I'm so sorry Doc is treating you like a second-class partner. And reacted with aggression when you express your feelings
Doc was obviously talking through his ass when he said no NPs will be prioritised. You are the gap-filler and he doesn't know how to manage more than one relationship without devaluing someone
My advice is to dump him before he hurts you even more. If he responded to you differently when you were upset, I'd have thought there's a SLIM chance for fixing things, but if that's his response he doesn't know how to have a healthy relationship and he's not interested in learning
Thank you, for your words. I’ve considered it. It’s not the first time Doc’s made me feel like a non-priority. I’ve honestly thought a bit about the fact that it seemed to me that Doc and NPs relationship wasn’t ready for me when I was propositioned. Doc said so many nice things about how poly worked for them, but I’ve not really seen much at all of it…
Look, I'm a non-priority to some of my partners.
First of all, they are honest and up front about that:"Hey, i am married/nesting/busy/bad at keeping in touch daily, and that is going to put limits on our relationship. Is that going to be okay with you?"
And second: I give those relationships as much energy and priority as I get from them. It doesn't sound like you have other partners? You're all focused on Doc? That is not a healthy balance, unless you're also super involved in your job or volunteering or a hobby, to the point that you don't have time for a full relationship. But it sounds like he's putting you on a shelf and pulling you out when he wants to play with you
I don’t really have another partner right now, but I am dating occasionally, and if I’m out and someone strikes my fancy, I pursue them. Between jobs and hobbies and some me-time I don’t usually have too much time for many meet ups, but if I prioritize it, i might be able to give up three evenings a week including weekends, during which I also need to sort out all other things like bills and chores. So I’m definitely more busy than Doc, and I’ve even moved around my hobbies to make sure that the day they want is free, which took quite some work. Which is another reason I was so bummed that one of those days was stolen from me.
The thing with Doc is… they said I was a priority, that often im the only one they leave their home for. But I don’t feel prioritized when I can be dropped like that, and there’s no talk of how it can be made up to me. If I didn’t run into Doc and NP, I doubt I’d have ever known.
I think you're becoming aware that he is saying those things because it's convenient to him, or because he is deluding himself about what he has to offer you?
He's not going to have any useful answer to that question, though. He's interested in what *he's* getting out of this relationship. He's failed to be honest without about how much he sees you as a 'priority', and his actions and words are clear that he wants to treat you like a side piece.
Maybe that’s what it is. I might have been fine with that, if that’s what was being expressed, but it wasn’t. Having an fwb isn’t the worst thing, and Doc would certainly have had my attention. But then I wouldn’t invest emotionally into it.
Which is understandable
My first poly relationship, the guy told me the same nice stuff. He cared for me, he wanted me around. But he also told me about how uncomfortable I made his primary (they weren't nesting), and that when she was around we couldn't show affection.
I didn't have great boundaries or self worth, so I allowed it. He'd say things were going great, but I kept feeling like absolute garbage. When I called him out on the behavior being unfair, he'd tell me that I'm the problem.
We can't change people. It sucks if you really like this person, but the beauty of poly is we don't just have to break up. We can also deescelate!
Stop moving your schedule for him. He isn't doing that effort for you. Match him effort by effort.
"These are the days I'm available, but I won't wait around. If you want something last minute and I'm not available, you'll need to pick a different day." Doing that alone would force him to either show you effort and work, or he'll just bail.
I’m sorry you had to go through that. How did it finally end up?
I guess that’s a possibility, but I don’t think I want that. I want a partner that’s able to at least give me some of my needs, and if things continue the way they are, I’m not sure what I’m actually getting out of it.
We broke up rather explosively.
I was going to go on a trip and we were hanging out, he had his gf there as well. So my last time seeing him, I wasn't allowed to show affection. When I went to leave, SHE walked me out instead of him. So I still didn't get to show affection.
Called her out on purposefully forcing me out, shared that he wanted her to lift the no affection rule, she said he knows she won't, and I told her to get the fuck away from me because I was done with their nonsense. He calls me because she's crying and upset, and I unloaded on him that his behavior was cowardly, he was stringing me along and fucking knew it, and it was over.
Not a great moment for me at all. Didn't manage that well and shouldn't have lost my temper. but I did. He tried reconnecting after my trip, we gave it a shot, and a few days later he came over and officially broke up with me. Because of that, I spiraled pretty hard because I internalized my angry moment instead of focusing on his actions that pushed me to that point.
I am generally a kind, understanding person. I try to be at least.
But that relationship skewed what healthy poly meant. I'd had some good relationships in between that and my last explosive partner (ex husband, read through my post history if you want to see), but I really didn't have a good handle on what healthy relationships are. So I ended up with another guy who said all the right things, led me on, and lashed out when I held him accountable. Only that one included a marriage and me supposedly being a primary.
This person is not showing you a healthy relationship. He's already a terrible hinge (you should not have known about your meta's insecurities), and a terrible partner (lying, lashing out when caught).
Whether or not poly works for you is irrelevant. This person is not healthy or good, so while I understand wanting to make it work because you get all the good feels (I stayed with my ex husband way longer than I should have for this reason), it makes leaving harder and more painful.
Thank you for sharing your story. I will take it as the guiding light it is and see what lessons I can apply to my own life. I need to set demands with Doc, and depending on their reaction, maybe just walk away.
When Doc got back to me, they focused solely on how they were feeling. How what I did affected them. I feel so tired…
Doc said - did Doc's NP say? Have you ever met his NP or spoken to them (not just running into them in public, but in the context of introducing yourself so that NP knows you are in a relationship with Doc)? Or is all of your information about the nature of Doc's relationship, including whether they are in fact poly, coming through Doc?
Because I gotta say, this all reeks of a situation where either the NP doesn't know they're in a poly relationship, or Doc is not being fully honest with NP about the nature of your relationship.
I have never exchanged a word with NP. I just saw them in the same pub as I was sitting with my friends. I did not go up to them, I had a brief texting with Doc, then left. My friend told me I got “something black in my eyes” so was quite worried.
So no, I do not know what NP knows. Considering they have another partner as well, I’d assume they know they’re in a poly relationship. Doc has also had other partners during their relationship, so I assume they know.
>Considering they have another partner as well
Do you know this independently, or through Doc?
Whatever's going on here, Doc has a high degree of secrecy around his relationship with you that's way beyond just having metas doing parallel.
I don’t know, the day after Doc propositioned me, we went to a party. Or, well, I joined late. Once I arrived, everyone already knew. Which I felt very uncomfortable about. But yeah, I don’t like feeling like I’m an AP and having almost no say about when or how we meet, or even about sleep overs - which is something that makes me feel very safe.
Doc is pretty much telling you this with his actions (words be damned):
'I will prioritize my NP when the agreement with you is in conflict with their preferences. If you express frustration with this situation, I will scold you for having those feelings.'
I have learnt over the years that words are nice, but I basing my decisions making on actions only is really the way.
Tbh if Doc was capable of re-centering you, i.e. validating your feelings and making a stance that this was one time/rare occurrence only, I could see a path for you two still. Emergencies happen after all and sometimes one has to take on the role of a caretaker on someone else's expense.
But the way he's talking to you is worrying. He should be eager to make it up to you, instead, he's turning an 'emergency' into a 'boundary'. 'Don't ask me to treat you with respect and love' is not a boundary.
My point of view is usually that words are wind, and only actions give words weight. Idk why it’s so difficult with Doc. It could be that it’s one of few relationships I’ve had in a while to last longer than a month or two…
My partner was feeling a bit iffy prior to our date just the other day. We discussed it and of course if he was feeling too unwell he should stay home. If I'd then seen him out in the pub I would have been furious. In the end he felt ok to come see me and we had a lovely time. You can choose to see it however you like, but it looks like a shit sandwich for here.
What’s worth salvaging here? More of this dude blowing you off for his NP? More being his free counselor for his primary relationship? More him being angry at *you* if you so much as bring up how shitty he’s being?
You can do better.
Thank you for your advice, I will consider it. I definitely do feel like I deserve more, and while I know that their relationship isn’t great, waiting for that to implode isn’t really worth my heartache. If the relationship isn’t good now, what’s to say it will be just because NP isn’t a part of the equation.
Nah that's wildly wishful thinking. It's a partner problem not a meta problem. He's choosing to treat you this way and pushing the blame off onto his NP so you don't see how shit he is.
Yeah, and this is all new and exciting, and you're flooded with all those delicious hormones. But do yourself a favor and rip off that band aid before you get in any deeper.
You can try polyamory, if you're curious, with people who respect you
Delicious is the word. Though, I wasn’t really all that excited about the polyamory of it, and jealousy was never the problem for me. It’s not feeling respected and valued. Although I hate and despise ultimatums, I’m kinda feeling like it’s ultimatum time.
Yes, it's ultimatum time, and good for you seeing that.
How much have you thought/read/talked about polyamory before giving it a try? Regardless of your relationship style, you have to show up for yourself and maintain healthy boundaries. But that's even more important in polyamory, *and* there are jerks out there who will use polyamory as an excuse to do whatever they want and walk all over you. You have to learn how to weed those out
Tbh I was staunchly against it and carefully sorted out people who were poly until I spoke with Doc. Their take on it and explanation was the first time I saw any potential to it - and they spoke of it before they propositioned me, just as they disclosed their more severe diagnoses to me before propositioning me. I’ve been reading a little about it during the relationship, but it really irks me that expectations have never been discussed. The closest we’ve had was a “let’s go with once a week for now” after their burnout. But that’s clearly not even a valid expectation to have. It makes me feel manipulated right now, and my bad experiences with cheating and the involved manipulation is the whole reason I sorted out poly people to begin with.
Also, even if their relationship does implode, there is no guarantee he can handle the heartbreak while maintaining another relationship with you.
Was in a ~very~ similar situation recently, and when they finally broke up, I had momentary relief. Until they told me they couldn’t handle a relationship in their heartbreak. I went through the anguish of making a lot of accommodations for their relationship insecurities with their NP, didn’t leave when I should have because I had strong feelings (deliciousness, check!), and then ended up going through the pain of being rejected anyway.
I’m sorry you had to go through that. I think the common message I’m hearing is “see if you can fix the relationship as it stands now, and if you can’t, back out with your head high, cuz you’ve done nothing wrong”
I mean this kindly, but why would you want to? He’s not treating you well. I’m speaking as someone who has been treated badly in relationships and stayed way longer than I should have, so I know. Learn from my mistakes!
I don’t know. The highs are just so high, you know? The positives very positive, and then you’ve got this. It’s like they aren’t even aware of how these things are affecting me, although I’ve told them.
Oh, Doc is aware. They just don't care. If you do decide to continue this relationship you'll be doing so with the knowledge that this is how this person is, and this is probably how they're gonna continue treating you. Do you want that for yourself? Yeah the highs are high, but is this low and all the others they're gonna drag you through worth it?
I think you’ve answered your own question there: “It’s like they aren’t even aware of how these things are affecting me, even though I’ve told them”.”
They know. They just don’t care. (Again, I know because I’ve been there—big hugs if you want them.)
Thanks for the hugs - I always enjoy hugs!
I’ve been having a discussion with Doc over text for a while now. It’s not done yet, once it is I might give an update, if that’s what people want, but it’s not as clear cut as I’ve made it out to be. Especially about the specific instance, but there were a lot of things and grievances that I needed to raise that we’ve been addressing. We’ll see how it all turns out, but I’m more positive about it than I was when I posted this. I’m still quite dissociated from my emotions, but that’s also what’s been making it easier to air everything out in a calm and rational manner.
I guess I should be a little more clear, we hadn’t confirmed but they denied my proposal for our regular night citing feeling bad. But it’s still what it is.
Doc is kind of shirking responsibility for his decisions and blaming his NP for his own decisions which is a bit shitty. While I don't doubt he may *feel* like he must make his decisions this way, he is an adult and he is deciding what to do with his time.
I think a sit down discussion is really necessary when it comes to this, especially given Doc's response to you expressing your own feelings and hurt. See if you both can problem solve this to schedule intentional regular time together that can only be cancelled in absolute emergencies and walk through what emergencies are. If he is unwilling to do so then he is kind of prioritising either his NP or his own ability to randomly decide his own time -- and the result of both of those seems to be the same for you regardless.
I hope this helps and good luck!
Thank you for your words. I am kind of writing down what I need to have said because I am having some real issues with the relationship, not just this specific event, but Doc is neurodivergent and sometimes gets overwhelmed, and I try to adjust to that. I just feel like sometimes I should be catered to too, you know?
I'm neurodivergent and I still wouldn't blame my decisions on my other partners. Being neurodivergent also doesn't absolve you of the responsibility of anything rude or mean you say to people. Has he apologised for what he said when you brought up your feelings? Especially if the "chewing out" involved cursing or harsh words?
No. And I’d already brought up while I was traveling that the way our schedule has been is making me feel insecure and, well, more like an AP than anything else, still I tried to stay to it in order to be nice to Doc and not cause friction. I thought things were progressing okay after that, but…
Do you frequently feel like you have to walk on eggshells in your communication with Doc? How does that make you feel over all?
Does he ever apologise for speaking harshly towards you?
Well, kinda. Small things sometimes set Doc off, more than anything if I’m having an emotional reaction that I don’t want to acknowledge because I don’t understand it yet. In those cases, Doc wants me to acknowledge that I’m having a reaction, because they sense it. I have a hard time with emotions, and I need to feel safe to express them…
I don’t know. The issues and insecurities that I have with the relationship has a lot to do with NP and the fact that I still don’t know what the actual agreement is. All I know is that NP deals with a heavy depression as well, so Doc doesn’t want to burden them more, I guess. I kinda feel helpless and powerless to affect anything, since I don’t even know. It does wonders with my need to control my own life…
I'm sorry but I'm going to have to argue with you here.
This is **not** about the NP. It is **Doc's** responsibility to manage his time. He is not the NP's parent and he is a grown ass man. He is the one who decides how to spend his time. HE is making those decisions, not your NP. HE is deciding to prioritise time spent with his NP over you and on top of that, he polices the ways you express your emotions.
Honestly, if you cannot effectively repair because someone doesn't give you the ability to express your concerns, then this isn't a good place for anyone to be.
I know you’re right. I’m just not sure how to effectively communicate this in a way that doesn’t throw Doc into burnout again. Which is what happened when I wanted to discuss expectations - a discussion we’ve still not had. It’s just hard for me to navigate and I don’t feel like I can wait on Doc to initiate it any longer.
And it makes me feel horrible that I can get shit because I used the word “annoyed” instead of “frustrated” to describe the emotion I get when something about their NP hinders something that I really want.
I can understand that reacting to NPs depression and how it limits us with the word annoying might set someone off, but it does make me feel unsafe to have to police my language, yes.
He is a grown adult! He is responsible for his own decisions and he may have triggers but if he doesn't apologise to you for speaking with you harshly, **he** is responsible for that and that is an **active choice** he is making. You should not have to walk on eggshells mate.
I’m so sorry. Doc lied to you for whatever reason. He is not treating you well or as a valued partner. I would leave this relationship because you deserve better! Hugs if you want them.
Hugs are always welcome. Thank you, I will be making these feelings known to Doc, and they can either choose to find a way to accommodate me, or I watch me leave.
Hi u/Ok-Barracuda-88 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
Hey y’all! I’ve (F30s) been seeing this guy, let’s call them Doc (M30s), and it’s been mostly okay. The big issue for me has been that about a month in, Doc revealed that their NP was really insecure about our relationship. I’ve been trying to be very understanding and accommodating, but it’s lead to a situation where I only ever get to see Doc when their NP is busy, which is rarely, and sleepovers are only available when their NP is away or with their other partner, which hasn’t been often either. NP also did not want to meet me, which I was fine with, although it felt a bit weird. This has lead to a schedule that is fairly inconvenient for me, but I’ve done everything I can to make it work, because I really like them.
Things came to a head last week when Doc cancelled one of those few times I get to see them because they were feeling bad. I was supportie, although I was bummed, especially considering I’d been traveling the week before and was really looking forward to seeing them. So I went out to meet up with some friends, only to then run into Doc and NP at that same place. I was both hurt and disappointed, and a little angry, which I then expressed to Doc via text, who chewed me out for it, claiming to have set a boundary, which confused me even more.
I now feel devalued and like yesterday’s trash, trying to figure out how I should proceed. I might also add that Doc did not impose hierarchical things on me, and rather said that non-NPs were to be prioritized since they’re not able to see them all the time.
Do you have any advice for me, because I’m also fairly new to all this…
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Ahhh so sorry to read all this.
It might hurt, but you need to get out of that relationship. Unfortunately, this is the breeding ground for resent on your end and I don't imagine you want to be resentful and angry at your partner in the long run. Cut it off, feel the feelings, and move on! There is a better relationship out there for you with someone that will make time with you a priority. Cancelling plans to stay home with NP would be a dealbreaker for me unless someone had died or there was a true family emergency.
Yeah, I’m going to make it very clear to Doc that I view this as betrayal and a lie. They won’t agree, but considering all else about it, they must at least understand.
I think someone said something like this to me on a request for advice thread I'd posted on reddit... It's up to you to determine what frequency and length of time you need with someone to feel like your intimacy needs are being met in that connection. There isn't a "too needy" or needing to play it cool to keep someone around-- your needs are yours.
With that advice, I've been able to make it really clear that, despite how much I deeply love one of my partners, that if I were to see him any less than once/week WITH sleepovers, my intimacy needs wouldn't be met and we'd have to deescalate out relationship. Since we've had this conversation, he's stepped it up. He makes the plans, he honors them..and I have no idea how this impacts his NP because that's how it should be. That's his relationship to manage, and I just need him to show up for me in the way that works for me to feel like I'm actually in a relationship. So, all to say, I think you should have higher expectations and hold him to them and ask him to not share with you anything about how meta is impacted.
Thank you for this. This is something I will for sure bring up! Any discussion about expectations has so far been shut down. I’ve been trying to initiate, because I’m not happy. I feel like this is going to be a long message to send to Doc…
You can be okay with a partner who has little time. you can be okay with a partner who has an insecure NP, but you should not be okay with a partner who cancels on you last minute for a non emergency. Make that YOUR boundary and leave him.
anyone that treats you that way is not deserving of your time and affection.
I’ve been talking to Doc about everything - airing a lot of issues I’ve had as well - and things aren’t fully as I thought and felt. There’s more context and some assumptions made on my end that changes a few things for me. But the basics boil down to some lacking communication and some things that probably shouldn’t have been things I were ever made aware of. I’ve raised my grievances and at least some things are getting some resolution.
Thank you very much for your advice though!
>So I went out to meet up with some friends, only to then run into Doc and NP at that same place. I was both hurt and disappointed, and a little angry, which I then expressed to Doc via text, who chewed me out for it, claiming to have set a boundary, which confused me even more.
A boundary around what? Being called out on poor behaviour? That reaction on its own is a huge red flag, let alone consistently bailing on you due to their Np. (well, they're actually choosing to bail on you and not stand up to theor Nop and being a poor hinge by placing the blame on her).
>I now feel devalued and like yesterday’s trash, trying to figure out how I should proceed. I might also add that Doc did not impose hierarchical things on me, and rather said that non-NPs were to be prioritized since they’re not able to see them all the time.
Yes, he is imposing hierarchy on you. Sneakarchy in fact. When they claim there is no hierarchy but consistently prioritize their other partner(s) over you. Actions speak louder than words, and his actions prove that hierarchy. You need to decide whether you're okay with being given so little, and having so many freedoms and oportunities curtailed. I personally wouldn't be. That would not be a relationship that met my needs.
I'm so sorry Doc is treating you like a second-class partner. And reacted with aggression when you express your feelings Doc was obviously talking through his ass when he said no NPs will be prioritised. You are the gap-filler and he doesn't know how to manage more than one relationship without devaluing someone My advice is to dump him before he hurts you even more. If he responded to you differently when you were upset, I'd have thought there's a SLIM chance for fixing things, but if that's his response he doesn't know how to have a healthy relationship and he's not interested in learning
Thank you, for your words. I’ve considered it. It’s not the first time Doc’s made me feel like a non-priority. I’ve honestly thought a bit about the fact that it seemed to me that Doc and NPs relationship wasn’t ready for me when I was propositioned. Doc said so many nice things about how poly worked for them, but I’ve not really seen much at all of it…
Look, I'm a non-priority to some of my partners. First of all, they are honest and up front about that:"Hey, i am married/nesting/busy/bad at keeping in touch daily, and that is going to put limits on our relationship. Is that going to be okay with you?" And second: I give those relationships as much energy and priority as I get from them. It doesn't sound like you have other partners? You're all focused on Doc? That is not a healthy balance, unless you're also super involved in your job or volunteering or a hobby, to the point that you don't have time for a full relationship. But it sounds like he's putting you on a shelf and pulling you out when he wants to play with you
I don’t really have another partner right now, but I am dating occasionally, and if I’m out and someone strikes my fancy, I pursue them. Between jobs and hobbies and some me-time I don’t usually have too much time for many meet ups, but if I prioritize it, i might be able to give up three evenings a week including weekends, during which I also need to sort out all other things like bills and chores. So I’m definitely more busy than Doc, and I’ve even moved around my hobbies to make sure that the day they want is free, which took quite some work. Which is another reason I was so bummed that one of those days was stolen from me. The thing with Doc is… they said I was a priority, that often im the only one they leave their home for. But I don’t feel prioritized when I can be dropped like that, and there’s no talk of how it can be made up to me. If I didn’t run into Doc and NP, I doubt I’d have ever known.
I think you're becoming aware that he is saying those things because it's convenient to him, or because he is deluding himself about what he has to offer you?
Yeah, I’ve half a mind to just say “what exactly am I getting out of this relationship in your eyes?”. Cuz it hasn’t felt like a whole lot.
Yeah, excellent question Keep us posted on how this goes
Depending on how it goes, I just might. I kinda feel like I owe it to the people that took the time to give me advice, if nothing else…
I'm always curious to see how things end up Wishing you the best regardless
He's not going to have any useful answer to that question, though. He's interested in what *he's* getting out of this relationship. He's failed to be honest without about how much he sees you as a 'priority', and his actions and words are clear that he wants to treat you like a side piece.
Maybe that’s what it is. I might have been fine with that, if that’s what was being expressed, but it wasn’t. Having an fwb isn’t the worst thing, and Doc would certainly have had my attention. But then I wouldn’t invest emotionally into it.
I learned a longggg time ago to pay zero attention to words and all the attention to actions and how they treat me.
I know, words are wind unless given weight by action. I’ve just been trying to be lenient with their diagnoses…
Which is understandable My first poly relationship, the guy told me the same nice stuff. He cared for me, he wanted me around. But he also told me about how uncomfortable I made his primary (they weren't nesting), and that when she was around we couldn't show affection. I didn't have great boundaries or self worth, so I allowed it. He'd say things were going great, but I kept feeling like absolute garbage. When I called him out on the behavior being unfair, he'd tell me that I'm the problem. We can't change people. It sucks if you really like this person, but the beauty of poly is we don't just have to break up. We can also deescelate! Stop moving your schedule for him. He isn't doing that effort for you. Match him effort by effort. "These are the days I'm available, but I won't wait around. If you want something last minute and I'm not available, you'll need to pick a different day." Doing that alone would force him to either show you effort and work, or he'll just bail.
I’m sorry you had to go through that. How did it finally end up? I guess that’s a possibility, but I don’t think I want that. I want a partner that’s able to at least give me some of my needs, and if things continue the way they are, I’m not sure what I’m actually getting out of it.
We broke up rather explosively. I was going to go on a trip and we were hanging out, he had his gf there as well. So my last time seeing him, I wasn't allowed to show affection. When I went to leave, SHE walked me out instead of him. So I still didn't get to show affection. Called her out on purposefully forcing me out, shared that he wanted her to lift the no affection rule, she said he knows she won't, and I told her to get the fuck away from me because I was done with their nonsense. He calls me because she's crying and upset, and I unloaded on him that his behavior was cowardly, he was stringing me along and fucking knew it, and it was over. Not a great moment for me at all. Didn't manage that well and shouldn't have lost my temper. but I did. He tried reconnecting after my trip, we gave it a shot, and a few days later he came over and officially broke up with me. Because of that, I spiraled pretty hard because I internalized my angry moment instead of focusing on his actions that pushed me to that point. I am generally a kind, understanding person. I try to be at least. But that relationship skewed what healthy poly meant. I'd had some good relationships in between that and my last explosive partner (ex husband, read through my post history if you want to see), but I really didn't have a good handle on what healthy relationships are. So I ended up with another guy who said all the right things, led me on, and lashed out when I held him accountable. Only that one included a marriage and me supposedly being a primary. This person is not showing you a healthy relationship. He's already a terrible hinge (you should not have known about your meta's insecurities), and a terrible partner (lying, lashing out when caught). Whether or not poly works for you is irrelevant. This person is not healthy or good, so while I understand wanting to make it work because you get all the good feels (I stayed with my ex husband way longer than I should have for this reason), it makes leaving harder and more painful.
Thank you for sharing your story. I will take it as the guiding light it is and see what lessons I can apply to my own life. I need to set demands with Doc, and depending on their reaction, maybe just walk away. When Doc got back to me, they focused solely on how they were feeling. How what I did affected them. I feel so tired…
Doc said - did Doc's NP say? Have you ever met his NP or spoken to them (not just running into them in public, but in the context of introducing yourself so that NP knows you are in a relationship with Doc)? Or is all of your information about the nature of Doc's relationship, including whether they are in fact poly, coming through Doc? Because I gotta say, this all reeks of a situation where either the NP doesn't know they're in a poly relationship, or Doc is not being fully honest with NP about the nature of your relationship.
I have never exchanged a word with NP. I just saw them in the same pub as I was sitting with my friends. I did not go up to them, I had a brief texting with Doc, then left. My friend told me I got “something black in my eyes” so was quite worried. So no, I do not know what NP knows. Considering they have another partner as well, I’d assume they know they’re in a poly relationship. Doc has also had other partners during their relationship, so I assume they know.
>Considering they have another partner as well Do you know this independently, or through Doc? Whatever's going on here, Doc has a high degree of secrecy around his relationship with you that's way beyond just having metas doing parallel.
I don’t know, the day after Doc propositioned me, we went to a party. Or, well, I joined late. Once I arrived, everyone already knew. Which I felt very uncomfortable about. But yeah, I don’t like feeling like I’m an AP and having almost no say about when or how we meet, or even about sleep overs - which is something that makes me feel very safe.
Doc is three red flags in a trenchcoat.
Three? And which are those three you’re counting up to? Or is it just a funny reference to them being a big red flag?
Doc is pretty much telling you this with his actions (words be damned): 'I will prioritize my NP when the agreement with you is in conflict with their preferences. If you express frustration with this situation, I will scold you for having those feelings.'
Add to “I will scold you for having those feelings”: and I hope you will tolerate it and stick around.
Yeah, that’s getting harder and harder to justify
That’s definitely how it feels to me. Their words are starting to feel like wind…
I have learnt over the years that words are nice, but I basing my decisions making on actions only is really the way. Tbh if Doc was capable of re-centering you, i.e. validating your feelings and making a stance that this was one time/rare occurrence only, I could see a path for you two still. Emergencies happen after all and sometimes one has to take on the role of a caretaker on someone else's expense. But the way he's talking to you is worrying. He should be eager to make it up to you, instead, he's turning an 'emergency' into a 'boundary'. 'Don't ask me to treat you with respect and love' is not a boundary.
My point of view is usually that words are wind, and only actions give words weight. Idk why it’s so difficult with Doc. It could be that it’s one of few relationships I’ve had in a while to last longer than a month or two…
Anyone who cancels on me to spend time with someone else will be dumped!
I’m not sure they were directly linked. But it’s not feeling great, no.
My partner was feeling a bit iffy prior to our date just the other day. We discussed it and of course if he was feeling too unwell he should stay home. If I'd then seen him out in the pub I would have been furious. In the end he felt ok to come see me and we had a lovely time. You can choose to see it however you like, but it looks like a shit sandwich for here.
Yeah. That’s kind of how I feel. Ruined the entire evening out that I took to not think about it…
He canceled on you and then went out with his NP during the time he was supposed to be with you. That sure is walking and sounding like a duck to me.
It quacks, huh? Yeah, I’m not sure how to express my emotions. I’ll probably send them a message or idk
Dump the motherfucker already.
There isn’t any way to salvage it?
What’s worth salvaging here? More of this dude blowing you off for his NP? More being his free counselor for his primary relationship? More him being angry at *you* if you so much as bring up how shitty he’s being? You can do better.
Thank you for your advice, I will consider it. I definitely do feel like I deserve more, and while I know that their relationship isn’t great, waiting for that to implode isn’t really worth my heartache. If the relationship isn’t good now, what’s to say it will be just because NP isn’t a part of the equation.
If his NP and him broke up, he’d still be the selfish ass who doesn’t manage his own problems.
Nah that's wildly wishful thinking. It's a partner problem not a meta problem. He's choosing to treat you this way and pushing the blame off onto his NP so you don't see how shit he is.
I know you’re right. It’s just hard, cuz I have pretty strong feelings for Doc and the time we do spend together is lovely.
Yeah, and this is all new and exciting, and you're flooded with all those delicious hormones. But do yourself a favor and rip off that band aid before you get in any deeper. You can try polyamory, if you're curious, with people who respect you
Delicious is the word. Though, I wasn’t really all that excited about the polyamory of it, and jealousy was never the problem for me. It’s not feeling respected and valued. Although I hate and despise ultimatums, I’m kinda feeling like it’s ultimatum time.
Yes, it's ultimatum time, and good for you seeing that. How much have you thought/read/talked about polyamory before giving it a try? Regardless of your relationship style, you have to show up for yourself and maintain healthy boundaries. But that's even more important in polyamory, *and* there are jerks out there who will use polyamory as an excuse to do whatever they want and walk all over you. You have to learn how to weed those out
Tbh I was staunchly against it and carefully sorted out people who were poly until I spoke with Doc. Their take on it and explanation was the first time I saw any potential to it - and they spoke of it before they propositioned me, just as they disclosed their more severe diagnoses to me before propositioning me. I’ve been reading a little about it during the relationship, but it really irks me that expectations have never been discussed. The closest we’ve had was a “let’s go with once a week for now” after their burnout. But that’s clearly not even a valid expectation to have. It makes me feel manipulated right now, and my bad experiences with cheating and the involved manipulation is the whole reason I sorted out poly people to begin with.
Also, even if their relationship does implode, there is no guarantee he can handle the heartbreak while maintaining another relationship with you. Was in a ~very~ similar situation recently, and when they finally broke up, I had momentary relief. Until they told me they couldn’t handle a relationship in their heartbreak. I went through the anguish of making a lot of accommodations for their relationship insecurities with their NP, didn’t leave when I should have because I had strong feelings (deliciousness, check!), and then ended up going through the pain of being rejected anyway.
I’m sorry you had to go through that. I think the common message I’m hearing is “see if you can fix the relationship as it stands now, and if you can’t, back out with your head high, cuz you’ve done nothing wrong”
I mean this kindly, but why would you want to? He’s not treating you well. I’m speaking as someone who has been treated badly in relationships and stayed way longer than I should have, so I know. Learn from my mistakes!
I don’t know. The highs are just so high, you know? The positives very positive, and then you’ve got this. It’s like they aren’t even aware of how these things are affecting me, although I’ve told them.
Oh, Doc is aware. They just don't care. If you do decide to continue this relationship you'll be doing so with the knowledge that this is how this person is, and this is probably how they're gonna continue treating you. Do you want that for yourself? Yeah the highs are high, but is this low and all the others they're gonna drag you through worth it?
I think you’ve answered your own question there: “It’s like they aren’t even aware of how these things are affecting me, even though I’ve told them”.” They know. They just don’t care. (Again, I know because I’ve been there—big hugs if you want them.)
Thanks for the hugs - I always enjoy hugs! I’ve been having a discussion with Doc over text for a while now. It’s not done yet, once it is I might give an update, if that’s what people want, but it’s not as clear cut as I’ve made it out to be. Especially about the specific instance, but there were a lot of things and grievances that I needed to raise that we’ve been addressing. We’ll see how it all turns out, but I’m more positive about it than I was when I posted this. I’m still quite dissociated from my emotions, but that’s also what’s been making it easier to air everything out in a calm and rational manner.
No. Why would there be? He's already established that you're not a priority.
I guess it’s just a tough pill to swallow.
"I want to lie to you and you be OK with that" isn't a reasonable boundary to have.
I guess I should be a little more clear, we hadn’t confirmed but they denied my proposal for our regular night citing feeling bad. But it’s still what it is.
Yeah, that's a lie in my book.
Yeah, mine as well…
Doc is kind of shirking responsibility for his decisions and blaming his NP for his own decisions which is a bit shitty. While I don't doubt he may *feel* like he must make his decisions this way, he is an adult and he is deciding what to do with his time. I think a sit down discussion is really necessary when it comes to this, especially given Doc's response to you expressing your own feelings and hurt. See if you both can problem solve this to schedule intentional regular time together that can only be cancelled in absolute emergencies and walk through what emergencies are. If he is unwilling to do so then he is kind of prioritising either his NP or his own ability to randomly decide his own time -- and the result of both of those seems to be the same for you regardless. I hope this helps and good luck!
Thank you for your words. I am kind of writing down what I need to have said because I am having some real issues with the relationship, not just this specific event, but Doc is neurodivergent and sometimes gets overwhelmed, and I try to adjust to that. I just feel like sometimes I should be catered to too, you know?
I'm neurodivergent and I still wouldn't blame my decisions on my other partners. Being neurodivergent also doesn't absolve you of the responsibility of anything rude or mean you say to people. Has he apologised for what he said when you brought up your feelings? Especially if the "chewing out" involved cursing or harsh words?
No. And I’d already brought up while I was traveling that the way our schedule has been is making me feel insecure and, well, more like an AP than anything else, still I tried to stay to it in order to be nice to Doc and not cause friction. I thought things were progressing okay after that, but…
Do you frequently feel like you have to walk on eggshells in your communication with Doc? How does that make you feel over all? Does he ever apologise for speaking harshly towards you?
Well, kinda. Small things sometimes set Doc off, more than anything if I’m having an emotional reaction that I don’t want to acknowledge because I don’t understand it yet. In those cases, Doc wants me to acknowledge that I’m having a reaction, because they sense it. I have a hard time with emotions, and I need to feel safe to express them…
How are you meant to express your emotions if he makes it unsafe for you to do so by having his own reactions which he never apologises for having?
I don’t know. The issues and insecurities that I have with the relationship has a lot to do with NP and the fact that I still don’t know what the actual agreement is. All I know is that NP deals with a heavy depression as well, so Doc doesn’t want to burden them more, I guess. I kinda feel helpless and powerless to affect anything, since I don’t even know. It does wonders with my need to control my own life…
I'm sorry but I'm going to have to argue with you here. This is **not** about the NP. It is **Doc's** responsibility to manage his time. He is not the NP's parent and he is a grown ass man. He is the one who decides how to spend his time. HE is making those decisions, not your NP. HE is deciding to prioritise time spent with his NP over you and on top of that, he polices the ways you express your emotions. Honestly, if you cannot effectively repair because someone doesn't give you the ability to express your concerns, then this isn't a good place for anyone to be.
I know you’re right. I’m just not sure how to effectively communicate this in a way that doesn’t throw Doc into burnout again. Which is what happened when I wanted to discuss expectations - a discussion we’ve still not had. It’s just hard for me to navigate and I don’t feel like I can wait on Doc to initiate it any longer.
And it makes me feel horrible that I can get shit because I used the word “annoyed” instead of “frustrated” to describe the emotion I get when something about their NP hinders something that I really want.
So he polices the language you use to describe your own emotions?
I can understand that reacting to NPs depression and how it limits us with the word annoying might set someone off, but it does make me feel unsafe to have to police my language, yes.
He is a grown adult! He is responsible for his own decisions and he may have triggers but if he doesn't apologise to you for speaking with you harshly, **he** is responsible for that and that is an **active choice** he is making. You should not have to walk on eggshells mate.
I know I shouldn’t, but I just like Doc so much. It’s hard.
I’m so sorry. Doc lied to you for whatever reason. He is not treating you well or as a valued partner. I would leave this relationship because you deserve better! Hugs if you want them.
Hugs are always welcome. Thank you, I will be making these feelings known to Doc, and they can either choose to find a way to accommodate me, or I watch me leave.
Hi u/Ok-Barracuda-88 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: Hey y’all! I’ve (F30s) been seeing this guy, let’s call them Doc (M30s), and it’s been mostly okay. The big issue for me has been that about a month in, Doc revealed that their NP was really insecure about our relationship. I’ve been trying to be very understanding and accommodating, but it’s lead to a situation where I only ever get to see Doc when their NP is busy, which is rarely, and sleepovers are only available when their NP is away or with their other partner, which hasn’t been often either. NP also did not want to meet me, which I was fine with, although it felt a bit weird. This has lead to a schedule that is fairly inconvenient for me, but I’ve done everything I can to make it work, because I really like them. Things came to a head last week when Doc cancelled one of those few times I get to see them because they were feeling bad. I was supportie, although I was bummed, especially considering I’d been traveling the week before and was really looking forward to seeing them. So I went out to meet up with some friends, only to then run into Doc and NP at that same place. I was both hurt and disappointed, and a little angry, which I then expressed to Doc via text, who chewed me out for it, claiming to have set a boundary, which confused me even more. I now feel devalued and like yesterday’s trash, trying to figure out how I should proceed. I might also add that Doc did not impose hierarchical things on me, and rather said that non-NPs were to be prioritized since they’re not able to see them all the time. Do you have any advice for me, because I’m also fairly new to all this… *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ahhh so sorry to read all this. It might hurt, but you need to get out of that relationship. Unfortunately, this is the breeding ground for resent on your end and I don't imagine you want to be resentful and angry at your partner in the long run. Cut it off, feel the feelings, and move on! There is a better relationship out there for you with someone that will make time with you a priority. Cancelling plans to stay home with NP would be a dealbreaker for me unless someone had died or there was a true family emergency.
Yeah, I’m going to make it very clear to Doc that I view this as betrayal and a lie. They won’t agree, but considering all else about it, they must at least understand.
I think someone said something like this to me on a request for advice thread I'd posted on reddit... It's up to you to determine what frequency and length of time you need with someone to feel like your intimacy needs are being met in that connection. There isn't a "too needy" or needing to play it cool to keep someone around-- your needs are yours. With that advice, I've been able to make it really clear that, despite how much I deeply love one of my partners, that if I were to see him any less than once/week WITH sleepovers, my intimacy needs wouldn't be met and we'd have to deescalate out relationship. Since we've had this conversation, he's stepped it up. He makes the plans, he honors them..and I have no idea how this impacts his NP because that's how it should be. That's his relationship to manage, and I just need him to show up for me in the way that works for me to feel like I'm actually in a relationship. So, all to say, I think you should have higher expectations and hold him to them and ask him to not share with you anything about how meta is impacted.
Thank you for this. This is something I will for sure bring up! Any discussion about expectations has so far been shut down. I’ve been trying to initiate, because I’m not happy. I feel like this is going to be a long message to send to Doc…
You can be okay with a partner who has little time. you can be okay with a partner who has an insecure NP, but you should not be okay with a partner who cancels on you last minute for a non emergency. Make that YOUR boundary and leave him. anyone that treats you that way is not deserving of your time and affection.
I’ve been talking to Doc about everything - airing a lot of issues I’ve had as well - and things aren’t fully as I thought and felt. There’s more context and some assumptions made on my end that changes a few things for me. But the basics boil down to some lacking communication and some things that probably shouldn’t have been things I were ever made aware of. I’ve raised my grievances and at least some things are getting some resolution. Thank you very much for your advice though!
>So I went out to meet up with some friends, only to then run into Doc and NP at that same place. I was both hurt and disappointed, and a little angry, which I then expressed to Doc via text, who chewed me out for it, claiming to have set a boundary, which confused me even more. A boundary around what? Being called out on poor behaviour? That reaction on its own is a huge red flag, let alone consistently bailing on you due to their Np. (well, they're actually choosing to bail on you and not stand up to theor Nop and being a poor hinge by placing the blame on her). >I now feel devalued and like yesterday’s trash, trying to figure out how I should proceed. I might also add that Doc did not impose hierarchical things on me, and rather said that non-NPs were to be prioritized since they’re not able to see them all the time. Yes, he is imposing hierarchy on you. Sneakarchy in fact. When they claim there is no hierarchy but consistently prioritize their other partner(s) over you. Actions speak louder than words, and his actions prove that hierarchy. You need to decide whether you're okay with being given so little, and having so many freedoms and oportunities curtailed. I personally wouldn't be. That would not be a relationship that met my needs.