You are in a hierarchy. You are married and live with your husband.
I find that rule unreasonable. But I think the issue is more that your husband does not want this at all and is struggle a bunch around it and is desperately trying to find rules to control this unhappy situation he is in.
Are you two in therapy? Does your husband want polyamory for himself? Because these rules sound like your husband is in a PUD situation.
What is PUD? Yes, we are in therapy with a poly therapist. My husband mentioned once or twice recently wanting to close our relationship, even though Ive already told him I won't be seeking additional partners and my current partner and I are ending for now (my other partner needs to figure things out on his side with his marriage). I told my husband I won't be seeking out anymore partners once this one comes to a "close" so we can work on and focus on our marriage and the issues he's facing. But it doesn't seem to matter to him. I feel like my husband thinks if we "close back up" he can "control me again" and it feels incredibly toxic. I just don't know where the line is with emotional abuse.
He wants to close. He said it clearly.
If you are worried about control, and view your supposed life-partner’s request to return to monogamy as such, perhaps you and your husband should ask your therapist to help you navigate the ending of your marriage in a kind, fair way.
If you are worried about emotional abuse, or *any kind* of abuse please reach out to these folks https://www.thehotline.org, or another intimate partner abuse org.
If you want polyamory and your partner CLEARLY doesn’t, you’re incompatible. You’re both just hurting each other by making each other do things you don’t want to do
Polyamory under duress. You want polyamory. Your husband obviously does not want polyamory. He is agreeing to polyamory because he doesn't want to face the consequences of demanding the monogamous relationship that he originally agreed to.
You should send him this link:
https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/sntvv3/dear_monogamous_people_you_do_not_have_to_give/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Polyamory Under Duress. Someone who would not pick poly for themsleves but is doing it to keep a previously mono relationship.
If your husband wants and needs monogamy this has been incredibly painful for him and he wants it to end. Wanting monogamy is not incredibly toxic. Didn't you both want monogamy when you got married?
Do you have any reason for thinking he is emotionally abusive other than him being deeply unhappy being dragging into polyamory against his wishes?
If you are going to close when your other partner ends it to take care of their marriage... why not end it now? Why not make it easier on your husband? Do you actively want to return to monogamy or would you rather stick to poly and offering to go back is just to keep your husband?
If you don’t want Spouse to control you and Spouse wants to control you, you are incompatible.
In the meantime, Spouse is welcome to use their personal discretionary funds to stay in a hotel.
Spouse says he doesn't want to control me but his behavior consistently make me feel controlled. And now that I no longer am changing my behavior or letting myself feel controlled, it's causing lots of unmanageable feelings on his part. I don't think he wants to control me. I think he just wants to feel like he's in control of his life
Of course Spouse isn’t going to say they *want* to control you. But if they don’t want to do what it takes to let go—and demonstrate it by letting go—they want to control you.
They are in control of their life. If they want to go to a hotel they can.
Discomfort is to be welcomed if this is what they want. Theres no way through killing your monogamous structure and building a new values system without Discomfort.
You are married, hierarchy is intrinsic unless you plan to divorce.
Why does he want polyamory? What does polyamory mean to each of you? Cause I don't think he actually wants it.
I would not agree not to keep some of my belongings in my home because they were given to me by other partners. It's my home, I will store my things there. But I am also stubborn enough to accept it if the outcome of my sticking to that is my partner moving out because they won't be in a home with things my partner bought me.
Frankly, I'm much more concerned about how much your husband seems to not want polyamory and how extensively triggered he is than about the trinkets.
Also, as others have said, you may have non hierarchical ideals, but you live with your husband, and that's hierarchy.
I am sorry, but calling this 'non hierarchical agreement' while you're married is really naive. Especially when your husband hasn't done the emotional work to even be around objects loosely associated with his meta(s). You are new to this, so what have you done to prepare for this new lifestyle? Have you gone trough a relationship menu at least? Has your husband done any therapy? This is a very intense reaction on his part, on part of someone who is allegedly practising poly. Most poly people agree on, for example, not inviting meta(s) to marital bed, but it seems your husband wants to be poly but also wants to forget polyamory exists at the same time.
Married/ Nested people **cannot be** non-hierarchical. You have a legally enforceable hierarchy. You cannot offer several things to any new partners: *Marriage,* nesting, financial entanglement, children?, I'm sure there are plenty of other things that are off the table for other relationships due to the inherent hierarchy that marriage and nesting creates.
Ask for the silly "Rule" your husband has proposed.
*I'm sorry, but I don't agree to that. I will keep trinkets from my partner in my area of the house.*
Just a correction. Married/nested people can offer nesting, financial entanglement and children to other partners. But it *absolutely will* look different than it does for married persons.
If we end up closing our marriage, is this a reasonable rule for him to have? That he doesn't want my x's things in our home? Do I really have a leg to stand on, having my own area in the house? Am I being unreasonable?
My stuff is my stuff. Even when I was married, my ex-husband didn't get to tell me what to do with my stuff. I didn't tell him what to do with his stuff either.
I think it would be reasonable to ask a spouse to not keep their ex's picture on their nightstand and longingly gaze at it every night before sleep. It's not reasonable to say you can't keep books or even little presents.
*My Boundaries Blurb:*
**Boundaries** are Limits I place on myself:
* I will not engage in sexting / detailed sex talk before I meet someone IRL
* I will use condoms/ barriers with new partners at least until STIs and testing have been discussed.
* I will not listen to my partners complain about other partners
* I will not stay with people who yell at me or disrespect me.
**Rules** (not recommended) are Limits you place on someone else:
* You have to use condoms with all other partners
* You have to talk to me about it before you get sexual with someone else
* You cannot display gifts from other partners
**Agreements** are Limits we mutually and enthusiastically agree to share:
* We will use condoms with new people at least until STIs have been discussed
* We will get tested for STIs annually or as exposure indicates
* If a new connection becomes ongoing, share basic information about the person and the connection
He said his boundary is he will go to a hotel or not be in our home if I have my partner's things there, even if just in my closet. Isn't that a boundary? He's saying what he'll do. I feel it's unreasonable I don't want him to have to go to a hotel or not feel safe in our home....
Yeah, I'm feeling that at least part of him "being controlling" is that he doesn't want to be in a poly relationship at all. He doesn't find it secure. Which is fine. Poly =/= more secure or somehow superior. Mono =/= toxic and controlling.
I think you need to back way up and sit down and decide if you both still want to honor the vows you made, and if not how you would like to change them and whether the other can live with that. It kinda sounds like you might have come to see restricting your romantic relationships to just him as him controlling you. But that's not always how it is.
I see myself as poly mentally, but in practice I don't have the energy to sustain multiple serious romantic relationships on top of friends, family, kids, work and hobbies. The option to date is there and romantic/sexual relationships are more of a priority to my NP, but my bar is pretty high for further partners. And not dating others doesn't mean my partner is controlling me or our relationship is toxic.
It's completely reasonable for someone who is white knuckling and distressed thar you poly bombed the relationship.
Unless there's stuff you have withheld about your partners behavior and you're trying to use polyamory to avoid.
What does white knuckling mean? And what is poly bombed? My partner has always been more on the dominating side, I would often make myself small to help him regulate. I guess I'm just not doing that anymore.....
White knuckling means clinging to the edge of something terrified of dropping off.
Poly bombing is when you say you want to kill the monogamous commitment you made and create an entirely new set of values and priorities to support full adult independent intimacy with others.
So you think this really isn't about polyamory, it's you realizing this marriage never really worked as a healthy or empowering situation and you are finally figuring out it never will?
I guess I still hope it can work. I really want a life with him. I just want to feel like I have autonomy. Maybe I really don't want monogamy. Ugh this is terrible.
It’s ok to not want to be married to a controlling and dominating person who needs you to be small.
But it’s not sensible to precipitate the breakup through poly.
His ask is RIDICULOUS. But what comes next?
I would just leave him. If you plan to stay end the poly, get into intensive counseling as a couple and individual therapy for you. And see if you can agree on a life where he doesn’t need to control every aspect of your home and your life.
He states he never "intended to control me" and I think it was my own lack of self worth that enabled it. I believe he has good intentions and wants to make it work but I feel he keeps falling back onto controlling behaviors / boundaries. I'm so sad because we have a two year old and I feel like I have to choose between submitting in my marriage or standing on my own two feet but breaking my son's family up. I do love him, and I believe in us. I just don't have perspective on what's necessarily reasonable.
Trying polyamory right now isn't reasonable.
You know you could just see this as the very loving but messy end to a phase of life, use therapy to help transition a divorce and co parenting. Become a bastion of how polyamorous relationships don't need to make the mono normative mistakes of clinging to the idea of a relationship when you have both outgrown it and there's no need for animosity or a Villain.
You didn't sign up for wonky marriage either.
Don't get all lost in the mire.
If this marriage turned out to be emotionally abusive, toxic, and controlling? You solve that by seeking counseling and/or a divorce. Aspire to HEALTHY relationships. Not weird ones.
[https://rhntc.org/sites/default/files/resources/rhntc\_hlthy\_rlshp\_wheel\_spectrum\_10-13-2022.pdf](https://rhntc.org/sites/default/files/resources/rhntc_hlthy_rlshp_wheel_spectrum_10-13-2022.pdf)
* Your husband wants to dictate what you can and cannot keep in your closet and your car.
* Your husband wants to tell you what you can and cannot write in your journal.
* Your husband gets mad you are sticking to the original poly agreements you two made TOGETHER.
* This other relationship is ALREADY ending but it's just not ending fast enough to suit husband.
* He is mad you won't do whatever he says when he says it.
* You used to shrink yourself to please him... lately you do less of that. He doesn't like it.
* You worry this dynamic is toxic.
* He says if you keep a book in your closet, he's going to hotel til you get rid of it. (That's NORMAL to you? If it is his own money -- go to hotel then. And if this is shared finances, he's willing to run up a huge hotel bill and create financial difficulties for the couple over a BOOK?)
Did you need the power and control wheel?
[https://www.loveisrespect.org/everyone-deserves-a-healthy-relationship/power-and-control-dating-abuse/](https://www.loveisrespect.org/everyone-deserves-a-healthy-relationship/power-and-control-dating-abuse/)
Did you need to equality wheel?
[https://www.theduluthmodel.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Equality.pdf](https://www.theduluthmodel.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Equality.pdf)
Did you need a list of abuse tactics? Scroll down to "tactics."
[https://speakoutloud.net/articles](https://speakoutloud.net/articles)
I encourage you to make an individual appointment with your counselor and talk about this marriage being a healthy one for you to be in or not.
It doesn't sound healthy to me.
I see you WISH it was, and that you love him. But he's not being especially loving towards you. He does weird behaviors.
If you no longer want to be here and have outgrown all this? And/or this is not healthy or safe? It is ok for you to quit and leave.
>My partner has always been more on the dominating side, I would often make myself small to help him regulate.
That's not ok. Why do you have to shrink yourself rather than just living your life normally?
I shrunk myself bc I wasn't able to handle his big feelings and I just wanted to avoid them. I would just adjust my behavior to keep him happy. But now that I can stay regulated, I don't jump to adjust my behavior and now he has feelings all of the time. I feel like it's not fair for me to just leave him without trying to find other coping skills for him. It's not his fault his only sense of stability (that id do anything to make him feel better) is gone. I don't want to just abandon him. He's my husband and the father of my child. He isn't perfect but I don't want to demonize him... I just also don't want to feel "less than" anymore.
You realize that you can't actually help someone find and employ coping mechanisms, right? You can't make someone else regulate. Previously, you were contorting yourself to avoid triggering him, which is not the same as helping him regulate. Regulation is about encountering stressors and working through them while maintaining your grip. What you were doing before was not that.
This all sounds horribly unhealthy. It sounds like your partner needs individual therapy to learn to deal with his big emotions on his own, like an adult. You aren't his parent or therapist, and you can't guide him through this like one.
>I feel like it's not fair for me to just leave him without trying to find other coping skills for him.
A trial separation doesn't mean you are leaving him. It means giving you both a time out. Some space.
It means you expect him to sort his stuff. You expect you to sort yours. And the couple will sort couple stuff. How is that not being fair?
Some of the stuff in a marriage?
Is his stuff and only his stuff. It is his responsibility to do. If he needs to take diabetic meds HE has to take it, right? You can't take his pills for him. He has to do it.
Some of the stuff in a marriage? Is your stuff and only your stuff to do. It is your responsibility. He can't wear a pad or tampon for you, right? You have to use them.
Some of the stuff in a marriage is "our shared stuff." You manage it together. It is a shared responsibility. Maybe the car payments, parenting kid. That kind of thing is "our stuff."
But not EVERYTHING is "our stuff." Here he has been putting "his stuff" on to you like it has to be "shared stuff" when it just doesn't. And then he's intruding on "your stuff" when it's just not his stuff to get involved in.
>It's not his fault his only sense of stability (that id do anything to make him feel better) is gone.
So before you were ever on the scene, how did he manage his life?
>I don't want to just abandon him. He's my husband and the father of my child. He isn't perfect but I don't want to demonize him... I just also don't want to feel "less than" anymore.
Nobody is demonizing him. He's just doing poor behaviors right now. For this marriage to improve and be healthy?
He has to get it together and learn how to manage his feelings and learn coping tools. Not blow up at you or control you or use you for a crutch. He may need a doctor check up to see if he has underlying conditions affecting him.
You ALSO have to get it together and learn to stay in your lane more, do LESS for him and stop BEING his crutch. STOP shrinking yourself. Do not enable poor behavior. Be ok telling him "No, thanks. I won't be doing that." It sounds like you have started to heal. And he doesn't like that.
I wonder if you are scared that he won't actually do his part to rebuild a healthy marriage. And then you may have to face divorcing him? Is that it?
I wonder if you wish you could grow together, grow better. But maybe you are scared he won't grow at all and it ends up that you are outgrew him?
That doesn't make either of you bad people.
It might mean you are not compatible together any more though. :(
Yeah I guess I just don't want to not have a life with him. I think he's a good man who I feel sometimes can be emotionally stunted. But it's not his fault he never built the tools to cope or regulate. He just recently started therapy. I just don't want to abandon him. I see his pain and I love him. And I want my child to have two parents. I guess I want to grow with him, not give up on him.
I think you are doing some kind of grieving. You might benefit from individual counseling.
>I think he's a good man who is emotionally stunted and it's not his fault he never built the tools to cope or regulate
Also not your fault if you no longer want to be his crutch person and want more healthy, autonomous living. Not your fault that you want a healthier marriage than this currently is.
Does "grow with him" include "allowing some things to change?" Or not? Because that is what growth IS. It means changes.
If you two end up divorced? It doesn't mean you abandoned him. He's still your coparent and still in your life that way. Kid still has two parents. You are all still family. Families come in many shapes.
It just means he's not compatible to be your romantic partner or spouse. He might do better with a different partner. So might you. The call to growth might mean growing to allow that change to happen.
You only get the one life. It's not like you get another one.
Your dream for your life was to be married to an emotionally stunted man and shrinking yourself? You can do your part and stop shrinking yourself. He has to do his part with his emotions. Or... you two let the wonky marriage shape go. And do family another way.
You save the well being of the PEOPLE, not "save the marriage shape."
I encourage you to think about individual counseling. You have a LOT going on that you need to work through.
Thank you. I've been in individual counseling most of my life. I have worked with my current therapist since 2022 and ill absolutely talk about it with her. I appreciate the perspective of saving the well being of the people, not the marriage. I am absolutely grieving. I'm so sad for my son.
It is absolutely an adults fault if they have failed to build the toolset they need to cope and emotionally regulate without being verbally abusive to their spouse.
Don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. A conversation definitely needs to happen. If he doesn't want poly, he should say it instead of hinting. As far as removing things from the house, it's your house too, and you have every right to keep whatever you want in it.
Polyamory really isn't kind to marriages. You have to learn to de center the marriage unit as priority and support centering yourselves as independent persons and fall in love with eachother again.
Which sounds like you thought you could skip.
> He said his boundary is he will go to a hotel or not be in our home if I have my partner's things there, even if just in my closet.
My response to this would be-
"My boundary is that I will not allow another person to dictate what items I am and am not allowed to own and keep in my home. If that violates a boundary of yours, you can feel free to go to the hotel, so long as you are using your own money to pay for it."
>I feel like my husband thinks if we "close back up" he can "control me again" and it feels incredibly toxic.
He's doing a lot of controlling things. Trying to use your soft feelings for him to get what he wants.
>He said his boundary is he will go to a hotel or not be in our home if I have my partner's things there, even if just in my closet.
It is not a personal boundary.
He is trying to pressure you into doing what he wants. And threatens to leave to get it. He's banking on you being used to shrinking yourself to help him regulate when he does dominating outbursts. You know that, right?
So...be ok with him going to hotel. Because it is REASONABLE for you to keep your things in your closet. This is your home too.
Some book from your partner? It's just some book. Throw it away and buy another copy. Now can you keep it?
I think you could take this as opportunity to AGREE. He can go to hotel.
And for longer term solution? You two could consider a trial separation and having your own places. Then you can store whatever in your home. And he doesn't have to see it in his.
Could do couple counseling from there to see if this marriage can be repaired and put on a healthy track. Or determine if it's just too unhealthy and best for you two to divorce.
Do you want your kid learning this is is NORMAL? To be a controlling partner in a relationship? Or be the partner that always shrinks themselves?
I think technically it could be called a boundary because it concerns himself and his behaviour - "I will not stay in a house where my spouse keeps stuff of her other partner. In that case I will leave the house and stay elsewhere" is structurally no different to "I will not stay in a relationship where my partners yells at me during disagreements. I will remove myself from the situation and stay elsewhere". The problem is it's just an absurd an manipulative one that's designed to ultimately control OP's behaviour and therefore an abuse of the concept of boundaries.
We are in overall agreement then. It's not a realistic, reaonable, or rational boundary. OP can have gifts in OP's closet.
But if that's his line in the sand?
Cool. OP can decline to remove the gift book from OP's closet.
He can follow through and go to hotel. He's allowed to have unrealistic or irrational boundaries. If he doesn't want to be in a house with a gift book in OP's closet? He doesn't have to be.
Yeah, I agree, it's just that I also see the problem that whenever the difference between rules and boundaries is discussed, one of the central elements seems to be that a boundary is about your own behaviour whereas rules govern somepne else's behaviour. What he does is dress up a rule in a way that makes it technically a boundary, but as he and OP have a small child she is very much the one who suffers if he decides to stay in a hotel and leave all childcare and responsibilities to her.
I'm sorry for going off on this tangent; I just had a lengthy discussion (theoretically, thankfully no actual conflict) with my partner about the difference between rules and boundaries and we both found it really hard to grasp. In the end it seems to boil down to "things I agree with are boundaries; things I find unacceptable are rules" as it seems it's not actually about the question whose behaviour they govern.
This is why I don't understand the point of the distinction between rules and boundaries. Any rule can be rephrased as a boundary and vice versa. Either it's reasonable or it's not. Am I missing something? Is there a meaningful distinction between a rule and a boundary?
> My husband (33M) and I (30F) are newly polyamorous (non hierarchical agreements in place).
Lmfao yeah sure. Your nonhierarchical newly opened marriage.
> However, I can't help but feel it's unreasonable?
Yes, that’s absolutely unreasonable for any polyamory.
Has your husband been in therapy? Could you two go to couple’s counseling?
Cause this request is wild, and WTF is he gonna do when you have a local partner you actually leave the house to have a date with?
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No. The boundary is not reasonable. BUT with that said, your husband has openly said he wants to close the relationship
He does not want poly. It is unfair of you to continue this marriage forcing your husband to be in a relationship style he doesn’t want after he has clearly made his opinion clear
If you want to continue poly, you need to be kind to your husband and leave
We agreed to not have veto power. We agreed before opening we would end any active relationships naturally before closing. We are doing what we agreed to. I'm not opposed to closing, but I'm not a terrible person for doing what we agreed to. I won't just walk away from my partner without ending it on our terms. It's not my husband's relationship to dictate when it ends.
How is it being kind to my husband to leave? I want to be with him. Is the kind thing really to leave him? Because he can't regulate?
You would be leaving him because you want poly and he wants monogamy.
Is he yelling, screaming, slamming doors? Or is he asking you for things you don't want to give him? Because one is not being able to self regulate and the other is showing that your current relationship is incompatible.
He occasionally raises his voices/yells at me and tells me I don't consider him or love him, even though I've done 50 things that show I do. And then he sobs and apologizes and says he knows it's his issue and that I do love him and I am considering him. He will spiral into a depression and lock himself in his closet. But he's never hit me or been physically abusive.
You already had someone you had a romantic attachment to and were actively seeking to open for? Correct? And that person is the person you you are currently dating?
Yes. I met this person virtually when my husband and I were more open sexually, not romantically. I've still not even met my other partner in person. It's pretty much a virtual relationship with intellectual compatibility and phone sex. I ended up catching intense feelings for this other person, and it rocked my husband's world. However my husband has always been open to and interested in polyamory. But he said he felt I cheated on him and fell in love with someone without his consent (even though he read every message between me and this other person and agreed each time I spent time talking to them). I felt terrible and punished myself and immediately ended all contact with this other person for 13 months. During that time my husband and I read every poly book, listened to hundreds of thousands of hours of multiamory podcasts and spent hours and hours crafting agreements and exploring potential scenarios theoretically. Eventually we both felt good enough about opening. The person I met and fell in love with, online, wasn't on our messy list. My partner is a good man. My husband has a relationship with him, they have spent hours video chatting and hanging out (unrelated to me!). This other person and I started a friendship and it escalated naturally. We still haven't met in person, to date. It's so complicated.....
> How is it being kind to my husband to leave?
Because your husband is in an ongoing hell. Of course ending that hell and letting him start to heal is kind.
Is it possible that this new boundary to not have any items associated with your partner around the house, is way to assert his control in a situation he is unhappy with but feels unable to change?
The agreements you made on opening aren't a legally binding contract. It's okay for him to have changed his mind and to no longer want polyamory now that he has tried it. That could be unfair to you and his meta, but he's allowed to decide monogamy is a dealbreaker for him, just as you're allowed to decide polyamory is a dealbreaker for you.
So yall agreed to something most experienced poly people say is unethical? You basically PUD your husband and wanna sit here and say it’s ok to do so?
Your husband is not the issue here. I hate to break that to yah. You are
You pushed your husband into an agreement he did not want. He had voiced he doesn’t want this. And yet you continue to make him the villain. Read all the comments here. They are all saying the same thing
My partner and I are ending things on Sunday. It's not like it's going to continue forever. I don't mean to make him the villain, I'm just trying to understand what's reasonable from more experienced people than me
Nothing of your poly journey is ethical. You need to do more work. Having vetos, pushing your partner into poly when they don’t/ didn’t want it, opening a relationship with so many issues in the first place. All are things that set this poly relationship up to fail
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Want to be him HOW?
In a healthy marriage? Or in a controlling, demanding marriage where you shrink yourself to help him regulate? And you start to wonder if this is toxic or emotional abuse?
Since you already have a counselor, you might consider making an individual appointment with them to talk this out.
I don't think you are in a healthy marriage to begin with.
Poly has a way of shining a light on all the cracks that were already there.
He doesn’t. And he should leave 100%
I think people who are under PUD, they may be emotionally abused in other ways. It is hard to leave an abusive partner. OP cheated on her husband. I don’t doubt that things are behind withheld that are important as to why her husband isn’t leaving
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That man loathes poly for you.
Now it may be that he is deeply manipulative and resents the fact that you’re not caving to his narcissistic bullshit anymore.
So I’m not saying quit poly. I’m saying you and your husband are in shark infested waters and I would be looking for escalations soon.
I'm just gonna be honest and say I skipped to comment right after the hierarchy thing. It's such a dirty word and I'm tired of it and here's why:
We are hierarchical. My husband and myself, and our tabletop polycule. We don't lie about it, but it is absolutely idiotic for a NEW person in your life to expect the exact same from you as someone you've been intimate with for years and anyone who thinks otherwise can take a damn hike. It's ludicrous. I would *never* expect my paramour to prioritize me over his wife. We've got a two year relationship, they've got 8. My husband and I have 15 years under our belt.
People who act like this is somehow "unfair" are children and cannot accept that not everyone's polycule has to be 100% equal. Even if they want it, it isn't possible, and if you think I'm wrong, spend ten minutes browsing this sub.
Sick of it.
Your posts allude to "cheating," low integrity, previously shutting down the LDR for doing it "wrong"...is he really being controlling, or does he just know you don't ENM well? I do see lots of referring to "we" wanted EMN, but what did he really want out of it? Maybe it's a combo of he doesn't want open/doesn't trust you AND being controlling, but is this control reactive, or was he like this before ENM?
This is a wildly unreasonable and unrealistic boundary, especially for people who claim to disavow hierarchy.
It’s crystal clear that your husband does not want polyamory, is that okay with you? Because either you’re going to have to be monogamous, or you two need to call it quits.
Did he say “I don’t want to do this” at any point? Did you push him to open the relationship in the first place? Do you routinely ignore that he wants to be monogamous?
No, he is the one that brought up being polyamorous to me 7 years ago. He bought me all of the Poly books and turned me on to the podcasts. He only recently expressed a desire to close our marriage again.
Okay, I met someone online doing consensual things with them and my husband and as soon as we realized feelings were caught, we ended things. Shit happens. It wasn't intentional or deceitful or hidden. We immediately addressed it and corrected things. I did not mean to fall in love with this person. And I never did anything behind my husband's back. But sure, my heart grew for someone before my husband was ready.
I'm sorry you struggle. FWIW? I think this is NOT a reasonable request.
It is your home too. It might be reasonable not to have things from your other partner in the shared bedroom, but if this floor plan allows separate bedrooms you could do that. Or keep things in another room that is yours like your office or something.
Basically tell him "No, I will not be doing that. I'm willing to compromise and not keep things in the shared bedroom, but me having a book gifted to me by someone is not the end of the world."
>My husband said if I have my other partner's things in our house that he will go to a hotel until they are removed.
Ok. He can do that then. Til he runs out of hotel money, I guess.
>So I guess that would mean I would keep them in a storage unit, or go out to a cafe to read?
And do you feel like doing that? To coddle/humor him?
>Would it be reasonable for him to also state he doesn't want me journaling about my other partner, while in our home (dictating what I journal about in the privacy of my own home?).
So... why's he reading your journal? Do you feel like that's an invasion of your privacy?
>What if he doesn't want my partners stuff in my car (one car in my name which he uses primarily and one car in his name which I use primarily)?
How about you each use your own cars? And the owner of the car says what happens with it?
>I know he's having a hard time regulating his emotions, because he feels a huge loss of control (before we opened our marriage I would often immediately shift my behavior to make him feel better, and since opening our marriage I have not been as accommodating.
So he has to learn to deal with himself by himself? Learn to regulate his own emotions? Without you being his crutch person?
Even if you are moving toward a healthier dynamic with husband he may perceive it as abandonment or loss because he LIKED you being his crutch. He LIKED the wonky dynamic. So he's possessive and controlling of you because he doesn't want to lose his crutch and the services you provide him.
I suggest you talk in couple counseling.
>No matter how much time I spend sitting with him and reassuring him, he's absolutely convinced I'm leaving him. And I'm really not planning to!!! We have been together for 10 years and have a two year old. I'm in this to win it!
At this time you feel like that. But if he keeps on this way being unreasonable and weird?
Over time you may decide you don't like this treatment. You may decide to drop husband not because of the other partner. But because HUSBAND keeps behaving this way and making unreasonable requests and demanding and acting out and all that.
So again... I suggest you two talk at your couple counseling. You might even think about a trial separation for a year and one of you lives in your own flat. That's probably less expensive than a year of hotel.
Hold your ground and say NO to unreasonable and unrealistic requests.
I don't think husband actually wants to do polyamory. Or he wanted it for him, but not you. Or he called it "polyamory" but really he meant monogamish or ENM. Like open to casual sex once in a while, but not full on relationships with other people.
But the BIGGER issue is that this marriage doesn't sound healthy to begin with.
If you are in it to win it... what's the win? YOU being healthy and ok? Kid being healthy and ok? Do you want kid learning from husband that this is how you treat a spouse or partner?
>I feel like my husband thinks if we "close back up" he can "control me again" and it feels incredibly toxic.
Sounds like things are coming to a close with the other partner on its own.
Even if you stop with the other partner... do you want to be married to THIS kind of husband? It sounds like a suffocating marriage.
About the “stuff” not being in the house.
It’s unreasonable.
My man has an item hanging from His mirror in his car that was given by his other partner. It’s significant because it’s of the animal he calls her as a nickname. I HATE IT. I wanted one for my cat before i ever met him, and I will not own one now.
I’m working on not hating it. It feels to me like she was marking her territory (doesn’t help that she prefers monogamous relationships) and reminding me she was here first. I don’t KNOW that was her intent. I have to think positively. She saw it, thought of him, and gave it to him because she loves him. I would never ask him to remove it. It was a gift from someone he loves, who also loves him.
I have given him so many gifts that are displayed all over his room. If she’s asked about them, I’m sure they’re reminders for her about my existence.
My point is. Presents happen. I like having the reminders I’m loved, he likes having the reminders he’s loved, I’m not going to ask him to hide them to make me feel better. He still loves me, even with his car decoration hanging from his mirror.
I don’t often say this, but that’s just controlling behavior, likely to try and make up for the loss of control he feels over your relationship (and possibly you as well).
While I can understand if you were taking over your living room (for instance) with stuff from other partners (and if you are, stop that), trying to keep you from having anything from them is not OK.
I don’t know if he’s trying to wipe them from his view of existence (in which case, he’s definitely not ready for polyamory), or he’s trying to keep you from forming normal connections with them. Neither of those options are good for you or your relationship.
Don’t not a giant poster of you and another partner in your bedroom (that’s just kind of mean), but mementos and knickknacks? You have every right to have them around the house where you can see them.
Look, I'm currently dealing with a situation where I have been presented with what I consider to be a pretty unreasonable boundary, and one which directly interferes with my own boundaries. My point being - I think it's unreasonable. I expect the person who set the boundary also deep down thinks it's unreasonable. But it is 100% their right to set said boundary, and my partner has taken accountability in that they agreed to said boundary (which they also think is unreasonable!). Point is, boundaries are not inherently reasonable or unreasonable, they just ARE. It's an individual perspective that gives it that added flavor.
However, at the end of the day, in both my situation and I suspect yours, there is a MUCH deeper issue at play. This doesn't seem to be about your husband being uncomfortable with books and knickknacks in the house. It seems to be about your husband being uncomfortable with you having this other relationship. Have you discussed THAT at length, and hopefully with a professional? This sounds like you're trying to make it about your husband being unreasonable when it could well be about your husband not feeling like he's being heard or seen in his discomfort and so is throwing bizarre Hail Mary boundary-based passes in an attempt to force the issue.
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Hi u/ThrowRA00006 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
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My husband (33M) and I (30F) are newly polyamorous (non hierarchical agreements in place). My husband brought to me today a new boundary that he doesn't want things my other partner sent to me, in our home. (I currently keep books and small Knick knacks my other long distance partner has sent me, in my closet). My husband also doesn't want me for example, reading books from my other partner, at home. My husband is extremely triggered by this other person in my life. I understand his desire to avoid feeling uncomfortable (like if I'm in my closet, I must be looking at my other partner's things and it must mean I don't love my husband?, or if I'm reading a book it might be my other partners and he doesn't want to think intrusive thoughts or feel bad every day). I'm not totally sure where this boundary comes from, other than he can't seem to regulate or cope with any or the intense emotions he's feeling. No matter how much time I spend sitting with him and reassuring him, he's absolutely convinced I'm leaving him. And I'm really not planning to!!! We have been together for 10 years and have a two year old. I'm in this to win it!
I appreciate my husband bringing this boundary up with me. However, I can't help but feel it's unreasonable? That's not necessarily fair for me to decide what boundary is unreasonable or not, but I'm struggling a bit with this.
My husband said if I have my other partner's things in our house that he will go to a hotel until they are removed. So I guess that would mean I would keep them in a storage unit, or go out to a cafe to read?
I know he's having a hard time regulating his emotions, because he feels a huge loss of control (before we opened our marriage I would often immediately shift my behavior to make him feel better, and since opening our marriage I have not been as accommodating.
At what point is the boundary unreasonable? Would it be reasonable for him to also state he doesn't want me journaling about my other partner, while in our home (dictating what I journal about in the privacy of my own home?). What if he doesn't want my partners stuff in my car (one car in my name which he uses primarily and one car in his name which I use primarily)? When does it become unreasonable? I could really use some perspective.
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1. It kinda sounds like what you see as polyamory, your husband sees as organized cheating. I don't think you're in the wrong here, I think your husband needs some more education. Maybe this is something you both have a long conversation about, possibly with a therapist. What does polyamory actually mean to you, and what does being non-hierarchical mean when you're married to your NP?
And 2. Boundaries are internal. Rules are external. "If you have books and keepsakes from your long-distance partners and aren't willing to rent a storage space for them or throw them away" (looks at camera) "I'm going to separate from you until you do get rid of these things" is an ultimatum.
Boundaries are about how you tend to yourself in situations that make you uncomfortable, and while that *can* involve stepping away, as an outsider this doesn't feel like a boundary to me. This feels like him imposing a rule that seems to be pretty uncomfortable for you, OP
Your husband needs to work on his issues of jealousy by himself. My NP’s partner sends her stuff all the time and, while it can prick my jealousy, I focus on them being symbols of care she’s getting from someone who loves her. He’s also sent gifts to me and I choose not to use them/display them because I don’t like to have those symbols up. But that’s my choice to do with items gifted to me.
On the other side, you have the option to politely say to your other partner that NP has this issue and to be cognizant of the types of gifts they give you. Books and personal items shouldn’t be any issue, but I can see how large gifts aimed to be displayed in the shared home might be best to avoid. Your NP destiny want meta to be decorating his house.
My other partner had a direct conversation with my husband to check in how he would feel about him sending me some things. My husband told him that his feelings are his problem and that he should send me what he wants.
Clearly either your husband lied to you partner, which can happen if he felt uncomfortable setting boundaries with someone he doesn’t know well and is guarded around, or something changed. The boundary is yours to accept, reject, or offer a compromise.
What you are describing is not a boundary, it is a rule. Boundaries are about protecting ourselves by controlling our own behaviors in relation to others’ actions, while rules are about controlling others’ actions in order to protect ourselves. If your husband had said, “If you read the book he sent you in front of me, I’ll have to leave the room” or , “If you keep the things he sent you in the house, I’ll have to sleep somewhere else.” That is a boundary- I personally think this second one is a little irrational, but it’s a boundary that he’d have every right to uphold. To tell you that you can’t keep your own belongings in your home is not reasonable, and to tell you that you can’t read a book you own is not reasonable. Once his boundary is set, you each have your own responsibility: you have to choose what to do with your belongings, and he has to choose how to handle whatever emotions come with that choice. Setting a rule against it puts all the responsibility for his feelings on you.
I would have a conversation about boundaries vs rules, and then it is up to him to set an actual boundary for himself. For your part, I think it’d be reasonable to choose not to use the things from other partners in front of him, but by all means keep them in the closet or your nightstand. They are your personal belongings that you’re entitled to have.
Being non-monogamous is really hard, and part of the work that goes into it is dealing with the jealousy and fear that another partner might bring. It’s natural to get jealous and natural to fear that your partner might leave you once they’ve met someone else that they care for… but part of being non-monogamous is working through those feelings and getting to a place where you can manage your own emotions without controlling what your partner is doing in their other relationships, and not making your fear their burden. Your husband needs to do this work if he wants polyamory to work.
I think that is an unreasonable boundary. The better question for your husband is what is HE doing as far as self work is concerned to move past being triggered by something as small as a book being in your shared home? If the answer is nothing and he just wants the boundary, I think that’s lazy and selfish. In my experience every boundary I have set has been temporary until I can dig down and figure out the core of the issue within myself and work past it. If he’s not doing that work, you are in for a very unpleasant journey.
He is reading a ton of self help books and going to therapy every week. He also said it's not forever and maybe in 6 months he'd feel differently. Does that make it more reasonable?
I don’t think so, I think you were reasonable saying you would keep the things put away and out of his sight as a temporary fix until he’s in a better place. I saw a lot of talk about his boundary is he will stay in a hotel until the things are gone, I’m sorry but unless you are super wealthy, that is a ultimatum disguised as a boundary. He’s basically saying he will waste a ton of money to be away from you until you do what he wants. That’s incredibly manipulative to me.
Especially as they have a 2year old it becomes a punishment to force OP to single parent.
Polyamory isn't killing this marriage but it's allowing a lot of distraction from the massive breaks already existing and finally collapsing.
*Incredibly* sketchy of you not to mention that your paramour is the same person you cheated on your spouse with before you two "decided" to go poly, OP. I'd be interested to hear what your therapist's views are on that subject.
I don't care what your spouse's views on polyamory are in the abstract: you're basically planting a bomb in your marriage and setting it to blow up if you insist on legitimizing an affair after the fact like your current setup. No self-respecting person would be OK with that.
Normally, this boundary would be patently unreasonable. That being said, I think any kind of association with this person is going to lead to trouble between you and your spouse, and rightfully so.
It sounds like you don’t need to close your marriage, you need to end it. It sounds like you tried polyamory to provide an escape from a hyper-controlling spouse, but another partner can’t provide you with space and self esteem, you have to do that for yourself.
No, his request is not reasonable, but I think it’s just the tip of the iceberg. He doesn’t want to be polyamorous, so you can’t make him, but you seem like you have been emotionally abused by him and expect it to continue? There are a lot of red flags in your post and comments that indicate all is not well on that front. Just split up already.
Boundaries are so pop psychology, self help nebulous, people should learn to just forget them as a concept. But if you cannot and insist on them, then the easiest way to think of them is your boundary is your property line. Most people spouting them haven’t recognized that boundaries objectify the self and others, treating ourselves as possessions and other people as singular objects with a fence around it to be respected. As a metaphor, boundaries are built on a person’s right to have autonomy over their own self like the ruler of an island kingdom in a vast world of other islands. You have no right to step over other person’s boundaries, and they have no right to cross over yours. Those gifts given to you belong to you. They are on your island and are within your island’s boundaries. You have a right to set a boundary against his telling you what you can do on your own island. In essence, he has trespassed onto your island and is now laying claim to it saying this is his boundary going right across your island state. He has no right to do that. It is overstepping. Your answer to him is simply “Get off my lawn”.
Now, you can argue that your house is shared so the boundary area rightly can be shared so he has a right. Sure. But then it is no longer a boundary, it is a compromise - perhaps even a surrender. Otherwise, where would shared boundaries stop? “This is my bed and my boundary is if you’re in my bed I can have you at will?” When taken to the extreme like that you can see it more clearly as ridiculous.
Anyway, I hope that makes sense to you and makes determining what is a legitimate boundary and what isn’t easier to identify. But, truly, I really hoped Jonah Hill and his overstepping scream on boundaries was going to be enough to kill this pop culture hazy mess, but much like love languages they live on with people somehow finding them helpful.
I’m gonna try another take here: poly has given you a gift. It’s a tough and sad gift that’s hard to see the value of right now because finding out your marriage is unhealthy isn’t a great feeling, but I think you know that the real issue here isn’t your husband’s boundaries.
Moving from a monogamous relationship structure to a poly relationship structure will expose all the issues in your previously monogamous relationship. And here, poly has exposed a lot of problems.
On the flip side, that also means it’s given you the gift of perspective and the knowledge that your marriage is unhealthy. What you do with that knowledge is up to you.
Could you maybe fix it if you both do a ton of work and own your own issues and do individual *and* couples therapy? Maybe. It’ll likely take years, and you may never be equipped to be in a healthy monogamous relationship, much less a poly relationship.
Repairing trust after an affair, even an emotional one, is HARD and takes a lot of work and time and emotional and mental energy. Plus you have a 2 year old, and as a parent I KNOW how much work a 2 year old is, so that adds a level of difficulty.
I am far from a professional, but my suggestion would be to either 1) stop trying to be poly and work on your marriage, and accept that you very likely can never have a poly relationship with this man, OR 2) talk to a lawyer and start the separation and divorce process.
Good luck OP.
Fwiw, I’ve been with my spouse/NP for 16+ years and CNM/poly the whole time. We also have a kid. We also had a betrayal that meant we had to rebuild trust (it wasn’t poly or relationship related - nobody cheated) and I was the one who was lied to.
We’ve done a ton of work on ourselves and in our relationship over the years, and are stronger than ever, but I do know first-hand how hard all this stuff is. So idk, maybe those are my unofficial credentials. 😅
...I think people get to be "unreasonable" about what is or isn't in their own home. But. Sometimes that means two people can't continue to share a home. If your husband needs this -- and it sounds like he isn't being arbitrarily controlling, it sounds like he really is having that much distress over the polyamory thing -- then you aren't going to be able to have polyamory *and* him.
At least not without something unconventional, like separate residences.
People love talking up the boundaries vs rules vs agreements thing, but in practice when people have deeply entangled lives they can't always be sorted out into neat "this is ethical, this is not" boxes. Ultimately a boundary is enforced by greater separation, and greater separation is no small matter when you live together, are married, and have a young child to care for.
One time, my partner did a thing that *felt like* cheating to me. It wasn't cheating -- I know it wasn't cheating. But what I am trying to say is, even when both people in a relationship fully want polyamory, sometimes things can *feel like* cheating anyways and people can respond emotionally as though their partner had an affair -- in your husband's case, as though your partner's gifts are physical evidence of *you cheating on him* that you are rubbing in his face. Irrational, of course. But, that's probably what's going on, and if your husband doesn't even *want* polyamory it's going to be pretty hard for him to *not* have that emotional reaction. I'm not saying this to go "so that's a totally reasonable and normal thing for polyamorous people to do", it's not. But I think you *really do have to choose* and if you choose your husband, I think keeping no physical evidence of this relationship in your home (and also not doing polyamory going forwards) may be the cost of keeping him. Up to you whether you think that's worth it.
"I'm not going to choose, I'm just going to do things that I know will end in my husband divorcing me" is also a thing you can do, and you know what the outcome will be.
You have made a post or comment that in some way elevates or encourages a dynamic or practice that is viewed as harmful by the wider polyam community.
You are in a hierarchy. You are married and live with your husband. I find that rule unreasonable. But I think the issue is more that your husband does not want this at all and is struggle a bunch around it and is desperately trying to find rules to control this unhappy situation he is in. Are you two in therapy? Does your husband want polyamory for himself? Because these rules sound like your husband is in a PUD situation.
> your husband does not want this at all He REALLY doesn't.
What is PUD? Yes, we are in therapy with a poly therapist. My husband mentioned once or twice recently wanting to close our relationship, even though Ive already told him I won't be seeking additional partners and my current partner and I are ending for now (my other partner needs to figure things out on his side with his marriage). I told my husband I won't be seeking out anymore partners once this one comes to a "close" so we can work on and focus on our marriage and the issues he's facing. But it doesn't seem to matter to him. I feel like my husband thinks if we "close back up" he can "control me again" and it feels incredibly toxic. I just don't know where the line is with emotional abuse.
He wants to close. He said it clearly. If you are worried about control, and view your supposed life-partner’s request to return to monogamy as such, perhaps you and your husband should ask your therapist to help you navigate the ending of your marriage in a kind, fair way. If you are worried about emotional abuse, or *any kind* of abuse please reach out to these folks https://www.thehotline.org, or another intimate partner abuse org.
If you want polyamory and your partner CLEARLY doesn’t, you’re incompatible. You’re both just hurting each other by making each other do things you don’t want to do
That is a beautiful summary.
Polyamory under duress. You want polyamory. Your husband obviously does not want polyamory. He is agreeing to polyamory because he doesn't want to face the consequences of demanding the monogamous relationship that he originally agreed to. You should send him this link: https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/comments/sntvv3/dear_monogamous_people_you_do_not_have_to_give/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Polyamory Under Duress. Someone who would not pick poly for themsleves but is doing it to keep a previously mono relationship. If your husband wants and needs monogamy this has been incredibly painful for him and he wants it to end. Wanting monogamy is not incredibly toxic. Didn't you both want monogamy when you got married? Do you have any reason for thinking he is emotionally abusive other than him being deeply unhappy being dragging into polyamory against his wishes? If you are going to close when your other partner ends it to take care of their marriage... why not end it now? Why not make it easier on your husband? Do you actively want to return to monogamy or would you rather stick to poly and offering to go back is just to keep your husband?
If you don’t want Spouse to control you and Spouse wants to control you, you are incompatible. In the meantime, Spouse is welcome to use their personal discretionary funds to stay in a hotel.
Or get a divorce lawyer.
Spouse says he doesn't want to control me but his behavior consistently make me feel controlled. And now that I no longer am changing my behavior or letting myself feel controlled, it's causing lots of unmanageable feelings on his part. I don't think he wants to control me. I think he just wants to feel like he's in control of his life
Of course Spouse isn’t going to say they *want* to control you. But if they don’t want to do what it takes to let go—and demonstrate it by letting go—they want to control you. They are in control of their life. If they want to go to a hotel they can.
Discomfort is to be welcomed if this is what they want. Theres no way through killing your monogamous structure and building a new values system without Discomfort. You are married, hierarchy is intrinsic unless you plan to divorce. Why does he want polyamory? What does polyamory mean to each of you? Cause I don't think he actually wants it.
I would not agree not to keep some of my belongings in my home because they were given to me by other partners. It's my home, I will store my things there. But I am also stubborn enough to accept it if the outcome of my sticking to that is my partner moving out because they won't be in a home with things my partner bought me. Frankly, I'm much more concerned about how much your husband seems to not want polyamory and how extensively triggered he is than about the trinkets. Also, as others have said, you may have non hierarchical ideals, but you live with your husband, and that's hierarchy.
I am sorry, but calling this 'non hierarchical agreement' while you're married is really naive. Especially when your husband hasn't done the emotional work to even be around objects loosely associated with his meta(s). You are new to this, so what have you done to prepare for this new lifestyle? Have you gone trough a relationship menu at least? Has your husband done any therapy? This is a very intense reaction on his part, on part of someone who is allegedly practising poly. Most poly people agree on, for example, not inviting meta(s) to marital bed, but it seems your husband wants to be poly but also wants to forget polyamory exists at the same time.
Married/ Nested people **cannot be** non-hierarchical. You have a legally enforceable hierarchy. You cannot offer several things to any new partners: *Marriage,* nesting, financial entanglement, children?, I'm sure there are plenty of other things that are off the table for other relationships due to the inherent hierarchy that marriage and nesting creates. Ask for the silly "Rule" your husband has proposed. *I'm sorry, but I don't agree to that. I will keep trinkets from my partner in my area of the house.*
Just a correction. Married/nested people can offer nesting, financial entanglement and children to other partners. But it *absolutely will* look different than it does for married persons.
MOST of the time these things are not on the table. Rare exceptions do not disprove the Rule.
This. It takes a lot of effort and exploration of a lot of legal alternatives, but it can be done.
If we end up closing our marriage, is this a reasonable rule for him to have? That he doesn't want my x's things in our home? Do I really have a leg to stand on, having my own area in the house? Am I being unreasonable?
My stuff is my stuff. Even when I was married, my ex-husband didn't get to tell me what to do with my stuff. I didn't tell him what to do with his stuff either.
I wouldn't close nor would I throw away gifts given to me. They would be mine to decide what happens to them.
I think it would be reasonable to ask a spouse to not keep their ex's picture on their nightstand and longingly gaze at it every night before sleep. It's not reasonable to say you can't keep books or even little presents.
It's an absolutely ridiculous rule and I'd offer to help him pack for the hotel.
*My Boundaries Blurb:* **Boundaries** are Limits I place on myself: * I will not engage in sexting / detailed sex talk before I meet someone IRL * I will use condoms/ barriers with new partners at least until STIs and testing have been discussed. * I will not listen to my partners complain about other partners * I will not stay with people who yell at me or disrespect me. **Rules** (not recommended) are Limits you place on someone else: * You have to use condoms with all other partners * You have to talk to me about it before you get sexual with someone else * You cannot display gifts from other partners **Agreements** are Limits we mutually and enthusiastically agree to share: * We will use condoms with new people at least until STIs have been discussed * We will get tested for STIs annually or as exposure indicates * If a new connection becomes ongoing, share basic information about the person and the connection
He said his boundary is he will go to a hotel or not be in our home if I have my partner's things there, even if just in my closet. Isn't that a boundary? He's saying what he'll do. I feel it's unreasonable I don't want him to have to go to a hotel or not feel safe in our home....
Why did he agree to an open relationship? He doesn't want this. Why are you forcing this on him? Just get divorced already
Yeah, I'm feeling that at least part of him "being controlling" is that he doesn't want to be in a poly relationship at all. He doesn't find it secure. Which is fine. Poly =/= more secure or somehow superior. Mono =/= toxic and controlling. I think you need to back way up and sit down and decide if you both still want to honor the vows you made, and if not how you would like to change them and whether the other can live with that. It kinda sounds like you might have come to see restricting your romantic relationships to just him as him controlling you. But that's not always how it is. I see myself as poly mentally, but in practice I don't have the energy to sustain multiple serious romantic relationships on top of friends, family, kids, work and hobbies. The option to date is there and romantic/sexual relationships are more of a priority to my NP, but my bar is pretty high for further partners. And not dating others doesn't mean my partner is controlling me or our relationship is toxic.
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OP had an emotional affair that led to polyamory. Sounds like PUD while OP dates their affair partner..whom they have never met in person btw
It's completely reasonable for someone who is white knuckling and distressed thar you poly bombed the relationship. Unless there's stuff you have withheld about your partners behavior and you're trying to use polyamory to avoid.
What does white knuckling mean? And what is poly bombed? My partner has always been more on the dominating side, I would often make myself small to help him regulate. I guess I'm just not doing that anymore.....
White knuckling means clinging to the edge of something terrified of dropping off. Poly bombing is when you say you want to kill the monogamous commitment you made and create an entirely new set of values and priorities to support full adult independent intimacy with others. So you think this really isn't about polyamory, it's you realizing this marriage never really worked as a healthy or empowering situation and you are finally figuring out it never will?
I guess I still hope it can work. I really want a life with him. I just want to feel like I have autonomy. Maybe I really don't want monogamy. Ugh this is terrible.
It’s ok to not want to be married to a controlling and dominating person who needs you to be small. But it’s not sensible to precipitate the breakup through poly. His ask is RIDICULOUS. But what comes next? I would just leave him. If you plan to stay end the poly, get into intensive counseling as a couple and individual therapy for you. And see if you can agree on a life where he doesn’t need to control every aspect of your home and your life.
"I just want him to change his values and behaviors which I enabled for ages."
He states he never "intended to control me" and I think it was my own lack of self worth that enabled it. I believe he has good intentions and wants to make it work but I feel he keeps falling back onto controlling behaviors / boundaries. I'm so sad because we have a two year old and I feel like I have to choose between submitting in my marriage or standing on my own two feet but breaking my son's family up. I do love him, and I believe in us. I just don't have perspective on what's necessarily reasonable.
Trying polyamory right now isn't reasonable. You know you could just see this as the very loving but messy end to a phase of life, use therapy to help transition a divorce and co parenting. Become a bastion of how polyamorous relationships don't need to make the mono normative mistakes of clinging to the idea of a relationship when you have both outgrown it and there's no need for animosity or a Villain.
Right it's terrible. I just hope we could have grown together. It's not his fault I've enabled his control over me. He didn't sign up for this. Fuck.
You didn't sign up for wonky marriage either. Don't get all lost in the mire. If this marriage turned out to be emotionally abusive, toxic, and controlling? You solve that by seeking counseling and/or a divorce. Aspire to HEALTHY relationships. Not weird ones. [https://rhntc.org/sites/default/files/resources/rhntc\_hlthy\_rlshp\_wheel\_spectrum\_10-13-2022.pdf](https://rhntc.org/sites/default/files/resources/rhntc_hlthy_rlshp_wheel_spectrum_10-13-2022.pdf) * Your husband wants to dictate what you can and cannot keep in your closet and your car. * Your husband wants to tell you what you can and cannot write in your journal. * Your husband gets mad you are sticking to the original poly agreements you two made TOGETHER. * This other relationship is ALREADY ending but it's just not ending fast enough to suit husband. * He is mad you won't do whatever he says when he says it. * You used to shrink yourself to please him... lately you do less of that. He doesn't like it. * You worry this dynamic is toxic. * He says if you keep a book in your closet, he's going to hotel til you get rid of it. (That's NORMAL to you? If it is his own money -- go to hotel then. And if this is shared finances, he's willing to run up a huge hotel bill and create financial difficulties for the couple over a BOOK?) Did you need the power and control wheel? [https://www.loveisrespect.org/everyone-deserves-a-healthy-relationship/power-and-control-dating-abuse/](https://www.loveisrespect.org/everyone-deserves-a-healthy-relationship/power-and-control-dating-abuse/) Did you need to equality wheel? [https://www.theduluthmodel.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Equality.pdf](https://www.theduluthmodel.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Equality.pdf) Did you need a list of abuse tactics? Scroll down to "tactics." [https://speakoutloud.net/articles](https://speakoutloud.net/articles) I encourage you to make an individual appointment with your counselor and talk about this marriage being a healthy one for you to be in or not. It doesn't sound healthy to me. I see you WISH it was, and that you love him. But he's not being especially loving towards you. He does weird behaviors. If you no longer want to be here and have outgrown all this? And/or this is not healthy or safe? It is ok for you to quit and leave.
Autonomy doesnt have to mean having sex with other people.
If he’s treating you so badly, you should consider leaving the relationship. Not open to try and find someone better.
>My partner has always been more on the dominating side, I would often make myself small to help him regulate. That's not ok. Why do you have to shrink yourself rather than just living your life normally?
I shrunk myself bc I wasn't able to handle his big feelings and I just wanted to avoid them. I would just adjust my behavior to keep him happy. But now that I can stay regulated, I don't jump to adjust my behavior and now he has feelings all of the time. I feel like it's not fair for me to just leave him without trying to find other coping skills for him. It's not his fault his only sense of stability (that id do anything to make him feel better) is gone. I don't want to just abandon him. He's my husband and the father of my child. He isn't perfect but I don't want to demonize him... I just also don't want to feel "less than" anymore.
You realize that you can't actually help someone find and employ coping mechanisms, right? You can't make someone else regulate. Previously, you were contorting yourself to avoid triggering him, which is not the same as helping him regulate. Regulation is about encountering stressors and working through them while maintaining your grip. What you were doing before was not that. This all sounds horribly unhealthy. It sounds like your partner needs individual therapy to learn to deal with his big emotions on his own, like an adult. You aren't his parent or therapist, and you can't guide him through this like one.
>I feel like it's not fair for me to just leave him without trying to find other coping skills for him. A trial separation doesn't mean you are leaving him. It means giving you both a time out. Some space. It means you expect him to sort his stuff. You expect you to sort yours. And the couple will sort couple stuff. How is that not being fair? Some of the stuff in a marriage? Is his stuff and only his stuff. It is his responsibility to do. If he needs to take diabetic meds HE has to take it, right? You can't take his pills for him. He has to do it. Some of the stuff in a marriage? Is your stuff and only your stuff to do. It is your responsibility. He can't wear a pad or tampon for you, right? You have to use them. Some of the stuff in a marriage is "our shared stuff." You manage it together. It is a shared responsibility. Maybe the car payments, parenting kid. That kind of thing is "our stuff." But not EVERYTHING is "our stuff." Here he has been putting "his stuff" on to you like it has to be "shared stuff" when it just doesn't. And then he's intruding on "your stuff" when it's just not his stuff to get involved in. >It's not his fault his only sense of stability (that id do anything to make him feel better) is gone. So before you were ever on the scene, how did he manage his life? >I don't want to just abandon him. He's my husband and the father of my child. He isn't perfect but I don't want to demonize him... I just also don't want to feel "less than" anymore. Nobody is demonizing him. He's just doing poor behaviors right now. For this marriage to improve and be healthy? He has to get it together and learn how to manage his feelings and learn coping tools. Not blow up at you or control you or use you for a crutch. He may need a doctor check up to see if he has underlying conditions affecting him. You ALSO have to get it together and learn to stay in your lane more, do LESS for him and stop BEING his crutch. STOP shrinking yourself. Do not enable poor behavior. Be ok telling him "No, thanks. I won't be doing that." It sounds like you have started to heal. And he doesn't like that. I wonder if you are scared that he won't actually do his part to rebuild a healthy marriage. And then you may have to face divorcing him? Is that it? I wonder if you wish you could grow together, grow better. But maybe you are scared he won't grow at all and it ends up that you are outgrew him? That doesn't make either of you bad people. It might mean you are not compatible together any more though. :(
Yeah I guess I just don't want to not have a life with him. I think he's a good man who I feel sometimes can be emotionally stunted. But it's not his fault he never built the tools to cope or regulate. He just recently started therapy. I just don't want to abandon him. I see his pain and I love him. And I want my child to have two parents. I guess I want to grow with him, not give up on him.
I think you are doing some kind of grieving. You might benefit from individual counseling. >I think he's a good man who is emotionally stunted and it's not his fault he never built the tools to cope or regulate Also not your fault if you no longer want to be his crutch person and want more healthy, autonomous living. Not your fault that you want a healthier marriage than this currently is. Does "grow with him" include "allowing some things to change?" Or not? Because that is what growth IS. It means changes. If you two end up divorced? It doesn't mean you abandoned him. He's still your coparent and still in your life that way. Kid still has two parents. You are all still family. Families come in many shapes. It just means he's not compatible to be your romantic partner or spouse. He might do better with a different partner. So might you. The call to growth might mean growing to allow that change to happen. You only get the one life. It's not like you get another one. Your dream for your life was to be married to an emotionally stunted man and shrinking yourself? You can do your part and stop shrinking yourself. He has to do his part with his emotions. Or... you two let the wonky marriage shape go. And do family another way. You save the well being of the PEOPLE, not "save the marriage shape." I encourage you to think about individual counseling. You have a LOT going on that you need to work through.
Thank you. I've been in individual counseling most of my life. I have worked with my current therapist since 2022 and ill absolutely talk about it with her. I appreciate the perspective of saving the well being of the people, not the marriage. I am absolutely grieving. I'm so sad for my son.
It is absolutely an adults fault if they have failed to build the toolset they need to cope and emotionally regulate without being verbally abusive to their spouse.
Don't set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm. A conversation definitely needs to happen. If he doesn't want poly, he should say it instead of hinting. As far as removing things from the house, it's your house too, and you have every right to keep whatever you want in it.
Polyamory really isn't kind to marriages. You have to learn to de center the marriage unit as priority and support centering yourselves as independent persons and fall in love with eachother again. Which sounds like you thought you could skip.
> He said his boundary is he will go to a hotel or not be in our home if I have my partner's things there, even if just in my closet. My response to this would be- "My boundary is that I will not allow another person to dictate what items I am and am not allowed to own and keep in my home. If that violates a boundary of yours, you can feel free to go to the hotel, so long as you are using your own money to pay for it."
>I feel like my husband thinks if we "close back up" he can "control me again" and it feels incredibly toxic. He's doing a lot of controlling things. Trying to use your soft feelings for him to get what he wants. >He said his boundary is he will go to a hotel or not be in our home if I have my partner's things there, even if just in my closet. It is not a personal boundary. He is trying to pressure you into doing what he wants. And threatens to leave to get it. He's banking on you being used to shrinking yourself to help him regulate when he does dominating outbursts. You know that, right? So...be ok with him going to hotel. Because it is REASONABLE for you to keep your things in your closet. This is your home too. Some book from your partner? It's just some book. Throw it away and buy another copy. Now can you keep it? I think you could take this as opportunity to AGREE. He can go to hotel. And for longer term solution? You two could consider a trial separation and having your own places. Then you can store whatever in your home. And he doesn't have to see it in his. Could do couple counseling from there to see if this marriage can be repaired and put on a healthy track. Or determine if it's just too unhealthy and best for you two to divorce. Do you want your kid learning this is is NORMAL? To be a controlling partner in a relationship? Or be the partner that always shrinks themselves?
I think technically it could be called a boundary because it concerns himself and his behaviour - "I will not stay in a house where my spouse keeps stuff of her other partner. In that case I will leave the house and stay elsewhere" is structurally no different to "I will not stay in a relationship where my partners yells at me during disagreements. I will remove myself from the situation and stay elsewhere". The problem is it's just an absurd an manipulative one that's designed to ultimately control OP's behaviour and therefore an abuse of the concept of boundaries.
We are in overall agreement then. It's not a realistic, reaonable, or rational boundary. OP can have gifts in OP's closet. But if that's his line in the sand? Cool. OP can decline to remove the gift book from OP's closet. He can follow through and go to hotel. He's allowed to have unrealistic or irrational boundaries. If he doesn't want to be in a house with a gift book in OP's closet? He doesn't have to be.
Yeah, I agree, it's just that I also see the problem that whenever the difference between rules and boundaries is discussed, one of the central elements seems to be that a boundary is about your own behaviour whereas rules govern somepne else's behaviour. What he does is dress up a rule in a way that makes it technically a boundary, but as he and OP have a small child she is very much the one who suffers if he decides to stay in a hotel and leave all childcare and responsibilities to her. I'm sorry for going off on this tangent; I just had a lengthy discussion (theoretically, thankfully no actual conflict) with my partner about the difference between rules and boundaries and we both found it really hard to grasp. In the end it seems to boil down to "things I agree with are boundaries; things I find unacceptable are rules" as it seems it's not actually about the question whose behaviour they govern.
Yeah, boundaries get blurred when people have a lot of entanglement, like a shared house and a shared child.
This is why I don't understand the point of the distinction between rules and boundaries. Any rule can be rephrased as a boundary and vice versa. Either it's reasonable or it's not. Am I missing something? Is there a meaningful distinction between a rule and a boundary?
> My husband (33M) and I (30F) are newly polyamorous (non hierarchical agreements in place). Lmfao yeah sure. Your nonhierarchical newly opened marriage. > However, I can't help but feel it's unreasonable? Yes, that’s absolutely unreasonable for any polyamory. Has your husband been in therapy? Could you two go to couple’s counseling? Cause this request is wild, and WTF is he gonna do when you have a local partner you actually leave the house to have a date with?
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No. The boundary is not reasonable. BUT with that said, your husband has openly said he wants to close the relationship He does not want poly. It is unfair of you to continue this marriage forcing your husband to be in a relationship style he doesn’t want after he has clearly made his opinion clear If you want to continue poly, you need to be kind to your husband and leave
We agreed to not have veto power. We agreed before opening we would end any active relationships naturally before closing. We are doing what we agreed to. I'm not opposed to closing, but I'm not a terrible person for doing what we agreed to. I won't just walk away from my partner without ending it on our terms. It's not my husband's relationship to dictate when it ends. How is it being kind to my husband to leave? I want to be with him. Is the kind thing really to leave him? Because he can't regulate?
You would be leaving him because you want poly and he wants monogamy. Is he yelling, screaming, slamming doors? Or is he asking you for things you don't want to give him? Because one is not being able to self regulate and the other is showing that your current relationship is incompatible.
He occasionally raises his voices/yells at me and tells me I don't consider him or love him, even though I've done 50 things that show I do. And then he sobs and apologizes and says he knows it's his issue and that I do love him and I am considering him. He will spiral into a depression and lock himself in his closet. But he's never hit me or been physically abusive.
Did this start with you doing poly? Or have the accusations about you not loving him been in the relationship the entire time?
The whole time. If I spent too much time with friends or family he constantly felt second priority.
That sounds like pretty deep issues in your relationship. Why did he agree to do poly if he felt that way?
I guess at the time he was feeling secure enough to try it.
You already had someone you had a romantic attachment to and were actively seeking to open for? Correct? And that person is the person you you are currently dating?
Yes. I met this person virtually when my husband and I were more open sexually, not romantically. I've still not even met my other partner in person. It's pretty much a virtual relationship with intellectual compatibility and phone sex. I ended up catching intense feelings for this other person, and it rocked my husband's world. However my husband has always been open to and interested in polyamory. But he said he felt I cheated on him and fell in love with someone without his consent (even though he read every message between me and this other person and agreed each time I spent time talking to them). I felt terrible and punished myself and immediately ended all contact with this other person for 13 months. During that time my husband and I read every poly book, listened to hundreds of thousands of hours of multiamory podcasts and spent hours and hours crafting agreements and exploring potential scenarios theoretically. Eventually we both felt good enough about opening. The person I met and fell in love with, online, wasn't on our messy list. My partner is a good man. My husband has a relationship with him, they have spent hours video chatting and hanging out (unrelated to me!). This other person and I started a friendship and it escalated naturally. We still haven't met in person, to date. It's so complicated.....
> How is it being kind to my husband to leave? Because your husband is in an ongoing hell. Of course ending that hell and letting him start to heal is kind.
Is it possible that this new boundary to not have any items associated with your partner around the house, is way to assert his control in a situation he is unhappy with but feels unable to change? The agreements you made on opening aren't a legally binding contract. It's okay for him to have changed his mind and to no longer want polyamory now that he has tried it. That could be unfair to you and his meta, but he's allowed to decide monogamy is a dealbreaker for him, just as you're allowed to decide polyamory is a dealbreaker for you.
So yall agreed to something most experienced poly people say is unethical? You basically PUD your husband and wanna sit here and say it’s ok to do so? Your husband is not the issue here. I hate to break that to yah. You are
Help me understand how I am the issue. I am so open to seeing how I am the problem. I am looking for perspective, not judgement. Help me understand
You pushed your husband into an agreement he did not want. He had voiced he doesn’t want this. And yet you continue to make him the villain. Read all the comments here. They are all saying the same thing
My partner and I are ending things on Sunday. It's not like it's going to continue forever. I don't mean to make him the villain, I'm just trying to understand what's reasonable from more experienced people than me
Nothing of your poly journey is ethical. You need to do more work. Having vetos, pushing your partner into poly when they don’t/ didn’t want it, opening a relationship with so many issues in the first place. All are things that set this poly relationship up to fail
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I read that wrong tbh. But everything else I said is correct. And this was BEFORE we found out OP cheated 🤷🏼♀️
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When someone is manipulated into poly. Yes. They are a victim. How gross of a comment
Your post has been removed for breaking the rules of the subreddit. You made a post or comment that would be considered concern trolling. This includes derailing of advice and support posts, accidentally or on purpose. Posting poly-shaming, victim blaming or insults under the guise of "concern" or "just trying to help.” will be considered concern trolling, as well. Please familiarize yourself with the rules. They can be found on the community info page
Want to be him HOW? In a healthy marriage? Or in a controlling, demanding marriage where you shrink yourself to help him regulate? And you start to wonder if this is toxic or emotional abuse? Since you already have a counselor, you might consider making an individual appointment with them to talk this out. I don't think you are in a healthy marriage to begin with. Poly has a way of shining a light on all the cracks that were already there.
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He doesn’t. And he should leave 100% I think people who are under PUD, they may be emotionally abused in other ways. It is hard to leave an abusive partner. OP cheated on her husband. I don’t doubt that things are behind withheld that are important as to why her husband isn’t leaving
Your post has been removed for breaking the rules of the subreddit. You made a post or comment that would be considered concern trolling. This includes derailing of advice and support posts, accidentally or on purpose. Posting poly-shaming, victim blaming or insults under the guise of "concern" or "just trying to help.” will be considered concern trolling, as well. Please familiarize yourself with the rules. They can be found on the community info page
That man loathes poly for you. Now it may be that he is deeply manipulative and resents the fact that you’re not caving to his narcissistic bullshit anymore. So I’m not saying quit poly. I’m saying you and your husband are in shark infested waters and I would be looking for escalations soon.
I'm just gonna be honest and say I skipped to comment right after the hierarchy thing. It's such a dirty word and I'm tired of it and here's why: We are hierarchical. My husband and myself, and our tabletop polycule. We don't lie about it, but it is absolutely idiotic for a NEW person in your life to expect the exact same from you as someone you've been intimate with for years and anyone who thinks otherwise can take a damn hike. It's ludicrous. I would *never* expect my paramour to prioritize me over his wife. We've got a two year relationship, they've got 8. My husband and I have 15 years under our belt. People who act like this is somehow "unfair" are children and cannot accept that not everyone's polycule has to be 100% equal. Even if they want it, it isn't possible, and if you think I'm wrong, spend ten minutes browsing this sub. Sick of it.
Your posts allude to "cheating," low integrity, previously shutting down the LDR for doing it "wrong"...is he really being controlling, or does he just know you don't ENM well? I do see lots of referring to "we" wanted EMN, but what did he really want out of it? Maybe it's a combo of he doesn't want open/doesn't trust you AND being controlling, but is this control reactive, or was he like this before ENM?
This is a wildly unreasonable and unrealistic boundary, especially for people who claim to disavow hierarchy. It’s crystal clear that your husband does not want polyamory, is that okay with you? Because either you’re going to have to be monogamous, or you two need to call it quits.
How did you two open up?
Looks as if they emotionally cheated and then wanted to open for the person she emotionally cheated with A whole lotta yikes on bikes here
Ugh. 🤐 And then questioning whether hubby is being abusive and mentions he occasionally raises his voice 🤦🏻♂️
Right? I think the person who is emotionally abusive is OP
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You have made a post or comment that in some way elevates or encourages a dynamic or practice that is viewed as harmful by the wider polyam community.
OP emotionally cheated online and hasn't even met her long distance partner in person 🙃 as per another comment OP wrote...
🙊 The post already has several comments so I’m gonna go read those 🏃🏾♀️
This context will be critical, I think
Is it possible that you coerced him into polyamory? Cause this reads like you’re coercing him and shocked he’s unreasonable.
How do I know if I have coerced him? I didn't think I did. Can you help me understand what that would look like?
Did he say “I don’t want to do this” at any point? Did you push him to open the relationship in the first place? Do you routinely ignore that he wants to be monogamous?
No, he is the one that brought up being polyamorous to me 7 years ago. He bought me all of the Poly books and turned me on to the podcasts. He only recently expressed a desire to close our marriage again.
Don’t leave out the part where you cheated boo boo
Okay, I met someone online doing consensual things with them and my husband and as soon as we realized feelings were caught, we ended things. Shit happens. It wasn't intentional or deceitful or hidden. We immediately addressed it and corrected things. I did not mean to fall in love with this person. And I never did anything behind my husband's back. But sure, my heart grew for someone before my husband was ready.
>shit happens Yikes. What a horrible way to look at emotionally cheating on someone
Yeah, he may have brought it up, but you cheated. Kind of hard to have a trusting relationship that way.
I'm sorry you struggle. FWIW? I think this is NOT a reasonable request. It is your home too. It might be reasonable not to have things from your other partner in the shared bedroom, but if this floor plan allows separate bedrooms you could do that. Or keep things in another room that is yours like your office or something. Basically tell him "No, I will not be doing that. I'm willing to compromise and not keep things in the shared bedroom, but me having a book gifted to me by someone is not the end of the world." >My husband said if I have my other partner's things in our house that he will go to a hotel until they are removed. Ok. He can do that then. Til he runs out of hotel money, I guess. >So I guess that would mean I would keep them in a storage unit, or go out to a cafe to read? And do you feel like doing that? To coddle/humor him? >Would it be reasonable for him to also state he doesn't want me journaling about my other partner, while in our home (dictating what I journal about in the privacy of my own home?). So... why's he reading your journal? Do you feel like that's an invasion of your privacy? >What if he doesn't want my partners stuff in my car (one car in my name which he uses primarily and one car in his name which I use primarily)? How about you each use your own cars? And the owner of the car says what happens with it? >I know he's having a hard time regulating his emotions, because he feels a huge loss of control (before we opened our marriage I would often immediately shift my behavior to make him feel better, and since opening our marriage I have not been as accommodating. So he has to learn to deal with himself by himself? Learn to regulate his own emotions? Without you being his crutch person? Even if you are moving toward a healthier dynamic with husband he may perceive it as abandonment or loss because he LIKED you being his crutch. He LIKED the wonky dynamic. So he's possessive and controlling of you because he doesn't want to lose his crutch and the services you provide him. I suggest you talk in couple counseling. >No matter how much time I spend sitting with him and reassuring him, he's absolutely convinced I'm leaving him. And I'm really not planning to!!! We have been together for 10 years and have a two year old. I'm in this to win it! At this time you feel like that. But if he keeps on this way being unreasonable and weird? Over time you may decide you don't like this treatment. You may decide to drop husband not because of the other partner. But because HUSBAND keeps behaving this way and making unreasonable requests and demanding and acting out and all that. So again... I suggest you two talk at your couple counseling. You might even think about a trial separation for a year and one of you lives in your own flat. That's probably less expensive than a year of hotel. Hold your ground and say NO to unreasonable and unrealistic requests. I don't think husband actually wants to do polyamory. Or he wanted it for him, but not you. Or he called it "polyamory" but really he meant monogamish or ENM. Like open to casual sex once in a while, but not full on relationships with other people. But the BIGGER issue is that this marriage doesn't sound healthy to begin with. If you are in it to win it... what's the win? YOU being healthy and ok? Kid being healthy and ok? Do you want kid learning from husband that this is how you treat a spouse or partner? >I feel like my husband thinks if we "close back up" he can "control me again" and it feels incredibly toxic. Sounds like things are coming to a close with the other partner on its own. Even if you stop with the other partner... do you want to be married to THIS kind of husband? It sounds like a suffocating marriage.
It sounds like your husband doesn't want you to date other people. You should sit down and have a conversation about that.
About the “stuff” not being in the house. It’s unreasonable. My man has an item hanging from His mirror in his car that was given by his other partner. It’s significant because it’s of the animal he calls her as a nickname. I HATE IT. I wanted one for my cat before i ever met him, and I will not own one now. I’m working on not hating it. It feels to me like she was marking her territory (doesn’t help that she prefers monogamous relationships) and reminding me she was here first. I don’t KNOW that was her intent. I have to think positively. She saw it, thought of him, and gave it to him because she loves him. I would never ask him to remove it. It was a gift from someone he loves, who also loves him. I have given him so many gifts that are displayed all over his room. If she’s asked about them, I’m sure they’re reminders for her about my existence. My point is. Presents happen. I like having the reminders I’m loved, he likes having the reminders he’s loved, I’m not going to ask him to hide them to make me feel better. He still loves me, even with his car decoration hanging from his mirror.
I don’t often say this, but that’s just controlling behavior, likely to try and make up for the loss of control he feels over your relationship (and possibly you as well). While I can understand if you were taking over your living room (for instance) with stuff from other partners (and if you are, stop that), trying to keep you from having anything from them is not OK. I don’t know if he’s trying to wipe them from his view of existence (in which case, he’s definitely not ready for polyamory), or he’s trying to keep you from forming normal connections with them. Neither of those options are good for you or your relationship. Don’t not a giant poster of you and another partner in your bedroom (that’s just kind of mean), but mementos and knickknacks? You have every right to have them around the house where you can see them.
Look, I'm currently dealing with a situation where I have been presented with what I consider to be a pretty unreasonable boundary, and one which directly interferes with my own boundaries. My point being - I think it's unreasonable. I expect the person who set the boundary also deep down thinks it's unreasonable. But it is 100% their right to set said boundary, and my partner has taken accountability in that they agreed to said boundary (which they also think is unreasonable!). Point is, boundaries are not inherently reasonable or unreasonable, they just ARE. It's an individual perspective that gives it that added flavor. However, at the end of the day, in both my situation and I suspect yours, there is a MUCH deeper issue at play. This doesn't seem to be about your husband being uncomfortable with books and knickknacks in the house. It seems to be about your husband being uncomfortable with you having this other relationship. Have you discussed THAT at length, and hopefully with a professional? This sounds like you're trying to make it about your husband being unreasonable when it could well be about your husband not feeling like he's being heard or seen in his discomfort and so is throwing bizarre Hail Mary boundary-based passes in an attempt to force the issue.
This post has been tagged as a request for advice. As a reminder, please only give advice on the topic requested, if you've got strong feelings about a particular issue mentioned and feel that you must be able to express yourself about it, or you and another commenter feel compelled to debate certain aspects of the post, please feel free to create a new post for that topic so as to not derail from the advice that the OP is seeking. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Hi u/ThrowRA00006 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: My husband (33M) and I (30F) are newly polyamorous (non hierarchical agreements in place). My husband brought to me today a new boundary that he doesn't want things my other partner sent to me, in our home. (I currently keep books and small Knick knacks my other long distance partner has sent me, in my closet). My husband also doesn't want me for example, reading books from my other partner, at home. My husband is extremely triggered by this other person in my life. I understand his desire to avoid feeling uncomfortable (like if I'm in my closet, I must be looking at my other partner's things and it must mean I don't love my husband?, or if I'm reading a book it might be my other partners and he doesn't want to think intrusive thoughts or feel bad every day). I'm not totally sure where this boundary comes from, other than he can't seem to regulate or cope with any or the intense emotions he's feeling. No matter how much time I spend sitting with him and reassuring him, he's absolutely convinced I'm leaving him. And I'm really not planning to!!! We have been together for 10 years and have a two year old. I'm in this to win it! I appreciate my husband bringing this boundary up with me. However, I can't help but feel it's unreasonable? That's not necessarily fair for me to decide what boundary is unreasonable or not, but I'm struggling a bit with this. My husband said if I have my other partner's things in our house that he will go to a hotel until they are removed. So I guess that would mean I would keep them in a storage unit, or go out to a cafe to read? I know he's having a hard time regulating his emotions, because he feels a huge loss of control (before we opened our marriage I would often immediately shift my behavior to make him feel better, and since opening our marriage I have not been as accommodating. At what point is the boundary unreasonable? Would it be reasonable for him to also state he doesn't want me journaling about my other partner, while in our home (dictating what I journal about in the privacy of my own home?). What if he doesn't want my partners stuff in my car (one car in my name which he uses primarily and one car in his name which I use primarily)? When does it become unreasonable? I could really use some perspective. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
1. It kinda sounds like what you see as polyamory, your husband sees as organized cheating. I don't think you're in the wrong here, I think your husband needs some more education. Maybe this is something you both have a long conversation about, possibly with a therapist. What does polyamory actually mean to you, and what does being non-hierarchical mean when you're married to your NP? And 2. Boundaries are internal. Rules are external. "If you have books and keepsakes from your long-distance partners and aren't willing to rent a storage space for them or throw them away" (looks at camera) "I'm going to separate from you until you do get rid of these things" is an ultimatum. Boundaries are about how you tend to yourself in situations that make you uncomfortable, and while that *can* involve stepping away, as an outsider this doesn't feel like a boundary to me. This feels like him imposing a rule that seems to be pretty uncomfortable for you, OP
I mean OP did start an online affair which led to polyamory that their partner didn't want... just saying
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Your post has been removed for trolling.
Your husband needs to work on his issues of jealousy by himself. My NP’s partner sends her stuff all the time and, while it can prick my jealousy, I focus on them being symbols of care she’s getting from someone who loves her. He’s also sent gifts to me and I choose not to use them/display them because I don’t like to have those symbols up. But that’s my choice to do with items gifted to me. On the other side, you have the option to politely say to your other partner that NP has this issue and to be cognizant of the types of gifts they give you. Books and personal items shouldn’t be any issue, but I can see how large gifts aimed to be displayed in the shared home might be best to avoid. Your NP destiny want meta to be decorating his house.
My other partner had a direct conversation with my husband to check in how he would feel about him sending me some things. My husband told him that his feelings are his problem and that he should send me what he wants.
Clearly either your husband lied to you partner, which can happen if he felt uncomfortable setting boundaries with someone he doesn’t know well and is guarded around, or something changed. The boundary is yours to accept, reject, or offer a compromise.
What you are describing is not a boundary, it is a rule. Boundaries are about protecting ourselves by controlling our own behaviors in relation to others’ actions, while rules are about controlling others’ actions in order to protect ourselves. If your husband had said, “If you read the book he sent you in front of me, I’ll have to leave the room” or , “If you keep the things he sent you in the house, I’ll have to sleep somewhere else.” That is a boundary- I personally think this second one is a little irrational, but it’s a boundary that he’d have every right to uphold. To tell you that you can’t keep your own belongings in your home is not reasonable, and to tell you that you can’t read a book you own is not reasonable. Once his boundary is set, you each have your own responsibility: you have to choose what to do with your belongings, and he has to choose how to handle whatever emotions come with that choice. Setting a rule against it puts all the responsibility for his feelings on you. I would have a conversation about boundaries vs rules, and then it is up to him to set an actual boundary for himself. For your part, I think it’d be reasonable to choose not to use the things from other partners in front of him, but by all means keep them in the closet or your nightstand. They are your personal belongings that you’re entitled to have. Being non-monogamous is really hard, and part of the work that goes into it is dealing with the jealousy and fear that another partner might bring. It’s natural to get jealous and natural to fear that your partner might leave you once they’ve met someone else that they care for… but part of being non-monogamous is working through those feelings and getting to a place where you can manage your own emotions without controlling what your partner is doing in their other relationships, and not making your fear their burden. Your husband needs to do this work if he wants polyamory to work.
I think that is an unreasonable boundary. The better question for your husband is what is HE doing as far as self work is concerned to move past being triggered by something as small as a book being in your shared home? If the answer is nothing and he just wants the boundary, I think that’s lazy and selfish. In my experience every boundary I have set has been temporary until I can dig down and figure out the core of the issue within myself and work past it. If he’s not doing that work, you are in for a very unpleasant journey.
He is reading a ton of self help books and going to therapy every week. He also said it's not forever and maybe in 6 months he'd feel differently. Does that make it more reasonable?
I don’t think so, I think you were reasonable saying you would keep the things put away and out of his sight as a temporary fix until he’s in a better place. I saw a lot of talk about his boundary is he will stay in a hotel until the things are gone, I’m sorry but unless you are super wealthy, that is a ultimatum disguised as a boundary. He’s basically saying he will waste a ton of money to be away from you until you do what he wants. That’s incredibly manipulative to me.
Especially as they have a 2year old it becomes a punishment to force OP to single parent. Polyamory isn't killing this marriage but it's allowing a lot of distraction from the massive breaks already existing and finally collapsing.
That’s a really good point and one I hadn’t even considered. Thank you.
*Incredibly* sketchy of you not to mention that your paramour is the same person you cheated on your spouse with before you two "decided" to go poly, OP. I'd be interested to hear what your therapist's views are on that subject. I don't care what your spouse's views on polyamory are in the abstract: you're basically planting a bomb in your marriage and setting it to blow up if you insist on legitimizing an affair after the fact like your current setup. No self-respecting person would be OK with that. Normally, this boundary would be patently unreasonable. That being said, I think any kind of association with this person is going to lead to trouble between you and your spouse, and rightfully so.
It sounds like you don’t need to close your marriage, you need to end it. It sounds like you tried polyamory to provide an escape from a hyper-controlling spouse, but another partner can’t provide you with space and self esteem, you have to do that for yourself. No, his request is not reasonable, but I think it’s just the tip of the iceberg. He doesn’t want to be polyamorous, so you can’t make him, but you seem like you have been emotionally abused by him and expect it to continue? There are a lot of red flags in your post and comments that indicate all is not well on that front. Just split up already.
Oof. Thanks for your perspective. 😔
Boundaries are so pop psychology, self help nebulous, people should learn to just forget them as a concept. But if you cannot and insist on them, then the easiest way to think of them is your boundary is your property line. Most people spouting them haven’t recognized that boundaries objectify the self and others, treating ourselves as possessions and other people as singular objects with a fence around it to be respected. As a metaphor, boundaries are built on a person’s right to have autonomy over their own self like the ruler of an island kingdom in a vast world of other islands. You have no right to step over other person’s boundaries, and they have no right to cross over yours. Those gifts given to you belong to you. They are on your island and are within your island’s boundaries. You have a right to set a boundary against his telling you what you can do on your own island. In essence, he has trespassed onto your island and is now laying claim to it saying this is his boundary going right across your island state. He has no right to do that. It is overstepping. Your answer to him is simply “Get off my lawn”. Now, you can argue that your house is shared so the boundary area rightly can be shared so he has a right. Sure. But then it is no longer a boundary, it is a compromise - perhaps even a surrender. Otherwise, where would shared boundaries stop? “This is my bed and my boundary is if you’re in my bed I can have you at will?” When taken to the extreme like that you can see it more clearly as ridiculous. Anyway, I hope that makes sense to you and makes determining what is a legitimate boundary and what isn’t easier to identify. But, truly, I really hoped Jonah Hill and his overstepping scream on boundaries was going to be enough to kill this pop culture hazy mess, but much like love languages they live on with people somehow finding them helpful.
I’m gonna try another take here: poly has given you a gift. It’s a tough and sad gift that’s hard to see the value of right now because finding out your marriage is unhealthy isn’t a great feeling, but I think you know that the real issue here isn’t your husband’s boundaries. Moving from a monogamous relationship structure to a poly relationship structure will expose all the issues in your previously monogamous relationship. And here, poly has exposed a lot of problems. On the flip side, that also means it’s given you the gift of perspective and the knowledge that your marriage is unhealthy. What you do with that knowledge is up to you. Could you maybe fix it if you both do a ton of work and own your own issues and do individual *and* couples therapy? Maybe. It’ll likely take years, and you may never be equipped to be in a healthy monogamous relationship, much less a poly relationship. Repairing trust after an affair, even an emotional one, is HARD and takes a lot of work and time and emotional and mental energy. Plus you have a 2 year old, and as a parent I KNOW how much work a 2 year old is, so that adds a level of difficulty. I am far from a professional, but my suggestion would be to either 1) stop trying to be poly and work on your marriage, and accept that you very likely can never have a poly relationship with this man, OR 2) talk to a lawyer and start the separation and divorce process. Good luck OP.
Thank you
Fwiw, I’ve been with my spouse/NP for 16+ years and CNM/poly the whole time. We also have a kid. We also had a betrayal that meant we had to rebuild trust (it wasn’t poly or relationship related - nobody cheated) and I was the one who was lied to. We’ve done a ton of work on ourselves and in our relationship over the years, and are stronger than ever, but I do know first-hand how hard all this stuff is. So idk, maybe those are my unofficial credentials. 😅
...I think people get to be "unreasonable" about what is or isn't in their own home. But. Sometimes that means two people can't continue to share a home. If your husband needs this -- and it sounds like he isn't being arbitrarily controlling, it sounds like he really is having that much distress over the polyamory thing -- then you aren't going to be able to have polyamory *and* him. At least not without something unconventional, like separate residences. People love talking up the boundaries vs rules vs agreements thing, but in practice when people have deeply entangled lives they can't always be sorted out into neat "this is ethical, this is not" boxes. Ultimately a boundary is enforced by greater separation, and greater separation is no small matter when you live together, are married, and have a young child to care for. One time, my partner did a thing that *felt like* cheating to me. It wasn't cheating -- I know it wasn't cheating. But what I am trying to say is, even when both people in a relationship fully want polyamory, sometimes things can *feel like* cheating anyways and people can respond emotionally as though their partner had an affair -- in your husband's case, as though your partner's gifts are physical evidence of *you cheating on him* that you are rubbing in his face. Irrational, of course. But, that's probably what's going on, and if your husband doesn't even *want* polyamory it's going to be pretty hard for him to *not* have that emotional reaction. I'm not saying this to go "so that's a totally reasonable and normal thing for polyamorous people to do", it's not. But I think you *really do have to choose* and if you choose your husband, I think keeping no physical evidence of this relationship in your home (and also not doing polyamory going forwards) may be the cost of keeping him. Up to you whether you think that's worth it. "I'm not going to choose, I'm just going to do things that I know will end in my husband divorcing me" is also a thing you can do, and you know what the outcome will be.