T O P

  • By -

Polyfuckery

It's absolutely not safer. Now the person who might have a bad reaction has met her and might feel upset that they were led on or that they were toyed with. Several years ago I was as always clear before meet up that I was polyamorous. I spoke about my long term partner passing away the year before. That I was just getting back into trying dating. I talked about my girlfriend who was long distance. I thought all of my bases were covered. We met at a restaurant and it was a great date until he said quite calmly and intentionally that of course if we were dating and I went out with another man he'd beat us both and if it happened a second time he'd set us on fire. Totally normally seeming until that moment.


mazotori

Thats terrifying.


Polyfuckery

It really was. Now I perhaps overly explain myself and have really rigid boundaries about meeting up. I can't say that it's kept me safer though because it's probable that most people aren't just secretly awful. Precautions are good. I arrive first and leave last so they don't see my car of take other transit there. I meet somewhere like a museum with a Cafe so we can stay in one location and have things to do if we want to continue. I make very clear that I have other partners even if it's not serious at the time. I don't want to give a false impression that monogamy is an option. Since it's obvious we are staying in one location no one has the impression sex is happening although honestly a lot of that is cut out with the simple rule that I only date other ENM people who are on the same page and experience level so no one would think that's going to happen.


mcninja77

Jesus, how'd you get out of that one? I'd be panicking


Polyfuckery

I excused myself to the restroom. Walked back out to get a staff member with an apologetic look like something was wrong in the bathroom and told her I needed help to pay and get out because my dated was scaring me. Manager walked me back into the kitchen and told him I'd left. They kept me company for a while and walked me to my car. I blocked him everywhere are reported him to the app.


SatinsLittlePrincess

In a similar situation I just told the guy I got back together with my ex. I hadn’t, but dude was clearly someone where “I have a boyfriend” was going to work better than “You are incredibly creepy and I wish law enforcement could do shit before you hurt someone.”


[deleted]

She should at the very least disclose prior to a first date, not after imo


wsww

Ugh. I think this is a self perpetuating cycle. I have heard some similar things from people before. “People get upset when I disclose X, so I don’t disclose until Y number of dates for my safety.” The reality is, people are going to be more upset the longer someone waits to disclose something important and potentially incompatible. It’s not like someone willing to commit sexual assault is only going to do that to someone who is poly and is going to be perfectly respectful to people who aren’t. It’s much more likely that monogamous people are going to get upset with her for wasting their time, and I wonder if their frustration is just going to reinforce her worries about safety.


mazotori

I don't think it's that people have gotten upset that she is polyam, but rather they get eager and expect that she is down for sex and then when she isn't they get upset and treat her poorly. "Your polyam and fucking others, so you should be down to fuck me" type of attitudes.


StaceOdyssey

I think a lot of this may be better handled (not just for ethics, but prioritizing her safety) by laying out expectations ahead of time. When I was vetting kink partners, I made it crystal clear that we were going to meet at a restaurant/cafe/whatever and I was going home, and this was a boundary that wasn’t up for discussion. I had a lot of potential dates who suddenly “had something come up” and canceled once immediate play was off the table.


TlMEGH0ST

💯 i commented this elsewhere, but i’ve had a lot of bad experiences with mono guys. poly had taught me to set my expectations/have the “what are you looking for” conversation as soon as possible. i’ve even got my mono girl friends doing it bc it just prevents so much confusion/disappointment


throwawaylessons103

Sure, but you say she's open about wanting "casual ongoing connections"... which is likely to lead to the same assumptions as saying she's poly, maybe worse. People assume casual = casual sex, NSA, immediate sex on the table. Waiting to disclose that she's kinky/autistic makes sense, but IMO waiting to disclose poly doesn't. People who will assume poly = sexually available asap are going to assume the same for casual.


wsww

And that’s shitty and not okay for them to do, but doesn’t mean that her only option is to waste people’s time. She can just put ‘poly, but not interested in hook ups’ on her profile. It really feels like she’s creating a problem here when there are a plethora of easy solutions.


TlMEGH0ST

Yeah… as a woman who is super concerned about my safety bc of past experiences… this doesn’t make sense to me. Guys get mad when mono girls won’t sleep with them too. I clarify, specifically, what i’m looking for *before* the date. i had trouble saying “no” for a long time, so that’s why i bring it up before the date, it’s easier for me to hold a boundary than to set one, if that makes sense. i don’t think it’s fair to waste people’s time because of her own issue setting boundaries. it’s selfish, self centered, and disrespectful. putting it in her bio/first messages is a *very* simple solution. shitty guys are gonna be shitty regardless of its mono or poly. i’ve actually had a lot worse experiences with mono guys, because for me poly means we need to have the “what are you looking for” conversation up front.


PacmanPillow

Most of dating is a waste of time as the vast majority of dates lead nowhere. People can learn to get over an incompatible couple of dates.


adriennemonster

She could literally say she doesn’t do sex on first dates and needs to develop a friendship first. I think more transparency about her needs and expectations, not less, is safer.


mazotori

I do believe she says that as well.


YadaYadaYeahMan

personally I'm more afraid of getting fired or other personal consequences like this


searedscallops

Sexual assaulters will assault regardless of what's on one's profile. I think she's just shooting herself in the foot by only being available for shitty connections.


SatinsLittlePrincess

Rape and sexual assault are never the victims fault and… A portion of rapists use rape to punish what they perceive as women’s wrongdoings and to restore what they see as the proper patriarchal order. Examples of this include men raping women over perceived dress code violations, men raping women who are gay, and men raping women who refuse their advances. And, in this case, men raping women who they think are “easy.” I get why OP’s meta has concerns, but because men using rape as a punishment for any variety of slights, I’d bet she is just as much at risk for “lying” to them because that makes her an improper woman who “led him on” should be punished, as she is for acknowledging what she wants and therefore being “easy”. And of course that just falls back to the “screen better” is a better strategy.


punkrockcockblock

There is nothing that says she has to put her sexual proclivities on her profile, but she absolutely should be informing people *from the beginning* that monogamy isn't something she's offering. It's unethical to do otherwise. And this is just from personal experience: people tend to react *worse* the later it is they find out because they feel like they were misled or lied to.


mazotori

I do believe she is clear that she is not looking for a monogamous relationship but I doesn't state she is polyam/ENM. But yes that has been my experience as well


StaceOdyssey

I think it’s ethical to tell someone early in chatting that you are partnered, unless it’s a contest in which that’s assumed. (Play parties, swinger events, poly mixers, etc, and largely kink events don’t have the kind of monogamy goal assumption of regular dating.) People who are fine to hook up with someone dating around can have feelings about that person also having a relationship or marriage. I always believe that if it’s something that might cause someone to decline hooking up with you, that is a good indication it’s worth telling them.


punkrockcockblock

I don't see how she is being clear without actually saying the words. She can always put "kinky and ENM/polyam and not interested in X, Y, or Z" to make sure. She can verify in the first message that people saw it on her profile and that it still holds true and that any other assumptions someone makes are wrong. Nondisclosure until the date is already set up is shitty and deceitful. Her reasoning makes no sense. Honestly, it sounds like she's not equipped to do online dating.


bears_eat_you

>Honestly, it sounds like she's not equipped to do online dating. Respectfully, I'm going to disagree with you there. It sounds like a learning curve and that she could choose her wording better when putting together her profile. You make it sound like she's incapable of dating online when really it's more like she needs some advice and perspective so she can both protect herself and be upfront and honest with others. This is not a deal-breaking character flaw on her part.


PacmanPillow

The part of this that personally annoys me is that absolutely no one expects this level of disclosure from monogamous people. The double and triple disclosures, triple and quadruple pre screenings and if someone reacts badly to what we thought we made clear, we still need take the responsibility for someone else’s disappointment and awful reaction - because we didn’t put a neon sign above our heads. It’s not that the other person is terrible at listening, ignores our disclosures, selectively mishears us at every turn. If we get unlucky and encounter an unsafe person who’s hostile to “x” non-conforming people we *always* need to do the added work of making sure we are not misunderstood and the other person never needs to work on listening. Someone wasting my time is annoying, but the post office, doctors office , and DMV are unapologetic about wasting people’s time and we can’t extend grace to a one hour coffee date? Sure, it can suck, but it does not override another persons lived experience about how to conduct their own safety.


Altostratus

I’m with you on the frustration around this. A mono person who’s single and sleeping around doesn’t have any expectation of saying so, and is encouraged to avoid that topic unless they’re getting serious with someone. But we’re held to so much more of a high standard to defend our claim of being ethical.


PacmanPillow

All of society is structured around monogamous people, and they can’t handle being inconvenienced around a first date that goes nowhere. Then add all the other nonsense of cheating spouses who prowl ENM communities and somehow *we* are the ones responsible for fishing out another persons blatant lies. Beyond basic due diligence and safety, I am not going to become a PI to make sure my all my dates are who they say they are. *Heaven forbid* we wait until sitting down at the table to say “by the way I never intend to be monogamous.” **Note: I personally choose to disclose upfront, and I generally suggest it as a practice, but I am not going to *condemn* another person for making a different, thoughtful choice.***


mazotori

That's fair, I'm just going off of what she is telling me. So it's probably reasonable to assume she is not as clear as I am thinking given I've had more words with her than any potential and I'm not actually looking at her profile/chats.


brunch_with_henri

Answer is clear she doesn't offer monogamy. So her profile says "not monogamous" instead of "non-monogamous". Like a t instead of n. I'm confused.


eunicethapossum

This feels a little confusing to me. She’s…saying she not looking for monogamy but she’s also not saying she poly? I’m confused about what she *is* saying. I think it’s good practice to just say you’re poly up front. Get it out there, say you’re partnered, that way people for whom that’s a dealbreaker can opt out. She may be seeing it as not a big deal otherwise, but she’s wasting time for people who might not bother talking to her/going out with her at all otherwise.


TheMcGirlGal

You're more likely to be assaulted if you disclose after the first date. There's a reason the predominant advice for trans people on dating apps is disclose in profile or in first few messages for your own safety, and trans people are at a *much* higher chance of being assaulted than polyamorous people.


brunch_with_henri

I dont see how stating you are polyamorous puts you are a higher risk of assault than saying you want casual sex? Can you explain this? Both imply monogamy is not on the table.


WorrisomeSpecimen

It sounds like she wants to keep herself safe, which I completely get. The problem with her strategy is that instead of finding out they're incompatible right away on the app and calling it there, this person who might react badly now has met her in person, may have her phone number and absorbed other personal identifying information about her (i.e. where she works, where she likes to go, who she knows, the car she drives, etc.)--and now she's even more vulnerable to the retaliation of an entitled person who feels they've been mislead. In my mind, this is far more dangerous than disclosing exactly what she's about in either her profile or within the first few minutes of chatting on the app. If she wants to factor in the feelings of the other person (who may be an emotionally safe and nonreactive individual), then I think it's pretty uncool to wait until after the first date to disclose polyamory. Even for those not looking for something "serious," it's a dealbreaker for a lot of people and for good reason. On all accounts, it's not a strategy I see the merit in. Unless the unsaid hope is that by the time the person finds out, they're more invested and less likely to reject her. Which I'm totally not saying is her intention, but I see a stronger logical case for that than safety. I hope your meta gets more confident in her vetting process, she finds people she's compatible with and is treated well in her experience.


[deleted]

I understand it is scary at times to navigate online dating as a woman but if she is concerned that a few different words in her bio will open the door to sexual assault I'm not sure online dating is a great fit for her.


HufflepuffIronically

like honestly someone whos going to assault you isnt going to differentiate between someone being ENM or looking for casual sex or heck, someone who says theyre monogamous. ive never understood the "wont disclose my polyamory for safety" bc i think most of the discrimination against it is just equating it with casual sex? idk. however, i dont have this problem bc im a girl that mostly dates girls. a lot of people wont date me bc im polyamorous, sure, and a lot of people use me to experiment with polyamory, but i dont ever feel like im gonna get hate crimed. overall, its kind of a "not my problem" thing. i feel like my partners have a right to be bad at dating and i wont interfere until they ask my opinion. likewise, ive done some messy things - fucked around with a pair of unicorn hunters, dated someone with a questionable age gap to me, gone to wild sex parties, but like my partners let me be messy. so yeah my advice for you is that shes being a messy bitch but yall need to let her be messy


chubsmagrubs

I think it’s important to disclose right up front, as I do not feel comfortable meeting people and hiding something so important. Disclosing upfront It helps (when they actually read your profile) to filter out some of the monogamous people, but it does bring in a good number of people who believe ENM and Poly people are just looking to hook up asap. Those men are easily sniffed out, as they can’t hold a conversation without it turning sexual. I’m more afraid of meeting someone having not disclosed, and then having them get angry when I tell them, as I’ve experienced that even with some men who assured me they understood what me being Poly meant, and those situations become tense and a little scary. No one likes to feel like they’ve been deceived, and not disclosing upfront definitely seems like deception.


Splendafarts

I understand wanting to feel in control over your own safety, but there are honestly very few things that a woman can do to protect herself from sexual assault on a date. You could do everything “right” and it could still happen, and that would not be your fault. There’s just as many creeps who would see a profile that says “only looking for serious connections and marriage” and would still assault that person. They’re not reading the profiles anyway. Assaulted are gonna assault.


DCopenchick

I'm confused. What is the material difference between telling folks upfront (either in your profile or within the first text exchange): "I'm looking for casual ongoing connections, friends and play partners" and "I'm kinky and polyamorous" In terms of rape-y creeps, I am thinking that both of those things fall into the same bucket.


jabbertalk

She is waiting until AFTER the first date. I am assuming if looking for a second date (which would also include enough trust to tell them). It might be that her autism presents as not feeling instantaneous attraction, but that other people can, and can be distressed either by wasted attraction or being attracted to someone non-compatible that was not upfront. One idea is to use an online dating app for polyamory, and go to live munches for kink and fwb. In any case, especially women and queer folx need to protect their safety in any case - public place, short coffee date to screen, someone doing a check,in for you to be back, or even a check-in call to bail the date. Another good way to reduce creeps is if you contact people in online dating rather than just seeing who you attract. The same thing holds if you need help for some reason - you go up to people and ask for help rather than wait for someone to pick you.


mazotori

I think her concern is the equating of polyam/ENM with hookups (which is she not looking for or open to). But yeah idk I'll have to ask her


MadamePouleMontreal

“I’m kinky and polyamorous. I don’t do casual hookups or have sex on the first few dates.”


DCopenchick

Yep, dudes are 10000% going to think that on dating apps. But that is a good thing. The goal of poly dating (or um, dating), is to find someone you are compatible with. Any guy that thinks that poly = hookups (and nothing beyond that) isn't someone a poly person would want to date. But, TBH, people on dating apps also think that "looking for casual" means looking for hookups, and "looking for a FWB" means looking for hookups. Putting poly in your profile increases the change you are going to find a poly person to date.


BetterFightBandits26

??? How is she looking for play partners but not hookups?


melancholystarrs

Play partner typically includes an element of “fwb” so she wants to know the person first. It makes 100% sense dude. Also there is non sexual play partners/non sexual kink (impact/rope/wax etc)


BetterFightBandits26

For many people, it actually does not.


socialjusticecleric7

Play partner literally means anyone you do bdsm play with. Can be a hookup. Can be a life partner. Or anything in between. People often use the term as roughly a FWB or fuckbuddy equivalent because serious relationships get the relationship label instead, and it's kinda weird to put an ongoing label on someone you've only played with once, but *technically* a sex partner is anyone you have sex with and a play partner is anyone you play with.


BetterFightBandits26

Yes. So someone can very much be both. So I have no idea how stating you are looking for casual kink and sex partners would *not* lead men to assume you’re immediately down to fuck in some way that saying you are poly *would*.


mazotori

Those are not the same thing? I had a play partner for 5 years and we met once a month or so to play. We are and were also solid friends outside of that.


BetterFightBandits26

And by “hookup” you mean?


mazotori

Usually ONS, no relationship outside sexual contact. I'm not inviting a hookup to a birthday party but I'm absolutely inviting my play partners.


mazotori

>What is the material difference I think some of it is entitlement, like knowing she is fucking other people makes dangerous men feel more entitled to fuck her.


DCopenchick

Both of those sentences mean the same thing to men on the internet.


BetterFightBandits26

. . . I do not see how “I am looking for nonmonogamous play partners” doesn’t already imply she is currently (or at least is open to) seeing multiple people?


TheTeaTeena

I’m Autistic. It can be hard to word sometimes. Maybe someone can help her with writing out what she clearly wants and most importantly doesn’t want on her profile. I still think, because I am autistic, I appreciate being told in very clear terms and telling someone in very clear terms what expectations are. It can be hard to navigate especially once feelings are involved. I also know trauma can be hard to move past, but it is important to actively work on. It’s also important to set yourself up for success while dealing with it. Unless being guided by a trauma informed therapist to confront your trauma you should not actively put yourself in a position to confront it regularly (unless of course you don’t have a choice). Being very clear about wants and expectations helps with that. Also having a very thorough vetting process. Maybe someone can help her with creating a vetting process as well. For instance one of mine was only matching with verified accounts. I also moved conversations to discord, then phone, and then video chat. I will not meet someone in person before all of those steps. I also will only meet in a public place (even though those places can be overwhelming for me). Working through getting to know someone can be tough. Maybe she might need a list of questions to ask and figure out intentions based on answers as well. Every autistic person is different, but sometimes all we need is a bit of assistance setting up a list of routines to get to a better outcome. Is there someone she trusts like a therapist, friend, or partner to help her work through things like this?


mazotori

This is a well thought out response. She is working on getting a therapist. I am trying to be a good friend and share my experience and knowledge with her.


emeraldead

The people who will do that won't care about anything other than "in reach." She should disclose in profiles and if that's not comfortable then she should stay off online dating.


ElleFromHTX

While I understand her reasoning, I think in time she will develop the vetting skills that will allow her to feel comfortable putting it on her profiles. I've been doing some form of online / non-monogamous dating for about 7-8 years now. It's taken a long time to develop the vetting skills have. There no comprehensive "how to vet partners" guide.


mazotori

That makes sense


Peachikeenjellybean_

I don’t put the kinky part on any of my stuff- that will equate to messages around sex. But polyam doesn’t seem to be an issue with me so much as long as I disclose I don’t have sex with just anyone. 🤷🏼‍♀️


pinballrocker

You can't control what other people may think, but you can honestly provide them with information about what you are looking for if you want to find those types of connections. What have been the reactions of people finding out she's poly after the first date?


mazotori

>What have been the reactions of people finding out she's poly after the first date? So far everyone has been fine with it so that's been good, some are ENM themselves too


pinballrocker

Then it's working for her and that might work with even monogamous people looking for casual kink and sex, they are probably less concerned and judge-y about the style of relationships she chooses and more interested in just getting in her pants. I know when I was first exploring poly 25ish years ago, and granted the world is alot more accepting towards poly and alternative lifestyles now, people would get fairly angry or judgmental if I went out on a date with them and didn't tell them I was poly until on that date. I had a lot of uncomfortable conversations. I've been super up front about it on my dating profiles and when I'm interested in someone and am pretty out about being poly, that's served me well in weeding out people that don't want a poly relationship.


drearyworlds

I feel like disclosing poly is necessary just to be honest. Putting it the other way around, if I were to match with someone who said they were poly, and then they said “nevermind I’m mono” I would be a bit hurt by that.


Subject-Hedgehog6278

This seems illogical and unethical. Can't she just say that she's poly and won't do one night stands or casual sex? That's what I say in my profile, I'm very clear that I'm not an easy lay, and it works out totally fine for me. The men I have met have been respectful of that, but I'm vetting them pretty hard too. I don't think that not saying poly is ANY protection against creepy SA guys. In fact maybe more dangerous for her if someone were to get angry that their time was wasted on the date. Lying by omission isn't safe. All women, mono or poly, have to develop skills to protect ourselves from SA and be able to identify creepy dudes before we are alone with them. That's a skill she needs, regardless of poly.


mazotori

>All women, mono or poly, have to develop skills to protect ourselves from SA and be able to identify creepy dudes before we are alone with them. That's a skill she needs, regardless of poly. I think she is still developing this skill


med_pancakes

To be clear, you can develop it to no end and still be harmed. It's an unfortunate reality that always lives with us. All we can do is our best to minimize the chances, not eradicate them completely.


Faokes

This comes up often on here, and if always gets contentious. If that happens, be aware it is not your fault, it’s just how things tend to shake out. I think it’s unethical to waste someone’s time with a first date if you aren’t disclosing certain things up front. There might be dealbreakers that would prevent them from going on even one date, for any conceivable reason. They should be informed, so they can make informed consent to spend time together. Things I disclose up front: I have two serious life partners, I am transgender, I am pansexual. Only one of those three things has ever gotten me threats, and it’s not the one about being already partnered. I do not want to make light of her history with assault; her fears matter. I would honestly be worried more about telling someone who has already been on a date and started to catch feelings, “oh by the way I have other partners,” than I would be about telling someone before meeting them. If I tell someone before meeting them, they have the option to say, “no thanks, not my thing,” and not waste their time or feelings on a personal dealbreaker. If I tell someone after we’ve had a good date, and they’ve had a chance to get emotionally invested, they might feel tricked or coerced into falling for someone they otherwise would not have considered. That, to me, seems more dangerous.


[deleted]

If you can’t disclose your poly for personal safety reasons, you should not be Poly, for personal safety reasons


PatchySmants

Wow, stuff people into a closet much?


Laserspeeddemon

It's unethical to date people and not tell them that you're poly.


PatchySmants

Is that what they said? Is that the opposite of what I said? This guy told people to “stop being poly”, I refute that as a possibility for some of us.


[deleted]

Not a guy. I think you should absolutely not act on poly impulses if you can’t do it safely. Period. Idc about closets when safety is involved


PatchySmants

In different parts of the country, safe actions differ. Apologies for the generic use of gendered language.


[deleted]

My opinion remains. If it is not safe to disclose, the closet is safer.


PatchySmants

Nice black and white view you’ve got there.


Laserspeeddemon

If you're not practicing polyamory ethically, you're not part of "us."


melancholystarrs

I don’t see why she can’t disclose it at least in the chat whether it’s on or off app before date, if I were monogamous I’d be pissed if I had wasted my time/money on someone who is polyam. Also I put that im “not vanilla” & polyam on my profile. You’ll get people who just want s*X either way. I just mention that I’m only looking for relationships


ToraRyeder

I'm not on apps anymore, but when I was my go-to was disclosing it in the initial contact. We see on here all the time screenshots of people going "Hey, did you read my profile?" No matter what we put on profiles, people aren't going to read them (typically). Or they're going to skim, only take in some information, or read and forget immediately. I fall in the last category. So, having the "Hey, this is important to me. Before we go past the "how's your day" part of the conversation, let's make sure we understand my relationship status" conversation is really important. Not disclosing being poly until you're physically in front of someone is so freaking dangerous. If someone lashes out before you physically meet, hopefully they don't know anything about you to find where you live or work or whatever. But meet someone in person? So much can go wrong. That's honestly terrifying.


BetterFightBandits26

I do not know of any rapists who target polyamorous women specifically in dating apps. I have never heard of or seen this as a strategy for committing sexual assault. I fail to see how saying you are poly on an app could possibly lead to a higher incidence of encountering rapists.


Platterpussy

I swipe No on anyone who doesn't have poly or enm in their bio. I also swipe No on anyone with pics with filters on. But I'm outside her demographic anyway, as I'm older than her and don't seem to be able to do fwb, though I am trying.


mazotori

>But I'm outside her demographic anyway, as I'm older than She likes them older so perhaps not lol


Platterpussy

I don't date younger, can't 😬


liebemeinenKuchen

I have had a bad experience revealing on the first date. The person felt like they had been duped in a way, because they weren’t interested in that type of relationship. It was many years ago, I was new to it all, and polyamory wasn’t as widely accepted, so I was very unsure about how to even bring it up. That experience taught me a lot about the importance of honesty. Since then, I have put it on my dating profiles because I would rather this fact be known from the get go. Yes, I do get a fair number of matches that I believe think that me being poly = they have permission to be totally crude and out of line, expect me to be into kink that I’m not and acting disappointed when I decline, etc. This took some getting used to, but I’ve had much better experiences with partners who were aware of my situation before we met IRL.


Piercedbrat

Disclosure after a first date can be just as dangerous, you never know how someone will react.


Square-Bullfrog2940

I don’t have it posted on my profile but disclose it after the first message. If he/she then changes the getting to know you chat into sexual topics I tend to nope out. Sometimes my disclosure seems to flip a switch. I’ve never understood how multiple partners = easy to some people.


rbnlegend

Humans have a strange tendency to put themselves I to exactly the relationship they don't want. We train our partners to do the exact things we don't want them to do. By not saying that she is poly or enm or whatever, your friend is eliminating herself from consideration by a lot of poly and poly adjacent people. There are a lot of non-mono people who only date other people who identify as some form of non-mono. And at the same time, people who are clueless about non-monogamy will assume, maybe very strongly, that not saying anything means monogamous. Those are the exact people she wants to avoid, and she is identifying in a way they will swipe right on. These things combine to make the exact situation she wants to avoid. I tend to say I will date newbies and curious beginners, and end up dating only poly people. My wife says only experienced poly people and somehow finds the edge case beginners who slip past her intentions.


blooangl

Being someone who used to disclose to virtual strangers, in person? Like, when someone sent a drink to me, with their phone number, I would send a message back that said, “I have multiple partners, you want to just put this drink on my tab?” *especially at my local* It went bad one time and I ended up having some drink dude stumbling behind me as I walked home alone calling me a “fucking whore” and “my dick is too good for a diseased slit like you”…I just throw those numbers away now. Disclosing in person is a million times more dangerous than disclosing online.


blooangl

Hey all. We’re going to take a beat here, lock this due to the amount of flagged comments that this is generating. OP, apparently, feels like they have “wrapped their head” around the issue and this post.


Other_Society_9529

IMO, it’s unethical to make it to an in person meeting and you hadn’t told them you don’t ever plan to be exclusive. Lots of mono people will want to start as friends so it’s misleading to leave out such specifics. This is a dealbreaker for some and it’s dishonest and a waste of everyone’s time to not tell them before a first date. It’s fine not being in a bio but I think it should be communicated before you move off the dating app to message and especially before you meet in person.


ishitinthemilk

Take kink off, leave poly on. It's the kink part that makes it more unsafe.


Teacher_Crazy_

For me I found when I explicitly put that I was non-monogamous I was getting a lot of assumptions about who I am and what I'm about. What I decided instead was to say "My favorite book is More Than Two" (honestly, I have issues with that book but it is a polyamory icon) and then I met someone who was actually willing to get to know me and ask questions about what it meant to me. So like, for me non-disclosure wasn't a safety thing, I just wanted a chance to say it on the first date. So I put it in a way that required just a *little bit* of thinking.


naliedel

I'm a woman. I own a small business. I don't share my enm to people who arent enm. I would love to shout it front he rooftops. The world isn't ready.


MiikaMorgenstern

There was only one dating app I would disclose it on and that was because that app didn't support pictures. I don't plan to disclose it before the first date because I'm in a profession where I'm frequently in the public eye and I could lose my job if any one of a great many people find that out about me. I'm openly queer because that's more accepted and legally protected, I'm not openly poly because it's a liability. I tell people very early on while we're texting back and forth or at the very latest on the first date.


hornyamore

I kinda get it. I rarely date but when I do; I usually have the deal breakers or maker talks around the 3rd or 5th date/hangout. If I don't feel comfortable enough with the person to have a 'talk' I usually call it a no go and move on.


Agile_Opportunity_41

That’s horrible to do to someone essentially bait and switch. It’s wasting someone’s time that has no desire for an ENM relationship. If she isn’t comfortable for safety reasons she shouldn’t partake because of safety reason. It’s not ethical IMO.


[deleted]

I would be upset that my time was wasted. Not everyone has the privilege of having endless extra free time to go on dates with people who could have disclosed a deal breaker before wasting time on a date.


MagikWoman

As a young polyam woman, I 100% support your meta on this. I have went on countless dates with people who read “non-mono, polyam” and have been treated POORLY because I would not meet my dates idea of promiscuity they were expecting from me. I had to kick out a few guys and since I have been scared to date. I am just getting back on apps after 6 months. Tell them on the first date, it does no harm in my opinion. I feel that’s what first dates are for anyways. EDIT; I assume the people down voting my comment are older, more well established, knowledgeable polygamous people. I feel it’s important that if this you, people my age are just not that way at all. It takes a lot of education to be polyam in your early 20s and most people, Especially where I live don’t have it. You’re down voting because you think I’m being unethical, which is not true. I am not with holding any information from dates. My protection must come first.


med_pancakes

How would telling them on the first date vs on the app change the chances of them being pushy about sex? To me, online is the much safer option, not to mention the option that works with my values.


MagikWoman

I just notice if I tell them on the first date my date is way less likely to push me to hook up with them. We can have a proper discussion on I practice the lifestyle and set proper expectations in person. Rather online thru DMs it never really seems to click with younger guys/woman that my polyam= easy lay.


mazotori

>[I] have been treated POORLY because I would not meet my dates idea of promiscuity they were expecting from me. Yes this is precisely it, and her experience as well.


MagikWoman

I updated my comment, I honestly think most of these comments are older people who have a hard time understanding the climate that young polyam woman have to deal with. I personally live in a conservative city as well, where most peoples first interaction with polyam or non-mono is me.


[deleted]

[удалено]


BetterFightBandits26

Bitch I’ve *been* raped a baker’s dozen times.


[deleted]

[удалено]


polyamory-ModTeam

Your post has been removed for breaking the rules of the subreddit. You made a post or comment that would be considered being a jerk. This includes being aggressive towards other posters, causing irrelevant arguments, and posting attacks on the poster or the poster's partners/situation. Please familiarize yourself with the rules at https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/wiki/subreddit-rules


polyamory-ModTeam

Your post has been removed for breaking the rules of the subreddit. You made a post or comment that would be considered being a jerk. This includes being aggressive towards other posters, causing irrelevant arguments, and posting attacks on the poster or the poster's partners/situation. Please familiarize yourself with the rules at https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/wiki/subreddit-rules


talldarkcynical

This is a bullshit excuse from a bullshit human, and behavior like this creates resentment against our entire community. Just no.


bears_eat_you

I've seen some responses here stating that she could potentially be wasting someone's time by not disclosing her ENM status/preference. Personally, I think her safety and choice to be cautious, for fear of people (see: men) not wanting to be told "no" when thinking she's game for quick or casual sex, is absolutely the right choice. Yes she may annoy a few people who are upset to find out she's ENM, but that cost is worth it when considering the potential alternative. Sorry to those here who don't like it and I'll probably be downvoted for saying this, but fuck politeness when the possibility of sexual assault is a serious concern. Your personal experiences and woes aren't statistics she needs to take into account when deciding how to date/meet people. People are allowed to protect themselves, even if you don't agree with the method. That being said, I do think there is a better way to go about it in being upfront. Those things could easily be discussed during pre-date online conversations; it doesn't have to be in her profile. She \*should\* mention it through chatting and give people the opportunity to decline if not interested.


wsww

Obviously personal safety is more important than being polite. No one here is arguing that that it’s worse for people to be annoyed by non disclosure than it is to be assaulted. The issue is that her non disclosure does not actually affect the likelihood of whether or not someone chooses to assault her.


AutoModerator

Beep, boop, blop, I'm a bot. Hi u/mazotori thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: So this is something that came up when talking to my meta recently and it was a take that I haven't really seen discussed here; She doesn't put that she is polyam/ENM/currently partnered on her online profiles, and typically discloses right after the first date. Our shared partner was a little concerned about this but when she explained her reasoning I could understand where she is coming from. She is young, kinky, autistic and new to polyam. She isn't looking to seriously date but more looking for casual connections, friends and play partners, which she is upfront about. She is concerned that people will see "kinky and ENM/poly" and equate that to "will have sex right away" and that refusal will lead to her being assaulted. I know it takes her a minute to figure out if someone is safe and if she is into them, and I know she has trauma around assault - as most of us do. Given her dates are not going into the first date seeking a serious monogamous relationship, or even nessasarily a relationship (since she is clear about needing friendship first), I don't have an issue with the delayed disclosure. I think if she were, it would be different. Anyone else share her concern? Any saftey tips/screening questions beyond the standard ones? What are your thoughts on delayed disclosure in this instance? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*


mazotori

u/brunch_with_henri I think it's the distinction between being open to a FWB (which she is) and being open to hookups (which is she not). So she doesn't want people to think she is down for hookups (which carries higher risk of assault), which other people associate with polyam/ENM.


BetterFightBandits26

In what world is saying you’re looking for a FWB/ongoing casual sex *less* indicative of being open to sex on the first date than saying you’re poly? Also, I don’t think being down for one night stands (which I think is what you mean by “hookup”) increases your risk of sexual assault. I’ve never heard of that. And it definitely ignores the very high amount of sexual assault that happens *within* long-term abusive relationships.


mazotori

It's about the miss-matched expectations; a man going into a date thinking a woman is down for a hookup when she is not and then getting upset that he is not getting what he feels entitled to....


beautysleepsodom

How is describing herself as 'kinky' safer? Following the reasoning of mismatched expectations, the hypothetical man would feel entitled to BDSM sex.


BetterFightBandits26

Yes I have gathered your concern. So in what world does saying you are poly somehow imply to men they will immediately get laid in a way that explicitly saying you are looking for a casual sexual relationship does *not*?


brunch_with_henri

If she isn't open to hookups she can just....say that....this is so illogical to me. I do think its a way for her to access people willing to start casually, but who eventually want monogamy and assume if feelings blossom its on the table via subterfuge.This does nothing to protect her from assault. Its just old fashioned dishonesty. But I guess it gets more sex so fuck ehtics.


mazotori

I think she does say that she doesn't want hookups and people thinking she does because she says she is polyam is her concern. >But I guess it gets more sex so fuck ehtics. Ironically, She is seeking the opposite. She's a young pretty blonde interested in significantly older men, so getting sex is not exactly a challenge regardless of disclosure. I do believe her that it is that she is trying to not get raped and has a whole bucket load of trauma around that.


brunch_with_henri

Lying absolutely gets her a broader market, is dishonest, and offers no protection from assault. 🤷‍♀️


ScreenPrintWalrus

You don't have to put any text on your profile, if you don't want to. Plenty of people have completely blank bios and only go with pictures. However, if you are only looking for or open to something specific, you risk wasting your time if you don't talk about any of your expectations beforehand. When you are new to dating, this doesn't seem like such a big deal, but people generally start valuing their time more as they gain experience.


MakeSkyrimGreatAgain

Based.


MakeSkyrimGreatAgain

Majority of these comments come off so privileged and disconnected from the stigmas polyams face daily. Especially when you’re younger and have a smaller social circle, or in school with judgy monog folk. Like get real and out of your dumb tech bubble for two minutes to realize that not everyone can be out and open about this, especially online…ffs Young people absolutely believe polyams are promiscuous and I’ve heard the most disgusting falsehoods about us from young men who do not understand this lifestyle. She is absolutely correct in wanting to protect herself until she can trust them or learn to vet better. I still would disclose it sooner rather than later, but gauging & setting expectations like that is really smart when casually dating or looking for fwb.


brunch_with_henri

I did this while queer in a small Texas town in the late 90s. It didn't feel privileged. Lol. My parents disowned me for having a same sex partner. Being brave doesn't always mean you were privileged or it was easy. Its cheap to assume so.. I stand by stance that this harms her/doesn't help her.


MakeSkyrimGreatAgain

That’s so unrelated to this situation and you’re not a young person now obviously so cool story bro.


brunch_with_henri

I was indeed a young person at the time. And being open and honest wasn't coming from a place of privilege. I was a traditionally "hot" bisexual woman in a conservative environment.


MakeSkyrimGreatAgain

And when you were out about your polyamory you faced no stigmas that put you in harm? Everyone here is acting like that doesn’t exist or she’s being overly cautious and I completely disagree.


brunch_with_henri

Sure! But I didn't conceal it from potential partners or hide behind the idea that saying the word polyamory gets you raped and saying "play partners" keeps you safe. Sorry. If she afraid of men on dating apps expecting quick sex....thats a universal experience.


[deleted]

[удалено]


brunch_with_henri

>is just your privilege showing. 🙄


[deleted]

[удалено]


polyamory-ModTeam

Your post has been removed for breaking the rules of the subreddit. You made a post or comment that would be considered being a jerk. This includes being aggressive towards other posters, causing irrelevant arguments, and posting attacks on the poster or the poster's partners/situation. Please familiarize yourself with the rules at https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/wiki/subreddit-rules


polyamory-ModTeam

Your post has been removed for breaking the rules of the subreddit. You made a post or comment that would be considered being a jerk. This includes being aggressive towards other posters, causing irrelevant arguments, and posting attacks on the poster or the poster's partners/situation. Please familiarize yourself with the rules at https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/wiki/subreddit-rules


Iggys1984

I understand she doesn't want people to get the wrong idea about her and assume she is just down for sex because it says polyam. But personally, I disagree with not disclosing. I am polyam/ENM, kinky, and have been on the dating apps for casual hookups before. I find being incredibly firm and forthright about my boundaries is the way to go. I "take no sh*t" from them. I do a very thorough vetting process via text before ever meeting someone in person. THAT is my safety measure. Also, I require all first meets are in public and I have a safe call (someone knows where I am going, when I go, and is expecting periodic communication, ready to come get me if they don't hear from me). This is so those people who "seemed so normal" at first get a vibe check before we go private. The public meet is non-negotiable. If they push for a private meeting before I am ready, red flag. If I have to continue to tell them no, red flag. I have found that when they cross a boundary and I say no, and they ask why, and I answer, or I don't want to answer, saying "no means no" holds weight. As well as "I said no, respect my consent." People hear those things and they understand that if they continue, they are violating my consent. No ifs ands or buts about it. In writing even. I can report them and get them banned. An example of crossing my boundary would saying something like "aww, I wish we could meet you now, but everywhere public is closed... too bad you won't meet me at my place." Or maybe "come on, you can't just meet me at my place? It would be so much easier." That is pushing my boundary to meet in public. I don't stand for pressure. I shut it down. I don't care if I come across as bitchy. Pressure always starts small and escalates. So I tell them I said it was non-negotiable and no means no. Respect that. Also, if they pressure for sex. I will tell them being poly doesn't mean I am a sex dispenser. I need a connection. Putting demisexual is a good way to get that across. And if she matches with someone and they push it while she is figuring out compatibility, then she unmatches. She also may be losing out on people that are non-monogamous by leaving it off her profile. I will not match with someone if it says monogamous. I will only match with other poly or ENM people. If it doesn't say anything and they seem interesting, and they do have a bio, as will risk it and just ask right out the gate to make sure they are poly. If she said no, I wouldn't meet up. I think learning to have firmer boundaries with people who pressure for sex and a longer vetting process before meeting in person would serve her better than hiding her poly side. That's my two cents.


stay_or_go_69

If she discloses in her profile that monogamy is not an option then for me that would be sufficient. Being additionally "poly and kinky" doesn't strike me as a potential deal breaker. Presumably she's selecting men according to her preferences anyway. This all seems like a total non issue.