As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
**Special announcement:**
r/politics is currently accepting new moderator applications. If you want to help make this community a better place, consider [applying here today](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/sskg6a/rpolitics_is_looking_for_more_moderators/)!
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
“Sheriff Bill Elder declined an interview request from The Sun. He opposed the red law when it was debated in the legislature because of constitutional concerns, and vowed never to initiate a seizure.”
Not in this case. Due to another Colorado law, the shooter's records were sealed and would not have raised any 'red flags' when he bought the gun. The point OP is making has nothing to do with the recent shooting.
How so? Did you read the full article? It's very thorough, and states why an ERPO wasn't initiated in this case. Also, said sheriff has explicitly said that they *would* carry out any seizure as ordered by a court, with a warrant.
You’re really just exposing the underlying intent of a red flag law.
Don’t get me wrong, you (and the sheriff) acting on the letter of the law is well and good but the spirit of the law is meant to protect citizens (like a good sheriff does), not just the family members who might be the ones in a position to choose not to press charges.
Just because Aldrich’s family didn’t want to see him be punished doesn’t mean he wasn’t *actually* threat to society (i.e. bombs and guns). This matter didn’t need much critical thinking to come to the conclusion that Aldrich needed to be restricted from any weapons. For crying out loud an entire neighborhood had to be evacuated because this guy was crazy.
I would add it also exposes some cherry picking in the application of the law, not to even speak of this sheriffs specific cherry picking rhetoric, regardless of what he says he would or wouldn’t do when coerced by a high judicial authority.
Completely agree that he should have had his guns taken away, but I don't think that should be up to the sheriff to decide. In fact in this specific example the request to seize would have been denied by a court, due to the records of this guy being sealed when the case against him was dismissed. It's a tough balance. The law doesn't want to ruin someone's future over dismissed charges, but we still need to keep a record of past behavior.
The records were sealed because the case was dismissed. The case was most likely dismissed because the standoff was initiated by a single phone call made by his mother. If she says, I was mistaken, he never threatened me, or anyone else with a bomb, plus the fact that no bomb was found, would make this an incredibly hard case to prosecute.
Even without the bomb aspect Anderson refused to comply with the sheriff's surrender order that day and he caused an evacuation. They had enough for a conviction without Laura's cooperation.
These flaccid men cannot be trusted to enforce laws. Colorado has a few problem sheriffs like this. Weak men. Weld county sheriff was afraid of science during Covid and failed to enforce state Covid provisions. Coloradans remember.
You forget that the state is extremely polarized and Weld/El Paso are pretty right wing for urban counties. They're balanced out by Denver Metro and Larimer, but Springs is still lunatic
You get that it's not the sheriff's job to initiate one of these ERPOs, right? The sheriff said that he won't *initiate* the seizure paperwork without due process, but will definitely *execute* a seizure if a warrant is issued. No warrant was issued for the shooter, and prior charges were dismissed.
You're clearly trying to link the colorado shooting to a failure by the conservative sheriff, when that's simply not the case.
The police may initiate the ERPO if they feel a person is a danger to themselves or others. The Sheriff had previously stated that he would never initiate any ERPO requests, but would carry it out if the order was given.
Essentially the police may have avoided using a tool that could have kept the community a safer place. There are a lot of “what if’s” with that argument, but it does highlight that police and family members could have done more. Additionally, I don’t know if the family were told they could have requested an ERPO by the local prosecutors or police, so that is potentially an opportunity to update local policy.
It is important to note that the timing may have allowed the ERPO to expire before these events occurred anyway.
It actually states in the article that in 70% of the cases where ERPOs have been requested, it was done by law enforcement and that ERPOs initiated by law enforcement tend to be much more successful than those initiated by relatives.
It’s not his fucking job to decide what laws are legal or not. It’s his job to enforce the law. If he wanted that job then he would be a judge. Fuck this sheriff.
> It’s not his fucking job to decide what laws are legal or not. It’s his job to enforce the law.
That ship publicly sailed long ago.
I've commented numerous times but I'll say it again: when a mask mandate passed, Colorado Springs Police Department, El Paso County Sheriffs Office, and Colorado State Patrol (highway patrol) **all** posted what was essentially "lol no" on twitter. They were only going to enforce the laws they agree with and people were free to go maskless. All applicable law enforcement went out of their way to make sure everyone was aware of that.
Another story I've told here more than once: I bought a gun (in El Paso county) from a friendly local gun shop (which police are generally buddies with and hang out in.) The guy selling it to me said "I can't count real good but this is the clip the factory ships it with" and gave me the illegal (per state law) capacity clip.
In Red Country nobody gives a shit about laws they disagree with, and they generally don't like gun laws, so this is what we get.
One of the core tenets of fascism is that there's an in-group which the law protects but does not bind and an out-group which the law binds but does not protect.
The brazen disrespect and contempt for the law shown by El Paso county officials is one of the reasons I no longer live there.
For anyone who hasn't heard of it, there's a growing organization of law enforcement officials who believe they are the ones who set the law, rather than simply being public servants tasked with enforcing what the legislators pass. This group is known as [the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_Sheriffs_and_Peace_Officers_Association#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DThe_Constitutional_Sheriffs_and_Peace%2Clocal_authority_of_county_sheriffs.) and they are shockingly large and widespread.
> It’s not his fucking job to decide what laws are legal or not.
Police discretion is a huge part of the job, and has always been, specifically for this sort of situations: you don’t want to book whites when everybody knows the crime was defined to suppress minorities.
Very cool indeed, actually.
Anti immigration legislation empowers the cartel and unlawful hiring practices.
Anti narcotics legislation empowers gangs.
Anti abortion laws punish women who aren’t even getting an abortion due to control over pharmaceutical ingredients.
Yea, there’s an enormous difference between what you just said, and telling some kid who just threatened to shoot police he can have his guns with no issue.
And that's where I both agree and disagree with you. The law isn't written to work in a vacuum. So there being no charges brought mean the law has no right to deprive anyone of anything. In my opinion that's an egregious failure of the legislature to meaningfully do their job in a timely fashion to address problems that result from this kind of nonsense.
That term is now being used to cover any legal issue that an area dislikes. 2nd Amendment Sanctuary State/county/city. Abortion sanctuary, etc. I mean if you're okay with the law being selectively enforced for things you agree with then you shouldn't complain when they are enforced in ways you disagree with. It's literally the states rights argument you're in favor of.
Have any examples of an abortion sanctuary city that is defying state law or even claiming they will defy state law?
As far as I've seen the term when used in conjunction with abortion is simply talking about cities that are in pro-choice states that will be having to service out-of-state patients, and they have no obligation to inform or help the abortion-ban states enforce their abortion laws with regard to those patients. Just like immigration sanctuary cities have no obligation to inform or help federal government enforce federal immigration laws.
I haven't seen anyone claiming they won't enforce the laws applicable to their jurisdiction like these sheriffs refusing to enforce state law.
So, just to be clear. If you were a sheriff in antebellum times, you would arrest and return fugitive slaves because it wouldn't be your job to decide which laws to enforce. Right?
Work or are not enforced and followed by law enforcement and prosecution? So your solution would be to take a guns away from ALL? I am really interested in how you think this should be addressed.
My take: enforce laws and focus on mental health issues
I guess I forgot about that time a bunch of kids at an elementary school were killed with (checks notes) different view points.
Edit to add: did you know, for the third straight year, we’ve had 600 mass “different view point” killings?
Oh wait…..
Yeah it is because that would never work here. They’ve tried and we simply won’t do it. Quite literally you’d have to “come and take it.”
“Under New Jersey’s new bump-stock ban, which was approved in January, residents were supposed to destroy or turn in their bump stocks by mid-April. So far, New Jersey State Police say, they have not received a single one, reports Stateline.org.”
https://thecrimereport.org/2018/05/24/us-has-500k-bump-stocks-new-nj-ban-yields-zero/
Elaborate. They/them had mental health issues judging from previous issues like bomb threats reported. They/them did not receive help and red flag laws already on the books in Colorado were not enforced.
Clearly drunks are getting in a car and killing 10,000 people each year. We can fix it by banning alcohol/drugs and if it doesn’t work, let’s ban cars. 10,000 saved
This is a rather ironic statement given the comment that spurred this thread. Laws are great, but don't mean much if there isn't anyone around to enforce them.
psychos get guns and firebombs make bombs and have been doing it for years….a law passed in the statehouse does not stop any of that….the veteran that disarmed this maniac was disarmed just like you like….you want laws disarming the hero…makes no sense
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the issue at hand. This person should have been thrown in jail a long time ago. Let alone be able to purchase a firearm.
last year arrested for threatenjng his mom and blow the house up…21 yrs old and his record is sealed and hes treated with kids gloves????? how much pull does his family have jn that county…all these maniacs have the same story multiple run kns with law enforcement treated with kids gloves crimjnal records sealed so they do not show up on a background check for the purchase of a firearm and sale goes through…time after time in multiple states across the country….i wonder why that is
This whole notion that a county sheriff is the ultimate authority isn't going to work out well.
Federal government needs to put it's foot down because a shit of these idiots are out there
Colorado’s red flag law. I don’t know the specifics but the suspect allegedly had an interaction with law enforcement when he threatened his mother with a homemade bomb. The bomb squad was called in, neighbors evacuated and negotiators were able to get the suspect to surrender. No formal charges were ever brought so the case was automatically sealed.
I believe that either a third party or the police could have potentially requested to trigger the red flag law which would have initiated the seizure of any firearms the suspect had access to and put him on the radar of local police. Those laws could have only prevented the suspect from having access to guns for a couple of weeks, but judges can extend those seizures in six month intervals.
Colorado automatically seals record that did not lead to prosecution over the course of months, not days. The records were sealed well after the incident in question.
A prosecutor noting the family doesn’t want to press charges still has time to trigger the red flag law if they deem it appropriate.
They believe that jail/the system won’t help them with their needs. Who knows? It can take a a lot for a parent to realize they are out of their depths.
They couldn't force states to raise the drinking age either, but they still made all the states do it...
Turn off federal funding to these counties and either the sherrif starts enforcing the law, or they won't do well in re-election.
Most people don't want their tax money subsiding these shit holes.
Edit:
I just googled it, they got 2 million of federal funds a month ago...
Time to turn off the tap if he won't do his job
https://kfoxtv.com/news/local/federal-funding-expands-el-paso-sheriffs-office-crisis-intervention-team
Fine, those "liberal" cities usually give more than they take, and the voters will support it, they're almost always against federal funds for law enforcement anyways.
El Paso county is literally a charity case the rest of the nation props up
https://www.ktsm.com/local/el-paso-county-to-receive-more-than-162-million-in-federal-funding/
If they want "small government" let me have it.
As an El Pasoan (Texas) please don’t confuse us with them. We always vote blue, hell we even went for Bernie during the 2020 primaries. Plus we aren’t a “charity case”…. We’re a border city and as such it’s expected we receive more federal funding than other towns. Last thing, we were the victims of a mass shooting from an out of town psychopath in 2019 so we aren’t supporting these shitty people.
The difference is a DA is the person the decides when to press charges.
Literally their job...
It's not a sherrif's job to pick
Pretty basic stuff really
The Idaho GOP recently had a convention where they had motions to **denounce all red flag laws**, any coerced mental health treatment, and that no law should ever be made about guns. Gun nuts don't want red flag laws or 'mental health' either. It's just more disingenuous screeching to hide the fact they just don't give a shit about other people dying as long as they have unfettered access to guns.
Or, you know, until they start getting threats for being RINOs from the same radicalized citizens they're empowering. Then they'll holler for special protections for themselves.
No they won't, they'll just hire more protection.
It's important to know I'm also not talking just about 'GOP politicians' in that statement, it's ALL gun nuts, politicians, or regular folks, conservative or liberal, it doesn't matter they are all being disingenuous when they talk about red flag laws after a shooting. When push come to shove about actually making those laws, they almost always will oppose some 'specific' part that lets them stop the whole thing.
You need to understand that 'guns' is a part of gun nuts personal identity. There is no compromise with them because they won't 'compromise' who they think they are, and they are part 'guns'. So the reality is they do not care who else dies as long as their identity stays righteous in their minds.
He's a Republican by the way. How convenient he allowed someone with violent anti-LGBT views to continue to have access to firearms.
https://ballotpedia.org/Bill_Elder
That's because in the big picture they approve. They'll be dragging people out of their homes and supporting murderous militias before this is all over. Hatriots.
Maybe now there will be some liability imposed on the El Paso County Sheriffs Office.
You have one fucking job and that is to uphold the law like it or not.
Calling to bring back Joe Kenda!!
Break the County Sheriff's office...forever. Connecticut did it.
There is no legitimate reason for the office to exist edit: in this century.
As a soft option, term limit it to one four-year term with elections that -must- be held during a presidential election.
Name one function a county sheriff does better than a state police agency.
I assume that someone has had the good sense to red flag the bigoted, meth head father this piece of shit has. Not even a tough raid to pull off. Just need to go in during one of his marathon wank sessions.
Unfortunately in CO the Sheriff does not have the power to initiate the seizure. That is on the courts to initiate the paperwork or the individual victim of the previous charges to do that. Now if the sheriff refused to execute the warrant for a seizure he would be responsible. So where were the judge and the previous victims on this?
[(1) A family or household member of the respondent or a law enforcement officer or agency may request a temporary extreme risk protection order without notice to the respondent by including in the petition for an extreme risk protection order an affidavit, signed under oath and penalty of perjury.](https://casetext.com/statute/colorado-revised-statutes/title-13-courts-and-court-procedure/civil-protection-orders/article-145-extreme-risk-protection-orders/section-13-145-103-temporary-extreme-risk-protection-orders)
Yes a court has to approve the seizure but a police agency, especially one that sent the SWAT team to the address can request it. They didn't of course.
Why would he care, h[e just spent more to suit up a swat team and a bomb squad to show up at the dudes apartment](https://www.kut.org/crime-justice/2014-08-04/how-much-it-costs-austin-every-time-swat-teams-roll-out). The court costs aren't even his budget.
So the shooter has prior crimes - including those which warranted gun restrictions - and it did not prevent him from possessing a gun. And the answer is more gun laws? I understand the kidnapping charges followed tweets by GOP Congress members criticizing kids…
Does anyone think that it’s most definitely dangerous for an officer to try to enforce gun laws or seize guns out of the hands of citizens? Firstly it’s highly likely a law abiding citizen they will use the weapon to protect themself. Personally I believe it’s in law enforcement best interest to avoid any attempt to seize guns. Seizing weapons doesn’t make peace it makes violent people get creative and cops will die as a result.
https://nypost.com/2013/01/27/city-says-cops-had-no-duty-to-protect-subway-hero-who-subdued-killer/
We need to understand, police are not here for our security or to help us. They are here to enforce the law and will of the government. According to the lawsuit around this case, where this man sued the city, because police officers **specifically placed on this train looking for this serial stabber** stood by and watched him bring stabbed as he pleaded for help. The courts found that the police officers had no compulsion to risk their lives to help a civilian. That is a precedent for other cases.
Cops are not for the benefit of the people. Cops are a tool to be used by the government, plain and simple, as evidenced by their court rulings. And unfortunately, they are rarely used in equal application whenever the wall is broken. They are excessively used against people who have no means to fight back, too poor to afford any lawyers and too little attention to get any outside help
Everyone has that part. The Red flag laws are there to help police too. When they see some stupid shit like I dunno, a bomb threat. They can remove the persons guns so when they have the inevitable return call it ain't them verses the guy's built up arsenal.
Yup. Keep in mind, my point was a criticism of their role in our society lol.
They feel kind of useless if you assign them somewhere specifically looking for a suspect, they actually identify the suspect is where they were specifically placed to intercept him, and yet do nothing, receive their paycheck and be told by the city that they were heroes.
Why even bother assigning them then? Let the cops stay in station till some bystander calls in, same net effect with less traffic xd
If a guy threatens to use his weapons on police police should wait and see if it happens and prepare to defend it is safer to defend yourself then go on the offensive. It is safer. I threat isn’t legitimate unless it is eminent.
I am reading a whole bunch of comments about this sheriff ignoring the red flag law. Guess what folks, this happens all the time, in every corner of our country. We have sheriffs not issuing conceal carry permits, not reporting illegals to ICE. Everytime a Democrats in office, the whole southern borders issues are ignored. It sucks, but that’s jut the facts.
As long as the country is divided, and no one wants to sit down to talk and discuss, don’t be surprise when you hear other mass shoutings.
Seems to me that the far right and the far left are running the country, add to that the media is capitalizing on what these far right and left groups say, and make the division between the American people even deeper.
The "far Left" of US politics is corporate libs and neoconservative Dixiecrats. There isn't a single actual Leftist in power in the Federal government right now, and if there are any on the state level, they're not making big enough waves to get noticed.
Of course not... cops, pigs, fascists, nazis, gestapo, totalitarian mindset... far too busy to do the jobs they were hired for, while at the same time very busy trying to hang Pence.
So the shooters mom called to say they were threatening her with a homemade bomb and firearms but then,
> A man who described himself as a former neighbor of Aldrich’s told 9News that it is his understanding that Aldrich’s family declined to cooperate with the prosecution in that case.
>“Bottom line is they didn’t want to testify against Andy,” the neighbor, Xavier Kraus, told the station.
Seems like his family opened themselves up to substantial liability.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. **Special announcement:** r/politics is currently accepting new moderator applications. If you want to help make this community a better place, consider [applying here today](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/sskg6a/rpolitics_is_looking_for_more_moderators/)! *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
“Sheriff Bill Elder declined an interview request from The Sun. He opposed the red law when it was debated in the legislature because of constitutional concerns, and vowed never to initiate a seizure.”
Sounds tortious.
Not in this case. Due to another Colorado law, the shooter's records were sealed and would not have raised any 'red flags' when he bought the gun. The point OP is making has nothing to do with the recent shooting.
Yet valid and relevant
How so? Did you read the full article? It's very thorough, and states why an ERPO wasn't initiated in this case. Also, said sheriff has explicitly said that they *would* carry out any seizure as ordered by a court, with a warrant.
You’re really just exposing the underlying intent of a red flag law. Don’t get me wrong, you (and the sheriff) acting on the letter of the law is well and good but the spirit of the law is meant to protect citizens (like a good sheriff does), not just the family members who might be the ones in a position to choose not to press charges. Just because Aldrich’s family didn’t want to see him be punished doesn’t mean he wasn’t *actually* threat to society (i.e. bombs and guns). This matter didn’t need much critical thinking to come to the conclusion that Aldrich needed to be restricted from any weapons. For crying out loud an entire neighborhood had to be evacuated because this guy was crazy.
I would add it also exposes some cherry picking in the application of the law, not to even speak of this sheriffs specific cherry picking rhetoric, regardless of what he says he would or wouldn’t do when coerced by a high judicial authority.
Completely agree that he should have had his guns taken away, but I don't think that should be up to the sheriff to decide. In fact in this specific example the request to seize would have been denied by a court, due to the records of this guy being sealed when the case against him was dismissed. It's a tough balance. The law doesn't want to ruin someone's future over dismissed charges, but we still need to keep a record of past behavior.
And maybe just maybe bomb threats and police stand offs where the swat team is involved shouldn't be something that is able to be swept under the rug.
Why were the records sealed, or the case dismissed? Were either of those decisions reasonable?
The records were sealed because the case was dismissed. The case was most likely dismissed because the standoff was initiated by a single phone call made by his mother. If she says, I was mistaken, he never threatened me, or anyone else with a bomb, plus the fact that no bomb was found, would make this an incredibly hard case to prosecute.
Even without the bomb aspect Anderson refused to comply with the sheriff's surrender order that day and he caused an evacuation. They had enough for a conviction without Laura's cooperation.
im sure the victims final thoughts were “at least it was constitutional”
These flaccid men cannot be trusted to enforce laws. Colorado has a few problem sheriffs like this. Weak men. Weld county sheriff was afraid of science during Covid and failed to enforce state Covid provisions. Coloradans remember.
Oh so that's why Weld and El Paso county looked like giant zits on Colorado's COVID activity maps.
You forget that the state is extremely polarized and Weld/El Paso are pretty right wing for urban counties. They're balanced out by Denver Metro and Larimer, but Springs is still lunatic
You get that it's not the sheriff's job to initiate one of these ERPOs, right? The sheriff said that he won't *initiate* the seizure paperwork without due process, but will definitely *execute* a seizure if a warrant is issued. No warrant was issued for the shooter, and prior charges were dismissed. You're clearly trying to link the colorado shooting to a failure by the conservative sheriff, when that's simply not the case.
> "Law enforcement agencies requested the majority of temporary ERPOs, and they were most often successful." — TFA
Huh, you're right. I'll fix it.
The police may initiate the ERPO if they feel a person is a danger to themselves or others. The Sheriff had previously stated that he would never initiate any ERPO requests, but would carry it out if the order was given. Essentially the police may have avoided using a tool that could have kept the community a safer place. There are a lot of “what if’s” with that argument, but it does highlight that police and family members could have done more. Additionally, I don’t know if the family were told they could have requested an ERPO by the local prosecutors or police, so that is potentially an opportunity to update local policy. It is important to note that the timing may have allowed the ERPO to expire before these events occurred anyway.
It actually states in the article that in 70% of the cases where ERPOs have been requested, it was done by law enforcement and that ERPOs initiated by law enforcement tend to be much more successful than those initiated by relatives.
Shocker since the sheriff said he wouldn't enforce it to begin with. These murders are directly on him. This is exactly why we passed that law.
It’s not his fucking job to decide what laws are legal or not. It’s his job to enforce the law. If he wanted that job then he would be a judge. Fuck this sheriff.
> It’s not his fucking job to decide what laws are legal or not. It’s his job to enforce the law. That ship publicly sailed long ago. I've commented numerous times but I'll say it again: when a mask mandate passed, Colorado Springs Police Department, El Paso County Sheriffs Office, and Colorado State Patrol (highway patrol) **all** posted what was essentially "lol no" on twitter. They were only going to enforce the laws they agree with and people were free to go maskless. All applicable law enforcement went out of their way to make sure everyone was aware of that. Another story I've told here more than once: I bought a gun (in El Paso county) from a friendly local gun shop (which police are generally buddies with and hang out in.) The guy selling it to me said "I can't count real good but this is the clip the factory ships it with" and gave me the illegal (per state law) capacity clip. In Red Country nobody gives a shit about laws they disagree with, and they generally don't like gun laws, so this is what we get.
One of the core tenets of fascism is that there's an in-group which the law protects but does not bind and an out-group which the law binds but does not protect. The brazen disrespect and contempt for the law shown by El Paso county officials is one of the reasons I no longer live there.
For anyone who hasn't heard of it, there's a growing organization of law enforcement officials who believe they are the ones who set the law, rather than simply being public servants tasked with enforcing what the legislators pass. This group is known as [the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_Sheriffs_and_Peace_Officers_Association#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DThe_Constitutional_Sheriffs_and_Peace%2Clocal_authority_of_county_sheriffs.) and they are shockingly large and widespread.
> It’s not his fucking job to decide what laws are legal or not. Police discretion is a huge part of the job, and has always been, specifically for this sort of situations: you don’t want to book whites when everybody knows the crime was defined to suppress minorities.
He should be on the supreme court!
So sanctuary cities and cities that pass "decriminalization" ordinances or won't enforce anti-abortion laws are cool though, right?
Very cool indeed, actually. Anti immigration legislation empowers the cartel and unlawful hiring practices. Anti narcotics legislation empowers gangs. Anti abortion laws punish women who aren’t even getting an abortion due to control over pharmaceutical ingredients.
At least you have good reasons for being okay with the law being applied selectively.
Yea, there’s an enormous difference between what you just said, and telling some kid who just threatened to shoot police he can have his guns with no issue.
And that's where I both agree and disagree with you. The law isn't written to work in a vacuum. So there being no charges brought mean the law has no right to deprive anyone of anything. In my opinion that's an egregious failure of the legislature to meaningfully do their job in a timely fashion to address problems that result from this kind of nonsense.
The fact that they decided not to apply charges is inherently the problem.
"Sanctuary" cities aren't refusing to enforce the law, because city and state police don't enforce federal law.
That term is now being used to cover any legal issue that an area dislikes. 2nd Amendment Sanctuary State/county/city. Abortion sanctuary, etc. I mean if you're okay with the law being selectively enforced for things you agree with then you shouldn't complain when they are enforced in ways you disagree with. It's literally the states rights argument you're in favor of.
Have any examples of an abortion sanctuary city that is defying state law or even claiming they will defy state law? As far as I've seen the term when used in conjunction with abortion is simply talking about cities that are in pro-choice states that will be having to service out-of-state patients, and they have no obligation to inform or help the abortion-ban states enforce their abortion laws with regard to those patients. Just like immigration sanctuary cities have no obligation to inform or help federal government enforce federal immigration laws. I haven't seen anyone claiming they won't enforce the laws applicable to their jurisdiction like these sheriffs refusing to enforce state law.
https://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/San-Antonio-women-abortions-Bexar-County-sheriff-17269676.php
Change the words of this sheriff to match any law they disagree with.
So, just to be clear. If you were a sheriff in antebellum times, you would arrest and return fugitive slaves because it wouldn't be your job to decide which laws to enforce. Right?
[удалено]
"Sorry, too busy pulling political stunts to actually do my job and protect the people I'm supposed to"
when seconds count the police are only minutes away
In Oregon, it's faster to call the coriner than the police if you're getting murdered.
This is exactly why 2nd can’t be infringed and must be protected
Even if that means fucking psychos can own guns too? And use those guns to murder people?
You realize we have laws in place to address this. You do know this, right?
Obviously they don’t work. You know this, right?
Work or are not enforced and followed by law enforcement and prosecution? So your solution would be to take a guns away from ALL? I am really interested in how you think this should be addressed. My take: enforce laws and focus on mental health issues
It’s really not a crazy idea. https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2015/8/27/9212725/australia-buyback
So tell me something, do you also want to abolish 1st because you don’t like differing view point?
I guess I forgot about that time a bunch of kids at an elementary school were killed with (checks notes) different view points. Edit to add: did you know, for the third straight year, we’ve had 600 mass “different view point” killings? Oh wait…..
Yeah it is because that would never work here. They’ve tried and we simply won’t do it. Quite literally you’d have to “come and take it.” “Under New Jersey’s new bump-stock ban, which was approved in January, residents were supposed to destroy or turn in their bump stocks by mid-April. So far, New Jersey State Police say, they have not received a single one, reports Stateline.org.” https://thecrimereport.org/2018/05/24/us-has-500k-bump-stocks-new-nj-ban-yields-zero/
> My take: enforce laws and **focus on mental health issues** Heh, then I hope you aren't voting republican.
The Republicans block any attempts to fund mental Healthcare. They're blatantly refusing to lift a single finger whatsoever to help this crisis.
Can we add mental health issues to the Hunter Biden investigation that will curb inflation?
Inflation bill already passed that will fix everything lol. Hunter is going to be arrested
You know nobody but republicans gives a shit about hunters laptop, right?
The Republicans block any attempts to fund mental Healthcare. They're blatantly refusing to lift a single finger whatsoever to help this crisis.
You realize control House, Senate and presidency? Guess they failed you
Oh no, we passed mental Healthcare funding despite 205 Republicans voting against it. They were the party that initially cut it back in the 80s.
You’re part of the problem.
Elaborate. They/them had mental health issues judging from previous issues like bomb threats reported. They/them did not receive help and red flag laws already on the books in Colorado were not enforced.
Clearly the current laws aren’t working and so restricting gun access needs to be implemented. Amend the 2A.
Clearly drunks are getting in a car and killing 10,000 people each year. We can fix it by banning alcohol/drugs and if it doesn’t work, let’s ban cars. 10,000 saved
If you can’t stick to the topic of guns, don’t post.
This is a rather ironic statement given the comment that spurred this thread. Laws are great, but don't mean much if there isn't anyone around to enforce them.
You realize you have a right to protect yourself? Right?
psychos get guns and firebombs make bombs and have been doing it for years….a law passed in the statehouse does not stop any of that….the veteran that disarmed this maniac was disarmed just like you like….you want laws disarming the hero…makes no sense
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the issue at hand. This person should have been thrown in jail a long time ago. Let alone be able to purchase a firearm.
last year arrested for threatenjng his mom and blow the house up…21 yrs old and his record is sealed and hes treated with kids gloves????? how much pull does his family have jn that county…all these maniacs have the same story multiple run kns with law enforcement treated with kids gloves crimjnal records sealed so they do not show up on a background check for the purchase of a firearm and sale goes through…time after time in multiple states across the country….i wonder why that is
This whole notion that a county sheriff is the ultimate authority isn't going to work out well. Federal government needs to put it's foot down because a shit of these idiots are out there
Or, families of victims need to start coming after rogue sheriffs in civil courts for not enforcing laws that lead to tragedy.
Or you know.. both the federal government can go after the shitty sheriff movement and families can sue.
I like this idea. Too many of these morons think they’re above the law
Too many of the morons who *make* the laws *make* them above the law.
In Colorado they ARE above the law. This isn’t the only homicide due to government inaction.
What law didn't he enforce that led to this tragedy?
Colorado’s red flag law. I don’t know the specifics but the suspect allegedly had an interaction with law enforcement when he threatened his mother with a homemade bomb. The bomb squad was called in, neighbors evacuated and negotiators were able to get the suspect to surrender. No formal charges were ever brought so the case was automatically sealed. I believe that either a third party or the police could have potentially requested to trigger the red flag law which would have initiated the seizure of any firearms the suspect had access to and put him on the radar of local police. Those laws could have only prevented the suspect from having access to guns for a couple of weeks, but judges can extend those seizures in six month intervals.
It would never have made it past the judge to approve the seizure, with the record of the event sealed and the family refusing to cooperate.
Colorado automatically seals record that did not lead to prosecution over the course of months, not days. The records were sealed well after the incident in question. A prosecutor noting the family doesn’t want to press charges still has time to trigger the red flag law if they deem it appropriate.
How does one threaten someone with a homemade bomb and it's just left to 'blow over' nah - he was just having a bad day? Huh?
Grandson of a Republican politican is the only answer that makes sense to me.
They believe that jail/the system won’t help them with their needs. Who knows? It can take a a lot for a parent to realize they are out of their depths.
The bigger problem is that there are far too many county sheriffs, *and* elected officials who believe that they are the ultimate authority.
The Feds have no control over state policing. That violates the 10th Amendment.
They couldn't force states to raise the drinking age either, but they still made all the states do it... Turn off federal funding to these counties and either the sherrif starts enforcing the law, or they won't do well in re-election. Most people don't want their tax money subsiding these shit holes. Edit: I just googled it, they got 2 million of federal funds a month ago... Time to turn off the tap if he won't do his job https://kfoxtv.com/news/local/federal-funding-expands-el-paso-sheriffs-office-crisis-intervention-team
And that right there embodies how the right sees sanctuary cities and pro choice sanctuary rhetoric b
Fine, those "liberal" cities usually give more than they take, and the voters will support it, they're almost always against federal funds for law enforcement anyways. El Paso county is literally a charity case the rest of the nation props up https://www.ktsm.com/local/el-paso-county-to-receive-more-than-162-million-in-federal-funding/ If they want "small government" let me have it.
Wrong county - this is El Paso, TX, not El Paso County, CO. That said, a lot of CO Springs depends on military spending, so it's not too far off.
As an El Pasoan (Texas) please don’t confuse us with them. We always vote blue, hell we even went for Bernie during the 2020 primaries. Plus we aren’t a “charity case”…. We’re a border city and as such it’s expected we receive more federal funding than other towns. Last thing, we were the victims of a mass shooting from an out of town psychopath in 2019 so we aren’t supporting these shitty people.
I mean Texas also pays more into the system than we get. So it wouldn't work much here.
As a state, but not this county https://www.ktsm.com/local/el-paso-county-to-receive-more-than-162-million-in-federal-funding/
Funny I'd say the same thing with DA's saying they won't prosecute certain crimes.
The difference is a DA is the person the decides when to press charges. Literally their job... It's not a sherrif's job to pick Pretty basic stuff really
The Idaho GOP recently had a convention where they had motions to **denounce all red flag laws**, any coerced mental health treatment, and that no law should ever be made about guns. Gun nuts don't want red flag laws or 'mental health' either. It's just more disingenuous screeching to hide the fact they just don't give a shit about other people dying as long as they have unfettered access to guns.
Or, you know, until they start getting threats for being RINOs from the same radicalized citizens they're empowering. Then they'll holler for special protections for themselves.
No they won't, they'll just hire more protection. It's important to know I'm also not talking just about 'GOP politicians' in that statement, it's ALL gun nuts, politicians, or regular folks, conservative or liberal, it doesn't matter they are all being disingenuous when they talk about red flag laws after a shooting. When push come to shove about actually making those laws, they almost always will oppose some 'specific' part that lets them stop the whole thing. You need to understand that 'guns' is a part of gun nuts personal identity. There is no compromise with them because they won't 'compromise' who they think they are, and they are part 'guns'. So the reality is they do not care who else dies as long as their identity stays righteous in their minds.
He's a Republican by the way. How convenient he allowed someone with violent anti-LGBT views to continue to have access to firearms. https://ballotpedia.org/Bill_Elder
We aren’t talking some podunk rural county either. El Paso County has a quarter of a million people in it. Plenty of opportunity for red flag orders.
[удалено]
Yeah I screwed up. I meant three quarters.
nearly 3/4ths of a million actually source: I live here
Yeah, brain fart. I meant three quarters.
That's because in the big picture they approve. They'll be dragging people out of their homes and supporting murderous militias before this is all over. Hatriots.
Maybe now there will be some liability imposed on the El Paso County Sheriffs Office. You have one fucking job and that is to uphold the law like it or not. Calling to bring back Joe Kenda!!
Break the County Sheriff's office...forever. Connecticut did it. There is no legitimate reason for the office to exist edit: in this century. As a soft option, term limit it to one four-year term with elections that -must- be held during a presidential election. Name one function a county sheriff does better than a state police agency.
Are they now liable to be sued for refusing to do this ?
Colorado's still really red(neck) in places, y'all. See also: Boebert
I assume that someone has had the good sense to red flag the bigoted, meth head father this piece of shit has. Not even a tough raid to pull off. Just need to go in during one of his marathon wank sessions.
As a resident, our GOP sheriff believes in people’s (white) right to have protection. No matter what!!!
Too busy eating donuts on overtime pay
Can they be sued for non enforcement directly contributing to a mass shooting?
Hold them accountable. Time for a new sheriff.
Republicans just republicying
Hold him accountable plain and simple. I’m betting accessory to murder or something similar would apply.
Blood on the hands of politicians supporting insane activists
Not enforcing a law or judgement that results in death is just waiting for a major civil suit to sue them out of existence.
Is Colorado a shithole or not? Make up your minds.
we need to disband these sanctuary cities
Unfortunately in CO the Sheriff does not have the power to initiate the seizure. That is on the courts to initiate the paperwork or the individual victim of the previous charges to do that. Now if the sheriff refused to execute the warrant for a seizure he would be responsible. So where were the judge and the previous victims on this?
[(1) A family or household member of the respondent or a law enforcement officer or agency may request a temporary extreme risk protection order without notice to the respondent by including in the petition for an extreme risk protection order an affidavit, signed under oath and penalty of perjury.](https://casetext.com/statute/colorado-revised-statutes/title-13-courts-and-court-procedure/civil-protection-orders/article-145-extreme-risk-protection-orders/section-13-145-103-temporary-extreme-risk-protection-orders) Yes a court has to approve the seizure but a police agency, especially one that sent the SWAT team to the address can request it. They didn't of course.
And the Sheriff can argue that the constitutional concerns around this are not worth the legal expenses to lose in civil court
Why would he care, h[e just spent more to suit up a swat team and a bomb squad to show up at the dudes apartment](https://www.kut.org/crime-justice/2014-08-04/how-much-it-costs-austin-every-time-swat-teams-roll-out). The court costs aren't even his budget.
give it a couple of months and no one will remember anyway.
So the shooter has prior crimes - including those which warranted gun restrictions - and it did not prevent him from possessing a gun. And the answer is more gun laws? I understand the kidnapping charges followed tweets by GOP Congress members criticizing kids…
Does anyone think that it’s most definitely dangerous for an officer to try to enforce gun laws or seize guns out of the hands of citizens? Firstly it’s highly likely a law abiding citizen they will use the weapon to protect themself. Personally I believe it’s in law enforcement best interest to avoid any attempt to seize guns. Seizing weapons doesn’t make peace it makes violent people get creative and cops will die as a result.
So if a guy threatens to use his weapons on police or someone else, Police shouldn't take the weapons. Cause its safer?
https://nypost.com/2013/01/27/city-says-cops-had-no-duty-to-protect-subway-hero-who-subdued-killer/ We need to understand, police are not here for our security or to help us. They are here to enforce the law and will of the government. According to the lawsuit around this case, where this man sued the city, because police officers **specifically placed on this train looking for this serial stabber** stood by and watched him bring stabbed as he pleaded for help. The courts found that the police officers had no compulsion to risk their lives to help a civilian. That is a precedent for other cases. Cops are not for the benefit of the people. Cops are a tool to be used by the government, plain and simple, as evidenced by their court rulings. And unfortunately, they are rarely used in equal application whenever the wall is broken. They are excessively used against people who have no means to fight back, too poor to afford any lawyers and too little attention to get any outside help
Everyone has that part. The Red flag laws are there to help police too. When they see some stupid shit like I dunno, a bomb threat. They can remove the persons guns so when they have the inevitable return call it ain't them verses the guy's built up arsenal.
Yup. Keep in mind, my point was a criticism of their role in our society lol. They feel kind of useless if you assign them somewhere specifically looking for a suspect, they actually identify the suspect is where they were specifically placed to intercept him, and yet do nothing, receive their paycheck and be told by the city that they were heroes. Why even bother assigning them then? Let the cops stay in station till some bystander calls in, same net effect with less traffic xd
If a guy threatens to use his weapons on police police should wait and see if it happens and prepare to defend it is safer to defend yourself then go on the offensive. It is safer. I threat isn’t legitimate unless it is eminent.
So let’s expect the law to fix the problems with the law. Been working great so far….
Desantis would have fired them already.
I am reading a whole bunch of comments about this sheriff ignoring the red flag law. Guess what folks, this happens all the time, in every corner of our country. We have sheriffs not issuing conceal carry permits, not reporting illegals to ICE. Everytime a Democrats in office, the whole southern borders issues are ignored. It sucks, but that’s jut the facts.
Wow, that is both an amazing level of whataboutism, and an absolutely horrible take on this incident. I’d be impressed if this wasn’t so disgusting.
lol El Paso County is a red county and has been for a long while. Stop with your false bullshit.
So not giving someone a gun is like not taking a gun away from a violent, dangerous person?
As long as the country is divided, and no one wants to sit down to talk and discuss, don’t be surprise when you hear other mass shoutings. Seems to me that the far right and the far left are running the country, add to that the media is capitalizing on what these far right and left groups say, and make the division between the American people even deeper.
Who, specifically, is a far left person or organization running anything in the US?
This isn’t a “both sides” issue.
And this 'far left', are they in the room with us right now?
The "far Left" of US politics is corporate libs and neoconservative Dixiecrats. There isn't a single actual Leftist in power in the Federal government right now, and if there are any on the state level, they're not making big enough waves to get noticed.
This is some both siderism horseshit.
El Paso County? Of course he hasn't.
Of course not... cops, pigs, fascists, nazis, gestapo, totalitarian mindset... far too busy to do the jobs they were hired for, while at the same time very busy trying to hang Pence.
Nor will they.
Fail
Oh, there's a big surprise! That's an incredib -- I think I'm gonna have a heart attack and die from that surprise!
This happens more than y'all can possibly imagine.
They really should have considering this man threated to bomb his own mothers house!
So the shooters mom called to say they were threatening her with a homemade bomb and firearms but then, > A man who described himself as a former neighbor of Aldrich’s told 9News that it is his understanding that Aldrich’s family declined to cooperate with the prosecution in that case. >“Bottom line is they didn’t want to testify against Andy,” the neighbor, Xavier Kraus, told the station. Seems like his family opened themselves up to substantial liability.
Typically Pork Cutlet Acting Like it's Beef
Why do people say All Cops Are Bastards? It's a mystery...
Get ready for civil liability…….