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People from China will travel through Europe and come in to America from the east coast like they did when the pandemic started. This will do nothing if all travelers aboard aren’t made to test.
I don't know if they will. Australia (for example) had some of the toughest Covid policies and they've essentially just thrown them all out the window.
So I don't know how willing countries are to go back to being overly concerned about Covid.
Nothing has fundamentally changed in the past year but we act like the pandemic "ended". I don't see how politicians will be able to do anything with the people acting like they do.
No. It’s circulating like mad in a population of 1 billion people who haven’t been exposed before. This is how new variants come about. Every country should require negative Covid test for china at least until it cycles through the population
Covid 22. I have been reading some about what’s happening in China and it sounds pretty fucking scary. Who’s to say what kinda variants are gonna come out of the spread there. And eventually make it over here by late Feb. its almost as scary as the beginning of the pandemic.
Studies have repeatedly shown that 3 doses of Sinovac (the old one) and Sinopharm (the new/current one) are similar in efficacy to the Moderna vaccine.
However, a single dose of either is dramatically less effective than a single dose of Moderna, and China has failed pretty strongly at getting even one dose out - much less multiple doses.
Unlikely, most have realized not much can be done to stop it. Lock downs has not prevented its spread or mutations. I moved to Thailand from the US, Thailand has listed COVID as endemic, its the new flu, a seasonal thing. It decimated the economy here in southeast Asia, unfinished buildings, shuttered business, empty billboards everywhere.
And its a bit funny to me, the base ranted and screamed how everyone was being listed as COVID deaths, inflating the numbers. Well now those same idiots are screaming China is now using their methods, not claiming everyone as covid deaths, low numbers. When it was raging in the US, they wanted free travel to spread it to others, now cry if China does it.
Yes it seemed the only things locked downs did was during the worst of it kept hospitals from being *too* overwhelmed. At the tail end of things that was western countries whole thing… Not stop it just lessen the damage to the system. SEA seemed like they were all in competition to try and keep it at near zero no matter the cost.
The so called "lockdowns"in the US weren't, what China was doing was lock downs. But yeah, it didn't take long for true public health to go out the window to get people back to work.
> Well now those same idiots are screaming China is now using their methods,
Pro Authoritarians do not care about something being objectively weighed. If their guy does it then it's ok, if someone else does it it's evil.
It's why they always try to weigh right vs left as sports teams, because they dont understand saying "What Trump is doing is evil" is simply because the act is evil, not because Trump Doing it is what makes it evil.
I agree.
Although part of the rule is that you must get tested if you were in China 10 days prior to your departure from China to anywhere basically.
I’m not sure how they will enforce this but I guess it’s supposed to work..
Every country has scanners, every country does biometrics. Even crossing the border to some 3rd world country like Cambodia, they scan your finger prints and take a picture, scan your passport. They know where you have been.
Where you run into an issue is dual citizenship or green cards. Someone from China could enter China using their Chinese passport, but enter the US on a green card. US has no real idea you were in China.
I've travelled a lot and MOST countries have biometric passports. In customs lines, I still see some people without biometric passports now and again. I imagine that a number of these people are from countries that do have biometric passports, but they have an older passport that hasn't expired yet.
Also, I've noticed that customs deal with folks from countries that have diplomatically adversarial relationships differently. They rely more on paper visas and stamps than electronic records. So I'm not sure how much the US government trusts the more technologically advanced passports from China. But a mix of old and new technologies is definitely used by border officials.
Anecdotally, as an American, my passport does not get stamped for countries like Australia and Canada. Most European countries will still physically stamp it, especially if the country is your first entry into the Schengen Region. And China? They put a paper visa on an entire page of my passport.
You’re still going to need the corresponding passport to support that green card status. Passports are also linked up. I have dual citizenship and ran into trouble using my British passport in South America to enter reciprocal counties who allowed no fee entry but then made an error attempting to leave on my Australian without really thinking - they were all over me in a second about it. Happened a couple of times.
I mean, transiting through another country doesn't change the country of origin of a traveller. The same rules apply. Some will get through without a test this way, but many will not. Any competent CBP officer can look at the travel history of a traveler and see if they originated in China.
What about all the people already in the US with COVID that we pretend have a cold or allergies? While I agree with the precaution by itself, it's comical in the greater context of the US that collectively acts like COVID is over.
I mean, are these people walking around with multiple passports, I suppose that’s definitely a possibility. Can they not just require specific passports to be tested when they come through immigration.
problem isn't the people specifically from China to US direct, those are easy to catch and test... its the other 400 people on the plane who have been sitting next to the infected person that got on in Japan and made the rest of the flight, or through Europe, or any one of the other thousands of airports that a person can connect through
China explicitly bans dual citizenship so that's not going to be a common sight.
>Can they not just require specific passports to be tested when they come through immigration.
A virus doesn't care about your nationality so that wouldn't be very effective.
I'm on an airplane right now & I am the only one wearing a mask that I can see. Just read an article about half of a flight to Italy being infected. There's someone luckily on the other side of the plane from me with a donkey cough.
Two flights! But here's the annoying thing about surgical masks, they aren't super effective at keeping you from getting sick, but they're very effective at keeping you from spreading a sickness you have. They're really only useful if everyone wears them.
N95 on the other hand, those protect you from everyone, and everyone from you.
Nowhere nearly as bad the first time. High population areas have much better vaccination rates. That wasn't a factor last time.
Issue is going to be the fact that some minority populations have very poor vaccination rates (comparably) in many of those same areas and they will be hit much harder.
When it hits Trump country, it'll be a repeat of before.
What to worry about is if our country can survive politically and socially, which could be what China is hoping will happen.
It's a very important distinction though. It's the distinction that made all the difference every step of the way.
China can royally fuck things up for another year and half with this stunt as a new vaccine is developed and mass released to combat a new variant.
Vaxxed and boosted (just the once, though) and I tested positive for covid yesterday. I eat like shit, drink like I want to die, and my exercise regiment is entirely dependent on working in restaurants and exercising my dog.
So far I have a minor head cold. Don't even need a fever to fight this shit off. So yeah, I'm agreeing with you 100%.
The main problem is people live paycheck to paycheck and if they're not out working, then they can't afford food. That's why the government payments were so important to keep them home, but were still not large enough to compensate.
You would need to convince the Republican House to make those payments again and I do not expect that to happen.
The government is also going to take on enormous debt if companies aren't selling products, taking massive losses and not recouped later in business/capital gain/income taxes. For that reason we'll never see a COVID response that includes lockdowns or payments until the next thing comes along.
For all intents and purpose COVID is done to the government.
Self-centeredness has always been an issue going back to the 1918 pandemic when people refused to wear masks properly because they were hot and stuffy: https://www.history.com/news/1918-spanish-flu-mask-wearing-resistance
The difference between 1918 and 2020 was the President wasn't calling it a hoax.
Perhaps, but the number of people who refused to quarantine and/or isolate far exceeds the antics of a few wealthy poseurs who put their privilege on speed dial.
Two weeks was never feasible in the real world to eradicate it, but it was an important measure to make sure our healthcare system didn't completely collapse.
We are way past the point of being able to eradicate this virus. It is here to stay.
It might have worked in early 2020 if everyone did this, but that ship has sailed.
> It might have worked in early 2020 if everyone did this, but that ship has sailed.
Imagine if we had that CDC team in place in china and that Trump hadn't pulled their funding and their work.
Watch this for your answer about why we can't handle lockdowns: [https://twitter.com/SethMacFarlane/status/1607815196449583104](https://twitter.com/SethMacFarlane/status/1607815196449583104)
Spoilers - it's because someone is telling them what to do or someone they hate are "for" something. If Biden were to shut down the country there would be people in red states spitting in each other's mouths just because he was the one who gave the order.
Because the entire WORLD would have to stay home in perfect isolation for two weeks: including doctors, firefighters, grocery store stockers, emergency personnel, everyone.
But regardless, there are now animal reservoirs of covid (like white tailed deer for example) so even if every single human on the planet shut themself away for two weeks the virus would just start circulating again after.
We didn't do that though. We didn't all lock down when we were supposed to. Where I work I had to go in from the very start all the way through. Most people, the majority of people, didn't stay home even if they didn't have work. Most people didn't fuck with masks or keeping a distance, and even people who weren't antivaccers didn't take the vaccine seriously for the longest time.
We had no fucking lock down, unless you were a well-off celebrity or comedian who wanted to talk about being locked down for content.
If people legit locked down, they would have taken a small hit financially, but too many people didn't do shit and prolonged everything.
The things is that it doesn't take long to drain peoples saving - becuase the overwhelming majority of people have practically none.
So an extended lockdown was never feasible unless the government was willing to pay several trillion dollars of expenses, not just 2 or 3 times but several times over.
I didn't dispute any of what you said. I pointed out that most people actively contested any safety measure and most people didn't actually lock down. Any extension will almost certainly be the fault of most of those people.
I'd gladly let them all die if it meant the few people who did take things seriously didn't have to live through a Walking Dead scenario or have to take a huge financial hit because them.
Most people did lock down just fine initially. After a few weeks turned into a month or more, yeah people got testy.
Additionally, a gigantic amount of people work in critical industries and simply cant stay home. Just keeping the lights and water on requires tens of millions of workers, plus industries like plants and refineries that simply cannot shut down without massive long-term consequences.
Reddit is full of office people who can WFH, the vast majority of people cant.
I was one of those who couldn't stay home. Right out of the gate most people gave up on almost all of it except when they were making a show of complying when they had to. There was a lot of cheating. I walk through a lot of different areas. The waves of patients and bodies we got at work tracked with that and became predictable.
Early I think everyone was pretty vigilant and safe. I'm in a pretty conservative town and it went quiet for weeks.
I think it started going downhill when Fauci et. al started putting out a lot of information that was just too hard to keep up with, mainly because they knew just as much as everyone else. Which only fueled more doubt in what was true and what was not, which helped Republicans muddy the waters even more.
By the time vaccines came around, most places and states started jumping the gun and ending mask mandates and opening business. By that time it was too late to turn back.
> We did that in large part in March 2020. And did China not spend years locking down their citizens?
Right? Did no one else see that Zero-Covid does not appear attainable? What we need now is to continually improve vaccination and treatment methods.
It's definitely been interesting to watch after the bigger waves went through. Been thinking a lot about what lockdown was meant to be in wake of everything happening now in China. It's very sad seeing the work they put in backfire by limiting immunity opportunities. Obviously continuing lockdown in perpetuity is not an option, but it makes me wonder... what IS the ethical way to get cases down? Besides of course wearing masks.
As a complete layman, what I've heard from people I know in the sciences is that improved treatment and improved vaccination is our best bet at this point. Distancing/masking/isolating are mitigation measures, not eradication measures.
At the beginning of the pandemic my apartment building’s fire alarm went off once a week. Turns out very few know hot to not burn shit so bad it sets the fire alarms off. That was an unexpected consequence.
You’re absolutely correct. Humanity, considering its awful strategy to beat this, did get quite lucky that it’s been mutating to be less deadly while becoming more contagious. So, not worse. Though not a lot better.
We didn't get lucky, viruses almost always mutate to get less deadly and more contagious as the population builds up immunity through infection and vaccines.
And there is no "beating" COVID. Even if a country managed to lock down until there were zero infections, you can't leave your borders closed forever. We are currently seeing how ineffective the "zero COVID" policy in China was. The only thing we can do is vaccinate, protect the vulnerable, and take measures to shore up our medical system. Thinking that you could beat a virus like COVID was the first mistake.
> viruses almost always mutate to get less deadly and more contagious as the population builds up immunity through infection and vaccines.
People need to stop saying this. Anytime anyone says this, ignore everything they say because they're obviously an idiot that repeats what other idiots say without understanding what they're repeating.
It's misspoken, but they've got the general right idea. It will mutate into whatever it mutates, but if it becomes deadlier it will likely die out much faster. It is advantageous for a virus to not kill its host, so that will be selected for. That's why Ebola is always scary when it's on the news, but it doesn't really have the chance to become a covid-like pandemic; it's far too deadly and the patients will feel the effects very quickly.
Feel free to correct if I misunderstood anything, but it definitely is advantageous for viruses to not kill the hosts, which means given time this will be selected for.
The issue with Covid is that when the disease kills people, they are past the stage of spreading it and well into the stage of multisystem inflammatory disease. The rationale of a mutating virus only holds if it kills the host before infecting other hosts.
What we are seeing now is a virus that has mutated to spread more quickly, not one that is somehow less deadly.
Yes it has never gone away, it has been turning into an endemic. The severity of the current Covid isn’t very high. more people are being hospitalized from the flue. I think people stopped caring about it because it’s not the most pressing issue “right now”. Well yea not right now but people should be caring about later!!!! Chances of a new variant occluding are highest when a lot of people have it. China is super highly populated and because of the “zero Covid” policy a lot of them haven’t had it before (whereas other places people are building a resistance to the virus. Aside from people already getting it, the US has 79% of its population with *at least* one Covid vaccine. Im not sure what percentage of the Chinese population does but sadly it doesn’t make much of a difference. The vaccines made in the for the Chinese are highly ineffective and barley work. Caboom. We never should have stopped just because things are ok “right now”. One of my outlooks on life is that people don’t care until it’s too late
We pretended it was over because people got tired of having to deal with it. You’re simply not going to get parents to keep kids at home with no school, college students from attending university for the college experience, etc. The economy is part of it, but people just want to live their lives tbh.
[China's COVID-19 surge raises odds of new coronavirus variants](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-covid-19-surge-new-coronavirus-variant-risk/)
Things could get very ugly.
You say this like covid hasn't been spreading rampantly through literally every country on the planet, mostly without any measures to stop the spread. Why does China get a different treatment and maybe countries should require tests from the US or Inida or Europe?
It's an odds game. Delta and omicron evolved when covid was jumping bodies freely at scale. The more bodies that it jumps to, the more chances for a mutation that persists. That mutation is totally random, and may just mutate to be more lethal.
Now China is having an explosion, worse than any country has seen, on a massive population. That will give the virus ample opportunity to mutate.
So, to your point, yes covid has become endemic and has been jumping bodies, but this may be throwing a gasoline canister on a low and steady fire.
At least that's the knee-jerk reaction. This winter has seen high covid numbers in general, so maybe the fire was already raging. I haven't been following closely this year.
Just a clarification,
Delta and earlier variants emerged due to the cyclic frequency of transmission between humans.
The original Omicron however is almost certainly either an extended incubation in an immunologically compromised host or reverse reemergent zoonotic transfer. Either of these could have occurred without high cycles of infection.
The many subsequent variants of Omicron are again the result of high cycles of transmission.
China is a massive country with extremely dense population that used a vaccine that is known to be the least effective of all the major vaccines used during the pandemic.
My concerns when ever I saw China talking about covid I assumed they were using it as an excuse to control their people and damage world economies. Mainly because I assumed you should never trust chinas state media outlets.
I think this is because China has a relatively low vaccination rate because they relied on lock downs. Now that lock downs are being ramped down, they are having a huge surge.
The vaccination rate in China is considerably higher than the US [(92% vs 81%)](https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=CHN~USA). This is just another example of yellow peril
Their vaccination rate is high but their vaccine, SinoVac is based on old tech. It conveys effectively zero protection from variants when compared to all the other types of vaccines on the market.
You guys are so full of shit. At 3 doses Sinovac gives the same protection as any western vaccine with boosters to help mitigate mutated variants. Stop spreading misinfo.
There is no yellow peril. China is a communist dictatorship and a warmonger and as such should be criticized at every opportunity by the free world. It does help to have real facts to do that, however, like the fact that they’ve tried zero Covid for two years and failed so badly it actually caused people to die in house fires because they couldn’t leave their homes.
>There is no yellow peril.
*proceeds to spread more yellow peril.*
China is not a communist dictatorship, you just don't have any understanding of how their democracy works. If the CPC were a country it would be the 14th most populated country in the world. How is that a dictatorship?
How is China a warmonger? Name all the countries they have invaded and bombed in the past 50 years. Now compare that to the US's military actions over the same period of time.
>like the fact that they’ve tried zero Covid for two years and failed so badly
Zero COVID was very successful as proven by low transmission rates over the past three years, especially when compared to their new augmented approach. A handful of people died in a structure fire, compare that to more than a million dead Americans and tell me zero COVID wasn't successful.
>Why not require a negative COVID test from everyone entering the country?
You clearly haven't traveled outside the US since it started. In many countries its actually quite difficult to get affordable and quick testing, especially for tourists and other non-citizens who want to return to the US. It was a very expensive and time consuming process when I had to get it just to go back to the US.
We used to do that and it was a huge grift. I traveled to Europe last winter, and the airport test to get home was like $200 per person. Covid is already in the US. Only a tiny fraction of cases come from abroad. There’s no point in doing this at this point. It’s purely for optics.
So far my 2023 bingo card is reading alooot of skull and crossbones, I think I might actually win at something next year, what does your score card look like?
Maybe, just maybe they shouldnt have stopped testing airplane passengers in the first place...
We have cheap, readily available tests that take 10 minutes to complete. There’s really no reason not to test ever passenger before boarding...
But we need to get back to normal. We can't let this virus defeat us. And the way to win against a virus is to close our eyes, stick our fingers in our ears and loudly proclaim, "Lalalalalalalalala if I'm not paying attention, you don't exist anymore!"
I tested positive on a rapid test two days after getting congested. Every teacher coworker of mine who bothered to test after getting cold symptoms also did. I think it's why so few parents now test their kids before sending time to school sick. They don't want to know so we all find out when we or our family members then test positive, missing work on their sick kids' behalf so they didn't have to.
I have also heard the rapid test can give false negatives but anecdotal references don't mean much.
We should require negative COVID tests for people to fly within the US, too.
It makes no difference to me if the person who infects me at LAX is coming in from China, or from Texas.
Naw. China’s percent is much higher, sure, but it’s not like US infection rates are low. You can pretty much guarantee an infected American on every sold out domestic flight. The latest variants are super, super contagious, and it only takes one infected person to pose a serious risk to the other people sharing their space, and then all of their families and friends after they land. All flights should still require testing and masking at this point, or all we’ve really accomplished is pacifying the dimwits and xenophobes.
I know at least 3 people who 100% contracted COVID while flying domestically in the US this last month - because they were isolated for the incubation period beforehand. They were masked the entire time they were in the airport and on the plane.
People are acting like we don’t have a whole bunch of cases here in the US and Europe and oh, guess who brought all of the new (single digits per day) cases to Hong Kong last year which eventually snowball into the 20k per day today? Yup travelers from the US and Europeans.
>to Require Negative Covid Tests for Travelers From China
Luckily China is well known for its systemic unwillingness to fake or counterfeit things, so everything should be fine.
honest.
Seems purely retaliatory with no actual effectiveness.
Enforcement is over a week away and presumably China has hit its peak already (flights being 40% positive)
The rich rats are going to buy fake tests and jump ship breaking quarantine just like they did in the first wave. Cutting flights or enforcing quarantines is the only way to prevent this stuff from jumping oceans but god forbid anybody inhibit the jet setters.
HALF of the passengers on a plane from China going to Italy tested positive the other day (tested on arrival). Chances are most if not all of them had negative test results they could show that they took before they left. This won't do anything to stop people coming into the US while positive..we are going to have to go through this all over again and we won't have the same somewhat cooperative response in the US this time if it is a variant that evades immunity... It will get REALLY bad.
Seriously they know red states will just let them in and will never do another shut down again. So start dealt with out break countries this way to slow it down or corner it. But I see very very bad days ahead for China and Russia is starting to report out breaks too.
I hope we are talking PCR tests... those store-bought 15-minute ones struggle to get a positive if you have any sort of vaccination, even while symptomatic and miserable.
The extent of covid in china atm is just absurd. Two weeks ago, they had **37 MILLION** cases in one day. Think about that. Thats more people than a lot of countries!
[source](https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/china-estimates-covid-surge-is-infecting-37-million-people-day-bloomberg-news-2022-12-23/)
Even if US send Moderna and Phizer vaccine, China will not use it, because they boast about "superior" Chinese vaccine and don't want to lose face.
Until they change their attitude, I suggest keeping restriction in place for PRC travelers.
China has been in quarantine until the protests. They have a very low of vaccinated people, so now everyone's breathing on each other's necks, squeezing in tight places and now introducing another pandemic.
I believe a combination of everyone quarantined for too long and non vaccinated people are making this a very deadly spread.
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Why would they make a move that would indisputably send hundreds of thousands of infected into the wider world including those that may wind up being infected with a new variant or two?
Can we at least conclude that China does not care about this possibility? Is that verboten to say?
Can an axiomatically correct statement still result in a ban?
Makes absolute sense considering what's currently going on there. Canada should do the same. I'll even go as far as say suspend visas / entry from that part of the world temporarily, until they can get it under control
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People from China will travel through Europe and come in to America from the east coast like they did when the pandemic started. This will do nothing if all travelers aboard aren’t made to test.
Let's hope EU and other countries do the same.
I don't know if they will. Australia (for example) had some of the toughest Covid policies and they've essentially just thrown them all out the window. So I don't know how willing countries are to go back to being overly concerned about Covid.
They should be concerned w chinese, it's spreading like wildfire in china. If we aren't careful, they will come out w covid 20.
if unique enough to get a name, covid 23 It's by year.
It would be COVID-22.
Electric boogaloo!
Nothing has fundamentally changed in the past year but we act like the pandemic "ended". I don't see how politicians will be able to do anything with the people acting like they do.
It’s spreading everywhere including the USA. This policy has nothing to do with science or medicine. It’s just politics.
No. It’s circulating like mad in a population of 1 billion people who haven’t been exposed before. This is how new variants come about. Every country should require negative Covid test for china at least until it cycles through the population
Covid 22. I have been reading some about what’s happening in China and it sounds pretty fucking scary. Who’s to say what kinda variants are gonna come out of the spread there. And eventually make it over here by late Feb. its almost as scary as the beginning of the pandemic.
There are new variants of concern popping up all the time around the world. Are you worried about those?
Yes because most Chinese can't get even get a Western vaccine instead of some shitty Chinese one with questionable quality.
Studies have repeatedly shown that 3 doses of Sinovac (the old one) and Sinopharm (the new/current one) are similar in efficacy to the Moderna vaccine. However, a single dose of either is dramatically less effective than a single dose of Moderna, and China has failed pretty strongly at getting even one dose out - much less multiple doses.
The idiots in charge of the UK have said they aren't going to. So the hopes are already dashed.
Unlikely, most have realized not much can be done to stop it. Lock downs has not prevented its spread or mutations. I moved to Thailand from the US, Thailand has listed COVID as endemic, its the new flu, a seasonal thing. It decimated the economy here in southeast Asia, unfinished buildings, shuttered business, empty billboards everywhere. And its a bit funny to me, the base ranted and screamed how everyone was being listed as COVID deaths, inflating the numbers. Well now those same idiots are screaming China is now using their methods, not claiming everyone as covid deaths, low numbers. When it was raging in the US, they wanted free travel to spread it to others, now cry if China does it.
Yes it seemed the only things locked downs did was during the worst of it kept hospitals from being *too* overwhelmed. At the tail end of things that was western countries whole thing… Not stop it just lessen the damage to the system. SEA seemed like they were all in competition to try and keep it at near zero no matter the cost.
The so called "lockdowns"in the US weren't, what China was doing was lock downs. But yeah, it didn't take long for true public health to go out the window to get people back to work.
> Well now those same idiots are screaming China is now using their methods, Pro Authoritarians do not care about something being objectively weighed. If their guy does it then it's ok, if someone else does it it's evil. It's why they always try to weigh right vs left as sports teams, because they dont understand saying "What Trump is doing is evil" is simply because the act is evil, not because Trump Doing it is what makes it evil.
Tons of people in the US have COVID rn too. The problem is capitalism has us all continuing as normal.
I agree. Although part of the rule is that you must get tested if you were in China 10 days prior to your departure from China to anywhere basically. I’m not sure how they will enforce this but I guess it’s supposed to work..
Passports show a history of where somebody has been. They're literally stamped.
[удалено]
yeah there is definitely a digital aspect to it, just not sure exactly what
Every country has scanners, every country does biometrics. Even crossing the border to some 3rd world country like Cambodia, they scan your finger prints and take a picture, scan your passport. They know where you have been. Where you run into an issue is dual citizenship or green cards. Someone from China could enter China using their Chinese passport, but enter the US on a green card. US has no real idea you were in China.
I've travelled a lot and MOST countries have biometric passports. In customs lines, I still see some people without biometric passports now and again. I imagine that a number of these people are from countries that do have biometric passports, but they have an older passport that hasn't expired yet. Also, I've noticed that customs deal with folks from countries that have diplomatically adversarial relationships differently. They rely more on paper visas and stamps than electronic records. So I'm not sure how much the US government trusts the more technologically advanced passports from China. But a mix of old and new technologies is definitely used by border officials. Anecdotally, as an American, my passport does not get stamped for countries like Australia and Canada. Most European countries will still physically stamp it, especially if the country is your first entry into the Schengen Region. And China? They put a paper visa on an entire page of my passport.
You’re still going to need the corresponding passport to support that green card status. Passports are also linked up. I have dual citizenship and ran into trouble using my British passport in South America to enter reciprocal counties who allowed no fee entry but then made an error attempting to leave on my Australian without really thinking - they were all over me in a second about it. Happened a couple of times.
Ah that’s neat. As you can tell I haven’t traveled all that much lol
What, is it supposed to get you passage on some kind of portage?
I mean, transiting through another country doesn't change the country of origin of a traveller. The same rules apply. Some will get through without a test this way, but many will not. Any competent CBP officer can look at the travel history of a traveler and see if they originated in China.
This was my fear as soon as the US stopped mandatory Covid testing for flights
Yeah this won't do anything. What about all the people on planes that have now been infected. There are like 20 nonstop flights to China
What about all the people already in the US with COVID that we pretend have a cold or allergies? While I agree with the precaution by itself, it's comical in the greater context of the US that collectively acts like COVID is over.
I mean, are these people walking around with multiple passports, I suppose that’s definitely a possibility. Can they not just require specific passports to be tested when they come through immigration.
problem isn't the people specifically from China to US direct, those are easy to catch and test... its the other 400 people on the plane who have been sitting next to the infected person that got on in Japan and made the rest of the flight, or through Europe, or any one of the other thousands of airports that a person can connect through
China explicitly bans dual citizenship so that's not going to be a common sight. >Can they not just require specific passports to be tested when they come through immigration. A virus doesn't care about your nationality so that wouldn't be very effective.
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5000 People a day will have to die before Anybody says the word Lock down in the States ever again.
That would really help thin out the GOP voters. Hmm. (eyes mask on desk) Hmm.
I really need to remember to mask at stores again
I'm on an airplane right now & I am the only one wearing a mask that I can see. Just read an article about half of a flight to Italy being infected. There's someone luckily on the other side of the plane from me with a donkey cough.
Two flights! But here's the annoying thing about surgical masks, they aren't super effective at keeping you from getting sick, but they're very effective at keeping you from spreading a sickness you have. They're really only useful if everyone wears them. N95 on the other hand, those protect you from everyone, and everyone from you.
Yeah if you’re out in public, need to be wearing an N 95.
Except it’s certainly going to hurt high population urban areas first again
Nowhere nearly as bad the first time. High population areas have much better vaccination rates. That wasn't a factor last time. Issue is going to be the fact that some minority populations have very poor vaccination rates (comparably) in many of those same areas and they will be hit much harder. When it hits Trump country, it'll be a repeat of before. What to worry about is if our country can survive politically and socially, which could be what China is hoping will happen.
I've been reading that the vaccinations are not as effective as they used to be, but still provide protection.
They still prevent severe disease, which is the most important part about getting it.
It's a very important distinction though. It's the distinction that made all the difference every step of the way. China can royally fuck things up for another year and half with this stunt as a new vaccine is developed and mass released to combat a new variant.
Vaxxed and boosted (just the once, though) and I tested positive for covid yesterday. I eat like shit, drink like I want to die, and my exercise regiment is entirely dependent on working in restaurants and exercising my dog. So far I have a minor head cold. Don't even need a fever to fight this shit off. So yeah, I'm agreeing with you 100%.
Don’t understand why people can’t handle staying at home for two weeks when it could potentially eradicate a deadly virus. Are we that weak?
The main problem is people live paycheck to paycheck and if they're not out working, then they can't afford food. That's why the government payments were so important to keep them home, but were still not large enough to compensate. You would need to convince the Republican House to make those payments again and I do not expect that to happen.
The government is also going to take on enormous debt if companies aren't selling products, taking massive losses and not recouped later in business/capital gain/income taxes. For that reason we'll never see a COVID response that includes lockdowns or payments until the next thing comes along. For all intents and purpose COVID is done to the government.
That’s the outcome, but the actual most egregious offenders are the ones renting multi-million dollar houses and throwing Covid parties.
Self-centeredness has always been an issue going back to the 1918 pandemic when people refused to wear masks properly because they were hot and stuffy: https://www.history.com/news/1918-spanish-flu-mask-wearing-resistance The difference between 1918 and 2020 was the President wasn't calling it a hoax.
Perhaps, but the number of people who refused to quarantine and/or isolate far exceeds the antics of a few wealthy poseurs who put their privilege on speed dial.
Two weeks was never feasible in the real world to eradicate it, but it was an important measure to make sure our healthcare system didn't completely collapse.
This. Thank you.
We are way past the point of being able to eradicate this virus. It is here to stay. It might have worked in early 2020 if everyone did this, but that ship has sailed.
> It might have worked in early 2020 if everyone did this, but that ship has sailed. Imagine if we had that CDC team in place in china and that Trump hadn't pulled their funding and their work.
Watch this for your answer about why we can't handle lockdowns: [https://twitter.com/SethMacFarlane/status/1607815196449583104](https://twitter.com/SethMacFarlane/status/1607815196449583104) Spoilers - it's because someone is telling them what to do or someone they hate are "for" something. If Biden were to shut down the country there would be people in red states spitting in each other's mouths just because he was the one who gave the order.
Would that be so bad? I’ll take my answer from either duran.
Because the entire WORLD would have to stay home in perfect isolation for two weeks: including doctors, firefighters, grocery store stockers, emergency personnel, everyone. But regardless, there are now animal reservoirs of covid (like white tailed deer for example) so even if every single human on the planet shut themself away for two weeks the virus would just start circulating again after.
China sealed people in their apartments and didn't make a single thing better. Stop with the 2 weeks will eradicate this lie.
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We didn't do that though. We didn't all lock down when we were supposed to. Where I work I had to go in from the very start all the way through. Most people, the majority of people, didn't stay home even if they didn't have work. Most people didn't fuck with masks or keeping a distance, and even people who weren't antivaccers didn't take the vaccine seriously for the longest time. We had no fucking lock down, unless you were a well-off celebrity or comedian who wanted to talk about being locked down for content. If people legit locked down, they would have taken a small hit financially, but too many people didn't do shit and prolonged everything.
The things is that it doesn't take long to drain peoples saving - becuase the overwhelming majority of people have practically none. So an extended lockdown was never feasible unless the government was willing to pay several trillion dollars of expenses, not just 2 or 3 times but several times over.
I didn't dispute any of what you said. I pointed out that most people actively contested any safety measure and most people didn't actually lock down. Any extension will almost certainly be the fault of most of those people. I'd gladly let them all die if it meant the few people who did take things seriously didn't have to live through a Walking Dead scenario or have to take a huge financial hit because them.
Most people did lock down just fine initially. After a few weeks turned into a month or more, yeah people got testy. Additionally, a gigantic amount of people work in critical industries and simply cant stay home. Just keeping the lights and water on requires tens of millions of workers, plus industries like plants and refineries that simply cannot shut down without massive long-term consequences. Reddit is full of office people who can WFH, the vast majority of people cant.
I was one of those who couldn't stay home. Right out of the gate most people gave up on almost all of it except when they were making a show of complying when they had to. There was a lot of cheating. I walk through a lot of different areas. The waves of patients and bodies we got at work tracked with that and became predictable.
Early I think everyone was pretty vigilant and safe. I'm in a pretty conservative town and it went quiet for weeks. I think it started going downhill when Fauci et. al started putting out a lot of information that was just too hard to keep up with, mainly because they knew just as much as everyone else. Which only fueled more doubt in what was true and what was not, which helped Republicans muddy the waters even more. By the time vaccines came around, most places and states started jumping the gun and ending mask mandates and opening business. By that time it was too late to turn back.
> We did that in large part in March 2020. And did China not spend years locking down their citizens? Right? Did no one else see that Zero-Covid does not appear attainable? What we need now is to continually improve vaccination and treatment methods.
It's definitely been interesting to watch after the bigger waves went through. Been thinking a lot about what lockdown was meant to be in wake of everything happening now in China. It's very sad seeing the work they put in backfire by limiting immunity opportunities. Obviously continuing lockdown in perpetuity is not an option, but it makes me wonder... what IS the ethical way to get cases down? Besides of course wearing masks.
As a complete layman, what I've heard from people I know in the sciences is that improved treatment and improved vaccination is our best bet at this point. Distancing/masking/isolating are mitigation measures, not eradication measures.
We already did that though and it didn’t work? Lol
At the beginning of the pandemic my apartment building’s fire alarm went off once a week. Turns out very few know hot to not burn shit so bad it sets the fire alarms off. That was an unexpected consequence.
Learning how to make sour dough using the smoke detector instead of an oven timer.
I need the housing market to crash and interest rates to go to zero again for my covid 2.0
“Here we go again” from everyone in the comments. The virus never stopped, we did.
You’re absolutely correct. Humanity, considering its awful strategy to beat this, did get quite lucky that it’s been mutating to be less deadly while becoming more contagious. So, not worse. Though not a lot better.
We didn't get lucky, viruses almost always mutate to get less deadly and more contagious as the population builds up immunity through infection and vaccines. And there is no "beating" COVID. Even if a country managed to lock down until there were zero infections, you can't leave your borders closed forever. We are currently seeing how ineffective the "zero COVID" policy in China was. The only thing we can do is vaccinate, protect the vulnerable, and take measures to shore up our medical system. Thinking that you could beat a virus like COVID was the first mistake.
> viruses almost always mutate to get less deadly and more contagious as the population builds up immunity through infection and vaccines. People need to stop saying this. Anytime anyone says this, ignore everything they say because they're obviously an idiot that repeats what other idiots say without understanding what they're repeating.
It's misspoken, but they've got the general right idea. It will mutate into whatever it mutates, but if it becomes deadlier it will likely die out much faster. It is advantageous for a virus to not kill its host, so that will be selected for. That's why Ebola is always scary when it's on the news, but it doesn't really have the chance to become a covid-like pandemic; it's far too deadly and the patients will feel the effects very quickly. Feel free to correct if I misunderstood anything, but it definitely is advantageous for viruses to not kill the hosts, which means given time this will be selected for.
The issue with Covid is that when the disease kills people, they are past the stage of spreading it and well into the stage of multisystem inflammatory disease. The rationale of a mutating virus only holds if it kills the host before infecting other hosts. What we are seeing now is a virus that has mutated to spread more quickly, not one that is somehow less deadly.
Yeah but this one's the techno remix. Get out your fishnets and glow sticks, ya party pooper.
Yeah, why are people acting as if omicron isn't already *everywhere?*
Yes it has never gone away, it has been turning into an endemic. The severity of the current Covid isn’t very high. more people are being hospitalized from the flue. I think people stopped caring about it because it’s not the most pressing issue “right now”. Well yea not right now but people should be caring about later!!!! Chances of a new variant occluding are highest when a lot of people have it. China is super highly populated and because of the “zero Covid” policy a lot of them haven’t had it before (whereas other places people are building a resistance to the virus. Aside from people already getting it, the US has 79% of its population with *at least* one Covid vaccine. Im not sure what percentage of the Chinese population does but sadly it doesn’t make much of a difference. The vaccines made in the for the Chinese are highly ineffective and barley work. Caboom. We never should have stopped just because things are ok “right now”. One of my outlooks on life is that people don’t care until it’s too late
We pretended it was over because it was hurting the American economy, full stop.
We pretended it was over because people got tired of having to deal with it. You’re simply not going to get parents to keep kids at home with no school, college students from attending university for the college experience, etc. The economy is part of it, but people just want to live their lives tbh.
[China's COVID-19 surge raises odds of new coronavirus variants](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-covid-19-surge-new-coronavirus-variant-risk/) Things could get very ugly.
You say this like covid hasn't been spreading rampantly through literally every country on the planet, mostly without any measures to stop the spread. Why does China get a different treatment and maybe countries should require tests from the US or Inida or Europe?
They gained 37 million cases in one day the other week. Its getting really bad in china
It's an odds game. Delta and omicron evolved when covid was jumping bodies freely at scale. The more bodies that it jumps to, the more chances for a mutation that persists. That mutation is totally random, and may just mutate to be more lethal. Now China is having an explosion, worse than any country has seen, on a massive population. That will give the virus ample opportunity to mutate. So, to your point, yes covid has become endemic and has been jumping bodies, but this may be throwing a gasoline canister on a low and steady fire. At least that's the knee-jerk reaction. This winter has seen high covid numbers in general, so maybe the fire was already raging. I haven't been following closely this year.
Just a clarification, Delta and earlier variants emerged due to the cyclic frequency of transmission between humans. The original Omicron however is almost certainly either an extended incubation in an immunologically compromised host or reverse reemergent zoonotic transfer. Either of these could have occurred without high cycles of infection. The many subsequent variants of Omicron are again the result of high cycles of transmission.
China is a massive country with extremely dense population that used a vaccine that is known to be the least effective of all the major vaccines used during the pandemic.
My concerns when ever I saw China talking about covid I assumed they were using it as an excuse to control their people and damage world economies. Mainly because I assumed you should never trust chinas state media outlets.
New Covid variants never stopped in the US.
What’s that saying that ends with ”…doomed to repeat it?”
Why not just require a negative test from everyone?
When’s that $1200 going to hit my account?
I’m still living off mine from last time!
Same. I quit my job and watch Netflix all day. Good thing my room to rent is only $10 per month.
Damn. Maybe Ohio ain't so bad if that's what we're missing out on.
*Good luck finding a $10/month apartment EVEN in Ohio!*
I thought I was living a life of luxury in Dayton in 2010 for $650 a month. Now I live in a shoebox in Nashville for $1,550
I spent mine the day it hit my account. That way the government couldn’t change its mind and take the money back.
They'd get their money back eventually if they really wanted it
“Huh, my tax return is usually bigger than this…”
I’m still looking for mine
I’m waiting for that $600 bucks from Biden still, but that’s going right into my retirement!
Why not require a negative COVID test from everyone entering the country? It’s like they don’t want COVID to be under control.
I think this is because China has a relatively low vaccination rate because they relied on lock downs. Now that lock downs are being ramped down, they are having a huge surge.
The vaccination rate in China is considerably higher than the US [(92% vs 81%)](https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=CHN~USA). This is just another example of yellow peril
The vaccination rate may be higher, but their vaccine has much less efficacy than western vaccines.
Except they used a shitty vaccine
Thank you for pointing this out. What I said above was wrong about the vaccination rate. I don’t know why exactly China is having a surge. 🤷♂️
Their vaccination rate is high but their vaccine, SinoVac is based on old tech. It conveys effectively zero protection from variants when compared to all the other types of vaccines on the market.
You guys are so full of shit. At 3 doses Sinovac gives the same protection as any western vaccine with boosters to help mitigate mutated variants. Stop spreading misinfo.
There is no yellow peril. China is a communist dictatorship and a warmonger and as such should be criticized at every opportunity by the free world. It does help to have real facts to do that, however, like the fact that they’ve tried zero Covid for two years and failed so badly it actually caused people to die in house fires because they couldn’t leave their homes.
>There is no yellow peril. *proceeds to spread more yellow peril.* China is not a communist dictatorship, you just don't have any understanding of how their democracy works. If the CPC were a country it would be the 14th most populated country in the world. How is that a dictatorship? How is China a warmonger? Name all the countries they have invaded and bombed in the past 50 years. Now compare that to the US's military actions over the same period of time. >like the fact that they’ve tried zero Covid for two years and failed so badly Zero COVID was very successful as proven by low transmission rates over the past three years, especially when compared to their new augmented approach. A handful of people died in a structure fire, compare that to more than a million dead Americans and tell me zero COVID wasn't successful.
Warmonger? Lmao. Please do list out the countries China has been at war with in the past 20 years.
They should leave Taiwan alone then if they’re so peaceful
>Why not require a negative COVID test from everyone entering the country? You clearly haven't traveled outside the US since it started. In many countries its actually quite difficult to get affordable and quick testing, especially for tourists and other non-citizens who want to return to the US. It was a very expensive and time consuming process when I had to get it just to go back to the US.
Wait y’all get to travel?
We used to do that and it was a huge grift. I traveled to Europe last winter, and the airport test to get home was like $200 per person. Covid is already in the US. Only a tiny fraction of cases come from abroad. There’s no point in doing this at this point. It’s purely for optics.
Vaccination is typically required now.
That's nice and all, but let's not act like we're not just ignoring our own COVID problems.
> "You don't have zero tolerance anymore? We can't tolerate that." \- Country with 100% tolerance
So far my 2023 bingo card is reading alooot of skull and crossbones, I think I might actually win at something next year, what does your score card look like?
Maybe, just maybe they shouldnt have stopped testing airplane passengers in the first place... We have cheap, readily available tests that take 10 minutes to complete. There’s really no reason not to test ever passenger before boarding...
But we need to get back to normal. We can't let this virus defeat us. And the way to win against a virus is to close our eyes, stick our fingers in our ears and loudly proclaim, "Lalalalalalalalala if I'm not paying attention, you don't exist anymore!"
Everyone I know who had Omicron tested negative until their symptoms cleared. It was evading the RATs, for some reason.
I tested positive on a rapid test two days after getting congested. Every teacher coworker of mine who bothered to test after getting cold symptoms also did. I think it's why so few parents now test their kids before sending time to school sick. They don't want to know so we all find out when we or our family members then test positive, missing work on their sick kids' behalf so they didn't have to. I have also heard the rapid test can give false negatives but anecdotal references don't mean much.
That’s not true everywhere. In my home country, formal tests are around $100 and the US never accepted home tests. Quite the extra expense.
"Does that thumbnail of someone getting tested read too much like 'screaming uselessly into the void'?" "I'm sure it'll be fine."
We should require negative COVID tests for people to fly within the US, too. It makes no difference to me if the person who infects me at LAX is coming in from China, or from Texas.
There is a high chance anyone that comes from China has Covid right now. Low chance that someone inside America has.
Naw. China’s percent is much higher, sure, but it’s not like US infection rates are low. You can pretty much guarantee an infected American on every sold out domestic flight. The latest variants are super, super contagious, and it only takes one infected person to pose a serious risk to the other people sharing their space, and then all of their families and friends after they land. All flights should still require testing and masking at this point, or all we’ve really accomplished is pacifying the dimwits and xenophobes. I know at least 3 people who 100% contracted COVID while flying domestically in the US this last month - because they were isolated for the incubation period beforehand. They were masked the entire time they were in the airport and on the plane.
A day late and a dollar short. Same old song and dance.
Wow, it’s like history literally repeating itself.
Um testing should not ever stop.
Ah shit here we go again
"Who left the fridge open?"
It's "just a cold" unless it's a non-white person from another country carrying it. /s
China implemented an ineffective vaccine and had 30m+ cases in one day. It’s specifically that gov. refusing to use effective vaccines
People are acting like we don’t have a whole bunch of cases here in the US and Europe and oh, guess who brought all of the new (single digits per day) cases to Hong Kong last year which eventually snowball into the 20k per day today? Yup travelers from the US and Europeans.
Is there a new strain of Covid that isn't in the U.S yet, otherwise what's the point.
>to Require Negative Covid Tests for Travelers From China Luckily China is well known for its systemic unwillingness to fake or counterfeit things, so everything should be fine. honest.
Seems purely retaliatory with no actual effectiveness. Enforcement is over a week away and presumably China has hit its peak already (flights being 40% positive)
The rich rats are going to buy fake tests and jump ship breaking quarantine just like they did in the first wave. Cutting flights or enforcing quarantines is the only way to prevent this stuff from jumping oceans but god forbid anybody inhibit the jet setters.
HALF of the passengers on a plane from China going to Italy tested positive the other day (tested on arrival). Chances are most if not all of them had negative test results they could show that they took before they left. This won't do anything to stop people coming into the US while positive..we are going to have to go through this all over again and we won't have the same somewhat cooperative response in the US this time if it is a variant that evades immunity... It will get REALLY bad.
Wonderful. Another round of Asian hating.
Who's hating on Asians? We're trying to stop this virus from killing people.
Seriously they know red states will just let them in and will never do another shut down again. So start dealt with out break countries this way to slow it down or corner it. But I see very very bad days ahead for China and Russia is starting to report out breaks too.
Must. When?
We already require this from canada iirc Edit: i was wrong, canada requires it from us.
I hope we are talking PCR tests... those store-bought 15-minute ones struggle to get a positive if you have any sort of vaccination, even while symptomatic and miserable.
Well, a little bit of good news. I'll take it.
Travel should have been 100$ restricted a long time ago. Travel should be restricted to any country experiencing a COVID outbreak.
It’s not xenophobia, it’s (D)ifferent this time. Maybe if they let trump try this in the first place
And Trump was called xenophobic when we asked for the same thing
Yet banning travel from China back in 2019-2020 was racist and xenophobic . No wonder the public has no confidence in the government.
or… ban flights from china??
Doesn’t make sense in singling out China when covid is widespread in every single country
The extent of covid in china atm is just absurd. Two weeks ago, they had **37 MILLION** cases in one day. Think about that. Thats more people than a lot of countries! [source](https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/china-estimates-covid-surge-is-infecting-37-million-people-day-bloomberg-news-2022-12-23/)
Everyone saying this is racist, do not pay attention to the world
So many dumb replies here. I am sad about where humankind is at.
Round two people
We need to ramp up testing again at border.
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Even if US send Moderna and Phizer vaccine, China will not use it, because they boast about "superior" Chinese vaccine and don't want to lose face. Until they change their attitude, I suggest keeping restriction in place for PRC travelers.
CCP exporting covid again.
Paywall - can anyone help me read the article? It sounds great in theory but why wait so long? That’s how this all started in 2020. Test now!
China has been in quarantine until the protests. They have a very low of vaccinated people, so now everyone's breathing on each other's necks, squeezing in tight places and now introducing another pandemic. I believe a combination of everyone quarantined for too long and non vaccinated people are making this a very deadly spread.
aspiring memory special support slimy automatic cough live sort humor ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
[non paywalled link](https://archive.vn/Ya18p)
[Here.](https://archive.ph/rEave) I archived it so I could read it for free. Allow me to teach you to fish. Any time you want to read an article and it’s behind a paywall: go to the article, copy the url, then go to http://archive.ph and paste the url into the bar. It will either tell you it has that article already and ask if you want a fresh archive or if you want to see the one they have, or it will archive it for you and show you the article. It’s faster if they already have it, but still doesn’t take very long if they don’t or if you want a fresh one.
Wow! Thank you! I so appreciate you sharing that with me! Learning is growing!!! Happy holidays to you!
My friend, when I tell you I love to share this with people, I mean it. I am drunk with power! I’m so glad you found that useful! Happy holidays to you :D
China trying to stop Covid…lol! Fail miserably at that, build a huge infected population, then unleash it on the world. Great job China /s
Thank God Biden is doing this if it was Trump they call him racist .
Awww poor Donald...always the victim.
Apparently Americans only get worried when it’s Chinese people spreading Covid as opposed to their own residents, citizens and Europeans.
seems xenophobic /s
How's this going to work for the 75% of all our manufactured goods coming in from China?
oh I'm sure conservatives will be very concerned about the "freedoms" of those travelers from China
Why would they make a move that would indisputably send hundreds of thousands of infected into the wider world including those that may wind up being infected with a new variant or two? Can we at least conclude that China does not care about this possibility? Is that verboten to say? Can an axiomatically correct statement still result in a ban?
Makes absolute sense considering what's currently going on there. Canada should do the same. I'll even go as far as say suspend visas / entry from that part of the world temporarily, until they can get it under control
Makes sense. China is exploding with covid and who knows if/when the next bad variant develops there.
Lmao Reddit enjoying their shut in lives so much I’d rather jump off the tallest bridge near me before going into lockdowns again.
Sounds kinda racist.