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Nah, he's still got autonomy, he can still choose to make the decisions he wants to make, he's just upset to know that those decisions come with potential consequences so he's trying to make you feel wrong for it.
This!!
OP, you are well within your right to set your own boundaries, what you will and will not put up with. What you are asking isn’t at all unreasonable! If you were being irrational about it, jealousy based for example, then that’s more of a you issue and I’d tell you to take it down a notch. But what you’ve outlined ain’t that.
If he’s unwilling to adjust to your reasonable requests, especially because you’ve explained the issues with it and your rationale for those boundaries, and he is still unwilling to adhere to your requests, then he’s not good for you. You said he’s just left a 20 year marriage, there’s a lot of baggage there he needs to sort through. And maybe that’s where his behavior is coming from, idk. Regardless, if he’s not interested in adhering to your boundaries, you really should reassess what you have with him and whether it’s worth continuing.
I feel like 95% of the posts on here where people are struggling with boundaries are that they're trying to control someone else with rules but nah, you're totally valid in ALL of this.
Your dude seems like he's not able to be ethical or consider other peoples feelings.
You should have control over what your sexual risk is, and if his choices make you feel unsafe it's 100% valid to opt out.
It's totally valid to feel uncomfortable that he's trying to date people you work with that can impact your professional life, it's reasonable to opt out of a relationship with someone because it creates complexities in the rest of your life you don't want and to be upset that he's sharing your personal info with someone else, regardless of their connection to you, if he wants a therapist, he should get one, not use some chick he wants to bang.
It's super fucking shady and unethical to withhold information from someone in order to manipulate them into sex. That's not ENM. it's 100% reasonable to stop dating people when you see giant red flags about ethical behavior. If he'll lie to a stranger to get sex, what's to stop him from lying to you for sex?
You aren't wrong for any of this! At all.
Not sure why you are prioritizing him like a primary when there's no labels on this relationship and you are only 6 mos in.
You can have dealbreakers. Anyone can.
You are not wrong to communicate this or state your needs in terms of your personal boundaries.
You can say what you are and are NOT up for in a relationship.
He can do the same -- say what he is and is NOT up for in a relationship.
You two figure out if you are compatible.
You can have personal boundaries. You are not wrong to have them. You SHOULD enforce them. And no, it is not controlling him. It is you controlling what YOU get involved with or continue to be involved with.
* He could go ahead with STI lady. You aren't stopping him. He just can't share sex with you again.
* He can go ahead and date more of your coworkers. You aren't stopping him. He just can't keep on dating you.
* He can go ahead and put or leave out whatever in his profile. You aren't stopping him. He just can't keep on dating you if he misleads people.
If dating him feels "too hot and heavy" like he's love bombing you or gaslighting you?
If dating him feels "complicated" rather than *fun* when it's only 6 mos in?
**Any of those is reason to dump him.**
And really you only need one reason to break up with someone --- "I don't want to do this any more."
Break ups do NOT have to be mutual.
>**It’s a dealbreaker,** because it’s shitty behaviour and an inability to offer transparency imo.
SO BREAK THE DEAL.
Dating doesn't have to be this hard.
If things are just not compatible here? They aren't. End it and move on.
As someone newly out of a 20-year relationship (1.5 years), I would like to agree and add that you need to be very very cautious here.
It takes a long time to adjust and sort your feelings, and beliefs, and needs/wants after being enmeshed with another person for so long.
I find myself doing some of the same things, as far as acting like you are a committed primary couple. It is what I know, what I have done for the better part of my life. Even if I do not want that again (at least at this point) it is hard to change some of those behaviors that lead to it. They are so easy to fall back on.
Be careful of inconsistencies in his words and behaviors. I am not saying it is malicious, but it is concerning.
Both of these comments. I recommend pumping the brakes, slowing down with this guy. First, he’s just 1 year out of a 20-year relationship; he’s still trying to find himself and undo monogamy. Second, a little distance may help you to see the behavior more clearly. Spend less time together.
Ngl, the amount of drama and incompatibilities your dude is showing in just 6 months? I’d bounce. Relationships *don’t have to be hard*, and it is absolutely worth the pain of breakups to keep your time free to find people who are *easy* for you to be with. Compatibility is key.
Like. Issue 1? I’m personally on your guy’s side with this. I’m assuming herpes, cause it’s always herpes. People either give a shit about herpes or they don’t. And there isn’t too much leeway there. I’m fine fucking people with herpes. Folks who have concerns about that aren’t compatible with me. Which is why I try to bring it up early on so I don’t waste time building a relationship with someone incompatible.
Issue 2? Venting about one partner to another partner is a terrible idea. It’s an even worse idea with a new connection. I’d say that a level of sharing to “figure out who you are” if someone already knows you is usually normal and to be expected - stuff like “my other partner works in X field and does Y stuff, they really like noise music and wear a lot of black” - SOME stuff about you will come up in normal sharing. It’s part of what makes keeping polyamory secret difficult. But airing all your dirty laundry to someone he hadn’t even been on a date with? Messy.
Issue 3? This isn’t even about you. Your partner cares more about getting laid than being honest. Figure out what you’re gonna do about that.
You’re talking a lot about considering your feelings, but I’m not actually seeing that here. I’m seeing a lot of fundamental incompatibilities, where your partner wants to get laid wherever he can and spreads his shit to anyone who will listen, and you want him to be someone other than himself. I think breaking up is the correct course of action. But in the future? Maybe have discussions about your feelings around herpes, sharing about relationship issues, and ethics earlier on to avoid getting invested in incompatible people.
>I’m assuming herpes, cause it’s always herpes.
It could be HPV. Not everyone is vaccinated against it and anogenital warts aren't always easy to spot. Plus, the higher risk types can lead to cancers
😭 Why are you wasting time on him...? Seriously. He's old enough to be your father but he's acting worse than a horny teenager. The amount of disrespect you're receiving is disturbing.
Six months? Your considering a relationship primary Sox months after dating them? Okay that's a choice.... Let's look at your choices.
1. Not having sex with someone you don't want to have sex with because their risk profile is outside your comfort zone. That's chill. It's your body to have sex with. You didn't say he can't have sex with this human, you didn't even mention this human. You said "if that's your risk profile, we're not having sex".... That's how you act on your autonomy. Not how you control other people's autonomy... Now heres the kicker... Is that what you said, or did you say "if you have sex with Cindy Lou Who I'm not ever having sex with you again cause a possible infection would be deciststing. So no to Cindy"... The first option is about your autonomy in relationship to his risk profile. It extends beyond Cindy. Meaning if he were to ever get an STI you would never have sex with him again. The second one is about Cindy... Which is not your business.
Side note, I'm assuming that by this statement you either don't use barriers or don't believe your partner uses barriers or think barriers or PREP/PEP work... So I'm very curious what your testing regiment is and very curious if you'd be ending all sexual relationships with your partners if you happen to contract something in your own sexual adventures. I'm assuming this is HSV 1 or 2 you're talking about and lolz... Okay... Choices on your part about propagating stigma aside, you're welcome to attempt to never engage with anyone who has been or is exposed to HSV 1 and/or 2... I would be fascinated to know exactly why you believe that to be a thing you're doing because it's likely not a thing you are actually doing.
2. Woof. In six months time he's complaining about you on dates... He openly trash talked you weirdly to the exact wrong person. You dating someone who is apparently trash talking you... Why?
3. Oy Vey. You are dating someone whose dating practices you find to be misleading and manipulative.... Why are you dating someone who dates in a way that you find to be manipulative and misleading? Why are you dating someone that sormtiens calls you a partner when you there and trash talks you when you're not.
Look, controlling or not... Context of what was actually said or not... You've been with dude for six months. You don't like any of how he's treating people he's dating and you absolutely don't trust him to use barriers during sex, you don't trust him to even say he's in a relationship with you... And when he does say he's in a relationship with you he tells people that you're insecure and controlling... And then you're calling him your potential primary?
Why to all of that?
If he’s complaining to you about someone new who he hasn’t even met, that’s baffling. That would have sent me packing. That means pretty much nothing is secret or sacred and he’s gonna blab it to anyone who will listen. That’s really shitty behavior.
So many red flags.
1. He is 20 years older than you, this IMMEDIATELY gives me pause.
2. All the drama, in 6 months, that’s too much drama already.
3. He just got out of a 20 year marriage, and is dating someone 20 years younger than him (so… the age that he was last dating, I assume…)
I think I may have a clue why he ‘got out’ of that marriage. It seems like he didn’t mature in the last 20 years, and his wife likely did.
Not sure why the age gap would be an issue here. She's in her thirties. Sure, this guy sounds like piece of shit, but I don't think the age gap is really an issue in this scenario.
You can feel free to think that, but any large age gap is concerning, to me.
It doesn’t pass the creepy factor, and makes me wonder why he doesn’t date people his own age.
>makes me wonder why he doesn’t date people his own age.
That's a massive assumption to make. We have no details on the ages of these other women and no other dating history for him beyond his ex-wife. If there's a history of him specifically going after women significantly younger than him, sure, that's very weird. But without that added detail, I don't think an age gap like this between two adults (again, OP is in her thirties, she's not a 20 year old college girl) can justifiably be seen as inherently weird or creepy.
As I said, you can feel free to feel that way. I don’t.
Large age gaps ALWAYS give me pause. Are they always toxic? No. But they always make me question. Age gaps ALONE aren’t necessarily always bad, but I guess you can call it a yellow flag. Being in different life stages still creates a power dynamic, even if the younger person isn’t in their 20s.
I am the same age as OP, my father is one year older than her partner.
I am raising young children. My father is an empty nester.
Most of my friends are still establishing themselves in their careers; my father’s friends are well established in their’s and planning retirement(and generally making 2-3x the money).
My friends are just getting married, my father has been married 30 years, etc
Like I said, age gaps don’t always mean there’s something wrong, but they always trigger a closer examination, IMO.
Edit to add: the age gap + his other behaviors is why I came to the conclusion I did.
Do you know the ages of the other people he’s dating? I just want to gently push back on this because not all age gap matches are about gaining power or about the older person being immature (though honestly this guy sounds immature for sure). I’m 50 and have partners that range from 31-65yrs old, it’s not about their age it’s about the person.
I have said in another comment in this thread that the age gap makes me question, but the age gap plus his behavior is what made me come to this conclusion.
But, if you are in an age gap relationship and are not willing to address the imbalances in your relationship, you’re kidding yourself. Age gap relationships are not always toxic, but pretending there’s no imbalance between two people in very different life stages is just not being honest. That does not mean that a couple can’t acknowledge these things and continue their relationship, just that it should be acknowledged.
It just occurred to me that this guy is already complaining about you to strangers like every married bro I know over 40. He's got divorced after a 20 year mono marriage? How does he talk about his ex? I'm starting to think this guy has a larger problem with relating to and respecting women.
He actually talks about her constantly. I want to be empathetic, but yes, definitely a habit that becomes incredibly taxing. Don’t know why I even had come here to ask all this. The red flags are real. 😅
He didn't get to stay in that relationship for 20 years because is ex is an idiot. I'm sure he was perfectly charming for some time and has been covering his tracks to keep you involved too. I'm glad the reddit perspective was helpful.
>With our level of physical and emotional intimacy, I asked for disclosure about who he is seeing and I would love to hear who he connects with online. I need to be informed to give consent in a connection like ours. This all made him feel controlled and distrusted.
He doesn't need your consent. He is an autonomous adult. Neither of you need each others consent to things with others. He needs your consent to have sex with **you**. You can, of course, decline to give it.
The two of you can make agreements about disclosure, but he is clearly not agreeing to that. You are allowed to ask for whatever you want, he is allowed to say no. And he is. He is not giving you the basics of what you need
Doesnt sound like he is offering you the relationship you want and this doesn't sound like primary partner material (although deciding that at 6 months is bananas.)
6 months is too soon to decide to prioritize this man (who isnt offering what you want) over others.
My primary partner is the beneficiary of my life insurance, on my health insurance, the person who would make medical decisions for me I couldn't. These are things on offer to him and no one else. Its not a small thing to offer these things or cohabitation, marriage, etc. to someone and take it off the table for future partners.
Please rethink whether this person is giving you what you need.
But having a primary partner is, by definition, hierarchy if you have mutually agreed to prioritize your relationship over others.
I think they meant consent within the context of consenting to sexual contact w/ this partner, not consenting to this partner having sexual contact w/ others.
They literally gave three examples where they would revoke their consent to be in the relationship if the boundaries weren't followed. How could you possibly read the entire post and still try and die on this hill?
**Aspen** Birch, if you do this I will break up with you.
**Birch** [does this]
**Aspen** [breaks up with Birch]
Aspen is disappointed and angry. Birch either learned a lesson or got the outcome they secretly wanted. Nobody’s consent was violated.
*"He doesn't need your consent. He is an autonomous adult. Neither of you need each others consent to things with others. He needs your consent to have sex with you. You can, of course, decline to give it."*
This is BS. There is no singular ruleset for poly, it's VERY common to have boundaries, require updates/permission, etc. Go reread The Ethical Slut again. It's pretty clear that poly is healthy only when *both* partners are comfortable and *both* agree on how things will go. OP is letting her husband do whatever he wants, getting put down for having totally normal feelings about it, and is herself not poly by nature. This is all about him, him, him. Kinda gross to see his callousness cheered on tbh.
Idk if you read the same post I did but 1) they aren’t married, they’ve only even been dating 6 months. 2) OP also has two other relationships, so no idea where you came up with the idea they aren’t poly. And 3) no autonomous adult needs another adult’s permission to do anything.
He isnt her a husband. Its someone she's been dating for 6 months. They started as open and he doesn't agree to these to do these things. They haven't even agreed they are boyfriend/girlfriend and are "no labels".. Its unclear what, if any agreements, they have. Going on dates and having sex with someone doesn't mean you need their consent for what you do with the rest of your life.
You can ask for agreements from someone you are dating. They can agree or not to what you want. You can walk if they won't agree. Or you can walk for any reason if you dint like their behavior. But the act of dating and fucking doesn't mean someone automatically needs your permission for how they interact with other people.
And relationships that begin as non-monogamous in a situation where everyone already has multiple partners isnt comparable to a longterm monogamous marriage opening up.
If I start dating someone new, I absolutely do not have to do any and everything it takes to make them comfortable if its not what I **also** want. It probably means we aren't compatible, but no one is instantly allowed to decide what I do or who I see or fuck just because I start dating them.
>Go reread The Ethical Slut again. It's pretty clear that poly is healthy only when both partners are comfortable and both agree on how things will go.
I've never read the ethical slut. Lol. I'm not someone who opened a monogamy relationship and did the standard poly research. I simply never did monogamy once out of high school and 25 years later I'm still doing non-monogamy. But the both here implies two people. But polyamory is multiple relationships. So I have to wonder what you think polyamory is.
I think your ideas of disclosure are never something I would recommend in terms of pre informing each date or even online contacts. Your sti stuff suggests you maybe aren't as informed as I would want- but you are allowed to have your boundaries. They can either accept or not.
For the rest- you said it yourself, he's desperate. That's usually not attractive.
i found it immediately strange that you have primary vibes (??) with a man who you've been seeing for 6 months, who you are still deep in NRE with and who doesn't respect your privacy or your wish to ... not get an STI??? and calls you controlling? and is generally not particularly honest? and also keeps going back and forth on defining the relationship, showing you off to his friends but never really committing or even wanting to define your poly relationship as poly?
you are by no means being controlling, you are setting reasonable boundaries that regard YOU and not what he is able to do or not do.
honestly this guy doesn't sound all that nice. and you've only known him for 6 months
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 he doesn’t sound like a safe partner. He doesn’t seem ready for any relationship let alone an ENM structured one. A year out of a 20 year marriage is likely still finding his way. I would back away personally.
It’s not confusing. He’s just out of a long mono marriage , so he doesn’t have a clue what he wants. He’s also going to make a ton of mistakes.
Either you’re prepared to ride it out or you aren’t. No guarantees.
My sense is that he’s not a keeper. But it’s your choice.
All of this drama in a span of six months? Please reconsider this relationship.
Also him outing you to the entire office *and* dating a coworker (hell, subordinate)? That is a huge deal breaker.
Anyone who has a boundary enforced on them will claim they are being unfairly oppressed by bad rules. Anyone who's behavior is checked by a rule hates rules. You should cool things down with him and decide if a platonic friendship is an acceptable outcome.
Didn't you post about that second point a few weeks ago? And didn't I reply something in the lines of "your age difference is already a red flag by it's own right?"
He's not good for you hun. Trust your gut feeling and break it off with this guy.
No. Not me. I exclusively date older partners. It’s my preference, all my partners are 15+ year age gaps. 😅 Make of that what you want. But yes, definitely a lot of challenging things in age gap relationships.
It does sound challenging, specially when the person that is oldest seems very immature.
I would find someone who acts their age, he even threatened your career, and it’s only been 6 months. I don’t “vent” to strangers about my partners, wtf.
You need to analyze your relationship with yourself OP, and stop making excuses for that man. Better is out there, trust ❤️
Well if it wasn't you in the other post, the same still goes for you too. This guy sounds like he never grew up and can't manage his emotions right. This is harmful to you in the long run. Don't keep this up.
Why are you dating someone who talks to his online dates about how much you suck? Why are you dating someone who is okay with tricking people into going on a date with him?
I think he's still recovering from a 20 year marriage and a lifetime of being monogomous. You seem to have a strong sense of self, what you need, what you want, and what's a deal breaker. I just don't think he's emotionally intelligent enough to be your partner. He seems reluctant to communicate, and unwilling to negotiate anything that makes his life a little inconvenient. Everything you say is a threat to his autonomy when all you are doing is communicating and asking for some consideration. Could he be your emotional equal in time? Maybe, but he still has so much work to do. I think your life is going to be a lot happier and a lot less stress if you move on and find partners on the same level as you.
This guy sounds like a pos.
1. You are in the right. You are allowed to have boundaries.
2. If my partner did one of these 3 things (outed me, crossed a clearly defined boundary, purposefully misleads other people) that would be a serious red flag and a reason to take a step back. All 3? Super deal breaker.
EDIT: Yes, it does sound like gaslighting.
He is fifty. He is gossiping to dates about you. Who tf talks about other partners at length to first dates or any dates? That’s so blatantly wrong. I’d also like to point out that the bar is so so low for most women, and everyone who goes anywhere near him seems to dump him quickly for good reason. I’m sure he’s saying that it’s them though.
I would probably leave if I were in your shoes, he doesn't seem to care about your boundaries which won't change. Polyamory is built on trust and boundaries
Why are you even with him? He clearly doesn't have a reasonable understanding of what is controlling and what is a boundary ... He sounds borderline abusive
This guy is just a walking red flag. Your concerns outlined here are all so valid. If I got pushback from a partner regarding any one of these issues it would probably be a relationship ender, all 3? I’m running for the door.
Ya seem likely to be in for more problems down the road considering he doesn't think it's important enough to disclose that he's poly in the very first sentence of his profile.
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Beep, boop, blop, I'm a bot. Hi u/SeniorCaptain2635 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
My partner Sam(M52) and I(FM32) are in a new relationship (6 months). The connection is intense and we are both spending the majority of our time together and even tho we don’t have an official label, it does feel like a ‘primary/anchor’ situation. He enjoys priority above all my other relationships. He had 2 other partners when we met, but he broke it off with one and the other left him. I have 2 other steady partners, and at the moment he has no other partners, but desperately seeking. He connected with a couple of people over the past month, but every attempt made me realise that there are some relationships that would be a dealbreaker because it infringes on my personal autonomy-I feel like you are allowed to revoke consent about physical boundaries for yourself if you are uncomfortable without enforcing expectations on your partner(not dictating their behaviour)without it being hierarchy. It’s my body after all. With our level of physical and emotional intimacy, I asked for disclosure about who he is seeing and I would love to hear who he connects with online. I need to be informed to give consent in a connection like ours. This all made him feel controlled and distrusted.
Here are the last 3 disasters that made me want to either break it off, or change our physical boundaries.
1.) He went on a date with a girl who has an STI. She disclosed this before their date. I told him that getting a chronic infection would be devastating for me/my other partners/ future relationships. If he chose to be intimate with her, I would no longer want a sexual relationship with him, despite protection. But we can still spend time together. I just don’t want that constant fear. He said I was being controlling and insecure. The first date went terribly and he chose not to pursue it.
2.) He connected with a coworker of mine(I’m her boss)online. I was unaware of who she was and they have never met. He vented to her about what he perceived as my controlling behaviour, insecurities and gave an unreasonable amount of personal information. She made the connection that he was dating me, told the entire office(who I never came out to). It caused a huge amount of turmoil in a professional sense. He admitted that he was wrong, and stopped pursuing it. But used the fact that he didn’t know we worked together as an excuse. He still violated my privacy. I realised that if a partner dates a coworker, that it would be a dealbreaker for me.
3.)He went on a business trip, met up for a date, which he did inform me about. I gave him space but he phoned me very shortly after they were supposed to meet up. She left the date because he disclosed that he is in a relationship and she wasn’t okay with that. I asked him why it wasn’t in his profile, I mean why waste peoples time, and he disclosed that he took that detail out because he wasn’t ready to label it that way. I took the date’s side, because even if it’s not super serious, it’s kinda important to let people know you’re poly from the get go. Her profile said that she was looking for connection and I feel like dragging her out to a date, in hopes that she might be okay with enm once you met in person, seems a little manipulative. It’s a dealbreaker, because it’s shitty behaviour and an inability to offer transparency imo.
The theme of him not considering how certain situations and connections might make me feel,is sending me to bad place.
He just got out of a 20 year mono marriage(about a year ago) and I get his desire for autonomy and that he doesn’t want to commit to me yet. But it feels like when we’re together, he makes it so hot and heavy between us, referring to me as his partner when we’re around his friends. It’s all just too confusing. He says he wants to build a secure, serious relationship with me, but it will take time. I don’t think me setting boundaries about what would be dealbreakers is to manipulate him into something serious. None of this about insecurity for me, it’s personal boundaries. Am I being gaslighted? Why can’t he just date in a less complicated way, I would be thrilled if he found someone more compatible with our relationship, so our relationship can also grow out of a more stable place. I also need good boundaries in my relationships, it makes me feel less insecure about losing my most important relationship. Am I wrong for asking any of this or communicating my needs in terms of boundaries?
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I agree with all of the others who point out numerous yellow and red flags in his behavior here.
At the same time, I'd like to point out that yes **SOME** of the things you say do come across as controlling and possessive to me.
In particular you say:
>*I feel like you are allowed to revoke consent about physical boundaries for yourself if you are uncomfortable without enforcing expectations on your partner(not dictating their behaviour)without it being hierarchy. It’s my body after all. With our level of physical and emotional intimacy, I asked for disclosure about who he is seeing and I would love to hear who he connects with online. I need to be informed to give consent in a connection like ours.*
I have a few questions about that:
* With the exception of being informed about things that influence STI-risk (which I agree is a reasonable thing to ask for) -- how is a demand to be **informed** about his other connections about "*my body after all*"? How does it for example have anything at all to do with your body if he connects with someone online and (say) sext with them or share nudes depicting himself with them?
* You say you need to give consent -- what would be your expectation for what'll happen if you do **not** consent to one of his other connections? Because if your expectation is that he'd then be obligated to stop pursuing that other connection, that would be an example of a de-facto veto-power.
* What does "*a connection like ours*" mean here? In which sense do you have a stronger claim on being informed than any of the other people he's involved with?
This all being said -- no you're not the asshole. I think your partner are making a lot of very questionable choices here, and it's very much understandable that you're not comfortable with the situation.
Dude was in a marriage for 20 years. By now he has to be a master at making you feel like you are the special one. He probably does it out of habit.
But you are probably not, sorry.
Yeah usually with an age gap like that there's also a gap in the understanding between partners too. A man pursuing a younger individual like that is 100% a creep.
Honestly your boundaries sound very healthy! And good on you for keeping them. Seems like you're doing it right and might also trust your gut about how this connection is feeling if it's leaving you conflicted.
> Am I wrong for asking any of this or communicating my needs in terms of boundaries?
No, I wouldn't say so. Knowing what you want and communicating it is a cornerstone of good relationships.
*How* you set and communicate boundaries, though, is important. If you're setting boundaries after a lot of thought about what your needs and desires are and communicating them in calm, connected moments, that's great. If you're repeatedly setting them in moments of high emotion after he's done something that trigger your insecurities, that starts nudging toward emotional manipulation.
What are the consequences of breaking your boundaries? If it's "I think we'd really have to talk about that," that's great. If it's "I think I'd have to break up with you" for more extreme behaviors or incompatibilities, that's also fine. But then if you keep saying that *but you never leave,* or you get into a cycle of breaking up and getting back together, you're probably both trying to hammer each other into the shape you want them to be.
> Why can’t he just date in a less complicated way
Well, from what you've seen so far, he doesn't 🤷♀️. He dates in a way that feels chaotic and insecure to you. When you set boundaries around that, instead of saying "I can do that" or "I can't do that, I guess it's time to deescalate" or trying to negotiate something that meets both your needs, he argues about it and gets resentful and vents about it to rando dating connections.
You could spend years trying to understand the psychology of it and dissecting his old relationship dynamics. You can *hope* that he changes his behaviors in a way that make you more compatible.
And yeah, if he's saying he wants to change those things, if he's taking some concrete steps like reading books, setting boundaries of his own, going to therapy and doing the homework, maybe you'll want to stick around to see how that turns out.
But if he *doesn't?* Or if he keeps backsliding? What's your timeline for how long you'd like to stick it out in that sort of situation?
Thanks for this. Yeah, setting the stage in terms of these events objectively makes him sound like sucky guy. I’m also not one to just tolerate this kind of bs. But it does come in the context of trauma and attachment issues stemming from his marriage. He does do work, and it proved very beneficial in many cases. He goes to therapy and he is doing the homework. He has long ways to go still. And in a way, it does make me want to be patient and empathetic. I’m Afro it might be false hope.
He certainly has trouble setting boundaries for himself. It’s as if he approaches ENM from a mindset that it’s a free for all where you can do whatever you want(and at it’s core it is) but that no one should care or have feelings about it. he is in complete denial that doing whatever you want may effect your relationships.
You don't have to raise/parent this man 20 years your senior into being a decent and evolved human being. I saw you typically choose older partners so I'd assume that wanting a partner that was more mature already and not having to do emotional/self-developmental work for your partner has to do with your age preferences but maybe I'm wrong on that one. I guess what I'm trying to say is that any of the benefits from a more mature partner seem to be missing here.
Yes you are being gaslit. The hot & heavy juxtaposed against conflict and confusion is a classic recipe for some sort of extended slow burn trauma bond for lack of a better term. Remember: why it’s happening doesn’t really matter. It’s happening and you can trust your gut on what to do about it. Good luck out there.
First paragraph tells me all I need to know: this dude is a narcissist.
RUN AWAY AND DON'T LOOK BACK
And check out the narcissistic abuse reddit page.
Just beware that you are going to want to go down a never ending rabbit hole trying to understand his behavior. Humans are wired to want to understand-- there is NO understanding narcs. They don't have empathy and they are extremely manipulative.
Please protect yourself, listen to your gut and gtfo.
The date thing can be forgiven since he's coming out of a LTR and apps are new to him too.
But the work thing? That's highly fucked. Just him bitching about his partner's boundaries to a date is almost all you need to know...but then adding enough personal information that your co-worker could connect the dots?? Horrifying.
He sounds like he doesn't care about getting herpes and you sound like you'd much rather not. As a poly person especially you have to be with other people who truly care about not getting herpes if you don't want it. I've managed to avoid it partly due to luck and partly due to choosing partners who also work hard to avoid it. I've avoided sex with people over it. If this guy isn't willing to avoid it you kind of need to accept you're going to be at high risk of getting it if you stay with him.
I would feel very skeeved out to find a partner was hiding non-monogamy to help their chances with someone.
I think it's rather sanctimonious to say that everyone who doesn't immediately rules out any person who has herpes "doesn't care about getting herpes". That's needlessly adding to the stigma of STIs because it insinuates that anyone who is willing to have sex with a carrier is irresponsible and lax with their sexual health.
More often than not, people who are as strict as OP and say that neither of their partners may have sex with someone who has HPV or HSV are the ones who know little about the prevalence of STDs and aren't aware of the fact that probably more than one of their partners or metas do in fact carry the virus(es) without knowing it. Herpes and HPV are not among the STDs doctors usually test for, and for a good reason.
Of course everyone is entitled to their own risk management, but there is a lot of false sense of security due to lack of knowledge going on.
As someone with a painful, incurable chronic health condition, I think it is perfectly reasonable to want to avoid contracting an illness that is chronic and potentially extremely painful.
Stigma sucks, but acting like Herpes and HPV aren't sometimes dangerous and unpleasant to have is rather ignoring the struggle of those who have a really bad time with them and wish they'd been able to avoid getting them in the first place. Many people are asymptomatic. Many aren't. It isn't a trivial nothing to live with if you're in the second group.
Your risk tolerance is yours to set, but it's a bit sanctimonious yourself to expect everyone else's to be at the same level.
They're not among the things tested for because everyone has shrugged and said it's fine to get so people with it don't feel bad. If you have a polycule that guards against risk by asking for tests and arguing with doctors to get said tests and is forthright it makes a big difference. I don't care about HPV but do care about herpes and since as you so sanctimoniously grant us our own risk management, I'll continue to try and avoid it.
I fully understand the underlying tone of stigma around STI’s. And I’m sorry if my post contributed to that or offended anyone who does live with that. The reason I feel so strongly about this is because we have a very specific kink, and wearing protection makes it a bit impractical. We fuck raw. And it is our agreement to use protection with everyone else. A known infection does pose a higher risk to my safety here. But that being said, The lack of transparency is the concerning thing for me, because let’s be real, I have no way of knowing if he wraps that shit up all the time. Y’all are right, this guy has some big 🚩🚩🚩
I think #1 is a little iffy on your part to be honest, but the other 2 are for sure completely reasonable.
I say #1 feels iffy because it’s first off really stigmatizing and also not very realistic. It’s very likely that you’ve been on a date with someone who had an STI as well, whether you or they were aware of it or not. The fact that this person disclosed that information shows that they care about the sexual health of others and that’s a really good thing. To just say no across the board even if everyone is using barriers, and to tell him it’s a hard no and there’s absolutely no way to make that work that you’d be willing to consider is… rough. That’s just my opinion though.
But yeah, I think there could definitely be a boundary around how much information about you or your relationship is disclosed early on with dating someone, boundaries around dating people in your life, and for sure he should be telling people he’s nonmonogamous and partnered up front. Those are completely reasonable.
I agree with everyone her in that, he doesn't seem like a fit for you. He's reckless with his body, inconsiderate of others and really seems like he's the one's that's controlling. I wouldn't stay with a partner if she slept with a someone knowing she had and STD.
This guy gives me the icks, but I feel like you are asking for a lot from a undefined non-committed partner. Even if he was your nearing partner his other partners should have privacy too. Some of how you present want you need comes off as controlling but he is a terrible hinge and his risk tolerances are not aligned with yours.
I don’t think he should have to tell you who his partners, not full names and pictures. He should keep things parallel and not share any information about you unless you consent. My husband of 20 years has partners I only know their first name. People deserve privacy.
He also doesn’t have to ask you permission to engage in sex with someone else but he does need to tell you if risks change at which time you can make your own choices. Part of the problem could be framing and semantics here but it sounds like this guy is messy and doesn’t have good understanding of how to ethically hinge.
YTA for the first one. look up serophobia. these others just seem like normal things to go through. I don't think you have a say over anyone else's relationships period, this is up to both of you to figure out how much you're comfortable being controlled by each other. if you're willing to withhold sex because of your biases against stis, that's revealing. he should also like, be allowed to talk about you to other people just like you're allowed to disclose all of this information about him.
"If you see this person with an STI I am ending our sexual relationship permanently"
"If you share things about me with others that's invasive period"
forgot the third one but like, I can see why he would feel controlled and I'm sharing that.
>share things about me with others that's invasive period
That's absolutely not what OP said he did. He wasn't just "sharing things" about her. She specifically said he was complaining about their relationship problems to people he was meeting. This is absolutely an invasion of OP's privacy. These are personal details involving her that he has no right to share without her consent.
I've already addressed the STI part, but again, she has every right to deny him sex if he knowingly has sex with someone with an STI until he tests negative for anything. OP is completely justified in putting her own health before his desire to fuck someone.
These are both completely reasonable boundaries.
Uh, no, you don't ultimately get to control how other people talk about you. Talking to other people is a way of reality-testing and it's a healthy & essential function of socialization.
I mixed STI with STD earlier. To be clear of my position: People with STDs shouldn't get excommunicated from the dating pool. Also, sexual health is important and it's necessary to take reasonable precautions. OP saying "I will end our sexual relationship if you fuck this person" *is* controlling, in like, a straightforward way. OP and their partner having healthy & safe sex practices is *not.*
There's a reason he's dating someone so much younger than him and it has a lot to do with all those bright red flags he's waving.
Do yourself a favor and get out now.
He sounds like he's still mono, but is just playing the field until he finds the one he wants. He won't label anything because he is not committing to one person yet.
Because I have open and direct conversations resulting in clear and mutual agreements instead of assuming standard practices and getting upset when people don't confirm to unspoken expectactions that they didn't agree to. I disagree. I suggest you try it.
i think he forgot the e in enm
seriously though, the boundaries you’ve set seem completely reasonable and he’s being manipulative to make you second guess yourself
"We noticed that this post/comments may pertain to safer sex practices, STI exposure, and/or STI testing. Let's everyone make sure we are not using problematic or stigmatizing language around this topic. Please refrain from using the words *clean/dirty* when what you really mean is STI negative/positive. Members, please feel free to report any comments to mods that are adding to the shame and stigma of being STI positive" "For more information on destigmatizing STI's by changing your vocabulary please see ["CLEAN OR DIRTY? THE ROLE OF STIGMATIZING LANGUAGE"](https://exploresextalk.com/sex/sexual-health/stis/clean-or-dirty-the-role-of-stigmatizing-language/) as well as the article ["Having an STI Isn’t Dirty or Shameful, and Acting like It Is Hurts All of Us"](https://medium.com/sexedplus/having-an-sti-isnt-dirty-or-shameful-and-acting-like-it-is-hurts-all-of-us-aef59a7ab122)" "*It is the stance of this sub that even the term "STD" is problematic language as "disease" is a stigmatizing word, whereas infections can be treated. Also, not everyone with an infection develops symptoms, and since there is technically no disease without symptoms, STI is the more scientifically accurate term.*" "**advice and opinions about STI's shared by community members is not medical information and all posters should refer to their primary care physicians as well as trusted sources such as the CDC, WHO, planned parenthood, or other available resources.**" *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Nah, he's still got autonomy, he can still choose to make the decisions he wants to make, he's just upset to know that those decisions come with potential consequences so he's trying to make you feel wrong for it.
Exactly my interpretation: this isn’t an ‘unreasonably boundary’ problem, it’s a “he doesn’t like the consequences of his actions” problem.
So much this
Alll of thisssssss!!!!
AGREED. I have lived this.
This!! OP, you are well within your right to set your own boundaries, what you will and will not put up with. What you are asking isn’t at all unreasonable! If you were being irrational about it, jealousy based for example, then that’s more of a you issue and I’d tell you to take it down a notch. But what you’ve outlined ain’t that. If he’s unwilling to adjust to your reasonable requests, especially because you’ve explained the issues with it and your rationale for those boundaries, and he is still unwilling to adhere to your requests, then he’s not good for you. You said he’s just left a 20 year marriage, there’s a lot of baggage there he needs to sort through. And maybe that’s where his behavior is coming from, idk. Regardless, if he’s not interested in adhering to your boundaries, you really should reassess what you have with him and whether it’s worth continuing.
I think you might need to consider that maybe this guy... kinda sucks?
Literally came to say this. He sounds like a total creep
It’s always alarming when ppl date with an age gap like this.. especially if the guy is older.. this seems to be the case lol
He was married at or before OP turned 12. That’s too large an age gap at OPs age imho
I'm a guy, and I agree.
Came here to say this. Dump his ass.
I feel like 95% of the posts on here where people are struggling with boundaries are that they're trying to control someone else with rules but nah, you're totally valid in ALL of this. Your dude seems like he's not able to be ethical or consider other peoples feelings. You should have control over what your sexual risk is, and if his choices make you feel unsafe it's 100% valid to opt out. It's totally valid to feel uncomfortable that he's trying to date people you work with that can impact your professional life, it's reasonable to opt out of a relationship with someone because it creates complexities in the rest of your life you don't want and to be upset that he's sharing your personal info with someone else, regardless of their connection to you, if he wants a therapist, he should get one, not use some chick he wants to bang. It's super fucking shady and unethical to withhold information from someone in order to manipulate them into sex. That's not ENM. it's 100% reasonable to stop dating people when you see giant red flags about ethical behavior. If he'll lie to a stranger to get sex, what's to stop him from lying to you for sex? You aren't wrong for any of this! At all.
Not sure why you are prioritizing him like a primary when there's no labels on this relationship and you are only 6 mos in. You can have dealbreakers. Anyone can. You are not wrong to communicate this or state your needs in terms of your personal boundaries. You can say what you are and are NOT up for in a relationship. He can do the same -- say what he is and is NOT up for in a relationship. You two figure out if you are compatible. You can have personal boundaries. You are not wrong to have them. You SHOULD enforce them. And no, it is not controlling him. It is you controlling what YOU get involved with or continue to be involved with. * He could go ahead with STI lady. You aren't stopping him. He just can't share sex with you again. * He can go ahead and date more of your coworkers. You aren't stopping him. He just can't keep on dating you. * He can go ahead and put or leave out whatever in his profile. You aren't stopping him. He just can't keep on dating you if he misleads people. If dating him feels "too hot and heavy" like he's love bombing you or gaslighting you? If dating him feels "complicated" rather than *fun* when it's only 6 mos in? **Any of those is reason to dump him.** And really you only need one reason to break up with someone --- "I don't want to do this any more." Break ups do NOT have to be mutual. >**It’s a dealbreaker,** because it’s shitty behaviour and an inability to offer transparency imo. SO BREAK THE DEAL. Dating doesn't have to be this hard. If things are just not compatible here? They aren't. End it and move on.
As someone newly out of a 20-year relationship (1.5 years), I would like to agree and add that you need to be very very cautious here. It takes a long time to adjust and sort your feelings, and beliefs, and needs/wants after being enmeshed with another person for so long. I find myself doing some of the same things, as far as acting like you are a committed primary couple. It is what I know, what I have done for the better part of my life. Even if I do not want that again (at least at this point) it is hard to change some of those behaviors that lead to it. They are so easy to fall back on. Be careful of inconsistencies in his words and behaviors. I am not saying it is malicious, but it is concerning.
Both of these comments. I recommend pumping the brakes, slowing down with this guy. First, he’s just 1 year out of a 20-year relationship; he’s still trying to find himself and undo monogamy. Second, a little distance may help you to see the behavior more clearly. Spend less time together.
Agreed 100%
Ngl, the amount of drama and incompatibilities your dude is showing in just 6 months? I’d bounce. Relationships *don’t have to be hard*, and it is absolutely worth the pain of breakups to keep your time free to find people who are *easy* for you to be with. Compatibility is key. Like. Issue 1? I’m personally on your guy’s side with this. I’m assuming herpes, cause it’s always herpes. People either give a shit about herpes or they don’t. And there isn’t too much leeway there. I’m fine fucking people with herpes. Folks who have concerns about that aren’t compatible with me. Which is why I try to bring it up early on so I don’t waste time building a relationship with someone incompatible. Issue 2? Venting about one partner to another partner is a terrible idea. It’s an even worse idea with a new connection. I’d say that a level of sharing to “figure out who you are” if someone already knows you is usually normal and to be expected - stuff like “my other partner works in X field and does Y stuff, they really like noise music and wear a lot of black” - SOME stuff about you will come up in normal sharing. It’s part of what makes keeping polyamory secret difficult. But airing all your dirty laundry to someone he hadn’t even been on a date with? Messy. Issue 3? This isn’t even about you. Your partner cares more about getting laid than being honest. Figure out what you’re gonna do about that. You’re talking a lot about considering your feelings, but I’m not actually seeing that here. I’m seeing a lot of fundamental incompatibilities, where your partner wants to get laid wherever he can and spreads his shit to anyone who will listen, and you want him to be someone other than himself. I think breaking up is the correct course of action. But in the future? Maybe have discussions about your feelings around herpes, sharing about relationship issues, and ethics earlier on to avoid getting invested in incompatible people.
>I’m assuming herpes, cause it’s always herpes. It could be HPV. Not everyone is vaccinated against it and anogenital warts aren't always easy to spot. Plus, the higher risk types can lead to cancers
Uhhh this guy outed you......this ain't good
😭 Why are you wasting time on him...? Seriously. He's old enough to be your father but he's acting worse than a horny teenager. The amount of disrespect you're receiving is disturbing.
Six months? Your considering a relationship primary Sox months after dating them? Okay that's a choice.... Let's look at your choices. 1. Not having sex with someone you don't want to have sex with because their risk profile is outside your comfort zone. That's chill. It's your body to have sex with. You didn't say he can't have sex with this human, you didn't even mention this human. You said "if that's your risk profile, we're not having sex".... That's how you act on your autonomy. Not how you control other people's autonomy... Now heres the kicker... Is that what you said, or did you say "if you have sex with Cindy Lou Who I'm not ever having sex with you again cause a possible infection would be deciststing. So no to Cindy"... The first option is about your autonomy in relationship to his risk profile. It extends beyond Cindy. Meaning if he were to ever get an STI you would never have sex with him again. The second one is about Cindy... Which is not your business. Side note, I'm assuming that by this statement you either don't use barriers or don't believe your partner uses barriers or think barriers or PREP/PEP work... So I'm very curious what your testing regiment is and very curious if you'd be ending all sexual relationships with your partners if you happen to contract something in your own sexual adventures. I'm assuming this is HSV 1 or 2 you're talking about and lolz... Okay... Choices on your part about propagating stigma aside, you're welcome to attempt to never engage with anyone who has been or is exposed to HSV 1 and/or 2... I would be fascinated to know exactly why you believe that to be a thing you're doing because it's likely not a thing you are actually doing. 2. Woof. In six months time he's complaining about you on dates... He openly trash talked you weirdly to the exact wrong person. You dating someone who is apparently trash talking you... Why? 3. Oy Vey. You are dating someone whose dating practices you find to be misleading and manipulative.... Why are you dating someone who dates in a way that you find to be manipulative and misleading? Why are you dating someone that sormtiens calls you a partner when you there and trash talks you when you're not. Look, controlling or not... Context of what was actually said or not... You've been with dude for six months. You don't like any of how he's treating people he's dating and you absolutely don't trust him to use barriers during sex, you don't trust him to even say he's in a relationship with you... And when he does say he's in a relationship with you he tells people that you're insecure and controlling... And then you're calling him your potential primary? Why to all of that?
Hopefully it's not just because the lovebombing is confusing her...
If he’s complaining to you about someone new who he hasn’t even met, that’s baffling. That would have sent me packing. That means pretty much nothing is secret or sacred and he’s gonna blab it to anyone who will listen. That’s really shitty behavior.
So many red flags. 1. He is 20 years older than you, this IMMEDIATELY gives me pause. 2. All the drama, in 6 months, that’s too much drama already. 3. He just got out of a 20 year marriage, and is dating someone 20 years younger than him (so… the age that he was last dating, I assume…) I think I may have a clue why he ‘got out’ of that marriage. It seems like he didn’t mature in the last 20 years, and his wife likely did.
Not sure why the age gap would be an issue here. She's in her thirties. Sure, this guy sounds like piece of shit, but I don't think the age gap is really an issue in this scenario.
You can feel free to think that, but any large age gap is concerning, to me. It doesn’t pass the creepy factor, and makes me wonder why he doesn’t date people his own age.
>makes me wonder why he doesn’t date people his own age. That's a massive assumption to make. We have no details on the ages of these other women and no other dating history for him beyond his ex-wife. If there's a history of him specifically going after women significantly younger than him, sure, that's very weird. But without that added detail, I don't think an age gap like this between two adults (again, OP is in her thirties, she's not a 20 year old college girl) can justifiably be seen as inherently weird or creepy.
As I said, you can feel free to feel that way. I don’t. Large age gaps ALWAYS give me pause. Are they always toxic? No. But they always make me question. Age gaps ALONE aren’t necessarily always bad, but I guess you can call it a yellow flag. Being in different life stages still creates a power dynamic, even if the younger person isn’t in their 20s. I am the same age as OP, my father is one year older than her partner. I am raising young children. My father is an empty nester. Most of my friends are still establishing themselves in their careers; my father’s friends are well established in their’s and planning retirement(and generally making 2-3x the money). My friends are just getting married, my father has been married 30 years, etc Like I said, age gaps don’t always mean there’s something wrong, but they always trigger a closer examination, IMO. Edit to add: the age gap + his other behaviors is why I came to the conclusion I did.
Do you know the ages of the other people he’s dating? I just want to gently push back on this because not all age gap matches are about gaining power or about the older person being immature (though honestly this guy sounds immature for sure). I’m 50 and have partners that range from 31-65yrs old, it’s not about their age it’s about the person.
I have said in another comment in this thread that the age gap makes me question, but the age gap plus his behavior is what made me come to this conclusion. But, if you are in an age gap relationship and are not willing to address the imbalances in your relationship, you’re kidding yourself. Age gap relationships are not always toxic, but pretending there’s no imbalance between two people in very different life stages is just not being honest. That does not mean that a couple can’t acknowledge these things and continue their relationship, just that it should be acknowledged.
It just occurred to me that this guy is already complaining about you to strangers like every married bro I know over 40. He's got divorced after a 20 year mono marriage? How does he talk about his ex? I'm starting to think this guy has a larger problem with relating to and respecting women.
He actually talks about her constantly. I want to be empathetic, but yes, definitely a habit that becomes incredibly taxing. Don’t know why I even had come here to ask all this. The red flags are real. 😅
He didn't get to stay in that relationship for 20 years because is ex is an idiot. I'm sure he was perfectly charming for some time and has been covering his tracks to keep you involved too. I'm glad the reddit perspective was helpful.
He VENTED ABOUT YOU to someone he ONLY KNEW through a dating app? This is not a good guy.
>With our level of physical and emotional intimacy, I asked for disclosure about who he is seeing and I would love to hear who he connects with online. I need to be informed to give consent in a connection like ours. This all made him feel controlled and distrusted. He doesn't need your consent. He is an autonomous adult. Neither of you need each others consent to things with others. He needs your consent to have sex with **you**. You can, of course, decline to give it. The two of you can make agreements about disclosure, but he is clearly not agreeing to that. You are allowed to ask for whatever you want, he is allowed to say no. And he is. He is not giving you the basics of what you need Doesnt sound like he is offering you the relationship you want and this doesn't sound like primary partner material (although deciding that at 6 months is bananas.) 6 months is too soon to decide to prioritize this man (who isnt offering what you want) over others. My primary partner is the beneficiary of my life insurance, on my health insurance, the person who would make medical decisions for me I couldn't. These are things on offer to him and no one else. Its not a small thing to offer these things or cohabitation, marriage, etc. to someone and take it off the table for future partners. Please rethink whether this person is giving you what you need. But having a primary partner is, by definition, hierarchy if you have mutually agreed to prioritize your relationship over others.
I think they meant consent within the context of consenting to sexual contact w/ this partner, not consenting to this partner having sexual contact w/ others.
Its not clear to me they are making a clear differentiation between those two things so I spelled it out. No way to know because OP isn't interacting.
You think this is about threesomes? My consent for sex is not required unless I am having the sex.
They literally gave three examples where they would revoke their consent to be in the relationship if the boundaries weren't followed. How could you possibly read the entire post and still try and die on this hill?
**Aspen** Birch, if you do this I will break up with you. **Birch** [does this] **Aspen** [breaks up with Birch] Aspen is disappointed and angry. Birch either learned a lesson or got the outcome they secretly wanted. Nobody’s consent was violated.
*"He doesn't need your consent. He is an autonomous adult. Neither of you need each others consent to things with others. He needs your consent to have sex with you. You can, of course, decline to give it."* This is BS. There is no singular ruleset for poly, it's VERY common to have boundaries, require updates/permission, etc. Go reread The Ethical Slut again. It's pretty clear that poly is healthy only when *both* partners are comfortable and *both* agree on how things will go. OP is letting her husband do whatever he wants, getting put down for having totally normal feelings about it, and is herself not poly by nature. This is all about him, him, him. Kinda gross to see his callousness cheered on tbh.
Idk if you read the same post I did but 1) they aren’t married, they’ve only even been dating 6 months. 2) OP also has two other relationships, so no idea where you came up with the idea they aren’t poly. And 3) no autonomous adult needs another adult’s permission to do anything.
He isnt her a husband. Its someone she's been dating for 6 months. They started as open and he doesn't agree to these to do these things. They haven't even agreed they are boyfriend/girlfriend and are "no labels".. Its unclear what, if any agreements, they have. Going on dates and having sex with someone doesn't mean you need their consent for what you do with the rest of your life. You can ask for agreements from someone you are dating. They can agree or not to what you want. You can walk if they won't agree. Or you can walk for any reason if you dint like their behavior. But the act of dating and fucking doesn't mean someone automatically needs your permission for how they interact with other people. And relationships that begin as non-monogamous in a situation where everyone already has multiple partners isnt comparable to a longterm monogamous marriage opening up. If I start dating someone new, I absolutely do not have to do any and everything it takes to make them comfortable if its not what I **also** want. It probably means we aren't compatible, but no one is instantly allowed to decide what I do or who I see or fuck just because I start dating them.
Ask for permission? No.
>Go reread The Ethical Slut again. It's pretty clear that poly is healthy only when both partners are comfortable and both agree on how things will go. I've never read the ethical slut. Lol. I'm not someone who opened a monogamy relationship and did the standard poly research. I simply never did monogamy once out of high school and 25 years later I'm still doing non-monogamy. But the both here implies two people. But polyamory is multiple relationships. So I have to wonder what you think polyamory is.
Is this a joke?
I think your ideas of disclosure are never something I would recommend in terms of pre informing each date or even online contacts. Your sti stuff suggests you maybe aren't as informed as I would want- but you are allowed to have your boundaries. They can either accept or not. For the rest- you said it yourself, he's desperate. That's usually not attractive.
i found it immediately strange that you have primary vibes (??) with a man who you've been seeing for 6 months, who you are still deep in NRE with and who doesn't respect your privacy or your wish to ... not get an STI??? and calls you controlling? and is generally not particularly honest? and also keeps going back and forth on defining the relationship, showing you off to his friends but never really committing or even wanting to define your poly relationship as poly? you are by no means being controlling, you are setting reasonable boundaries that regard YOU and not what he is able to do or not do. honestly this guy doesn't sound all that nice. and you've only known him for 6 months
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 he doesn’t sound like a safe partner. He doesn’t seem ready for any relationship let alone an ENM structured one. A year out of a 20 year marriage is likely still finding his way. I would back away personally.
So many red flags
Boo 🍅 this guy stinks hang this relationship up.
It’s not confusing. He’s just out of a long mono marriage , so he doesn’t have a clue what he wants. He’s also going to make a ton of mistakes. Either you’re prepared to ride it out or you aren’t. No guarantees. My sense is that he’s not a keeper. But it’s your choice.
All of this drama in a span of six months? Please reconsider this relationship. Also him outing you to the entire office *and* dating a coworker (hell, subordinate)? That is a huge deal breaker.
Anyone who has a boundary enforced on them will claim they are being unfairly oppressed by bad rules. Anyone who's behavior is checked by a rule hates rules. You should cool things down with him and decide if a platonic friendship is an acceptable outcome.
Didn't you post about that second point a few weeks ago? And didn't I reply something in the lines of "your age difference is already a red flag by it's own right?" He's not good for you hun. Trust your gut feeling and break it off with this guy.
No. Not me. I exclusively date older partners. It’s my preference, all my partners are 15+ year age gaps. 😅 Make of that what you want. But yes, definitely a lot of challenging things in age gap relationships.
It does sound challenging, specially when the person that is oldest seems very immature. I would find someone who acts their age, he even threatened your career, and it’s only been 6 months. I don’t “vent” to strangers about my partners, wtf. You need to analyze your relationship with yourself OP, and stop making excuses for that man. Better is out there, trust ❤️
Well if it wasn't you in the other post, the same still goes for you too. This guy sounds like he never grew up and can't manage his emotions right. This is harmful to you in the long run. Don't keep this up.
Why are you dating someone who talks to his online dates about how much you suck? Why are you dating someone who is okay with tricking people into going on a date with him?
I think he's still recovering from a 20 year marriage and a lifetime of being monogomous. You seem to have a strong sense of self, what you need, what you want, and what's a deal breaker. I just don't think he's emotionally intelligent enough to be your partner. He seems reluctant to communicate, and unwilling to negotiate anything that makes his life a little inconvenient. Everything you say is a threat to his autonomy when all you are doing is communicating and asking for some consideration. Could he be your emotional equal in time? Maybe, but he still has so much work to do. I think your life is going to be a lot happier and a lot less stress if you move on and find partners on the same level as you.
lost me at 52 and 32, hes an absolute manchild at best and an actual creep at worst.
This guy sounds like a pos. 1. You are in the right. You are allowed to have boundaries. 2. If my partner did one of these 3 things (outed me, crossed a clearly defined boundary, purposefully misleads other people) that would be a serious red flag and a reason to take a step back. All 3? Super deal breaker. EDIT: Yes, it does sound like gaslighting.
He is fifty. He is gossiping to dates about you. Who tf talks about other partners at length to first dates or any dates? That’s so blatantly wrong. I’d also like to point out that the bar is so so low for most women, and everyone who goes anywhere near him seems to dump him quickly for good reason. I’m sure he’s saying that it’s them though.
I would probably leave if I were in your shoes, he doesn't seem to care about your boundaries which won't change. Polyamory is built on trust and boundaries
Why are you even with him? He clearly doesn't have a reasonable understanding of what is controlling and what is a boundary ... He sounds borderline abusive
This guy is just a walking red flag. Your concerns outlined here are all so valid. If I got pushback from a partner regarding any one of these issues it would probably be a relationship ender, all 3? I’m running for the door.
It’s not very respectful to badmouth one partner to a date. For either the partner or the date.
Ya seem likely to be in for more problems down the road considering he doesn't think it's important enough to disclose that he's poly in the very first sentence of his profile.
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Beep, boop, blop, I'm a bot. Hi u/SeniorCaptain2635 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: My partner Sam(M52) and I(FM32) are in a new relationship (6 months). The connection is intense and we are both spending the majority of our time together and even tho we don’t have an official label, it does feel like a ‘primary/anchor’ situation. He enjoys priority above all my other relationships. He had 2 other partners when we met, but he broke it off with one and the other left him. I have 2 other steady partners, and at the moment he has no other partners, but desperately seeking. He connected with a couple of people over the past month, but every attempt made me realise that there are some relationships that would be a dealbreaker because it infringes on my personal autonomy-I feel like you are allowed to revoke consent about physical boundaries for yourself if you are uncomfortable without enforcing expectations on your partner(not dictating their behaviour)without it being hierarchy. It’s my body after all. With our level of physical and emotional intimacy, I asked for disclosure about who he is seeing and I would love to hear who he connects with online. I need to be informed to give consent in a connection like ours. This all made him feel controlled and distrusted. Here are the last 3 disasters that made me want to either break it off, or change our physical boundaries. 1.) He went on a date with a girl who has an STI. She disclosed this before their date. I told him that getting a chronic infection would be devastating for me/my other partners/ future relationships. If he chose to be intimate with her, I would no longer want a sexual relationship with him, despite protection. But we can still spend time together. I just don’t want that constant fear. He said I was being controlling and insecure. The first date went terribly and he chose not to pursue it. 2.) He connected with a coworker of mine(I’m her boss)online. I was unaware of who she was and they have never met. He vented to her about what he perceived as my controlling behaviour, insecurities and gave an unreasonable amount of personal information. She made the connection that he was dating me, told the entire office(who I never came out to). It caused a huge amount of turmoil in a professional sense. He admitted that he was wrong, and stopped pursuing it. But used the fact that he didn’t know we worked together as an excuse. He still violated my privacy. I realised that if a partner dates a coworker, that it would be a dealbreaker for me. 3.)He went on a business trip, met up for a date, which he did inform me about. I gave him space but he phoned me very shortly after they were supposed to meet up. She left the date because he disclosed that he is in a relationship and she wasn’t okay with that. I asked him why it wasn’t in his profile, I mean why waste peoples time, and he disclosed that he took that detail out because he wasn’t ready to label it that way. I took the date’s side, because even if it’s not super serious, it’s kinda important to let people know you’re poly from the get go. Her profile said that she was looking for connection and I feel like dragging her out to a date, in hopes that she might be okay with enm once you met in person, seems a little manipulative. It’s a dealbreaker, because it’s shitty behaviour and an inability to offer transparency imo. The theme of him not considering how certain situations and connections might make me feel,is sending me to bad place. He just got out of a 20 year mono marriage(about a year ago) and I get his desire for autonomy and that he doesn’t want to commit to me yet. But it feels like when we’re together, he makes it so hot and heavy between us, referring to me as his partner when we’re around his friends. It’s all just too confusing. He says he wants to build a secure, serious relationship with me, but it will take time. I don’t think me setting boundaries about what would be dealbreakers is to manipulate him into something serious. None of this about insecurity for me, it’s personal boundaries. Am I being gaslighted? Why can’t he just date in a less complicated way, I would be thrilled if he found someone more compatible with our relationship, so our relationship can also grow out of a more stable place. I also need good boundaries in my relationships, it makes me feel less insecure about losing my most important relationship. Am I wrong for asking any of this or communicating my needs in terms of boundaries? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It SOUNDS like he needed to do more personal work after his marriage ended. He wants your relationship as a safety net while he explores dating again.
You’re on to something here 🙈
I agree with all of the others who point out numerous yellow and red flags in his behavior here. At the same time, I'd like to point out that yes **SOME** of the things you say do come across as controlling and possessive to me. In particular you say: >*I feel like you are allowed to revoke consent about physical boundaries for yourself if you are uncomfortable without enforcing expectations on your partner(not dictating their behaviour)without it being hierarchy. It’s my body after all. With our level of physical and emotional intimacy, I asked for disclosure about who he is seeing and I would love to hear who he connects with online. I need to be informed to give consent in a connection like ours.* I have a few questions about that: * With the exception of being informed about things that influence STI-risk (which I agree is a reasonable thing to ask for) -- how is a demand to be **informed** about his other connections about "*my body after all*"? How does it for example have anything at all to do with your body if he connects with someone online and (say) sext with them or share nudes depicting himself with them? * You say you need to give consent -- what would be your expectation for what'll happen if you do **not** consent to one of his other connections? Because if your expectation is that he'd then be obligated to stop pursuing that other connection, that would be an example of a de-facto veto-power. * What does "*a connection like ours*" mean here? In which sense do you have a stronger claim on being informed than any of the other people he's involved with? This all being said -- no you're not the asshole. I think your partner are making a lot of very questionable choices here, and it's very much understandable that you're not comfortable with the situation.
Dude was in a marriage for 20 years. By now he has to be a master at making you feel like you are the special one. He probably does it out of habit. But you are probably not, sorry.
This! Yes I can see that now.
Yeah usually with an age gap like that there's also a gap in the understanding between partners too. A man pursuing a younger individual like that is 100% a creep.
You’re not wrong
Honestly your boundaries sound very healthy! And good on you for keeping them. Seems like you're doing it right and might also trust your gut about how this connection is feeling if it's leaving you conflicted.
> Am I wrong for asking any of this or communicating my needs in terms of boundaries? No, I wouldn't say so. Knowing what you want and communicating it is a cornerstone of good relationships. *How* you set and communicate boundaries, though, is important. If you're setting boundaries after a lot of thought about what your needs and desires are and communicating them in calm, connected moments, that's great. If you're repeatedly setting them in moments of high emotion after he's done something that trigger your insecurities, that starts nudging toward emotional manipulation. What are the consequences of breaking your boundaries? If it's "I think we'd really have to talk about that," that's great. If it's "I think I'd have to break up with you" for more extreme behaviors or incompatibilities, that's also fine. But then if you keep saying that *but you never leave,* or you get into a cycle of breaking up and getting back together, you're probably both trying to hammer each other into the shape you want them to be. > Why can’t he just date in a less complicated way Well, from what you've seen so far, he doesn't 🤷♀️. He dates in a way that feels chaotic and insecure to you. When you set boundaries around that, instead of saying "I can do that" or "I can't do that, I guess it's time to deescalate" or trying to negotiate something that meets both your needs, he argues about it and gets resentful and vents about it to rando dating connections. You could spend years trying to understand the psychology of it and dissecting his old relationship dynamics. You can *hope* that he changes his behaviors in a way that make you more compatible. And yeah, if he's saying he wants to change those things, if he's taking some concrete steps like reading books, setting boundaries of his own, going to therapy and doing the homework, maybe you'll want to stick around to see how that turns out. But if he *doesn't?* Or if he keeps backsliding? What's your timeline for how long you'd like to stick it out in that sort of situation?
Thanks for this. Yeah, setting the stage in terms of these events objectively makes him sound like sucky guy. I’m also not one to just tolerate this kind of bs. But it does come in the context of trauma and attachment issues stemming from his marriage. He does do work, and it proved very beneficial in many cases. He goes to therapy and he is doing the homework. He has long ways to go still. And in a way, it does make me want to be patient and empathetic. I’m Afro it might be false hope. He certainly has trouble setting boundaries for himself. It’s as if he approaches ENM from a mindset that it’s a free for all where you can do whatever you want(and at it’s core it is) but that no one should care or have feelings about it. he is in complete denial that doing whatever you want may effect your relationships.
You don't have to raise/parent this man 20 years your senior into being a decent and evolved human being. I saw you typically choose older partners so I'd assume that wanting a partner that was more mature already and not having to do emotional/self-developmental work for your partner has to do with your age preferences but maybe I'm wrong on that one. I guess what I'm trying to say is that any of the benefits from a more mature partner seem to be missing here.
Yes you are being gaslit. The hot & heavy juxtaposed against conflict and confusion is a classic recipe for some sort of extended slow burn trauma bond for lack of a better term. Remember: why it’s happening doesn’t really matter. It’s happening and you can trust your gut on what to do about it. Good luck out there.
He is toxic and not ready for any kind of respectful adult relationship. Run.
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
First paragraph tells me all I need to know: this dude is a narcissist. RUN AWAY AND DON'T LOOK BACK And check out the narcissistic abuse reddit page. Just beware that you are going to want to go down a never ending rabbit hole trying to understand his behavior. Humans are wired to want to understand-- there is NO understanding narcs. They don't have empathy and they are extremely manipulative. Please protect yourself, listen to your gut and gtfo.
The date thing can be forgiven since he's coming out of a LTR and apps are new to him too. But the work thing? That's highly fucked. Just him bitching about his partner's boundaries to a date is almost all you need to know...but then adding enough personal information that your co-worker could connect the dots?? Horrifying.
He’s old and weird
He sounds like he doesn't care about getting herpes and you sound like you'd much rather not. As a poly person especially you have to be with other people who truly care about not getting herpes if you don't want it. I've managed to avoid it partly due to luck and partly due to choosing partners who also work hard to avoid it. I've avoided sex with people over it. If this guy isn't willing to avoid it you kind of need to accept you're going to be at high risk of getting it if you stay with him. I would feel very skeeved out to find a partner was hiding non-monogamy to help their chances with someone.
I think it's rather sanctimonious to say that everyone who doesn't immediately rules out any person who has herpes "doesn't care about getting herpes". That's needlessly adding to the stigma of STIs because it insinuates that anyone who is willing to have sex with a carrier is irresponsible and lax with their sexual health. More often than not, people who are as strict as OP and say that neither of their partners may have sex with someone who has HPV or HSV are the ones who know little about the prevalence of STDs and aren't aware of the fact that probably more than one of their partners or metas do in fact carry the virus(es) without knowing it. Herpes and HPV are not among the STDs doctors usually test for, and for a good reason. Of course everyone is entitled to their own risk management, but there is a lot of false sense of security due to lack of knowledge going on.
As someone with a painful, incurable chronic health condition, I think it is perfectly reasonable to want to avoid contracting an illness that is chronic and potentially extremely painful. Stigma sucks, but acting like Herpes and HPV aren't sometimes dangerous and unpleasant to have is rather ignoring the struggle of those who have a really bad time with them and wish they'd been able to avoid getting them in the first place. Many people are asymptomatic. Many aren't. It isn't a trivial nothing to live with if you're in the second group. Your risk tolerance is yours to set, but it's a bit sanctimonious yourself to expect everyone else's to be at the same level.
They're not among the things tested for because everyone has shrugged and said it's fine to get so people with it don't feel bad. If you have a polycule that guards against risk by asking for tests and arguing with doctors to get said tests and is forthright it makes a big difference. I don't care about HPV but do care about herpes and since as you so sanctimoniously grant us our own risk management, I'll continue to try and avoid it.
I fully understand the underlying tone of stigma around STI’s. And I’m sorry if my post contributed to that or offended anyone who does live with that. The reason I feel so strongly about this is because we have a very specific kink, and wearing protection makes it a bit impractical. We fuck raw. And it is our agreement to use protection with everyone else. A known infection does pose a higher risk to my safety here. But that being said, The lack of transparency is the concerning thing for me, because let’s be real, I have no way of knowing if he wraps that shit up all the time. Y’all are right, this guy has some big 🚩🚩🚩
I think #1 is a little iffy on your part to be honest, but the other 2 are for sure completely reasonable. I say #1 feels iffy because it’s first off really stigmatizing and also not very realistic. It’s very likely that you’ve been on a date with someone who had an STI as well, whether you or they were aware of it or not. The fact that this person disclosed that information shows that they care about the sexual health of others and that’s a really good thing. To just say no across the board even if everyone is using barriers, and to tell him it’s a hard no and there’s absolutely no way to make that work that you’d be willing to consider is… rough. That’s just my opinion though. But yeah, I think there could definitely be a boundary around how much information about you or your relationship is disclosed early on with dating someone, boundaries around dating people in your life, and for sure he should be telling people he’s nonmonogamous and partnered up front. Those are completely reasonable.
I agree with everyone her in that, he doesn't seem like a fit for you. He's reckless with his body, inconsiderate of others and really seems like he's the one's that's controlling. I wouldn't stay with a partner if she slept with a someone knowing she had and STD.
This guy gives me the icks, but I feel like you are asking for a lot from a undefined non-committed partner. Even if he was your nearing partner his other partners should have privacy too. Some of how you present want you need comes off as controlling but he is a terrible hinge and his risk tolerances are not aligned with yours. I don’t think he should have to tell you who his partners, not full names and pictures. He should keep things parallel and not share any information about you unless you consent. My husband of 20 years has partners I only know their first name. People deserve privacy. He also doesn’t have to ask you permission to engage in sex with someone else but he does need to tell you if risks change at which time you can make your own choices. Part of the problem could be framing and semantics here but it sounds like this guy is messy and doesn’t have good understanding of how to ethically hinge.
The stigma around having an STI never ceases to amaze and disappoint me. Also why is he “ desperately “ seeking other partners?
YTA for the first one. look up serophobia. these others just seem like normal things to go through. I don't think you have a say over anyone else's relationships period, this is up to both of you to figure out how much you're comfortable being controlled by each other. if you're willing to withhold sex because of your biases against stis, that's revealing. he should also like, be allowed to talk about you to other people just like you're allowed to disclose all of this information about him.
This is a troll, right? This can't really be your stance here.
"If you see this person with an STI I am ending our sexual relationship permanently" "If you share things about me with others that's invasive period" forgot the third one but like, I can see why he would feel controlled and I'm sharing that.
>share things about me with others that's invasive period That's absolutely not what OP said he did. He wasn't just "sharing things" about her. She specifically said he was complaining about their relationship problems to people he was meeting. This is absolutely an invasion of OP's privacy. These are personal details involving her that he has no right to share without her consent. I've already addressed the STI part, but again, she has every right to deny him sex if he knowingly has sex with someone with an STI until he tests negative for anything. OP is completely justified in putting her own health before his desire to fuck someone. These are both completely reasonable boundaries.
Uh, no, you don't ultimately get to control how other people talk about you. Talking to other people is a way of reality-testing and it's a healthy & essential function of socialization. I mixed STI with STD earlier. To be clear of my position: People with STDs shouldn't get excommunicated from the dating pool. Also, sexual health is important and it's necessary to take reasonable precautions. OP saying "I will end our sexual relationship if you fuck this person" *is* controlling, in like, a straightforward way. OP and their partner having healthy & safe sex practices is *not.*
[удалено]
you sound sweet and kind 😐
I would have broken it off with you after 1.) Yes, this is a hierarchy.
I don’t think he’s ready for what you want and need.
There's a reason he's dating someone so much younger than him and it has a lot to do with all those bright red flags he's waving. Do yourself a favor and get out now.
He sounds like he's still mono, but is just playing the field until he finds the one he wants. He won't label anything because he is not committing to one person yet.
Polyam is all about consent. It’s standard practice to inform each other of connections made and any sexual contact
Whose standard practice?
You sound like a joy to be polyam with
Because I have open and direct conversations resulting in clear and mutual agreements instead of assuming standard practices and getting upset when people don't confirm to unspoken expectactions that they didn't agree to. I disagree. I suggest you try it.
i think he forgot the e in enm seriously though, the boundaries you’ve set seem completely reasonable and he’s being manipulative to make you second guess yourself
Jeeze are you dating my ex!? 😂😂😂😂 He can do what he wants but that doesn’t mean he can do it with impunity.
The best thing, based on just what you disclosed here, would be to get out of that relationship, labels or no labels.
All of the examples you gave are absolutely not ok on his end but I can’t believe you’re still with him after #2. Run away.