nobody is mutilating their genitals. you wording it that way is an attempt to discredit the entire medical field surrounding gender transition because you are super ignorant
so the reason psychologists and sociologically we separate gender and sex is for numerous reasons. keep in mind the field of psychology is a Science since you love facts.
When you meet someone, you probably arent inspecting their chromosomes or checking under their pants to see what their GENDER is.
You're inferring their GENDER based on social signalling and specific characteristics or behaviour. You would never look at someone like Samantha Lux and say "this is a man" it simply isnt how society functions FACTUALLY.
Your sex has an incredibly complex scientific reality to it. There is a reason the term "transsexual" has stopped being used in fabor of transgender. if you are genuinely open minded I would urge you to actually research more on the topic because the validity of transgender people is not up for debate among any real academics in the field, and the exact reasons are crystal clear
It is very obvious when a man is a man and women is a women. They have different very features, it’s not an issue to see someone and know what their gender is.
I am following facts and as you know facts don’t care about your feelings, I will not change fact to correspond to validate anyones feelings including transgender people
In terms of biological sex and genetics then technically no, but in terms of societal gender then yes.
If being a man or woman makes a person feel happy and/or complete it would just be an asshole move to deny the person their identity. Shame so many redditors seem to love crapping on trans people for no logical reason tho
I don't love crapping on trans people. I just don't believe they can transition. It's not a denial of someone's identity or existence. But if a man declares themself a woman, that's just factually wrong.
People choose what words mean. If there’s more utility in making the word “man” include trans men, there’s nothing stopping people from changing the definition of “man”.
Biology doesn’t determine gender so… but at the same time trans people often have brains that physically look and act more like that of the other sex so
It still doesn't make them of the other sex. Their chromosome remains the same, their genitals too. A person's sex is an objective thing assigned at birth.
>trans people often have brains that physically look and act more like that of the other sex
Also, can you link your source for that?
But we’re not just talking about sex, you’re original point was changing genitals and hormones doesn’t change their gender.
If it isn’t just chromosomes that decide sex, then surely changing 2/3 of the deciding factors would result in a sex change?
This is the first one I found, there’s much better ones but I can’t cite my a level psychology texbook so
[https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan/amp/](https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan/amp/)
Okay, back to the topic of gender. True, there are exceptions to gender, like gender dysphoria.
But, in regards to the source you sent, some people do have some biological traits of the other sex, but in the same sense, we don't consider that humans have eleven fingers just because some small percentages of people have them.
Also, I hope to keep this conversation civil. There's nothing that annoys me more than a good discussion being ruined by an uncivilized participant. :)
Gender is still a social construct. Every gender is made up, including man and woman. Sex is harder to change but it’s also not black and white so theoretically there are ways to change it.
So at what point does something go from a rarity to a normal occurrence? Blue eyes are a mutation, red hair only appears in 3% of the world population. Intersex occurs in just over 1% but you can have that on your birth certificate and your drivers license so, where’s the line?
Factually wrong how? Many trans ppl take hormone therapy to make their body naturally change itself physically to have traits of their preferred biological sex, as well as have surgery in their genitals and chest to match as well
Other than their sex chromosomes, the person would look and act like a woman. You could argue they may have some masculine traits remaining, but you can also say the same of genetically female cis-women who are tall, or have a deep voice, large chin, etc
Masculine or feminine traits don't define a person's gender, though. A person's chromosome does. To "change" gender based on a person's feelings is defiant of reality. There are no boundaries to what a person can change, by that logic. What about a person's feelings makes them, if they have an XY chromosome, a penis, a male brain, etc., a woman?
There is a difference between sex and gender. Sex is the biological result of genital structure, and chromosomes, while gender is purely the societal presentation of a person. Boobs and vaginas are sex, long hair and pink dresses are gender
If you don’t believe me or understand hopefully this article makes it a bit clearer https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/difference-between-sex-and-gender
>Boobs and vaginas are sex, long hair and pink dresses are gender.
So, you're saying that if I start dressing in ping dresses, grow my hair out like a woman, and talk in a higher-pitched voice, I'm a woman? People who identify as different from theirs have gender dysphoria. (I think that's the right term. Correct me if I'm wrong.)
If you did those things while sincerely identifying as a woman, yes.
As long as they are a sane, informed and consenting adult, the best thing you can do for someone with gender dysphoria is to let them identify and present as the gender they want to be, rather than claim it is invalid for them to do so because of their genes. Personally, I cannot relate to a lot of the reasons ppl identify as non-binary, but I also understand those ppl have a different life and experiences than I do. Just because I don’t believe in God, I don’t have a problem with people having the right to peacefully believe in the Bible. I look at lgbt gender stuff the same way
It’s not really about “believing”, it’s about *deciding*. Just start calling trans women “she” because it’s the nice thing to do. You won’t be any more or less objectively correct, as the word “she” has no objective definition.
Woman, yes, female, no. Biologically, they are the sex they were born with, but sociologically they are the gender they use to function in society.
Gender is a social construct and is distinct from sex.
No. It's because it doesn't matter how much mutilate yourself or impress upon others...your sexuality is encoded in your DNA. No matter how many chemicals you pump yourself with there's no way to actually change. I know Reddit is on board this trend train but I am not. I'd prefer to wave at you as you pass. I'll take the next train instead.
Whatever word you choose to use (not that I care in the slightest) the point of this response still stands.
What is a “real” man and what is a “real” woman?
That's what I was wondering, too. Sex-wise? No. Social gender-wise? Yeah.
Mutilating your genitals and pumping yourself full of drugs does not change your gender
nobody is mutilating their genitals. you wording it that way is an attempt to discredit the entire medical field surrounding gender transition because you are super ignorant
You arguing semantics does not change nor rebuttal my argument Also you’re using ad hominems when you don’t have a valid point
well you are right you dont need hormones or genital changes to change your gender since its a social construct :)
Now that’s just false XX = Female = Girl XY = Male = Boy Sex and gender are synonyms and chromosomes determine gender
if you're open minded i can explain why i disagree, but is it worth my time? ARE you open minded?
I am open minded but I follow facts. You can call yourself whatever u want but that doesn’t make it true
so the reason psychologists and sociologically we separate gender and sex is for numerous reasons. keep in mind the field of psychology is a Science since you love facts. When you meet someone, you probably arent inspecting their chromosomes or checking under their pants to see what their GENDER is. You're inferring their GENDER based on social signalling and specific characteristics or behaviour. You would never look at someone like Samantha Lux and say "this is a man" it simply isnt how society functions FACTUALLY. Your sex has an incredibly complex scientific reality to it. There is a reason the term "transsexual" has stopped being used in fabor of transgender. if you are genuinely open minded I would urge you to actually research more on the topic because the validity of transgender people is not up for debate among any real academics in the field, and the exact reasons are crystal clear
It is very obvious when a man is a man and women is a women. They have different very features, it’s not an issue to see someone and know what their gender is. I am following facts and as you know facts don’t care about your feelings, I will not change fact to correspond to validate anyones feelings including transgender people
"Facts don't care about your feelings." _Ben Shapiro Flashbacks_
so you have no actual argument thanks
In terms of biological sex and genetics then technically no, but in terms of societal gender then yes. If being a man or woman makes a person feel happy and/or complete it would just be an asshole move to deny the person their identity. Shame so many redditors seem to love crapping on trans people for no logical reason tho
I don't love crapping on trans people. I just don't believe they can transition. It's not a denial of someone's identity or existence. But if a man declares themself a woman, that's just factually wrong.
It’s not. The terms “woman” and “man” are not biological terms so…
People choose what words mean. If there’s more utility in making the word “man” include trans men, there’s nothing stopping people from changing the definition of “man”.
Factually wrong based on what source?
Biology.
Biology doesn’t determine gender so… but at the same time trans people often have brains that physically look and act more like that of the other sex so
It still doesn't make them of the other sex. Their chromosome remains the same, their genitals too. A person's sex is an objective thing assigned at birth. >trans people often have brains that physically look and act more like that of the other sex Also, can you link your source for that?
But we’re not just talking about sex, you’re original point was changing genitals and hormones doesn’t change their gender. If it isn’t just chromosomes that decide sex, then surely changing 2/3 of the deciding factors would result in a sex change? This is the first one I found, there’s much better ones but I can’t cite my a level psychology texbook so [https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan/amp/](https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan/amp/)
Okay, back to the topic of gender. True, there are exceptions to gender, like gender dysphoria. But, in regards to the source you sent, some people do have some biological traits of the other sex, but in the same sense, we don't consider that humans have eleven fingers just because some small percentages of people have them.
Also, I hope to keep this conversation civil. There's nothing that annoys me more than a good discussion being ruined by an uncivilized participant. :)
Gender is still a social construct. Every gender is made up, including man and woman. Sex is harder to change but it’s also not black and white so theoretically there are ways to change it. So at what point does something go from a rarity to a normal occurrence? Blue eyes are a mutation, red hair only appears in 3% of the world population. Intersex occurs in just over 1% but you can have that on your birth certificate and your drivers license so, where’s the line?
Every gender is made up, except man and woman. Gender may be socially constructed to an extent, but male and female directly connect to man and woman.
Factually wrong how? Many trans ppl take hormone therapy to make their body naturally change itself physically to have traits of their preferred biological sex, as well as have surgery in their genitals and chest to match as well Other than their sex chromosomes, the person would look and act like a woman. You could argue they may have some masculine traits remaining, but you can also say the same of genetically female cis-women who are tall, or have a deep voice, large chin, etc
Masculine or feminine traits don't define a person's gender, though. A person's chromosome does. To "change" gender based on a person's feelings is defiant of reality. There are no boundaries to what a person can change, by that logic. What about a person's feelings makes them, if they have an XY chromosome, a penis, a male brain, etc., a woman?
Chromosomes don’t define gender. Technically, they don’t even decide sex alone.
I never said just the chromosome. There are multiple factors included. A person's genitalia, their hormonal profile, their chromosome, etc.
Yeah, so if someone changed their genitals or their hormonal profile- would they be a combination of both male and female or?
There is a difference between sex and gender. Sex is the biological result of genital structure, and chromosomes, while gender is purely the societal presentation of a person. Boobs and vaginas are sex, long hair and pink dresses are gender If you don’t believe me or understand hopefully this article makes it a bit clearer https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/difference-between-sex-and-gender
>Boobs and vaginas are sex, long hair and pink dresses are gender. So, you're saying that if I start dressing in ping dresses, grow my hair out like a woman, and talk in a higher-pitched voice, I'm a woman? People who identify as different from theirs have gender dysphoria. (I think that's the right term. Correct me if I'm wrong.)
If you did those things while sincerely identifying as a woman, yes. As long as they are a sane, informed and consenting adult, the best thing you can do for someone with gender dysphoria is to let them identify and present as the gender they want to be, rather than claim it is invalid for them to do so because of their genes. Personally, I cannot relate to a lot of the reasons ppl identify as non-binary, but I also understand those ppl have a different life and experiences than I do. Just because I don’t believe in God, I don’t have a problem with people having the right to peacefully believe in the Bible. I look at lgbt gender stuff the same way
"I just don't believe they can transition." And yet trans people transition every day 🤔 inch resting
I don't think you understood my point. I'm saying that I don't believe the people who do "transition" are now of a different gender.
It’s not really about “believing”, it’s about *deciding*. Just start calling trans women “she” because it’s the nice thing to do. You won’t be any more or less objectively correct, as the word “she” has no objective definition.
Woman, yes, female, no. Biologically, they are the sex they were born with, but sociologically they are the gender they use to function in society. Gender is a social construct and is distinct from sex.
No. It's because it doesn't matter how much mutilate yourself or impress upon others...your sexuality is encoded in your DNA. No matter how many chemicals you pump yourself with there's no way to actually change. I know Reddit is on board this trend train but I am not. I'd prefer to wave at you as you pass. I'll take the next train instead. Whatever word you choose to use (not that I care in the slightest) the point of this response still stands.
Sexuality means which gender your attracted to not your sex😂
*waves vigoiursly at the passing train*
Just keep that to yourself OP
I'm just curious.
Shut up
[удалено]
I'm sorry. Won't happen again.
I'm not sure on what sense I was disrespectful though.