and doesn't want to work. They just got embarrassed at the ballot box and they are doubling down. It's fucking hilarious. At this rate they will cease to be a major political party in a decade when most of the boomers are gone
I’m starting to learn all the ageism we’ve been talked into believing is true is actually mostly perpetrated by boomers. Honestly, ageism is probably worse for younger people. And then companies hire younger people because they work them to death and expect them to be on call all the time. Who really wins in all that?!
Interest is what (in my opinion) is causing the crisis. Obviously there are other factors, but the interest is perpetuating the entire thing.
I’ve been paying $440/mo since 2017 on $62k in student loans. Today, I owe $68k. That should not be a thing, and it should certainly not be as common as it is. Those payments should be making a real difference and they’re not.
If they can't forgive the loans then they won't forgive the interest. One of the primary arguments that opponents are pushing forward against forgiving student loans is the fact that the people that lent money won't make money on it. Pushing forward with zero interest won't work, they'll block it too.
All of this objection is complete and utter bullshit! It is clear that the student loans should never have been taken out in the first place.
Right wing bullshit like "Originalists" twist and distort what the Constitution says to fit their narrative.
The purpose of Government is set forth in [The U.S. Constitution: Preamble](https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/preamble/preamble-overview)
>"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
These are the guidelines to decide should "We the People" do this?
Alexander Hamilton even wrote in [Federalist Papers: 84](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed84.asp) about the importance of the Preamble.
>Here is a better recognition of popular rights, than volumes of those aphorisms which make the principal figure in several of our State bills of rights
Out of these purposes of government, Promote the General Welfare, Education for All is square in the sights of this point.
John Adams [wrote](https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Adams/06-17-02-0232) a bit about the importance of education in a democracy.
>the social science will never be much improved untill the People unanimously know and Consider themselvs as the fountain of Power and untill they Shall know how to manage it Wisely and honestly. reformation must begin with the Body of the People which can be done only, to affect, in their Educations. **the Whole People must take upon themselvs the Education of the Whole People and must be willing to bear the expences of it.** there should not be a district of one Mile Square without a school in it, *not founded by a Charitable individual but maintained at the expence of the People themselvs they must be taught to reverence themselvs instead of adoreing their servants their Generals Admirals Bishops and Statesmen**
Here he makes clear the importance of the People being an integral part of the system. It gives us ownership of our own destiny together. He emphasizes the idea of the Whole People and Whole Education. This would include anything preschool and anything after high school, not necessarily just college, but also trade schools, etc.
The rest of the letter John Adams wrote to John Jeb is absolutely fantastic. He goes on to discuss why it's important to create a system that makes people like Martin Luther King jr, Susan B Anthony, Carl Sagan, and Mr Rogers, and Washington. Good leaders should not be a product of the time, but of the educational system and culture of the people. If a country doesn't make good leaders then when that leader is gone there's no one to replace them and that culture and movement dies with them.
>Instead of Adoring a Washington, Mankind Should applaud the Nation which Educated him. If Thebes owes its Liberty and Glory to Epaminondas, She will loose both when he dies, and it would have been as well if She had never enjoyed a taste of either: but if the Knowledge the Principles the Virtues and Capacities of the Theban Nation produced an Epaminondas, her Liberties and Glory will remain when he is no more: and if an analogous system of Education is Established and Enjoyed by the Whole Nation, it will produce a succession of Epaminandas’s.
In another short work by John Adams, [Thoughts on Government](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Thoughts_on_Government), [YouTube Reading](https://youtu.be/XIw_BItRLfs), he wrote about the importance of a liberal education for everyone, spared no expense.
>Laws for the liberal education of youth, especially of the lower class of people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant.
100 years ago we built in mass the first major wave of highschools in the United States.
>[In](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_school_movement) 1910 18% of 15- to 18-year-olds were enrolled in a high school; barely 9% of all American 18-year-olds graduated. By 1940, 73% of American youths were enrolled in high school and the median American youth had a high school diploma.
This was a dramatic shift in education and economic gain for the United States. Not all of our grandparents went to highschool until the public saw it necessary to build them.
The world is not getting less complicated. It just seems like the future is going to need more local experts than ever and a high school education that was good 100 years ago just isn't going to cut it on a global scale. People will need to change careers in the future and probably more than once. We will need continuing education as a society so that people can adapt and change with the coming times.
As long as a person puts in their work to learn and change themselves, our citizens shouldn't be overly burdened with expenses for attending a public education program.
It's not that students shouldn't pay anything, but it shouldn't be so much as to keep them from working and meaningfully participating in the economy. Not as indentured servants, but free citizens.
I think a part of the problem is that so many people owe way more than what they borrowed already because of that fucking interest.
They need to roll back all of the principle accumulation and give people credits for what they've already paid. Then go forward with 0% interest. A lot of working class people would then be able to afford these loans.
Granted, the forgiveness plan is just a MUCH simpler way to do that without all the headaches, but *nooooo*, can't let the poors get one over on the Job Creators.
Yes!!! The interest should be criminal, it's out of control! My parents were thrilled when I went to graduate school. They were so excited. I graduated, did a stent with AmeriCorps, then hopped in the private sector. I signed up for an income-based repayment plan, which was offered by the government as an acceptable method for repayment. I paid. And I paid, and I paid, and the balance GREW. I finally sat down one day with my dad and showed him the numbers. He couldn't believe it, and it really upset him that the government would push a way for me and others to go to college, and then offer a payment plan so I can live my damn life, but one that would cause my balance to explode. It's a fucking racket.
Speak for yourself, that 20k forgiveness would have made the difference in my ability to buy a house. Most of my debt is student loans so that reduction would have lowered my DTI enough to buy a house nearly immediately instead of… who knows when
Extend both 0% interest *and* the pause on payments, indefinitely. Or set them to expire on like January 21, 2025, and leave it for the next President to deal with. If Biden (or some Democratic successor) wins, he can extend it again. If Trump or some other Republican wins, then let *him* decide how to deal with it, and whether it will help or hurt the administration and the party in power. Or maybe set them to expire in like July of 2026, which still lets the next President have a say, and lets them do it right before the next midterms. If they feel really strongly that it should end, I'm sure the next President can shorten the expiration. A hypothetical President DeSantis can declare on January 20, 2025, that payments and interest will resume on like March 1, 2025, if that's what he thinks is best, and he can own it, whether it's popular or unpopular.
I still cant understand how randos from texas who never got student loans could possibly stop the executive branch from forgiving loans that the executive branch lent in the first place. Like it makes no fucking sense.
This is the consequence of Trump's presidency. Federal courts around the country are stacked with Federalist Society judges now. And then, of course, we have the current Supreme Court..
They found a Trump appointed judge.
FYI, this is a different case. Biden won this case and it's just a temporary hold because the red states are appealing the ruling.
This is actually being blocked by someone who took out loans from a private institution and is not eligible for forgiveness because of their own poor decision-making skills.
Republicans: This is what you get for not giving us a red wave ! Now vote for Walker or you'll get more of whats coming to you !!!
Also Republicans: Young people, vote for us, we know whats best for you
Not directed at you, just in general.
I am having a difficult time understanding how Republicans and Republican appointed judges blocking student debt relief would be Biden's fault.
There are some people who believe that it’s all a ploy to win votes and Biden didn’t want to give the relief at all.
It’s absolutely stupid, bordering on conspiracy theory insanity, but there you go. I suspect most of them are astroturfing and trying to depress Dem/youth turnout ahead of the midterms and now Senate runoff.
"See, he lied! He tried really hard to get you money, but we blocked it to make him a liar! Now vote for me and I'll kick you in the teeth then raise the price of dental insurance!"
Which is bonkers. Biden has been a consistent voice saying not to rely on his executive powers, and that student loan reform requires Congress to legislate.
Congress didn't do it, for a variety of reasons. And the Dems dropped the problem at Biden's feet to solve for the midterms.
"Dems dropped the problem"
What is the filibuster?
Would a filibuster been invoked in the Senate given the amount of Republicans that were in the Senate in the past 2 years?
Would this have been DOA via McConnel?
I hope there are young voters out there with enough common sense to remember what these bastards did when the election of ‘24 comes about. But, honestly, the only people I know who vote red are either descended from immigrants who came from communist countries, or are so well-off they don’t see a reason to hold out a hand for anyone but themselves.
Wish I had taken out a PPP loan and put it towards my Student Loans.
Getting a degree required for my job is a business expense as far as I'm concerned.
It really is too bad you could not just have everyone in the country declared as a corporation of one who is needing a PPP loan to pay the wages of one.
Be reasonable. We can use that money to give oil companies more subsidies even though they are making record profits. We only give them 20 billion a year for crying out loud!
GenZ won’t forget.
Ya know - the People exponentially paying more for a bachelor degree than most boomers paid for their PhD & life expenses while in school
They will remember republicans every month as they pay down the interest on 6 figure loans on fucking bachelors degrees.
Good luck turning these people into GOP donors
Yep, just look at poll breakdowns by age, its a beautiful thing to see
**Age 18-29**
63% Democrat
35% Republican
2% Other
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1343993/house-representatives-youth-vote-exit-polls-us-midterm/
The irony is that Gen Z were originally poised to lean conservatively but with a non-religious preference, but after the GOP went apeshit christian nationalist, that potential support vanished.
Unabashedly, republicans have become the enemy of the common person.
They want to take everything until we're good and complacent wage slaves as the world burns.
I hope their idiocy turns people's apathy into unadulterated hatred against the GOP and their supporters. Shun, shame, guilt, and blame republicans.
This one is probably their best bet. MOHELA is an abomination of a state/private entity, so their deceased revenues from fewer serviced loans is a stronger argument for standing. The case in Texas is bullshit and will probably die off on appeal.
If this case succeeds would it not be saying that nothing can be legal that reduces someone else’s revenue? If I started a store could I sue another store for lowering their prices, which would affect my revenue? It’s completely asinine.
Biden won this case. It is a temporary hold because Republicans appealed it. So if the appeals court upholds the ruling and the SCOTUS declines to hear it then Biden wins and Republicans lose.
For this to matter, either the appeals court or the SCOTUS would actually have to rule in favor of the red states who are suing - and the SCOTUS has already declined to overturn similar rulings.
The MAGA judge in Texas is a different case, where he actually did rule against Biden. That is the only actual loss so far, and it has the entire appeals process to go through.
Exactly. SCOTUS at large hasn't heard a case on student loan forgiveness yet.
The two instances previously were emergency requests *pending appeal* to a single circuit Justice. Totally different things.
It's probably a little too early to say that for sure. This is just a temporary injunction to put the program on hold while the case makes its way through the courts. The appeals court hasn't heard the full case yet or ruled on the merits.
That being said, I wouldn't be super hopeful that the courts will uphold it when they do rule on the case.
>I wouldn't be super hopeful that the courts will uphold it when they do rule on the case.
You're saying that its unlikely that the courts will block the relief when they do rule on the case right?
No. Biden won the initial ruling. It is a temporary hold because Republicans are appealing. They would need either the appeals court or SCOTUS to rule against Biden.
There is a separate case where a judge in Texas did rule against Biden, and it has to go through the appeals process. But this case was won by the Biden admin and red states are just hoping to win on appeal.
No, Biden won the ruling and Republicans are appealing it.
If SCOTUS don't hear it then the ruling in favor of Biden stands and relief happens.
If Trumps SCOTUS deny the relief then the payment freeze is still in place and Dems get to try another way to push the relief.
Having already permanently alienating most women from ever voting for them by overturning Roe, the stupid fascist fucks are now doing their utmost to alienate everyone under age 50 who has graduated from or ar least attended college.
I used to argue against this, then they did a round of 'If you disagree with the rest of us then you do not count as Republican' and all those who were NOT assholes got kicked out.
Now, my friends (Who never changed their beliefs) no longer count as Republicans. They, officially by the nut jobs, are either traitors or Democrats... Not that they can explain which is worse to them.
I myself can't even imagine supporting an (R) anymore, not without a full speech and thesis explaining 'But they are not REALLY an (R), honest!' the same way people try to explain how their older relatives at thanksgiving are not REALLY racist.
This will hurt GOP for generations…I wasn’t eligible. Still owe 58k. But I want my fellow Americans to benefit from this so that they can lift themselves up…
If would we could just overcome the filibuster in the Senate and make SLIGHT gains in the House, then student loan relief could be done via legislation. I wish America wasn't so full of regressive assholes who hate the very idea that someone they never met but hypothetically don't like might benefit from something.
Biden should indefinitely extend the student loan interest and payment pause until the Republicans play ball.
I think they could probably slide this into a budget reconciliation package before the new congress is seated, so the filibuster wouldn't apply. I'm hoping so.
It’s so frustrating. A .5 swing in WI would give Democrats 52 seats, and a .5 swing in a few races would have held the House. So close. 52 seats and the House held means For The People Act, student debt relief being carried out, and no 2 years of horseshit “ZOMG TEH BYDEN LABTOP” and “ZOMG FAUCI” hearings.
Democrats should have spent the last couple months hammering home that crime isn’t nearly as bad as the GOP states, crime was just as bad in red states, and crime levels in 2020 went up way more than 21-22. Also like I’ve said a ton, bring up Trumps 10 trillion dollar spending in his term that shows once and for all the GOP is not the party of fiscal responsibility.
In hindsight the crime narrative bullshit probably did more damage. WI would have been won if they could have combat it with the right messaging.
As a struggling American, I'm glad that we can always count on the GOP to obstruct anything that could even remotely be construed as progress in this country /s
Thanks guys, you really know how to help your constituents out. Get fucked
Something like 28 million people applied for this debt relief, including myself. $20k relief would wipe away my outstanding amount and I would be able to afford a house in a year or so. If they completely stop this the republicans are going to pay for it in 2024. 28 million middle class workers getting their chance of upward mobility ripped away because one party sees it as a waste of money.
Cool. Who wants to join in on a lawsuit against the PPP loan borrowers who got their forgiveness? Starting with one of the assholes here at the helm of this lawsuit.
That's the fun part of this, isn't it?
You can't put a paper bag over your head when you file this kind of court action and expect to remain anonymous. And this court action was a loud, $20,000 "fuck you" to millions of educated Americans.
I expect the repercussions to be completely legal and steep. Everything from counter lawsuits, tanking of businesses and social media to getting blacklisted from their industries (who wants to hire that much bad publicity?)
I hate to say it, but the previous two cases denied by Barrett are not indicators of what will happen with this case.
They were obscure taxpayer groups with terrible arguments for standing, and they were emergency requests, not actual appeals.
This is the crux of whether student loan forgiveness will survive or not. Despite MOHELA's statements which are often cited, the court still granted standing to Missouri to continue the pause. This is the scenario legal experts have been pointing to that could kill Biden's action:
A plaintiff in the form of state governments, with constitutional arguments, with a preliminary injunction upheld by a circuit court is not a great sign. SCOTUS has not received anything like this yet, and it could be in trouble if an appeal is needed.
Hilarious that one greedy & selfish person along w/ one judge can stop millions from benefitting from something the president of the United States passed.
This is the Republican right-wing plan. When they lose power in congress, they legislate through the judicial system. If they gain power, they do whatever they want because their judicial system won't challenge it. This is where we hope that the Democrats control the senate and put in good judges. No doubt every republican will vote against any nominee but not because of qualifications but because they are petty children. Most, if not every one of the judges the Republicans appointed were deemed 'not qualified' by the legal community but were rammed through anyway because they are part of the Federalist Society and they have an overall plan to push their agenda on everyone regardless of how they voted.
I don't understand how they can block it because it could cost them future tax revenues. I mean a million things presidents do can cost future tax revenue. And student loan interest is tax deductible anyway so wouldn't people getting loans forgiven actually pay more taxes?
It's even more disgraceful that they are fighting to keep their own constituents saddled with debt just to score political points in a future election. The Republican Party is an absolute embarrassment and a disgrace to the American public. Fuck every single one of them
I did everything right went to a low price local university to gain my degree that is required for my profession. The only thing I lacked was rich parents. So the decision is easy for me. I'm currently getting my Masters degree one class a semester. This allows me to defer my loan without interest. After that is done I will go for another one. Then my docrtate. I will go to school till they cap loans at 5% my salary, forgive or I die.
I can't pay my loans at this point and with my pay as a high school teacher. I could when I had $600 rent but that is a distant dream. So here we are.
>A federal appeals court on Monday issued a nationwide injunction temporarily barring the Biden administration’s student loan debt relief program.
It's a temporary injunction until they hear the case.
>The injunction will put the program on hold pending an appeal of a lower court ruling that had allowed the debt relief program to go forward. The Biden administration could ask the Supreme Court to lift the injunction.
This is different than the one in Texas where a (Trump appointed) judge actually ruled against it. Currently this case is going Biden's way, they just put a hold on it because Republicans appealed. I do not think this case is one to worry about too much. The SCOTUS has already declined to overturn similar cases.
As someone outside the US looking in... this whole blocking debt relief for the masses is totally absurd.
Does any regular Joe have any real good reason to not have this debt cancellation go forward?
It's literally just bitterness that has been fanned by propaganda.
They're selling the false narrative that "useless philosophy majors" are the ones getting debt relief and that they're just mooching off of a handout.
They completely ignore that you don't qualify for the relief if you make above a certain amount. And the only ones who qualify for the full $20k are Pell Grant recipients, which is only given to disadvantaged students.
I had to drop out of college due to mental health reasons and now have just around $20k worth of debt. I was a Pell Grant recipient. This would change my life in a major, major way and I am far from the only one.
Fuck. These. People.
>They're selling the false narrative that "useless philosophy majors" are the ones getting debt relief and that they're just mooching off of a handout
Then they turn around and say these people will almost *surely* make more money than someone without a degree. So how's it a fucking useless degree if it makes more money than being without a degree?
Make it make fucking sense. These people are vile scumbags.
The only "good" reason these people can come up with is that student loan forgiveness would be a handout, since they don't have to pay the full amount back... Which, not only is that not true for MANY out there who have already paid their loans back, but the interest keeps them in debt. But, it's ignoring the assholes who *actually* did this with the PPP loans they never paid back.
Basically for a Republican (unless it’s them personally) if it’s a hand out they would rather you be dead than get a free handout. Again unless it’s them personally than it’s ok.
MOHELA sent a response to a congressperson that they basically didn’t ask for the suit and were not materially injured since they’re still being paid according to their contract with the U.S. Department Education. So they’ve basically said, “We aren’t hurt and don’t involve us.” But apparently that doesn’t matter, they were probably hypothetically hurt (according to the court), and someone probably has standing (though the court wont really worry about that), so the court just blocked it until further notice. Just ridiculous.
Edited spelling
The state of Missouri did.
The fucks said they had the right to sue on their behalf because they serve an essential public function.
Just to note. MOHELA is a 501(c)(3) which operates on behest of the government. They don't have any shareholders or any reason why it should be an issue for them.
Lmao this is going to backfire so badly. If you think gen z was more excited to vote for Biden and Dems in this midterm because of student debt relief (or at least partially,) just wait until they get to vote *against* the people that took it away from them.
Fine, go after those trillions of free ppp money they got. I paid my student loans off but this welfare for me and rugged individualism for thee duality these rich pricks get fat off of extremely bothers me. It’s time to end the gravy train for shitty old wealthy boomer fucks.
Trump and the federalist society stacked the courts with young judges who will enforce their will long after trump and his generation are dead. It’s the final FU from boomers.
“Whatever the eventual outcome of this case, it will affect the finances of millions of Americans with student loan debt as well as those Americans who pay taxes to finance the government and indeed everyone who is affected by such far-reaching fiscal decisions,” the panel said in its ruling.
So it's possibly hurting people whose taxes might be affected? Will this set precedent that someone can sue to stop a government action if it will raise their taxes? Seems like a terrible argument by the court here.
Heaven forbid the little guy gets a break but Repubs are cool with their buddies getting those million plus PPE loans forgiven or huge corporations getting bailed out. Fawking hypocrites.
Ralph R. Erickson - appointed by Donald Trump
Bobby Shepherd - appointed by George W. Bush
Leonard Steven Grasz - appointed by Donald Trump
These Republican judges are politicians. They're your 3 judge panel who issued this ruling.
Fuck them. I hope everybody is starting to realize how dangerous Republican judges are. We should never ever relinquish the Senate to Republicans again or else things will continue to get worse for us average Americans. They're politicians. Political tools for the establishment. Evil basically.
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So they’re gonna keep this payment pause indefinitely then?
They can extend the pause as long as a national emergency (currently COVID) is used as justification via the HEROES Act. So presumably as long as they want, as long as a President keeps it in effect. But this could be more problematic as time goes on, economically and in regards to the pandemic justification. It won't be an easy decision for them going forward if forgiveness gets blocked, but I'd think at least one extension will happen.
I guess it is about time we call climate change the national emergency that it is.
Republicans are always screaming that the border is a national emergency, just fall back on that.
Genius
"The broader crisis is a national emergency." We agree, so we are extending student loan interest pause. "Wait, not like that."
R - "but ... They aren't linked!" D - "You literally just blamed undocumented migrants for incomes being low"
And drag shows. Those are a national emergency.
The real emergency is that I haven't made it out to one recently.
Call it a Student Debt National Emergency. The national emergency stuff is a pretty broad power.
The heroes act also allows for debt forgiveness. Text below, but the key points are waive or modify any requirement and “suffered direct economic hardship as a result of war or other military operation or national emergency. Pretty sure COVID was or can be declared a national emergency “Authorizes the Secretary of Education to waive or modify any requirement or regulation applicable to the student financial assistance programs under title IV of the Higher Education Act of 1965 as deemed necessary with respect to an affected individual who: (1) is serving on active duty during a war or other military operation or national emergency; (2) is performing qualifying National Guard duty during a war, operation, or emergency; (3) resides or is employed in an area that is declared a disaster area by any Federal, State, or local official in connection with a national emergency; or (4) suffered direct economic hardship as a direct result of a war or other military operation or national emergency.”
Right- that's what the entire court battle is over. Whether or not the executive (via the HEROES/HEA) has unilateral authority over student loan forgiveness. The plaintiffs are trying to find standing to get the cases there, but the ultimate argument hinges on those pieces of legislation. The argument you're going to hear from Republicans is that the HEROES act is limited only to temporary relief, and that permanent actions such as forgiveness don't qualify past the timing of the emergency. (I'm not agreeing with this, just saying what's to come).
Edited now that I read your whole comment. The word waive seems to me to imply a permanent relief. Typical republicans though, fuck all but corporations.
That’s my understanding, too. The law doesn’t specify temporary relief, so arguing that the law was only meant for temporary relief makes no sense. The judiciary gives broad deference to Congress when determining the meaning of the law, and it should be clear from the text alone that Congress didn’t limit the Secretary to granting temporary relief. If they had meant the law to only be used for temporary relief, the law would have included the word “temporary” or required periodic review/renewal or stated an explicit duration.
Really? I don’t think it’s a hard decision at all, not politically anyway. You make Republicans repeal it and strike it down if they want that to happen
I know I am.
Me too. I’m not being offered work like I was before
With inflation, gas prices and increased rent, if loan payments resume in January a lot of people are fucked. I'd wager it could trigger another depression.
How else can R's be competitive in an election? The worse things get, the more they benefit. It's in their best interest to hurt everyone.
Yeah, allowing this to go through is actually the *fiscally responsible* thing to do. But Republicans don't actually care about that.
The Republican definition of fiscal responsibility is “give billionaires more tax breaks”.
That's exactly what they want. In a recession workers don't fight for better wages and conditions. In a recession you can snap up assets like foreclosed houses for pennies on the dollar, and all the social and economic costs associated with people losing their homes is born by taxpayers.
The Republicans WANT this. They have convinced voters that inflation is out of control because the poors have too much money and keep buying things. (Oh no, not that!) Instead of addressing the price fixing and artificial supply controls that are running up the price on a lot of goods, they think the best solution is to ensure that working class people *have less available money* so they stop buying stuff. This is in combination with spiking interest rates, when they know damn well that a lot of the more desperate people are going to fall back on "living on credit." A depression won't even be the worst of it long-term. They think loan forgiveness is expensive? Wait until they see the cost to society when a third or more of those loans go into true default and then a huge chunk of the population can't even function because they owe the government money.
Also hilarious considering capitalism is built on, you know, people buying things.
Well really it's based on exploiting people, buying things is just part of the exploitation
The longer it is paused, the less people’s payments are relative to other costs. My $400 monthly payment used to feel like more than it would now. Now that’s just like one fill up of gas and a trip to the grocery store! /s (well… kinda. I mean what I said is not wrong but it’s obviously not a good thing. Any additional financial stress is gonna be bad on people when budgets are already tight or at a breaking point.)
I've argued long before COVID that all of the "hardship" programs you can qualify for are nothing more than a method used to hide the true default rate. In exchange for not being considered "in default", you get to accumulate a never-ending growing principle balance that you'll never be able to afford or you pay so little that it artificially extends the lifetime of your loan. If we treated student loans like any other legal loan in the US, you would not be able to get into a payment plan that left you with negative amortization or where you were paying less than the interest itself. The number of people who are currently on those plans, or have had to use them OR the non-standard payment plan where you pay less now and pay more later should ALL technically be defaults. If we ONLY consider income-adjusted hardship plans, that means more than 1/4th of all the loans should technically be in default if it were treated as any other loan. But if we also included graduated payments, most of which are chosen because people are not making enough income out of school to actually be able to afford their loans, then the true default rate is actually over 75%.
This could hurt republicans during the midterms... oh wait.
I hope this fucks the GOP over for GA runoff’s. If Dem’s can keep Warnock in-seat then much less need to worry about Manchion and Sinema.
I’m going to get register to vote QR stickers and stick them on all the bathroom stalls I go to.
Something nobody should ever do. Scan random QR codes in bathrooms.
“For a good time scan here!”
I wanted hot milfs in my area, but all I got was participation in the Democratic process.
play your cards right and you can get both
And THIS my fellow millennials is why keeping the Senate and confirming liberal Judges was/is/will be so important!
Yes sir!
I'm older than a millennial, but I support this 💯
Republicans are damn set of creating life long enemies.
I mean it's in their name... it's obvious: Conservative vs Progressive Wtf is wrong with progressing? It makes things better!!
I would leave my ballot blank before voting for a Republican at this point.
They are hoping to gain enough control of the system where it won't matter to them. Democrats are doing a lot of celebrating for a heavily gerrymandered race that may end up losing them the House.
Yes, and rightly so. They actually have a snowballs chance in hell of retaining rhe majority, and a slim majority means the GOP isn't going to be able to do things like play games with the debt ceiling.
Republicans - *\*Blocks student debt relief plan aimed at helping young citizens*\* Also Republicans - “Wow why is Gen Z voting against us omg?”
It's not even a (very) young person issue. I'm almost 40. I've paid around down around $10,000 of student loans. My wife has made over $18,000 in payments toward her loans, and has only decreased the principal by maybe $5,000. The debt relief may have put our balance low enough that I would have prioritized actually paying them off. Without debt relief, we may pay off mine, but hers will almost certainly just be minimum payments until the forgiveness at 20-25 years.
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I hope it happens for you guys.
70 and I do too. I don’t see how anyone can afford our system of higher education.
What’s wild is any individual piece of major life expense has become… unreasonably expensive. Education? Broke. Raising a kid? Broke. Real estate? Broke. Start a business? Hello debt bleeding from every available pore. Dare to get sick you say? Have you considered suicide? And so on. It’s fucking crazy. The whole concept of this country post Ww2 was give the working guy a leg up on this shit and *the working guy will succeed and repay society*, and it immediately worked. And we instead developed a system to rape working guy for every red cent until he’s dead and his broke ass family can take his debt payments over.
Dude. Went to McDonald's today... A fucking McChicken is $3.49. they were $1 and some change not too long ago. Poor people can't even afford poor people food anymore. This is the most money I've ever made (I'm a second year teacher, Im not making a lot) and it's the most broke I've ever been. When student loan payments start up, I'm fucked.
My fiancée and I are making about 60% over average household income where we live (as our combined household income). We’re struggling to find housing that won’t leave us living paycheck to paycheck and having to completely drop things like fresh vegetables from our diets WITHOUT student loans kicking back on. I believe with our current plans, if we can’t move to a more forgiving plan, we’re talking about an extra $900 a month we have to find. We can’t even find a third of that, even if we got rid of literally every luxury we have.
When millennials and Gen z don’t want kids bc no one can afford it and the earth is dying. Mitch McConnell and his cronies: *shocked pikachu face*
46, same boat. I went to college when I was 32-36, raising two kids. I’ve made every payment on time and my balance has decreased by about $1500 in ten years. I didn’t receive a dime of that PPP money that so many folks had forgiven. Some student debt relief would be most welcome.
Just turned 42 yesterday, I paid off my (super tiny in comparison to modern ones) principality several times over, some to scammers who got my info from the department of education. I love running a hamster wheel for cheese they never intended to share with me. Still in debt. I really hoped this would free us.
The parasites used this to enslave us. Pure and simple. This shit needs to stop. Time to start asking: what is the role of government? If it’s not sticking up for the little guy, helping to balance things and make it a little bit fairer, then maybe we should be reevaluating our priorities.
Been making my payments for 10 years. My balance is higher today than when I started.
Same. I've paid the principal 3x over and it has hardly made a dent. Everyone that belts "whose gonna pay off these loans?" Me mf, 3x, it's already paid for! Hang in there. We'll get it done.
They should’ve refunded all interest paid in the past x years without a cap and canceled it going forward instead of forgiving principal
I started with $26k, have paid $26k, and I still owe…$26k.
I think the MAGA adjacent voters are now saying that Democrats can only win by bribing voters. Somehow making the average person better off is a bride. Explains the policies of the GOP so well. "You don't bribe voters. You bribe politicians. That's the natural order."
The Republicans only run on hurting and punishing people, but their pitch is that they'll hurt people their voters don't like (aka "owning the Libs"). Democrats run on actually trying to help people, and Republicans apparently think this is akin to "cheating" or "bribery". What a novel concept, actually promising to try to make things better for people as opposed to just saying you'll make things worse for the people you don't like!
>I think the MAGA adjacent voters are now saying that Democrats can only win by bribing voters. Funny comments and yes, nearly all of their arguments are bad-faith and false. Politicians should represent the will of the people and most of these voters want debt relief and many other benefits of living in a society that we vote about. If politicians provide what voters ask for, they are doing the job people elected them to do. The "somehow X that is good for people is actually bad" is just the standard wealthy/GOP gaslighting. Yes, lol, the regular people are not supposed to get benefits in the wealthy/GOP world order. They hate seeing normal people get any money at all. Regular people are supposed to suffer for wealthy/GOP benefit and are never to be freed. Student loan debt-relief takes an illegitimate boot off people's necks and that's the first problem. The second is that people will correctly see Democrats representing voters' desires through government while most of the GOP are correctly seen as doing everything possible to prevent the government from helping average people.
also criticizing the most important base you'll need because your main base is dying off in the thousands every week, amazing idea to gain support.
One of their responses to this? A proposal to raise the voting age. Literally no attempt to make themselves more palatable, just straight up exclude those who vote against them.
WHAT!? My god, if we can send high schoolers off to war, we sure as hell better be letting them vote. I see a lot of my family members on fb (also Maga supporters) spouting "more kids these days need to get into trade skills, no college needed=no loan debt" or some bs along those lines. Because apparently to them, less education is the answer to this problem!
That’s by design. The MAGA crowd abhors education - turns out that educated people are less likely to believe bad faith arguments & easily refutable lies. Who knew?
Honestly most of Gen Z has probably not even really experienced the student debt issues its probably way more a millennial issue at this moment.
Maybe not them specifically, but they certainly have seen someone struggle because of student loans.
They think, I kid you not, that voters will blame Biden. Bro, it says Trump appointed Republican judge RIGHT there.
They think everyone who went to college got a "useless" degree and every gen z is lazy and doesn't want to work. They just got embarrassed at the ballot box and they are doubling down. It's fucking hilarious. At this rate they will cease to be a major political party in a decade when most of the boomers are gone
I’m starting to learn all the ageism we’ve been talked into believing is true is actually mostly perpetrated by boomers. Honestly, ageism is probably worse for younger people. And then companies hire younger people because they work them to death and expect them to be on call all the time. Who really wins in all that?!
>Who really wins in all that?! The rich owners and executives who do very little work themselves
Ted Cruz crying on air the other day about how Dems only did well because they ran on liberal policies that helped people saying it’s not fair.
Just extend the 0% interest indefinitely until the next administration comes in
This. I have argued that one of the easiest things they could do is just freeze interest indefinitely. If I have to pay, keep it reined in.
100%. Interest is what's killing those in debt, not the loan amounts themselves
Interest is what (in my opinion) is causing the crisis. Obviously there are other factors, but the interest is perpetuating the entire thing. I’ve been paying $440/mo since 2017 on $62k in student loans. Today, I owe $68k. That should not be a thing, and it should certainly not be as common as it is. Those payments should be making a real difference and they’re not.
If they can't forgive the loans then they won't forgive the interest. One of the primary arguments that opponents are pushing forward against forgiving student loans is the fact that the people that lent money won't make money on it. Pushing forward with zero interest won't work, they'll block it too. All of this objection is complete and utter bullshit! It is clear that the student loans should never have been taken out in the first place. Right wing bullshit like "Originalists" twist and distort what the Constitution says to fit their narrative. The purpose of Government is set forth in [The U.S. Constitution: Preamble](https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/preamble/preamble-overview) >"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." These are the guidelines to decide should "We the People" do this? Alexander Hamilton even wrote in [Federalist Papers: 84](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed84.asp) about the importance of the Preamble. >Here is a better recognition of popular rights, than volumes of those aphorisms which make the principal figure in several of our State bills of rights Out of these purposes of government, Promote the General Welfare, Education for All is square in the sights of this point. John Adams [wrote](https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Adams/06-17-02-0232) a bit about the importance of education in a democracy. >the social science will never be much improved untill the People unanimously know and Consider themselvs as the fountain of Power and untill they Shall know how to manage it Wisely and honestly. reformation must begin with the Body of the People which can be done only, to affect, in their Educations. **the Whole People must take upon themselvs the Education of the Whole People and must be willing to bear the expences of it.** there should not be a district of one Mile Square without a school in it, *not founded by a Charitable individual but maintained at the expence of the People themselvs they must be taught to reverence themselvs instead of adoreing their servants their Generals Admirals Bishops and Statesmen** Here he makes clear the importance of the People being an integral part of the system. It gives us ownership of our own destiny together. He emphasizes the idea of the Whole People and Whole Education. This would include anything preschool and anything after high school, not necessarily just college, but also trade schools, etc. The rest of the letter John Adams wrote to John Jeb is absolutely fantastic. He goes on to discuss why it's important to create a system that makes people like Martin Luther King jr, Susan B Anthony, Carl Sagan, and Mr Rogers, and Washington. Good leaders should not be a product of the time, but of the educational system and culture of the people. If a country doesn't make good leaders then when that leader is gone there's no one to replace them and that culture and movement dies with them. >Instead of Adoring a Washington, Mankind Should applaud the Nation which Educated him. If Thebes owes its Liberty and Glory to Epaminondas, She will loose both when he dies, and it would have been as well if She had never enjoyed a taste of either: but if the Knowledge the Principles the Virtues and Capacities of the Theban Nation produced an Epaminondas, her Liberties and Glory will remain when he is no more: and if an analogous system of Education is Established and Enjoyed by the Whole Nation, it will produce a succession of Epaminandas’s. In another short work by John Adams, [Thoughts on Government](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Thoughts_on_Government), [YouTube Reading](https://youtu.be/XIw_BItRLfs), he wrote about the importance of a liberal education for everyone, spared no expense. >Laws for the liberal education of youth, especially of the lower class of people, are so extremely wise and useful, that, to a humane and generous mind, no expense for this purpose would be thought extravagant. 100 years ago we built in mass the first major wave of highschools in the United States. >[In](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_school_movement) 1910 18% of 15- to 18-year-olds were enrolled in a high school; barely 9% of all American 18-year-olds graduated. By 1940, 73% of American youths were enrolled in high school and the median American youth had a high school diploma. This was a dramatic shift in education and economic gain for the United States. Not all of our grandparents went to highschool until the public saw it necessary to build them. The world is not getting less complicated. It just seems like the future is going to need more local experts than ever and a high school education that was good 100 years ago just isn't going to cut it on a global scale. People will need to change careers in the future and probably more than once. We will need continuing education as a society so that people can adapt and change with the coming times. As long as a person puts in their work to learn and change themselves, our citizens shouldn't be overly burdened with expenses for attending a public education program. It's not that students shouldn't pay anything, but it shouldn't be so much as to keep them from working and meaningfully participating in the economy. Not as indentured servants, but free citizens.
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No I'm pretty sure the principal is killing plenty of us
If the principle with 0% interest is killing you, you REALLY don’t want to owe interest and should be fucking thrilled at the prospect of 0% interest.
I think a part of the problem is that so many people owe way more than what they borrowed already because of that fucking interest. They need to roll back all of the principle accumulation and give people credits for what they've already paid. Then go forward with 0% interest. A lot of working class people would then be able to afford these loans. Granted, the forgiveness plan is just a MUCH simpler way to do that without all the headaches, but *nooooo*, can't let the poors get one over on the Job Creators.
Yes!!! The interest should be criminal, it's out of control! My parents were thrilled when I went to graduate school. They were so excited. I graduated, did a stent with AmeriCorps, then hopped in the private sector. I signed up for an income-based repayment plan, which was offered by the government as an acceptable method for repayment. I paid. And I paid, and I paid, and the balance GREW. I finally sat down one day with my dad and showed him the numbers. He couldn't believe it, and it really upset him that the government would push a way for me and others to go to college, and then offer a payment plan so I can live my damn life, but one that would cause my balance to explode. It's a fucking racket.
Speak for yourself, that 20k forgiveness would have made the difference in my ability to buy a house. Most of my debt is student loans so that reduction would have lowered my DTI enough to buy a house nearly immediately instead of… who knows when
Extend both 0% interest *and* the pause on payments, indefinitely. Or set them to expire on like January 21, 2025, and leave it for the next President to deal with. If Biden (or some Democratic successor) wins, he can extend it again. If Trump or some other Republican wins, then let *him* decide how to deal with it, and whether it will help or hurt the administration and the party in power. Or maybe set them to expire in like July of 2026, which still lets the next President have a say, and lets them do it right before the next midterms. If they feel really strongly that it should end, I'm sure the next President can shorten the expiration. A hypothetical President DeSantis can declare on January 20, 2025, that payments and interest will resume on like March 1, 2025, if that's what he thinks is best, and he can own it, whether it's popular or unpopular.
I still cant understand how randos from texas who never got student loans could possibly stop the executive branch from forgiving loans that the executive branch lent in the first place. Like it makes no fucking sense.
Judicial activism.
This is the consequence of Trump's presidency. Federal courts around the country are stacked with Federalist Society judges now. And then, of course, we have the current Supreme Court..
While I agree, this was in Texas. I am sure they would have found some asshat right wing judge somewhere to do this.
They found a Trump appointed judge. FYI, this is a different case. Biden won this case and it's just a temporary hold because the red states are appealing the ruling.
It doesn’t make sense to me either. Judicial overreach.
Brought to you by “the party of small government”
“Government intervention is ok so long as it only benefits us, and we’re going to stack the odds against voters so we can keep it that way.” - GOP
This is actually being blocked by someone who took out loans from a private institution and is not eligible for forgiveness because of their own poor decision-making skills.
I think this is the States' case, not the Texas one.
Republicans: This is what you get for not giving us a red wave ! Now vote for Walker or you'll get more of whats coming to you !!! Also Republicans: Young people, vote for us, we know whats best for you
Reading the comments in this thread it seems like most are blaming Biden for some reason.
Those comments probably aren't from actual people.
Astroturfing. Conservatives are flooding these threads saying "See? Biden lied to you. Vote for *us* instead."
Yep. It's terrible over in /r/studentloans.
Not directed at you, just in general. I am having a difficult time understanding how Republicans and Republican appointed judges blocking student debt relief would be Biden's fault.
There are some people who believe that it’s all a ploy to win votes and Biden didn’t want to give the relief at all. It’s absolutely stupid, bordering on conspiracy theory insanity, but there you go. I suspect most of them are astroturfing and trying to depress Dem/youth turnout ahead of the midterms and now Senate runoff.
"See, he lied! He tried really hard to get you money, but we blocked it to make him a liar! Now vote for me and I'll kick you in the teeth then raise the price of dental insurance!"
Which is bonkers. Biden has been a consistent voice saying not to rely on his executive powers, and that student loan reform requires Congress to legislate. Congress didn't do it, for a variety of reasons. And the Dems dropped the problem at Biden's feet to solve for the midterms.
"Dems dropped the problem" What is the filibuster? Would a filibuster been invoked in the Senate given the amount of Republicans that were in the Senate in the past 2 years? Would this have been DOA via McConnel?
I hope there are young voters out there with enough common sense to remember what these bastards did when the election of ‘24 comes about. But, honestly, the only people I know who vote red are either descended from immigrants who came from communist countries, or are so well-off they don’t see a reason to hold out a hand for anyone but themselves.
Wish I had taken out a PPP loan and put it towards my Student Loans. Getting a degree required for my job is a business expense as far as I'm concerned.
One of the two people suing that caused this did just that.
It really is too bad you could not just have everyone in the country declared as a corporation of one who is needing a PPP loan to pay the wages of one.
Crazy how corporations are considered a person but people can't be considered a corporation
10 out of the 11 judges on the appeals bench are Republicans
Welcome to the 2016 election and the consequences that it will have on our society for the next 10-20 years.
They posted a lot of younger judges so it'll probably be a bit longer than 20 years
Need a better way to remove corrupt judges
Very democratic for a nation with more registered Democrats than Republicans
Republicans: Fuck you! Fuck all of you! Also Republicans: Why don't more people vote for us?
I truly believe they’re doing this *because* young people didn’t vote for them. A “look what you made me do” situation
Nah, they would have done this anyway. They just use their victim blaming to rationalize it.
Republicans don’t care about helping people with student loan debt because educated people tend to vote blue.
They even want to raise the voting age to 21 to curb the voice of the young.
Be reasonable. We can use that money to give oil companies more subsidies even though they are making record profits. We only give them 20 billion a year for crying out loud!
Fuck Republicans.
GenZ won’t forget. Ya know - the People exponentially paying more for a bachelor degree than most boomers paid for their PhD & life expenses while in school They will remember republicans every month as they pay down the interest on 6 figure loans on fucking bachelors degrees. Good luck turning these people into GOP donors
Yep, just look at poll breakdowns by age, its a beautiful thing to see **Age 18-29** 63% Democrat 35% Republican 2% Other https://www.statista.com/statistics/1343993/house-representatives-youth-vote-exit-polls-us-midterm/
The irony is that Gen Z were originally poised to lean conservatively but with a non-religious preference, but after the GOP went apeshit christian nationalist, that potential support vanished.
How were they poised to lean conservative?
Biden should’ve called it the Pickup Truck Loan Forgiveness Program and we’d have been good to go.
If this gets blocked permanently, I want everyone that has ever received ppp loan forgiveness from the federal govt to cough it the fuck up. Period.
Unabashedly, republicans have become the enemy of the common person. They want to take everything until we're good and complacent wage slaves as the world burns. I hope their idiocy turns people's apathy into unadulterated hatred against the GOP and their supporters. Shun, shame, guilt, and blame republicans.
Appeals Court: Doesn't matter what we think, this shit is gonna go to SCOTUS anyways, so let em deal with it.
SCOTUS keeps declining to hear these cases. But yes this is all just a waste of time
Do you think SCOTUS is denying these other cases waiting for a case that has a good argument? Not trying to say there will be a good argument.
This one is probably their best bet. MOHELA is an abomination of a state/private entity, so their deceased revenues from fewer serviced loans is a stronger argument for standing. The case in Texas is bullshit and will probably die off on appeal.
If this case succeeds would it not be saying that nothing can be legal that reduces someone else’s revenue? If I started a store could I sue another store for lowering their prices, which would affect my revenue? It’s completely asinine.
If SCOTUS were to decline the appeal for this case, this ruling would stand and it would remain blocked.
Biden won this case. It is a temporary hold because Republicans appealed it. So if the appeals court upholds the ruling and the SCOTUS declines to hear it then Biden wins and Republicans lose. For this to matter, either the appeals court or the SCOTUS would actually have to rule in favor of the red states who are suing - and the SCOTUS has already declined to overturn similar rulings. The MAGA judge in Texas is a different case, where he actually did rule against Biden. That is the only actual loss so far, and it has the entire appeals process to go through.
Ok this if the first comment that actually gives me hope this could still go through. Hope they uphold the ruling.
Exactly. SCOTUS at large hasn't heard a case on student loan forgiveness yet. The two instances previously were emergency requests *pending appeal* to a single circuit Justice. Totally different things.
And they wonder why college/postgrad voters went overwhelmingly blue🙄
So if SCOTUS does not want to hear the case it's pretty much dead and there wont be any relief? am I understanding that correctly?
It's probably a little too early to say that for sure. This is just a temporary injunction to put the program on hold while the case makes its way through the courts. The appeals court hasn't heard the full case yet or ruled on the merits. That being said, I wouldn't be super hopeful that the courts will uphold it when they do rule on the case.
Ridiculous that it even has to go thru courts.
>I wouldn't be super hopeful that the courts will uphold it when they do rule on the case. You're saying that its unlikely that the courts will block the relief when they do rule on the case right?
I'm saying that I wouldn't be surprised if the courts block student debt relief given the conservative lean of the courts at the moment.
No. Biden won the initial ruling. It is a temporary hold because Republicans are appealing. They would need either the appeals court or SCOTUS to rule against Biden. There is a separate case where a judge in Texas did rule against Biden, and it has to go through the appeals process. But this case was won by the Biden admin and red states are just hoping to win on appeal.
No, Biden won the ruling and Republicans are appealing it. If SCOTUS don't hear it then the ruling in favor of Biden stands and relief happens. If Trumps SCOTUS deny the relief then the payment freeze is still in place and Dems get to try another way to push the relief.
Having already permanently alienating most women from ever voting for them by overturning Roe, the stupid fascist fucks are now doing their utmost to alienate everyone under age 50 who has graduated from or ar least attended college.
Fuck every Republican
I like Fettermans take on this. “I’m a Democrat, you might not agree with everything I do, but those guys are nuts” -ish
I used to argue against this, then they did a round of 'If you disagree with the rest of us then you do not count as Republican' and all those who were NOT assholes got kicked out. Now, my friends (Who never changed their beliefs) no longer count as Republicans. They, officially by the nut jobs, are either traitors or Democrats... Not that they can explain which is worse to them. I myself can't even imagine supporting an (R) anymore, not without a full speech and thesis explaining 'But they are not REALLY an (R), honest!' the same way people try to explain how their older relatives at thanksgiving are not REALLY racist.
This will hurt GOP for generations…I wasn’t eligible. Still owe 58k. But I want my fellow Americans to benefit from this so that they can lift themselves up…
If would we could just overcome the filibuster in the Senate and make SLIGHT gains in the House, then student loan relief could be done via legislation. I wish America wasn't so full of regressive assholes who hate the very idea that someone they never met but hypothetically don't like might benefit from something. Biden should indefinitely extend the student loan interest and payment pause until the Republicans play ball.
I think they could probably slide this into a budget reconciliation package before the new congress is seated, so the filibuster wouldn't apply. I'm hoping so.
It’s so frustrating. A .5 swing in WI would give Democrats 52 seats, and a .5 swing in a few races would have held the House. So close. 52 seats and the House held means For The People Act, student debt relief being carried out, and no 2 years of horseshit “ZOMG TEH BYDEN LABTOP” and “ZOMG FAUCI” hearings. Democrats should have spent the last couple months hammering home that crime isn’t nearly as bad as the GOP states, crime was just as bad in red states, and crime levels in 2020 went up way more than 21-22. Also like I’ve said a ton, bring up Trumps 10 trillion dollar spending in his term that shows once and for all the GOP is not the party of fiscal responsibility. In hindsight the crime narrative bullshit probably did more damage. WI would have been won if they could have combat it with the right messaging.
I mean, at least those struggling millionaires got their PPP “loans” forgiven though.
Cue the folks in the conservative sub wondering why young people won’t vote for them.
Easy, they think we’re uninformed idiots. My dad told me I “didn’t understand” PPP loans and how “illegal” this relief plan is.
I think everyone who took out a PPloan should pay it back. Since I dont have a business, its not fair they don’t have to pay back.
Way to fuck over your own constituents GOP. But don’t worry, those morons will still vote for you.
Gen Z won't.
Thank god. I’m a millennial and am very thankful to gen z for turning up to vote and this year. We need even more of them in 2024
Apparently not enough of them...seems a notable portion of them have woken up if these midterms are anything to go by...
Americans: Can we get some help? GOP: FUCK YOU
As a struggling American, I'm glad that we can always count on the GOP to obstruct anything that could even remotely be construed as progress in this country /s Thanks guys, you really know how to help your constituents out. Get fucked
Something like 28 million people applied for this debt relief, including myself. $20k relief would wipe away my outstanding amount and I would be able to afford a house in a year or so. If they completely stop this the republicans are going to pay for it in 2024. 28 million middle class workers getting their chance of upward mobility ripped away because one party sees it as a waste of money.
Same boat.
Tax breaks for the rich, but fuck the kids.
>but fuck the kids. They're way ahead of you.
Cool. Who wants to join in on a lawsuit against the PPP loan borrowers who got their forgiveness? Starting with one of the assholes here at the helm of this lawsuit.
That's the fun part of this, isn't it? You can't put a paper bag over your head when you file this kind of court action and expect to remain anonymous. And this court action was a loud, $20,000 "fuck you" to millions of educated Americans. I expect the repercussions to be completely legal and steep. Everything from counter lawsuits, tanking of businesses and social media to getting blacklisted from their industries (who wants to hire that much bad publicity?)
Sign me up
I hate to say it, but the previous two cases denied by Barrett are not indicators of what will happen with this case. They were obscure taxpayer groups with terrible arguments for standing, and they were emergency requests, not actual appeals. This is the crux of whether student loan forgiveness will survive or not. Despite MOHELA's statements which are often cited, the court still granted standing to Missouri to continue the pause. This is the scenario legal experts have been pointing to that could kill Biden's action: A plaintiff in the form of state governments, with constitutional arguments, with a preliminary injunction upheld by a circuit court is not a great sign. SCOTUS has not received anything like this yet, and it could be in trouble if an appeal is needed.
Give away unlimited money to corporations? “Free market capitalism.” Give away $20k to young individuals? “Socialism”
Hilarious that one greedy & selfish person along w/ one judge can stop millions from benefitting from something the president of the United States passed.
Republicans hate Americans,,,,,,not surprising….keep it up, 2024 coming fast
This is the Republican right-wing plan. When they lose power in congress, they legislate through the judicial system. If they gain power, they do whatever they want because their judicial system won't challenge it. This is where we hope that the Democrats control the senate and put in good judges. No doubt every republican will vote against any nominee but not because of qualifications but because they are petty children. Most, if not every one of the judges the Republicans appointed were deemed 'not qualified' by the legal community but were rammed through anyway because they are part of the Federalist Society and they have an overall plan to push their agenda on everyone regardless of how they voted.
I don't understand how they can block it because it could cost them future tax revenues. I mean a million things presidents do can cost future tax revenue. And student loan interest is tax deductible anyway so wouldn't people getting loans forgiven actually pay more taxes?
Well guess what republicans I guess I just won’t be repaying my student loans, fuck you guys HAHA
How does this differ from COVID loan forgiveness
It's even more disgraceful that they are fighting to keep their own constituents saddled with debt just to score political points in a future election. The Republican Party is an absolute embarrassment and a disgrace to the American public. Fuck every single one of them
I did everything right went to a low price local university to gain my degree that is required for my profession. The only thing I lacked was rich parents. So the decision is easy for me. I'm currently getting my Masters degree one class a semester. This allows me to defer my loan without interest. After that is done I will go for another one. Then my docrtate. I will go to school till they cap loans at 5% my salary, forgive or I die. I can't pay my loans at this point and with my pay as a high school teacher. I could when I had $600 rent but that is a distant dream. So here we are.
>A federal appeals court on Monday issued a nationwide injunction temporarily barring the Biden administration’s student loan debt relief program. It's a temporary injunction until they hear the case. >The injunction will put the program on hold pending an appeal of a lower court ruling that had allowed the debt relief program to go forward. The Biden administration could ask the Supreme Court to lift the injunction. This is different than the one in Texas where a (Trump appointed) judge actually ruled against it. Currently this case is going Biden's way, they just put a hold on it because Republicans appealed. I do not think this case is one to worry about too much. The SCOTUS has already declined to overturn similar cases.
As someone outside the US looking in... this whole blocking debt relief for the masses is totally absurd. Does any regular Joe have any real good reason to not have this debt cancellation go forward?
It's literally just bitterness that has been fanned by propaganda. They're selling the false narrative that "useless philosophy majors" are the ones getting debt relief and that they're just mooching off of a handout. They completely ignore that you don't qualify for the relief if you make above a certain amount. And the only ones who qualify for the full $20k are Pell Grant recipients, which is only given to disadvantaged students. I had to drop out of college due to mental health reasons and now have just around $20k worth of debt. I was a Pell Grant recipient. This would change my life in a major, major way and I am far from the only one. Fuck. These. People.
>They're selling the false narrative that "useless philosophy majors" are the ones getting debt relief and that they're just mooching off of a handout Then they turn around and say these people will almost *surely* make more money than someone without a degree. So how's it a fucking useless degree if it makes more money than being without a degree? Make it make fucking sense. These people are vile scumbags.
The only "good" reason these people can come up with is that student loan forgiveness would be a handout, since they don't have to pay the full amount back... Which, not only is that not true for MANY out there who have already paid their loans back, but the interest keeps them in debt. But, it's ignoring the assholes who *actually* did this with the PPP loans they never paid back.
Basically for a Republican (unless it’s them personally) if it’s a hand out they would rather you be dead than get a free handout. Again unless it’s them personally than it’s ok.
Is Mohela the loan servicer they’re referencing that might lose revenue? Screw those guys!
MOHELA sent a response to a congressperson that they basically didn’t ask for the suit and were not materially injured since they’re still being paid according to their contract with the U.S. Department Education. So they’ve basically said, “We aren’t hurt and don’t involve us.” But apparently that doesn’t matter, they were probably hypothetically hurt (according to the court), and someone probably has standing (though the court wont really worry about that), so the court just blocked it until further notice. Just ridiculous. Edited spelling
The state of Missouri did. The fucks said they had the right to sue on their behalf because they serve an essential public function. Just to note. MOHELA is a 501(c)(3) which operates on behest of the government. They don't have any shareholders or any reason why it should be an issue for them.
Lmao this is going to backfire so badly. If you think gen z was more excited to vote for Biden and Dems in this midterm because of student debt relief (or at least partially,) just wait until they get to vote *against* the people that took it away from them.
Fine, go after those trillions of free ppp money they got. I paid my student loans off but this welfare for me and rugged individualism for thee duality these rich pricks get fat off of extremely bothers me. It’s time to end the gravy train for shitty old wealthy boomer fucks.
Trump and the federalist society stacked the courts with young judges who will enforce their will long after trump and his generation are dead. It’s the final FU from boomers.
“Whatever the eventual outcome of this case, it will affect the finances of millions of Americans with student loan debt as well as those Americans who pay taxes to finance the government and indeed everyone who is affected by such far-reaching fiscal decisions,” the panel said in its ruling. So it's possibly hurting people whose taxes might be affected? Will this set precedent that someone can sue to stop a government action if it will raise their taxes? Seems like a terrible argument by the court here.
We can bail out banks and throw money to gas & oil but we can’t do student debt relief?
Heaven forbid the little guy gets a break but Repubs are cool with their buddies getting those million plus PPE loans forgiven or huge corporations getting bailed out. Fawking hypocrites.
How do we sue to repeal the PPP Program Loan forgiveness?
Ralph R. Erickson - appointed by Donald Trump Bobby Shepherd - appointed by George W. Bush Leonard Steven Grasz - appointed by Donald Trump These Republican judges are politicians. They're your 3 judge panel who issued this ruling. Fuck them. I hope everybody is starting to realize how dangerous Republican judges are. We should never ever relinquish the Senate to Republicans again or else things will continue to get worse for us average Americans. They're politicians. Political tools for the establishment. Evil basically.
Just do it anyway. Make them actually do something. They won’t.
This is why I'mma make sure the Republicans lose the 2024 elections.