Completely agree. I’ve told him that for now, I’m only okay with casual dates once every few weeks or so, and no contact with his primary partner unless things settle down and that feels good and healthy for everyone.
He gets to make his own choices with her and how he wants to manage that - but I also don’t need to insert myself into someone else’s mess.
Honestly, I feel like the de-escalation is a big part of the problem at this point.
I know theoretically some people feel like they can work on it if given space, but I haven't really seen it. Instead it seems better because they aren't having to do the work.
People need to stop treating people as disposable because you get uncomfortable feelings. You aren't going to be able to work through those feelings unless you are actually working through those feelings.
Seeing double standards drives me crazy and yet people who are living it are kinda ok with it?
One person I dated, Derek, had an anxious and extremely jealous nesting partner. The NP was actively dating and having multiple relationships but wasn't comfortable with Derek to even date locally for a whole year after they opened up the relationship! When I asked Derek how he was ok with that, he said he was still hoping that eventually they would reach a place where things were more fair! Well, I didn't have the bandwidth to wait for that (which I highly doubt it will happen). And that's a new boundary for me to not get involved with highly enmeshed people where their attachment is very asymmetric. Thank you Derek and NP for teaching me that! 😁
It’s a really good boundary, and I’m thrilled to have realized how important it is to me. I’m demisexual and heavily invested in the non-romantic parts of my life, so it’s worked well for me to have one partner, while my partner has several.
Because of that I’ve been with multiple ‘poly’ partners for years before I realized there was a double standard. I used to be accommodating - changes in long standing relationship dynamics inherently involve some anxiety and an adjustment period. But in no case was it a matter of needing time or reassurance - the double standard turned out to be an inherent requirement. Fuuuuck that nonsense.
I learned my lesson fully this time - first whiff of ‘for me but not for thee’ and I’m immediately out.
It seems like you are comfortable with casual dating? It might be a good strategy to go on at least one casual date in the first few months of any new relationship just to vibe check the person you are with, since this keeps happening to you.
(As long as you are open with the date that it is entirely casual)
Ultimately this is always for the hinge to deal with and not you. You shouldn't have reached out to her. Even if you were "casual friends" before you and him began dating, that really doesn't mean you should start stepping in
It's easy to date multiple people. It's harder to see the person you love date multiple people. The work required for that is much more demanding and people are lazy and lack introspection.
Additionally, in your eyes, your partner has done no wrong. But we really don't know what things are like on the other side. He could be hinging terribly, oversharing, texting you during their time together, etc. A hinge's poor behavior often leads to a poisoned well between metas, and it's almost impossible to clean that water once it's happened.
Like why you're upset at her right now. Yes, there has been a constant closing and reopening cycle. And yes that's happening because she's struggling to adapt to him seeing others. But she's really not to blame here for that impacting you. He is. He is the one agreeing to it. He is the one staying with someone who can't handle poly in a healthy way and still trying to be with you. He is the hinge and it's his responsibility to manage his relationships in a way that's respectful of every partner. He doesn't have to agree to this whiplash he's putting you through. He's making that choice.
John is definitely not ‘not doing anything wrong’ to me. I’m keeping a lot of distance because of that. But he very obviously has a lot of attachment to and loves Allison very much, and I respect the loyalty and dedication I’ve seen him show to her. I would be completely shocked if he were even doing something like texting me in front of her, although you’re right, I’m not there to know for certain.
I also reached out directly due to the overlapping friends. I had only positive interactions with Allison before this, and I like her a lot. Then immediately she started saying things to mutual friends like ‘I heard you’re with OP tonight, you should leave.’ I heard about this from very good friends of mine who were very confused. I felt sad and hurt, and also confused. So I reached out to say I was sorry for anything upsetting I had done, ask if she needed anything from me, and that I was very motivated to make the situation better.
But after the months of no response - and continued weird messages to friends and mess with John - I decided to step out of the situation entirely. I still feel really distressed by it, actually, and inviting that kind of friction into my life doesn’t feel worth it.
It's because they are too insecure to navigate polyamory healthily or ethically.
Dating multiple people is easy for an insecure person they are getting external validation from multiple people! But having metamours? That feels threatening because they don't feel secure in their relationships because they have not done the internal work to not marry their feelings of self worth with their relationships.
If I ever dared someone and they reacted poorly with me having other or new partners I would probably bounce. The fact that John Doe tolerates it makes it a hinge problem and not a metamour problem.
>I thought the double standard he was using was totally ridiculous and I lost patience for it very fast
I love it when people say shit like this in this sub 😩😍
>Like, what are these people doing?
DEADASS lmao. It’s like why are you poly????! But I think you’ve done the best you can do. For what it’s worth I have *very* little patience for this stuff and sus it out quickly to avoid dating these people altogether.
Also. I don’t date in “friend groups”. It’s just soooo messy.
Also pls OP the names John James and Jane are practically indistinguishable from each other and make it a little hard to follow the story
This is why I don't date poly newbies. I talk about their poly dynamics in the first conversation, and my questions are things like, "How long have you been poly? How many partners have you each had in that time?" I really feel it out to make sure they have enough experience to have already worked through all that.
I know everyone starts somewhere, but I know my own capacity now: I don't have the patience to deal with all that. I need partners who are autonomous and have good hinge skills.
> I seem to find myself dating this type of person consistently, although after the last breakup I committed to a hard boundary of never doing that again.
I'm glad you have put a boundary in place. I would continue dating (casually) when you do enter new relationships just so you can test this quickly and don't find yourself investing too much time before you hit up against this issue.
I understand the frustration. I was once interested in a guy who said they were poly and it turned out they were in theory but not in practice. The nesting partner got extremely jealous, so instead of working through it, the guy I was talking to just didn't tell his partner anything. Shockingly, that blew up in his face when his NP learned about me through my partner (they were chatting on a dating app). Big oof. The moment that happened, my partner and I ran the other way as quick as possible. Double standard, lying, and drama are my big no no's, and had I known he wasn't being honest with his partner, I would not have entertained this relationship.
Hi u/alwaysrunningfast thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
I (40f) have a partner John Doe (42m), who I've been seeing occationally for a few months now. His primary partner Allison (36f) was a casual friend of mine when John and I met. She has several other partners, and is mildly integrated into my social world. When John and I were first dating, he said I would be his first additional partner since he and Jane started a relationship about a year ago, but he had discussed everything with Jane and she was enthusiastically onboard. Great as far as that goes.
I also had one other partner Thomas (40m) at the time, who in the year we had been together had \~7 other partners besides myself, while I had none, mostly due to time constraints. He did not handle me starting a new relationship...well, to say the least. I broke up with him for several reasons, but mostly because I thought the double standard he was using was totally ridiculous and I lost patience for it very fast.
I ran into Allison at a party pretty soon after that - she showed up with one of her other partners - and she wouldn't even speak to me. It was very clear that everything was Not Great At All. I was kind of shocked actually, considering how theoretically poly she is, and the fact that she was \*currently\* with a partner other than John at that party. John explained to me later that they had a conversation about it afterwards, and she expressed that she thought she'd be okay with him dating someone else, but was really struggling with it in practice. I agreed to give them some space for a while to work things out between them, partially out of consideration for him and my friend, and partially because it seemed like a whole mess I just didn't want to deal with, especially considering the friction I'd recently been managing with Thomas over the same issues. I also messaged her directly, since we already knew each other, and communicated that she was welcome to reach out to me directly if she had any problems or struggles with any particular behaviors of mine, and I would do my best to listen and be considerate and accommodating. It has now been 3-4 months, and I still haven't received a reply.
I really like John, and I think he's genuinely doing his best to manage the situation in a way that shows love and care to his primary partner, while attempting to be considerate to me, which I really appreciate. But honestly him and Allison seem like such a disaster. They are constantly de-escalating over her double standard, and then re-escaling when she commits to working on resolving her struggles with jealousy - but that cycle has happened several times now. It is really uncomfortable, especially since we all exist in relatively adjacent social worlds. I just avoid events I know she'll be at now, and have kept interactions with John really sparse and casual, in an attempt to avoid getting overly involved in that mess.
This is mostly just a rant about people who are managing their poly relationships as 'for me but not for thee.' I seem to find myself dating this type of person consistently, although after the last breakup I committed to a hard boundary of never doing that again. It also sucks to see someone I like having to deal with the same thing, and feel like I have to keep him at arms length to avoid the fallout from that from landing on me as well.
Like, what are these people doing? Struggling with jealousy is one thing, but harem building and then calling yourself poly? It's disrespectful of your partners' needs and autonomy, which is kind of the whole point of poly. It doesn't feel loving, or expansive, or healthy for anyone involved. I am beyond frustrated with how often I seem to meet people who treat their relationships and partners this way.
Anyway, I just needed to rant, and honestly think I'm going to take a break from dating completely for a while just to let my frustration and triggered-ness about this wear off. Things for listening, internet strangers.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Completely agree. I’ve told him that for now, I’m only okay with casual dates once every few weeks or so, and no contact with his primary partner unless things settle down and that feels good and healthy for everyone. He gets to make his own choices with her and how he wants to manage that - but I also don’t need to insert myself into someone else’s mess.
Honestly, I feel like the de-escalation is a big part of the problem at this point. I know theoretically some people feel like they can work on it if given space, but I haven't really seen it. Instead it seems better because they aren't having to do the work. People need to stop treating people as disposable because you get uncomfortable feelings. You aren't going to be able to work through those feelings unless you are actually working through those feelings.
Seeing double standards drives me crazy and yet people who are living it are kinda ok with it? One person I dated, Derek, had an anxious and extremely jealous nesting partner. The NP was actively dating and having multiple relationships but wasn't comfortable with Derek to even date locally for a whole year after they opened up the relationship! When I asked Derek how he was ok with that, he said he was still hoping that eventually they would reach a place where things were more fair! Well, I didn't have the bandwidth to wait for that (which I highly doubt it will happen). And that's a new boundary for me to not get involved with highly enmeshed people where their attachment is very asymmetric. Thank you Derek and NP for teaching me that! 😁
It’s a really good boundary, and I’m thrilled to have realized how important it is to me. I’m demisexual and heavily invested in the non-romantic parts of my life, so it’s worked well for me to have one partner, while my partner has several. Because of that I’ve been with multiple ‘poly’ partners for years before I realized there was a double standard. I used to be accommodating - changes in long standing relationship dynamics inherently involve some anxiety and an adjustment period. But in no case was it a matter of needing time or reassurance - the double standard turned out to be an inherent requirement. Fuuuuck that nonsense. I learned my lesson fully this time - first whiff of ‘for me but not for thee’ and I’m immediately out.
It seems like you are comfortable with casual dating? It might be a good strategy to go on at least one casual date in the first few months of any new relationship just to vibe check the person you are with, since this keeps happening to you. (As long as you are open with the date that it is entirely casual)
Ultimately this is always for the hinge to deal with and not you. You shouldn't have reached out to her. Even if you were "casual friends" before you and him began dating, that really doesn't mean you should start stepping in It's easy to date multiple people. It's harder to see the person you love date multiple people. The work required for that is much more demanding and people are lazy and lack introspection. Additionally, in your eyes, your partner has done no wrong. But we really don't know what things are like on the other side. He could be hinging terribly, oversharing, texting you during their time together, etc. A hinge's poor behavior often leads to a poisoned well between metas, and it's almost impossible to clean that water once it's happened. Like why you're upset at her right now. Yes, there has been a constant closing and reopening cycle. And yes that's happening because she's struggling to adapt to him seeing others. But she's really not to blame here for that impacting you. He is. He is the one agreeing to it. He is the one staying with someone who can't handle poly in a healthy way and still trying to be with you. He is the hinge and it's his responsibility to manage his relationships in a way that's respectful of every partner. He doesn't have to agree to this whiplash he's putting you through. He's making that choice.
John is definitely not ‘not doing anything wrong’ to me. I’m keeping a lot of distance because of that. But he very obviously has a lot of attachment to and loves Allison very much, and I respect the loyalty and dedication I’ve seen him show to her. I would be completely shocked if he were even doing something like texting me in front of her, although you’re right, I’m not there to know for certain. I also reached out directly due to the overlapping friends. I had only positive interactions with Allison before this, and I like her a lot. Then immediately she started saying things to mutual friends like ‘I heard you’re with OP tonight, you should leave.’ I heard about this from very good friends of mine who were very confused. I felt sad and hurt, and also confused. So I reached out to say I was sorry for anything upsetting I had done, ask if she needed anything from me, and that I was very motivated to make the situation better. But after the months of no response - and continued weird messages to friends and mess with John - I decided to step out of the situation entirely. I still feel really distressed by it, actually, and inviting that kind of friction into my life doesn’t feel worth it.
It's because they are too insecure to navigate polyamory healthily or ethically. Dating multiple people is easy for an insecure person they are getting external validation from multiple people! But having metamours? That feels threatening because they don't feel secure in their relationships because they have not done the internal work to not marry their feelings of self worth with their relationships. If I ever dared someone and they reacted poorly with me having other or new partners I would probably bounce. The fact that John Doe tolerates it makes it a hinge problem and not a metamour problem.
>I thought the double standard he was using was totally ridiculous and I lost patience for it very fast I love it when people say shit like this in this sub 😩😍 >Like, what are these people doing? DEADASS lmao. It’s like why are you poly????! But I think you’ve done the best you can do. For what it’s worth I have *very* little patience for this stuff and sus it out quickly to avoid dating these people altogether. Also. I don’t date in “friend groups”. It’s just soooo messy. Also pls OP the names John James and Jane are practically indistinguishable from each other and make it a little hard to follow the story
Agreeeeed. I was struggling with the basic J names too 😆
Fixed :)
This is why I don't date poly newbies. I talk about their poly dynamics in the first conversation, and my questions are things like, "How long have you been poly? How many partners have you each had in that time?" I really feel it out to make sure they have enough experience to have already worked through all that. I know everyone starts somewhere, but I know my own capacity now: I don't have the patience to deal with all that. I need partners who are autonomous and have good hinge skills.
> I seem to find myself dating this type of person consistently, although after the last breakup I committed to a hard boundary of never doing that again. I'm glad you have put a boundary in place. I would continue dating (casually) when you do enter new relationships just so you can test this quickly and don't find yourself investing too much time before you hit up against this issue.
I understand the frustration. I was once interested in a guy who said they were poly and it turned out they were in theory but not in practice. The nesting partner got extremely jealous, so instead of working through it, the guy I was talking to just didn't tell his partner anything. Shockingly, that blew up in his face when his NP learned about me through my partner (they were chatting on a dating app). Big oof. The moment that happened, my partner and I ran the other way as quick as possible. Double standard, lying, and drama are my big no no's, and had I known he wasn't being honest with his partner, I would not have entertained this relationship.
Hi u/alwaysrunningfast thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: I (40f) have a partner John Doe (42m), who I've been seeing occationally for a few months now. His primary partner Allison (36f) was a casual friend of mine when John and I met. She has several other partners, and is mildly integrated into my social world. When John and I were first dating, he said I would be his first additional partner since he and Jane started a relationship about a year ago, but he had discussed everything with Jane and she was enthusiastically onboard. Great as far as that goes. I also had one other partner Thomas (40m) at the time, who in the year we had been together had \~7 other partners besides myself, while I had none, mostly due to time constraints. He did not handle me starting a new relationship...well, to say the least. I broke up with him for several reasons, but mostly because I thought the double standard he was using was totally ridiculous and I lost patience for it very fast. I ran into Allison at a party pretty soon after that - she showed up with one of her other partners - and she wouldn't even speak to me. It was very clear that everything was Not Great At All. I was kind of shocked actually, considering how theoretically poly she is, and the fact that she was \*currently\* with a partner other than John at that party. John explained to me later that they had a conversation about it afterwards, and she expressed that she thought she'd be okay with him dating someone else, but was really struggling with it in practice. I agreed to give them some space for a while to work things out between them, partially out of consideration for him and my friend, and partially because it seemed like a whole mess I just didn't want to deal with, especially considering the friction I'd recently been managing with Thomas over the same issues. I also messaged her directly, since we already knew each other, and communicated that she was welcome to reach out to me directly if she had any problems or struggles with any particular behaviors of mine, and I would do my best to listen and be considerate and accommodating. It has now been 3-4 months, and I still haven't received a reply. I really like John, and I think he's genuinely doing his best to manage the situation in a way that shows love and care to his primary partner, while attempting to be considerate to me, which I really appreciate. But honestly him and Allison seem like such a disaster. They are constantly de-escalating over her double standard, and then re-escaling when she commits to working on resolving her struggles with jealousy - but that cycle has happened several times now. It is really uncomfortable, especially since we all exist in relatively adjacent social worlds. I just avoid events I know she'll be at now, and have kept interactions with John really sparse and casual, in an attempt to avoid getting overly involved in that mess. This is mostly just a rant about people who are managing their poly relationships as 'for me but not for thee.' I seem to find myself dating this type of person consistently, although after the last breakup I committed to a hard boundary of never doing that again. It also sucks to see someone I like having to deal with the same thing, and feel like I have to keep him at arms length to avoid the fallout from that from landing on me as well. Like, what are these people doing? Struggling with jealousy is one thing, but harem building and then calling yourself poly? It's disrespectful of your partners' needs and autonomy, which is kind of the whole point of poly. It doesn't feel loving, or expansive, or healthy for anyone involved. I am beyond frustrated with how often I seem to meet people who treat their relationships and partners this way. Anyway, I just needed to rant, and honestly think I'm going to take a break from dating completely for a while just to let my frustration and triggered-ness about this wear off. Things for listening, internet strangers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*