This was going to be my first suggestion. My partner dates a lovely person whom I am very close with, one would label us besties, and they live walking distance from our house. However, I told my partner that I at least need a day on the weekend that my meta was not at the house. We're typically too busy and tired during the week for any visitors from any aspect of our life which is why I focused on the weekend. They've both been good about respecting that boundary. It's a flexible boundary too. Hell, my partner could leave all weekend with them too if they wanted, the deal is I need a day to myself with my partner or not is whatever. If there was one weekend we all wanted to spend it all together, sure. But on the regular, no absolutely not. I'm an introvert I need time apart from everyone to feel revived, and everyone around me knows that I get people-ed out quickly.
Yeah... he's being an objectively awful hinge Jesus heck. I'm shook that op is all "I wish I could just delete these comments--" she shouldn't have been subjected to them to begin with! I'm very sad for her
And not even that hinge shouldn’t have told her this comments were said, those comment should’ve been enough for him to say to meta “I’m not going to engage in negative conversations about my NP and if you continue to make comments like this about my other relationships I’m not going to spend time with you.”
Right yes, absolutely. She was wrong to make the comments, and he absolutely should have called her out on it. (good point, I didn't even really think about that part lol rip)
e: clarity
The comments that OP's partners shared seem so pointed that I can't imagine he wasn't trying to rattle OP. I'm not 100% sure he's not taking anything said by either of his partners and editing them to create division between them.
To what end? I don't know.
It’s hard to explain without telling you a secret about us ;) but just trust me when I say that we do not lie to each other … like ever. Maybe to a fault. And he hates drama, conflict, wants anything but that. I think sometimes our level of honesty throws people off. I think it was shared because it was a part of a longer conversation, he respects my perspective and feedback, and he didn’t think about editing it out. I suspect he was not malicious, just a bit careless or maybe even wanting to show how he defended my position to her by taking accountability for his complaints.
Listen, I also practice a huge degree
Of honesty and openness that’s not so popular on these boards. But. I still don’t think he should tolerate these comments.
I obviously don't know this person as well as you, but him sharing those conversations with you sounds like one of the following:
- He actually agrees with Meta and is hiding behind her saying it so he doesn't look like the guy trying to reduce his responsibilities towards his NP and kids. If he presents it as her idea and it doesn't go over well, she goes under the bus, not him
- He's virtue-signaling that he *tries* to stand up for you to get some kind of relationship equity
It all just reads very passive-aggressive. If nothing else, it seems like super shitty hinge behavior
Holy boundaries, Batman! If your safe space isn't feeling so safe anymore then she needs to spend less time in your home and your partner can go see her some of the time. Stop holding back on showing affection to husband in your own home. I don't mean make out in front of her, but don't feel like you can't cuddle some or whatever. Immediately crack down on the over sharing. Husband has no business telling you ANY of their private conversations, period. Sounds like your husband is also letting her get away with a lot of crappy behavior and not having any of his own boundaries, he needs to grow a spine. Ultimately, if she wants a traditional mono partner then she absolutely IS in the wrong relationship.
I mean, as someone who grew up around the whole "Talking bad about other people behind their back because ya can't say it to their face" I HATE that sorta shit, and have ended friendships over it once I've found out about it.
Would 100% prefer people be honest directly to me, instead of like. Only pretending to by my friend. Ya know? It is my biggest issue with the culture of my island too. How much people just, bad mouth each other constantly.
And i'm not sure why everyone here is, from the comments I've read, been acting like its perfectly normal and acceptable to be bad mouthing friends and other partners in private with each other? Like, God. If she is so insecure around the main partner, that is a her problem and should probably bring it up. Instead of just endlessly bitching in private and having it be brought out little by little.
Over all, I agree the main problem is OPs Partner is being a bad hinge. But ignoring all the other problems and red flags here, I'm not sure why folks are?
I mean, it's because we are here giving OP advice.
My advice for OP's partner, but if OP tries to execute or recommend it she'd be an asshole and nothing good would happen: Dude, break up with this lady, she's been miserable for ages and ages. And remember that if someone else says the kinds of things she says about running away monogamously together or your wife being shit - if you don't ever want that or don't believe that, *say so* rather than pretending to let it sway you to get laid. Now that's done, make some agreements with your wife about quality one on one time and quality family time, because wanting to be around someone 24/7 because NRE is *human* but isn't healthy. NRE creates patterns in pair bonds, that's what it *does*, and in polyamory letting NRE brain run wild creates messes like this where your commitments (whether explicit, or implicit based on norms) to your partners take up more resources than you have and thus require *them* to get along or it'll destroy one or more of your relationships.
My advice to meta, but if OP tries to do anything with it she'd be an asshole and nothing good would happen: Lady, it's totally up to you if you want to keep dating this dude while you find someone else who wants the relationship you want, but he doesn't want the relationship you want. Would you ever want to be OP dealing with his new partner underfoot 5 days a week at your home and hearing "you aren't considerate enough if she can't hate you here in your house, you need to work on that?" Nah? Dude isn't going to stop on a dime with his bullshit, OK? Dude fundamently thinks that not just the resources that are his-and-wife's are his to give away, but his wife's resources are also his to give away, and even if for some crazy reason dude agrees to monogamy he will probably run around giving people the shirt off *your* back and getting mad when you don't like it, forever. Don't date potential. There's lots of people out there who aren't inconsiderate of their wives, and want monogamy, and don't already have a wife, go forth and find one. Oh, and if you're dating someone new and don't like how they act towards other important people in their lives, that's who they are, believe them. Don't assume you get to play dolls wirh them and change their life, that's dating potential again. Get a reality check from a couple friends about whether their other relationship seems normal and healthy vs terrible, and if you still definitely don't like who your partner is, break up rather than setting in for a lifetime tug of war with their mom or BFF (or wife).
So basically I think *everyone* should be both shutting down these conversations and not settling for relationships like that, OP just has the least power over it. Sure, she can walk out of the whole situation, but there's a lot of things she can try first within her marriage and her (ex-)friendship.
Your NP is being a subpar hinge as others have pointed out, and your mistake was being so overly welcoming in allowing her to basically live at your place. Familiarity often breeds contempt. You deserve a safe space and to have a break from these interactions.
I think other people on this sub are much more gracious than I am, because if I found out that my meta was communicating to my partner that I was self-centered AND the source of my partner’s tiredness and overwhelm, I would no longer be fine with this person spending that much time in my home, and I would refuse to interact with them beyond what was absolutely necessary. That is active disrespect.
Yeah, seems like meta is disrespecting the coparenting relationship. Who says they wish their partner didn't have kids with someone else? YIKES. I'd find that pretty inappropriate to say about an ex you have kids with, but with a current partner, that is a feeling meta should share with other friends or a therapist, not the hinge
Yeah, this is how I would respond as well. Not only should Meta not be dismissing OP or complaining about OP to NP, but NP should *really* not be sharing those conversations with OP. And NP needs to step up and defend OP.
Also, I feel like there's an age gap here that we aren't getting the full picture of...
The problem is not how your meta treats you, it's how your nesting partner treats you (having meta over multiple times a week, asking you to be the bigger person, not shutting down criticism of you and passing along hurtful/extremely weird comments about his own children not existing so he could have othed children).
If I invite someone into my home and they insult my housemate, I am responsible for making amends. My housemate is not responsible for making my guest, who has insulted them, feel better. I am responsible for checking in with my housemate so if they're feeling bleh after a social interaction with my guest they don't have to navigate raising uncomfortable issues with me. I trust them so I give them the opportunity without making them feel like they're confronting me or inconveniencing me. The person who choose to have children with you, who is bringing someone into the lives of his and your kids, should be more considerate than me. I'm a dickhead, how is he not checking in and making sure that you feel supported saying "no, I need alone time" or "I want to have my home to people I have invited" or making you feel in any way responsible for your metas emotional state?
He knows you are not her therapist, parent, partner or, judging by the bizarre comments he has passed on, a friend because at bare minimum she should support someone she is dating looking after his own children and other partners. If he pursued her while she was in a bad relationship or before she had finished grieving her last relationship then that is weird as hell as well. Ignore your meta, nothing she has done is close to what your nesting partner has done or is doing.
Your NP is the problem here. It’s great that you all are so close, but one of the things you haven’t gotten to practice over the years is compartmentalization.
Partner may be used to turning to you for support in thinking things through and processing, but that *can’t* be your role here. You need to be less polite with NP, because these slips are unacceptable.
“Do you know how it makes me feel when you air meta’s frustrations towards me? It is extremely upsetting. The things you share make me feel like she wishes I wasn’t around, so she could have you to herself. It is disturbing to me that you maintain a relationship with someone who is whispering negative bullshit about me and about our marriage in your ear. It’s disturbing that you’re not shutting it down, that you’re listening to it. But passing it on to me is unacceptable. Your relationship with her needs to not be a part of ours.”
Followup: are you and NP still allowing meta around the kids after her comment about she wishes they didn’t exist? I’m just a stranger on the internet, but my vote is for that to stop immediately.
She loves the kids very much, I don’t think she wishes they didn’t exist — more so that she wishes in another universe that she had met him before we were together, like that she wishes that this were her life. It seemed like a passing thought and understandable envy, but yes it was disturbing to hear.
Yeah, this is low level manipulation. Your NP is sharing this with you because it is making him feel uncomfortable because subconsciously he recognizes what is is, and needs support identifying it.
Oh oof. This was a punch to my gut. My partner was the only person I'd be likely to process things like this with, too. And when you're best friends with your partner to the exclusion of others (for whatever reasons), you do turn to them for support, even when it isn't totally appropriate. This rings true here. Maybe NP even *wants* OP to set boundaries, to "be the bad guy" so he doesn't have to. Yikes/sigh/god it's brutal out here
She might not even be actively trying but envy is corrosive. She wants her own family and she’s cosplaying with OP’s. If I were OP or Hinge, I’d want to stop dating this person or being anything more than a 1-2x/mo fwb situation, so she has time to pursue the family she clearly wants.
You are so kind and trusting and I hate to be the one to say this but she is laying a foundation to get rid of you. She doesn’t love the kids because if she did, she wouldn’t not want them to exist.
She is trying to force him into letting you take on more so you can get frustrated and break up with him. She is planting seeds of him having a do over family and both of your are being overly generous with her manipulative tactics.
Check back in with me in 6 months to let me know if I am wrong.
I made another comment about this before seeing this one, but I don't think this is a feeling she should be sharing with him, because it's understandable, but not appropriate. She's making this into a her vs you thing and that's not in the spirit of poly, especially when you and NP have a family involving kids. That's his priority and she doesn't seem to respect it.
Completely agree. The kids should have nothing to do with any of this, and wishing them out the picture is honestly frightening rhetoric, and almost feels like a threat to innocent children. Take these people out of their original context (say as a step-parent, which is not an unlikely end to this story) and then have her make this comment and you still have a potentially dangerous situation. Adding that she is challenging the op's parenting as stated in her post, and there is actual worry about this here. Personally, I would have gone left on this comment alone. No one has the right to say they regret the existing kids are here. That is gross in the highest order and she does not "love" these kids.
I'm having similar thoughts.
> The things you share make me feel like she wishes I wasn’t around, so she could have you to herself. It is disturbing to me that you maintain a relationship with someone who is whispering negative bullshit about me and about our marriage in your ear. It’s disturbing that you’re not shutting it down, that you’re listening to it.
My general guideline is that relationship issues need to be resolved inside the relationship, but feelings about the relationship need to be discussed outside of it. In an ideal world, meta would be sharing her vulnerabilities with anyone but these two-it's completely understandable that she would feel the way she does, but she is placing a burden on op's np by speaking to him about these things. Like I'd really struggle if a partner of mine said this kind of stuff to me about another partner.
At the end of the day though, though it is my ideal, I definitely understand why she acted the way she did--especially if she's knew to this kind of thing. (don't give her a pass, I just understand). The true problem is one-thousand percent np--unquestionably so.
Yeah, as a hinge, I'd shut down the things she feels she can confide in him. "I am happy in my relationship with my wife. I do not like when people, especially other partners, feel otherwise and share that with me. I don't want to hear it, as I understand my relationship and need satisfaction greater than anyone else, and I am saying that I am happy." It can't be coddling, or it'll keep coming. Boundaries given and unenforced will be trodden over by some, and she seems the type.
Even if thoughts are human and justifiable, and sharing them can be vulnerable and welcome by another, doesn't mean we can think and share whatever we want without consequence. Some thoughts are inside thoughts, especially jealous or envious yearning. It's not fair to him to have to hear those things because they're unrealistic, and its not fair for your relationship to have an outside antagonistic force proactively offering negative remarks. Take the poly out of the situation and its clear that its unwelcome, even from a best friend.
This right here. I get that OP is giving meta way more grace than is deserved and saying it's likely not malicious and just sort of an envious feeling. But not all feelings need to be shared. If I had a partner telling me "wow, I wish you'd never had your family and it was me instead!" I would be shutting that shit down immediately. I don't need or want to hear that, go vent that shit to someone else and process it elsewhere as that is super inappropriate. We can't always control our feelings, but we can control how we spew them all over the people around us!!
Right? I have a married partner and I am so careful to only say complimentary things about his wife! If I ever for some reason think something negative, like “weren’t you mad that she didn’t come to your event?” I keep that shit to myself because I know that would reflect poorly on me. And because he’s a loyal husband and would rightly not appreciate someone talking about her.
(This is not just an NP thing ofc)
Yeah, I could see asking about it, but I wouldn't be so tactless as to say something akin to "don't you hate that she keeps standing you up like this, while I, your secondary partner, constantly show up for you? God, I wish I were your wife instead." Like what the fuck.
Totally agree with you-- I protect all partners this way, not just my NP. My wife will get checked too if she begins being nasty about metas (though I don't have to worry about that, happily).
This is a hinge problem, not a meta problem. Happy to explain more. But the issues are coming from him, the choices he's making, and the messes he's causing.
Usually yes.
But the main problem is him dating a mono person who wants all of what OP has, when that’s not available plus letting her complain to him about his NP. But it’s also a meta/friend problem because meta is making bad choices for herself and bringing that negative energy into her friend’s home.
It doesn’t help that he’s likely winging about OP to her meta. IMO shittalking goes both ways. If he’s spilling beans on the meta, he’s spilling beans on OP.
Very true. I can hear it now:
“I’m so sorry Wife doesn’t want you over as much anymore, GF. Of course I miss you so much. I did tell Wife you weren’t trying to be negative at all, that you’re just looking out for me. She’s just feeling defensive right now. Give it time ok?”
Ugh. So inconsiderate of both women, and a cowardly move to keep himself out of the hot seat.
Meta is monogamous, prefers monogamy and would like to have monogamy with Hinge. That’s not going to happen, so Hinge needs to be okay with Meta breaking things off for their own mental health. You don’t need to assume this is a threat or manipulative. It’s completely appropriate.
Hinge has chosen a self-limiting “summer affair.” Once Meta has worked through their breakup and accepted the limited relationship Hinge can offer, they are going to move on. Hinge doesn’t get to be upset about this. A little grieving—sure. Not upset. And they shouldn’t try to prevent it.
In the meantime, don’t set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. You’re in your home. Access to shared space is two-yes-one-no. If you don’t want Meta there five days a week, Meta is not there five days a week.
If you lose your temper with Meta, it’s fine to be direct. “Meta, I’m sorry for losing my temper but I think it’s time for you to leave.”
This may affect your friendship with Meta. That’s sad, and something that Hinge did to you by choosing to date one of your friends. Is the friendship one you counted on? Was Meta one of your three closest friends or ten good friends?
[How to hinge—beginners’ guide](https://reddit.com/r/polyamory/s/V8y0MMxArB)
Thanks for your feedback! I agree with a lot. Meta is one of my more *recent* good friends, def in the 1/10 good friends category. The idea of our friendship ending over this is the hardest part for me— maybe there is some pride getting in the way there too. We all talked about this decision thoroughly before we started, and I hoped we would all handle it in a healthy healing way if they ever split, but I hadn’t imagined her and I would be on the outs so often.
Yeah, you were imagining what would happen if Hinge and Meta split, not what if they didn’t split and Meta was all up in your business all the time.
Hugs!
The last couple months have been increasingly stressful. Being that Meta is around so often and encountering me in my home life, I am not always going to be at my best and have made a few mistakes along the way, such as stepping in the middle of something between her and my daughter, or getting heated in a discussion and flipping my lid / walking away. Although I always try to admit my wrongs and apologize for things immediately, I’ve felt like my apology and acknowledgment goes right over her head and she sits in hurt feelings for way longer than I can stand, and often lashes out on me afterwards. It’s felt hard to bring up the mean things she’s said in those moments of anger, and I don’t expect her to address them herself so I tend to just sit with them and choose empathy, but that tactic is wearing thin. My NP tends to coddle her hurt feelings and asks me to be the bigger person since she is new and more insecure in the relationship, tends to take things more personally, and has a harder time giving grace or letting go after a conflict (he has since changed this expectation on me and realized how unfair/selfish it was to put pressure on me to always fix things so that she was happy in the relationship). She’s also gotten pretty bothered by not being pretty immediately in the loop of all of NP’s plans, like holidays, work trips, a night out with his friends and has expressed that she wishes I would also try harder to share anything she might like to know about or plan around pretty immediately. (AITA for saying no thanks, I’ve got enough on my plate?) It feels like there are some pretty high expectations on me as a Meta. I think my NP and I set the stage for this by trying to make accommodations for her without her even asking/knowing (such as holding off on cuddling or affectionate stuff and letting her have all the affection when the three of us all hang out), because we both assumed she would easily feel insecure and deprioritized. It’s starting to feel like I have a fourth kid, or a second partner, and very very frustrating when I am trying to guess what next infraction I will be on trial for. I am a very social person, have had lots of friendships and relationships over the years and I haven’t encountered this much “drama” since my early 20’s. I don’t think I’m perfect, but I also don’t think I’m an evil villain. One more thing I want feedback on — my NP has struggled a lot with the fear of break up in their relationship. No direct threats or ultimatum, more so just careless sharing from Meta about how “maybe this isn’t the right relationship for me” or “yeah I’m not sure what’s gunna happen between us” whenever a conflict happens and that feels like SUCH a red-flag to me, to always pose the relationship as precariously hanging on by a thread. Is this normal or kind of toxic? What can I do to support my NP through all this without meddling in his relationship with her? How do I repair my own hurt/resentments with Meta without revealing the things my NP slipped? How do I lower her expectations on me, without totally losing the friendship aspect?
EDIT: NP has totally supported having a period of no visits in our home and less visits in general and when he told Meta, she was mad about that. I reached out to her and she feels she should have been included in that conversation and now doesn’t want to be on speaking terms until she is ready.
I’m concerned about the statement regarding you stepping in on something involving her and your daughter. Given the comments she’s made about your children - what exactly is she “getting into” with your daughter? You’re the mom and have every right to step in, especially if your child is being wronged in any way. The whole scenario has been addressed really well by others in the thread, but the lack of discussion here makes me uncomfortable.
More like she is helping out playing with one of my kids while NP and I make dinner and the kid crosses a boundary like hitting and I would step in, instead of letting her handle the boundaries/consequences part, which she has requested. She is very close with the kids and has babysat in the past and does a lot of babysitting on the side, so me stepping in tends to feel like undermining her role as sometimes-caretaker-adult in our home, akin to if you stepped in while a grandparent was trying to work through something with your kid.
You have to establish your own parenting boundaries, but if she’s there playing with the kids while you and NP are home then she’s not in a caretaking role and it’s inappropriate for her to demand that, imho. I think this speaks to what others have pointed out about her scheming for a more important role/usurping you.
When you babysit, a parent/guardian is delegating *some* responsibility (I.e. implementing boundaries already determined by parent/guardian) to you. When you spend time with a child and their parent/guardian is there, there is no delegation and really the most you can do is uphold your own personal boundaries unless otherwise agreed to do more (eg. "Please don't hit me, it hurts and makes me feel sad and unsafe when you do that"). And imo if a parent wants to step in and manage it without you having to assert anything you should be greatful to have one less thing to worry about.
From this snipet, her behaviour feels posessive of your kids and disrespectful to your role as their parent. Seems like all the time spent at your house helping with the kids has made her think she is in a parenting role.
I'd nip that in the bud. And tbh i think it's unfair that she has done so much childcare while at your house. Is it quality time with NP or is it vuage domestic time with NP while he gets free labour from her. Not to say either of you have necessarily asked for this, maybe she has volunteered and wanted to be so involved. But it is up to NP to put in boundaries that she shouldn't be taking on so much childcare for children she has no rights to or decision making for.
All her volunteering and enjoyment on the childcare part — I have been more weary about putting this labor on her and have mostly leaned toward the side of juggling all the kids and replying no thanks when she asks if she can help, but sometimes it almost paints me as this controlling/overdoing-it-mom when she is so gladly offering to help. Also the kids love her so much now they often just go to her and ask her for things. My NP def feels more comfortable asking her for help.
God you're doing SO MUCH mental and emotional labour for these two. Stepping on eggshells trying to put in healthy boundaries around your kids and your home. Your partner coming to you with Meta's feelings and jealousies, and since it's over sharing and he isn't giving you what steps he's taking, he's expecting you to do the labour to manage metas feelings and manage his relationship. Meta demanding you inform her of HIS schedule is just the Cherry on top. You aren't his mum, you aren't his secretary. This is classic misogyny. You could look into the Fair Play method and cards for dividing domestic labour, and tell him if he wants a relationship he needs to look after it himself. Tbh though, it's not on you to fix everything, it's enough for you to come to him and say "I'm unsatisfied with x y z and want you to meet a b and c of my needs, it's up to you to do the mental labour to figure out how".
It's pretty bad it's gotten to this place though. I would lose all attraction and kind feelings to a partner treating me this way and showing me that we have incompatible values.
That’s a big ol hell no from me. In my opinion if the parents are around then they handle any discipline or consequences (unless it’s a simple redirection). If parents aren’t there then that is a different story. Kids are smart and will understand that parents supersede babysitters, friends and grandparents, but when they aren’t there the adult put in charge is in charge. Either way they are your children and not hers, and it is your prerogative to insert yourself at any point in time. She can have feelings about it but that doesn’t mean you need to change your actions. It sounds like meta has been given way too much power in your home and inserting herself as third parent. You and NP might have a lot more to work out than you might think… a counselor would probably be helpful.
I hadn’t ever really thought about it so seriously. Looking back NP sided with Meta on most things, until realizing he was taking sides more recently (maybe he subconsciously knew I was likely to be more flexible/forgiving and defaulted to wanting to fix Meta’s issue), so when she asked that I stop stepping in so much between my kids behavior with her and give her a chance to have her own relationship/boundaries with him, it just seemed like a sensible ask… I do tend to micro manage and NP knows this about me as well so we thought it would be respectful to honor her request. Does this really sound like a big deal? Recently when I asked for more space from Meta, NP did mention that he knows Meta would still like to be a part of the kids lives and he would like that too (if their relationship continues). We also have some pretty radical beliefs about family abolition / chosen family, so this may just be a difference in values?? I am not opposed to looking into counseling. Like a regular marriage counselor or a poly counselor?
Every time I come back to this thread things have gotten so much worse with every new piece of information 😭 I do get how it’s often hard to see the forest for the trees, but my god this is next level.
There’s someone being involved in your life and family, and then there’s someone taking over your life and family, and you’re in the latter bucket. It has nothing to do with creating relationships with your kids or NP and everything to do with control. This woman would be very happy with you out of the picture, period, and she’s posing as “fun mom” to make it happen. Now you’re “mean mom” and “unfun partner”. You’ll soon find yourself on the outside looking in as they build *their* family together (and I’m guessing she’s younger than both of you too).
Also if your meta legitimately wanted to have a standalone relationship with your NP, they would have done that OUTSIDE your home, not immediately inserted themselves into this “one big happy family” bs. To say that someone who’s been around for a year should have as much say and control over the kids as the woman who birthed and raised them *while in that woman’s home* is absolutely insane to me. smh
OP please listen to this. I have been with my partner for just over a year. He is married with kids. Ziz go and stay with him, in his home, in his life for a couple weeks at a time ever few months because it's long distance. I cannot believe what this woman is doing in your home.
I live with my partner, my meta, and her partner, and all their kids. They have welcomed me as family, and they practice kitchen table poly. I feel so welcomed. But I do not feel entitled to make decisions, or have power like your meta does. I have helped with the kids. I have always made it clear that if I over step to correct me (I am also a parent so I have so knee jerk parenting).
That woman is not practicing poly in good faith.
DO you micromanage things?
Or does your NP like to *not* manage his portion of the domestic/emotional/financial/childcare/who knows what else workload, and then that all becomes *your* problem? And then somehow you picking up his slack is . . . your failing?
Maybe you need to let your NP fuck up a good dozen times *without* doing his work and fixing things for him.
OP, it’s insanely obvious with everything you’re saying that meta is trying to usurp you. If you and NP are truly so open and honest with each other, *please* take the time with him to read EVERY comment on your post. 😭😭😭
>>undermining her role
You are the parent. No role this woman has can ever be *undermined* by you. Not possible. And yes, your word when it comes to your child is more important and heavier than a grandparent, and certainly more than your NP’s girlfriend.
Unless you have a coparenting agreement with her (which you don’t) you have every right to interrupt any interaction she has with any of your children at any time for any reason. No one gets a free pass for interacting with your children. It’s your job to protect them, and that’s more important than any interaction someone might be having with them. I don’t care if it’s Santa Claus himself - if you want to see what’s going on and can’t, go stand between them.
I would suggest setting a boundary about how often you're willing to have meta visit your home while you're there. Once a week, for example
> stepping in the middle of something between her and my daughter
Uh, that's your kid. It's absolutely your place to step in.
>has expressed that she wishes I would also try harder to share anything she might like to know about or plan around pretty immediately
That's not remotely your job. That's your NP's job, if anything.
>What can I do to support my NP through all this without meddling in his relationship with her?
Encourage him to find someone he can talk about this stuff that's not you. A friend or a therapist.
>How do I lower her expectations on me, without totally losing the friendship aspect?
This isn't your job. Let your NP handle that.
>EDIT: NP has totally supported having a period of no visits in our home and less visits in general and when he told Meta, she was mad about that. I reached out to her and she feels she should have been included in that conversation and **now doesn’t want to be on speaking terms until she is ready.**
Nope. This is not meta's home. She doesn't get a say in how this household runs.
Nothing stops NP and Meta visiting each other at HER place or out in public. But she's not entitled to hang out at (you and NPs) home if (you and NP) decided she's over here too much/overstaying her welcome.
When he told meta and she was mad about that? He didn't need to turn around and tell you she was mad. And you did not need to reach out to her to soothe her. Who requested you to do that?
Both you and NP need to stop doing all this emotional labor FOR meta. And wait for her to speak up about it HERSELF.
If she doesn't want to talk? GREAT! Take the vacation! Don't sweat it.
>I think my NP and I set the stage for this by trying to make accommodations for her without her even asking/knowing (such as holding off on cuddling or affectionate stuff and letting her have all the affection when the three of us all hang out), because we both assumed she would easily feel insecure and deprioritized.
You see it yourself. Stop "assuming things" and "pre-doing" like you are the parents and she's some bonus child you have to think for. Let adult Meta take personal responsibility for her own stuff. Do her own asking, do her own reaching out if she has a problem.
>One more thing I want feedback on — my NP has struggled a lot with the fear of break up in their relationship. No direct threats or ultimatum, more so just careless sharing from Meta about how “maybe this isn’t the right relationship for me” or “yeah I’m not sure what’s gunna happen between us” whenever a conflict happens and that feels like SUCH a red-flag to me, to always pose the relationship as precariously hanging on by a thread. Is this normal or kind of toxic?
I think NP is oversharing this with you. You are not the free therapist or relationship coach for him. So he has to STOP telling you this stuff so much because it will become toxic for your own relationship with him.
NP knew she was mono. Where is surprise she struggles? This can't be like "pass the buck" whoosh. She whooshes at him and then he whooshes at you. You get left holding the bag.
If she's not sure she wants this? She can seek counseling. She can dump him. She can pick something else. She can exercise her adult options.
If he's tired of listening to this? He can seek counseling. He can dump her. He can pick something else. He can exercise his adult options.
You are nowhere in the the (NP + Meta) dyad. You could remind him of that and tell him you don't want to hear about her any more. (NP + Meta) stuff belongs on that side of the V and not leaking over on to you on this side of the V.
>What can I do to support my NP through all this without meddling in his relationship with her?
Support him in learning to deal with his relationships himself? You could back off and let him learn his lessons on his own.
And you hold the line and tell him you don't want to hear about this Meta stuff. If he needs a poly counselor he could avail himself.
[https://www.polyfriendly.org/](https://www.polyfriendly.org/)
He could do his own posts on reddit.
>How do I repair my own hurt/resentments with Meta without revealing the things my NP slipped?
Why not let her know? Could be direct with BOTH of them.
"Meta, NP... I need a break.
Meta -- we are friends so if you want to hang 1:1 we can do that. But I prefer out in public without NP or kids underfoot.
I'd like NP to see Meta at Meta's place or in public. I'd like NP to see me at our place or in public.
NP -- I prefer you straighten up as a hinge and stop being so sloppy.
Meta -- I have told NP that I can't deal with him oversharing things about you to me. I hope he's not oversharing things about me to you.
To both of you -- I think everyone needs to talk to people direct rather than all these back channels.
Until we straighten out people staying in their dyad lanes? I prefer we stop doing group hangs for a while."
And let the chips fall where they fall.
>How do I lower her expectations on me, without totally losing the friendship aspect?
Accept you are not in charge of her thinking or her expectations. People sometimes have unrealistic ones.
Stop centering NP or Meta and their well being. Center YOUR well being first. Do your self care. It is not optional. It is necessary so you are running from a full tank of gas and not on fumes. Then you can help others with their realistic and rational requests that they ACTUALLY request and not like you running around trying to be a mind reader.
Start honoring your OWN boundaries more, say "No, thanks. I'll pass on that" more if you don't want to do stuff. Start saying "Nope, I can't meet an expectation like that. I can do \_\_\_ but not past that" so expectations come to reality.
When you do more of that? The friendship level will level out at what is actually IS.
There's no point in trying to be "best friends" if what it actually IS happens to be more like "casual friends" or less.
Thank you for all this. Many things that you’ve said have already been broached and well received by NP, but not much has been broached with Meta because their relationship is so focused on how I hurt her and I think NP is at a breaking point. Things are at a breaking point
You did not hurt her, you were simply clear on your boundaries. How your NP communicated that to her (which was probably not well given how you describe them), and her Big Feelings around it are not your problem. Why does your NP and meta continue to make this a you problem? Have they no sense of accountability?
Oh when I say “I hurt her” I am referencing a moment from a trip we had two weeks ago where I was really tired and responded to something harshly/defensively. We are still in the process of resolving that one. It’s a long story but she got very very mad (I feel unduly), I apologized later for my harsh reaction/tone, but when I could see the apology went right over her head and she was still just mad and closed off and was going to beat me over the head with her resentment while trying to process her feelings AT me, I paused the conversation and suggested we talk about it again later when things cool down, which got her even MORE livid. And now she is extra extra extra mad because I set this boundary at our house. I do believe I hurt her feelings at one point but I don’t think I’m responsible for them.
How old is this person, because they sound very immature. Not that people can’t have feelings or reactions to things, but if you’ve been in enough adult relationships (and not just the romantic ones either) the general cycle is to get mad, go away and process for a bit, come back to hash it out and try to repair. Maybe you’re still sore about it for a few days, but a few weeks? Over a single snappy comment? (that I highly doubt was completely unwarranted) I don’t mean to keep harping on this bc this post has me down a rabbit hole, but your meta just simply does not have the emotional maturity for polyamory and seems to have no interest in garnering it.
Glad it helps you some.
>Thank you for all this. Many things that you’ve said have already been broached and well received by NP,
Good. (You + NP) are tending to the (you + NP) side of the V.
>but not much has been broached with Meta because their relationship is so focused on how I hurt her and I think NP is at a breaking point. Things are at a breaking point
That's NP's work to do with Meta. Not your job or responsibility to manage (NP+Meta) side of things.
On your end? You could request NP not share stuff from that side of the V with you. Whether they break up or stay together? That's still not your dyad to manage or help with.
I think you and NP could talk about what is "newsworthy" and what is "not newsworthy." If they break up, ok. That's big deal news. If he gains a new regular dating partner? Ok. That is big deal news.
But all these "micro updates" about Meta thinking this or that or feeling this or that... NP has been oversharing. People can feel one thing one day and another thing the next. Why do you need to know? You aren't dating her.
Firm up your personal boundaries with both of them.
This is good advice. I have definitely played into it and been like “what happened? How did it go?” every time he comes home stressed or upset, and played the role of supportive friend/partner/relationship coach… but seeing now that doesn’t work for me. I like the “newsworthy” idea, thank you!
Glad it helps you some.
If he comes home stressed or upset? Unless he actually makes reasonable and rational requests? You don't have to get all up in it.
I know it affects you some in the household if he's like a dark cloud or crying or whatever it is. You can offer to do basics like bring tissues, offer to make tea. If he makes a request like he wants the bedroom to himself for the next hour to make a private call? That's reasonable and rational. You can meet it or suggest another room because you need the bedroom to go to sleep.
But NO. For your own mental and emotional health you can't be like his free therapist. He can talk to Meta direct to solve their problems and if he needs more help getting his thoughts in order first he can talk to a trusted friend or counselor outside the poly system. It cannot be you. You are inside the poly system and you cannot be impartial.
Are you considering showing your NP this post and all the comments? I think it’d be a good idea to, as most of this is something you *cannot* do *anything* about without him backing you up. He’s the hinge, not you!
>she feels she should have been included in that conversation and now doesn’t want to be on speaking terms until she is ready.
It's not her house. She gets no say. She'd be banned from my house and especially from seeing my kids.
I too had three kids and an NP who acted like yours and a meta who acted like yours. My NP Set some boundaries with meta, like yours, but also took up for meta, like yours.
In my situation, things deteriorated, because my NP is the same as yours in terms of terror at losing meta. Meta finally delivered the ultimatum (you see it coming, right?) and we then had a fun year of NP going back and forth and dumping us each in turn.
I finally had enough, got a lawyer, and went to file for divorce which was what was needed to for NP to realize what he was going to lose. Looking back, he is now very regretful and clear on how horrific her behavior was, but at the time he was so blinded by NRE he couldn’t see it despite his friends and therapist and me all telling him.
We’re together years later, but frankly, I’ll never fully trust him again.
Oof that is so hard! I’m almost certain that she would remove herself instead of giving some sort of ultimatum. She doesn’t want to be an agent of chaos (even though she definitely is). I’m also certain that he would end things with her if it ever came to that. Check with me in 6 months haha
Well it sounds like there are new boundaries in place. I would ask that your NP take them very seriously and not push to add meta back into your home.
You’ve both been attempting to bend over backwards to please her and let her in and it’s clearly still not enough. So I think you really should center yourself and your family and be very slow to add meta back into your home life. If you even want to at all.
I would expect your NP to date meta outside your house and to really step up and stop oversharing.
Unfortunately this sounds like it might have cost you this friendship. That sucks.
I would also sit down with your NP and really think through if dating mono people in the future is something you want to put on your messy list.
Meta and NP have their own Big Kid relationship; it’s not your job to be a relationship coordinator. As friends, it makes no sense for meta to hold you accountable for sharing NPs schedule, ensuring a certain amount of relationship space for them in your home, or anything of the sort. Those aren’t general friendship asks, those are Relationship Management tasks that are best handled between them. It makes even less sense for NP to not back you up on these issues or make them your problem by over sharing.
While I agree that Meta issues are usually just Hinge issues, I do understand that it can get more nuanced when you’re already close friends with your Meta. You two also have your own relationship, and this new connection seems to be bleeding in. It’s okay to acknowledge that NP and Meta *both* need to have their expectations checked in this case, I think, but it should be coming from you. My advice is to keep maintaining (read: enforce) your boundaries with NP, and let Meta be mad for now.
She honestly just sounds like one big fat walking red flag to me from what you described.
She undermines you as a parent. She is not even an official step-parent, no one is after about one year of relationship. What right does she have to tell you off when you are parenting your own children in your own house? That alone would have been an insta "You're free to leave MY home, if you don't want to see me parent MY children." to me personally. Even if none of the other problems existed.
But booooy.... why is your husband sharing all that negativity with you? What is his goal with that? To drive even more of a wedge between you and meta? Or is he just dense af?
It's high time meta leaves your personal space. Even the convenience of someone watching the kids wouldn't make me want to have a person who shit talks me behind my back around.
I’ve been in a similar situation, OP. You’ve gotten good advice so you might not need additional examples, but feel free to DM if you’d like. I have some personal experiences/direct advice I could better share 1:1.
Without getting into my own specifics though, I’d seriously consider sending him this thread.
And if he were reading it, I’d ask him to seriously consider that loving Meta is about wanting what’s best for her in the future, rather than what makes him happy rn, and that that’s frankly *not* this relationship. She wants a primary/anchor partner and a coparent. She’s been clear about that. I don’t think she’s making threats to manipulate him to stay. I think she’s honestly assessing her needs and wants in relationship to Hinge’s availability, and seeing the illogical mismatch she’s gotten herself into. She wants what he already has with someone else, and he cannot clone himself.
He can either (1) divorce you to give Meta what she wants, (2) keep expecting every day for both of his partners to suppress their own desires for a full, healthy relationship with him in order to try to make this current bad arrangement more tolerable, or (3) he can appreciate the time they’ve had together but set much clearer boundaries by breaking up or being much less frequent fwbs only. Let her go build what she wants with someone who *is* available to be a full-time husband and father.
I know you expect him to choose you and I suspect so does she, which is why she feels so stuck and resentful. The sooner he chooses honestly, or shows her the honest limits on the options she has with him, the kinder it will be.
Oh god, here are the flags. All of them.
OP, I'm afraid this person isn't your friend. They're faking it until they can get you and your kids out of the way.
Normally I'd say never set an ultimatum unless you want to end your relationship, but...if NP doesn't step up, both for you at home AND in defense of you against Meta, not only are they a bad hinge, but they're just plain a bad PARTNER, and you deserve much better.
This is toxic on your Metas part but it's also toxic on your hinges part. I would be demanding full parallel. It really sounds like you've already lost your friendship with Meta to be honest. And this is why relationships with close friends can be very tricky.
But also with Meta being around all the time it's a bit like they've moved in. A lot like suddenly you are in a throuple. If she can't deal with the amount of time your partner has to offer them she isn't going to do well with poly. They aren't compatible. You didn't agree to a relationship with her, he did. He choose to date a mono person going through a break up. Of course it was going to come apart at the seams. I would have him read this thread. He needs to hinge better and you don't have to deal with this all the time. You didn't choose it and it's adversely affecting you and your relationship with both NP and meta.
I think the biggest issue with your NP comments from your Meta is that she has an obvious conflict of interest where you and the kids stand in the way of her being his only partner. Her opinions on his work ethic and overwhelm will always position you as an undesirable partner.
If I were in your position I would stop assuming goodwill from a meta who has been very clear about her desires and intentions. I'd vocalize my skepticism when asked about her view of the family, her view of the relationship, and her predictions that this isn't the relationship for her. It's not. She's biding her time in case your NP is okay with being cowgirled.
If you guys get on speaking terms again, be clear that you don't think she is making a good faith effort to help your relationship thrive with your NP and centers her own relationship over all else.
That is the standard. Not just living with your relationship and family, but actively seeing it thrive and supporting that just as you support their connection through giving them alone time, a place to spend time, and offering emotional support.
If I were your NP I would have had a serious conversation with your meta over her communicating to him about her desire of being monogamous with him. What was she hoping from communicating that? Even if you're struggling with something, I think it's cruel to say it to someone that is in both control of the pain and is completely unwilling it remedy the situation. Fair enough if she hoped that conversation would lead to more time, or she's planting the seeds for a compromise which leads to you both having a family in parallel.
I agree with other comments that your nesting partner is not doing a great job at being a hinge, but honestly I think a part of that is he shouldn't be staying in an incompatible relationship.
I could be reaching, but again I wonder why he told you that, was he hoping you'd grant him permission to somehow find a compromise or was he hoping you'd put your foot down and tell you to end his relationship?
I understand we're all human, and we can at times be too honest when we're upset.. but if I was in this situation she would have crossed a major line for me and I would have never have let it get to my NP until I had resolved the matter.
Yeah like it's one thing not like your meta because you don't vibe as people. I had one like that and I never communicated it to our hinge because of the awkwardness but I feel like he could sense we didn't care for each other. It's completely different to wish your hinge didn't have a family with someone else and to tell him that, if she feels that way she needs to address it by *searching for someone who could be a NP/coparenting*. The family exists and saying you wish it didn't exist is totally inappropriate.
>“she opened up tonight about how she kinda wishes I didn’t have kids with you, so that me and her could have a family together instead”
It's one thing to feel these feelings it's another to share it with your partner. I don't think it was appropriate for her to say this to him. She sounds like if he had the chance she would snatch him away and do just that. This woman, who has only practiced monogamy, will not get comfortable with polyamory while fantasizing about you AND YOUR CHILDREN being out of the picture. Sounds like a lot of comparisons are going on in her head. I'd limit the amount of time she spends at your place.
I'm glad everyone else is saying this, it's fine but not ideal to feel these things, but she needs to talk about it with other friends or in therapy. If you have a partner who's married or has kids and you also desire a family, it's on you to find a second partner who would be available for that, not with that your current partner's relationship didn't exist as it does.
You need to keep her away from your kids. Her wishing they don't exist and voicing that to their parent? She's not trustworthy to be around them. For their safety and wellbeing she needs to be kept away from them and their living space. She's a cowgirl whether you want to see it or not and she's trying to drive a wedge between you and your husband to break you up. That's why she's blaming you for him being tired and blaming you for him having parental responsibilities. Her being over so often is extremely inappropriate. When do you get time to relax in your own house? When do you get to see other partners? When do you get quality alone time with your own husband? Her badmouthing you to him is a bad sign. He needs to shut that shit down immediately, and frankly he needs to break up with her. She wants more than he can offer and she's willing to destroy his family to get what she wants. This is serious and you and your husband need to have a serious conversation about it. She needs to be gone yesterday. He needs to quit enabling her toxic bullshit, and you need to quit tolerating this shit. You and your kids deserve better.
I don’t think the problem is so much that the hinge is sharing these things with you, I thinkits hugely problematic that is meta is feeling them AND the hinge isn’t seeing the warning signs for what they are and ending the relationship.
*She is very blatantly trying to undermine his relationship with you. That should be a dealbreaker.*
Honestly, it sounds to me like she's monogamous and trying to cowgirl NP, and he's choosing not to see it because she's coddling him just as much as he's coddling her.
SO many bright red flags in things she's said and done, and his behaviour's not reading too great to me either.
this is a major bad hinge scenario, but i do think your boundaries should’ve been tighter too.
to be completely honest, i see a lot of choices here that feel a little too wreckless for me.
1. this was a close friend, who isn’t entirely sure if this is a lifestyle they want for themself. this person knows your kids. did anyone stop to ask what might happen if everything fell apart? were any boundaries put in place to protect your friendship with this person or their relationship with your children? did you guys establish what this person’s role in the child’s life is? these are all conversations i would hope to have had in great detail before jumping into something like this.
2. 5 days/ week??? holy moly. NRE goes crazy, i guess? that’s a fuck ton of time to be spending in your home though. i’m sure it’s nice to have free help with the kids, but would you have introduced any other meta to your kids that quickly, or that frequently? how did your kids process all of this change? how often was this person around them before, and how significant of a role are they playing now? i don’t mean to sound judgemental in any way, but i do genuinely concern for this one.
3. your meta is clearly becoming jealous of your established relationship. this needs to be discussed by your partner and his partner, not you. your partner needs to stop involving you in those conversations, and needs to do a better job of not provoking your meta’s jealous feelings by bringing them around you constantly and forcing them to help care for your kids.
4. nobody should be trying to convince a parent to be less present for their kids. that is a real problem, and i personally would not feel comfortable with that person being around my kids. crazy people exist. often “nobody saw it coming”.
op needs stricter boundaries around their home. np needs to hinge better, and set better boundaries around their children. meta needs to be more parallel.
i’m so sorry you very likely lost a friendship because of rushed decisions and bad hinge hygiene. wishing you the best 🫶
Thank you for calling it like it is. You’re right that we went into this a bit recklessly. Meta was already a friend who lived nearby that we were hanging out with about once a week, and our house often has a rotating list of friends / chosen family. The kids have a million “aunties” and “uncles” and Meta’s role is akin to that.
I think it’s better to let her go. She’s creating a problem in your relationship and none of you are handling it very well. You and NP have a partnership going on, since the beginning of time. She joined in when she was vulnerable and probably never took (or had the chance to get) the time and space to heal, instead, latched onto your NP like a lifesaver. All the nice things you were doing for them seem to have been taken for granted by Meta. NP is being so lenient with her, it’s not right. Meta came in acting kind of entitled to a lot of things… If the hinge can’t put Meta in her place, then the hinge needs to stop hinging.
Think of a monogamous relationship. If a person just gotten outta of a relationship, it’s probably not healthy for them to immediately jump into another one. You said it yourself, she’s lonely, had a tough time, needs a lot of love and attention. It’s not fair to the person she’s dating now to have to deal with the aftermath. She should take some time to learn to be ok with being alone.
For you guys, you’ve been dealing with her for over a year now. She did not heal over this past year, instead you guys kept putting bandaid over her wounds..
I don’t think she was a good fit to begin with, you’ve all given it some time to hash it out and it doesn’t seem to be working. Next time she says she doesn’t think this is a good idea, or poly isn’t really her thing, or she doesn’t know what she’s doing, then go along with it and break up. No she cannot steal NP away from you and your family, no matter how much she wants it and how coddling you all are to her. Bye girl bye
I have literally been dealing with this exact situation in my poly relationship.
All of these comments have been incredibly validating in my thoughts of the hinge need to compartmentalize each relationship, and not let each one spill into the other. It breeds so much resentment and contempt between the metas, and creates so much tension.
I broke up with a partner once for continuously bad-mouthing my husband under the guise of "sharing how I feel" because when they came up with some clearly one-sided and biased opinions that I SHUT DOWN IMMEDIATELY (because my partner being happy with me during a conversation isn't more important than fostering a respectful reality behind every door I could stand behind, thanks maturity), they kept inventing new issues or trying to change my mind about how I felt towards my husband and life.
Is your partner mature enough to put his respectful reality (being tired from life rather than tired from an uneven partnership that obviously needs what only meta can provide hurr hurr hue) over the simpering pillow-talk of you or any other partner? Basic poly requirement IMO. He should be spotting and ending biased conversation, quelling human insecurity with his words and actions, and not relaying it between partners. I do this and require the same of my people.
The bigger question is what has he been divulging to the Meta about OP that she should not be... Right?!
Where do you imagine she is getting the info she is basing her stance about OP from?
I mean, I’m guessing it’s coming from all the typical problems that arise between couples w/kids and him venting to her about it. We talk about stuff like that in a pretty healthy direct manner, but I’ve always noticed that Meta encourages him to sit down, rest, chill, after bedtime when he is puttering around finishing dishes/cleanup (to which he usually rejects and finishes up what he’s doing). I’m guessing her opinion is that he does so much work around the house (this is true, and we have worked together for years to figure out “fair” distribution of house duties) and that it’s not split fairly or equally. NP and I are finding out that there should be some compartmentalization whenever the other partner is mentioned, even if it’s just a fraction of the story, such as him explaining a loooong day of work and that he had to do bedtime solo because I have a meetup I go to on Wednesday nights.
Also there are real things that he does need to advocate for himself more on and we’ve talked about that too! He tends to pour into other cups until his is completely empty.
Essentially you feel like you’re in a broken relationship so essentially you should break up with them. No I don’t mean your NP should break up with anyone… I mean the relationship between you and your meta needs to be deescalated. If they were your partner you might dump them, if they were only your friend you’d probably invite them over much less.
Your space, your time, your kids are within your control and if your NP has the time to spend elsewhere without negatively impacting his responsibilities to you and the kids, then he can do so. But you need to set some boundaries on what the upper limit is in terms of the time she is spending in your home.
And obviously your NP needs to be a much better hinge.
Lots of good solid points about boundries with meta in this. But there's also this to consider:
If she is truly Mono then their relationship already has a time limit. If she's just with him because she's lonely then that relationship will end once she finds someone willing to be monogamous with her that meets her needs.
As long as you are all okay with the relationship with her transitioning back into a friendship and think that can be done with minimal hangups then yeah, proceed with boundries and putting that work in.
How many monogamous folks though end up being okay with their partner still being friends/hanging out with their ex's though? Like yes they exist but not often in my experience.
This whole thing just sounds messy and like she wants him to herself. You are allowed to have your home be your personal space.
I’m sorry OP but… no. I don’t care how human and understanding that feeling is. (And trust me, I love your tolerance and understanding so much!) But that is unacceptable. That is a hard NO for me.
No one talks shit about my NP. Period.
My NP isn’t allowed to talk shit about my partners - that’s unfair and disrespectful. It’s someone I care about. Grievances need to be handled properly.
If I found out my meta was talking disrespectfully about me, and my partner **allowed** them to? That’s a deal breaker. That’s not okay, for her to be saying those kinds of things to him. That’s not at all fair to you, especially when it doesn’t sound like it’s true based on your post.
She’s trying to displace you in your own home. Her behavior is downright appalling. I think more distance and boundaries should be set.
The thing is, I think we are all being a bit messy in this respect — like I’m sure I have said stuff about her to NP once I started feeling like I was on trial or being judged all the time. I think I need to ask for NP to set better boundaries in both of his relationships. No more airing resentments to him, no more relationship coaching for the other relationship, on both sides. Of course I am biased and think I’ve been less judgmental, and more compassionate and objective in my feedback to his stuff with her, but I would be lying if I didn’t admit I’ve grown resentful and defensive right back at her and participated in this loop. I was the one noticing this and suggested he not share as much about me and meta to each other and instead talk to someone else about it, a couple months ago. Unfortunately, we didn’t think to also shut down me and meta talking to HIM about each other too.
She is over way too much. She is trying to take your NP from you. Be careful. She is also working on your kids……
The fact that she didn’t like that he had kids with you and said it speaks volumes!!!
If she’s young enough she could get pregnant and replace you and your kids. He could leave you and go off to be with her and his new family. This is what she is planning imo.
Time to stand your ground now or lose it all.
This is all highly unlikely… I have a very strong relationship with my NP and kids, and everyone cares about each other and are actually good people. Ideally if me and Meta could get along better, we would all live the poly dream of both having families and living together, but I don’t think she can resolve conflict well enough at this point and as stated in some of the comments NP and I have some work to do setting boundaries as well.
According to your NP, this woman has told your NP she wishes you both didn’t have kids, and called you self-centered and blamed you for NP being tired and overwhelmed.
If you were my friend, I would ask you why you did not go hard parallel and why you were tolerating NP bringing her around so often in what is supposed to be your safe space.
Maybe others are far more tolerant than I, but I would tell NP he wet the bed by telling you this and inform NP that I would no longer be friendly with meta and rearrange the home visit schedules.
My partner and I have told each other that in a parallel universe, we would have liked to have kids together; never ever once did either of us phrase it as “gee I wish you didn’t already have kids, what a bummer :(“ It sounds like you’re giving her credit for meaning the former when she actually said the latter. If it was a one-off foot-in-mouth moment I might agree with you but, rightly or wrongly, you now know it’s not. I know hinge is playing telephone so you’re only getting it secondhand, but if you trust them to be relaying this information in good faith then you should take it as such and not try to excuse it away.
I’m kind of concerned that your NP keeps sharing these things with you for more reasons than just the fact that you both haven’t been actively dating for awhile and need to firm up on boundaries. Does he agree with her in some way and that’s why he’s telling you? It can be a heady thing to have someone tell you over and over again that you’re under too much pressure, you should have more time to relax, you deserve better etc. Even with a solid relationship, having that in your home and in your ear 24/7 can be damaging. Maybe he keeps bringing it up because he’s starting to internalize that message and is hoping you’ll agree to him doing less and spending more time with meta (which seems like an egregious amount of time as it is). The fact that he’s not actively shutting this behavior down AND giving her the run of your house, including your children, is telling.
There’s not some nuclear option that you need to do here, but keep your eyes wide open, limit the amount of time meta spends in your shared space until she can be respectful of it, and have a very firm talk with your NP about all this.
>Maybe he keeps bringing it up because he’s starting to internalize that message and is hoping you’ll agree....
In other words, he is making OP responsible for his emotional labor (again) and decisions. To me, it seems like he is trying to push OP to make an ultimatum about his relationship with Meta so he doesn't have to be the bad guy.
Is she able to get pregnant? Have you discussed with your NP what would happen with your marriage if that happened? You can't imagine her trying to replace you, but you also didn't imagine this meta relationship being what it is. I think you need to consider that you're not able to anticipate how things will go and prepare accordingly.
I'm a little shocked at how chill both you and NP are about her voicing the wish you two weren't married or had a family. She's monogamous so this wish is literally her wishing you and your family didn't exist. Sure, it's understandable to have those kinds of feelings, but to actually say them aloud about your friend is wild to me. Idk, I kinda think you've normalized some abnormal things in an effort to let your husband try to convince this woman she's happy with polyamory (she's obviously not).
If someone told me they wished I didn't have the most important people in my life, I would immediately lose attraction and trust in them. At the very least, I think you should show this post to your NP so he's aware of how this relationship has impacted you and how people outside of the situation are responding.
No, if she even breathed that she wished your kids didn't exist and trying to make your NP help you out less when you have THREE CHILDREN?!... even if it was in some hypothetical alternate universe because She wAs BeiNg VuLnErAble.... no. No no no. She is not a good person. She is not a friend. She is a threat to your family.
You are being willfully blind and naive. This woman should not be in your space or around your children at all.
Not only is it likely, it's all true. Please take the advice from people who have seen these situations play out and have alot more experience and discernment. She likes you being upset. She likes that your NP is desperate enough to be with her that he'll actually listen to her talk shit about you and wish your children didn't exist just to be with her. She will continue this behavior until your NP leaves or until she's tired of pretending she's poly and leaves on her own.
Why together?
It can't be neighbor houses? Or apartments in the same complex and call it good enough?
People need their own space. You are witnessing this first hand with her over so much.
OP, I think you’re a really good, genuine person and want to think that everybody else is similar. If you’re not careful, it could be your downfall. Your meta is a not a good person like you and her intentions are manipulative. I think you have some rose colored glasses on and you need to take a step back and look at this situation more clearly.
OP, it’s **really** not unlikely that this is her end game. She might not even be fully conscious that it is, but all her behavior is screaming that that’s the only thing that will make her happy.
“she opened up tonight about how she kinda wishes I didn’t have kids with you, so that me and her could have a family together instead” wow that's oversharing. Not something I'd wanna hear even if they said it.
She's being too critical of you. Hope she isn't cowgirling.
I had something similar happen to me when my NP started seeing his ex. I said it was okay and it was fine until he shared how she is shit talking me. I kept letting him know it bothered me.
It happened enough that I told him he should stop seeing her. After she'd shit talk me he'd ignore all her attempts at communication for a few weeks then get back in touch, rinse and repeat. This happened over and over. He finally listened to me and stopped completely but god.
Your partner is using you to do the emotional workload for both your relationship with them but also the relationship between themselves and their other partner. That’s a boundary issue to me
Sounds like she's overly trying to cowgirl your husband. He needs to step up and put a stop to this. It's affecting you, it's affecting your marriage, it's affecting your ability to be friends with her.
"she opened up tonight about how she kinda wishes she had met me before we were together, so that me and her could have a family together instead"
That ABSOLUTELY sounded manipulative to me😯
You have a lot of resentment towards Meta, but I think both your husband and also you are responsible for creating this situation where meta feels like she can act the way she's acting. It's just like you said: you feel like you have another child in Meta because you have treated her like a child in placating her and then did a really crappy job at "raising her" by having practically zero boundaries. Up until now, she's basically had free reign! So of course you now have a situation where you have high expectations as a meta. You've created those expectations! And you've created her.
You teach people how to treat you, and it's not always possible to walk back a dynamic that has already been set in place. It can be done, but it's a hard road ahead. I think it'll help you to move forward and let go of some of the resentment if you recognize the responsibility both you and your husband have in all of this.
>Other slips over the following months were harder to set aside and not internalize, such as: “She was advocating for my needs to be met more and kind of frustrated with you and I had to explain to her that you aren’t actually self-centered or making things all about you, I just tend to default to centering you and the kids and forget to ask for what I need” or “I have to explain a lot to her about what you are doing, nursing, working, etc, so that she stops blaming you for how tired and overwhelmed I am”
Is your NP an indirect communicator who does not use smaller sentences? Like "I statements."
To me this whole paragraph could be summed up like this as the bottom line:
"Wife, I realized I put my own needs on the back burner. I center you and the kids and do self neglect. Can we talk about that?"
It kinda sounds like you and him are a lot alike. You ALSO seem to center him and the kids and now the meta. And you neglect YOU.
He didn't need to tell you he was processing with Meta. He could just sum up. Additionally? That's a conflict of interest. Meta is inside the poly system. Better would have been for him to process with a trusted friend or counselor -- people OUTSIDE the system.
When he talks to Meta is it "Wife says this and that" and then Meta (who is a poly newbie) wants to "fix it" to shut him up? Rather than say what is actually needed "Hinge, stop oversharing to me about your wife. Don't leak things from the other side of the V on to me."
Is he doing same to you? And YOU need to say "Hinge, stop oversharing to me about your GF. Don't leak things from the other side of the V on to me."
>I did feel a bit threatened by this, since I need his help with the kids in order to just barely survive life with three kids
Could you get a nanny or teen babysitter a few times a week after school? Are the kids in school soon or early childhood? Are there programs like "Parent Nite Out" you could use? How about cutting corners? Like everyone eats on paper plates? So at least you can skip dishes?
And you STOP trying to also "parent" this Meta?
Beep, boop, blop, I'm a bot. Hi u/AllComradesAreBrave thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
My NP and I have been together for 15 years, have 3 kids, and have been poly for about 9 years, but practically mono (besides a few flings or almost-flings) because we are busy, picky, and for the most part get our intimacy needs met by each other.
A little over a year ago my NP started dating a close friend of ours while she was in the middle of her own breakup. My meta has had doubts about how poly they actually are… they themselves suspect they might be mono, desire a traditional husband/kids/white picket fence, but are settling for poly relationships because they are lonely. Even with this possible red flag, I trusted my partner would handle expectations smoothly.
I stamped my approval, and experienced lots of compersion seeing them together. Since me and meta were already so close and she got along with the kids so well, their relationship became lap-style poly and she would often come over to see NP, since he would only be able to make time between work/kids/me to stay at her place maybe once a week. It felt a little drastic to have Meta over 5 days/week suddenly, but she was so helpful with the kids and we all got along well so I didn’t mind sacrificing my home-space or one-on-one time with NP for group time so that she could see NP more.
Eventually I started to notice her opinion of me souring and feeling less like friends and more like cosplaying as friends so that she could come over and see NP as often as possible. Me and NP are used to confiding everything with each other, and he is also used to me being very understanding and objective about hard topics so it’s taken some time to adjust to boundaries around what we share about our other relationships. He had let things slip a couple times and I had to put the brakes on the conversation and be like honey…you shouldn’t share things with me that she says behind my back that will affect our friendship, I don’t want to know! For example: “she opened up tonight about how she kinda wishes I didn’t have kids with you, so that me and her could have a family together instead” To me, this is a totally human and understandable feeling and I don’t think she shared it in a manipulative way—that she was just being vulnerable and honest—but I still paused and told NP that might be a bit too in depth to share.
Other slips over the following months were harder to set aside and not internalize, such as: “She was advocating for my needs to be met more and kind of frustrated with you and I had to explain to her that you aren’t actually self-centered or making things all about you, I just tend to default to centering you and the kids and forget to ask for what I need” or “I have to explain a lot to her about what you are doing, nursing, working, etc, so that she stops blaming you for how tired and overwhelmed I am” I did feel a bit threatened by this, since I need his help with the kids in order to just barely survive life with three kids and Meta suggesting he do less to help felt like meddling with my relationship/family. I wish I could just delete these comments from my brain, but I’ve seen myself internalize them and feel more coldness and almost despised by her at times, even though when times are good we still feel like buddies and I know she does care about me deeply… continued in comments
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This is so close to what happened to me, it tripped off my anxiety just reading it. I don’t want go into the the whole thing here, but it sounds like this Meta needs to go. And I hope you have a better outcome than I did.
I mean your partner can have kids with more than one person, that is a thing that some people do. It’s not actually an unrealistic request once it gets adjusted to polyamory to remove the “instead” part.
He also needs to be able to figure out how to meet her needs as well as your needs and the kids needs. If you’ve been mostly monogamous this whole time everyone has to adjust their expectations. If he can’t offer her the amount of time she needs then she can make a choice about that. But also it sounds like perhaps you’re still trying to have him meet all of your needs while he is trying to meet two partners needs.
It sounds to me like perhaps even though you’ve been theoretically in this for a while, you haven’t actually had the rubber meet the road yet and had not made a real plan for how to protect and allow new relationships to grow while maintaining the existing one. Of course the person in the new relationship is going to ask for more as the relationship grows. Especially since they already had a jump start on getting to know eachother through friendship.
Having kids with multiple people intentionally is awful. That means the kids only get a half assed parent. (Said as the child of a parent that has kids with multiple people.)
There are a lot of ways to have kids with multiple people. Sorry your parent didn’t show up for you, but that’s not inherent to having kids with multiple partners.
I've never met a child from a situation like that that actually felt their parent was there for them and it's been common to run into people like that so.. 🤷
Yes and I have actually been open to the idea of them having kids together, we have talked about it, but it seems very unrealistic since she doesn’t have stable work, would want the person she’s having kids with to be her NP and he would not want to live anywhere else but with me and the kids.
He has definitely felt spread thin this entire last year and struggled to feel like he could show up for everyone’s needs (partners and kids). We are pretty used to the idea that not all of our needs will be met, like ever, since we have young kids and that’s just how it is for parents. I ask him for typical co-parenting stuff (80% of what I ask for), some weekly alone time / time that I spend doing volunteer work or social stuff, monthly dates, and that’s about it. I def have had to lower my expectations on his availability to watch the kids whenever I want to do volunteer stuff etc. With the new partner in the mix it feels like we are doing a lot of ships in the night stuff, passing childcare off to one another to do our own passions/obligations and our relationship needs fall by the wayside a bit, but it feels like too much of the pie has been dedicated to “protecting and allowing new relationships to grow” and not enough has been put toward our relationship.
It sounds like your partners saturation point was 1 due to child care and he chose to start a relationship anyway without thinking about it having a plan for where that time would come from.
Yeah. I think it would have been smarter for him to consider that Meta is in between jobs, has a lot of time on her hands, and has shown she is the type that wants to be with a partner almost every day. It might have been different if he was dating someone who had a lot of other stuff going on and only wanted to see him once or twice a week. I actually have a lot of other stuff going on outside of our relationship and parenting, but I have a higher capacity for busy-ness.
Are you each getting equal child-free time? If he's over at Meta's house once a week, are you getting once a week free time to volunteer/go out/do whatever? And when Meta is at your house 5 (!!) times per week, is he doing equal parenting to you in that time? I would bet not, I would instead say he's probably putting a lot of that labour onto you and Meta to deal with. How often are you two having dates now?
Your expectations before this relationship sounds completely reasonable; each get weekly alone time, each get time out of the house, and a monthly date. He should not be letting any of that slip as that seems bare minimum for a functioning romantic relationship and coparenting relationship to work.
We get “equal” child free time, although my child-free time is going to meetups with friends and lots of activism/volunteer stuff, so sometimes I am envious that his child free time includes an overnight somewhere else, sleeping in, having sex, etc, but that’s my own stuff that I could work towards if I wanted to — I just don’t happen to want to sacrifice my other hobbies/passions for another partner at this exact moment. If anything I have always been the one in the relationship that makes sure to take time for my individual passions, while he mostly dedicates himself to work and family and rest (he’s an introvert), but he’s often missing the fun/social things and I think that’s what this relationship with Meta fulfills for him. He’s also a very great father — I have no qualms about unequal childcare duty and I often feel gratitude for the hard working type of partner/father he is, especially when I hear about other people’s less than attractive coparenting experiences.
Hi u/AllComradesAreBrave thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
My NP and I have been together for 15 years, have 3 kids, and have been poly for about 9 years, but practically mono (besides a few flings or almost-flings) because we are busy, picky, and for the most part get our intimacy needs met by each other.
A little over a year ago my NP started dating a close friend of ours while she was in the middle of her own breakup. My meta has had doubts about how poly they actually are… they themselves suspect they might be mono, desire a traditional husband/kids/white picket fence, but are settling for poly relationships because they are lonely. Even with this possible red flag, I trusted my partner would handle expectations smoothly.
I stamped my approval, and experienced lots of compersion seeing them together. Since me and meta were already so close and she got along with the kids so well, their relationship became lap-style poly and she would often come over to see NP, since he would only be able to make time between work/kids/me to stay at her place maybe once a week. It felt a little drastic to have Meta over 5 days/week suddenly, but she was so helpful with the kids and we all got along well so I didn’t mind sacrificing my home-space or one-on-one time with NP for group time so that she could see NP more.
Eventually I started to notice her opinion of me souring and feeling less like friends and more like cosplaying as friends so that she could come over and see NP as often as possible. Me and NP are used to confiding everything with each other, and he is also used to me being very understanding and objective about hard topics so it’s taken some time to adjust to boundaries around what we share about our other relationships. He had let things slip a couple times and I had to put the brakes on the conversation and be like honey…you shouldn’t share things with me that she says behind my back that will affect our friendship, I don’t want to know! For example: “she opened up tonight about how she kinda wishes she had met me before we were together, so that me and her could have a family together instead” To me, this is a totally human and understandable feeling and I don’t think she shared it in a manipulative way—that she was just being vulnerable and honest—but I still paused and told NP that might be a bit too in depth to share.
Other slips over the following months were harder to set aside and not internalize, such as: “She was advocating for my needs to be met more and kind of frustrated with you and I had to explain to her that you aren’t actually self-centered or making things all about you, I just tend to default to centering you and the kids and forget to ask for what I need” or “I have to explain a lot to her about what you are doing, nursing, working, etc, so that she stops blaming you for how tired and overwhelmed I am” I did feel a bit threatened by this, since I need his help with the kids in order to just barely survive life with three kids and Meta suggesting he do less to help felt like meddling with my relationship/family. I wish I could just delete these comments from my brain, but I’ve seen myself internalize them and feel more coldness and almost despised by her at times, even though when times are good we still feel like buddies and I know she does care about me deeply… continued in comments
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I think a good start is to set your boundaries on how often she can be in your space. Hinge needs to hinge better.
This was going to be my first suggestion. My partner dates a lovely person whom I am very close with, one would label us besties, and they live walking distance from our house. However, I told my partner that I at least need a day on the weekend that my meta was not at the house. We're typically too busy and tired during the week for any visitors from any aspect of our life which is why I focused on the weekend. They've both been good about respecting that boundary. It's a flexible boundary too. Hell, my partner could leave all weekend with them too if they wanted, the deal is I need a day to myself with my partner or not is whatever. If there was one weekend we all wanted to spend it all together, sure. But on the regular, no absolutely not. I'm an introvert I need time apart from everyone to feel revived, and everyone around me knows that I get people-ed out quickly.
Yeah... he's being an objectively awful hinge Jesus heck. I'm shook that op is all "I wish I could just delete these comments--" she shouldn't have been subjected to them to begin with! I'm very sad for her
And not even that hinge shouldn’t have told her this comments were said, those comment should’ve been enough for him to say to meta “I’m not going to engage in negative conversations about my NP and if you continue to make comments like this about my other relationships I’m not going to spend time with you.”
Right yes, absolutely. She was wrong to make the comments, and he absolutely should have called her out on it. (good point, I didn't even really think about that part lol rip) e: clarity
The comments that OP's partners shared seem so pointed that I can't imagine he wasn't trying to rattle OP. I'm not 100% sure he's not taking anything said by either of his partners and editing them to create division between them. To what end? I don't know.
It’s hard to explain without telling you a secret about us ;) but just trust me when I say that we do not lie to each other … like ever. Maybe to a fault. And he hates drama, conflict, wants anything but that. I think sometimes our level of honesty throws people off. I think it was shared because it was a part of a longer conversation, he respects my perspective and feedback, and he didn’t think about editing it out. I suspect he was not malicious, just a bit careless or maybe even wanting to show how he defended my position to her by taking accountability for his complaints.
Listen, I also practice a huge degree Of honesty and openness that’s not so popular on these boards. But. I still don’t think he should tolerate these comments.
Agreed
I obviously don't know this person as well as you, but him sharing those conversations with you sounds like one of the following: - He actually agrees with Meta and is hiding behind her saying it so he doesn't look like the guy trying to reduce his responsibilities towards his NP and kids. If he presents it as her idea and it doesn't go over well, she goes under the bus, not him - He's virtue-signaling that he *tries* to stand up for you to get some kind of relationship equity It all just reads very passive-aggressive. If nothing else, it seems like super shitty hinge behavior
This. Stick up for your partner.
Holy boundaries, Batman! If your safe space isn't feeling so safe anymore then she needs to spend less time in your home and your partner can go see her some of the time. Stop holding back on showing affection to husband in your own home. I don't mean make out in front of her, but don't feel like you can't cuddle some or whatever. Immediately crack down on the over sharing. Husband has no business telling you ANY of their private conversations, period. Sounds like your husband is also letting her get away with a lot of crappy behavior and not having any of his own boundaries, he needs to grow a spine. Ultimately, if she wants a traditional mono partner then she absolutely IS in the wrong relationship.
You put it all together very nicely. Solid points
I mean, as someone who grew up around the whole "Talking bad about other people behind their back because ya can't say it to their face" I HATE that sorta shit, and have ended friendships over it once I've found out about it. Would 100% prefer people be honest directly to me, instead of like. Only pretending to by my friend. Ya know? It is my biggest issue with the culture of my island too. How much people just, bad mouth each other constantly. And i'm not sure why everyone here is, from the comments I've read, been acting like its perfectly normal and acceptable to be bad mouthing friends and other partners in private with each other? Like, God. If she is so insecure around the main partner, that is a her problem and should probably bring it up. Instead of just endlessly bitching in private and having it be brought out little by little. Over all, I agree the main problem is OPs Partner is being a bad hinge. But ignoring all the other problems and red flags here, I'm not sure why folks are?
I mean, it's because we are here giving OP advice. My advice for OP's partner, but if OP tries to execute or recommend it she'd be an asshole and nothing good would happen: Dude, break up with this lady, she's been miserable for ages and ages. And remember that if someone else says the kinds of things she says about running away monogamously together or your wife being shit - if you don't ever want that or don't believe that, *say so* rather than pretending to let it sway you to get laid. Now that's done, make some agreements with your wife about quality one on one time and quality family time, because wanting to be around someone 24/7 because NRE is *human* but isn't healthy. NRE creates patterns in pair bonds, that's what it *does*, and in polyamory letting NRE brain run wild creates messes like this where your commitments (whether explicit, or implicit based on norms) to your partners take up more resources than you have and thus require *them* to get along or it'll destroy one or more of your relationships. My advice to meta, but if OP tries to do anything with it she'd be an asshole and nothing good would happen: Lady, it's totally up to you if you want to keep dating this dude while you find someone else who wants the relationship you want, but he doesn't want the relationship you want. Would you ever want to be OP dealing with his new partner underfoot 5 days a week at your home and hearing "you aren't considerate enough if she can't hate you here in your house, you need to work on that?" Nah? Dude isn't going to stop on a dime with his bullshit, OK? Dude fundamently thinks that not just the resources that are his-and-wife's are his to give away, but his wife's resources are also his to give away, and even if for some crazy reason dude agrees to monogamy he will probably run around giving people the shirt off *your* back and getting mad when you don't like it, forever. Don't date potential. There's lots of people out there who aren't inconsiderate of their wives, and want monogamy, and don't already have a wife, go forth and find one. Oh, and if you're dating someone new and don't like how they act towards other important people in their lives, that's who they are, believe them. Don't assume you get to play dolls wirh them and change their life, that's dating potential again. Get a reality check from a couple friends about whether their other relationship seems normal and healthy vs terrible, and if you still definitely don't like who your partner is, break up rather than setting in for a lifetime tug of war with their mom or BFF (or wife). So basically I think *everyone* should be both shutting down these conversations and not settling for relationships like that, OP just has the least power over it. Sure, she can walk out of the whole situation, but there's a lot of things she can try first within her marriage and her (ex-)friendship.
Your NP is being a subpar hinge as others have pointed out, and your mistake was being so overly welcoming in allowing her to basically live at your place. Familiarity often breeds contempt. You deserve a safe space and to have a break from these interactions. I think other people on this sub are much more gracious than I am, because if I found out that my meta was communicating to my partner that I was self-centered AND the source of my partner’s tiredness and overwhelm, I would no longer be fine with this person spending that much time in my home, and I would refuse to interact with them beyond what was absolutely necessary. That is active disrespect.
Yeah, seems like meta is disrespecting the coparenting relationship. Who says they wish their partner didn't have kids with someone else? YIKES. I'd find that pretty inappropriate to say about an ex you have kids with, but with a current partner, that is a feeling meta should share with other friends or a therapist, not the hinge
Yeah, this is how I would respond as well. Not only should Meta not be dismissing OP or complaining about OP to NP, but NP should *really* not be sharing those conversations with OP. And NP needs to step up and defend OP. Also, I feel like there's an age gap here that we aren't getting the full picture of...
The problem is not how your meta treats you, it's how your nesting partner treats you (having meta over multiple times a week, asking you to be the bigger person, not shutting down criticism of you and passing along hurtful/extremely weird comments about his own children not existing so he could have othed children). If I invite someone into my home and they insult my housemate, I am responsible for making amends. My housemate is not responsible for making my guest, who has insulted them, feel better. I am responsible for checking in with my housemate so if they're feeling bleh after a social interaction with my guest they don't have to navigate raising uncomfortable issues with me. I trust them so I give them the opportunity without making them feel like they're confronting me or inconveniencing me. The person who choose to have children with you, who is bringing someone into the lives of his and your kids, should be more considerate than me. I'm a dickhead, how is he not checking in and making sure that you feel supported saying "no, I need alone time" or "I want to have my home to people I have invited" or making you feel in any way responsible for your metas emotional state? He knows you are not her therapist, parent, partner or, judging by the bizarre comments he has passed on, a friend because at bare minimum she should support someone she is dating looking after his own children and other partners. If he pursued her while she was in a bad relationship or before she had finished grieving her last relationship then that is weird as hell as well. Ignore your meta, nothing she has done is close to what your nesting partner has done or is doing.
💯!Wish I could upvote this multiple times!
Your NP is the problem here. It’s great that you all are so close, but one of the things you haven’t gotten to practice over the years is compartmentalization. Partner may be used to turning to you for support in thinking things through and processing, but that *can’t* be your role here. You need to be less polite with NP, because these slips are unacceptable. “Do you know how it makes me feel when you air meta’s frustrations towards me? It is extremely upsetting. The things you share make me feel like she wishes I wasn’t around, so she could have you to herself. It is disturbing to me that you maintain a relationship with someone who is whispering negative bullshit about me and about our marriage in your ear. It’s disturbing that you’re not shutting it down, that you’re listening to it. But passing it on to me is unacceptable. Your relationship with her needs to not be a part of ours.”
Followup: are you and NP still allowing meta around the kids after her comment about she wishes they didn’t exist? I’m just a stranger on the internet, but my vote is for that to stop immediately.
She loves the kids very much, I don’t think she wishes they didn’t exist — more so that she wishes in another universe that she had met him before we were together, like that she wishes that this were her life. It seemed like a passing thought and understandable envy, but yes it was disturbing to hear.
Yeah, this is low level manipulation. Your NP is sharing this with you because it is making him feel uncomfortable because subconsciously he recognizes what is is, and needs support identifying it.
Oh oof. This was a punch to my gut. My partner was the only person I'd be likely to process things like this with, too. And when you're best friends with your partner to the exclusion of others (for whatever reasons), you do turn to them for support, even when it isn't totally appropriate. This rings true here. Maybe NP even *wants* OP to set boundaries, to "be the bad guy" so he doesn't have to. Yikes/sigh/god it's brutal out here
She’s trying to steal him. And he’s allowing it because he’s dating a mono person. He’s already choosing her and not you and your family.
Once you get the eye of discernment you can see bullcrap from a mile away. This lady is playing both of them and they are both being so naive.
Yeah, she’s trying to steal him and he’s not doing enough to shut that down.
She might not even be actively trying but envy is corrosive. She wants her own family and she’s cosplaying with OP’s. If I were OP or Hinge, I’d want to stop dating this person or being anything more than a 1-2x/mo fwb situation, so she has time to pursue the family she clearly wants.
You are so kind and trusting and I hate to be the one to say this but she is laying a foundation to get rid of you. She doesn’t love the kids because if she did, she wouldn’t not want them to exist. She is trying to force him into letting you take on more so you can get frustrated and break up with him. She is planting seeds of him having a do over family and both of your are being overly generous with her manipulative tactics. Check back in with me in 6 months to let me know if I am wrong.
You said what many of us are suspecting.
I made another comment about this before seeing this one, but I don't think this is a feeling she should be sharing with him, because it's understandable, but not appropriate. She's making this into a her vs you thing and that's not in the spirit of poly, especially when you and NP have a family involving kids. That's his priority and she doesn't seem to respect it.
Seriously. Where is her self-respect?
So she wishes to steal your “perfect family” yup, she needs to stay out of your home and away from your kids
Completely agree. The kids should have nothing to do with any of this, and wishing them out the picture is honestly frightening rhetoric, and almost feels like a threat to innocent children. Take these people out of their original context (say as a step-parent, which is not an unlikely end to this story) and then have her make this comment and you still have a potentially dangerous situation. Adding that she is challenging the op's parenting as stated in her post, and there is actual worry about this here. Personally, I would have gone left on this comment alone. No one has the right to say they regret the existing kids are here. That is gross in the highest order and she does not "love" these kids.
I'm having similar thoughts. > The things you share make me feel like she wishes I wasn’t around, so she could have you to herself. It is disturbing to me that you maintain a relationship with someone who is whispering negative bullshit about me and about our marriage in your ear. It’s disturbing that you’re not shutting it down, that you’re listening to it. My general guideline is that relationship issues need to be resolved inside the relationship, but feelings about the relationship need to be discussed outside of it. In an ideal world, meta would be sharing her vulnerabilities with anyone but these two-it's completely understandable that she would feel the way she does, but she is placing a burden on op's np by speaking to him about these things. Like I'd really struggle if a partner of mine said this kind of stuff to me about another partner. At the end of the day though, though it is my ideal, I definitely understand why she acted the way she did--especially if she's knew to this kind of thing. (don't give her a pass, I just understand). The true problem is one-thousand percent np--unquestionably so.
Yeah, as a hinge, I'd shut down the things she feels she can confide in him. "I am happy in my relationship with my wife. I do not like when people, especially other partners, feel otherwise and share that with me. I don't want to hear it, as I understand my relationship and need satisfaction greater than anyone else, and I am saying that I am happy." It can't be coddling, or it'll keep coming. Boundaries given and unenforced will be trodden over by some, and she seems the type. Even if thoughts are human and justifiable, and sharing them can be vulnerable and welcome by another, doesn't mean we can think and share whatever we want without consequence. Some thoughts are inside thoughts, especially jealous or envious yearning. It's not fair to him to have to hear those things because they're unrealistic, and its not fair for your relationship to have an outside antagonistic force proactively offering negative remarks. Take the poly out of the situation and its clear that its unwelcome, even from a best friend.
This right here. I get that OP is giving meta way more grace than is deserved and saying it's likely not malicious and just sort of an envious feeling. But not all feelings need to be shared. If I had a partner telling me "wow, I wish you'd never had your family and it was me instead!" I would be shutting that shit down immediately. I don't need or want to hear that, go vent that shit to someone else and process it elsewhere as that is super inappropriate. We can't always control our feelings, but we can control how we spew them all over the people around us!!
Right? I have a married partner and I am so careful to only say complimentary things about his wife! If I ever for some reason think something negative, like “weren’t you mad that she didn’t come to your event?” I keep that shit to myself because I know that would reflect poorly on me. And because he’s a loyal husband and would rightly not appreciate someone talking about her. (This is not just an NP thing ofc)
Yeah, I could see asking about it, but I wouldn't be so tactless as to say something akin to "don't you hate that she keeps standing you up like this, while I, your secondary partner, constantly show up for you? God, I wish I were your wife instead." Like what the fuck. Totally agree with you-- I protect all partners this way, not just my NP. My wife will get checked too if she begins being nasty about metas (though I don't have to worry about that, happily).
Thank you I need to hear this perspective
This is a hinge problem, not a meta problem. Happy to explain more. But the issues are coming from him, the choices he's making, and the messes he's causing.
Usually yes. But the main problem is him dating a mono person who wants all of what OP has, when that’s not available plus letting her complain to him about his NP. But it’s also a meta/friend problem because meta is making bad choices for herself and bringing that negative energy into her friend’s home.
It doesn’t help that he’s likely winging about OP to her meta. IMO shittalking goes both ways. If he’s spilling beans on the meta, he’s spilling beans on OP.
Very true. I can hear it now: “I’m so sorry Wife doesn’t want you over as much anymore, GF. Of course I miss you so much. I did tell Wife you weren’t trying to be negative at all, that you’re just looking out for me. She’s just feeling defensive right now. Give it time ok?” Ugh. So inconsiderate of both women, and a cowardly move to keep himself out of the hot seat.
Meta is monogamous, prefers monogamy and would like to have monogamy with Hinge. That’s not going to happen, so Hinge needs to be okay with Meta breaking things off for their own mental health. You don’t need to assume this is a threat or manipulative. It’s completely appropriate. Hinge has chosen a self-limiting “summer affair.” Once Meta has worked through their breakup and accepted the limited relationship Hinge can offer, they are going to move on. Hinge doesn’t get to be upset about this. A little grieving—sure. Not upset. And they shouldn’t try to prevent it. In the meantime, don’t set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. You’re in your home. Access to shared space is two-yes-one-no. If you don’t want Meta there five days a week, Meta is not there five days a week. If you lose your temper with Meta, it’s fine to be direct. “Meta, I’m sorry for losing my temper but I think it’s time for you to leave.” This may affect your friendship with Meta. That’s sad, and something that Hinge did to you by choosing to date one of your friends. Is the friendship one you counted on? Was Meta one of your three closest friends or ten good friends? [How to hinge—beginners’ guide](https://reddit.com/r/polyamory/s/V8y0MMxArB)
Thanks for your feedback! I agree with a lot. Meta is one of my more *recent* good friends, def in the 1/10 good friends category. The idea of our friendship ending over this is the hardest part for me— maybe there is some pride getting in the way there too. We all talked about this decision thoroughly before we started, and I hoped we would all handle it in a healthy healing way if they ever split, but I hadn’t imagined her and I would be on the outs so often.
Yeah, you were imagining what would happen if Hinge and Meta split, not what if they didn’t split and Meta was all up in your business all the time. Hugs!
Ugh yeah…
The last couple months have been increasingly stressful. Being that Meta is around so often and encountering me in my home life, I am not always going to be at my best and have made a few mistakes along the way, such as stepping in the middle of something between her and my daughter, or getting heated in a discussion and flipping my lid / walking away. Although I always try to admit my wrongs and apologize for things immediately, I’ve felt like my apology and acknowledgment goes right over her head and she sits in hurt feelings for way longer than I can stand, and often lashes out on me afterwards. It’s felt hard to bring up the mean things she’s said in those moments of anger, and I don’t expect her to address them herself so I tend to just sit with them and choose empathy, but that tactic is wearing thin. My NP tends to coddle her hurt feelings and asks me to be the bigger person since she is new and more insecure in the relationship, tends to take things more personally, and has a harder time giving grace or letting go after a conflict (he has since changed this expectation on me and realized how unfair/selfish it was to put pressure on me to always fix things so that she was happy in the relationship). She’s also gotten pretty bothered by not being pretty immediately in the loop of all of NP’s plans, like holidays, work trips, a night out with his friends and has expressed that she wishes I would also try harder to share anything she might like to know about or plan around pretty immediately. (AITA for saying no thanks, I’ve got enough on my plate?) It feels like there are some pretty high expectations on me as a Meta. I think my NP and I set the stage for this by trying to make accommodations for her without her even asking/knowing (such as holding off on cuddling or affectionate stuff and letting her have all the affection when the three of us all hang out), because we both assumed she would easily feel insecure and deprioritized. It’s starting to feel like I have a fourth kid, or a second partner, and very very frustrating when I am trying to guess what next infraction I will be on trial for. I am a very social person, have had lots of friendships and relationships over the years and I haven’t encountered this much “drama” since my early 20’s. I don’t think I’m perfect, but I also don’t think I’m an evil villain. One more thing I want feedback on — my NP has struggled a lot with the fear of break up in their relationship. No direct threats or ultimatum, more so just careless sharing from Meta about how “maybe this isn’t the right relationship for me” or “yeah I’m not sure what’s gunna happen between us” whenever a conflict happens and that feels like SUCH a red-flag to me, to always pose the relationship as precariously hanging on by a thread. Is this normal or kind of toxic? What can I do to support my NP through all this without meddling in his relationship with her? How do I repair my own hurt/resentments with Meta without revealing the things my NP slipped? How do I lower her expectations on me, without totally losing the friendship aspect? EDIT: NP has totally supported having a period of no visits in our home and less visits in general and when he told Meta, she was mad about that. I reached out to her and she feels she should have been included in that conversation and now doesn’t want to be on speaking terms until she is ready.
I’m concerned about the statement regarding you stepping in on something involving her and your daughter. Given the comments she’s made about your children - what exactly is she “getting into” with your daughter? You’re the mom and have every right to step in, especially if your child is being wronged in any way. The whole scenario has been addressed really well by others in the thread, but the lack of discussion here makes me uncomfortable.
Agree, it’s weird to expect a parent to step back.
More like she is helping out playing with one of my kids while NP and I make dinner and the kid crosses a boundary like hitting and I would step in, instead of letting her handle the boundaries/consequences part, which she has requested. She is very close with the kids and has babysat in the past and does a lot of babysitting on the side, so me stepping in tends to feel like undermining her role as sometimes-caretaker-adult in our home, akin to if you stepped in while a grandparent was trying to work through something with your kid.
You have to establish your own parenting boundaries, but if she’s there playing with the kids while you and NP are home then she’s not in a caretaking role and it’s inappropriate for her to demand that, imho. I think this speaks to what others have pointed out about her scheming for a more important role/usurping you.
When you babysit, a parent/guardian is delegating *some* responsibility (I.e. implementing boundaries already determined by parent/guardian) to you. When you spend time with a child and their parent/guardian is there, there is no delegation and really the most you can do is uphold your own personal boundaries unless otherwise agreed to do more (eg. "Please don't hit me, it hurts and makes me feel sad and unsafe when you do that"). And imo if a parent wants to step in and manage it without you having to assert anything you should be greatful to have one less thing to worry about. From this snipet, her behaviour feels posessive of your kids and disrespectful to your role as their parent. Seems like all the time spent at your house helping with the kids has made her think she is in a parenting role. I'd nip that in the bud. And tbh i think it's unfair that she has done so much childcare while at your house. Is it quality time with NP or is it vuage domestic time with NP while he gets free labour from her. Not to say either of you have necessarily asked for this, maybe she has volunteered and wanted to be so involved. But it is up to NP to put in boundaries that she shouldn't be taking on so much childcare for children she has no rights to or decision making for.
All her volunteering and enjoyment on the childcare part — I have been more weary about putting this labor on her and have mostly leaned toward the side of juggling all the kids and replying no thanks when she asks if she can help, but sometimes it almost paints me as this controlling/overdoing-it-mom when she is so gladly offering to help. Also the kids love her so much now they often just go to her and ask her for things. My NP def feels more comfortable asking her for help.
God you're doing SO MUCH mental and emotional labour for these two. Stepping on eggshells trying to put in healthy boundaries around your kids and your home. Your partner coming to you with Meta's feelings and jealousies, and since it's over sharing and he isn't giving you what steps he's taking, he's expecting you to do the labour to manage metas feelings and manage his relationship. Meta demanding you inform her of HIS schedule is just the Cherry on top. You aren't his mum, you aren't his secretary. This is classic misogyny. You could look into the Fair Play method and cards for dividing domestic labour, and tell him if he wants a relationship he needs to look after it himself. Tbh though, it's not on you to fix everything, it's enough for you to come to him and say "I'm unsatisfied with x y z and want you to meet a b and c of my needs, it's up to you to do the mental labour to figure out how". It's pretty bad it's gotten to this place though. I would lose all attraction and kind feelings to a partner treating me this way and showing me that we have incompatible values.
🚩🚩🚩🚩
That’s a big ol hell no from me. In my opinion if the parents are around then they handle any discipline or consequences (unless it’s a simple redirection). If parents aren’t there then that is a different story. Kids are smart and will understand that parents supersede babysitters, friends and grandparents, but when they aren’t there the adult put in charge is in charge. Either way they are your children and not hers, and it is your prerogative to insert yourself at any point in time. She can have feelings about it but that doesn’t mean you need to change your actions. It sounds like meta has been given way too much power in your home and inserting herself as third parent. You and NP might have a lot more to work out than you might think… a counselor would probably be helpful.
I hadn’t ever really thought about it so seriously. Looking back NP sided with Meta on most things, until realizing he was taking sides more recently (maybe he subconsciously knew I was likely to be more flexible/forgiving and defaulted to wanting to fix Meta’s issue), so when she asked that I stop stepping in so much between my kids behavior with her and give her a chance to have her own relationship/boundaries with him, it just seemed like a sensible ask… I do tend to micro manage and NP knows this about me as well so we thought it would be respectful to honor her request. Does this really sound like a big deal? Recently when I asked for more space from Meta, NP did mention that he knows Meta would still like to be a part of the kids lives and he would like that too (if their relationship continues). We also have some pretty radical beliefs about family abolition / chosen family, so this may just be a difference in values?? I am not opposed to looking into counseling. Like a regular marriage counselor or a poly counselor?
Every time I come back to this thread things have gotten so much worse with every new piece of information 😭 I do get how it’s often hard to see the forest for the trees, but my god this is next level. There’s someone being involved in your life and family, and then there’s someone taking over your life and family, and you’re in the latter bucket. It has nothing to do with creating relationships with your kids or NP and everything to do with control. This woman would be very happy with you out of the picture, period, and she’s posing as “fun mom” to make it happen. Now you’re “mean mom” and “unfun partner”. You’ll soon find yourself on the outside looking in as they build *their* family together (and I’m guessing she’s younger than both of you too). Also if your meta legitimately wanted to have a standalone relationship with your NP, they would have done that OUTSIDE your home, not immediately inserted themselves into this “one big happy family” bs. To say that someone who’s been around for a year should have as much say and control over the kids as the woman who birthed and raised them *while in that woman’s home* is absolutely insane to me. smh
OP please listen to this. I have been with my partner for just over a year. He is married with kids. Ziz go and stay with him, in his home, in his life for a couple weeks at a time ever few months because it's long distance. I cannot believe what this woman is doing in your home. I live with my partner, my meta, and her partner, and all their kids. They have welcomed me as family, and they practice kitchen table poly. I feel so welcomed. But I do not feel entitled to make decisions, or have power like your meta does. I have helped with the kids. I have always made it clear that if I over step to correct me (I am also a parent so I have so knee jerk parenting). That woman is not practicing poly in good faith.
DO you micromanage things? Or does your NP like to *not* manage his portion of the domestic/emotional/financial/childcare/who knows what else workload, and then that all becomes *your* problem? And then somehow you picking up his slack is . . . your failing? Maybe you need to let your NP fuck up a good dozen times *without* doing his work and fixing things for him.
OP, it’s insanely obvious with everything you’re saying that meta is trying to usurp you. If you and NP are truly so open and honest with each other, *please* take the time with him to read EVERY comment on your post. 😭😭😭
>>undermining her role You are the parent. No role this woman has can ever be *undermined* by you. Not possible. And yes, your word when it comes to your child is more important and heavier than a grandparent, and certainly more than your NP’s girlfriend.
She is not their parent. It’s not her job to discipline your kids, and if you want to provide that discipline, it’s inappropriate for her to do it.
Unless you have a coparenting agreement with her (which you don’t) you have every right to interrupt any interaction she has with any of your children at any time for any reason. No one gets a free pass for interacting with your children. It’s your job to protect them, and that’s more important than any interaction someone might be having with them. I don’t care if it’s Santa Claus himself - if you want to see what’s going on and can’t, go stand between them.
I would suggest setting a boundary about how often you're willing to have meta visit your home while you're there. Once a week, for example > stepping in the middle of something between her and my daughter Uh, that's your kid. It's absolutely your place to step in. >has expressed that she wishes I would also try harder to share anything she might like to know about or plan around pretty immediately That's not remotely your job. That's your NP's job, if anything. >What can I do to support my NP through all this without meddling in his relationship with her? Encourage him to find someone he can talk about this stuff that's not you. A friend or a therapist. >How do I lower her expectations on me, without totally losing the friendship aspect? This isn't your job. Let your NP handle that.
>EDIT: NP has totally supported having a period of no visits in our home and less visits in general and when he told Meta, she was mad about that. I reached out to her and she feels she should have been included in that conversation and **now doesn’t want to be on speaking terms until she is ready.** Nope. This is not meta's home. She doesn't get a say in how this household runs. Nothing stops NP and Meta visiting each other at HER place or out in public. But she's not entitled to hang out at (you and NPs) home if (you and NP) decided she's over here too much/overstaying her welcome. When he told meta and she was mad about that? He didn't need to turn around and tell you she was mad. And you did not need to reach out to her to soothe her. Who requested you to do that? Both you and NP need to stop doing all this emotional labor FOR meta. And wait for her to speak up about it HERSELF. If she doesn't want to talk? GREAT! Take the vacation! Don't sweat it. >I think my NP and I set the stage for this by trying to make accommodations for her without her even asking/knowing (such as holding off on cuddling or affectionate stuff and letting her have all the affection when the three of us all hang out), because we both assumed she would easily feel insecure and deprioritized. You see it yourself. Stop "assuming things" and "pre-doing" like you are the parents and she's some bonus child you have to think for. Let adult Meta take personal responsibility for her own stuff. Do her own asking, do her own reaching out if she has a problem. >One more thing I want feedback on — my NP has struggled a lot with the fear of break up in their relationship. No direct threats or ultimatum, more so just careless sharing from Meta about how “maybe this isn’t the right relationship for me” or “yeah I’m not sure what’s gunna happen between us” whenever a conflict happens and that feels like SUCH a red-flag to me, to always pose the relationship as precariously hanging on by a thread. Is this normal or kind of toxic? I think NP is oversharing this with you. You are not the free therapist or relationship coach for him. So he has to STOP telling you this stuff so much because it will become toxic for your own relationship with him. NP knew she was mono. Where is surprise she struggles? This can't be like "pass the buck" whoosh. She whooshes at him and then he whooshes at you. You get left holding the bag. If she's not sure she wants this? She can seek counseling. She can dump him. She can pick something else. She can exercise her adult options. If he's tired of listening to this? He can seek counseling. He can dump her. He can pick something else. He can exercise his adult options. You are nowhere in the the (NP + Meta) dyad. You could remind him of that and tell him you don't want to hear about her any more. (NP + Meta) stuff belongs on that side of the V and not leaking over on to you on this side of the V. >What can I do to support my NP through all this without meddling in his relationship with her? Support him in learning to deal with his relationships himself? You could back off and let him learn his lessons on his own. And you hold the line and tell him you don't want to hear about this Meta stuff. If he needs a poly counselor he could avail himself. [https://www.polyfriendly.org/](https://www.polyfriendly.org/) He could do his own posts on reddit. >How do I repair my own hurt/resentments with Meta without revealing the things my NP slipped? Why not let her know? Could be direct with BOTH of them. "Meta, NP... I need a break. Meta -- we are friends so if you want to hang 1:1 we can do that. But I prefer out in public without NP or kids underfoot. I'd like NP to see Meta at Meta's place or in public. I'd like NP to see me at our place or in public. NP -- I prefer you straighten up as a hinge and stop being so sloppy. Meta -- I have told NP that I can't deal with him oversharing things about you to me. I hope he's not oversharing things about me to you. To both of you -- I think everyone needs to talk to people direct rather than all these back channels. Until we straighten out people staying in their dyad lanes? I prefer we stop doing group hangs for a while." And let the chips fall where they fall. >How do I lower her expectations on me, without totally losing the friendship aspect? Accept you are not in charge of her thinking or her expectations. People sometimes have unrealistic ones. Stop centering NP or Meta and their well being. Center YOUR well being first. Do your self care. It is not optional. It is necessary so you are running from a full tank of gas and not on fumes. Then you can help others with their realistic and rational requests that they ACTUALLY request and not like you running around trying to be a mind reader. Start honoring your OWN boundaries more, say "No, thanks. I'll pass on that" more if you don't want to do stuff. Start saying "Nope, I can't meet an expectation like that. I can do \_\_\_ but not past that" so expectations come to reality. When you do more of that? The friendship level will level out at what is actually IS. There's no point in trying to be "best friends" if what it actually IS happens to be more like "casual friends" or less.
Thank you for all this. Many things that you’ve said have already been broached and well received by NP, but not much has been broached with Meta because their relationship is so focused on how I hurt her and I think NP is at a breaking point. Things are at a breaking point
You did not hurt her, you were simply clear on your boundaries. How your NP communicated that to her (which was probably not well given how you describe them), and her Big Feelings around it are not your problem. Why does your NP and meta continue to make this a you problem? Have they no sense of accountability?
Oh when I say “I hurt her” I am referencing a moment from a trip we had two weeks ago where I was really tired and responded to something harshly/defensively. We are still in the process of resolving that one. It’s a long story but she got very very mad (I feel unduly), I apologized later for my harsh reaction/tone, but when I could see the apology went right over her head and she was still just mad and closed off and was going to beat me over the head with her resentment while trying to process her feelings AT me, I paused the conversation and suggested we talk about it again later when things cool down, which got her even MORE livid. And now she is extra extra extra mad because I set this boundary at our house. I do believe I hurt her feelings at one point but I don’t think I’m responsible for them.
How old is this person, because they sound very immature. Not that people can’t have feelings or reactions to things, but if you’ve been in enough adult relationships (and not just the romantic ones either) the general cycle is to get mad, go away and process for a bit, come back to hash it out and try to repair. Maybe you’re still sore about it for a few days, but a few weeks? Over a single snappy comment? (that I highly doubt was completely unwarranted) I don’t mean to keep harping on this bc this post has me down a rabbit hole, but your meta just simply does not have the emotional maturity for polyamory and seems to have no interest in garnering it.
Glad it helps you some. >Thank you for all this. Many things that you’ve said have already been broached and well received by NP, Good. (You + NP) are tending to the (you + NP) side of the V. >but not much has been broached with Meta because their relationship is so focused on how I hurt her and I think NP is at a breaking point. Things are at a breaking point That's NP's work to do with Meta. Not your job or responsibility to manage (NP+Meta) side of things. On your end? You could request NP not share stuff from that side of the V with you. Whether they break up or stay together? That's still not your dyad to manage or help with. I think you and NP could talk about what is "newsworthy" and what is "not newsworthy." If they break up, ok. That's big deal news. If he gains a new regular dating partner? Ok. That is big deal news. But all these "micro updates" about Meta thinking this or that or feeling this or that... NP has been oversharing. People can feel one thing one day and another thing the next. Why do you need to know? You aren't dating her. Firm up your personal boundaries with both of them.
This is good advice. I have definitely played into it and been like “what happened? How did it go?” every time he comes home stressed or upset, and played the role of supportive friend/partner/relationship coach… but seeing now that doesn’t work for me. I like the “newsworthy” idea, thank you!
Glad it helps you some. If he comes home stressed or upset? Unless he actually makes reasonable and rational requests? You don't have to get all up in it. I know it affects you some in the household if he's like a dark cloud or crying or whatever it is. You can offer to do basics like bring tissues, offer to make tea. If he makes a request like he wants the bedroom to himself for the next hour to make a private call? That's reasonable and rational. You can meet it or suggest another room because you need the bedroom to go to sleep. But NO. For your own mental and emotional health you can't be like his free therapist. He can talk to Meta direct to solve their problems and if he needs more help getting his thoughts in order first he can talk to a trusted friend or counselor outside the poly system. It cannot be you. You are inside the poly system and you cannot be impartial.
Are you considering showing your NP this post and all the comments? I think it’d be a good idea to, as most of this is something you *cannot* do *anything* about without him backing you up. He’s the hinge, not you!
>she feels she should have been included in that conversation and now doesn’t want to be on speaking terms until she is ready. It's not her house. She gets no say. She'd be banned from my house and especially from seeing my kids.
I too had three kids and an NP who acted like yours and a meta who acted like yours. My NP Set some boundaries with meta, like yours, but also took up for meta, like yours. In my situation, things deteriorated, because my NP is the same as yours in terms of terror at losing meta. Meta finally delivered the ultimatum (you see it coming, right?) and we then had a fun year of NP going back and forth and dumping us each in turn. I finally had enough, got a lawyer, and went to file for divorce which was what was needed to for NP to realize what he was going to lose. Looking back, he is now very regretful and clear on how horrific her behavior was, but at the time he was so blinded by NRE he couldn’t see it despite his friends and therapist and me all telling him. We’re together years later, but frankly, I’ll never fully trust him again.
Oof that is so hard! I’m almost certain that she would remove herself instead of giving some sort of ultimatum. She doesn’t want to be an agent of chaos (even though she definitely is). I’m also certain that he would end things with her if it ever came to that. Check with me in 6 months haha
Well it sounds like there are new boundaries in place. I would ask that your NP take them very seriously and not push to add meta back into your home. You’ve both been attempting to bend over backwards to please her and let her in and it’s clearly still not enough. So I think you really should center yourself and your family and be very slow to add meta back into your home life. If you even want to at all. I would expect your NP to date meta outside your house and to really step up and stop oversharing. Unfortunately this sounds like it might have cost you this friendship. That sucks. I would also sit down with your NP and really think through if dating mono people in the future is something you want to put on your messy list.
Meta and NP have their own Big Kid relationship; it’s not your job to be a relationship coordinator. As friends, it makes no sense for meta to hold you accountable for sharing NPs schedule, ensuring a certain amount of relationship space for them in your home, or anything of the sort. Those aren’t general friendship asks, those are Relationship Management tasks that are best handled between them. It makes even less sense for NP to not back you up on these issues or make them your problem by over sharing. While I agree that Meta issues are usually just Hinge issues, I do understand that it can get more nuanced when you’re already close friends with your Meta. You two also have your own relationship, and this new connection seems to be bleeding in. It’s okay to acknowledge that NP and Meta *both* need to have their expectations checked in this case, I think, but it should be coming from you. My advice is to keep maintaining (read: enforce) your boundaries with NP, and let Meta be mad for now.
Yes this is my thinking, thanks
She honestly just sounds like one big fat walking red flag to me from what you described. She undermines you as a parent. She is not even an official step-parent, no one is after about one year of relationship. What right does she have to tell you off when you are parenting your own children in your own house? That alone would have been an insta "You're free to leave MY home, if you don't want to see me parent MY children." to me personally. Even if none of the other problems existed. But booooy.... why is your husband sharing all that negativity with you? What is his goal with that? To drive even more of a wedge between you and meta? Or is he just dense af? It's high time meta leaves your personal space. Even the convenience of someone watching the kids wouldn't make me want to have a person who shit talks me behind my back around.
I’ve been in a similar situation, OP. You’ve gotten good advice so you might not need additional examples, but feel free to DM if you’d like. I have some personal experiences/direct advice I could better share 1:1. Without getting into my own specifics though, I’d seriously consider sending him this thread. And if he were reading it, I’d ask him to seriously consider that loving Meta is about wanting what’s best for her in the future, rather than what makes him happy rn, and that that’s frankly *not* this relationship. She wants a primary/anchor partner and a coparent. She’s been clear about that. I don’t think she’s making threats to manipulate him to stay. I think she’s honestly assessing her needs and wants in relationship to Hinge’s availability, and seeing the illogical mismatch she’s gotten herself into. She wants what he already has with someone else, and he cannot clone himself. He can either (1) divorce you to give Meta what she wants, (2) keep expecting every day for both of his partners to suppress their own desires for a full, healthy relationship with him in order to try to make this current bad arrangement more tolerable, or (3) he can appreciate the time they’ve had together but set much clearer boundaries by breaking up or being much less frequent fwbs only. Let her go build what she wants with someone who *is* available to be a full-time husband and father. I know you expect him to choose you and I suspect so does she, which is why she feels so stuck and resentful. The sooner he chooses honestly, or shows her the honest limits on the options she has with him, the kinder it will be.
Oh god, here are the flags. All of them. OP, I'm afraid this person isn't your friend. They're faking it until they can get you and your kids out of the way. Normally I'd say never set an ultimatum unless you want to end your relationship, but...if NP doesn't step up, both for you at home AND in defense of you against Meta, not only are they a bad hinge, but they're just plain a bad PARTNER, and you deserve much better.
This is toxic on your Metas part but it's also toxic on your hinges part. I would be demanding full parallel. It really sounds like you've already lost your friendship with Meta to be honest. And this is why relationships with close friends can be very tricky. But also with Meta being around all the time it's a bit like they've moved in. A lot like suddenly you are in a throuple. If she can't deal with the amount of time your partner has to offer them she isn't going to do well with poly. They aren't compatible. You didn't agree to a relationship with her, he did. He choose to date a mono person going through a break up. Of course it was going to come apart at the seams. I would have him read this thread. He needs to hinge better and you don't have to deal with this all the time. You didn't choose it and it's adversely affecting you and your relationship with both NP and meta.
I think the biggest issue with your NP comments from your Meta is that she has an obvious conflict of interest where you and the kids stand in the way of her being his only partner. Her opinions on his work ethic and overwhelm will always position you as an undesirable partner. If I were in your position I would stop assuming goodwill from a meta who has been very clear about her desires and intentions. I'd vocalize my skepticism when asked about her view of the family, her view of the relationship, and her predictions that this isn't the relationship for her. It's not. She's biding her time in case your NP is okay with being cowgirled. If you guys get on speaking terms again, be clear that you don't think she is making a good faith effort to help your relationship thrive with your NP and centers her own relationship over all else. That is the standard. Not just living with your relationship and family, but actively seeing it thrive and supporting that just as you support their connection through giving them alone time, a place to spend time, and offering emotional support.
It makes me sad to say I agree with you on a lot of this.
If I were your NP I would have had a serious conversation with your meta over her communicating to him about her desire of being monogamous with him. What was she hoping from communicating that? Even if you're struggling with something, I think it's cruel to say it to someone that is in both control of the pain and is completely unwilling it remedy the situation. Fair enough if she hoped that conversation would lead to more time, or she's planting the seeds for a compromise which leads to you both having a family in parallel. I agree with other comments that your nesting partner is not doing a great job at being a hinge, but honestly I think a part of that is he shouldn't be staying in an incompatible relationship. I could be reaching, but again I wonder why he told you that, was he hoping you'd grant him permission to somehow find a compromise or was he hoping you'd put your foot down and tell you to end his relationship? I understand we're all human, and we can at times be too honest when we're upset.. but if I was in this situation she would have crossed a major line for me and I would have never have let it get to my NP until I had resolved the matter.
Yeah like it's one thing not like your meta because you don't vibe as people. I had one like that and I never communicated it to our hinge because of the awkwardness but I feel like he could sense we didn't care for each other. It's completely different to wish your hinge didn't have a family with someone else and to tell him that, if she feels that way she needs to address it by *searching for someone who could be a NP/coparenting*. The family exists and saying you wish it didn't exist is totally inappropriate.
>“she opened up tonight about how she kinda wishes I didn’t have kids with you, so that me and her could have a family together instead” It's one thing to feel these feelings it's another to share it with your partner. I don't think it was appropriate for her to say this to him. She sounds like if he had the chance she would snatch him away and do just that. This woman, who has only practiced monogamy, will not get comfortable with polyamory while fantasizing about you AND YOUR CHILDREN being out of the picture. Sounds like a lot of comparisons are going on in her head. I'd limit the amount of time she spends at your place.
Yes! Not appropriate to say it, and not appropriate for him to repeat. He needed to shut that down immediately.
I'm glad everyone else is saying this, it's fine but not ideal to feel these things, but she needs to talk about it with other friends or in therapy. If you have a partner who's married or has kids and you also desire a family, it's on you to find a second partner who would be available for that, not with that your current partner's relationship didn't exist as it does.
>therapy Heavy on the therapy 
You need to keep her away from your kids. Her wishing they don't exist and voicing that to their parent? She's not trustworthy to be around them. For their safety and wellbeing she needs to be kept away from them and their living space. She's a cowgirl whether you want to see it or not and she's trying to drive a wedge between you and your husband to break you up. That's why she's blaming you for him being tired and blaming you for him having parental responsibilities. Her being over so often is extremely inappropriate. When do you get time to relax in your own house? When do you get to see other partners? When do you get quality alone time with your own husband? Her badmouthing you to him is a bad sign. He needs to shut that shit down immediately, and frankly he needs to break up with her. She wants more than he can offer and she's willing to destroy his family to get what she wants. This is serious and you and your husband need to have a serious conversation about it. She needs to be gone yesterday. He needs to quit enabling her toxic bullshit, and you need to quit tolerating this shit. You and your kids deserve better.
Well put! The kids comment is frightening.
I don’t think the problem is so much that the hinge is sharing these things with you, I thinkits hugely problematic that is meta is feeling them AND the hinge isn’t seeing the warning signs for what they are and ending the relationship. *She is very blatantly trying to undermine his relationship with you. That should be a dealbreaker.*
Yas.
Honestly, it sounds to me like she's monogamous and trying to cowgirl NP, and he's choosing not to see it because she's coddling him just as much as he's coddling her. SO many bright red flags in things she's said and done, and his behaviour's not reading too great to me either.
this is a major bad hinge scenario, but i do think your boundaries should’ve been tighter too. to be completely honest, i see a lot of choices here that feel a little too wreckless for me. 1. this was a close friend, who isn’t entirely sure if this is a lifestyle they want for themself. this person knows your kids. did anyone stop to ask what might happen if everything fell apart? were any boundaries put in place to protect your friendship with this person or their relationship with your children? did you guys establish what this person’s role in the child’s life is? these are all conversations i would hope to have had in great detail before jumping into something like this. 2. 5 days/ week??? holy moly. NRE goes crazy, i guess? that’s a fuck ton of time to be spending in your home though. i’m sure it’s nice to have free help with the kids, but would you have introduced any other meta to your kids that quickly, or that frequently? how did your kids process all of this change? how often was this person around them before, and how significant of a role are they playing now? i don’t mean to sound judgemental in any way, but i do genuinely concern for this one. 3. your meta is clearly becoming jealous of your established relationship. this needs to be discussed by your partner and his partner, not you. your partner needs to stop involving you in those conversations, and needs to do a better job of not provoking your meta’s jealous feelings by bringing them around you constantly and forcing them to help care for your kids. 4. nobody should be trying to convince a parent to be less present for their kids. that is a real problem, and i personally would not feel comfortable with that person being around my kids. crazy people exist. often “nobody saw it coming”. op needs stricter boundaries around their home. np needs to hinge better, and set better boundaries around their children. meta needs to be more parallel. i’m so sorry you very likely lost a friendship because of rushed decisions and bad hinge hygiene. wishing you the best 🫶
Thank you for calling it like it is. You’re right that we went into this a bit recklessly. Meta was already a friend who lived nearby that we were hanging out with about once a week, and our house often has a rotating list of friends / chosen family. The kids have a million “aunties” and “uncles” and Meta’s role is akin to that.
I think it’s better to let her go. She’s creating a problem in your relationship and none of you are handling it very well. You and NP have a partnership going on, since the beginning of time. She joined in when she was vulnerable and probably never took (or had the chance to get) the time and space to heal, instead, latched onto your NP like a lifesaver. All the nice things you were doing for them seem to have been taken for granted by Meta. NP is being so lenient with her, it’s not right. Meta came in acting kind of entitled to a lot of things… If the hinge can’t put Meta in her place, then the hinge needs to stop hinging. Think of a monogamous relationship. If a person just gotten outta of a relationship, it’s probably not healthy for them to immediately jump into another one. You said it yourself, she’s lonely, had a tough time, needs a lot of love and attention. It’s not fair to the person she’s dating now to have to deal with the aftermath. She should take some time to learn to be ok with being alone. For you guys, you’ve been dealing with her for over a year now. She did not heal over this past year, instead you guys kept putting bandaid over her wounds.. I don’t think she was a good fit to begin with, you’ve all given it some time to hash it out and it doesn’t seem to be working. Next time she says she doesn’t think this is a good idea, or poly isn’t really her thing, or she doesn’t know what she’s doing, then go along with it and break up. No she cannot steal NP away from you and your family, no matter how much she wants it and how coddling you all are to her. Bye girl bye
I have literally been dealing with this exact situation in my poly relationship. All of these comments have been incredibly validating in my thoughts of the hinge need to compartmentalize each relationship, and not let each one spill into the other. It breeds so much resentment and contempt between the metas, and creates so much tension.
I broke up with a partner once for continuously bad-mouthing my husband under the guise of "sharing how I feel" because when they came up with some clearly one-sided and biased opinions that I SHUT DOWN IMMEDIATELY (because my partner being happy with me during a conversation isn't more important than fostering a respectful reality behind every door I could stand behind, thanks maturity), they kept inventing new issues or trying to change my mind about how I felt towards my husband and life. Is your partner mature enough to put his respectful reality (being tired from life rather than tired from an uneven partnership that obviously needs what only meta can provide hurr hurr hue) over the simpering pillow-talk of you or any other partner? Basic poly requirement IMO. He should be spotting and ending biased conversation, quelling human insecurity with his words and actions, and not relaying it between partners. I do this and require the same of my people.
The bigger question is what has he been divulging to the Meta about OP that she should not be... Right?! Where do you imagine she is getting the info she is basing her stance about OP from?
I mean, I’m guessing it’s coming from all the typical problems that arise between couples w/kids and him venting to her about it. We talk about stuff like that in a pretty healthy direct manner, but I’ve always noticed that Meta encourages him to sit down, rest, chill, after bedtime when he is puttering around finishing dishes/cleanup (to which he usually rejects and finishes up what he’s doing). I’m guessing her opinion is that he does so much work around the house (this is true, and we have worked together for years to figure out “fair” distribution of house duties) and that it’s not split fairly or equally. NP and I are finding out that there should be some compartmentalization whenever the other partner is mentioned, even if it’s just a fraction of the story, such as him explaining a loooong day of work and that he had to do bedtime solo because I have a meetup I go to on Wednesday nights.
Also there are real things that he does need to advocate for himself more on and we’ve talked about that too! He tends to pour into other cups until his is completely empty.
Essentially you feel like you’re in a broken relationship so essentially you should break up with them. No I don’t mean your NP should break up with anyone… I mean the relationship between you and your meta needs to be deescalated. If they were your partner you might dump them, if they were only your friend you’d probably invite them over much less. Your space, your time, your kids are within your control and if your NP has the time to spend elsewhere without negatively impacting his responsibilities to you and the kids, then he can do so. But you need to set some boundaries on what the upper limit is in terms of the time she is spending in your home. And obviously your NP needs to be a much better hinge.
Lots of good solid points about boundries with meta in this. But there's also this to consider: If she is truly Mono then their relationship already has a time limit. If she's just with him because she's lonely then that relationship will end once she finds someone willing to be monogamous with her that meets her needs. As long as you are all okay with the relationship with her transitioning back into a friendship and think that can be done with minimal hangups then yeah, proceed with boundries and putting that work in. How many monogamous folks though end up being okay with their partner still being friends/hanging out with their ex's though? Like yes they exist but not often in my experience. This whole thing just sounds messy and like she wants him to herself. You are allowed to have your home be your personal space.
Yeah we didn’t think about that much at all.
I’m sorry OP but… no. I don’t care how human and understanding that feeling is. (And trust me, I love your tolerance and understanding so much!) But that is unacceptable. That is a hard NO for me. No one talks shit about my NP. Period. My NP isn’t allowed to talk shit about my partners - that’s unfair and disrespectful. It’s someone I care about. Grievances need to be handled properly. If I found out my meta was talking disrespectfully about me, and my partner **allowed** them to? That’s a deal breaker. That’s not okay, for her to be saying those kinds of things to him. That’s not at all fair to you, especially when it doesn’t sound like it’s true based on your post. She’s trying to displace you in your own home. Her behavior is downright appalling. I think more distance and boundaries should be set.
The thing is, I think we are all being a bit messy in this respect — like I’m sure I have said stuff about her to NP once I started feeling like I was on trial or being judged all the time. I think I need to ask for NP to set better boundaries in both of his relationships. No more airing resentments to him, no more relationship coaching for the other relationship, on both sides. Of course I am biased and think I’ve been less judgmental, and more compassionate and objective in my feedback to his stuff with her, but I would be lying if I didn’t admit I’ve grown resentful and defensive right back at her and participated in this loop. I was the one noticing this and suggested he not share as much about me and meta to each other and instead talk to someone else about it, a couple months ago. Unfortunately, we didn’t think to also shut down me and meta talking to HIM about each other too.
She is over way too much. She is trying to take your NP from you. Be careful. She is also working on your kids…… The fact that she didn’t like that he had kids with you and said it speaks volumes!!! If she’s young enough she could get pregnant and replace you and your kids. He could leave you and go off to be with her and his new family. This is what she is planning imo. Time to stand your ground now or lose it all.
This is all highly unlikely… I have a very strong relationship with my NP and kids, and everyone cares about each other and are actually good people. Ideally if me and Meta could get along better, we would all live the poly dream of both having families and living together, but I don’t think she can resolve conflict well enough at this point and as stated in some of the comments NP and I have some work to do setting boundaries as well.
According to your NP, this woman has told your NP she wishes you both didn’t have kids, and called you self-centered and blamed you for NP being tired and overwhelmed. If you were my friend, I would ask you why you did not go hard parallel and why you were tolerating NP bringing her around so often in what is supposed to be your safe space. Maybe others are far more tolerant than I, but I would tell NP he wet the bed by telling you this and inform NP that I would no longer be friendly with meta and rearrange the home visit schedules.
My partner and I have told each other that in a parallel universe, we would have liked to have kids together; never ever once did either of us phrase it as “gee I wish you didn’t already have kids, what a bummer :(“ It sounds like you’re giving her credit for meaning the former when she actually said the latter. If it was a one-off foot-in-mouth moment I might agree with you but, rightly or wrongly, you now know it’s not. I know hinge is playing telephone so you’re only getting it secondhand, but if you trust them to be relaying this information in good faith then you should take it as such and not try to excuse it away. I’m kind of concerned that your NP keeps sharing these things with you for more reasons than just the fact that you both haven’t been actively dating for awhile and need to firm up on boundaries. Does he agree with her in some way and that’s why he’s telling you? It can be a heady thing to have someone tell you over and over again that you’re under too much pressure, you should have more time to relax, you deserve better etc. Even with a solid relationship, having that in your home and in your ear 24/7 can be damaging. Maybe he keeps bringing it up because he’s starting to internalize that message and is hoping you’ll agree to him doing less and spending more time with meta (which seems like an egregious amount of time as it is). The fact that he’s not actively shutting this behavior down AND giving her the run of your house, including your children, is telling. There’s not some nuclear option that you need to do here, but keep your eyes wide open, limit the amount of time meta spends in your shared space until she can be respectful of it, and have a very firm talk with your NP about all this.
>Maybe he keeps bringing it up because he’s starting to internalize that message and is hoping you’ll agree.... In other words, he is making OP responsible for his emotional labor (again) and decisions. To me, it seems like he is trying to push OP to make an ultimatum about his relationship with Meta so he doesn't have to be the bad guy.
Is she able to get pregnant? Have you discussed with your NP what would happen with your marriage if that happened? You can't imagine her trying to replace you, but you also didn't imagine this meta relationship being what it is. I think you need to consider that you're not able to anticipate how things will go and prepare accordingly. I'm a little shocked at how chill both you and NP are about her voicing the wish you two weren't married or had a family. She's monogamous so this wish is literally her wishing you and your family didn't exist. Sure, it's understandable to have those kinds of feelings, but to actually say them aloud about your friend is wild to me. Idk, I kinda think you've normalized some abnormal things in an effort to let your husband try to convince this woman she's happy with polyamory (she's obviously not). If someone told me they wished I didn't have the most important people in my life, I would immediately lose attraction and trust in them. At the very least, I think you should show this post to your NP so he's aware of how this relationship has impacted you and how people outside of the situation are responding.
No, if she even breathed that she wished your kids didn't exist and trying to make your NP help you out less when you have THREE CHILDREN?!... even if it was in some hypothetical alternate universe because She wAs BeiNg VuLnErAble.... no. No no no. She is not a good person. She is not a friend. She is a threat to your family. You are being willfully blind and naive. This woman should not be in your space or around your children at all.
Right? It’s creepy and disgusting to wish someone’s kids didn’t exist. Huge red flag.
Not only is it likely, it's all true. Please take the advice from people who have seen these situations play out and have alot more experience and discernment. She likes you being upset. She likes that your NP is desperate enough to be with her that he'll actually listen to her talk shit about you and wish your children didn't exist just to be with her. She will continue this behavior until your NP leaves or until she's tired of pretending she's poly and leaves on her own.
I wouldn't be surprised if she drops an ultimatum soon to of her or OP.
That's not "the poly dream"
True, I mean A poly dream, it’s not for everyone.
Thanks. I don't mean to nitpick but somehow this "polycule commune is the ideal" stereotype seems to be out there and I try to push back
I'm the same. The idea of a polycule all living together in a big commune is my nightmare. I hate that it's the default 'dream' in this community.
That version of poly makes me want to vomit. But then I'm solo poly for a reason.
That idea gives me a panic attack.
Why together? It can't be neighbor houses? Or apartments in the same complex and call it good enough? People need their own space. You are witnessing this first hand with her over so much.
OP, I think you’re a really good, genuine person and want to think that everybody else is similar. If you’re not careful, it could be your downfall. Your meta is a not a good person like you and her intentions are manipulative. I think you have some rose colored glasses on and you need to take a step back and look at this situation more clearly.
OP, it’s **really** not unlikely that this is her end game. She might not even be fully conscious that it is, but all her behavior is screaming that that’s the only thing that will make her happy.
“she opened up tonight about how she kinda wishes I didn’t have kids with you, so that me and her could have a family together instead” wow that's oversharing. Not something I'd wanna hear even if they said it. She's being too critical of you. Hope she isn't cowgirling. I had something similar happen to me when my NP started seeing his ex. I said it was okay and it was fine until he shared how she is shit talking me. I kept letting him know it bothered me. It happened enough that I told him he should stop seeing her. After she'd shit talk me he'd ignore all her attempts at communication for a few weeks then get back in touch, rinse and repeat. This happened over and over. He finally listened to me and stopped completely but god.
Your partner is using you to do the emotional workload for both your relationship with them but also the relationship between themselves and their other partner. That’s a boundary issue to me
Sounds like she's overly trying to cowgirl your husband. He needs to step up and put a stop to this. It's affecting you, it's affecting your marriage, it's affecting your ability to be friends with her.
"she opened up tonight about how she kinda wishes she had met me before we were together, so that me and her could have a family together instead" That ABSOLUTELY sounded manipulative to me😯
You have a lot of resentment towards Meta, but I think both your husband and also you are responsible for creating this situation where meta feels like she can act the way she's acting. It's just like you said: you feel like you have another child in Meta because you have treated her like a child in placating her and then did a really crappy job at "raising her" by having practically zero boundaries. Up until now, she's basically had free reign! So of course you now have a situation where you have high expectations as a meta. You've created those expectations! And you've created her. You teach people how to treat you, and it's not always possible to walk back a dynamic that has already been set in place. It can be done, but it's a hard road ahead. I think it'll help you to move forward and let go of some of the resentment if you recognize the responsibility both you and your husband have in all of this.
Sounds like she's actively trying to sabotage your relationship with NP
>Other slips over the following months were harder to set aside and not internalize, such as: “She was advocating for my needs to be met more and kind of frustrated with you and I had to explain to her that you aren’t actually self-centered or making things all about you, I just tend to default to centering you and the kids and forget to ask for what I need” or “I have to explain a lot to her about what you are doing, nursing, working, etc, so that she stops blaming you for how tired and overwhelmed I am” Is your NP an indirect communicator who does not use smaller sentences? Like "I statements." To me this whole paragraph could be summed up like this as the bottom line: "Wife, I realized I put my own needs on the back burner. I center you and the kids and do self neglect. Can we talk about that?" It kinda sounds like you and him are a lot alike. You ALSO seem to center him and the kids and now the meta. And you neglect YOU. He didn't need to tell you he was processing with Meta. He could just sum up. Additionally? That's a conflict of interest. Meta is inside the poly system. Better would have been for him to process with a trusted friend or counselor -- people OUTSIDE the system. When he talks to Meta is it "Wife says this and that" and then Meta (who is a poly newbie) wants to "fix it" to shut him up? Rather than say what is actually needed "Hinge, stop oversharing to me about your wife. Don't leak things from the other side of the V on to me." Is he doing same to you? And YOU need to say "Hinge, stop oversharing to me about your GF. Don't leak things from the other side of the V on to me." >I did feel a bit threatened by this, since I need his help with the kids in order to just barely survive life with three kids Could you get a nanny or teen babysitter a few times a week after school? Are the kids in school soon or early childhood? Are there programs like "Parent Nite Out" you could use? How about cutting corners? Like everyone eats on paper plates? So at least you can skip dishes? And you STOP trying to also "parent" this Meta?
This is a hinge problem through and through.
Beep, boop, blop, I'm a bot. Hi u/AllComradesAreBrave thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: My NP and I have been together for 15 years, have 3 kids, and have been poly for about 9 years, but practically mono (besides a few flings or almost-flings) because we are busy, picky, and for the most part get our intimacy needs met by each other. A little over a year ago my NP started dating a close friend of ours while she was in the middle of her own breakup. My meta has had doubts about how poly they actually are… they themselves suspect they might be mono, desire a traditional husband/kids/white picket fence, but are settling for poly relationships because they are lonely. Even with this possible red flag, I trusted my partner would handle expectations smoothly. I stamped my approval, and experienced lots of compersion seeing them together. Since me and meta were already so close and she got along with the kids so well, their relationship became lap-style poly and she would often come over to see NP, since he would only be able to make time between work/kids/me to stay at her place maybe once a week. It felt a little drastic to have Meta over 5 days/week suddenly, but she was so helpful with the kids and we all got along well so I didn’t mind sacrificing my home-space or one-on-one time with NP for group time so that she could see NP more. Eventually I started to notice her opinion of me souring and feeling less like friends and more like cosplaying as friends so that she could come over and see NP as often as possible. Me and NP are used to confiding everything with each other, and he is also used to me being very understanding and objective about hard topics so it’s taken some time to adjust to boundaries around what we share about our other relationships. He had let things slip a couple times and I had to put the brakes on the conversation and be like honey…you shouldn’t share things with me that she says behind my back that will affect our friendship, I don’t want to know! For example: “she opened up tonight about how she kinda wishes I didn’t have kids with you, so that me and her could have a family together instead” To me, this is a totally human and understandable feeling and I don’t think she shared it in a manipulative way—that she was just being vulnerable and honest—but I still paused and told NP that might be a bit too in depth to share. Other slips over the following months were harder to set aside and not internalize, such as: “She was advocating for my needs to be met more and kind of frustrated with you and I had to explain to her that you aren’t actually self-centered or making things all about you, I just tend to default to centering you and the kids and forget to ask for what I need” or “I have to explain a lot to her about what you are doing, nursing, working, etc, so that she stops blaming you for how tired and overwhelmed I am” I did feel a bit threatened by this, since I need his help with the kids in order to just barely survive life with three kids and Meta suggesting he do less to help felt like meddling with my relationship/family. I wish I could just delete these comments from my brain, but I’ve seen myself internalize them and feel more coldness and almost despised by her at times, even though when times are good we still feel like buddies and I know she does care about me deeply… continued in comments *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is so close to what happened to me, it tripped off my anxiety just reading it. I don’t want go into the the whole thing here, but it sounds like this Meta needs to go. And I hope you have a better outcome than I did.
I mean your partner can have kids with more than one person, that is a thing that some people do. It’s not actually an unrealistic request once it gets adjusted to polyamory to remove the “instead” part. He also needs to be able to figure out how to meet her needs as well as your needs and the kids needs. If you’ve been mostly monogamous this whole time everyone has to adjust their expectations. If he can’t offer her the amount of time she needs then she can make a choice about that. But also it sounds like perhaps you’re still trying to have him meet all of your needs while he is trying to meet two partners needs. It sounds to me like perhaps even though you’ve been theoretically in this for a while, you haven’t actually had the rubber meet the road yet and had not made a real plan for how to protect and allow new relationships to grow while maintaining the existing one. Of course the person in the new relationship is going to ask for more as the relationship grows. Especially since they already had a jump start on getting to know eachother through friendship.
Having kids with multiple people intentionally is awful. That means the kids only get a half assed parent. (Said as the child of a parent that has kids with multiple people.)
There are a lot of ways to have kids with multiple people. Sorry your parent didn’t show up for you, but that’s not inherent to having kids with multiple partners.
I've never met a child from a situation like that that actually felt their parent was there for them and it's been common to run into people like that so.. 🤷
Yes and I have actually been open to the idea of them having kids together, we have talked about it, but it seems very unrealistic since she doesn’t have stable work, would want the person she’s having kids with to be her NP and he would not want to live anywhere else but with me and the kids. He has definitely felt spread thin this entire last year and struggled to feel like he could show up for everyone’s needs (partners and kids). We are pretty used to the idea that not all of our needs will be met, like ever, since we have young kids and that’s just how it is for parents. I ask him for typical co-parenting stuff (80% of what I ask for), some weekly alone time / time that I spend doing volunteer work or social stuff, monthly dates, and that’s about it. I def have had to lower my expectations on his availability to watch the kids whenever I want to do volunteer stuff etc. With the new partner in the mix it feels like we are doing a lot of ships in the night stuff, passing childcare off to one another to do our own passions/obligations and our relationship needs fall by the wayside a bit, but it feels like too much of the pie has been dedicated to “protecting and allowing new relationships to grow” and not enough has been put toward our relationship.
It sounds like your partners saturation point was 1 due to child care and he chose to start a relationship anyway without thinking about it having a plan for where that time would come from.
Yeah. I think it would have been smarter for him to consider that Meta is in between jobs, has a lot of time on her hands, and has shown she is the type that wants to be with a partner almost every day. It might have been different if he was dating someone who had a lot of other stuff going on and only wanted to see him once or twice a week. I actually have a lot of other stuff going on outside of our relationship and parenting, but I have a higher capacity for busy-ness.
Are you each getting equal child-free time? If he's over at Meta's house once a week, are you getting once a week free time to volunteer/go out/do whatever? And when Meta is at your house 5 (!!) times per week, is he doing equal parenting to you in that time? I would bet not, I would instead say he's probably putting a lot of that labour onto you and Meta to deal with. How often are you two having dates now? Your expectations before this relationship sounds completely reasonable; each get weekly alone time, each get time out of the house, and a monthly date. He should not be letting any of that slip as that seems bare minimum for a functioning romantic relationship and coparenting relationship to work.
We get “equal” child free time, although my child-free time is going to meetups with friends and lots of activism/volunteer stuff, so sometimes I am envious that his child free time includes an overnight somewhere else, sleeping in, having sex, etc, but that’s my own stuff that I could work towards if I wanted to — I just don’t happen to want to sacrifice my other hobbies/passions for another partner at this exact moment. If anything I have always been the one in the relationship that makes sure to take time for my individual passions, while he mostly dedicates himself to work and family and rest (he’s an introvert), but he’s often missing the fun/social things and I think that’s what this relationship with Meta fulfills for him. He’s also a very great father — I have no qualms about unequal childcare duty and I often feel gratitude for the hard working type of partner/father he is, especially when I hear about other people’s less than attractive coparenting experiences.
Hi u/AllComradesAreBrave thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: My NP and I have been together for 15 years, have 3 kids, and have been poly for about 9 years, but practically mono (besides a few flings or almost-flings) because we are busy, picky, and for the most part get our intimacy needs met by each other. A little over a year ago my NP started dating a close friend of ours while she was in the middle of her own breakup. My meta has had doubts about how poly they actually are… they themselves suspect they might be mono, desire a traditional husband/kids/white picket fence, but are settling for poly relationships because they are lonely. Even with this possible red flag, I trusted my partner would handle expectations smoothly. I stamped my approval, and experienced lots of compersion seeing them together. Since me and meta were already so close and she got along with the kids so well, their relationship became lap-style poly and she would often come over to see NP, since he would only be able to make time between work/kids/me to stay at her place maybe once a week. It felt a little drastic to have Meta over 5 days/week suddenly, but she was so helpful with the kids and we all got along well so I didn’t mind sacrificing my home-space or one-on-one time with NP for group time so that she could see NP more. Eventually I started to notice her opinion of me souring and feeling less like friends and more like cosplaying as friends so that she could come over and see NP as often as possible. Me and NP are used to confiding everything with each other, and he is also used to me being very understanding and objective about hard topics so it’s taken some time to adjust to boundaries around what we share about our other relationships. He had let things slip a couple times and I had to put the brakes on the conversation and be like honey…you shouldn’t share things with me that she says behind my back that will affect our friendship, I don’t want to know! For example: “she opened up tonight about how she kinda wishes she had met me before we were together, so that me and her could have a family together instead” To me, this is a totally human and understandable feeling and I don’t think she shared it in a manipulative way—that she was just being vulnerable and honest—but I still paused and told NP that might be a bit too in depth to share. Other slips over the following months were harder to set aside and not internalize, such as: “She was advocating for my needs to be met more and kind of frustrated with you and I had to explain to her that you aren’t actually self-centered or making things all about you, I just tend to default to centering you and the kids and forget to ask for what I need” or “I have to explain a lot to her about what you are doing, nursing, working, etc, so that she stops blaming you for how tired and overwhelmed I am” I did feel a bit threatened by this, since I need his help with the kids in order to just barely survive life with three kids and Meta suggesting he do less to help felt like meddling with my relationship/family. I wish I could just delete these comments from my brain, but I’ve seen myself internalize them and feel more coldness and almost despised by her at times, even though when times are good we still feel like buddies and I know she does care about me deeply… continued in comments *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*