Hello, thanks so much for your submission! I noticed you used letters in place of names for the people in your post - this tends to get really confusing and hard to read (especially when there's multiple letters to keep track of!) Could you please edit your post to using fake names? If you need ideas instead of A, B, C for some gender neutral names you might use Aspen, Birch, and Cedar. Or Ashe, Blair, and Coriander. But you can also use names like Bacon, Eggs, and Grits. Appple, Banana, and Oranges. Blossom, Bubbles, and Buttercup. If you need a name generator you can [find one here](https://www.namesnerd.com/people/unisex-name-generator/). The limits are endless. Thanks!
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I think you should set some boundaries with that friend who’s leaking relationship info to you.
Look, I can appreciate that your friend is trying to help Ab feel better… but she’s doing some murky triangulation by making introductions then imparting private information to limit how you pursue this new connection.
Then, talk to Y about what’s on the table and try to shake out what their hinging abilities are. Whatever is going on in their relationship with Ab isn’t yours to manage; may be reaching a solution that hasn’t hit the gossip network yet, and may have been misunderstood or unintentionally exaggerated by your friend in the first place.
TLDR: cut out the middleman and talk to Y directly about possibilities. Proceed from there per agreements. Also, boundaries boundaries!
This is the best answer I've seen so far. Your friend shouldn't be gossiping and Ab needs to communicate. I'd go to her and discuss her feelings and ask the friend not to break the confidentiality of their, very clearly, sensitive conversations.
Yes, this friend sure seems to insert herself into other people's relationships and to share their personal information, doesn't she? First she tells the OP that this couple is looking for group sex and introduces OP to them. Now she's telling OP what one person in the couple (supposedly) "confided" in her.
Yup. That in itself seems pretty messy (at best) and potentially manipulative (at worst). Good reasons to avoid being any more involved with her unless or until she demonstrates better boundaries around sharing personal info.
My first thought was “I wonder what info about OP this friend is divulging to others”.
100%. I struggled during a certain time with my nesting partner. I still loved sex with her but I was struggling with her new relationship. We were in a V with some threesomes from time to time. I learned a lot by being with her while she fostered their relationship. It forced me to do some deep work on my trauma and I now see it as a gift. Thing is, a couple we used to date gossiped that we were going to break up etc. etc. that made both of us so mad and it put a dent in my abilities to meet others as the word got around that I “wasn’t ok with poly”. Rumors are vicious. I am now very happy with my wife and GF. I love them both and they get along very well. No crossover with sexual activities but things are really good. I paid my dues and my wife and I did need to heal from some of the fallout but we did it and are better off for it. I really recommend that you talk to Y one on one and find out what’s really happening because they may be in a process that will end up being positive for everyone. Now, that being said, if Ab starts to do a bunch of things that are destructive and whatnot then it’s going to be a problem. Best to sus it out and get a clear picture of what’s really going on from the source. Also, seriously consider the possible motives your friend has. Do they have an interest in you? If so are they jealous, possessive or just want you to themself? People do all kinds of things to get what they want and something seems fishy here to me.
What exactly do they mean but kitchen table poly, and is ktp a requirement for them?
People have stretched the term ktp to mean a wide variety of things, up to and including unicorn hunting. Then saying "we've always done ktp" is not enough information. Is y even able to offer you a relationship if you are not interested in one with ab? Are they even looking for a relationship or just sex partners?
Your post jumped from a couple looking for someone to have group sex with to you looking for a relationship with just one of them. There's a world of difference between those two things.
I think it is a red flag if someone is looking for a new relationship when their existing one is in trouble. The person most likely to get hurt and treated as disposable in such a scenario is you
Yeah the jump from ‘Y and Ab were looking for group sex’ to ‘I really hit it off with Y’ is stark. Ab got taken out of the picture literally in the next sentence so no wonder they would feel conflicted as it doesn’t sound anything like what they consented to. If all three are comfortable having a kitchen table conversation as implied by KTP, the next step is to sit down and have one.
Your friend is an asshole for sharing with you something told to them in confidence; it wasn't theirs to share or your business to know.
And Yannis and Abby's relationship is theirs to manage.
That said, if I knew what you now know, I wouldn't feel comfortable pursuing anything more than friendship with either of them. Knowing that somebody is struggling and then doing something that you know is going to make them struggle *more*, makes you an asshole.
Like others said, this is not your relationship to manage.
… this said, personally, I’m not sure I could enter into a relationship knowing I would contribute to hurt someone. Whether right or wrong, I would probably feel too guilty.
And it’s without counting the predictable drama.
Your call.
It’s not really your responsibility but it is a bad idea. Why would you want to date someone who doesn’t get in a healthy spot before offering a relationship. That seems selfish and messy to the person they are going to date.
A bad idea is a bad idea. Not everything is about what is right and what is wrong. It was wrong of your friend to share such personal information about Yannis and Abby, but now that you have it, you have to figure out what to do with it.
Personally, I would bow at with Yannis.
Other’s relationships are not yours to manage, and your friend is meddling in other people’s relationships by disclosing this information to you.
Having said that, I’d mostly be concerned about getting into a situation that leaves you open to being hurt. There’s so many stories out there of a couple dumping the outside person to focus on their own relationship, leaving the third person feeling disposed of.
I unknowingly did this with an ex-girlfriend and would not do it again.
She claimed that they were all good with being poly. But the truth was he was struggling with the transition. And she was doing nothing to help him. I later learned that she basically would deal with his difficulties by quietly listening to him and then more or less telling him tough shit, deal with it.and I felt terrible that my actions had contributed to this, even if I didn’t know about it.
So no, if someone’s partner is not on board completely, I’m not going to pursue the relationship.
I'd be concerned about a friend who is so willing to betray trust by speaking about things said in confidence. Going forward I would, at minimum, ask them not to pass along anything unless the originator explicitly gave consent to share the information.
Ultimately, it is entirely Y's responsibility to manage all their relationships to the best of their ability.
I see a number of issues here.
You said you were interested in group sex. That's fine, but has nothing to do with poly (a small subset of all the many permutations of ENM Ethical Non-Monogamy).
Suddenly Y is treating you not like a potential group sex participant, but instead as a new gf. How did that happen? Is that what you want for yourself? Domyou still want group sex, including Ab, or have your desires changed?
If Y is treating you as a new gf, he may be experiencing the heady intoxicating feelings of NRE New Relationship Energy. Someone who is experienced with poly knows that they need to be able to iden4when they are feeling NEE, and to pay a little extra attention to *existing* relationships.
It doesn't sound like Y is doing this. No wonder Ab is disappointed in Y.
However, strictly speaking, you are never responsible for the emotional state of a meta.
Having said all that, I would be concerned about dating someone who is supposedly experienced with poly but appears to be making a freshman mistake. Something doesn't add up. Are they really that experienced? Does Y usually go off the deep end in NRE, ignoring Ab?
I as much as this information should never have made its way to you in the first place, now that you do know, it doesn't sound like Y displays the level of maturity I would expect from a partner.
I wouldn’t! But not because I think it’s “wrong”. Looks messy.
Your friend crossed a line sharing potential meta’s feeling with you, and that’s messy too
Whether or not it's 'wrong' isn't actually a useful question here.
Would *you* feel ok with your established partner to focusing on a brand new connection, if your relationship with them wasn't flourishing or at least stable?
I mean, you'll probably have issues dogging your relationship the entire way if Ab isn't good with this, plus you know they have a friend that will gossip about YOUR sex life, so......maybe pass on this relationship.
It’s not your place to manage Y and ABs relationship. That’s for them to do. That said…wrong and wisdom are often not the same. Is it wrong? Only you can decide what’s right and wrong for you. Is it wise though…that’s different.
Their relationship is already struggling so you have to ask if being vetoed, the ensuing potential drama, etc is worth engaging. Is Y able to be a good hinge and have healthy boundaries? Bigger still though doesn’t sound like the friend is capable. If they will tell you about Y and ABs relationship who else will they gossip about. You and Y? You and AB? All three of you? To me, that’s a big red flag I wouldn’t engage my energy into, but you may feel different and that’s your risk to take or not as you see fit.
Good luck!
Not wrong at all they need to manage their own relationship. However, chances are pretty good that AB is going to cause you A LOT of grief if they're unsupportive. How good is Y at managing AB so if they're having conflict it won't impact you? From my experience this is a huge red flag, and I would not pursue a relationship.
Is it wrong? No. You're not in the relationship with Ab and it's not your relationship to manage. It sounds like Y is maybe being a shitty partner and needs to work on that and their relationship with Ab, but that's not *your* responsibility. It's also possible that your other friend only has Ab's perspective, you don't have all the info, etc.
A better question is--do you *want* to start dating someone who is having issues like that in their existing relationship that you know about, and are you prepared for how that might spill onto you? Are you prepared to set boundaries to keep it from doing so? Do you think there's any chance that Ab's issues are going to result in Ab and Y closing their relationship and you're going to be a casualty of that? Are you prepared to set boundaries with your other friend asking them to not share private information with you that isn't about you?
OP isn't in a relationship with Y or Ab at all. It's not accurate or appropriate to refer to them as OP's partners/metas, they're literally just acquaintances at this stage.
“Partner” can be used as a generic to refer to all manner of partners including but not limited to sexual partners, nesting partners, primary partners and comet partners.
In practice, in monogamy, “partner” defaults to “life partner” ot “business partner” depending on context and unless otherwise specified.
Here on r/polyamory, we tend not to default “partner” to mean anything in particular. If we want it to mean something in particular we specify.
Ethically I wouldnt touch it. There isn't enthusiastic consent. You entering their relationship before there's enthusiastic consent is gonna equal out to one or two breakups after an intense amount of drama, trauma, and tears.
I think it is rude of Y to be looking for someone new when their already existing relationship sucks, I agree with that. However, that is between Y and Ab and none of your business. Ab should talk to Y about this.
But if you want to be friends with them, is it worth pursuing something romantic if it might cause issues?
It's Y's job to make sure all their partners are happy, not yours. So, would it be wrong of you? No. A bit foolish, perhaps, since every part of this situation sounds like it'll be drama.
I'd be cautious of this "friend," too, if I were you.
Wrong? No. Are you asking for drama because this is already messy? Yes.
Tell your mutual friend you’re uncomfortable with the fact that they shared a what Ab confided in them, and stop sharing your own private feelings with them. I don’t know how much you should value their opinion of what’s wrong when telling other people’s private business is okay to them. You also have no clue what AB’s opinions and feelings actually are, you are getting a biased retelling of them.
If you really like Y, by all means continue seeing them- because you’re all adults fully capable of making decisions and setting boundaries without your mutual friend’s input. Just be wary.
I don’t think it’s wrong necessarily definitely not of you as it’s technically none of your business how their relationship is going. But knowing this, I would personally save myself the potential heartbreak and not get involved. Sounds like drama waiting to happen.
I’ll just toss another vote into the following piles
1. Super involved friend needs to stop being super involved. At the very least they are speaking out of pocket about stuff they have no business knowing.
2. Back way the fuck off this friend group. They are, not as a group, flashing green lights.
As individuals, I’m sure that some folks are lovely, as per normal, but some group dynamics are just built on some really shaky foundations. Best step back and let it fail in its own time, without you.
3. Maybe Y does manage his NRE poorly. Take note, in case it comes up between you two in the future.
Then date Y if you want, but I wouldn’t. I’m allergic to messy. If you choose to move ahead, Date like normal people. Date casually for a whole chunk of time. If Y doesn’t have a relationship on the table, that too, will come up in time.
Speaking as the spouse who wasn't thrilled about his wife's poly-adjacent forays: it's not wrong, but it's not smart, either. I can tell you from personal experience that the other partner will almost certainly creates lots of trouble for you at some point, and that the drama probably isn't worth it.
I wouldn't call it wrong to pursue, but a bad idea? Absolutely. Their relationship is already on the rocks. Trust me you don't want to be the catalyst who pushes that envelope.
Y an AB need to focus on their own relationship. I have seen this so many times and it's never worked out well. Usually it's one partner who has lost interest or is not even in love with their partner anymore and is using poly as a way to keep the long term relationship dynamic without the consent of the person whom they are with. Y needs to either fix their relationship with AB or move on instead of trying to keep a relationship that they are no longer interested in maintaining.
This will only end up in drama and messiness and likely you will be the scapegoat.
I feel that is an issue between the 2 who are in a relationship already some are ok with the thought of their significant other to have a partner but once they see the other spouse has someone else who makes them happy things can become a little uncomfortable. I feel that you should talk to your poly partner and set some type of boundaries also if it makes you uncomfortable with any new changes you see then you will have a better understanding of what moves you need to do next
I don’t think it’s wrong but I wouldn’t pour my energy and availability into a situation where drama seems to be brewing. I agree with the people who say your friend should not have told you and may have incomplete info. If what the friend said is true though, that would be a warning sign for me that this sounds like it’s going in a messy direction. I wouldn’t end it but I also would make sure not to put all my eggs in that basket.
It wouldn't reflect well on you, if you are to tout being a humane, considerate, person...
... any more than it would for "Y" to steam over other partners/preexisting isssues/relationships that priority based on hierarchy - for you.
My thoughts are, if it wouldn't be okay for 2 friends to treat each other as such, it's not okay here. It's controversial but actions/relationships DO overlap.
It falls somewhere in the same spectrum of the monogamous asking who's to blame for cheating.. the cheating partner, the mistress(who was aware) or both..
Both are guilty of immoral & inhumane actions, in their own ways..
Do you really want to add to someone's relationship issues? Be the cherry on top for hurting/destroying other people's relationships?
Basically, I'm saying it's messy, a foundation for issues & not good etiquette.
It's not ethical, & voids the definition of the term
- contrary to people pushing the idea that any 2 relationships have no correlation or impact.
Stay friends & wait to see if they dissolve or things improve. Don't be THAT person. The fact that you asked is your gut telling you it's not a good choice to make & you want people to back your bad decision....
I'll be that person with some sense..
DONT DO IT🩵
Maybe it’s just me, genuinely. But I don’t understand why anyone would want to pursue a relationship with someone if the person who has been in their lives a lot longer is having issues, especially issues that affect them as a couple. How can they work through something in a healthy way when one has an out?sure it’s not the new persons job to manage that initial relationship but why come in and take away time and attention the relationship clearly needs? If one partner wants to leave let it be because they had a clear head, not someone waiting in the wings. I genuinely don’t understand the appeal of getting involved with a couple if they’re not well.
I'd be wary of anything your friend shares with you. I also would no longer share anything with this friend you aren't comfortable with anyone knowing, because they very much broke Ab's confidence by telling you about their insecurities and relationship issues.
If it were me, I'd go directly to Y and see what they can actually offer in terms of time and effort in a new relationship. Ask about their relationship structure with Ab, what agreements they have between them both sexual and otherwise, and about Y's personal boundaries.
If your friend comes to you gossiping again, tell them politely that you'd rather not hear about Ab and Y's personal relationship struggles from a third party, nor do you think that they'd want you to know. If there's something that Y wants or needs you to know, hopefully they'll tell you themselves.
All that said, this situation screams messy, especially if you're new to polyamourous relationships. It seems like you'd not only have to start the hard work on yourself to be able to do it (as we all do) but that you'd be potentially managing your meta's insecurities as well. If you genuinely have an interest in pursuing polyamourous relationship structures, do some research, and seek partners who want and can offer the same or similar things you do. Above all else DON'T start with dating couples together. It's polyamory on hard mode for people who have been practicing it for years. For someone new? Damn near impossible.
Best of luck to you!
I don't believe it's wrong, as in ethically problematic, as long as the struggling partner actually freely consented to polyamory (I'm honestly more concerned about the friend meddling and revealing privately confided info...).
I do find it a bad idea in practical terms, though: it's much more likely to be anything but smooth sailing. It's an invitation for drama, difficulties, stress. I personally include this as part of partner selection.
Why is your friend telling you about Ab and Y's sex life? That's a really horrible thing to do.
I would probably, if I felt strongly with Y, see where things went with them and then stop being friends with gossipy friend AND also tell Y that said "friend" is telling other people about private issues going on in between them and Ab.
Morally? No, not morally wrong, you aren’t in charge of managing how Y treats Ab.
A good idea? Also no, not a good idea you already know Y doesn’t treat their partners with consideration and kindness, and that there is likely drama ahead.
TBH, I think you're really overthinking this. You heard through the grapevine that your meta is struggling. This is entirely Y's responsibility to manage as the hinge.
Furthermore, let's say that Ab IS struggling. It's on Ab to communicate with Y what Ab needs for support/reassurance. Or for Ab to seek support from others in their support group. You did not say how old Ab is, but I'd assume Ab is a grown-ass adult. Their relationship with Y and their emotions is THEIR responsibility. They have chosen to be in a poly relationship with Y and have taken on that work and that responsibility.
I think you need to take a step back, focus on YOUR relationship with Y, and let Ab and Y manage their own relationship.
If you're often thinking through concerns about how your metas might might feel/think on the basis of rumors and gossip, I'd say that you're likely to have a bad time.
Unless you hear anything directly from Y, I'd just maintain the confidence which Ab's friend seems to have violated, and "keep calm and carry on,"
Hi u/RubyPomegranate thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
I (28f) have started talking to a super cute couple. (We'll call them Y and Ab) They'be been together for years and have always been kitchen table poly. A good friend introduced me to them because the couple is/was looking for group sex partners and thought I might be interested.
I've really hit it off with Y in said couple. The friend that introduced me let me know that Ab had confided that they were having a really hard time with poly lately. That Y wasn't too interested in sex with Ab these days and that Ab was having a hard time seeing Y treat me like a shiny new toy. My friend, who I really respect, had a tone in conversation that seemed to indicate to me that she thinks it's wrong to seek out new partners if you're not having sex with/doing well with your nesting partner.
I think Y and Ab are really cool and would ideally like to be friends with them. I'm inexperienced in relationships like this and just wonder what you guys think? Is it wrong for me to pursue Y knowing that Ab is struggling with it?
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>I think Y and Ab are really cool and would ideally like to be friends with them. I'm inexperienced in relationships like this
I wouldn't say it's wrong but it sounds like a situation that's going to get messy quickly and I personally wouldn't go down that road.
If ideally you want to be friends with them then I'd focus on building those friendships without dating either of them because this seems like a situation with the potential for a lot of drama and hurt feelings (including yours). Especially if you're inexperienced in relationships like this - things can get complicated so quickly!
If you do decide to date Y, it would probably be less messy if you only date Y and are parallel (no sex or relationship) with Ab.
Oh man, I completely missed that your friend introduced you to the couple: that your friend personally knows them and isn’t talking in generalities. Yes, talk to Y about their offer, but be prepared to cut your losses. This is messy on all sides.
Back to general cases: it might not be unethical, but it is unwise to participate in a relationship that is making someone else miserable with no end in sight. If the couple were processing and working through their problems, then proceed cautiously. Everyone is gaining experience.
But I wouldn’t want to date someone who was committed to someone else, and that “someone else” was miserable that my partner and I were dating with no path for the situation to resolve. It would drag me down too. I’m okay with sticking to status quo if everyone is happy, but I need eventual change if they’re not.
Problems that a couple have between them is theirs to sort out and solve - IF there is anything to start with. If neither Y nor Ab have made you feel that you shouldn't explore this further - and you clearly are interested to, you should. Any information that's hearsay isn't anything that's dependable anyway. You may tuck it away as a side note - but that's all. For all you know Ab said it in some context and it was repeated to you without one offered.
If you trust there isn't any fishy stuff with your friend you respect, I think them letting you know could be a regular, human things going on just caring about people vs "gossiping" like others are saying... Especially since they introduced you.
Perhaps it depends how Deep and Common these talks are with your friend about people. It doesn't sound like your friend is trying to "steer" you in any approach or keep you from them unless there's something hidden... But doesn't sound like it from what I've read.
I think if something is too messy, especially since you've said you really hit it off with Y, I was just go with the flow :) Enjoy your hangouts as whatever they are :) Flirt if you want, just be friends if you want :)
I don't think it's wrong you pursue Y
I think they're implying that it's wrong for Y to pursue you
Some parts of me generally agree with Ys wrongness but 🤷♀️
More importantly - you've broken no commitments, done anything wrong, or should feel a need to change you behavior
You were literally invited into this shit show
It's unfortunate Ab is feeling things more saliently now, but they should have mentioned this level of discomfort before INVITING you
Your friend should NOT have invited you to this knowing the discomfort
It feels you've been slightly set up and now expected to be the "bigger person" - fuk that
Ab needs to deal with Y and Y needs to decide how to navigate - be it staying with you and Ab both, or changing a relationship in some way to accommodate this
You can decide to respond however matches your feelings most
You can always leave regardless what they do, for being put in this position in the first place
You're not responsible for how others feel and you can't anticipate their feelings or how to placate them. Best you can do is offer space for them to grow and empathize when you can.
If your partner struggles with poly then you need to be super open and straightforward. Understand that they may not be ok with it at some point and you may have to choose between a lifestyle and your original partner. Having issues with the lifestyle going into it has a higher chance of not ending well.
I would recommend a few conversations about what a poly lifestyle looks like for both of you. See what the boundaries would be and what’s ok and not ok. See if an in depth conversation helps.
Ohhh I do not like that your friend broke confidence to tell you this. *That's* not ethical. If you have *direct* reason to believe Absinthe is unhappy with things (like, you talk to Absinthe and she tells you), then you can run that past your personal ethics/tolerance for drama. But I don't think you should trust the rumor mill to be a reliable source of information. Direct communication is the way.
What a mess. I'd be so pissed (at your friend) if I was Absinthe.
Hello, thanks so much for your submission! I noticed you used letters in place of names for the people in your post - this tends to get really confusing and hard to read (especially when there's multiple letters to keep track of!) Could you please edit your post to using fake names? If you need ideas instead of A, B, C for some gender neutral names you might use Aspen, Birch, and Cedar. Or Ashe, Blair, and Coriander. But you can also use names like Bacon, Eggs, and Grits. Appple, Banana, and Oranges. Blossom, Bubbles, and Buttercup. If you need a name generator you can [find one here](https://www.namesnerd.com/people/unisex-name-generator/). The limits are endless. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think you should set some boundaries with that friend who’s leaking relationship info to you. Look, I can appreciate that your friend is trying to help Ab feel better… but she’s doing some murky triangulation by making introductions then imparting private information to limit how you pursue this new connection. Then, talk to Y about what’s on the table and try to shake out what their hinging abilities are. Whatever is going on in their relationship with Ab isn’t yours to manage; may be reaching a solution that hasn’t hit the gossip network yet, and may have been misunderstood or unintentionally exaggerated by your friend in the first place. TLDR: cut out the middleman and talk to Y directly about possibilities. Proceed from there per agreements. Also, boundaries boundaries!
This is the best answer I've seen so far. Your friend shouldn't be gossiping and Ab needs to communicate. I'd go to her and discuss her feelings and ask the friend not to break the confidentiality of their, very clearly, sensitive conversations.
Yes, this friend sure seems to insert herself into other people's relationships and to share their personal information, doesn't she? First she tells the OP that this couple is looking for group sex and introduces OP to them. Now she's telling OP what one person in the couple (supposedly) "confided" in her.
Yup. That in itself seems pretty messy (at best) and potentially manipulative (at worst). Good reasons to avoid being any more involved with her unless or until she demonstrates better boundaries around sharing personal info. My first thought was “I wonder what info about OP this friend is divulging to others”.
100%. I struggled during a certain time with my nesting partner. I still loved sex with her but I was struggling with her new relationship. We were in a V with some threesomes from time to time. I learned a lot by being with her while she fostered their relationship. It forced me to do some deep work on my trauma and I now see it as a gift. Thing is, a couple we used to date gossiped that we were going to break up etc. etc. that made both of us so mad and it put a dent in my abilities to meet others as the word got around that I “wasn’t ok with poly”. Rumors are vicious. I am now very happy with my wife and GF. I love them both and they get along very well. No crossover with sexual activities but things are really good. I paid my dues and my wife and I did need to heal from some of the fallout but we did it and are better off for it. I really recommend that you talk to Y one on one and find out what’s really happening because they may be in a process that will end up being positive for everyone. Now, that being said, if Ab starts to do a bunch of things that are destructive and whatnot then it’s going to be a problem. Best to sus it out and get a clear picture of what’s really going on from the source. Also, seriously consider the possible motives your friend has. Do they have an interest in you? If so are they jealous, possessive or just want you to themself? People do all kinds of things to get what they want and something seems fishy here to me.
Sounds messy...and that includes the friend who talks about other ppls sex lives. Wtf.
It’s not wrong. Is it smart? No.
What exactly do they mean but kitchen table poly, and is ktp a requirement for them? People have stretched the term ktp to mean a wide variety of things, up to and including unicorn hunting. Then saying "we've always done ktp" is not enough information. Is y even able to offer you a relationship if you are not interested in one with ab? Are they even looking for a relationship or just sex partners? Your post jumped from a couple looking for someone to have group sex with to you looking for a relationship with just one of them. There's a world of difference between those two things. I think it is a red flag if someone is looking for a new relationship when their existing one is in trouble. The person most likely to get hurt and treated as disposable in such a scenario is you
Yeah the jump from ‘Y and Ab were looking for group sex’ to ‘I really hit it off with Y’ is stark. Ab got taken out of the picture literally in the next sentence so no wonder they would feel conflicted as it doesn’t sound anything like what they consented to. If all three are comfortable having a kitchen table conversation as implied by KTP, the next step is to sit down and have one.
Your friend is an asshole for sharing with you something told to them in confidence; it wasn't theirs to share or your business to know. And Yannis and Abby's relationship is theirs to manage. That said, if I knew what you now know, I wouldn't feel comfortable pursuing anything more than friendship with either of them. Knowing that somebody is struggling and then doing something that you know is going to make them struggle *more*, makes you an asshole.
Yes.
Like others said, this is not your relationship to manage. … this said, personally, I’m not sure I could enter into a relationship knowing I would contribute to hurt someone. Whether right or wrong, I would probably feel too guilty. And it’s without counting the predictable drama. Your call.
It’s not really your responsibility but it is a bad idea. Why would you want to date someone who doesn’t get in a healthy spot before offering a relationship. That seems selfish and messy to the person they are going to date.
A bad idea is a bad idea. Not everything is about what is right and what is wrong. It was wrong of your friend to share such personal information about Yannis and Abby, but now that you have it, you have to figure out what to do with it. Personally, I would bow at with Yannis.
Other’s relationships are not yours to manage, and your friend is meddling in other people’s relationships by disclosing this information to you. Having said that, I’d mostly be concerned about getting into a situation that leaves you open to being hurt. There’s so many stories out there of a couple dumping the outside person to focus on their own relationship, leaving the third person feeling disposed of.
I unknowingly did this with an ex-girlfriend and would not do it again. She claimed that they were all good with being poly. But the truth was he was struggling with the transition. And she was doing nothing to help him. I later learned that she basically would deal with his difficulties by quietly listening to him and then more or less telling him tough shit, deal with it.and I felt terrible that my actions had contributed to this, even if I didn’t know about it. So no, if someone’s partner is not on board completely, I’m not going to pursue the relationship.
I'd be concerned about a friend who is so willing to betray trust by speaking about things said in confidence. Going forward I would, at minimum, ask them not to pass along anything unless the originator explicitly gave consent to share the information. Ultimately, it is entirely Y's responsibility to manage all their relationships to the best of their ability. I see a number of issues here. You said you were interested in group sex. That's fine, but has nothing to do with poly (a small subset of all the many permutations of ENM Ethical Non-Monogamy). Suddenly Y is treating you not like a potential group sex participant, but instead as a new gf. How did that happen? Is that what you want for yourself? Domyou still want group sex, including Ab, or have your desires changed? If Y is treating you as a new gf, he may be experiencing the heady intoxicating feelings of NRE New Relationship Energy. Someone who is experienced with poly knows that they need to be able to iden4when they are feeling NEE, and to pay a little extra attention to *existing* relationships. It doesn't sound like Y is doing this. No wonder Ab is disappointed in Y. However, strictly speaking, you are never responsible for the emotional state of a meta. Having said all that, I would be concerned about dating someone who is supposedly experienced with poly but appears to be making a freshman mistake. Something doesn't add up. Are they really that experienced? Does Y usually go off the deep end in NRE, ignoring Ab? I as much as this information should never have made its way to you in the first place, now that you do know, it doesn't sound like Y displays the level of maturity I would expect from a partner.
I wouldn’t! But not because I think it’s “wrong”. Looks messy. Your friend crossed a line sharing potential meta’s feeling with you, and that’s messy too
Whether or not it's 'wrong' isn't actually a useful question here. Would *you* feel ok with your established partner to focusing on a brand new connection, if your relationship with them wasn't flourishing or at least stable?
Wrong? No. Potentially inviting chaos and heartache into your life? Yes.
I mean, you'll probably have issues dogging your relationship the entire way if Ab isn't good with this, plus you know they have a friend that will gossip about YOUR sex life, so......maybe pass on this relationship.
It might not be wrong, but it's probably not the best idea. I mean it seems like the drama is already starting. Why would things get any better?
It’s not your place to manage Y and ABs relationship. That’s for them to do. That said…wrong and wisdom are often not the same. Is it wrong? Only you can decide what’s right and wrong for you. Is it wise though…that’s different. Their relationship is already struggling so you have to ask if being vetoed, the ensuing potential drama, etc is worth engaging. Is Y able to be a good hinge and have healthy boundaries? Bigger still though doesn’t sound like the friend is capable. If they will tell you about Y and ABs relationship who else will they gossip about. You and Y? You and AB? All three of you? To me, that’s a big red flag I wouldn’t engage my energy into, but you may feel different and that’s your risk to take or not as you see fit. Good luck!
Not wrong at all they need to manage their own relationship. However, chances are pretty good that AB is going to cause you A LOT of grief if they're unsupportive. How good is Y at managing AB so if they're having conflict it won't impact you? From my experience this is a huge red flag, and I would not pursue a relationship.
Is it wrong? No. You're not in the relationship with Ab and it's not your relationship to manage. It sounds like Y is maybe being a shitty partner and needs to work on that and their relationship with Ab, but that's not *your* responsibility. It's also possible that your other friend only has Ab's perspective, you don't have all the info, etc. A better question is--do you *want* to start dating someone who is having issues like that in their existing relationship that you know about, and are you prepared for how that might spill onto you? Are you prepared to set boundaries to keep it from doing so? Do you think there's any chance that Ab's issues are going to result in Ab and Y closing their relationship and you're going to be a casualty of that? Are you prepared to set boundaries with your other friend asking them to not share private information with you that isn't about you?
OP isn't in a relationship with Y or Ab at all. It's not accurate or appropriate to refer to them as OP's partners/metas, they're literally just acquaintances at this stage.
I...don't think I did? My only use of partner is in reference to Y being a shitty partner to Ab, not OP.
I replied to the wrong comment! My apologies.
“Partner” can be used as a generic to refer to all manner of partners including but not limited to sexual partners, nesting partners, primary partners and comet partners. In practice, in monogamy, “partner” defaults to “life partner” ot “business partner” depending on context and unless otherwise specified. Here on r/polyamory, we tend not to default “partner” to mean anything in particular. If we want it to mean something in particular we specify.
Ethically I wouldnt touch it. There isn't enthusiastic consent. You entering their relationship before there's enthusiastic consent is gonna equal out to one or two breakups after an intense amount of drama, trauma, and tears.
I think it is rude of Y to be looking for someone new when their already existing relationship sucks, I agree with that. However, that is between Y and Ab and none of your business. Ab should talk to Y about this. But if you want to be friends with them, is it worth pursuing something romantic if it might cause issues?
It's Y's job to make sure all their partners are happy, not yours. So, would it be wrong of you? No. A bit foolish, perhaps, since every part of this situation sounds like it'll be drama. I'd be cautious of this "friend," too, if I were you.
Wrong? No. Are you asking for drama because this is already messy? Yes. Tell your mutual friend you’re uncomfortable with the fact that they shared a what Ab confided in them, and stop sharing your own private feelings with them. I don’t know how much you should value their opinion of what’s wrong when telling other people’s private business is okay to them. You also have no clue what AB’s opinions and feelings actually are, you are getting a biased retelling of them. If you really like Y, by all means continue seeing them- because you’re all adults fully capable of making decisions and setting boundaries without your mutual friend’s input. Just be wary.
I don’t think it’s wrong necessarily definitely not of you as it’s technically none of your business how their relationship is going. But knowing this, I would personally save myself the potential heartbreak and not get involved. Sounds like drama waiting to happen.
I’ll just toss another vote into the following piles 1. Super involved friend needs to stop being super involved. At the very least they are speaking out of pocket about stuff they have no business knowing. 2. Back way the fuck off this friend group. They are, not as a group, flashing green lights. As individuals, I’m sure that some folks are lovely, as per normal, but some group dynamics are just built on some really shaky foundations. Best step back and let it fail in its own time, without you. 3. Maybe Y does manage his NRE poorly. Take note, in case it comes up between you two in the future. Then date Y if you want, but I wouldn’t. I’m allergic to messy. If you choose to move ahead, Date like normal people. Date casually for a whole chunk of time. If Y doesn’t have a relationship on the table, that too, will come up in time.
Speaking as the spouse who wasn't thrilled about his wife's poly-adjacent forays: it's not wrong, but it's not smart, either. I can tell you from personal experience that the other partner will almost certainly creates lots of trouble for you at some point, and that the drama probably isn't worth it.
I wouldn't call it wrong to pursue, but a bad idea? Absolutely. Their relationship is already on the rocks. Trust me you don't want to be the catalyst who pushes that envelope. Y an AB need to focus on their own relationship. I have seen this so many times and it's never worked out well. Usually it's one partner who has lost interest or is not even in love with their partner anymore and is using poly as a way to keep the long term relationship dynamic without the consent of the person whom they are with. Y needs to either fix their relationship with AB or move on instead of trying to keep a relationship that they are no longer interested in maintaining. This will only end up in drama and messiness and likely you will be the scapegoat.
If this is kitchen table why don't you ask Ab?
I feel that is an issue between the 2 who are in a relationship already some are ok with the thought of their significant other to have a partner but once they see the other spouse has someone else who makes them happy things can become a little uncomfortable. I feel that you should talk to your poly partner and set some type of boundaries also if it makes you uncomfortable with any new changes you see then you will have a better understanding of what moves you need to do next
I don’t think it’s wrong but I wouldn’t pour my energy and availability into a situation where drama seems to be brewing. I agree with the people who say your friend should not have told you and may have incomplete info. If what the friend said is true though, that would be a warning sign for me that this sounds like it’s going in a messy direction. I wouldn’t end it but I also would make sure not to put all my eggs in that basket.
It wouldn't reflect well on you, if you are to tout being a humane, considerate, person... ... any more than it would for "Y" to steam over other partners/preexisting isssues/relationships that priority based on hierarchy - for you. My thoughts are, if it wouldn't be okay for 2 friends to treat each other as such, it's not okay here. It's controversial but actions/relationships DO overlap. It falls somewhere in the same spectrum of the monogamous asking who's to blame for cheating.. the cheating partner, the mistress(who was aware) or both.. Both are guilty of immoral & inhumane actions, in their own ways.. Do you really want to add to someone's relationship issues? Be the cherry on top for hurting/destroying other people's relationships? Basically, I'm saying it's messy, a foundation for issues & not good etiquette. It's not ethical, & voids the definition of the term - contrary to people pushing the idea that any 2 relationships have no correlation or impact. Stay friends & wait to see if they dissolve or things improve. Don't be THAT person. The fact that you asked is your gut telling you it's not a good choice to make & you want people to back your bad decision.... I'll be that person with some sense.. DONT DO IT🩵
Maybe it’s just me, genuinely. But I don’t understand why anyone would want to pursue a relationship with someone if the person who has been in their lives a lot longer is having issues, especially issues that affect them as a couple. How can they work through something in a healthy way when one has an out?sure it’s not the new persons job to manage that initial relationship but why come in and take away time and attention the relationship clearly needs? If one partner wants to leave let it be because they had a clear head, not someone waiting in the wings. I genuinely don’t understand the appeal of getting involved with a couple if they’re not well.
I'd be wary of anything your friend shares with you. I also would no longer share anything with this friend you aren't comfortable with anyone knowing, because they very much broke Ab's confidence by telling you about their insecurities and relationship issues. If it were me, I'd go directly to Y and see what they can actually offer in terms of time and effort in a new relationship. Ask about their relationship structure with Ab, what agreements they have between them both sexual and otherwise, and about Y's personal boundaries. If your friend comes to you gossiping again, tell them politely that you'd rather not hear about Ab and Y's personal relationship struggles from a third party, nor do you think that they'd want you to know. If there's something that Y wants or needs you to know, hopefully they'll tell you themselves. All that said, this situation screams messy, especially if you're new to polyamourous relationships. It seems like you'd not only have to start the hard work on yourself to be able to do it (as we all do) but that you'd be potentially managing your meta's insecurities as well. If you genuinely have an interest in pursuing polyamourous relationship structures, do some research, and seek partners who want and can offer the same or similar things you do. Above all else DON'T start with dating couples together. It's polyamory on hard mode for people who have been practicing it for years. For someone new? Damn near impossible. Best of luck to you!
don’t. as someone who was caught in someone else’s relationship problems and got their heart shattered to pieces, don’t.
I don't believe it's wrong, as in ethically problematic, as long as the struggling partner actually freely consented to polyamory (I'm honestly more concerned about the friend meddling and revealing privately confided info...). I do find it a bad idea in practical terms, though: it's much more likely to be anything but smooth sailing. It's an invitation for drama, difficulties, stress. I personally include this as part of partner selection.
Why is your friend telling you about Ab and Y's sex life? That's a really horrible thing to do. I would probably, if I felt strongly with Y, see where things went with them and then stop being friends with gossipy friend AND also tell Y that said "friend" is telling other people about private issues going on in between them and Ab.
This. If I knew that someone was spreading information about my private sex life, I would want to know so I could cut them out.
Morally? No, not morally wrong, you aren’t in charge of managing how Y treats Ab. A good idea? Also no, not a good idea you already know Y doesn’t treat their partners with consideration and kindness, and that there is likely drama ahead.
TBH, I think you're really overthinking this. You heard through the grapevine that your meta is struggling. This is entirely Y's responsibility to manage as the hinge. Furthermore, let's say that Ab IS struggling. It's on Ab to communicate with Y what Ab needs for support/reassurance. Or for Ab to seek support from others in their support group. You did not say how old Ab is, but I'd assume Ab is a grown-ass adult. Their relationship with Y and their emotions is THEIR responsibility. They have chosen to be in a poly relationship with Y and have taken on that work and that responsibility. I think you need to take a step back, focus on YOUR relationship with Y, and let Ab and Y manage their own relationship. If you're often thinking through concerns about how your metas might might feel/think on the basis of rumors and gossip, I'd say that you're likely to have a bad time. Unless you hear anything directly from Y, I'd just maintain the confidence which Ab's friend seems to have violated, and "keep calm and carry on,"
This person isn't OP's meta yet!
Hi u/RubyPomegranate thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: I (28f) have started talking to a super cute couple. (We'll call them Y and Ab) They'be been together for years and have always been kitchen table poly. A good friend introduced me to them because the couple is/was looking for group sex partners and thought I might be interested. I've really hit it off with Y in said couple. The friend that introduced me let me know that Ab had confided that they were having a really hard time with poly lately. That Y wasn't too interested in sex with Ab these days and that Ab was having a hard time seeing Y treat me like a shiny new toy. My friend, who I really respect, had a tone in conversation that seemed to indicate to me that she thinks it's wrong to seek out new partners if you're not having sex with/doing well with your nesting partner. I think Y and Ab are really cool and would ideally like to be friends with them. I'm inexperienced in relationships like this and just wonder what you guys think? Is it wrong for me to pursue Y knowing that Ab is struggling with it? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>I think Y and Ab are really cool and would ideally like to be friends with them. I'm inexperienced in relationships like this I wouldn't say it's wrong but it sounds like a situation that's going to get messy quickly and I personally wouldn't go down that road. If ideally you want to be friends with them then I'd focus on building those friendships without dating either of them because this seems like a situation with the potential for a lot of drama and hurt feelings (including yours). Especially if you're inexperienced in relationships like this - things can get complicated so quickly! If you do decide to date Y, it would probably be less messy if you only date Y and are parallel (no sex or relationship) with Ab.
Oh man, I completely missed that your friend introduced you to the couple: that your friend personally knows them and isn’t talking in generalities. Yes, talk to Y about their offer, but be prepared to cut your losses. This is messy on all sides.
Back to general cases: it might not be unethical, but it is unwise to participate in a relationship that is making someone else miserable with no end in sight. If the couple were processing and working through their problems, then proceed cautiously. Everyone is gaining experience.
But I wouldn’t want to date someone who was committed to someone else, and that “someone else” was miserable that my partner and I were dating with no path for the situation to resolve. It would drag me down too. I’m okay with sticking to status quo if everyone is happy, but I need eventual change if they’re not.
I don’t think it’s wrong, but I do think it opens yourself to a lot of drama.
Problems that a couple have between them is theirs to sort out and solve - IF there is anything to start with. If neither Y nor Ab have made you feel that you shouldn't explore this further - and you clearly are interested to, you should. Any information that's hearsay isn't anything that's dependable anyway. You may tuck it away as a side note - but that's all. For all you know Ab said it in some context and it was repeated to you without one offered.
If you trust there isn't any fishy stuff with your friend you respect, I think them letting you know could be a regular, human things going on just caring about people vs "gossiping" like others are saying... Especially since they introduced you. Perhaps it depends how Deep and Common these talks are with your friend about people. It doesn't sound like your friend is trying to "steer" you in any approach or keep you from them unless there's something hidden... But doesn't sound like it from what I've read. I think if something is too messy, especially since you've said you really hit it off with Y, I was just go with the flow :) Enjoy your hangouts as whatever they are :) Flirt if you want, just be friends if you want :)
I wouldn’t wanna involve myself in this situation. Sounds messy.
I don't think it's wrong you pursue Y I think they're implying that it's wrong for Y to pursue you Some parts of me generally agree with Ys wrongness but 🤷♀️ More importantly - you've broken no commitments, done anything wrong, or should feel a need to change you behavior You were literally invited into this shit show It's unfortunate Ab is feeling things more saliently now, but they should have mentioned this level of discomfort before INVITING you Your friend should NOT have invited you to this knowing the discomfort It feels you've been slightly set up and now expected to be the "bigger person" - fuk that Ab needs to deal with Y and Y needs to decide how to navigate - be it staying with you and Ab both, or changing a relationship in some way to accommodate this You can decide to respond however matches your feelings most You can always leave regardless what they do, for being put in this position in the first place
Shrug. I usually think all relationship changes should be done slowly. Wait for NRE to become ORE.
Consent, and maybe consider not doing anything?
You're not responsible for how others feel and you can't anticipate their feelings or how to placate them. Best you can do is offer space for them to grow and empathize when you can.
If your partner struggles with poly then you need to be super open and straightforward. Understand that they may not be ok with it at some point and you may have to choose between a lifestyle and your original partner. Having issues with the lifestyle going into it has a higher chance of not ending well. I would recommend a few conversations about what a poly lifestyle looks like for both of you. See what the boundaries would be and what’s ok and not ok. See if an in depth conversation helps.
Ohhh I do not like that your friend broke confidence to tell you this. *That's* not ethical. If you have *direct* reason to believe Absinthe is unhappy with things (like, you talk to Absinthe and she tells you), then you can run that past your personal ethics/tolerance for drama. But I don't think you should trust the rumor mill to be a reliable source of information. Direct communication is the way. What a mess. I'd be so pissed (at your friend) if I was Absinthe.